Separating from Dysfunction – 428

Heather relates her experience growing up in dysfunction, and her journey to recovery through therapy, Al-Anon and ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families). Understanding Family Dysfunction Many of us have grown up in environments marked by dysfunction, often without realizing the full extent until adulthood. Heather’s story reveals the toxic atmosphere she was...

The post Separating from Dysfunction – 428 appeared first on The Recovery Show.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
I know that the only thing that I needto do today is maintain my intentions, walk in grace as much as I possibly can.
Know that I might have flare ups.
Cause life gets crazy sometimes, but I'll do the bestthat I can to manage my own thoughts and behaviors.
That's the only thing I can do here.

(00:22):
Welcome to episode 428 of The Recovery Show.
This episode is brought to you byKerry, John, Laura, Karen, and Rachel.
They used the donation button on our website.
Thank you, Kerry, John, Laura, Karen, andRachel for your generous contributions.
This episode is for you.
We are friends and family members of alcoholics andaddicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness.

(00:46):
We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopelessproblem of addiction understand as perhaps few others can.
So much depends on our own attitudes.
And we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery.
Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show,we represent ourselves rather than any 12 step program.
During this show, we will share our own experiences.

(01:07):
The opinions expressed here are strictlythose of the person who gave them.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
We hope that you will find something inour sharing that speaks to your life.
My name is Spencer.
I'm your host.
And joining me today is Heather.
Welcome back to the recovery show, Heather.
Thank you so much for having me today.
I'm so grateful that you're giving this topic sometime for me to reflect, for listeners to reflect.

(01:33):
I'm grateful.
Thanks.
And what the topic is, we'll get to in a moment.
We're going to open with a reading.
You want to tell us about it.
I brought in the first reading whichis Hope for Today on January 18th.
This was the only thought I rememberedfrom my first Al Anon meeting.
We can learn to live at peace with ourselves and others.

(01:55):
Quote, live at peace with ourselves and others?
I wondered, how do people do this?
From my alcoholic upbringing to my own family, andworkplace, I had never experienced a peaceful way of life.
With myself, I was constantly fighting againstthe guilt, fear and anger that ruled my life.
With others, I was always fighting for some cause or belief,trying to make them see that my position was the right one.

(02:20):
Of course I never won, and the wars never ceased.
When I came to Al Anon, I finallyfound a peace I desired so much.
Al Anon taught me that the path to peace is accepting thepeople, places, and things, and situations, I cannot change.
Accepting myself as I am, by working steps four throughnine, freed me from my self inflicted inner judge and jury.

(02:43):
Accepting others with the use of theserenity prayer allowed me to stop fighting.
Acceptance allows God to do what I cannot.
Acceptance opens the door for my growth and leadsme on my spiritual journey one day at a time.
Accepting the things I cannot change is not always easy.
Sometimes I really fight it.

(03:04):
Because my life is always changing, there isalways Is some new person or situation to accept.
Fortunately, I don't have to gothrough the acceptance process alone.
My higher power provides the power.
Al Anon provides the path and the peoplein the program provide the support.
All I need to experience peace is to keep coming back.

(03:25):
And the thought for the day, peaceis a natural outgrowth of acceptance.
And the Alateen talks back on acceptance quotationis, acceptance comes through the comfort we receive from members at meetings when we slowly begin to understand and care about ourself and others.
I just want to note you sent me a photo of this pagefrom your book and it is underlined and starred and there's a pink arrow tag and there's some highlighting and you wrote stuff in the margin in between the lines.

(04:00):
Wow
Yeah, welcome to me living Al Anon.
I'm messy.
Why this reading?
this one really hits me because I did grow up ina family that I knew was affected by dysfunction.
I knew I was living in a toxic environment.
But until, I came into Al Anon, right before I cameinto Al Anon, I had no idea what alcoholism was.

(04:24):
The family disease of alcoholism.
That was never really an awareness in my mind.
Growing up, I was, the person who was always fighting in ahome where one critical parent was always volatile, raging, very violent, emotionally, physically, verbally abusive.
The other parent was the doormat, thesubmissive, the quiet, the not fighting.

(04:50):
I was the firstborn of two and I was always rising up.
I played a few different roles.
You know how they talk about in the big book,of, AA, all of the different roles in the play.
I played a few different roles.
One role was, the fighter of injustice.
I was always rising up against my critical parent, either toprotect myself, to, justify, argue, defend, explain, JADE.

(05:14):
You know, no, that's not true.
to protect the other people in my family.
hey, no, you don't yell at him.
Why are you yelling at him?
that kind of thing.
Much to my own, undoing because that set me up tobe the aggressor later, which I'll get to in a bit.
but I also was the scapegoat.
I also played the role of the scapegoat.

(05:35):
I was always in the light.
And so I was always getting the criticism, beingin trouble, being told I was the bad apple, and that was what I Kerryd into the rest of my life.
You were the, the nail sticking up that got pounded down.
The squeaky wheel.
Yes.

(05:55):
so we're here today to talk about how did you put it?
when the alcoholic in your lifegets to be too much or something.
Yeah, we hear in our literature, the line that saysliving with an alcoholic may be too much for many of us.
And that one always speaks to me because I can saythat, as I grew up with my family, there were multiple periods in my life where I shut out my family.

(06:21):
I will say that I was taught the family cycle to do that.
That is exactly what both of myparents did with their families.
so I, I learned how to do that.
and when it was too much for me to bear, whenliving with the people was hard and I didn't know what to do with that, I shut it off.

(06:42):
because that was the best coping skill that I had.
There were several times of that in my lifetime.
When I finally, became a parent and wasabout to have my first child, I had this moment of, do I be the bigger person?
Like, how do I be the bigger person?
I know how I was impacted in my life when my familycut out family and I lost my extended family.

(07:06):
I know what that feels like.
Do I give my children the opportunity toknow their grandparents, or do I protect my children from these people who are toxic?
I spent hard, hard thought thinking about that.
Ultimately, I decided, long story short, thatI was not going to build a boundary there.
I had my little toddlers, and I still had the sameexact relationship with my parents that I always had.

(07:32):
And I would go over there, it would get toxic.
I would pack up my kids.
Okay, kids, time to go, and leaveas fast as I possibly could.
That was how my early days with my children were.
This was all pre program.
And, that combined with the factthat doing life as an adult.
I now know that I was an adult child trying to do life.

(07:53):
That combined with the fact that I had reallyrough survival skills, my marriage was suffering.
my work was suffering and my children were being raisedwith the shoddy tools that I had, the best that I could do.
what happened for me was around the time that my kidswere in the like 10, 11, 12 phase, they were getting bigger, more vocal, and I was exhibiting a lot more control, a lot more rage, and I had a catalyst moment where I saw myself becoming my mom more than ever before.

(08:33):
I'll be honest with you, that rocked me to the core.
So what happened for me was I had this moment and then Isaid, if I don't do something right now, literally right now, my kids are going to feel the same way that I feel.
They're going to feel about me,how I feel about my own mother.
And I could not bear that.
So I put myself back into therapy.
Not the first time I've been in therapy.

