536 | Eric Immesberger & Brent Cartwright

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We often limit ourselves by age, thinking our best contributions are behind us, but life offers multiple opportunities for reinvention regardless of your current age or stage.

• Different versions of ourselves emerge throughout life's journey – from career phases to parenthood to retirement
• Finding your "why" creates the foundation for discipline when motivation inevitably fades
• Consistency matters more than intensity when building new habits or pursuing new paths
• The transition from high-adrenaline careers requires having a clear purpose ready for the next chapter
• Shifting from "I have to" to "I get to" transforms obligations into opportunities
• Physical fitness serves as both literal and metaphorical preparation for life's challenges
• Taking care of others provides powerful motivation beyond personal achievement
• Preparation before major life transitions prevents destructive mindsets and behaviors
• Success in one area often indicates how you'll approach challenges in completely different domains
• The discipline to show up, especially on days you don't want to, separates those who thrive from those who merely survive

Whatever season of life you're in, remember that your story isn't over – it's just entering a new chapter that requires the right mindset and consistent action.

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Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:20):
you know what?
We're just going to restartrecording Eric boom.
You know I was so welcome tothe protectors.
This is the new and improvedprotectors.
We're talking more about lifeand things that we do in our
life, especially for us olderfolks.
But this doesn't really justpertain to people who are older.
This pertains to people who aretrying to make a change in

(00:41):
their life or they have had achange in their life and we want
to learn from the lessons.
And because that's the thing,listen, I'm 52 years old now.
I talk about it all the time.
I am 52, but I don't feel 52.
I don't feel like this is mylast days, and I think a lot of
us.
As we get older, whether that'sin your late 20s, you're hitting

(01:02):
that 30 mark.
You're 30 going to 40, 40 goingto 50, 50 going to 60, and so
on you think your life is over,but it's not.
It is not.
But what you do is you do gothrough different versions of
yourself.
I've had at least three or fourdifferent versions of myself in
the past two or three decades.
I was agent officer, specialagent, whatever, leo.

(01:23):
For 23 years I was formercaptain Jason Piccolo.
Dad is one of my best versions.
But there's different things,there's different cycles.
My body has gone through A lotof physical cycles.
My body has gone through fromhitting over 300 pounds to
getting down to 220-something tojust getting motivated to move

(01:45):
forward and staying on that path.
That's why today I'm you know,brent and eric are here because
we're going to be talking aboutthe different paths we've gone
in our life, our lives and kindof how we could, how we've
changed these versions ofourselves.
Because I know for a fact thatthese two did not start off and
they're at that same place theyare now, because they are not

(02:06):
the same person.
So welcome to the show, guys.
Thank you for having me thanksfor having me back, buddy so
let's do something a little bitdifferent.
I used to do the q a thing, butI really I've got my life down
to 45 seconds.
Listen, and and here's kind ofhow I want you guys to frame it
as well is listen.
1990s, I was a.
I was a US Army soldierenlisted.

(02:28):
I was artillery active duty.
I was intel in the reserves inthe guard I commissioned in 99
as an infantry officer, decidedto go into the federal
government.
I was a border patrol agent, aspecial agent with the US
Customs, who became HSI.
I've been a special agent witha bunch of different agencies.
I retired as an associatespecial agent in charge in 2023.

(02:51):
In between there I got a bunchof education.
I'm an associate adjunctprofessor in a bunch of
different schools.
And what else did I do?
I deployed to Iraq in 2005,2006.
I did my time in Iraq in 06 asan infantry captain, but I was
assigned as an anti-terrorismofficer for the Combined Joint
Special Operation Task Force.
Nothing exciting no realexciting stuff for me there, but
the best thing I've done in thepast decades is become a father

(03:14):
.
So that's kind of how I wantyou guys to kind of explain who
you are.
I've got mine down to about 45seconds, so kind of give us that
brief 30,000-foot overview ofwho Eric is and who Brent is.
So, eric, if you want to gofirst, that'd be great.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Thank you very much.
Yeah, your career is impressive, to say the least.
So blocking it, the way you didthe 80s and 90s, was local
police, uniform detectiveinvestigator, getting a lot of
quick hitter, undercoverexperience, leadership

(03:49):
experience, which all thatexperience literally prepared me
for the challenge of ATF, whichI went into in 98, retired in
2019.
So almost 21 years in that, andimmediately five minutes after

(04:11):
retiring, I opened a furniturebuilding business Send it
Woodworking, and as passionateabout that as I was about law
enforcement work, I woke up.
So a phrase that'll aptlydescribe me and probably Brent
and a lot of the guys that werein the gun squad out here in

(04:34):
Kansas City.
It was a, you know, motivationwill get you on the playing
field, but what keeps you thereis the discipline.
The discipline where everything, any anything we do is going to
be done 110 percent, whetherit's, uh, going out to get a

(04:56):
piece of pizza or doing a searchwarrant, everything is approach
.
The way we do anything is theway we do.
Everything is approach.
The way we do anything is theway we do everything.
So when people have asked me,well, kind of summarize your
attitude and I said well, thinkof a motocross rider in races

(05:28):
like top echelon motocross, andI saw a guy interviewed once and
what he said stuck with me forliterally the last 30 years.
He said every single race I goin, there's only three things
that are going to happen I'mgoing to break the bike, I'm
going to break me or I'm goingto win the race.
There's no fourth direction.
And that's literally.
That could sum up the way Ihave gone at everything, and

(05:49):
that's both law enforcement andbeing a dad, three kids approach

(06:11):
all in everything.
If I'm playing catch with mymiddle guy, we make it fun, we
put the challenge.
It's not two guys just standingon the lawn.
I'm like, all right, now goalong, now go sideways.
I'm gonna make you die for thisone.
Watch out for the dog pyramids.
Uh, yeah, you know.
And the same thing uh, myyoungest, my daughter, uh, you
know, brent is her track coach,a cross-country coach.
Uh, she loves she goes.

(06:33):
Hey, he talks about leadershiplessons, just like you do, he
goes.
I love that guy, um, but I'lltake her on runs.
And again, it's the challengethat this and and my kids know
everything they could possiblycomplain about.
I've got a five word answer uh,to everything.

(06:53):
Like we're on a run.
Oh my god, it's so hot, can wejust slow down?
I'm like, huh, yeah, it's hotin iraq too.
Would you like to go there with100 pounds on your back, or
would you like to stay in aT-shirt and sneakers and stay on
the trail?
I think I'll stay here, somaybe I.

(07:16):
You know, good boss, bad boss,they both left for the day.
I was a different kind of bossand I brought that intensity
every day to whatever we weredoing, and it's served well so
far.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, we'll probably get in that intensity here in a
little bit, I assume, but I'mgoing to let you go.
I'm going to go now because Iknow if I let you keep going.
So, jason, here's the deal.
This is how I know this dude.
If I don't stop him, we'll befour hours later, and then I I'm
still like waiting to go andI'll already forget my, my 45
seconds.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
You know what this?
He would be the best person tointerrogate, hey, so tell me
about what you did on that dayoh let Now Brent, give us your
overview, and I really do wantto get in what Eric was talking
about.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, no, he's spot on.
He's an amazing, amazing bossand leader.
So we'll totally get to that.
So I'll make mine quick.
So if you caught my episodebefore, you know kind of a
little bit of my spiel.
But I graduated high school inthis little tiny town north of
Kansas City.
I was a cross-country and trackstar.
That was really kind of mything was running.
I was a little dude, I signedup for the military and just

(08:26):
like an idiot Again, don'trecommend.
I went to the recruiter andsaid, hey, what has the highest
sign on bonus?
Cause I'm just trying to payfor college.
And they're like, ah, we'llstick you in the art tote
artillery unit.
So for those of you know, right, it's 102 pound HE shell that
you're shucking around and Iweighed like 109 pounds.
So totally stupid, know yourlessons before you start signing

(08:48):
up.
But I got done with my activeduty service, went to National
Guard, went to college.
I was like I'm going to be inbusiness, marketing and
advertisement.
I dabble in finance on the side, so maybe a little bit of that.
And then, uh, so some of my,you know, I get, I get activated
and deployed out of my nationalguard unit and that kind of

(09:09):
throws a lot of things you know,askew for me.
I get they say, hey, we don'tneed um artillery men anymore,
we need military police.
So now you're a police officer.
I was like, oh, me and police.
I wouldn't say I was a bad dude, slight comical mischief would
be a good word that I would getinto.

