The Walking Dead: Dead City S2 E3 | TWDU - The Recap! The Walking Dead Universe

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey everyone, Welcome back to the recap of the Walking
Dead universe. We are here live every week during the
show season to discuss the latest episode. We are covering
TWD Dead City Season two, episode three, Why did the
Mainlanders Cross the River? I'm your host Tamara, and I
am glad you've joined us today. Special thank you to

(00:26):
everyone joining us live and taking time out of your
evening to be here. Before we start, please follow us
on your favorite social media platforms. The links to find
both me and Lisa are in the show notes, and
if you like what you hear, hit the subscribe button.
You won't want to miss a single episode. Joining me
today is show co host Lisa. Welcome, Lisa, Hey.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Tamra, Hey everyone. My name is Lisa Orvin. I am
an author. I am also the founder of Indies Unity
Publishing House, and I love all things pop culture.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Alrighty, So before we get going, we would love your
participation in this conversation. So if you are listening live
on YouTube, hit us up in the comment section. If
you are catching on a replay, you can still comment
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voicemail message using the speak pipelink in the show notes.
If you are new to the podcast, we are laid
back in our view style.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Rate Lisa absolutely, tamor.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
This is a conversation on a dissertation, exactly, no scene
by scene breakdowns.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Here.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
We jump around huge spoiler alert for everything every show
in the world through yesterday's episode, and if you're good
with that, this is the place for you, and we
should just jump to it because this is interesting episode.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Herschel's a sleeper agent.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Look, girl, I said they were right. They were right,
and look, okay, so if someone did comment on what
platform was that YouTube? I don't know. I gotta go
back and find the comment, and they told us that
Herschel is a sleeper and Herschel did set the fire.
That's the smoke signal. I was like, oh my goodness,

(02:00):
you know, and.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
We spent last episode defending him.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
I know we did. Actually, I'm gonna see if I
can find the comment. I meant to save it because
I'll read it right quick if I can find it
quick enough. But yeah, when she wrote that, I said,
oh goodness, gracious, okay, well all right, I'll take your
word for it. It's looking like that's true because he
seems like he's doing stuff for Damas, So yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
It does. I mean, it's it's kind of strange because
I mean, if you think from one point of view,
he seems to have gotten closer with Maggie and he
was very upset with her for leaving and going with them.
Then again, I suppose if he's you know, being a

(02:50):
good little sleeper agent, this is what he would do.
And uh, and it's I have to wonder did he
lose the toe before or after she started being nice
to him.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
You know what. I wonder if that was like a
part of the plan. She said, Hey, you have to
do this one more thing, and that includes losing a toe.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, except every time we saw him last season, you know,
he was tied up in a chair. He was, you know,
in some kind of predicament. We never saw him in
that room. We never saw any of this other stuff
going on. So you know, I mean, you can forgive
us for assuming that he had just been treated badly

(03:36):
throughout most of it.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, right, Okay, I found the comment. Actually it was
left on spreaker. Colette says there was a blue cloth
used to start the fire, and he used the other
part of the blue cloth later to tend to someone's wounds.
I have to watch it again to see. But apparently
Maggie may have figured it out, so I have to
watch again. She has a little shrug emoji. Hmmm.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Interesting, mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Thanks Colette. I'm not gonna go back and look. But
you're probably right because other people were saying it, you know.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, well you can you know, like you said, the
Damas is saying to him, we just you know, you're
gonna have to do some things.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
But but we're gonna do this, you know, we're gonna
and and Maggie did ask him, and I can't remember.
I think it was episode one when she was holding
up the pictures and saying, you know what, what hold
does this woman have on you? What hol does the
city have on you?

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah? Yeah, And finally Maggie's like, look, just tell me,
you know what is it? I need to know what's
going on. H She let him. She let it go
for a long time, you know, because they are having problems.
But now it's like, no, no, no, I gotta figure
this out. And hopefully he tells her to truth.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh sadly though, if he's if Herschel's working for the
for Doma. Then he now knows all about the Central
Park people who have been trying to stay hidden.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
I know, and he could totally just wrap them out.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
That's so unfortunate.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
The odd group, But I can't really. I mean, they seemed,
of all the people we have seen on this journey,
probably the most peaceful.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Book. They seemed the most normal. Until the girl died.
I'm like, whoa, what are they doing? What are they singing?
What aren't you know? I'm trying to just be like, well,
you know, they have their traditions, and then when she
starts pounding on the girl's chest, I'm like, oh my gosh,
what in the world. And so, yeah, that whole little

(05:53):
thing was very strange. They seemed okay until then.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well we had we had seen other walkers that had
those hole you know, those holes in their chest.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, that's previous people from their group that died.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
And I also thought it was kind of interesting that
the walkers don't bother them. Yeah, it's weird because that
gate is open.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, and when the heart was an offering, they ate
it and left.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
It was so weird, right, I've never seen walkers behave
quite that way, because I mean, they could easily surround
that building that they're in, and yet you don't. The
walkers don't really seem to go much past that gate, right.

