Fear The Walking Dead S8 E11 & E12 | TWDU - The Recap! The Walking Dead Universe

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(00:06):
Hey everyone, Welcome to the Recapof the Walking Dead universe. We are
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we are covering Fear the Walking DeadSeason eight episodes eleven and twelve.

(00:29):
The end of the show. Forthose of you joining us live tonight,
thanks for taking time out of yourevening to be here. I'm your host,
Tamara, and I love a goodTV show and a good book.
If you'd like to reach out tome, you can find me pretty much
everywhere at the Recap pods, andif you're into books, you can also
find me at shelf Addiction. Joiningme is show co host Lisa Welcome,

(00:52):
Lisa, Hey, Tamara, Heyeveryone. My name is Lisa Orbin.
I am an author. I amalso the founder of Indies Uni publishing House,
and I love of all things popculture. So if you'd like to
connect with me online, you canpretty much find me everywhere at Lisa organ
Author or at Indies United pub Allright, so before we get started,
we would like to remind you thatwe would love your participation in this conversation,

(01:14):
and so so, if you arelistening live on YouTube, hit us
up in the comments section. Ifyou're catching this on a replay, you
can still leave a comment on anyplatform, or you can even call us
using the voicemail link in the shownotes. If you are new to the
podcast, we are laid back inour few style, right, Lisa,
absolutely, Tamra. This is aconversation, not a dissertation. Right,
no scene by scene breakdowns here.We jump around, and of course,

(01:37):
huge spoiler alert for everything every showin the world through yesterday's episodes. So
if you're good with that, thisis the place for you, and let's
just jump into it. We havea lot to talk about. Uh huh
or maybe not. I don't know, wtf did I just watch? Okay?
Yeah, I definitely felt that,and so you know, I was

(02:05):
kind of wondering why they put thesetwo episodes together, and I really couldn't
tell why they did that other thanthe fact that they want it over with.
Oh my god, everyone is flippingback and forth. They're this way,
they're this way there. Nobody changeslike that so rapidly. Nobody.

(02:25):
Yeah, they all have like personality, two different personalities, and they're flipping
back and forth like no one's business. They're arguing, they like each other,
They're they're holding guns up at eachother non stop, incessantly, to
the point where a gun isn't evensomething to be scared of. I know,
you're not gonna shoot me, You'renot gonna shoot any Oh my god.

(02:51):
The recriminations, the accusations, theflip flopping, the Okay, and
I gotta tell you the reason whyTroy doesn't like Madison maybe the dumbest thing
I've ever heard. I agree.Okay, So his wife was dying,
full stop, she got bit allright, So Alicia comes and saves her

(03:16):
life, yes, and stays withthem until she is better, and then
she went on to live many moreyears. Right, But he's mad because
apparently she was infected by Alicia's wayof thinking. If Alicia didn't think that

(03:38):
way, his wife never would havebeen alive to begin with. I know
exactly. She wouldn't have had thatbaby, never would have had the baby,
never nothing, none of that wouldhave taken place. M hmm,
all right. So the fact isis Alicia came and saved her life,
saved that baby, and gave himmany more years with her that he never

(04:00):
would have had with either one ofthem. And yet somehow she's the bad
guy and he's willing to destroy halfthe civilized world that's left to get to
Madison to make her pay. Sothis is also a thing this show doesn't
know how to actually kill anyone,because how does Troy think He kills her,

(04:24):
gets her her arm and says she'sdead. She isn't, Like what
kind of killing was that? Whereyou thought she's dead and she's not?
Right. I Also, I thinkit's kind of funny because apparently Alicia stabbed
him in the stomach with that withthat arm, and then Madison turned around

(04:45):
and stabbed him again, Yeah,with the same arm, right, Okay.
And I know they were saying,well, there's symmetry, you know,
we're going back to the be Ohmy god, just shut up,
Okay, But I was thinking,at least Lisa finally got her quick easy
death, because I'm like, he'sall being friendly. I'm like, what
are you all friends? Now?What the F is this? And then

(05:08):
I'm like, oh good, shechanged her mind and staff no, you
know, when she should have killedTroy was right there in that truck.
That's when she should have killed him. Okay, everything that happened after that,
this whole thing with the with thekid, you know, oh that's
actually Alicia's baby. Oh my god, Oh my god. So honest to

(05:32):
god, I was so disgusted whenhe said that. I'm like, the
fuck are you talking about? Likewhat if we find out he was just
lying to get met to manipulate Madison, you know, take care of my
kid. But you know, Ithink if he had just said take care
of my kid, that would havebeen equally sufficient. She wouldn't like,

(05:57):
well maybe she might she was tryingto kill her earlier, but right,
well, and here's the thing.So there's even his flip flopping back and
forth. Oh I now see theair of my ways. Really he didn't,
it was all the front. Itwas a front, now, he
didn't, you know. And he'slike, well, I lie to you,
little one, but it's okay becauseI'm gonna make things right. And

(06:19):
that kid forgives them, all right, and then she shoots Madison, and
then she forgives Madison and then ohmy god, everything, this whole stupid
thing. I'm just honest, thisis the guy's on his chase everyone.
If it was not for this showthat I am doing right now with Tamra,

(06:41):
I never would have finished watching theseries. I would have walked away
and washed my hands of it.I don't care how it is. It's
it was bad, Like there areso many On top of the flip flopping,
the writing was bad. We talkedabout the plot holes, you know,
the character Yeah, yeah, andI mean so all of that,

(07:05):
right, So we get to thatending of episode eleven, that quote unquote
Cliffhanger. I guess we move onand then suddenly it feels like I'm watching
a different show for a minute inepisode twelve, I'm like, wait,
what the I don't know what wasgoing on with the cinematography when they put

(07:25):
everyone on that ship. Yes,it was like like someone had put like
vintage, like a TV vintage screenover it or something, because it had
this kind of brown, hazy feelto it or something. I don't know
what was going on with that,but it didn't go with the rest of
the lighting and mood of the show. Yeah, it got kind of weird.

