525 | Mark Greaney

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In our latest episode, Mark Greaney reflects on the profound responsibilities of being a protector in a rapidly changing world. 
 
• Mark shares his experiences transitioning to fatherhood during challenging times 
• The impact of social media on personal and professional relationships 
• Emphasizing the need for family involvement in safety plans 
• Discussing practical firearm training and preparedness in crisis situations 
• The relevance of storytelling in shaping perspectives on protection 
• Insights on the upcoming release of Mark’s new book and genre shift

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Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hey, welcome back to the protectors.
A multiple guest has returnedMark Rainey and my awesome
co-star Am I Dare.
Hey, welcome back to the show.
But first, before we get outthere, we want to give a really
big shout out to Gene O'Neill,also a great co-host.
So, gene, hope you're doinggreat, brother, we're thinking

(00:35):
about you.
So, mark, welcome to the show,man.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hey man, how you doing Good to see both of you.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Good, I see you had a very big article posted.
Was it the Washington Post?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, they did.
They did a piece on me.
They had a guy come into townand we went out to a gun range
in North Mississippi and didsome shooting, had a really good
time.
It was fun.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
I think that's the journalism I want to do, where I
get to just go around and shootguns with people and just have
fun.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, he wasn't.
The journalist was not.
Travis was not, I don't think,very experienced with guns, but
was doing really well.
He was hitting out at 450 yardswithin two minutes of
instruction from the instructorsthere.
He did really good.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Well, you know me, I love to shoot guns, I love to
talk about guns no-transcriptbad vibes towards that.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
But actually beforehand they're like well, we
want to see mark.
They came to my publicist andthey were like, we want to see
him doing some of the researchthat he does on things.
And so my publicist was like,well, what can you do?
And I'm like, well, I'm inmemphis, so we're not scuba
diving.
Um, there's all sorts of thingsthat you know it's like you're
not going to see me researchingin some other country because I

(02:18):
do that.
I was like, but, um, I knowsome guys at a range that uh are
, they're all trainers, they allprofessionally trained.
They're not just, you know, myYahoo buddies that are going to
take us out and shoot.
So we went to the shoot houseand to to the range and and then
he, he had a good time with it,he, he had a lot of fun.

(02:39):
We drove down.
You know the tough thing aboutthese.
This was like an all dayinterview and so it's kind of
hard to you know the tough thingabout these.
This was like an all-dayinterview and, um, so it's kind
of hard to you know.
You just, you're naturally hadneed to be on your guard a
little bit, uh, about what yousay, and so I was kind of uh,
like the first line in there waslike mark grainy says like yeah
, I haven't shot in a while.
I'm gonna look like an idiot,you know.
It's like that's probablysomething I said just as we were

(03:01):
driving down there, because hehad his mic going the whole time
, you know.
But it it was uh a lot of funand uh, you know, it was a good
article.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
I was you brought up a good point about how they're
recording all the time andthere's been a lot of people
that kind of put their foot intheir mouth and said things like
just being off the cuff.
It's almost like the almostfamous movie where you're like
the journalist isn't your friend, you got to watch out with her.
So, like I can imagine, likebeing miked up all day, you
really do let your guard down,you really can see your true
self.

(03:31):
So that must have been.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Must have been very hesitant at first, but then very
freeing yeah, and when I didjoe rogan a couple years ago, I
was like not nervous at all.
I was like, oh, this will becool, this will be fun.
And then, like the night before, two days before they're,
they're like, oh, just so, youknow, the interview runs.
It's about a three-hourinterview and I've just I got
terrified.
I was like I cannot keep myguard up for three hours.

(03:54):
And with joe it's like within 10minutes you're just talking to
somebody you know he's not usingnotes or doesn't feel like an
interview, it's just just kindof a chat.
And so I was like there's noway I'm going 100, you know,
three full hours without sayingone stupid thing about.
Oh yeah, this guy is an idiotor whatever you know.

(04:15):
And he kind of gets you tobring your guard down some.
But you know, I walked out ofthere going like I guess I'll
just have to watch this and seewho I, who I've offended, which
one of my friends I've offendedyou know, and that's I do love
that you brought up the offendedpart, because you and I are
Facebook friends and you know Ido see a lot of the posts.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
I see a lot of people coming to kick back, but you do
, you are very you, and I thinkBrad Taylor and a few others
aren't just authors, and what Imean by that is like you
actually take a critical look atthings that are going on in a
world and you actually provideyour own input on it and you
don't just kind of, you know,listen, some people are like hey
, I got, I got to think aboutbook sales, I got to think about

(04:55):
this, I got to think aboutevery single word.
I say yeah, and it just goesback to you being free and open
with that journalist.
But you are, you one being freeand open with that journalist,
but you are.
One thing I do is I notice thatyou actually take critical
looks at things that are goingon in the world.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, and anyone who agrees with you is like preach,
preach.
And if they disagree with you,it's always this weird, almost
threatening thing like you needto be careful about alienating
your fans.
It's like, no, it's you thatdon't agree with me.
It's, it's not.
You know 50 million people thatare not going to buy my book
and and it's like you don't haveto agree with me.

(05:31):
It's it's.
I have the exact same voice thatyou have.
I'm not saying I know more thanyou.
I mean, if it's about somethingin Ukraine, it's possible I
know more than you, cause I Iread about this stuff for a
couple hours every day.
Maybe you don't, but maybe youknow more than I do.
Maybe you just know becauseyour uncle told you something.
I try not to get in socialmedia fights just because it

(05:54):
really does waste time and timethat you don't have.
You're not going to changeanybody's opinion.
No one's going to change myopinion.
I've got people out there whoare like you know, vladimir
Putin is completelymisunderstood and you know
you're not looking at it rightor whatever, and you just go OK,
go with God, man, do your thing, and so I don't really engage

(06:15):
the way I used to, but I don'tlike to, you know, like get
acidic like some people do, justimmediately.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
They're just looking for a fight, they're trying to
start a fight and then they'retrying to keep a fight going and
, and, and I don't see the pointin that.
I you know I shouldn't say thisout loud, but if I get people
who comment like that, I'musually just like block right
away.
Block yeah and you know thething is, what we have is we
have 270 million adults in theus and when we look at social

(06:43):
media, you really have, you know, you have echo chambers.
Yeah, People that are hoppingon there.
They may have a hundredthousand followers, they may
have a million followers, amillion out of 270 million
adults.
And think about it this waythey are speaking to the same
echo chamber, meaning when theysay something some rhetoric they
are just saying it to fuel andwhen they're doing the fuel,
they're just burning that fuelto gather their own influence

(07:06):
and their own power.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, yeah, they're just trying to get their clicks.
They call them outragemerchants.
It's like so many people justmake money on outrage and that's
just what it's become.
It's the nature of the beastnow, and it's kind of sad.
I, you know, say that I, it's,it's a necessary evil.
Social media, uh, for me,because it's, you know, part of

(07:30):
my job and parts of it.
I, like you know, I'vedefinitely, you know, have
relationships with people I'mfriends with, or whatever.
I I met my wife on Instagram,which sounds worse than it is.
Uh, we, we had a mutual friend,but uh, but uh, but you know.
So there's definitely greataspects of it, but at the same
time, it's just, it's just akind of a tough time to be alive

(07:52):
, because I noticed this when Iget emails from people and let's
say they don't like my book andthey'll send me an email and
it's so like vicious, and thenit's accusatory of like you
didn't write it or whatever itis, it's just like it's like to
the bone, mean, and I alwaysjust sort of respond like, oh,
okay, sorry, you didn't like it.
I mean, I, I, you know it's,I've written 14 books.

