June 21, 2025 • 58 mins
In 12-step recovery, Step 10 offers a framework for continuous improvement by encouraging individuals to take personal inventory and make amends when necessary. This step signifies the transition from initial recovery to an ongoing, lifelong commitment to spiritual renewal and growth. Understanding Step 10 Spencer and Pat engage in a thoughtful discussion. We recognize that...
The post Lifelong Growth Through Step 10 appeared first on The Recovery Show.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Spencer (00:00):
Why do we continue to take our inventory?
What is the benefit ofpromptly admitting our errors?
Welcome to episode 435of the Recovery Show.
This episode is brought to you byVictoria, Brian Al-Anon, Elaine and David.
They use the donationbutton on our website.
Thank you, Victoria, Brian, Allen, Elaine,and David for your generous contributions.
(00:23):
This episode is for you.
We are friends and family members ofalcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness.
We who live or have lived with theseemingly hopeless problem of addiction understand as perhaps few others can.
So much depends on our ownattitudes and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery.
Pat (00:44):
Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show we represent ourselves rather than any 12 step program.
During this show, we will shareour own experiences, the opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
We hope that you'll find something inour sharing that speaks to your life.
Spencer (01:06):
My name is Spencer.
I am your host today,and joining me is Pat.
Welcome back to the Recovery Show, Pat.
Our discussion today is goingto center on step 10 of Al-Anon.
We're gonna start by reading fromchapter eight of How Al-Anon works.
The section about step 10.
(01:27):
Step 10 says, continued to takepersonal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
The first paragraph of the reading.
In the fourth step, we begin aprocess of self-examination by taking inventory of ourselves.
With the help of our higher power, wecontinued this process in subsequent steps as we tried to act upon what we had learned about ourselves, building upon our strengths and striving to be free from our shortcomings.
(01:54):
We learn to take responsibilityfor ourselves and to turn the rest over to our higher power.
For most of us, this is a cleansingand empowering experience, but it is only the beginning of a lifelong process of spiritual renewal and growth.
What does this paragraph say to you, pat?
Pat (02:12):
It just kind of brings me back to focusing on the idea of introspection.
And in doing that on a regular basis.
At this point in time, we've madeit through this huge process of step four and five and then making amends and wow, that's just so much work.
but it kind of brings us back to thebeginning of that cycle, I think for me, and when it says empowering and cleansing, I also think of really freeing.
(02:42):
I mean, I literally felt lighter,physically lighter after, I had finished my step five and then again when I finished step nine or was working on it.
It decreases that burdenI carry through the day.
That's what this whole stepcontinues to do is that it maintains that lightness in my life.
(03:04):
I don't have these heavy emotionalburdens that I'm carrying with me.
How about you, Spencer?
Spencer (03:11):
When I think about this, and I think about the grouping of the steps that we sometimes hear, steps one through three are about recognizing our problem and that there is a solution available to us.
Steps four through nine are really thework of implementing that solution.
(03:34):
And then we get to step 10.
It's like, okay, so I got allthe way through step nine.
I have found out a lotmore about who I am.
I have opened up to at leastone other person about that, and to my higher power and myself.
And then I have done the steps tostart to change myself, that's six and seven, and to do what I can to clean up the messes I've made in the past, which is steps eight and nine.
(04:05):
So I'm done.
Right?
Well, what it says here, it says thisis only the beginning of a lifelong process of spiritual renewal and growth.
Because I'm not done.
I've done the hard workto get to where I am.
But I also have to recognizethat I'm never gonna be perfect.
(04:26):
We talk about progress, notperfection is one of our slogans?
But I don't need to necessarily goback and do a full inventory, and so on, in order to keep moving forward.
Step 10 is really part of continuingto move forward, continuing to grow, spiritual renewal.
(04:47):
I like that phrase and recognizingthat, yeah, this is what I need to do for the rest of my life.
And I know I've used this analogytoo many times recently talking about this, but it's like going to the gym.
As somebody who really started makinga commitment to go to the gym recently, I know that the progress that I've made in improving my physical health, by working on strength and balance.
(05:16):
The things that I'm focusingon at this stage in my life.
There's a chart out there, you can Googleit, about how long you're expected to be able to stand on one foot at various ages.
The one that I saw went by decades.
So at like 60, I think it's 28 secondsand at 70 it's like 20 seconds.
(05:40):
I'm gonna be 70 in a couple months.
I don't like that downward slope.
That's like steep.
And when I recognize that asan older person, one of my primary risk factors is falling.
So I have to keep going to the gym orI have to keep doing some program of exercise and motion to keep my body as healthy and balanced as possible.
(06:07):
And yeah, I'm not going to get back tohow I was when I was 20, but if I don't keep going, I will keep deteriorating.
I wanna have as many yearsas I've got left in me.
And I don't want them to bemiserable, or painful or just slow.
So same thing with Al-Anon, same thingwith this process of spiritual renewal and growth that I have embarked on and that has helped me so much already.
(06:35):
I want to keep doing it andI need to keep doing it.
That was much longer than theparagraph itself, but that's what this first paragraph to me is about.
It's like, okay, you did all this work.
Don't throw it away.
Keep moving, keep doing it.
Why don't you read thesecond paragraph for us?
Pat (06:51):
Step 10 is a daily commitment to continue this healing, life affirming process.
We continue to examine ourselves and ourlives, focusing not only on our errors and shortcomings, but also on our successes, our improvements, and our gifts.
We acknowledge the areas in which we arechanging and make adjustments as we grow.
(07:12):
This process allows us toconnect, to bring ourselves more fully to our relationships.
It serves as an ongoing reminderthat we are not really so different from one another.
As we treat ourselves with honestyand compassion, we become capable of extending such treatment to others.
We recognize that change doesn'thappen overnight, and that in recovery as in much of life, we often take one step back for every two forward.
(07:43):
I really like steps 10, 11, and 12.
I've heard people say it's just amaintenance step, and that's just not what this reading is saying to me, and it's not my experience of these steps.
Life affirming.
Healing.
Looking at our successes, ourimprovements, and our gifts.
(08:06):
Bringing ourselves morefully to our relationships.
Those for me are allsteps of moving forward.
I'm gonna take a little bit of exceptionwith your story, Spencer, in that, rather than seeing myself as I move into old age as being less physically able and less
(08:26):
than, I look forward to being more mature,more responsive to people, more engaged in my relationships in really positive ways.
And I find that Step 10 is reallyabout practice makes progress.
So really good example is justhaving those hard discussions where maybe I said something that offended somebody, but I'm not sure.
(08:55):
I have a friend who's Asian.
The other day, I said something to her.
And then after the fact I thought, oh myGod, did that come across as racist or offensive, or, I was really not certain.
I know her well and Ididn't see any reaction.
In the past, before Al-Anon,I would've hidden from that.
(09:17):
I would've maybe even avoided contactwith her, but so much easier to be able to come back to her the next time I saw her within a couple days.
It's like, oh my gosh.
When I said X, Y, and Z I'mso sorry if that offended you.
I did not mean it that way.
It actually wasn't aproblem for her at all.
But the point was that I was able toleave that in that location at that time, having addressed it, rather than carrying a burden of fear and guilt and shame and anything else.
(09:53):
And then I can also say to myself,still, here's an opportunity to learn.
Here's something that I might havedone inappropriately or I would rather do differently next time.
This idea of growth and becomingthe person that I want to be.
So, I love the steps.
10 in particular because it allowsme to address these small little issues that, as the readings will say, build up over time and just
(10:21):
reaccumulate this burden of guilt andshame and hiding and fear, and instead dissipates it a little bit at a time.
Spencer (10:32):
We recognize that change doesn't happen overnight, and that in recovery as in much of life, we often take one step back for every two steps forward.
And I'm just thinking, I hopethere's at least as many steps forward as there are steps back.
And I think sometimes that's not true.
And this step gives me the opportunityto recognize, oh, I took a step backwards there, or maybe I took two or three steps backwards there.
(10:58):
I was acting out of old programs.
The sooner I can recognize that, thesooner I can, then do what I need to do to at least come back to where I was.
Okay.
There's this word daily.
I recognize that this isin a lot of the literature.
Like Step 10 is a daily inventory.
(11:19):
Well, you know what?
Step 10 doesn't say every day.
It says continued.
The AA literature in particular, whichwas the first introduction of these steps, then goes on to talk about what we do in the morning and what we do in the evening.
To me, that's the first place wherethis notion that this happens on a daily cadence, comes in, and that's basically back at the beginning.
(11:46):
I want to pull a little bit of areading in from another one of our books, which is Paths to Recovery.
The Step 10 discussion lookslike it's in the third paragraph.
The sentence says, members share thatthey find three types of inventory useful.
A spot check, a daily check-in,and a periodic long-term check.
(12:08):
A spot check can be used anytimethroughout the day when we feel that something is not right.
We can then take responsibilityimmediately on our part.
I find more often than not, that'swhere I catch myself in stepping back.
The times when I don't do that, itsometimes happens that somebody else calls me on my behavior, and then I can do the little spot check right then like, oh, okay, so you're saying I did this thing, yep, I was wrong.
(12:40):
or maybe, I had a legitimate reason fordoing what I did, but I do that check.
I could be wrong.
The other person could be wrong.
More often, seems like I'm wrong, butyou know, that's just my perspective.
So like yesterday, it is a repeatingpattern in my relationship with my wife that we do not coordinate well for breakfast and lunch.
(13:07):
And this becomes much moreobvious now that I'm retired and she's working part-time.
We might both be home at lunch orwe might not both be home at lunch.
It might be one of us ishome and the other one isn't.
We might be both out.
And also we don't get upat the same time a lot.
I tend to be an earlier riser than her,and sometimes it's several hours earlier.
(13:31):
And so when I'm getting hungry for lunch,like she just had breakfast an hour ago.
So my brain says I'm on my own for lunch.
' cause she ate or she's not home,or she might not be home, so I'm just gonna do something for lunch.
And then she says, why didn't youtell me what you were doing for lunch?
And I'm like, yeah, you're right.
(13:52):
Even if I think you're not interested.
Even if I think you might not bethere, like if I'm coming home from the gym, like yesterday I'm coming home from the gym and I stopped at a sandwich shop, got a sandwich to have for lunch and brought it home.
And she's like, why didn't youtell me you were getting that?
'cause I might've wanted one.
(14:14):
And I said, well.
I thought you just had breakfastso you wouldn't be hungry.
That's my brain being a littlebit selfish, a little bit self centered . And I said, okay, I get it.
Next time I'm gonna stop atthe sandwich shop, I will call you and see if you want one.
And you might say no.
You might say yes, but I need to do that.
(14:35):
In this case, I didn't catch it.
Okay.