(06:46):
And I don't know if it's because it's so they're
so quiet, because they really don't make a lot of noise,
but it was just they have this almost symbiotic relationship,
and it's it's not like you know, the whisperers where
they walked among them or anything. They're not trying to

(07:07):
you know, heard them or anything. I mean, they tend
to just kind of leave them alone.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, they're not trying to really deal with them at all.
They just hide them, right.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
So I'm wondering what their their magic is to keep
them away from their doors.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
You think maybe they have something in the walls or
around the property or something that.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
No because remember when Maggie in that group they came
out of the weeds onto and there was that there
was that metal gate. Yeah, it was ulti it was open,
and the two people stepped out of the building and
just stood there and Maggie and her people followed them inside,
but the walkers did not.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, that was strange. Maybe we'll see them again. I'm
not sure if we will, but maybe we will. Maybe
they will play a role in helping take down the
Doma and her people. Maybe not. I don't know. It's
unclear if we'll see them again this season.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I mean, the Doma might fall, but I'm pretty sure
Megan is gonna stick around in the city. And who
knows at this point who's I have no idea whose
side herschel.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Would be on at this point, not his mother's.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
You know. And because he has he has ties to
Maggie and to Meagan, he actually has a decent I
don't I don't want to call it a relationship of repertoire,
you know, rapport. I guess with Meagan.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Okay, so I'm starting to question that. Okay, let me
tell you. When he shot at him, I said, wait
a minute, does he hate him? He hates his guts now?
And then I was thinking, well, it's definitely not because
of his father. If anything, he hates him just because
his mother seems so all consumed about him.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Right, but so as close as they were, I'm pretty
sure he would have hit him with that gun or.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Think so you think it was a warning shot like
get out of here kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
I think so, yeah, because I mean they were awful close.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
And they were something I'll tell you, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Thinking him out and teaching him how to hunt and
everything else.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
So well, think she's different now though he's different.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, I don't know. I think he would, you know,
I honestly, at that distance, I guess he could have missed,
but it would be really hard.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, it would be. I don't know. He looks so
angry though, Like I guess in that moment he we
was surprised to see him, even though he knew he
was on the island. You know, he's in Manhattan, but
he didn't expect to see him. But I don't know.
And then the way Maggie reacted I was kind of

(10:14):
torn with that reaction too. When herschel came back and
disclosed would happen and said, you know someone helped and
it was Megan. You know, she instantly is like, you
saw him, what did he say? Did he say anything?
I'm like, what is happening?

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Like? Because I had really hoped that after they had
left that because Maggie seems to have tried too late
to rest her feelings for a Megan m h. But
apparently it is a very shallow grave.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
It didn't take much to resurrect it, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
No, because I mean, there was instant hostility, and I
could see why herschel would be upset because I mean,
and I know the Dama said it to manipulate him,
know this, But she wasn't wrong either that Maggie had
been so consumed with Meagan for so long it didn't

(11:07):
leave a lot of room for anything else.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
No, she was definitely preoccupied, for sure, and apparently she
still can be preoccupied pretty easily.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
You know.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
He's like, oh, yeah, I'm alive too. Never mind Meg
any right, Hello, but that just enraged him more, which
probably is going to drive him to keep doing whatever
he's doing.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
M h.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
I did not expect that they got me. I didn't
expect it. I don't know. I still find him slightly annoying,
to be honest. I'm like, something is wrong with this kid.
He's annoying. He's bratty, and being who his mom is,
I expected him to, you know, be more aware of

(11:55):
his surroundings, Like how did he get lost? Like, I'm like,
how this fool get lost? He's sitting here trying to draw.
I'm like, what is going on? It just seemed like,
I don't know herschel is just on some other stuff
that I don't like.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
I mean, the drawing, I think was to help trying
to orientate himself on where he was, because that's kind
of how he deciphers the world.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, okay, maybe that, And.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Because when he sat down with that paper and pencil,
he did say, okay, where am I, you know, and
and he was looking at you know, kind of looking
around and stuff. And I think, like I said, I
think he's trying to kind of map out where they
are or where he is and to what he knows,

(12:46):
because I mean, it's not like he got a real
good view of the city. He did to an extent,
but only from one vantage point, right so, And I
don't even know if Central Park was part of that view.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, honestly, you can't even
really see inside Central Park like that, I don't think,
right so, ex But I don't know if that would
have helped him. Maybe if he could have seen the skyline,
he would have known which direction to go, but he's
that wouldn't have helped him find his mother. And the
rest of the people in the park, So I'm not

(13:22):
really sure how that would have helped him exactly.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, and and I being separated from the rest of
the group. He obviously still has some loyalty to Maggie
of some kind because he didn't ask to how to
get out of there, because at that point he could
have slipped away, m h and you know, gone to

