221 | Why Can't We Do NOTHING? With Kielyn Simonson of OrgaNice - The Pro Organizer Studio Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hey, pro organizers.
It's your podcast host, Melissa.
I know it's been a while.
Listen, things have been crazy lately.
I have had some huge, huge clientprojects I've been working on and all
sorts of stuff going on in life andentrepreneurship and all the things, but
here I am and I am thrilled to introduceyou to one of my real life friends

(00:24):
who also happens to be an organizer.
And we are talking about something that,um, when I tell you when I'm recording
this message to you will be hilarious.
So it is currently, as I look atmy clock, 12:22 AM on Monday when
this is going up and I'm recordingthe little opening to this.

(00:44):
And, uh, the topic that I'm talking aboutwith my friend Kielyn, is all about.
Rest in our business and also why wefeel like we constantly have to be in
motion and doing things and not allowingourselves to, to take some of that rest.
So is this ironic?
A hundred percent It is, but um, Iam bringing my daughter home from

(01:05):
college for just a quick, quick, quicktrip to surprise her sister and her
flight is delayed and she doesn'tget home till two in the morning.
So I was like, well, I have two options.
I can either go to sleep and I can wakeup in the middle of the night, which
will mess up my sleep for the wholenight and, and make me groggy and all
the things, or I can just stay up and I'mgonna try to get a bunch of work done.

(01:28):
And that's what I chose.
So it was an active choice but itis going to be pretty hilarious
when you guys listen to whatmy conversation with Kielyn is.
But that is the tradeoff and that is life.
Sometimes it's, it's life as a momand as an entrepreneur for sure.
I am excited to introduceyou to my friend.
Kielyn Simonson of OrgaNice.

(01:49):
She is here in Minnesota with me.
She actually lives rightup the road from me.
And I think that our conversationwill make you feel less alone and we
are all going through it and um, andentrepreneurship and in our lives,
and I hope that you feel like youhave a friend who understands you.

(02:09):
That's what we are doing today.
Thanks for listening.
Have a great day organizers.

Melissa Klug (02:15):
All right.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
So I have a first timepodcast Guest with me.
My friend Kielyn is here.
Hello.
How are you?
Hi.
I'm so good.
Thank you.
You are a fellowMinneapolis based organizer.
You are my actual real life friend andI'm just happy to have you on the podcast.

(02:36):
Thank you.
Happy to be here.
It's an honor.
Well, we are going to get into, we'regonna do things a little backwards today.
Usually I start with like, tell meabout your business and all the things.
But I want to jump into what we wanted totalk about, because this was your idea.
It came out of a conversationthat we had a while ago.
And I think it's a really important topicbecause I think that you and I cannot be

(02:57):
the only people that have this problem.
No.
There's just no way.
Do you remember our original conversation?
Because I don't remember it, the context?

Kielyn Simonson (03:06):
Yeah.
I mean we, it was over the holidays and,you know, I think this is an even, it's
not even just professional organizers.
I think it's just.
Women in general, but we were talkingabout how when it's slower in our business
or when things are a little differentor when we have holiday time or when
we have any time that is not structuredor planned for us, that there is this

(03:29):
feeling of always needing to do something.
Like there's always somethingto check off your list.
And it's especially hard fororganizers and entrepreneurs
because there legitimately is alwayssomething that we can, there is

always something to do.

Yes.
So it's like this pressureconstantly to be busy.
And my husband does notsuffer this affliction.
It's
Oh, neither does mine.
I get angry sometimes because I'll belike, why is he sitting on the couch?
And I'm like, oh, he's actually doingit right and I'm doing it wrong.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And it's that busy brain that we havethat makes it so there's always something.

(04:07):
To be done.
And I don't know the answer, so I'mcoming on without an answer, but I
just think it's worth acknowledgingbecause I feel like we are we feel
like there's something wrong with us.
And I do legitimately think thereis, but it's like our culture and
there's a thousand different reasons.

Yeah.
It's all the things.
And I think too that there isalways the pressure that I think.
First of all, I blame phones foreverything, but I think it's a legitimate
place to, to lay blame because Ido think there, and I watch this in
my family too, and your you have adaughter who is younger and I don't

(04:48):
think you have this problem yet, but youwill, like, I see it with my husband.
We joke, we jokingly call my husband aniPad kid because his, like head's buried
in his phone and he is just looking attiktoks of dogs, you know, but right.
Like, and we'll say somethingto him and he will be like, huh.
And we'll be like, Hey iPadkid, we've been talking to
you for the last five minutes.

(05:09):
Right?
Yeah.
But then my kids too.
It's like, we'll bewatching a show together.
The whole family will be like, let'swatch blah, blah, blah, whatever.
And then everybody sits on thecouch and then my kids heads are
buried in their phone and they'relike half watching the show.
They're half watching.
Like, I think we just have developed this.
We constantly have to be multitasking.

Yeah.
This divided culture thing,

it's divided attention and it like infects
I think every part of our life.

Yeah, absolutely.
I actually was reading this bookcalled How to Not Lose Your Shit
On Your Kids or something to that.
Oh, I love

that.

It's a great title for a book.
It's actually a really good book.
But it was wild.
I mean, it's not saying anythingearth shattering, but the thing that.
Got me was she was talking about thatexact thing, that divided mentality
and the need to always multitask.
And she's like it, itraises your cortisol level.
It makes it harder for you toactually finish the things that
you're doing, and then you aremuch more likely to lose your shit.

(06:03):
Yeah.
Because you cannot keep ittogether when you're trying to
do all these different things.
And so I realized that mypropensity to get frustrated with
my family is the evening time.
And it's because I'mtrying to make dinner.
I'm talking to Aily, I'm trying to, myhusband will call on his way home from
work and I'm like, I can't talk right now.
I have nothing to say.
I'm working on dinner.

(06:24):
And so also you're on your way home.
We can have this conversationwhen you get home.
This is exactly what I say andI don't but yeah, so it's just.
So when I started to say, okay, Aily,I will, I'm gonna do this, you do
that, and then I'm gonna focus juston dinner for a minute and then we'll
talk about, you know, instead of tryingto be so productive that not only am

(06:44):
I doing one thing, I'm doing four.
Yes.
Poorly.

Yes.
So one of my favorite quotes isfrom Parks and Recreation, which
is one of my favorite shows.
Cool.
And yeah.
And it's Ron Swanson sayinglike, don't half ass two things.
You need to whole ass one thing.
And I think about that all thetime because I have always, like,
and a lot of my friends havealways praised me for like, oh my
gosh, you're the best multitasker.