(07:48):
That was weird. And where dothey get the field for that ship?
I know? So how did youget okay? So you get all
the walkers on the ship and wait, how did they exist exactly know where
Padre was? Yeah? So didthe little girl pointed out on a map?
I mean, how did they know? I don't know, because all

(08:09):
they know all she knew was therewas a lighthouse. Okay, all right,
maybe if that's the only lighthouse inthe area and that's in a map.
Maybe, but even still, becausethe ship that they're on is the
one that what's his name, oh, the brothers sister team not I have

(08:31):
no franglitch, I don't know,okay, but we all know who we're
talking about. That he used tobe in charge, you know. Yeah,
I forgot to sit on a shipand he's complaining because they don't have
any fuel. All right, shipcan't go nowhere this guy. But you
know, I feel like, honestly, that whole thing of him showing back

(08:52):
up was stupid to me because inthe last time we saw him, I
thought that was exit, exit stateleft, We're done with you. Yeah,
I didn't expect him to re showback up. Whatever his bird name
is, I don't know, Right, So he shows up, he's complaining
that they can't get any more fuelbecause no one will give it to you

(09:13):
know, supply them with fuel anymore. Wham. But somehow Troy's people get
this gigantic ship and fill it withfuel to bring it across over to Padre.
I don't know if you guys understandhow much fuel it takes to move
one of those things. But it'snot a gallon or two, right,
all right, Well, we've alreadyaccepted that they don't use logic when writing

(09:39):
this script. It's fairy dust overeverything and just make it happen. It
just happens like everything, you know. And then he basically dies the same
way as sister did. Yeah,and I'm like, then he goes and
dies pretty much immediately. It didn'ttake any time at all, right after
he dropped them into quicksand oh yeah, of that the fiasco of it,

(10:03):
you know. And then Troy savesMadison, and then he has his sudden
change of heart. I realized theerror of my ways as we're drowning in
quicksand you both should you know,honestly, if the two of them had
just died right there, I wouldhave been happy. I mean, I
wouldn't have been mad, to behonest, I wouldn't have been mad either.

(10:24):
But I just knew that would justbe too easy, you know,
I knew that they were going tofind a cheat way out for him.
You know, I found a rooteand I pulled this out. Okay,
whatever. So speaking of impossibility,like things that can't happen, So when
this car crash happened in episode elevenand Troy can't get up, he can't

(10:46):
get out this car. But whenMadison comes and he thinks that his life
is in danger, Oh, hegot his ass up about that car.
Uh huh. I'm like, well, why couldn't you do that for your
daughter, like get up? Well, in considering where he was impaled with
that thing, he should have bledout after I don't know, at least

(11:09):
ten minutes, Yeah, because there'sno way that this man with this gigantic
hole, you know, not toyou know, probably right near his heart,
could suddenly I don't know, thatwas a huge stick. And then
Madison goes to pull the thing out, I'm like, yeah, the no,
and he didn't bleed out and thenyou know, stuck in quicksand and

(11:33):
everything else. I mean, honestly, even if she hadn't killed me,
should have died of infection and heshouldn't have been strong enough to save her,
exactly. He shouldn't have been strongenough to do any of the things
that he did. Yeah, youknow, I've never been impaled by a
giant stick. Don't get me wrong, all right, but I have been

(11:54):
injured before, and I'm here totell you when something. You know,
I dissocated my shoulder once. Itwas almost it was almost impossible to do
anything until that was addressed. Ipulled a muscle in my arm, and
it's you know, sometimes that takesweeks to heal. I could barely like
lift anything over ten pounds. There'sno way I'm dragging someone out of mud

(12:18):
and quicksand or whatever it is.There's no way I can barely swim myself
over there. My arm would hurtso bad. Right, and and dodging
around the walkers while they're at it. No, but that's again, this
is the way of fear the walkingdead. Just whatever to logic, We're

(12:39):
just gonna do what we think wewant to do. And then we have
had Madison that was like, oh, everyone deserves a second chance. And
then she became the baby collector,was living in the no no whatever.
And then you know when she metmatt Or Morgan, she realized that,
you know, everyone deserves a secondchance again, and we're gonna build you

(13:01):
know, Padre to be something special. But now she's on a revenge mission
and she's changed her mind all ofa sudden because yeah, she's now in
agreement with Troy. Yeah, wereally shouldn't be helping people because that's the
way people die. Oh my god, she now this whole Like, the
theme of this season was second chances. Every time we turned around, that

(13:22):
was coming out of someone's mouth.Yeah, our mouth, Victor's mouth.
Somebody is talking about second chances.And then at the end for her to
just do an about face like that, it was very strange, right,
It didn't make any sense at all. None of it made any sense,
no, you know, and she's, you know, giggling and carrying on

(13:43):
after she gets shot by this girl. Good job, I see you've got
it now. Oh my god,are you kidding? The hilarity of that
just what. I just kind oflaughed a little bit. I'm like,
why is she laughing? I'm laughingbecause she's laughing, Like, what is
this a joke? H You learnedthe lesson depend on nobody help nobody,

(14:05):
give nobody a second chance? Areyou kidding me? And then she flip
flops back again. Yes she does, Yes, she does, you know.
And then Victor comes and saves thekid and gives her you know,
she knews you how to do somethingbig to save everyone, all for God's
sakes. So Victor had this wholelike moment like he's like crying and stuff

(14:31):
and reading her the Riot Act basically, and then she's like, oh,
well, no, actually that scenewas pretty good. I will give it
to that actor. I thought thatspecific scene was actually pretty well done by
him. I suppose if any ofit had been in character, it would

(14:52):
have been good. See see thething. Okay, So I'm gonna say
something that I think might be abit controversial. I feel like a lot
of people think the actors did agood job with what they had working with,
and I will say, generally speaking, yes more than no. But

(15:13):
my goodness, this little girl whoplayed Tracy, it was like nails on
a chalkboard. I'm like, whois she? Where does she come from?
Who thought this was good? Dog? Can't find any better. I
know y'all were trying to like keepthe budget tight, but dang, like
this girl cannot act to save herlife. No, And again, I