(13:46):
find the dama. Yeah, but instead, you know, he was
asking for you know, have you seen the people I'm with?
Have you seen my mom? Have you you know? And
I don't know I'm he until it happens. I just
don't know what to make of him.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, it's really weird, and I hope that the writers
are able to kind of explain it to us in
a way, like show us what happened behind the scenes.
So we kind of got a little bit of how
he got here, right, We're seeing the flashbacks. We could
see the manipulation, we could see her talking to him,
leave the door open, you know, all these things to

(14:26):
kind of get him to trust her and confide in her,
and all these other things. So we kind of got
a little bit, But I want more. I want to
see the decision that he made to help her or
to do whatever, whatever the plan was. I kind of
want to see how the plan came together.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, and I mean did did the dom I mean
I guess the Dama voluntarily let him go? Yeah, you know,
because it sounds like, you know, we you know, we
have a plan mm hm, and you're going to have
to do some things. So I mean again, I kind
of want to know what this is before or after
she cut off his toe.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
She's gonna say, Srriot, this was before because if she
if she cut off his toe first, there's no way
he would have been open to listening to anything she
had to say because he would have been too outraged
about his toe being cut off.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Well, but she got that toe fairly early on in
season one. Yeah, so I mean it would almost have
to I almost want to say after. But and again,
all we ever saw in season one was him being
held against his will and confinement.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
So you know, I don't know, I'm not sure what
to make of it. M hmm. Maybe that's why I
said I want a little bit more clarity on that,
just a little.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
So do I And we do know that he was
there for quite a while, probably at least a month,
if not longer, because you know, I think time time
on The Walking Dead is fluid.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, definitely is.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
But there had to have been enough time for Herschel
to get taken and then Maggie to you know, find
out what they wanted Megan, and then for her to
go find Megan and then drag him back there, you know,
and then go wandering through the city. So I mean,

(16:40):
it's you know that that that didn't happen overnight.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
No, it didn't. And plus, honestly he had that was
the view he was dealing with. He's just looking out
and drawing, and unless he's some kind of super fast
draw you know, able to draw really fast, his drawing
was pretty detailed. I feel like that took weeks and
weeks to do. Probably maybe I wish I had a

(17:08):
screenshot of that map, because.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
He did that one sketch for the Historian and taken
about a couple of minutes, And while this one is
more detailed, I don't. I think Herschel's a kind of
kind of artist. It probably does doesn't take very long.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Well, I don't know. I guess we'll see maybe Well,
and I thought maybe we would get the scene where
he got his toe cut off and we didn't get
it this time, so maybe they're saving it for later. Yeah, hmmm,
I think that is so creepy though. He's like in
that room, just staring out into Manhattan that it looks

(17:49):
tore down and he's trying to imagine what it could
look like.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, not what it was, but what they could make it.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, you know, because she was sure to point out
she hates the past clearly.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
She she has almost a love hate relationship with it
because she has I mean, she's collected the art and
she has the music and the refinements of the past,
while at the same time very much hating it.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah. Very strange. Yeah, She's a strange person. And so
I'm starting to wonder, though, is she like an absolute villain, Like,
is she a villain villain? Or is she just a misguided,
few screws loose villain, you know what I'm saying, Like,
you know, a mastermind?

Speaker 2 (18:42):
She kind of I mean, in a lot of ways,
she kind of reminds me of Alpha. I mean, Alpha
wasn't always batshit all the time. And obviously she she
had enough of charisma, I guess to hold on to
her people and convince them to live this way, right,
And I think the Dama's very similar, if different in

(19:08):
her approach, but very manipulative, very controlling, has very definite
views of things.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, definitely. I don't know, we'll have to see. I
am wondering if she's gonna be off to this season though.
Will we end the season with her demise in some
kind of way, or are they gonna drag this on.
I'm curious about that as well.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
I if I were to venture to guess, I'm going
to say that Megan is you know, he's obviously working
to undermine her and put a wedge between her and
the croat.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah. So, which, by the way, he is doing very
very effectively. And it's like he had to go back
to his old personality. That was not a show. That's
a skill. Yeah. Well yeah, the.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Crow was like, I know why you didn't didn't do that.
You draw the line of kids, but don't worry what
will kill the kids for you. You don't have to
do that. That's very kind of.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
You know, I well, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yes, what a kindness, What a kindness that was.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
And actually, so when you know, he talked about going
into the park and he told that other guy to
go with him. I said, oh, that guy's not coming back.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Oh yeah, I knew this guy was not coming back.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, I said, sir, you just signed your death. Weren't
You're gonna die because he will kill you. I thought
he would kill him, or he would get him killed.
And that's exactly what happened.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Although it was kind of impressive that he managed to
claw his way out of the walkers enough to cause issues.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
So look, that's another kind of inconsistency with this shows.
Have you noticed some people turn really quickly?

