The Walking Dead: Dead City S2 E4 | TWDU - The Recap! The Walking Dead Universe

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey everyone, Welcome back to the recap of the Walking
Dead universe. We are here live every week during the
show season to discuss the latest episode. Catch our recaps
at anytime on any podcast platform that you want. Today
we are covering TWD Dad City Season two, episode four,
feisty Friendly. I'm your host Tamara, and I'm glad you've

(00:27):
joined us for today's episode. A special thank you to
anyone joining us live and taking time out of your
evening to be here before we start. Please follow us
on all of your social media platforms. The links to
find both me and Lisa are in the show notes.
If you like what you hear, hit the subscribe button.
You won't want to miss a single episode. Joining me
is show co host Lisa. Welcome back, Lisa.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Hey, Tamra. Hey everyone. My name is Lisa Orvin. I
am an author. I am also the founder of Indies
United publishing house, and I love Paull. Thanks pop culture.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Okay, but before we get started, would love your participation
in this conversation. So if you are listening live on YouTube,
put us up in the comment section. If you are
catching this on a replay, you can still comment on
YouTube or Spotify or even leave us a voicemail using
the speak pipe link in the show notes. We are
laid back in our abusetyle, right, Lisa.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Oh, absolutely, Cara. This is a conversation, not a dissertation, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
No scene by scene breakdowns here. We jump around and
of course, huge spoiler alert for everything every show in
this world through yesterday's episode. And if you're good with that,
this is the place for you, and we should just
jump right to it, all right, what'd you.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Think Hershel's a trader?

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, little brat, little brat. It's official. He it's been official,
but it's official official now, right.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
You know, the rumors were there, you know, the the
clues were there. I didn't see him, you know, yeah,
but yeah, uh, they're there. The clue was partially the
rag apparently, yeah, and uh and stuff like that. So
I'm that sorry, guys, but mister too.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
At first, I mean, I heard a couple of people
talking about it, but I'm like, really, what you know?
And they weren't even saying it was confirmed in that episode.
They were all just kind of speculating at that point.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah. Well, and I really didn't think he he would
have been for a couple of reasons, But the main
one was last season, every time we saw Herschel he
was in a bad way. M hm. You know, he
was not having a good time. He was not in
that fancy room, he was not drawing, he was not

(02:38):
living well you know, he was you know, tied up.
He was a prisoner, right, and then we saw his toe. Yeah,
so you know, I mean there was they worked really
hard at that, mister wreck by not giving us the
proper information.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Well, look, here's the thing I still expect, even if
it's a couple of sentences, I expect them to clear
that up for us. When was he getting tortured?

Speaker 2 (03:08):
You know?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
When was he in a bad way? When did they
decide to cut off a toe? Right? Was it a look,
we need to send you back looking like you went
through something or was it before? And to break him down?
And now the DAMA is building him back up, Like,
give me a little bit of context because it seems weird.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Right, I mean, I guess maybe when they found out
that Meagan and Maggie were back in we're in the city,
They're like, Okay, we don't know when they're going to
be here, but we're going to toss you in here
to make it look good, you know, or if everything
that we had seen up until them finding Herschel was

(03:54):
from early on in his captivity, not later on. Right,
But again, when they found Herschel, he was not exactly
living in a he was He was tied up to
a chair, wasn't.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
He look I guess they could have said, hey, the
people are coming for you. We got to put you
where you need to be, so it looks like you're
having a rough time, like you gotta stay here until
you get rescued. I don't know. Maybe it was that, but.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
It also seems kind of weird because I mean, so
they they were getting the hints that that Maggie and
Megan were in town, right, but I don't think they
meant for them to create the kind of destruction that
the two of them did actually end up creating. I mean,

(04:49):
let's face it, think I don't think things one exactly
is planned.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
No, definitely not, or if that was.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
The plan, I'm gonna really wonder about out them.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, and I am kind.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Of wanting now to go back and watch the first
season again.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Oh well, if you do, you let me know what
you find, because I'm not doing it. Let me know,
if you see something that looks different than you think
you saw it the first time.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
I'm not saying I'm going to I'm just saying, at
least right now, I'm like, wait a minute, this is
just it's not quite gelling, just because of when we
had this flashback this season. I mean, Herschel is in
a really great, you know, gigantic freight elevator that's been

(05:38):
turned into this slank thing that he can look out
over the city at, you know, I mean, this is yeah,
and I don't know. It almost sounds like the plan
was to let Maggie rescue him, to send him back,
but for what reason we don't.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Know, right And I mean maybe and you know, we're
just all hypothesizing over here and having our own ideas
of what they could have in their brains because we
really don't know. But it could really be as simple
as send Herschel back. And in this season, in this season,
in this episode, we know that the Dama was a

(06:19):
little surprised to see him. I think, so I think
that maybe he was just supposed to be a sleeper
cell and just stay there and just let me know
if anyone comes right right, if the day should come
where they come to the city trying to get something
or attack us or invade us. Just let me know.

