December 19, 2024 • 24 mins
Brian Andrews, one half of the writing duo Andrews and Wilson, joins the show once again to discuss their latest contribution to the legendary Jack Ryan series, "Defense Protocol."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
hey, welcome back to the protectors podcast.
Excellent guest today brianandrews, from the duo andrews
and wilson.
They've been on the show I haveno idea how many times, but
they have been the most frequentguests on the show and I was
lucky enough to go out to anundisclosed location and do some
shooting with Brian not thatlong ago.
So, brian, welcome back to theshow.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hey, thanks for having me, and we need to make
sure we stay the undisputedchampions in the guest category
on your show.
So you know, I hope you're notthinking of reducing our
frequency at any time in thenear future.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Listen, as long as we can talk guns and books and
gear and everything else, whynot?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
All right, good, good .
Speaker 1 (00:57):
You know.
One thing I've noticed, though,is that you guys can't I would
literally.
You guys have been on like 10,11 times so far, probably, so
what do we got going on?
Now?
We have defense protocol, tomclancy new thriller out, and
where are we at?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
yeah.
So defense protocol is oursecond uh book in the clancy
series.
So I'm sure all your listenersknow who tom Clancy is, but you
(01:36):
know, in case it's been a whilesince you've read one, there's
25 books.
Defense Protocols the 25th bookin the Jack Ryan series.
So Tom Clancy wrote his firstbook 1984.
It was the Hunt for Red October.
Jack Ryan everybody knows thisguy was the hunt for October.
Jack Ryan everybody knows thisguy.
You know he's a CIA analyst andsuper smart, but he also just
can't let go of the problem.
He's got to solve it.
He's got to get out in thefield and solve it.
He's a smart guy.
He's a moral guy.
(01:57):
You know he's a guy who's sortof America's Boy Scout and I
mean that in a good way.
And so you know the entireClancyverse is sort of built
around Jack Ryan and his family.
And so over the years since1984, you know Tom Clancy some
readers might not know this, Ithink most do, but he had.
(02:19):
He passed away in 2013.
And since that time, the Clancyestate and the publisher, uh
putnam, which is a imprint atpenguin random house they've
continued on the canon of thejack ryan universe and there's
uh more books have continued.
So mark green he took over fromfrom tom clancy and he wrote
(02:40):
until he passed the baton tomark Cameron, and Mark Cameron
wrote a number of books and thenhe just recently passed the
baton to Anderson Wilson, andthis is our second Jack Ryan
book.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
You know I go back Jack Ryan because the Patriot
games hunt for red October.
Yeah, great, great.
You know submarines, blah, blah, blah.
But you know Adam Baldwin,great, great, absolutely great
movie I love it.
But when you get into, like thepatriot games, and you get into
um, oh geez, what's the otherone, the main one with harrison
(03:14):
ford right, it's like well,patriot games was his big one.
I would say yeah yeah and uh,there was two with harrison ford
there were yeah and then youhave chris pine and john
krasinski yeah so I I reallylike this new series, though
with john krasinski yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So I think that's that's worth talking about too.
Just to let you know.
Listeners know, you know theuniverse is very big, um, but
the krasinski television show,that's an Amazon Skydance jam
and it's a reboot.
Right, it's a reboot.
They're looking at a young JackRyan, sort of reimagining what
(03:53):
he would be like if he wasstarting off as a CIA analyst.
Today he has all the samequalities and characteristics
but completely differentstorylines.
100 departure from the bookseries, um, and so the fans, uh,
in the clancy verse know this,they know that.
Okay, like you said, we had theoriginal, uh, jack ryan, and in
(04:19):
the movie hunt for october'salf baldwin, and then we had
harrison ford, we had benaffleck who I think did maybe
some oh, yeah, yeah, somethinglike that, uh, and then chris
pine, and, and that that ryanmovie doesn't follow any of the
books um shadowstate, I think is what it was
called, or something like thatum, shadow recruit, yeah, shadow
(04:40):
recruit, um.
But the clancy book series, theone that we're writing in that
canon, has been sort of intactand unmolested, shall we say,
you know, for its duration.
So in the Clancy book verseJack Ryan is president of the
United States.
He's been, you know.
(05:00):
He started off as an analyst,became CIA director and worked
his way up to president of theUnited States.
So now he's president of theUnited States and he will likely
stay president of the UnitedStates for the foreseeable
future in the book series.
And so one of the things that wedid, which was kind of
interesting and new when we tookover running the series is we
(05:20):
looked at, okay, what other Ryanfamily members could be
starting to participate in thefamily business.
So Jack Ryan Jr actually hashis own book series already.
I think they're on book 14 or15 right now.
It was originally penned byMike Madden, a friend of ours, a
joint friend of ours.
Don Bentley, who you know sowell Don was writing for a while
(05:44):
did an amazing job and now he'shanded off to mp woodward, and
mike is a former navalintelligence officer.
He's writing that jack ryanjunior series in parallel while
we're writing the jack ryansenior series, and what we did
is we sort of plucked from theRyan family tree a really
(06:04):
interesting character, katieRyan, one of Jack's daughter, or
Jack's yeah well, he's twodaughters, but his younger
daughter and she is working forthe Office of Naval Intelligence
when we meet, when we firstmeet her in the last book, act
of Defiance, and so this bookfeatures Katie Ryan again.
