July 4, 2024 • 65 mins
Spencer and Nora explore Step One of Al-Anon, which is about admitting powerlessness over alcohol and recognizing the unmanageability in one's life. They read from the book ‘How Al-Anon Works' and discuss how their lives have been impacted by others' alcoholism. Both hosts share personal anecdotes on their journey to accepting their lack of control...
The post Step One: Finding Strength in Surrender – 413 appeared first on The Recovery Show.
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Spencer (00:01):
Step one.
We admitted we were powerless over alcoholand that our lives were unmanageable.
What does this mean to you?
How have you experienced this in your life?
Welcome to episode 413 of The Recovery Show.
This episode is brought to you by Janice,Tammy, Shawna, Renee, Mae, Deanna, and Andrea.
(00:22):
They used the donation button on our website.
Thank you, Janice, Tammy, Shawna, Renee, Mae,Deanna, and Andrea for your generous contributions.
This episode is for you.
We are friends and family members of alcoholics andaddicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness.
We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopelessproblem of addiction understand as perhaps few others can.
(00:46):
So much depends on our own attitudes, and webelieve that changed attitudes can aid recovery.
Nora (00:53):
Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show, we represent ourselves rather than any 12 step program.
During this show, we will share our own experiences.
The opinions expressed here are strictlythose of the person who gave them.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
(01:13):
We hope that you will find something inour sharing that speaks to your life.
Spencer (01:19):
My name is Spencer.
I am your host today, and joining me today is Nora.
Welcome to the Recovery Show, Nora.
Nora (01:26):
Thank you, Spencer.
I'm very honored to be here, very happy to be here,
Spencer (01:31):
This is our second episode in the Steps series.
The first one was number 411, where we talked aboutthe Steps in general, an introduction to the Steps, And today we're going to be talking about Step 1, and the structure that I'm using here is to read from our literature, from the book How Al Anon Works.
(01:55):
We're going to be reading from Chapter 8, whichis titled 12 Steps, and we're reading Step 1, which in the paperback edition, is pages 45 to 47.
The first paragraph of the reading starts with the step.
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol,that our lives had become unmanageable.
Each of our lives has been devastatedby someone else's drinking.
(02:17):
We cannot change that fact.
We have been profoundly affectedby the disease of alcoholism.
Its effects continue to permeate our lives.
Nor can we change the behavior orthe attitudes of those around us.
We can't even put a stop to the drinking.
We are powerless over alcohol.
As long as we persist in the delusion that we cancontrol or cure alcoholism, its symptoms, or its effects, we continue to fight a battle that we cannot win.
(02:46):
Our self esteem suffers, our relationshipssuffer, and our ability to enjoy life suffers.
All of our energy is wasted on a hopeless endeavor untilthere is nothing left over for attending to our own needs.
Our lives have become unmanageable.
this paragraph feels to me sometimes harsh, haswords like devastated and profoundly affected and permeate our lives, a battle that we cannot win, but it very accurately also describes where my life was.
(03:24):
When I entered the program.
Devastated is not too hard of a word.
I think for where I was, where I was in thebattle to try to control my wife's drinking and the effects that it was having on our lives.
And what I didn't know was the effects that my reactionsand my attempts to control were also having on our lives.
(03:49):
I did not see that.
and that I think comes along a little bitlater, in these readings actually, but I was fighting a battle that I could not win.
and yeah, my self esteem suffered, my relationshipsuffered, my ability to enjoy life suffered.
Oh my God.
Yes.
I was not enjoying life.
I was breaking off relationships, friends, and familybecause I didn't want people to see what was happening.
(04:16):
and I felt shameful that I couldn't do anythingabout it and that, right there on my self esteem.
My energy was wasted on this hopeless endeavor.
Yeah, so it's harsh, but it also,for me, it was very accurate.
How about you, Nora?
Nora (04:34):
a lot of things you just shared, I could relate to a lot.
And one of the first things I was thinkingof in the reading was the reactivity.
it's like feeling out of control, hopeless, notat the place where I know what the heck is going on because I'm in the middle of the disease.
(04:56):
I have the disease too.
I'm not an alcoholic, but I'maffected, as we are in Al Anon.
That's why we're here.
it's a quagmire and it's a mystery and itis harsh and it's, there's no solution.
It's that thing.
