Ever wondered how understanding human behavior can make you smarter, faster, and harder to kill? Buckle up as we navigate through this thrilling conversation with Brian Marren and Greg Williams, the brains behind the 'Left of Greg' podcast. \
Our chat extends beyond the military and law enforcement, touching on concepts that are applicable to everyday life. How can you use frequencies and de-escalation to better understand your behavior and those around you? How can the notion of 'duty to intervene' apply to you? We also discuss their business, Arcadia Cognerati, aimed at facilitating learning about human behavior, pattern recognition, and analysis. Don't miss out on this captivating exploration of the human mind and behavior.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hey, welcome to the protectors podcast.
I think we are an episode 450something.
It's a lot of episodes.
I'm excited to have these guyson.
I was on their podcast to leftGreg not that long ago at great
conversations.
Greg Williams, brian Marinwelcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thanks for having us on, man.
It was great talking to you.
We got some great feedback fromwhen you were on our episode
and people liked it.
They kind of got where we weregoing with and they appreciated
your insight.
Oh, actually that reminds meand we'll talk offline, but I do
have someone that might want toreach out to you, Some
questions about something, so wecan get into that later.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
But I just it's not an attorney.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
No, it's not, hey, that's good, I'm like hey, I
didn't do it.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
You're being served, Jason.
That's what it is.
Just meet me at the hallway.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Listen, I'm in an undisclosed location somewhere
in the United States, in abunker, so they can't find it.
There's no way.
But that is one thing aboutyour podcast it's very in-depth,
very thorough.
You guys do your researchbefore you have a guest on.
You have a lot of relevantdiscussions about what's going
on today.
Where did the concept for apodcast come for you both?
How did you link up to do apodcast?
(01:26):
Obviously, you have thebusiness item together, but
that's such a great question.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
First of all, kudos to you, because we absolutely
love your podcast and I suggestit everywhere I go.
That's not just a chat.
One of the episodes you did waswith Dale Dye.
We're fanboys of Dale Todd Fox,we're fanboys Peter Forsselley,
the ATF guy.
(01:51):
You do a lot of great stuff.
The protectors episodes werejust honored to be on there.
Specifically to answer the firstpart of that question, marin
and I travel all the time, inaddition to being a business
partner and senior VP ofoperations and a great friend
and a lover and all the otherthings that Brian has become
over the years.
(02:11):
That's a joke, but it's a goodone for those that know us.
What happens is that Brian andI are trapped in a rental car
hotel in a hallway before we goon in the green room and we have
these discussions.
Sometimes when we joked all thetime that listen, we should
capture some of this.
This is wonderful stuff,because I'm completely deaf and
(02:33):
Brian's only partially deaf.
Brian's always driving therental slide.
We would have the discussionsand it would go these tangential
places, because I thought hewas saying one thing and he was
saying something totallydifferent.
It's like well, brian said oneday.
You have no idea what it's likebeing left to Greg.
That's also a play on the leftof Bangbook the best
(02:53):
after-action review that's everbeen written about the work that
I did.
Brian came up with it.
I'll pass the baton becauseBrian actually came up with the
title, the concept, and he's theone that chooses all the guests
.
Am I pretty close on that,brian?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, I mean that was basically the concept.
It's kind of like ourconversations we have in the car
and then it started with,obviously, the take I'm driving,
so I'm sitting in the left sideof Greg and his left is hearing
out of his left side is worsethan his right.
It's like these conversationswill go for five minutes and
I'll look at him and go waitwhat?
And he'll look at me like whatthe hell are you talking about?
It's that we had a perfect onewhen we were actually in Ireland
(03:33):
with one of our clients overthere and we're in Dublin and
we're driving to.
It was an amazing trip.
We take an Uber in in themorning to their location it's
right along the River Liffey,downtown Dublin.
It's beautiful and then we kindof sort of stumble our way back
at the end of the day We'd pumpcrawl our way back to the hotel
but on the way in this guy'sexplaining everything, going
(03:55):
over here.
He said, hey, this is themuseum, and over here it was
going to be obviously a Brogue,a thick Irish accent.
And so he's talking and theguy's like, yeah, and you know,
this is the boat over here, andyou know he was talking about
people going to immigrating tothe United States.
And they see this, look onGreg's face, he's kind of
shaking his head.
He's doing this.
Look around him like all right,he's on to something.
And so we get out.
I was like, hey, what's up, man,Everything good.
(04:15):
He's like, hey, that guy'scompletely full of it.
I was like, what are youtalking about?
And he goes that boat that hewas talking about.
There's no way that you can gocatch salmon off that boat.
That's not a fishing boat.
And I said, Greg, that was aboat from the great potato
famine in Ireland they call themthe famine boats where everyone
immigrated over.
(04:35):
There was no fishing going onthere.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And he was like, oh my God, I feel he's ready to let
go, and that's the least stupidthing that I've ever said, and
I'm ready to bump chess withthis guy and go toe to toe over
ridiculous hearing loss.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So those occur very often with Brian and yeah, but
that's where it came from.
And then, of course, to take onon left of bang, which is, you
know, greg wrote the combathunter program for the Marine
Corps and then a couple Marinesliked it so much they wrote a
book about it called left ofbang.
I mean, no, no, no content inthere is theirs, but you know,
there it is.
So I figured, hey, let's, let's, kind of let's, let's take it
(05:09):
off there and people, it'll besort of an inside joke for some
people and so everyone kind ofappreciates and laughs at it.
But that's where.
That's where the concept cameup from.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Well, the great thing about the show too, it's a
knowledge transfer, and that'smy kind.
My belief is that podcastsshould be some sort of knowledge
transfer.
A lot of times you see peoplethat they pop open a podcast,
they start it, they do about twoor three episodes and really
just them and their buddiesinside jokes the whole time.
A lot of the podcasts that stayand have standing power are a
(05:39):
knowledge transfer.
People want to learn something,want to get something out of it
, and that's something we'regoing to talk about today with
with your guys.
Your main focus, which is ourKD called Nourati, is the
knowledge transfer.
So, everybody, make sure youcheck out the left of Greg.
Tons of great information.
But the real conversation I wantto have is right now, and that
is about training, training,training, training.
(06:02):
You know, you know me, I'vecome from the military and
federal government background.
So many different trainingconcepts out there and so many
people not going to say fleecingthe system.
But just because you have acertain background doesn't make
you a specific trainer.
You could be an ex former blah,blah, blah with any three
letter agency or with with anytier one, tier two or tier seven
(06:23):
group, but that doesn'tnecessarily mean it equates to,
for one, that you can trainsomeone, or to that you have the
ability to train, because it'sa lot different having the
experience and then being ableto do that knowledge transfer.
But the other thing is youraudience, and you guys have a
very not really specific officeaudience, but you do deal with
(06:46):
different markets.
So let's get into this.
And what?
First of all, what is our KatieGongerati?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah.
So great question, and I'm theking of non sequitur answers, so
I'll answer just whatever wayto popped up in my head and I'll
tell you hit on something,jason that I want to make sure
that your listeners caught.
One, not everything that youlearn is transferable and two,
the way that the information issticky is essential if you're
(07:13):
trying to train somebody.
I'll give you a very briefpersonal example before I pass
the Brian for the Arcadiadefinition.
So my wife's Shelley, our CEO,the best human behavior profile
I've ever met, former copper,just great, strained, all the
tier one people.
Her parents are in town,unexpectedly drop in for a
couple of weeks but they left.
(07:34):
So I got nothing to complainabout and they're wonderful, but
they're late 80s and they'resetting their ways and things
are very specific.
So when the dad loves cookingand right in the middle of
shaving in the morning beforecoming down and handling further
edge weapons, he cuts himselfquite significantly and because
he's on every blood thinnerknown to humankind, he's like a
(07:57):
Vesuvius, you know.
It's like a sprinkler shootingall over the room.
So the very first thing thatShelley and I do, shelley
applies the pressure and Igrabbed some kerlicks that's
still in my vest still out of mykit from from Afghanistan.
It works perfectly.
We take them over to theemergency room and he gets
treated and the nurse there waslike hey, that was pretty quick
(08:17):
thinking and it's like, no, allgood things like that come from
combat.
So the operating under stress,not being freaked out by the
blood, using quick plot, theactual quick plot, all of those
are great things that areimmediately transferable.
You know what's not thattransferable?
And MRAP using in Kansas todrive down the street to execute
(08:38):
a SWAT team raid, you know, ona less than significant target,
and somebody's going to say,well, how do you know, it's all
a?
Hey, I know what that lookslike.
And that bank vault with abunch of guys with black guns
isn't the type of image thatevery city can support, right?
So I just want to say that thatwhat we try to do is do
knowledge transfer on stuff thatmatters the sky is blue, water
(09:01):
is wet, you know physics,gravity, those type of things
that you can use in everydayparlance, that's street it up so
you don't have to study all thecollegiate level stuff and that
you can immediately apply tomake yourself smarter, faster
and harder to kill.
So that's my preamble, and thenwe turned it into a company
that's called Arcadia right.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, so the name Arcadia Cognomotives, kind of
it's very telling about how weare.
So Arcadia comes from, you know, arcadia back in ancient Greece
, a place where a lot of reallysmart people hung out and
thoughts and really deepthoughts and kind of the Greeks
were a lot of people who firstkind of articulated some of the
stuff and wrote it down.
Now a lot of it existed and,been there, they stole most of
(09:43):
it and just were the ones towrite it down and repeat a lot
of it.
Right, but that's where.
So it's a throwback to, likeGreg said, we stick to elements
of human behavior and humanperformance, specifically
cognitive performance, that areuniversal, that have stood the
test time.
So I'm not going to point somestudy that came out three weeks
ago that everyone's excitedabout, because that's junk.
To me it means nothing.
If it hasn't been around longenough, it's probably it's not
(10:05):
good yet.
And so Arcadia, that's kind ofvery old and very Greek.
And then Cognorati well, wewant to come up with what's a
term for people who, because welike to say we provide a think
with a K and on a thing, a G,right.
So what would be the term forthe people to think about
cognition and metacognition andwhile there wasn't really good
word for it, that went withArcadia, so we made up Cognorati
(10:26):
, right, kind of like Illuminatior something right, the
Cognorati, the people who thinkabout things.
So that's Arcadia Cognorati, sovery old, very Greek, and
something we made up.
So that's the best way, I think, to do it.
And what we really specializein.
What Greg was talking about isthere's universal elements of
human behavior and performancework.
No matter where you are in theworld, no matter what tribe,
country, city you're in, there'sbasic tenets of psychology and
(10:49):
sociology and physiology andneuroscience that transcend
language.
Language has not been aroundvery long as we know it today,
but humans were around a lotlonger before there was language
existed, so we were able tocommunicate and get along in
certain ways.
So we stick to those tenetsthat are universal so you can
learn to articulate them, and alot of them are sort of things
(11:11):
you may know implicitly but youcan't say right.
Especially if you're lawenforcement or security, you
gain a lot of tacit knowledgeand when you see something you
know what it is, you know what'ssomething about, but maybe you
can't transfer that, you can'tfully articulate it, but you
know it when you see it?
Well, we provide a lot ofscientific lexicon for those
things and we call our processHBPRNA human behavior pattern
(11:34):
recognition and analysis.
It's a scientific term forsomething everyone does every
day of their life, right?
If you think back to whenyou're a little kid, you know,
no matter who raised you whetherit's mom, dad and uncle,
grandma, grandpa and they weredown the street when they walked
in the room before they eversaid a word.
You knew whether they're happy,whether they're sad, or you got
to go run and hide becauseyou're going to catch a whooping
, right?
That's human behavior patternrecognition.
(11:54):
You're born in a sense knowinghow to do that.
Now we're getting worse of that.
Worse you know.
The younger you are, the worseyou are because of just over
reliance on technology, lesshuman interaction, right.
But the A part, that analysis.
There's not a lot of goodanalysis out there and what it
typically falls into is you knowa pundit on TV talking about
something and we go intosomething about.
(12:17):
You know well the reason whysomeone would maybe want to do
this, and it's a lot of justconjecture or narrating the TV
with the sound off, where wehave certain principles that we
stick to that, we can say, well,here's the science behind that
person, that why, here's thescience behind it.
And we don't get into, maybe,why people do things.
It's more how and how you canidentify it, because humans
(12:39):
demonstrate their intent.
No matter what that intent is,you're going to demonstrate it
and you can't hide it.