She's just on a new adventure,trying to solve a new global
(06:27):
crisis.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You guys do a great thing with all of your series by
having rich characterdevelopment, which I like to see
, and I like to see that inthese universes they are a whole
new universe but they'reconnected.
You know, like you have the dadover here, the Jack Ryan Jr
over here, then you get a splitoff series.
I want that.
(06:50):
I want a lot of differentcharacters.
I want a little different booksbecause I tell you, most people
could run through it, Like youreally get into a book, you can
knock it out in a few days aweek and you want more.
And, like the age of socialmedia now, you always want more.
So when it comes to books andeverything you got to be
producing and you guys areknocking these books out and I'm
you know you got to keep up andyou guys have got to be the
(07:15):
busiest authors I know.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, right now we're we're writing four different
series.
So we write um this Jack Ryanseries, we do the tier one
series, which is our first bigseries.
I think the first thing we cameon your show about to talk
about John Dempsey and tier one.
Uh, we spinoff series from Tier1 called Sons of Valor, which
features a character that firstappeared in War Shadows,
(07:40):
lieutenant Commander ChunkRedman, keith Redman, and Chunk
was a fan favorite, that's whyhe sort of got his own series.
And then we have the Shepardseries, which is sort of our
men's action, covert operationswith the faith component.
So that's a little morespeculative.
It has some spiritual warfaretype stuff in it, combined with
(08:02):
regular special operations.
So yeah, so I think maybe it'sworth noting for everybody who's
listening that if you'rewaiting for a particular
Anderson Wilson title that'scoming out, you've been like,
well, when's the next Dempseybook coming out?
When's the next Chunk book?
I'll tell you now.
So 2025 is going to be a greatyear for everybody who's fans of
(08:23):
all of our series.
So we've got Dark Rising, whichis the fourth book in the
Shepard series, coming out inApril.
We've got Sons of Valor 4,false Flag, which comes out in
July.
We have the ninth Tier 1 book,which is coming out in October,
and then we have our next Clancybook coming out next December,
and those last two we're stilldebating titles.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So I don't have titles to share, but we do have
pub dates.
You know, tier 1 is my I don'tknow, you know, probably could
be at this point after listeningto the last one it probably is
my favorite series.
I love the whole dynamic withDempsey the Dempsey son,
everything going on in thebackground and like you know
who's going to be president nextand I mean just it's crazy how
you have all these charactersand you you build with them and
(09:15):
it's like you want more of themand that's why I like about what
I was talking before about, butthe universes, but the tier one
series.
For anybody out there who hasnot read it, pick up the first
one and just start reading,start listening.
I mean, I'm a big, I'm a hugeaudiobook, yeah, but when I
listen to those books I feellike I'm in the book, I feel
like I'm in a movie and they'reand they're so well well put
(09:39):
together that it doesn't feeldisjointed.
The stories are great and Ireally do absolutely now.
Now I have to go back and Ihave to catch up on clancy books
too, because I need more.
I need more audio.
I'm like it's sucking right now.
I need that.
But one thing I do want to say.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I appreciate you saying that.
I think we look at tier onelike a family.
These characters are peoplethat we actually care about and
that's important, because one ofthe things about our brand and
just us as professionalstorytellers, is we never want
to phone in a book, we neverwant to just write a book
because we've got a deadline andwe just got to pump one out.
(10:20):
There needs to be something toit.
There's got to be heart,there's got to be a hook,
there's got to be a reason thatwe're asking people to spend 12
hours of their time you said,you know, on an audiobook it's
12 hours of your, of your life,listening to the adventures and
and travails of of the peopleand the stories.
(10:41):
And so you know, we care aboutthese people.
We care about dempsey and hislife and his family and other
ember team members and, um, soyeah, as long as, as long as
people also care, we're going tokeep riding them.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Well, you care, because you're actually doing
the research as well, and weknow you've done research with
the subs and been on aircraftcarriers and everything else.
But I do, you know, with meit's all about guns, what's up?
So now you and I go to therange and you're pulling out
this Wilson Combat EDC-X9, justlike the one I have and we start
plugging away with that thingand that.
(11:17):
What a piece of, what a pieceof art that is yes I mean we're
very grateful for ourpartnership with wilson.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Um, it really develops just sort of
organically, I actually.
I think, if I'm not mistakenyou, you introduced us well
actually I Well, actually I did,didn't.
I yeah, you know, and because Ithink you know, if I remember
how the conversation went, itwas sort of you were saying you
know, these guys are the best inthe business.
You know family run company andthey haven't sold out to you
(11:51):
know sort of the taking thecorporate route and they still
really care about what they'redoing and they, they manufacture
, design and manufacture, youknow, precision firearms at a
level that nobody else does.
And it seemed like a sort of anatural fit for us, especially
with, like the tier one Emberteam.
(12:13):
Like this is the type of ofplatform that they would pick
for themselves, right, you knowwhere it can be highly
customized but also highlyaccurate, very reliable.
Yeah, so it just was a naturalfit and and we love them down
there at Wilson.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
You know, you and I shot a couple of different guns
that day.
One was another manufacturerand then you and then you shoot
that gun and then you put thewilson in your hand.