Oh, I'll just try anything to feel likeI'm doing something, but that doesn't work.
(05:20):
a hopeless endeavor.
shame is a major thing that this program hasbeen helping me with a lot, releasing it.
it's just what the heck?
Because in reaction to the situation, Idefinitely acted worse a lot of times than the alcoholic, whatever alcoholic I was with.
(05:48):
That created a lot of shame and, being able to be honestand get to see what the heck really happened and what I was in and what I was up against, what I'm still up against, because I don't think the disease goes away.
It just becomes maybe more manageable every day.
(06:10):
if I practice it, if I do the prayer and meditation, yeah.
My life had become unmanageable.
That's how I got to get my way in here.
Spencer (06:21):
You want to read the second paragraph?
Nora (06:23):
Sure.
Whether or not we live with active drinking,life is unmanageable whenever we lose perspective about what is and is not our responsibility.
We take offense at actions that have nothing to dowith us, or we intervene when it is inappropriate.
(06:43):
And neglect our legitimateobligations to ourselves and others.
Our misplaced concern for others becomes intrusive,meddling, resented, and doomed to failure.
Instead of helping those we care about,we demonstrate a lack of respect for them and create discord in our relationships.
(07:06):
Yeah, I had no idea.
I was so shocked when I first came in and theysaid, you giving advice is actually not helpful.
Like what?
that's my job.
Are you joking me?
That's my vocation.
I'm a, I'm not professional, butyou know, I might as well be.
I didn't go to school for it, but.
(07:27):
because I was telling you what to do.
And that is, as it turns out, disrespectful becauseI'm saying, I am superior and I know what to do.
And I am God, him or herself or itself or themselfor the universe or higher power or whatever.
(07:48):
I was raised with a incredible amount of hubrisand arrogance and pretension and superiority, which comes from inferiority, I'm sure.
but I didn't know how to detach or how to live my own life.
It was all, enmeshment and reactivity.
(08:10):
And if I love you, I'm going to tell youwhat to do and be all up in your grill and your face and telling you this and that.
Because I'm so helpful and loving and caringand terrific and wonderful and saintly.
So you're welcome.
And maybe a check will be in the mail, but probably not.
Cause you know, whatever you can just, I just love you.
(08:32):
but, yeah, it just, it was ego.
So yeah, I, I had trouble.
Spencer (08:38):
when I look at this, That first sentence, what is and is not our responsibility.
I thought everything was my responsibility.
That was my perspective.
everything, My stuff is my responsibility.
My wife's stuff is my responsibility.
My kid's stuff is my responsibility.
My co worker's stuff is my responsibility.
Everything.
(08:59):
had I lost perspective?
I guess so.
and when something is not right, like, you know, activealcoholism, then I'm going to focus my efforts on that.
My responsibility on that,intervene where it is inappropriate.
My memory of that time is even though I was sober,it's still foggy enough that I can't really recognize places where I did that, but I know that I did.
(09:31):
Which, wow, that's kind of scary, isn't it?
intrusive meddling, resented and doomed to failure.
No kidding.
And discord in our relationships.
I've talked before about the angerthat I had and how that came out.
very inappropriately, on peoplethat really did not deserve it.
(09:53):
I mean, nobody deserves me raging at them, I suppose,but people who had committed, let's say, very minor offenses to which I reacted with a flamethrower.
Figuratively speaking.
Nora (10:09):
Yeah.
There was a lot of rage.
I think, generational rage.
Cause I don't just blame my father, my mothera little bit, but mostly my father, I don't blame, just, this is what was learned and taught.
And that was what I observed and what was modeled.
(10:34):
I almost wanted to say no harm, nofoul, but a little bit of hurt and foul,
but no, no blame, no shame.
Just I only have the skills that I have at this moment.
I only have the experiences that I have at this moment.
I've only learned what I've learned.
I've only had the teachers that I'vehad and the role models that I've had.
(10:57):
And I'm so happy that I found thisprogram and, other spiritual practices.
that I get nourished by and learn and grow from.
Spencer (11:10):
The next paragraph here just, really continues to focus on this unmanageability aspect.
When our preoccupation with others distracts usfrom our responsibilities to attend to our own physical, emotional, and spiritual health, we suffer.
Our health and self esteem decline.
We become incapable of accepting reality,coping with change, or finding happiness.
(11:34):
Our lives fly out of control.
