538 | Frank Voce & Nick Ricciotti - The Protectors® Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Frank Nick.
What's going on, guys?
Welcome to the show.
A very important episode today.
I've been wanting to do thisone for quite a long time.
Quite a long time Now.
I've had my ups and downs withthis thing we're going to talk
about today.
A lot over the years, eversince I was 13.
And I'm 52 now, so math hasnever been my very strong topic.

(00:38):
So we're going to say, likepretty much most of my life,
most of my life, I've had somesort of liquid pour down my
throat and affect in the way Ilive.
And, believe me, no gooddecision has ever come from me
drinking Not one.
I've never once had a gooddecision.
And I can say that I wrote myfirst book Drunk as a Skunk,

(01:04):
drinking my cracking rum, mywriting rum, and I thought that
thing came out great and thenwhen I actually read it
afterwards, thank goodness Irevamped it.
So I've been wanting to talkabout this.
I've touched on my drinkingover the years, I've talked
about it on the podcast, but Inever really said, hey, you know
what?
I want to talk to other peoplewho have had the same problems

(01:27):
and I wanted to face thatproblem with you guys.
So, guys, welcome to the showand again, thank you for coming
on to share this.
I know you have both sharedabout your struggles and about
it's the constant struggle.
I know you've both shared aboutit.
It's part of your identity,unfortunately, it's part of your
identity.
Unfortunately, it's part ofyour identity and it almost

(01:48):
destroyed both of you.
I know that for a fact.
It almost destroyed both of youas it almost destroyed me.
So, guys, before we get intothis, I want this is something
new.
With the protectors, Itypically just jump right into
conversation, but for theaudience, I want, like just your
30,000foot overview of who youare, just who you are.
I know some guests like to getinto the macro, the micro level,

(02:10):
but I just want to know who youguys are.
I know who you are, but them.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Frank, I'll go ahead and go first, if that's what
we'll do.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
So the first thing I do is I'll give a title that I
cherish very much so, and thatis I'm a father.
No matter what I do, I willalways be a father.
First, I have two beautifulboys, a four-year-old and a
one-year-old, and neither ofthem, knock on wood, have ever
seen daddy take a drink, andthat is something that I pride

(02:36):
myself on very much.
To go without some otherdifferent titles, I am also the
vice president of reps forresponders, and I'm a therapist.
I'm an LAC in New Jersey, I'mlicensed in New Jersey for
mental health, and I'm going formy drug and alcohol license as
well, so I'm currentlycollecting hours towards both of
those licenses, to be fullylicensed, with the goal to open

(02:59):
up a private practice thatspecializes and is geared
towards first responders andveterans, because myself, prior
to my mental health career, Iused to be a cop and, like you
said, alcohol almost destroyedme, because it is the reason why
I lost my job as a cop in 2020.
I had a drinking problem, I wasdrugging and it all came

(03:20):
crashing down on me, and I wentthrough every cop's worst
nightmare, where I gotinvestigated by the prosecutor's
office, which is deep-glovedinto the DA in New York and
other states.
I lose my job, I get arrestedand I eventually have to pivot
what I'm going to do with mylife.
And that's where I find repsfor responders.
I start getting sober, I builda support network, I start
sharing my strength, experienceand hope, and then one day I say

(03:43):
why don't I go and make aliving with this?
Why don't I go and make acareer?
And that started my mentalhealth journey, where I went to
grad school at Rutgers,graduated in two years.
Last year I graduated in Mayand here we are, a little more
than a year later, working inthe substance abuse and mental
health field, changing lives.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Love it brother Love it.
Thank.
Thank you, nick.
Thanks for for sharing.
Um, yeah, my name is frank vose.
I am also a father.
I'm a husband, I'm a son, I'm afriend to many men.
I want to put that out therefirst as well.
I have an 18 month at hold now,caden.
I've been in recovery since2019.
I'm also a recovery coach.

(04:24):
I am the founder and presidentof Retro Responders 501c3
nonprofit and I am also a lawenforcement officer in a very
big city, new York, the NYPD.
I just hit 10 years stillactive.
Just made this straightforward.
The NYPD did not send me here.
I'm not here to represent anypart of the NYPD.
I'm here to represent myself,frank, as the titles I just gave

(04:47):
, besides the NYPD.
And I'm a hero, journeyenthusiast.
Love mythology, love Star Wars,love geeking out on all that,
love dealing with Carl Jung andthe Shadow and all that work.
So yeah, jay, I appreciate youhaving both of us on man, really
do.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Now I wanted to have you guys both on because, for
one thing, you are a dad.
You know, being a father is oneof the biggest things that made
me take that decision and sayyou know what, I don't need it
anymore.
And I do want to preface to saylike, look, I'm never going to
admit my will admit certainthings in my life.
But one thing I cannot say 100%right now is that I'll never

(05:25):
pick up the bottle again.
I'll never have a drink again.
I don't know if and one of thereasons I say that is because
there may be a time in my lifewhere I'm going to have another
drink Did I feel like I was analcoholic?
I'm not ready to admit thateither.
I mean, I look at the quantityI drank, but when I said I was

(05:49):
going to stop drinking one day,I just said I'm not going to
stop drinking.
I said I'm done.
But you know, I guess part ofit is.
And I talked to one of myreally, really good friends and
she's listening right now, Iguarantee it about drinking and
one of the things is admittingthat you are an alcoholic and
you don't got that wordalcoholic and maybe by the end

(06:09):
of the show.
I'll admit it, maybe not, Idon't know.
But the thing is I'm not readyto get to that point in my life
where I'm going to go publiclydeclared I'm never going to have
a drink again Me.
I know I'm not going to haveanother drink again, but I'm not
ready to admit it.
Maybe that's the problem andmaybe I'm just kind of because
I'm talking to you guys I feellike a little peer pressure,
because that's the first thing Iwant to talk about right now is
peer pressure.

(06:30):
Now, when I decided to stopdrinking, I ran into and I was
supposed to go on a really nicevacation with a buddy.
I was going to go to Jamaica,we're going to hang out.
He was what I thought was sober, but decided that he was going
to have some, some drinks in hislife.
And I personally am at adifferent phase of my life where
when I go on vacation, I wantto hike, I want to scuba dive, I

(06:51):
want to do exciting things, Idon't want anything to do with
booze.
So I went, we I was at aconcert and I ran into a mutual
friend who was supposed to go onthis group vacation and he says
, bro, uh, you ready to gethammered.
You ready, ready to get fuckedup.
And I was like, no, I'm like.
I was under the impression Iwas going to go down there and I
was going to, like you know,explore the island and figure

(07:13):
out what the hell's going on.
And I decided to pull the plug.
And I was at the point where Isaid you know what I'm done, I'm
done, I don't need that peerpressure, I don't need to go
somewhere where it's just notgood to me to be around that
stuff, because peer pressurehappens every day.
And in the protector community,especially the protector

(07:36):
community, that peer pressure isthere.
Bro man, I had a rough day.
Let's go get a drink.
Let's have a drink.
Oh man, and then the other, theother aspect of it, it becomes
your whole life.
I look at my snapchat historyand everything I have on.
There is a damn picture of mewith a crack and rum in my hand
or an ipa, and it can't just bean ipa, it's gotta be double or

(07:57):
triple ipa.
That sucker has to have themost booze in it because I gotta
get hammer hammered.
The peer pressure is true, andthat's one thing I want to talk
to you two about is like you'reyounger.
You're young fathers too.
I mean, my kids are teens.
They saw me when I was boozingit up.
They saw me with those, thatmultiple quantities of 1.75

(08:19):
liters a week.
You know, they saw me at myworst and has a lot of other
people have saw me at my worst.
But you guys, you nipped in abud, but you're still under the
pressure, you're still under thegun.
You're still surrounded bypeople who that is their
lifestyle, that is who they areis booze.
So let's get into that.

(08:39):
Next is the peer pressure andand and.
If someone the really reason Iwanted to have this discussion
tonight is for saying to for one, to tell people that there are
options out there.
You have AA, you have coldTurkey and you have just.
Maybe you just slow down.
Maybe you just say, hey, youknow what?
I don't need the drink as much,I don't need to make my
lifestyle.
So, you guys, peer pressure,let's talk about that first.