I I keep telling people likethere's such a difference
between like a mass-producedyeah firearm and something that
you can tell is tailor-made.
Like me, I I purchased the edcx9 and I had him put like the
(12:54):
flag on it, I had the grips Iwanted, I had the sights I
wanted on there.
If I could go back, I I'm stilldebating whether or not I would
do optics or not, because Ilove your optics on there,
because it's like listen, youpick it up and you're like
putting bolts on top of bolts.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So I don't know, I could do the same thing with
iron sights, but it's not asquick yeah, yeah, and I think,
like you said, the difference isthere's no slop in any of the
mechanism, right?
So it feels like, um, it's sortof like the difference between
(13:28):
driving like a modern day bmwand Ford Mustang from the
seventies.
Right, you know, the, the, theMustang from the seventies is
wild and crazy, it's going to beall over there and and that
that modern day BMW is soprecise, so exact, so tight, you
know, and that's, that's theWilson, you know it.
(13:48):
Just, it feels, it feelsliterally bulletproof in your
hands, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
It feels like you could beat the hell out of it.
I mean, it's a beautiful,beautiful piece of art.
But I always tell people I'mlike a gun is made to be shot.
A gun is made to be just used.
Don't baby it, don't whatever.
You slingshot it, you go, youshoot, shoot, shoot, you reload
and you shoot some more.
You can put it and I like touse any, any crap ammo I can
(14:17):
into it to see if it'll perform.
And then obviously, you knowyour carry ammo is going to be a
lot different than the crapyou're putting into it.
But I like to see a weaponputting the cheapest things
through it because if it doesn'tmanifest, if it doesn't
malfunction, based on you know,some guns are very finicky.
They are like that BMW, let'ssay.
(14:38):
You're like the 3 Series from1980s compared to the 7 Series.
Now you know what I mean.
It's very finicky with how youoperate it, but with those
Wolsons, man, you could beat thehell out of them.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
You don't want to, but you can.
Yeah, yeah, and, and, and.
Even in the day that you and Iwent to the range, we just
bought the range ammo, right,and we just we didn't even look
at what it was, we didn't worryabout it and, um, and, and, and
you were stacking them up, right, you're shooting through the,
through the holes where you shotbefore.
So it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I tell you, what you and I need to do is we need to
get some of these wilson guns.
We need to go to a rangesomewhere off-site, like a nice
outdoor range, and set up a nicecourse and beat the hell out of
thing with like a thousandrounds, like I want to, like,
just, I want extra magazines.
I want to just shoot, shoot,shoot until it's like flaming
hot and then shoot some morebecause I want I you know I love
(15:34):
social media, you know that Ilove, like you, people put up
little clips of shooting and alot of them are like, hey, you
know what they look great.
But what I want to do is I wantto take a thousand rounds and I
want to just have like magazineupon magazine and just shoot
that thing from every positionpossible and just, you know,
shoot from one yard to 50 yards,to 25 yards and just move with
(15:58):
it and everything.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I want to see how these things are so the muzzle
is bright red.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yes, absolutely Like a thousand rounds, like we
better wear gloves because thatsucker is going to be burning.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
All right, we'll do it.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So that's a hint, wilson, let's do this.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Well, we'll talk to Guy and see what he has to say.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, I just picked up uh, I just picked up the DCX9
probably like a year and a halfago, and before that I was
shooting another manufacturer's1911.
And there's such a differencebetween it, man, and I can't.
I can't speak too much abouthow much I liked the the
Wilson's, because there are sothere are so many different 1911
(16:39):
platforms now.
But I see Wilsons coming upwith this new one and I haven't
really checked it out yet.
It's like Model 77 or somethingI've got to look it up, but it
looks pretty solid.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, we'll have to see if we can get the inside
scoop on that.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
So we have Defense Protocol.
What else is going on with youguys in 2025?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, so I kind of drifted off subject, didn't I?
Um, did I say all the books arecoming?
Yeah, I think I took us throughthe all the books, um.
And then we've got, um, we'vegot the tier one series is
optioned, uh, and in developmentat Legendary Entertainment.
So Legendary Television, we'vegot two great producers.
Marcus Blakely and PeterJohnson are the guys who are
(17:26):
sort of spearheading this, andwe love these guys.
They're really, really smart,experienced in TV.
They worked on 24 andSupernatural and Lost in Space
and the Jack Ryan series over atSkydance.
(17:47):
So they've got great bona fidesand they're just very
enthusiastic.
They get Dempsey, they get whatwe're trying to do in the
series and the story that we'retrying to tell.
We've got a writer attached andnow it's just sort of looking
for see if we can get it cast upand look for a home for it at
(18:07):
one of the streamers.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Now, if you can get away from the thriller genre and
anything with guns, what wouldyou write?
Would you go back and likewrite a historical book or would
you write nonfiction?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Oh, I think we're fiction guys for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I'm talking about you , brian Andrews.
You.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I mean, I think you know I've been thinking a lot
about leadership these days,especially in the challenging
sort of geopolitical climate wehave right now.
You know what does it mean tobe a leadership Can we is
leadership by example.
Leadership by example, I think,has gone, fallen out of favor
(18:47):
for leadership, shock, jockleadership, I guess, is what I
would call it.
