222 | My Client Isn't Happy. Now What? | Missi McKown of Clear Spaces Organizing - The Pro Organizer Studio Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hey, pro organizers.
It's Melissa and we are backwith another friend of mine.
This is two weeks in a row that one ofmy in real life organizing friends from
here in the Twin Cities is with me,and this week it is my friend Missy.
So we have similar names and similarphilosophies on organizing and all

(00:21):
sorts of things, and we are going tobe talking about a key aspect of the
client experience of working with you.
As an organizer, and specifically we'retalking about one of the tougher things in
our business, which is what happens whena client is not satisfied, and we have
some great ideas for you and we have somestories and all sorts of things, and I

(00:45):
just absolutely love my conversation withher and I think that you will love it too.
Before we jump into it, I just wannalet you know if you have not heard about
our Organizing Essentials program, Iwould love to talk to you about it.
We are open for enrollmentuntil May 31st in that group.
And even if you are an organizerthat has been doing it for a while,

(01:07):
one of the things I love about thisgroup is we talk only about clients.
So this podcast really gets intothose clients that we work with
every day, and that is all ofwhat organizing essentials is.
We talk about how to organizewith clients, we talk about client
situations, sticky ones and goodones, and everything in between.
And I would love tohave you be part of it.

(01:28):
It's $249 for lifetime access and hitme up at hello@proorganizerstudio.com
if you would like more informationor hopefully you're on my list.
I emailed you about it this weekand you can check it out there too.
All right, here is my very dear friend,Missy McKown of Clear Spaces Organizing.

Melissa Klug (01:50):
All right.

Missi McKown (01:51):
Say that Henry's butt is here.

I love Henry's butt.
Henry's butt.
Is that's how we're gonna start.
We're gonna start this podcasttalking about your dog's butt.
That it's Okay.

Great.

In probably several podcast.

He is kind of a fixture.
It was reading.
I have a new class starting tomorrowand so I was doing all the homework
for it, and reading through it.
And one of the things was like,please remove your dogs from the room.
And I was like, Henry's been in everysingle one and he just does this.
But I'm sure like if you had a yippydog or one that desired attention, but.
He's like, I just sleep.

(02:26):
Thanks.

That's not Henry, my dog.
We had the dog across the street fora week and his name is also Henry.
But we call him Henri,the French gentleman.

We call him Henri too.
Oh.
Like when he, if he'sbeing naughty, I go, Henri.
Yes.
It just makes me

laugh.
That's so great.
So yeah.
Henry's butt's gonnabe here with us today.
My dear friend and colleague andfellow organizer, Missi McKown.
How are you?

I am well and sleepy, but good.

Listen, we're recording this on a Monday.
Neither Missi nor I arereally morning people.
Every morning, every single morningwhen I wake up, if Tim and I wake up
at the same time, one of the two ofus will be like, we hate morning time.
We don't like wake up time.
I like laying in bedtime.

It's my favorite time.
Yeah.

So we are recording this in the morning on a Monday, which are two
things slammed together that are so great.
So thank you for joining us andwe're talking about something that
you and I are both very enthusiasticand passionate about and it's
about the client experience.
And you are someone that I admire a lotbecause I think you provide like such

(03:40):
a good and cohesive client experience.
And you and I were just talkingas we do every single day, we
WhatsApp messages back and forthquite a few times a day on average.
And you were talking about a situationwith a client and you know, kind
of an unhappiness situation andyou're like, here's what I did.

(04:01):
It was incredibly simple and theclient is thrilled now, and we
both realize this is a podcast.
So that's what we're talkingabout today, making clients happy.

Yeah, it's true.
Especially when they're not happy.

Yeah.
And I think before we start, I willsay, I think you know, I've been in
a lot of different businesses andcustomers slash clients, whatever you
wanna call them, there are times thatthey're not going to be happy, right?
Like, think about you goingthrough your everyday life.
Yeah.
And like right now, I'mannoyed at my bank, right?
I have to go deal with the banklater today 'cause something

(04:33):
dumb is going on and I'm like,I'm already annoyed about it.
Right?
And I think the hard part is that wein our business, like we care so much
about our clients and I know I'm apeople pleaser, which is not everybody's
problem, but it is my particular problem.
And so when someone expressesthat, they're not super happy
about something, I take it.
So personally, whereas in my oldbusiness, I would've been like, you

(04:57):
know, in these big corporate environmentswhere there are tons of people, you're
like, well, there's a lot of blameto go around when it's your business.
You're like it's me.
Yes.
Correct.
And so it's easy to take it personally.
So I guess I just wanna startout by saying if nothing else
we want make you feel better.
That we all make mistakes.
Yes.
And that because we're our own, generally,we're solo owners of businesses.

(05:18):
Even if you have a team, you cantake it really personally, and we
want to let a little bit of that go.
Is that fair?

Yes, absolutely.
Yeah.
I think you're exactly rightbecause we created this, we want
everyone to have a good experience.
And so when someone's like, Hey, thiswasn't exactly what I was expecting.
Like I remember the first time I wasjust like knife through the heart.
You're like, oh no.
And now you're like, okay, wellnot everybody likes peanut butter.
So like, yeah, right.

(05:45):
Some people are just not going to behappy sometimes and sometimes there's
other things going on in their life thatare contributing to that, that have.
Zero to do with you.
Often that's the case.

And what we're going to talk mostly about today
is like how do we help those?
Like how do we make thosedissatisfactions into satisfactions?
But the one thing that I really wantto tell people is and we see this a
lot in our inspired organizer group,is people will say like, Hey, I had
this experience, this client texted meX, Y, Z. And it again, super easy to
just take it as I have failed entirely.

(06:16):
And in a lot of cases, especiallywith the work that we do, like you
said, there's a lot underneath that.
It could be that a spouse is frustrated.
It could be that people, youknow, money is an issue and
people are upset about that.
There are a million reasons as towhy a client could be dissatisfied.
So I don't want everyone to take it aslike, well, I might as well quit business

(06:37):
'cause I'm clearly terrible at it.
That's not it.
It might be a client problem, butthere might also be a solution that
you can use that makes them veryhappy in that and where everyone wins.

Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
That's what we're looking foris a win-win on both sides.

Right.
So, yeah.
Can you give us an example to kindof start out, I know you told me
beforehand, you're like, I wrotedown every, well, I'll let you tell,
like you said, you wrote down everytime a client has been frustrated.
Tell us about that.

Yeah.
And it's just anytime I've gottenany feedback of like, oh, this
was a bit of a surprise, sothey're not big monstrous things.
And it's not many, you know, it averagesout to about one a year, which I figure

one a year is pretty good,

right?
Like, that seems average.
Like, especially when you're talkingabout, I'm irritated at my bank
right now, I'm really irritatedwith my healthcare provider.
Like, you know, there's alwaysthings that that happen in life
that causes people to be unhappy.
And so it just goes to reasonthat at some point it would
be us as a service provider.
So, yeah.
Yeah.

Well, can you give us an example of one that you wrote down,
one of your seven, your one per year?

Sure.
One was really sweet and really dear.
We were brought in to do some bookorganizing in what I would call
just like, not to the level ofBeauty and the Beast Library, but
like significant amount of books.
And there were plenty that neededto still go on the bookshelves.
So they were running outta space.