(06:41):
I don't know if she actually intended for the kid
to actually come across the river, you know, I don't
know she expected that or not.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, because I mean she was pretty intent on that
boat being sunk sunk.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, so I gotta think she didn't think he was
even on it, so because you know, his mother didn't
want him on the boat, So I think he was
just supposed to stay there and kind of just be
the warning signal. So that's my guess anyway.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, and it was it was kind of an interesting
moment between Niagan and Maggie mm hmmm, because I gotta
tell you, when Nigan wants to he could really have
the sad puppy dog face going on there, and he's
just like, I can't. There's people, you know, I can't,

(07:31):
And she instantly knew, oh, your wife and child.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
But look, this is why I thought that was kind
of silly, Like, why are we playing these games? You
guys are past that. Just say they got my family
or just say people. Why are you being so elusive
about it? What's the big deal you guys, I'll ask this,
Let's get to business.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
You know, you can tell that Nagan legitimate Lee likes
Maggie at this point. M and Maggie is doing everything
she can to make sure that everyone knows she hates Meagan.
But I'm beginning to think she doesn't hate Meagan.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
She hates that she doesn't hate him, Yeah, exactly, And
she feels like she still should hate him, which I
do understand.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
I'm sure she probably thinks that her not hating him
anymore probably feels like a betrayal to Glenn.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
HM.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
But and it really was kind of sad. She should
have finished that story about Glenn. She should have because
Herschel was Herschel has almost no stories of his father
because no one will speak of him because of how
Maggie feels, and that's been very unfair to him. Is

(08:53):
everyone that could talk about Glenn doesn't because of Maggie.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
You know, the people they're with now, they probably never
none of those people knew him.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
No, But I mean when whenever, like when Maggie went
back with the group back on the other show, I
guess when there was at least once where someone said
something about Glenn and Maggie of course just went and
they stop. And you know, so when she started to
talk about Glenn, when you know, she's the the KitKat

(09:29):
bar mm hmm, and herschel really perked up. He wanted
to hear about this, He wanted to hear about his dad,
and and I think it's really kind of it's been
very selfish of Maggie not to share how great his
dad really had been. I mean, she she has conveyed

(09:50):
to him that she loved his dad, okay, and that
she was devastated by his death, but she she's never
really shared any stories apparently about him. He knows literally nothing.
He's found out more about his dad from Nagan, probably
than he has for Maggie.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, we know Maggie has quite a few shortcomings when
it comes to parenting. And it's almost like, on one hand,
I don't want to be too hard on her because
she has very you know, a very interesting set of circumstances, right,
But on the other side, everyone is struggling. Everyone's in
the apocalypse, everyone lost people, right, everyone is dealing with

(10:31):
this world right, like pull it together a little bit.
So I'm teetering on, you know, having empathy toward her.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
So yeah, well, guys, I mean it's and I do
realize the brutality of Glenn's death was awful, don't get
me wrong. Yeah, but he wasn't the only one that
died that night, right, and died brutally. And it's not
like no one else on the show has ever had
a brutal death, because there have been a lot of them.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
And you know, I mean, let's take Rick's wife who
died in childbirth and his son had to put her
down after she had the baby. You know, that was traumatic.
And yet you know, Carl was a pretty good kid.

(11:25):
I mean, he had some issues. Everyone has issues on
this show, right, you know, but it didn't keep him
from being a good son and a good big brother
and a good person. And I'm not saying that Maggie
isn't a good person, but she is hard.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
She is hard, and she knows that. She even said,
you know, hey, I know I seem this way, but
I'm gooy on the inside. She basically said that I'm
hurting and I'm scared, right, And that's just how she
has developed up as a person over these years. In
that Yeah, I don't know, I've had someone in my

(12:07):
family that you know, it's just a real hard outer shell, right,
it's really hard to break into it. But once you do,
you know, but they're still they still appear that way.
So I again I struggle with you know, yes, she's
got some work to do to improve her relationship with
her son, but on the other hand, I still kind

(12:28):
of feel like she's doing what she can with her
own issues, you know what I'm saying and that.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
But like I said, she she started talking about the
kit kat bar, and she was happy until she you know,
until it's like, oh yeah, gooid, and then she just
shut up. And he looked up and herschel looked absolutely
devastated that she wouldn't continue the story.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
And his reaction to that was who cares about the past?
All they did was bad stuff anyway.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Right, so trying to cover up his disappointment.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, But you know, I think the more conversations they have,
the more Maggie is starting to realize how her behavior
affected her son. Like when they were talking about the
firefly situation again on the roof, you know, and he's like, well, actually,
she says, do you remember it the same way as me?