(08:15):
It it's, you know, it doesstand to reason.
There might be one that youwould like more and one that you
would like less.
I don't know that you shouldaccuse me of fraud for not
writing the book, but 100% ofthe time when you respond to
them, you get this feeling.
When they respond back, they'relike oh, I didn't know I was
talking to a human being.
I thought I was talking to likesome entity or whatever.

(08:38):
So once it's a human being,then they're like oh, I didn't
mean to insinuate that thingthat.
I just screamed at you.
That's the last thing I meantfor you to take out of that.
And so it's people fold up likea cheap suitcase and it's
literally like they don't thinkyou're real.
And then when it's like oh,when you're real.
So I had somebody yelling at meon social media today and I
could have responded with youknow, if it was you and me

(08:59):
sitting there having a beer,talking about this we could
maybe have the discussion, butas it is now, you just want to
kind of like snipe and it's justnot worth it to me.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Oh, that's right, oh sorry.
No, it's like now that they'vemonetized, I mean they even have
a word for it.
It used to be clickbait, wasthe thing, now it's rage bait
and people get paid off of howmuch interaction they get.
And who gets more interactionthan the people who anger you?

Speaker 2 (09:21):
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
But the world of the internet can take you down some
really interesting rabbit holes,which I found an article that
you had for in good housekeeping, which is not the place.
I would ever look for a moregreeny article, but I found this
one really interesting and itkind of touches on something
that Jason's been doing, wherehe's been trying to find

(09:44):
guidance and, like you know,correlate guidance for people
who are transitioning fromservice into the private sector.
Now that might not be directlyapplicable to the circumstances
of your life, but you've hadsome significant transitions
from you know, going and workingin the medical device field to
being a full-time author.

(10:04):
And then you know you call outbeing in your fifties and single
and now, all of a sudden, youhave an entire family.
Hey, thanks, covid, now I havea whole family.
How did you navigate thosekinds of major transitions?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, it's a.
That's a great question.
Like I scratch my headsometimes about how things have
changed.
And you know, I could besitting here sitting talking to
a US senator about some issueand then I go like, wow, I
waited tables till I was 31.
It's kind of weird that youknow, like like how life is is

(10:41):
just a thing that you know.
You just kind of have to stickwith and and things will happen
to you.
But yeah, I I always wanted tobe a writer and I worked a day
job and um secretly wrote uhthere in the office some of the
time and uh got got busted onceor twice um printing something

(11:03):
out on the printer.
But yeah, I never really thoughtI would do this full time.
I just seemed like such a dream.
But what happened to me was Igot published and wasn't given a
big advance or anything likethat, but just a mass market
original, a little paperback.
But I had that opportunity.

(11:25):
And then they asked me if Iwould write a couple more in the
series and then, roughly thesame time, I was getting an
opportunity to maybe do someghostwriting some you know where
your name's not anywhere on thebook.
And then so I went from going.
You know, like there's no way Ican quit my job to.
I kind of have to quit my job.
I don't have a bunch of moneyand I don't have a bunch of
money coming in, but I have somuch work I have to do that.

(11:48):
I can't do this all atStarbucks, you know, before
going into the office all day.
So I quit my job, you know,just with my fingers crossed
that I that I would make itbecause I was committing to
writing and that was this huge,huge change in my life.
And then just like, like withAllison, I was married
previously for just a few yearsand got divorced and didn't even

(12:12):
think, didn't even know if I'dever get married again or
whatever.
And I met Allison and she hadthree kids.
I did not have kids and I hadtwo dogs and she had two dogs at
the time.
And uh, and then we met and Ihad proposed in January of 20.
And so I guess March of 20 iswhen there was the big shutdown.
So we were getting married inSeptember and so I was like,

(12:34):
okay, we're, you guys are movingin.
I mean, that's just likethere's really nothing else,
there's no other way to do COVIDwith your fiance and her family
, so, uh, so they moved in withme and uh, and so it was this
real shock therapy of everythinghappening all at once, which it
turned out really great.
But uh, yeah, it's just funnyhow your life can just turn on a
dime.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know, I always call it pivoting, like where,
you know, in the military, youpivot from one one area to the
next.
But with you, pivoting in afatherhood now is different.
Now is like, you know, whenyou're 50 or when you're late 40
, you're getting into arelationship and now you're
going to be taking over theresponsibility of being a father
, which is kind of one of theultimate responsibilities.
Yes, the the kids can havetheir own, like you know, uh,

(13:19):
physical father, what do youcall it?
A biological father?
But now you are taking on aresponsibility for their safety
and their welfare.
Yeah, and having that, thatfree form of where you can go
and you can research, you coulddo this, you could do that.
And also, you know, with socialmedia, you have to.
You know, whatever you say canalso come back on your family.
So it's like that must havebeen a very, very interesting

(13:40):
pivot, not just to be in loveand to have all the great things
that come with it, but now youhave this responsibility.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, it was a huge responsibility and I didn't
really know what I was gettinginto, but, in good ways,
honestly, like this was like somuch better than I could have
imagined that it would be.
But, yeah, I do, I'm protectiveof the kids and you know, from

(14:07):
buying a house with everysecurity precaution that you can
imagine to to, you know gatesand lights and alarms and all
that stuff, but then you go,well, all the kids are driving
now, so they just get up andleave, and then you can't be.
You can't really be, uh,protective.
We had this thing just as anexample of like, where you go,

(14:28):
well, I'm gonna just protecteverybody because that's my job,
and then it all goes to hell.
Um, I was out of town for workand there was a guy here in
memphis who was live streaminggoing around and murdering
people.
He was just driving around andmurdering people on Facebook
live and, uh, it was making newseverywhere and I, of course, I

(14:50):
heard about it.
So I called my stepdaughter andI was like hey, ava, are you
home?
And she was the only onedriving at the time and, uh, she
was my oldest and I said areyou home?
She goes.
Yeah, I was like, oh, thank God, thank god.
I'm like, just don't go out ofthe house.
Um, there's a guy driving allover the city shooting people on
on the streets and he's goinginto gas stations killing people

(15:11):
.
Um, like, just, you know, Ijust wanted to make sure you're
home.
She's like, okay, hang up.
She immediately runs downstairs, runs out the front door, jumps
in her car, drives to where herboyfriend boyfriend is a valet
parking cars, not even inMemphis, like the town right
next to us and races all the wayacross the city, picks him up

(15:34):
and then races back.
And, of course, I saw him aweek later and I'm like, hey,
man, I think I know you wellenough to know you were not
driving that bus.
He's like, no, sir, he's like Isaid I did not want her to do
that.
And then I was like, okay, ava,next time there's a madman
driving around killing people,I'm just not going to tell you,
I'm just going to keep it tomyself for your own safety.