I think what I'm going to say hereis, yeah, my life was out of control.
And actually going back a littlebit to the previous paragraph.
I remember, and I think this was maybe just beforeI came into Al Anon, I don't remember exactly the relative timing, but I had a number of blowups at work and my boss said, I think you should, take some anger management or something, which is an indication of my spiritual health suffering, my emotional health suffering.
(12:08):
I did.
I joined Al Anon.
And that was not why I was joining Al Anon, right?
But it had that effect of actually removing the rage.
I still get angry on occasion.
there are occasions in life where things happen thatI get angry about, but my reaction to those things is completely different from what it used to be.
(12:32):
What are your thoughts on this short paragraph?
Nora (12:36):
Focus comes to mind.
Where is my focus?
Am I, Obsessing about another person,their life, so that I can't manage my own.
My life is a full time job to manage, and if I'm notspending most of my time and energy doing that, it's not going to be at the level that I want it to be if I'm expending all my time and energy on external things other people other obsessions, compulsions.
(13:10):
Yeah, it's about focus.
It's finding that, that balance.
Spencer (13:16):
Yeah, I think about preoccupation with others distract us from our responsibilities to attend to our own health.
I remember towards the end of my parents lives, mybrother was living with them as primary caregiver and his preoccupation, if you will, was with their health, with what was going on in their lives.
(13:37):
And managing a team of caregivers because hecouldn't be awake 24 7 to take care of them.
I think in consequence, because he was distractedfrom his own self, he had a number of medical emergencies , he would end up in the ER.
(13:57):
That, as far as I know, has not happened, once thatresponsibility was gone because our parents, passed on.
when you look at that situation, it's like,well, of course he was focusing on their needs.
they were the obvious elephant in the room.
We admitted it.
And, my sister and I encouraged him to do thingsfor self care, but you can only say so much, right?
(14:24):
so yeah, it's not just in this addiction,alcoholism scenario that this happens.
It does happen in other cases.
When you have a newborn, I know ourfocus was like, take care of the baby.
Actually, we had two, so it was take care of the babies.
(14:44):
I'm sure we, we didn't shower as often and we didn't dowhatever, because there was this monofocus on, on the kids.
What we're saying here is, yeah, but you juststill gotta be able to take care of yourself or else your life becomes unmanageable.
It flies out of control.
Can you read the next paragraph
(15:06):
?Nora: Yeah.
With this first step, we admit, that we didnot cause, cannot control, and cannot cure the alcoholic, the disease of alcoholism, or the fact that we have been affected by this disease.
We are powerless over alcohol and its effects on us.
By ourselves, we can do nothing toovercome the effects of this disease.
(15:32):
In fact, our attempts to exert power overalcohol have made our lives unmanageable.
I think I'm going to just add the next one on,
Nora (15:42):
Okay.
Spencer (15:43):
Taking this first step allows a great weight to fall from our shoulders.
We let go of the losing battle we have been waging.
We recognize that there is no point in continuing the fight.
We surrender completely.
And the reason I wanted to add that onis because in my experience, I did not cause, cannot control, and cannot cure.
The alcoholic led right into this feeling thatthis weight was falling from my shoulders.
(16:10):
literally, I felt lighter.
And in the moment that I heard and understood thosewords coming out of the mouth of, a therapist or whatever he was at the treatment center, I let go.
For a moment at least.
I recognized that what I had been trying todo was not something that was mine to do.
(16:33):
I feel like at least for a moment I surrendered.
I said, I can't do this thing.
Then of course the question is, then what?
how about you?
Nora (16:44):
Yeah.
What's coming to mind is just that mindfulness like, firstyou realize it, you say, Oh, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives have become unmanageable.
But now I'm realizing I need to rememberthat every day and in many moments.
And it's not just alcoholism.
It's about anything that I'm havesome preconceived idea of what I want.
(17:09):
Expectations, guaranteed disappointments, resentments.
When I'm like, I want this, I want that,and not just allowing life to unfold, trying to control what is not controllable.
Of course, there are some elements that arecontrollable, but people are not in that category.
(17:34):
Generally.
I mean, maybe it's kids at a certainage, you could try, but good luck.
Spencer (17:39):
I was in a meeting and the topic was around powerlessness or something and I said something like, I don't know why I think I can get my wife to stop drinking.