You know so I, if I had todecide.
You know I've been, I've beenmulling over the idea of putting
together a.
You know so I, if I had todecide.
You know I've been, I've beenmulling over the idea of putting
together a.
You know something nonfictionrelated to leadership, that that
I could see that in my future.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
You know, leadership is one fundamental that you
can't really teach.
No, you can give someone abaseline with rhetoric and
everything, but you have to showthem the way, and I think in
order for people to find the way, sometimes they need to read it
.
You know the social media thing, man, I'm telling you, 30
second clips or five minuteclips will not show you how to
(19:27):
be a great leader.
No, but that's why I like theidea of you picking up and
writing a book, becausesometimes, like to me, I like to
, like you know, I like to tap.
When I'm reading a nonfictionbook, I'll tab it, I'll go back
to it.
I'm like huh, it's a referenceguide, yeah, and I think
something like that would beperfect, like ROTCs, people who
are junior leaders on up to thecorporate world.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, I mean the corporate world really has.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
They're very lacking when it comes to actual.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I think that's right, you know.
And when I left the Navy, youknow, as an officer, I thought a
lot about leadership.
And how am I representing?
What type of leader am I?
As a junior officer, you knowwhat were my strengths, what
were my weaknesses?
Leadership drives the Navy.
It drives the success of everysingle ship and submarine and
(20:14):
squadron.
You see it, you just see it.
You know, good leaders set theclimate, they set the
expectations and everybody justsort of follows suit.
And then, after the Navy, I wentto get my MBA and I was a park
leadership fellow and themessage of the park program is
servant leadership, this ideathat you know leaders need to
(20:38):
give back in some way.
They're giving their expertise,they're giving their time,
their generosity, theirknowledge, their enthusiasm, and
they make sacrifices.
You know they make sacrificesto put their team ahead of
themselves, or their companyahead of themselves, or their
(20:58):
nonprofit ahead of themselves,or their nation ahead of
themselves.
And so these types ofprinciples have informed my
writing.
I tried.
I think they inform my life andhow I interact with people and
conduct my business as an author, because being an author is a
business, and conduct mybusiness as an author because
(21:19):
being an author is a businesshow we try to support veteran
entrepreneurs and mentor peopletrying to get into whatever,
whatever their next act is as aveteran.
After you come off of militaryservice, everybody has a second
act.
It's a challenge, so I thinkthere is an opportunity for so.
I try to take that experienceand my principles and pay them
(21:41):
forward.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
And you know, you and I had this discussion when I
came out there to shoot with youabout how you integrate that
leadership into your fictionbooks as well.
They're kind of like aframework of what kind of leader
you would want to be or whatkind of leader you think someone
would follow yeah, because alot of guys are.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
You know that you've got two types of readers.
You got guys that I'm gonnaread.
If I'm gonna read a book, Ibetter be entertained.
I don't.
I'm not picking up someself-help book like that's not
my gig, right.
And then you've got guys thatare all about self-help,
self-development.
Don't say self-help,self-development and I'm
optimizing myself and I'm goingto read everything I can, from
every successful you knowathlete to service member to you
(22:25):
know entrepreneur and podcast,and I'm going to make myself
perfect.
You know so good for those guys, they're out there seeking out
the information from experts andtrying to self-improve.
But for the people that say,you know what, when I have time
to read, I want to beentertained, I want to have fun.
I think there's still anopportunity for for some
(22:47):
self-development there too, andso that's what we've done in
tier one is we put leadershipscenarios and moral crises into
every book, so that you mightnot be aware of it when you're
reading the book, but you areexposed to someone who doesn't
give up.
They're persistent when facedwith moral crises, they don't
(23:08):
crumble, they don't sacrificethemselves or their principles
in order to try to overcome achallenge, and I think those
things matter.
That's what helps make peoplebetter people, and so there's
still opportunities to talkabout leadership, even if it's
just in storytelling.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
I love it, brother.
Well, I'm looking forward topicking up Defense Protocol.
Actually, I think I might havea copy here.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I'm so glad I'm not sending you one if you didn't
get one.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I'm so happy with their publishers.
They I'm so glad I wouldn'thave sent you one if you didn't
get one.
Yeah, I'm so happy with theirpublishers.
They always send me the copies.
But I want to start listeningto this series again.
Yeah, and I want to start goingback and I want to start from
the beginning, because I mean,25 bucks would be great.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
But you'll think about that evolution You'll get
to see.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
There's a couple things that happen, so we should
have another discussion afteryou've done that, because you
know the first Clancy book cameout in 1984 and storytelling
thrillers.
Well, he was really thegrandfather or the father of the
military thriller.
I mean, he's sort of in thegenre, but the way that stories
(24:10):
were told then versus now havechanged, and I think it goes to
sort of what you were sayingbefore.
You know we have a much morekinetic entertainment
environment.
Now, right, we want, we wantour shows when we want them.
They're fast paced, there'saction, there's, you know,
social media clips of boom boom,boom, boom, boom.
The chapters are shorter.
(24:31):
We got to get to the meatquickly, so it'll be fun for you
to see.
Like, how does it feel goingthrough those stories from 40
years ago when stories were tolddifferently versus now?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I love it, brother.
