Step 12: A Journey into Spiritual Awareness – 439

Spencer and Eric explore Step 12, “Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.” We follow the reading on the step from the book How Al-Anon Works for Families and Friends of Alcoholics, interleaving it...

The post Step 12: A Journey into Spiritual Awareness – 439 appeared first on The Recovery Show.

Episode Transcript

Spencer (00:00):
Have you had a spiritual awakening?
How do you carry the message ofrecovery and how are you practicing recovery principles in your own life?
Welcome to episode 4 39of the Recovery Show.
This episode is brought toyou by Amy, Megan and Alba.
They use the donationbutton on our website.
Thank you, Amy, Megan and Albafor your generous contributions.

(00:23):
This episode is for you.
We are friends and family members ofalcoholics and addicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness.
We who live or have lived with theseemingly hopeless problem of addiction, understand as perhaps few others can.
So much depends on our ownattitudes, and we believe that changed attitudes can aid recovery.

Eric B (00:42):
Before we begin, we'd like to state that in this show we represent ourselves rather than any 12 step program.
During this show, we willshare our own experiences.
The opinions expressed here are certainlythose of the person who gave them.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
We hope that you'll find something inour sharing that speaks to your life.

Spencer (01:03):
My name is Spencer.
I am your host today, along with Eric,who has co-hosted so many episodes.
Our most recent one was Griefand Relief, episode 4 29.

Eric B (01:14):
I just wrote down, umpteenth.

Spencer (01:17):
Yeah.
It's 40 something.

Eric B (01:19):
Yeah.
Last time you said 40 some odd.
And I said, yeah, somemuch odder than others.

Spencer (01:24):
Always true.
Always, especially with you.

, Eric B (01:28):
Some have been very odd indeed.

Spencer (01:30):
We're going to be reading today from the book how Al-Anon works, which I have always thought of as the Al-Anon text.
This is chapter eight, titled the 12Steps, and the section titled Step 12.
This is on pages 63 to 65 ish,depending which edition of the book you have apparently.

(01:50):
We'll read a paragraph and thentalk about what that brings to us.

Step 12 is (01:54):
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
First paragraph says,
This step implies that byworking all of the steps, we will undergo a spiritual awakening.
Although a spiritual awakening is ahighly personal experience, many of us define it as a kind of transformation, a radical change in perception that occurs as a result of our taking the steps.

(02:25):
Sometimes a spiritual awakening happensabruptly in a flash of insight or the instantaneous removal of an obsession, and the whole world suddenly looks new.
More commonly, though, we experiencea gradual awakening of the spirit, a gentle metamorphosis in the way we see ourselves and others, a slow and subtle unfolding of our own inner beauty.

(02:47):
Some of us actually feel reborn, hopeful,free of the fears and burdens that had previously prevented us from truly living.
Thus, although our circumstances maynot have changed, our lives improved dramatically because we perceive them in a new and clearer way.
What do you hear in this paragraph?

Eric B (03:06):
The first thing that comes to mind, having really intentionally not prepared like I typically would do with, hours and hours because this one is what it is.
It's, gradual, in most cases.
And it's from doing the work, it'sfrom doing the work on a daily basis.
And it's no longerwork . It's a misnomer for me.

(03:28):
It's a way of life.

Spencer (03:30):
How do you know that you've had one?
How do you know that you've had one?

Eric B (03:35):
here's my answer to that.
It may sound strange.
It feels constant.
I don't think it's one.
I think for me now it's all the time,

Spencer (03:45):
Okay.

Eric B (03:46):
every minute I am aware and awake.
And it's not always, certainly notall the time, that's a misstatement.
But, they're now on a dailybasis and even sometimes hourly, just by noticing, the shape or something, the shadow of something.
The picture of on my TV screen rightnow of these four horses, screensaver, the beauty of my beloved Rudy sleeping next to me under my sheet.

(04:17):
These are not manmade.
The light streaming through my window,free of fears and burdens that had previously prevented us from truly living.
Man, I'm living my best life right now.
It's not perfect, but it feels likeI'm living my best life every day now.
I've shared this before and I love it.
A friend, had a daughter in recovery andshe was probably in her late twenties.

(04:40):
He had just started an Al-Anon and hesaid to his daughter, you've been straight and sober now for like nine years, since you were 20, 21 years old, and you still go to a meeting sometimes two a day.
Why do you need to do that?
Why do you do that?
And her answer is whatmakes me think of this.
Her answer was, I wannasee how awake I can get.

(05:02):
What a good answer.

Spencer (05:03):
Yeah.
can I add something in here?

Eric B (05:06):
sure.
Please.

Spencer (05:07):
I heard this story before, so I looked it up.
It is said that soon after hisenlightenment, the Buddha passed, a man on the road who was struck by the extraordinary radiance and peacefulness of his presence.
The man stopped and asked, myfriend, what are you, are you a celestial being or a God?
No, said the Buddha.
Well then are you somesort of magician or wizard?

(05:28):
Again, the Buddha answered, no.
Are you a man?
No.
Well, my friend, what are you then?
I am awake.
That just struck me, like this wholeprocess of awakening to become awake.
Like, yes.
What it says here, we perceiveour lives in a new and clearer way, and the, and they improve.

(05:54):
When.
I was working the steps out of Paths ToRecovery, the first question for step 12 is, have you had a spiritual awakening?
Oh, I had to think about it.
because mine was not the sudden thing.
It was the gradual transformation.
But like it says here, I live my lifedifferently than I did before, and I view that as evidence of awakening.

(06:20):
And back to you.

Eric B (06:23):
Yeah.
and really awareness, it's theability to pause and think and choose a response and not react.
That to me is my program giving me backall and more than I could have asked for.
it's a gift.
I mean, read that, page 2 67, FromSurvival to Recovery . All of those gifts, all those promises, virtually every one of them has come through for

(06:49):
me, our life no longer living in fear,blossoms into new beginnings and we will laugh more and, no longer petrified.
All of them.

Spencer (07:01):
Yeah.

Eric B (07:02):
Right here I think would be a great place to put this poem.
I think it really sumsup for me this step.
It hit me the other day, like, you know,I often say like a brick, maybe not a ton of bricks, maybe just one big brick.
It was narrated by AnthonyHopkins, who as I've said, I could listen to him, just read the phone book, with the way he speaks.

(07:24):
. It begins.
I asked God to take away my habit.
God said, no, it is not for me totake away, but for you to give it up.
I asked God to make myhandicap child whole.
God said, no.
His spirit is whole.
His body is only temporary.
I asked God to grant me patience.

(07:45):
God said, no.
Patience is a byproduct of tribulations.
It isn't granted.
It is learned.
I asked God to give me happiness.
God said, no, I give you blessings.
Happiness is up to you.
I asked God to spare me pain.
God said, no suffering drawsyou apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to me.

(08:11):
I asked God to make my spirit grow.
God said, no.
You must grow on your own.
I will prune.
To make you fruitful.
I asked God for all thingsthat I might enjoy life.
God said, no, I will give you lifeso that you may enjoy all things.