(15:54):
It's just, you know, despiteyour best laid plans, you know I
have a plan uh to for anythingthat might happen in this house,
but it's all going to involvethe kids doing the thing that I
told them that they needed to doif that ever happened.
And while I was telling themthat at the dinner table they
were all talking to each otherand shouting over each other and

(16:15):
playing with the dog.
And you know, I'm not surethey're going to remember my
security plan for me coming upand getting them and they're
going to like follow me back ina tactical train to to the body
armor in the in the closet.
It's not going to go the waythat I see it in my head, but
yeah, I glad you know what, mark.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
I'm so glad you brought that up.
That was the next thing I wantto transition into.
Was, or should I say, pivot isthe protector aspect of it.
And you know you've you.
You know firearms are your life, whether you like it or not.
Firearms are your life, whetheryou like it or not.
They've become your life sinceyou started getting into the
writing, into the world and yougot that bug.
But now you have a differentaspect.
Now it's not just for fun andfor training and to see how they

(16:54):
work on the books.
Now you've introduced firearmsinto your family and now you are
actually the protector.
And I like to tell people outthere it doesn't matter if
you've worn a uniform or carrieda badge or have done anything
in that community where a gun ora firearm is a part of your
tool.
Everybody is a protector now.
So now, mark, you're looking atfirearms, in my opinion, as

(17:15):
someone that's a protector.
So have you changed yourmentality when it comes to like
okay, well, I can't just keep agun everywhere in a house, like
in a drawer and stuff, butwhat's's your?
What's changed?

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, just my, my own sort of setup has changed.
I have, uh, an AR that I canget to really quickly, but the
home defense weapon for thehouse is a, is a Glock 19 and
just one of those little like uh, four digit uh, you know,
pressure, uh, combination, lockthings.
Everybody knows where it is.
Lock things, everybody knowswhere it is, the housekeeper

(17:46):
knows where it is and I know thehousekeeper knows how to use it
.
And, uh, you know, my wifeknows how to use the, uh, the
remington 870.
She's not going to touch thear-15 and nobody else in the
house will, because that'sprobably something they're not
really trained on.
They've shot it out in the woodsbefore with me but you know
it's not that level of ofshooting, um, but yeah, we, we

(18:10):
need to get more.
My stepdaughter will go onwalks.
My younger stepdaughter will goon walks and, uh, I've let her
carry pepper spray before, butwe've spent a lot of time
explaining to her the problemsthat pepper spray will not get
you out of.
You know it's this ain't themovies.
You're basically just reallygoing to annoy somebody.
Uh, you know, for for the firstfew seconds.

(18:30):
And uh, with, uh, with OC, andso you know I, I think we're
clear headed about it.
You know I, this is my homeoffice here.
I've got weapons here, I've gota weapon on me.
If I've got pants on, I've gotsome kind of a gun on and um,
and then they, they know, theyknow which weapon they can
access in the house.

(18:51):
They're not going to go to thebig safe and pull out the 6.5
green more or anything.
They wouldn't know what to dowith it and, uh, the neighbors
probably wouldn't want thatanyhow.
So we have a, we have a a basisof a plan, uh, concepts of a
plan, I think, to turn this,yeah, I've noticed that with the
author community too, as I talkto more people.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
I actually went out to visit one of our friends,
Brian Andrews, and sat down withhis family and I went through a
whole safety course with himwith firearms and what to use
and how to use, because he's gotkids.
And it's not just the outsidethings of of the world with
criminals and stuff, but nowthat you're a public figure, you

(19:30):
know, you're literally a publicfigure.
You know ryan gosling's in yourmovies and hey, you know dude's
pretty cool and the thing is,but you just never know.
So it's always like you have tobe situation aware, yeah, of
what's going on out there.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, I don't worry too much about it.
You know, this is funny.
I had to go overseas to Algeriaonce, or I was asked to for
work, and I had a buddy who wasin the intelligence community
and I was like, hey, is it safe,or whatever.
And he's like, yeah, just keepa low profile.
And I'm like, yeah, they're notinviting me over there to keep

(20:04):
a low profile, this is like alow profile.
And I'm like, yeah, they're notinviting me over there to keep
a low profile.
This is like a state department.
It was like a book fair thing.
You know, it's like I don't getto do low profile and when I'm
traveling I say that I'mtraveling, you know, and I'm
going to be in this town and dothis thing.
My family's really wellprotected here and I have a
brother that lives literallythree minutes away from where I
live, which is super convenient,and you know, everything I can

(20:28):
think to do is done securitywise here.
But still, yeah, there's thatthing where you have to be kind
of high profile.
I had a guy once that wanted tobe my bodyguard and I kept
telling him I don't need abodyguard, I'm fine, I don't
need a bodyguard.
He was a little wacky, and thenhe sent me this text with this
long explanation of what mighthappen to me, which was super

(20:51):
freaking, threatening, and thefact this guy didn't recognize
it.
He's like so just picture this,you're standing there at this
event and you know this guycomes up behind you know
whatever, and you know involvedme getting stabbed in the back
and uh, and I was like dude, Idon't know if I at that point
you can't really explain tosomebody that what they just
said was nuts, because if theysaid it, then they're not going

(21:13):
to pick up on it.
I had a guy call my, my then 90year old aunt at like five in
the morning one day because she,she was the only grainy in the
phone book in Memphis, tennessee, so he, he called her desperate
to find me and he was obviouslysomebody off his meds or
something like that.
And and, uh, you know, then itcomes to this point where you

(21:35):
know I figured out who it wasand uh, because I had a couple
of kind of wacky fans and and Ilike kind of accosted him on it
and and then I just sort ofrealized that he was going like
well, I hope you understood that, that you know how hard I went
to reach out to you means that Ireally think I had the story
that we can tell you.
Whatever it was he wanted.
And I was like, oh, why am Iwasting my breath trying to tell

(21:58):
this guy that what he just didwas nuts?
You know, it's like when you'renuts it doesn't seem nuts.
So you know, I basically justsaid I know what town you live
in and in this state you live inand the next call is to the
local police department and I'mgoing to get, you know, I'm
going to get a lawyer on thisand I didn't hear from him after
that.
But yeah, there is, I am.

(22:18):
I've had people like sort ofthreaten me over political views
or things that I've written inbooks before.
And you know, obviously, goingto other countries, some
squirrely things can happen,never really that dramatic.
I don't want to like turn itinto like some kind of like
Jason Bourne or something.
It's more like you know, thecab driver was trying to take me
to go get some drugs and Ididn't want to go that level of

(22:41):
danger.
But really it's the people whodon't have a really good.
You know they've, they've losttheir mind a little bit.
Those are the ones that kind ofscare you because you, you, you
can't control them at all.
And there's, there's been abunch of other instances.
Any other instance I'll talkabout.
That person's going to know, ifthey see this video, that I'm
talking about them.