(08:54):
I put myself back into therapy.
You know, I walk in, I go, okay, here'severything that's wrong with me, my mom, my dad, my sister, me, blah, blah, blah.
And this is the first therapist who eversaid, that sounds like classic alcoholism.
Have you ever heard of AA?
Have you ever heard of Al Anon?
And I had not.
I did not jump into Al Anon that day.
Two years later, my life is still unmanageable.

(09:18):
If it took the therapist to identify symptoms of alcoholism.
I'm guessing you didn't say, Oh my God.
Yeah, that's what was going on.
Right,
And so why this Al Anon thing?
Cause that's about alcoholics and there'snot alcoholics here as far as I know.
right.
That's right.

(09:39):
That's right.
and it just so happened that one day I wascomplaining to a coworker about everything.
My marriage, my, my family, my kids, my work.
And he goes, look, can I take you to a meeting?
And he is a double winner.
God bless him.
he was in AA and Al Anon and he took me tomy first Al Anon meeting on my lunch break.

(10:00):
It was a mile away from our office.
I started being one of those fringe Al Anon peoplewho, you know, kind of walked in after the meeting started, walked out before the meeting ended.
But the relief that I got there was so significantbecause I finally heard people telling my story.
Because in my family, I was the only one.

(10:21):
I was the only one who felt like this reality doesn'tquite mesh with the reality that I think I understand in my mind, but these people understood what I was saying.
And so that launched me into, my path in the Al Anon world.
All that to say this topic really has come aboutbecause, when I first came into Al Anon and I started working with a sponsor, I said, look, we don't really have to work on my parents.

(10:49):
I pretty much have a void where thatrelationship was supposed to be.
And I'm fine with it.
I've made peace with it.
We don't have to do any work
So were you still in contact with your parents,were you still taking the kids to visit and all that?
By void, I mean, you know, there's always the push and pullin dysfunctional families, and the step, one summary from the ACA book that I'm going to read later talks to that.

(11:16):
There's always this push and pull.
Like, I'm always desiring the family model so much thatI keep wanting to jump back in, keep hoping for the best, but then I get scarred and run right back out again.
And also, part of the Al Anon diseasethat I have is looking perfect.
And so my perfect family model was making sure that Istill do all the holidays, you know, do all the birthdays.

(11:43):
Show up.
So when I started talking about family with my sponsor,it was like, I have an emotional void, in denial.
AkA let's talk about denial.
Okay, now I get
I have a void where my family is becauseI had shut that down emotionally.
And she just smiled politely andsaid, okay, let's see how it goes.

(12:07):
Right.
and we started about working on other things, but littleby little as Al-Anon and other 12 step, perhaps does.
My heart started softening.
I started, especially in the fourthstep work where I saw my own wreckage.
And I could see in the mirror, how itlooked so similar to the wreckage of my mom.

(12:31):
Me becoming the aggressor, becoming the ragerand understanding why, and going, Ah, I see how she could probably feel that way too.
That helped soften so much of my heart for her.
Did it excuse the past?
No.
Did it help me forgive the past?

(12:53):
Sometimes a little bit.
Some days were easier than others, not a hundred percent.
But, did it fix the pieces in me that were still what Iwould consider broken in the spot where my self esteem fits?
No, it didn't fix that, and I continue tocarry that void, but in the Al Anon journey, I started opening in my mind, can I be as kind to her as I would to any person on the street?

(13:23):
Maybe.
that's not a hard yes.
That's a perhaps.
I'm at least open and willing to explore that thought.
And so I did.
And then I started changing my thoughts and behaviors.
Can I sit in the room for five minutesand not sit in constant judgment or fear?

(13:45):
And that took practice.
These are the baby steps along the way ofmy journey that took a lot of practice.
And I was able to do that.
Can I hold conversations when the flare up comes at me?
Can I choose a contrary action and not react?

(14:05):
That took a lot of practice, you know?
And the cool thing for me and I feel very lucky about this.
It's a little bit different than being in adomestic violence relationship where you're married.
you cohabit with someone, your money is tied upwith someone, you may have to get a divorce, you may have to take your kids somewhere else, it's a little different than that sort of relationship.

(14:29):
In the outcome part, but the PTSD partis probably similar, I would imagine,
I'm thinking about the differences between separatingfrom a love partner and separating from your parent.
Or I suppose your child, adult child.

(14:51):
Because in one case, the ties are legal and there'shistory and emotional entanglement in the marriage case.
In the parent child case, once you'readult, there's no legal connection.
You can just walk away legally andnobody's going to do anything about it.

(15:13):
but emotionally, because you've been connected.
to that parent or that child for years.
And there's the societal messagesabout, honoring your parents.
I'm just thinking about those differences.
Like in one case, maybe it's morespiritual, emotional than legal.

(15:36):
but I don't know.
What do I know?
I'll tell you, the ties of shame run deep.
I could say it's easy to untether, it's easy to detachfrom them, but the lingering things that are inside me, I carry that, even if I walk away, it's like we always joke, I could move to another town, but I'd

(15:57):
still be with me, it's, it is that true, and When Icould understand that logically, because I'm doing 12 step work all the time, I could see the truth in the fact that, you know what, I want to work through this.
I want to work through this so that I can heal this stuff.
So that whether I talk to this person or not,whether the alcoholic is drinking or not, our literature says, I can find serenity.

(16:25):
And that is actually what I in earnest tried to do.
I can say with real honesty, and when I lookat my progress, the progress that I have made in that department has been exponential.
I'm proud of it.
I see it for what it is.
I also see the lingering stuff that I might keepworking on for the rest of my life, hopefully.

(16:51):
I don't know.
I can get more healing.
When we were talking before we started recording, youtalked about the relief that you got from Al-Anon.
But that there were parts of you that the AlAnon work didn't heal or didn't completely heal.
What does that look like?

(17:12):
You know the things that we work on in Al Anon,detaching, you know I learned how to go from detaching with an axe to detaching with love I can honestly say that there were times before Al Anon where it was a big F you I'm detaching with an axe And that truly did shift for me with the work in Al Anon.

(17:33):
There was more compassion in my heart,there was more compassion in my language.
Because some, one of the gifts of Al Anonfor me has been really learning the language of unconditional acceptance and love.
And I didn't learn that with my upbringing.
But now that I know that, I get to practicethat with my fellows and in meetings.

(17:56):
Now I can use that in my everyday language.
And so I could use that language better with my family.
Was it received?
Maybe not, typically not.
But I know I have that tool.
The other thing I want to say is that, the amendsprocess when you go through, four, five, six, seven, and then you get to that big whopping eight, am I willing to write someone's name down on a list and nine, can I do this amends?

(18:26):
When I went through the first 12 step journey,the first time I did not do an official step nine amends verbally with my parents.
The first reason was because there's stillthe piece of me that's yo, they hurt me.
What did I do?
and that's real.
It's real.
There's also the piece of me that's very scared.