(15:39):
mean she's just as bad as Madison, and the two of them together was
horrid, right, and then youknow the whole thing. Okay, So
they sent off an incinerary device toget everyone out of there. Everything's on
fired, not everything. They rocketedabout what four of those things. Actually

(16:00):
don't even know if they were insinerary device. We just know that there
was a rocket launcher. All right. Are you telling me that was this
entire compound that you guys have thatyou don't have anything for fire suppression.
You don't even have blankets that youcan beat the fire out with. And
we've never actually gotten a good lookat what padre was, how big it

(16:23):
was, how it was laid out. But I do know this, there
was way more open whenever we didsee it. There was way more open
spaces and there were clear spaces,right, which means they could have probably
gone to the other side of thecompound, or they could have done any
number of things other than we're gonnago out and we're gonna try and get
to the what do you call it? They could have just sat there,

(16:45):
all right. They didn't have toleave the compound, supposedly the whole thing
burnt to the ground, you know, which again I really don't understand it
really shouldn't have. So this alsoin the face of Okay, so two
things happen with that. So firstI know that again they were trying to

(17:06):
say, oh, Madison basically diedthe same way she did before, right
right again this whole symmetry thing,yeah, which I'm like, okay,
whatever whatever. And then also itties right back into again Troy not being
real. He's not being what hesays he is, Like he wants a

(17:26):
place, but yet he was fullready to destroy it. He was going
to destroy it like he did everythingelse, right, And so those people
are willing to destroy it. I'mthinking, how can that be a home
if there's nothing left? Right?So what is this? Like, why
are you keep saying why do youkeep saying I want a home when you
just want to destroy it? Exactly? He's such like a weird like the

(17:48):
way they had his character like.And then I don't know, I don't
understand, like what is happening,Like is he supposed to be doing this
all to protect Tracy or is hejust crazy? He sounds just crazy.
To me at this point. Yeah, well, and his followers are rabbit
too, you know. Oh well, if you give us Tracy, we'll
go away. Whatever. But again, if they really wanted that, they

(18:15):
wouldn't have did they wouldn't have donewhat they did, right, Okay.
And the other part of it wasis they were accepting people into Padre.
If they really just wanted a home, they could have just asked for entrance.
Yes, and you know it mightnot have been easy with Troy,

(18:36):
they might have turned him away,but all those other people they probably would
have let in. Yeah, youknow. And the fact, and I'm
sorry, Padre was supposed to bethis impenetrable whatever, all right, four
four rocket launchers was enough to takethe entire place down. Yeah, weird,

(19:00):
right, right, And then we'vegot Madison going down to the basement
opening up I guess we found outwhere all our oxygen was coming from,
right, opened up all those canisters, you know, and then dove into
her previous domicile and said everything onfire. Yeah, she set everything off
fire. I'm like, what theokay? Because I guess she just didn't

(19:22):
care anymore. Well, she wastrying to get rid of all those zombies
except if people were in there withthe zombies, they wouldn't have been saved.
They would have been incinerated with thezombies, right, and or apparently
they left, I don't they snuckout while she was bringing them down to

(19:42):
the basement. I don't know.But again, if these guys really just
were trying to survive until, youknow, after the fires went out,
they all could have gone down tothe basement and cracked open those oxygen tanks
one at a time and survived whateverwas going up there, and then they

(20:03):
could have gone out, and thenthey could have cleaned up the mess they
could have left, you know,the walls up and everything else. They
wouldn't even had to worry about thezombies at that point, because again,
if they never opened the door andthey were down there, they could have
you know, they could have waitedtill the fires died down and then went
back up. Yeah, but thatwould have been two like that would have

(20:26):
made too much sense. And ifshe didn't go down and this she didn't
do this, then the little eightyear old or seven year old Tracy couldn't
have saved her, which, bythe way, what WTF here we go
again with impossible things. Impossible things, and no one else thought, I
don't know, to go back thereand do anything like for her, Look

(20:49):
for her, yeah, look forany survivors. You mean to tell me
that not one single person just saidokay after the fires and everything else,
and a pair like the zombies arepretty much gone at this point, because
they're all just wandering around out there, and she's got a tent, she's
got a tent up and a wholebunch of other supplies, and they didn't
go back and get any of them. Yep, why not? Good question.

(21:15):
And then here's the part that reallyreally just hit my ass, Well,
what are we going to do witheverybody? Wasn't rebuild Padre with all
the supplies that they have there andthe great big cargo container with everything they
need to rebuild Padre. No,they're gonna take them back to sanctuary.

(21:37):
Mm hm oh my goshing apart.That was part of the whole thing.
When they went there, the wholeceiling collapsed. Ye told me this is
a safe place to take all theseparts. It's stupid, it's dumb,
and it's just an excuse. Honestly, again, it's just an excuse.
I can see them reusing Sherry andDwight in like Dead City or something.

(22:00):
It's an excuse to push them closerback to where they need to be to
make appearance in other places in theworld. I feel like we're not done
with them, and that's what thisis. But there could have been a
better way to do that. Well. And here's the other thing. If
if they're gonna if they're gonna goas far as sanctuary, you know,
he could have said, why don'twe go and see if we can't take

(22:21):
him back to Alexandria. Yes,why not? Why it's it's already established
community, you know. And youknow, honestly, they could benefit from
those supplies. And they didn't takeany of those supplies with them, and

(22:41):
they all just did they just putpeople in the back of those trucks and
just like, yes, that's what'shappened. There are people in the back
of the truck. Yeah. Andand again, if they really wanted somewhere
to go, why didn't they justgo back to the resort and I don't
know, clean that place up.The bottom line is, so let's be
honest. They all can't tolerate eachother anyway. Yeah, they wanted to

(23:04):
be rid of each other. Let'ssplit our split the difference and go carry
on. That's what it was.They didn't have any plans to like work
together. They just thought, wefought this war, let's continue by right.
So we've got Sherry and Dwight withall the kids and whatever parents are

(23:25):
with that group. Well, youknow, we know we still have some
kids. So let's take them fourteenstates now, you know, four states.
Shamee is with them as well asthe little No, because June is
going back to let's spreak the cabin. She's going back to the cabin and
she's taking her little novice with herto learn how to learn medicine. Yeah,
what the I know, So she'sgoing back to the cabin mm hmm.

