August 17, 2023 • 27 mins
REWIND episode. Dale Dye joined The Protectors® in 2019. This was a definite fanboy moment for me, as a lifelong fan of Dale’s work in front of and behind the scenes from Platoon to Band Of Brothers and beyond. This 76th episode aired on December 19, 2019.
Join us for an enlightening chat with Captain Dale Dye, the force behind the groundbreaking '80s war film, Platoon, and the man who continues to champion military realism in Hollywood. We dissect the raw realities of Vietnam portrayed in Platoon, providing a fresh perspective on war movies, and discuss Captain Dye's pivotal role in initiating crucial conversations about PTSD and veterans' experiences.
We also delve into the work of Warriors Inc., Captain Dye's venture that has expanded beyond television and film to the publishing world, offering a platform for veterans to share their unique stories. What could be more compelling than literature penned by those on the front lines? Hear how these narratives help bridge the understanding gap between civilians and veterans. Discover the power of shared experiences and the therapeutic value of such dialogues among veterans. Explore, engage, and be inspired by our conversation with Captain Dale Dye - a hero, veteran, and guiding light.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I have a very special guest today.
I know I've said that a milliontimes before, but I'd like to
introduce you to Captain DaleDye.
How are you, sir?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm good, Jason, and thanks for taking a few moments
to talk with me today.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yes, I really appreciate this.
We set this up a little whileago and.
I've been waiting.
So here we are, we're chatting.
My first introduction to youwas in the 1980s in Platoon, and
that movie changed my life.
I think between that and someof the other movies in the 1980s
(01:05):
kind of pointed my path in thedirection of joining the Army.
Granthic Platoon was supposedto be one of these movies that
was maybe not pointing in adirection in the Army, but there
was something about it.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
What was that like for you.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Was that your first one?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
No, it wasn't actually my first one, but it
was my first one where I wasallowed to do things my way in a
movie and I started operatingfrom an agenda, and that was
simply to shine some longoverdue and much-deserved light
on the men and women who wearour uniform Platoon.
(01:41):
I had a feeling the genericmilitary movie I'd seen all my
life.
Just the common denominator wasthey pissed me off.
They weren't us, they didn'ttalk like us, they didn't think
like us, they didn't act like us, they didn't look like us, and
I knew that there must be a wayto correct that, and my Marine
(02:01):
training told me that the way tocorrect it was to train those
folks, to make them live alittle bit of our life, to make
them walk a kilometer or two inour shoes, and so they'd begin
to understand and thatunderstanding would permeate
their performance and I wasgiven an opportunity to prove
(02:23):
that with Platoon.
Now I've heard similar commentsfrom guys about Platoon and I
think it was a brutal, raw,unfiltered and unfettered look
at an impetrimate's life in thejungle fighting in Vietnam.
Now, there were works in thatand there were elements of that
(02:47):
as written and directed byOliver Stone.
That didn't cast necessarilysuch a great light on some of
the soldiers, but I think in theoverview, if you look at it, it
told the story of how Americans, under intense pressure and in
a really unimaginablyindecipherable war where there
(03:11):
weren't any absolute bads andany absolute goods and blacks
and whites and so on and soforth, now those Americans coped
with it and I saw that as areal chance to give America a
look at her men who fought thatwar.
And I think the neat thingabout it and this is a much
(03:35):
longer answer to a very shortquestion but what really
impressed me at that moment whenthat little movie that we made
for just less than ten milliondollars that's all we had won
four Academy Awards and whathappened was that a lot of the
(03:56):
ice that had built up inAmerican society, between
America writ large and veteransof that war in Vietnam began to
melt, it began to thaw and folkswho wouldn't have said word one
about their service in Vietnamsuddenly became to use an
(04:18):
improper term sort of come outof the closet.
They said, okay, look, I wasthere, I saw some of that.
Why don't you, mom and dad andmy sweetheart and my kids, why
don't you go see it?
And maybe you'll understand whyI don't talk about it a lot.
And what that showed me was thepower of the medium and how I
(04:41):
could do bigger and betterthings, if people would let me
do it my way, in terms ofcoaching and training the actors
and so on and so forth.
And of course, in Hollywood,nothing succeeds like success.
So with that Academy Awardwinning film under my belt, I
was able then to carry on andexpand what I do in motion
(05:05):
pictures and television, andit's kind of been onward and
upward since then.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Absolutely.
I believe that's where WarriorsInc came from, wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, I had actually started Warriors Inc as a kind
of a tax dodge.
Early.
I set it up as a company andthen later, as we became more
successful, I was able to hirepeople and I run it like a rifle
company.
I mean, we don't have a CEO, wehave a commanding officer.
(05:35):
We don't have a CFO, we have anadjutant.
My executive officer is a guywho is with me as a young NCO in
Vietnam and we've hired peopleoff and on to do various
projects and it's been a greatthing.
We expanded it beyond moviesand television and video games
(05:57):
and music videos, themedentertainment, and we also now
run a Warriors Publishing Groupwhich publishes books about the
military and usually written byveterans.
So it's been a skylark.