(18:48):
Opening a dialogue with my volatile parentis scary and I do have PTSD from that.
Not knowing where I will go if I step intorage, if I lose my tools, that also scares me.
And so I never was willing to do a step nine verbalamends with them, but I did do significant living amends.

(19:14):
I talked about it with my sponsor.
I was very intentional about it.
some of that was what I had already mentioned,being able to sit in a room with them without judgment, being able to carry on a conversation, asking them about themselves, which I would never do before, partially because I didn't want to hear it.
And partially because, that could leadinto some not safe kind of conversation.

(19:37):
when they say news sports, weather,keep the conversation light and polite.
I had to really do that with my family.
Because at any moment, it could go intosome really crazy town kind of conversation.
I was able to do that more and I did make monumentalprogress and I was able to find serenity, whether they were emotionally or physically sober or not.

(20:01):
But I think that's what I continued to see is that no matterhow much work I did with them, there was still a piece of me that thought, if I keep doing this work and I keep getting better, then it'll be the salve that heals my family.
Again, I am hyper responsible for beingthe one in power to fix my broken family.

(20:26):
That's a big weight to carry.
Fast forward, September of last year, I went to aconvention and I saw ACA, in a marathon meeting and I had always shied away from ACA because, the rumor mill kind of drums it up as being very dramatic and I thought, Oh gosh, I've had a lot of drama.
I don't need any more drama in my life.

(20:47):
I don't want to cut my wounds open.
Yes.
And just to clarify for the listener who's notfamiliar, that is Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families is the full name of that program.
But we say ACA because it's a lot easier to say.
Yeah, it's a mouthful.
and truly, I didn't really understand what theconcept of the adult child was until this moment.

(21:13):
So a couple things happened for me.
One, I saw the concept of adult child and really forme, what I can liken that to is I've literally been married, had kids, gotten a college degree, work a job.
And sometimes I'm like, how is that happening?
I honestly feel like a kid myself.

(21:34):
How am I doing all of this adulting?
I feel like I have become an adult in my body, butin my emotional state, I am completely stunted.
And so that's how I could equate myself into the adultchild of alcoholic family or dysfunctional family.

(21:55):
I listen to a podcast named Adult Child, and shesays something like this, she says adult children are people whose dysfunctional upbringing is still causing them problems as adults, which is a very broad definition, could apply to almost everybody,

(22:16):
but when it comes to, okay, I'm going to step intothis 12 step program, it has to be affecting you badly enough that you're willing to do that work.
Yes.
That's honestly where I look at it.
If we talk about codependency, we talk about enmeshment.
You know what the saying is, where does the other personstop and I begin, I didn't have an understanding of that.

(22:38):
I was always dependent on someoneelse for my worth definition.
I was always dependent on someone elseto validate me in any possible way.
If someone else's emotions wereflaring, I was at the whim of that.
And I developed a lot of reactionary and veryunhealthy behaviors to try to make my life manageable.

(23:03):
Over controlling, hyper responsibility,people pleasing, so many.
So going back to, you steppedinto this meeting at a convention.
What kind of convention was it?
you know what?
It's our local AA convention with Al Anon participation.
And I don't know if your conventions are this way, butyou have the, regular, different pieces of the convention.

(23:28):
Separately, there's an hour by hour marathonmeeting set up, both for AA and for Al Anon.
And one of those was
yes.
Yes.
Yes.
And, I'm such a curious person.
I've always asked a lot of questions.
So I went up to the guy at the ACA table and said,Hey, is ACA just like an offshoot of Al Anon?

(23:51):
And what he said to me rocked my world because Ihadn't been able to put it into perspective like this.
He said he was an AA to work on his relationship withalcohol, Al Anon to work on relationship with other people, places or things, and ACA to work on his relationship with his inner child and higher power . In

(24:15):
ACA, they talk about the real parent, our bio parentsare just the parents we got to give us birth, but our real parent our loving parent is our higher power.
And that gave me perspective toreally put it together in my mind.
So you then added ACA to your

(24:37):
yeah, Because everyone needs another 12 step.
That is exactly what happened.
I just started exploring it a little bitmore and listening for it a little bit more.
And so in my regular, Al-Anon meetings.
I have a daily virtual Zoom meetingthat I go to almost every day.
I have a local in person meetingthat I go to almost once a week.
I just started listening.

(24:58):
And lo and behold, fellows said some stuffthat made me go, Hey, are you in ACA too?
And I found a few.
I found a few people that I already knewand trusted their recovery in Al Anon.
And then had some ACA related conversations.
Move forward.
I found a sponsor, in ACA.

(25:19):
So the good thing about for me, atleast in Al Anon, I sponsor people also.
So I work my program every day and I sponsor people,but I'm not working the 12 steps right now so I can put my focus into working the 12 steps of ACA and their models a little bit different, which is fine.
But I found a sponsor, and we started working.

(25:42):
It is very gentle.
It is very focused on the loving relationship thatI can have with myself, that I can have with my sponsor, that I can have with my higher power.
and I'm in step one right now.
And it's funny because in Al Anon,I was like, gold star student.

(26:02):
Oh, step one, check.
Step two, check.
Step three, check.
gold star.
And then, I took a lot of time in step four.
But here, I think I've been instep one in ACA for two months.
It's a just a funny realizationfor me, but I'm still doing it.
Maybe now would be a good time forme to read that step one summary.

(26:23):
The ACA book, the big red book is incredible, and I'lltell you it's hilarious because I have to refrain from highlighting and underlining in this book, otherwise I would honestly highlight and underline every single word.
I relate with it exponentially.
it, Tells the story of my feelings, my emotions,the way that it felt when I was growing up and the way that it feels now, it resonates within me, like the fine tuning of the most perfect bell.

(26:57):
so I'll read the step one summary and thisis in the big red book pages, 122 and 123.
It says these shares represent and the shares thatjust happened in the book is what that's referring to.
It says these shares represent the basicspiritual principles of ACA's first step.

(27:18):
Powerlessness, unmanageability,and Surrender and letting go.
Step one requires that we admit that ourfamily is dysfunctional and the dysfunction affects our thinking and behavior as adults.
We must admit that we are powerless over theeffects of growing up in a dysfunctional home.
Our lives are unmanageable regardlessof appearance of self sufficiency.

(27:39):
Social standing or compulsive selfreliance does not equal recovery.
We must realize that willpower or self determination isno match for the effects of growing up in a sick family.
We cannot figure it out on our own.
We need help.
We must shatter the illusion that wecan reason out a painless solution.

(28:03):
The shares also represent thecritical separation from family.
Work which is necessary to gain clarity about our lives.
Separating from our families means setting healthyboundaries and removing ourselves from abusive situations and family crises, which are common for dysfunctional homes.
Many times adult children struggle in their ACAprogram because they cannot seem to break eyes with destructive or manipulative relatives.

(28:31):
We cannot grow and find our true inner selves as long as weengage in family dysfunction that is draining and unhealthy.
Separating from our dysfunctionalfamily is a healthy act of defiance.
By doing so, we are challengingthe authority of the family lie.