(23:02):
So I'm going to keep it vague.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
No, and that's fair.
I mean, it's the equivalent oflike every time I tell my 12
year old you know, why are youarguing with the five-year-old?
The five-year-old is not goingto get it.
So it's kind of the same thingwith these people who feel like
they have a relationship withyou based on how much you are in
the public eye.
Now that being said, you havedoes that?

(23:26):
Does that change?

Speaker 2 (23:27):
how you try to find your work-life balance.
I don't know.
I kind of blindly wander myselfinto situations, so maybe it
should a little bit more, but itreally doesn't.
You know, I'll go on a booktour next week and I'll go to an
event here in Memphis.
There'll be 200 to 225 peoplethere and I don't you know, I'll

(23:50):
be one of the crazy people.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Oh, are you coming?

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Oh, I hope you can make it and and so like it's.
It's like I don't sit there andgo like, is this some sort of a
security situation?
I had a situation I'm not goingto say what town, cause the
person's going to know I'mtalking about him and these are
people you have to be carefulabout but I had a thing where I
was like, okay, am I going towalk out this door when this is

(24:12):
over and this person is going tojust come up and kill me?
I don't know, I'm not, I don't.
You know, I didn't haveanything I could way to really
stop it, so I just crossed myfingers.
But it was another sort of oddsituation.
But but it's really very few.
I mean most people, you know,you hear about the one tenth of
one percent of the the dangerout there, but most people are

(24:34):
just incredible and awesome.
When I started writing Clancybooks, I thought after Tom
passed away, I thought I wasgoing to get a lot of like
negative flack because you wouldget emails, people like you've
stolen Clancy's name, whichisn't really how it works, um,
and but then when you, I went onthe tour, everyone was so kind
and cool and appreciative and Ispent the whole tour, going like

(24:56):
oh, I'm gonna get tomatoesthrown at me tonight, and it was
just very, very different fromthat.
The people that come out arethe people that appreciate what
you're doing.
So you know, I don't reallyworry about it too much.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Well, welcome to the world of being a protector,
because you cannot worry aboutit too much, because your mind
will eat itself.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
So when we get into the books and stuff like that
and you talk about your fans,you talk about reality
basedbased books and I can seepeople they read into it and
they think everything's aconspiracy theory.
But nowadays you're seeing alot of reality coming true.
You know you're seeing, like ai, for instance, and you know it
was great um, I think it wasyour last book where, like the,

(25:40):
the drones, the the robots thatthey're real.
You know this stuff is real andnow we're talking listen, I am
from new jersey so I've beengetting so many texts from
everybody about drones anddrones and drones and this and
that and what is the governmentdoing, so I can imagine you're
getting the same type of thingyeah when you're putting this
stuff into your books yeah, Ihave a lot of people desperate

(26:02):
to talk to me about somethingthat they know about that no one
else knows about.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
You know and it's not that none of these people are
right, I just I always go like,yeah, I'm OK.
You know, it's like I first offas an author.
You're not just sitting therewaiting for somebody to give you
some ideas or to give you somesource material to work on.
You know, it's like you'reworking on something else, so it
doesn't really come into play.
But yeah, there's people thatum will read stuff into your

(26:30):
books.
Uh, it really happened more inthose early Clancy days when it,
when, um I first took overafter Clancy, I think a lot of
people saw me as this potentialvessel for them to whatever
conspiracy they were, you know,afraid of or certain was
happening.
You know that they needed totalk to me about it and we had

(26:52):
to work on it together.
And you know I'm not aninvestigative reporter.
I make stuff up and I love tolearn about what's going on in
the world and thenfictionalizing it.
But there's there's betterprimary sources for me If, if
you want information.
Um, I wrote some book and then,like the Lithuanian consulate,

(27:13):
asked me to come and speak aboutwhat was in the book and and I
was like everything I know aboutit is you know is was in my
writing and I stopped doing theresearch after that.
So it was like I appreciatethat you liked my take on it but
, um, you know, I can tell youwhere I did my research and
those.
Every one of those people isgoing to know more about it than
I am.
So I, uh, I'm just trying tolearn as much as I can, to tell,

(27:35):
tell my story and then move onto the next story.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
You know, we did come here to well, we did have you
on here to talk about midnightblack and we'll get around to
that.
But the thing is about yourbooks, is?

Speaker 3 (27:46):
I am a fan with my emotions.
I really want to talk about thenew.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
I am you can take.
Right after this we're going totalk about the book and then
we'll get into some more topics.
As far as guns because godknows I love talking about guns
and stuff with mark but thething is, your court gentry is
one of my favorite charactersout there.
I've been a fanboy sinceforever and it's it's really
great to actually talk to youabout this because I just I got

(28:10):
to make sure that you're good.
I don't want any psychos goingout there and shooting you.
I know it's kind of weird.
It makes two of us yeah no, it'strue, though, it is a really
great character.
I love it and I'd love to seemore of tv development or
whether they rebrand and rebootit or whatever.
I think the character is greatand I think it is based a lot on
reality.
Based on my own experience withthe ic and and amos, we've run

(28:33):
into people who have that sametype of background, yeah, the
same type of cape, not obviouslynot the super, the superhero
type capabilities, because someof the shit it gets into is
going to come on, yeah, but it'sgreat.
But I love the fact that you'reyou're bringing in these
characters of life, because tome, fiction books are great,
because they they plant the seedand to the youth, whether

(28:54):
that's a female, a male or boyor girl or whatever, is that
they want to pursue the life,that kind of life, whether it's
the, the intelligence support orthe direct action operator,
they want to pursue that life,and fiction is what it does.
It builds your imagination,which also builds you to become
something that you can be.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, yeah, I I've.
From the very beginning, when Istarted reading Clancy when I
was a teenager, you know, in the80s is when he was really such
a great recruiting tool for the,for the military, and and
rightly so.
And so I mean I love to talkabout this stuff, I love to
learn about it.
One of the like funny aspectsof writing a really, really long

(29:37):
series like my first book cameout in 2009.
I didn't know anybody in the IC.
I didn't know anybody that knewanybody in the IC, or you know
that I was aware of Reallyanyone in law enforcement.
I didn't know anybody.
I read a lot of books and Iwrote this.
You know I've written severalmanuscripts, so it was my first

(29:57):
book that sold.
So you put things in the earlystages of this series that now a
dozen books in 14 books inyou've met a lot of these people
and you've met these groundbranch dudes and you've met all
these delta guys and you go okay, this is really dumb, this
thing that I put in there in thebeginning, but I'm stuck with
it.
You know this sort ofexplanation for things is not

(30:19):
realistic, and so at certainpoints I've tried to almost
retool some things that happenedto him earlier in his career
and just the way things are setup in the bureaucracy.
People ask me all the time atsignings is there a guy like him
out there?
And it's funny because I'vedone a lot of events with Brad

(30:44):
Taylor, who's a good friend ofmine and Brad Taylor was Delta,
and Brad Taylor is just the mostno-nonsense.
He's like one of the funniestpeople I know.
He's just a super no-nonsenseguy.
So I've been at events with him.
And then they'll ask me,they'll ask both of us, you know
, is there somebody like that?
And I'm like well, you know,there's stuff we don't know

(31:06):
what's going on and there'sinteresting things happen and
blah, blah, blah.
And I'll give like this threeminute answer of like you know,
there's amazing people, whatever.