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (21:17):
And some people don't? Yep, Like why is that? Why
does this guy get to make his way all the
way out of the little wooded area, all the way
to herschel and like have enough time to have enough
brain power left in his head to knock the girl
down and jabber in the leg. He's doing all this?
Isn't he supposed to be like fading into nothingness? I

(21:39):
don't know.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Well, we've seen people last.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
A very long time, very you know, you know, up
to a week. Because wasn't that Christina who lived a
very long made it a very long time after she
was been and.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
So did Carl.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
The people turn quick like that.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, you know, Carl made it almost a week and
they've had other characters that you know, have and I don't.
But again, I mean, it's an infection.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
So if it fits the plot, yeah, and if.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
It fits the plot, but you know, it's it's like
probably along the same lines of like measles or any
other kind of contagious disease. You know, some people hits
them really hard and very fast, and sometimes it takes.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Longer m M.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
You know, and they're billing this lasts longer, and others
get over it really quickly. I think it's just every
person is slightly different and everyone carries the virus and
you know, not not all metabolisms are the same.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, And that's a nice way to break that down. M.
Although I'm not even sure they even thought of it
like that.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
They just probably not. And I mean it was a
big too, so you know, the bigger they are, the
harder they're bitten.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
I don't know, I don't know, the slower they turn
I guess. Yeah, hmmm.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Although that was a really good javelin float throw on
on Megan's part, I will say.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
That, yeah, it definitely was. He saved the kid as
he yeah, he's like, not the kids. That's interesting line
to drop. And I'm glad he has one. He needs
one at least that well.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
And we've seen that back since Carl, and that was
always one of his things. You know, he he could
be very cruel to adults, but you know, we've never
really seen him be evil to children. He was good
to Carl, he was good to Judith, he was good
to the other kids that were in his you know,

(23:53):
in his sphere there.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
So yeah, he's never locked any of them away or
did anything crazy like that. He you know, although the
way he talks to them is friendly, but I don't know,
it's manipulative as well.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
It is. So, I mean, I'm not saying he was
always a good person.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
You're like, I didn't say that now.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
I mean, and he did try to do to Carl
what the Dama is doing to Herschel, you know, try
to sway Carl over to his view of things and
turn him against Rick and you know, bring him over
to the dark side because they had cookies, right and uh,
you know, so you can you can see there's that

(24:38):
parallel between him and Carl and Domon and Herschel.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, definitely, I could see the parallel. So what did
you think about the time spent in the park while
they you know, before they found what was it a
little cafe or something those people were hiding out in,
Like the inner actions between them as they were trying
to figure out what to do. I thought it was
kind of comical, like they could they were just had

(25:06):
different opinions on what to do. The colonel old lady,
I can't remember what her station is. She's like, we
still need to do what we're here to do.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, And apparently her her idea was to take them
over by fource.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Oh let's look wait, let's go back to Carl real quick.
So Karna says he literally was going to bash Carl's
head in before Shiva attacked him. You know that is true?
Do you remember that?

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Vaguely?

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, that is true. So he was going to actually
hurt a child. He was going to m mmm, I
don't know. Very inconsistent. Inconsistent, megan, Okay. Anyway, So they
have different goals here. They're like, we need to find safety,
we need to rest, we need to get out of here.

(25:58):
And Lady's like, hey, we still need to do what
we came here for.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, well, and like I said, she was going to
use their feutre, their mourning funeral as a way to
take over by force community. I'm like, do you really
think you're just going to take over these people and
make them do what you want?

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Really?

Speaker 2 (26:25):
You know, well, we have medicine, we have electricity, we
have all these things. And I don't know she really
looked around, but these were not an unhappy people. They
were quiet, but they were they weren't unhappy.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
I mean there weren't well.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Until one one girl died, don't get me wrong on
that one. And they also have very they're very specific
funeral rights obviously, and that's really not a terrible thing
because in this this whole decimated world, you know, the
deaths of people are something that almost no one handles well.

(27:08):
And you know, there there is something to be said
about having funeral rights, right, you know that that can
be comforting and they're weird even if they're weird, and
be felt as a community. And I think that's the
big part, that to be felt as a community. That

(27:29):
and everyone kind of said goodbye to her, and there
was this even as she was dying, and and even
after death, there was still that connection.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
So I don't know, and even what's his face? He
was like, Oh, why don't you join with us? We
can exchange, we can help you. And the leader was like,
we don't need anything at all. Yeah, what what can
we have that the earth does not provide? Based right,
that nature does not provide for us. They don't want