(09:29):
The local police knew me prettywell but I never really had
handcuffs on but a couple oftimes and always got out of them
before I got booked.
So for me to be a policeofficer, people are like what
the no, no, this guy, I don'tsee that guy being a cop.
So, uh, but man, sure enough, Ikind of bit the bug and I ran

(09:50):
across my roommate, uh, fromFort Lewis, and he's like dude,
I'm a cop in Kansas city, youshould come do a ride along.
And so I made my way intopatrol.
From that point I went.
I needed something more.
I went to the undercover roleand I really found my drug of
choice to be in full supply andplentiful and never ending, and

(10:12):
that was adrenaline.
And I, you know, like Eric said, right, it's go, go, go nonstop
.
And the motivation level wasthere super high.
I was not one to want to sitaround until 1 o'clock in the
afternoon to figure out what thehell are we doing?
It's, let's get out and let'sdo our job.
I mean, it was the best job inthe world.

(10:33):
So I eventually got assigned toEric's gun squad, which is, you
know, one of the premier unitswithin the entire Kansas City
region, and that's where thingstook a turn.
For those that know my story onan operation that you know,
thankfully Eric wasn't therethat day, because he wouldn't be
standing in front of us rightnow if he was.

(10:53):
That's the one and onlyoperation I ever know that Eric
went on was the day that I gotshot, and we can talk about a
little bit of that why Ericwouldn't be here, because of the
things that he would do hardcharging but, uh, that led me
into right.
Eventually, they retired me in2023 for my injuries, and now I
travel around.
I wrote a book, travel around,do my own speaking and thing,

(11:13):
and I'm just, you know, out heretrying to trying to teach
people the lessons that Ilearned the hard way, so they
don't follow the same footprints.
And if they do, you know howthe hell do you get out of the
freaking hole you dug yourselfin?

Speaker 1 (11:26):
So you know that is a great point.
Right, there is a lot of uswant a roadmap.
We were searching, we'researching, we're searching.
I'm on YouTube all the timetrying to figure out my next
step when it comes to like youknow whether it's going to be
like, I'm going to do 5k, I'mgoing to do this, I'm going to
do 5k, I'm going to do this, I'mgoing to do that.
But there there are certainroadmaps you get from someone
who has experience.

(11:46):
I could look on YouTube and belike, okay, I want to do this,
um, but a lot of times I'll popup with a video of a 20 year old
kid who has no.
Hey, yeah, they have a certainexperience, but their, their
body and their mind is a littlebit different than what mine is.
And one common thread that I'veseen talking to both of you guys
is all in, all in is kind of amantra that a lot of people have

(12:07):
.
They do all in, but there is anissue with all in.
You go all in, but you forgetabout that other word
consistency and discipline.
So you can go all in, but yougot to remember you have to be
able to maintain it.
It's a marathon.
So, like, let's say, you'regoing to start the woodworking
business.

(12:28):
You know you go all in, butthen you hit a roadblock or
something else in life happensand you kind of go away from it.
So you lose that discipline.
You lose that, you know thatdrive.
But the thing is, how do wemaintain this discipline?
How do we maintain this tempoof being all in?
And it does come down toconsistency and it doesn't come

(12:53):
down to like you have to be 100%every day.
You can be all in, but you'restill at the end of the day
you're like, oh man, I need abreak.
But you take a break, but thenyou get right back into it.
So what are your guys' thoughtsabout when you're pivoting into
a different role, andespecially post-career?
That's really what I want tolook at now is because you guys
have both been all in in the LEOworld.
Yeah, that's great.

(13:13):
You could do that for a longtime, because you know what your
job is, you know where yourresponsibilities are and you
know how to do it.
But when you pivot into thesenext roles and you go all in,
how do you maintain thatdiscipline and consistency?

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Eric, you go ahead.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Buddy and Eric is there.
Like a safe word we should sayIf it's over 30 minutes.
Do we like say hey?

Speaker 3 (13:43):
Believe it or not, I did have like a safe word in the
gun squad out here in KansasCity.
There was a big platypus on mygoing away cake.
The guys Again.
I surrounded myself with peoplejust a little bit smarter, a

(14:07):
little bit tougher, a little biteverything than me.
My role was to create literallya free fire zone where the
investigators, cops, could becops and provide them every.
Nobody gets to piss in ourcircle but we get to piss

(14:30):
outside on everybody else'scircle.
You got to know where theguardrails are.
I always like to go to the edgeof the cliff.
I take a gander over it, but Iknow not to step over it.
So, maintaining the discipline,um, you gotta have.
You know the military is big onthe specialized units with the

(14:53):
why you have to have.
Why am I doing this?
Why am I seeing the guys I workwith more than I see my own
family?
I'm not making $2 million ayear doing this, so the payoff
is really satisfaction.
And are you drilling a hole inthe boat of society?

(15:16):
Or are you rowing a boat andare you really making a
difference?
Are you really helping people?
So I always in in other newsinterviews I've done.
Yeah, why do you do this?
The um 20 year old single mompushing a stroller on truce
avenue in kansas city, which isan absolute shithole uh, 12 year

(15:41):
kid, same place, no options,surrounded by mayhem, can't
fight for himself.
So that's where we come in.
We get to fight for the goodpeople that can't.
And so my oldest son has beenin the military for about seven

(16:05):
years now and he had approachedme in high school and said hey,
he lived on the water.
He was well on his way in highschool to becoming a certified
captain to run a commercialvessel on Long Island.

(16:26):
So this kid in 12th grade had atwin diesel 36 foot commercial
boat, paid for, and he wouldregularly, him and his friends,
60 miles offshore in the canyonsgoing shark fishing, free
diving.
He, his life was the water.

(16:46):
So he's like hey, dad, I uhthinking about the Navy.
Okay, good, why do you want todo that?
He says well, you know, I lovethe water, I love the boats, I
love all of that.
And super patriotic kid, he'slike I want to, I want to do

(17:07):
something special, I want towork with the best, I want to be
all I can be.
And so I'll let you behind thelittle curtain of why I left ATI
.
I was the guy that said I'm notleaving this job until the last
day, the last second mandatoryretirement.
And I left 18 months beforethat.
Why?

(17:27):
So, when my son was in collegeand he was really training,
training to get into the Navy,he was in the delayed entry
program.
He had been working to get aspecial warfare contract, which
he got, but he was two monthsfrom shipping out and I said,

(17:53):
all right, I'm going to leaveearly.
So I got the last 60 days whereI'm really going to be able to
see you every day and we'regoing to be at the high school
track every day.
We're in a 430 club every day.
Push, push, push, Go, go, go.
Try and keep up with the oldman.
And you know that didn't lastlong and I was trying to keep up

(18:13):
with him.
But he made it to Naval SpecialWarfare, not in a role that is
the face of the special warfare,but he's in a very tight

(18:34):
special unit group and wheneveranybody says, well, what is he
doing in the Navy, I'm like well, he's into benefits Him and his
guys make sure people get whatthey got coming to them and they
are brutally good at what theydo.

(18:56):
Um, so, and that led to mymiddle guy.
Now he wants to be he's lookingat Marsock Marines a Raider.
They brought that word backfrom World War II so he got into
the 430 club.
It could take him to the trackevery day and Brent is also his

(19:19):
coach now.
So you know long-winded answerto your proposition, but the why
I think you got.
If you don't have a why, ridingaround in uniform is awesome.
You have to make a difference.
But if you, you know that's themotivation, but the discipline,

(19:41):
the why, why am I doing this?
That will literally take youthrough the worst times and see
you through everything.
I think.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
You know there's got to be a secret sauce.
What are these people doingthat's going to get them up and
get them running, get themmotivated and keep them
motivated.
But if you don't have a whybehind it, or a mission or
something that's going to havean end state or wins, you have

(20:16):
to.
I tell people all the time whenyou do something, you have to
have a win.
You have to, you have to have awin.
That's why I started doing likecompetition shooting at one
time.
I still do it.
That's why I do the 5Ks,because to me, winning is
getting over the finish line.
Hey, I'm slow, I'm a turtleclub, but anything I do, it's
like whether or not it's goingto be a ruck in the afternoon,

(20:37):
whether or not it's going to goto the gym, getting there, doing
it, finishing it is a win.
The thing is, if you don't havea why, why am I doing all this
stuff?
And it's the same thing withyou.
Why are you doing all thisstuff?
Your why was your next missionwas hey, you know what.
My kids need me.
They need their dad more thanthis job needs me.
And you said hey, you know what, I'm going to step out.

(20:57):
My why is now getting them tobe successful.
And that mission will never end.
That mission will never enduntil you're in the grave.
But that's your why.
That keeps you up, that keepsyou motivated.
When I do any of these stuffnow, when I do these 5Ks and
stuff, I'm doing them with mydaughter.
My why is for her to look at meand go, wow, my dad is not in a
grave.