It took off like topsy.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Well, that's one thing I wanted to mention too,
as Warriors Publishing Group, isthat you have books on now.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I've written 13 novels and they including a
series.
That's kind of oh, I guess theclosest comparison would be Lee
Childs Jack Reacher's series, soit's a continuing character,
and we've published some reallyterrific titles.
We have John Del Vecchio's 13Valley Reprint and I think the
(06:47):
last count was 24 or 25 titlesout there and they really appeal
to the veteran audience.
They can come to WarriorsPublishing Group online and see
all these great books either byveterans or about military
topics in general, and whatwe've found here is that we've
got a tiger by the tail.
(07:07):
I mean, we're doing quite wellin this age of e-publishing and
so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Well, that's one thing.
I wrote a nonfiction book.
I'm writing another nonfictionbook.
I'd love to get into thefiction realm.
And one thing I love is I'vehad a ton of really good authors
on the podcast and the realismand a lot of more veterans,
maybe SEALs, delta, all sorts ofgood guys that are just writing
good books now, and that's thething about the military is,
(07:36):
when you're writing these books,there's such a sense of realism
about it.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, there is, and you know what I'd really like to
see and what I opt for.
You know I've had about all thehigh speed, low drag, ranger,
delta stuff I can stomach Notthat they aren't great things,
but geez, I get all thelimelight.
What I want is a book by asquad leader, you know a guy who
(08:05):
just got out there with averageJoe's and did what he had to do
and did it brilliantly.
And I look for those kind booksand that's what we need.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Right now there's such a huge influx and I
shouldn't say huge, because onlylike a certain percentage of us
have ever served in a war butthere are so many vets that are
getting into the media now intowriting books, into TV shows and
to act everything.
And you know, range 15 is onegreat example of initiatives and
(08:40):
you were part of that.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well, I hope so.
I never intended to be an actor,but I've always had a creative
bent.
I mean, for all the years I wasin uniform, I was always the
guy around the campfire oraround the ration cooker who
could tell you a shaggy dogstory and make it last for 45
(09:05):
minutes and entertain the hellout of everyone.
That was always me and I guessit's my Irish heritage
storyteller background.
But it served me well in what Ifinally wound up doing once I
retired Retired being aeuphemism.
I think I've tried to retirethree times and have yet to do
it.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
That's my second career is coming up and
hopefully I'll be doing thispodcast and stuff and all that.
But yeah, and that's one of themilitary things about us we
just can't stand still.
I don't know if it's one of the.
You have to find a new missionand the new mission turns into
like Warrior's Inc WarriorsPublishing, but it's really cool
Well look we've all got a verylow boredom factor, jason.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I mean, you know from your time in uniform that
anytime we get bored we get introuble.
So the big thing is findsomething that tickles the hell
out of you and do it.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Now you bring a different perspective and that's
one thing I always liked aboutwhenever I see you're associated
with a movie.
One of the big use for me waslater on was the the Banner
Brothers series and how you kindof went with those guys up into
.
It, felt such, you know,between the book and between you
and everything else, it justhad this you could tell there
was a military, a real militaryinfluence behind it.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I was very lucky.
I had three weeks and Spielbergand Hanks behind me and they
had been fans of my earlier work, so they let me do it my way.
And I did.
You know, I went as so far asto take them up to RAF Bryson
Orton, the British number twoparachute school, and run them
(10:51):
through ground school and Ibuilt them into Easy Company.
And you know an interestingaspect of that that nobody
usually talks about, but I'mgoing to tell you, because now I
have a flatmore.
Before I ever trained the firstAmerican in that series, I
(11:11):
trained a unit of Germans, andthe reason I did that is because
I believe that in movies and intelevision, if the enemy is
just cartoon characters,cardboard cutouts who were there
just to disappear in a pinkmist, if you go that route
you've really ratcheted down thegibberty.
(11:33):
I mean, it looks like we'refighting clowns, and I said you
know that that's wasn't true atall in any of the wars I had in
the association with, andcertainly wasn't true with the
German army in World War Two.
And so I trained them to behard, tough, intelligent,
tactically sound fighters, andthose are the guys we use
(11:56):
throughout the series.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
You know that.
I'm glad you brought somethingelse with that up because you
always look at.
You know, if you're watchingyou like the cheesy action
movies, the enemies is like thisfaceless guy who you're killing
.
There's no anything about it,but that band of others
absolutely had, like a great,not to say that the enemy is bad
or good or whatever, but theyhad a great enemy in that movie,
(12:18):
like you just didn't know whatwas going to happen, whether
it's a sniper, whether it's agun or whatever.
Those guys were really good.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And I know, yeah, I intended that and I did the same
thing with Saving Private Ryanand with the Pacific, where we
trained a unit of JapaneseImperial Japanese Army troops,
and that's one of the littleaspects that I bring to a film
or a television series that Ithink nobody really gave a lot
(12:47):
of thought to before.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
No, absolutely not.
And when you put a human facebehind the enemy, you could
either love them or hate them,or there's something there that
maybe that's why we'reinterested in?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
And that's what we can't do nowadays either.
That's right.