(08:32):
I asked God to help me loveothers as much as he loves me.
God said, haha.
Finally, you have the idea,
As you said once.
I'm not gonna pray and ask God for a pony.
I'm just gonna try to love more andgive more and be willing to support, not ask for things, but offer things.

(09:00):
So that's what I get outof that first paragraph.

Spencer (09:05):
I will put, a couple of links in the show notes at the recovery dot show slash 4 39.
One to the YouTube video with the reading.
One to the text of thepoem, on the internet.
It looks like there's multiple poemsout there called I Asked God, so make sure I get you a link to the right one.

Eric B (09:26):
Cool.
There's a couple of Courageto Change readings.
I thought about justparaphrasing right here.

Spencer (09:33):
The first paragraph of this reading on January 26th, captures something that I always have to remind myself about what Step 12 says.
It says, I'd read the 12th step manytimes before I saw it, but there it was, having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps.
The result.

(09:53):
What a promise.
If I worked these steps, I'dhave a spiritual awakening.
There was hope, even for me.
Somebody said to me, you know, theonly promise that's in the steps, is it we'll have a spiritual awakening.

Eric B (10:10):
Yeah,

Spencer (10:11):
there are other promises that are associated with the steps from, the aa big book and from some Al-Anon literature, but this is the only promise that's actually in the steps, and it is a promise that's in the steps.
It says you will havea spiritual awakening

Eric B (10:24):
yeah.
Will,

Spencer (10:25):
these steps.
say, doesn't say you might.

Eric B (10:27):
not even.
Maybe, hopefully not.
No, you will.

Spencer (10:30):
Yeah.
what it really says is we had one, but,

Eric B (10:33):
Yeah.
yeah,

Spencer (10:34):
and that's one of the things that I often say when we're doing a first step in a meeting is, I didn't understand how working the 12 steps would
fix the problems in my life or would helpme at all, but you guys said it helped you and I have to believe that it did.

(10:56):
And so that makes it worth giving a try.
And it helped me, sonow I'm passing it on.
And that, that takes us to laterpart of the, of the step, right.

Eric B (11:07):
I'm gonna read the quote at the bottom of that page.
From As We Understood, aply titled.
The first time I ever heard the 12 stepsread at a meeting, I became very still.
I felt I was not breathing, I wasjust listening with my whole being.
I knew deep within me that I was home.

Spencer (11:30):
Wow.
That person woke up alot earlier than I did.
It took me a long time.
I
felt home, but it wasn't about the steps,

Eric B (11:38):
yeah, right.
Anyway, good stuff.

Spencer (11:40):
You wanna read the second paragraph

Eric B (11:42):
Paragraph two.
Before coming to Al-Anon, few ofus would have believed that such a transformation was possible.
Having been affected by a disease thatrobbed us of our dreams, paralyzed us with fear and rage, or numbed our emotions.
We doubted that there was anyreason to hope for a better life.
Nonetheless, as a result of the Al-Anonprogram and its 12 steps, we've become living proof that miracles happen Naturally, we want to share our personal

(12:10):
message of hope with any friends orfamily members of alcoholics who still suffer the effects of another's drinking.
Some of us would never have found thiswonderful way of life had it not been for the generous sharing and encouragement of other Al-Anon members, and we are more than grateful for any opportunity to pass this gift on to others who may need it.

Spencer (12:32):
Yeah.

Eric B (12:33):
Yeah.

Spencer (12:34):
You bolded.
These words robbed us of ourdreams and paralyzed us with fear and rage, or numbed our emotions.
That was me.
I don't know about being robbed of dreams,although, life was certainly not going the way that I had envisioned it going.
and I was full of fear and rage I don'tknow about numbed emotions, but it certainly covered up other emotions.

(13:00):
We doubted there was any reasonto hope for a better life.
I don't know about hoped for, Icouldn't see how to get out of this.
Right.
We became living proofthat miracles happened.
So this is like, the beginning of myAl-Anon experience and the beginning of true recovery in Al-Anon for me, is yeah, miracles happened.

(13:22):
The changes that came in my life as aresult of going to meetings, reading the literature, getting a sponsor and working the steps were not things that I had ever been able to do for myself, you know?
yeah, we want to carry it out.
We wanna tell people about it.
This, you gotta try this.
I remember my wife was in aresidential treatment program for several months, and I would go over every Wednesday while she was there.

(13:53):
They would have friends and familymeetings and in the morning there was some kinda lecture, and later there was like a group therapy session.
I remember telling another couplewho had come in because their kid was in the recovery program, I think, you really should go to Al-Anon.
It's wonderful.
I love it.
I think they went and didn't like it.

(14:15):
And didn't come back.
And I was like, I don't understand.
Why are you not loving it?
Why are you not, you know?
'cause I was in the early sortof, I don't know, you might call it, pink cloud days of Al-Anon and especially since my wife was safely in recovery, at not in the house, I'm sure that colored it, even pinker.
And I think that leads intothe next paragraph, so I'll pass on that for the moment,

Eric B (14:39):
Yeah, when you were talking, I just wrote, maybe it was the beginning of hope.
There was somewhere that people spoke,and read, and had stories that were remarkably similar, to what, I would never have believed anyone would understand.
Believe me, I tried to talk toeveryone that would listen and they all said, you, you have a problem that nobody wants to talk about.

(15:07):
Someone actually said that to me, A

Spencer (15:08):
Really?

Eric B (15:09):
you, have a problem no one wants to talk about.

Spencer (15:11):
Ugh.

Eric B (15:12):
like, fuck.
And then I found the rooms and that'swhere everybody wants to talk about it

Spencer (15:18):
Right.

Eric B (15:19):
no one else understands it.
nobody that is not living in thisdreadful family illness, understands it.
Just tell her to stop drinking,get a divorce, leave her, take the kids, take her to court.
None of that worked.
I did it all.
Restraining orders.
None of it worked.

(15:40):
Like I've said many times, I gotthat every book I said, sponsor told me stand on one foot bark like a dog spin in the circle.
I'll say, lemme know when to stop.
I'm gonna do whatever you tell me to do.
I was, had a GOD gift of desperationand it just, started to work.
It just, I started to feel better andnot try to fix everything that was wrong.

(16:05):
And believe me, like you said, it tookyears and years and it still goes on.
Look, I still have troubles, Istill have issues, I still have challenges . Everybody does.
You know, life on life's terms doesn'tend when you just find a couple terms.
there's more.
So let's move on.

Spencer (16:24):
Okay, third paragraph here.

Eric B (16:25):
Yep.

Spencer (16:26):
It is important, however, to remember that the message we carry is the result of working all the steps and applying them to every aspect of our lives.
When we first came to Al-Anon,many of us wished to carry the message to others before taking even the first step ourselves.
Others used this part of the 12 stepto justify their efforts to push the alcoholic into a treatment program.

(16:48):
But in time as we work the steps, werealize that we cannot carry a message we have not learned for ourselves.
In the meantime, we can carry the messageof experience, strength, and hope, every time we share at an Al-Anon meeting, make or accept a program, telephone call, or perform a service for our group.
Each of us has a great dealto offer others, and that will only grow as we grow.