(31:26):
And then they go to Brad andhe's like no, no, no, no, no.
There example, people are likeis there a gray man out there
doing this stuff?
And I talk about you know wepicked up an Al Qaeda guy in
Italy.
I can't remember what year, butlike in the 2000s the CIA did
and I think that the Italiansindicted dozens and dozens of

(31:48):
people that they decided werepart of this operation.
And maybe they were, and soit's like, you know, I might
write a scene where court blowsinto Lagos, nigeria, kills a guy
, slips out all by himself, andthe reality is, you know,
there's 72 support people and 16airplanes and all this other

(32:10):
stuff.
So I mean, you know, reallycool, amazing things happen that
we know about and that we don'tknow about.
But you know, everything's sortof shorthanded for a spy novel,
just by necessity.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
I could definitely see that Now, as you've been
crafting all these over theyears, you know, and the story
just keeps evolving, and one ofmy favorite things that you've
leaned into in the last severalbooks is the interactions
between not just Court but withZoya and Zach in Hightower, so
the three of them together, thatkind of poison apple trio, is

(32:45):
fantastic.
Thank you, I don't know how tosay this without any spoilers,
but Zach's kind of found himselfin a bad spot, and so has Zoya.
Are we going to get the threeof them back together at any
point?

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, they are both in a really bad spot as this
book opens up and I won't tellyou what happens throughout the
story.
But yeah, so I always say allmy books are standalone, you
don't have to read any of theprevious books.
But when we last see Zach, he'sin a lot of trouble with the
government and when you last seeZoya, she's even in worse

(33:20):
trouble with another government.
I guess is probably the simpleway to shorthand that and this
book involves both of them, soyou'll see what's been going on.
This book starts six monthsafter the ending of the last
book, so that's a little key,but yeah, they're fun characters
to write about.
I learned something when I waswriting the Clancy novels.

(33:41):
Clancy has this big crew ofbeloved characters novels.
Clancy has this big crew ofbeloved characters and I love
that and I and I liked sort ofdeveloping that as my series has
grown on.
But with clancy always, youalways sort of felt like you had
to have everybody in every book, um, the whole cast there in
every book.

(34:01):
And I don't know if tom feltthat way towards the end, but
you know, I think as writerscarrying on the Jack Ryan
universe, you sort of felt thatyou needed to have everybody in
there, and I never wanted to dothat with the gray man.
I always want it to be aboutthe gray man and whoever he's
with in this book, whether it'ssomebody from the past, someone

(34:22):
he has in a relationship with orsomebody brand new.
It just depends on what's thebest story, and so I never
intended for Zoya to be in everybook or Zach to be in every
book.
You know Zach had tried to killCourt in the past.
Zoya was an adversary whenCourt met her.
So they've had theserelationships that have changed
and they were all workedtogether, as you said, in this

(34:45):
group called Poison Apple andand I've always wanted to just
bring them in when, when it was,it felt right for that book.
Having said that, it felt rightin Chaos Agent and it feels
right in Midnight Black.
This story takes place, as Isaid, six months later and it
opens up with Court he's.
He spent the last half a yeartrying to get to Zoya.

(35:07):
Nobody thinks she's still alive.
He's the only one that'sholding out hope and he has
exhausted all the easy ways ifthey are easy ways to get into
Russia to look for her.
It's the largest country in theworld as people keep reminding
him and they don't know whereshe is or if she's even alive.
And now he's, you know.
The book opens with him tryingto make a deal with the Romanian

(35:30):
mob to put him on a smugglingboat that's going across the
Black Sea to Sochi with no ideawhere she is once he gets there
and really no context there.
So he's scraping the bottom ofthe barrel for what he's going
to do and he's a very desperateman and I wanted to open it with
that, just so you just see thedepths he's gone to in the last
half a year and what he'swilling to do, and kind of give

(35:53):
you a tease of what's happeninglater in the book.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
Well, I've had Midnight Black pre-ordered since
.
Well, the link went live.
But I think one of the things Ilove most about what you did
with the chaos agent is you didkind of give us that like you
never normally have all thecharacters, so every time one of
the characters from the pastcame back into the pages, it was
a treat.
As a fan, I love court I reallydo but there is something

(36:18):
special about having charactersthat you've grown to love
suddenly reappear in your pages.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
But you know, you start to really like them too,
so much so that my daughter's afan.
You may have heard thishigh-pitched squeal all the way
in Memphis from Middle Tennesseethat you couldn't identify at
the time.
That was her, with thecliffhanger of the chaos agent.
So she might assault me the daythe book arrives.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
We are eagerly anticipating this one yeah, well
, whatever you do, don't read itback to front.
Um, I've done that before,where you just anticipate
something so much.
It's like, listen, I'm justgonna be miserable if I don't
know.
So I'm just gonna go try andfind out the end and then I'll.
Then I'll enjoy the rest of it.
But uh, you know, as the writer, that's the last thing you want
people to do.
It's like even when I read thebook jacket cover you know the

(37:11):
cover that they write the littlesynopsis I always hate it
because I'm like you're givingaway too much.
You're giving away too much.
And my editor is like, yeah,it's called selling a book, you
got to do it, you know.
It's like I just want people tojust, you know, I don't even
want them to look at the coverbecause the cover might give
something away.
It's just a writer.
But yeah, well, I hope she, Ihope she enjoys it and I hope I

(37:33):
don't get in trouble with her atthe end.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Well, I have to applaud you one way or the other
Because I mean, it's one thingto take a character that
everybody fully invested, tohave essentially an ensemble
that everybody's a fan of.
That is a major feat, and Iabsolutely bow down before the
mastery oh, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
You know, it's just fun.
I never thought I'd be writinga series and then, as you put
these characters in, uh, theybecome kind of important to you
and then, you know, I I likehaving a lot of tension in in
the books.
So I always think, like thosemission impossible movies, I
love the mission impossiblemovies but, uh, not all of them,
but a bunch of them ended withall the good guys sitting around

(38:16):
a table having a beer goinglike, wow, that thing we just
did, wasn't that awesome toast,you know, cool thumbs up, um,
and everything's great, and it'slike I like to.
I like things to end a littlemore squirrely than that, you
know, a little more realistic,and so they don't always end
with everybody just, you know,giving each other a big group
hug and going off into thedistance.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
So it keeps it interesting for me as the writer
you hit the nail on the headwith those damn mission
impossible movies and everything.
You just can't wait for thenext one.
Now it's like I saw the previewfor the upcoming one.
It's like May or something.
I'm like, come on, man.
It's like the same thing withyour books.
It's like I want them to comeout and I'm fortunate enough
where I can get the.
They'll send me a copy of itahead of time.