(23:49):
And then the the Alicia sisters,you know, they all took off
to wherever they were doing. Andthen I guess you know, Victor has
all the Germans lined, you know, put in the back of the truck,
which is just just this image thatno, they're taken off, you

(24:11):
know, just saying it's just aterrible image. Okay, I'm like,
oh, look, you're human trafficking, you're human trafficking. No, So
anyway, there's nowhere for them tosit. I get it, all right,
but I gotta tell you. AndI'd also like to point out that

(24:33):
apparently it's warmed up because everyone's warmand sunny and everything else. What happened
all that frost? Well maybe itwas like a cold I don't know,
cold front, and it's gone,uh huh. And you know they set
it on fire to release the zombies. And but yeah, and just that

(24:55):
whole thing. We'll take them backto sanctuary. You know, the roads
are still good, except god,ceiling fell down on you. Yeah,
it's stupid. You're right. Theyshould have just went to the other place
instead of trying to go back tothe sanctuary, which is I just really
think it's just all the proper placement. We just need them to be here,
right for whatever reason. And andthen and then Alicia shows up.

(25:22):
Okay, so now we did talkabout this, right, We said she's
probably gonna show up. Although Istarted second guessing myself because during this past
week I keep seeing things where peoplewere like, Alicia never wanted to go
back to this show. You know, she was about this show. But

(25:42):
I did come across the article,I was like, how is right?
But I came across the article whereI guess the showrunners did reach out to
her, and she's like, youknow what, lose my number for a
little while and I'll think about it. And then they started having castmates call
her, and it was the Colemanthat, you know, the guy that

(26:04):
plays Victor. I think he wasthe sugar that kind of got her to
come back. So they start theydid some work to get her to come
back. So I don't think Ican't imagine that we'll see her or Madison
or that little girl again. I'mkind of happy, Thank God. I

(26:25):
don't think we'll see them, thankGod. Yeah, you know, well,
and again we had discussed, youknow, and you and I had
both agreed that we wouldn't mind hercoming back, all right. But the
whole circumstance is the way this wholething rolled out, you know, and
oh, everyone's talking about how Madisonsaved the day and they changed Padre to

(26:48):
Madre and you know how she wasblat whatever. So and then oh,
look I found your daughter. Youknow what, daughter? What are you
talking about? The kid? Isthis so? Okay? So let me
just say, how in this earthis Alicia wandering around this Vicinity. Yeah,
she's going under a different name,but she's out there doing stuff still.

(27:14):
How would she not here about hermother and Padre? Right? Because
Troy heard about her, Why didn'tAlisha hurt here? And it's just it
Alicia. I mean, Troy heardabout her from like two states away because
of their repeater. But somehow,somehow Alicia, who's wandering around in the

(27:41):
area, didn't know, I mean, didn't hear her mother's voice, not
once when they were doing that.You know, we have your children,
come and get them, you knowmessages. Right, No one ever said,
you know, there's this woman namedMadison and she's in Padre. She
didn't Alicia didn't even go to checkout Padre after all the obsession that she

(28:02):
had with it. Also, howdid she find Padre? Then? Yeah,
how did Alicia get there? Right? How did she get on the
island? How'd she find it?How did she get on the island?
How how would she know to lookthere? Right? Because again, we
have no we have no idea howmuch time has passed from the time that

(28:23):
Tracy pulled Madison into that tent.I'm going to say about twenty four hours,
but I'm thinking and that's still onthe island, like another part of
the island. There's no way shecould have gotten offul How did Tracy her
get her ass on the island?Exactly? How did she get there?
I can't. I mean, Iguess it's possible she could have swam,

(28:45):
but I don't think so because theyhad to go, you know, it
was a considerable boat ride to getto Padre. Okay, And not to
nitpick, but what child that youngis learning how to swim them in the
apocalypse? Yeah, I mean shemight know how to swim, all right,
I mean it is kind of anifty skill to have, But then

(29:10):
running around burning places to the groundwhen you got time to swim little girl,
right, But I mean there's alsothe fact she's like, it took
me, what would she say,twelve hours or something like that to dig
her out. Yeah, you know, And I gotta tell you, I'm
not sure a child that's small couldhave moved what would need to be moved,
because that was a reinforced bunker.That was again part of the point

(29:36):
of why Padre was supposed to besafe and why the people could have gone
down there. But anyway, butto get down through all that twisted metal
and concrete and everything else, andthen through all the walkers. And you
know, fire doesn't technically kill walkers, it just you know, incapacitates them,

(29:57):
which means she would have been fallingthrough walker's trying to kill them while
she goes in and told her out. I mean, are you kidding me?
Because we know from previous experience whenthat when they get burned, they
don't necessarily die, and you're pullingsomeone who is unconscious mm hmm, they
are significantly happier, Yeah, whenthey should not help you at all.