Well, one thing I really likeis you're actually putting a
face on veterans now, andespecially the post-Vietnam era,
but even nowadays and one ofthe programs I'm involved with
is this program called Hillbetsand what we do is we work in a
(13:22):
transition veterans to work inCapitol Hill and politics and
everything and one of the thingswe're working on right now is
to merge the gap between mediatelevision and everything in
veterans, Because right now,anytime a veteran does anything,
it's like oh, they have PTSD,they're a killer, et cetera, and
I'm sure that's the same thing.
That was like when we came backfrom the war.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
It was yeah, absolutely.
And here's the difference.
And if there's one thing that Iwould credit my generation for,
my Vietnam veteran generation,it's that the bad example that
we were kind of forced to sethas created a knee-jerk reaction
.
Let me explain that to you alittle bit.
(14:05):
I'm sure you know it, but I'mgoing to explain it anyway.
When we came home, it was oneof the most divisive times in
our nation's social history.
You were either ignorant of thewar intentionally, or you hated
it, or you were a big hawk, andthe nation was just turbulent
(14:27):
and divided with all kinds ofthings.
And so when we came home, therecertainly were no victory
parades or anything like that.
And because nobody wanted totalk about it, a lot of my
generation of veterans just keptthat stuff inside and in the
long run it ate holes in theirguts and they started
(14:47):
self-medicating with drugs oralcohol and things like that,
and that was a really bad thingfor an entire generation of
Americans.
And so once we came out of that, closet with the advent of
platoon and a number of otherthings and the so-called
national welcome home I use thatterm euphemistically, but once
(15:13):
we came out and started talkingabout it, the one absolute
bottom line that we all said toourselves writ large was that we
will never let this happenagain to another generation of
American veterans.
And I think a lot of uscertainly me and my friends have
(15:33):
worked to avoid that.
I think there's way way too muchcrapola about PTSD.
It's easy money for some peopleand that's a shame.
But there is a psychologicaleffect to having been at war and
(15:54):
the best way to treat that, thebest way to assuage some of
that psychological trauma, issimply to talk about it.
Don't hold it inside.
I hear it from 100 veterans aweek.
I can't talk to my wife, or Ican't talk to my mom and dad, or
(16:16):
I can't talk to my old highschool buddies who didn't go
because they just don't get itand anything I say is
misinterpreted and so on and soforth.
And I say, well then, don'ttell them.
Tell me and tell some of theother guys who were there with
you.
They're easy to find, christ.
Do you stand in line at the DMVand you can spot them.
(16:38):
I can.
I just go up and pinch theirelbow and say, hey, bud, guess
what, I get it.
And you'll laugh and we'llstart talking and maybe we'll
have coffee or we'll just BSwhile we're waiting in line.
But it's like they're back inuniform again.
They're talking to a guy whogets it.
We can shorthand so many thingsand I think that's so healthy
(17:01):
and I encourage everybody to doit.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I do too, and I kind of call it almost like a
grassroots thing, because if I'mnot growing a tough day, go 24,
48 hours right.
I just want to bullshit withsomeone.
But I'm going to call it 1-800number If I could get now, with
the influx of Excuse me With theinfluence of social media and
phones, I could text them.
(17:24):
You know, I could sure hitsomeone up.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And you know, yeah, you can and and you know what?
Look, I applaud all of theseefforts.
You know scuba diving forveterans, and guitars for
veterans, and nature hikes forveterans, and horseback riding
for and yada, yada, yada.
That's all good stuff and andI'm glad people are Socially
conscious enough to do that sortof thing for our veterans.
(17:47):
But what really helps is Ifthey can talk to another guy who
gets it, and they don't have toknow him from Adams off ox, all
they have to know is that he'sbeen there and he's done that.
It's suddenly they'llunburdened.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah it's like it's and it's true.
This brotherhood, sisterhood orwhatever Is just so easy and
you're right, you could.
You could spot the vet in thecrowd, just like I just bought
the alias in the crowd andveterans.
But you, if you have an instantKinship and you could just talk
about whatever and Sometimesyou just need to vent for a 10
(18:22):
minutes and then you're good foranother whatever day.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah, you're good, you're good for a month.
Yeah, I know exactly what youmean and I do it all the time
when I'm on the road I spotthese guys and you know it's
it's hard to break away fromthem after it starts and, and I
don't mind, I give them as muchtime as I can.
But but look that, us, usveterans and I use the term to
(18:46):
cover a lot of arrows, but usveterans, you know, the guys
who've seen the elephant, heardthe owl.
One of the kindest and mosthelpful things we can do is just
find another guy Right in thebus, you know, or on the train,
or our God preserve us inside,you know, the I-95 circle in
(19:08):
Washington.
You can find those guys and youjust you just say, hey, man,
where'd you serve?
And never mind, I did you.
And then you start, and thenthat's him, you know he'll start
telling you and and on it goes,and they walk away smiling and
that's all it takes you know,maybe sometimes that'll save
someone's life.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
It's almost like a ripple effect you help them out,
maybe they'll help another guyroll out, and it just keeps
going on.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
That's it, that's it, that's it directly on the nail
head.
Jason, you're right.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
And that's an.