(17:13):
I've been coming toAl-Anon for a while, right?
I know why I am still here.
I'm still here because mylife will get worse if I don't continue to work this program.
And one of the ways, for me,of working this program is regular meeting attendance.
Also reading literature and, oh, I don'tknow, doing a podcast or something.

(17:33):
Outside of that, what's importantis that there were people in a meeting when I decided to come to a meeting, when I decided I actually needed to try this Al-Anon thing.
There were people there.
And there are people today, thatare maybe gonna try Al-Anon for the first time today or tomorrow, and somebody needs to be there for them, and I need to be part of that.

(18:02):
I think about the Al-Anon declaration,which I know some meetings read at the end of the meeting, or at least is on a table tent, which says, Let it begin with me.
When anyone anywhere reaches out forhelp, let the hands of Al-Anon and Alateen always be there and let it begin with me.
I can't rely on you or anybody else inthe program to be there for somebody.

(18:26):
The only person I canrely on to be there is me.
And that doesn't mean I have to bethere all the time for everybody.
but I also can't slack thatduty because, it's a carry it forward kind of a program, right?
That is part of this carrying themessage, just freaking being there in a meeting when a newcomer shows up.
I
know you've done some otherparts of carrying the message.

Eric B (18:50):
I guess, you know, referring to public outreach?
it was really early.
I wanna say it was the first second,maybe second year, when two guys came around to all the meetings in my district and talked about, forming some kind of group to do public outreach.
That was the very first time Iever reached out to you and said, have you ever done an episode?

(19:11):
I just came across your podcast.
I'm getting so much outta listeningto you and your guests and you said, no, we haven't done public outreach.
Why don't you join meand we'll do it together?
What?
Yeah.
I wasn't expecting that,

Spencer (19:26):
and here you are.
This was 2015, so hereyou are, 10 years later.

Eric B (19:31):
Yeah.
Yeah, that was our first,and I've been involved public outreach pretty much from then on.
'cause I kept hearing what I wantedto do, which I wish I had heard, which is I wish I'd known sooner.
My last three years have beenfor the area, for Connecticut.
And there were some challengesand that was one of our episodes.
Some challenges, but in hindsight alsoa lot of growth and really digging deep into, concepts of service and warranties.

(19:59):
there was more growth.
there's always more ways to grow.
How awake can I get?
The answer is more, I canalways get more awake.

Spencer (20:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
Why don't you read paragraph four then.

Eric B (20:14):
Okay.
Most of us came to Al-Anon to cope witha specific alcohol related problem.
When we first learned a newAl-Anon principle or practice, we immediately applied it to that most troubling area of our lives.
But as we recover, as alcoholism and itseffect no longer dominate our thoughts, we find these spiritual principles apply not only to alcoholic situations, but to all aspects of our lives.

(20:41):
An Al-Anon slogan can help toresolve conflict with a coworker.
A step may clarify what actions weneed to take in legal dispute or may identify a long buried desire and make possible to achieve.
A tradition can guide us inestablishing household rules or running a business meeting.
In Al-Anon's book, In All Our Affairs,members from all over the world speak of the many difficult situations that often accompany alcoholic relationships.

(21:10):
Infidelity, financial problems,physical and sexual abuse, divorce, and other challenges, and the Al-Anon principles that help them to cope.

Spencer (21:20):
You know what I'm gonna interject, an email that I got from David.

Eric B (21:25):
Good.

Spencer (21:26):
He says, hi Spencer.
Thank you for the podcastand for your service.
There we go.
Service.
What I would like to hear as partof this show is a simple explanation and listing of what are the Al-Anon principles, not only how have you practiced them, but what are they, and.
He referred back to show number 94, whichI had to go back and look at, where you not only defined spirituality, but you also put forth a list of 11 spiritual practices with a few sentences about each.

(21:55):
I have not found in any of the Al-Anonliterature anything that contains a simple explanation and list of the principles, at least for how my brain works.
That would be helpful.
Thanks David.
so yeah, what are these principles?
I found, an article on an AAwebsite, the 12 Spiritual Principles.
He says, Bill W considered each step tobe a spiritual principle in and of itself.

(22:20):
And I've seen that interpretation inthe literature in many different places.
Like what he really means hereis we continue to practice these steps in all our affairs.
But then, in the AA 12 and 12, whichwas written 15 years later, he outlines spiritual principles behind each step, which are also called virtues.

(22:45):
And there we find this list of honesty,hope, faith, courage, integrity, willingness, humility, love, discipline, patience and perseverance, awareness and service associated with the steps.
And I'll put that list in the show notes.
So that's a way that otherpeople have interpreted, what it means by these principles.

(23:09):
What do you read from this paragraph?
How do you see thisshowing up in your life?
Wow.

Eric B (23:13):
I, like everything, it's a way of life.
It's, what you do when you're in traffic.
What do you do when you'relong line at the grocery store.
What do you do when, as I often say, whenI'm late, everybody's driving too slow.

Spencer (23:29):
Oh yeah,

Eric B (23:30):
that's not their problem, that I'm late.
it's really a way of life.
people go to church to behave ina better way of life and to, have compassion and empathy and sympathy.

Spencer (23:43):
I see that we have actually done two episodes titled in All Our Affairs.

Eric B (23:48):
We have.

Spencer (23:48):
One was 2 0 1, and then 365,

Eric B (23:54):
I'll read this, just this one.
I go back to this quite often.
It's from, of course, the book In AllOur Affairs, and it's page 28 and 29.
When I fully gave up and let my higherpower take over, I began to relax.
I had to be put in a powerlesssituation before I realized that I had no control over alcohol or the alcoholic could I really trust in someone greater than myself?

(24:21):
Just at this time, I read something thathelped me begin to quote, let go and let God, it said, and in the book, it's Dear Blank, so of course I wrote, dear Eric, Thanks, but I don't need your help today.
Love God.
During the next few weeks, when I feltI needed to give God a hand, I would take out this sheet of paper, read it.

(24:48):
You know something.
He's really done great without my help.
Good stuff.

Spencer (24:54):
Yeah.

Eric B (24:56):
That good stuff.

Spencer (24:57):
If you've listened to the podcast for a while or if you're one of these people who decides to go binge from the beginning, you will hear, almost every episode, us sharing about how we practice these principles in all our affairs.
Sometimes it's a big thing.

(25:18):
kid landing in the hospital.
Sometimes it's a little thing.
not getting into road rage.

Eric B (25:25):
My daughters are, always saying, dad, come on.
This guy's not got going toofast, and beep your horn.
Go around him.
no, I'm an anti beeper.
Unless someone's in danger,I'll give him a little tap.
But really, honestly, how important isit we get 10 feet further down the road?

Spencer (25:49):
These days I try to have compassion for the person who
feels that they have to zoom in andout and weave back and forth and they're, they're obviously so late for something or they think are,

Eric B (26:03):
Or going too slow.