(09:02):
And whoever wants to go firsttalk as much as you want.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
The soapbox is yours, nick, let's go.
Thank you, jay.
Let's go back and forth like westarted you go first and then
I'll go after you.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, no problem.
So peer pressure, as you'retalking about, is a main reason
why people drink, why theyrelapse, why they kind of stay
in the same exact cycle.
And I'll use myself for anexample.
When I was working on the job,I had a group of friends who we
all there were about six, seven,eight of us who all drank
together, and that was like mycrew of drinking buddies and we

(09:35):
would go out, we would bingedrink, we would, you know, do
benders for two, three nights ina row.
And then for me, like somethingwould happen, like I would do
something stupid.
My girlfriend would get mad atme because I would come home
late one night.
Right, how did I get home?
Like sometimes my car's notthere and I would be like, all
right, like I need to geteverything in line here, I need
to make sure my house is inorder, I need to make sure

(09:56):
things don't really get out ofcontrol.
But I describe, like myrelationship with alcohol and
those friends as toxic.
Because what with alcohol?
And those friends?
As toxic?
Because what would happen whenthings were good and my friends
would call me or they would textme and they would say, hey,
what are you doing?
Like, let's go out.
I would go back out because Ididn't want to say no, because I

(10:16):
didn't want to fall out of thatclique that I was in, because
that's how we all essentiallybonded, even though we were all
masking our own insecurities andour own pain with alcohol.
None of us just knew it at thetime that that's what we were
doing.
But that's exactly what it was.
It was peer pressure, it wasthe fear of not fitting in and
falling out of place and nothaving, you know, friends that

(10:37):
were on the job who were doingsimilar stuff that I was doing.
And that's really what, youknow, what drove the addiction
for me.
And it wasn't until I startedgetting sober and I kind of just
gradually, we all kind of wentour separate ways.
But I also made a consciouseffort not to surround myself
again with people that wereengaging in that type of

(10:59):
behavior, because me personally,I know what happens when I'm
around those types of people.
And I'll give you a really goodexample, and this is the
self-awareness that I started togain the same time that I
applied for grad school.
I got into the iron workersunit in New Jersey.
I essentially hit the jackpotagain, where I was going to make
a lot of money.
I was going to get my pensionback, I was going to get the

(11:21):
health benefits back that youknow first responders get.
I was getting it all back, justin a different job.
And I was actually at the unionhall ready to sign up and ready
to start my career as an ironworker.
And as I'm sitting there withall my books in my hand with my
first union dues check, I havethis realization that I'm
essentially going back to thesame environment that got me in

(11:43):
the exact mess that I was in ayear and a half prior, because I
know because I had friends whoare iron workers that booze is
part of that community as well.
Guys work, they work hard.
What do they do after work?
They go get a drink.
And I just said to myself Idon't want to get into the same
situation again and I cut it.
I set boundaries with peoplewho engage in that type of

(12:05):
behavior and I said never again,because I saw the pain that I
put people I care about throughand I also remembered the pain
that I went through as well,which is something that's never
going to leave me, which is goodbecause it's always going to be
a reminder of what happens whenI'm around those type of people
, those type of people.

(12:27):
So peer pressure destroyed me inmy alcoholism.
But now I have a lot ofself-awareness where I do a
really good job of surroundingmyself with people who don't put
me in those situations.
And I'll give an example ofthat.
All of my friends still drink,for the most part Like my
childhood friends.
I have a core group of reallygood best friends, like eight of
us, and they all still drinkand that's great, that's fine.
We were at a party this pastSaturday where everybody was

(12:48):
drinking.
Do you know how many peopleoffered me a drink?
Zero, not one, because they allknow Nick doesn't drink.
So what's the point of askingme to have a drink If I don't
drink?
I have good friends.
I have good people that Isurround myself with that have
eliminated that peer pressurefor me and I'm at the point now

(13:08):
where I'm okay with being aroundalcohol because I know right
now it's not something that Iwant to do and I take it day by
day and every day I wake up andI say I don't want alcohol,
because I reflect and I lookback and alcohol brought zero
good into my life.
It just brought chaos.
It was destructive and I am ona much different path nowadays.

(13:28):
But peer pressure can be amotherfucker man.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
You know, before we go on to Frank, I do want to say
that and you guys probablycould both contest to this or
testify to it is that whenpeople understand that you're on
a different phase of your life,you're a different version of
yourself, that you've changed,that you don't have to have that
drink in your hand, that youdon't drink, you're going to
notice, if you're surrounded bya core group of people, or a

(13:55):
solid group of people whosupport you, who are your true
core, that they won't askanymore.
Now, that same guy I ran into atthe concert.
He works at the concert and heworks at a booze booth.
The first time I went therehe's like, hey, you want a drink
?
I'm like no, I said I'm done.
I saw him over the week.

(14:15):
Not one mention of it, of booze, because he knows, he knows I
don't drink anymore and he knowsI mean, he knows not to ask.
And when you get around, whenyou find out who's truly going
to support you in the dark days,99% of those people are going
to support you and not try topush you back into that darkness

(14:36):
, into that destruction, intothat chaos.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
I have friends who care more about my sobriety
sometimes than I do.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, like they're like no,like you're not, no way, never
again for you.
And I'm like, yeah, you'reright, man, and I appreciate the
fact that you were on boardwith this, frank, you're up
buddy, yeah, I'm just sucking itall in, sucking it all in.

(15:00):
man right, patience, you're alittle different to me because
you're still on the job, soyou're still surrounded by cops
who are engaging with drinkingafter the job and whatnot.
My environment's now a littlebit different than yours.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yes, no, that's definitely true.
It is definitely a fact, jay.
I want to hit something beforeyou said right, that powerless.
That step one and then I'mgoing to get into the peer
pressure.
But when we're talking, when Iright, everything I speak about
tonight is from my perspective,my experience, no one else.
I can only talk about what hashelped me and what has not

(15:34):
helped me.
It's not about how much youdrink or what you drink.
It's what happens to you inside.
It's what happens to you whenyou drink.
Okay, I can never call anyonealcoholic, Jay, even if you told
me I can never call you analcoholic because I'm not you,

(15:54):
right.
But if it's affecting your job,your relationship, your inner
peace, those are red flags.
If today's Tuesday and I'mthinking about what I'm going to
drink Thursday and where I'mgoing to go, especially if I'm
getting a dopamine hit as I'mthinking about it, huge red flag
, guys, for whoever's listening,major red flag.

(16:16):
There are.
They say about 10% of peoplehave.
I think it's called alcohol,alcohol use disorder.
Right, you can't, let's be,let's be honest.
We can't handle the drink.
I'm a drunk.
Alcohol is way more powerfulthan me, okay, uh, do I wish I
could drink, of course, but Ican't because I know one is too

(16:37):
many, a thousand is never enough.
If I have one that's too many,we're gonna go to a thousand and
down drinks never enough.
So these are little slogansthat I keep in my back pocket.
Now, if we can peel the layerof peer pressure to me, really,
what is it?
It's just trying to fit in.
It's trying to fit in.
It's that little Frank fromelementary school, from middle

(17:00):
school, from high school.
The part of me that's trying tofit in, the part of me that saw
my own father drink a Budweisercan every single night, looking
at my dad as my hero, right.
So we have to be really easy onourselves, guys.
I say guys, I'm generalizingthe listeners, because once we
start beating ourself up aboutour drinking, instead of asking,

(17:22):
getting curious, why are wedrinking?
And saying, hey, listen, whatare you protecting me from?
And I love that.
The protector podcast and youknow Nick knows already this is
internal family system work bookhave that I'm using.
We have these protectors on Jay, you know, and and and we have
the protector, we have themanager inside of us.
We have the critic, right.
And the critic can say oh, jay,you're not an alcoholic, you

(18:01):
know, not to call, you know, andthen we have the protector
saying with the listeners andwhat you jack, but yeah, man, I
mean from.
I'll never forget.
I was training for collegefootball 2012 and I was at my
coach's house and we did a wholeplan 150 days.
I was walking back on havingplayed football in two years.

(18:23):
I was like you need college andI missed.
I miss, it, was missingsomething and I was missing
being something bigger thanmyself, the camaraderie being
with a bunch of guys, and it'sfunny how it turns also into
NYPD.
And we make a whole plan 150days.
I'm talking about what we'regoing to eat, from when we're

(18:43):
going to go to bed, from whatworkout each day, monday through
Friday, like bigger, faster,stronger.
I remember the rep scheme threeby three, five by five, five,
four, three, two, one, 10, eight, six.
I can tell you the big sixlifts, I could tell you the
extent.
It's ingrained into my brain.
And then during it he just saysno alcohol.
And I go, really, and he goes,yeah, no alcohol, especially for
you, and I'm just like, allright, he saw the behavior, he

(19:06):
saw the addiction in performing,so that went on.
I didn't think about a drink,because my focus, my goal, that
I was able to bring, that was my, that was so important to me
that nothing was going to get inmy way to make that football
team and I walked on and I madethe team.
Once I made the team, that wasit.
It was like Stone Cold SteveAustin on the top rope, beers

(19:27):
everywhere.
So I saw the progression pickup big time and I was a blackout
drinker.
I would have one that turnedinto 10 within an hour, which
turned into you and me, jay.
We meet for the first time.
We're best friends.
So the pressure of fitting in,the pressure of hanging out with

(19:50):
the good guys and the coolgirls and all that, and the
pressure, honestly, of notfacing Frank, of not feeling
those emotions, of not wantingto feel a little anxious if I,
you know, have to go talk to afemale, or if I'm going to do
say something to another man.
Oh, I got the, the soup, I gotthe.

(20:12):
Um, not superman.
Uh, give me a second space jam,the special water you know,
when they were drinking duringspace jam and it was like for a
while it was that fake juicethat would get me through these
situations, as I thought, likethe story I tell myself.
Then I got into the job and itwas four to four, right, you

(20:35):
would go work four to 12.
And then after that you wouldgo midnight to 4am.
And what do we do when we'reall hanging out?
All three of us know we talkedabout the job, we made fun of
each other, so our brain is noteven registering that we're
really off duty and I haveovertime, that I'm working for
free, but I'm spending money.
I'm barely making anything as anew cop now, I think I was in a

(20:57):
home but I'm spending $100,$200 a weekend.
And then it would be a cycle.
It could be a Friday, saturday,it could be a Tuesday,
wednesday, when my days were off, and then I, that guilt and
shame, would come in.
And that guilt and shame isbased off of what, though?
The main emotion of fear, offear, of fear of letting.
I had this weird intuition inmy body.

(21:18):
It's like my myself knew, likemy soul knew, every time I drank
, even if I didn't say or doanything crazy, I just always
woke up with that guilt andshame oh, I shouldn't be doing
this, I should not be doing this.
That's another red flag for forguys and girls, and I would
give myself two, three weeks off.
Oh, I feel better now.
Same cycle, the cycle ofinsanity.