I kind of did, but then my self-interestpart of my brain said, ah, it's okay.
Don't worry about it.
And then of course I got called out on it.
Sometimes it's somebodyelse, sometimes it's me.
What I'm not so good at is thisdaily thing, like at the end of the day, just taking a few moments to consider what happened today.
(15:04):
What does it say here?
Examine ourselves and our lives, focusingnot only on errors and shortcomings, but also on successes, improvements and gifts.
And usually nobody pointsout those latter ones to me.
And so it really probably wouldbenefit me to take that five minutes or 10 minutes at the end of the day to say, okay, how was today?
(15:27):
what went well, what didn't go so well?
What might I need to make amends for?
Now, as you probably know, adding anew habit to your life takes work.
There's the 30 days thing, likedo it every day for 30 days and then it starts to become a habit.
And I keep telling myself,yeah, I gotta do that.
And I don't.
(15:49):
Every now and then I like download anew app that's gonna help me do it and it doesn't . I think I need to go back to like step six and seven and say, Hey, higher power, help me with this 'cause this is not working for me.
So need to think about that.
We recognize that changedoesn't happen overnight.
I think you used that wonderful phrase.
Practice makes progress.
(16:10):
It's not practice makes perfect.
Practice makes progress.
I love it.
And with that, move on toparagraph three, which is the last paragraph in this section.
This step must be taken withsincere self-honesty, but also with great compassion.
We are doing our best.
We are human, and we willfall short of perfection.
(16:32):
Instead of justifying our mistakesand creating new sources of guilt, we can simply admit to ourselves that we were wrong.
As soon as we realize it, makingamends whenever appropriate.
It's as if we have cleaned upa badly corroded automobile.
Now we are faced with the choice ofmaintaining it and responding immediately when we see signs of new corrosion or ignoring the problem until it becomes as unbearable as it was before.
(16:58):
Step 10 allows us to maintainourselves in good working condition, free of unnecessary burdens.
And that's why I love this step.
How many times have I read this book?
I don't know.
I. Why is this rusty automobile?
This is the first time I've seen it.
This happens in the literature, youknow, when I'm reading the literature, it's like badly corroded automobile.
(17:20):
Okay.
I mean, I know about cleaning up myside of the street, but this is good because what I know is living in the rust belt as I do, once a car starts rusting, it's gonna keep on rusting.
It takes some serioussteps to reverse that.
I actually, I've only donethat really once with a car.
(17:41):
That the car was still in good shape,but the body had massive rust in spots.
I sent off, got this whole rust removal,repair, and repainting kit with the original paint color and everything.
that felt really good to be, grindingdown the old rusty bits and a couple places where I had to put on Bondo to fill in holes, and painting it, and buffing it and using like 2000 grit sandpaper to get it nice and shiny.
(18:12):
It felt good while I was doingit and I think that's the power of this analogy, right?
Is it actually feels good to startcleaning up the rusty spots in my psyche.
and then working to keepthem all new and shiny and not letting them rust back again.
How about you?
Pat (18:33):
I'm really glad you brought up different ways of doing this step.
So I'll be honest, I've tried that nightlyinventory many, many times, many times.
And the problem is, I, Ido exactly what you said.
You know, you pointed out howthat positive part about how have we improved, what are our successes, what are our talents?
(18:55):
That part, even when I acknowledge it,doing a nightly inventory, it, it just always ended up being beating up myself.
I would end up getting stomach aches overit, which is usually a cardinal sign that something's not right In Pat's world.
I have found that absolutely themost effective thing for me to do is if it's an immediate thing where I can recognize the problem is just addressing it in the moment.
(19:21):
And the more I do that, that's why Ijust love how this is a growth step.
The more I do that, the easier it becomes.
The more I do it, the more I can laughat myself when I'm doing something.
I had, oh my gosh, a situation at work,where I was called in to assist with a situation that had rather escalated.
(19:43):
I've got tons of training init and lots of experience.
The particulars of this situationwere such that I went in to talk to the escalated folks and immediately escalated myself.
(20:04):
It was mortifying.
It was so embarrassing.
I had to apologize to all of theteam members that I had gone in with and had actually said, no, my role is important in this situation.
I need to be there for this,to work with this situation.
And it was honestly purely mortifying.
(20:25):
But the beauty of it was that inthe moment, literally in the moment, I was able to say, because they objected to my behavior, you're right.
I mean, I could neverhave done this before.
Al-Anon.
You are right.
I'm raising my voice.
I'm bringing my voice down, and Ibrought my voice down and brought my voice down, and I uncrossed my arms and I stopped shaking my finger at them.
(20:49):
Well, that was the first thing I stopped.
We actually progressed to a fairly usefulconversation, which was truly, I mean, to the other people's credit as well.
Even more so after the fact.
I have a team that I work withthat all may find themselves in the same similar scenario.
(21:10):
I was able to share my story with themand say, oh, I really screwed up here.
Oh, this is what I did wrong.
Oh, I can see this is what triggered me.
I, now, I can see why I reacted andbecame very reactive in the moment.
That's night and dayfrom where I was before.
And I walked away from that not onlynot having a burden, not blaming myself for imperfection or screwing up, mortified, embarrassed, yes.
(21:41):
But also able to share what I learned withmy coworkers and laugh at myself about it, and became a tool for positivity.
That to me is the essence of step 10.
And that's in the moment.
And that takes practice.
And the beauty of it is we are in animperfect world, and we're always gonna have new opportunities for practice.
(22:03):
The other thing I find is that whensomething starts unsettling deep inside me, when I'm getting a cue that there's something, or I've pulled away and hidden about it, that's where sitting down and
letting it kind of stew inside and thenlistening to my gut, listening to my body and saying, oh, really need to think about this, then maybe a few days later.
(22:25):
But doing kind of more of a formal nightlyinventory just is not, it's not only a ineffective, it's, it's detrimental.
The other time that I findmyself really practicing it is in conflict with my spouse also.
I may personally think that 95% ofthe problem is on their side of the street, but, and when I focus on that 5% of the problem that's on my side of the street, then it changes the whole balance of the interaction.
(22:58):
I'm not even looking at what'son the other side of the street and it lets the other person start reacting to me differently.
But that's all about thepractice to progress.
I looked at that automobile and I thoughtas we move on past our initial step fours, many of us have done multiple step fours.
I think that recognizes the factthat we don't dig all the way deep.
(23:20):
we haven't tunneled to our very,very core, when we do a step four.
There's more layers to be peeled back.
And so step 10 is part of that process ofpeeling back those layers, having that aha moment somewhere in my day-to-day life.
Which is almost alwaysassociated with some form of a step 10 that's in the moment.
Spencer (23:43):
I want to pick up that automobile analogy because something happened last week, that sort of illustrated for me why, as you say, sometimes we go back and really do a searching and fearless moral inventory in step four again because.
The first time we did it, we werelooking at one layer of the onion, or you said we didn't dig deep enough.
(24:07):
We've unpeeled that layer of the onion andunderneath it is another layer and there's new stuff in there that we didn't see, or we weren't ready to see, or we weren't willing to look at the first time through.
Took one of our cars in forits regular maintenance.
And it goes in and they do a thoroughinspection of the car, including underneath the car where I don't crawl.
(24:31):
They gave me an estimate on theregularly scheduled maintenance.
Okay.
Replacing the brake fluid and doingstuff with the hybrid power system.
I don't know what, but it costsseveral hundred dollars to do.
Just to keep it like performing well.
Okay.
and they call me back and they're like,okay, your front brakes,the discs are rusted and the pads are down to three millimeters, which is pretty thin, so you really ought to replace those and your rear suspension is seized.
(25:06):
Now, I don't know how I would know that.
I mean, number one, I'm not the regulardriver of this car, but when I have driven it, like, what symptom would tell me that the rear suspension isn't working the way it's supposed to.
So that's like the deeper inventory ofthe car and it uncovers things that Yeah.
Need to be fixed, likethe brakes for sure.
(25:27):
The rear suspension, hopefully the carwill be a little more comfortable to drive and it will last longer, I'm sure.
And, and if it's all seized up, like,does that mean , if we hit a big pothole, it could break, that's not good.
But I would never have noticed thatwithout in this case, having somebody else do the inventory because I don't have the skill to do it.
I think that there probably are thingsin my life that are like that too.
(25:50):
And so yes, it is worthwhileto go back and do a deeper inventory periodically, for sure.
I wanted to read this, selectionthat you pointed out in the Courage to Change Daily Reader.
This is part of the reading forOctober 14th, which is on page 288.
(26:12):
It says, I give thanks for Step ten's,reminder that I need to continue taking personal inventory and making frequent corrections, especially in the areas where I tend to repeat my mistakes.
And then the reminder.
It is no easy task to changethe thinking of a lifetime.
Even when I'm sure that I want to change.
The 10th step allows me to be awareof sliding back into faulty thinking.
(26:36):
I don't have to abusemyself when it happens.
That doesn't help at all.
By promptly admitting when I'm wrong,I'm doing what I can to change.
And then the quote from in all ouraffairs, which is another Al-Anon reader, no longer must we accumulate burdens of guilt or resentment that will become heavier and more potent over time.
Each day, each new moment can bean opportunity to clear the air and start again fresh and free.
(27:03):
That to me really captureswhy we do this step.
Accumulate burdens of guilt; opportunityto clear the air and start again.
I mean, that's why I love thisstep because it lets me keep that stuff from weighing me down.
I don't have to carry it.
Any thoughts on that reading?
Pat (27:24):
It's no easy task change thinking of a lifetime.
That is so true.
A lot of the benefit of the program isthat we're able to recognize those things.
We've worked with our sponsors and we'veworked up to the step, and so we're much more able to recognize our faulty thinking and that sets us up for success with addressing situations like that.
(27:52):
Or, stopping the slide just a couplefeet down that slope, instead of going down a steep drop, Not having to abuse ourself when it happens.
I, I hear that kind of as atheme through here, which is, not striving for perfection.
Another reading from Courage to Change.
page 2 36.
(28:14):
I developed a tremendousfear of making mistakes.
It seemed crucial to cover every possibleoutcome because mistakes often led to an avalanche of accusations and abuse from the alcoholic, and eventually from myself.
My self-esteem diminishedbecause the slightest error felt huge and I couldn't let it go.
So I began to cover up andrationalize my mistakes, all the while desperately trying to maintain an appearance of perfect self-control.
(28:43):
In Al-Anon, I learned to takedown that rigid wall of seeming perfection to honestly admit mistakes and to open myself for growth.
Step 10 in which I continue to takingmy inventory and promptly admit when I am wrong, has been liberating because it challenges me daily, to be honest.
Sometimes it makes me squirm, but Iknow that when I tell the truth, I'm free of the lies that held me back.