(38:57):
But I, on the audible books,that it puts me into a movie,
like I'm like.
And the thing is with, like youknow, my workout routine, I was
walking, like I love to walk,for like hours on a time and I,
I need these books.
Yeah, so the audible versionsare incredible.
So if anybody's not really intoreading you know, front to back

(39:19):
books I really highly recommendthe audible version j Jay
Snyder nails it.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
He is Court's voice in my head.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Yeah, he's done such a great job over 14 years and
people like compliment me forpicking him and I'm like I did
pick him but they only gave metwo people to listen to.
So I don't know that I get likeyou know I'm that special, but
I thought he was great and he'syou know if I thought he was
great and he's you know ifanything just gotten better over
the years.
So, yeah, and I'm a big audiobook lover too, and every day

(39:49):
when I'm working out or, youknow, walking, walking the dogs
or whatever, I'll have a podcaston or an audio book on and it's
fun.
I'm listening to this SlowHorses series now.
I love the TV show.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Oh, me too.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
I was.
I was a late adapter to itactually met mccarran last year,
briefly and, and I hadn't readthe books, and I started to
watch the uh, the series andliked it.
But you know how you just getpulled away from something and
never go back.
And it was almost like it wasso deep and involved that I was
like I'll have to start it overto to do it.
And so finally my wife and Istarted over and we're just
obsessed with it.
We love it.
And so now I'm listening to theaudio books and then we we

(40:29):
still have part of the lastseason because we're so far
behind to watch.
So it's like there's been dayswhere I've listened to slow the
first one um, you know, audiobook for a couple hours and then
, uh, then watch one of thelater episodes at night.
But they're they're really welldone too you know, this brings
me into things.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
You, you have a lot of extracurricular things.
You know, with the firearms,when this tonight traveling the
gray man that's your life blood.
But have you thought about,like you know, a lot of authors
are jumping down to the realm of?
Hey, you know what I'm going tocover off through a non-fiction
.
I'm going to do this.
Have you thought about spinningoff?
Or you ever thought about doinganything other than a gray man?
Yeah, I mean obviously youthought about it, but have you
taken that furtive gesture?

Speaker 2 (41:08):
yeah, so I I've written other stuff that's also
military, slash, espionage,slash, political, um, and that I
figured would be all that Iwould do.
But actually next year I'mgoing to I'm writing gray man 15
right now, so that'll come outnext year.
I'm going to I'm writing Grayman 15 right now, so that'll
come out next year.
But next year I'm going to takea year off from Gray man and
write a standalone novel thatwill be a thriller, but not in

(41:33):
that vein at all.
It's going to be more of aheist caper, domestic thriller
type of a thing.
It's an idea that I have andhave been developing, so I'm
excited to do that, to dosomething different.
I will never really go that farafield genre-wise, because I
like thrillers and I can't seeme doing something horror or

(41:57):
fantasy or romancy or anythinglike that.
But I do have this idea forsomething that I'll, that I will
develop and we'll see if peoplethink that it's different
enough or we'll see if peoplethink it's too different.
Early in my career I had anidea for something like that and
my agent was like, yeah, you'llhave to use a pen name for that
.
It's like people are juststarting to know that name and

(42:20):
know who you are, and this waslike too far afield.
So so I don't know how I didn'tknow how any of that stuff
worked.
That never came to pass.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
there's no books with my pen name on them, but let's
you know, I should have I shouldhave rephrased that, I should
have said a new genre, becauseyou do have the armored series
yeah, yeah, I've got other stufflike this.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
it's of that vein.
But yeah, this, this book thatI'm going to do next year, is
going to be the first one that'sgoing to feel like it's not a
military thriller.
I mean, a gun's going to turnup somewhere in it, I don't know
, maybe if it's just on a table.
I don't know how far I can getaway from my bread and butter,
but we'll see.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Well, you brought up the word gun, and you know me, I
love to talk about guns.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
I think you brought up the word gun, Jason.
Hey, listen, you sit down there, listen.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, hey, we already know my story about staccato
and I'm gonna throw them underthe bus again.
No, I'm just kidding.
No, because I had josh on.
Where josh are you?
Or one of the interviews, godknows.
I've talked about staccato abunch of times and the next
thing, you know, you guys gotstaccatos in your hand and I'm
like huh.
So then I'm like posting, I'mlike you know what?
Um, I really gotta try one ofthose out.
But besides staccato, I've been,um, I've been really batshit

(43:26):
about this glock 40, 43x ohreally yeah, and I, um, I just I
was a sig 365 guy for a longtime, you know, and.
But you know, I tell people I'mlike, look, I have guns for
different things.
If I'm gonna, if I'm gonna wearshorts, I'm a little smith
bodyguard 380 because, I knowI'm gonna carry it.
And then I was into my my sig365, but this glock 43, and then

(43:49):
I got a.
Then, all of a sudden, you know, I had to wait around my range
one day and they're like, well,the lane's not gonna be
available for an hour and a half, so I buy a glock 45 and I'm
telling you right now thatglolock 45, I've carried Glock
19s in my career for probablyabout 17 out of 23 years.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
But this Glock 45 is one of the best Glocks I've ever
shot.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Really.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
It's a 45 ACP.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
No, it's nine millimeter.
What is it?

Speaker 1 (44:17):
It's the.
It's almost like the frame size, not the actual full frame size
of a Glock 17.
So the, the base is the samesize as the grip, wise is a 17.
Okay, but then the slide itselfis like a 19.
Okay, so like a four inch andit's optics ready and I'm
telling you right now you needto try the gun out.
It's combat Tupperware, it'sactually great.

(44:38):
Listen listen, staccatos havethey have their place.
I mean, listen, I have a lot ofcop friends that are carrying
them.
Now I have a lot of differentpeople.
Great gun to shoot, from what Iunderstand.
But this Glock is pretty solid.
Yeah, it's pretty solid.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I believe it, I have two Glock 19s and my third
generation is the bedside bumpin the night gun, as I was
talking about earlier, the gunfor the whole family.
Not optics ready or anythinglike that, but it's.
I've got excess big dot sighton there and that's plenty good

(45:11):
for anything we need.
You know what I just bought?
Uh, a couple months ago I gotmy first noveski rifle and, uh,
gosh, I love it.
I love it, I love it.
It's a 11 and a half inch.
I sbr'd it.
I got my paperwork back like inthree days.
I'm like this has got to be somekind of government setup.
I don't know what's.
You know, it's like somebody'sgoing to come through the window
, um, and, and I got a can on it.
I bought it.
Uh, it's cat is.

(45:32):
There's a titanium uh can andum, oh my gosh, I just got some
unity tactical like a you knowthe high rising uh thing for the
.
We got an aim point Aimpointmagnifier and I've got it risen.
Just put that stuff on thereand, oh my gosh, this is a great
gun to shoot.
I want to say it's hearing safe, or maybe I'm just.