(30:19):
She's dead weight. No fin way, right, there's no way that this
kid could have gone down and movedall of that rubble and pulled her through
that much of it. And it'syou know, on a lower floor with
reinforced concrete that if it did comedown, oh my god, you know,
I mean we're talking let's not talkconstruction. Let's just say that it

(30:42):
would be a lot. It's impossible, as are most of the things on
this show. It's impossible, right, And then the catalyst alone for Tracy
to change her mind was a storyfrom Victor. Yeah, you shot the
woman, You're over her, andnow you're like, wait, a minute

(31:03):
she did that. Okay, I'mI go look for her. Yeah,
seriously, oh gosh, you know. And then at the end, everyone
you know and at the crossroads andthey're well, you know, I'll take
back some of the things. Ohand how did Alicia find that stupid cat?
Okay, that's what I said too. I'm like, okay, so

(31:26):
Daniels got his cat. But I'mlike, how what that cat should be
dead? What he's like, didyou get here? I'm like, the
fuck? Well, because here's thething. He was an older cat to
begin with. All Right, weknow that about ten years has passed.
The average lifespan of a cat isabout ten to twelve years, and that's

(31:49):
twelve years if they are really welltaken care of. All right, technically,
and again, this cat was anolder cat when we first were introduced
to it. So that cat rightnow is about fifteen to seventeen years old
because he's had it since the beginningof the apocalypse, and Alicia's just carrying

(32:12):
around this random ass cat. Yeah, oh, where did you come from?
I can't. I'm sorry, it'slike I want it. So,
Okay, the finale was nothing lessthan I expected. I'll just put it
that way. It was nothing lessthan what I expected. But as we're

(32:34):
talking, I totally totally did notanticipate talking finding this many problems. But
they're just coming out, they're justfalling out, problem after problem after problem.
I'm not gonna lie. I hatedevery minute of those two hours yesterday,
And honestly it took me four hoursto watch. Oh no, because

(33:00):
I get to the I'm like,oh oh this level, No, it's
dumb, I got it. Ihad a pause it, I have to
take a break, and I hada step away because it was just there's
only so much stupid I can handle. Let anyone go. This was a
lot of stupid, and this wasa lot of stupid. It was a
lot, I mean, even fromthe most basic. You know, after

(33:25):
Madison and Alicia came back together andthey figure out that hey, Tracy is
not your kid, are they notgoing to have a discussion on what to
do with her? Well, they'retaking her with apparently. Yeah, but
you just assume that what am Iadopting a kid? Now? No?
No, not even a sentence,no sentence of anything. I guess,

(33:51):
well, I mean, and Alicia'slike, well, no, you know,
your mom's name was whatever. Youknow, I was there, but
you know, whatever, whatever,whatever, whatever, and oh God,
and I gotta tell you, youknow, all things being equal, when
you go to that tent, there'sa lot of stuff. I mean,

(34:13):
she said, okay, that wasa big tent. That was a multiperson
tent to put up, okay,and she she couldn't have put that up
right. So somehow she managed toput that whole tent up and the cot
and there is a lot of stuffin that tent. I don't know if
you realize it or not, butthere was a lot of stuff in that
tent. I did realize it wentout. Yeah, it looked like That's

(34:35):
what I was wondering. Did shejust find that tent and someone had already
set it up for something? Becauselike just looking at this one scene with
her with the cat, you know, there are like tubs of things in
a table behind her, and there'stubs on the floor and there's things.
I'm like, so, did shejust come across the tent and it was
being used for something else? Idon't know. I do not know,

(34:59):
but I know that she could nothave done that all by herself. No,
she couldn't have. You know.I mean kids can be resourceful,
don't get me wrong, but notthat. No, I mean there are
limits. And because here's the thing, on a multiperson tent, I don't
care how big of an adult youare. If you don't have someone helping

(35:21):
you, you ain't getting the tentup. Mm hmm. Okay. That's
why I think I'm just gonna chooseto believe that she found it, because
that's just one step too far.I can't believe she did that. Yeah,
you know, then we when wego back to the mainland and they've
got that, they find that vehicle, and that's they fully loaded down with.

(35:42):
I don't know. And what aboutwhat about the container ship, the
gigantic container ship with the hundreds andhundreds of containers with everything that's needed to
rebuild civilization. It's still just sittingthere on the on the island. M

(36:05):
I guess it is still sitting there. I guess. Yeah. I don't
even think it matters. They don'tcare. It doesn't matter, like what
what supplies? What stuff? Whocares? You know? And then Victor
in the truck, well, whereare we going? And they just randomly
pick a point on the map.Why why didn't they go back to the
resort or why? And they don'tas far as I can tell, they

(36:28):
didn't even they had people in thosetrucks, but no supplies. Well,
it sound like they weren't trying toleave immediately because his husband said, well,
if Tracy wants to be found,we'll find her, right, Yeah,
we'll do a couple more sweeps beforewe leave the area. Basically,
yeah, but why even at thispoint, why even leave the area?

(36:51):
They could go back to the resort. They could. I mean, yes,
there was a fire, but itwas all outside of the building,
not inside because the truck never gotinside. Mm hmm. All they have
to do is just go clean upthe mess. Agree that was, and
that was a pretty you know,cool place to live. And with all

(37:13):
those supplies on that container ship,they don't build it. That's a good
question, you know, all thesequestions, But I guess when it comes
down to it, it doesn't evenmatter, Like so many things that they've
done in season eight, season seven, season six, Yeah, like a

(37:35):
lot of this stuff doesn't even evenmatter at all, Like the motivations don't
matter, nothing matters in this show, Like this is so the ending didn't
matter yeah, you know, theytry to make it all heartfelt. Well,
I take back some of the terriblethings I said to you twenty minutes
ago. You know, I guessmaybe you aren't the reason why my entire

(37:59):
life is crap. You know,the only scene, don't you know,
the scene where Madison and Alicia cametogether. I felt that was real a
little bit. I can believe thatscene, but all the other was just
filler. Yeah. Did you happento watch the you know, behind the

(38:21):
scenes things after the episode? Idid, mm hmm, okay, yeah.
I couldn't even pay attention to that. Well. I mean it was
a lot of you know, showingthem saying thank you yeah to the viewers
and the fans. I'm like,hmm, we fans, Yeah, well
I was they could. I'm not. I'm not feeling a whole lot of

(38:42):
warm and fuzzy for you all.And and the thing of it is,
I'm not even mad at the actors. I'm not. No, it's not
their fault. It's not their fault. It is not their fault. But
whoever wrote that, I'm sorry.It's cast on, it's right, it's
producing, it's everyone had their handin this garbage. Yeah, yeah,