(29:08):
As Mark Twain put it, if youtell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.
Today's reminder, I will probably make amistake of some sort every day of my life.
If I view this as a personal failing orpretend that no mistakes have occurred.
I make my life unmanageable whenI stop struggling to be perfect and admit that I am wrong.
(29:31):
I can let go of guilt and shame.
That is cause for rejoicing.
Quote, help them to take failure,not as a measure of their worth, but as a chance for a new start.
That really speaks to my personalexperience with being in an alcoholic relationship, was that perfectionism that I felt I had to strive for and, and the tying together of self-esteem with that.
(29:59):
My self-esteem was so poor that anythingthat I perceived, it wasn't even necessarily a criticism, but I perceived as a criticism would throw me into a, just a complete reaction of fear.
And ultimately I felt unlovable.
It was a really deep, dark place to be.
(30:22):
To no longer react to any imperfection,whether I perceived it or somebody else did, and I think I was probably often my own harshest critic, it really is cause for rejoicing.
So I think for people who are justbeginning to work through this program or who are listening to this podcast, nowhere near step 10, or having
(30:46):
practiced a lot of these behaviors,they do come to fruition that, that slow little, tiny bit at a time.
This is such a hopeful, positivestep because your life comes to a place where, it's no longer such a lonely, sad, dark place.
(31:06):
It's one of positivity.
I don't know if I've told this storybefore, but long ago I was in a work situation where they had done personality inventories and they split us up into groups and then they put
the word conflict on a whiteboard,and the two different groups had to write how they reacted to that or what they thought about the word conflict.
(31:30):
Probably about a thirdof the group was with me.
And our reaction was, I mean, Iliterally was in tears, in tears with that folded arms, super tense.
We came up with maybe three things tosay about it, and all of it was awful.
And then we shared our responsesand Spencer, you're nodding like, you know the results of this.
(31:52):
So over on the other side of the room.
Somebody had said opportunity for growth.
And I was like, are you out of your mind?
How can that be an opportunity for growth?
Oh my gosh.
so that, that to me is reallyemblematic of the difference between pre Al-Anon, early Al-Anon and moving into this place where we have a step 10 and it's so okay to not be perfect.
(32:22):
It's so okay to say, I even madea bad mistake, I'm sorry, I'm gonna change things from here on.
You know, we've just finished step nineof making amends, but you know, in step 10 we haven't really mentioned this.
You do make amends whereverappropriate, and those amends don't have to be huge things.
(32:43):
They can be very simple as longas they're heartfelt and they are done with intent for change.
As long as we're doing that, then we'recontinuing to grow or continuing to practice better growthful behavior.
Do you have any thoughtson that reading Spencer?
Spencer (33:01):
You've covered it pretty well.
One of the things that I was thinkingabout, and none of these readings have really touched on it or developed it anyway, is the way in which I have come to recognize practicing step 10 as, an encapsulation of the first nine steps.
(33:22):
Just briefly, so I do something andI recognize at some point, maybe not right away, oh, I made a mistake here.
I can actually apply all of the firstnine steps because first thing is recognizing that this thing happened.
(33:44):
I did this thing.
I cannot change the factthat I did this thing.
I am powerless over thefact that it happened.
Okay?
That's step one, right?
The next two steps tell me that,hey, I don't have to fix this alone.
I can reach out and ask for help fromwhatever manifestation of my higher power is available to me at the moment.
(34:08):
I probably wanna take a littlebit of time looking at what I was feeling, what was I reacting to?
Because very often when I act inerror, it's because I'm reacting to something that maybe I didn't consciously recognize at the time.
That's step four work, for me.
Let's do an inventory onthis thing that happened.
(34:30):
Let's take our why's and dig in a littlebit or however, however, you know, you do to, to start to look at not just what happened, but what was going on in me as the phrase have, what was my part, right?
I might then wanna share it with anotherperson, maybe to get another perspective on it, or just because when I just hold it inside myself, things don't go as well as they could a lot of the time.
(34:56):
Definitely share it with myselfand my higher power, at least.
That's step five.
In that step four action, in thatinventory action, I have recognized maybe an underlying, shortcoming or character defect or character trait, that is not serving me well and I can become willing to change.
Step six.
(35:17):
I can ask for help froma higher power to change.
Step seven.
If I hurt somebody, then I need tounderstand who I hurt and how I hurt them.
Step eight.
So that I can make appropriate amends.
Apology, changing behavior, whateverit needs to be in step nine.
Sometimes this whole process takesa few minutes, sometimes it takes a day, sometimes it takes longer.
(35:46):
It's kinda like everything up tothis point can get packed into step 10, so that I don't have to go back and do the big thing.
I can just do the small thing.
and you know, I did not understandwhat people meant when they said, yeah, I worked the steps on that problem.
And this is my understanding ofhow I have come to do exactly that work, the steps on a problem.
(36:14):
That gets me to a point whereI have a path of progress, to go forward in my life.
This step is what keepsme from having to go back.
We'll take a little break, and thenwe'll come back and talk about our lives in recovery, about how recovery is working in our lives today.
(36:34):
Pat, you chose some songs.
What's the first one?
Pat (36:39):
The first song is Grow As We Go.
It's by Alex Hope, BenAbraham and Ben Platt.
And I believe the video wehave is performed by Ben Platt.
I was in a particular mood when I waschoosing songs and I think I was really in a mood of one of growing together.
(36:59):
in Grow as we go, there's alsoreally nice video with dancing.
And the dancing kind of saysto me conflict and then conflict resolution and people moving together.
He says, who said it's true that thegrowing only happens on your own?
In the song, there seemed to bechallenging, a partner who wants to leave and says, I gotta do this work myself, and I think I have to do it alone.
(37:24):
And he says, who said it's true thatthe growing only happens on your own and then admits their own part in it?
I am unfinished.
I have so much left to learn.
I don't know who we'll become.
I can promise it's not written inthe stars, but I believe that when it's done, we're gonna see that it was better that we grew up together.
(37:46):
You can change right next to me.
When you are high, I'll take the lows.
You can ebb and I can flow.
We'll take it slow and grow as we go.
That really felt like Al-Anon to me.
feels like we're not alone.
We don't have to try tolive this life by ourselves.
(38:07):
We don't have to try to make it throughour ebbs and flows by ourselves.
We can share that journey with otherpeople and grow and it just kind of says, yeah, we don't know where we're gonna end up, but we can do it together as a group and as co-supporters and co-growers.
Spencer (38:33):
In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery.
How have we experienced recovery recently?
One of the things that has come up for merecently, I've talked, probably a lot, in this section of the podcast about working with the teens in my church community.
I've been in different rolesover the last decade and a half, more or less, maybe even longer.
(39:00):
My goodness.
In the last couple of years, Ihave been a co-advisor for, our 10th through 12th grade group.
A couple of weeks ago, the personwho was the lead advisor, said to me, this is my last year.
And she didn't say it, butmy brain said, okay, Spencer, you're gonna have to step up.
(39:27):
Part of me, the self-centeredselfish part of me says, I don't wanna do all that work.
And another part of me says, but youknow, you can, you've done it before and you really enjoy working with these kids.
And apparently they honor the fact thatI and my fellow advisors are there.
(39:49):
They actually said this explicitlyto the entire congregation a few weeks ago, when the teen group gets to lead one service each year.
At the end they said some words about theadvisors, about how we are there for them.
And, and we see them.
It brought tears to my eyes, justlike, I didn't know you felt this way.
And maybe I should have, but I didn't.
(40:10):
and getting that explicit verbalrecognition was really big.
I have not yet gone to the personin charge of the program to say, I will step up and be the lead advisor since my friend has stepped back.
Because I wanted to makesure that I could do it.
I would say that the way this connectsfor me, to my whole recovery program is this more intentional way of making decisions about what I say yes to and what I say no to, because there are other
(40:44):
things I've been asked to do and I havesaid no, I do not have the time, the energy, the bandwidth to do that along with the other things that I'm doing.
It's not that I wouldn't want to,under other circumstances, I can't make the commitment to that along with the other things that I'm doing and give them what I need to give.
(41:04):
That has come directly out of the thingsthat I learned in Al-Anon about growing out of my codependent behavior that would have me say yes to everything.
So using these principles in all myaffairs, that's one of the places that came up for me recently.
How about you?
Pat (41:22):
A couple different things.
I have been really struggling.
I think I spoke a little bit agoabout losing my sponsor to dementia.
So I've been struggling still withsetting time aside for meetings.
I'm still working full-time.
in getting ready for this particularpodcast, I was like, oh, okay.
(41:42):
I think I can.
Oftentimes I schedule on myweekday days off, just social time.
And I think if I just put in the Al-Anonmeetings into my calendar first, then I can smoosh the social time around it.
I think that might work.
Doing the podcast has actually beenreally positive and beneficial for me.
A way of kind of stepping up mygame and stepping back into the program, being more thoughtful about it and deliberate about it.
(42:09):
Intentional as you would say.
The other thing, is that I made somenot so great financial choices recently.
One of which was to trust the system andnot bother to look at my bank accounts on a regular basis or balance my checkbook.
I had enough in there kind of know howmuch I'm gonna need and how much I'm getting from my paycheck and didn't really have to worry about watching every penny.
(42:35):
I went to my bank and took out somecash recently and went, oh my gosh.
The account balance was far lowerthan I thought it should have been.
It was right after a paycheck and,realized that somebody had been making false charges on my account to the tune of some pretty hefty numbers, like in the thousands.
(42:59):
and wow, Al-Anon is all over how Imanaged that whole situation because I, I can't even, I think I would've just freaked out in the past.
The tools that I used were recognizingmy feelings that I was having at the moment, which of course, were not really fantastic or super happy, but recognizing them.
(43:20):
Acknowledging them.
Recognizing my powerlessness.
I mean, at the moment,it had already been done.
Okay.
So all I have from hereis to move forward.
It just was not gonna do me anygood to try to rant and rave about something I was powerless over.
So making my choices about where Iwas gonna move forward from there.
And putting things in perspective.
(43:41):
Holy cow.
I just had a friendthis week die from ALS.
and I'm looking around me living inan urban environment, and all of the people who are unhoused and don't have enough food and all of the changes to the social support system.
I don't have those concerns.
(44:02):
I had enough bandwidth that it took awhile before I even it recognized that this is a serious problem in my account.
So putting it all in perspective, havinggratitude for my health, having gratitude for the things I have in my life that allow me to live a fairly comfortable
(44:24):
life and focus on becoming the personI wanna be instead of focusing on where is my next meal or, you know, where am I gonna have shelter tonight when I sleep?
Really has allowed me to just managethis whole situation fairly well.