(21:17):
My dad may be in his 50s, buthe's moving, he's pushing.
I throw the ball with my sonevery day.
He's, he's um.
Not every day, johnny, I'msorry, buddy, I try to do it
every day, but I get out therewith him.
I throw the ball because he's,he's in football and stuff, but
I'm mobile, I'm flexible, I'mable to move.
My why is to get up and do it.
That is what we need.
Is we need the why?

(21:38):
You know, brent, he hit thedarkest times in his life, the
darkest times in his life.
Shot, bleeding out life,thought his life was over.
But he got a new why.
Your why will shift.
It doesn't always change, butonce you have it, the main thing
is to continue to be consistentwith it.

(22:01):
You're going to have thosemornings, those nights, those
days that are just really roughto do it, to get on it, not to.
You're like, yeah, you knowwhat one day turns into two days
, three days, four days, fivedays and the next thing you know
you're wise out the door,you're sitting on a couch or an
e-mobile.
So when I'm looking at you guys, I'm like, huh, okay, so let's
talk about that too well, I see,you know.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
So I look at it as and that's why you know, eric's
brought it up a couple times uh,the guy that I ran cross
country for in high school isstill the freaking coach across
country, the same same hometown,right, and I reached out to him
and I was like man, you know,I'm retired.
I got a lot of extra time in myhands.
Uh, you know, I didn't want tojust sit on my hands and not do
anything, but I also looked at,you know, some of these kids and

(22:46):
I, you know, similar to when Itravel around I talk to
different police you know,usually it's police and training
conferences and military folksuh, you see, some of the younger
folks, not not just theselittle junior, high or high
school kids, but younger folkswithin law enforcement, and it's
there's.
It's a difference when you lookat the motivation from some of

(23:08):
the older farts, like me andEric.
Of course he's a little olderthan me, but you look at it, I'm
like man.
I really wanted to make achange and a difference in
people, the way I used to alwayshave.
That was my why and the missionwas and I know I'm making a
difference Now buying a halfounce of meth here or there.
Uh wasn't necessarily the bigthing, but uh, you never know,

(23:30):
when you kick that door in, thathalf ounce could turn into be
something you know huge.
Uh, I mean, that's held eric.
That's what we did when we webusted, uh what, the dude that
turned in the casino night.
That was a half ounce meth bythe started that thing and it
turned into a big wiretap andall and you know what we ended a
reign of a lot of people.
So you never know where thesesmall things you know balloon

(23:51):
and blossom.
But yeah, man, I turned it intolike I'm going to motivate and
I'm going to use the knowledgeand the skill set that I have as
a leader and a motivator fromall these other things I've done
, motivator from all these otherthings I've done, and I'm going
to bring it to people, theyoung people, because the days
and age now where everybody justwants to stare at the phone and
they have a hard timecommunicating, well, I'm like,

(24:13):
put that phone away.
We're running, we're talkingwhen we're running and let's
talk about you know the why, andrunning I mean it's you know,
and let's bring in the lessonsto it and make them better
runners because there's a pointwhere you can just go out and,
like everybody else, goes outand runs like everybody does.
You're going to have naturaltalents going to bring you so
far.
Your, your, uh, training willbring you so far.

(24:36):
But that key that's going tomake you the winner to your best
of who you are, is your mentalmindset, and people just over us
they overlook that completely.
So we did a huge big trip withour cross country team and I got
you know, the coach puts outthe hey, what want to have a
coach lesson every night atdinner around this campfire?

(24:57):
What do we want?
What do you want to talk about?
I grabbed the list.
I was like, oh, I'm going tocherry pick, right, and I found
the one.
It was mental toughness.
I'm like, yeah, get out of here, you're all, you're all sitting
down, because that's what I'mtalking about.
Uh, and it was because thatmakes, in my mind, the biggest
difference and people just don'teven realize it.
Man, like everybody else, goesout, run six miles a day.

(25:17):
Some people have a littlebetter talent, some people don't
, but this is the guy, that inthe girl that can go out and
just like, physically, pushthemselves past the brink of
what they think their body cando, because they're just
absolutely tougher.
That's your winners.
So that's where I get at it andthat's going to carry over in
life and in their careersthroughout.

(25:39):
I mean, if they can go out thereand push past and I'm not
saying work yourself to deathlike me and Eric did out there
and push past, and I'm notsaying work yourself to death
like me and Eric did right, thatwas maybe, it's true to say it
was probably detrimental to alot of things.
Right, I mean.
But there's something to besaid.
Like you know, the purelysuccessful people can know to

(25:59):
push themselves further, butthen the real successful people
that want to have success intheir home life know when to
walk and step away and step backat times and enjoy and not miss
out on all this stuff.
I mean I know me and Eric, andprobably you, jason, have missed
out on a lot of stuff for thesake of our community and our
country.
But I wouldn't trade it in, butI think people need to make
sure they don't go too far onthat.

(26:21):
You know, commitment level.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
Indeed, one of my jobs as running the gun squad,
which was a task force group inKansas City, missouri, talent
acquisition I didn't need thefastest people, the smartest
people, the strongest people, Ineeded the right people.

(26:49):
And when I first met Brent, hewas in the undercover squad in
our secret, squirrel littlebuilding that you could drive
past a hundred times and youwould have no idea what was
behind those brick walls.
Um, and I so every specializedunit, the elite of the, the

(27:12):
elite the, the heavy duty gangpeople, undercover squad,
interdiction squad, the gunsquad, the career criminal squad
all in the same building and Igot to see the elite of the
police department every day.

(27:32):
So we would need undercoversbeyond what we had in the task
force group to do stuff.
So I heard about this guy,brent, got to meet him, but then
he did a few undercovers thatbled over, you know, basically

(27:56):
for the gun squad, and I saidmuch like when I saw, took my
now wife out on our first dateand dropped her off without even
a hug or a kiss and I said I'mmarrying her.
It was like when I ran intoBrent and saw literally
everybody was talented.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
He did give me a hug and a kiss, though.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
He was super talented .
Like I saw that extraextraordinary factor, the, you
know.
I don't know what it is, but hegot it.
He had it and I said, hey, loveto get you in the gun squad.
That would be like a home runfor everybody.

(28:40):
Oh, I'm interested.
And then I went on a campaignlike Sherman through Georgia.
Uh, slow, continuous, steady,dripping water on rock, started
talking to the, to the.
All the police department washey, I really want to get this
guy, I want to get the.

(29:00):
Oh, that'd be a great fit,great fit.
And I, I, I wouldn't stop, Ijust get.
You know, nothing is ever fastenough for me.
It's like if, if I see the linefrom a to b and I know that
that's the way to go, uh, it'snot.
I can never get to be fastenough to make, make the magic.
Um, but um, the campaign workedand Brent got assigned to the

(29:29):
gun squad.
I literally was like Bravo,what, what an asset.
Um, that guy's rowing a boat.
He's not drilling holes in theboat but drilling holes in other
people's boats.
And the thing is so one thingthat Brent had mentioned is like

(29:57):
half ounce meth by.
You never know what that isgoing to bring you to was
talking about.
Uh, we, the gun the, an elementof my group.
We were up on multiple wiretaps, undercovers.

(30:27):
We were buying meth through agroup and can't through a main
guy running a thing in KansasCity and he was hooked in
directly to a cartelrepresentative and the cartel is
alive and well in Kansas City.
I-35, i-70, dead center of thecountry, the two major routes to
move anything, and itintersects in Kansas City.
You might as well put like theit's the bathtub drain of all
that is bad.

(30:48):
All dirt roads pass throughKansas City, all violent dirt
roads.
So when Brent referenced I'mdoing this, I'm doing that, I'm
into a guy.
We knew our main target and thisis the beauty of Brent's talent

(31:11):
and reflective.
He melted into the ATF.
This is the way we do things.
It's easy, yeah, it's easy toarrest the guy in a wheelchair.
You just go up and arrest them,go after a track star.
Not so easy, yeah, it's easy toarrest the guy in a wheelchair.
You just go up and arrest them,go after a track star.
Not so easy.
Uh, or I need buys made intothis major guy.

(31:36):
We have no informant, we gotnothing, but we know who he is.
Nobody's doing nothing.
But we know who he is, knowwhat he's doing.
So we realized he bad guysetting up in a hotel room of
probably the highest qualitycasino hotel in Kansas City

(31:58):
there's some dives, there's somemiddle of the road and there's
one really nice one.
Well, this guy got a room in areally nice one and he would
bring his uh, sales subjectscome to the room and he had
pounds, pounds of meth and hewas doing a landmine business

(32:20):
and then he would go hit theblackjack table and he'd go back
to his room.
Go back to the blackjack table,cause if you're on meth you
don't have to sleep for like 45days.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
I'm going to stop you because that was I hit the
blackjack table.
This dude hit the high, highlimit slot, so he's like
dropping a hundred dollar maxbets on the slot.
I forget so yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
So Brent is got his undercover partner with him, the
guy that they were in the armytogether that brought brent into
the kent city pd and he isequally hilarious and talented.
Good dude, good dude, um.
So we give him a few thousanddollars.