I can't even get my baby to stop crying.
You know, like,
Nora (17:56):
right, right.
There's just no,
we don't got the power.
Spencer (18:01):
we don't.
Nora (18:02):
No, that's why in, in a step or two, we get to attach to a power greater than ourselves, which is really essential.
That's why when I was first, trying tofigure out what I was going to talk about.
Which step?
I was thinking maybe 1, 2, 3.
'cause they're all so intertwined really.
(18:25):
in a way.
But the, this first one, just the honesty andlook at my situation and what is going on.
I'm trying to control something I can't control.
And the relief of that, like yousaid, of the surrender, what a relief.
Ugh.
(18:48):
It was never my job to do.
I had misassigned myself to a task that wasn't ever mine.
Now I'm working on the idea again of just acceptanceand allowing, because forcing just didn't work, it was only ever Oh Illusions and delusions of control.
(19:13):
I never had control.
My, my life was unmanageable.
It still is today a lot.
Sometimes, I just can't control myself still.
I have trouble.
I'm working on it.
Unless I really pause and meditate, take a breathand attach to something greater than myself.
(19:38):
You know, I would like to mention that I knowpeople have trouble with the whole God and religious thing, but, I think I've gotten over it now.
I had trouble with that too, the patriarchy,but things come in really ugly wrapping sometimes, and it's really irrelevant.
(20:00):
it's the message, and it's the meaning.
If I can see beyond, particular drippings andpackaging, then, I can learn and benefit and grow.
So I use the word God sometimes or higher power or universe.
(20:22):
But yeah, that surrender, wow.
Just the awareness, the awakening.
And all of this happens at the pace it happens.
It could be really slow.
With my recovery, I found that I feel like enlightened.
And then I revert, go way back.
And then I crawl back and it's two stepsforward, three steps back, a lot of the times.
(20:50):
What I get to do is to practiceacceptance of it is what it is.
All I can do is take certain actionsand the actions are the steps.
Yes.
The actions are prayer and meditation, I believe,and writing, journaling, going to meetings, working with a sponsor, sponsees, and um,
Spencer (21:20):
I do hear that.
Nora (21:23):
Yeah, I'm in the hotel and they're cleaning out there and
Spencer (21:26):
Oh, is that what's going on?
Okay.
All right.
, I'm going to read the next paragraph then.
This is no small achievement.
The battle against alcoholism has becomethe basis for many of our relationships.
Putting an end to this battle requirescompletely redefining what we believe about ourselves, others, and our relationships.
(21:47):
For example, many of us haveconfused love with interference.
We don't know how to show affection or supportwithout giving advice, seeking to sway another's decisions, or trying to get those we love to do what we think will bring them happiness.
We confuse caring with controlling because we don't knowhow to allow others the dignity of being themselves.
Those of us who learned to control whatever we couldin order to survive in an alcoholic environment, now continue to try to control everything and everybody without realizing what we are doing.
(22:18):
From past experience, we are terrified to let others doas they wish, but we only harm ourselves and others when we insist upon approaching every interaction in this way.
Our relationships are damaged and ourlives become even more unmanageable.
Thus, even when there are no alcoholics directlyinvolved, the effects of alcoholism continue to dominate.
(22:39):
So we take the first step, we admit we are powerless overalcohol, and that our lives have become unmanageable.
There's a lot in there.
I'm really happy they put in some examples becausewhen they talk about completely redefining what we believe about ourselves, others, and our relationships, I'm like, no, that, that's like too much.
I can't do that.
(23:00):
What are you talking about completely redefining?
but then they give me an example.
We've confused love with interference.
Yeah, I love you.
You're doing something that is hurtingyou and me, and I'm gonna make you change.
Boom.
Easy, right?
we confuse caring with controlling.
Same thing.
(23:21):
I did not grow up in an alcoholic environment.
But I certainly try to control everything.
something was going on there.
There is alcoholism in, at least one side of myfamily, even if it was not in my immediate family.
and I think the effects of that came downthrough one or more generations to me.
(23:43):
So in that sense, this sentence, really applies.
Even when there are no alcoholics directly involved,the effects of alcoholism continue to dominate.
Every time I read that, I'm like, yeah,that's one of the reasons I'm still here.
I was living with active alcoholism for atleast 20 years before I came into Al Anon.