My husband was helping me out withsituations and another Al-Anon tool I was able to use was, okay, he's being a little tiny bit irritating in this scenario, but 98% really super helpful with some really good ideas.
(44:53):
I was able to be open to hearingwhat he had to say instead of just shutting him down inside my head.
All in all, I have to say, I have a lot tobe grateful for, and it was a big hiccup.
I may or may not get that money back.
We'll see what Visa has to say.
So Al-Anon was really pretty helpfulthis week in my world and certainly kept me from some really extreme reactions or maybe unuseful behavior or even unkind behavior to my partner.
Spencer (45:27):
that's sort of a nightmare scenario, really.
Pat (45:31):
yeah.
Spencer (45:31):
I don't know if I would've handled it that well.
Let's look forward in the podcast.
We're almost through our series on thesteps, we have steps 11 and 12 remaining.
I already have a guest linedup to talk about step 11.
We welcome your thoughts.
You can always join our conversation,leave us a voicemail or send us an email with your feedback or your questions.
(45:56):
And Pat, how can people do that?
Pat (45:59):
Oh, you can send a voice memo or email to feedback at the recovery dot show, or if you prefer, you can call and leave us a voicemail, 7 3 4 7 0 7 8 7 9 5.
You can also use the voicemailbutton on the website to join the conversation from your computer.
We'd love to hear from you.
(46:20):
Share your experience, strength, andhope, or your questions about today's topic of Step 10 or any of our upcoming topics, including steps 11 and 12.
If you have a topic you'd likeus to talk about, let us know.
If you would like advance notice forsome of our topics so that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback at the recovery dot show.
(46:45):
Put email in the subject lineand that makes it easier to spot.
Spencer, where can our listeners findout more about the recovery show?
Spencer (46:54):
Hey, that would be on our website, the recovery dot show, where we have all the information that's available about the show.
Mostly that's notes for eachepisode, which will include links to the books that we read from, videos for the music that we chose.
And also you can find there aresome links to other recovery podcasts and websites that we like.
(47:18):
A little bit more of podcast news.
as you have probably heard, if you'vebeen listening recently, I will be going to the AA International Convention up in Vancouver at the beginning of July.
That means I'm actually gonna be awayfrom home for a couple of weeks, and that will very likely have an impact on the publication schedule for the podcast.
(47:42):
I have dreams of maybe doing somereporting directly from the convention, but we'll see how that works out.
And then I'm gonna be on a cruisewith limited internet access.
So anyway, we'll see what happens.
I'm hoping to meet severalpeople have written to me and said, yeah, I'm gonna be there.
Let's figure out how to meet up.
I think it'll be a lot offun, and a lot of recovery.
(48:06):
Our second musical selection,which again, is available on the website at the recovery show slash 4 35, is by Elton John.
And you're probably gonna guesswhen you heard the name Elton John, but the title of the song is, Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word.
Which just feels like ittotally relates to this step.
You know, when we werewrong, promptly admitted it.
(48:29):
The sentiment there is.
It's hard to say, I'm sorry.
I screwed up.
we're broken up and I'm findingit hard to say, I'm sorry.
Or maybe we broke up becauseI couldn't say, I'm sorry.
A number of differentways to read that song.
(48:52):
I always love to hear from you.
I've heard from a number of peoplewho are planning to be at the AA International Convention in Vancouver.
Making tentative plans tomeet up at the convention.
Again, if you're planning to goand you haven't sent me an email at feedback at the recovery dot show, please do because I'd love to meet you.
(49:15):
I got an email from an anonymouslistener who writes, hi Spencer.
Thank you so much for the recovery show.
I have participated in theAl-Anon Fellowship for 17 years.
Your podcast is like a healthy meetingaccessible to everyone, especially those who are curious, yet not ready to attend a Zoom or in person Al-Anon meeting.
In my work as a therapist, Ioften refer people to your podcast as well as to Al-Anon dot org.
(49:39):
I'm just gonna pause here andsay, wow, thank you for that.
The listener continues.
The episode on step ninewas helpful and thorough.
Just one glitch.
The second audio recording of Heather'sexperience with Step nine repeated the story of her attempt to make amends to her ex-boyfriend, rather than listeners hearing her amends to her sister.
I don't know if you can edit itnow that it's already published, but just wanted to let you know.
(50:03):
Again, thank you so much for your service.
Gratefully Anonymous.
This came in very shortly after thestep nine episode had been published, and I immediately went and fixed the audio, put the correct share from Heather in there and uploaded it again.
For people whose podcast app hadalready downloaded the wrong episode, I made a post titled fixed, that would cause the new one to be downloaded.
(50:30):
If you've listened and it's fixedbecause it is fixed in the original episode, now, then no need to worry.
And in fact, I will, in the nextfew days, I will go and remove the fixed episode because it probably will no longer be necessary.
In the last episode, I included a voicememo from Esther about sponsorship and some of the challenges she was having.
(50:51):
I suggested that she might lookfor a sponsor at an online meeting.
She wrote back, said, hi, Spencer.
Thanks so much for yourreply and your suggestions.
My former sponsor alwayssaid, a sponsorship relation works better face-to-face.
While it is true that in-personcommunication has a closeness that online communication may lack, I agree with you that we are lucky to live
(51:13):
in a time in which we can connectwith fellows in other parts of the world, and that gives us more choices.
Now I am trying out different onlinemeetings and listening with an open mind to try and discern what kind of sponsor my higher power wants me to work with.
I'm looking forward to hearing otherlisteners experience with sponsorship.
Greetings from Germany, Esther.
Thank you, Esther, for responding.
(51:35):
And I totally agree that in myexperience, sponsorship very likely works better face to face.
However, sometimes that's not possibleand I'm actually currently sponsoring somebody who's six times zones away from me and we're doing okay.
I might send out a email tothe mailing list asking for experience with online sponsorship.
(51:58):
It's not a totally new thing.
I know people whose maincontact with their sponsor for years has been on the phone.
The use of remote meeting tools suchas Zoom probably increased the number of people who have sponsors that they don't or can't meet face to face with and be great to hear that experience.
Nancy wrote, hi Spencer.
I had the pleasure of doing ashow with you on whether the alcoholic is drinking or not.
(52:23):
Episode 377.
I listen to your podcast all the time andjust heard the last episode on step nine.
I had a very interesting experiencewith making amends to my husband and loved one just this past weekend.
After being in Al-Anon for 30years and working this program, I still got backed up against a wall and lied to both of them.
(52:43):
Thank God for the program becauseat another time I would've kept up this behavior and both my spouse and son would've suffered along with me.
There are no mistakes, only lessons.
The 10th step played right into what tookplace, and I promptly admitted my wrongs.
I was able to clear thedecks and come clean.
It was freeing and humbling, especiallyfor someone in the program for so long.
(53:06):
You would've thought that I was not asconcerned with what my husband thought of me, people pleasing 1 0 1 and felt better about myself with far more self-worth.
I find that this is something that canbe discussed at an episode on step 10, continuing to take personal inventory and promptly admitting it, but at what cost.
No matter our age, maturity,confidence, how difficult is it to work this step in a healthy way?
(53:29):
I would love to do anotherepisode with you and explore this.
I know you're doing step 10 now, andhaving just experienced an aha moment with step nine I am worth learning about.
It is ongoing that I trust that I willuncover whatever I need to know for now.
It is all about love, forgiveness, andunderstanding, and taking a personal inventory involves all those qualities.
(53:51):
Best to you and hope tohear from you, Nancy.
I invited Nancy to join me for anepisode, so we'll see when that happens.
Valerie wrote, hi Spencer.
The fact that I am actually finallyreaching out to you is a true testament to my progress in recovery.
You have been a part of my activerecovery program since early 2023, and I can't imagine where I would be without your voice and the experience, strength, and hope of you and your guests in my ears on a regular basis.
(54:20):
Until now, I was certain thatI had nothing new or novel that would be worth sharing on such a large platform as your podcast.
And since I listen while taking longwalks, I have never been at my computer to act on my frequent desire to reach out and simply say I enjoyed the episodes.
So why now?
Because I just finished listeningto episode 4 34 on step nine, and I realized that Step 10 is next.
(54:43):
Ironically, my husband and I did a Step10 today as part of our couples 12 step program in recovering couples anonymous, RCA, and I have only heard you mention RCA in one episode along the way.
So I thought perhaps there may beinterest in discussing RCA in more detail, or at least about the role it has played in my active recovery journey.
(55:05):
And if you already have a speakerlined up for step 10, perhaps step 12 would be an alternative opportunity to speak about practicing both Al-Anon and RCA in all my affairs.
Keep up the amazing work you aredoing to create hope for so many who may feel their situation is hopeless.
How grateful I am to know I am not alone.
Sincerely, Valerie.
And again, I wrote back to Valerieand invited her to, schedule a time to talk about step 12.
(55:31):
So that will be coming.
That is your feedback for today.
Keep those letters and voicemails coming.
Pat, I want to thank you for joiningme today for our dive into step 10.
And you've got one more song.
Pat (55:50):
It's this really cool song by Melissa Etheridge,.
It's called Gently We Row.
God, what a cool song.
And it feels very Stepten-ish, in a lot of ways.
but it's again, kind of goesback to the, some of the same thoughts with the first song.
It's her journey and she moves frombeing alone, looking to the outside for answers and then finding herself.
(56:19):
And in finding herself, then she'sable to row slowly, gently row her way down her life's passage in a river.
The other thing I love that shedoes, and that just feels very Al-Anon, is that she takes what she was given and improves on it.
So in the analogy she says, she askedher mother for advice and her mother drew a room and just said to her, turn off the light when you leave.
(56:48):
But when her daughter asks her,she, for her daughter, draws a door and a key and says, when you're ready, I get choked up on this song.
When you're ready, come find me.
And then they rowtogether down the stream.
It's a gentle row.
It's a gentle progression.
(57:09):
It's becoming who you're goingto become together as a team.
And then she speaks aboutillusions as being your life.
So you start with yourlife as an illusion.
And then she says, I won't complicatemy daughter's illusions with mine.
So I just love that too.
I love that she's making choices not toput her issues onto her daughter and let her daughter discover her own path, but at the same time is on that path with her as they rode gently down the river.
(57:46):
It's a gentle program, and that'ssomething I've heard so many times.
I think Spencer, you'vesaid it many times, is that Al-Anon is a gentle program.
It's a gentle program of lovingourselves, of being compassionate.
There's a lot of compassion thatwas mentioned in the Step 10 readings, and it requires a huge amount of compassion for ourselves.
(58:09):
One of 'em mentions that as we becomemore compassionate for ourselves, then we're able to be compassionate for others.
This song was a real gem andI had not heard it before, but I'm really glad I found it.