(33:04):
We go.
Sometimes you got to make yourown luck and we need to make our
own luck tonight.
We need get in front of thisguy, do what you do best talk to
anybody about anything anywhere, about you know, any
stratosphere society, society wecan become best friends with

(33:26):
and try to get by.
They make contact.
They start bullshitting thisguy in the casino.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
I was hugging all on him to man.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
Brent is.
Hollywood missed out on gettingthis guy 15 years ago, cause he
, literally he's got a talentthat very, very few undercovers
are able to bring to the tableinstantaneously the ability to

(33:57):
get somebody to like you andwant to hang out with you and
want to.
I don't know who you are, butI'll sell you three ounces of
meth.
Yeah, follow me.
And coupled with Brent and hispartner, they can't lose.
They could have closed theireyes and bet on how many times

(34:22):
the phone's going to ring at thepit bull One again.
They couldn't lose.
They're making money.
They're making money.
And they made contact with thebad guy.
Back to the room Buy meth, boom, positive, great conversation.
Back to the room buy meth, boom, positive, great conversation.

(34:44):
Back to the, to the casino.
And they can't lose.
They can't lose.
Now I'm the uh, on-scenecommander of this out the osc,
as they call it.
And then there's a case agentthat's running the case.
I'm you know.
I don't know what I, I stillknow how to handcuff,
fingerprint and get coffee forpeople, but I'm responsible for

(35:06):
everything that's good, bad,whatever happens.
That's on you, big guy.
Well, unbeknownst to me, well,unbeknownst to me, brent calls
the case agent and says hey,positive buy, positive
conversation, fantastic, andI've won several thousand

(35:28):
dollars.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
I've turned 800 bucks into like six grand.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah, Well, what does the case agent tell him?
He says you can't win money.
You can't win money, you can'tbring back to the table more.
So the conversation goes justlose it all.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
I was like dude, let me go back and buy him out.
I'll buy his kilos.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
If Brent would have called me, which you know the
right thing is.
If you're an undercover youdon't need to have three people
on speed dial.
One person, that's it.
Otherwise you get lost in thesauce.
But if the case agent hadcalled me and said oh, just got

(36:15):
a call from Brent, they're uplike thousands of dollars, I
would have said back to the badguy, back to the room buy, buy
every shard of meth that sixgrand will buy.
I'm like that's great.
There's other people that wouldhave said, oh my God, I got
enough to take the kids to likedisney for two weeks.

(36:37):
And some guys would have done alittle bit for me.
But, uh, you know the art of theundercover.
One of them is you need toalways be looking.
How do I enhance this situation?
How do I turn a into b and c?

(36:57):
How do I bring more people,more conspirators, into the web?
Uh, what are these people doing?
What are they up to?
How do they do this?
How do they do that?
Um, and that's the skill thatthat brent had.
And we still laugh about thatcasino night because I'm like,
oh my god, jason here I.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
The guy tells me lose all this money.
And I'm like I, I can't, Ican't do it.
He's like no, no, you gottalose it.
Get it all back to the casino.
I'm like so I go to my partner,who wasn't really too in tune
to wanting to lose this money.
He's like dude, I can't, youcan't piss off a gambling guy.
You're gonna, your karma is bad, don't do this.
I'm like all right, well, I'lllose it all.

(37:38):
So we start betting likeabsolutely terrible bets, you
know, put as much as we can.
Out there I'm showing like 12and the dealer's showing a 10 on
the upright, so you're supposedto hit.
I'm like stand, win, let itride.
We're screaming.
I was like dude, if we have tolose this, we might as well lose
it, right?
So we're tipping all thewaitresses like 200 chips.

(38:01):
I'm like hey, bring us another,bring us another beer, bring us
some shots.
So you know we're the pit bossis rotating out dealers the
whole time anyway.
But it was like fuck it, let itride.
Woo, everybody's like dude.
He's sitting on seven.
I'm like stand, stand, I loseit.
I'm like fuck it, do it againwhat a life, you know.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
One thing I do want to transition into is, you know
you both have retired from thecareer, from the job, and now
that is a huge pivot.
And pivot I always tell peopleis like when you're in the
military you you're alwayspivoting left, right, reverse
forward, stuff like that.
You're always changing when youmove from being in this type of
career.

(38:45):
Talk about the difficulties ofgetting out of that adrenaline
flow slowing down to about 50miles an hour.
Right, when you're going ahundred miles an hour and
starting up where you're goingto continue to go your next
phase.
So let's get into that next andI know we have sent it
woodworking brent.
You're out there, you're doingyour things with the book and

(39:07):
and speaking.
So let's eric, let's talk aboutyou and like that first phase
is like all of a sudden you stopshort to to hang with your kid
and get him upright, to go tothe soft world.
So how did you transition andpivot from decades of doing this
stuff?

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Well, a funny little story about getting him ready
for the Navy and the 10 years ofhis life before that.
Because he said hey Dad, when Igot off the bus at Great Lakes,
you know, for specialoperations, basic training,
basic training and divemotivation every morning, just

(39:46):
you know, because you don't haveenough to do up there he said,
you know, I get off the bus,they time it.
So every bus comes late atnight.
And the shark attack and thedrill instructors they call them
I forget what they call them inthe Navy RDOs, rtos, something
like that the shark attack, thescream fest, the what left turn.

(40:09):
Have I done with my life?
He goes.
I had to bite my lip to notlaugh.
He goes.
It was like I met 10 of you.
You superbly prepared me forthis.
I was like yes, but thetransition, I don't know how to

(40:32):
describe it.
I have a thirst for everything.
I've been in bands since I waseight years old.
The law enforcement wassomething that fell into my lap
and I like if I didn't havebills, I would have done it for
free.
Literally, I would have paidthe government to allow me to

(40:53):
complete, have this mission setwith these people, and the same
thing with the woodwork.
There's nothing more satisfyingthan I made that and, crazy
enough, in 2010, I'm running anot running.

(41:15):
I am one of the supervisors ona home invasion task force on
the Mexican border.
One of the ATF agents had beena SEAL and had been a BUDS
instructor and he was also inthe movie the Rock.
When the SEALs you know theprison out there, alcatraz, the

(41:40):
last seal that's alive and theyfocus in on him, that's who it
was.
It was him and a bunch of hisformer seal buddies that did
that movie part.
So I said, hey, steve, what'shis name?
Steve, my family's coming infor like a week.
I'm not going to have a lot oftime to spend with him, but on a

(42:01):
Friday afternoon can you justgive my son a five-minute tour
of the Bud's facility inCoronado?
It's like a five-minute tour.
My swim buddy is the commandmaster chief.
He rose.
We'll spend an afternoon thereOutstanding my son's 12 years

(42:32):
old wearing a yellow golf shirt.
You know, he's just a kid thatloves life.
We go to the Bud's facility andhe gets to watch the Friday
afternoon follies and they bringthem everywhere.
They show them everything.
So I'm taking pictures of themon the sand dunes by the water.
I'm taking pictures of them onthe grinder doing pull ups and
push ups, standing next to thecreature from the Black Lagoon.

(42:56):
Oh, you want to be a frog man?
That's the sign hanging aroundthis guy's statue's neck.
The bell helmets everywhere,just guys getting blasted.
It's Friday afternoon, but everysingle guy that passed us on a
run said hey, master Chief, hey,master Chief, hey Command
Master Chief.
And he said hello back to everysingle one of them.

(43:19):
And he's like Patriots.
They volunteered twice,volunteered for the Navy and
volunteered for this.
He goes Patriots, every singleone of them.
So then this guy probably had ahundred things to do, but he
takes my son and brings him intoa conference room off their
quarter deck and he goes.
Hey, I want your opinion, Iwant this 12-year-old's opinion.

(43:41):
He goes.
I'm going to show you a little10-minute video.
We've put together a programcalled Bud's Prep, because the
people come in here we feelthey're not physically 100%
where they need to be Very tough, good, so they get done.
Be very tough, good, so theyget done with special operations
, basic training.
Then they got to go nine or 10weeks to Bud's prep, then they

(44:04):
go to Bud's orientation and thenyou're on the big field.
So he shows him this movie andmy son is like it's like the
first guy that ever went to astrip club.
And I'm like I'm looking atthis and I'm like I think, I
think he's found a thing thatexcites him.