(08:06):
So we had talked a lot aboutletting things go, talking about
the path to make those decisions.
And when it came time, as you mightimagine, there was some resistance there.
And so not everything was fitting.
And I got some feedback that thatone of the organizers on the team
was unfamiliar with the Dewey Decimalsystem and it was really frustrating

(08:28):
to the client and they felt like.
I shouldn't

laugh, but I'm just like, are there a lot of us that are experts
in the Dewey Decimal system if you didnot go to school for library science?
I'm just asking.

I mean, you know, like, this is the thing though.
It, I feel like every time someone givesme feedback, it is always an opportunity
to learn, to be like, oh my gosh, youhad the Dewey Decimal system in your head
of how this was going to be organized.
And we were thinking in termsof, to be honest, I never
googled the Dewey decimal system.
So maybe this is it, but likecategories, like Yeah, fiction,

(09:03):
like genre or nonfiction.
Yeah.
Right.
Like fiction or nonfiction.
Yeah.
And nonfic, you know,baseball or whatever it is.
Right.
So I received this informationin an email and I just thought,
my gosh, this is a phone call.
Like this is not a good way to engage.
And so I just picked up the phone, I'mGen X and you're Gen X, but you're,

(09:24):
I hate the phone and I love it.
So there's room for both of us.

I hate the phone.
I wish the phone didn'tfunction as a phone.
So, yes.

But I love it.
So I was like, let'sjust give a phone call.
And so I just called and Isaid, Hey, I got your email.
I would love to talk to youabout it and just hear what
happened from your perspective.
And so that gave the person an opportunityto repeat a lot of the things that
were in the email, but also it justgave them the chance to be heard.

(09:54):
Yeah.
I went into it with this mindset,like, this individual just wants to
be heard, just wants to be understood.
And so I let them share.
I asked follow up questions.
I got really curious.
I think that's important whenyou're trying to solve the problem.
Like, you know, what wouldmake this feel better?
And also validating.
Like, I understand that if youhad this expectation, we totally

(10:14):
missed the boat, that's on us.
And I'm so sorry I didn'task this question earlier.
And I'm happy to take theheat because it's my business.
I screwed up.
Right?
Like he's not happy.
So.
What ended up happening was Ijust asked, you know, what would
make you feel better about this?
And he said, well, I'dlike some money back.
And I said, amazing.

(10:36):
Do you have a number in mind?
And he said, well, I know that youhave to pay the team for being here.
And so I, you know, I don't wannalike rake you over the coals.
He's like, how about this?
And I said, that sounds great.
Can I send it to you in acheck or do you want Zelle?
Like how do you want it?
You know, and we figured that partout and he just stopped and he goes, I
gotta tell you, he goes, this was themost professionally handled complaint

(10:58):
that I've ever issued with anyonebefore, service provider or not.
He's like, you listen to me.
I felt very understood and he's like,and to be honest, I'm kind of blown away.
And he's like, you don't get thislevel of customer service anymore.
And I said, well, this is my business.
It's super important to me.
I do want you to have a good experience.
And we didn't deliver on that,so I'm willing to do whatever

(11:19):
we need to do to make it right.
And he was, you know,just not expecting that.
And so that's just an opportunityto, I mean, whatever your values
are about your business, if you canembrace that in the conflict resolution
part, I think that's important too.
For me it's just I do wanna help peopleand have integrity in how I do it.

(11:40):
And so that was how I handled it.
And I'm not saying everyonehas to do it this way.
This was just one way that worked for me.

If I remember correctly, the amount of money he
wanted wasn't even that big, right?
No.
It was quite insignificant.
Yeah.
And so then you're like, okay,you're expecting this guy to be
like, well, I want some money back.
Okay.
How much?
A thousand dollars?
No, a hundred.
Right?
Like it was, it, I mean, I don't rememberwhat the number was, but I do remember
it was small in comparison to thesize of the project you had with him.

(12:10):
And so then you're like, oh, if that'sall he wants, and then you did a lot of
other things, which I would argue areway more valuable, which is apologizing.
Sometimes people just want an apology.

A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Yeah.

And if you could just say, man, I am really sorry that happened.

Yeah.

Sometimes that's all they want.
And like you said, to be heard,so hear them out, hear their
complaint, and then say, man, I'mreally sorry we missed the boat.
Yep.
Sometimes that's all people want.

Yeah, absolutely.

Even if you don't think you're wrong, or even if you in fact
know that you are not wrong, like Iwould argue, I mean, if you really
wanted to, if you really wanna breakdown that situation you just gave
us, could you have asked, Hey, how doyou envision these being organized?
And they say, Dewey decimalsystem, and you go, pardon?
Like, okay, so that,that's a learning, right?

(13:04):
But I would argue thatrequest from a client is.
Quite unusual and perhapsout of line, right?
For you to psychically know that hewanted it by a Dewey decimal, the
client doesn't have to be right aboutthe thing they're complaining about.
Right?
You don't have to say, man,you're absolutely right.
In the future I'm gonna organizeeverything Dewey decimal.
But it is about just going like,yeah, we're really sorry we screwed

(13:28):
up even if you didn't really screw up.

Yeah.
Fair.
Yeah, that's true.
There are definitely some timeswhere I was like, that is not
quite how I remembered it going.
Right?
But like, again, I'm, I mean, we're inthe business of customer service, so
sometimes you have to just take some stuffand eat some things that are really not

(13:51):
yours, but to preserve the relationshipwith the client if it is worth preserving.

Yes.
Well, and I think too that in this ageof, I mean, something that I hear a lot
in our inspired organizer group is Idon't wanna get a bad review from someone.
I, and the mythical bad reviewis, it's like a unicorn.
It almost never actually happens, right?
Like those people usually don't, but youalso want to head off a someone if you

(14:20):
are gonna be defensive about it, or ifyou are going to like die on that hill,
it could end up hurting you more thenif you just said, I wanna admit that I'm
wrong, even if I don't think I am wrong.

Yeah, absolutely.

So in that particular case too, did you ever have a moment where
you're like, huh, this is ludicrous?
Or were you just confident thatI'm just gonna, whatever he says,
whatever he comes back with, like, I'mwilling to, I'm willing to take that.

I had a conversation, kind of coached myself before I got on the call
of like, what would I be willing to do?
And to be honest, for me Iwas just like, full refund,
like, you know, like whatever.
And I decided it would bea learning opportunity.
Like I just looked at it that way and thatfeedback is valuable, you know, whatever.

(15:12):
And so when he asked for like half ofthat, I was like, okay, sounds great.
You know, and yeah, I mean, ultimatelyI do want the client to be happy,
even if we are probably not goingto work on future projects together.
Like that's fine.
There's a lot of folks that are one anddone, or they have a specific need, so

yeah.
So let me ask you this too.
Did you, because I think that alot of times in cases like this, a
good solution for some people couldbe, could we come back and fix it?
Like Correct.
That is also something that you cando where I, you know, if you are
someone who's like, man, I reallywouldn't want to give money back.
The option you have is somethingthat is it's not free, but it

(15:55):
is sort of, it's your time.