(07:09):
Like, I don't even know how you do it.
Well, the age I'm at,I can't do it anymore.
And it's actually messedwith me a little bit.
Yeah.
Like I used to be able to do 12things at once pretty effectively,
and now I'm like, I don't evenremember why I walked to the kitchen.
Oh God, yes.
Was it to make dinner?
No, but I don't knowwhat I was doing there.

(07:31):
And and that divided attention though,is I think it's affecting all of us.
And as we age, we literallylose the capacity to do it.
So we're actually doing a verybad job at all of the things.

Right, right.
And, you know, as far as thecomponent of rest and being okay
with not being in constant motion,like organizing is cyclical.
We all know this.
But I think the problem with being abusiness owner on Instagram is that
you're also on Instagram seeing allthe things that other people are doing.

(08:04):
And we've talked about this,the echo chamber, or that

you think you're doing, or that you think that you're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.

And so you're sitting there and you're like,
okay, well my business is maybea little slower this week.
I could use my day in anumber of different ways.
Like I, my husband's alwayslike, enjoy your time.
Go outside, go dosomething, blah, blah, blah.
I can go walk the dog for along time and go for a hike.
Because that's productiveto the dog too, right?
Absolutely.

It's, yes,

I, so it's good for me, but it's good for him.
So I feel like it's adecent use of my time.
Yeah.
But in my head, like sittingdown and reading a book is
like not the right thing.
I have a really hard time just sittingdown and actually, even though that's
like technically, I guess, productive.
Yes.
It's really pleasurable for me.
But because there isn't that likefeeling of being extra productive,

(08:49):
I'm like, well, I should be doing myGoogle My Business and I should be
doing my, and I technically shouldbe doing my, you know what I mean?
There's always something,there's always something.

There's never going to be a time that you go, well, I've done it all.
I've gotten to the end of the list.
And I don't have, because likeyou said, there are always things
that can be getting our attention.
But I also find when I don't leavethe right time for recharging that I
burn out so completely that I go intowhat the internet calls functional

(09:19):
freeze, where I can't do anything.
I can't even do the reallyimportant things that I need to do.

Yeah.
And it's, and we just leavethe things that actually would
restore us to the end of the list.
And like weightlifting, for example.
Yes.
Like, there's a thousanddifferent things on my list Yeah.
That come before weightlifting, whichis really the one thing I should be
making sure I do every single day.

For sure.
It's funny that you say that.
So I joined a new gym recently and therehave been so many days where I was like,
okay, you have to go to the gym today.
This gym provides, I think thereare 10 different classes you
can take throughout the day.
Okay.
Oh, there's options from 5:00AM which is a hard pass for me.
Yeah.
Me either 6:00 AM which isalso pretty much a hard pass.
But the rest of the day there are alot of options for me to get there.

(10:04):
And I'm excellent at making excuses.
That's why I can't go to the gym.
Right.
But I'm like no.
I have so much work to do.
I have so much work to do.
But I also will spend the 45minutes that gym class was.
Doing useless things.
Totally.
And because I'm in that like freeze modeor whatever, uhhuh, so it's about the
pleasure of the thing that you're doing.
By the way, when I go to the gym, Ilove going to like same, I feel great.

(10:28):
Right.
But getting there, I can always findan excuse for like, well I should be
working on, you know, fill in list.

Right, right.
And you can always createmore to add to your list.
Like there's, if you wannaplay that mental game, there's
always gonna be something.

Yes.

Right.
Which I'm quite good at.
I'm like, you know whatI need is a project.
Yeah.

Like,

right, okay.
Yeah.
Because that free time is so terrifying.
It's like, it's something I've talkedabout in therapy actually, is this like,
need to always have something to do andto measure my worth and productivity.
And

yeah,

therapist was like, okay, I want you to do an
exercise where you just sit withyourself and don't do anything else.
Just sit with yourself for two minutes.
Ask me how many times I've done that.

So I'll tell you, I'm guessing that'll be the
longest two minutes, right?
That's gonna make an hour at thegym look like a walk in the park.
'cause my guess is two minutes of doingnothing uhhuh probably really hard.

Yes, it's really hard.

But I think it's a thing that we can practice, right?
Like, I'm not good at being like silentor like, I always have my headphones in.
Like my client, I'm at a client right nowand the other day she, the homeowner was
like, do you have two sets of AirPods?
I go, I sure do.

(11:53):
And she's like.
Why?
And I'm like, well, you know,it's like a charging thing.
And so like if I, if onebattery runs dead, then I have
the other ones ready to go.
And you could tell that she was like okay.
And I'm like, I always haveto have something in my ears.
Like I always, I'm always listeningto a podcast or an audio book
or a whatever, like I Right.
Stimulation hard for me to uhhuhjust be alone with my thoughts.

It really is.
It's scary.
And like, I was in Sedona last week andit was like, that's a restful place.
It's beautiful.

Sedona.
If you guys listen, if you've neverbeen to Sedona, Arizona, please go.
It's lovely.

It's literally a spiritual place.
It is so beautiful.
And in the Red Rocksthere's a ton of hiking.
And if you're a hikingperson, it's so good.
And there was, so we would

go, even if you're not a hiking person, go hiking there.
'cause it will make you so happy.

It's just so beautiful.
And so we would go on hikes in the morningand then one day I wanted to go to the
pool, so my husband offered to take herto the pool while I went for a hike.
'cause there were trail heads that werelike a half mile from our everywhere Yeah.
Motel.
It was so great.
And so I go on this on this hike andCharlie said, don't bring your AirPods.
Just don't bring your AirPods.
Just be, and you know, you canjust, you need to hear the nature.

(13:03):
It's part of the experience, blah.
Right.
I could not leave them home.

Yeah.
And you're like, don't tell me what to do.

Yeah.
I was like, but what ifI, but I have things.
I have things to listen to.
Yeah.
And I would turn it off.
For like two minutes.
Yeah.
And I'm like, ah, I gotta turn it back.
What is that?

It feels bad.
It real like, like it's an anxietything of, it feels weird not to have
that and that is actually distressing.
Yes, it is.
Both of us.
Because I think you and I are bothlike fairly well adjusted human beings.
Right, right.
And functional and all the things.
And that's why I know itcan't just be both of us.

(13:47):
Right?
No.
Like it, it's so much more.
And that being alone and just becauseI think it goes back to what we
started talking about, which is.
You always feel like you aresupposed to be doing something
like the hike is the something.
Right?
Right.
But for some reason wedon't think that is enough.
Yeah.
You should probably be listening to abusiness podcast while you do that hike.

(14:07):
Exactly.
I did have that exercise in.
And you also need to make surethat you're doing X, Y, and z

Right.
For your business.

Right.