Well, I appreciate you comingon the show and I appreciate you
and I'm looking forward to thefuture man.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Well, thanks for having me and I'm looking
forward to 2025.
hey, welcome back to the protectors podcast.
Excellent guest today brianandrews, from the duo andrews
and wilson.
They've been on the show I haveno idea how many times, but
they have been the most frequentguests on the show and I was
lucky enough to go out to anundisclosed location and do some
shooting with Brian not thatlong ago.
So, brian, welcome back to theshow.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hey, thanks for having me, and we need to make
sure we stay the undisputedchampions in the guest category
on your show.
So you know, I hope you're notthinking of reducing our
frequency at any time in thenear future.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Listen, as long as we can talk guns and books and
gear and everything else, whynot?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
All right, good, good .
Speaker 1 (00:57):
You know.
One thing I've noticed, though,is that you guys can't I would
literally.
You guys have been on like 10,11 times so far, probably, so
what do we got going on?
Now?
We have defense protocol, tomclancy new thriller out, and
where are we at?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
yeah.
So defense protocol is oursecond uh book in the clancy
series.
So I'm sure all your listenersknow who tom Clancy is, but you
(01:36):
know, in case it's been a whilesince you've read one, there's
25 books.
Defense Protocols the 25th bookin the Jack Ryan series.
So Tom Clancy wrote his firstbook 1984.
It was the Hunt for Red October.
Jack Ryan everybody knows thisguy was the hunt for October.
Jack Ryan everybody knows thisguy.
You know he's a CIA analyst andsuper smart, but he also just
can't let go of the problem.
He's got to solve it.
He's got to get out in thefield and solve it.
He's a smart guy.
He's a moral guy.
(01:57):
You know he's a guy who's sortof America's Boy Scout and I
mean that in a good way.
And so you know the entireClancyverse is sort of built
around Jack Ryan and his family.
And so over the years since1984, you know Tom Clancy some
readers might not know this, Ithink most do, but he had.
(02:19):
He passed away in 2013.
And since that time, the Clancyestate and the publisher, uh
putnam, which is a imprint atpenguin random house they've
continued on the canon of thejack ryan universe and there's
uh more books have continued.
So mark green he took over fromfrom tom clancy and he wrote
(02:40):
until he passed the baton tomark Cameron, and Mark Cameron
wrote a number of books and thenhe just recently passed the
baton to Anderson Wilson, andthis is our second Jack Ryan
book.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
You know I go back Jack Ryan because the Patriot
games hunt for red October.
Yeah, great, great.
You know submarines, blah, blah, blah.
But you know Adam Baldwin,great, great, absolutely great
movie I love it.
But when you get into, like thepatriot games, and you get into
um, oh geez, what's the otherone, the main one with harrison
(03:14):
ford right, it's like well,patriot games was his big one.
I would say yeah yeah and uh,there was two with harrison ford
there were yeah and then youhave chris pine and john
krasinski yeah so I I reallylike this new series, though
with john krasinski yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So I think that's that's worth talking about too.
Just to let you know.
Listeners know, you know theuniverse is very big, um, but
the krasinski television show,that's an Amazon Skydance jam
and it's a reboot.
Right, it's a reboot.
They're looking at a young JackRyan, sort of reimagining what
(03:53):
he would be like if he wasstarting off as a CIA analyst.
Today he has all the samequalities and characteristics
but completely differentstorylines.
100 departure from the bookseries, um, and so the fans, uh,
in the clancy verse know this,they know that.
Okay, like you said, we had theoriginal, uh, jack ryan, and in
(04:19):
the movie hunt for october'salf baldwin, and then we had
harrison ford, we had benaffleck who I think did maybe
some oh, yeah, yeah, somethinglike that, uh, and then chris
pine, and, and that that ryanmovie doesn't follow any of the
books um shadowstate, I think is what it was
called, or something like thatum, shadow recruit, yeah, shadow
(04:40):
recruit, um.
But the clancy book series, theone that we're writing in that
canon, has been sort of intactand unmolested, shall we say,
you know, for its duration.
So in the Clancy book verseJack Ryan is president of the
United States.
He's been, you know.
(05:00):
He started off as an analyst,became CIA director and worked
his way up to president of theUnited States.
So now he's president of theUnited States and he will likely
stay president of the UnitedStates for the foreseeable
future in the book series.
And so one of the things that wedid, which was kind of
interesting and new when we tookover running the series is we
(05:20):
looked at, okay, what other Ryanfamily members could be
starting to participate in thefamily business.
So Jack Ryan Jr actually hashis own book series already.
I think they're on book 14 or15 right now.
It was originally penned byMike Madden, a friend of ours, a
joint friend of ours.
Don Bentley, who you know sowell Don was writing for a while
(05:44):
did an amazing job and now he'shanded off to mp woodward, and
mike is a former navalintelligence officer.
He's writing that jack ryanjunior series in parallel while
we're writing the jack ryansenior series, and what we did
is we sort of plucked from theRyan family tree a really
(06:04):
interesting character, katieRyan, one of Jack's daughter, or
Jack's yeah well, he's twodaughters, but his younger
daughter and she is working forthe Office of Naval Intelligence
when we meet, when we firstmeet her in the last book, act
of Defiance, and so this bookfeatures Katie Ryan again.