Yeah.
Yes.
And I've definitely done that inthe beginning and and it's still
in the agreement to this day.
Like, if something's notright, we'll come and fix it.
Is the promise I'm making.
So, that has only actuallybeen requested one time.
Okay.
And I went and did it,you know, took two hours.

Right?
Yeah.
And that's one, I mean, there arecertainly times when that wouldn't work.
Like I do travel projects,you've done travel projects.
You know, sometimes it'snot quite that simple.
But that is sometimes the simplest,easiest solution if you just go, could I
come over to your house for an hour andI would love to fix it for you on me?
Yeah.

Yeah.
Absolutely.
And sometimes it's my own standardswhere I'm like, oh, I could, I was
envisioning this a little different way.
So there's been times where I've been ina client's house and they go, so, I'm so
curious because I think it looks great.
What are you coming back here to fix?
And I was like, I'm gonna show you.
I'm gonna take the before pictureand the after picture and show you.
And then they go, oh yeah, that does.

You see it, right?
Yeah.

So some of it's just my own idiosyncrasies where I'm
like, I have a standard, you know?

Well, and I also think too, that shows them that you care about their
project, even when that project is done.
Like I'm, if you're watchingthis on YouTube, I'm at a
client's house right now.
I'm helping them move from one houseto another while they are blissfully
on vacation, which I'm very jealous of.
. But I did something in herkids' room and she said Hey,

(17:26):
the girls have some feedback.
And I'm like, I love when kids havefeedback that's actually great, right?
Like, can you do thisa little differently?
Can you do this a little differently?
And I'm like, I wouldmuch rather know that.
Yeah.
To have people being like,man, she really messed it up.
I don't want the 11-year-old to belike, she messed up all my t-shirts.

Right, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We talk about that a lot.
Like happy to give, pleasegive us live feedback.
You know, you are the boss, so directus if we're doing something that you
don't like, we're asking a ton ofquestions on the front end and during,
to make sure that we're on the samepage as much as humanly possible
to try and get inside your brain.
And we're not mind readers.
So if we're veering adifferent direction, like just.

(18:04):
Knock us back.
Yeah,

absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We don't know everything.
I tell people all the time, like,I don't always have good ideas.
I have ideas, but they're not always good.

I say something really similar, I'm like, I'm just a little
idea generator here, so I'm justgonna keep going and you tell me.
Sounds great.
And if none of 'em do,I'll just keep going.
Like, we'll find more.
I have

other bad ideas I can share with you.
So

one of 'em is gonna stick and be right for how you use your space,
and that's what we're trying to land on.
Yeah.

Well, one thing too that I think about this conversation and I
said it I said it a couple minutes ago,but I'll tell you something that and I'm
pretty good at psychologizing myself,but when someone has, even with this
client who just the ni in the nicest waywas like, Hey, the girls have a couple
of things about their drawers, right?
Yeah.
And, but your immediate reaction is, huh?

(18:52):
I screwed up.
Sure.
And then my second reaction isgetting defensive about why I did it.
Well, the reason I did the draw likethat is 'cause blah, blah, blah.
Like I, I feel the need to explain myself.
Yeah.
My therapist actually told me once,she said it in the nicest way, she
goes, you have a high need for justice.
And I was like.
Oh yeah, it hurts.

(19:13):
Like I, I want people, like if, like in myold corporate life, people who didn't work
hard, I wanted them to get in trouble.
Right.
Like, or whatever.
And so then I sometimes rush tolet me explain why I did that.
And it's like, that is not necessary.
I've had to stuff down that instinctin myself and just like, no, you have

(19:35):
something that you're frustrated by.
I would like to fix it.

Right, right.
Yeah, no, that makes allthe sense in the world.
And sometimes what I will do formyself, my therapist and your
therapist would probably approve this.
I will write an email, not, you know,direct it at anybody, but just like
what I would like to say with your

anger points.
Yeah, well

with the defensiveness of like, you know, remember we talked about
this and you said that, and you know,that's why we went in this direction,
or you approved this or, whatever it is.
And.
It's not helpful in tryingto resolve the conflict.
So if it's helpful to your inner brainto just be like I know what I know

(20:16):
and I just need to get it out, great.
But the client is not theperson to share that with.

Yes, correct.
I do love the, it's kind of like theburn, you know, like you're gonna write
a note and then you're gonna burn it.
It's the electronic version of that.
Like, write out all youranger or talk about it.
Sometimes when you and I voicemessage each other sometimes
that's what it is for me is like,I just need to verbally vomit this.
And that's done being upsetabout it, but I gotta get it out.

(20:42):
That's at least what I, that's whathappens to me if I don't speak it out.
It like stays in my brain.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And so you're just processing.
You're just processing.
Yeah.

Yeah.
I would say too and you and I both haveenough years under our belt too, that.
A lot of times we know in this business,you could have everything lined
up, like everything you just said.
Like, do you remember what we agreed to?
Do you remember what wesaid we were gonna buy?
Do you remember what wesaid we were gonna do?
You could have all those things in place.
And then the client still goes like, oof.

(21:12):
But I didn't actually want that.
Like, they sometimes realize throughthis process what they thought they
wanted and what they got, which may aligndirectly isn't actually what they wanted.
Right.
More.

Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yep.
That happens too.

It, and so just understanding that this
process might be hard for them,

right?

So they're processing it in their own way and then that
might re, that might result inthem going like, oh, I know I said
this, but now I don't like that.
And that's again, notsomething that you did wrong.
It's not something like you need to changeyour whole process in your business.
You just have one thing thatthe client had a disconnect on.
That again, has nothing to do with you.

Absolutely.
And I think that goes back to toohow you've set up the relationship
on the front end of like, is it open?
Do they feel like they can come to you?
Like probably most of these peoplehad something to say because
they felt safe enough to do so.
I imagine there are some people that, havehad organizers and weren't happy with the
experience, but never felt comfortableto go back to them and be like, hi.

(22:17):
I would, I'm not really loving this.
You know,

we've gotten those clients, right?
You and I have both had experienceswhere we have gotten clients and they
have said, oh, I used another organizer.
And when you get that enough courage,you go, could you tell me what you
didn't enjoy about that experience?
Because I also don't wanna replicatewhatever bad experience they had, whether
it was objectively or subjectively bad.

(22:41):
Yeah.
I wanna replicate that experience.
Yeah.
But then you sometimes hear like,oh, yeah, that's a really legitimate
reason for you to be upset, right?
Yeah.

Stuff got thrown away that they Right.
Wanted and, you know, legitimatethings or all sorts of things.
And so then you're justhyper aware of that as you're
going into the new situation.
So,

yeah.
I do wanna say something beforeI forget it, which will happen.
I also want people to know that ifyou have one client that expresses,
you know, I don't like X, Y, Z, whatI see a lot of people do too is they
go, I gotta blow up my whole bus.
I gotta blow.
Okay, well this process doesn't workthen, or this, you know, I need to

(23:21):
totally change how I do consultations.
I need to change.
What I would also caution peopleis don't take one data point
and then extrapolate it as like,my whole business is messed up.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, I see that a lot where you cantake one thing and blow it up into
a way bigger thing it needs to be.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And use your data.
Like if majority of people are singingyour praises, the vast majority are
being like, this is life changing work.
You're doing it right.
There's always gonna be outliersor like we talked about different
circumstances going on in their lifewhere they're just like I'm unimpressed.
I had a experience once where itwas two partners living together and

(23:58):
one who was there was saying, oh mygosh, this is changing our marriage.
This is incredible work.
And then I got a phone call from theother one who was not there at all
and was like, yeah we're not gonnahave you come back for the last day.
And I was like, oh, okay.
No problem.
I'll just refund yourmoney for the last day.
We didn't go so no worries.