(13:31):
And he's like, well, actually, right, I was a little
older and I remember you crying and being sad and
I wanted to like lift your spirits kind of right,
And she apologizes that She's like it dawns at her
that Wow, he saw me like bawling and being sad,
and it made her feel bad that he had to

(13:51):
do that. And you know that's growth to me.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, a little bit.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, you know there.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
I mean it's but you can also hear now that
you realize that he has been under the Dama's spell,
you can also hear her in the things he says,
like the past is gone, it doesn't mean anything, because
that's very much about the Dama, you know, the things
that she said. You know, we don't want to go
back to the past. We wanted to stay. We want

(14:19):
that to be passed and broke. We want to new something.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Well, you know, I feel that, especially now that Meagan
has said to Maggie, hey, your kid is not to
be trusted. Yeah, he's been turned. Now that that has
been kind of related to her, I feel like, even
though she doesn't want to believe it, right, I think
that's going to get some kind of sense of urgency

(14:47):
in her that she needs to rebuild trust with herschel
immediately where she can kind of still manage to sway
him or have any kind of authority over him, because
she's got like, I don't know how she's gonna do
it in this situation where they're trying to hurry up
and you know, accomplish a goal. But somehow she's got

(15:08):
to break through to him. And I think maybe that's
why she asks the firefly story, you know, trying to
crack through a little bit. Maybe.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Well, no, because the Firefly story was before she went
talked to Nagan.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Oh well shit, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Then.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, well, she's got work to do, and now she's
probably gonna feel like she's gonna be looking at him sideways,
even though she does. I'm sure she doesn't want to
take Nigan at his word, but now that it's like
once someone says something, it's in your head. Now, yeah
it is, and she's gonna be looking at him sideways.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
And I do find it interesting the way that Niga
talks to Maggie. He talks very soft, very soothing, as
if his very voice will break her.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
He talks her like she is the scared puppy or
dog that could bite your hand off, right, So she's, hey, hey,
it's all good. You know. He's talking, like you said,
kind of mild, low key, trying to keep even tempered,
for sure. But I think it's because he thinks her reaction.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, he You can tell how much Meigan has attitude
has changed towards him simply by the way he's talking
to her, because it is very there is compassion in
his voice when he talks to her. There's concern and

(16:44):
and I think it's kind of interesting and it's it's
not it's not one of those sayings like, oh, they're
going to fall in love. Oh no, no, no, not that no, no.
I mean, Nigan has a had a grudging respect for
her for a very long time that has turned into
genuine respect. But he's also very much aware of how

(17:06):
fragile she really is, and he does care about her
in this weird, weird way.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
See, I would be reluctant to say care per se.
I feel like, we know he respects her, Yes, we
know he has a healthy fear of her because you know,
she is relentless, she is, so I think he just
really respects her of nothing else, and he just wants
to maintain a working relationship that you can deal with

(17:40):
each other, right.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Right, But no, I really do think that Nigan has
like I said, of no doubt he has respect for her.
But I do get the impression that he cares about
her and not not like he cares about his wife,
not or anything like that. But there's this almost sense

(18:05):
of responsibility because she is this way because of him.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Okay, maybe I guess if I put it in context
again of a wounded dog or something, maybe, yeah, like
maybe in that way he cares for her, Yeah, because
he did. He broke her, he damaged her, so he
feels a responsibility, right.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Like I said that, he does have a mad respect
for you know, he had definite fear of her too,
and she said a fear. But I think part of
that too is the realization that Maggie is this way
and it's his fault. M hm, and it is this
is her being this way is Megan's fault ultimately.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Oh, definitely, no question there. And he can't even deny it.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
So no, he can't.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
There is a a distinct difference of pre Glenn being
bludgeoned to death and post being bludgeoned to death.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, her character basically changed a lot after that. Yeah,
that was wild, but you know, so now he's dealing
with it, and now he knows he's got a task
to do. He's got to protect his family, and he's
still even though he said he couldn't tell, he still
gave up the goods anyway.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, he did. It's like he would. I knew it,
mm hmm, because he always does well. Not always, but
you know, his recent react or recent interactions with Maggie
would indicate that he would see.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
I feel like he almost thinks of Maggie as kind
of like, you know, it's the the wound that constantly
festers and never heals. So as long as she comes
and asks him, he will probably be happy to never
see her ass again, because anytime she comes to him
and asks for something or needs something, he's gonna do it,
whether he wants to or not. Yeah, because he still

(20:07):
feels like he owes her. He still has to make
it right, you know, So he's gonna do it to
his own detriment, right.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
And I think until she until Maggie is a whole
person again, he's gonna feel that responsibility for as long
as he's alive. Yeah, and I do hope that someday
Maggie becomes a whole person again. I'm sure he does.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
You know. You know, I'm sure he does. And to
be quite frank if that probably will be the moment
they never see each other again. I just cannot see
any world where they are in the same space, living
day to day forever into the future. I just cannot
see it.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Oh, I can't either it. Yeah, if they have to
be in each other's presence, I mean there is you know,
there is a brutal trust between the two.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Of them, Yes, especially because she has to consider Herschel
and Herschel is still really upset about all of that,
even though he tries to act like he's not. He
acts like he doesn't care, like any teenager does, but
clearly he does the way he acts.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
And and he does, or at least Glenn did, like Nagan. Uh,
I'm not sure at this point what who knows anymore?

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Who knows?