So that's what we focus onthose key indicators and that
are universal, and we transferthat knowledge and you know,
people appreciate the fact thatwe can take the science so you
know, rather than just reading abook and going, wow, that's
cool, where the ones go, no, no,no, here's how you use that,
here's what that means, allright, so I can give you a
(13:01):
pretty good example of that,jason.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Brian and I are going to a client in the Middle East
for our government and thereason that people hired me back
in the day was to find bombmakers, snipers or insider
threats.
That was it.
I mean, that's where CombatHunter came from, that's where
ASAT and Border Hunter andeverything came from.
So Brian and I are going in andwe have a young, smart, dapper
(13:26):
Lieutenant Colonel that's withus and we're having a
conversation going in about Tang, the instant breakfast drink
One.
It's a fuel, and fuel plusoxygen equals heat.
That's like the primary basisfor explosives and folks.
I'm not releasing anything thateverybody doesn't know and you
didn't learn in high school.
But Tang, it becomes a fuelbecause of the high sugar
(13:47):
content that's in it, and so heinterrupts us and he goes hey,
the place we're going to isSaudi Arabia and the likelihood
of anybody on the street havingever heard of Tang is very low.
And I'm like, hey, someconcepts are universal.
So the very first place afterwe landed that we stopped was
Giant Super Panda, which is agreat store, hyper Panda.
Hyper Panda.
That's what you find in,because the Super Panda is one,
(14:09):
but Hyper.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Panda is another.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Okay, and it's even bigger.
And we go in there just to grabsome stuff for our hotel room
because we're going to do sometraining on our coalition
partners.
And we go in and this place isthe size of a Walmart inside and
the first aisle that we come tois Tang, and they had 55 gallon
drum Tang all the way down tothe little individual ones that
you put in your water bottle.
(14:31):
And all I did is turn to theguy and smile and, you know, get
my fat head smug routine.
But the idea is that workseverywhere and everybody knows
that.
See, if you have a concept likeBoyd's Oodle Loop is a great
concept, but Boyd changed itconstantly and Boyd was thinking
and people are still trying torewrite it.
Well, how does that help me ata swim meet?
(14:52):
How does that help me when I'mcamping light of fire, if I
can't use that knowledgespecifically to apply for it?
It's a great thing piece.
It's great when we're sittingaround having a brown liquor and
talking about it, but unlessI'm a fighter pilot, I want not
to use it.
You know, how does that help mebeat a fish at fly fishing?
And those are all the types ofthings that we give?
(15:13):
We give common sense tips andtricks that you can apply at
every place in your life.
That's going to make you saferand harder to kill.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Got a lot to unpack here, a lot.
Okay, I'm making my notes overhere.
There's one thing I want to,greg, I want to backtrack to is,
like you know, when you'retalking about, you know we're
going to go to the WaybackMachine here, about four minutes
, five minutes ago, when you'retalking about, things in the
1980s are different than theyare now I mean, obviously,
(15:43):
bleeding stoppage, completelydifferent than the 1980s,
completely.
And it's still.
You know, when you're talkingquick clot, tourniquets and
everything else, you have toadapt to the training
environment.
You have to adapt to technology.
Yes, things work in the pastSame concepts, same learning
concepts, tactics, techniques,procedures, ttps, you guys can
(16:05):
all put them all down, butmodernize it.
We talked about trainers in thepast.
We talked about people who havethese backgrounds, who may not
necessarily be training.
They've been exposed to a lotof incredible training.
They may be the tip of thespear, they may be the bottom of
the spear, they may have anexpertise in certain areas.
But Stale, you have to keepcurrent on everything that's
(16:29):
going on.
When you talk about quick clock, quick clock came out and like
what the you know, decades ago,but it finally caught on during
g-watt because of the combatapplications.
You always have to keep current, and that's what I like about
you too that's why I wanted tohave you on is staying current
For the audience.
You know, just give a plate,like, if you're gonna be
(16:50):
teaching leos one day and you'regonna be teaching civilians the
other day, it's not the sameclass right no, no.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Program Greg I just before you go because Greg wrote
the combat hunter program forthe Marine Corps and people like
, oh, is that what you teachtoday?
We're like, no, no, no, thecombat hunter program was the
first Civitally for Iraq.
And it's the first iPhone.
If you've never seen an iPhonebefore, it's really, but it's
it's.
It's obsolete.
(17:18):
You can still Capitalize onwhat worked and what didn't.
Continue to refine and getbetter, and that's what I say.
Now is like we're delivering.
What we teach now is the 15 andwe're already working on the 16
and 17 version yep and Jason.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
So in the late 70s, early 80s in cop work there was
a thing called positionalrestraint, hypoxia, and, having
studied physiology Extensively,been a cop for a long time, had
to testify in every court in theland except the Supreme Court.
The idea back then was listen,if you get a really violent
person, there's no problem.
Just get a gurney, put him facedown on the gurney, strap them
(17:51):
in, then you can take them in.
And people were showing up deadand they were going like well,
maybe, maybe that is a good plan, but not in this context.
What happens is we get suchtunnel vision on what's right in
front of us and we don't usethose Applications in the future
.
It's like handguns can't getbetter than they are right now,
rifles can't get better the aimpoint in this, all these other
(18:13):
things.
So stop relying on that and goback to your stance and your
grip.
Go back like how many magazinescan you read about the bullet?
Well, go back to understandingshot placement.
And so what we try to do is wetry to say here's the
fundamentals in science and mathand history that you can build
on, and we don't do TTPs.
(18:34):
So what we do is we offer thoseup to you, and now you can
either Integrate them into yourprogram or change or modify your
program and create your ownTTPs.
I don't know what you do inBrisbane, australia, I don't
know in Frankfurt, germany, withthe tasers or like, and with
the the bar fights are like.
So I'm not going to come inthere and direct you and and
(18:56):
write your program for it.
What we're going to do is we'regoing to say this is how humans
behave, this is the you knowpre event indications.
Here's how intent will manifestitself.
And man, you're the expert onthe ground.
So that's where we try to stayin our lane, and not a lot of
people do that, and you knowthat you run into those folks.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Love me.
Let me tell you something rightthere is because when you teach
a civilian, the reason theyabsorb so much information is
because they're not stuck on anSOP.
They're not stuck on a policydevelopment.
Now, when you look at an SOP,yes, you could have people have
the ground truth developing theSOP and, yes, they could be a
(19:33):
standard ISOP.
But when it was standardoperation, separate standard
operating procedures.
Now, when you turn SOPs intopolicy and you're getting all
these people to approve itwhether it's the department,
feds, state, local, military orwhatever it goes through so many
different processes and by thetime it gets to the approval
rate, it could be anywhere from,like you know, a month to a
(19:55):
year.
Things may have changed, youmay have lessons learned, and
then to go back into an do anamendment or do anything else,
you got to go through anotherprocess.
Right, you, you?
You cannot be stuck in the pastand you can't be stuck in the
present, because a present canchange the future.
That was kind of cool, but hey,but that's what you don't want
to mean.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, and you know you're getting into.
That's why we don't really getinto TTPs, or if they're ones
that we do, can't talk aboutit's because they're they work
in anywhere.
I mean that you brought up.
Shooting is always a greatexample.
You know, everyone loves doinglike the CQB type shooting and
it's sexy and it's fun and it'scool.
(20:35):
And then it's like okay, thisis how you do it this way.
And then now there's a vehicleCQB.
It's like okay, so now it'sgonna change.
And it's now, now there's ashooting in elevators, I'm gonna
teach you elevator CQB.
It's like wait a minute, likeif you can't.
List down to the basic tenantsthat I can use in a number of
situations.
You're, you're.
(20:55):
I have to learn 37 differentways to do something like that.
That's that's so inefficient asa process and doesn't allow me
to just use core fundamentalsthat I can apply in a multitude
of situations.
That's what we stick to.
What are the core concepts thatyou get really, really good at?
You use them anywhere, like I.
You know People come up to melike not only the better at
their job or better at seeingcertain things, or identifying
(21:17):
prevent indicators or or or youknow, making arrests or doing,
finding more on surveillance,whatever it is, they're like.
Hey, like I, I communicate andunderstand my wife and my
children better.
Like yeah you get it.
This is, this is a universallyhuman skill set.
Right, you can use the samething If it, if it's touched or
influenced by a human being.
Right, there are certain thingsyou can learn about that right
(21:39):
that are gonna be advantageousto you in every single situation
.
And the feedback loop isessential.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
So yeah, early on combat hunter.
It was to address Snipersituations again, ieds and
insider threats.
But very first, with snipers,third Marine was taking a lot of
hits.
They called me into a placecalled the infantry.
Immersive trainer said do yourbrand of sorcery?
That's where I first met Brian,met a bunch of the snipers
(22:06):
there, came up with a greatcounter sniper plan to go into
Iraq on the ground and hunt downthe Juba teams, and it worked.
And so then all of a sudden,the Marine Corps goes hey,
there's got to be architecturethere that can work on these
other things.
So that developed now, not afew months later, when the
Marine Corps said well, willnever be in Afghanistan.
So you know that's a differentmission.
The you know the commandantcomes up to me and goes hey, you
(22:29):
still got a bag packed andsends me to Afghanistan.
What do you think it was like?
Hunting Juba in urban terrainand then all of a sudden going
out to a place that wasfarmlands.
I'm in Nebraska and the snipersare taking these long shots
into convoys and the bombs arein culverts.
Well, if you're Training programdoesn't fit Lithuania and
(22:49):
Mexico and downtown Detroit,then broom it because it's
worthless.
You have to have somethingthat's genetic and DNA-based and
everybody immediately gets it.
And the only barrier that we'veever had was language and
through a term translator, we'vetaught in 53 countries, so
that's not a barrier.
You know, there's no culturethat immediately threw it down
and said yet we don't understandthis, it's not gonna work.
(23:12):
And the great thing is, whenyou teach a kid, a kid's gonna
get better.
So you're teaching fly fishingprinciples that the more they
use those principles, they getbetter.
So we don't sit there and holdyour hand through these
situations and fish for you.
We show you.
You know, turn over a rock,understand the etymology.
Hey, tented wings are differentthan a bead head.
Hey, how do you want to do thisin the wind?
(23:32):
And how do you roll cast?
And once you've got thosebasics, then you grow.
You have to grow in yourenvironment, because I'm not
gonna be able to hold your handthe entire time.
And that's learning.
And you mentioned it, jason,that skill transfer.
I'll give you the skill, I'llgive you the tools to grow the
skill.
Then it's up to you to buildthat that into you know, jason,
dough, martial arts or whateveryou want to do with it.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Well, you know, I'm very cognizant of the martial
arts community because I amreally the epitome of tier one
Albert, no, okay, no, the thething is opening someone's mind
and getting out of it.
Yeah, you know what do wealways say in the infantry?
It was always like you know thedifference between an infantry
platoon and like a tier oneoperators?
(24:14):
It's doing the battle drillsand doing the same ones and and
doing them over and over untilyou're an expert at it.
I mean there's different.
Believe me, battle drills arecompletely different Every time
as you modify them and as youlook at them differently.
But opening your mind andlooking at things differently, I
mean we talked before about thesound bites.
You know the, the, the soundbite of being on the news.
(24:37):
You know, back in the day, whenI used to do the news, I became
a sound bite and that's what.
That's how I created theprotectors podcast, because I'm
like you know what?
You need Conversations.
You can't be a sound bite.
You can't just keep focus onone Side of the equation.
You have to open your mind whenyou're looking at different
locations.
And you guys do mobile training.
That's what's really cool.
I want to get into the businessmodel.
(24:59):
Yeah, training available.
But the thing is getting intothese different locations.
New York City is different thanLA, you know.
Miami is different than youknow DC, but then urban,
suburban and rural America isdifferent throughout the whole
states.
So let's get into the type oftraining you're bringing out
there, you know.
(25:19):
Let's talk civilians.
You know I always thought lawenforcement and military and
it's all great for them, butcivilians I want to know what
civilians can get out of thisand what they're looking for.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Yeah, and I'll start off just with something very
simple.
Everybody has a frequency.
Every human being on the faceof the planet has a frequency a
newborn baby as a frequency, asa matter of fact, when, when you
hear the rooster crow in themorning or you hear the birds
chirp just before dawn, that's afrequency and they emit that
frequency.
So bugs know to get started andflowers know to start opening
(25:50):
up, for the sun is on its way.
So if you take a look at thosefrequencies, my job for the rest
of my life is to tune intoJason FM and Make sure that I
keep turning those dials so Ihear you clearly.
Because the biggest problemsthat occur with humans are
between humans, not technology,and technology isn't going to
solve.
It's being able to take a lookat the person in front of you,
(26:13):
understand how full their cupmight be and communicate with
them in a fashion where you canestablish trust and you can
de-escalate.