(24:18):
But it felt bad for the onewho had been there and we had
been working with directly.
'cause I was like I imagine they meantit when they said this was saving their
marriage and it felt really beneficial.
But.
Yeah, I don't know.
You know, you can't make everyone happy.

And that's one that you can't win, right?
Because you're not in that, you're notin that marriage, you're not in that
relationship, you're not in that house.
There could be a million thingsgoing on there that you can't help.
But I think you just said somethingimportant, which is, this is another
thing that I see a lot that I justwanna encourage people to be open
to, really helping with a clientdissatisfaction, even if it goes

(24:56):
against some of your policies, rules,procedures, that type of thing.
So what you just said is great.
I'll refund you for that final day.
Yeah, I think there are a lot of people,and by the way, I'm pro boundaries,
I'm pro rules, I'm pro, all that stuff.
I want people to getpaid for their business.
But I do think there are some timeswhere people are like, well, I
require 100% payment and there areno refunds under any circumstances,

(25:18):
and I'm gonna die on this hill.
And sometimes that's not theright move in my opinion.

It just totally depends Yeah.
On the person, because you're right.
For some people thatprotects them in a way.
I very much treat peopleas I want to be treated.
If I were in that situation and I hadprepaid for a certain amount of days
and then we're like, oh gosh, I'm notreally getting what I'm expecting here.

(25:46):
I would hope that person would belike, you know what, we'll just charge
you for the time that we've alreadydone the rest refund coming your way.
That's what I would want.
And so, that's how I start a lotof like these conversations where
I'm like coaching myself before Icall somebody or whatever it is.
It's like, what would Iwant outta this situation?
And then I try and give that.

Yeah I think that there is a time to stand on boundaries and
rules and procedures, and I thinkit's great to have those things.
I think there are also times that youjust know the right thing to do is just.
Say No problem, I'll getthat refund right out to you.
Yeah.
And it's not worth the fight.

(26:27):
I think it's also, I just feellike energetically, like, do
you wanna go to a house wheresomeone doesn't want you there?
I don't, yeah.
No.
So I would rather open up that dayto someone that really loves me and
thinks I'm spectacularly fabulous.
Yeah.
And to go somewhere where you'regonna get hostile reception.

(26:47):
I don't want that.

Yeah.
No, I agree completely.

Yeah.
You have another example on your list ofa dissatisfaction that you turned around?

I mean, turned around is a little loosey goosey.
Okay.
Because in my opinion, if thereis a situation where you can turn
around the experience that the personis having, that is a win for me.
Like a negative experienceinto a positive one.
And most of the time.
It can be done with money.
And that sounds really silly andprivileged to be able to say, but

(27:20):
I'm just giving their own money back.
Like Yeah.

Right.
It really wasn't your money.
Right?
Yeah.
Like there's a difference between they'reasking for something and it, like you were
just holding onto it for a while, right?

Sure.
And there are times where like,you know, we did all the work,
they're still unhappy and you know,gosh, we're doing the best we can.
It was a long distance one.
They wanted to change up thedesign of the Elfa system.
So the Container Store shippedthem some products and we, before
we left, here's what's theirshipping, here's how to attach it.

(27:53):
You see, it looks just like this one here.
Like, couldn't be easier.
I'm gonna send you the link forthe YouTube video, how to do it.
Yep.
I'll onboard.
And then once it arrived, they werelike, you charged me extra for these
pieces that are worthless, you know?
And I'm just like, oh, shoot.
Like I wonder if they forgot.
And so I replied and was just like,here's the, here's, this was earlier
when I was replying via email.

(28:14):
Here's the YouTube video again.
Here's the information.
I want this to work for you becauseyou wanted this extra storage.
Here's how to install it.
And you know, for the inconvenienceof your time, here's a refund of
X, Y, and Z. And, after this longemail I'd received from them and
an equally ish lengthier one back.
'cause it was like, here's all theinformation on the Elfa system, you know?

(28:36):
I got back almost immediately thankyou so much with like seven exclamation
points and I was like, we're good.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
So sometimes just a little cash helpedsweeten the deal that was very early in
business and for years I said that was thebest a hundred dollars I've ever spent.
You know,

and again, not a ton of money, right?
Like, no.
And it's not to say we don'twanna minimize, like a hundred
dollars is still a hundred dollars.
Like a hundred dollars youdon't have is a hundred dollars.
You don't have.
Right.
But sure.
But

over, over the course of that product, that
a hundred dollars was earned.
So

it's such a bigger, like there are bigger fish to fry.
And I think the, like thephrase win the battle, lose the
war is an important one too.
Like you just, every once in a while,that little thing could actually blow
up into something that is much better.
If you just give that little bit andit really isn't gonna hurt that much.

Yeah, and I also just try and take the perspective
of they've got a lot of thingsgoing on in their life, right?
No one has ever contactedme for organizing and been
like, I'm doing pretty great.
You know, like they've needed anextra set of hands for a reason and
sometimes there's 17 things happening.
And so I try to have a lot ofcompassion for all that they're
going through too, and not expectingthem to remember everything.

(29:51):
I have a really weird brain.
I was really like extremely goodat memory as a kid and still am
much to my husband's chagrin 'causeI crush him in it all the time.
But like, I, like you could callme a year from now and be like, Hey
Missi, where did you put this X, Y, Z?
And I'd be like, okay,go into your office,

Corner and it's on the bottom shelf and it's in the bi.

Yeah, exactly.
On the left hand side.
And.
I don't know, my brainjust works that way.
But all of this to say, I don'texpect everybody else's to, and I
don't wanna be that person who'slike, actually you said because like,
that's not good for business, right?
So it's like, happy to share thisinformation again, happy to get you what
you need, like want you to be successfulwith this space that we've helped you

(30:32):
create that was in your brain and now it'sin real life, so let's help you use it.
So.

I had a client recently who was it, there, there was fault
on both sides, let's say, but shewas frustrated with me that I had
taken a while to schedule her.
And she, she was someone who wantedlike, really regular cadence.
And at that time in my business Icouldn't, I just couldn't do that.
Yeah.
Like it our needs were not aligned.

(30:59):
You know, my ability to provideher what she needed was not
in my in my ability and.
So I, she actually I, everybodydoes their business differently.
Don't come at me.
I invoice after a project.
I know there are peoplewho think I'm ludicrous.
It works for me.
Everybody gets to do what works for them.
But she had an invoice.
She had paid it already, andI just said, you know what?