And professional organizers tend to be pretty
perfectionistic because we're making ourclients' houses as perfect as we can.
You know, that's likein the job description.
And so I feel like it's, it even, itlends our personalities a little bit
more to that trouble of not, and youknow, and as a business owner there,

(14:37):
since there is always something to bedoing, there's always that guilt trip
of like, am I doing a disservice tomy business by not constantly being.
Active.

Yeah.

Am I just gonna fail?
Which is like that that feelingof that fear of failure is
like a really legit thing.
Yeah.

And I, you referenced earlier and you know, I have gone
on record on many places in manyoccasions talking about the Instagram.
So like, whether it's, or you know,just comparisonitis any of the
things that we've talked about.
I do think you're right that when youhave something in front of you that, and
again, we do this because we think itis for business, and then you're like,

(15:18):
you're looking at all these other peoplethat are doing things, which again, you
have no idea whether those are currentprojects four years ago projects.
Something that you didin a, you know, whatever.
You don't know anything aboutwhat that post actually is.
Right.
But it applies that pressure.
Yes.
Look what she's doing.
Look what she's doing,look what she's doing.
And then that leads toall of the other things.

Absolutely.
And if you're doing it full time,especially in the beginning, I remember
there was a fair amount of unstructuredtime because you know, if you don't have
time, clients filling every single hour.
So then it's like, okay, well whoa,if I'm working for someone else, going
to an office, my hours are spoken for.
I don't have unstructured time.
But when you have the house yourselfand a day, you know you have choices

(16:03):
around how you spend that time.
And that can be really hard.

We're gonna talk about the problem and then, you
know, the solution is in all of us.
Like it's going to be the hardwork of the sitting down and
doing nothing for two minutes.
But one book that I recommend to peopleis called Deep Work by Cal Newport.
So Cal Newport actually has severalbooks that I recommend to people
all the time, and one of them.

(16:29):
I forget, I'm gonna have to,I'll put the proper title of
the book in the show notes.
But he is the proponent ofdigital detoxing and like
really strict digital detoxing.
Yeah.
But his book, deep Work, I reallylove because it talks about how he has
structured himself so that he has theseperiods of what he calls deep work, where

(16:51):
nothing, you don't let anything interfere.
And then you just get in that modeand then you're done with the thing.
Right.
And then you can kind of release yourself.
And I think that's really theproblem of, you know, with, we were
talking about all the multitasking,everything else, like everything
we're doing 10 things at a time.
All of the things might not get done.
So then you feel overwhelmed and thenyou just keep working and all the things.

(17:13):
And so that concept ofdeep work is, let me.
Get into these several hour blocks ofwork with no distractions, and then I can
release myself to have this, you know,this other time that is unstructured.

Right.
And I think you were talking about thisin the Marie Kondo after you went to
Japan and we would, that idea of likealways needing to be busy and and you had
talked about being more conscientious ofyour own rest and your need to not over
schedule yourself and overburden yourself.
And I

talked about it and now I'm back in the,

it's because those habits are so ingrained.
Yeah.
And because we do think like our worthis tied up in how much we get done.
And I think like I, that it'sthat practice of like, okay, today
I'm gonna take that hour and I'mgoing to go on the walk and maybe
I'll just like listen to music.
Like, it's a step downfrom a podcast, right?

(18:10):
Like, I can a little bit beep, or evenI'll put in one AirPod instead of two.
But I do think it's worth it.
And especially we'remodeling for kids, right?
Like, I don't want Aily to growup and feel like she's not doing
anything worthwhile if she's notup and moving every single moment.
Yeah.

I'll tell you, I've seen it.
I don't, I'm ragging on my ownkids, but it's not just my kids.
It's every kid of their age.
But I watched them like lastyear I took a road trip with my
daughter and there were many hoursof, not a whole lot to do, right.
And Minnesota to Arizona.
It's a really long trip you guys.
But I would watch her, she'd be, I'dbe driving and she'd be scrolling
TikTok, and she'd be like, flip flip.

(18:48):
Like she'd watch a TikTok for twoseconds and be like, Nope nope.
And it was just.
Constant.
Yeah.
Like they, there are studies now aboutattention spans and things like that.
Yeah.
Col especially college students,like, they don't have the patience
to read very long passages of things.
Like Yeah.
Just, they're constantlydividing that attention.
And I just think too that, youknow, Instagram, all social

(19:12):
media has like, given that to us.
Right?
Absolutely.
Uhhuh.
And so then that, you know, nothaving anything or just slowing down.
And my Japan trip was agreat example of that.
I really, I got home from thattrip and I cannot, it was a
transformational trip for me.
And I said, I want to be different.
Yeah.
Really did.
Yeah.
And I do.

(19:33):
Yeah.
But it's really hard when you'renot in that spot, then like
regular life just happens again.
Yeah.
And then you're like, I'm responsible.
I'm the primary breadwinner for my family.
And I'm about to have two kidsin college and all those things.
And you're like, yeah.
All that like, stress is crushing Yeah.
To all of us.
It's,

it is.
And yeah.
And I was thinking, I sawthat in Sedona for Aily too.
She's got her tablet.
She really only gets it on travel.
But that kid, we got a Mustang,we got our car upgrade.
Oh, that's

so fun.

He's very cool.
So we're driving withthe top down to Sedona.
It could not be more beautiful.
And she's got her head downin her tablet like this.

Yeah.

It's like, oh.
You're missing it, and we would say,okay, we're driving however many
minutes now you can't have your tablet.
She goes, what am I supposed to do?
Right.
I feel you.
I get it.
Like I get it.
Then

also then you totally get, I don't know if you do this
but I totally do it with my kids.
Sometimes I'll be like, guesswhat happened when I grew up?
Yeah.
We, I, like, we drovefrom Ohio to Colorado.
On vacation.
There were no, like, we would Yeah.
We finally one year got Walkman, right?
And then my brother reminded me thatmy mom would only let us listen to it

(20:47):
for a certain amount of time beforeshe Oh, we've all been the same.
Yeah.
And and and I was like, oh yeah, wehad like car games, like bingo where
we would like, you know, find cars withcertain license plates or like, whatever.
And my kids are like, boy,that sounds horrendous.

And I'm like, well,

I'm just letting you know how it was when we grew up.

Exactly.
I remember that game.
And you just kept yourselfbusy, just like, yes.
Yeah, it's the blocking of the time too.
I think being mindful of your time.
That is really helpful.
And like, one thing that we've beendoing, so like our organizer dinner, we
the battle of trying to find a day thatworks for everyone is so much mental work.

(21:26):
That.

Yeah.
So what you're talking about is there arefour of us who get together for dinner.

Yeah.
And

yeah, finding that time is hard.