(28:03):
anything to do with anybody. Uh, they want to just
stay hidden and mind their business, right, And so, like
Maggie said, hey, if you want to listen to me,
just just leave them be. Just leave these people alone, right.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Well, we could offer them stuff that they don't want, yeah, yeah,
and have no need of. It's not like they were
desperately searching for help. I mean, if they really wanted power,
all they'd have to do is just go to the DAMA.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah. I mean the only reason they even caught wind
of them is because they were being too noisy, right,
They're like, you guys were being so loud. Of course
we saw you, of course, yeah, stumping through the park
like no one's around.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Although it is kind of funny that all these violent
groups completely surround them and all of them are afraid
to go into the park, and the most peaceful people
we found so far here they sit in the middle
of the central Park. Yeah, you know, and their you know,
and their contentment and everything else in non violent ways.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Well, it's something about their energy. Is something they are
doing that keeps those walkers from attacking them.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, that'd be an interesting thing. I mean, I would
really like to know more about that, because I did
because even Maggie came out and she's watching as the
girl reanimates and them eating the heart and everything else.
And as soon as they were done eating the heart
and she she just stood up and they all walk out.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, that was very strange to me, and I did
not know what to make of it. I'm like, they
didn't even turn toward Maggie and usually they would sameal
or hear they would do something and they would see
her like he was right there.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Well, and they weren't all that far away when the
one lady brought the heart and sat it down, because
they were as soon as she stepped away, they were there. Yeah,
they could have just as easily gone for her, right,
but they didn't.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
No, Yeah, we've got to see that group again because
there's more things to learn about them. I mean, they've
opened this world and now I'm curious about it.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, and now watch we get nothing else from them.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Like you thought that was interesting?

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Ah?

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Too bad?

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Oh God, you shall suffer and know nothing. Yeah, we're
done with them.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, just forget about it. Oh my goodness. Well, you
know honestly that I kind of did not think. Okay,
So while we're talking about all the things that happened
in this episode, When I was watching the episode, Lord,
why did I think this was so boring? I don't

(31:00):
know why. I had to keep rewinding Herschel's parts. My
brain just could not compute the words coming out of
his mouth. I don't know, it was all of his parts.
I just found so dull. And I'm like, I don't
know if it's the actor. If it's I don't understand
because everything else seemed okay, but for some reason, some

(31:24):
of this just was so dull to me.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
I'm gonna go with you just don't like the you
don't like the the kid, you don't like the the
you think.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
So yeah, I don't know. I'm like, this should be interesting,
but you know me, I maybe I just don't like
a lot of kids on screen. Period.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well you did the same, you know, when you know,
while back whenever Megan was on. You had a very
hard time concentrating. Oh yeah, see, like.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Was there interest I And it's true. At the beginning
of this conversation, I did say I find Herschel annoying
and maybe that's the problem. So his scenes come on
and I'm like, uugh.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
He did the same thing with r J.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Did I? Oh no, but look that kid could not
act though.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
I'm sorry, I get that and I get it, but yeah,
you had a real hard time focusing on any scene
that he was in.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Ah, Like, no, he could not act that poor kid.
I'm sure he's better now he's much older. Yeah, but anyway,
I don't know. I'm gonna try to, you know, give
Herschel's character a fair chance, but I don't know. Just
something in this episode, I'm like, pee, we got so
this was a very Herschel centric episode, A lot about him.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yes, And I mean it wasn't just it wasn't just flashbacks.
It was you know, what he was doing now and
what was going on then? And again we got a
lot of this detail that we had no idea about
from what he was taken before. My only issue with
it is it doesn't go with the narrative they had

(33:08):
last season of what was going on with herschel because
every time we saw him, he was locked up in
a room, and it wasn't that room, right, It wasn't
even the room that the Dama came to him in initially.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
I don't know. Maybe it was just the progression of
the you know, brainwashing. You know, we're just going to
move you along. Your room gets a little better each time. Look,
now you have a few. Look we're friends. I'm giving
you candy with walnuts instead of peanuts, right, you know
those kind of things. Maybe it was just like by design,

(33:46):
it was like a mind game, right.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
And she gave him a room and an elevator, of
all things, afraid elevator. I mean, it's cool, but I
got to tell you, I don't know that I would
trust it.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, I wouldn't, But you know, I mean, like he
laid in that bed for a long time before he
decided to get up, grab a fork and see what's
going on out there. He was like unsure if he
should do it, but he did. And I think she
planted those walkers there for him.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Oh yeah, mm hmmm, because she was as soon as
he got into trouble. She was there. Yeah, I think
she was curious to see if he could even make
it out of there on his own.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, like can he even defend himself? What will he do?
Like again a test, like she's testing and pushing limits
and then hey, I'm gonna help you. I'm here to
help rescue you. You know. It was all a setup
from a to z.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Oh. Yeah, I mean like I said she was, she
was ruining him mm hmm. And she was, you know,
with the encouragement and the oh you have a vision
and you can help me do this, and you look
at this city, and I mean, AND's have it again.
I'm sure there are sprinkles of truth in it, because