(28:52):
We are making a statement that we will no longerbe loyal to denial and dysfunctional family roles.
This can seem frightening, but wehave the support of our ACA group.
Many adult children separate from theirfamilies with love, not abandonment.
They need time away to focus on themselves and to disconnectfrom the gravitational pull of a dysfunctional home.

(29:14):
At an appropriate time, we review therelationship we want to have with our families.
We will choose to avoid some family membersbecause they are draining or abusive.
Other relatives will accept us and encourageus on our new path, even though they may not understand or be willing to walk this way with us.
ACA can improve our relationship with ourfamilies with the knowledge that we do not have to participate in their dysfunction.

(29:40):
We are free to live our own lives.
How does this work that you're doing, how hasthis changed your relationship with your parents?
Or the way you approach yourrelationship with your parents, I guess
I will tell you, I hit another bottom.
I mentioned that I had been making all of this progress.

(30:00):
And for the most part, I have beenliving emotionally sober and serene.
Even when I am in dysfunction or the alcoholicis drinking or not emotionally sober.
And I feel very solid with that.
And yet I had a slip.
Welcome to Thanksgiving that we just had in 2024.

(30:23):
The family, all of the family, the whole family, large,about 15 to 20 people, were coming to my new home.
For the first Thanksgiving.
It was a little bit stressful.
I had a couple situations occur.
I have a very small house smaller than my former house.
My oven went out.
My microwave went out.

(30:45):
My fridge was on the fritz.
I have a daughter with a disability who fell andhad a significant injury that morning that we were all just navigating and yet I was using my program and still felt like I could handle things and then the last people to arrive were my parents.
Brum, brum, brum.

(31:05):
Enter parents, right?
and I say that, I can say that laughing, today.
I could not then.
But in this moment, my sister, who is also affected bythe family disease, was outside welcoming, their arrival.
I went out to facilitate as well.
my parents are elderly.
long story short, probably should not be driving.

(31:28):
We'll just leave it at that.
their isms were already in flare in the car on theway here and I as any good child of a family of dysfunction, I knew it right away and could sense it because we are hypersensitive to those things.
and my mom basically pulled up to the house,kicked my dad out of the car before it slowed down.

(31:52):
and me and my sister were around the street tryingto guide her into a very large parking spot.
And I wasn't saying anything, and I wasn'tsaying anything, and I wasn't saying anything.
I was controlling myself.
And then she hit a car and honestly, that waslike the straw that broke my camel's back.
I hate to say it like that because it seemsminimal, but, then I stepped in to help and I'm using air quotes because in Al Anon we step in to help sometimes and hopefully someone can relate.

(32:25):
I had truly helpful intentions and yet all of my toolswere left on the driveway and now I was in the street.
And so, an, altercation, I will say, shewas in her isms, and I was in my isms.
My sister was in her isms, so itwas a whole family party, right?

(32:47):
but, I became very abusive.
regardless of what anyone else was doing, I was verbally,physically, emotionally abusive, and I do not love that.
I have shame about that.
so it took us several minutes to get them in the house.

(33:08):
There were times when I was yelling at her saying youneed to get your shit together Or you're not even welcome in my house And there were times when I was saying, the little kid in me was saying you have no idea how important it is that you Are coming to my house for the holidays.
Very confusing Very unbalanced.

(33:31):
and yet both of those live within me There were times whenI wanted to hurt her, and there were times when I wanted to hug her so bad and wish she knew how much I loved her.
Because there's still a part ofme that really does love her.
Yeah,
It was a circus.
And when I said that, you have no idea howimportant it is for me to have you here.

(33:56):
She has this maniacal laughter come out.
Which takes me right back to my childhood.
And of course she's laughing at mebecause I'm like all over the place.
Anyway, we get them inside the house and I spend another10 minutes by myself on the driveway fuming at myself because I lost my stuff because I lost my sobriety.

(34:19):
My sister came out, tried to calm me down.
She gets it.
She's dabbling in program too.
She gets it.
She went back inside.
I went, my husband was carving the turkey.
Normal family air quotes again, right?
he's I'm gonna make everything.
Okay.
Here.
I'm just gonna pretend none of this happened.
I'm carving the turkey.

(34:40):
Seriously.
while he was carving the Turkey, I knew I had some time.
So I went into my bathroom and hid.
I honestly hid in my bathroom.
I texted my sponsor.
She didn't answer.
of course, major family holiday, I textedone of my program sisters and she called me right away and talked me off the ledge.
And I needed that.
I needed, because I was so upset that I lashed out.

(35:05):
and I couldn't even think about her behavior.
It was all about my behavior.
Anyway, fast forward after this event, Iknew I needed to step into step 1 in Al Anon.
Step 1, I am powerless, right?
And I got all the way into, Iknew I needed to make an amends.
My behavior caused wreckage.

(35:29):
yet I had to work on the willingnessto do that amends, keeping in mind.
I've never done a formal amends withmy parents because there's fear there.
but I knew that this was my behavior,and I needed to forgive myself.
I needed to let go of my behavior because it was killing me.
I was obsessively thinking about what had happened.

(35:52):
I was in the past.
And so in order to move forward, I knowthat I need to go through this process.
So I, I'm working on this with my AlAnon sponsor, writing, writing drafts.
my first draft is always the big, you suck.
I hate you.
So we finally got it down to a, like three sentence amends.

(36:18):
Basically, it was, I know that I wascausing stress in a time that you already had stress and you didn't deserve that.
I wish I had been able to be in control of myself and I couldn't, and I'm sorry for that.
And I want you to know that I am committed toworking on that so that I can forgive myself.

(36:42):
I talk about this with my sponsees all the time.
My amends did not talk about her behavior one bit,
right.
and I have to underline and bold it.
because that's how my amends work.
she did not respond right away.
I did not send it right away.
I wrote it.
I sent it on 1231 last day of the

(37:05):
That's a little bit later than Thanksgiving.
Okay.
but I, some of that was doing the work,
Yeah.
Oh, understood.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And all this time I kept going because myfirst draft of my amends was, and I never want to see you again, kind of language.
My sponsor goes, are you ending the relationship?
Is that what you really want out of this?

(37:26):
And I had to think about that, because there is aplace in me that goes, together we are dysfunctional.
And no matter what I do, there's nothing thatI can do to fix that dysfunction by myself.
By yourself.
by myself.
That's right.
So long story short on all of that is I went to meetings.

(37:50):
I talked about it.
I wrote you.
Hey, do you have, shows about this?
how do you be in a relationship withsomeone who is fully dysfunctional?
I just kept asking the question and I kept talking to God.
I kept talking to my higher power.
What do I need to do here because I didn'tknow what the right solution was going to be and I heard so many things from my fellows.

(38:18):
I heard things like, why do I haveto keep putting myself in harm's way?
I don't need to get in the ring with the 800 pound gorilla.
I know that when I do that, I will lose.
One of us or the other will behave poorly, Ialso, heard from my sponsor and others, just let go of it needing to be and look a certain way.