It's terrible.
So like finding that, okay,like I want this to happen every
month, I wanna be a part of it.
So let's find date that it alwayshappens on and whoever comes can come.
Yeah.
So that mental load of tryingto schedule isn't an extra
thing you have to deal with.
'cause everyone has so muchmental load and so many decisions
they're making every day.
That I think like part of one thing Iam doing well I feel like is thinking

(21:56):
through like what is important to meright now and the friendships that
are important to me right now andthe things that actually restore me.
And one of those is time with my friends.
One of those is time outside oneof moving my body in some way.
And it's usually movingmy body outside if I can.
And so I know that about myself.
I'm starting to try and listen alittle bit more deeply to my body.

(22:17):
And so I. Like, while we were inSedona, there was a day where we
were driving more 'cause you'regonna the Grand Canyon and coming
back and I was like, I have to move.
I have to move.
I haven't been, I'vebeen in the car so much.
I know I'll be happier.
I know I'll be a nicerparent if I can move.
And so I think that's part of it, isbeing more mindful of our time and
making sure that we fill in thosethings and maybe we have slots like.

(22:41):
I know there are slots of theweek that always work for me
to do something with friends.
And so I'm like, okay, well if it's eithera Tuesday or a Thursday evening, we can
do dinner or a walk Saturday morning.
I can do this or this.
And so then I just tryand fill those slots.
And if I get asked to do something onanother day, I have to think long and
hard about whether it's worth that.
Yeah.
Because I like to be goneevery single night either.

Yeah.
I have found for myself thatputting some boundaries around
my weekends have helped to Yeah.
And sometimes that this is going tosound terrible, but I really love
not leaving my house on a weekend.
No, it's nice.
And so even, and I think a lot ofpeople are like, oh, well, weekends
are friend time or whatever, and I'mlike, I actually don't like that.

(23:23):
I'm just gonna be honest.
Like I, when I have plans on aSaturday night, I am not happy.
Yeah.
And so I would rather say like, Hey,could we go out on Thursday night?
Like Thursday night would be a fun nightto go out, because then I also feel
like I look forward to things more.
I'm like, oh, after my workdayI have something fun, and then
tomorrow I'll have another workday.
Yeah.

(23:43):
And yesterday and Sunday, like yesterdayI made, yesterday was Sunday and I
worked really hard not to leave my bed.
Like, yeah.
And that, for me, that has,setting a little bit of those
boundaries has helped me.
But.
It doesn't solve the other problem oflike, but even though I'm not leaving bed,
by the way, I'm not just sitting in bed.
Yeah.
I'm doing different things.

(24:05):
So I still have the problem,but I'm trying to Yeah.
Set more of that.
Like, no, I don't haveto like work on emails.
I don't have to.
Whatever.
I just am going to read a book.
I took a bath yesterday.
Oh.
I, you know, do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like some of those kinds of things.
The restorative stuff.

Yeah.
And we, we usually do stuff as a familyon the weekends and so I try to not
schedule too many friend things onthe weekends too for that same reason.
I just don't like to be so overscheduledor it really stresses me out.

Yeah.

And I need time for my, like.
Habit of prepping for the week, whichtakes, yeah, basically a weekday
or a weekend day it feels like,which is another topic altogether.

It really is.
Well, I think too, and maybethis is me, but I doubt it.
I feel like if it happens to me, it'sprobably happening to a lot of people.
I will find too, like right now, I havea lot going on and there is a lot of
overwhelm and so it's easy to just golike, oh my gosh, I have so many things.
It's kinda like a client.
A client contacts us because they have somuch stuff they don't know where to start.

(25:07):
Right, right, right.
And they always use the same word.
It's overwhelmed and they alwaysgo, I don't know where to start.
I don't know how to do all the things.
Okay.
Well, I do that in my own.
Totally like administrative life, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the classic thing of like, and Isee this on the internet all the time.
People are like, that thing thatI put off for three months took
me 10 minutes to take care of.
Totally.
Yeah.
Like, I have to call my bank today.

(25:29):
Yeah.
Who wants to call their bank?
No one.
Yep.
Like, but I have to do it right?
Because there is a thing that isgoing on that I need to take care of.
And I have, I put it off all by the way.
They were open all weekend.
I could have got, I could have done it.
I just put it off and I'm like, thiswill take me three minutes when I'm done.
Right.
Right.
And then it's my list.
Yep.
Yep.
So I let that get in the way too, so it'snot just like all this other stuff we're

(25:51):
talking about, but I let that stress andanxiety overwhelm me over small tasks.
And I'm like, if I justset aside an hour Yeah.
To do the shit things

Yeah.
And take it away from all the

shit list.

Yeah.
From your like scrolling time.
Right.
Because you know you'rewasting that time elsewhere.
Do you know what I did?
I've taken

Instagram off my phone.

Good for you.
I have a limit on, I havea new app that I'm using.
Okay.
Like it does a hard line.
So after 30 minutes you putyour apps on that you want off.
It's called Opal.
Okay.
It's, there's paper, OPAL, and you setyour hard line limit of how long you
want to be able to be on collectively.
So it, you know, combines your time.

(26:34):
But I have read it Instagram, Facebook,and I don't have TikTok on my phone
right now for that exact reason.
But those, so those are thethree apps that I have blocked.
After 30 minutes, it just shuts 'em alldown and you can access them for eight
hours or 12, you know, till the next day.
And I'm like, oh, it gives meanxiety every single time it pops on.
And I'm like, oh man, I'min the middle of something.

(26:54):
Is it important?
Probably not.
But I am in the middle.
Yeah.
And so you have like a hard reset or likeit's a process to try and get back in.
Works for me.

Well, so I tried that.
So I didn't have I didn't have that.
I just used the old Apple settings.
Yeah.
The screen time.
Just use the Apple settings where ithas a limit and then it'll come up.
The problem with those is itwill say, okay, I've reset my
time, or it'll say, ignore limit,and then it'll give the choice.
Ignore for one minute, ignore for 15minutes, ignore for the rest of the day.

(27:24):
Yep.
And the number of times I clickedignore for the rest of the day.
Same.
So what you're hearing from this is,I have self-control problem, but I
feel like we all probably have it.

Oh.
I would also hit ignorefor the rest of the day.

That's why.
But if it's not on my phone, if I haveto say, okay, in order to put this back
on my phone, I have to go to the appstore, I have to re-add it to my phone.
That feels like a failure, right?
Yep.
And I'll, and so what I've been doingis I've actually started, I will put it
back on my phone, like for the weekend.
Oh, sure.
That's a good idea.

(27:55):
Then I'll then, because then it isenjoyable scrolling time and not Yeah.
I'm doing, I'm trying to do itmore mindfully, but for me, I
just know myself well enough toknow it just can't be on my phone.