Spencer (26:05):
I wish for them that they have a little more peace and serenity in their lives so that they don't have to feel that they have to rush all the time.
Yeah.
Or somebody going slow.
Okay.
You know, maybe I need to slow down.

Eric B (26:20):
Maybe there's a lesson here.
What if that person who's doing 55 andeverybody else is doing 68 to 70 and you're pissed off, you can't go around 'em, a double yellow line, whatever it is.
What if when you finally pass andyou go and you're ready to flip the bird, it's this old guy who's having trouble, navigating over the top of

(26:42):
his wheel and he is got a handicapsticker on and hanging from the mirror, or it's your grandmother.
You know what I
Who's the schmuck here?
Okay.
Who's the crazy

Spencer (26:51):
Yes.

Eric B (26:52):
Anyway, moving on.

Spencer (26:54):
Okay.
Last paragraph here.
Al-Anon offers us so much morethan a handful of problem solving techniques for dealing with alcoholic relationships in time.
We also discover principles thatcan guide us through uncertainty and open doors to opportunities we never dreamed of in all our affairs.
There we go again.
Our futures are unwritten books.

(27:14):
With the help of the 12 Steps andof the other Al-Anon principles, we will fill those pages with a life that is rich in love, constructive action, and spiritual wellbeing.
Woo.
Wow.
I wouldn't be doing this podcastobviously, if I hadn't been really working the Al-Anon program and wanting to somehow carry that message forward.

(27:39):
So two parts of the step there.

Eric B (27:42):
Yeah.

Spencer (27:42):
This podcast has given me so much.
And I know people write in and saythe podcast has given them so much.
I know at least a couplepeople said it saved my life.
For which I am over awed and hopethey really didn't mean it literally.
But if they did, wow.

(28:04):
I am just full of gratitude thatI was able to bring something.
I've met people, I've had opportunityto have conversations with, let me, how many people are in my spreadsheet here?
over the years of doing the podcast,I've been able to have conversations with probably well over a hundred people.

(28:27):
400 episodes, but over hundred people

Eric B (28:31):
Yeah.
you were just at thatconvention for God's sake.

Spencer (28:34):
yeah,

Eric B (28:35):
hundred there alone.

Spencer (28:36):
yeah, I met a few people there.
One person, we met and turned out we hadsome other life experiences in common and we sat down and had our dinner on the plaza, from a food truck and talked
about those mutual experiences for,I might have been 20 minutes, might have been half an hour, but it's just making be able to make connections.

(29:00):
I never thought thatwould be part of my life.

Eric B (29:03):
Yeah.

Spencer (29:05):
And I have had opportunities to share my story at conferences, AA and Al-Anon conferences, and I'll be doing another one in September in Kentucky.
That's not something that Iever thought I would be doing.
And so much uncertainty in life.
I mean, life is full of uncertainty,especially I think about launching children into adulthood, or children launching themselves into adulthood and not knowing how life is gonna be

(29:33):
for them and being able to navigatethat and to walk beside them when they stumble, and not have the urge to pick up and fix, which is a big thing too.
How about you?
How's this showing up your life?

Eric B (29:48):
I think I'm a better father.
Like a much better father.
Not even a little better.
I'm, I always thought I was agreat father until I was told that I wasn't by my alcoholic.
'cause she knew that would be the mosthurtful thing she could say to me.
but I would almost say by practicing theseprinciples in all my affairs, I represent a very good example for my daughters.

(30:17):
And they appreciate it.
They really notice it.
There's so much love going on betweenmy daughters and me right now.
it's like, there was some toughyears as we, you and I lived them often through these episodes, there were some really difficult years.
And, right now, they're miraculous.

(30:40):
The relationships that I have withmy daughters are the closest in my life, they both live with me.
I would say we are all havingpretty much our best lives.
And I'd put it in no small part thatthe family situation is bound to improve as we apply the Al-Anon ideas.
I guess that's it.
You know, it's just as likelysomething great can happen tomorrow as something bad.

(31:05):
I can only prepare to be asgood a person as I can today.
And what usually happens is theoutcome by doing that is good.
I'm a strong believer inthe law of attraction.
I'm a very strongbeliever in affirmations.
I write them and I saythem out loud every day.

(31:26):
I realized I've been doing itsince I was about 20 years old.
My basic affirmation is I'm bettertoday than I was yesterday, and I'll be better tomorrow than I am today.
That's enough.
That's enough.
There's others that are more, financialand goal, and I've had a vision of building a house on a lake some point in the future for 30 years.

(31:49):
Since I lost my house on thelake during the divorce in 2014, I've envisioned it again.
Guess where I'm going tomorrow, Spencer?

Spencer (31:58):
to see some property on a lake.

Eric B (32:00):
Exactly.
I'm going to make an offer on apiece of property and I'm drawing up the plans for the house that I'm gonna build on it this morning.

Spencer (32:09):
Wow.
And yeah, dreams coming true.
Oh my God.
Okay, first paragraphtalked about loss of dreams,
and
here you are
recovering a dream.

Eric B (32:24):
yeah.
Just a different dream, I alwaysdreamed that house I designed and built for my family, I would be buried in the backyard, next to my dogs and, overlooking the water.
And that wasn't meant to be, but thatdoesn't mean there's a different dream.
And, I'm staring at the house Iwas drawing with my architect, for the last week, sketching it out.

Spencer (32:46):
Nice.

Eric B (32:47):
It was completely circumstantial.
Call it, coincidental.
it's almost like I manifested it

Spencer (32:54):
yeah,
I reached out for shares, to the mailinglist, and I got a couple of responses.
One of 'em was David askingwhat are these principles?
So I think we've answered his email,and we got one from Kate who writes,
Hello Spencer and Eric.
Thank you for the opportunity toshare my experience, strength, and hope regarding step 12.
I have learned from my sponsor thateach time I practice the Al-Anon principles outside of a meeting or apply them to something in my life that does not seem alcohol related, I am having a spiritual awakening.

(33:26):
I'm gonna pause here because.
I never thought about it that way.
Like, a little spiritual awakening thatcomes from recognizing that I can apply my recovery principles to things that are not about recovery from the effects of somebody else's drinking on me.

(33:48):
Wow.
Head blown.

Eric B (33:50):
Yeah.

Spencer (33:52):
okay.
I'm gonna continue with Kate's email.
One example of this for me is theway I try to think about money and the way I choose to spend and save.
According to the seventh tradition,I should be fully self-supporting declining outside contributions.
To me, this means being in a financialposition where I feel like I could support myself and my children, should the alcoholic start drinking again, spending money in unhealthy ways, and so on.

(34:18):
But the first general warranty ofour conference also tells me to keep a prudent financial reserve.
To me, this warranty, coupled withthe tradition, talks about balance.
As a recovering adult who isresponsible for the care of myself and my children, it is my responsibility to be fully self-supporting, and it is my responsibility to not just hoard money as a security blanket.