(38:40):
And okay, I can do that.
That's a little unsatisfying forme, if I'm being honest, you know.
but I also knew what that meant was letgo of the need to draw a hard boundary that says, I never want to see you again.
Or.
You can be in my life.
I don't have to make that decision today.

(39:01):
Bringing that into what I read for the Step 1 summary, thisgave me the permission, it gave me language to understand what I was feeling when it talked about the fact that separating from our dysfunctional family is a healthy act of defiance, challenging the authority of the family lie.

(39:22):
I don't have to put on the mask ofwe are going to be a healthy family.
We're not maybe, probably, I don'thave to make a hard boundary.
I can understand that I need to disconnect fromthe gravitational pull of a dysfunctional home.

(39:43):
It pulls at me.
I feel it.
I want to be in family relationship.
With a family.
I want that.
I can look at myself with grace.
I can look at myself with love and knowthat I'm worthy of having love around me.

(40:05):
I need to make sure to surround myself with peoplewho can have a two way relationship in that way and these people, they can't and so I can acknowledge that.
And just say that I'll do my best to be the kind ofperson that I want to be and acknowledge that my higher power is going to show me how to navigate through this.

(40:32):
But that I don't have to participatein any of their dysfunction.
The end of the story with the Thanksgivingmoment is I sent my amends 1231.
About three days later, my mom senta text back to me that was typical.
I did not have any unrealistic expectationsthat it would be infused with love.

(40:57):
she was the victim.
She was going to finally take the time totake care of herself instead of trying to be in a relationship with me, as the abuser.
and that stung.
If I'm being honest, that stung.
Not surprised.

(41:17):
I have lived my whole life whereshe's telling me that I'm the abuser.
I can acknowledge that.
I can acknowledge that I did haveabusive behavior, but I am not an abuser.
That is not who I am today.
it's not who I want to be.
And I do have remorse for that momentthat I'm working on forgiving myself for.

(41:38):
but I can also acknowledge that I have 100 percent stoppedthe cycle of generational trauma with my own children.
and that is meaningful for me.
So I don't know what's going to come.
I don't know what's going to come.
You know, it's funny.
I live in California and we were goingthrough all of the fires right now and we've had power on power off the whole thing.

(42:03):
And after my mom sent me that text, I was like.
Hey, that's God doing for me what I couldn't do for myself.
He's yeah, I
as long as you didn't have to go move in with her,
I know.
the funny thing was, is right now, like just acouple of days ago, she sent me a text saying, I'm thinking about you with a heart emoji.
And I'm just like, again, not surprised.

(42:25):
Who is this person?
This is the person that is unstable in my life.
I just ask for help and guidance from my higherpower every day on what I'm supposed to do with that.
And I can do nothing.
Do nothing is okay.
One of the things that I hear about theACA program is working on re parenting.

(42:46):
What does this idea of reparenting mean to you now?
. So in Al Anon, it looks like now that I understandmy standard survival skills that I've used in my life and the emotion step 4 work, right?
The emotions, the triggers, how mybehaviors reacted out of those emotions.

(43:10):
Now I can learn to really recognize the emotionas it's coming up and then give myself the love or attention or validation that I need in that moment.
That's in Al Anon terms for me, that's likemanaging my emotions instead of looking externally for somebody else to do that.

(43:31):
Now, when I got into like my ACA thinking, Igo, okay, former voice of critical parent is the the constant running voice in my head.
We think about the tapes, the negative self talk tapes.
It's the critical parent.
It's the, you're not good enough.

(43:52):
You're not going to be good enough.
You weren't good enough in the past.
You'll never be.
Right.
That's what it sounds like.
And so now what I get to acknowledge is, there is a littlechild within me that didn't get that foundational knowledge mirrored back to me that I had goodness, mirrored back to me that it's okay to be human, and we make mistakes sometimes, that doesn't really mean that we're bad.

(44:19):
And that I can love on that little child and go, it's okay.
let's keep going.
There's the inner teen in me that wants tolash out when those emotions come, F you,
have you seen the Pixar movie inside out or inside out 2?
Yes.
I love it.

(44:39):
inner teen.
Oh, my God.
So good.
Yes.
I watched that with my teens and it's just amazing.
I cry through the whole thing, but that's real.
That's some real stuff,
Yes.
That's why we connect with it.
Because, yes, it's real.
We've been there.
We've been there as our own teenagers.
And if we have children, then we've beenthere with them as they're going through this.

(45:02):
That's right.
All the anxiety, all the embarassment.
So, inner teen is the angry one.
I had one very angry outer teen.
Like the last six months he was with us beforecollege, he was living with us on sufferance.
I think it, maybe from both ends of the relationship.
He was going to college, 2000 milesaway and I drove him to the airport.

(45:28):
And I let him off at the curb and said, havea good semester, because that's where we were.
yeah, I have a teen who went through that too.
And I read somewhere along the way that's a normal behavior.
It's a normal, period of detachment behavior.
I was so glad that I read thatbecause I could see it coming,

(45:49):
Their job is to separate from you.
that's right.
It really is.
Yeah.
So inner child, inner teen.
Yeah.
And inner critical parent now.
So we've got the whole damn family there.
Yeah, so it's about the same thing.
It's about being in awareness ofwhat's happening when it's happening.
So that's how I see the spirituality of thisprogram, of all the programs of recovery, is that before I was blindly living life, completely unaware to the things that were triggering me.

(46:22):
And my reactionary thoughts and behaviors.
Now I get to sit in awareness, I get to be present.
I get to be in awareness and see it coming within me, see itbubbling up and taking form and then know that I have tools.
I get to have confidence in the fact that even if discomfortis happening or when it's happening, I can go, it's okay.

(46:49):
I'm going to survive this.
We're going to be okay.
All of those within me, the inner child, theinner teen and me, we're all going to be okay.
And then I can address each one of thoseelements within me for what they need.
Being afraid as a little child, really holding that child.
Swaddling.

(47:09):
I love the swaddling technique.
And sometimes I'll just sit and put my armsaround myself and swaddle and hug and go, you know what, honey, we're gonna be okay.
and sometimes with the inner teen, sometimes I need to rage.
Sometimes the anger within meis so big, it needs to come out.
I'm not gonna do that today on anotherperson, so maybe I go for a run.

(47:32):
Maybe I, go to a rage room and break some stuff, you know.
maybe I listen to some really, rockin music.
all of those are healthy coping strategiesinstead of leaving wreckage in my life,
Rage room, huh?
Yeah, have you ever heard of those?
I've heard of them.
I've never been to one, never seen one.
I don't know if there's any around here.

(47:53):
look it up.
Yeah, that's worth whatever the price is.
Go and take some bats, take somehammers and just break stuff.
Break stuff.
Awesome.
Any concluding words?
Yeah, I think this has been a great journey for me.
I'm glad that I reached out to you in the beginning.
I'm glad that you have listeners.

(48:15):
people that are contributing to your podcastthat talk about these hard relationships because it helped me gain more clarity listening to someone else's experience, strength and hope.
I hope the same that I can pay that forward for others.
I think that's the most wonderful thing.
I don't have a bio family that I can have theseconversations with, but I do have fellows.