In the moment, life is ade-escalation from the earliest
man on the face of the planet.
It was de-escalating thesituation to Gain the most out
of the rest of your team so youcould accomplish a mission, and
(26:35):
whether that was taken down asaber-toothed tiger, or having a
baby or, you know, building afire pit or whatever it was.
So we're in that same gametoday, but what's happened is
all this technology is retardedour ability to actually take a
look at our surroundings and go,hey, you know, we've spent so
much time saying, yeah, I want anumber three into a clown's
(26:55):
mouth that we don't understandall the things that went into
building that situation.
So now, where are wesusceptible?
We're susceptible at thedrive-in.
Where are we susceptible?
We're susceptible in a school.
Why?
Because we go to the sameschool every day and we check
the f out.
You get what I'm trying to say.
So we repeat these behaviorsand we abandon or have gone far
enough away from our survivalselves that we forgot how to
(27:18):
deal with them.
So what we focus on is thecritical thinking necessary that
comes from a sense making andproblem solving.
So everything is frequencybased.
The world is screaming at you.
You just have to tune intothose signals and go wow, that's
a signal for fear.
Why is this person in fear?
What's happening in theirenvironment?
That's changing the atmospheres.
(27:39):
That is a love signal.
It's based on oxytocin.
I'm reading that.
Why would that person beflirting with me in this contact
.
If you break it down thatsimply, then life becomes this
ice cube tray and, yeah, thewater spill is kind of into each
different one, so it's not thatclean.
But at the end of the day youcan read frequencies and that
helps you read people and youcan de-escalate any situation.
(28:02):
And this whole thing about dutyto intervene, those are cop
terms.
De-escalation and duty tointervene, now they're human
terms.
That's how the earliest humanshad to get along.
I've got a club, you've got abone, I want that clam shell
that I can turn into a fishinglure, and we have to be able to
negotiate those things.
So duty to intervene is when,you know, oogluck and Mucktar
(28:22):
came in and tried to screwthings up and I had to say, hey,
I got it from here, you know,and I stepped in.
And de-escalation was when wewere all bumping chest because I
want that stegosaurus flank andsomebody came in and said, hey,
wait a minute, let's split itdown the middle and add some
grain and it'll go further, andit became stegosaurus helper.
That's the kind of shit that weteach, because that's how you
step off the X, because, if not,your entire life is standing on
(28:45):
the X waiting for that meteorto come in or waiting for that
dangerous situation to occur?
That's no way to let.
So we're not hyper vigilant.
We teach people to think theirway out of situation.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
They used to do the color coded.
Remember that.
Oh, you gotta be conditionedthis, conditioned that,
conditioned this.
But the thing, the problem withthat is you're saying, okay,
I'm going to downtown DC Cause Ialways say DC, cause I live out
there I'm going to goimmediately into code orange and
I'm going to be ready to go andblah, blah, blah.
I walk out of my house today.
There's a car parked down theroad.
(29:16):
Something doesn't seem right.
That is frequencies.
They're birds trippingdifferently.
You know, my dogs bark.
I mean, it could be.
My dogs are going crazy.
My dog has differentfrequencies.
When my dog's barking, whenwhen anybody's coming to the
door, it is nuts.
Both dogs are crazy.
A dog walking down the road, adifferent bark.
(29:38):
There's different things Stirin the middle of the night.
The dog barks a little bitdifferent, different.
I like how you're saying these,from frequencies it's.
And when you're on a road andyou know, because you've been
driving for a long time, like me, if I look and I see a car and
I see the guy's head shift, Iknow he's going to not use his
blinker and he's going to pullinto my lane Exactly.
(29:58):
You're aware it's not always.
You know my hand is going toshift a little bit.
I'm going to be ready to drawon fire.
No, it's how you know what.
You just got to be prepared.
You got to understand thesituations you're getting into.
And when you're talking aboutduty to intervene, yes, law
enforcement does have it, butyou as a civilian, if you have
(30:18):
the tools and capability, areyou just have the capability to
be a great witness?
Know what your availability isof the tools that you have on
hand.
A lot of people don't realizethat if something's going on,
maybe the best thing they coulddo is be a great witness.
Get the cell phone out, takesome pictures, call 911.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe like draw a fire, engage, get
(30:41):
moved to cover.
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yep, and you brought up a good point actually about
the whole.
You know Cooper's color codesand these, and people take this
stuff too far Is this?
This is some sort of statebetween this many heartbeats and
you know you, you're this iswhat that fall, and that's not
what was meant by any of this.
Even that was people trying tomake sense of it and put words
to to some sort of physiologicalor psychological arousal, and
(31:03):
that's fine, and maybe thathelps us understand that that's
not how life works, right, your,your.
No story ever starts, jason,with with the.
So there I was, I had a greatnight's sleep, I got up, I did
my workout, I've had a wonderfulbreakfast and I'm standing
there drinking my cup of coffeeand I'm watching the situation.
Nothing happens like that.
(31:24):
That's not when it occurs.
Why?
Because that's when you're atyour most alert, automatically
and in the thing is unconscious.
Awareness is far faster and fareasier to do than you actively
trying to.
You know, look for things inyour environment.
Now, you need to have a littlebit of training to understand
(31:44):
how to look for things, how toobserve anomalies or incongruent
behavior.
But the problem is a lot ofpeople try to boil it down or
they pass off.
Oh, here's this checklist orthese are some things you need.
It's like, no, that that worksfor that specific situation and
if I ever run into that specificsituation there, it is for me,
but it's not going to be likethat.
I need to understand how tobreak down the elements of an
(32:06):
attack, an ambush, whatever thesituation is, or a negotiation,
and I can need to be able totake those elements and spread
them all out and see them in anyenvironment to go, hey, that
could mean this next time,because I saw that over here one
time and it led to this.
And trying to be proactively,doing that constantly is
exhausting and it'sunsustainable and it leads to
(32:29):
what's called a non-eventfeedback loop, where you just
condition yourself to thinkyou're stay vigilant and nothing
ever happens.
You never see anything.
Well, as long as I stay in thisstate, I won't well, and you'll
stop seeing things.
You'll actually miss things inyour environment.
So just being present in thatmoment, like you're talking
about, and understanding, I'mlooking for incongruent behavior
in my environment and then Ihave to figure out what to do
(32:49):
with that.
What does that mean?
So what you know?
Like you could give a greatexample of the guy driving the
person looking over.
Okay, I should probably take myfoot off the gas and get a
little distance, because he'sgonna come over without
signaling, he's gonna jump.
You can tell by someone who'sdriving whether they're lost or
not.
We've all seen that before.
So what do you do with that?
Well, you're gonna wanna backoff, you're gonna wanna go
around, you're gonna wanna makea decision.
(33:10):
So that's with everything right, and that's everything we do is
obviously about predictiveanalysis what's likely gonna
happen next, so you can make aninformed decision sooner.
So you're not waiting, you'renot going around, and it's not
react to this, and when thishappens, I'll do this.
And when this happens, it'slike all right, so you're just
gonna wait.
You know you're gonna walk outyour house and wait till
something happens and react toit Sounds like it's like maybe
(33:31):
not the best plan of discovery,learning through life.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
So let's talk about no, no, it's spot on, brian and
Jason.
Let's talk about a civilianexample of duty and intervene.
So folks don't think this isjust for military and just for
police.
Look, I'm known as the pioneerof situation awareness for
humans okay, not for computers.
And what do people most stealfrom me?
Situation awareness why?
Because it's easy and it's thefirst one on the list.
(33:56):
Stop with the situationawareness, because I'll give you
two examples where it won'thelp at all.
Number one duty to intervene.
You've got a kid that's ateenager, that's in school and
he's on the computer late atnight but you haven't gone in to
see the type of sites that he'swatching.
And guess what?
He gets hooked up with someband that is now sextorting him,
saying, hey, I'm a girl, sendthis photo.
(34:18):
Or I'm a boy, send this photo.
And now they're saying, hey,I've got all your computer lists
and I'm gonna send it to yourclassmates and everybody else.
And then the kid because thekid feels that they can't talk
to anybody, can't do anythingabout it, ends up committing
suicide.
It happened a week ago, right,you look in your news happened a
month ago, happened two yearsago.
Everywhere it's happening.
Why?
Because duty to intervene isapparent.
I don't wanna talk about yousending sex pics to other people
(34:42):
in your class.
It's hard for me to say thatyou're aroused at this age group
and that these things titillateyou and would get you into
trouble.
We have to stop that.
The duty to intervene is parentor peers or somebody that you
trust in your situation, thatuncle or priest or copper that
can come in and help you offthat ledge.
We don't do that as a society.
(35:02):
I'll give you one more.
The grants when they were here,are part of this thing where
you figure out your family tree.
I guess when you get closer todeath, that's one of the things.
That's really huge, because mybrother, brian's doing it the
same way.
Well, do you know what folksDuty and intervene?
There's scams associated withthat, because you're giving up
where you live, who your parentsare, what your date of birth is
(35:23):
, all these other things andthat's all that.
People need to start their ownwebsites and bank and now
they're calling you and tryingto extort you from money.
I'm not saying life is a scam.
Life is wonderful, I have anamazing life.
But you know what?
I use those frequencies thatare out there to avoid and
mitigate danger.
And that's the thing.
Everything in the world isdanger or opportunity, and I
(35:45):
wanna know before it happens, soI don't have to drive on that
freeway, I can take the exit, Ican pull over at the rest stop
and let that crazy driver go outahead of me.
And that's not what we're doing.
What we're doing is buildinggates and fences and up armoring
our stuff and getting a highercapacity magazine.
Listen, that type of reaction.
It's not going to stop allthreats.
(36:07):
So the greatest thing is learnhow to think your way out of
those situations, and that's ourarchitecture.
What we teach, the basic coursethat we teach for anybody, the
most basic white level usercourse, let's call it is three
days.
Why?
Because in those three days youhave to show up to the course
and understand what the problemis.
Then, once you understand whatthe problem is, we have to be
able to categorize and build anarchitecture for how you think,
(36:30):
because guess what?
Humans don't think the way thatyou think you do.
And once you understand thatthere's limitations to human
performance and that your eyeand your brain can lie to you,
you can get out of thatsituation.
And then the last day is allpractical application you have,
from the afternoon of the secondday to the graduation on the
third day.
You're using it.
You're using this newly mintedskill in real situations that
(36:52):
you're likely to encounter.
So, whether you're a new mom, orwhether you work in HR, or you
work at a bank or you clean upat the hotel that's down the
street, the idea is buildingthat fundamental architecture
for being able to sense, make,predict problems before they
occur and then come in there andproblem solve.
That that's critical thinking.
(37:13):
What's advanced criticalthinking?
The more you do it, the betteryou get at it, because your
brain learns, and so we'rehelping you train your
individual brain and for everyhuman that attends a course,
that might be a different cue orsomething different that makes
it sticky.
That's why it takes a littlewhile.
And you know what?
Is it expensive?
Yeah, it's expensive, but itain't more expensive than a new
pair of tactical boots for yourkid or for that new gosh damn
(37:37):
knife that you're gonna buy, youknow how-.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Whoa, whoa, it doesn't matter out there, whoa.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Okay, well, you know what I'm talking about, jason,
because that you know.
People go hey, we don't havethat in our budget.
But we are training, you know,to this new light source,
intermittent laser nonsense.
I think tech is grand.
I'm just saying measure thatwith your enthusiasm for
building this, the mostimportant thing on the battle
(38:03):
space, that's six inches foryour ears.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Believe me, you hit up a con.
One thing that I'm verypositive about, one thing I know
for sure, is that the nameprotector has gone beyond law
enforcement and militaryAbsolutely.
So just bring up the civilianapplications to this.
The civilian world are nowtheir own protectors, protectors
that are family, protectors oftheir house, their castle.
Now, when you talk about thesame type of training and then
(38:29):
you put law enforcement into it,you guys tailor make your law
enforcement courses for thejurisdictions you go to.
I know this because I talked toAbsolutely Different people
like that is because you have tothink about the policies and
not just policies, but beingbacked by their agency but also
the media optics of where you'regoing.
All this stuff adds up to thatsplit microsecond that you're
(38:52):
gonna have to make a decision.
And when you make a decision, amillion things go through your
mind as a law enforcementofficer, and one of them is am I
gonna be sued?
Am I gonna lose my job?
Is my family gonna lose theirhouse?
And probably in there is yeah,I'm gonna die or I could die but
(39:13):
all these other things are inthere too.
Before it was like fight orflight I'm gonna live or they're
gonna die.
But now it comes out to oh mygosh, if I pull my gun, if I
just pull my gun, I have to fillout a report.