Right.
And that's how I feel about TikTok.
'cause

I don't have TikTok.
I took TikTok long time ago 'cause I wasnot, I did not have enough self-control.

It's terrible.
It's such a, it's such a delightful.
Yeah.
Like who doesn't wanna sitthere and scroll for a half
hour and look at dog videos?
Me, I wanna know all theanimals I should bring home.

Yeah.
Llamas, goats, whatever.
Bring 'em home.
Yeah.

And it's it's really dangerous for my pocketbook as well.
Really.
Yeah.
Well,

and that, that's an important point because I do
wanna bring, because one of thethings that we haven't talked about
is like, how do we break this?
Like how can we just have.
Nothing, time or rest or whatever.
And I think the problem is thatour brains always go to, like, I
just said it myself, like I givemyself Instagram on the weekends.
Like as a reward, but here's whathappens with me, with Instagram.

(28:53):
I don't even have like the fomo.
I don't have a problem with the FOMOor Comparisonitis or any of that.
Yeah.
I really don't.
What I do is I'll go into reelsand they're always very enjoyable.
Right?
Yeah.
Like, enjoyable is TikTok,but still pretty good.
Yeah.
And I'll be going through and then, andI'll start the scrolling cycle and then
it'll be like, oh, well that's funny.
Oh, well that's a politicalthing that just made me mad.
And Oh, that's a recipe.

(29:14):
Oh, I forgot.
I'm not eating healthy enough.
Oh, this person is out.
And like, it's not FOMO of work stuff.
It's like.
Pressure of, I should begrowing my own vegetables.
Yeah.
I should.
Yeah.
I should be.
I should be.
I should be.
I should be.
I should be.
It actually, that relaxationthing that I have added back
onto my phone actually gives mepressure in other parts of my life.

Right.
It winds you up

a hundred percent.
And then it is, and by the way,there are documentaries and there
are scientific studies about this.
These apps are designed to be addicting.
Yeah.
And they are.
It's 'cause you're like, maybethe next one, maybe the next video
will be the one that calms my braindown and then I can shut it down.
No, it just is gonna keep feeding me.
Yeah.
Something else.
It's gonna make me feel like Iam an inadequate mom because I

(30:00):
didn't grow my own vegetables.

Totally.
Or you get targeted ads that then makeyou spend money on things you don't need.
And yes.
It's the, like, when I took themoff my phone and when I took
TikTok off, I actually savedmyself money because I wasn't Yes.
A hundred percent marketed to.
And so I, it's, there's an elementof like having to be a little
bit thoughtful about that thing.

(30:25):
So for sure.

Well, so one of the things, like kind of the original thing we
talked about is like we can't do nothing.
Like I I actually realized oneday I don't have any hobbies.
You know, what are your hobbies?
I'm like, I don't have a hobby.
Hobby.
Like, I'm not, I know myself well enough.
I'm not gonna learn how to knit uhhuh.
I'm not gonna be like I like doing Legos.

(30:47):
You can judge me if youwant, but I love Legos.
No, I love Legos.
But even just like, I'm not good atsaying, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna
go build a set of Legos because I go no.
You have all these other things.
You know, all the things thatare hanging over your head.
Why don't you go do those?
Right.
And so I need to be better aboutjust saying like, no, I'm allowed.
I. I'm allowed to have this time.

(31:08):
Right.
One of the things that hit me too,just about, like, I always have my
phone around, like we're recordingthis podcast, but I got it right here.
Right.
And I've done all the things.
I, I don't have notificationson my phone's been on silent.
Someone the other night was like,oh, I didn't wanna I had some a
thought, but I didn't wanna textyou in the middle of the night.
I'm like, ma'am, my phone'sbeen on silent since 2002.
Like, bug away.
I don't care.

(31:29):
But I don't have any chimes.
I don't have any of those things.
But still your phone is justalways here to go, you know,
there's something here, right?
Totally.
Yeah.
You know, there's something here.
Yeah.
And I had this moment where I go,so why do I feel that compulsion
to always have it around.
When I'm working or whatever,and I'm like, I don't ever have

(31:51):
that compulsion when I sleep.
Like I never wake up at threein the morning and go, oh my
gosh, I need to check my phoneto see if someone texted me.

Right.
Same.
I come asleep.

So why do I not allow myself to do that during the day?

Right.
Right.
It's, yeah.
And giving your brain just that one thing.
Like I, or I'm

with a client.
I am not, I'm very disciplinedwhen I'm with a client.
If I am working with a client, you'renot gonna be, I'm not checking my phone.
Right.
So mist and you know, I'llleave a session and I'll have
35 text messages or whatever.
Yeah.
But I did not have a compulsion tobe like, sorry, I need to stop the
session to go check those texts.
Yeah.
So why do I have that samecompulsion when I'm working on SEO?

Yeah.

Working on email or whatever.

Yeah.
Do you think that we're valuingthat time less because it's just
something you're doing for yourself?
Maybe.
I don't know.
I think because the things that Ihave the hardest time with are the
things that truly only benefit me.
Weightlifting

Yeah.

Only benefits me going on a hike without the dog.

Yeah.

Like there are times where I'm like, oh, I'd really like to
go somewhere and walk just by myself.
Like the dog barks all the time.
If we walk him at nighttime, thereare some nights where I just like
wanna get out and move a little bit.
Yeah.
But I like physicallycan't not bring the dog.
Yeah.
Because I, I need tohave it be productive.
Isn't that wild?

Yeah.

So it's just, we're all

our own problem is what?

Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah and honestly, like, I trulybelieve that the business owners
that build balance are thebetter business owners like you.
You are sounder, you're sounder minded.
You have a better sense of what'sworth your time and what isn't.
And you know, there'salways that stressor of.
Having something, but maybe we needto just be more thoughtful about

(33:45):
what is of value and what isn't.
And our time that, you know,are things that make us a good
business owner and that keep usrevitalized are just as important.

I see this a lot as an outsider, you know, when people are
talking about their businesses, I cansee it from the outside, same way as we
can see what our client's problems are.
Totally.
And I see this a lot of, and I fallinto this trap myself too, of basically
like I'm gonna work on something thatis not actually value added because

(34:16):
the thing that I need to work onthat's value added, it feels hard
or insurmountable, or I don't knowhow to do it, so all those things.
So I'll work on this easy thing tomake myself feel productive, but
I haven't actually done the thing.
Yes.
And so I think it's that task avoidanceor whatever word you wanna use for it.
That, you know, yes, you have donesomething, but was it revenue producing?

(34:37):
Is it important?
Because that's what, those arethe words that you just said.
Like is it even important?
Yeah.
The answer is sometimes it's not.
And then we still have that list ofthings over our head that's not allowing
us to just rest and quiet our brains.