It's an.
That's one thing.
Look at the effect your moviesand your participation in movies
has affected millions ofveterans and those currently
servings.
I mean that's such a huge thing, you know, and that's why.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I hear him tell me that, so I hope, if you're, oh,
it's absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
You know, growing up we didn't have and I shouldn't
say I'm not crazy old, I'mcloser to 50 and 40 but growing
up I didn't have social mediaand I used to just grasp and
that's why I like the platoonsand and all the movies were a
big, huge influence and that'slike it was so hard to find any
books that had anything.
And you're right to all thebooks back then and we're all
(20:21):
Basically long-rangereconnaissance, a couple marine
books.
I read the Hackworth books butthere was hardly any, anybody
those like you know a squadleader putting out a book.
And now I'm like I like seeingthat.
You know platoon books arecoming out, not like to books,
but you have outlaw platoon bySean Parnell.
You're having regular guysComing out and writing good
(20:42):
books you know about yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Going on now, the problem, the problem is finding
publishers and, and you know,because the people who are
publishers are, I mean, in NewYork, the people who are reading
and making acceptor rejectdecisions are clueless, oh and
and they're, they're, they'recompletely tone deaf to an
entire generation of Americanswho fought in Afghanistan and
(21:08):
Iraq and and Syria, on, on andon and on.
That's why I started Warriorspublishing group.
I'm not tone deaf to that sortof thing, nor is, nor are the
people who are our fans, wholook for those books and buy
them from us, and you know, withthe publishing market now you
don't need a huge clearing, elseyou have England Sparks.
You know, Amazon publishing.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You know, I've come up to ring them Sparks and it's
like it's in blinds in a withand everywhere.
I want it to be, and it's trueif anybody out there wants to
write a book.
Check out warrior publishing,warriors publishing.
Yeah, I mean we're talking,service them.
There's the stuff, because weneed good.
When you put your story onpaper, it's a new world and
(21:48):
Sometimes it's all there.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Any news you need.
It can be therapeutic.
Jason, it really can we justnow.
Are you still with me?
Yes, I'm right here.
Okay, I heard some weird.
Probably the NSA is monitoring.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Oh, it's absolutely the NSA it's my wife, her and
her ex-boyfriends right now arelistening.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, probably so.
But what I did?
I took a look and I said weneed a venue here.
We need somebody that isn't theNew York publishing
establishment to step up and saythese are worthy stories.
Look, not everybody is a greatwriter and I can't fix bad
(22:37):
writing, but I recognize goodstories.
There are so many of them outthere.
That experience of being at waror even wearing the uniform
changes your whole perspective,your whole life, and if you can
just tell that story, I meanlook, it's therapeutic.
You can simply start knockingthose out and see if you're a
(23:03):
writer.
Maybe you aren't, but just thebusiness of writing that story,
telling it to yourself withnobody else, gives you a fresh
perspective online, I think, andthat's valuable.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I agree completely and I always tell people when
they're starting to write a bookdon't write it like you're
writing from A to B to C.
Don't write it like you'reattacking an objective.
Write it from hey.
One day you want to write aboutA, write about A.
If you want to write about D,write about D.
Wake it up.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, you can start it together later.
Yeah, for right.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Just write.
I'm so happy we talked aboutthat, because I've queried a
million different agents andthey just don't want to hear the
stories that sometimes militaryor law enforcement authors have
to say.
So it's a great perspective tohave this out there for
everybody.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, it's absolutely true, and when you start, don't
write for anybody but yourself.
Those things that you'reremembering and talking about
are probably significant things,and what you want to understand
is that they're so far out ofthe realm of the average
individual these days that theymake if nothing else, they make
(24:20):
a great curiosity, and so peopletake a look at them.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And maybe the book's just going to help you out, but
it's going to help someone elseout and you can read a book and,
like nowadays, you can read abook in a day or two.
So people are grasping for morebooks, so you could always keep
writing, because everybodywants books.
There's plenty of room foreverybody out there.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, there is.
I think the New York publishingestablishment is on its last
legs and they keep going to thisday with big name authors like
the people who are ghostwritingClancy now, and Lee Child and
all of those guys who are knownthriller writers.
(25:06):
That's where they go.
And a guy who isn't that andgoes to New York and tries to
get published is in a longuphill slog.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on Now.
Do you have any charities orcauses or anything you want to
talk to me?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I've got them all.
I'm a big believer in the workthat's being done sort of behind
the scenes, with the.
Vfw and the American Legion.
I think they have a longhistory of helping veterans and
(25:48):
providing good information andgood practical help.
So I kind of go with theestablished guys, although I'll
help anybody that I think has agood cause.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, I've noticed that about you.
You just keep giving back, andthat's the big reason I really
wanted to have you on as one ofmy guests.
Like I said, you're one of mychildhood heroes and you're one
of my heroes now as an adult.
That makes me feel, jason, youknow what?
(26:21):
We've got a 30 company ordifferent size not that much.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm still out there doing pink tea,
yeah, I know.
Yeah, I got to.
I got to outrun those youngmaggots and I got to keep it, so
that all they want to do isstay up with the white haired
guy and they're all right.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I love it.