I gotta do this, I gotta dothat.
What if I just pull out my ass?
Well, if I do that, then it's aconsidered use of force.
What if I just talk to them?
(39:34):
What if I try to use just softtechniques but you're going up
against a blitter or someone whohas the drop on you because
you're already hesitating.
That is critical when you'retalking about training and
talking about developing yourmind.
The Academy for most lawenforcement can be anywhere from
what?
12 to 18 to 24 weeks.
(39:55):
And in there is law, law, law.
In there is like touchy-feelystuff for two days, which is
great, but it's more of like.
Mental health is not in there.
Maybe it'll throw a dare to inthat.
In there, cognitive abilitiesno, all you're thinking to do is
gonna do some scenarios Shoot,don't shoot, Shoot, don't shoot.
(40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
And it becomes very procedural and it's almost as if
we're gonna put you throughthese scenarios and you get to
pick from a menu.
Given this situation, you haveoption 1A.
Under A, you have subset 1, 2,and 3.
But, as you know, that's nothow life is and so it's become
(40:39):
so procedural and it's all abouttactics, techniques and
procedures and what's approvedand what isn't.
What you should do in thissituation is that people are
already coming in, like you said, what do I do if this happens?
What do I do if it?
And we're like okay, slow timedown, hit rewind on this video.
It's like there's a ton ofthese video breakdowns out there
and just in my opinion, they'remostly terrible and they all
(40:59):
start with what.
Okay, here's when that happensand you're like whoa, hang on,
man, like what was the reasonyou approached this vehicle?
What was the reason you madethis decision here?
If you could have told this,maybe you would have noticed
this here and realized, ah, thisis one of those situations.
I either need to back up or getsome backup here, because this
is already escalating now and wehaven't even made contact and
(41:22):
our whole thing is aboutthinking your way out of the
situation and how to get left ofbang and how to gave yourself
the gift of time and distance.
That's the whole point of thisis.
It's critical thinking and,like you said, we don't.
It's all reaction.
It's react to this, react tothis, react to that, and
everything changes with TTPs andI was talking to even Todd Fox
(41:43):
about this.
He came out to our course.
He's awesome.
He's been on your show and he'sunbelievable what he does and
he does a lot of stuffspecifically with law
enforcement.
He's really into Jiu Jitsu butreally, really applied in a law
enforcement setting and he'sincredible.
He knows the law and all thatstuff.
He's a total subject matterexpert and he's like well, but
just a few years ago it was hey,mobility is survivability.
You don't ever go to the ground.
(42:05):
And now it's well, everything'sgonna go to the ground.
It's like well, if you have thatattitude like you know what I
mean, it would be create our own.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Okay, I got a pause right there.
The best, the best memes andthis is kind of getting off
topic is now every time.
Every time there's like asomeone making fun of BJJ, it's
like all of a sudden, likeyou're in the, you're in the
field and they go automatically.
They go to the ground Like thetop.
And they try to do it like it'slike but, someone says some
things like you know you're,you're the little brother.
(42:33):
Remember, like when you're alittle brother and you get on
the ground, you just kind ofkick your brothers, yeah, like
stay back.
But no, it's true, when you'regoing into these different
situations and you brought up akeyword a keyword is backup.
You know, I just took a tripout to South Carolina and I went
to visit some small policeagencies out there One, maybe
two people covering a townduring a shift.
(42:54):
You're your own backup andthat's, that's transcends
everything.
Nowadays, you know, granted themilitary, you could have
massive backups.
You know, at NYPD they call theblue wall or the blue brother
or something like that.
Something happens, every cop inthe city will be there.
But if you're on the middle ofnowhere and you're from one of
civilian, you are your ownbackup.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
You are, you're on the top and you're in.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
That changes your decision, jason.
It's.
It's the gift of time anddistance.
So, first of all, coming from amajor metropolitan police
agency and then coming to amid-level agency in Colorado and
then having to deal withGunnison and Hinsdale County,
where the elk outnumber thehumans, okay, the difference
isn't just that you have nobackup.
Backup is an hour and 45minutes away under ideal
(43:42):
circumstances.
It's also that you have tohandle every aspect of the case.
You're writing the affidavit forthe arrest warrant, you're
writing the report and thentestifying in court and
following the evidence, and youknow, safeguarding the chain of
custody.
You're doing it all.
So now you've got all of thoseexternal stressors that around
you.
You're dealing with a vehiclethat's probably seen better life
(44:05):
because it's a hand me downfrom another police agency.
You know some of the gear thatyou're carrying you have to buy,
so it's to get the time anddistance.
You know what you find out.
You find out that communicatingwith people is a lot easier
than shooting them and thatbacking out of the situation and
allowing a person to save faceis a lot better than going into
the bar with that asp and juststart swinging for the fences.
(44:26):
The idea is police work haschanged.
Humans are the same humans, butguess what?
There's a whole different thinggoing on inside of their head,
where they're like yeah, I knowit's a law, but I really don't
believe in the way that it'sbeing applied in this situation.
And you're sitting there and theperson's taking a video with
their phone and they're sayingthis is the truth.
(44:47):
You know not this thing that'shappening right in front of me.
So what you have to do is youhave to get the two training and
education.
Look, would you go to anophthalmologist for a procedure
on surgery in your eye thathasn't had training in the last
10, 12, 15 years?
Would you go to that oldcountry doctor that doesn't know
how to, you know, do some stintfor some hard thing?
The idea is that we try to callourselves a profession in law
(45:10):
enforcement.
Guess what?
We don't want to keep theprofessional standards, and now
it's a pendulum.
Well, you know what's going toget out of this Policy.
If we write better policies,we're going to have better cops
are on the street.
Now.
Training's the answer.
Training changes behavior, andthe idea of us using a light and
siren to get to a place quicker, to die, is ridiculous.
(45:30):
And we got to come off that Xtoo.
No situation, very fewsituations.
My kids choking and officerdown in front of me.
Very few of those situationsare going to have me react more
irrationally.
And what did we learn fromcombat on those?
What did the Marines.
Learn from the house, from hell.
Let's keep sending people intothe breach until you know
(45:52):
there's 10 times the number ofinjured and then we'll finally
get the person.
No, there's a better way.
Humans love to communicate.
They want to tell you theirstory.
We got to just back off alittle bit and stop pressing so
hard.
And that once.
Look as a caution negotiator.
I would come in in anysituation that I was where the
person was armed.
I'd say, give me 60 seconds andI'll change the trajectory of
(46:13):
life.
And the person would go yeah, Ialready kind of got that
because I got a gun in my mouthand I go yeah, but if you take
that gun out and give me 58seconds, I can change what's
going to happen tonight.
And he goes yeah, but if I pullthe trigger, you know what
we're doing.
We're communicating.
He wasn't communicating beforeI got there and now I got him
talking.
And the more I got him talking,the less he's shooting and the
less like he's going to shoothimself.
That's humans.
(46:34):
We can figure out other humansand we're really good at it.
It's just we haven't used thoseskills in a while.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Okay, Greg, I got you right there.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
I got you.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Because you brought up.
I'm going to backtrack to the30 minutes ago, when you brought
up technology.
You brought up the fancy lasers, the dots on guns, this and
that and everything else.
Tools are great.
It's great to have the propertools.
If I have put a red dot on mypistol, maybe I'll shoot better.
You're going to put on someoptics on a rifle.
You could shoot farther becauseyou could see farther.
(47:03):
They're tools, yeah, but humantalking to someone is the
biggest, the best tool you have.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
It's apropocal in almost every situation, almost
every situation.
And, believe me, there aresituations where you do have to
shoot first and then later onyou're going to answer some
questions.
But overall, having thatdemeanor to be able to talk to
every different person, based onwho they are, what their
(47:32):
background is, is different.
Every we know, like I talked toyou guys a lot different than I
talked to someone you know.
You know one of my buddies ormy brother.
I'm always like when my brotherI'm like bro.
But, like you know, with youguys it's like this I know we're
going to be talking about this,we're going to be talking about
that, similar backgrounds hereand there.
But when you're going into abar and some guy might be
slightly intoxicated, some ladymight be slightly intoxicated,
(47:54):
you amp up, they amp up,everybody amps up.
You're the.
You don't have backup, andthere's two or three people
you're talking to.
You're not going to lower yourdefenses, you're not going to
bow down to them, but you'regoing to have a different type
of way to talk to them.
It is something that's learned,but it's learned through
experience and it's it can belearned through training,
(48:14):
putting people in thesescenarios, getting them used to
opening their mouth.
We do rely a lot on technology.
Communication is different now.
It's a little short burst withtext and everything.
Talking to people is key.
You're first on the job, oreven a civilian.
You know civilians have theoption.
You can avoid conflict.
(48:35):
A lot of times you can saydon't amp up the road, rage,
drive away, hit the brakes, getout of there.
Long enforcement.
You don't have that opportunity, you don't have the access.
You can't just disengage whenthings just don't feel right.
I mean you can, but you know, alot of times you have that duty
to intervene.
So, yeah, I really like theidea of this training.
I really want to take atraining with you guys because
(48:57):
now that I'm, now that I'm not,now that I am a full civilian,
it's different.
I don't have the luxury ofhaving a badge Right, not that
there's a luxury, but yeah, Idon't.
I don't have that, that abilityto.
You know, I'm now full,bonafide civilian.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Jason.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
I'm actually one.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
I'm going to tell you I'm going to send you info for
our Liberty University course.
It's in Virginia next month.
If you're, if you're, if you'rearound, I'll send you info.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Let me throw one at you, brian and I.
No other case, let's saywithout attribution.
Guys in his house, a guy in aninja style motorcycles going up
and down the street, racing upand down.
Racing up and down guy getspissed, goes out.
All of a sudden you hear somenoise out in the street and he
comes back in the house and hesets the gun down in front of
(49:44):
his wife at the kitchen tableand says you need to call the
police and I need a lawyer.
What happened in those fewseconds outside is the situation
accelerated.
There was a gun involved.
That seemed like the rightsolution at the time, and now,
when we relax and we're thinkingabout it, it was not the right
solution.
Civilians need the trainingbecause something that is going
(50:05):
to seem like the most importantlife changing event that's right
in front of you right now isn't.
And tomorrow, even 9-11, theday after you could go and buy
an Arby's and there was TV showson and I could go and get gas
in my car and as horrible asthat was that those thousands of
people died, the sun came up inthe east and set in the west,
and that's the shit that we tryto think about.
(50:26):
Is that you can prioritize yourlife and your family.
The same training that I woulduse execute in a high-risk
felony search warrant.
It's the same stuff that I usewhen I get gas at the 7-11 or
when I go to church.
I mean it has to be, and sothat's why, as a civilian, you
need it more probably than someof those operators.
And, jason, you know that yourskills atrophy the longer you're
(50:47):
not on the mat too.
So you know, I mean you're onlyas good as the last training
event that you went to We'd loveto see.
A cool thing about a place likeLiberty is not only do we
associate with the academichigher education stuff, but it's
free to LE first responders,courts, corrections.
So that's our way of givingback.
And also, you know, brian, andI have our book that's coming
(51:08):
out, and you're going to be onthe leading edge of that because
both of us have your book andwe love it.
The idea is, the book that webuilt isn't all this war story
horseshit.
It's a textbook.
It's how to.
How do you put these thingstogether?
How do you mix your paintbefore you put it on a wall?
Do you need a primer?
You know what kind of spatulais best to fill that nail hole,
(51:29):
but we just do it in the guiseof human performance, human
behavior and cognition.
So we're excited about that aswell and I just want to tell you
it's great to be on your showbecause you talk about the stuff
that really matters and I knowyou probably can't tell, but we
excited about that.
We love to talk about thattopic.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
You know, mia, I could talk.
I think we're going to makethis into a part two.
I think I really need to comeback on.
I want to talk more about thelaw enforcement applications.
I also do want to talk aboutintegrating this type of
training into, like theprotectors foundation, getting
some training out there to thesesmall departments out there.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
There's so much more that you need in training than
is just with the firearm.
There is so much more.
I mean fire, I believe me, Ilove it, I love shooting, I
shoot all the time, competition,everything else like that but
there's so much more to openingyour mind than just pulling the
trigger.
So, gentlemen, I appreciatecoming on.
Arcadia Cognorati, let me getthat website out there.
(52:28):
I pull it up, that's reallyeasy, arcadiacognoraticom, and
we'll have one If you could sayyou're going to want to follow
that link If you can spell it.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
That's the first hard to think of.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
I think right.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
It's.
I don't know.