She's just on a new adventure,trying to solve a new global
(06:27):
crisis.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You guys do a great thing with all of your series by
having rich characterdevelopment, which I like to see
, and I like to see that inthese universes they are a whole
new universe but they'reconnected.
You know, like you have the dadover here, the Jack Ryan Jr
over here, then you get a splitoff series.
I want that.
(06:50):
I want a lot of differentcharacters.
I want a little different booksbecause I tell you, most people
could run through it, Like youreally get into a book, you can
knock it out in a few days aweek and you want more.
And, like the age of socialmedia now, you always want more.
So when it comes to books andeverything you got to be
producing and you guys areknocking these books out and I'm
you know you got to keep up andyou guys have got to be the
(07:15):
busiest authors I know.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, right now we're we're writing four different
series.
So we write um this Jack Ryanseries, we do the tier one
series, which is our first bigseries.
I think the first thing we cameon your show about to talk
about John Dempsey and tier one.
Uh, we spinoff series from Tier1 called Sons of Valor, which
features a character that firstappeared in War Shadows,
(07:40):
lieutenant Commander ChunkRedman, keith Redman, and Chunk
was a fan favorite, that's whyhe sort of got his own series.
And then we have the Shepardseries, which is sort of our
men's action, covert operationswith the faith component.
So that's a little morespeculative.
It has some spiritual warfaretype stuff in it, combined with
(08:02):
regular special operations.
So yeah, so I think maybe it'sworth noting for everybody who's
listening that if you'rewaiting for a particular
Anderson Wilson title that'scoming out, you've been like,
well, when's the next Dempseybook coming out?
When's the next Chunk book?
I'll tell you now.
So 2025 is going to be a greatyear for everybody who's fans of
(08:23):
all of our series.
So we've got Dark Rising, whichis the fourth book in the
Shepard series, coming out inApril.
We've got Sons of Valor 4,false Flag, which comes out in
July.
We have the ninth Tier 1 book,which is coming out in October,
and then we have our next Clancybook coming out next December,
and those last two we're stilldebating titles.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So I don't have titles to share, but we do have
pub dates.
You know, tier 1 is my I don'tknow, you know, probably could
be at this point after listeningto the last one it probably is
my favorite series.
I love the whole dynamic withDempsey the Dempsey son,
everything going on in thebackground and like you know
who's going to be president nextand I mean just it's crazy how
you have all these charactersand you you build with them and
(09:15):
it's like you want more of themand that's why I like about what
I was talking before about, butthe universes, but the tier one
series.
For anybody out there who hasnot read it, pick up the first
one and just start reading,start listening.
I mean, I'm a big, I'm a hugeaudiobook, yeah, but when I
listen to those books I feellike I'm in the book, I feel
like I'm in a movie and they'reand they're so well well put
(09:39):
together that it doesn't feeldisjointed.
The stories are great and Ireally do absolutely now.
Now I have to go back and Ihave to catch up on clancy books
too, because I need more.
I need more audio.
I'm like it's sucking right now.
I need that.
But one thing I do want to say.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I appreciate you saying that.
I think we look at tier onelike a family.
These characters are peoplethat we actually care about and
that's important, because one ofthe things about our brand and
just us as professionalstorytellers, is we never want
to phone in a book, we neverwant to just write a book
because we've got a deadline andwe just got to pump one out.
(10:20):
There needs to be something toit.
There's got to be heart,there's got to be a hook,
there's got to be a reason thatwe're asking people to spend 12
hours of their time you said,you know, on an audiobook it's
12 hours of your, of your life,listening to the adventures and
and travails of of the peopleand the stories.
(10:41):
And so you know, we care aboutthese people.
We care about dempsey and hislife and his family and other
ember team members and, um, soyeah, as long as, as long as
people also care, we're going tokeep riding them.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Well, you care, because you're actually doing
the research as well, and weknow you've done research with
the subs and been on aircraftcarriers and everything else.
But I do, you know, with meit's all about guns, what's up?
So now you and I go to therange and you're pulling out
this Wilson Combat EDC-X9, justlike the one I have and we start
plugging away with that thingand that.
(11:17):
What a piece of, what a pieceof art that is yes I mean we're
very grateful for ourpartnership with wilson.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Um, it really develops just sort of
organically, I actually.
I think, if I'm not mistakenyou, you introduced us well
actually I Well, actually I did,didn't.
I yeah, you know, and because Ithink you know, if I remember
how the conversation went, itwas sort of you were saying you
know, these guys are the best inthe business.
You know family run company andthey haven't sold out to you
(11:51):
know sort of the taking thecorporate route and they still
really care about what they'redoing and they, they manufacture
, design and manufacture, youknow, precision firearms at a
level that nobody else does.
And it seemed like a sort of anatural fit for us, especially
with, like the tier one Emberteam.
(12:13):
Like this is the type of ofplatform that they would pick
for themselves, right, you knowwhere it can be highly
customized but also highlyaccurate, very reliable.
Yeah, so it just was a naturalfit and and we love them down
there at Wilson.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
You know, you and I shot a couple of different guns
that day.
One was another manufacturerand then you and then you shoot
that gun and then you put thewilson in your hand.
I I keep telling people likethere's such a difference
between like a mass-producedyeah firearm and something that
you can tell is tailor-made.