Spencer (58:29):
Thank you for listening and please keep coming back.
Whatever your problems, there arethose among us who have had them too.
If we did not talk about a problem you arefacing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode.
May understanding, love and peacegrow in you one day at a time.
Why do we continue to take our inventory?
What is the benefit ofpromptly admitting our errors?
Welcome to episode 435of the Recovery Show.
This episode is brought to you byVictoria, Brian Al-Anon, Elaine and David.
They use the donationbutton on our website.
Thank you, Victoria, Brian, Allen, Elaine,and David for your generous contributions.
(00:23):
This episode is for you.
We are friends and family members ofalcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness.
We who live or have lived with theseemingly hopeless problem of addiction understand as perhaps few others can.
So much depends on our ownattitudes and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery.
Pat (00:44):
Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show we represent ourselves rather than any 12 step program.
During this show, we will shareour own experiences, the opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
We hope that you'll find something inour sharing that speaks to your life.
Spencer (01:06):
My name is Spencer.
I am your host today,and joining me is Pat.
Welcome back to the Recovery Show, Pat.
Our discussion today is goingto center on step 10 of Al-Anon.
We're gonna start by reading fromchapter eight of How Al-Anon works.
The section about step 10.
(01:27):
Step 10 says, continued to takepersonal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
The first paragraph of the reading.
In the fourth step, we begin aprocess of self-examination by taking inventory of ourselves.
With the help of our higher power, wecontinued this process in subsequent steps as we tried to act upon what we had learned about ourselves, building upon our strengths and striving to be free from our shortcomings.
(01:54):
We learn to take responsibilityfor ourselves and to turn the rest over to our higher power.
For most of us, this is a cleansingand empowering experience, but it is only the beginning of a lifelong process of spiritual renewal and growth.
What does this paragraph say to you, pat?
Pat (02:12):
It just kind of brings me back to focusing on the idea of introspection.
And in doing that on a regular basis.
At this point in time, we've madeit through this huge process of step four and five and then making amends and wow, that's just so much work.
but it kind of brings us back to thebeginning of that cycle, I think for me, and when it says empowering and cleansing, I also think of really freeing.
(02:42):
I mean, I literally felt lighter,physically lighter after, I had finished my step five and then again when I finished step nine or was working on it.
It decreases that burdenI carry through the day.
That's what this whole stepcontinues to do is that it maintains that lightness in my life.
(03:04):
I don't have these heavy emotionalburdens that I'm carrying with me.
How about you, Spencer?
Spencer (03:11):
When I think about this, and I think about the grouping of the steps that we sometimes hear, steps one through three are about recognizing our problem and that there is a solution available to us.
Steps four through nine are really thework of implementing that solution.
(03:34):
And then we get to step 10.
It's like, okay, so I got allthe way through step nine.
I have found out a lotmore about who I am.
I have opened up to at leastone other person about that, and to my higher power and myself.
And then I have done the steps tostart to change myself, that's six and seven, and to do what I can to clean up the messes I've made in the past, which is steps eight and nine.
(04:05):
So I'm done.
Right?
Well, what it says here, it says thisis only the beginning of a lifelong process of spiritual renewal and growth.
Because I'm not done.
I've done the hard workto get to where I am.
But I also have to recognizethat I'm never gonna be perfect.
(04:26):
We talk about progress, notperfection is one of our slogans?
But I don't need to necessarily goback and do a full inventory, and so on, in order to keep moving forward.
Step 10 is really part of continuingto move forward, continuing to grow, spiritual renewal.
(04:47):
I like that phrase and recognizingthat, yeah, this is what I need to do for the rest of my life.
And I know I've used this analogytoo many times recently talking about this, but it's like going to the gym.
As somebody who really started makinga commitment to go to the gym recently, I know that the progress that I've made in improving my physical health, by working on strength and balance.
(05:16):
The things that I'm focusingon at this stage in my life.
There's a chart out there, you can Googleit, about how long you're expected to be able to stand on one foot at various ages.
The one that I saw went by decades.
So at like 60, I think it's 28 secondsand at 70 it's like 20 seconds.
(05:40):
I'm gonna be 70 in a couple months.
I don't like that downward slope.
That's like steep.
And when I recognize that asan older person, one of my primary risk factors is falling.
So I have to keep going to the gym orI have to keep doing some program of exercise and motion to keep my body as healthy and balanced as possible.
(06:07):
And yeah, I'm not going to get back tohow I was when I was 20, but if I don't keep going, I will keep deteriorating.
I wanna have as many yearsas I've got left in me.
And I don't want them to bemiserable, or painful or just slow.
So same thing with Al-Anon, same thingwith this process of spiritual renewal and growth that I have embarked on and that has helped me so much already.
(06:35):
I want to keep doing it andI need to keep doing it.
That was much longer than theparagraph itself, but that's what this first paragraph to me is about.
It's like, okay, you did all this work.
Don't throw it away.
Keep moving, keep doing it.
Why don't you read thesecond paragraph for us?
Pat (06:51):
Step 10 is a daily commitment to continue this healing, life affirming process.
We continue to examine ourselves and ourlives, focusing not only on our errors and shortcomings, but also on our successes, our improvements, and our gifts.
We acknowledge the areas in which we arechanging and make adjustments as we grow.
(07:12):
This process allows us toconnect, to bring ourselves more fully to our relationships.
It serves as an ongoing reminderthat we are not really so different from one another.
As we treat ourselves with honestyand compassion, we become capable of extending such treatment to others.
We recognize that change doesn'thappen overnight, and that in recovery as in much of life, we often take one step back for every two forward.
(07:43):
I really like steps 10, 11, and 12.
I've heard people say it's just amaintenance step, and that's just not what this reading is saying to me, and it's not my experience of these steps.
Life affirming.
Healing.
Looking at our successes, ourimprovements, and our gifts.
(08:06):
Bringing ourselves morefully to our relationships.
Those for me are allsteps of moving forward.
I'm gonna take a little bit of exceptionwith your story, Spencer, in that, rather than seeing myself as I move into old age as being less physically able and less
(08:26):
than, I look forward to being more mature,more responsive to people, more engaged in my relationships in really positive ways.
And I find that Step 10 is reallyabout practice makes progress.
So really good example is justhaving those hard discussions where maybe I said something that offended somebody, but I'm not sure.
(08:55):
I have a friend who's Asian.
The other day, I said something to her.
And then after the fact I thought, oh myGod, did that come across as racist or offensive, or, I was really not certain.
I know her well and Ididn't see any reaction.
In the past, before Al-Anon,I would've hidden from that.
(09:17):
I would've maybe even avoided contactwith her, but so much easier to be able to come back to her the next time I saw her within a couple days.
It's like, oh my gosh.
When I said X, Y, and Z I'mso sorry if that offended you.
I did not mean it that way.
It actually wasn't aproblem for her at all.
But the point was that I was able toleave that in that location at that time, having addressed it, rather than carrying a burden of fear and guilt and shame and anything else.
(09:53):
And then I can also say to myself,still, here's an opportunity to learn.
Here's something that I might havedone inappropriately or I would rather do differently next time.
This idea of growth and becomingthe person that I want to be.
So, I love the steps.
10 in particular because it allowsme to address these small little issues that, as the readings will say, build up over time and just
(10:21):
reaccumulate this burden of guilt andshame and hiding and fear, and instead dissipates it a little bit at a time.
Spencer (10:32):
We recognize that change doesn't happen overnight, and that in recovery as in much of life, we often take one step back for every two steps forward.
And I'm just thinking, I hopethere's at least as many steps forward as there are steps back.
And I think sometimes that's not true.
And this step gives me the opportunityto recognize, oh, I took a step backwards there, or maybe I took two or three steps backwards there.
(10:58):
I was acting out of old programs.
The sooner I can recognize that, thesooner I can, then do what I need to do to at least come back to where I was.
Okay.
There's this word daily.
I recognize that this isin a lot of the literature.
Like Step 10 is a daily inventory.
(11:19):
Well, you know what?
Step 10 doesn't say every day.
It says continued.
The AA literature in particular, whichwas the first introduction of these steps, then goes on to talk about what we do in the morning and what we do in the evening.
To me, that's the first place wherethis notion that this happens on a daily cadence, comes in, and that's basically back at the beginning.
(11:46):
I want to pull a little bit of areading in from another one of our books, which is Paths to Recovery.
The Step 10 discussion lookslike it's in the third paragraph.
The sentence says, members share thatthey find three types of inventory useful.
A spot check, a daily check-in,and a periodic long-term check.
(12:08):
A spot check can be used anytimethroughout the day when we feel that something is not right.
We can then take responsibilityimmediately on our part.
I find more often than not, that'swhere I catch myself in stepping back.
The times when I don't do that, itsometimes happens that somebody else calls me on my behavior, and then I can do the little spot check right then like, oh, okay, so you're saying I did this thing, yep, I was wrong.
(12:40):
or maybe, I had a legitimate reason fordoing what I did, but I do that check.
I could be wrong.
The other person could be wrong.
More often, seems like I'm wrong, butyou know, that's just my perspective.
So like yesterday, it is a repeatingpattern in my relationship with my wife that we do not coordinate well for breakfast and lunch.
(13:07):
And this becomes much moreobvious now that I'm retired and she's working part-time.
We might both be home at lunch orwe might not both be home at lunch.
It might be one of us ishome and the other one isn't.
We might be both out.
And also we don't get upat the same time a lot.
I tend to be an earlier riser than her,and sometimes it's several hours earlier.
(13:31):
And so when I'm getting hungry for lunch,like she just had breakfast an hour ago.
So my brain says I'm on my own for lunch.
' cause she ate or she's not home,or she might not be home, so I'm just gonna do something for lunch.
And then she says, why didn't youtell me what you were doing for lunch?
And I'm like, yeah, you're right.
(13:52):
Even if I think you're not interested.
Even if I think you might not bethere, like if I'm coming home from the gym, like yesterday I'm coming home from the gym and I stopped at a sandwich shop, got a sandwich to have for lunch and brought it home.
And she's like, why didn't youtell me you were getting that?
'cause I might've wanted one.
(14:14):
And I said, well.
I thought you just had breakfastso you wouldn't be hungry.
That's my brain being a littlebit selfish, a little bit self centered . And I said, okay, I get it.
Next time I'm gonna stop atthe sandwich shop, I will call you and see if you want one.
And you might say no.
You might say yes, but I need to do that.
(14:35):
In this case, I didn't catch it.
Okay.
I kind of did, but then my self-interestpart of my brain said, ah, it's okay.
Don't worry about it.
And then of course I got called out on it.
Sometimes it's somebodyelse, sometimes it's me.