(24:04):
So those effects I think wererelatively deeply ingrained into me.
So we take the first step.
What does this paragraph say to you, Nora?
Nora (24:16):
As I was saying before, I, the love equals interference and just the enmeshment, that's what I think love is and confusing.
I just, I was confused, totally, confused.
You know, in the 12 and 12 , There was.
One part, when it just starts on step one.
(24:39):
many of us came to Al Anon to learn the secret ofcompelling someone close to us to stop the damaging and degrading overuse of alcohol, how discouraging it seemed at first to be told there was nothing we could do to force anyone to seek sobriety.
Helpless and hopeless.
And I wrote clueless and confused.
(25:00):
We were still not ready to surrender.
Yet, how encouraging it was to learn that we were notresponsible for the drinking as so many of us had feared.
Yeah.
The confusion.
We're in the middle of the disease withno clue that I'm in the middle of the disease, no clue that there is any disease.
(25:22):
I don't see a disease.
I don't see a disease.
they're having a few drinks, whatever.
Maybe they could drink a little less.
but the thing is that I need to admit that I'mpowerless over alcohol, and that my life has become unmanageable all the time, and that I have no power over people, places, and things, over the weather.
(25:44):
And that can help me get more into acceptance.
However, my defaults are so wellingrained, factory installed, that, yeah, it takes a bit to form the new habits.
And I've noticed that I haven't been maybe as diligentas I could be, but I don't want to criticize myself.
(26:07):
I'm just saying I'm observing.
That's another thing I'm trying to bring in gentleobservance of my process as I'm working on absorbing and incorporating this new way of living and being.
This honesty is really attractive to me.
Cause I haven't always been honest at all.
(26:31):
because I think of the confusion andshame and just Oh, I can't do this.
and
like all this different manipulation andrunning around and trying to hide different things that I don't even know what I'm hiding.
It's like this program is helping me to getto know myself, get to know the beauty of the world and other people and higher power
(26:56):
. This honesty is empowering.
the empowerment, of admitting that I'm powerless.
It's freeing.
It is like you mentioned, we didn't cause, we can'tcontrol, and we can't cure the alcoholic alcoholism.
That's freeing.
And like we were mentioning earlier, the burden beinglifted off of my shoulders, the responsibility, because it, it's an illusion and a delusion and a falsehood, and it's a twisted, Strange myth that I've been living under.
(27:34):
So to get to drop gently and slowly and then take itback, these old myths, and then get to come into who.
I could really be like a better potential anda more loving and present and accepting person.
Not accepting unacceptable behavior, but, justaccepting the things that I cannot change and accepting that my process is what it is and I have a default.
(28:10):
Of which I like to refer to it as adefault and not a defect, but, defenses.
Oh, recently I thought of a character challenges.
I have certain character challenges.
Yeah.
So just allow and not try to hide and deny becausedenial, that's A big ass river that, I don't need that.
(28:41):
It just doesn't help anything.
I don't think.
Spencer (28:45):
Wanna read the next paragraph?
Nora (28:47):
Sure.
Al Anon does not promise that every alcoholicwill get sober or that sobriety will solve all our problems or fix our relationships.
We may never have the family of our dreams orwin the love of those who have no love to give.
Oh yeah.
But our program does offer us hopebecause it is all about change.
(29:13):
By being honest and admitting the power we tried towield over alcoholism was never readily available to us, we let go of the illusion that kept us imprisoned in an endless cycle of repetitious, self defeating behavior and inevitable disappointment.
(29:36):
Yeah.
Honesty.
And maybe having a pause on lookingfor love in all the wrong places.
that was such a relief to me.
You know, I've had struggle with my relationship,with my father for basically all my life, And, it was such a relief to just let it go.
(29:56):
It wasn't going to happen.
He wasn't able or willing.
In fact, I asked him for unconditional love in 1998.
And he said, no.
That should have been the time.
Like, Oh, okay.
That's it.
but I kept trying anyway, and it never worked.
(30:18):
Honestly admitting that I can't force anyone to do anything.
And there are plenty of people who love me.
I don't need that one person and I bless him and I love him.
And I release him and then I'm free.
(30:41):
I may still have to go to some other deep therapy at somepoint to really process some stuff, but I'm not really ready to do that, but I feel so much more free and I can spend my time on myself and other people that I love.
And that love me.