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Oh? Speaking of teenage angst, you know we have a
gun oh gosh, yeah, an Avenge revenge plot.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah. She Jenny's like, I have revenge plans, and you know,
Naravez is like, hey, what you doing with this gun girl? Yeah,
what's happening? And she understands, like, let me.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Claim this for you so you can you know, get
your you know, quote unquote legal vengeance.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
But you know, she also confirmed that Heaan is alive
by asking her, oh, it's his name? Meagan said who
it is? So she kind of just also confirmed and
went against what what what's his space? Said? You know,
everyone thinks that he killed Nigan and he did not. Yeah,
so I think maybe Jenny and her will work together

(22:19):
at some point.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, probably, And because this whole time, Maggie's assuming that
Jenny wants to get back to Meagan so that she
can be with him again. And yeah, that's that's the
way wrong thing to look at this.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
That is very wrong. And I think that while you know,
is she in general, what's her what's her title, what's
her station? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
But yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
I think she will help Jenny. They will team up,
but in the end, she's gonna come for Praarly. She's
going to be like, you lies, you need to die.
It's in the rules or some shit. She's gonna use
that to kind of get rid of him because kind
of speaking about her never as or I think that's
how you said Navarres. I think that's how you say it.

(23:13):
You know, when Pearley tells them, hey, stay here, we'll
be back. Uh huh, she's like what does she say? Yes,
sir or something? She had the most sarcastic look on
her face.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yes, colonel, yes right.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
I'm like, oh man, she said that with the biggest
dose of sarcasm she could muster. I'm like, okay, we
know how that's going. So she's gonna look for every
opportunity to get rid of him.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, And and part of what kills me about her
is she is still thinking that she is operating from
a place of strength when they obviously are not. And
even if they find this methane, do they really think
they're just gonna pick the tanks up and carry them
back across the water.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
No, that's not how that works. So I don't know
what they think they're gonna do. That's we don't know
that part of the plan. What happens when they get
to the location. What are they trying to do?

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Exactly right, because they could try to secure the location,
but there's not enough of them.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
No, they don't even have their whole crew anymore.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Right, I think they're down to like what fifteen eighteen people.
Maybe maybe it's not like they have unlimited AMMO. They've
lost most of their almost all of their supplies, not
that they had a lot to begin with, because almost
all the supplies were taken from the communities that they
took the people from. And this isn't a voluntary army.

(24:43):
She is probably the only person there that wants to
be there, right, And I don't know there were a
few others before, but you know, like the historian who
at this point probably wants to be anywhere than where
he is.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Oh my gosh, guy, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
But yeah, it's uh, yeah, there's.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
There's Honestly, the plan is half baked. What are they
gonna they It's half baked. That's why it's gonna fail.
It's gonna be a mess.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Right because logic would dictate after they lost everyone to
somehow figure out a way to get off of this
island without anyone else noticing m HM as best they
can and go back and regroup. Because what they're doing
right now is suicide. I'm sorry. They're cut off from

(25:36):
their entire army, which they didn't have one much of
one anyway, right, because honestly, if they had an army,
they would have brought an army, not conscripted fifty people
who didn't want to be there.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, it was a bad plan from the very beginning.
So whatever they think they're gonna do is gonna fail.
You know, there's her what's her face? I cannot say
her name. I keep saying it wrong, the colonel whatever,
she's gonna be splitting her attention, trying to take care
of pearly. Yep, it's not gonna work. It's gonna be

(26:17):
a mess. They're gonna find out that Nigan told, which
is gonna make a bigger mess. I don't know. I'm
curious to see how it goes down, because it will
be a fight or more people will die. Somebody else
is gonna die.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
I did. I did get kind of a giggle out
of the dinner setup. Did you notice how it is
set They set this whole thing up like the Last Supper?

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah? I noticed. It was kind of obvious, like on
the nose kind of Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
There was even I don't there's one point where everyone
was kind of doing the same thing that they had
inside the actual Last separate painting. So I did have
kind of a little bit of a giggle out of that.
There have been more blatant cinematography done with that particular scene,

(27:18):
but I did think it was kind of funny.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, I think so. I mean, this guy Brugal, he's weird, right.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
He wants it so over the top.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
He's serving up rats and carrots like it's a fine
dining experiment, you know, serving like, hey, this is the
best of the best food for you guys, enjoy, like
you're the five star restaurant eating rats.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
I guess, yeah, hey, but you got a carrot.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
And a carrot.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
That carrot was a big deal.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
I'm sure it was. And we're gonna watch a show.
But the show is going to be like fights Walker.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Fights, Okay, I gotta know, because I've been suspicious about
this quote unquote Walker since the first time we showed
you know, they they showed them, yep, and you and
I were because we were wondering, like, are these two
living guys or these the dead? Seems kind of weird,
although the whole putting brains on the on each of