What I'm not so good at is thisdaily thing, like at the end of the day, just taking a few moments to consider what happened today.
(15:04):
What does it say here?
Examine ourselves and our lives, focusingnot only on errors and shortcomings, but also on successes, improvements and gifts.
And usually nobody pointsout those latter ones to me.
And so it really probably wouldbenefit me to take that five minutes or 10 minutes at the end of the day to say, okay, how was today?
(15:27):
what went well, what didn't go so well?
What might I need to make amends for?
Now, as you probably know, adding anew habit to your life takes work.
There's the 30 days thing, likedo it every day for 30 days and then it starts to become a habit.
And I keep telling myself,yeah, I gotta do that.
And I don't.
(15:49):
Every now and then I like download anew app that's gonna help me do it and it doesn't . I think I need to go back to like step six and seven and say, Hey, higher power, help me with this 'cause this is not working for me.
So need to think about that.
We recognize that changedoesn't happen overnight.
I think you used that wonderful phrase.
Practice makes progress.
(16:10):
It's not practice makes perfect.
Practice makes progress.
I love it.
And with that, move on toparagraph three, which is the last paragraph in this section.
This step must be taken withsincere self-honesty, but also with great compassion.
We are doing our best.
We are human, and we willfall short of perfection.
(16:32):
Instead of justifying our mistakesand creating new sources of guilt, we can simply admit to ourselves that we were wrong.
As soon as we realize it, makingamends whenever appropriate.
It's as if we have cleaned upa badly corroded automobile.
Now we are faced with the choice ofmaintaining it and responding immediately when we see signs of new corrosion or ignoring the problem until it becomes as unbearable as it was before.
(16:58):
Step 10 allows us to maintainourselves in good working condition, free of unnecessary burdens.
And that's why I love this step.
How many times have I read this book?
I don't know.
I. Why is this rusty automobile?
This is the first time I've seen it.
This happens in the literature, youknow, when I'm reading the literature, it's like badly corroded automobile.
(17:20):
Okay.
I mean, I know about cleaning up myside of the street, but this is good because what I know is living in the rust belt as I do, once a car starts rusting, it's gonna keep on rusting.
It takes some serioussteps to reverse that.
I actually, I've only donethat really once with a car.
(17:41):
That the car was still in good shape,but the body had massive rust in spots.
I sent off, got this whole rust removal,repair, and repainting kit with the original paint color and everything.
that felt really good to be, grindingdown the old rusty bits and a couple places where I had to put on Bondo to fill in holes, and painting it, and buffing it and using like 2000 grit sandpaper to get it nice and shiny.
(18:12):
It felt good while I was doingit and I think that's the power of this analogy, right?
Is it actually feels good to startcleaning up the rusty spots in my psyche.
and then working to keepthem all new and shiny and not letting them rust back again.
How about you?
Pat (18:33):
I'm really glad you brought up different ways of doing this step.
So I'll be honest, I've tried that nightlyinventory many, many times, many times.
And the problem is, I, Ido exactly what you said.
You know, you pointed out howthat positive part about how have we improved, what are our successes, what are our talents?
(18:55):
That part, even when I acknowledge it,doing a nightly inventory, it, it just always ended up being beating up myself.
I would end up getting stomach aches overit, which is usually a cardinal sign that something's not right In Pat's world.
I have found that absolutely themost effective thing for me to do is if it's an immediate thing where I can recognize the problem is just addressing it in the moment.
(19:21):
And the more I do that, that's why Ijust love how this is a growth step.
The more I do that, the easier it becomes.
The more I do it, the more I can laughat myself when I'm doing something.
I had, oh my gosh, a situation at work,where I was called in to assist with a situation that had rather escalated.
(19:43):
I've got tons of training init and lots of experience.
The particulars of this situationwere such that I went in to talk to the escalated folks and immediately escalated myself.
(20:04):
It was mortifying.
It was so embarrassing.
I had to apologize to all of theteam members that I had gone in with and had actually said, no, my role is important in this situation.
I need to be there for this,to work with this situation.
And it was honestly purely mortifying.
(20:25):
But the beauty of it was that inthe moment, literally in the moment, I was able to say, because they objected to my behavior, you're right.
I mean, I could neverhave done this before.
Al-Anon.
You are right.
I'm raising my voice.
I'm bringing my voice down, and Ibrought my voice down and brought my voice down, and I uncrossed my arms and I stopped shaking my finger at them.
(20:49):
Well, that was the first thing I stopped.
We actually progressed to a fairly usefulconversation, which was truly, I mean, to the other people's credit as well.
Even more so after the fact.
I have a team that I work withthat all may find themselves in the same similar scenario.
(21:10):
I was able to share my story with themand say, oh, I really screwed up here.
Oh, this is what I did wrong.
Oh, I can see this is what triggered me.
I, now, I can see why I reacted andbecame very reactive in the moment.
That's night and dayfrom where I was before.
And I walked away from that not onlynot having a burden, not blaming myself for imperfection or screwing up, mortified, embarrassed, yes.
(21:41):
But also able to share what I learned withmy coworkers and laugh at myself about it, and became a tool for positivity.
That to me is the essence of step 10.
And that's in the moment.
And that takes practice.
And the beauty of it is we are in animperfect world, and we're always gonna have new opportunities for practice.
(22:03):
The other thing I find is that whensomething starts unsettling deep inside me, when I'm getting a cue that there's something, or I've pulled away and hidden about it, that's where sitting down and
letting it kind of stew inside and thenlistening to my gut, listening to my body and saying, oh, really need to think about this, then maybe a few days later.
(22:25):
But doing kind of more of a formal nightlyinventory just is not, it's not only a ineffective, it's, it's detrimental.
The other time that I findmyself really practicing it is in conflict with my spouse also.
I may personally think that 95% ofthe problem is on their side of the street, but, and when I focus on that 5% of the problem that's on my side of the street, then it changes the whole balance of the interaction.
(22:58):
I'm not even looking at what'son the other side of the street and it lets the other person start reacting to me differently.
But that's all about thepractice to progress.
I looked at that automobile and I thoughtas we move on past our initial step fours, many of us have done multiple step fours.
I think that recognizes the factthat we don't dig all the way deep.
(23:20):
we haven't tunneled to our very,very core, when we do a step four.
There's more layers to be peeled back.
And so step 10 is part of that process ofpeeling back those layers, having that aha moment somewhere in my day-to-day life.
Which is almost alwaysassociated with some form of a step 10 that's in the moment.
Spencer (23:43):
I want to pick up that automobile analogy because something happened last week, that sort of illustrated for me why, as you say, sometimes we go back and really do a searching and fearless moral inventory in step four again because.
The first time we did it, we werelooking at one layer of the onion, or you said we didn't dig deep enough.
(24:07):
We've unpeeled that layer of the onion andunderneath it is another layer and there's new stuff in there that we didn't see, or we weren't ready to see, or we weren't willing to look at the first time through.
Took one of our cars in forits regular maintenance.
And it goes in and they do a thoroughinspection of the car, including underneath the car where I don't crawl.
(24:31):
They gave me an estimate on theregularly scheduled maintenance.
Okay.
Replacing the brake fluid and doingstuff with the hybrid power system.
I don't know what, but it costsseveral hundred dollars to do.
Just to keep it like performing well.
Okay.
and they call me back and they're like,okay, your front brakes,the discs are rusted and the pads are down to three millimeters, which is pretty thin, so you really ought to replace those and your rear suspension is seized.
(25:06):
Now, I don't know how I would know that.
I mean, number one, I'm not the regulardriver of this car, but when I have driven it, like, what symptom would tell me that the rear suspension isn't working the way it's supposed to.
So that's like the deeper inventory ofthe car and it uncovers things that Yeah.
Need to be fixed, likethe brakes for sure.
(25:27):
The rear suspension, hopefully the carwill be a little more comfortable to drive and it will last longer, I'm sure.
And, and if it's all seized up, like,does that mean , if we hit a big pothole, it could break, that's not good.
But I would never have noticed thatwithout in this case, having somebody else do the inventory because I don't have the skill to do it.
I think that there probably are thingsin my life that are like that too.
(25:50):
And so yes, it is worthwhileto go back and do a deeper inventory periodically, for sure.
I wanted to read this, selectionthat you pointed out in the Courage to Change Daily Reader.
This is part of the reading forOctober 14th, which is on page 288.
(26:12):
It says, I give thanks for Step ten's,reminder that I need to continue taking personal inventory and making frequent corrections, especially in the areas where I tend to repeat my mistakes.
And then the reminder.
It is no easy task to changethe thinking of a lifetime.
Even when I'm sure that I want to change.
The 10th step allows me to be awareof sliding back into faulty thinking.
(26:36):
I don't have to abusemyself when it happens.
That doesn't help at all.
By promptly admitting when I'm wrong,I'm doing what I can to change.
And then the quote from in all ouraffairs, which is another Al-Anon reader, no longer must we accumulate burdens of guilt or resentment that will become heavier and more potent over time.
Each day, each new moment can bean opportunity to clear the air and start again fresh and free.
(27:03):
That to me really captureswhy we do this step.
Accumulate burdens of guilt; opportunityto clear the air and start again.
I mean, that's why I love thisstep because it lets me keep that stuff from weighing me down.
I don't have to carry it.
Any thoughts on that reading?
Pat (27:24):
It's no easy task change thinking of a lifetime.
That is so true.
A lot of the benefit of the program isthat we're able to recognize those things.
We've worked with our sponsors and we'veworked up to the step, and so we're much more able to recognize our faulty thinking and that sets us up for success with addressing situations like that.
(27:52):
Or, stopping the slide just a couplefeet down that slope, instead of going down a steep drop, Not having to abuse ourself when it happens.
I, I hear that kind of as atheme through here, which is, not striving for perfection.
Another reading from Courage to Change.
page 2 36.
(28:14):
I developed a tremendousfear of making mistakes.
It seemed crucial to cover every possibleoutcome because mistakes often led to an avalanche of accusations and abuse from the alcoholic, and eventually from myself.
My self-esteem diminishedbecause the slightest error felt huge and I couldn't let it go.
So I began to cover up andrationalize my mistakes, all the while desperately trying to maintain an appearance of perfect self-control.
(28:43):
In Al-Anon, I learned to takedown that rigid wall of seeming perfection to honestly admit mistakes and to open myself for growth.
Step 10 in which I continue to takingmy inventory and promptly admit when I am wrong, has been liberating because it challenges me daily, to be honest.
Sometimes it makes me squirm, but Iknow that when I tell the truth, I'm free of the lies that held me back.
(29:08):
As Mark Twain put it, if youtell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.
Today's reminder, I will probably make amistake of some sort every day of my life.
If I view this as a personal failing orpretend that no mistakes have occurred.