(48:37):
I do have a chosen family like you and all ofthe other people living this recovered lifestyle.
And we can have these hard conversations and nothave all the answers, but share with each other.
What did you do?
How does this work for you?
And then I can make my owndecisions about what works for me.
And where I sit today, I just feel reallyat peace, with the fact that I don't have to make hard and fast, decisive boundaries.

(49:06):
That is one of the urges that I have.
Oh, I got to make a boundary and tell them thatthey're not going to be in my life any, you know.
I don't have to do that.
Nobody wants to receive that.
I heard in a meeting, in an ACA meeting, I thinkit was yesterday or the day before that, disease of family dysfunction can be arrested, but never cured.

(49:26):
It was like, Oh, just like alcohol.
Yeah.
So it just helps me.
It helps me be in the present moment when I think aboutit like that, and I know that the only thing that I need to do today is maintain my intentions, walk in grace as much as I possibly can know that I might have flare ups.

(49:49):
Cause life gets crazy sometimes, but I'll do the bestthat I can to manage my own thoughts and behaviors.
That's the only thing I can do here.
My parents, like I said, that it'sgenerational trauma years and years, decades and decades for them, they didn't start it.
I didn't start it.
They didn't start it, but they are, a part of it.

(50:10):
And so what I know today is that theydon't deserve fear living in fear.
They don't deserve living, in,lack of acceptance, lack of love.
None of us do.
I, I just keep asking for my higher powerto give me guidance on how I can show up in that way, whether it's with them or not.

(50:33):
Thank you.
thank you for bringing yourself and yourexperience, strength, and hope to this.
We'll take a little music breakhere or talk about music anyway.
you brought some songs.
What's your first choice?
My first song is by Kelly Clarkson.
It's called piece by piece.
And I just think about this.
All of the lyrics here are about the critical parent,the parent that, tore me down, that didn't love me, that didn't stay, that told me I was terrible and the rebuilding that can happen, with my higher power, with a loving parent voice, I can put myself back together

(51:11):
Piece by piece.
piece by piece.
in this section of the podcast, wetalk about our lives in recovery.
How have we experienced recovery recently?
It's been a week.

(51:31):
late last week, my, my wife and I have a friend who, I'mnot gonna take her inventory, but her life is hard, and it's hard externally, but she seems to make it harder than it needs to be, I'll just say that At the moment, she lives in a place where there's no transportation.
She does not have a car.

(51:52):
And so she needs to get rides for everything.
I was tagged on Thursday to do rides.
So I got to her place and I had tried to call.
The phone went straight to voicemail,so I just, I drove and I got there and I banged on the door and she eventually came.
She's Oh, is it two o'clock already?

(52:12):
She was asleep.
Okay, I'm sitting out in the car listeningto my podcasts and, I know she'll come out.
Anyway, everything with this person takeslonger than I feel like it needs to.
she's a nice person.
She's a caring person, but everything takes longer.
The thing that was happening at the end of theerrands was I was going to drop her off at my wife's office where she would do her taxes.

(52:41):
Because that's what my wife doesthis time of year, is people's taxes.
I would just say my wife was getting more and morepissed off about the situation as we got later and later.
it was supposed to be like, 3.
30 we were going to be at heroffice, and I think it was about 5.
30 before we got there.
but, they got the taxes done and everything.

(53:02):
, I just had to use almost all my tools, I don't know, I know.
this person.
I know how she is.
I know how long it takes her to get things done.
and I have to sit there inacceptance that this is what it is.
This is what it's going to be.
and I'm sitting there on a bench in the grocery storewaiting for her to do her grocery shopping and thinking, how long does it take to buy, you know, and then I'm like, okay.

(53:29):
It is what it is.
So that was Thursday.
Friday, on the other hand, I wentto a concert that was just so good.
I had a great time.
The Saturday meeting that I go to is hybridand we split into two zoom rooms, one of which is the people who are physically in the meeting and anybody who wants to join them.

(53:51):
And the other is completely online.
The online group is currently working through the bookReaching for Personal Freedom, which is a workbook on the steps, traditions, and concepts of Al Anon.
And we are in the concepts.
which is all about how, Al-Anon as anorganization, as a business entity works.

(54:15):
Principles for that.
And there's 12 of them because you got to have 12.
We're looking at concept 10.
This book has a reading about the concept and thenit has, little shares where somebody shares about how they applied this concept in some situation in their life, and then they have questions.

(54:36):
And so we read, and then we answer the question, andwe get through one or two questions in a meeting, and we're going at the pace of getting done.
Anyway, we're going at the pace that weneed to go at to spend the amount of time we need to do to look at each of these.
and sometimes it's I got nothing for this question.
Okay.

(54:57):
Move on.
So concept 10 says service responsibility isbalanced by carefully defined service authority and double headed management is avoided.
so the first thing is what theheck is double headed management?
That's we got two people who areboth trying to manage process.
One of the examples was this woman says, Hey, I,I put these brick border around my flower beds.

(55:19):
And then I gave my husband like very clear instructionsabout how he was supposed to do the edging.
And he did it his way.
and I said, Hey, you didn't follow my instructions.
He said, look, he says, you want to do it your way.
You can do it your way.
Otherwise I'm going to do it my way.
And she's oh, okay.
I gave him the job.
Now I need to, let him do it.
but I was thinking about some situationsin my life where this crops up.

(55:43):
Particularly between me and my wife, it's not alwaysclear who is responsible for a particular thing.
And sometimes neither of us does it.
Not so good.
And sometimes both of us try to do it.
We've engaged a landscaping firm to, make ouryard pretty after 30 years of just random growth.

(56:04):
We pay them to come and do cleanup andspread new mulch and stuff like that.
They did that in the fall.
They did two things in the fall, and they sent us twoseparate bills for the two things they did, and I paid one of them and not the other, and so then we had this back and forth about, hey, you need to pay this invoice.
I had a back and forth with, their accountant,where he explained that, Oh, there were two bills that the number was like one digit apart.

(56:30):
So it's not surprising.
I got confused and they both came at the same time.
and I'm like, Oh, okay.
I understand now and I'll pay the other one.
But meanwhile, my wife doesn't see this correspondenceand she jumps in to try to get her understanding of what happened or didn't happen and what we need to do.
And I just took a breath.
I said, Sorry, I had this correspondencewith the office manager that you were not in the loop on, so you didn't understand.

(56:57):
It's all set, and we're good.
But I was like, yeah, that's double headedmanagement because the responsibility was not clear.
I didn't step up and say, I'm taking care of this.
You don't need to worry about it.
I just started taking care of it.
I think there's a pattern there.
I maybe have to think about that a little bit.

(57:18):
Whatever we're looking at somehow, I always havea situation in my life that I can apply it to.
It's just amazing how, appropriate sometimesthese things are to, to life in general.
When you say that, I'm thinking about my sponsor.
She always says, one butt in one chair, becausethe other side of double headed management for me is trying to be in every single chair

(57:42):
Yes.
and I need to let go and onlytake my chair's responsibilities.
So that's a couple of things from my life recently.
How about you?
I mean, you had the fires.
Oh my God.
I assume you had to use some program principlesto, to get through that without going crazy.
for sure.