(31:22):
I'm gonna refund her.
One of her sessions it, she did threehour sessions and I'm like, I'm just gonna
send her $300 and just say, you know what?
I decided to comp your lastsession because I'm really
sorry that I disappointed you.
And I'm sorry because I know this was aclient who organizing is really hard for
her and she has to it's like somethingshe has to psych herself up for.

(31:44):
And I was like, you know what?
I just feel like I didn't deliverher the experience she needed.
And it, to me, it wasn't worth it.
And I, so I said, you know, Ikind of, I wanna do this for you.
And she.
Immediately texted backand she's like, no.
I don't expect that.
Like you did the work.
You are owed the money.
And I was just like,Nope, I'm doing it anyway.
Even though she came backwith that, 'cause it just felt

(32:06):
like the right thing to do.
And sometimes you just haveto go with that gut of it just
feels like the right thing to do.

Yeah, absolutely.
I've also done something similartoo and then sometimes I throw in
a little extra than what I say I amdoing and then they lose their minds,

right?
Yes.
In the

best way possible.
And then you have a client for life.
You know, like it's just amatter of doing the right thing.

I also think too, like we obviously like a lot of the
examples that we've talked aboutalready are involve money of some kind.
But I will also say there aresometimes that just a very simple,
like we said earlier, just having theconversation is one thing, like let
the client get it off their chest.
The other thing too issometimes a handwritten note.
Like don't forget analog methodsof doing things like, do you know

(32:51):
that client really loves wine?
Go drop a bottle of wine with anice note saying, I'm really sorry.
I hope we can serve you better next time.
Like whatever some of those things, itdoesn't have to involve a refund either.

Oh, definitely.
Is this a good time for youto share your NERF gun story?
Oh yeah, sure.

Well, so one of the things that we wanted to talk about too, it's
not just a client dissatisfaction,it's taking something that you are
just trying to make the client happy.
In whatever way, even ifit's not an actual problem.
So I, I just call it above and beyondstuff, and these are small things,

(33:30):
but I just had a very recent example.
It's this house that I'm inright now and I'm packing them.
They are moving from one house to another.
So I was packing them and we had apacking plan and there were things
that we were not touching becausethey will still need them in the
interim, all that kind of thing.
But everything else, we were free to pack.
So we had, I had ground rulesestablished with a client.

(33:51):
We realized and I knew thiswas going to happen, right?
There were a few things that we missedor a few things she forgot to tell
me, needed to be kind of set aside.
And so the example is, and this is whatI call, just call above and beyond her
kid has, when they return from springbreak, the first day after spring
break is Nerf Wars at their school.

(34:14):
Okay.
And she's like, do you knowwhere the Nerf guns are?
And I'm like.
Indeed I do not because Nerf guns were inlike three different spots in the house.
So then I was like, okay, realisticallyfor me to find the Nerf guns, I will
have to look through three different setsof boxes in three different locations.
And which I was more thanwilling to do, right?

(34:35):
But she said, oh my gosh,don't worry about it.
She goes, I told him there have got to bepeople that you can borrow Nerf guns from.
Like, to be clear, myclient was not upset, right?
The teenager was upset, but the client,the person who's paying me didn't care.
And she's like, he can find himsomewhere else and I can't explain
it, but just somewhere midway throughthe day I was like, nah, I'm gonna

(34:57):
solve this problem and I'm not gonnasolve the problem by opening all
the boxes I painstakingly packed.
'cause screw that.
Like I'm not doing that.
And so I just said I'm, I was out forlunch and I go, I'm just going to Target.
And I spent $44 and 25 cents.
Home By Eleven, spent $44and 25 cents on Nerf guns.

(35:19):
If I ever get audited, I will use thisas my proof that yes, I bought Nerf guns,
but I swear it was for a good reason.
And I just, all I did was, first of all,I've never bought a Nerf gun in my life.
I had daughters who never used Nerf guns.
And so I'm like, well,this is kind of fun.
So I'm in the Nerf gun aisleand I was like, well, that one
looks fun and that one looks fun.
Bring them home.

(35:39):
And I set them up in the boys' room andI just, I tell the client later, I was
like, I solved the Nerf gun problem.
Don't ask me any questions.
And she's like, okay.
And later that day, after Iwas gone, she sends me a text
in all caps, Nerf guns, what?
And exclamation points and she sendsme a picture of her kids and she goes,

(36:04):
there is screaming coming from the room.
They're so happy right now.
Like you bought nicer onesthan they had originally.
Like again, $44 and 25 cents.
They were thrilled.
And she's like, that was really nice.
Like, thank you so much for doing that.
You didn't have to.
So no, I didn't have to.
I'm not charging her for it.
That is not going to appear onany invoice that I send her.

(36:27):
It's a cost that I'm eating.
And it was worth every single penny.

Absolutely.
Because now you are like lockedin with that client for life.
They think you walk on water now andyou're brilliant and you're generous.
You know, like those small things are soworth it and they don't have to be big.

I, it wasn't big and I didn't argue about like, well, you told
me that you could pack the Nerf guns andlike, you didn't tell me that we didn't.
Like, it's not worth it because Right.
There's no reason in it just waslike the tiniest little thing
that created such a satisfaction

and it solved the problem way faster than you unpacking
a million boxes and being like,are they in this room so much

faster?
Yeah.
By the way, it also helped me, youknow why I don't wanna go through boxes
I've already packed until Exactly.
I come to their new house to unpack them.
I don't wanna pack them andthen unpack them and then repack
them to unpack them again.
Not worth it.

Totally.
Yep.
Yeah.

So it's the, and these are the little things
that I just want to tell you.
Concentrating the, onthem in our business.
And I think it would've been easy forme to be like, it's not my problem.
She already told me that he canget 'em from somewhere else.
He, whatever.
I just knew that wasn'thow I wanted to handle it.

Right.
Because that's not how youwanna handle your business.
And that's the key,like you get to decide.
Right.
But how fun is it to getthat text and just be like,

it was really.
And by the way, these are teenage boys.
They're not like interactingwith someone like a random
stranger who's in their house.
And like when I saw the kids the nextday, they're like, thank you very much.
Like it was the most workyou've ever said to me.
Right?
Like, and so then you just golike, no, that was a good thing.
And by the way, that it's like thatold Seinfeld episode of you can't
really do a charitable work 'causeyou get something out of it too.

(38:09):
I mean, that's kind of the same thing.
Like I did something nice, butlike I got validation in return,
which is my love language.
So, you know.
But again, everybody won that day.

Yeah.
Yeah.
It wasn't that Seinfeld episode.
There's no such thingas an altruistic act.

Correct.
Yes.
I love it.
I love it so much.
And I think that's true.
When I get, when I have a client thatsends me a, like, this was life changing
or this is so amazing, and this clientis an example, the other day I texted
her Hey, I, I owe you a diet Dr. Pepper.
'cause I had taken one out of theirfridge and she goes, well, you're saving
my sanity, so can we just call it even?

(38:44):
And I'm like, yes.
That text kept me going for days.

Right.
I know.
It's so great.
I, people are lovely andreally are, and it's so easy.
And so when you're talking about this,like going above and beyond, there's this
element of surprise and delight, right?
Yes.
Like she was not expecting it.
So you surprised her and it delighted her.
Delighted the kids.
That's elevating the customer experience.