I make my life unmanageable whenI stop struggling to be perfect and admit that I am wrong.
(29:31):
I can let go of guilt and shame.
That is cause for rejoicing.
Quote, help them to take failure,not as a measure of their worth, but as a chance for a new start.
That really speaks to my personalexperience with being in an alcoholic relationship, was that perfectionism that I felt I had to strive for and, and the tying together of self-esteem with that.
(29:59):
My self-esteem was so poor that anythingthat I perceived, it wasn't even necessarily a criticism, but I perceived as a criticism would throw me into a, just a complete reaction of fear.
And ultimately I felt unlovable.
It was a really deep, dark place to be.
(30:22):
To no longer react to any imperfection,whether I perceived it or somebody else did, and I think I was probably often my own harshest critic, it really is cause for rejoicing.
So I think for people who are justbeginning to work through this program or who are listening to this podcast, nowhere near step 10, or having
(30:46):
practiced a lot of these behaviors,they do come to fruition that, that slow little, tiny bit at a time.
This is such a hopeful, positivestep because your life comes to a place where, it's no longer such a lonely, sad, dark place.
(31:06):
It's one of positivity.
I don't know if I've told this storybefore, but long ago I was in a work situation where they had done personality inventories and they split us up into groups and then they put
the word conflict on a whiteboard,and the two different groups had to write how they reacted to that or what they thought about the word conflict.
(31:30):
Probably about a thirdof the group was with me.
And our reaction was, I mean, Iliterally was in tears, in tears with that folded arms, super tense.
We came up with maybe three things tosay about it, and all of it was awful.
And then we shared our responsesand Spencer, you're nodding like, you know the results of this.
(31:52):
So over on the other side of the room.
Somebody had said opportunity for growth.
And I was like, are you out of your mind?
How can that be an opportunity for growth?
Oh my gosh.
so that, that to me is reallyemblematic of the difference between pre Al-Anon, early Al-Anon and moving into this place where we have a step 10 and it's so okay to not be perfect.
(32:22):
It's so okay to say, I even madea bad mistake, I'm sorry, I'm gonna change things from here on.
You know, we've just finished step nineof making amends, but you know, in step 10 we haven't really mentioned this.
You do make amends whereverappropriate, and those amends don't have to be huge things.
(32:43):
They can be very simple as longas they're heartfelt and they are done with intent for change.
As long as we're doing that, then we'recontinuing to grow or continuing to practice better growthful behavior.
Do you have any thoughtson that reading Spencer?
Spencer (33:01):
You've covered it pretty well.
One of the things that I was thinkingabout, and none of these readings have really touched on it or developed it anyway, is the way in which I have come to recognize practicing step 10 as, an encapsulation of the first nine steps.
(33:22):
Just briefly, so I do something andI recognize at some point, maybe not right away, oh, I made a mistake here.
I can actually apply all of the firstnine steps because first thing is recognizing that this thing happened.
(33:44):
I did this thing.
I cannot change the factthat I did this thing.
I am powerless over thefact that it happened.
Okay?
That's step one, right?
The next two steps tell me that,hey, I don't have to fix this alone.
I can reach out and ask for help fromwhatever manifestation of my higher power is available to me at the moment.
(34:08):
I probably wanna take a littlebit of time looking at what I was feeling, what was I reacting to?
Because very often when I act inerror, it's because I'm reacting to something that maybe I didn't consciously recognize at the time.
That's step four work, for me.
Let's do an inventory onthis thing that happened.
(34:30):
Let's take our why's and dig in a littlebit or however, however, you know, you do to, to start to look at not just what happened, but what was going on in me as the phrase have, what was my part, right?
I might then wanna share it with anotherperson, maybe to get another perspective on it, or just because when I just hold it inside myself, things don't go as well as they could a lot of the time.
(34:56):
Definitely share it with myselfand my higher power, at least.
That's step five.
In that step four action, in thatinventory action, I have recognized maybe an underlying, shortcoming or character defect or character trait, that is not serving me well and I can become willing to change.
Step six.
(35:17):
I can ask for help froma higher power to change.
Step seven.
If I hurt somebody, then I need tounderstand who I hurt and how I hurt them.
Step eight.
So that I can make appropriate amends.
Apology, changing behavior, whateverit needs to be in step nine.
Sometimes this whole process takesa few minutes, sometimes it takes a day, sometimes it takes longer.
(35:46):
It's kinda like everything up tothis point can get packed into step 10, so that I don't have to go back and do the big thing.
I can just do the small thing.
and you know, I did not understandwhat people meant when they said, yeah, I worked the steps on that problem.
And this is my understanding ofhow I have come to do exactly that work, the steps on a problem.
(36:14):
That gets me to a point whereI have a path of progress, to go forward in my life.
This step is what keepsme from having to go back.
We'll take a little break, and thenwe'll come back and talk about our lives in recovery, about how recovery is working in our lives today.
(36:34):
Pat, you chose some songs.
What's the first one?
Pat (36:39):
The first song is Grow As We Go.
It's by Alex Hope, BenAbraham and Ben Platt.
And I believe the video wehave is performed by Ben Platt.
I was in a particular mood when I waschoosing songs and I think I was really in a mood of one of growing together.
(36:59):
in Grow as we go, there's alsoreally nice video with dancing.
And the dancing kind of saysto me conflict and then conflict resolution and people moving together.
He says, who said it's true that thegrowing only happens on your own?
In the song, there seemed to bechallenging, a partner who wants to leave and says, I gotta do this work myself, and I think I have to do it alone.
(37:24):
And he says, who said it's true thatthe growing only happens on your own and then admits their own part in it?
I am unfinished.
I have so much left to learn.
I don't know who we'll become.
I can promise it's not written inthe stars, but I believe that when it's done, we're gonna see that it was better that we grew up together.
(37:46):
You can change right next to me.
When you are high, I'll take the lows.
You can ebb and I can flow.
We'll take it slow and grow as we go.
That really felt like Al-Anon to me.
feels like we're not alone.
We don't have to try tolive this life by ourselves.
(38:07):
We don't have to try to make it throughour ebbs and flows by ourselves.
We can share that journey with otherpeople and grow and it just kind of says, yeah, we don't know where we're gonna end up, but we can do it together as a group and as co-supporters and co-growers.
Spencer (38:33):
In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery.
How have we experienced recovery recently?
One of the things that has come up for merecently, I've talked, probably a lot, in this section of the podcast about working with the teens in my church community.
I've been in different rolesover the last decade and a half, more or less, maybe even longer.
(39:00):
My goodness.
In the last couple of years, Ihave been a co-advisor for, our 10th through 12th grade group.
A couple of weeks ago, the personwho was the lead advisor, said to me, this is my last year.
And she didn't say it, butmy brain said, okay, Spencer, you're gonna have to step up.
(39:27):
Part of me, the self-centeredselfish part of me says, I don't wanna do all that work.
And another part of me says, but youknow, you can, you've done it before and you really enjoy working with these kids.
And apparently they honor the fact thatI and my fellow advisors are there.
(39:49):
They actually said this explicitlyto the entire congregation a few weeks ago, when the teen group gets to lead one service each year.
At the end they said some words about theadvisors, about how we are there for them.
And, and we see them.
It brought tears to my eyes, justlike, I didn't know you felt this way.
And maybe I should have, but I didn't.
(40:10):
and getting that explicit verbalrecognition was really big.
I have not yet gone to the personin charge of the program to say, I will step up and be the lead advisor since my friend has stepped back.
Because I wanted to makesure that I could do it.
I would say that the way this connectsfor me, to my whole recovery program is this more intentional way of making decisions about what I say yes to and what I say no to, because there are other
(40:44):
things I've been asked to do and I havesaid no, I do not have the time, the energy, the bandwidth to do that along with the other things that I'm doing.
It's not that I wouldn't want to,under other circumstances, I can't make the commitment to that along with the other things that I'm doing and give them what I need to give.
(41:04):
That has come directly out of the thingsthat I learned in Al-Anon about growing out of my codependent behavior that would have me say yes to everything.
So using these principles in all myaffairs, that's one of the places that came up for me recently.
How about you?
Pat (41:22):
A couple different things.
I have been really struggling.
I think I spoke a little bit agoabout losing my sponsor to dementia.
So I've been struggling still withsetting time aside for meetings.
I'm still working full-time.
in getting ready for this particularpodcast, I was like, oh, okay.
(41:42):
I think I can.
Oftentimes I schedule on myweekday days off, just social time.
And I think if I just put in the Al-Anonmeetings into my calendar first, then I can smoosh the social time around it.
I think that might work.
Doing the podcast has actually beenreally positive and beneficial for me.
A way of kind of stepping up mygame and stepping back into the program, being more thoughtful about it and deliberate about it.
(42:09):
Intentional as you would say.
The other thing, is that I made somenot so great financial choices recently.
One of which was to trust the system andnot bother to look at my bank accounts on a regular basis or balance my checkbook.
I had enough in there kind of know howmuch I'm gonna need and how much I'm getting from my paycheck and didn't really have to worry about watching every penny.
(42:35):
I went to my bank and took out somecash recently and went, oh my gosh.
The account balance was far lowerthan I thought it should have been.
It was right after a paycheck and,realized that somebody had been making false charges on my account to the tune of some pretty hefty numbers, like in the thousands.
(42:59):
and wow, Al-Anon is all over how Imanaged that whole situation because I, I can't even, I think I would've just freaked out in the past.
The tools that I used were recognizingmy feelings that I was having at the moment, which of course, were not really fantastic or super happy, but recognizing them.
(43:20):
Acknowledging them.
Recognizing my powerlessness.
I mean, at the moment,it had already been done.
Okay.
So all I have from hereis to move forward.
It just was not gonna do me anygood to try to rant and rave about something I was powerless over.
So making my choices about where Iwas gonna move forward from there.
And putting things in perspective.
(43:41):
Holy cow.
I just had a friendthis week die from ALS.
and I'm looking around me living inan urban environment, and all of the people who are unhoused and don't have enough food and all of the changes to the social support system.
I don't have those concerns.
(44:02):
I had enough bandwidth that it took awhile before I even it recognized that this is a serious problem in my account.
So putting it all in perspective, havinggratitude for my health, having gratitude for the things I have in my life that allow me to live a fairly comfortable
(44:24):
life and focus on becoming the personI wanna be instead of focusing on where is my next meal or, you know, where am I gonna have shelter tonight when I sleep?
Really has allowed me to just managethis whole situation fairly well.
My husband was helping me out withsituations and another Al-Anon tool I was able to use was, okay, he's being a little tiny bit irritating in this scenario, but 98% really super helpful with some really good ideas.
(44:53):
I was able to be open to hearingwhat he had to say instead of just shutting him down inside my head.