Spencer (31:02):
This paragraph for me is the turning point in the reading.
Because it starts out, Al Anon does not promisethat every alcoholic will get sober or that sobriety will solve our problems or fix our relationships.
And I'm like, hell, why am I here?
But what it's really saying is the thingsthat happen outside of me, the alcoholic getting sober or sobriety solving my problems.
(31:33):
Those are the things that I don't have power over.
and when I am able to move past thoseexpectations, then I can let go of this illusion of power, of control and move into a solution.
(31:55):
Which is what the next paragraph is about.
We'll get to that in a minute.
One of the things that I discoveredabout the truth of this first sentence.
When my loved one did find sobriety, and thatdidn't happen right away, my, my alcoholic did not get sober just because I came to Al Anon.
(32:16):
There were problems.
There were still problems.
Sobriety all by itself did not fix them.
there were some underlying problems, andthere were some new problems, of course, too.
What I had thought the first few times Iheard about Al Anon, was not my problem.
I don't need a 12 step program.
she needs to get sober and then everything will be great.
(32:39):
This sentence is a reality check on that.
Especially where this intimate relationshiphad been so damaged by the disease.
Just removing the symptom, which is the drinking, ofthe disease, doesn't automatically fix that damage.
(33:02):
okay, so last week I was breaking in a new pairof sandals, and I wore them a little bit too long.
It rubbed a little spot on one of my toes, raw.
And you know what?
Just removing the sandals did not heal that spot instantly.
Like I had to take action to, to help it heal.
(33:23):
And now I'm wearing the sandals again, but I'm breakingthem in more slowly so that doesn't happen again.
and the same thing, just removing the alcoholdidn't automatically fix everything, which of course had been my delusional expectation.
There's a lot of truth in this reading here for me.
Nora (33:44):
Yeah the self defeating behavior and repetitive, repetitious, just In an old rut, like no way to get out, just keep doing the same thing even though it ain't working.
No clue to how to get out, how to shift and change.
(34:05):
Oh, maybe I should try something different.
Maybe I try something different.
No, it just didn't occur to me, at all.
Spencer (34:16):
I was talking about that experience of hearing, I didn't cause, I couldn't control, I couldn't cure, and feeling lighter, feeling like this weight had come off of me, and then, the next thing is, if what I've been doing isn't working, what do I do now?
And that's what brought me to Al Anon.
I was like, I guess I'll give this thing a try.
(34:36):
It's an hour out of my life.
If I don't like it, I don't have to come back.
Nora (34:40):
Yeah,
Spencer (34:41):
I don't know what else to do.
Nora (34:43):
Beautiful gift of desperation,
Spencer (34:46):
Although, although.
So I'm leaving the treatment center.
I'm getting on the highway to drive home.
I call a friend who I knew was in AA.
And I asked him, Hey, you know anything about Al Anon?
Cause I didn't know who to call, right?
Like I didn't know, he was the only person I knewthat was connected to alcoholism, recovery, whatever.
(35:09):
I don't know that I even had the vocabulary at that point.
And he said, yeah, there's a really good meeting.
It's around the corner from my house.
It's tonight.
I could take you and introduce you to some people.
Would you like that?
And of course, knowing me as I do, I said,I'm going to have to think about that.
(35:30):
like I'm reaching out for help, help is offered.
I got think about it.
Okay.
Nora (35:35):
The resistance.
Spencer (35:38):
About 30 seconds later, I called him back and said, yes, please.
and that's how I got to my first meeting.
Nora (35:44):
Beautiful.
Spencer (35:46):
The last paragraph, I love the imagery in this last paragraph.
It is as if we are lost in a desert.
Not far away as a freshwater stream, but until now we havefailed to notice it because we have been chasing a mirage, an imaginary oasis that recedes whenever we approach.
Only when we finally stop, take stock of what ourefforts have produced, Or, I would say, not produced.
(36:11):
Okay, that's me being onto editorial here.
And admit that we have been pursuing an illusion.
Can we turn in a direction thatwill actually meet our needs?
Likewise, when we let go of the illusion of powerover alcohol and over other people, we move in a more positive, productive, and rewarding direction.
We move toward hope.
(36:34):
And man, if that last sentence wasn'tthere, this reading would be a real downer.
Nora (36:37):
Yeah, that hope is pretty important.
And I do love that imagery too.