(39:07):
and it's the showrunner's fault. They'rethe ones that need to take the responsibility
for this. I'm going to bereal truthful. Where they honestly should have
ended this show is everyone rolling downthe river and Alicia walking off into the
sunset. That's where they should haveended the show because everything that's happened since

(39:30):
then, though, Yeah, wecan draw our own conclusions about everyone.
Yeah, you know, we didn'tnothing since they I mean honestly, since
the bomb went off, nothing reallymattered. But at least with them going
down the river and Alicia walking offinto the sunset, it would have been

(39:54):
a more satisfying conclusion than this one. Yeah, you know, there was
still a possibility for Victor to redeemhimself as he you know, was left
behind in the in the little dinghyyou know, everyone else went off,
you know, I mean, therewas hope there he could have you know,

(40:15):
we might be able to still findPadre, and we didn't. You
know, we wouldn't have had toworry about what the hell Padre was or
you know, felling people full ofyou know, cancer creatment to cure a
zombie bite and all of that,all that stupid stuff. We could have
just avoided all of it. Yeah, I agree. I don't know.

(40:38):
I just feel like this whole backhalf this season was just the absolute worst.
And then I think even you know, going back a couple episodes to
bring back Charlie's character, to haveher go out like that, Oh my
goodness, like such a waste.It was all a waste, All of
it was. I mean, theywaste people, that wasted characters, They

(41:00):
wasted everything. I mean, here'sthe truth, me, you and Katrina,
we all could have sat down togetherand we could have written a really
good final chapter for this show.I got faith in us, guys,
and it would have gone nothing likeany of this. Honestly, how did
those scripts even make it past?Like inspection, I'd have been like,

(41:24):
take this back to the drawing board. It's trash. Yeah, why are
these people doing this? That doesn'tmake any sense? Why would you do
this? You know? I mean, they could have brought back Charlie,
they could have brought back some ofthese characters. I wouldn't have brought back
Troy, but they could have,you know, to to wrap things up,
so to speak. But it didn'thave to be like this. Yeah,

(41:47):
and especially because they brought back.Okay, so technically, because they
brought back Strike's brother, right,wasn't that her name? Yeah, Strike's
brother, I can't remember what hisname is. But because they brought him
back, he could have been thevillain. Yeah, they could have continued
trying to pull care away from himand his people, and that would have

(42:12):
been more interesting than bringing Troy backin the mix on this stupid I mean,
the motivation is so idiotic to me. Yeah, Like that would have
been more interesting than hearing him complainabout his wife that got had too many
positive feelings, so she died becauseshe was trying to help. Well,

(42:36):
and here's the thing, his wifewas probably really grateful to have that extra
time and probably assumed that any timeshe had was a gift, because that
really is what it was, becauseshe should have died, but Alicia came
and saved her and gave her,gave her and Troy many extra years together.

(43:00):
And the fact that he he wasmad at Alicia for saving her,
And if Alicia didn't have the attitudeof everyone deserves a second chance, she
never would have responded to his sos. Yeah, I do wonder though,
when did his wife die? Likeagain, We're kind of murky on the

(43:21):
timeline because I feel like Tracy wasreally young because she can't really remember anything,
you know, I'm gonna go withprobably under four. But so Troy's
wife was pregnant with her when shegot bit. Alicia was there when she
was born, stayed with them untilshe had recovered. So call it probably

(43:45):
six months, all right, mmhmm? So or three? I mean,
I guess we could be, youknow, say three, but three
to six months and then she tookoff. But the way that Troy's talking
about it, it had been severalyears. So I would probably say probably

(44:06):
she was three to four because mostpeople under you can't really retain anything younger
than four or three. So ifshe has a few memories, she might
have been four or five. Yeah, and three is even pushing it.
I feel like some people remember somethings, but you don't remember the amount

(44:29):
of details that you would at likefive or six. Right, So the
fact that she remembers her mom tellsme she would have had to be minimum
three, more likely four, Andif she has any concrete memories, it
would have been five or six.Yeah, Because Troy just told her whatever

(44:52):
he wanted to tell her. Tomake her follow and just follow instruction and
sit there and shut up. Yeah, it was just crazy to me because
again, like last week, Isaid, why if this is Troy's daughter,
this is your flesh and blood,why on this earth would you decide
to go have this fight then toyou know, just trade your daughter and

(45:15):
be done with it. Yeah.I can't understand the logic again, like
the logic is gone there exactly.And like I said, I mean,
so this kid is what when theysay seven eight? So yeah, let's
go with her mom probably died atfour mm, long enough that she long
long enough ago that you know,she's blurry, but still enough there,

(45:37):
long enough to be brainwashed Yeah,by her father, right, you know,
but again that's still four you know, three or four years that he
had with his wife that he neverwould have had, never, and he's
all but hurt about it. He'sblaming Alicia and in turn blaming Madison,

(45:58):
which was interesting because you know inscene where Madison ties her to the little
cot in the m rap and ofcourse Victor and the Alicia triplets. She's
been looking at those videos and they'relike and what just this scene was kind
of stupid to but They're like,you know, if you've watched any of
those videos, you know that Mattison, you know he gives people second chances.

(46:23):
You know, she's like, it'sgonna kill my dad. Uh.
They're like, no, she givespeople second chances. But what is this.
But here's the thing. Troy wasgiven a second chance by Alicia.
Yeah, it's probably on his fourthchance, to be honest. So,
I mean, so she was givena second chance I guess shortly before the

(46:45):
whole damn situation or whatever from whatI gathered. Well, then Alicia gave
him another chance when she came andsaved his wife. And then he was
given yet another chance, you knowearlier on where they said we can just
end this now, and he saidno, he has been given multiple chances

(47:07):
to do the right thing, andhe's blatantly chosen not to and and because
of some weird blind rage. AndI gotta tell you, if I was
in an apocalypse then someone saved someoneI loved and gave me four extra years
with them, I'd be grateful.Mm hmm. It was her choice to

(47:31):
help people. Just these triplet girls, you know, they were inspired by
her. Yeah, and so theywanted to do good things also, right,
and that doesn't make it her faults. It happens, you know,
because and again how she died.Was it terrible? Yeah, it really

(47:52):
was. Then again, he couldhave gone with his wife, you know,
while she went off on her missionsto mercy. But but the thing
of it is is in this lifeyou are half a step from death every
day. You know, it's justthe way it is between people and walkers,

(48:14):
and you know, illnesses and infectionand accidents. You know, it's
not a safe world. And thefact that he got so many more extra
years that he never would have hadwith her, and he is this salty.
I mean, it doesn't make anysense. No, it doesn't.