Right.
And maybe we need to channel a littlebit of our clients where they're the
little bit of the fuck it energy,where they're like, oh, don't care.

Getting done.
Burn it down.
Yeah.
Which is always my favorite client thing.
Can you just burn it down?
I know I can.
I don't think you

actually want that, Janet.
Stop telling me to burn your house down.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a level of likebeing able to just be okay with chaos
that I absolutely cannot handle.
Yeah.
So it's interesting.
It's just something to think about.

What are some of the things, so you like to
walk and do things like that.
Do you have anything else that you dowhen you're in one of these cycles?

I love to read, but like just and on its own, it should be enough.
You know, reading for pleasure is

yeah.

One of my very favorite things to do.
And so I do that.
I think being with Ilie, playing withher and being actually present, playing
with her, playing games, doing crafts,cooking, you know, that kind of stuff.
Going on some sort of a littleadventure and you know, that
kind of thing is really fun.
But like, even last night we had justhad dinner and my husband's like,

(36:00):
okay, I'm gonna watch the rest ofthe basketball game and then I'll
come up and finish cleaning up.
I'll clean dinner.
'cause I made it.
And I said, well, shegoes, let's play Yahtzee.
And I said, okay, well, I'm justgonna finish cleaning up dinner.
She goes, dad just said he woulddo it when he came back up.

Yeah.

Let's gonna do it just to get it done.

Yeah,

I know.
She called me on it, which was great,and she said, no, let's just play now.
Dad said he would do it.
And I was like,

alright, okay.

Dad

did say he would do it, right?
Yeah, could love that.
Just reminds me, the great news is mymother-in-law doesn't know, she doesn't
know about podcasts, so I can say this.
And she'll never hear it, but onetime when my nephew was little so my
mother-in-law's always like, like, do youknow that line from the movie, A Christmas
story where the kid's, like, my mom hadn'thad a hot meal since 1965 or whatever.

(36:48):
Yeah.
And or 1945 and, so Tim's mom is a littlebit like that, where, you know, when the
whole family's over, she's constantlydoing things like, like dinner will be
on the table, ready to go, whatever.
And she'll be like, well, who needs this?
Who's, and we're like, Hey,no, just sit down with us.
Enjoy.
Just sit down.
But she constantly has to be in motion.
Right.
And she's doing it to serve people, right?

(37:09):
Like it comes from a, itcomes from a good place.
But tying it back to whatyour daughter said to you when
my nephew was very little.
You know, hi, Tim's mom wasdoing something to the kid and
he'd clean up whatever and Jacobwas like, no, I wanna play.
And she's like, well, I justhave to do one more thing.
I just have to do one more thing.
And he said he was really little.
And he goes, I don't think anyoneever taught grandma how to play.

(37:31):
Wow.
And I think about that, that kid is now.
27 years old, and Istill think about that.
I don't think anyone evertaught grandma how to play.
Yeah.
She's always like, cleaning somethingin the kitchen, cleaning house,
you know, I need to just throwin a load of laundry, whatever.
And so sometimes, like seeingit from the outside perspective

(37:52):
helps you remember like, oh yeah,I don't want to be that person.

Right, right.
I don't wanna model that behavior and Iwant, I don't want her to feel like she's
always the second person on my list.

Yeah.
You know?
Well, and I, same thing, modeling behavioris I don't want my kids to have that.
Like, I would like themto have enjoyment in life.
Right.
And they do.
I just want them to be able to,you know, I wanna teach them the
right lessons about, their mombeing an entrepreneur or whatever.

(38:24):
Totally.
Like my inability to just stop.
And sometimes the kidsdo have to say it to you.
Like my daughter said to meone time, like, why do you say
yes to everyone all the time?
And I was like, boy,that hurts a little bit.
Because True,

because you do, it's so hard to not help
when you get asked and yeah.
And it's just not, it justdoesn't need to be this way.
I feel like it's, you know, it's achoice to be perpetually in motion and.
I don't know.
I don't want, I, you know, I've readsomewhere something about like this
person's on their deathbed and theydon't think about, you know, all

(38:59):
the things that were on their list.
So where are our priorities out ofwhack and where can we put into,
you know, yes, this is our businessand it's super important and you
know, I am passionate about it.
I know there's alwayssomething that I can do for it.
And we're not curing cancer.
Correct.
We can take time off.
Yeah.
And enjoy the time off and bewith our family and be with

(39:22):
our friends and ourselves.

There was something in the Inspired Organizer Facebook group the
other day that I think really speaks tothis, and it's just a reminder for all
of us of, there was an organizer who wasgoing on vacation and she has a team,
and she's like, okay, people with teams,how do you prepare to be out of office?
And how many times a day do you check in?
And how many times, you know,like, and so I just said.

(39:45):
Please go enjoy vacation.
Right?
Like maybe unless you'regoing somewhere for six weeks.
You know, like if you're goingsomewhere for most people go
on vacation for a week, right?
If you're going somewhere for a week,there's not a whole lot in your business.
Yeah.
That can implode in a week, right?
You have someone on your team thatyou've designated to be in charge.
Mm-hmm.
Them be in charge.

(40:05):
Yeah.
Trust their judgment and say.
I'll deal with it when I get back.
But something about thatpost like really made me sad.
That this person is like, okay,give me the, give me all the tasks
I need to do while I'm on vacation.
Right, right.
That's another thing.
And that's a, I think that's moreof a uniquely American thing.
I think totally ERs in Europeand Australia are like, what the

(40:26):
hell are you even talking about?
Like, I think there are manyother parts of the world that do a
very good job of I'm on vacation.
Like, what?
What are you talking about?
Like, leave me alone.
Yeah.
We're bad at that.
I think, and it's been ingrained in us,I think for years and years of like,
no, you have to check in on vacation.
And I mean, I, we need to bebetter at going, no, I don't.

(40:50):
Yeah.
My business is not goingto implode in seven days.

Yes, exactly.
It's not, and I'm better about that now.
Like, I do know that there is thislike early on because when you're
starting out, you're like, oh yeah.
Everyone's my client.
I need to work with every single person,every inquiry that comes in, I've gotta
give it the attention it deserves at thismoment, or they'll go with someone else.
Yes.
And over time you're likenot everyone's my client.

(41:16):
And guess what?
They understand we have a life and ifthey ask me for a weekend, I can say no.
Like I don't have to have athousand different things.
You know, I don't have to accommodateevery insane request that I
get just to keep the business.

Right.

So

on the flip side, you can accept those when you feel like it, like

Right.
Occasionally.

I don't mind working a Saturday.