Yes.
And that is, I think thebiggest point of this.
This is not even just, this isabout the client experience and
thinking about the long game.
Okay.
And we don't do these things becausewe're expecting something in return,
but the dividends, it can pay.
Like when I think about it and I go, well,I think that she will then say kind things

(39:31):
to me, to her other mom friends and toother people in her very vast network.
And so, because of that surprise anddelight, that going above and beyond that
is something that cements my reputationas a business owner in a positive way.
And I think that's the other thing too,that we're talking about all of these

(39:51):
things, you can take a dissatisfactionand turn it into a satisfaction.
Sometimes very easily.
And you can get suchdividends out of that.
It's a big deal.

Totally.
Yeah I'm just remembering one ofmy very early on clients I remember
she was talking about her kids'love of some really sugary cereal
that she just couldn't stand.
And she's like, 'causewe're doing a pantry, right?
And she's like, so sometimes that'shere or whatever, but not often.
'cause I hate this one.
And I was like, okay, now her kidswere young, you know, and they're

(40:21):
not gonna be telling their friendsabout an organizer or whatever, right?
But I couldn't help it when I happenedto go to the store the next time and saw
that cereal sitting there, I was like,well, I know who would like this, right?
And so Clear Spaces bought that cereal.
It's cereal guys.
Like, it was like, Idon't know, five bucks.
You know, five bucks, right.
And, brought it back.
This guy Henry's bug back, sorry,we just had to comment on the dog.

(40:44):
Brought it back and wrapped it upand left it on the table for them
with a little note, handwrittennote analog you were saying.
Right.
And while they were on vacation and shewas blown away by it, just blown away.
Five years later we get a call back todo like six more spaces in the house.
And I'm not saying it'sbecause of the cereal.
I have no idea.
I'm sure she appreciated the other areastoo, but it's just like small things

(41:08):
you can do to surprise and delight.
I remember that.
Yeah.
There's a whole book about that.
Do you rem have you ever read,I know you're a big reader.
Unreasonable hospitality.
I have not.
You're gonna love it.
Okay.
So without the service industry,technically it's all about restaurant
service, so you're gonna lovethat too, because it's like about
chasing Michelin stars and stuff.

(41:29):
But in there it talks about this levelof surprise and delight and and so they,
they call it unreasonable hospitality,but it translates a lot to what we
do as service providers as well.
So.
Just something for your brain.
Okay.

That's a good

one.
But

I think just thinking about customer ser, we say the
phrase customer service can meana lot of different things, right?
But if you really think about it, it isthe whole experience of working with you.
And the whole experience of whatare you going to provide and you're
not just providing a service.
And when you think about it, theservice we provide is so personal and it

(42:09):
involves, I don't care whether you getinto the deep psychology like you and
I personally enjoy, or whether you're aperson who is like, don't I want, don't
wanna touch that with a 10 foot pole.
You are still providing a reallyhigh end client experience.

Right?

And by the way, that high-end client experience can be
in a home that is not high-end.
It has nothing to do with that,but it is high end experience
that you are giving people.
And it doesn't have tobe a white glove service.
It doesn't have to be like everyhouse you're in has designer bags.
It's about giving that reallycohesive customer experience to
the people that you work with.

Yeah.
And when we're talking about goingabove and beyond, it is just noticing
what's important to your client likeand what kind of things they value
or what kind of things they use.
I mean, it could be as simple as acoffee like, or a candle in a scent
that they enjoy, or one that's namedafter the area that they live in,
that they talk about incessantly.

(43:08):
You know, these small things where they'rejust like, I can't believe you did that.
And yeah.
Anyway, I love

that.
But that involves payingattention too, so that involves
paying attention to the client.
And this is a, this may sound like a sillyexample, but I have a client who does
not drink, and she was just saying, thisis really minor, but she bought a house.
She bought and sold a house, andher realtor gave her, this is
pretty standard for realtor, butgave her a bottle of champagne.

(43:36):
And she's like, I don't drink.
So this gift is.
It feels like I got phoned in from someonethat I just gave like a lot of money to.
Right.
But that was a really good exampleof you sh because we're in people's
like very personal areas, you doend up learning a lot about people.

(43:56):
Yeah.
And so you just like the teensiestlittle thing, but showing that
you have paid attention reallyis that above and beyond thing?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Without being creepy though,
So on this like surprise anddelight thing at the how to summit.

(44:18):
There, the best session thatI went to was these people.

Is it Mallory?
The Movers?

Yes.

Mallory.
And what's her

husband's name?

I don't know, but I've heard so many people talk about it
and I've never heard them speak thatlike even her name stuck in my head.

Brandon Mallory and hello.
Happy home.
Okay, I got it.
Okay.
So they were talking abouttheir concierge move service.
One of the examples that he gave of, wetry to pay attention to like the things
that we're moving and the things inthe house because then it helps us get
a good gift for the client at the end.
And one example that he gave washe was doing a client sort of like

(44:54):
I'm doing client went on vacation.
While they were doing this huge moveand he said that they ended up finding
out where the client was going onvacation, called the front desk, made
sure they had like a spa day, or therewas something, some example he gave of
like, they gave them a very expensivegift, but the client was blown away that

(45:16):
they had been that thoughtful and thatresourceful and that, you know, they
really thought about them while they werealso doing all this work for them already.
So, people at the How To summit thatwere in my session are probably like,
you missed 12 points of the story.
Undoubtedly I did.
But that they really do that.
Like they said, that's a part oftheir core principles basically,
of like, we really wanna deliver anamazing customer experience to them.

(45:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it doesn't have to be likesomething you see in their home.
It could be, you know, maybe it's abusy mom who's exhausted and you go
like, Hey, I'm gonna give you a massage.
Or you actually give it to them.
Yeah, that would be weird, but like.
Give a massage gift card, whatever.

Yeah.
Something

that you think would be good for them.

Absolutely.

Oh, one thing that I wanted to talk about.
Is sometimes a client dissatisfaction.
And this is based on some things that wesee occasionally in our inspired organizer
group is the reason I thought about this.
But sometimes a client dissatisfactionis due to miscommunication.
And specifically invoicingis where I see this a lot.

(46:23):
I have seen in the inspired organizergroups, this has not happened to me
directly, but I've seen in the groupwhere people are like, I sent the invoice
and they're really mad because theydidn't know that product was gonna be
this much money or something like that.
And so one of the kind of caveats Iwas gonna give you is some of these
classic dissatisfactions, thereare ways that you can and should

(46:47):
head that off at the beginning.
And I think that's a miscommunicationpiece of sometimes the client's like,
yeah, I would love some bins andbaskets, but they have no concept that
your idea of bins and baskets might be.
TA $2,500 line item that they are thencompletely unprepared for on the invoice.

For sure.
Yeah.
So having that conversation upfront, like, I have a client right
now who, she's on vacation and she'stexting me, Hey we have these white
bins and she shows me a picture andthey're from IKEA for the pantry.
And she's like, but I reallywant them to be clear.
I was like, amazing.
Do you want them to be clear, opaque,like this link to the container
store where they're like $6 or do youwant them to be clear acrylic like

(47:27):
this link where it's you know, $25

five or whatever.
Yeah.