I could probably do Alpha Romeo, charlie, alpha, delta, india,
alpha, charlie, oscar Goal forNovember Echo Romeo, alpha,
tango, indiacom.
Boom Fire, mission Fire.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
Well done, that's the thing that's learning that and
how to say human behavior.
Pattern recognition andanalysis is the most difficult
thing you have to learn.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
They're gaining back in it.
Hey, welcome to the protectors podcast.
I think we are an episode 450something.
It's a lot of episodes.
I'm excited to have these guyson.
I was on their podcast to leftGreg not that long ago at great
conversations.
Greg Williams, brian Marinwelcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thanks for having us on, man.
It was great talking to you.
We got some great feedback fromwhen you were on our episode
and people liked it.
They kind of got where we weregoing with and they appreciated
your insight.
Oh, actually that reminds meand we'll talk offline, but I do
have someone that might want toreach out to you, Some
questions about something, so wecan get into that later.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
But I just it's not an attorney.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
No, it's not, hey, that's good, I'm like hey, I
didn't do it.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
You're being served, Jason.
That's what it is.
Just meet me at the hallway.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Listen, I'm in an undisclosed location somewhere
in the United States, in abunker, so they can't find it.
There's no way.
But that is one thing aboutyour podcast it's very in-depth,
very thorough.
You guys do your researchbefore you have a guest on.
You have a lot of relevantdiscussions about what's going
on today.
Where did the concept for apodcast come for you both?
How did you link up to do apodcast?
(01:26):
Obviously, you have thebusiness item together, but
that's such a great question.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
First of all, kudos to you, because we absolutely
love your podcast and I suggestit everywhere I go.
That's not just a chat.
One of the episodes you did waswith Dale Dye.
We're fanboys of Dale Todd Fox,we're fanboys Peter Forsselley,
the ATF guy.
(01:51):
You do a lot of great stuff.
The protectors episodes werejust honored to be on there.
Specifically to answer the firstpart of that question, marin
and I travel all the time, inaddition to being a business
partner and senior VP ofoperations and a great friend
and a lover and all the otherthings that Brian has become
over the years.
(02:11):
That's a joke, but it's a goodone for those that know us.
What happens is that Brian andI are trapped in a rental car
hotel in a hallway before we goon in the green room and we have
these discussions.
Sometimes when we joked all thetime that listen, we should
capture some of this.
This is wonderful stuff,because I'm completely deaf and
(02:33):
Brian's only partially deaf.
Brian's always driving therental slide.
We would have the discussionsand it would go these tangential
places, because I thought hewas saying one thing and he was
saying something totallydifferent.
It's like well, brian said oneday.
You have no idea what it's likebeing left to Greg.
That's also a play on the leftof Bangbook the best
(02:53):
after-action review that's everbeen written about the work that
I did.
Brian came up with it.
I'll pass the baton becauseBrian actually came up with the
title, the concept, and he's theone that chooses all the guests
.
Am I pretty close on that,brian?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, I mean that was basically the concept.
It's kind of like ourconversations we have in the car
and then it started with,obviously, the take I'm driving,
so I'm sitting in the left sideof Greg and his left is hearing
out of his left side is worsethan his right.
It's like these conversationswill go for five minutes and
I'll look at him and go waitwhat?
And he'll look at me like whatthe hell are you talking about?
It's that we had a perfect onewhen we were actually in Ireland
(03:33):
with one of our clients overthere and we're in Dublin and
we're driving to.
It was an amazing trip.
We take an Uber in in themorning to their location it's
right along the River Liffey,downtown Dublin.
It's beautiful and then we kindof sort of stumble our way back
at the end of the day We'd pumpcrawl our way back to the hotel
but on the way in this guy'sexplaining everything, going
(03:55):
over here.
He said, hey, this is themuseum, and over here it was
going to be obviously a Brogue,a thick Irish accent.
And so he's talking and theguy's like, yeah, and you know,
this is the boat over here, andyou know he was talking about
people going to immigrating tothe United States.
And they see this, look onGreg's face, he's kind of
shaking his head.
He's doing this.
Look around him like all right,he's on to something.
And so we get out.
I was like, hey, what's up, man,Everything good.
(04:15):
He's like, hey, that guy'scompletely full of it.
I was like, what are youtalking about?
And he goes that boat that hewas talking about.
There's no way that you can gocatch salmon off that boat.
That's not a fishing boat.
And I said, Greg, that was aboat from the great potato
famine in Ireland they call themthe famine boats where everyone
immigrated over.
(04:35):
There was no fishing going onthere.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And he was like, oh my God, I feel he's ready to let
go, and that's the least stupidthing that I've ever said, and
I'm ready to bump chess withthis guy and go toe to toe over
ridiculous hearing loss.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So those occur very often with Brian and yeah, but
that's where it came from.
And then, of course, to take onon left of bang, which is, you
know, greg wrote the combathunter program for the Marine
Corps and then a couple Marinesliked it so much they wrote a
book about it called left ofbang.
I mean, no, no, no content inthere is theirs, but you know,
there it is.
So I figured, hey, let's, let's, kind of let's, let's take it
(05:09):
off there and people, it'll besort of an inside joke for some
people and so everyone kind ofappreciates and laughs at it.
But that's where.
That's where the concept cameup from.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Well, the great thing about the show too, it's a
knowledge transfer, and that'smy kind.
My belief is that podcastsshould be some sort of knowledge
transfer.
A lot of times you see peoplethat they pop open a podcast,
they start it, they do about twoor three episodes and really
just them and their buddiesinside jokes the whole time.
A lot of the podcasts that stayand have standing power are a
(05:39):
knowledge transfer.
People want to learn something,want to get something out of it
, and that's something we'regoing to talk about today with
with your guys.
Your main focus, which is ourKD called Nourati, is the
knowledge transfer.
So, everybody, make sure youcheck out the left of Greg.
Tons of great information.
But the real conversation I wantto have is right now, and that
is about training, training,training, training.
(06:02):
You know, you know me, I'vecome from the military and
federal government background.
So many different trainingconcepts out there and so many
people not going to say fleecingthe system.
But just because you have acertain background doesn't make
you a specific trainer.
You could be an ex former blah,blah, blah with any three
letter agency or with with anytier one, tier two or tier seven
(06:23):
group, but that doesn'tnecessarily mean it equates to,
for one, that you can trainsomeone, or to that you have the
ability to train, because it'sa lot different having the
experience and then being ableto do that knowledge transfer.
But the other thing is youraudience, and you guys have a
very not really specific officeaudience, but you do deal with
(06:46):
different markets.
So let's get into this.
And what?
First of all, what is our KatieGongerati?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah.
So great question, and I'm theking of non sequitur answers, so
I'll answer just whatever wayto popped up in my head and I'll
tell you hit on something,jason that I want to make sure
that your listeners caught.
One, not everything that youlearn is transferable and two,
the way that the information issticky is essential if you're
(07:13):
trying to train somebody.
I'll give you a very briefpersonal example before I pass
the Brian for the Arcadiadefinition.
So my wife's Shelley, our CEO,the best human behavior profile
I've ever met, former copper,just great, strained, all the
tier one people.
Her parents are in town,unexpectedly drop in for a
couple of weeks but they left.
(07:34):
So I got nothing to complainabout and they're wonderful, but
they're late 80s and they'resetting their ways and things
are very specific.
So when the dad loves cookingand right in the middle of
shaving in the morning beforecoming down and handling further
edge weapons, he cuts himselfquite significantly and because
he's on every blood thinnerknown to humankind, he's like a
(07:57):
Vesuvius, you know.
It's like a sprinkler shootingall over the room.
So the very first thing thatShelley and I do, shelley
applies the pressure and Igrabbed some kerlicks that's
still in my vest still out of mykit from from Afghanistan.
It works perfectly.
We take them over to theemergency room and he gets
treated and the nurse there waslike hey, that was pretty quick
(08:17):
thinking and it's like, no, allgood things like that come from
combat.
So the operating under stress,not being freaked out by the
blood, using quick plot, theactual quick plot, all of those
are great things that areimmediately transferable.
You know what's not thattransferable?
And MRAP using in Kansas todrive down the street to execute
(08:38):
a SWAT team raid, you know, ona less than significant target,
and somebody's going to say,well, how do you know, it's all
a?
Hey, I know what that lookslike.
And that bank vault with abunch of guys with black guns
isn't the type of image thatevery city can support, right?
So I just want to say that thatwhat we try to do is do
knowledge transfer on stuff thatmatters the sky is blue, water
(09:01):
is wet, you know physics,gravity, those type of things
that you can use in everydayparlance, that's street it up so
you don't have to study all thecollegiate level stuff and that
you can immediately apply tomake yourself smarter, faster
and harder to kill.
So that's my preamble, and thenwe turned it into a company
that's called Arcadia right.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, so the name Arcadia Cognomotives, kind of
it's very telling about how weare.
So Arcadia comes from, you know, arcadia back in ancient Greece
, a place where a lot of reallysmart people hung out and
thoughts and really deepthoughts and kind of the Greeks
were a lot of people who firstkind of articulated some of the
stuff and wrote it down.
Now a lot of it existed and,been there, they stole most of
(09:43):
it and just were the ones towrite it down and repeat a lot
of it.
Right, but that's where.
So it's a throwback to, likeGreg said, we stick to elements
of human behavior and humanperformance, specifically
cognitive performance, that areuniversal, that have stood the
test time.
So I'm not going to point somestudy that came out three weeks
ago that everyone's excitedabout, because that's junk.
To me it means nothing.
If it hasn't been around longenough, it's probably it's not
(10:05):
good yet.
And so Arcadia, that's kind ofvery old and very Greek.
And then Cognorati well, wewant to come up with what's a
term for people who, because welike to say we provide a think
with a K and on a thing, a G,right.
So what would be the term forthe people to think about
cognition and metacognition andwhile there wasn't really good
word for it, that went withArcadia, so we made up Cognorati
(10:26):
, right, kind of like Illuminatior something right, the
Cognorati, the people who thinkabout things.
So that's Arcadia Cognorati, sovery old, very Greek, and
something we made up.
So that's the best way, I think, to do it.
And what we really specializein.
What Greg was talking about isthere's universal elements of
human behavior and performancework.
No matter where you are in theworld, no matter what tribe,
country, city you're in, there'sbasic tenets of psychology and
(10:49):
sociology and physiology andneuroscience that transcend
language.
Language has not been aroundvery long as we know it today,
but humans were around a lotlonger before there was language
existed, so we were able tocommunicate and get along in
certain ways.
So we stick to those tenetsthat are universal so you can
learn to articulate them, and alot of them are sort of things
(11:11):
you may know implicitly but youcan't say right.
Especially if you're lawenforcement or security, you
gain a lot of tacit knowledgeand when you see something you
know what it is, you know what'ssomething about, but maybe you
can't transfer that, you can'tfully articulate it, but you
know it when you see it?
Well, we provide a lot ofscientific lexicon for those
things and we call our processHBPRNA human behavior pattern
(11:34):
recognition and analysis.
It's a scientific term forsomething everyone does every
day of their life, right?
If you think back to whenyou're a little kid, you know,
no matter who raised you whetherit's mom, dad and uncle,
grandma, grandpa and they weredown the street when they walked
in the room before they eversaid a word.
You knew whether they're happy,whether they're sad, or you got
to go run and hide becauseyou're going to catch a whooping
, right?
That's human behavior patternrecognition.
(11:54):
You're born in a sense knowinghow to do that.
Now we're getting worse of that.
Worse you know.
The younger you are, the worseyou are because of just over
reliance on technology, lesshuman interaction, right.
But the A part, that analysis.
There's not a lot of goodanalysis out there and what it
typically falls into is you knowa pundit on TV talking about
something and we go intosomething about.
(12:17):
You know well the reason whysomeone would maybe want to do
this, and it's a lot of justconjecture or narrating the TV
with the sound off, where wehave certain principles that we
stick to that, we can say, well,here's the science behind that
person, that why, here's thescience behind it.
And we don't get into, maybe,why people do things.
It's more how and how you canidentify it, because humans
(12:39):
demonstrate their intent.
No matter what that intent is,you're going to demonstrate it
and you can't hide it.
So that's what we focus onthose key indicators and that
are universal, and we transferthat knowledge and you know,
people appreciate the fact thatwe can take the science so you
know, rather than just reading abook and going, wow, that's
cool, where the ones go, no, no,no, here's how you use that,
here's what that means, allright, so I can give you a
(13:01):
pretty good example of that,jason.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Brian and I are going to a client in the Middle East
for our government and thereason that people hired me back
in the day was to find bombmakers, snipers or insider
threats.
That was it.