(48:36):
It really doesn't, you know,what gives him the right to go through
and destroy settlement after settlement after settlementbecause his wife decided to do good things
and then she died and he's madabout it. And then when when he
what's her face kills him finally shestabs him and everyone's like, oh my

(48:58):
god, thatdic It tells him,Frid you did that, friend of his
child? Oh my god. I'mlike, oh huh God. Ever,
like I said, I would havekilled him way before that because even because
here's the thing, even after quoteunquote saving him, you know, so

(49:19):
that he could call his people offand stop everything, and he told his
people to stand down, they stilldidn't. No, So saving him meant
really nothing. Facts, I mean, what else can you say? Saving
him meant nothing? It meant absolutelynothing. She would have been just as

(49:42):
better. Honestly, she would havebeen better off killing him there at the
truck mm hmmm, because many ofthe other things had happened after that wouldn't
have happened because she was dragging hisbutt around, right, And I don't
know I this whole thing. AllI can say is I'm happy it's over.

(50:04):
You know what, I can agreewith you. I think that the
last couple seasons have been really painful, you know, And I just I
don't know. I guess I wasjust really hoping for a satisfactory ending.
And I guess technically I got thatright. I was satisfied with what they

(50:30):
the choices they made for them tolike, for example, walk away,
for example, for Alicia to comeback. I was satisfied with those choices
in the end, But the rideto get there was dreadful, dread absolutely
dreadful. Well and honestly, theywere just they were creating pretend drama to

(50:54):
stretch this whole thing out. Imean, the whole flip flopping back and
forth, the whole changing of alliances, the whole you know, as they
stand in the you know, ina circle with their arms cross pointing at
each other, going you did this, dare I say, it's just bad
writing, just bad storytelling. Andand here's the thing, So, like

(51:16):
when once his name was talking aboutyou know, don't go with her,
every you know her, you know, Victor and Madison, everything they touched,
you know, just turns terrible andbad things happen. I'm like,
you know, there's kind of somethingto that. I'm not gonna lie.
But at the same time, hemade a lot of bad choices. They've

(51:38):
all made terrible choices, and hehad done terrible things. Oh yeah,
So you know, the nobody herehas any moral high ground. There is
not a single person standing on thatset that has you know, one inch
higher on that moral high ground thananybody else. No, And I think

(52:01):
that actually is what makes this particularset of characters like somewhat difficult to deal
with, because like they're all they'reall really gray, like very gray,
like almost bad, you know whatI mean, They're like all yeah,

(52:22):
so and in a lot of ways, Again, if we had not been
following this group, they would absolutelybe the bad guys. I feel like
even with following them, they seemlike bad guys, like a little bit
like they're so gray, Like it'shard for me to root for someone,
even one part of the group,or even one or two people in the

(52:45):
group when everyone's kind of like Danielflipping back and forth, you know,
doing a little bit of that,Like everybody is doing this, and it's
like, who can you root forin this group? Not even one?

(53:06):
No, I mean maybe the Germans. We probably, you know, if
we'd spend more time with them,maybe them those were like the only good
people. You know, they wereout there, they were making their waffles
and their omelets and you know,have this little golden sunshiny place and and
you know that's the okay. SoI just thought of something that to me,

(53:29):
makes a huge difference between like thisshow and The Walking Dead. So
the Walking Dead passed. They alsodid morally gray things, right. They
did bad things for good reasons,right, what they thought was the right
thing. And that's clear I'm doingsomething bad that sucks, but this is
the reason and it's the right way. This group, they're so confused about

(53:52):
what they're like. At first,it was all about, we want to
do this for Alicia, we wantto have the dream that a Lisha had
and that fell by the wayside,and then it's second chance. Like they
have no north Star. No,that's what it is. So like everything
they're doing is just so scattered allover the place. You can't feel good

(54:15):
about anything they're doing because there's there'sno core like motivation that everyone is abiding
by in this group. They don'thave a Herschel senior, yeah something,
you know someone who the closest theyhad was Morgan on it. Well,
John John Dory was probably the closestthey had to their you know, they're

(54:40):
north Star. You know, hewas an upright guy and uh but other
than that, they really have neverhad an upright guy other than him.
They all had different agendas. Theyall didn't sing, you know, they
weren't all playing by the same music. Yeah, so it was like,

(55:01):
I mean, a bunch of charactersdoing a bunch of things that no one
cares about. Yeah, I mean, like take June for example, She's
a perfect example. You know,June has done shady stuff mm hmm.
And because of all the shady stuffshe's done, you can never trust her

(55:22):
motivations. And yet she'll take themoral high ground when someone doesn't meet her
expectations. Are you kidding me?So look, let me talk about it
what you did last week, right, let's not talk about how you were
turning people so you could practice soyou can practice medicine and try experiments on
them. Let's not forget that youdid that. But yeah, she's like,

(55:45):
how dare you steal this child?Oh? My gosh, Oh I
cannot, how do you I?I you know, they all did you
know? They all did terrible things, you know, in the service of
Padre, and none of them hadto. None of them had to.
Oh well they were keeping our youknow, because they had our children.