Yeah.
For the right reason when you haveto be resentful about it later.
Like Correct.
Yes.
Because I find that the ones where I'mlike, Ooh, that really doesn't fit.
I had a client ask for a 7:00 AMstart, that's not logistically
appropriate for me at all.
Like, I can't get to your house inSouth Minneapolis and have all of the
things for my family and myself done,and I will be resentful the whole time.

(41:59):
Yeah.
Yes, you can ask, but I can say no.

Yeah, you can ask and I can go that sounds terrible.

Yeah.
Sorry about

that.

My morning matters just as much as yours, you know?
Absolutely.

Yeah.
I have, I don't, I had a really goodone recently where I had a client who
had a, an emergency, which Carly myfriend, my good friend Carly Adams,
always had this phrase like, there is nosuch thing as an organizing emergency.
Right.
And she absolutely correct, right?
But you do have people that, youknow, maybe don't plan ahead, right?
Or you go right.
Whatever I move next week, right?

(42:31):
And I had a client in that situation.
It was like a move situation thatwas happening and their move got
moved up, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
It doesn't matter.
And so they were like, please, likewe're in a panic, like can you help us?
And I said.
Yes, I can help you, butyou have to be flexible.
I go, what is your flexibility?
Because I am going to have todo some things like work off

(42:54):
hours and that type of thing.
And they were like, oh mygosh, we're so flexible.
You can come.
Like, no problem.
Okay.
What that turned into is whenI actually tried to execute on
the, we're so flexible plan.
They're like, well, we reallyneed you to be out by four because
we like to start our eveningroutine and we need to do this.
And we, and I'm like, thesetwo things don't align.
Right.

(43:14):
So you can't have an emergency.
And then also tell me that I can onlywork between 12 and four or whatever.
So these are just all situations, andby the way, they're really hard even
for someone like you or I who havebeen in this business for a while.
Totally.
These are hard things, so especiallyif you're newer in your business,
it's hard to push back on people.
It's hard to have boundariesand it's hard to say no.

It is.

Sometimes you have to.

You do and you can build respect for yourself on the,
in the process and for your business.
And I think learning to have hardconversations is one of the hardest
things about being a business owner.
But I'm so much better at havingharder conversations with my clients
to the than I was when I started out.
It just is it, but it's alwayshard and it's always scary.

(43:59):
And it's like that moment whenyou go into every new project.
I don't know if this is just me, but everytime I go into a new project, either by
myself or with my team, I'm always like,holy shit, I don't know if we can do it.
Yeah.
Right.
And it works out.
It always works out.
Yeah.
But I always have that momentof like, what if this is the
one that doesn't work out?
What if I can't fix this person's house?

Yeah.

And it never happens.
No.
And you know, and they're gonnahave a different idea of what
perfection looks like to them.
What does success look like?

Yeah.

They're saying they're probably gonna be different.

That's another thing that was in our Facebook group last
week is there was someone who, shesubmitted some pictures and she's
like, I'm not good at estimating.
Like, what would you guys estimate?
I have to give a proposal to this client.
What would you think?
You know, it takes in this house.
And so I, because I'm the guyI'm sure people don't like it,
but it is literally my job.
I go why do you have to give a proposal?

(44:55):
Yeah.
Like client requesting that.
Yeah.
Like sometimes clients do,sometimes clients are like, I
really need you to give me kindof like a proposal or whatever.
But I was like, or are youputting this pressure on yourself?
Him an exact amount of time andthat proposal and all that stuff.
And she admitted like, ohno, I just thought I had to.
You don't, I mean like you can if youwant to, but I don't, no, I don't do that.

No.
I kind of will give a rough idea.
I'll be like, oh, I think, youknow, roughly a space a day.
Yeah.
But.
You know that, and that's how it's subjectto a lot of things, their decision making
capability, the density of this house.
I mean, there's a thousandthings that could go.
I

would say it's a math problem.
Totally.
It's the size of the house, times thenumber of things, times the speed of
decision making times like it, it's a mathproblem and you can't possibly solve that.
But it's like, I think the problem iswe put this pressure on ourselves of
like what we are supposed to be doing.
Yeah.
Whether that is giving a proposalwith an exact amount of hours
to a client, or, which, by theway, they're not even expecting.

(45:54):
Right.
We're sometimes doing things to ourselvesthat aren't required for the business
because we just decide they are.
I would say challenge those things,and I mean, I need to challenge
those conceptions in my own life too.

Yeah, I would agree entirely.
And that's, I appreciate that aboutthe group because sometimes you do
need someone that says, wait, why?
Why are you, why?

Why is that bothering you?
I said that to someone onone of our calls, the other
like, why is it bothering you?
Yeah.
Is it bothering and there'sa reason it's bothering you?
You're letting it bother youbecause it's helping you.
It's stopping you from thinking aboutharder things to think about, right?

Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It's like we ask our clients like, why?
Why?
You know, we do a lot of why's withour clients too, and when someone
calls about someone else's mess andit's like, well, does it bother the
person that actually lives in it?
Because if it doesn't, yes,we're wasting our time.

I had that conversation with a client one time who she was insisting
that her husband had to fold things.
She like, wanted to doKonMari very faithfully.
Oh, no.
She was insisting thather clearly very angry.
Her husband was very unhappy tobe involved in any of this, right?
Like, clearly.
And she was insisting that he hadto fold all of his shorts properly.
Oh, wow.
He's like, can I justthrow them in the bin?

(47:05):
And I finally was like, yes, you can.
And she looks at me like she's angryat me, that I didn't back her up,
which fine, I don't really care.
But I was like, no.
I said, well, let me ask you this.
I said, if you're gonna insist thathe has to do things away, and he's
saying, I don't need to do that.
That does, that's nota requirement for me.
I go.
If you insist on that, thenyou need to do it for him.

(47:26):
Yeah.
Like something that yourequire that he doesn't.
And I so said, so are you gonna dohis laundry and are you gonna fold it?
She goes, absolutely not.
I go, okay, well then, and let it go.
Move the way he wants to.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And my mom not worth it.
It's not, my mom gave me this marriageadvice when we first got married, and she
was like, what you do is you have to, whenyou're deciding who does what, you decide
who cares more about each thing becausethey are the person that should own it.
So like, does Charlie know how to cook?
Kind of, yeah.
Would we be eating a lot of craft macand cheese and processed hot dogs also?

(47:59):
Yes.
And so I care about nutrition and havingthings be balanced, so I do the cooking.
Yeah.
And you know, when he, when it wasearly on, he said, well, I will
clean up afterwards, but I, it mightnot be exactly how you wanna do it.
And so I had to let that go andjust know, okay, maybe I'm gonna
have to come back in and do thecountertops if he doesn't do them.
Something like that, you know?
So it's this level of.