I mean, that's where CombatHunter came from, that's where
ASAT and Border Hunter andeverything came from.
So Brian and I are going in andwe have a young, smart, dapper
(13:26):
Lieutenant Colonel that's withus and we're having a
conversation going in about Tang, the instant breakfast drink
One.
It's a fuel, and fuel plusoxygen equals heat.
That's like the primary basisfor explosives and folks.
I'm not releasing anything thateverybody doesn't know and you
didn't learn in high school.
But Tang, it becomes a fuelbecause of the high sugar
(13:47):
content that's in it, and so heinterrupts us and he goes hey,
the place we're going to isSaudi Arabia and the likelihood
of anybody on the street havingever heard of Tang is very low.
And I'm like, hey, someconcepts are universal.
So the very first place afterwe landed that we stopped was
Giant Super Panda, which is agreat store, hyper Panda.
Hyper Panda.
That's what you find in,because the Super Panda is one,
(14:09):
but Hyper.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Panda is another.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Okay, and it's even bigger.
And we go in there just to grabsome stuff for our hotel room
because we're going to do sometraining on our coalition
partners.
And we go in and this place isthe size of a Walmart inside and
the first aisle that we come tois Tang, and they had 55 gallon
drum Tang all the way down tothe little individual ones that
you put in your water bottle.
(14:31):
And all I did is turn to theguy and smile and, you know, get
my fat head smug routine.
But the idea is that workseverywhere and everybody knows
that.
See, if you have a concept likeBoyd's Oodle Loop is a great
concept, but Boyd changed itconstantly and Boyd was thinking
and people are still trying torewrite it.
Well, how does that help me ata swim meet?
(14:52):
How does that help me when I'mcamping light of fire, if I
can't use that knowledgespecifically to apply for it?
It's a great thing piece.
It's great when we're sittingaround having a brown liquor and
talking about it, but unlessI'm a fighter pilot, I want not
to use it.
You know, how does that help mebeat a fish at fly fishing?
And those are all the types ofthings that we give?
(15:13):
We give common sense tips andtricks that you can apply at
every place in your life.
That's going to make you saferand harder to kill.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Got a lot to unpack here, a lot.
Okay, I'm making my notes overhere.
There's one thing I want to,greg, I want to backtrack to is,
like you know, when you'retalking about, you know we're
going to go to the WaybackMachine here, about four minutes
, five minutes ago, when you'retalking about, things in the
1980s are different than theyare now I mean, obviously,
(15:43):
bleeding stoppage, completelydifferent than the 1980s,
completely.
And it's still.
You know, when you're talkingquick clot, tourniquets and
everything else, you have toadapt to the training
environment.
You have to adapt to technology.
Yes, things work in the pastSame concepts, same learning
concepts, tactics, techniques,procedures, ttps, you guys can
(16:05):
all put them all down, butmodernize it.
We talked about trainers in thepast.
We talked about people who havethese backgrounds, who may not
necessarily be training.
They've been exposed to a lotof incredible training.
They may be the tip of thespear, they may be the bottom of
the spear, they may have anexpertise in certain areas.
But Stale, you have to keepcurrent on everything that's
(16:29):
going on.
When you talk about quick clock, quick clock came out and like
what the you know, decades ago,but it finally caught on during
g-watt because of the combatapplications.
You always have to keep current, and that's what I like about
you too that's why I wanted tohave you on is staying current
For the audience.
You know, just give a plate,like, if you're gonna be
(16:50):
teaching leos one day and you'regonna be teaching civilians the
other day, it's not the sameclass right no, no.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Program Greg I just before you go because Greg wrote
the combat hunter program forthe Marine Corps and people like
, oh, is that what you teachtoday?
We're like, no, no, no, thecombat hunter program was the
first Civitally for Iraq.
And it's the first iPhone.
If you've never seen an iPhonebefore, it's really, but it's
it's.
It's obsolete.
(17:18):
You can still Capitalize onwhat worked and what didn't.
Continue to refine and getbetter, and that's what I say.
Now is like we're delivering.
What we teach now is the 15 andwe're already working on the 16
and 17 version yep and Jason.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
So in the late 70s, early 80s in cop work there was
a thing called positionalrestraint, hypoxia, and, having
studied physiology Extensively,been a cop for a long time, had
to testify in every court in theland except the Supreme Court.
The idea back then was listen,if you get a really violent
person, there's no problem.
Just get a gurney, put him facedown on the gurney, strap them
(17:51):
in, then you can take them in.
And people were showing up deadand they were going like well,
maybe, maybe that is a good plan, but not in this context.
What happens is we get suchtunnel vision on what's right in
front of us and we don't usethose Applications in the future
.
It's like handguns can't getbetter than they are right now,
rifles can't get better the aimpoint in this, all these other
(18:13):
things.
So stop relying on that and goback to your stance and your
grip.
Go back like how many magazinescan you read about the bullet?
Well, go back to understandingshot placement.
And so what we try to do is wetry to say here's the
fundamentals in science and mathand history that you can build
on, and we don't do TTPs.
(18:34):
So what we do is we offer thoseup to you, and now you can
either Integrate them into yourprogram or change or modify your
program and create your ownTTPs.
I don't know what you do inBrisbane, australia, I don't
know in Frankfurt, germany, withthe tasers or like, and with
the the bar fights are like.
So I'm not going to come inthere and direct you and and
(18:56):
write your program for it.
What we're going to do is we'regoing to say this is how humans
behave, this is the you knowpre event indications.
Here's how intent will manifestitself.
And man, you're the expert onthe ground.
So that's where we try to stayin our lane, and not a lot of
people do that, and you knowthat you run into those folks.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Love me.
Let me tell you something rightthere is because when you teach
a civilian, the reason theyabsorb so much information is
because they're not stuck on anSOP.
They're not stuck on a policydevelopment.
Now, when you look at an SOP,yes, you could have people have
the ground truth developing theSOP and, yes, they could be a
(19:33):
standard ISOP.
But when it was standardoperation, separate standard
operating procedures.
Now, when you turn SOPs intopolicy and you're getting all
these people to approve itwhether it's the department,
feds, state, local, military orwhatever it goes through so many
different processes and by thetime it gets to the approval
rate, it could be anywhere from,like you know, a month to a
(19:55):
year.
Things may have changed, youmay have lessons learned, and
then to go back into an do anamendment or do anything else,
you got to go through anotherprocess.
Right, you, you?
You cannot be stuck in the pastand you can't be stuck in the
present, because a present canchange the future.
That was kind of cool, but hey,but that's what you don't want
to mean.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, and you know you're getting into.
That's why we don't really getinto TTPs, or if they're ones
that we do, can't talk aboutit's because they're they work
in anywhere.
I mean that you brought up.
Shooting is always a greatexample.
You know, everyone loves doinglike the CQB type shooting and
it's sexy and it's fun and it'scool.
(20:35):
And then it's like okay, thisis how you do it this way.
And then now there's a vehicleCQB.
It's like okay, so now it'sgonna change.
And it's now, now there's ashooting in elevators, I'm gonna
teach you elevator CQB.
It's like wait a minute, likeif you can't.
List down to the basic tenantsthat I can use in a number of
situations.
You're, you're.
(20:55):
I have to learn 37 differentways to do something like that.
That's that's so inefficient asa process and doesn't allow me
to just use core fundamentalsthat I can apply in a multitude
of situations.
That's what we stick to.
What are the core concepts thatyou get really, really good at?
You use them anywhere, like I.
You know People come up to melike not only the better at
their job or better at seeingcertain things, or identifying
(21:17):
prevent indicators or or or youknow, making arrests or doing,
finding more on surveillance,whatever it is, they're like.
Hey, like I, I communicate andunderstand my wife and my
children better.
Like yeah you get it.
This is, this is a universallyhuman skill set.
Right, you can use the samething If it, if it's touched or
influenced by a human being.
Right, there are certain thingsyou can learn about that right
(21:39):
that are gonna be advantageousto you in every single situation
.
And the feedback loop isessential.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
So yeah, early on combat hunter.
It was to address Snipersituations again, ieds and
insider threats.
But very first, with snipers,third Marine was taking a lot of
hits.
They called me into a placecalled the infantry.
Immersive trainer said do yourbrand of sorcery?
That's where I first met Brian,met a bunch of the snipers
(22:06):
there, came up with a greatcounter sniper plan to go into
Iraq on the ground and hunt downthe Juba teams, and it worked.
And so then all of a sudden,the Marine Corps goes hey,
there's got to be architecturethere that can work on these
other things.
So that developed now, not afew months later, when the
Marine Corps said well, willnever be in Afghanistan.
So you know that's a differentmission.
The you know the commandantcomes up to me and goes hey, you
(22:29):
still got a bag packed andsends me to Afghanistan.
What do you think it was like?
Hunting Juba in urban terrainand then all of a sudden going
out to a place that wasfarmlands.
I'm in Nebraska and the snipersare taking these long shots
into convoys and the bombs arein culverts.
Well, if you're Training programdoesn't fit Lithuania and
(22:49):
Mexico and downtown Detroit,then broom it because it's
worthless.
You have to have somethingthat's genetic and DNA-based and
everybody immediately gets it.
And the only barrier that we'veever had was language and
through a term translator, we'vetaught in 53 countries, so
that's not a barrier.
You know, there's no culturethat immediately threw it down
and said yet we don't understandthis, it's not gonna work.
(23:12):
And the great thing is, whenyou teach a kid, a kid's gonna
get better.
So you're teaching fly fishingprinciples that the more they
use those principles, they getbetter.
So we don't sit there and holdyour hand through these
situations and fish for you.
We show you.
You know, turn over a rock,understand the etymology.
Hey, tented wings are differentthan a bead head.
Hey, how do you want to do thisin the wind?
(23:32):
And how do you roll cast?
And once you've got thosebasics, then you grow.
You have to grow in yourenvironment, because I'm not
gonna be able to hold your handthe entire time.
And that's learning.
And you mentioned it, jason,that skill transfer.
I'll give you the skill, I'llgive you the tools to grow the
skill.
Then it's up to you to buildthat that into you know, jason,
dough, martial arts or whateveryou want to do with it.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Well, you know, I'm very cognizant of the martial
arts community because I amreally the epitome of tier one
Albert, no, okay, no, the thething is opening someone's mind
and getting out of it.
Yeah, you know what do wealways say in the infantry?
It was always like you know thedifference between an infantry
platoon and like a tier oneoperators?
(24:14):
It's doing the battle drillsand doing the same ones and and
doing them over and over untilyou're an expert at it.
I mean there's different.
Believe me, battle drills arecompletely different Every time
as you modify them and as youlook at them differently.
But opening your mind andlooking at things differently, I
mean we talked before about thesound bites.
You know the, the, the soundbite of being on the news.
(24:37):
You know, back in the day, whenI used to do the news, I became
a sound bite and that's what.
That's how I created theprotectors podcast, because I'm
like you know what?
You need Conversations.
You can't be a sound bite.
You can't just keep focus onone Side of the equation.
You have to open your mind whenyou're looking at different
locations.
And you guys do mobile training.
That's what's really cool.
I want to get into the businessmodel.
(24:59):
Yeah, training available.
But the thing is getting intothese different locations.
New York City is different thanLA, you know.
Miami is different than youknow DC, but then urban,
suburban and rural America isdifferent throughout the whole
states.
So let's get into the type oftraining you're bringing out
there, you know.
(25:19):
Let's talk civilians.
You know I always thought lawenforcement and military and
it's all great for them, butcivilians I want to know what
civilians can get out of thisand what they're looking for.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Yeah, and I'll start off just with something very
simple.
Everybody has a frequency.
Every human being on the faceof the planet has a frequency a
newborn baby as a frequency, asa matter of fact, when, when you
hear the rooster crow in themorning or you hear the birds
chirp just before dawn, that's afrequency and they emit that
frequency.
So bugs know to get started andflowers know to start opening
(25:50):
up, for the sun is on its way.
So if you take a look at thosefrequencies, my job for the rest
of my life is to tune intoJason FM and Make sure that I
keep turning those dials so Ihear you clearly.
Because the biggest problemsthat occur with humans are
between humans, not technology,and technology isn't going to
solve.
It's being able to take a lookat the person in front of you,
(26:13):
understand how full their cupmight be and communicate with
them in a fashion where you canestablish trust and you can
de-escalate.
In the moment, life is ade-escalation from the earliest
man on the face of the planet.
It was de-escalating thesituation to Gain the most out
of the rest of your team so youcould accomplish a mission, and
(26:35):
whether that was taken down asaber-toothed tiger, or having a
baby or, you know, building afire pit or whatever it was.