(44:26):
So I'm taking all these pitchesand I'm like, ha ha, if you
ever come back here, I wantpitches in all these spots in
your BDS.
So I got all those, like youknow, 10 years later, awesome in
your bds.
So I, I got all those, like youknow, 10 years later, um,
awesome.
But you know the excitementthat I hopefully infused into

(44:47):
him to do the things he's doing,the, my 13 year old daughter,
the stuff she's doing.
My middle guy, what he's doing,um, and he's a brazilian
jiu-jitsu like mechanic, likethis, he, he's my, he's my train
, my, my, my 16 year old son ismy bjj instructor.

(45:08):
He's a mechanic, but it's all.
So I you know long-winded answer, because that's the only way I
know how to do it uh, everythingin life I was like nothing
mattered.
But what that moment was, if Iwas on a surveillance, if I was

(45:28):
playing ball with the kid, ifI'm watching a dance class, in
the moment 100, 110 and you knowthe other 10 things I need to
do.
I'll get them done, but this isthe here and now.
So, living in the here and nowand then transitioning from the
craziness of law enforcementinto run and send it, I love

(45:56):
what I'm doing now as much as Ilove chasing bad guys.
I couldn't love it more.
Fantastic, um, you know, fromthe thrift savings program.
Uh, being a government guy, um,to the point of cold sweats at
night, I invested in that fundfrom day one day, one day.
One.
Money, money, money.
Yeah, I got gotta eat ramennoodles, but thrift savings and

(46:21):
that allowed me to build out thebusiness.
Zero debt, um, provide aprovide, a life for the kids
that I never had growing up.
And I'm like, I'm thinking likethe 20 things I wish I could
have done, but you don't know,you wish you could have done
them.
Until you know, I just hit 62and I'm like I really wish my

(46:45):
dad would have pushed me to gointo gymnastics, because I see
these gymnastic, they're like,talk to some of these guys, like
, what did you do when you?
I did gymnastics and now I'm awrestler and now I'm a bjj guy.
I wish I could have done that.
You know things like that.
So all the things that I wish Icould have done, it's like I

(47:06):
make them happen now for thekids and I tell them and you're
gonna do the same thing for yourkids like I don't think there's
one thing you want for, but ifthere is, you're gonna make sure
your kid has it.
In the moment, having the whyand just wanting.
If I have 10 free minutes in mylife, I feel like I should be

(47:30):
knitting a sweater.
I can't sit down and do nothing.
Can't sit down and do nothing.
I uh, even if I'm I got thenews going, I'm washing the
dishes, I'm doing something withthe dogs um, yeah, it's like
there's no, like there's nodowntime, and I love it I think
that's probably your, yourtoughest part.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
I mean, right, he was so go, go.
Go now me, I can sit down andrelax now.
I, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Well, this is one of the.
The.
The pivot a little bit here islike one thing that Eric brought
up was that he had a little,and, brent, you're going to get
into your, into what you did too, but one thing is you had a
plan, you know.
You had some sort of plan toyour head.
Your mind is not going to gointo the.
You know a lot of people want toget out of the protector
community, whether that'smilitary, law enforcement or

(48:20):
first responders, is they getinto the destruction mindset
because they don't have a planor a mission when they get out.
You know, and your, your missionwas your children when you got
out and you already set up towhere, hey, you know what I'm
going to be able to take thisfoot foothold when I get out, so

(48:42):
I don't go down the path ofdestruction.
And, as we've seen a lot of thepeople we've worked with, as
soon as they get out, they startdrinking even more.
They, whatever vices they hadbefore they start doing even
more, and a lot of times Ibelieve is that's because they
haven't prepared their mind toget into that next phase.
And er, eric, I really commendyou for keeping.
The thing is, you were keepingfit while you were in, you were

(49:02):
motivated while you were in andyou didn't just hit a point in
your career where you gave up,so when you left you weren't
already in a dead mindset.
So that's kind of what I wantedto talk about.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Next was not how we keep ourselves from getting into
that dead mindset so, uh,anybody watching this, the three
guys you see here, uh, pt,physical fitness, physical
training is a priority.
Uh, if the body's not right,it's hard for other things to be

(49:36):
right, and nobody likescarrying the 20 pounds extra
linguine around.
I've seen the fitness.
I'm sick.
I just hit 62.
So I've seen the fitness fads.
Going back to richard simmonsand, uh, deal with me, you know
craziness.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Uh you do have a tony little gazelle in your house,
don't you?

Speaker 3 (49:59):
the fads come and go, but what I always did is, um,
functional fitness, and it'swhat I did with all the kids.
It's like so you need a goalfor everything.
This was always my goal 60second, all-out fight with an
unarmed subject can't shoot him.

(50:20):
What are you gonna do?
What are you gonna do?
Uh, 60 seconds is forever in afull-on ground fight.
Uh, which is where you want totake it.
And, and that's so, functionalfitness.

(50:40):
I haven't been able to do apull-up in over 15 years, like a
young and dumb youngster, whenI was on our special response
team, atf SWAT team, and we weretraining out at Camp Pendleton
Good idea, fairy comes in theroom.
Hey, wouldn't it be a good ideaafter training today, let's do

(51:07):
full kit pull-ups to failure,over and over and over, until we
somebody passes out, and then,okay, tomorrow's another day.
So the M4s, the full mag law,every piece of gear, the, the
level four plates, the helmet,everything, pull apart.
Max, I get down, shake it out.
Max again, max again, max again.

(51:28):
I uh tear both the rotatorcuffs.
But like every other guy, I'mlike I'll just eat better next
week, it'll take care of itself.
It didn't take care of it, so Igo to the surgeon and the guy's
like, hey, listen, your rotatorcuffs that destroyed, but I can

(51:48):
fix them.
But here's what I can't fix.
You had no cartilage left.
So, uh, you can do all thepushups in the world left.
So you can do all the pushupsin the world, can't do pull-ups,
that's over for you.
So I said, okay, good, easytransition.
I'm like, all you need issneakers, shorts and a five

(52:12):
gallon bucket to throw up.
And that's what I tell my.
I'm like, hey, bring a fivegallon bucket.
What do I need that?
Something to throw up in?
Because that's the way today isgoing to go.
But I need something to throwup in because that's the way
today is going to go.
Every day I'm in my drivewayEvery day.
This was my yesterday routine.
I did seven cycles of this Fiveburpees, five push-ups in each

(52:33):
burpee.
Then the elbows to knees, 100.
200-yard, 50-pound sandbagcarry.
Come back 15 squats, no weightsquats.
That's one cycle, seven times.
And that to me, that'sfunctional fitness.

(52:56):
It's like I am training forthat nut that is unarmed and
this guy's a menace.
And now his attention isfocused on you at a gas pump, in
the store, wherever.
What are you going to do?

(53:17):
Are you going to be able toprotect yourself?
Are you going to be able toprotect yourself?
Are you going to be able toprotect your family?
Are you going to be able toprotect a stranger that's being
robbed, accosted, whatever?
So that's my fitness deal, andthen I'll go to the track at
4.30, 5 in the morning.
The beauty of the track thatBrent isn't a coach at.

(53:38):
It's like a college footballstadium and they leave the
lights on all night.
Oh, look at this, just for me.
I jump over the locked fencebecause I can't find somebody to
give me a key.
Brent, and I got the track tomyself.
I'm like, look at me, I wasover there, but now I'm over
here and I'm like I can't.
I was over there, but now I'mover here and I'm like I can't

(53:59):
believe I live here.
This is like America.
There's no needles on the track.
You know the heartland calledthe heartland for a reason, um,
but that's my mindset and I knowit's Brent's mindset, with that
physical training and you, Isee your feeds every day.
You're like you're after.

(54:20):
I'll give you one.
I'll try to make it a quickstory.
This is when I had the LongIsland Task Force and I was in
my late forties.
Big advertisement everywherethe super Spartan race.
Spartans have the regularSpartans, the super Spartan.

(54:41):
It's about an 11 mile course.
I think.
There were 25 obstacles.
There was a swimming portionand you had to swim underneath
boats and, uh, I mean, there wasa cliff dive.
It was robust and it wasawesome.
So I get the youngster agents inbrooklyn.
They're like, hey, old man,we're all training to do the

(55:04):
super sport.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
You're training.
Well, you know, as soon as wecome to work, like we go on and
run and then we're in the weightroom and we're doing.
I'm like, uh, there's nofirearms traffickers in the
weight room.
Like, okay, good, good for you.
Uh, when do I train?
When I get home at 11 o'clockat night now it's Eric's time my

(55:28):
wife, hilarious federalprosecutor, and uh, hilarious
federal prosecutor.
And she would say, hey,chuckles, I got to get up to go
to work, you got to get up to goto work, but these kids need to
go to school and lunches anddogs and all the rest of it.
She goes you want to PT?
You know what time you can PT 4am to 5 am, that belongs to you

(55:54):
.
But after the bell goes off atfive o'clock, it's on like and I
love that, like uh direction, Ilove it.
Um, I should call my my wife,no slack mac.
Like she's half sicilian.
Sometimes you gotta let thatmotor run out of gas.
But she is like I just like thethe sun sets on her.