(21:40):
Or I got a power lifting me,I'm not going to drink for a
month, and then powerlifting mehappens, and then back and forth
.
So it was this internal battle.
And so much time, so much selfenergy, so many relationships
damaged, um, because of thisintoxication of, of, of this
poison, um.
So yeah, peer pressure is, istotally big, um big.

(22:03):
Until you realize that hurtpeople are going to hurt people,
heal people are going to helppeople.
So all those guys and I'm stillfriends with them today, but I
don't, you know they're goingthrough it just like you.
And once you're able to get onthis other side, another slogan
right, the promises do come true.

(22:23):
The promises of at least alittle more peace in your life,
at least meeting cool peoplelike you, jason, and able to do
this, at least being present foryour son, or having
conversation with your wifewithout yelling, and or just
like actually being present.
And then I'll leave it withthis.
It's like you could be sober,but do you have a sober mind?
Like I'm really diving moreinto my recovery.

(22:45):
All I could do is stay sobertoday, man, after this podcast,
and I appreciate you, thank youfor letting me stay sober
tonight, helped me stay sobertonight.
I think Nick will say the same,but I still got three hours
left in the day.
So ultimately it's a choice,man, hour by hour, minute by
minute, second by second.
But it's our choice and no onecan ever take that away from us,

(23:07):
ever that this is our choice.
And then, if we can get that inour head and play that theme
song, instead of the guilt ofshame I need to fit in, it's
going to empower us more andmore each day.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
You know, it comes down to the emotions.
At the end of the day it's theemotions, that that feeling you
have either when you're doing itor when you're done.
And that was what really hit mewas, you know, when I was
younger I could just drink.
I'd be fine.
We can go play football gamesthe next day.
I mean, believe me, in highschool you know we'd drink every
night before the game during aweek.

(23:41):
I mean, it's crazy what youcould do to your body.
But as I kept getting older andolder, I kept doing that.
I kept waking up the day aftertwo days after I drank, even if
I have two or three drinks.
Now I wake up the next day andI'm like I got this fog in my
head, this depression, thissadness, and even if I didn't

(24:01):
say or do anything, I didn'tfeel like myself anymore.
I felt like this guilt becauseI'm like here I am investing in
my body, investing in my mind,investing in my education,
investing in the most importantthing, which is my kids, and
then knowing that if I have twodrinks, I'm letting them down.
Nowadays, if I have even onedrink, I feel like I'm letting

(24:23):
my kids down.
Even to nowadays, if I haveeven one drink.
I feel like I'm letting my kidsdown in the back of my head
because they've seen me at mydarkest.
They've seen me stuck in bedfor two or three days, hung over
.
They didn't realize it at thetime because they were super
young, but now that they'reteens, in high school, if I got
hammered out, they would knowthat dad is like there's some
issue.
And you know they they.
They live with their mom, butit's like they would know if dad

(24:46):
wasn't showing up and takinghim doing this and wasn't acting
himself, they would know thatthings are rough and that's the
thing is understanding that itdoesn't have to be your life.
I think that's the biggestreason I wanted to have this
discussion with you guys is like, yeah, we all all three of us
have, you know it's, it's been adetriment to our life and we

(25:07):
couldn't be who we are today ifwe didn't, if we kept on that
path.
But the thing is you don't haveto make it your lifestyle.
You know, I do want to tell astory.
I went out, I'm I have this bigthing now where I have to go to
concerts all the time.
I love music, to concerts, butI went with my buddy and we were
talking and he was talkingabout his friend and his friend
is this big like bourbon guy andhe's like this guy will go out

(25:32):
and he's retired military nowhe's got a contractor gig so
he's got a ton of money right.
But he'll go out and buy like$1,000 worth of bourbon like
it's nothing.
He'll drink some of it and belike, oh, it just doesn't taste
good.
And then he'll give thesebottles away.
And I'm like he's like, yeah,you go down in this basement and
he's got bottles and bottlesand bottles of bourbon.
And I'm thinking to myself, I'mlike you're wasting so much of

(25:55):
your life and so much of yourmoney.
Just waste it.
Waste it, I mean on booze thatis just because it has a fancy
bottle, a fancy name.
After that second or third swigit's all going to taste the
same, you know come on buddy,you know I can say, hey, you
know what You're into wine.
You swish it and you spit it outand then you have some more

(26:15):
later on.
Okay, you know, need a littlecheese.
But if you're going to bedrinking bourbon, you have two
or three drinks and then boom,you're like, ah, it just doesn't
taste good and you go on to thenext bottle.
You got a problem, brother.
I'm sorry you do, but so manyof us and it's social media too,
it is.
It's so cool to have that boozeto be the burnout.

(26:36):
You know I'm just taking theedge off because my life is like
this.
I'm so cool and burned out.
Then you know I'm guilty of itmyself.
Like I said with my socialmedia posts, if you switch, if
you go to the way back machine,like, not even like a year or
two years, like three years agoit was bad, it was just always
about the booze and how you lookwith that bottle in your hand

(26:56):
and we're going to go out afterthis and do that.
So that's.
The other thing is the imagethat comes along with it.
You don't need the image, youdon't need it and you don't need
that drink in order to be, likeyou know, badass well, I think
this comes down to like a couplethings.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
It's number one you kind of touched on it like Like
society has normalized, allright, I'm going to go out.
Especially like when you go outwith like a big group of
friends and if you're a parentand your kids are home and
you're out with all your friendsand parents night out, right,
like no kids, noresponsibilities for the night
until you get home.
It's almost like societynormalized, like all right,

(27:34):
we're going to get after it.
It's almost like societynormalized, like all right,
we're going to get after it.
And in the morning I just knowthat I'm not going to be 100%,
but like my question to peoplewould be like why don't you want
to be 100% for your kids thatday?
You know, especially when youhave young kids, where they're
so impressionable, where theypick up on everything that
you're doing, where they'regoing to realize mommy and daddy

(27:56):
are different today and they'regoing to wonder why.
And it's like these momentswith your kids when they're
young and I use I'm using youngkids because I have young kids
is they're not going to lastforever.
Like I'm going to blink one dayand my oldest is going to be a
teenager and he's not going towant to play with daddy, he's
not going to want to go to thepark, he's not going to want to

(28:17):
go to the pool, he's not goingto want to go play tag with me,
he's not going to want to do anyof these things with me.
So for me, it's just like Iwant to soak in as much time as
I possibly can with my kids now,because these moments aren't
going to last forever.
They're going to be gone beforeI even realize it and I don't
want to ever look back and say Imissed out on a full day

(28:38):
because I traded being presentwith my kids for a temporary
high.
That makes me feel like crapthe next morning.
You know, and it also comes backto you know Frank touched on it
a little bit of like you were abinge drinker.
I was a binge drinker, you know.
I myself.
I never drank every single day.

(28:59):
I never became dependent onalcohol.
I never withdrew on alcohol.
I never had to have a drink tofunction.
This was one of the biggestthings that caused me to not
realize I had a problem becausein my mind I was looking at
other people and when you're acop, you see people who are
alcoholics and you see what theydo.

(29:21):
So I'm playing in my head I'mnot that guy.
I don't have to drink every day, so I don't have a problem,
right.
But in reality, when I lookback and I look at my
relationships and I look at myperformance for my career and
all these things, I'm like, well, no, I definitely had a problem
because I wasn't performing aswell as I could have.
And what's the reason why?
It was because I wasprioritizing going out with my

(29:42):
friends.
I was prioritizing drinking.
I was giving up those next fewdays for a hangover, for those
temporary highs which I don'tget those days back.
You don't get time back, and Ithink that's really important
question for people to askthemselves.
It's like, yeah, you might notdrink every day, but what
happens when you drink?
How are your relationships?
How's your work?

(30:02):
You know all these differentdomains in your life.
Could they be better withoutalcohol?
Because, like we've said,there's really not much good
that comes from alcohol.
When I go out and I talk togroups of cops, I always ask one
question who has ever woken upfrom a full-blown night of

(30:23):
drinking and said, holy crap,that was the best thing ever, I
feel amazing.
Let's go do that exact samething right now.
More times than not, no handsgo up and it's like well, now
ask yourself, why are you doingthat thing?
And most people it's just likebecause it's society, because

(30:43):
it's normal, this is what we do,because most people don't do
the inner work that all three ofus have likely done, right,
like I know, I've done a ton ofinternal work.
Frank mentioned IFS internalfamily systems which is called
parts work, and he touched on ita little bit.
I've done parts work.
I've recognized the parts thatprotect me.
I've recognized fear.

(31:03):
I've recognized the risk takerin me.
I've recognized all thesethings and I face them, which
has helped me become a betterperson, because now I know I'm
able to face these emotions,these fears, without alcohol,
because I've equipped myselfwith tools.
I have coping skills, I havefriends, I have people
surrounded by me who support me,who can help me get through

(31:24):
whatever it is I'm going through, without having to turn to
Jameson and Blue Moon, becausethose two are my go-to.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
You know, nick, we can sit here all three of us and
preach all day long of thebenefits of not doing it.
I think sometimes people needto understand why we don't do it
.
You know, that's one thing Iwant to get into.
Both of you guys is like thatdarkest point, and feel free to
like if you want to share.
You don't want to share, youwant to talk about someone else.
You know, my darkest points tome is like I see them in my mind

(31:55):
.
I can't really convey them asgood as I know what they are.
That's a picture of me onlinewhere it's on 300 pounds Sad,
bloated, sad and bloated that'sthe two things that come to my
mind.
Sad and bloated, and I couldprobably say that.
You know, I told this storybefore about how I had a health

(32:17):
scare and I passed out in frontof my daughter and I just I fell
flat on my face because myblood pressure spiked and
everything I was drinking at thetime Not that day, but there
was a lot of my health and a lotof my obesity was because I was
drinking so much, and that wasthe catalyst for me.
It was like I have to stop, Ihave to, I have to.