(28:14):
the contestants does actually explain a few.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Things, well, not if it's the from the dead. It's
got to be from something living, because remember they were
using the debt's guts and stuff to hide, right, So
it only works if I guess maybe it's from another animal.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
It can't be from a person where they cant have
that blood from well, that doesn't really make sense.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
I mean there are people, I mean, they kill a
lot of people, so you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
I mean, it has to be a person, orn't animal.
And if they have an animal big enough to get
all that blood, you could be eating that animal.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
And not rats exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
So does not make sense to me. It's not blood
of the dead because it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah, I mean I knew, I mean I assumed that
that's why they were basically doctoring him up. But I
had been suspicious about the champion.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
I'm like, you know, we both were, because we were saying,
they don't even walk like that, they don't even like
fight each other like that. That's not even using the blood.
It doesn't really answer the question all the way.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
And now why, Yeah, at least one of them was alive. Yeah, yeah,
and Megan wasn't didn't suspect that at all. It just
Nigan was being Meagan. You know, we're gonna douse this
guy down with oil and we're gonna slick him up
like a pig.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
He knew something was off.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
He knew something was off, but it wasn't until he
was holding against the gate.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Then he knew.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
And then he pushed him back.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
And let him go. Yeah, he probably dead in his
eyes like, oh my god, it's a guy.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
It's a person, this is a real person.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, because his eyes weren't all, you know, cloudy.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, and I will say that, you know, the old
Knigan would have let him die and wouldn't have blinked.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, but he knew if I pushed the guy back,
he'll probably save himself. And now I have leverage. I
have leverage over Brugal. He's gonna do what I want
because I'm going to expose him if he doesn't. Yeah,
And so he probably just whispered in his ear. Oh,
I know that guy's alive, and I'm going to tell

(30:35):
everyone to let you agree for.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
You exactly what he said. M hmm, because he could
have outed him right then and there.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
He could have.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
And did you notice that he didn't mention to the
dam or anyone else what had happened. Well, he didn't
tell them that this was a real life person.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
No, I wouldn't either. He's got to keep something in
his pocket.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
You know, as long as she got what she wanted,
what doesn't matter, right, I mean.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
She's suspicious. She knows he said something, she just doesn't
know what.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, she was eyeballing them, like what is he saying
to him? But at that point, you know, hey, they
got what they wanted. They got him in the alliance
and didn't have to give up anything for it exactly.
So for now she's satisfied. And I'm sure the Crawat
was pissed off because he wasn't the one who got

(31:31):
the deal done right.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
He's the one who almost blew it about a half
a dozen times.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I know. So it was Meagan's job to stop him
from messing up, Like, hey, be a roadblock for him
anytime he goes off the rails and we almost like
lose the deal. Go in there and fix it. She
moves him over and, you know, make it right, and
he does in the ninth hour. You know, he's always
at the last minute. Oh man, this isn't going right. Okay,

(31:58):
I'll step in and say something.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
He doesn't want to, but he does it.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Oh and I did enjoy the historian when he realized
who the Dutma was. Oh, I know who you are.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
What he is theater critic in the world, and.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
I fit him.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
I am curious to see what her history, her past
story is going to have to like how it informs
what she's doing now exactly.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Well, so we know that she was a very big deal.
That she made her break, broke you know, careers, and
then her career got broken and she was no longer
powerful anymore. She was no longer the it girl, and
you know who the one wielding the power. And I

(32:52):
think you know that's part of her hatred for the
old world because it humiliated her. You could, you could see,
I don't It was like embarrassment, anger, seething rage, all
sitting there next to the historians.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Look, it took everything in her not to tell his
ass to shut up immediately, like you could tell it
was bubbling up. But I think she just kept her
mouth shut. She couldn't, you know, I guess all those
people around you couldn't really react.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Oh what was she gonna do?

Speaker 1 (33:27):
She might she might try.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
All right before this is all said and.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Done, she might she's a fighter.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
She's not even dead, So yeah, she started the trend.
I guess she's at.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, but apparently she likes running people. She likes Boston
people around. She's very judgmental. Clearly she's got an I
for what she thinks good art.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Is, right, I don't know. Yeah, she like I said
she she once because she is a weird, weird woman,
because she does have this fascination with the past, you know,
with the paintings and the music and the you know,
the the trappings and stuff. And at the same time

(34:14):
she absolutely loaths it and you can tell that she
lows it. So you know, she's just kind of an
interesting mix.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
I mean, she's talking about building the city new, right,
not restoring it to what it was, but making something new.
She talked to that guy who was the violinist, like, hey,
that old music is it's nice, but what about new music? Basically,
so she is over the past.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
I don't know, and yet she surrounds herself with it.
I mean where she you know, her her primary domicile,
it's it's all the broken velvet.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
And yeah, I guess she kind of as that in
common with Brugal because he's in the met with all
the art from all over the place. He's got all
the fancy things as well. They collect their collectors.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yeah, and they're both insane. Yeah, he's just a little
more flamboyant in his insanity than she is. But she
is just as insane as he is.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Oh, no doubt. What do you think that was the
deal with them? Like calling him, they're essentially saying he's wealthy, Yeah,
wealthy with what exactly?