(56:20):
It's like I can't believe.
Every day I can't, I can'tbelieve I'm married to you.
It's like, thanks for sayingyes, thanks for asking.
I'm like you could have done somuch better.
I don't know what you saw, butI'm glad you did.
But all of that is yeah.
So back to these guys, eightwhich ran and finished super

(56:43):
Spartan, do you want to do it?
You want to try to do it?
I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I'lltry to do it.
So it's like three months outand these guys are uh, breaking
my balls constant every day.
Hey, old man, hey, old man, areyou, can you still do a push-up

(57:05):
?
Like, okay, challenge accepted,like any other test in life,
gotta know what the Got to knowhow to questions are asked.
So I researched a super Spartan.
I knew every obstacle, thepenalty for every obstacle.
You, you, you couldn't do theobstacle, you don't want to do
the obstacle 30 burpees with a,with a proctor in front of you.

(57:25):
Oh, you don't want to do theburpees, you can't do them.
They ripped the the thing offyour chest and, you know, go
back to the parking lot.
Good, so I'm training at nightfor this thing and I'm like
they're like, oh man, just tryto finish it, like your goal.
Your goal, we're going to tryto be competitive, but your goal

(57:46):
is just try to finish, good,okay, and these are like, these
are like in shape guys, andthere's like 10 or 11 of them
that are going to do this.
All youngsters, all in theirtwenties.
Uh, primal life.
We get to the super Spartan gameday.
It's at a uh ski resort inNorthern New Jersey, I think

(58:10):
copper mountain, stone mountain,some kind of crazy mountain
obstacle one.
A sprint up the double diamonduh ski hill.
That's how it started.
I knew it.
I'm looking at these peopletrying to run it and they are

(58:32):
gassed.
They Then I've been halfway up.
I'm like I ran till youcouldn't and then short, short,
stride steps.
I was like a Pac-Man going upthis, this hill, and the
motocross mentality, you know,going to break me.
Or I'm going to break the bikeor I'm going to win the race.

(58:52):
And the first.
So the first obstacle top ofthe hill you got to walk over,
like 50 telephone poles juststicking out of the ground fall
off 30 burpees.
I fall off like halfway throughburpee.
Thought I'm like, oh, but I wasa burpee machine Cause I knew
that that was the price to bepaid.
So I do that.
And all the guys, the old manjust tried to keep up.

(59:15):
I don't even see him anymore.
I'm like how far behind could Ipossibly be?
I don't even see these guys.
I don't know what happened tothem.
They're like bullets out of agun.
Then the lake, the swim.
You got to do this long swim.
Then you got to go under boatsand then you got to get yourself
up on a dock.
Like you had to know how to domuscle ups to get on top of this

(59:38):
dock.
Oh, couldn't do it.
Want to go around the dock 30burpees.
So I'm doing this whole thing.
And I get to the finish linewhere you have to fight these
Spartan dressed up steroidfreaks with pugil sticks and
then run through fire and crazy,um, I picked the biggest guy

(01:00:00):
and I ran right towards him likenon-stop running.
I'm screaming.
Everybody's trying to runaround these guys.
I'm like big guy, you and me,and he's I think he said this
guy's out of his mind.
You know.
A few hits and boom, I'm done,get my little banana.
And I'm looking around.
I don't see anybody.

(01:00:21):
I'm like, oh, they got to be atthe tent.
They're on their fifth beerright now and I'm going to get
abused.
I go, I find all the familymembers.
I'm like where's everybody?
They're like dude, you'refamily members.
I'm like where's everybody?
They're like dude, you're thefirst.

(01:00:42):
It's like we haven't seenanybody, you're it.
And it was an hour before thenext ATF agent came over the
line.
Mr, just try to finish it.
Old man, he was in a medicaltent.
He stroked out.
Well, I had a lot of capitalafter that.
So the older bosses than me,they're like to these youngsters

(01:01:05):
great, great job.
You really put Emmitsbergerinto the dirt.
You put him in his place.
I'm like fuckers.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Eric, you know you bring up a hell of a point.
That whole story is thatconsistency.
Consistency isn't just aboutyou know, get a come getting up
in the morning and working outall the other stuff.
It's it's just being steady onyour feet, it's understanding
what you're you just beingsteady on your feet, it's
understanding what you're.
You know what you can do inpreparing for it.

(01:01:37):
I don't know if that's reallyconsistency, but the thing is
like, you know, when we firststarted doing these races and
believe me, I, I, I used to whenI was younger and I used to be
like, you know, young Jasonpickle, I would do like half
marathons and stuff like that,but that's when I was in my
twentiess, but I haven't run inlike 10 years and we first
started doing these things I'mlike, oh man, I just want to, I

(01:01:58):
just want to not stop.
My only goal is to not stop andnot walk.
I don't care how fast or howslow I'm going, I do not want to
walk.
So you're not going to find mewalking unless, hey, you know
what you probably will.
Now that I said that.
But when my daughter mydaughter wasn't, I mean she did
track and soccer and andeverything.
But she never did a 5k before.

(01:02:19):
So we got out there.
She's running it and she's doingreally good and she's like I
said, and every time we go tothese races she looks around and
she sees these people that arelook super fit.
They're I mean, they look, theydressed, you know they got all
the gear on and everything.
And I tell her I'm like she'slike I haven't seen those people

(01:02:39):
at all.
I'm like, well, you know what?
I passed them about after mileone, because they're walking and
they may look like they'reincredible shape, but they don't
.
They have obviously weren'tconsistent in their training or
they don't know what they'regetting themselves into.
And that comes into.
The other thing really is knowwhat you're getting yourself

(01:02:59):
into and train for it.
The first step is that firststep.
We're all well over 40.
Don't sit on that damn couchanymore, you know.
Don't sit on that damn couchanymore.
Get up and take that first stepand then building, and then

(01:03:19):
know what you're gettingyourself into and you're going
to start doing crazy, amazingthings that you never thought
you could possibly do.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
I think you know with like Eric right, His mindset is
is spot is so, spot on, it'snot.
I have to get up at four, 30 inthe morning to go run, he gets
to, and that that whole, just asmall change of a mindset is.
I can't believe I get tofreaking, do this, uh.
And you know when people arelike, oh my god, I gotta get up,
I gotta go in the office, thosepeople are miserable non-stop

(01:03:49):
and you can for the hour thatyou've heard eric talk.
That guy is not miserable amoment of his fucking day and
there's a reason why he's beensuccessful and he can transition
into and away from the amountof adrenaline and fun and things
that that guy's done to nowfocus on the tasks at hand, what

(01:04:10):
he's doing.
I mean the guy has lost a lotof the fun stuff, if you will,
of law enforcement and thethings he's done and he still
has the right mindset of youknow he doesn't.
Oh, I've got, I'm oh, I've justgot to go cut some more wood
and cut some more boards.
No, he gets to and then he getsto do this and he gets to do
this and he gets to do this.
And that's the huge part, ifpeople can get to that right

(01:04:32):
mindset.
Every transition because everyright.
I know you've got your bookwhere people transitioning out
of military and trying to get on, you know, in different federal
agencies, the big part of thatis they're going to be miserable
if they don't have the rightmindset coming in and out of
that.
Oh, I'm not.
I'm no longer doing all thesetraining exercises.

(01:04:54):
I've lost all my friends andnow I've got to go in an office
in a cubicle.
I mean, I've been in a cubiclehell, it sucks For me couldn't
do it, I didn't have the rightmindset, I wasn't ready for it,
I wasn't ready yet.
And now, like if you were tosay, brent, you're not out
buying dope and you can't go buyguns and like, go pick fights
with meth heads, I'd be like,yeah, it sounds like a terrible
day that I don't get to do that.

(01:05:14):
No, I get to do a lot of otherthings.
That is much more fulfilling.
So sorry to cut you off on that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
Hey, jason and Brent.
So two quick little thingsabout the mental part, and when
I say mental I mean the driveand determination.
It's never got to be about you.
But I always said the measureof a good agent is not how hard

(01:05:44):
they work on their cases,because I kind of expect you to
work hard on them.
How hard are you going to workon somebody else's case?
That's the real measure of yourcommitment.
So atf has, like every other jobwe've got, we've got manual

(01:06:05):
orders that deal with every timeyou broke shoelace.
You have an order on that.
Uh, this is the procedure.
Thank god it was computerizedbecause when I first started it
was in every office in binders.
There was a dedicated bookcaseto the orders, the manual.
This is how you do this, thisis how you do that and you can't
deviate.