(45:53):
You know, my ears are justmessed up, but I've fired it
without Ear Pro and it's loud,but it's, you know, it's louder
than my nine millimeter SBR withwithout ear pro, but I mean
it's.
It's pretty much hearing safewith this titanium can on.
It's a short little can too, so, um, it's, it's.
It's really cool gun, I love it?

Speaker 1 (46:15):
How are the triggers?
Because what I've been doing isI like I build my own ARs but
then I'll throw, like the risearmament triggers in there,
because I I noticed, you know,and ama, could you know, when
you're shooting theold-fashioned m4s or the um m2
or whatever the ar, whatevercrap, in a regular standard, uh
triggers are horrible yeah, well, the noveske trigger, I mean,

(46:36):
to me it's good I'm not anexpert on comparing like
staccato had me come out inoctober they were doing a shoot
of the new guns, um, and therewas a bunch of people there and
they were asking everybody fortheir opinions and I'm like I
think it's great.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
But you might want to ask any one of these other
people that would probably, youknow, have fired more platforms
and more rounds and all thatother stuff.
It's like, uh, it's hard, youknow, I can only compare it to,
you know, a limited number thing.
It's the same with ar-15.
I have a rock river arms ar-15that I've had since 2004 or
something like that, and, uh,it's been a really, really

(47:12):
reliable gun over the years.
But, um, this noveske is, youknow, it's a generation improved
upon.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
That it's really nice I like the idea of carrying a
gun that you're actually goingto carry and shooting a gun
you're actually you're gonnacare.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, you know I love .

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Believe me, you can.
You can go crazy on guns, youcan modify them.
You could do this, you could dothat, but the thing is, as long
as you can shoot it straight inyour practice with it, that's
the gun you should carry yeah, I, I agree, and I do have guns
that are just end up in the safemostly, um, but like I, I
wanted an.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
I wanted a grand from world war ii, like an original
ones.
My wife got me one for forchristmas a couple years ago,
manufactured in january of 1944.
Just really awesome.
I'll probably never shoot it.
Um, looks like I could, but Idon't need to shoot it, you know
it.
It's just I wanted it and youknow I have a.
I have my car off.
I really want to get like astainless Walther PPK.

(48:09):
I'm not going to carry it butyeah exactly.
It's like I would just reallyreally love to have one of those
, and so I think it's okay tohave stuff in your safe.
But yeah, you should.
You should really like trainwith what you're going to, you
know, carry and uh, you know, myjoke was like if something goes
bump in the night, I'm going toget my glasses on and then I'm

(48:30):
going to go like, okay, am Igoing for the shotgun or the ar,
or is this more of a uh, glock19 type of a situation?
It's like that's not reality.
You know, you're just going tograb it.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Okay, I got it, it is .

Speaker 2 (48:45):
It is reality.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
So what happened One night?
You know what?
I lived in a decent area.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
You know every work and things can happen, but there
were gunshots Every good storystarts off with.
I live in a decent area.
Dot, dot dot.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
We heard gunshots.
I've run down into my office.
I'm like, I'm looking around,I'm like fuck, I'm like, what do
I grab?
Like, so I grab this one, ar,because it has like the optics
and all that.
And I run upstairs and I'm like, but it happens like sometimes
you're like huh.
So that's why, when you saidyou have a bump in a night gun,
now that is my life.

(49:20):
I'm like I have my glock 17.
That's my bump in a night gun.
I don't have any optics on it.
I have a light, yeah, andthat's it.
But yeah, it's, it's true, youhave your bump in a night gun.
Become proficient in that gun,know where it's at and know how
to utilize it, yeah, I totallyagree with that.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
It's like uh, we, we talked to somebody a little
while ago, a friend of mine whohas a company that does does
virtual reality shooting, wherethey have the handset.
That feels like I got the Glockor not the Glock, the Sig 365.
I have discovered a downside toit, though, because, without
having to pay for ammo or rangetime or anything like that, I

(49:56):
may have lost several hours ofmy life and didn't even realize
I was burning them away.
I ended up having a littlebruise on the palm of my hand
from all the mag reloads,because you go through the
motions the whole time, but Iended up getting obsessed with
shooting steel and, well,zombies.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
But I think that's good for you.
I mean, that's time well spentcompared to we all could have
wasted time otherwise.
I have to tell you my onelittle recent security thing
where you think you've got itall figured out but our alarm
went off spontaneously in themiddle of the night and it was
just a door that wasn't closedall the way, and the wind or
something.
So it turned out to be nothing.

(50:35):
But you wake up out of a deadhard sleep.
First thing I do is grab myglasses, put them on, grab my
gun.
I'm all the way out into theentry hall of our house before I
realized I put on my wife'sreading glasses that she'd left
on my nightstand right where Ihad my.
My glasses must have been twoinches away and I was like I
can't see shit.
And uh, everything was soblurry and so like I just I

(50:57):
ripped them off and I was likeall right, I'm just going
without glasses.
Um and uh, you know,fortunately there was no issues.
I'm like, yeah, this one otherthing to check off your to-do
list at night is like not onlymake sure you're, I've got
glasses, flashlight, my phone,the, the little pistol safe is
all right there next to eachother.
It's just you have to make sureyou have the right glasses real
handy.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
As visualization works big time with that.
It's like if I used to do therehearsals like I was um in leo
in san diego and doing a lot ofdifferent things when I was
younger and I always used tovisualize what would happen if
that scenario happened andsometimes in life it does happen
.
Yeah, but getting back to thefirearms thing and having that
one weapon that you're going touse all the time and we're going

(51:38):
to let you out of here in aminute mark I know we've been
dragging you on here no, no, I'mgreat yeah but the thing is to
run, run it, run it hard.
I found out with my glock um the43x I always keep wanting to
call the 48, but the 43x is thatI put the optics on myself and
the screws might have been justa little too longer and I kept
getting double feeds because itwas hitting on my extractor.

(52:01):
And I'm running a thousandrounds for this thing because
I'm not going to carry somethingunless I run as much ammo as I
possibly can through that thing.
Yeah, yeah and I'm talking likecrappy ammo too.
I want to shoot the worst ammopossible.
I want it to be like bags ofjust crap ammo that might some
of them might be rusty, some ofthem might be old, wet, whatever
because I want to know thatit's going to function.
Yeah, you get the mostexpensive gun in the world, but

(52:23):
when you have one mag, becausereally, in reality, if you're
getting a shootout, you'reprobably only going to use one
mag, sure?