(34:44):
Before Al-Anon, my behavior aroundmoney was very black and white.
Either I spent money with abandon andtried to never look back at my bank or credit card balance, or I would spend as little money as possible and try to hide whatever money I did have from my alcoholic spouse.
The traditions and concepts teach me howto be a responsible person with money and remind me that balance is the key.

(35:08):
This, to me is a spiritual awakening.
Signed Kate.
And thank you Kate, not only forthat mind blown thing, but a reminder that in fact, the traditions and the concepts of service are also spiritual principles of our program of recovery.

(35:28):
and that I also try to practiceas many of those as apply to any particular situation in my life.

Eric B (35:36):
Great share.
Thank you, Kate.

Spencer (35:38):
We're gonna take a little break here, talk about some music, and then we'll come back with our lives in recovery , where we can talk about, how recovery's working in our lives today and how we're practicing these principles.
Right?
You picked the first song, what is it?

Eric B (35:54):
Into the Mystic by Van Morrison.
Have personal story here.
this is the song I chose, toreference at my brother's memorial service, who sadly, succumbed to the disease about two months ago.
He was a sailor, grew up and wentto the Merchant Marine and spent most of his life on the water.

(36:14):
He restored one of the tall ships inPhiladelphia, called the Moshulu, one of the oldest square riggers in the world.
He personally restored and re riggedit, and the song is about a spiritual journey and a celebration of life with undertones mortality and homecoming.

(36:35):
When you listen to it in the context ofstep 12, boy, it's ringing all the bells.

Spencer (36:49):
In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery.
How have we experienced recovery recently?
I've been sharing some experiencesfrom attending the AA convention and the, cruise that we took after that.
Which we were part of a groupthat a travel agent put together.

(37:10):
She calls it Gratitude Cruises.
There were 450 something peoplein that group out of a little over 2000 on the whole ship.
And there were other people on theship who were not part of the group who had been to the AA convention because the convention was in Vancouver.
And then we sailed out of Vancouver onthe same day as the end of the convention.

(37:31):
So, it was sort of anobvious thing to do.
I guess.
Our whole trip, we had trials andtribulations about transportation.
almost all of ourtransportation ran late.
Our flight to Seattle, ourbus from Seattle to visit our friend in northern Washington.
Our bus from there to Vancouver, and ourflight home from Vancouver, all were late.

(37:53):
Didn't really inconvenience us in amajor way, but it's annoying, right?
And we just were like,this is what's happening.
Recovery principle thereof, I can't change it.
I can't do anything about the factthat there's traffic on the I five and the bus is an hour late to pick us up.
I just can't.
And it doesn't help me to stress about it.
These are all thingsI learned in recovery.

(38:15):
Our ship sailed out of Vancouver Harbor,turned around and sailed back in.
The captain came on and said, we havea technical issue with one of the engines, and we're having to come back so that we can work on this and make sure it's a good working order before we sail off on our cruise.

Eric B (38:34):
Yeah.
I vote yes for that.

Spencer (38:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's two engines and oneof 'em is having problems.
Yes.
So, we spent a day sitting on theship docked in Vancouver because, as we got on the ship, we went through American Customs to get on the ship.
Because the next stopwas gonna be in the US.
So we can't get off without going throughCanadian customs, and they're not willing to set that up for us or whatever.

(38:57):
You know, so, okay, thisis what's happening.
I'll take an opportunity to takea nap and maybe sit in the sun, sit out on our balcony and enjoy the weather, which was beautiful.
Something happened thatstill kind of boggles me.
It's not related to things being late.
we were in Ketchikan in Alaska.

(39:18):
We stopped into a restaurant to get aking crab leg because that's a thing you do when you're in Alaska, right?
And it was not cheap, I'lljust say it was not cheap.
And the first place we had gonethat had that opportunity, I'm like, oh my God, I'm not spending that much on a king crab leg, But.
We decided this is a once in a lifetime.

(39:39):
We're probably never gonna be back here.
We should do this thing.
So we walked in, weordered a leg and a claw.
It wasn't a full meal.
It was a nice mid-afternoon snack.
And when the bill came, the proprietorsaid somebody else has paid for your meal.
What?

Eric B (39:58):
Wow.

Spencer (39:58):
There are wonderful people in this world.
One thing that occurred to me, and Idon't know how this could have been true, but it could have been true, is maybe this is somebody who listens to the podcast and recognized me somehow.
And they were giving
back to me anonymously.

Eric B (40:15):
I bet that's what it was.

Spencer (40:16):
It might be.
And if it was you and you'relistening, thank you for that because that just put such a light into our day, which was a dreary, rainy day.
It really was gray and rainy,which I guess happens a lot in that part of the world.
But, it brought a lotof light into the day.
So thank you for that.

(40:36):
And if you're notlistening, thank you anyway.
I don't know if that's as a resultof carrying this message or not, but I can take it that way, you know?
And also, this idea that it's okay toaccept a gift, and just say thank you.
And not have to reciprocatebecause I couldn't, because I didn't know who it was.

Eric B (40:59):
Yeah.

Spencer (41:00):
I always had trouble accepting compliments.
I seem to recall somebody in meetingstalking about this and saying, you know, we say like, oh, it's nothing.
oh.
This old thing, And I've learnedthat all I have to say is thank you.
I don't have to say anything else.
I don't have to be embarrassed thatI'm being complimented or being gifted.

(41:22):
and that makes life easier, you know?
So there's a couple things where, on thattrip, my recovery program just made things a little easier and a little better.

Eric B (41:33):
And you found a fellow member because they did, just for today, a good turn and not got found out

Spencer (41:41):
Oh, that is on the just for today bookmark, isn't it?
So what's going on in your life?

Eric B (41:46):
I mentioned before the show.
I, yet another torn rotator cuff.
So that's been limiting my freedom todo more stuff I like to do, play golf and tennis and go for hikes and bikes.
It's just become a level seven pain.
And I, finally turned of age lastMonday and I'm able to get it done, through Medicare and have that scheduled for next week to get this really painful left shoulder fixed so I can go out and play better golf,

Spencer (42:15):
and the recovery principle here is, when you need to do something, do it.

Eric B (42:19):
And yeah.
And take good care of ourselves.
Self care.
I've been going to bedearly, I've been icing it.
I've been seeing my doctor and hesaid, as soon as you're able to, we'll come in and get it properly.
MRI then.
Yes.
He confirmed two days agowas a big, massive, tear.
let's put you on the calendar for ASAP.
How's that sound?
I said ASAP sounds too late.

(42:40):
How about tomorrow?
I even ordered myself a reclining heatedchair to go in my living room 'cause I have a feeling I'm gonna be slung up.
And as it turns out, I'm justfinished a large construction project virtually today.
I was up there this morning withmy electrician getting all the lights finally dimmed and as of Monday we'll have a sign off.

(43:02):
So the timing, itcouldn't have been better.
So it's just all working out.

Spencer (43:08):
Looking forward in the podcast, I'm going to be having a conversation with a listener about dating before and in recovery.
I've had at least two and maybemore than that, emails from people who are like, what about dating?
Like, how do we do dating in recovery?
And, this person stepped up and said,I would be willing, I would be happy to talk about, dating now and dating before I found recovery and how they're different.