(01:06:25):
So I was lucky.
I had a lot of good successesin the career, went through the
boss positions in the career,went through the boss positions.
So I had a little bit ofpolitical capital because the
big bosses knew I was crushingit for them and, more

(01:06:49):
importantly, taking care of thepeople that I had.
So here's two things that I didthat anybody else would have
been crucified for.
But I had the capital and Iknew what I was doing was wrong,
but I did it anyway because myguys needed it.
So one of them dealt with a.

(01:07:10):
It was a long-term undercoveroperation that I was supervising
and very violent group ofpeople that the undercover was
almost half living with, whilethere was a particular
undercover that was going to bea pivotal moment.

(01:07:33):
It involved a murder.
It was one of those moments.
And what do we need to do?
We need to record those momentsbecause nobody wants to believe
you in court.
Hey, this is what happened,really.

(01:07:53):
Where's the tape?
Where's the video?
Where's the tape?
Where's the video?
Where's the hubble telescope?
Uh, you know video.
So this was like on like awednesday that this thing came
up and it was going to happen ona saturday.
Okay, well, I knew I.
I had an idea of wow, thisthing is just what the doctor

(01:08:18):
ordered for this undercover tobe able to get everything
memorialized.
And I had used this thingbefore to great success.
And there weren't a lot of themin ATF.
We spent millions on good techstuff, but I didn't have one of

(01:08:41):
these things assigned to me.
So I called up my technicaloperations guy hey, I need this
thing.
Oh yeah, we don't have one.
Huh, another guy that's doinghis job, he doesn't have one,
great.
So I call up the guy that runsthe National Special Operations

(01:09:05):
Technical Program.
I'm like, hey, I need one ofthese things.
They're all being used.
Can't get it for you?
I don't care what you havegoing on, everybody's got an
important thing going on.
Good, as Jocko Willink wouldsay.
Good, I had a relationship withthe owner of Adaptive Digital

(01:09:29):
Systems out in Newport Beach,california.
That was the guy out in NewportBeach, california.
That was the guy, his company,that was supplying the majority
of these things, a lot ofdifferent things, that just
cutting edge stuff, cutting edgeand his name was Attila,
believe it or not.

(01:09:49):
This is now on a Thursday andI'm like Attilaila, I'm in a jam
at we were using so much of hisgear, and we would call him and
say, hey, this is fantastic,but can you tweak it?
Can you do this, can you dothat?
And he would go, oh, let mesend you the greatest thing.
I'll just send it to you, t ande in it, test and evaluate it,

(01:10:10):
let me know what you think, holdon to it for a few months and
then send it back.
Let me know, good, we think,hold on to it for a few months
and then send it back.
Let me know, good, we did that,we did that, we did that.
So finally, now I got a dealwith attila because I'm like his
uh, my group in brooklyn, likewe're using the we're, we're
using his stuff, and he's like Ilove it, I love it, this is

(01:10:30):
great.
Instant feedback.
All the time.
I call him up on like a, tellhim I'm in a jam, I need this
thing, even though this thinghas been around for 20 years
maybe not 20, but I almost.
I can't say what this thing is,but it's a thing that could be

(01:10:53):
put in front of a bad guy and hewould come to an inaccurate
conclusion of what this thing is, based on accurate information.
Like, oh, I know what.
That is Not really.
Now, this thing costs $6,500.
The way they built it for us.

(01:11:16):
If you went into Best Buy,you'd spend a few hundred
dollars and you'd have thisthing.
So I call him up.
I'm like Attila, I'm at a jam.
Buddy, I need the thing.
He goes what do you need?
What do you need?
I'm like listen, I am going to,I'm going to FedEx you a
cashier's check for $6,500 in anhour, in one hour.

(01:11:40):
I need you to FedEx me thisthing.
Let him pass in the air.
I need this thing by Saturdaymorning and you'll have your
money.
And he's like yeah, done, done,he goes, I'll have my thing on
the way to you before you haveyour check on the way to me.
Good, very specific thing in theorders about how we use money

(01:12:05):
investigatively.
Like I at that time I had like35,000 in cash in my office in
the safe pay informants buy guns, buy drugs, drugs, and if I run
out of the 35 I get another 30.
It was an unending supply ofmoney for operational expenses,
called agent cashier.

(01:12:25):
What can you not use agentcashier for buying investigative
equipment?
It's a whole separate thing.
You have to buy that on thegovernment credit card and my
limit was $3,000.
So that was out the window andnobody's helping me.

(01:12:46):
That should be adopting mysense of urgency.
My own people are like give ashit what you think you need.
Okay, okay, good, these guysdon't know what I do.
So uh, boom, this check goesout.
My boss gets my monthly moneyreport and he said, oh, he
couldn't dial the phone.
I'm sure he lost uh small, youknow technique to.

(01:13:11):
I'm sure he punched everysingle button on that phone to
call me up.
And he goes what did you do?
And I'm like, hey, uh, I choseto not call you about this
because I knew theadministrative answer is no.
I needed it, the undercoverneeded it and I was going to

(01:13:32):
make it happen.
And we made it happen andsuccess.
And he goes you violated everyorder, every operational part of
the use of money.
Do you know what you've done?
This isn't like $10.
It's like $6,500.
You approved your own request,you took out your own money, you

(01:13:52):
went to the bank, you got acheck.
You it's like internal affairsis going to look askance at this
and I'm like I don't care.
I said I can, my guy needed it.
I went through the channels ofthe people that are supposed to
help me.
Uh, for whatever reason, I gotno help.

(01:14:15):
So I helped myself, I helpedthe undercover and that's taking
care of your people.
So I get a call right afterthat from the chief financial
officer for ATF, the guy thatruns the billion-dollar budget.
He's calling me over $6,500.

(01:14:37):
Paul Vanderplau was his name andhe was an agent and he was a
worker agent before he took overthe money.
And he goes, he goes.
You have no idea the peoplethat want to ice pick you over
this.
I'm like, whatever he goes,tell me what you did and tell me

(01:15:05):
why you did it.
I tell him the whole story andhe goes.
I get it, I get it.
You did for your undercoverwhat almost nobody would be
willing to do.
That he goes.
I am sending you a check for$6,500.

(01:15:33):
Put that money back in yourlittle undercover money fund and
this never happened and don'tdo it again.
Okay, thank you.
Moving on, nothing more to seehere.
And even my bosses are likebecause, uh, you like dodged a
bullet on that.
I'm like no, no, I didn't dodgea bullet.
I made something needed to bedone.
I did it.
I was like was like uh, clarkGriswold sawing off the uh, new

(01:15:55):
post.
The guy saw something thatneeded to be done and I did it.
Um, you know that was so.
That was, that was funny.
And a lot of people laugh whenI tell them that nobody was
laughing when they heard thatstory.
Uh, another funny thing takingcare of people.
Uh, I'm running.

(01:16:17):
When I was running the taskforce in new york city, we were
doing an initiative in the 73precinct, brownsville, brooklyn.
Boarded on the 75 east new york, it was like the most violent
piece of real estate in america.
It was out of control, likeit's been described, that clint
eastwood would be scared to gothrough there.

(01:16:37):
So we're doing this initiativewith the housing police before
everything merged into one bigbeautiful bill, nypd and um,
they're, uh, hard-working guys,but they are policing 40 of the
worst like projects you canimagine.

(01:16:58):
And we're doing surveillancesevery day.
We're doing CI.
You know we're making thingshappen, but you got to make
these tactical plans.
You got to put.
You know these buildings arelike cities, like if you watch
New Jack City, it's like theseprojects.
There's 50,000 people living inone project.
These guys got like 40 of them.
So I'm like and they're workingoff the original 1940 like

(01:17:24):
blueprints.
I'm like, okay, I could dobetter here.
I said so I go to thecommanding officer, an inspector
, and I said would it be helpfulif you had photographs of every
one of these projects that wecould, you know, have?
Oh, my God, that would be great.

(01:17:45):
Like, ok, standby, listen, canyou just have one of your planes
, do some you know photographs,put together some CDs, some
pictures.
You know the cops, they don'thave the money for this and they

(01:18:09):
need it.
Good, I don't think anything ofit.
And like, a month later hecomes in the EA with a binder.
Here's color photographs, hereare DVDs with digital everything
.
Oh, here are some six foot bythree foot photographs.