So we're in that same gametoday, but what's happened is
all this technology is retardedour ability to actually take a
look at our surroundings and go,hey, you know, we've spent so
much time saying, yeah, I want anumber three into a clown's
(26:55):
mouth that we don't understandall the things that went into
building that situation.
So now, where are wesusceptible?
We're susceptible at thedrive-in.
Where are we susceptible?
We're susceptible in a school.
Why?
Because we go to the sameschool every day and we check
the f out.
You get what I'm trying to say.
So we repeat these behaviorsand we abandon or have gone far
enough away from our survivalselves that we forgot how to
(27:18):
deal with them.
So what we focus on is thecritical thinking necessary that
comes from a sense making andproblem solving.
So everything is frequencybased.
The world is screaming at you.
You just have to tune intothose signals and go wow, that's
a signal for fear.
Why is this person in fear?
What's happening in theirenvironment?
That's changing the atmospheres.
(27:39):
That is a love signal.
It's based on oxytocin.
I'm reading that.
Why would that person beflirting with me in this contact
.
If you break it down thatsimply, then life becomes this
ice cube tray and, yeah, thewater spill is kind of into each
different one, so it's not thatclean.
But at the end of the day youcan read frequencies and that
helps you read people and youcan de-escalate any situation.
(28:02):
And this whole thing about dutyto intervene, those are cop
terms.
De-escalation and duty tointervene, now they're human
terms.
That's how the earliest humanshad to get along.
I've got a club, you've got abone, I want that clam shell
that I can turn into a fishinglure, and we have to be able to
negotiate those things.
So duty to intervene is when,you know, oogluck and Mucktar
(28:22):
came in and tried to screwthings up and I had to say, hey,
I got it from here, you know,and I stepped in.
And de-escalation was when wewere all bumping chest because I
want that stegosaurus flank andsomebody came in and said, hey,
wait a minute, let's split itdown the middle and add some
grain and it'll go further, andit became stegosaurus helper.
That's the kind of shit that weteach, because that's how you
step off the X, because, if not,your entire life is standing on
(28:45):
the X waiting for that meteorto come in or waiting for that
dangerous situation to occur?
That's no way to let.
So we're not hyper vigilant.
We teach people to think theirway out of situation.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
They used to do the color coded.
Remember that.
Oh, you gotta be conditionedthis, conditioned that,
conditioned this.
But the thing, the problem withthat is you're saying, okay,
I'm going to downtown DC Cause Ialways say DC, cause I live out
there I'm going to goimmediately into code orange and
I'm going to be ready to go andblah, blah, blah.
I walk out of my house today.
There's a car parked down theroad.
(29:16):
Something doesn't seem right.
That is frequencies.
They're birds trippingdifferently.
You know, my dogs bark.
I mean, it could be.
My dogs are going crazy.
My dog has differentfrequencies.
When my dog's barking, whenwhen anybody's coming to the
door, it is nuts.
Both dogs are crazy.
A dog walking down the road, adifferent bark.
(29:38):
There's different things Stirin the middle of the night.
The dog barks a little bitdifferent, different.
I like how you're saying these,from frequencies it's.
And when you're on a road andyou know, because you've been
driving for a long time, like me, if I look and I see a car and
I see the guy's head shift, Iknow he's going to not use his
blinker and he's going to pullinto my lane Exactly.
(29:58):
You're aware it's not always.
You know my hand is going toshift a little bit.
I'm going to be ready to drawon fire.
No, it's how you know what.
You just got to be prepared.
You got to understand thesituations you're getting into.
And when you're talking aboutduty to intervene, yes, law
enforcement does have it, butyou as a civilian, if you have
(30:18):
the tools and capability, areyou just have the capability to
be a great witness?
Know what your availability isof the tools that you have on
hand.
A lot of people don't realizethat if something's going on,
maybe the best thing they coulddo is be a great witness.
Get the cell phone out, takesome pictures, call 911.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe like draw a fire, engage, get
(30:41):
moved to cover.
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yep, and you brought up a good point actually about
the whole.
You know Cooper's color codesand these, and people take this
stuff too far Is this?
This is some sort of statebetween this many heartbeats and
you know you, you're this iswhat that fall, and that's not
what was meant by any of this.
Even that was people trying tomake sense of it and put words
to to some sort of physiologicalor psychological arousal, and
(31:03):
that's fine, and maybe thathelps us understand that that's
not how life works, right, your,your.
No story ever starts, jason,with with the.
So there I was, I had a greatnight's sleep, I got up, I did
my workout, I've had a wonderfulbreakfast and I'm standing
there drinking my cup of coffeeand I'm watching the situation.
Nothing happens like that.
(31:24):
That's not when it occurs.
Why?
Because that's when you're atyour most alert, automatically
and in the thing is unconscious.
Awareness is far faster and fareasier to do than you actively
trying to.
You know, look for things inyour environment.
Now, you need to have a littlebit of training to understand
(31:44):
how to look for things, how toobserve anomalies or incongruent
behavior.
But the problem is a lot ofpeople try to boil it down or
they pass off.
Oh, here's this checklist orthese are some things you need.
It's like, no, that that worksfor that specific situation and
if I ever run into that specificsituation there, it is for me,
but it's not going to be likethat.
I need to understand how tobreak down the elements of an
(32:06):
attack, an ambush, whatever thesituation is, or a negotiation,
and I can need to be able totake those elements and spread
them all out and see them in anyenvironment to go, hey, that
could mean this next time,because I saw that over here one
time and it led to this.
And trying to be proactively,doing that constantly is
exhausting and it'sunsustainable and it leads to
(32:29):
what's called a non-eventfeedback loop, where you just
condition yourself to thinkyou're stay vigilant and nothing
ever happens.
You never see anything.
Well, as long as I stay in thisstate, I won't well, and you'll
stop seeing things.
You'll actually miss things inyour environment.
So just being present in thatmoment, like you're talking
about, and understanding, I'mlooking for incongruent behavior
in my environment and then Ihave to figure out what to do
(32:49):
with that.
What does that mean?
So what you know?
Like you could give a greatexample of the guy driving the
person looking over.
Okay, I should probably take myfoot off the gas and get a
little distance, because he'sgonna come over without
signaling, he's gonna jump.
You can tell by someone who'sdriving whether they're lost or
not.
We've all seen that before.
So what do you do with that?
Well, you're gonna wanna backoff, you're gonna wanna go
around, you're gonna wanna makea decision.
(33:10):
So that's with everything right, and that's everything we do is
obviously about predictiveanalysis what's likely gonna
happen next, so you can make aninformed decision sooner.
So you're not waiting, you'renot going around, and it's not
react to this, and when thishappens, I'll do this.
And when this happens, it'slike all right, so you're just
gonna wait.
You know you're gonna walk outyour house and wait till
something happens and react toit Sounds like it's like maybe
(33:31):
not the best plan of discovery,learning through life.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
So let's talk about no, no, it's spot on, brian and
Jason.
Let's talk about a civilianexample of duty and intervene.
So folks don't think this isjust for military and just for
police.
Look, I'm known as the pioneerof situation awareness for
humans okay, not for computers.
And what do people most stealfrom me?
Situation awareness why?
Because it's easy and it's thefirst one on the list.
(33:56):
Stop with the situationawareness, because I'll give you
two examples where it won'thelp at all.
Number one duty to intervene.
You've got a kid that's ateenager, that's in school and
he's on the computer late atnight but you haven't gone in to
see the type of sites that he'swatching.
And guess what?
He gets hooked up with someband that is now sextorting him,
saying, hey, I'm a girl, sendthis photo.
(34:18):
Or I'm a boy, send this photo.
And now they're saying, hey,I've got all your computer lists
and I'm gonna send it to yourclassmates and everybody else.
And then the kid because thekid feels that they can't talk
to anybody, can't do anythingabout it, ends up committing
suicide.
It happened a week ago, right,you look in your news happened a
month ago, happened two yearsago.
Everywhere it's happening.
Why?
Because duty to intervene isapparent.
I don't wanna talk about yousending sex pics to other people
(34:42):
in your class.
It's hard for me to say thatyou're aroused at this age group
and that these things titillateyou and would get you into
trouble.
We have to stop that.
The duty to intervene is parentor peers or somebody that you
trust in your situation, thatuncle or priest or copper that
can come in and help you offthat ledge.
We don't do that as a society.
(35:02):
I'll give you one more.
The grants when they were here,are part of this thing where
you figure out your family tree.
I guess when you get closer todeath, that's one of the things.
That's really huge, because mybrother, brian's doing it the
same way.
Well, do you know what folksDuty and intervene?
There's scams associated withthat, because you're giving up
where you live, who your parentsare, what your date of birth is
(35:23):
, all these other things andthat's all that.
People need to start their ownwebsites and bank and now
they're calling you and tryingto extort you from money.
I'm not saying life is a scam.
Life is wonderful, I have anamazing life.
But you know what?
I use those frequencies thatare out there to avoid and
mitigate danger.
And that's the thing.
Everything in the world isdanger or opportunity, and I
(35:45):
wanna know before it happens, soI don't have to drive on that
freeway, I can take the exit, Ican pull over at the rest stop
and let that crazy driver go outahead of me.
And that's not what we're doing.
What we're doing is buildinggates and fences and up armoring
our stuff and getting a highercapacity magazine.
Listen, that type of reaction.
It's not going to stop allthreats.
(36:07):
So the greatest thing is learnhow to think your way out of
those situations, and that's ourarchitecture.
What we teach, the basic coursethat we teach for anybody, the
most basic white level usercourse, let's call it is three
days.
Why?
Because in those three days youhave to show up to the course
and understand what the problemis.
Then, once you understand whatthe problem is, we have to be
able to categorize and build anarchitecture for how you think,
(36:30):
because guess what?
Humans don't think the way thatyou think you do.
And once you understand thatthere's limitations to human
performance and that your eyeand your brain can lie to you,
you can get out of thatsituation.
And then the last day is allpractical application you have,
from the afternoon of the secondday to the graduation on the
third day.
You're using it.
You're using this newly mintedskill in real situations that
(36:52):
you're likely to encounter.
So, whether you're a new mom, orwhether you work in HR, or you
work at a bank or you clean upat the hotel that's down the
street, the idea is buildingthat fundamental architecture
for being able to sense, make,predict problems before they
occur and then come in there andproblem solve.
That that's critical thinking.
(37:13):
What's advanced criticalthinking?
The more you do it, the betteryou get at it, because your
brain learns, and so we'rehelping you train your
individual brain and for everyhuman that attends a course,
that might be a different cue orsomething different that makes
it sticky.
That's why it takes a littlewhile.
And you know what?
Is it expensive?
Yeah, it's expensive, but itain't more expensive than a new
pair of tactical boots for yourkid or for that new gosh damn
(37:37):
knife that you're gonna buy, youknow how-.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Whoa, whoa, it doesn't matter out there, whoa.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Okay, well, you know what I'm talking about, jason,
because that you know.
People go hey, we don't havethat in our budget.
But we are training, you know,to this new light source,
intermittent laser nonsense.
I think tech is grand.
I'm just saying measure thatwith your enthusiasm for
building this, the mostimportant thing on the battle
(38:03):
space, that's six inches foryour ears.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Believe me, you hit up a con.
One thing that I'm verypositive about, one thing I know
for sure, is that the nameprotector has gone beyond law
enforcement and militaryAbsolutely.
So just bring up the civilianapplications to this.
The civilian world are nowtheir own protectors, protectors
that are family, protectors oftheir house, their castle.
Now, when you talk about thesame type of training and then
(38:29):
you put law enforcement into it,you guys tailor make your law
enforcement courses for thejurisdictions you go to.
I know this because I talked toAbsolutely Different people
like that is because you have tothink about the policies and
not just policies, but beingbacked by their agency but also
the media optics of where you'regoing.
All this stuff adds up to thatsplit microsecond that you're
(38:52):
gonna have to make a decision.
And when you make a decision, amillion things go through your
mind as a law enforcementofficer, and one of them is am I
gonna be sued?
Am I gonna lose my job?
Is my family gonna lose theirhouse?
And probably in there is yeah,I'm gonna die or I could die but
(39:13):
all these other things are inthere too.
Before it was like fight orflight I'm gonna live or they're
gonna die.
But now it comes out to oh mygosh, if I pull my gun, if I
just pull my gun, I have to fillout a report.
I gotta do this, I gotta dothat.
What if I just pull out my ass?
Well, if I do that, then it's aconsidered use of force.
What if I just talk to them?
(39:34):
What if I try to use just softtechniques but you're going up
against a blitter or someone whohas the drop on you because
you're already hesitating.