Right.
And then we're all on the same page.
Everyone sees the price, you know?
And yeah, and just asking thosequestions on the front end.
Do you have a budget forproduct or do you trust me?
Like, I mean, that'skind of the wide chasm.

I also think not assuming is really critical because what I will
tell you is there are some people whoare like, I don't care, spend a thousand
dollars and it doesn't matter to me.
And there are some people who are like, Idon't want you to spend $20 on something.
And sometimes those people arenot who you think they would be.
Right?

(48:06):
Correct.
Like it might be the fanciest housethat they're in who are like, I don't
really care, buy the $3 bin from Target.
It doesn't matter to me what itlooks like when you might think,
boy, this person really cares abouthow their organizing is gonna look.
And they actually might not.
Yeah.
And the person who you think might bemore rolling on a budget is like, no.

(48:29):
I wanna blow out.
I want everything fromthe Container store.
I don't want anything from Target.
Whatever that looks like, don't.
Yeah.

Yeah.
A hundred percent.

But that's one that I definitely think if there are
customer dis client dissatisfactions,that's one that I hear about a lot.
And it's just based on that mismiscommunicate, either miscommunication,
lack of communication, orjust a lack of understanding.
So I think being really clear withclients, especially when you're working
on a very big project that mightinvolve many zeros on their invoice.

Yeah, I mean, and just start making it a habit too, to ask,
you know, if you're interested inproduct, what are we talking about here?
And a lot of times peoplewill say, I have no idea.
How much do you think it'll cost?
And so then you need to get goodat estimating to be like, you
know, we could do anywhere from500 to 1500 in this kitchen.
Right.
Where do you want me to fall?
And which areas aremost important for bins?

(49:25):
I'm thinking these because this is ahigh traffic area, but you tell me,
you know, like give them some guidance.
But yeah.
Sometimes I think it's fun togoof around with clients too.
This goes with some of theabove and beyond stuff.
But I had this one client whose mom wasno longer living in the home and she
had moved into, you know, a differentplace where she could get better care.

(49:46):
And paring knives were kind of her thing.
She would just have them everywhere.
Like mixed in with paintbrushesnext to her medicine.
You know, they were just everywhere.
And so the, to the point that likewhen we found one in the garage, I'd
be like, I found your mom's callingcard, and it just became a big joke.
Yeah.
And so to this day, I hope she doesn'tsee this podcast until she moves, but I.

(50:10):
I found one more after, 'cause her, shewould laugh and just throw them away.
Right.
'cause she was like, I don'tneed like 27 paring knives.
But I wrapped one up, like to protect theblades so that no one would get cut Right.
And then taped it to the backof a piece of furniture I was
confident was going to move with herwhenever that day and I signed it.
Love Mom.
Oh, that's so cute.

(50:31):
And stuck it behind there.
So someday she'll see that andI think it'll be really sweet.
And this is actually partly sad too.
Mom has passed away now, but butlike, it was just such a thing
that was so inherently her mom.
And so I think that's the fun part ofgetting to know your clients, getting to
know what things are important to them.
Yeah.

(50:51):
Being able to goof around with them.
And I think the clients that you and Iattract are often they want someone real
and relatable and some people do want the.
Real white glove professional who's gonnacome in and not really talk to them and
just do their thing and change theirspace and make it better and easier.
And I totally respect that.
I am the organizer who's gonna be singingBroadway musicals with you when, within

(51:14):
the first five minutes, like, yeah,

I, it's funny you say that.
So, this client that I'm at now theyhad, she was showing me, we were
doing like a, what are we doing?
Tour around the house.
And she was showing me, they had a pictureof a friend on a stick, like it was for
a triathlon or a marathon or something.
Because I was like.
Tell me about that.
And she explained what it was andthen she's like, oh, the kids like
to like poke it around the cornerto scare me, and that type of thing.

(51:39):
And I'm like, okay, you're my people.
Like I love that.
That's totally somethingwe would do at our house.
And so the other day I had a huge pileof boxes that was up against the wall and
and I go, oh, I know what I'm gonna do.
And I went out and I found thestick and I put the guy coming
out of the, one of the boxes.
And and I was like, it mostlyjust entertained me, but I also
knew it would entertain them.
Right?
Like it was just a small, dumb thing.

(52:00):
But like, these are just little thingsthat show you are paying attention.
And its funny.
So,

oh, absolutely.
I've hid, it's gonna soundslike funny when I say it so
I have to describe it better.
But it was like one of thesetequila bottles from a vacation to
Mexico that had the family's photoon it from I'm sure a vacation.
Right.
And every time I would ask about it,each one would look at the other of like,
I don't know, are we gonna keep this?
We don't know.
They don't really drink.
And so, you know, after a fewdays of working in their house,

(52:28):
it ended up slipped into the bed,you know, because I was just like
picturing them taking the pillowsoff at night and being like, Missi.

Yeah.
And those are little things.
And by the way, not everyclient is that person, right?
Like I also, as you were tellingthat story, I was thinking
about another client, I'm very,you and I are very similar.
Like, we want to get to know our clientsand we're personable and we like that.
But I have a client who I, frankly, Isaid she has the personality of a potato.
Like she just she just, shedoesn't wanna chat, right?
She doesn't wanna chat.
She's all business, she is not interestedin being my friend, which is fine, but

(53:00):
it is like a different experience, right?
Because like, I'm very buttoned up.
Like when I go to her door, I'mlike, oh, hello, how are you?
Like, yeah, how aboutyou show me the project?
Like, we do not mess around.
I do not make jokes.
She, I have tried to make jokes.
She does not laugh at them.
Fine.
Those.
And those are you know, by the way,her money spends the same as the
people who la let me laugh at them.
But you know.

Absolutely.
Yeah.
And there's Right, and you're right.
No, I would not do that for everybody.
But once you have spent enoughtime with each other, like, I had
a client just last week be like,wow, you really get to know people?
I said, oh yeah, we're foldingtheir underwear sometimes.
Like, you know, I just we're in it.
We're, you know, and now we're like familydepending on how involved you are in the

(53:43):
project and how big of a project it is.
But yeah, totally.
Anyway, well,

if nothing else, we just wanna encourage people to think
about, you know, just some of the aboveand beyond things, but also just not
taking things personally, realizingyou can say, sorry, realizing there
are going to be people that you can'tmake everybody happy all the time.
What's that phrase?
Like, I can't make everyone happy.
I'm not pizza, or I'm

not Nutella.
Yeah,

Yeah.
Whatever.
Okay.
Fill in the blank with whatever.
I'm not vodka.
You can also say it doesn't matter.
Yeah.
But it is just like letting afew things go, even if it's some
money, even if it's something else.
Like you're really trying towin the long game, not the
short game with your clients.
Is that fair?

That's fair . I did think of one more thing.
There was one time where we had,there was a client who was moving.
So there was a lot of stuff that wasgoing to donate and then there was
a lot of stuff that was being kept.
And we were keeping those two piles as farapart from each other as humanly possible.
The donates were going straightonto a trailer because it was
that level of donates, and theclient was like, I got this.