(58:02):
Yeah, a lot of it is about letting go.
letting go and really the serenity prayer.
There's only so many things in a day when it'sespecially crazy in the community like that.
There are only so many things thatwe do have the power to control.
we literally were powerless.
Our power was turned off for several days at a time,then on again, inevitably I'd go grocery shopping on Sunday, power goes off Monday through Thursday.

(58:28):
It is a little bit tricky to navigate that, with grace.
And low frustration levels.
But, we just do what we can because there'snot a lot that you can do to control it.
We take care.
We watch apps that tell us wherethe regions are for, activity.
One of the nights we did have to pack or we didn'thave to pack, but one of the nights we came home and decided to pack bags because one was in an area close enough that if something happened overnight, we wanted to wake up and be prepared.

(59:01):
Luckily, we packed our bags, we surrendered, andHP said, Nope, you're not going anywhere tonight.
It's actually on my list of things to do to unpackthat bag today and put it all back in the closet.
it never ends.
I think that's just a lesson because we don't know whennatural disasters are going to strike and then in meetings, a lot of people have emotions and have reactions when the natural disasters or community events are happening.

(59:28):
So we think about, is this an outside issue?
And one of my sisters in program has said,Oh, I used to call my sponsor and go, Oh, I'm calling, but this isn't an Al Anon issue.
And finally, her sponsor said, look,honey, everything is an Al Anon issue.
Welcome to Al Anon.
If you're living life and you're affected bypeople, places, or things, it's an Al Anon issue.

(59:49):
Our reactionary thinking and behavior,Al Anon related tools can serve that.
So I think that's been helpful too.
We can only be so prepared.
So we serenity prayer, we take thecourage to prepare in the way that we can.
And then we have the serenity to let goof the things that we cannot control.
And that's ever present.

(01:00:10):
One other thing I want to mention to you thathas happened recently out of this work that I did, in ACA step one, part of it is looking at the family, the family tree, so to speak.
So you map out your family and lookat where the dysfunctional traits are.
And in that activity, I had always I have my momhas a sister who has always been my favorite.

(01:00:32):
And I always fantasized about beingher family instead of my family.
with the assumption that her familywas way better than my family.
I don't know if that's true or not.
It's my fantasy and said, hey, I'm doing some emotional.
and psychological work on myself.
I have a few questions about yourupbringing and my mom's upbringing.

(01:00:54):
Can you shed some light on that?
Would you be willing to talk about it?
Anyway, she immediately said yes.
We immediately, scheduled a phone call.
Since then, she came over to my house and we sat andtalked for a couple of hours and we have rekindled.
We both talked about our relationshipwith our family and It's the same family.

(01:01:16):
It has the same dysfunctional, stuff here.
This is a family disease.
she's born the brunt just like I have of mymom's, narcissist kind of behavior frequently.
And I grew up thinking I was the only one andshe dealt with it thinking she was the only one.
And so I will say, just like fellowshipin Al Anon, we're not the only one.

(01:01:41):
I got this really beautiful experience of paying my AlAnon lessons forward to my aunt who is, in her 70s, doesn't have the same recovery kind of experience that I do.
And I could look at her and go, that's not yours.
I'm sorry that you had that experience.
That's not yours.
That's hers.

(01:02:02):
And, if.
If we can commune and we can getcloser, that would be so amazing.
And so we have, and it's just been really cool.
It has been salve on my heart in a way that I really didn't.
Imagine that's just a gift from my higher power.
I never thought of that solution.
My higher power did,
You never know.
Do you?
no,

(01:02:22):
Right.
Looking forward in the podcast, we're stillin the middle of going through the steps.
We're taking a little break here,but, we'll be back to the steps.
Step eight coming up next.
So we welcome your thoughts.
You can join our conversation, leave a voicemail orsend us an email with your feedback or questions, or if you want to sit down and talk about step eight with me.

(01:02:43):
Let me know.
Heather, how can people send us feedback?
you can send a voice memo oremail to feedback at the recovery.
show.
Or if you prefer, you can call and leaveus a voicemail at 7 3 4 7 0 7 8 7 9 5.
You can also use the voicemail button on thewebsite to join the conversation from your computer.

(01:03:07):
We'd love to hear from you, share your experience,strength and hope or your questions about today's topic or any of our upcoming topics.
If you have a topic you'd likeus to talk about, let us know.
If you'd like advanced notice for some of ourtopics so that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback at the recovery dot show.

(01:03:29):
Please put the quote email in thesubject line to make it easier to spot.
Yeah.
And of course our website is therecovery.
show.
We have all the information about the show, whichis, as I say, mostly notes for each episode.
Now that we're up in the four hundredsand, outnumber everything else.
and in the show notes, there will be linksto the books that, Heather read from.

(01:03:51):
There will be videos for the music that she chose.
And also on the website, you can find somelinks to other recovery podcasts and websites.
All of that information aboutthis episode is at therecovery.
show slash 428.
What is the second song you chose?
The second song I chose is You Can't Lose Me by Faith Hill.

(01:04:13):
And I picked this one because I remember one of the periodsof time that I spent time not talking to my parents.
I was driving out in the early morningfrom California, leaving the state.
I was doing a geographic, Boundary there andlistening to the song, just bawling, talking about you, you can't lose me in the love of a parent.

(01:04:34):
And I was telling myself, I don'thave that poor me, I don't have that.
And now when I listened to this song, I've really builtthis loving parent relationship with my higher power.
And now I listen to this song as though myhigher power is singing it to me and saying.
You'll never lose me.

(01:04:54):
I am always here with you andit just gives me so much solace.
We love to hear from you.
I have email from Kerry who sent.
a poem she wrote, titled Hurricane.

(01:05:15):
You show up, a hurricane, I cannot think.
You show up, a tornado, I fall to my knees.
You show up, a whirling dervish of accusations.
Proof, show me proof, you can't, you can't, ha!
You fume, rage, spew, accuse.
Hearts on sidewalks.

(01:05:35):
Lungs on pavement.
I want to find secret portals where I go backin time to ease your boy's heart and head.
But you are not a boy anymore.
You are a man.
You are a man.
You are a man.
You are a man who for some time hasbeen without a job, a place to live.
None of it is your fault.

(01:05:55):
None of it is your fault.
None of it is your fault.
Insert name of the last person who fucked you over.
None of it is your fault.
Your apologies come served with a But I'm sorry for howI acted but I don't have a crazy ex girlfriend anymore.
I'm sorry for being selfish, but I was 17 and didn't care.

(01:06:18):
You were 17 11 years ago
I've heard parents cry.
My 40 year old daughter wants to move home and I'mgoing to have to tell her No, we tried when she was 25 30 35 each time was a disaster My 51 year old son won't leave, and I have to change the locks.
He's going to be so mad at me.
I am scared of him.