(56:05):
Well I'm sorry, but most ofyou just willingly handed your children over.
So guess what, Oh that mighthave been more interesting just to see the
actual appearance coming and like fighting thefight to get their children back. Yeah,
you know it. Like I said, the whole thing was just none

(56:27):
of these characters were worth rooting for. And that's I think that's in the
end why everything was And again becauseeveryone on this show is so flip floppy,
you know, going over back overthe Walking Dead when we when we
had Morgan and Carol and the twoof them kept flip flopping. You know,

(56:49):
we are zen, we are murderers, you know, and they were
always opposite of each other, butat least but with the two of them,
at least it was within their charactersto kind of have these psychotic breaks,
and the rest of the characters thatwere pretty consistent. But on this
show, all of them, youknow, Victor and June and Dwight and

(57:15):
Sherry and all of them, theyjust they have no consistent baseline behavior.
There's wishy washy is you know,a baseline is that there is none.
You flip a coin, They're goingto be acting one way one week and
another way the next week, andso there's no rhyme or reason for it,

(57:38):
right, And there was just youknow, like I said, I
think John Dory was probably the mostconsistent character they ever had, and they
killed him off and there really wasn'tany other characters that we could depend on,
you know, to behave in acertain way. So I don't know,

(58:00):
I'm just at this point, I'mjust glad it's over. I'm looking
forward to, you know, theones who lived, and I've got my
fingers crossed. Please God, police, So let's put fear behind us.
This is the last time we shallspeak of it. Unless some and less
buy some insane reason, some ofthese characters show up in other shows,
then we'll probably somehow reference back,but maybe not. You know, we

(58:22):
got Dwight, Sherry, and Morganall heading towards the Alexandria area, right,
so you know we got that right, so maybe maybe so we did
get a little sneak peek kind ofthing. Did you see that? If
it just came out the last fewdays. No, I've been working too

(58:44):
much. Oh okay, because Iguess technically they showed it during the live
thing, but you know, sinceI watched, you know, on AMC
plus, I had to go ontoYouTube and it was there. Yeah,
I watched. It was interesting.We got a lot of different scenes,
like a lot a variety of scenes. It's looking really interesting. A couple

(59:05):
of the actors we're kind of talkingabout like the intention of the show,
and I feel like some of thescenes we saw it's gonna look a little
different. It might look a littlemore cinematic. I think, oh n,
I think we might be leveling upa little bit. That'd be a
nice little change of pace. Visually. We're gonna level up. I hope

(59:28):
that's what it looks like from firstglance. Right, Okay, I'm excited.
And the official release date is Februarytwenty fifth. All right, so
we will return here on February twentyfifty six. Yes, yeah, so
we're gonna have a nice long threemonth hiatus from all things zombie and we'll

(59:52):
be back then to talk about theones that lived? About that, and
I say the why can't I saythe ones who live? I feel like
I want to keep saying the onesthat lived? And that's not right.
What is it gonna take me tomemorize this correctly? I don't know.
I can never remember World Beyond.I just now I'm really actually shocked.

(01:00:16):
I don't know. Some sometimes titlesjust don't because our brains are going,
yeah, that doesn't make any sense. I kind of don't like the name,
to be honest, I don't likethat. I don't love the name.
I know why they named it thatit makes sense to me. I
get it, but I don't.I'm not in love with it. Yeah,
I mean, I guess, youknow, they could keep going,

(01:00:37):
keep calling it the Rick and maShone Show. But then again, we
had a Daryl Dixon, We didDarryl Dixon, so I mean, they
could have had you know, youknow, the Walking Dead, you know,
Rick Grimes or something something. Idon't know. I don't know.
We're stuck with what we're stuck with. And uh and I'm sure he's saying

(01:01:00):
it right by next year. Andif our biggest complaint is we don't like
the title of it, then I'mgonna be happy, I know. And
you know it's gonna I'll get usedto it, you know, and it'll
be fine. As long as theshow is good. Who cares about the
name technically, as long as thecontent is good. Well, and I'm
gonna say, because the actors thatplay Rick and Maschone, they both have

(01:01:23):
executive director or executive producer credits onthe show. Mm hmm, I would
assume that since they are the starsof the show and they have actual input
on how this show goes, they'renot gonna they're both good actors, they're
not gonna want to produce a crapshow. I'm with you, I don't.

(01:01:46):
I think we're in for a bettercaliber of show and knock on wood,
I don't want to jinx anything,but just from what I've seen already,
I'm feeling pretty positive about it.Yeah, I'm gonna look up that
trailer while we get done here tonight. Yeah, so I'm curious. I
had some screenshots for it, butI'm like, you didn't see it,

(01:02:07):
so there's no point you need towatch it. Well, it's fine.
I mean other people could have seenit, you know. Yeah, it's
okay. I mean I can't gothrough all the scenes anyway, So it's
just a bunch of things that lookinteresting to me. I think we're gonna
make some assumptions, Like I thinkthere was a shot of where I believe
that Rick is staying the CRM.It looks like a big pound pound,

(01:02:30):
So we're gonna have some big sets, I think. And I don't know.
It just looks really visually appealing tome right now. So hopefully what
I'm seeing is what we're actually gonnaget and they're not doing a bait and
switch. Fingers crossed. I know, let's cross all the fingers yeah,
I think that's it for today.What do you think, Lisa, I

(01:02:51):
think we're done all right. Soit has been a fun time. It's
been a fun season talking shit aboutfear. Yeah. I hope you enjoyed
this season because I mean, honestly, sometimes that's just how, just how
the cookie crumbles. You know,you're not gonna like everything, all right.

(01:03:12):
And I mean I was really hopedsince they knew that this was gonna
be the last season, I wasreally hoping they would put some effort into
it. They was. Honestly,it felt like they phoned it in.
They did a little bit, Ithink, so, you know, but
it's over, it's done with.We never have to watch it again and
we can move on to better thingsand we will. So thank you for
listening to this entire episode. Don'tforget to like and subscribe wherever you are

(01:03:36):
listening, because we'll be back againnext year in February, and you want
to be sure to get that notificationso you don't miss a single episode.
Also, if you enjoyed the discussion, please leave a five star rating wherever
you are listening. That would helpus out a lot. And until next
time, Happy holidays, Happy Newyear, take care of yourself. Hi

(01:03:57):
guys, Bye bye do

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