(32:37):
You've lost your career, frank,I don't.
I you know.
I guarantee if you didn't takethat step, you're, you would not
be a cop today.
There's no way.
But I want to.
I want to talk to both of youguys.
I want to.
I want you to share you knowabout that.
And then, frank, I doeventually.
I want to get into into how youtook that step to get out of

(32:58):
this Really, I mean, the lowestpoint to where you guys are
right now is like it's like adifferent world, because you
look at both of you.
Now you're posting on socialmedia all the time.
You're healthy, you're fit, 5am on a Saturday.
I guarantee you guys have aclear head.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
So let's get into that.
I mean the why.
I'll talk physical first andyou kind of just mentioned you
talk about health and that foryou, other than the weight gain,
you know you had some healthscares.
A lot of people may not havehealth errors I personally
didn't but it's crazy.
You know, if you're listeningto this and you're in the gym
and you're eating right, Ichallenge you to stop drinking

(33:40):
for 30 days and look what'sgoing to happen to your body.
Because when I was drinking Istill I follow like an 80-20
rule when it comes to nutrition.
Like 80% of the time I'm on I'meating healthy, the other 20%
I'll eat a McDonald's, I'llpretty much eat whatever the
hell I want.
Right, I was still trainingfour or five.
I was actually training moreback then.
I was actually trained aboutfive, six days a week when I was

(34:02):
drinking and I thought I lookedgood.
And when I look back on picturesnow from when I was drinking,
training, doing my 80, 20 rule,I'm bloated, my skin looks awful
, like you can see it in my eyesthat like there's something
wrong behind what's going on.
And when I stopped drinking Idid 75 hard, which is a program

(34:25):
by Andy Frisella, who is theowner of first form supplement
company, and there's a bunch ofthings that you have to do, but
one of the things that you haveto do is not drink for 75 days
and I could never fully completethe program.
But the one thing that I haveto do is not drink for 75 days
and I could never fully completethe program.
But the one thing that Icontinued to do and this is how
I got sober was not drink and Itook a 60 day picture and the

(34:46):
difference from when I wasdrinking to those 60 days when I
wasn't but I was pretty muchdoing everything exactly the
same was eyeopening and I wasjust like I can't believe that.
I thought that I looked goodhere and I'm bloated, like I
said, my skin looks awful andI'm just like.
This is what alcohol does toyou and you don't realize that

(35:10):
until you actually cut thatthing out.
So that I mean the physicalthing.
For me and I know a ton of youknow fitness is on a high right
now.
You know everybody's intofitness, everybody's into their
health, which is great, but ifyou're still drinking and you're
doing all these other things,you're going to the gym, you're
eating healthy I'm telling youyou're not capitalizing on all

(35:32):
the potential and all the gainsI'll use that word gains that
you could possibly be getting ifyou were still drinking.
And I mean I'm telling you youdon't need to be drinking every
day, you know, just having thosefew drinks you're cutting into
your progress.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, no, I got the data right here, nick.
Let's talk about the physical,you know, let's get rid of the
emotion.
Let's get rid of, let's take apause on the emotional side and
this is what we're really neverlearned in high school or even
in the academy the, the, what itdoes to our physical body,
right, and not our emotionalbody, but we can't disconnect it
.
Physical is emotional,emotional, physical the body

(36:08):
keeps the score.
There's so much data out there.
Believe what you want, but thisis, you know, my perspective
and I wanted to hit something,though.
You're talking about theblackout drinker.
So towards the end of mydrinking career, I got so
dependent on it, I was drinkingalmost every day and that was
really scary, and I just want toput that out there, as I, that
could be any of us that it is sopowerful.
There's an actual, a, literallyquote, a quote, you know, from

(36:32):
Alcoholics Anonymous, right,that no human power, you know,
can heal.
This basically is that you needa spiritual awakening and some
type of also spiritual programin your life, if it's a God, if
it's a higher power, if it'sfaith, right, and to me you hear
the cold turkey and I know somepeople that have done a cold

(36:53):
turkey and it's.
We have one guy I'll shout himout from heroin, nick Dan, from
the firefighter who waspresented with us, but I know
for a fact that he's still talksabout it right To other
firefighters like that.
This is how he did it.
He has a supportive wife, sohe's still has some type of
support.
It's not like you're going coldturkey and you never talk about

(37:13):
it again, because here's thething it's always part of us,
it's inside of us.
It's about acknowledging andgiving yourself permission to
say okay, I know you're there,you're in the basement, you're
chained up right now and I'mgoing to leave you chained there
today and I thank you for,instead of being so angry with
it, thank you for protecting mefrom trying to not feel X, y and

(37:37):
Z.
I understand what your job was,but I'm Frank, I'm 33 years old
.
Today I got this.
I can lead just for today andyou're going to stay there.
Conversation to start.
I still have this conversationall the time because, to be
honest, scott, it's really, it'sreally effing hard.
It's hard.
I don't think about a drinkevery single day, but that's the
thing is that if we are in avulnerable emotional state, we

(38:01):
always know what was there forus to make us feel better,
instantly, on the spot, and youcan call it dry drunk.
And in my recovery I've seensome I'm coming forward with it
some symptoms of dry drunkness,which is I'm admitting that to
my life, nick, I don't think Iadmitted it to you but what is
that?
It's myself numbing out oncertain situations to protect

(38:23):
myself, to not feel.
But I'm getting more aware ofthat.
Okay, it's happening right nowinside of me.
What can I do?
Right now?
I can pause, I can take abreath, I can do some
diaphragmatic breathing.
I can try to talk to the part,my breathing.
I could try to talk to the part.
If not, I got to move my body.
I have to move my body.
Energy flows the way you moveit.
So once you start moving yourbody, I guarantee you, even if

(38:45):
it's five minutes, your thoughtprocess is definitely going to
change differently.
So I want to put that out there.
So let's talk about alcohol.
It enters our body as an actualtoxin.
This is off the dome right here.
This is no script.
It's a poison, okay, ethanolright?
Um, it's a poison, okay,ethanol, right.
It's a poison.
It creates something in ourbody called acetaldehyde, which
is poisonous.
Humans are so resilient thatour bodies were able to create
acetate, which is able to fightthat poison.

(39:07):
If we couldn't create acetate,we'd be dead.
We literally poison ourselves.
So obviously I would hope thatwe're drinking it.
It's going down our throat andwe have a very important nerve
right, the vagus nerve thatconnects from our stomach all
the way up to our brain mind,whatever you want to call it to
our brain Cause I think the mindis.

(39:27):
I think we have multiple minds.
It's going to sound freaky.
I think we have the mind is.
If I ask you where the mind is,do we really know?
So you show no.
So If I ask you where the mindis, do we really know?
So you show no.
So 95% of our serotonin iscreated where, in our gut.
This is going to be verygut-based, heavy, because the
gut is also considered thesecond brain.

(39:52):
Okay, so the foods we eat canhelp create anxiety and
suppression or can help fightagainst it.
So as it enters into ourstomach, it literally kills all
the bacteria in our stomach.
It kills the good bacteria andthe bad bacteria, but something
crazy happens where the badbacteria literally leaves the
stomach and it goes to the brainwhich causes craving.
It's like wild, right.
It's like the devil knew, likeLucifer knew, like if I create

(40:13):
this, right like this is what'sgoing to happen.
So there's about not seven tonine calories in a beer, right,
in a shot, so I mean 70 to 90.
So this is where I'm going topull up very interesting, very
interesting numbers here for thefitness, nutrition side, for
everyone, just just forperspective is so we have a

(40:36):
PowerPoint here.
Basically, right for respondersalcohol and sleep right, because
we want, I wanted to createsomething.
We always hear how bad it isfor us.
Emotional.
It's also a depressant.
We're in a high stress,hypervigilant nervous system job
.
Right, once we start drinking.
I I call it like you're.
You're increasing thatdepression and that anxiety
tenfold.
It's like you're withze.