(01:06:40):
My 47 year old daughter is on life support.
My 60 year old son got into afight with my 80 year old husband.
We lost one of our sons.
I'm raising my grandchildren.
I have seen the future.
Handmaiden to chaos.
No, I won't play dress up with you.
No, I won't sign you up for anchor management.

(01:07:02):
We raised you for 18 years and we put you throughcollege and performed the whole laundry list of parental tasks that were never ending with you.
Blah, blah, blah.
Martyrdom is overrated.
Martyrdom is boring.
But that was on us, not you.
We were so dumb.
We knew better.
We were the good parents.
We knew better.

(01:07:23):
We knew nothing.
I want to nurture my own heart and head, butI can't create or think when chaos shows up.
Wash my clothes.
Charge my phone.
Take me here.
Drop me off.
Make me a copy of my passport.
Sorry about the window.
Just five dollars.
Just ten dollars.
I'll pay you back.
Can I have the car?
I need the car.
Give me the car or else.

(01:07:44):
I'm just kidding.
Geez, fine.
I'm going to drop a pin so you can pick me up.
I just need 30.
Bring me 30 to the laundromat.
Why not?
Why not?
Why not?
Just find me and bring me my stuff.
I'm here.
I'm here.
Where's my phone?
Where's my mail?
Where's my ABT card?
I lost my phone again.

(01:08:04):
Hey, I love you.
Hey, I love you.
Hey, I love you.
I'll be back and there's nothing you can do about it.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Drop a pin.
Drop a pin.
Drop a pin.
Hey, I love you.
Drop a pin.
I'll be back and there's nothing you can do about it.
You'd better drop the restraining order now.
Drop a pin.

(01:08:25):
You were the good parents.
You knew better.
You knew nothing.
Drop a pin.
Drop a pin.
Drop a pin.
Drop.
Thank you, Kelly, for that window intothe life of the parent of an addict.
Thank you.

(01:08:46):
Teal left us a voicemail.
Hi there, Spencer.
My name is Teal and I just listened to episode 203and I find it super interesting that you involve our voices and our feedback and our opinion.
So I just wanted to call and say thankyou so much for putting together the recovery show and sharing your experiences.

(01:09:08):
I am a adult child of an alcoholic,and in fact, actually too.
My parents were divorced when I was three and my daddidn't talk about his alcoholism until a lot longer.
I didn't find out until I was a young adult and my motherwas the problem parent growing up, with all the typical erratic behaviors and, As Diana said when she was talking, the toddler on the highway, I don't know if Diana will ever hear this, but I just wanted to know that I really

(01:09:40):
appreciate her talking about how she does her best andhow she sets a limit and has made the choice to involve her mother still in her life, but for five minutes here or there, and to have those boundaries that are healthy,
but because she's the only person in her mom's life,that's how I feel too, And I appreciate her talking about how the expectation is that there will be a relationship, but her mother same as mine will never be a mother to me.

(01:10:07):
And it was just really helpful to hear that.
So I'm going to be looking into the ACA andjust continue to listen to your show, but just want to know that you're making a difference.
So thank you so much.
Thank you, Teal, for sharing that.
I hope you do find a program, and that ithelps you, as it has helped so many of us.
Episode 203 was titled Adult Children of Alcoholics.

(01:10:30):
Emily was my guest for that episode.
Kerry wrote again later.
Hi Spencer, I heard Liz Coin onyour show, and she was great.
I shared it with my adult kids, who aresiblings of an older brother still out there, which is hard to believe, but the truth.
I wrote a middle grade novel for siblings everywherewho might be dealing with another sibling's struggles.

(01:10:51):
I only was able to write it whenI embraced my powerlessness.
It's taken more of a decade, and honestly, longer than that.
The book that Kerry wrote is titled Werewolf Hamlet,the story of Angus Gettlefinger, a fifth grade boy minding his own business, mostly, and living his fifth grade life, who would like his big brother, Liam, to start acting like a normal brother again.

(01:11:13):
Preferably by Friday.
It is available, on Amazon and itpresumably at other outlets as well.
I will leave an Amazon link inthe show notes at the recovery.
show slash 428.
David wrote, hi, Spencer.
I do not see any shows on being aservice sponsor on your list of episodes.

(01:11:35):
I have used one in my days of area service and havealso served as a service sponsor to two others.
Great idea, but one doesn't hear a lotabout it, but it might be useful information for your show to put out there on.
What is a service sponsor?
How does a service sponsor differ from a regular sponsor?
What service positions might benefitfrom using a service sponsor?

(01:11:55):
What tools or materials does a service sponsor use?
What should service sponsors not do?
Are there members who have benefited from having a servicesponsor, and if so, can they share their experience?
Are there members who have been service sponsors,and what tips or suggestions and experience can they share as to what they find works well?
Thanks to you in the show and all who have participated.

(01:12:17):
David.
thanks David for that suggestion.
I can put that out to the collective.
I have done service, but I actuallyhave not had a separate service sponsor.
I actually am acting as an informalservice sponsor to a friend in program.
Who's got a new service position that I used to have.

(01:12:37):
so this could be interesting.
We got a voicemail from Bart,
hi.
Yeah, my name is Bart I'm a volunteerand president with Mar-anon.
And Mar-anon is a marijuana equivalent of Al Anon.
So it's a 12 step program just like Al Anon, butinstead of, alcohol, we, deal with people who have loved ones who have a cannabis use disorder, either in recovery from cannabis use disorder or not.

(01:13:07):
Just like again, Al Anon, but again, for marijuana.
And I'd be, happy to talk to someoneabout possibly, going on your podcast.
Our website is Mar-anon.
com.
So it's M A R hypen A N O N.
Thank you Bart, and Bart is actually goingto be appearing in, the next episode but one, episode 430, talking about Mar-anon with me.

(01:13:34):
And that's it for today.
Heather, again, thank you for joining me todayfor our conversation about your experience separating and I think recreating, to some extent, the relationship with your parents.
Does that sound right?
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
Yeah, I think, what helps me really is justreally understanding the old thinking that I could fix this on my own and really getting clarity about the fact that this is way bigger than me.

(01:14:08):
There's no way that I can fix this on my own.
Maybe my higher power will takeme, and guide me in a direction.
And that remains to be seen.
More will be revealed.
which brings us to your third song.
Okay.
Our last song selection is Higher Power byColdplay, which you can listen to at therecovery.

(01:14:30):
show slash 428.
And I love the lyrics of this song.
It starts off with sometimes I justcan't take it, but it really goes.
Through the process of reminding me, I have a higher power.
It's all right.
It's all right.
I've have a higher power.

(01:14:50):
It's repetitive, but really it just takes me back.
When for so long, I've been down on my kneesand then your love song saved me over and over.
I have a higher power.
It's beautiful.
Thank you for listening.
Please keep coming back.

(01:15:10):
Whatever your problems, there arethose among us who have had them too.
If we did not talk about a problem you arefacing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode.
May understanding, love, and peacegrow in you one day at a time.