Like me, I I purchased the edcx9 and I had him put like the
(12:54):
flag on it, I had the grips Iwanted, I had the sights I
wanted on there.
If I could go back, I I'm stilldebating whether or not I would
do optics or not, because Ilove your optics on there,
because it's like listen, youpick it up and you're like
putting bolts on top of bolts.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So I don't know, I could do the same thing with
iron sights, but it's not asquick yeah, yeah, and I think,
like you said, the difference isthere's no slop in any of the
mechanism, right?
So it feels like, um, it's sortof like the difference between
(13:28):
driving like a modern day bmwand Ford Mustang from the
seventies.
Right, you know, the, the, theMustang from the seventies is
wild and crazy, it's going to beall over there and and that
that modern day BMW is soprecise, so exact, so tight, you
know, and that's, that's theWilson, you know it.
(13:48):
Just, it feels, it feelsliterally bulletproof in your
hands, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
It feels like you could beat the hell out of it.
I mean, it's a beautiful,beautiful piece of art.
But I always tell people I'mlike a gun is made to be shot.
A gun is made to be just used.
Don't baby it, don't whatever.
You slingshot it, you go, youshoot, shoot, shoot, you reload
and you shoot some more.
You can put it and I like touse any, any crap ammo I can
(14:17):
into it to see if it'll perform.
And then obviously, you knowyour carry ammo is going to be a
lot different than the crapyou're putting into it.
But I like to see a weaponputting the cheapest things
through it because if it doesn'tmanifest, if it doesn't
malfunction, based on you know,some guns are very finicky.
They are like that BMW, let'ssay.
(14:38):
You're like the 3 Series from1980s compared to the 7 Series.
Now you know what I mean.
It's very finicky with how youoperate it, but with those
Wolsons, man, you could beat thehell out of them.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
You don't want to, but you can.
Yeah, yeah, and, and, and.
Even in the day that you and Iwent to the range, we just
bought the range ammo, right,and we just we didn't even look
at what it was, we didn't worryabout it and, um, and, and, and
you were stacking them up, right, you're shooting through the,
through the holes where you shotbefore.
So it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I tell you, what you and I need to do is we need to
get some of these wilson guns.
We need to go to a rangesomewhere off-site, like a nice
outdoor range, and set up a nicecourse and beat the hell out of
thing with like a thousandrounds, like I want to, like,
just, I want extra magazines.
I want to just shoot, shoot,shoot until it's like flaming
hot and then shoot some morebecause I want I you know I love
(15:34):
social media, you know that Ilove, like you, people put up
little clips of shooting and alot of them are like, hey, you
know what they look great.
But what I want to do is I wantto take a thousand rounds and I
want to just have like magazineupon magazine and just shoot
that thing from every positionpossible and just, you know,
shoot from one yard to 50 yards,to 25 yards and just move with
(15:58):
it and everything.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I want to see how these things are so the muzzle
is bright red.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yes, absolutely Like a thousand rounds, like we
better wear gloves because thatsucker is going to be burning.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
All right, we'll do it.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So that's a hint, wilson, let's do this.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Well, we'll talk to Guy and see what he has to say.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, I just picked up uh, I just picked up the DCX9
probably like a year and a halfago, and before that I was
shooting another manufacturer's1911.
And there's such a differencebetween it, man, and I can't.
I can't speak too much abouthow much I liked the the
Wilson's, because there are sothere are so many different 1911
(16:39):
platforms now.
But I see Wilsons coming upwith this new one and I haven't
really checked it out yet.
It's like Model 77 or somethingI've got to look it up, but it
looks pretty solid.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, we'll have to see if we can get the inside
scoop on that.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
So we have Defense Protocol.
What else is going on with youguys in 2025?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, so I kind of drifted off subject, didn't I?
Um, did I say all the books arecoming?
Yeah, I think I took us throughthe all the books, um.
And then we've got, um, we'vegot the tier one series is
optioned, uh, and in developmentat Legendary Entertainment.
So Legendary Television, we'vegot two great producers.
Marcus Blakely and PeterJohnson are the guys who are
(17:26):
sort of spearheading this, andwe love these guys.
They're really, really smart,experienced in TV.
They worked on 24 andSupernatural and Lost in Space
and the Jack Ryan series over atSkydance.
(17:47):
So they've got great bona fidesand they're just very
enthusiastic.
They get Dempsey, they get whatwe're trying to do in the
series and the story that we'retrying to tell.
We've got a writer attached andnow it's just sort of looking
for see if we can get it cast upand look for a home for it at
(18:07):
one of the streamers.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Now, if you can get away from the thriller genre and
anything with guns, what wouldyou write?
Would you go back and likewrite a historical book or would
you write nonfiction?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Oh, I think we're fiction guys for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I'm talking about you , brian Andrews.
You.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I mean, I think you know I've been thinking a lot
about leadership these days,especially in the challenging
sort of geopolitical climate wehave right now.
You know what does it mean tobe a leadership Can we is
leadership by example.
Leadership by example, I think,has gone, fallen out of favor
(18:47):
for leadership, shock, jockleadership, I guess, is what I
would call it.
You know so I, if I had todecide.
You know I've been, I've beenmulling over the idea of putting
together a.