The freshwater stream and just knowing that there is away to get the nourishment and the quench that we need.
That there are different ways.
And that, yeah, hope.
(37:00):
I like that we move in a more positive,productive, and rewarding direction.
We move toward hope.
Yeah, because I was lost in a desert and just clueless.
I mean, which way do you go if you're lost?
I generally go in circles or I go inthe opposite direction that Is home.
(37:22):
Yeah,
Spencer (37:24):
Yeah.
and the mirage of if I just say the right thing, if I justdo the right thing, she'll change, he'll change, whatever.
It's such a deceptively attractive mirage.
But it ain't real.
But it's just out of reach.
It's all, it's very clearly just out of reach.
(37:48):
I know, tomorrow, I'll get it right.
Never happened.
Never happened.
Nora (37:58):
yeah.
Yeah.
And it is a part of my compulsion and obsession.
Just like the drinkers drink or the druggersdrug or whatever the thing is that somebody else is compulsive about, obsessed about.
What a relief if I can finally let that go.
(38:20):
I need to remember, it's a everyday, every moment because I think.
What had happened was I got a littlecomplacent and resting on my laurels cause, Oh, I did the 12 steps and I'm all good now.
And, I just never really heard that part aboutit's a 24 hour program . You do the thing, the prayer, meditation every day, the 1, 2, 3 and the four, the 10, the whole thing basically.
(38:50):
And when I go to meetings, I listen andI use it as a prayer and a meditation.
Just the 12 steps to practice I guess releasing theillusions and the delusions and the confusion, the compulsion, the obsession, and trying to attach to something greater than myself and letting people live, let go and let God live and let live and just practice that acceptance.
(39:24):
I'm working towards getting to radical selfacceptance, radical acceptance of other people.
It's not like, Boom, it's done.
Oh, I got that one done.
Not at all.
I like to think if I did itconsistently, maybe it would be habitual.
I'm hoping at some point.
It's about consciousness and awareness.
(39:47):
And when I'm not using my brain and my consciousnessand my heart, then I revert to the old ways.
The imaginary oasis, the illusion that, oh, I'mgoing to just say this one thing, yesterday?
Or the day before, I found a vape in mydaughter's purse and I just threw it out.
(40:12):
That was a violation.
so I thought I was a little furtheralong, but I'm not, apparently.
Spencer (40:18):
in my experience, after over 20 years in the program, the new behaviors are more likely to happen first, but they don't always, I have said it took me 40 something years to get here.
(40:42):
40 something years of developing my character,what did you say, character challenges.
Nora (40:49):
yeah, and default.
Spencer (40:52):
another person I talked to recently talked about character defenses.
I have been developing and practicingthose for 40, we'll say 45 years.
I can't do the math.
it was more than 45 years, whatever.
I don't know, maybe the first few years don't countbecause I wasn't like conscious or whatever, depending what you believe about the consciousness of babies.
(41:14):
but if it took me 45 years to get here, is it goingto take me like 45 years to change everything.
It might.
Okay.
I'm only halfway there and probablyby the time I get there, I'll be dead.
So, you know, just keep coming.
Just keep coming back.
Nora (41:32):
want to be able to grant myself more grace and gentleness and not judge.
Judgment is not helpful.
Spencer (41:42):
yeah.
Nora (41:42):
It's hurtful,
harsh criticism, not terrific.
Spencer (41:48):
being able to say, Oh, I'm human.
Nora (41:52):
Welcome to the human race.
It's nice.
It's a pretty
good community in general.
Spencer (41:58):
I often ask this question , what would you say to yourself when you were first coming into recovery?
, Nora: I'd say just keep doing it.
Keep coming back.
Trust.
I think I could have focused more on, ontrust , but I think I did it pretty good.
(42:19):
I, my sponsor really helped me, getthe higher power piece in there.
I know we're not talking about step two, but, it's really good that step two comes right after step one, because step one, I'm saying I can't do it and step two says there is help if you want to accept it.
(42:43):
Steps two and three together,
Nora (42:45):
1, 2, and 3, I would
say.
yeah.
I think they really go together like peanutbutter and jelly, or arugula and avocado toast.
Spencer (42:58):
Okay.
Okay.
I would not have gone there, but that's fun.
Thank you.
thank you for that.