All in all, I have to say, I have a lot tobe grateful for, and it was a big hiccup.
I may or may not get that money back.
We'll see what Visa has to say.
So Al-Anon was really pretty helpfulthis week in my world and certainly kept me from some really extreme reactions or maybe unuseful behavior or even unkind behavior to my partner.
Spencer (45:27):
that's sort of a nightmare scenario, really.
Pat (45:31):
yeah.
Spencer (45:31):
I don't know if I would've handled it that well.
Let's look forward in the podcast.
We're almost through our series on thesteps, we have steps 11 and 12 remaining.
I already have a guest linedup to talk about step 11.
We welcome your thoughts.
You can always join our conversation,leave us a voicemail or send us an email with your feedback or your questions.
(45:56):
And Pat, how can people do that?
Pat (45:59):
Oh, you can send a voice memo or email to feedback at the recovery dot show, or if you prefer, you can call and leave us a voicemail, 7 3 4 7 0 7 8 7 9 5.
You can also use the voicemailbutton on the website to join the conversation from your computer.
We'd love to hear from you.
(46:20):
Share your experience, strength, andhope, or your questions about today's topic of Step 10 or any of our upcoming topics, including steps 11 and 12.
If you have a topic you'd likeus to talk about, let us know.
If you would like advance notice forsome of our topics so that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback at the recovery dot show.
(46:45):
Put email in the subject lineand that makes it easier to spot.
Spencer, where can our listeners findout more about the recovery show?
Spencer (46:54):
Hey, that would be on our website, the recovery dot show, where we have all the information that's available about the show.
Mostly that's notes for eachepisode, which will include links to the books that we read from, videos for the music that we chose.
And also you can find there aresome links to other recovery podcasts and websites that we like.
(47:18):
A little bit more of podcast news.
as you have probably heard, if you'vebeen listening recently, I will be going to the AA International Convention up in Vancouver at the beginning of July.
That means I'm actually gonna be awayfrom home for a couple of weeks, and that will very likely have an impact on the publication schedule for the podcast.
(47:42):
I have dreams of maybe doing somereporting directly from the convention, but we'll see how that works out.
And then I'm gonna be on a cruisewith limited internet access.
So anyway, we'll see what happens.
I'm hoping to meet severalpeople have written to me and said, yeah, I'm gonna be there.
Let's figure out how to meet up.
I think it'll be a lot offun, and a lot of recovery.
(48:06):
Our second musical selection,which again, is available on the website at the recovery show slash 4 35, is by Elton John.
And you're probably gonna guesswhen you heard the name Elton John, but the title of the song is, Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word.
Which just feels like ittotally relates to this step.
You know, when we werewrong, promptly admitted it.
(48:29):
The sentiment there is.
It's hard to say, I'm sorry.
I screwed up.
we're broken up and I'm findingit hard to say, I'm sorry.
Or maybe we broke up becauseI couldn't say, I'm sorry.
A number of differentways to read that song.
(48:52):
I always love to hear from you.
I've heard from a number of peoplewho are planning to be at the AA International Convention in Vancouver.
Making tentative plans tomeet up at the convention.
Again, if you're planning to goand you haven't sent me an email at feedback at the recovery dot show, please do because I'd love to meet you.
(49:15):
I got an email from an anonymouslistener who writes, hi Spencer.
Thank you so much for the recovery show.
I have participated in theAl-Anon Fellowship for 17 years.
Your podcast is like a healthy meetingaccessible to everyone, especially those who are curious, yet not ready to attend a Zoom or in person Al-Anon meeting.
In my work as a therapist, Ioften refer people to your podcast as well as to Al-Anon dot org.
(49:39):
I'm just gonna pause here andsay, wow, thank you for that.
The listener continues.
The episode on step ninewas helpful and thorough.
Just one glitch.
The second audio recording of Heather'sexperience with Step nine repeated the story of her attempt to make amends to her ex-boyfriend, rather than listeners hearing her amends to her sister.
I don't know if you can edit itnow that it's already published, but just wanted to let you know.
(50:03):
Again, thank you so much for your service.
Gratefully Anonymous.
This came in very shortly after thestep nine episode had been published, and I immediately went and fixed the audio, put the correct share from Heather in there and uploaded it again.
For people whose podcast app hadalready downloaded the wrong episode, I made a post titled fixed, that would cause the new one to be downloaded.
(50:30):
If you've listened and it's fixedbecause it is fixed in the original episode, now, then no need to worry.
And in fact, I will, in the nextfew days, I will go and remove the fixed episode because it probably will no longer be necessary.
In the last episode, I included a voicememo from Esther about sponsorship and some of the challenges she was having.
(50:51):
I suggested that she might lookfor a sponsor at an online meeting.
She wrote back, said, hi, Spencer.
Thanks so much for yourreply and your suggestions.
My former sponsor alwayssaid, a sponsorship relation works better face-to-face.
While it is true that in-personcommunication has a closeness that online communication may lack, I agree with you that we are lucky to live
(51:13):
in a time in which we can connectwith fellows in other parts of the world, and that gives us more choices.
Now I am trying out different onlinemeetings and listening with an open mind to try and discern what kind of sponsor my higher power wants me to work with.
I'm looking forward to hearing otherlisteners experience with sponsorship.
Greetings from Germany, Esther.
Thank you, Esther, for responding.
(51:35):
And I totally agree that in myexperience, sponsorship very likely works better face to face.
However, sometimes that's not possibleand I'm actually currently sponsoring somebody who's six times zones away from me and we're doing okay.
I might send out a email tothe mailing list asking for experience with online sponsorship.
(51:58):
It's not a totally new thing.
I know people whose maincontact with their sponsor for years has been on the phone.
The use of remote meeting tools suchas Zoom probably increased the number of people who have sponsors that they don't or can't meet face to face with and be great to hear that experience.
Nancy wrote, hi Spencer.
I had the pleasure of doing ashow with you on whether the alcoholic is drinking or not.
(52:23):
Episode 377.
I listen to your podcast all the time andjust heard the last episode on step nine.
I had a very interesting experiencewith making amends to my husband and loved one just this past weekend.
After being in Al-Anon for 30years and working this program, I still got backed up against a wall and lied to both of them.
(52:43):
Thank God for the program becauseat another time I would've kept up this behavior and both my spouse and son would've suffered along with me.
There are no mistakes, only lessons.
The 10th step played right into what tookplace, and I promptly admitted my wrongs.
I was able to clear thedecks and come clean.
It was freeing and humbling, especiallyfor someone in the program for so long.
(53:06):
You would've thought that I was not asconcerned with what my husband thought of me, people pleasing 1 0 1 and felt better about myself with far more self-worth.
I find that this is something that canbe discussed at an episode on step 10, continuing to take personal inventory and promptly admitting it, but at what cost.
No matter our age, maturity,confidence, how difficult is it to work this step in a healthy way?
(53:29):
I would love to do anotherepisode with you and explore this.
I know you're doing step 10 now, andhaving just experienced an aha moment with step nine I am worth learning about.
It is ongoing that I trust that I willuncover whatever I need to know for now.
It is all about love, forgiveness, andunderstanding, and taking a personal inventory involves all those qualities.
(53:51):
Best to you and hope tohear from you, Nancy.
I invited Nancy to join me for anepisode, so we'll see when that happens.
Valerie wrote, hi Spencer.
The fact that I am actually finallyreaching out to you is a true testament to my progress in recovery.
You have been a part of my activerecovery program since early 2023, and I can't imagine where I would be without your voice and the experience, strength, and hope of you and your guests in my ears on a regular basis.
(54:20):
Until now, I was certain thatI had nothing new or novel that would be worth sharing on such a large platform as your podcast.
And since I listen while taking longwalks, I have never been at my computer to act on my frequent desire to reach out and simply say I enjoyed the episodes.
So why now?
Because I just finished listeningto episode 4 34 on step nine, and I realized that Step 10 is next.
(54:43):
Ironically, my husband and I did a Step10 today as part of our couples 12 step program in recovering couples anonymous, RCA, and I have only heard you mention RCA in one episode along the way.
So I thought perhaps there may beinterest in discussing RCA in more detail, or at least about the role it has played in my active recovery journey.
(55:05):
And if you already have a speakerlined up for step 10, perhaps step 12 would be an alternative opportunity to speak about practicing both Al-Anon and RCA in all my affairs.
Keep up the amazing work you aredoing to create hope for so many who may feel their situation is hopeless.
How grateful I am to know I am not alone.
Sincerely, Valerie.
And again, I wrote back to Valerieand invited her to, schedule a time to talk about step 12.
(55:31):
So that will be coming.
That is your feedback for today.
Keep those letters and voicemails coming.
Pat, I want to thank you for joiningme today for our dive into step 10.
And you've got one more song.
Pat (55:50):
It's this really cool song by Melissa Etheridge,.
It's called Gently We Row.
God, what a cool song.
And it feels very Stepten-ish, in a lot of ways.
but it's again, kind of goesback to the, some of the same thoughts with the first song.
It's her journey and she moves frombeing alone, looking to the outside for answers and then finding herself.
(56:19):
And in finding herself, then she'sable to row slowly, gently row her way down her life's passage in a river.
The other thing I love that shedoes, and that just feels very Al-Anon, is that she takes what she was given and improves on it.
So in the analogy she says, she askedher mother for advice and her mother drew a room and just said to her, turn off the light when you leave.
(56:48):
But when her daughter asks her,she, for her daughter, draws a door and a key and says, when you're ready, I get choked up on this song.
When you're ready, come find me.
And then they rowtogether down the stream.
It's a gentle row.
It's a gentle progression.
(57:09):
It's becoming who you're goingto become together as a team.
And then she speaks aboutillusions as being your life.
So you start with yourlife as an illusion.
And then she says, I won't complicatemy daughter's illusions with mine.
So I just love that too.
I love that she's making choices not toput her issues onto her daughter and let her daughter discover her own path, but at the same time is on that path with her as they rode gently down the river.
(57:46):
It's a gentle program, and that'ssomething I've heard so many times.
I think Spencer, you'vesaid it many times, is that Al-Anon is a gentle program.
It's a gentle program of lovingourselves, of being compassionate.
There's a lot of compassion thatwas mentioned in the Step 10 readings, and it requires a huge amount of compassion for ourselves.
(58:09):
One of 'em mentions that as we becomemore compassionate for ourselves, then we're able to be compassionate for others.
This song was a real gem andI had not heard it before, but I'm really glad I found it.
Spencer (58:29):
Thank you for listening and please keep coming back.
Whatever your problems, there arethose among us who have had them too.
If we did not talk about a problem you arefacing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode.
May understanding, love and peacegrow in you one day at a time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.