You know so I, if I had todecide.
You know I've been, I've beenmulling over the idea of putting
together a.
You know something nonfictionrelated to leadership, that that
I could see that in my future.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
You know, leadership is one fundamental that you
can't really teach.
No, you can give someone abaseline with rhetoric and
everything, but you have to showthem the way, and I think in
order for people to find the way, sometimes they need to read it
.
You know the social media thing, man, I'm telling you, 30
second clips or five minuteclips will not show you how to
(19:27):
be a great leader.
No, but that's why I like theidea of you picking up and
writing a book, becausesometimes, like to me, I like to
, like you know, I like to tap.
When I'm reading a nonfictionbook, I'll tab it, I'll go back
to it.
I'm like huh, it's a referenceguide, yeah, and I think
something like that would beperfect, like ROTCs, people who
are junior leaders on up to thecorporate world.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, I mean the corporate world really has.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
They're very lacking when it comes to actual.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I think that's right, you know.
And when I left the Navy, youknow, as an officer, I thought a
lot about leadership.
And how am I representing?
What type of leader am I?
As a junior officer, you knowwhat were my strengths, what
were my weaknesses?
Leadership drives the Navy.
It drives the success of everysingle ship and submarine and
(20:14):
squadron.
You see it, you just see it.
You know, good leaders set theclimate, they set the
expectations and everybody justsort of follows suit.
And then, after the Navy, I wentto get my MBA and I was a park
leadership fellow and themessage of the park program is
servant leadership, this ideathat you know leaders need to
(20:38):
give back in some way.
They're giving their expertise,they're giving their time,
their generosity, theirknowledge, their enthusiasm, and
they make sacrifices.
You know they make sacrificesto put their team ahead of
themselves, or their companyahead of themselves, or their
(20:58):
nonprofit ahead of themselves,or their nation ahead of
themselves.
And so these types ofprinciples have informed my
writing.
I tried.
I think they inform my life andhow I interact with people and
conduct my business as an author, because being an author is a
business, and conduct mybusiness as an author because
(21:19):
being an author is a businesshow we try to support veteran
entrepreneurs and mentor peopletrying to get into whatever,
whatever their next act is as aveteran.
After you come off of militaryservice, everybody has a second
act.
It's a challenge, so I thinkthere is an opportunity for so.
I try to take that experienceand my principles and pay them
(21:41):
forward.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
And you know, you and I had this discussion when I
came out there to shoot with youabout how you integrate that
leadership into your fictionbooks as well.
They're kind of like aframework of what kind of leader
you would want to be or whatkind of leader you think someone
would follow yeah, because alot of guys are.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
You know that you've got two types of readers.
You got guys that I'm gonnaread.
If I'm gonna read a book, Ibetter be entertained.
I don't.
I'm not picking up someself-help book like that's not
my gig, right.
And then you've got guys thatare all about self-help,
self-development.
Don't say self-help,self-development and I'm
optimizing myself and I'm goingto read everything I can, from
every successful you knowathlete to service member to you
(22:25):
know entrepreneur and podcast,and I'm going to make myself
perfect.
You know so good for those guys, they're out there seeking out
the information from experts andtrying to self-improve.
But for the people that say,you know what, when I have time
to read, I want to beentertained, I want to have fun.
I think there's still anopportunity for for some
(22:47):
self-development there too, andso that's what we've done in
tier one is we put leadershipscenarios and moral crises into
every book, so that you mightnot be aware of it when you're
reading the book, but you areexposed to someone who doesn't
give up.
They're persistent when facedwith moral crises, they don't
(23:08):
crumble, they don't sacrificethemselves or their principles
in order to try to overcome achallenge, and I think those
things matter.
That's what helps make peoplebetter people, and so there's
still opportunities to talkabout leadership, even if it's
just in storytelling.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
I love it, brother.
Well, I'm looking forward topicking up Defense Protocol.
Actually, I think I might havea copy here.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I'm so glad I'm not sending you one if you didn't
get one.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I'm so happy with their publishers.
They I'm so glad I wouldn'thave sent you one if you didn't
get one.
Yeah, I'm so happy with theirpublishers.
They always send me the copies.
But I want to start listeningto this series again.
Yeah, and I want to start goingback and I want to start from
the beginning, because I mean,25 bucks would be great.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
But you'll think about that evolution You'll get
to see.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
There's a couple things that happen, so we should
have another discussion afteryou've done that, because you
know the first Clancy book cameout in 1984 and storytelling
thrillers.
Well, he was really thegrandfather or the father of the
military thriller.
I mean, he's sort of in thegenre, but the way that stories
(24:10):
were told then versus now havechanged, and I think it goes to
sort of what you were sayingbefore.
You know we have a much morekinetic entertainment
environment.
Now, right, we want, we wantour shows when we want them.
They're fast paced, there'saction, there's, you know,
social media clips of boom boom,boom, boom, boom.
The chapters are shorter.
(24:31):
We got to get to the meatquickly, so it'll be fun for you
to see.
Like, how does it feel goingthrough those stories from 40
years ago when stories were tolddifferently versus now?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I love it, brother.
Well, I appreciate you comingon the show and I appreciate you
and I'm looking forward to thefuture man.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Well, thanks for having me and I'm looking
forward to 2025.
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