Speaker 2 (52:30):
if you're a civilian.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
I mean, we're talking reality here and it's going to
be anywhere from three to sevenmeters yeah so run that thing
and run it hard, but it becomepractical with that weapon
system, with that pistol.
Pistol, because the reality isand one thing being an
instructor is, I see a ton ofpeople what they'll do is
they'll become a basic shot.
Now you've progressed over theyears.
I've watched you, I've seen youdo the training, you've put the

(52:54):
time in so you can do, like,the CQB stuff, you can do the
fun stuff, but you're alsofalling back on your reality of,
hey, you know, know, this is apistol, I need to shoot that,
yeah, but some people will get afirearm.
They'll put four or fivehundred rounds through it.
Think they're proficient withit.
They may be able to draw theholster, draw with the holster,
but the next thing you know isthey're signing up for a cqb
class, they're signing up for anods class, they're signing up

(53:16):
for, you know, larp day, yeah.
And what I always tell peoplelike become and become as
proficient as you possibly canwith that pistol.
Yeah, because in reality you'regoing to be carrying a pistol
and you're and I believe me,I've seen every edc you can
imagine where people are sayingI carry this full-size glock,
it's a glock 17 with three magsand I got a fixed blade.

(53:37):
I got a bayonet in my backpocket and it's like.
You know, I got a trigicon andit's like, but the reality is
you're probably going to havelike one, maybe two mags.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I.
I every now and then carry abackup magazine for my 365, but
usually it's just the gun on mybelt and, um, uh, you know, 13
rounds and that's's.
You know.
They used to say like you'rethree shots, three yards, three

(54:09):
seconds, something like that,and that's probably, probably.
But you know, if it doesn't, ifit's not that much harder, I
would rather have more bullets,you know better to have them and
not need them yeah, exactly,yeah.
What if somebody, uh sometrainer I had, like tom gibbons,
said anything worth shootingonce is we're shooting twice, or
something like that great it'slike I think it's actually good

(54:30):
advice.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Well, that actually brings up something else.
I mean, this is kind ofinadvertent training, like when
you pick up the glasses thataren't yours, and you can't see,
well, that, well, that couldvery well translate into a
storyline for you yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, that's that's true.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Um, anything that goes like that.
I've done some opposition forstuff at SWAT school and you
know where you're in there withthe sim munitions and um, and
I've, I've got so much fodderfrom that, like so much fodder
from that.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
And uh, sim rounds are no joke oh my God, yeah,
they hit bare skin.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
It's the hardest I've ever been shot and like to keep
it that way.
But yeah, no, I've got.
I think I still have scars onmy left arm from it.
But I mean it's great Anythingthat makes you think about
things that you wouldn't havethought about otherwise.
You know, when it pertains tostuff you're writing about, I
mean it's, it's great.
It's great fodder for whatyou're going to do.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
I am curious, though, because we've talked about you
doing all this research and youdoing all this cool stuff to
actually get the experience.
Has there been anything thatyou forced yourself to do?
That, you know, scared the crapout of you, but you needed it
for the book, for you know courtto do?

Speaker 2 (55:46):
You know it seems funny to act like I'm scared of
it now, but I really was afraidto scuba dive at first.
I had this kind of fear of theocean and I was like you need to
do this, you can do this and um, and I love it so much now and
don't understand the fear or thetrepidation um, skydiving I
will not do and I've I've beenoffered opportunities to do it.
I'm like no, and I I'm alwayshonest with it.

(56:06):
Like people I think aresurprised that I'm honest.
They're like, yeah, I can takeyou up and we can do this.
I have this school in Virginiaor whatever.
And I'm like, no, I'm way tooscared to do that.
It's like I will do.
I've flown in the back of anF-18, you know, but I'm not.

(56:29):
Some places where I'm like,yeah, that's a really sketchy
area and I've heard bad thingsand you know, and and I've gone
and it's probably been bad butI've had good fortune.
Um, so I, I don't, you know, Ihaven't really pushed it that
hard.
I was fortunate enough to go toRussia when it was still safe
to do so.
Midnight Black, half of ittakes place inside Russia and I

(56:50):
used all the locations that Iwent when I was writing a Tom
Clancy book.
Fortunately, and you know, Ididn't have to go this time,
which I wouldn't have.
It'd be a very bad idea to go.
Something tells me you mighthave a mishap, that where he
gets left behind for a littlewhile, yeah, yeah, and then
trade it back for somebody else,but that could be a couple
couple years down the road.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Don't bring any weed with you, that's for true yeah,
yeah, yeah you know, one thing Iwould do is we've been talking
about this for a long time, andI talk about the other authors.
We've really got to puttogether, like just a little
shooting thing, even a charityshooting thing with all the
authors, because, cause you guys, I mean military thriller
authors.
Yeah, you know we got to dothat by you know.
Go out to Tennessee and do it,cause I need it.

(57:30):
I need a road trip bad.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I know people.
We can probably make thathappen.
That'd be great.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, we do it this summer because I got plenty of
free time now.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Yeah, I'd like to do that, 100% on board.
Let's do this.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
And I do actually want to see you in action
Because, listen, I do all themoto videos all the time on
Instagram, where I'm like I onlyshow some of the good stuff,
but I want to see Mark puttingsome rounds on range and I'm
finally going to shoot one ofthese.
Sam Staccatos.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah, yeah, I will have one, you can shoot for sure
.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
I saw Josh hey, listen, I always got to say it.
I saw Josh pull one out theother day.
He got a new box full ofstaccato.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Yeah, I did too, sorry.
Oh, I haven't picked it up fromthe FFL yet, but it's waiting
for me there.
I've just been.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Oh my gosh, I had a laugh there because I tagged
staccato and said, hey, listen,I will throw a thousand rounds
of the worst ammo through thatthing and give you a true test.
Yeah 23-year law enforcementinstructor.
Bullshit test through it andwe'll see.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
I just want to run it .
I just want to run it hard andI want to see what happens.
Yeah, yeah, you should.
When we get there.
First, I am going to shoot thehell out of these Glocks and see
how they do it, because Istarted competition with them
and everything.
So I hell out of these glocksand, uh, see how they do it,
because I mean, I startedcompetition with them and
everything.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
So I'm telling you glock 45 mark you got to pick
one up, all right, I will.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
I wrote it down, so did I wrote it down too, and you
know, I'm telling you that 43xI, I love my listen.
I took my uh 365.
I put a wilson lower on it.
I think I put an m carbotrigger on it.
Yeah, and uh, optics.
But this, this damn glock, nowthat I, I figured out this, the
optics problem, run a thousandrounds through it, no problem at
all, I mean, and the groupingis perfect.

(59:12):
You don't need no modifications, and that's one thing I like
about it, oem, you know, andyou're not having to worry about
it.
So you guys, um, that's enoughof my glock talk and my staccato
talk.
But, everybody, I'm reallylooking forward to this new book
.
I'm about to preorder theAudible right now, as soon as we
get off of here.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Awesome, awesome.
Well, I hope you enjoy it.
I hope you both enjoy it and Ihope to see you next week.
Aima, if you can make it down,that'd be great.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
That's what I'm hoping for, if we can make with
my daughter in tow, becauseotherwise she'd never forgive me
.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Well, I may be road tripping out towards St Louis,
so I'll give you a heads up aswell.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Oh man, that'd be great, yeah, awesome.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
I'm thinking about doing a little cross-country
little trip, so I'll give you aheads up.
Awesome, mark, appreciate youguys.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Hey, thanks a lot, Enjoyed it guys.