(43:38):
So we're gonna do that.
if you have experiences about that,that you'd like to share, I will be sending out an email, to the, to the mailing list about this also.
But you don't have to wait forthat, or if you're not on the email list, you can still share your experience, strength, and hope.
or if you have thoughts on step 12,obviously, you can also send those in.

(44:01):
Eric, how can people do that?

Eric B (44:04):
I'm glad you asked Spencer.
You can send us a voicemail or email tofeedback at the recovery dot show, or if you prefer, you can call and leave us a voicemail at 7 3 4 7 0 7 87 9 5.
You can also use the voicemailbutton on the website to join the conversation from your computer.
We'd love to hear from you.
Share your experience, strength, and hope,or your questions about today's topic of step 12 or any of our upcoming topics, including dating, before and in recovery.

(44:34):
If you have a topic you'd likeus to talk about, let us know.
If you'd like advance notice for someof the topics so that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback at the recovery dot show.
Put email the subject lineto make it easier to spot.

Spencer (44:53):
Our website, if you haven't already guessed, is the recovery show.
Along with some aliases tohopefully make it easier to find.
Where we have information about the show.
Mostly these days, it'sthe notes for each episode.
Those notes will include linksto the books that we read from, the poem that Eric read.

(45:14):
There will be videos for the musicand also you can find some links to other recovery podcasts and websites.
and I wanna note that the shownotes now include transcripts.
They're in a little collapsiblebox on the page so that you don't have to scroll through an hour's worth of transcript if you just wanna get down to the music videos.

(45:37):
But they are there.
Now we will take a little breakbefore we look at the mailbag and our second musical selection, which again, is available on the website at the recovery dot show slash 4 3 9, is Unwritten by Natasha Bedingfield.
I've used this song before, but it's greathere because in the reading for this step, it says, our futures are unwritten books.

(46:01):
And this is a song about creating yourown life on your own terms, which really is something we can do when we practice all these principles in our affairs.
A few lyrics here.
Feel the rain on your skin.
No one else can feel it for you.
Only you can let it in.
No one else.
No one else can speakthe words on your lips.

(46:22):
Drench yourself in words unspoken.
Live your life with arms wide open.
Today is where your book begins.
The rest is still unwritten.
Is that a perfect match or what?

(46:42):
We will start our listener feedbacksection with a voicemail from Pat.

Pat (46:48):
Hey Spencer, this is Pat from the West Coast.
I see that you and Eric have alreadyrecorded on step 12, but I thought I'd share a little bit of my thoughts on it.
I took the third question youoffered about practicing Al-Anon principles in all our affairs.
and in my life, it's probably themost beneficial long-term aspect of having worked all the other steps.

(47:10):
Find that when I'm faced with anemotional challenge, I'm able to look at the situation in the moment and ask myself questions I never would've considered before Al-Anon.
Am I the one being irritable?
Am I making this all about me?
Is it really all about me?
What don't I know about theinternal environment and motivations of the other person?

(47:33):
If I know them well, can I have compassionfor the challenges they face that seem to make them respond in a particular way?
What choices do I have and if I detach,how can I do it in a loving way?
So looking at conflict or strongemotions through an Al-Anon lens allows me to put situations in perspective, maintaining peace, my sanity, and

(47:57):
often allowing myself to open thedoor internally to hearing what the other person is saying or suggesting.
I'm shocked at how oftenlately I find myself saying Thanks, that was a good idea.
Or that was better, when previouslyI may well have been too reactive, assuming criticism or, or too focused on the negative to hear what the other person is saying when it was really very beneficial and contributory.

(48:27):
Another time I really frequently useAl-Anon is when someone has brought a personal problem to me, either just to vent or to get some help problem solving.
And then when that happens, I treatthem as if they were an Al-Anon member.
And I'm able to use the principles toput things in perspective and to offer options based on the Al-Anon traditions.

(48:48):
I'm always careful to couch it, though,in terms of choices the person has and avoid you should statements or, or, you know, telling 'em what to do.
so I, I really do find that, regardlessof the situation in my life, the Al-Anon principles are almost always extremely helpful managing difficult times, and very beneficial to both myself and to those around me.

(49:17):
So thanks for letting me share.
And thank you to you andEric for your service.
Okay, bye-bye.

Spencer (49:24):
Pat.
Thank you for sharing some of yourexperience, strength, and hope as to how you practice step 12 in your life.
Kristi wrote, hi there.
I'm a regular listener andreally appreciate the depth and compassion you bring to the show.
I was wondering if you haveever done an episode on PAL PAL, parents of Addicted Loved Ones.

(49:46):
I recently joined PAL in additionto Al-Anon as I have two young adult children in recovery.
I know you've done episodesrelated to other groups like a CA, and I'd love to hear your.
Perspective on pal if it'ssomething you've explored or we consider for a future episode.
Thank you, Kristi.
PAL is not something I think Ieven knew about, so thank you for raising that awareness.

(50:09):
And since neither of my childrenhave as of yet, shown signs of addiction, it's not something that I would have experienced.
I would love to do an episode on it.
If you are a member of PAL Parents ofAddicted Loved Ones and would like to share your experience, strength, and hope with it on the podcast, send me an email and we'll set up a time to record.

(50:38):
Thanks.
Louise left a comment onepisode 4 28 Separating from Dysfunction with Heather C.
Thank you, Heather andSpencer for this episode.
It was just what I neededon my dog walk this morning.
I am not an adult child, but I am inthe process of divorcing from an adult child and a dysfunctional marriage in which I fully played my part.

(51:00):
I cried healing tears, listening toHeather's story and resonated with so much of it, particularly around shame about my own behavior, but also gaining compassion for others who did not start this cycle either.
Yesterday I felt angry, but today Iknow that I want to accept what I cannot control and conduct myself with grace.
Thank you both.

(51:21):
Thank you Louise for that.
Mel left us a voicemail

Melanie (51:29):
hi Spencer.
Hi, friends of the Recovery Show.
This is Mel sending in amessage from Alberta, Canada.
I just listened to episode 2 72 andheard exactly what I needed to hear.
Someone sharing about howtheir perfectionism has stopped them from reaching out.
And yeah, just contributing to the show.
And so I'm finally getting in touch.

(51:51):
I am a gratefully recovering workaholicand activity addict work avoidant.
That has brought me into 12 steps.
I do also qualify for Al-Anonand have been really curious about ACA's re-parenting work.
just one of those, you know, when the.

(52:13):
When the medicine works, youprobably have the disease
. I have been working my program in WA over the last almost two years.
I a step study group that is about 19months old now and we're on step 12.
I'm just thinking, in working myway through the Recovery Podcast episodes backwards mostly.

(52:37):
I have not come across any crossoverwith Workaholics Anonymous, and I would be quite curious to explore what it could look like to do a show together.
So if that's something that interests youand piques your curiosity, let me know.
I would be honored to connect.
And yeah, just wanna say thank you somuch for all of the episodes of the recovery show that you and your friends and guest hosts have put out there.