Well, next time I'm out yourway, I'll stop by and buy you a
cup of coffee or something likethat.
Terrific Love to do that.
Well, sir, I really appreciatethis and thank you so much for
coming on.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Sure, Jason, it's my pleasure and thanks for the work
you do.
I mean, look things likepodcasts as well as publishing
and movies and television and soon and so forth.
They're all part of the bigeffort.
They're all part of that bigblanket of brotherhood that we
share as veterans.
So keep it up, You're doing agood job.
Thank you, sir.
I have a very special guest today.
I know I've said that a milliontimes before, but I'd like to
introduce you to Captain DaleDye.
How are you, sir?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm good, Jason, and thanks for taking a few moments
to talk with me today.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yes, I really appreciate this.
We set this up a little whileago and.
I've been waiting.
So here we are, we're chatting.
My first introduction to youwas in the 1980s in Platoon, and
that movie changed my life.
I think between that and someof the other movies in the 1980s
(01:05):
kind of pointed my path in thedirection of joining the Army.
Granthic Platoon was supposedto be one of these movies that
was maybe not pointing in adirection in the Army, but there
was something about it.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
What was that like for you.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Was that your first one?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
No, it wasn't actually my first one, but it
was my first one where I wasallowed to do things my way in a
movie and I started operatingfrom an agenda, and that was
simply to shine some longoverdue and much-deserved light
on the men and women who wearour uniform Platoon.
(01:41):
I had a feeling the genericmilitary movie I'd seen all my
life.
Just the common denominator wasthey pissed me off.
They weren't us, they didn'ttalk like us, they didn't think
like us, they didn't act like us, they didn't look like us, and
I knew that there must be a wayto correct that, and my Marine
(02:01):
training told me that the way tocorrect it was to train those
folks, to make them live alittle bit of our life, to make
them walk a kilometer or two inour shoes, and so they'd begin
to understand and thatunderstanding would permeate
their performance and I wasgiven an opportunity to prove
(02:23):
that with Platoon.
Now I've heard similar commentsfrom guys about Platoon and I
think it was a brutal, raw,unfiltered and unfettered look
at an impetrimate's life in thejungle fighting in Vietnam.
Now, there were works in thatand there were elements of that
(02:47):
as written and directed byOliver Stone.
That didn't cast necessarilysuch a great light on some of
the soldiers, but I think in theoverview, if you look at it, it
told the story of how Americans, under intense pressure and in
a really unimaginablyindecipherable war where there
(03:11):
weren't any absolute bads andany absolute goods and blacks
and whites and so on and soforth, now those Americans coped
with it and I saw that as areal chance to give America a
look at her men who fought thatwar.
And I think the neat thingabout it and this is a much
(03:35):
longer answer to a very shortquestion but what really
impressed me at that moment whenthat little movie that we made
for just less than ten milliondollars that's all we had won
four Academy Awards and whathappened was that a lot of the
(03:56):
ice that had built up inAmerican society, between
America writ large and veteransof that war in Vietnam began to
melt, it began to thaw and folkswho wouldn't have said word one
about their service in Vietnamsuddenly became to use an
(04:18):
improper term sort of come outof the closet.
They said, okay, look, I wasthere, I saw some of that.
Why don't you, mom and dad andmy sweetheart and my kids, why
don't you go see it?
And maybe you'll understand whyI don't talk about it a lot.
And what that showed me was thepower of the medium and how I
(04:41):
could do bigger and betterthings, if people would let me
do it my way, in terms ofcoaching and training the actors
and so on and so forth.
And of course, in Hollywood,nothing succeeds like success.
So with that Academy Awardwinning film under my belt, I
was able then to carry on andexpand what I do in motion
(05:05):
pictures and television, andit's kind of been onward and
upward since then.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Absolutely.
I believe that's where WarriorsInc came from, wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, I had actually started Warriors Inc as a kind
of a tax dodge.
Early.
I set it up as a company andthen later, as we became more
successful, I was able to hirepeople and I run it like a rifle
company.
I mean, we don't have a CEO, wehave a commanding officer.
(05:35):
We don't have a CFO, we have anadjutant.
My executive officer is a guywho is with me as a young NCO in
Vietnam and we've hired peopleoff and on to do various
projects and it's been a greatthing.
We expanded it beyond moviesand television and video games
(05:57):
and music videos, themedentertainment, and we also now
run a Warriors Publishing Groupwhich publishes books about the
military and usually written byveterans.
So it's been a skylark.
It took off like topsy.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Well, that's one thing I wanted to mention too,
as Warriors Publishing Group, isthat you have books on now.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I've written 13 novels and they including a
series.
That's kind of oh, I guess theclosest comparison would be Lee
Childs Jack Reacher's series, soit's a continuing character,
and we've published some reallyterrific titles.
We have John Del Vecchio's 13Valley Reprint and I think the
(06:47):
last count was 24 or 25 titlesout there and they really appeal
to the veteran audience.
They can come to WarriorsPublishing Group online and see
all these great books either byveterans or about military
topics in general, and whatwe've found here is that we've
got a tiger by the tail.