(01:18:31):
Roll them out on the table, pinthem to the wall.
Oh, my God, you have no ideathe thankful cops that are going
to have these things Great.
And you get a phone call fromsome boss in that car.

(01:18:52):
He's like hey, did you happento call the EA to to do a little
air deal, air wolf?
And I'm like, uh, why?
We just got a bill for, uh,thirteen thousand dollars of jet
fuel and hotels.
And I'm like, uh, do you knowthat we have an order to use air

(01:19:13):
assets?
I'm'm like, yeah, I know thatorder, but you know, I had a
buddy and I didn't think itwould be.
I knew it was going to be a bigdeal.
And he goes we have a $13,000bill.
We got to pay.
You didn't ask permission, youdidn't write a memo, you didn't
do this.
You violated everything.
And I'm like but I got thepictures, and the cops got the
pictures and we get to take themback.
And I'm like so if I asked you,would you have approved it?

(01:19:35):
They go, probably not.
And I'm like well, there you go, welcome to the federal
government.
Yeah, so my buddy in deaadopted the cops sense of
urgency on this uh initiative.
So then I find out, I'm like howdo you spend 3500 out of a
helicopter coming out of likekennedy airport?

(01:19:58):
You know how do you do that.
No, no, oh, we didn't use ahelicopter, he goes.
We used a um lear jet.
That was in bogota, columbia.
I flew, had it fly back to NewYork with a crew, four person
crew, and they had like a CIAdigital belly camera.

(01:20:19):
So on one nice fine summer daythere was a Learjet doing
strafing runs over these housesin Brooklyn and those cops.
To this day, to this day, thosemaps are still on the wall.
We use these all the time.
These are the best things ever.
And I'm like what are you goingto do?

(01:20:41):
You're going to find somebodyelse that wants to work seven
days a week in the stairs for us?
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
And while we wrap it up, you guys, Eric, what is
Sender Woodworking?

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
And yeah, believe me.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Eric, we could literally just hit record and
have you talk for another sixhours.
Now you've met Eric.
We're going to have to haveanother conversation because I
didn't even get into the wholerunning and the kids and
everything else like that.
But I do want to bring up Sendit Woodworking before we take
off today.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
Yeah, right on.
So Send it a little play onwords.
If you look at the logo over myhead, it's a saw blade with a
rifle scope.
You know, send it.
I originally had dreams ofbuilding turn-of-the-century
furniture Paris collections,1800s, revolutionary War, big,

(01:21:33):
big, big pieces.
But you got to give the peoplewhat they want.
And the people wanted epoxyriver stuff, whiskey flight.
In the morning working on 12plaques for a cross-country race
that brent's running at the endof the month with the kids um,

(01:22:02):
everybody loves this.
Uh, epoxy, uh creation stuff.
And I have been just as busy asone guy can be pumping out
whiskey flight boards,charcuterie boards, with the
epoxy river flowing down.
And then I figured out how tofloat stuff in the river.

(01:22:24):
Like, oh, you want two layersof coffee beans.
You want corks from your last40 favorite dinners with your
wife and your woman.
I had an Oakland cop a fewmonths ago, wanted an
anniversary gift for his wife.
Here's corks that we love, wine.
I floated all these corks in ahuge, like a two inch thick

(01:22:44):
epoxy river.
Um, I did a 3d carving of theirwedding rings, put the date of
their wedding I like.
Um, he said.
My wife was like, uh, I was ahero, at least for a few days.
Um so all of that kind of stuff.

(01:23:05):
It's like when I got my firsttattoo and I'm covered somewhat,
uh, the tattoo gal said I'll doit in red plaid, I can do
anything, you just tell me I'llmake it out, and that's how do
we Eric?

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
how do we find you too?
That's actually one of thequestions we should ask,
fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:23:24):
Instagram is, I think , the best fit for pumping my
stuff out.
It's the word send itS-E-N-D-I-T, followed by an
underscore Didn't know what thatwas till I had to do that logo
and then the word woodworking.

(01:23:45):
So send it, underscore.
Woodworking Brings you to myInstagram site.
You can see a pretty good depthof things that I've done.
The Highway Patrol sent the guyto the FBI National Academy
last week and they auctionedstuff off to benefit charities.

(01:24:06):
He wanted the Missouri TrooperHighway Patrol patch.
Well, I figured out how to do aprogram to carve that, fill it
in with epoxy and then put theFBI stuff and put the trooper uh
whiskey glasses and set in it,sent that off.
That was a big hit.
So it's like if somebody says,oh, you know, I'd love to do the

(01:24:29):
, can you do this?
Can you personalize it withname titles, badge numbers, you
name it.
I can do it Like if you're acop out there or an agent.
It's like I want to get thisguy something he's leaving.
Reach out, we will make themagic.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
Gone are the days of the acrylic crappy plaque that
says all that.
You know, when you see hisstuff, it's, it's.
I mean well, he, me and him arestill collaborating on my
purple heart, uh thing, justbecause I haven't figured this
stuff out.
But I mean I'm like, hey, eric,what can we do this?
He's like name it.
You, I mean freaking name, andyou know a guy like him, his
attention to detail.
I mean, if it needs to be a 13and a quarter degree cut on

(01:25:13):
something, it's at 13 and aquarter degree cut.
It's not 13.2, not 13.
If it's 13.3, throws it away,burns it and he makes another
one.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
You know, what's funny is my ex-wife I almost
said wife, but my ex-wife was asupervisor at the National
Academy, so they had, and shewas showing me some of the stuff
they had and I'm pretty surethat know.
I probably saw I cut a bit onsome of your stuff because they
do.
You know what I do give kudosto all the, all the people that

(01:25:44):
support the na with their um,with, with stuff like what
you're doing.
I mean, there's so much coolstuff there it's really neat.
But, brent, you know what doyou got going on in the future.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
I'm man, I'm, I'm trying to stay, uh, stay easy,
right.
So, uh, I took on this coachinggig uh, a little more than I
had anticipated it being, andit's been pretty good.
So, uh, I'm doing that and thenI still travel around, right,
uh, I do leadership talks andmotivational talks and then, uh,
uh, you know, wellness checksand, uh, I'm still working out

(01:26:15):
the runestone ranch out there inCalifornia and helping those
guys out, uh, building out theirranch for, uh, you know, first
responders and military guysthat are, you know, struggling
with, uh, pts.
So, uh, I'm I'm really justtelling my story still and you
know, helping those that are,you know, in a similar mindset.
So, all employee wellness and,you know, trying to get away

(01:26:38):
from you know, everybody wantsto, you know, get in the I feel
sorry for me stage and I thinkwe've gone a little too far in
that realm.
I think, you know, people stilljust need to have some toughness
going on.
It sucks, you can get in areally bad spot and I, you know,
I think people need to realizelike it's okay to share your
feelings and, and you know, bepissed off at your situation,
but let's not dwell on it andkeep, you know, keep it going,

(01:27:00):
you gotta, you can do that, butit won't help.
Uh, so, really, just that's,that's what I'm at.
I'm working on book number twofor those of you that read my
first book just to kind ofculminate on how the hell do you
get out of the pit fully onceyou're in it, and uh, so still
talking with some, uh, somepeople to do a docu-series on on
my experiences and I think, uh,you know, if that comes out,

(01:27:23):
you know, I think it'd be prettygood thing that people will
find a entertaining.
All right, if you listen to erictalk and his, you know stories
and my stories, uh, you know Ihave some entertainment value,
but I'm always a big fan of likeyou need to have a freaking
lesson behind something.
I hate, I hate, hate, hate.
People just want to tell warstories, like let's find some
reason behind it, because we canall tell war stories until our

(01:27:45):
computers die, uh, and that's it.
We're just going to want to oneup each other with our war
stories.
So I think they're.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
You hit the nail on the head right there.
It's like war stories are great, but that is like that's why
I'm taking the direction of theprotectors into a different area
.
Listen, I love hearing people'sstories, I love hearing their
backgrounds, I love hearing thisand that about what they've
done, but if I'm not learninganything and if the audience
isn't learning anything, really,you're just having a bitch

(01:28:16):
session with your friends, andtoday we learned a lot, and one
thing I did learn from Eric outof everything, was that the
right people for the right joband when it comes time to it,
the right people are going tostep up, and headquarters is
always going to be headquarters,but there's always going to be
someone out there who will dothe right thing.
Always, there's always someonethat's going to do the right

(01:28:37):
thing.
It's just being ensuring thatthey end up on your team.
But, gentlemen, I appreciateyou coming on and I look forward
to having you both back on soon.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
Thanks for the opportunity.
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:28:48):
Thank you very much.