That is critical when you'retalking about training and
talking about developing yourmind.
The Academy for most lawenforcement can be anywhere from
what?
12 to 18 to 24 weeks.
(39:55):
And in there is law, law, law.
In there is like touchy-feelystuff for two days, which is
great, but it's more of like.
Mental health is not in there.
Maybe it'll throw a dare to inthat.
In there, cognitive abilitiesno, all you're thinking to do is
gonna do some scenarios Shoot,don't shoot, Shoot, don't shoot.
(40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
And it becomes very procedural and it's almost as if
we're gonna put you throughthese scenarios and you get to
pick from a menu.
Given this situation, you haveoption 1A.
Under A, you have subset 1, 2,and 3.
But, as you know, that's nothow life is and so it's become
(40:39):
so procedural and it's all abouttactics, techniques and
procedures and what's approvedand what isn't.
What you should do in thissituation is that people are
already coming in, like you said, what do I do if this happens?
What do I do if it?
And we're like okay, slow timedown, hit rewind on this video.
It's like there's a ton ofthese video breakdowns out there
and just in my opinion, they'remostly terrible and they all
(40:59):
start with what.
Okay, here's when that happensand you're like whoa, hang on,
man, like what was the reasonyou approached this vehicle?
What was the reason you madethis decision here?
If you could have told this,maybe you would have noticed
this here and realized, ah, thisis one of those situations.
I either need to back up or getsome backup here, because this
is already escalating now and wehaven't even made contact and
(41:22):
our whole thing is aboutthinking your way out of the
situation and how to get left ofbang and how to gave yourself
the gift of time and distance.
That's the whole point of thisis.
It's critical thinking and,like you said, we don't.
It's all reaction.
It's react to this, react tothis, react to that, and
everything changes with TTPs andI was talking to even Todd Fox
(41:43):
about this.
He came out to our course.
He's awesome.
He's been on your show and he'sunbelievable what he does and
he does a lot of stuffspecifically with law
enforcement.
He's really into Jiu Jitsu butreally, really applied in a law
enforcement setting and he'sincredible.
He knows the law and all thatstuff.
He's a total subject matterexpert and he's like well, but
just a few years ago it was hey,mobility is survivability.
You don't ever go to the ground.
(42:05):
And now it's well, everything'sgonna go to the ground.
It's like well, if you have thatattitude like you know what I
mean, it would be create our own.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Okay, I got a pause right there.
The best, the best memes andthis is kind of getting off
topic is now every time.
Every time there's like asomeone making fun of BJJ, it's
like all of a sudden, likeyou're in the, you're in the
field and they go automatically.
They go to the ground Like thetop.
And they try to do it like it'slike but, someone says some
things like you know you're,you're the little brother.
(42:33):
Remember, like when you're alittle brother and you get on
the ground, you just kind ofkick your brothers, yeah, like
stay back.
But no, it's true, when you'regoing into these different
situations and you brought up akeyword a keyword is backup.
You know, I just took a tripout to South Carolina and I went
to visit some small policeagencies out there One, maybe
two people covering a townduring a shift.
(42:54):
You're your own backup andthat's, that's transcends
everything.
Nowadays, you know, granted themilitary, you could have
massive backups.
You know, at NYPD they call theblue wall or the blue brother
or something like that.
Something happens, every cop inthe city will be there.
But if you're on the middle ofnowhere and you're from one of
civilian, you are your ownbackup.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
You are, you're on the top and you're in.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
That changes your decision, jason.
It's.
It's the gift of time anddistance.
So, first of all, coming from amajor metropolitan police
agency and then coming to amid-level agency in Colorado and
then having to deal withGunnison and Hinsdale County,
where the elk outnumber thehumans, okay, the difference
isn't just that you have nobackup.
Backup is an hour and 45minutes away under ideal
(43:42):
circumstances.
It's also that you have tohandle every aspect of the case.
You're writing the affidavit forthe arrest warrant, you're
writing the report and thentestifying in court and
following the evidence, and youknow, safeguarding the chain of
custody.
You're doing it all.
So now you've got all of thoseexternal stressors that around
you.
You're dealing with a vehiclethat's probably seen better life
(44:05):
because it's a hand me downfrom another police agency.
You know some of the gear thatyou're carrying you have to buy,
so it's to get the time anddistance.
You know what you find out.
You find out that communicatingwith people is a lot easier
than shooting them and thatbacking out of the situation and
allowing a person to save faceis a lot better than going into
the bar with that asp and juststart swinging for the fences.
(44:26):
The idea is police work haschanged.
Humans are the same humans, butguess what?
There's a whole different thinggoing on inside of their head,
where they're like yeah, I knowit's a law, but I really don't
believe in the way that it'sbeing applied in this situation.
And you're sitting there and theperson's taking a video with
their phone and they're sayingthis is the truth.
(44:47):
You know not this thing that'shappening right in front of me.
So what you have to do is youhave to get the two training and
education.
Look, would you go to anophthalmologist for a procedure
on surgery in your eye thathasn't had training in the last
10, 12, 15 years?
Would you go to that oldcountry doctor that doesn't know
how to, you know, do some stintfor some hard thing?
The idea is that we try to callourselves a profession in law
(45:10):
enforcement.
Guess what?
We don't want to keep theprofessional standards, and now
it's a pendulum.
Well, you know what's going toget out of this Policy.
If we write better policies,we're going to have better cops
are on the street.
Now.
Training's the answer.
Training changes behavior, andthe idea of us using a light and
siren to get to a place quicker, to die, is ridiculous.
(45:30):
And we got to come off that Xtoo.
No situation, very fewsituations.
My kids choking and officerdown in front of me.
Very few of those situationsare going to have me react more
irrationally.
And what did we learn fromcombat on those?
What did the Marines.
Learn from the house, from hell.
Let's keep sending people intothe breach until you know
(45:52):
there's 10 times the number ofinjured and then we'll finally
get the person.
No, there's a better way.
Humans love to communicate.
They want to tell you theirstory.
We got to just back off alittle bit and stop pressing so
hard.
And that once.
Look as a caution negotiator.
I would come in in anysituation that I was where the
person was armed.
I'd say, give me 60 seconds andI'll change the trajectory of
(46:13):
life.
And the person would go yeah, Ialready kind of got that
because I got a gun in my mouthand I go yeah, but if you take
that gun out and give me 58seconds, I can change what's
going to happen tonight.
And he goes yeah, but if I pullthe trigger, you know what
we're doing.
We're communicating.
He wasn't communicating beforeI got there and now I got him
talking.
And the more I got him talking,the less he's shooting and the
less like he's going to shoothimself.
That's humans.
(46:34):
We can figure out other humansand we're really good at it.
It's just we haven't used thoseskills in a while.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Okay, Greg, I got you right there.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
I got you.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Because you brought up.
I'm going to backtrack to the30 minutes ago, when you brought
up technology.
You brought up the fancy lasers, the dots on guns, this and
that and everything else.
Tools are great.
It's great to have the propertools.
If I have put a red dot on mypistol, maybe I'll shoot better.
You're going to put on someoptics on a rifle.
You could shoot farther becauseyou could see farther.
(47:03):
They're tools, yeah, but humantalking to someone is the
biggest, the best tool you have.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
It's apropocal in almost every situation, almost
every situation.
And, believe me, there aresituations where you do have to
shoot first and then later onyou're going to answer some
questions.
But overall, having thatdemeanor to be able to talk to
every different person, based onwho they are, what their
(47:32):
background is, is different.
Every we know, like I talked toyou guys a lot different than I
talked to someone you know.
You know one of my buddies ormy brother.
I'm always like when my brotherI'm like bro.
But, like you know, with youguys it's like this I know we're
going to be talking about this,we're going to be talking about
that, similar backgrounds hereand there.
But when you're going into abar and some guy might be
slightly intoxicated, some ladymight be slightly intoxicated,
(47:54):
you amp up, they amp up,everybody amps up.
You're the.
You don't have backup, andthere's two or three people
you're talking to.
You're not going to lower yourdefenses, you're not going to
bow down to them, but you'regoing to have a different type
of way to talk to them.
It is something that's learned,but it's learned through
experience and it's it can belearned through training,
(48:14):
putting people in thesescenarios, getting them used to
opening their mouth.
We do rely a lot on technology.
Communication is different now.
It's a little short burst withtext and everything.
Talking to people is key.
You're first on the job, oreven a civilian.
You know civilians have theoption.
You can avoid conflict.
(48:35):
A lot of times you can saydon't amp up the road, rage,
drive away, hit the brakes, getout of there.
Long enforcement.
You don't have that opportunity, you don't have the access.
You can't just disengage whenthings just don't feel right.
I mean you can, but you know, alot of times you have that duty
to intervene.
So, yeah, I really like theidea of this training.
I really want to take atraining with you guys because
(48:57):
now that I'm, now that I'm not,now that I am a full civilian,
it's different.
I don't have the luxury ofhaving a badge Right, not that
there's a luxury, but yeah, Idon't.
I don't have that, that abilityto.
You know, I'm now full,bonafide civilian.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Jason.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
I'm actually one.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
I'm going to tell you I'm going to send you info for
our Liberty University course.
It's in Virginia next month.
If you're, if you're, if you'rearound, I'll send you info.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Let me throw one at you, brian and I.
No other case, let's saywithout attribution.
Guys in his house, a guy in aninja style motorcycles going up
and down the street, racing upand down.
Racing up and down guy getspissed, goes out.
All of a sudden you hear somenoise out in the street and he
comes back in the house and hesets the gun down in front of
(49:44):
his wife at the kitchen tableand says you need to call the
police and I need a lawyer.
What happened in those fewseconds outside is the situation
accelerated.
There was a gun involved.
That seemed like the rightsolution at the time, and now,
when we relax and we're thinkingabout it, it was not the right
solution.
Civilians need the trainingbecause something that is going
(50:05):
to seem like the most importantlife changing event that's right
in front of you right now isn't.
And tomorrow, even 9-11, theday after you could go and buy
an Arby's and there was TV showson and I could go and get gas
in my car and as horrible asthat was that those thousands of
people died, the sun came up inthe east and set in the west,
and that's the shit that we tryto think about.
(50:26):
Is that you can prioritize yourlife and your family.
The same training that I woulduse execute in a high-risk
felony search warrant.
It's the same stuff that I usewhen I get gas at the 7-11 or
when I go to church.
I mean it has to be, and sothat's why, as a civilian, you
need it more probably than someof those operators.
And, jason, you know that yourskills atrophy the longer you're
(50:47):
not on the mat too.
So you know, I mean you're onlyas good as the last training
event that you went to We'd loveto see.
A cool thing about a place likeLiberty is not only do we
associate with the academichigher education stuff, but it's
free to LE first responders,courts, corrections.
So that's our way of givingback.
And also, you know, brian, andI have our book that's coming
(51:08):
out, and you're going to be onthe leading edge of that because
both of us have your book andwe love it.
The idea is, the book that webuilt isn't all this war story
horseshit.
It's a textbook.
It's how to.
How do you put these thingstogether?
How do you mix your paintbefore you put it on a wall?
Do you need a primer?
You know what kind of spatulais best to fill that nail hole,
(51:29):
but we just do it in the guiseof human performance, human
behavior and cognition.
So we're excited about that aswell and I just want to tell you
it's great to be on your showbecause you talk about the stuff
that really matters and I knowyou probably can't tell, but we
excited about that.
We love to talk about thattopic.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
You know, mia, I could talk.
I think we're going to makethis into a part two.
I think I really need to comeback on.
I want to talk more about thelaw enforcement applications.
I also do want to talk aboutintegrating this type of
training into, like theprotectors foundation, getting
some training out there to thesesmall departments out there.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
There's so much more that you need in training than
is just with the firearm.
There is so much more.
I mean fire, I believe me, Ilove it, I love shooting, I
shoot all the time, competition,everything else like that but
there's so much more to openingyour mind than just pulling the
trigger.
So, gentlemen, I appreciatecoming on.
Arcadia Cognorati, let me getthat website out there.
(52:28):
I pull it up, that's reallyeasy, arcadiacognoraticom, and
we'll have one If you could sayyou're going to want to follow
that link If you can spell it.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
That's the first hard to think of.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
I think right.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
It's.
I don't know.
I could probably do Alpha Romeo, charlie, alpha, delta, india,
alpha, charlie, oscar Goal forNovember Echo Romeo, alpha,
tango, indiacom.
Boom Fire, mission Fire.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
Well done, that's the thing that's learning that and
how to say human behavior.
Pattern recognition andanalysis is the most difficult
thing you have to learn.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
They're gaining back in it.
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