(07:07):
I mean, we're doing quite wellin this age of e-publishing and
so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Well, that's one thing.
I wrote a nonfiction book.
I'm writing another nonfictionbook.
I'd love to get into thefiction realm.
And one thing I love is I'vehad a ton of really good authors
on the podcast and the realismand a lot of more veterans,
maybe SEALs, delta, all sorts ofgood guys that are just writing
good books now, and that's thething about the military is,
(07:36):
when you're writing these books,there's such a sense of realism
about it.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, there is, and you know what I'd really like to
see and what I opt for.
You know I've had about all thehigh speed, low drag, ranger,
delta stuff I can stomach Notthat they aren't great things,
but geez, I get all thelimelight.
What I want is a book by asquad leader, you know a guy who
(08:05):
just got out there with averageJoe's and did what he had to do
and did it brilliantly.
And I look for those kind booksand that's what we need.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Right now there's such a huge influx and I
shouldn't say huge, because onlylike a certain percentage of us
have ever served in a war butthere are so many vets that are
getting into the media now intowriting books, into TV shows and
to act everything.
And you know, range 15 is onegreat example of initiatives and
(08:40):
you were part of that.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well, I hope so.
I never intended to be an actor,but I've always had a creative
bent.
I mean, for all the years I wasin uniform, I was always the
guy around the campfire oraround the ration cooker who
could tell you a shaggy dogstory and make it last for 45
(09:05):
minutes and entertain the hellout of everyone.
That was always me and I guessit's my Irish heritage
storyteller background.
But it served me well in what Ifinally wound up doing once I
retired Retired being aeuphemism.
I think I've tried to retirethree times and have yet to do
it.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
That's my second career is coming up and
hopefully I'll be doing thispodcast and stuff and all that.
But yeah, and that's one of themilitary things about us we
just can't stand still.
I don't know if it's one of the.
You have to find a new missionand the new mission turns into
like Warrior's Inc WarriorsPublishing, but it's really cool
Well look we've all got a verylow boredom factor, jason.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I mean, you know from your time in uniform that
anytime we get bored we get introuble.
So the big thing is findsomething that tickles the hell
out of you and do it.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Now you bring a different perspective and that's
one thing I always liked aboutwhenever I see you're associated
with a movie.
One of the big use for me waslater on was the the Banner
Brothers series and how you kindof went with those guys up into
.
It, felt such, you know,between the book and between you
and everything else, it justhad this you could tell there
was a military, a real militaryinfluence behind it.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I was very lucky.
I had three weeks and Spielbergand Hanks behind me and they
had been fans of my earlier work, so they let me do it my way.
And I did.
You know, I went as so far asto take them up to RAF Bryson
Orton, the British number twoparachute school, and run them
(10:51):
through ground school and Ibuilt them into Easy Company.
And you know an interestingaspect of that that nobody
usually talks about, but I'mgoing to tell you, because now I
have a flatmore.
Before I ever trained the firstAmerican in that series, I
(11:11):
trained a unit of Germans, andthe reason I did that is because
I believe that in movies and intelevision, if the enemy is
just cartoon characters,cardboard cutouts who were there
just to disappear in a pinkmist, if you go that route
you've really ratcheted down thegibberty.
(11:33):
I mean, it looks like we'refighting clowns, and I said you
know that that's wasn't true atall in any of the wars I had in
the association with, andcertainly wasn't true with the
German army in World War Two.
And so I trained them to behard, tough, intelligent,
tactically sound fighters, andthose are the guys we use
(11:56):
throughout the series.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
You know that.
I'm glad you brought somethingelse with that up because you
always look at.
You know, if you're watchingyou like the cheesy action
movies, the enemies is like thisfaceless guy who you're killing
.
There's no anything about it,but that band of others
absolutely had, like a great,not to say that the enemy is bad
or good or whatever, but theyhad a great enemy in that movie,
(12:18):
like you just didn't know whatwas going to happen, whether
it's a sniper, whether it's agun or whatever.
Those guys were really good.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And I know, yeah, I intended that and I did the same
thing with Saving Private Ryanand with the Pacific, where we
trained a unit of JapaneseImperial Japanese Army troops,
and that's one of the littleaspects that I bring to a film
or a television series that Ithink nobody really gave a lot
(12:47):
of thought to before.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
No, absolutely not.
And when you put a human facebehind the enemy, you could
either love them or hate them,or there's something there that
maybe that's why we'reinterested in?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
And that's what we can't do nowadays either.
That's right.
Well, one thing I really likeis you're actually putting a
face on veterans now, andespecially the post-Vietnam era,
but even nowadays and one ofthe programs I'm involved with
is this program called Hillbetsand what we do is we work in a
(13:22):
transition veterans to work inCapitol Hill and politics and
everything and one of the thingswe're working on right now is
to merge the gap between mediatelevision and everything in
veterans, Because right now,anytime a veteran does anything,
it's like oh, they have PTSD,they're a killer, et cetera, and
I'm sure that's the same thing.
That was like when we came backfrom the war.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
It was yeah, absolutely.
And here's the difference.