(48:21):
Letting go of the things that matter.
Less to you.
Do I care that our lawn isnot mowed as often as I would
probably do it personally.
Yeah.
It bothers me.
But do it, does it botherme enough to take it on?
No.

In my house the answer to that is, does it bother me?
Yes.
And do I then do it myself also?
Yes.
Yeah.
Because I have said it bothers me.
Therefore, and then Igo, well, you know what?
It's actually enjoyable time for me.
It's good exercise.
Yeah.
I get a good sweat.
Yep.
The water looks the way I want it to.
Yeah.
I don't have to nag my husband aboutit, and he's gonna like everybody wins.

Yep.
Yep.
So that ownership thing really does help.
'cause it's like the things that youare upset about or that, but then you
have to be careful that not everythingis something you're upset about or that

Yeah.

You're weighed in on.

Exactly.
But all those thingsare a part of it, right?
Like, so everything that we're talkingabout is not only do we have our business,
but we also have our life are house.
Yeah.
I don't care if you have 12 kids,zero kids married, not married,
all of us have life stuff.
Yeah.
Stressful, right?
And so having all of that over yourhead too, just kind of adds to it.

(49:25):
So I just think in general, we have tolearn how to slow down and be kinder to
ourselves and it's easier said than done.

Yeah.

So

worth it.
Worth the attempt anyway.
Absolutely.

Well, we've been all over the place.
Yeah.
Can you tell us a little bit about yourbusiness and just you know, how long
you've been doing it, all those things.

I ha My business is OrgaNice professional organizing services.
It was named by my best friend who wasin marketing at Best Buy at the time.
Love it

by the way, in case you don't know, everybody
talks about Minnesota.
Nice.
Like it's a phrase that we use,so her business plays on that
name, which I've always loved.

Yeah, I like it.
And.
Part of my business is, you know, I make apoint of being kind and nonjudgmental with
my clients and we are fortunate that wehave worked with really wonderful people
for the vast majority of our clients.
And so it's easy becausethey're good people.
But I've been doing it for 60 years.
I've started out just side hustling.
I worked in senior living and I just,after I had my daughter, I was like, God,

(50:25):
I just want a little more control over myschedule and my ability to grow my income.
'cause you know, when you're workingfor someone else, you're limited and
there might be something, you know,you, there's a risk you take when
you're per, when you're a entrepreneur,but there's an unlimited potential,
which is something that I really like,and it gave me the schedule and the

(50:45):
structure that I needed to be presentwhen I needed to be for Aily, which is.
We only have one daughter.
We, she's, when she's gone andoutta the house, it's over.
And so I wanna be there.
So anyway yeah, but I've been,we, I have a team right now.
There's five part-time people that work,you know, different levels of part-time
and I. I put people on projects based ontheir interests and their geography and

(51:10):
kind of working on growing things as I go.
But it's been the best thing I everdid from my working life for sure.
I love it.
Yeah, it's great.

The other thing, the other pitch I'm gonna make to people,
and I make this a lot, but , reachout to some local organizers.
Oh, yes.
And like, I just love that I have anetwork of people that I can be like, I
don't have the bandwidth for this job.
But you know what?
I know you and I live close toeach other, so I'll be like.
Hey, I have this thing.
Is your team available?
Yeah.
It's so nice to have referral partnersthat you can trust like that you don't

(51:42):
have to worry about like, I'm justgiving this job to a random person.
What if they do a terrible job?
Like develop that network ofpeople because it's so nice and
such a relief when you have that.

It really is, and it's just, it's nice not to feel
super competitive with people thatare actually legitimately competitors.
Like we all know that we are goodin our businesses in different
ways and we offer different thingsto our clients, but I know that
all of us are good at what we do.
And so it's nice to have that friendshipin not have to worry so much about, you

(52:13):
know, it's very anti our culture to be.
It is.
Kind and helpful to eachother instead of competitive.

Well, and that's a really good point is especially
now, like I, one of the things wedidn't talk about is, you know, right
now there's just a lot going on.
Like things feel reallystressful, like in the world.
Right?
And so I think that reminding yourselfthat there is that goodness and
kind of, and it's, ive seen it inthe organizing industry in spades.
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
Literal, when I think about the peoplethat I have met in organizing the,

(52:43):
you know, hundreds if not thousands oforganizers and I'm like, there are like
a couple duds and that based on my oldcorporate life almost everyone was a dud.
Right?
Like numbers almost 100% dud.
Right?

Right.
Like yeah.
Organizers are a good group of people.
That's really good.
Found that to be true as well.
And I like knowing otherwomen entrepreneurs, even if
they're not just organizers.
'cause it's just, there's this levelof understanding that they have that.
Even men, it's not the same.
They don't get the emotional labor thatwe have and the difficulty of balance.

(53:15):
And so having other women that youcan trust and tell like your crazy
stories too, is really helpful.
I.

Absolutely.
It really is.
And yeah, I totally wanna give a pitch forif you live in an area where there are,
you know, a decent amount of organizersget a nice tribe because you know,
you and I and a couple of other peoplein our area have just developed this
lovely friendship and it's really great.
It truly is great to just gettogether and be like, you will
not believe what happened to you.
Yeah.
And then I'll be like, yeah, we will.

(53:43):
Yeah.
We absolutely will believe that ithappened to you today because anything
happened to me last week or whatever.
Yeah.

It's really restorative.
It just kind of fills your cup up ina way where, you know and you don't
have necessarily coworkers every day.
I mean, even if though I have a team,it's not like I see them every day
in the office and we talk, you know?
So it's not the same as workingfor someone where you have
that coworker relationship.
And so it fills my cup inthat way, which is nice.

Yeah.
Well, I will link all of your informationin our show notes, so if someone
wants to reach out and say, hi, Iknow you would really love it, and,
we will just try to hold each otheraccountable for a little bit more Rest.

Yeah.
Go easy on ourselves.

Yeah.
Also, I would say if someone outthere that's listening has like a
groundbreaking, like great idea Yeah.
That we have done, seriously, email me.
Hello.
At pro organizer studio.com.
Yeah.
I will totally talk about it ona future podcast of like, yeah.
Hey, you know, let's do a part two.
Yeah, absolutely.
Like, let me know if you have somethingthat has really magically worked for

(54:42):
you, because I'm on the hunt, so Totally.
Same thing.
Every once in a while I just go like,my solution is, I would like to go crawl
on the hole from crawling for a month.
And that's not really an option.
Yeah.
I wish.
Yeah.
Well, thank

you so much for being with us.
Yeah.
It's so wonderful.
Thank you

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221 | Why Can't We Do NOTHING? With Kielyn Simonson of OrgaNice

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}221 | Why Can't We Do NOTHING? With Kielyn Simonson of OrgaNice