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Well, I mean he's got the art museum, he's got
I think wealth in this case is power, and he
does have power.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
He did have the biggest group I think. Yeah, so
he definitely has power in numbers. He doesn't have actual power.
That's what he was trying to negotiate for. So he
doesn't have that.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
And he did all the he runs the trading market,
m h. And he gets a bit of everything. So
he probably does have more food, more, you know, more
necessities and luxuries than you know, than anyone else.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah. I guess that was a show of look what
I have with this. Each person gets a whole carrot.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, you know, it wasn't the rat, but it was
the carrot. That was the big deal because he had
a whole tirade about the carrots. Yeah, carrot, And I
mean there they're in New York. It's it's not like
it is easy to grow things. I mean you can,

(36:43):
I guess in Central Park, but no one goes into
Central Park because you know, it's taken over by the
dead and the whatever that group has. The group even
given us a name.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Or what they do have a name. They were calling
them foragers. I think, okay, kind of like foraging in
the wilderness kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
So you know, but yeah, I mean there's not a
This is very much a city that is encased in concrete.
So growing anything has it's not like wouldn't be easy
to grow, to feed livestock or grow food, right, I
mean power they have m But honestly, if the Dama

(37:29):
wasn't so insane, it would have been in her better
interest to trade with the more you know, farming communities
around the areas. We'll give you this and you give
us food, and it would have been a mutually beneficial arrangement.

(37:49):
But you know she doesn't do that.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
No, of course, not that would make sense right. Well,
speaking of making sense, one thing kind of not makes
sense to me. So obviously, Maggie's plan to get into
the museum unseen was to have a distraction, and she somehow,

(38:13):
you know, she knocks over the candelabra and that painting
catches on fire. They all run in there, oh, who
did this? But then they just go back to their
business as it were when the fire is out, Like
no one she doesn't even say, hey, find out who
did this? Look around if someone else in here, you know,

(38:34):
the dama and her people are with us, who knocked
it over? Figure it out? I don't know. It seemed weird. Yeah,
this painting that meant so much to him there.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
He's also again, he's also unstable, and I think fire
is one of those things that has been a problem
for them. But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Who did this right now, since a team of people
off to figure out who did it, even if.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
As someone who has really bad ADHD. And I say
this knowing I have an ADHD boyfriend who in the
moment of things, but what it's when the moment is
over then he'll just go on as if nothing has
ever happened. So yeah, he very much reminds me of
someone who has very very bad, Adhd. I've seen my

(39:35):
boyfriend do this.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Okay, Well, so I still think Maggie's plan wasn't the best.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
I don't think it was either, and it's not that
it was. I mean, it was a good distraction, and
I'm sure she was figuring she would be out of
there before things returned to normal, so to speak. Yeah,
and she probably assumed that he would spend more time
trying to figure out how it got knocked over.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Well, then her exit. Right, she's on that balcony. She's
trying to run behind the pillars, you know, pausing to
see if anyone's looking up there, right, and she's failing miserably.
Obviously people can see your house up there, and of
course Domacy spots her up there and they're looking at

(40:26):
each other in the eyes. I'm like, oh gosh, yep,
I said, you're about to die.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
I think that's the point right there where the Dama
looked at her and said nothing mm hmm, that she
knew that Meagan wasn't lying about herschel Yeah, because there
was no reason for her to stay quiet.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
No, yeah, there wasn't a reason. But I think that
in that moment, that kind of told me that Maggie's
going to be the one to kill her. When she
does die, is gonna be at Maggie's hand.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
I think I'm gonna go.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
With that, h like you've messing with my son. I'm
gonna take you out like you crossed the line. But yeah,
so also then you know Nick and Sesar up there,
and he's trying to help be a distraction essentially as well. Right, See,

(41:25):
he's still helping her.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
He is still helping her, and he will, like I said,
he's gonna help her until he feels his debt is repaid,
and the debt won't be repaid until Maggie is a
whole person again, which may never ever happen.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, I don't think it will. I mean, I think
maybe she'll get a little better at concealing it and
kind of like stuffing it away for a while, but
she'll probably never be fully right, and maybe Harshall can
get over it. Yeah, he's gone, And.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
It's not that I don't I don't feel for Maggie.
I mean, it wasn't. Glenn's passing was a brutal death
and she loved him. Okay, but everyone in this world
has lost somebody uh, look at Carol her you know,

(42:23):
I mean, her daughter is turned into a walker. Look
at the flowers. And and then her adopted son ended
up with his head on a spike.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
So, and while she did go crazy for a little bit,
don't get me wrong, she did, but she managed to
pull herself back together and become a person again. And
she lost a lot of people she did.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
But I think we're kind of comparing apples to oranges
as far as their personality type, right.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
I mean, did not get it. But like I said,
it's just Maggie's not the only person that's ever lost somebody.
But the way, the way she has taken his death
has been.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
She has severe PTSD.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, she's got she's got things going on.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
It's still traumatizing her. Is she like, do they have
therapists in this world? Ain't by a god therapist you know,
used to be a therapist in the old world? Because
she needs one.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
She desperately needs one.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah mm hmm, Okay, what else was going on? So
what do you think about Brugal using his bodyguard like that?
I'm surprised a bodyguard would let himself be used like that,
Like you're this big guy like how, I don't know

(43:54):
how he is able to command you.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Right, I'm going to go with I don't know, there
was probably drugs involved at first, like I mean, because
he was almost he was not human anymore, not really,
you know, he wasn't a walker obviously, but he barely spoke.