And if there's one thing that Iwould credit my generation for,
my Vietnam veteran generation,it's that the bad example that
we were kind of forced to sethas created a knee-jerk reaction
.
Let me explain that to you alittle bit.
(14:05):
I'm sure you know it, but I'mgoing to explain it anyway.
When we came home, it was oneof the most divisive times in
our nation's social history.
You were either ignorant of thewar intentionally, or you hated
it, or you were a big hawk, andthe nation was just turbulent
(14:27):
and divided with all kinds ofthings.
And so when we came home, therecertainly were no victory
parades or anything like that.
And because nobody wanted totalk about it, a lot of my
generation of veterans just keptthat stuff inside and in the
long run it ate holes in theirguts and they started
(14:47):
self-medicating with drugs oralcohol and things like that,
and that was a really bad thingfor an entire generation of
Americans.
And so once we came out of that, closet with the advent of
platoon and a number of otherthings and the so-called
national welcome home I use thatterm euphemistically, but once
(15:13):
we came out and started talkingabout it, the one absolute
bottom line that we all said toourselves writ large was that we
will never let this happenagain to another generation of
American veterans.
And I think a lot of uscertainly me and my friends have
(15:33):
worked to avoid that.
I think there's way way too muchcrapola about PTSD.
It's easy money for some peopleand that's a shame.
But there is a psychologicaleffect to having been at war and
(15:54):
the best way to treat that, thebest way to assuage some of
that psychological trauma, issimply to talk about it.
Don't hold it inside.
I hear it from 100 veterans aweek.
I can't talk to my wife, or Ican't talk to my mom and dad, or
(16:16):
I can't talk to my old highschool buddies who didn't go
because they just don't get itand anything I say is
misinterpreted and so on and soforth.
And I say, well then, don'ttell them.
Tell me and tell some of theother guys who were there with
you.
They're easy to find, christ.
Do you stand in line at the DMVand you can spot them.
(16:38):
I can.
I just go up and pinch theirelbow and say, hey, bud, guess
what, I get it.
And you'll laugh and we'llstart talking and maybe we'll
have coffee or we'll just BSwhile we're waiting in line.
But it's like they're back inuniform again.
They're talking to a guy whogets it.
We can shorthand so many thingsand I think that's so healthy
(17:01):
and I encourage everybody to doit.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I do too, and I kind of call it almost like a
grassroots thing, because if I'mnot growing a tough day, go 24,
48 hours right.
I just want to bullshit withsomeone.
But I'm going to call it 1-800number If I could get now, with
the influx of Excuse me With theinfluence of social media and
phones, I could text them.
(17:24):
You know, I could sure hitsomeone up.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And you know, yeah, you can and and you know what?
Look, I applaud all of theseefforts.
You know scuba diving forveterans, and guitars for
veterans, and nature hikes forveterans, and horseback riding
for and yada, yada, yada.
That's all good stuff and andI'm glad people are Socially
conscious enough to do that sortof thing for our veterans.
(17:47):
But what really helps is Ifthey can talk to another guy who
gets it, and they don't have toknow him from Adams off ox, all
they have to know is that he'sbeen there and he's done that.
It's suddenly they'llunburdened.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah it's like it's and it's true.
This brotherhood, sisterhood orwhatever Is just so easy and
you're right, you could.
You could spot the vet in thecrowd, just like I just bought
the alias in the crowd andveterans.
But you, if you have an instantKinship and you could just talk
about whatever and Sometimesyou just need to vent for a 10
(18:22):
minutes and then you're good foranother whatever day.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah, you're good, you're good for a month.
Yeah, I know exactly what youmean and I do it all the time
when I'm on the road I spotthese guys and you know it's
it's hard to break away fromthem after it starts and, and I
don't mind, I give them as muchtime as I can.
But but look that, us, usveterans and I use the term to
(18:46):
cover a lot of arrows, but usveterans, you know, the guys
who've seen the elephant, heardthe owl.
One of the kindest and mosthelpful things we can do is just
find another guy Right in thebus, you know, or on the train,
or our God preserve us inside,you know, the I-95 circle in
(19:08):
Washington.
You can find those guys and youjust you just say, hey, man,
where'd you serve?
And never mind, I did you.
And then you start, and thenthat's him, you know he'll start
telling you and and on it goes,and they walk away smiling and
that's all it takes you know,maybe sometimes that'll save
someone's life.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
It's almost like a ripple effect you help them out,
maybe they'll help another guyroll out, and it just keeps
going on.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
That's it, that's it, that's it directly on the nail
head.
Jason, you're right.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
And that's an.
It's an.
That's one thing.
Look at the effect your moviesand your participation in movies
has affected millions ofveterans and those currently
servings.
I mean that's such a huge thing, you know, and that's why.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I hear him tell me that, so I hope, if you're, oh,
it's absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
You know, growing up we didn't have and I shouldn't
say I'm not crazy old, I'mcloser to 50 and 40 but growing
up I didn't have social mediaand I used to just grasp and
that's why I like the platoonsand and all the movies were a
big, huge influence and that'slike it was so hard to find any
books that had anything.