(35:05):
the best manipulations, the best lies, have truth.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
And so I think she is impressed with his artistic skills.
They are impressive.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
And she does have a deep affinity towards the arts,
music and art. I mean you saw the paintings and
the sculptures and the music that she plays, and she
very much likes that to baroque kind of feel to things.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
She's got that, like you no why she's got that.
I am a part of the flowers in the attic
character list, like she could be the grandmother and the
flowers of the attic.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Well, I could see that.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah. Like she's very creepy in her style and all
of that manipulation. Yeah, I'm like, Okay, her character is
very recognizable. I'll say, you know, nothing special about her,
but that's just how she is.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Well. And I'm also wondering if part of her interest
in him is also his connection to Nagan, because she
very much wants Nigan firmly at her side, right and
under her control. So, and she knows that he is
protective of herschel mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
But when he finds out what she's been doing to
him and what he's been helping her with, he's going
to be so mad.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Oh god. Yeah. And there's also I'm kind of curious
if this was part of their plan. I mean, I'm
sure she wasn't. When she sent him back. There was
not expecting an invasion per se. It's not really much
of an invasion. It's twenty five people, come on, this
is fairly an expedition at this point, right, Actually, they

(37:00):
don't even have twenty five anymore because they've lost at
least what three four people?

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, it's a few of them, not very many.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
And you know, but I think that if Herschel's the
one that you know, lit the flare, then it kind
of surprises me that they were so willing to sink
that boat with Herschel in it.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Well, okay, so that doesn't surprise me because he's just
collateral damage. I think. I think she's gonna use him
until she can't use him anymore.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
That's fair.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
So wherever he just dies out from he's she's like,
it's a loss. Sorry, yeah, move.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
On, although she has put a lot of effort into
converting him.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, but you're right though, if she really wanted him to,
like for the long game, whatever her life game is,
then why would she let them destroy the boat that
he was on. That doesn't really make sense, not really,
not really. Okay does anything that these writers right make

(38:13):
sense really half the time?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
I mean, when we really start to take it apart,
I mean, the internal logic does start to collapse.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
This happens every time on the TWD shows, every time,
Never fail. Yeah, oh goodness.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
There just needs to be a few cardinal rules, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
It's like they need you know, once you create your
rules for your world, you have to now The rules
can be whatever you want, right, it's your fictional world.
But once you create those rules, you have to abide
by them exactly.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
I mean, in any good fantasy, in any good fiction book,
you can make up whatever bizarrow thing you want and
people will accept it as long as it's consistent, right.
And that is the one thing that The Walking Dead
has struggled with is their consistency.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Absolutely, And I think that's always going to be their issue.
Whatever future spin offs they're planning, whatever it is, they're
always going to have that problem because they've had so
many shows and it's always been the problem.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah. I mean at the beginning again, when they were
following the comics, they did okay because the comics had
that internal consistency. But once they got out on their own,
then they kind of started making up their own rules, right,
And they've changed the rules from show to show even

(39:54):
so it's yeah, it does get frustrating because it would
these shows could have been so much better if they
had just been internally consistent among all the shows. If
something is true here, then it's going to be true.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
There, right, you know, Yeah, I don't know, but left
hand isn't talking to the right they don't live off
the same rules, and I don't know, it's whatever. I
still think so far, I'm still enjoying this season more

(40:34):
than last season, I think. Okay, so that's good.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
But I will say I do, I have enjoyed this show,
and I did actually I didn't, you know, drag through
like you did on any of the scenes. So I
will say that this is a lot better than what

(41:03):
they had done with, you know, Fear of the Walking
Dead and then Dead World whatever.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
I can't even the name of that world behind.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah, that one. It's just not worthy of remembering its name.
It was awful.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, it was mad, it was.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Awful, and they had too many broken rules and those
kids were awful, just awful. But anyway, okay, look, yay,
look some.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Kids you don't like. Yay.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
No it's not just you, but no, I mean it.
But again, it's that that that an internal narrative needs
to be there, and and it's still mostly there. So
if you don't think too hard about any of this,
it goes pretty well. Just don't think too hard.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
On just don't think critically about it exactly. But to me,
that is like, okay, that's hard to do because even
when I review books right, anything where I have to
turn my brain off to enjoy it, I think something
is wrong with that. I feel like you can have
a vibe and a plot. You can have a vibe

(42:15):
and things make sense.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Right, And I agree with you absolutely.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, if it's all vibes and other I don't know.
I just I have a hard time with enjoying, fully
enjoying and engaging with things that I have to like
kind of almost just I'll use this analogy kind of
like you know, how you squint your eyes a little
bit and things become fuzzy. Then it's like it's better
because you can't see all the things.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
I don't like that well, And I am gonna say
this until we have some resolution on what exactly is
going on with with Herschel, you know, I mean the
ambiguity of what is going on in his brain, because
he seemed perfectly I mean not perfectly content, but he

(43:02):
seemed pretty happy back with him and Maggie, you know,
when they were out hunting the deer and they they
were having seemed to be developing this closer relationship, and
they were and he was working on it as well
as her. It wasn't just Maggie making an effort. Yeah,
but you know with this flashback, now it's was this