(53:08):
They are beautifully done.
It is incredibly soothing.
I was looking for a little extra recoveryin between meetings to be able to just take in and, not feel guilty about like flitting in and out of meetings, but, you know, actually being fully present when I do go to my online meetings.
There's no WA programin person where I live.

(53:29):
It's just, so soothing, so helpful, sogrounding to have access to your episodes.
They're consistent, they'regentle, they're loving.
It's just such an incrediblegift that you have given and continue to give to this world.

(53:49):
And I guess just reflecting onepisode 2 72 too, we're in the heights of summer, days are, not very noticeably slowly getting shorter, so there's lots of light right now.
But, I very much feel whatsome folks write about.
About how we are in a time of darkness,in terms of human development and transformation in our societies.

(54:17):
And, yeah, comfort in that darknesscomes through my 12 step program and developing and a relationship with higher power that I previously did not have.
So thank you so much forbeing part of my journey and.
I look forward to making my way throughanother 200 episodes that I have not listened to yet, so keep 'em coming.

(54:43):
In the meantime, thank you so much.

Spencer (54:46):
thank you, Mel.
Episode 2 72 was titledPeace in the Darkness.
It was a solo episode where I wrote,this is my musings on darkness.
Stacy writes,
Dear Spencer, I just listenedto episode 4 36, embracing Our Humanity, practicing Step 10.

(55:07):
In the email comments portionof the show, someone asked about a topic show on dating.
I've been in Al-Anon recovery forover nine years and dating for nearly as long since my divorce.
I've worked the 12 steps frequentlyaround romantic relationships.
I have a home group, asponsor, and I am a sponsor.
One boyfriend asked me a few yearsago why I went to all those Al-Anon meetings since I was no longer married to the alcoholic husband.

(55:31):
I asked him, do you like me?
He said, yes, of course I do.
What do you mean?
I replied, do you likehow I am, how I act?
He replied, yes, I do.
I said, well, this pointing atmyself is a lot of Al-Anon meetings.
He never asked me that questionagain, and occasionally would ask, how was your meeting?
All that to say, I would behappy to share how I've matured.

(55:53):
And found serenity in dating whileactively working my Al-Anon recovery.
I'm not in a long-term relationshipyet as I think I would like, but I am hopeful that I'll be ready when the moment arrives.
I take my higher power with me andwalk the way with integrity and love.
I've been listening to your show for atleast eight years after hearing about it in the parking lot after a meeting.
Thank you.

(56:14):
Thank you for your curiosity andyour generosity of spirit in making this wonderful recovery show.
Sincerely, Stacey W
Thank you Stacey.
we've got, as you'll hear, more thanone person who has some experience with dating before or in recovery and would like to talk about it.
I'm thinking about how I might beable to put together an episode with multiple perspectives, multiple sets of experience, or maybe more than one show.

(56:42):
I'm not sure.
I already have somebody scheduled totalk about dating, but there's so much experience out there that I'm sure we can explore it from multiple points of view.
Brian writes, first off.
Thank you so much for all you do.
I found your show about two yearsago, and it is on my regular podcast to listen to while driving list.

(57:04):
I can't tell you how many times thetopics of discussion related to what I was going through at the time.
At the end of episode 4 36, anotherlistener had asked if there were any episodes on dating and recovery.
If you're looking for someone to dothe show with, I'd love to co-host.
I've had an interesting romanticlife, interesting is in quotes.
Romantic relationships with severalalcoholics, workaholics, and basically women that are physically and or emotionally not available.

(57:29):
Poor conception of what a healthyrelationship is, and using women to give me a dopamine hit, IE flirt with women in order to feel validated, basically using them like a drug.
I discovered codependencyabout 10 years ago.
Then CODA Coda meetingsabout four or five years ago.
Coda led me to Al-Anon when I wasin a relationship with an alcoholic that was actively relapsing.

(57:52):
My first true Al-Anonmeeting was January, 2023.
Al-Anon led me to ACA, which hashelped me figure out why I am attracted to unhealthy women.
Coda also led me to love addiction, whichhas helped me see my character defects.
All four of these programshave been lifesavers.
Full disclosure, I'm definitelynot perfect, and I'm not actively dating right now.

(58:12):
I'm finally letting God decide whenI'm ready, but I'd love to be able to share my experience, strength, and hope.
Thanks again for all you do.
Brian.
F
So there's another one about dating,again, with a different set of experiences, a different slant if you will, different perspective.
I'm leaning towards doing severalepisodes, I would wanna spread them out a little and not have them all back to back.

(58:35):
I think.
Lemme know what you think.
Pete writes.
Hello Spencer.
I was just listening to Dolly Partonas one does, and this song popped up and it's definitely about addiction.
The song is Broken Angels.
I will put that song in the shownotes at the recovery show slash 4 39.

(58:57):
Kylie wrote, hi Spencer.
I've just finished listening toyour most recent episode on step 11.
It was a real knockout.
I found the rapport between you andyour co-host on this episode brought a very real sense of connection for me to step 11, what it means and how to translate it into practice.
By listening to you, I was struckby how our program works through listening, digesting, experimenting, reviewing, and having another go at life.

(59:22):
In many ways, this is theprocess of learning, and yet the program is in no way didactic.
I felt deeply grateful for the love andcare you bring to making the recovery show and for the connection you make with me as a listener, as a fellow traveler on this journey of recovery.
Thank you for your time and effortand the community you have built.
A very happy birthday toyou, Spencer, from down under Kylie in Sydney, Australia.

(59:46):
Thanks for writing, Kylie.
I re-listened to the Step 11 episoderecently, and I agree, there was some real connection between me and Sarah there.
And, and Sarah brought justsome really deep experience.
Maureen also refers to my birthday.
She writes, hello Spencer.

(01:00:07):
I'm not sure the exact day of your specialmilestone birthday, but I want to wish you a very, very happy 70th birthday.
I hope your party is a huge success.
How wonderful to celebrate youand your very amazing life.
You're making the worldsuch a better place.
Your podcast helps so many people.
It sure helps me.
What a ripple effect you create bysharing your experience, strength, and hope, along with the voices of so many of our fellow travelers.

(01:00:29):
Here's to you.
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you.
Happy birthday.
And here's to many more.
Sincerely, Maureen w SanDiego, originally from Detroit.
Thanks for writing, Maureen.
I appreciate the the best wishes there.
Now we have several more responsesto the episode, is Al-Anon for Men, which was episode number 4 37.

(01:00:53):
PL writes,
Having gender specific spaces forrecovery can be very important, but this conversation is very disturbing and rifled with sexism.
If you wonder why men don't seek therecovery of Al-Anon looking inward at your own opinions and attitudes about others, especially women, may be enlightening about how other men may also view recovery and relationship and codependency.

(01:01:14):
Women and girls and other types ofmen have existed with male dominated bias since the dawn of written language and have had to adjust and adapt learning to their own sometimes very different opinions and view.
Yet we still learn from literature.
Moby Dick, all of Dickens and Religion,the Bible from professional training led by and created for men and male centric business and science.