And you're right to all thebooks back then and we're all
(20:21):
Basically long-rangereconnaissance, a couple marine
books.
I read the Hackworth books butthere was hardly any, anybody
those like you know a squadleader putting out a book.
And now I'm like I like seeingthat.
You know platoon books arecoming out, not like to books,
but you have outlaw platoon bySean Parnell.
You're having regular guysComing out and writing good
(20:42):
books you know about yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Going on now, the problem, the problem is finding
publishers and, and you know,because the people who are
publishers are, I mean, in NewYork, the people who are reading
and making acceptor rejectdecisions are clueless, oh and
and they're, they're, they'recompletely tone deaf to an
entire generation of Americanswho fought in Afghanistan and
(21:08):
Iraq and and Syria, on, on andon and on.
That's why I started Warriorspublishing group.
I'm not tone deaf to that sortof thing, nor is, nor are the
people who are our fans, wholook for those books and buy
them from us, and you know, withthe publishing market now you
don't need a huge clearing, elseyou have England Sparks.
You know, Amazon publishing.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You know, I've come up to ring them Sparks and it's
like it's in blinds in a withand everywhere.
I want it to be, and it's trueif anybody out there wants to
write a book.
Check out warrior publishing,warriors publishing.
Yeah, I mean we're talking,service them.
There's the stuff, because weneed good.
When you put your story onpaper, it's a new world and
(21:48):
Sometimes it's all there.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Any news you need.
It can be therapeutic.
Jason, it really can we justnow.
Are you still with me?
Yes, I'm right here.
Okay, I heard some weird.
Probably the NSA is monitoring.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Oh, it's absolutely the NSA it's my wife, her and
her ex-boyfriends right now arelistening.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, probably so.
But what I did?
I took a look and I said weneed a venue here.
We need somebody that isn't theNew York publishing
establishment to step up and saythese are worthy stories.
Look, not everybody is a greatwriter and I can't fix bad
(22:37):
writing, but I recognize goodstories.
There are so many of them outthere.
That experience of being at waror even wearing the uniform
changes your whole perspective,your whole life, and if you can
just tell that story, I meanlook, it's therapeutic.
You can simply start knockingthose out and see if you're a
(23:03):
writer.
Maybe you aren't, but just thebusiness of writing that story,
telling it to yourself withnobody else, gives you a fresh
perspective online, I think, andthat's valuable.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I agree completely and I always tell people when
they're starting to write a bookdon't write it like you're
writing from A to B to C.
Don't write it like you'reattacking an objective.
Write it from hey.
One day you want to write aboutA, write about A.
If you want to write about D,write about D.
Wake it up.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, you can start it together later.
Yeah, for right.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Just write.
I'm so happy we talked aboutthat, because I've queried a
million different agents andthey just don't want to hear the
stories that sometimes militaryor law enforcement authors have
to say.
So it's a great perspective tohave this out there for
everybody.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, it's absolutely true, and when you start, don't
write for anybody but yourself.
Those things that you'reremembering and talking about
are probably significant things,and what you want to understand
is that they're so far out ofthe realm of the average
individual these days that theymake if nothing else, they make
(24:20):
a great curiosity, and so peopletake a look at them.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And maybe the book's just going to help you out, but
it's going to help someone elseout and you can read a book and,
like nowadays, you can read abook in a day or two.
So people are grasping for morebooks, so you could always keep
writing, because everybodywants books.
There's plenty of room foreverybody out there.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, there is.
I think the New York publishingestablishment is on its last
legs and they keep going to thisday with big name authors like
the people who are ghostwritingClancy now, and Lee Child and
all of those guys who are knownthriller writers.
(25:06):
That's where they go.
And a guy who isn't that andgoes to New York and tries to
get published is in a longuphill slog.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on Now.
Do you have any charities orcauses or anything you want to
talk to me?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I've got them all.
I'm a big believer in the workthat's being done sort of behind
the scenes, with the.
Vfw and the American Legion.
I think they have a longhistory of helping veterans and
(25:48):
providing good information andgood practical help.
So I kind of go with theestablished guys, although I'll
help anybody that I think has agood cause.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, I've noticed that about you.
You just keep giving back, andthat's the big reason I really
wanted to have you on as one ofmy guests.
Like I said, you're one of mychildhood heroes and you're one
of my heroes now as an adult.
That makes me feel, jason, youknow what?
(26:21):
We've got a 30 company ordifferent size not that much.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm still out there doing pink tea,
yeah, I know.
Yeah, I got to.
I got to outrun those youngmaggots and I got to keep it, so
that all they want to do isstay up with the white haired
guy and they're all right.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I love it.
Well, next time I'm out yourway, I'll stop by and buy you a
cup of coffee or something likethat.
Terrific Love to do that.
Well, sir, I really appreciatethis and thank you so much for
coming on.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Sure, Jason, it's my pleasure and thanks for the work
you do.
I mean, look things likepodcasts as well as publishing
and movies and television and soon and so forth.
They're all part of the bigeffort.
They're all part of that bigblanket of brotherhood that we
share as veterans.
So keep it up, You're doing agood job.
Thank you, sir.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!