(44:20):
He was. He was eating raw meat.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
So at the beginning or one of the first scenes,
I don't know which seat order whatever, he gives him
the animal in the behind the curtain, yeah, and he
picks it up, and you know, we don't see him,
but we hear him eating.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
It, right, Ah, you are hungry, you know.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
And I'm like, oh my gosh. And I'm like, that's
not a walker, is some body because no walker is
able to reach their hand out and grab food like that.
So I instantly kind of knew that, and I think
what we were in for.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
I'm not sure exactly what this guy did, but I'm
going to go with it was not nice.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah, you know, I don't know. He could have just
been totally taken advantage of by him as well. I mean,
we never can't tell, right, It's hard to know. And
now it doesn't even matter because he's dead now. He
did yeah, yeah, he says, I no longer have a
use for you. So Gig is because he was.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
He truly is afraid that if he uses his uses
him again, Meagan can out him at any time.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
M hm.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
And at this point he can just say no his
you know, something happened or whatever, you know, he fell apart. Yeah,
and there's no proof at this point. It's only Megan's word,
and you know that might be an I don't think
that's enough. Yeah, they may have their suspicion, but Meagan

(46:02):
saying this is what happened is not enough.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Honestly, Brugal can just say, hey, it turned and attacked me,
so it had to go down right and it people
will be done with it. Okay, So what's next.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
So because no one was really I mean, they were
invested in the fighter to the point of you know,
you know, they were winning and losing betting on him.
But but yeah, no one really cared about him. So
and I suppose, you know, Megan could eventually find the

(46:37):
people that you know, h he had cheated and say hey,
but again that's still at this point a long shot. Yeah.
The only way it's effect is effective is if he
had outed him right then and there.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Right he did the window, and so now he got
rid of him. So there's no proof because you know
when at first, when you know Meagan was kind of saying, oh,
he must be jacking up these things with you know,
chemicals and stuff. You know, what are you doing to it?
You know, I'm sure I could figure this out. You know,
the people are already looking like what was he saying?

(47:19):
So if he were out him for using an actual
person in that moment, they would have reacted horribly.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Oh yeah, they would have torn him from limb to
limb because oh yeah, you know, people, even people in
that area have lost things to him because of you know,
his his walker always wins. Yeah, and then to find
out that it was his bodyguard who was still very
much alive, Yeah, it would have been held a pay.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
But you know, ultimately Nagan won the round. You know,
he won, so he got rid of his fake champion,
even if he didn't mean for him to die. You know,
he got him off the board. You'll never see him again,
and he got the alliance that was his whole purpose. Yeah,

(48:10):
he got he won, And so maybe Brugal's gonna feel
a way about that later. Maybe it'll be another issue
between them at a later date, or maybe not. Maybe
he'll try to make an alliance with him specifically to
go against Dama. Maybe.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yeah, although I will say the crow At was looking
a little upset with Megan for looking so good in
the eyes of the Dama.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
He's so jealous of anyone that gets praised from her.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, and then when the Dama invited Nigan to sit
in the back seat with him.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Oh he bought died.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Oh yeah, he's mad.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
I think that is so gross. Like, I can't figure
out what is it that he just needs approval so badly.
That's his number one motivator is to get pats on
the head and told good job. It's kink level a
problem for him. Right, what's happening?

Speaker 2 (49:15):
I mean, there is, there are things happening. I'm just
not quite sure what you know. I mean, I could
make a few guesses, but yeah, none of them are good.
And yeah, I mean he is insanely jealous of his
position with the Dama and he is fiercely loyal to her.

(49:41):
But yeah, there's they have a weird relationship.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yes, very weird, because he is very childish and jealous.
Oh yeah, I don't know, and she gets some kind
of she gets something out of it. She must enjoy
getting the attention or something.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Well, I think she likes his number on his loyalty.
He might be cruel and deadly and God only knows
what to everyone else, but to her, you know, she
he is a lap dog.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
He is a lap dog, And honestly, no matter how
tough he tries to come across, we are reminded constantly
that he really isn't anything to be worried about, because
think about even Brugal, he's making fun of his accent.
He's not scared of him. He don't give af He's like, oh,

(50:42):
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to make fun of you,
but i am.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
But I am.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Oh yeah, Like no one is scared of him, not all.
So you know, I don't know. He tries to come across,
so he just is coming across as jealous andy yeah,
and a loose cannon that you have to have someone
constantly run behind him and make sure he doesn't ruin
things right, That is horrible. I don't understand why he's

(51:11):
still around, only because he's so loyal. That's the only
reason she's.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Still And I think it's just because he gives off
a scary persona to the common people. M and the
domin doesn't have to worry about him. She doesn't. You know,
she can literally turn her back on him and not
worry about him stabbing it. Yeah, and I don't. And