(43:26):
all an act to lull people into a false sense
of security? And if so, to what end? What is
the DAMA planning on invading the mainland and wanting information
about what's going on? Or you know, I'm and there's
this part of me that going Is Herschel the one
that told her that they were coming? Maybe, you know,

(43:48):
but he didn't know until they showed up, so they
wouldn't have had a lot of warning.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
It's true, she probably has a couple of spies, right,
I mean, she's smart, she would have a few.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
I mean, and obviously there's there's gotta be more than
Herschel Because he's young, he doesn't really have privy to
a lot of information, and he's probably watched closer than
most adults.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, and I think it's safe to assume that if
you're gonna kind of enlist a kid, that there's only
so much they can actually do, right hmm. I don't know.
Herschel might be able to do more than others. Obviously,
he just does whatever he wants, right.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
So, I mean I do want I I hope we
get a little more clarity on what's going on with
Herschel soon. I don't want it to drag.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Out, right, So one thing I would like to give
them props on. I think the scenes where the walkers
were in the tall grass, those were good. That was fun.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, and I did I will say when well, we
kind of saw glimpses of those people in in the
in the reads. I did get for a second there
whisper vibes. Yeah, very very quiet, you know, they were
just kind of blending in with with the scenery and

(45:22):
also kind of reminded me of deer.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Deer. Well, you know how deer just kind of they
sit there, don't move, you know, they kind.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Of blend in and they can be very still and
and apparently there's tigers, yeah apparently.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
But you know what though that one scene where Herschel,
I think it was Herschel, he was like looking out
somewhere and that girl was behind him, like in that
on that hill and he didn't see her. I was like,
when I saw her sitting there, I was like, oh
my god. Yeah, I didn't see her at first, and
then all the sudden it was like this blaring, oh

(46:02):
my god, there's someone sitting there watching him. Oh my gosh,
they had, I think, an opportunity to really make these
people really scary. Oh yeah, when they didn't. They chose
not to go that route.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah, but it Yeah, I mean South Park at this
point is South Park Central Park. Yeah, because they had
the zoo there and everything. They had monkeys and also
they have all sorts of things in Central Park zoo,
and I'm sure not everything survived. I haven't seen any giraffes.

(46:35):
Have you seen any giraffes?

Speaker 1 (46:37):
No, or elephants or I.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Don't think they have elephants of this, they don't.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
I don't know. I'm not familiar with that zoo. I
haven't been.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
It's a smaller one, I know that. But I do
know they have monkeys and big cats and things.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
So really even big cats. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
When when Maggie was out there looking for herschel she
heard a big cat.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
I wouldn't want to be out there. Yeah, like, I'm
sure that kat hasn't eaten in a while. Not anything substantial.
They might come and tear your limbs off, but they've
left those people alone as well.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, they're magical.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, something, there's something.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
They're magic.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
They managed to just blend into the background and everything
and everyone just leaves them alone.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Oh oh, I know they're elves.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
They're elves.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
They're elves. I mean that would that would explain everything.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
I mean, hell, why not throw that plot line in there?
Why the hell not?

Speaker 2 (47:41):
I mean why not?

Speaker 1 (47:42):
You know?

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Yeah, but you know they're oneness with nature, They're blending
in with the forest, their quietness.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, very faylike mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
So but overall, I mean, like I said, legitimately, I
did enjoy this episode. For all that we're tearing it apart.
I did enjoy the the pacing of it. I thought,
you know, watching the power struggle with Nagan, you know,
jextaposed over these very peaceful people going, we are one

(48:15):
with the earth. It was just it was fun. I
liked it so in getting a little bit more of
what was going on with Herschel back in the city.
While insightful, still a bit confusing. But I'm sure that
that is going to because they spent so much time

(48:36):
showing that. I'm sure in another episode or two that's
going to have some significance.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, I'm sure, hope, Well, I hope, right. I don't
want to assume anything when it comes to But.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
That was a lot of time spent building that up
for them to never touch on it again.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
I know it was Well, we'll see. I mean, I'm
feeling hopeful for the rest of this year and still
I think that next episode should be good and and like,
I didn't dislike the episode. Overall, it was good, even
though I did have some hasting issues and some boredom
issues here and there. Yeah, I think, you know, it
was it was visually nice to look at. You know,

(49:15):
all the stuff in the park was cool, and.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
They actually filmed that and in Central Park.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, I saw they were like moving the grass.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Around and stuff and they planted some Yeah, like that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
But yeah, I mean it was a decent I would
say it was a decent episode for sure. I think
it's on par with this season so far.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
So oh and you know, let's prepare ourselves for the
Maggie meltdown as she finds out that herschel has gone
to the dark side because they had.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Or she's gonna try to kill that woman.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Oh god, she was gonna try and kill her before, but.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Now you know, she's got to say partial. So she's
just gonna kill her to take care of it, although
that might turn him against her in a bad way. Yeah,
I don't know. I guess we'll have to see how
he shakes this off, because I'm sure he won't stay
like that. You know, they would do that.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Well, and he is a very damaged kid. Maggie did
not have to put him through all the things that
she put him through. She made choices to leave them
out in the wilderness and to keep them unprotected, and
instead of saying at Hilltop or going back to any