(40:56):
You're giving your emotionalstate steroids in a negative way
.
So alcohol seven calories pergram of alcohol, right.
So that's less than fat hasnine calories, right?
The average light beer has 105calories.
The average regular beer has150 calories.
The average daily limit fordrinks right for females is one

(41:18):
to two and for men two to three.
Let's put this perspective 14drinks a week, two per day, an
extra 1750 calories.
21 drinks in a week, three perday 2625 extra calories For the
week.
I was probably drinking when Iwas really part puppy 20 drinks
in a night.
I was probably drinking when Iwas really part puppy.
20 drinks in the night that'sreally, if you talk to a drinker

(41:39):
in a five-hour span, that'sreally nothing to brag about.
That's how sick it was.
So obviously the body wants toget rid of the alcohol.
It's a toxin, after all, so thebody works hard to eliminate it
.
If you're eating a meal anddrinking beer or wine, your body

(42:01):
isn't absorbing the nutrientsbecause it's too busy trying to
get rid of the toxins.
So your body holds metabolismof fat and carbohydrates in
order to prioritize theprocessing of alcohol.
Carbs and fat are now left inthe shadows and they become
stored.
Some of the alcohol is used forenergy, but most of it is empty
calories.
There is absolutely nonutritional facts.
No, it doesn't have anyvitamins.
Nothing to alcohol, right?
Think about that.
21 drinks in a week.
If you had 21 drinks a day,2,625 extra calories You're

(42:24):
adding.
If you're trying to gain weight, lose weight, right?
You're adding another day ofeating just from drinking in
five, six hours.
It has negative effects for maletestosterone disrupts sleep,
without a doubt.
The sleep is horrible.
Increasing for high bloodpressure, stroke, liver damage,

(42:50):
I mean it goes on and on.
Damages to cell what is cancer?
Dysregulation of the cell?
I mean it goes on.
And how many reports arecancer-related?
But alcohol is really not inthat right.
Talking about suicide, really,unfortunately the numbers are
high and low in force and wetaught this to the first

(43:10):
responders mission right, firstresponder and it's only
increasing.
You know, I was listening.
It's like, with all this, allthis, like ai and this financial
right, are we really going tobe have a?
I'm, the fearful I have for myson and the generation behind me
is really not a financialproblem but an emotional problem
.
Is all this technology andhandling your emotions?

(43:31):
Um, the cdc says 22 of suicidesare the blood alcohol content?
Uh, is higher than um the limit22.
So let's just say one in foursuicides are, and I know because
I used to work behind thescenes, a lot of police suicides
have alcohol involved.
Um, I know we went to theemotional state it's so hard not

(43:54):
to get, you know, passionateabout, but it really does a lot
of damage over time.
It's like that's to a thousandpaper cuts, right, and then you
got to think about how manylives you're going to get, how
many times are you going to getbehind the wheel.
It's 2025.
There's so many different waysto drive or something that's
going to happen.
Or you're going to wake up andsay, wow, where am I?

(44:15):
Where's my wallet?
I lost my credit card.
I lost this.
One of my fears is I'm on avacation or I'm walking through
New York City and I'm with myfamily and I'm boxed and
something happens and I can't bethere present because I'm so
intoxicated.
Or I'm home and I passed outbecause I'm intoxicated.
Someone broke in, somethinghappens to my son.
I can't I know myself.

(44:38):
It's going to be really, reallyhard to let go of that.
So these are.
You talk about the dark placesand I know I've.
I've really gotten into a lotof relationships and the
relationship with my father.
Now he got sober.
After me.
He went to the same rehab I didThank God he's been, you know
but he had alcoholic acidosis,which is basically your body,
your organ, shutting down fromalcohol.
He got a new kidney.
Thank God, he's been inrecovery since November of 2019,

(45:02):
september 2019.
We have a complete differentrelationship today from the last
five years than we did for 28years of my life.
From the physical point, themore we're not drinking, the
more we're sleeping.
To me it goes sleep, nutritionfitness, sleep, nutrition

(45:25):
fitness.
The magic happens when we sleep.
We're not taught sleep hygieneever.
We're not taught in the academy.
We're all over the place withour bodies.
We weren't created to do thisjob in law enforcement, we
weren't, but somehow to give uscredit and cops.
I believe we're one of the mostresilient creatures on this
planet because we always justfigure out a way.

(45:45):
We figure out a way to make ithappen, to keep people safe, to
do our job.
It doesn't mean that we're notgoing to pay the price to
admission.
This is the price to admission.
I signed up for this job.
People can complain about thejob all day and every day.
But there's also a choice wetalked about.
You can leave whenever you want.
So you have to ask yourself whycan't I leave?
Of course, the first thing isgoing to be financial.
But if you're drinking yourselfthroughout your whole career, I

(46:08):
firmly believe, jay, thatdrinking is a form of suicide
over time.
Totally Because you're chainedin emotionally.
You're causing all thesephysical health problems.
Uh, you're causing your.
You can't even absorb yourmeals.
Your it's in your body for 48to 72 hours so just when you're
done drinking, you think it'sstill going to slow down you,

(46:29):
how you think and how you feel.
So I mean, if that stuffdoesn't scare you enough, right,
just to start thinking, just tochange the thought process of
maybe a different behavior youmay have, you know, that red
flag, but yeah, there's so manynegative effects to it and once

(46:50):
you start understanding how thebody works a little bit, it's
phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Well, we'll get into the physiological thing again
and we'll get into how you canget help.
But you know, I talked aboutpeer pressure.
We talked about peer pressureand I think that was my biggest.
You know, in my mind I alwaysvisualize an alcoholic as
Nicolas Cage in Leaving LasVegas.
I mean you're drunk, you'redrunk, you can't live without it

(47:14):
.
You need it in the morning, youneed to.
You know you're drunk.
You can't live without it.
You need it in the morning, youneed to.
You know you're the um you'rethe can of yeah, you're the.
you're the keanu reeves guy instreet kings where you're just
swigging a vodka because youneed it, and to me it's like I
just you know, I had theepiphany.
I'm like I'm I'm giving intopeer pressure in this podcast,

(47:34):
before this podcast, because Iknew we were going to be
drinking my booze and I knewthat eventually I may go and
have a drink and with socialmedia or with anybody, anybody
seeing that I'm pushing myselfto be the best version of myself
sees me with that drink, thenI'm going to let them down.
But then I think to myself I'mlike, okay, there are pictures

(47:55):
of me online right now whatappears to be alcohol, but I
went to mocktails.
I stopped drinking booze, likewhen I'm out with, because I
know I had a problem.
But I can't admit that thisproblem's in the back of my head
, because as we're talking aboutthe booze and as we're talking

(48:23):
about this, I remember the goodtimes, the fleeting good times.
But I also remember that I haveanxiety.
So I was on Lexapro for a longtime, and when I was on Lexapro
is when I was drinking myheaviest, because what happens
when you're on Lexapro a lot ofpeople don't understand this
when you're on an anti-anxietymedicine, you could drink a

(48:43):
metric shit ton.
And the problem is you keepdrinking and drinking and
drinking and you're like, why amI not getting drunk?
Then, boom, you're drunk.
So I'm drinking and drinking,and drinking and I'm taking
Lexapro and I'm wondering whyI'm depressed.
Why am I still depressed if I'mon Lexapro?
Because I'm drinking thevisceral fat around my stomach.

(49:03):
I had a solid stomach, thesolid when I was 300 pounds.
My stomach was solid because itwas just empty, just fat.
And while I'm on thisconversation with you guys,
while we're talking tonight, I'mthinking to myself.
I'm like you know what?
I did have a problem withalcohol and, yes, cold turkey
for me is different.
But as we're talking, as we'redrinking, I could almost feel

(49:27):
that watering.
You know that huh, that smokybourbon.
You know how cool it is to beat the bar.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
It's right inside of us, jay See, bourbon, you know
how cool it is to be at the bar.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
It's great inside of us, jay.
See, I think about like when Iused to go out with a friend and
we'd have like these smokydrinks and I'm like, oh, this is
so cool, oh, it tastes so good,and it's like the best thing
ever.
And then I'm thinking to myself, like why do I need that?
And like it's the elixir.
It's that the social anxiety.
You think like, hey, you knowwhat, if I have that drink, I

(50:01):
could talk more.
But what I'm learning now is Idon't need a drink in order to
be my true self.
I could go out there and Icould talk shit all day long as
my normal self without a drink.
And, as a matter of fact, I'mreally into music now because I
could listen to it, I could hearit, I could see it.
And the best thing about all ofthis going to concerts sober.
And I'm watching people atconcerts with these 20, 50-ounce

(50:25):
.
They were drinking like gallonsof booze and God knows how much
you're spending.
But the thing is the next day.
I remember every song, Iremember that feeling and I
remember the company I was with.
I remember how great it was tobe with these people and be with

(50:46):
certain people and just it's sospecial because we're sober and
we're seeing it.
We're experiencing it together.
We're seeing these thingstogether and we're seeing life
together, sober, and that's thething is, like there's so much
around it that we just, ah, it'sjust peer pressure, man, and
and that's the thing is like,just admitting it, that's the

(51:06):
biggest thing, and that's what Iwant to get into now is like,
when you admit it, how do youget help?
And you guys have both gonedifferent paths and that's the
one thing we need to talk aboutis how do you get help?

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Real quick.
I want to talk about peerpressure one more time, because
what I've been able to do withpeer pressure is flip it you
talked about like an image thatthere is on social media.
I'm trying to create a brandfor myself.
I'm trying to create an imageby relapse.
If I start drinking again, Ihave to think what is that going
to do to my image?

(51:36):
So I'm actually going ahead andI am trying to double down on
peer pressure, but I'm trying touse it now for something
positive, because I know I haveenough tools on my tool belt to
manage peer pressure fromdrinking.
But I'm going to go ahead andI'm going to leverage the image
that I'm building and thatpressure to continue to keep
this image, because it's trulywho I am.

(51:58):
It's not a facade, it's notfake what I put out on social
media, the things that I talkabout with people when we talk
about this.
This is me, this is what Ibelieve.
So I think if you can leveragethe peer pressure a little bit
and turn it into a positive,you're going to have a recipe
for success.
I just wanted to point that outthere about the peer pressure.