(51:35):
he may be the only person that she can turn
her back on that on him and not worry about it,
because God knows, she can't do it with Meigan, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
She's got to keep one eye on him at all times. Uh.
She's constantly throwing the threat of his family in the air.
I know. Nigan is like, if you bring them up
one more time.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Well, and you can hear the she is toying with
him with the whole. Oh, they would have been so
proud of you. Oh I'm sorry, I mean they would
be proud of you, or they will be proud of you.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah, you know she's playing games. Oh yeah, you know
the whole Have you heard the phrase play stupid games
when stupid prizes? Oh yeah, I could get a stupid
prize because.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
It's crazy, really stupid prize.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Yeah, I didn't playing with the wrong person, lady.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
And I'm really beginning to wonder I'm sure that at
one point she had his wife and kid, but I
don't know that they're still alive. And I think she
knows that they're not alive and she's toying with him.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Yeah, totally could be. Yeah, it's totally possible. That would
suck if they were gone. But oh, I hope they're not.
I kind of hope they're alive.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
I hope they're alive too. But the way the way
she's acting is very very suspicious. It is handious, and
this woman is that shit. So she knows the threat
of she's holding over his head of his family is
effective for now. But I think she's kind of enjoying

(53:17):
torturing him with the knowledge that they're probably not alive.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Yeah, And honestly, I don't the more she uses it casually,
I don't know how effective it will be continued to
be right, Like, yeah, you keep bringing them up, but
they're not here. What you're gonna do, right, I don't know.
I mean, it might continue to work, but she's using
it so frequently, and like I said, casually, he looked

(53:46):
like he was about to roll his eyes, like, which
is not bringing them up? We already agreed, Like why
are you absolutely trying to threaten me? That gets all she.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Likes to toy with people, because I don't she's yeah,
she's a she's a hod dug.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
That's a nice way to put it. So definitely odd.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yes, I can't say that this was my favorite episode.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
No, it was kind of blow to me, but it was.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
It did have its moments that, you know, I did
kind of find amusing.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
You know, it kind of reminds me of like how
some of the older episodes where everything happens in one place,
you know, we're not traveling or we're not with like well,
we did have a little bit of two groups you
know today in that episode, but generally everyone was at
the museum right trying to do what they needed to do,

(54:47):
which was kind of I guess. It was fine and
allowed to kind of dig into some other parts of
the story a little bit, but it wasn't very exciting.
Even the fight wasn't that exciting to me because I
kind of like I knew what was going on, so
I wasn't even really like hyped up by that either.
So I don't know, it's a little slow.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, I said, definitely not my favorite episode. It had
a few moments in there that I kind of got
a giggle from. But yeah, for the most part, I
mean it did give us some you know, so we
know that I forgot her name, the girl that was
with Meagan. We know that she's out to Jenny, Jenny,

(55:31):
you know, she's out to get him, and you know
the secret is now out more or less that Meagan
is alive, and you know, a couple. I mean, we again,
we got a little bit more backstory but on a
few things. But for the most part, yeah, it was

(55:52):
kind of slow.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Yeah, and we know that new the Foragers will continue
to be around. They're going to be a part of
this probably until the end.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah, And so as much as they want to get
rid of everybody, it's time for you to go now.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Yeah, And he's like, you know what, let them pack up,
I'll be back. She goes, Okay, fine, I'm sure they're
not leaving right away, right.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
So, I mean, we really got four more.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
This was the halfway mark.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
This is the halfway mark. So yeah, it's not like
we have a whole lot of episodes left.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
So you know, it's almost like I feel like a
whole lot of nothing is happening, Like a whole lot
of things, but a whole lot of nothing. That's the
only way I can think of it. Like, we already
kind of knew the things, you know, so none of it. So, yeah,
we did get some confirmations of things.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Right, your Herschel and Doma coming face to face. Yeah,
you know, we got the you know, Maggie has now
been told that Herschel is you know, has been turned
a trader. He's a trader. Yeah, you know. So, I
mean we have some some of those things have been

(57:04):
you know, confirmed now that they're not just vaculation, right.
So I do hope though that next week is a
little more gass paced.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Yeah, me too. I was like sitting there now, I
guess the one thing it did have going forward is
I did not have to rewind anything and I did
not fall asleep. So that's a good.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
You know, hey, there's that's that's something.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
That's a win win. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
So but I think we're about done. What do you think?

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Yeah, I've got nothing else, so we can just wrap
it up. It's been a good conversation. Guys. Thanks for
checking in and listening to the whole episode. We appreciate
you for doing that. Again, Thank you to everyone who
listened in Live. I know there were a few of
you out there. We appreciate you for being here. Don't
forget to like and subscribe and follow us all over
the places. We appreciate that as well, and we'll catch

(57:55):
you guys next week. Take care of yourselves. Bye guys, Bye.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Bye to the do

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The Walking Dead: Dead City S2 E4 | TWDU

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Walking Dead: Dead City S2 E4 | TWDU