(50:41):
of the settlements, you know, she chose that to wander
and subject him to this world in a way that
she really didn't have to. You know, he could have
had he could have been brought up more like Judith,
with you know, this loving community around them, and to

(51:05):
take him out and drag him around and then not
give him the the love he needed, you know, I'm
sure is very painful for him.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
Honestly, he might have turned out more adjusted had he
grown up with Judith and the rest of the kids
like leave him with them, and so you figure your
life out and then come back.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Because I mean Judith, for you know, for all intents
and purposes, here is very well adjusted for her environment. Yeah,
you know, she's not hateful, she's she can be kind
and she can't be vicious. It just depends on the circumstances.
She is a survivor, and honestly, she's more of a

(51:48):
survivor than Herschel is.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Yeah, she definitely is. You know, if she had.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Been taken by the croat, she probably would have figured
out how to get out of there.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
That woman would be missing the eye or something, because
there's no way. But you know, let's remember Judith had
a very different mother, very different night and day.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Oh yeah, And like I said, I mean that Herschel
has lived in uncertainty and loneliness for most of his life.
And he hasn't had other kids to play with, He
hasn't had other adults. You know, every adult in his
life has been very transient because she's never stayed in

(52:31):
one place long enough for him to develop good, strong
bonds with anyone other than her, right, and she didn't
exactly encourage those strong bonds between the two of them.
I mean, she's overprotective of him to almost mania. But
it's it's a weird almost possessiveness rather than a you know, love.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
It's kind of just misguided. I feel like she needs
a therapist so bad.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Oh dude, she needs a therapist.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah, she needs one very bad.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
So I mean, I can't say that herschel being beguiled
by the DAMA is unlikely because of the way she
was treating him with kindness and understanding and empathizing with
his situation and how lonely he is, and then appealing

(53:33):
to his vanity with his art and you know all
those things. I mean, the validation that she was giving him.
He has got to have been craving for a very
long time. Yeah, so Maggie won't see it that way,
don't get me wrong, but it's not you know, this
poor kid is has had a rough life.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
He has had a rough life, and I kind of
want to give him a little pass on that because
of that. But my goodness, Yeah, I think he's going
to be if they do a spin off with you know,
some of these kids as adults, He's going to be
a very interesting adult character. He's going to be.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Broodie, not quite as competent.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, he's going to be, you know, third string of
the team, but you know, he might be entertaining to
watch as an adult.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Yeah, yeah, I wish we saw.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
More glutted him more who Glenn, Oh yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
That maybe not quite. I don't know if optimism is
the right word or per almost perkiness, but you know,
Glenn had that.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Glenn had charisma.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, he really did. That's the word I was searching for.
He really did. Yeah, and he.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Was kind, yes, and Herschel just has a bad attitude. Yeah,
And I mean.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
It could just be you know, teenage and anks. You know,
I don't I don't care if there's an apocalypse or not.
I'm pretty sure teenagers are everywhere in the world. Over
is still terrible than their teens. Yeah, but yeah, uh,
I just again, I think that I kind of feel
sorry for him, but he's very unpredictable right now, very unreliable.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
M hm, he's very unreliable. I agree with you. I
co sign And I just think Maggie's gonna lose it
when she figures out how deep he is into things
with the DAMA. Obviously, it's going to be a lot
more than what we've seen.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
She's gonna be so mad. Actually, her and Niked will
probably gang up to take her out because of this.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
That will be the same page.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Yeah, but we have the same side again. For one
more thing. We got to be on the same side
for this.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
The tides that bind and gay. So anyway, I think
we should wrap this up because I have a major
storm coming in and my lights are starting to flicker.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Oh no, okay, well yeah, it's our time anyway, I
have nothing more to share, all right, all right, so
it's been a good one. Thanks for listening to this
entire episode. We appreciate you for doing that, and thanks
to everyone who listen live and special thanks to Karina
who left comments during this live chat. Don't forget to
like and subscribe wherever you're listening, because we'll be back

(56:42):
again next week and you want to get that notification. Also,
if you enjoyed the discussion, please leave up five star
rating wherever you are listening. That will really help other
TWD fans find us. And yeah, we want more people
to find us. So yeah, I appreciate you in advance
for doing that. And I think that's it. We're gonna
call it. Yes, all right, have a good one, take care, guys.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Bye bye.

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The Walking Dead: Dead City S2 E3 | TWDU

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Walking Dead: Dead City S2 E3 | TWDU