(52:22):
But we can talk about, like thehow of how Frank and I both did
this, because our stories aredifferent.
I never went to treatment.
I contemplated treatment but Ididn't go.
I've probably been to non-firstresponder AA meetings zero.
I did AA virtually because whenI got jammed up and I lost my
job and I started getting sober,it was COVID.
So I did a handful of AAmeetings but I didn't do AA, I

(52:45):
didn't do NA, I didn't go totreatment.
I didn't do smart recovery.
I built myself a recoveryprogram that worked for me.
And what did I do?
I cut toxic people out of mylife.
I set boundaries with thosepeople.
I set boundaries with alcohol.
I got into my fitness again forreal.
I ate healthy Social connectionI talked about.

(53:06):
I surrounded myself with goodpeople who believed in me.
I stopped drinking.
I got into therapy one-on-onetherapy.
This was my recovery plan.
Today, in October, I'll havefive years sorority.
Today I still see the sametherapist that I started seeing,
and it's not because I'mtriggered to drink.
I just continue to see atherapist because I just

(53:27):
literally like to talk tosomebody who has an outside
perspective on what I'm goingthrough in life.
Right, and when shit hits thefan and I need to navigate
certain situations.
I know that I have somebodythere, but I didn't do like I
said.
I wasn't a formal guy.
I am an advocate because I'veseen it work.
But there's not one way torecovery.

(53:48):
There are multiple pathways torecovery and if you've tried a
handful of times and it doesn'twork, maybe it's time to try
something different.
Handful of times and it doesn'twork, maybe it's time to try
something different.
If you've not done AA andyou've tried to do things
Jason's way and you fall backinto the same exact cycle and
you fall back into the sameexact mess before, well, guess
what?
Maybe you should try AA, maybeyou should give that a shot.

(54:10):
You know there's a ton ofdifferent ways you can do this.
At the end of the day, whatmatters is are you not drinking?
Are you putting in the workinto yourself?
Is there personal growthhappening and are you
identifying and facing thereasons as to why you used to
drink?
And if you can do that in anyspectrum, in any way, shape or

(54:30):
form, that to me is a recoveryplan right.
There doesn't have to be aformal way, it doesn't have to
be a.
You can do it yourself and youcan develop a really solid
recovery plan and it can work,and I'm proof of that.
Like I said, I've done things inmy recovery that have worked so
far.
So, in my mind, if this hasworked for me this long, coming

(54:52):
up on five years why would Ichange it?
It's not broken.
Don't fix it right now.
Now, it's not broken.
I'm not going to fix it.
And guess what?
If things ever fall off and Ineed to come up with a backup
plan, I will.
There's options out there, butfor me, that was how I got sober
and, like I said, I'm going tokeep it going because there's no
reason to change it right now.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
And frank frank's is a little bit different than mine
yeah, uh, thank you, nick, forsharing that because it's you
know, it's still five, six yearsin right since 2019, and it's
still still not easy to talkabout like I don't want.
You know, if people do followus at reps like, oh, we're out
there, we're talking about it.

(55:31):
It's not like nick, we have themost conversations like I even
have the conversation with nicklike man, like I think I gotta
slow down on some things becauseI've shared so much today was
like a way to help people out.
That's, ultimately.
It was and it still isobviously um 12 steps,
alcoholics, anonymous, live,learn, pass on um and uh.
But when you're sharing so much, you don't really have I'm

(55:52):
really noticing like a a chanceto really process and be like
damn, I really went through alot of shit and like I just
realized I grabbed a seltzer butlike that could be a trigger,
I'm not going to drink out ofthis video Like it looks like a
beer.
Can you know so little thingslike that?
It's there, it's there.
That's why we have these tools.
That's why we have respondertalk.
That's why there's so manyother groups out there.
Yeah, I just wanted to put thatout there and you know, even

(56:17):
take a pause for a second.
It was okay to pause out there,right, and we don't need to
have all the answers right now.
I mean, 2025 has probably beenthe hardest year of my life
coming forward to it.
You know, jay, I messaged youon the side.
I was like I got to.
You know, there's a story I gotto share with you that I have
never came public with, right,you know, and it it right.

(56:40):
You know, um, and it's beenreally, really tough and it's
really made me dive back into myrecovery.
Um, the the deeper parts of it.
Um, but for me, I mean step one, apple oaks, anonymous, we're
powerless over alcohol and ourlife has become unmanageable.
So when people think their lifeis not unmanageable, like, oh,
I still have a roof over my headand I have a car and I have a
family, but, like, what is thatinternal voice telling you?

(57:02):
Like, how much are you reallybattling with yourself
throughout the day?
How much?
What's your inner peace scale?
Look like I'm still trying, I'm, I battle it every single day.
Still six years in, what do youdo?
Um, but I know that it doesn'thurt as much when I call my body

(57:24):
.
I know that I'm able to go onemore rep.
I know I'm able to show up forother people and I can literally
count on myself and try tolearn more that I can lead from
myself.
It's nick.
You know what i're looking for.
I can parent myself and I thinka lot of the time we use
alcohol we're not parentingourselves, we're looking for

(57:48):
that.
It's a cry for help.
That's how I looked at it, man,in my drinking.
It was I'm in a lot of pain.
At first it's fun, it's great,you're going out, you're doing.
You know I've got to tell aboutmore stories, right, we all
have them.
And then it gets to that point,man, where you're like drinking
that bourbon by yourself andthat's a guard.
You're like and make therunning joke.
I could walk into the same barand be like frank, where you

(58:11):
been like, oh, I've been in thebathroom the whole time.
Six years later they don't evennotice, you're gone, that bar
stool, they, they don't evenknow and they're still like man.
This person is so much painthat they need this substance to
escape reality and it's reallytough and it's not even just
booze.
We talk about social media.
It's so much, so much.
People are really in pain andit's hard to admit that you need

(58:33):
help Women, men, especially inman culture with the way that we
were raised as a provider and aprotector and I can't, you know
, I can't cry in front of mywife and I can't talk about this
, and it's a fucking real storyfor me for a long time and I had
this story in my head.
I think it's is the story wetell ourselves the truth or is

(58:53):
it just familiar?
That's what I've been reallysaying to myself over the past
few weeks.
Is the story I'm telling rightnow is it really the truth, or
is it just familiar to me from agalaxy far, far away and I
think in cop culture that's sotrue with alcohol.
Is it the truth, or was it justthis familiar old school folk
tale that cops used to drink onthe job and this is how it was

(59:15):
and you gotta fit in to do this?
And then you see all these guysgetting jammed up, or they're
retiring and they're divorcedalready twice, or they have this
child support and it's like, doI really want to live that life
, you know?
So it's just a something to beaware of.
Um, and most people and I'vecreated amazing friendships and

(59:37):
friendships have gotten better,stronger.
They're in your corner.
You know the people that aregoing to talk shit about you and
smack about you is becausethey're jealous and envious that
they can't put down a drink.
And then you are living a lifethat we created.
We are creating this life.
There's no magic shortcut forus how to be a father, how to be

(59:59):
a cop, how to live life,retirement right.
We create our own destiny.
There's no such thing asdestiny and it's our choices,
and I know the destiny that Iwant.
I can't afford a drink.
I don't know if I have anotherone left in me, because I know
what can happen and that scaresthe shit out of me, like Nick
was saying, and it got to thatpoint of that when my back was

(01:00:26):
literally against the wall.
I was like do I just end my ownlife Right, like it's over?
And that was sometimes.
I think today is like damn, Ireally it was seven years ago,
six years ago.
And I'm like I really it wasseven years ago, six years ago.
And I'm like I made it through.
And then, instead of getting soangry at that part of myself, it
was just if we could look atthat suicidal part and instead

(01:00:48):
of getting scared of it andfeeling so judgmental of it and
like what the fuck is wrong withme and, oh my gosh, like you
know, I'm gonna lose everything.
It's like getting curious withit.
You're here because you'reprotecting me from something.
You're protecting me of what?
Feeling something so intense,so something that will make you

(01:01:09):
feel like less of a man inquotes, and you don't want me to
feel that anymore.
You would think you see how I'mtalking.
It sounds it's, it's crazy, butyou think that where, right?
All the parts of Frank arebetter off, but we want to be
here.
So invite them to the dinnertable, have the conversation.
Like this man, why do you wantto drink so bad right now?
Tell me like it sounds crazy,but that's the conversation you

(01:01:31):
got to have with yourself andit's hard work and it might lead
you to pick up a drink or ashot and you know, but then
you're on the right track tosomething.
So once I really just was takenover, I felt like a zombie on
the medication, drinking off themedication oh, why would I take
medication?
I'm talking about ssris.

(01:01:51):
I felt like a zombie when Icould just drink.
So, yeah, like you were talkingabout jay, if you're on
antidepressants very powerfulmedication please don't drink on
it, please.
That's literally giving youralcohol some steroids.
It will really beat you down.
But it was that point of I hadno in my mind.
It literally got to the pointdo I want to live or do I want

(01:02:12):
to die?
And in my mind I thought I lostmy job.
My mind, I thought I lost myjob.
I thought I lost everythingbecause I had two different
departments college football,beautiful girlfriend, eagle
scout, volunteer, firefighter,decent weightlifter.
I got nothing else to live for.
That's what it was telling me.
Like you did everything youwant in your life.
You have nothing else, man,just and this pain for yourself.