(01:01:36):
We learn from centuries of male ledand dominated leadership and education.
The men who adapt to Al-Anon, as you seeit may gain more because they have opened their own perspective and listening.
Deeper issues surrounding men outsidethe program rooted in a sexist view of themselves and others may exist that do not support their Al-Anon journey.
Thank you for reading andbringing recovery to the podcast.

(01:01:59):
Thank you PL for sharing your thoughts.
We've got a few more here thatagain, I'm just gonna say thank you.
Catherine writes, thank youfor an interesting topic.
I, 53-year-old female have beenpondering this for a while.
I think both of you seem uniquein your willingness to stay with your alcoholic wives.
Just interjecting here.

(01:02:19):
I'm not sure whether Patrick did or not.
Don't have that part of his story.
Back to Catherine.
In my Al-Anon group, there werefour men, so a little under 50%.
One father, two ex-husbands, andone who doesn't quote need Al-Anon anymore because he's getting divorced.
In my life outside Al-Anon here in theUK, I don't know any husband who stayed with and supported their alcoholic wife.

(01:02:41):
Her behavior was seen asunreasonable enough to divorce.
Then he no longer has a problem.
Whereas in contrast, all of thewomen, mostly over 60, except my daughter and me stuck around for their husbands to sober up.
I don't know whether thatmakes me loyal or stupid.
I'm still waiting for my husbandto become a sober alcoholic, though he's made huge steps, hopefully as a result of me stopping nagging, shaming and enabling him.

(01:03:07):
One thing is for sure Al-Anon haschanged my life, and I appreciate all in my group, men and women.
Thank you, Catherine
Ray writes.
Hi Spencer.
I've been listening to you for years.
Thank you for all of the work you do.
Whenever I'm struggling witha specific topic, I know I can find it on the Recovery show.
A response to your is Al-Anon for men.

(01:03:29):
Is having peace of mindand being calmer for men?
Is being compassionate and empathetic andjust an all around nicer person for men?
Is being a better listener,partner, and father for men?
Is showing up service and beingthe voice of some experience, strength, and hope for men?
Is learning how to speak and be tolerantof the alcoholics of my life for men?

(01:03:51):
Is learning how to set boundariesand detaching with love for men?
I could go on, I think I made my point.
I just hit my seventh year in, andmy life has completely changed.
I am all of those things and more.
Yes, maybe not perfect, but at least I'maware of what Al-Anon has done for me.
I've been the only guy at meetings.
I just try to focus on whatAl-Anon has done for me.

(01:04:12):
I have led meetings being theonly guy, and after the meeting, women thank me for leading.
Anyway, I'm thankful for the programand thankful for your podcast.
I'd love to give you a song thathit me hard when my son was in a long-term sober living program.
It's by Shine Down, the title ofthe song is Monsters and a Chorus.
'cause my monsters are realand they're trained how to kill and there's no coming back.

(01:04:34):
And they just laugh at how I feel.
And these monsters can flyand they'll never say die.
And there's no going back.
If I get trapped, I'll never heal.
Yeah.
My monsters are real.
Again, I'll put a link to that song in theshow [e-mail] slash 4 3 9.
We also hear from Mary about this episode.

(01:04:55):
Hi Spencer.
Many thanks for your service.
I think the number of women in ACAand Al-Anon exceeds the number of men in the programs is a numbers game.
I do use the word game lightly.
The sheer prevalence of violence ofall sorts against women and double the prevalence of PTSD in women.
It makes me think that women hitbottom more frequently and the more women that hit bottom, the more that they reach out for help.

(01:05:19):
I think it is just numbers.
It does not take a lot of searchingto find credible evidence to support what I write here.
Not only that, most of us haveseen this in our own lives.
Misogyny is all around us.
I would love to do ashow with you sometime.
I use four different programsto strengthen my recovery, ABA, UA, ACA, and COSA.
And I know what one of those is.

(01:05:40):
So, obviously I will have to talkto Mary about what these others are.
You know what they say?
Once you graduate from one program, adoor opens and you fall into the next one.
Ha ha ha.
That's me, Mary G.
Thank you Mary also for writing aboutyour experience and strength and hope.

(01:06:01):
That is it with listenerfeedback for this show.
Thank you Eric.
Thank you for, joining me today.
For signing up to talk aboutstep 12 and bringing all that you always bring, to this episode.
Thank you.

Eric B (01:06:17):
You're welcome.

Spencer (01:06:19):
And you've got one more song.

Eric B (01:06:22):
I do.
And again, a personal story with this one.
this was the second song thatI used at my brother's, eulogy.
It's Southern Cross byCrosby, Stills and Nash.
It's quite beautiful and meaningful,particularly as someone who's spent a lot of time on the water.
It really talks about, healing fromdifficulties and embarking on a journey.

(01:06:48):
Call it literal, call itfigurative, but it's a celebration of, a vision of a constellation, which sailors use to navigate.
In our program, for me,that's my higher power.
That's who I use formy greatest navigation.
The last explanation from ai.

(01:07:08):
The Southern Cross itself is aconstellation visible only in the southern hemisphere, which sailors use for navigation and which the song uses as a symbol of guidance and hope in times of emotional darkness.
you can't put it any better than that.
I'll just tell you one last thing.
This morning before I was, pickingup and getting ready, I found a fortune cookie on the floor.

(01:07:34):
You know the saying insideof a fortune cookie.
I have no idea how long it'sbeen on my floor, but talk about a little God w Here it is.
Your greatest wealth isthe love you give freely.
I found that this morning,sitting on the floor.

Spencer (01:07:48):
There you go.
Little God Wink.

Eric B (01:07:51):
the last thing I am gonna share, my eulogy, I gave in front of several hundred people that showed up for my brother's Memorial.
Um, was a lot about, hewas larger than life.
I was looking for guidance from someof the Greek gods like Poseidon and Zeus and Hercules for my brother, which he was all those things to a lot of people from his 68 years.

(01:08:17):
a lot of them involved with sailing.
But he also had a littleJack Sparrow in him.
Uh, maybe a little more than a little.
I'll just read the last piece of itthat says, he used to call me Hüntie, which in German we become German descent, Hüntie means little pup.

(01:08:37):
So he'd refer to me as Hüntieand I'd refer to him as Big Hünt.
And the last thing I said, with bothof my daughters up on stage around holding me, was I'll always feel his strength when I need to stand tall.
I'll always see his smirk when Istart to take life too seriously.
So farewell my brother.

(01:08:59):
May all the gods welcome you.
May the sea carry you gently.
And may you keep a place for me whereverlegends go, when their story here is done.
Fair winds and following seas,you'll always be Big Hünt to me.
Keep calm and Al-Anon.
Thanks Spencer.

Spencer (01:09:23):
Thank you for listening.
Please keep coming back.
Whatever your problems, there arethose among us who have had them too.
If we did not talk about a problemyou are facing today, feel free to contact us so that we can talk about it in a future episode.
May understanding, love and peacegrow in you one day at a time.