(54:52):
Just get it on the trailer.
I will haul it away.
So there was a lot of double checking Yes.
Going on the trailer.
And then once.
And then once everything's on thetrailer, let's look through and
make sure like, this is going.
Somehow the next day the client wokeup and was like where are X, Y, Z?
And they were not by the keeppile, and so they panicked.

(55:13):
And so we found out where they went.
I went to that Goodwill.
I learned a lot about the processbehind the doors of Goodwill.
And those items who let

you in the back, right?
Like you, they let you search?

They did.
They let me search the back.
I went out to the floor first.
And I. God bless these Goodwill employees.
One woman goes, wait, was it this color?
And I was like, and shegoes, it's sold yesterday.
And I was like, oh my gosh.
Oh no.
Like, this is just notwhat you wanna hear, right?
No.
So, so again, phonecall called the client.
I was like, I need to tellyou that the items are gone.

(55:46):
Like they, they're no longer here.
Of course it was a sentimental item.
Of course it was.
Okay.
And I said, I'm so deeply sorry.
So I return to like, when I cannotreturn the item, what can I do?
Like, what can I offer?
And so that was when I offered like,I would love to offer you some money
so that I know that she loves, she'sa person who loves thrift stores.

(56:09):
And like, if you come across somethingelse like this in the future, or
one that reminds you of it because.
Truth be told, they weren'tactually using this item, but
they were keeping it just in case.
Right?
But it was from someonethat they cared about.
I said, I wanna give you enough moneythat you could like buy it back.
And she's like, oh, that'sreally not necessary.
And I said, I appreciate you sayingthat, but this is the only thing I can

(56:31):
think of to make this situation right.
Like, my hands feel empty.
Like, and I wanna give you something.
And she said, well, my husbandwould probably appreciate it.
I said, you got it.
You know, so Enough said.

Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
And that's, I think that in ourbusiness, the biggest potential
client dissatisfaction point issomething got accidentally donated.
Yeah.
And there are projects that I, I had onerecently and thankfully I thought of ha,
like I'm very proud of myself because Ihad this moment where I'm like, you know,

(57:06):
and I have the luxury of, I have a verybig garage and so I can do some of this.
I recognize not everybody has the abilityto do this, but it was a client that I
was doing a very complex project for,and they were saying goodbye to a lot
of clothing, but he said, some of theseare aspirational, so I wanna keep them.
I had this moment where it was likewe were doing 200 things that day.

(57:30):
Yeah.
And I'm like, I think I messedup a couple of these piles.
Like, I think one of these key piles Iput, and I just had this moment where
I go, I'm gonna keep these things, I'mnot gonna take 'em to donation yet.
And sure enough, he goes,where are my blah, blah, blah?
And I'm like, you know, I had afeeling that I messed a couple of these
things up in the haze of the chaos.

(57:51):
And so I kept all the things,I'm gonna bring them to you,
you can go through them again.
And I didn't charge him from thetime, and I didn't charge, you know,
I didn't do any of that because thatI, first of all, I was very grateful.
I didn't have to say, sorry,they disappeared six weeks ago.
Yeah.
But that, you know, donation versusnot donation, that is a process
thing that you can just be, you justhave to be really careful about.

(58:15):
But still, even if you're massivelycareful, mistakes can be made.

Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And it was one of those things where, youknow, of course the team members that were
on the team were like, I really rememberher saying, yes, they, these could go.
And and I'm like, she may have,you know, I could be remorse,
you know, like on her part.
Like I shouldn't have done this,

Right.

Yeah.
Regardless, she now wants thething and it's no longer here,
so what are we gonna do now?

That is one situation if you really wanna go, if you
truly wanna do above and beyond, Iwill tell you eBay a lot of times
you can find weird stuff on there.
So you can type in likegreen Kermit the Frog.
Salt and pepper shakers, whatever it is.
Right.
That's an option too.
But the other thing too issometimes they're like, you know,

(59:06):
old China or something like that.
replacements.com oftenhave things like that.
So there are places online that youcan look for things if you want.
It's not gonna be the person's thing,but it may replicate it if you really
wanna do that above and beyond.

Yeah.
Fair enough.

Missi, you have been on the podcast before, but tell everyone
we're, because you're such a kind andgiving person and you are great at
so many things so go back and listento some of our past podcasts with
Missi, but how can people get in touchwith you in the great wide interwebs?

The great wide innerwebs.
So I'm most active probably on storieson Instagram or Facebook on stories.
It's clear spaces organizing Facebook,it's Clear Spaces Organizing mn, and the
website is creatingclearspaces.com becauseI just like long and complicated websites.

Love it.

But yeah, I'm all of those places and thanks for having me on.
It's always fun to talkwith you and share stories.

Melissa Klug (01:00:05):
Well, and one of the things that I will say, I actually record, I
don't know when these will all post.
It's up to the mysteries of my mind.
But I recorded a podcast earlier withanother Minnesota organizer, and Missi
and I are mutual friends with her.
And one of the things that I said whichI stand by, is, get a network in your

(01:00:26):
local area unless you live somewherewhere there are no other organizers.
Go get a network becauseI was so happy last week.
I had two clients that came into myinbox that both happened to be in Missi's
Backyard and Missi's Backyard and mybackyard are very far from each other.
And so I was like, you know what?

(01:00:47):
I actually can't take these right now.
Going to send them right over to Missi.
I'm so grateful that I have referralpartners in my community that, you know,
not only can I go to for, you know,just, Hey, you'll never believe what
happened to me today, but also like,Hey, I've got this client and I think
you'll serve them better than I do.
And Missi also, I'll shout out, I had aclient speaking to client Dissatisfaction.

(01:01:10):
This is a direct one that.
Is between the two of us.
I have a client who loves me and sheasked me to go work with her dad.
Her dad didn't love me, her daddidn't love my speed, her dad didn't
love just maybe me in general.
And my client was so nice about it.
She's like, you're my speed,but you're not Larry's speed.

(01:01:30):
And I'm like, you know what?
I have someone who would beperfect for Larry and it was Missi.
And so like just get that person and geta client that is happy with someone else.
That's okay too.

Missi McKown (01:01:46):
Well thank you for that endorsement.
I appreciate it.
'cause it feels weird to comeon here and be like, let's talk
about client dissatisfaction.
And it sounds like, you know, peopleare dissatisfied but they're not
like we're serving so many peoplethat are, you know, delighted.
And.
If it's helpful, I imagine itwould be helpful to hear like, here

(01:02:06):
are some different ways you cannavigate when a client gets upset.
Because I hated when I became anorganizer there, like people were
always saying things like, it's notif a client is gonna be unhappy with
you, it's when, and I was like, I'mgonna be the exception to the rule.
You know, like, andit's just not possible.
Like it all happens at some point.

(01:02:26):
And if it hasn't happened to you yet, yay.
If it does, come back and listen becauseyes, there's always a way to fix it.

Melissa Klug (01:02:33):
It absolutely will.
And I think there is not abetter note that we can end on.
So thank you Missi, for being here.
I appreciate you.
Appreciate you too.
Thanks so much.

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222 | My Client Isn't Happy. Now What? | Missi McKown of Clear Spaces Organizing

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}222 | My Client Isn't Happy. Now What? | Missi McKown of Clear Spaces Organizing