(01:02:33):
We'll move on.
Maybe we'll find anotherspiritual world, maybe we'll
find another body in the futureand try it all over again.
You know, and you don't want toput your family through this.
So just move on, frank, right,but that's just one part of you.
So if we can bring that thedrinking, the depression, it's
just.
It's not who we are, it's justa part of us and we need to

(01:02:55):
realize that it's really had.
It's helped, really helped me.
Like I said, in 2025, I'll beblunt, I mean, I'll come forward
with it.
I went to purchase a firearm in2024 of August and I got denied

(01:03:17):
and I was on this list for sixyears when I got help in 2018 at
the hospital and I was a flagJay red flag law in New York
state.
Should I have a firearm?
Involuntary mission at ahospital triggers mental health
hygiene law 9.27.
I had no idea I'm on this listI had.
I was back full duty for twoyears with the NYPD, supposed to
get promoted to SergeantSeptember of 2024.
Since I'm restricted, theymight be found out took my

(01:03:40):
firearm away and I've been in abattle ever since with the state
.
It's looking good to getremoved from the next federal
next list.
You know had to get statefingerprinted again criminal
background check, fbi backgroundcheck over five like letter of
recommendations explain whathappened, how they do another

(01:04:00):
risk assessment.
So when I was saying 2025 washard because I had to relive
that all again, I thought it wasdone.
I thought you know I'm the copthat raised his hand and checked
myself in the hospital threetimes with my family and you
know this is the hero journey,right, and it brought back some.
It brought back some, someminotaurs, but with people in my

(01:04:21):
corner, like Nick and Raps andmy beautiful wife and my family,
and when we're at that point,we realize how much we have to
lose if I pick up a drink, andwhen no one's perfect I'm not
perfect, I'm working on it.
That's a great quote.
You realize how many people arein your corner.
You realize how many people arein your corner and a major

(01:04:42):
motivational factor for me waslike I'm not going to let them
win, like I put everything onthe line right as a cop.
In my mind, then, to do thehardest thing, I feel like it is
as an officer.
Besides having to fire a weapon, I truly believe I need help.

(01:05:04):
That's probably the secondhardest thing as a cop.
I don't know if you guys wouldagree with me to come forward
with and living in the unknown.
Am I going to keep my job?
What are my coworkers going tosay?
Are they going to invite meback out Right and taking that
risk and that chance?
But the more in this policerealm people are talking about

(01:05:26):
it, I want the cop to get thehelp because I don't want a cop
who's hung over don't running asector next to me or with me.
I don't know.
Our life is on the line right.
So thinking of it like that, um,so it was a hard battle, but
we're still here, right, sobertoday, and um are just.
We're preparing ourselves withour recovery, with our fitness,
with talks like these, formoments like this that don't we

(01:05:47):
don't even know it exists yet,but it's going to happen.
It's not a matter of if, it's amatter of when you're going to
get that call and be like shit.
Am I sober and do I?
Am I?
Do I have the emotional toolsto handle this right now and do
I?
Am I?
Do I have the emotional toolsto handle this right now?
What am I going to do?
That's where, like, thescatterbrain happens, and but
that's what we're preparing for,something bigger than ourselves
in the future.
And it's not a matter of if,right, it's a matter of when,
and if you have kids too,they're bound to you for life.

(01:06:09):
You gotta be ready.
So I appreciate you giving methe opportunity to share that.
You know I'm going to hopefullyget promoted soon, get back
reinstated, full duty.
I've been working domesticviolence for the last year.
It's been a great learningexperience.
But just as a catch like acliche to officers and each
state is different.
If you're a gun guy, right,have the Knicks and the Red Flag

(01:06:30):
.
Each state is different.
The ERPO they would call ithere in New York is that when
you are PBA or you're going tohelp an officer, make sure you
have a relationship with thehospital.
Make sure when you go there,knowing if you have it like how
many departments have an actualcrisis management plan if they
have an officer and you knowwhat, jay, it's scary.

(01:06:51):
I know a lot of departmentsthat have zero, zip, nothing.
What are you going to do?
So I would say, take leadershipof that.
If you're a higher up in there,if we have an officer in crisis
, where are we going to takethem?
How are we going to get themhelp?
And then also have someone bethere to lead the way?
Cause every time I went to thehospital, jay was with my family
.
I had no idea I was on thislist, I had no idea I was an
involuntary admission.
So I purchased that firearm andI got denied.

(01:07:12):
So, knowing, voluntarily orinvoluntarily, yeah, I was in a
really bad place, but I can't goback right.
That's how the victim mindsetcan get us, but at the end of
the day, we got to save anofficer's life.
This is really just a job and Iknow many people who have left
early because of police work.
And that's good for you, man.

(01:07:34):
You're not running from itanymore and that's the biggest
message tonight have to run fromit.
You don't have to run from italone like we want you to be
that best version of yourselfand we want you to be easy on
yourself.
When we could do that, we canreally start to heal and then we
can learn.
So far, but, just likeeverything else, one day at a
time.
The days do add up and um islooking, the dust is settling

(01:07:59):
and should be a sergeant by theend of the year or sooner than
later.
But I just wanted to share thatfor the first time because it
was a lot.
What do you think that's thebest part?
You hear the whole timers inthe AA room when you start
thinking you have your recovery,hit more meetings, because
that's when I say, oh, I gotthis.
And that's why they say it's awe program, not a me program.

(01:08:19):
And it doesn't have to be AA.
It could be a support group, itcould be a close friend,
someone you can feel safe with.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
I thank God you brought that up.
I thank you for sharing thatstory because, yeah, I am a gun
guy and yeah, that's.
You know, that's your career,that tool is your career.
And we talk all day long and,geez, we have a lot of friends
that talk about this stuff,especially when it comes to PTSD
, when it comes to now withalcoholism, when it comes to

(01:08:49):
suicide.
Hey, you know what?
We talk all day long and oncein a while you get some
management buy-in saying yes,come forward, talk about your
suicidal ideation, talk aboutyour PTSD, talk about your booze
, get the help that you need.
But when you do and you don'thave, when you do and you don't

(01:09:10):
have the right guidance and theverbiage saying involuntary or
voluntary, even when you'rethere, voluntary, one word is
ruining your life.
One word is steading you backyears.
And I can see in your eyes andfor the listeners out there, you
can see the pain.
This is the pain you're tryingto avoid by becoming sober and

(01:09:34):
you're getting re-victimizedagain.
You're going back and you knowwhat, frank, you've told your
story probably a hundred times,hundreds of times, Not this
story, but your sobriety story.
And how many people have youhelped?
How many people have Nickhelped?
How many people who have gottensober have helped other people
by getting sober?
But then you have the peoplewho are still on the job, drunk

(01:09:55):
on the job, need the help,absolutely need the help, but
they are so afraid to comeforward because of stuff like
this.
And we're talking about boozetonight.
But we need to have anotherthing, another conversation when
it comes to PTSD and suicide,because we got stories about

(01:10:17):
that too.
But, frank, seriously, you'rere-victimized again.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
No, thank you, Jay.
I appreciate that.
I think it talks about justtalking about this and
responding to all the victimmindset you know and and trying
to have compassion and couragefor myself of we have.
It's okay that we are thevictim, because it's true, but
then it's like what are we goingto do with that victim mindset?
Because I lived in that victimmindset for like six months of
2025 and I did not like the manI was becoming.

(01:10:44):
I'm going to be straightforwardand, jay, probably from reps,
posts and everything you have noidea, right, you know, trying
to show up, trying to do this,you know, for other people, keep
your organization going.
No overtime, my schedule's allover whack.
Just bought a house, had a baby.
It did a lot of damage, but myrecovery and my higher power and
people like Nick and followingpeople like you, jay, and just
having that support group dudeliterally saved my life, not

(01:11:06):
even kidding and it saved mylife in 2019 and it's still
saving my life today.
That's why it's so importantand you talked about that.
A lot of departments fail on.
What is a relationship?
It's communication and trust.
That's literally a relationshipwith a husband, a wife, a
friend, a son, a child, whatevera daughter.
It's communication, trust,compromising, right.

(01:11:27):
So you have listen, the wholemental health system.
I'm really like, the more thatwe diagnose people from a book
like, the more like people aregoing to live by that diagnosis
and they're're going to like oh,I got to do this, this and that
, right, and it's like it's juststarting with, it's just like
compassion and going back toyour roots and forgiving the two
, like just forgiving the peoplethat taught you life in the

(01:11:49):
beginning.
Everyone I feel like everyonegoes through it.
You have to I'm getting reallydeep here.
Your mom and your dad.
They had the tools that theyknew they had.
They learned from someone else.
They tried to do the best thatthey could and you have to do
that inner child work.
You know nick is a therapist.
Now it's it's.
You know that's all his alley,really, but to me it's really

(01:12:09):
helped a lot.
But it's that relationship,that trust, and a lot of
departments don't have it.
Man, that's why people likereps has no affiliation with the
department for a reason.
2019, 2019, 10 officers lost alot of suicide in the NYPD 10,.
You know, there's some reallyscary numbers I just don't want
to come public with right now,but in the year from 2024 to
2025, it's not good.

(01:12:29):
So I get you know from a legalstandpoint and the job has to
protect themselves.
Like, yeah, if you are reallydown and you're using alcohol
and coke and you are diagnosed Iwas diagnosed with major
depressive disorder and alcoholuse disorder.
The firearms there are lethal.
All it does is take is one badnight to go on a drinking binge
and we saw the studies right.
But at the same time, recoveryis possible and I'm living prime

(01:12:54):
example.
So the more we put time oh,this officer, we need to give
this officer a year to getbetter.
If he doesn't get a year, wegot to fire him, but then he
could be one of the bestofficers of your department or
turn out to be something likeyou know, and those are the
stories that we love to see.
And when you put a timeline onsomething, that's when you start

(01:13:17):
putting that peer pressure,that pressure on the individual.
Like if you don't get, if youdon't complete these classes or
you don't get sober and get allthis help, and, like you know,
six months you're out.
And I think that's where thefailure starts.
And I saw Nick's comment there,but I would love Nick really
quick just to share his story onlike how he met me and reps.
I think it's really impactful,you know, for this.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
Yeah, so how I met Frank and how I kind of got into
responders is, you know, like Isaid, I started my own recovery
plan and I started my sobrietyjourney October 9th.
That's my that's my sober date2020.
And I was using a bunch ofdifferent resources to manage
what I was going through Cause,like I said, full blown arrest.
I was using a bunch ofdifferent resources to manage
what I was going through Because, like I said, full blown arrest
.
I was in the newspaper, it allsucked and my sentence date was

(01:14:05):
in February of 2021.
And, leading up to my sentencedate, every emotion that I was
experiencing when I pled guiltyand I was out public and I was
in the paper everything camerushing back and I said I need
more now.
I need more resources, I needmore tools on my tool belt to
help me get through this,because I don't want to go
backwards.
Right, I've started to gainprogress, I'm not going back.

(01:14:27):
And I reached out to Frank and IDM'd him on the reps account
and I guarantee you I have neverdeleted my DMs with reps, so I
guarantee you it's still inthere.
I know it is.
And I DMed him and I said, hey,man, like I see what you're
doing, I like it.
I'm going through some stuff.
I'm not a cop anymore.
I'm about to officially losethis whole career, but I need

(01:14:48):
some help.
And I'll never forget Frank'sresponse as he DMs me back and
he says hey, man, in my opinionyou're retired early and you're
welcome.
And I started going throughresponder talk and I started
going to our fundraising eventsand this is how I built the
community and I said I want tobe involved.
And you know, I said earlier,like I said, I want to make a

(01:15:09):
career out of this and I owe alot of this to Frank, because
he's the one that was there forme.
He was the one that allowed meand gave me a platform and gave
me an audience to share my story.
And hadn't it, had it not beenfor that, I don't know where I'd
be.
And I forever that I can'trepay to Frank and everybody
reps, responders, because Itruly wouldn't be where I am

(01:15:30):
right now without them.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
I love it, brother.
Nick, I appreciate you sharingtonight, and Frank too.
You know we are going to haveanother conversation, I
guarantee it.
I think we should really keepthis communication flow going.
We need to talk about suicide.
We need to talk about PTSD.
We need to talk about gettingfit.
We need to talk about thepositive aspects of giving all
that shit up, because I'mtelling you right now that

(01:15:55):
double chin is so cool to getrid of.
The love handles are so cool toget rid of.
The love handles are so cool.
To get rid of the 44-inch downto a 34-inch waist is great man,
I could do this all day long.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
It's a flex.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
Of course, man, I got a flex about it.
Okay, frank, you're up, man.
Let's close this out withsomething positive, man.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
Yeah, something positive.
Look at, you know, three dadsbeing the best versions of
themselves.
You know we didn't drink today.
You know, and I think, if youcan look at the positive, we
always hear the stories of theofficers and the statistics of
this is what happens on the joband this many cops die from
cardiovascular disease.
But what about the cops thatdidn't make it right?

(01:16:37):
What about the cops that didtransform their life Right?
Like, let's try to change ourmindset and our approach with
positivity and listening tostories and scrolling through
positive things instead of allthe negative.
Cause you know, in this job,it's how some people, a lot of
cops, survive and cope on thatnegative activity.
But what if one day, just forone day, you just didn't have an

(01:16:58):
agenda, you didn't have anyexpectations and you just went
and you were just yourself?
Well, how would that feel toyou and to me?
That's the tool I want to leavewith everyone today.
I think that's a positivequestion.
Right, it's a positivestatement is just for today, I'm
not going to have an agenda,I'm not going to have
expectation.

(01:17:18):
If it's a workday, if it's afamily day, I'm not going to
have an agenda.
I'm not going to haveexpectation.
If it's a work day, if it's afamily day, I'm not going to
plan anything after work.
I'm going to see where lifetakes me, I'm going to see where
my thoughts and my feelingstake me, and then that's where
the real work starts.
That's where we can see what'sreally dragging us into
different directions.
We're here, we're protectors,we're survivors, we're
protectors, we're survivors.

(01:17:39):
I think that's very positiveand and we're thriving.
And, uh, I couldn't have doneit alone without any one of you.
Um, positive, we're here, we'relive out of, uh, friends of
recovery, westchester here,white plains, new York.
Uh, thank you to theirpartnership.
Uh, we'm in a studio, nick isin the library and it's been
amazing that Reps for Spindershas its first office space to be

(01:18:00):
able to collab and do thingslike that.
So, jay, I just want to thankyou for the opportunity for
coming here.
We have some great.
We're bringing the Rock, theRiver back again in October.
Can't wait for that.
Myself and Christina andanother team member, danny, got
into the New York City Marathon,so I'll be running the New York
City Marathon for the firsttime and I can't wait to cross
that finish line because I havea lot of emotions to release and

(01:18:22):
running.
Actually, I picked up runningFor all you lifters don't
blacklist me but that's whatrecovery has been able to give
me too, giving me able to takemore risk and chances.
Oh, you know, I don't need todo this, or I'm I, I'm okay with
just doing.
It gets me out of my comfortzone to try different things.

(01:18:42):
Um so yeah, thank you, jay, somuch.
I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Thanks guys.
Okay, that was a pretty intenseepisode.
I really appreciate Frank andNick coming on.
They had to get going tonight,but and we could have talked a
lot more about booze we couldhave talked a lot more about
booze.
Believe me, I could have talkeda lot more about booze.
There's a lot of things I don'twant to admit.
You know, I'm 52 years old.

(01:19:09):
I bring up my age a lot because, man, I was drinking since I
was 13.
And when I was a teen, I woulddrink to escape.
Later on in life I would drinkto quelch bad feelings and try
to be in good spirits all thetime and I thought it would help
me with my creativity.

(01:19:30):
I would see Ernest Hemingwayand I'd be like well, if that
dude can drink.
Well, that dude killed himself.
The reality is he had demonsand he drank too much and he
killed himself.
How many people have lost theirlife to booze?
How many people have lost somuch of their respect to booze?
Myself included.

(01:19:52):
A lot of my identity for a verylong time was drinking and it's
pretty tough to to think aboutit and to admit it I mean, I've
talked about it before on thepodcast but to actually sit down
and say you know what?
I'm never going to have a drinkagain is pretty tough for me.
Will I ever drink again?

(01:20:12):
I may, but I would much rathernot, because I love this version
of me that doesn't need thatpoison.
You know, I had a former friendand we would go out and you
know you'd have that smoky drink, this and that and it would be
like, oh, this is so cool andthat was our lifestyle.

(01:20:34):
Like you know, dinner and adrink drinks drinks.
You know the spicy drink, thistype a drink Drinks drinks.
The spicy drink, the this typeof drink.
But now I have someone veryspecial to me and we go out and
we don't drink.
And we don't.
You don't need it.
That's what I'm trying to getaround to.
You don't need the booze to beyour character.

(01:20:56):
You don't need the drink to beyour identity.
You don't need to be spendinghundreds of dollars a week on
partying and booze.
And I'm preaching, but I'mpreaching off of experience.
I'm preaching off of.
There is so much more.
I was mentioning that tonightabout going to concerts now and

(01:21:17):
being able to hear the music andto be able to be in that moment
, to be able to enjoy it.
And before I thought if I hadto go to these concerts I would
need the drink, I think Ithought I needed the drink in
order to get that fullexperience.
I don't need the drink tosquash the demons anymore, and

(01:21:37):
now I could think about otherthings and seek help.
So one thing we really wantedto get into tonight and I don't
think we kind of ran out of timeis that there is help.
You can get help.
You don't have to do this coldturkey.
Now, one thing Frank and Nickboth have is reps for responders
.
Every Sunday night they do reptalk, responder talk, and I've

(01:22:01):
spoken on it a couple of times.
But it's a really goodorganization.
Check out reps for responders,especially if you're in the
protector community.
But you know AA is out there.
There's so many ways you canget help.
Therapy I mean work on yourself.

(01:22:35):
The physical aspect we touchedon that tonight too is like look
, I was 300 and something poundsbefore and now I'm in a low
200s.
I couldn't get that way if Iwas still drinking.
So there's a lot of positivesof it.
But nobody's saying you have tocompletely stop drinking.
Nobody's saying you have toever just say I'm done forever,
I have a problem.
You might not have a problem,but just think about maybe one
day a week, two days a week, youknow, four or five, six days a
week.
You might want to readjust yourthinking.

(01:22:57):
When it comes to drinking,nobody's saying you have to give
it up completely.
That is one thing I don't wantyou to get from this whole
conversation tonight.
Nobody's saying that you're analcoholic and you have to give
it up completely.
No, not everybody is analcoholic and not everybody
needs to give it up completely.
But just take an adjustment,take just a step back and think
about the positives andnegatives and where you want to

(01:23:20):
be.
But anyway, that is.
This has been one of the uh,one of the episodes I've wanted
to do for a very long time and Iappreciate you tuning into the
protectors podcast and I do wantto thank again Nick and Frank
for sharing so deeply, and I'mlooking forward to our next
episodes, because we do need totalk about a lot of different

(01:23:40):
topics that touch on theprotector community, and thank
you all for helping out.
The protectors become what itis, take care.

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538 | Frank Voce & Nick Ricciotti

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