After a short break, we'll continue withOur Lives in Recovery, where we talk about how recovery is working in our daily lives.
I asked you to pick some music.
(43:19):
Talk about the first one that you picked, which all themusic will be available on the website at therecovery.
show slash 413.
Nora (43:29):
Yeah, I picked Van Morrison's, Go Into the Mystery, not Into the Mystic.
Sounds similar, but, this, Let gointo the mystery, let yourself go.
You've got to open up your heart.
Yeah, that's all I know.
Trust what I say and do what you're told.
(43:50):
A baby with all your dirt will turn into gold.
It's letting go and opening up.
It's just what it's saying it right there.
And trusting that's the dirt will turnto gold because there's a lot of dirt.
When you open up your heart, you get everything you need.
(44:13):
There's a way and a mystic road.
You've got to have some faith.
Yeah.
To carry on.
It's.
Where I want to go, it's mysterious to step one.
I mean, starting this whole programis like, what the heck is this
It says, let go into the mystery.
Let yourself go.
There's no other place to be, baby.
This, I know you've got to dance and singand be alive in the mystery and be joyous and give thanks and let yourself go.
(44:41):
I think the joyous might come later and the thanks, maybe.
It's mysterious.
It's what is this stuff?
And.
It's scary, too, actually, because you are lettinggo of this tight grip on the illusions and delusions.
I love Van Morrison.
Spencer (45:09):
In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery.
How have we experienced recovery recently?
Yesterday was in my meeting where we're currently.
Going through the traditions, we're using the AlAnon book, Reaching for Personal Freedom, which asks us to reflect on how the steps, traditions, and concepts connect to our personal lives rather than, in the context of Al Anon with the traditions.
(45:40):
We were looking at tradition.
Eight, which is about, being non professionalin Al Anon, but also being able to hire special workers, for, the service work, and so on.
The questions that we were looking at yesterday morning wereall about, when do we reach out for help when do we realize that we're not able to do something ourselves and that we need to get help from somebody, I reflected on how when I was younger, I felt like I had to do everything myself.
(46:17):
I think I was brought up in thatway that you do things yourself.
I'm sure when I was little, I thought my fathercould do everything and I wanted to be like him.
and as I've gotten older and as he got olderalso, I think, I have come to understand that there are some things that I'm good at.
There are some things that are mine to doand there are some things that it's really better for me to have somebody else do it.
(46:43):
Part of that comes with like growing up and getting a goodjob and having money to pay people to do some other things.
but there's also the.
emotional, spiritual aspect of lettinggo of the need to do it all myself.
So that was yesterday, and those questions helpedme to reflect on how that has changed in my life and how that's continuing to change in my life as I get older, and it's just maybe not physically possible for me to do some things that I used to do.
(47:15):
this morning, today's Sunday, as we're recordingthis morning I was at church and in this service we were recognizing the youth who were seniors and were thus, the word we use is bridging from youthhood, is that a word, to adulthood.
(47:37):
they're moving out of being youth in thecommunity to being young adults in the community.
They're moving into.
They're not moving out of.
They're moving into.
They're moving between.
I've been working with our high school age youth over thelast maybe decade and a half, that has been a lot of my focus of how I'm providing service in, in that community.
(47:59):
So.
It's a moving thing for me to seethese young people becoming adults.
I mean, you know, it's not like they'reinstantaneously adults, you know that.
And then, the lead advisor, gave a little talk and Shesaid, look, even though you're moving forward in your lives, you may be going away to college or whatever you're doing.
(48:22):
we're still here and we're always here to help you.
And you should know that asking for help issomething that sometimes you have to do it.
She said it a lot better than I'msaying it right now, honest to God.
and I thought, yeah, I have to learn how to ask for help.
did I ask for help when I was 18?
(48:42):
I asked my parents to pay for college, I guessthat's, but not like in the important things, right?
The things that were important tome, like I had to do them myself.
So I don't know.
Those two things came together in this theme of.
It's okay to ask for help, to get help for those thingsthat I'm not able to do by myself, for whatever reason.
(49:05):
that's the recovery message in mylife in the last, last few days.
Anyway, I think I'll stop with that.
Nora (49:11):
Yeah, that's great.
Actually, it's funny.
I also have been thinking about the eighth tradition,which I always was amused by because, it says, Al Anon 12 step work should remain forever non professional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
(49:33):
And I just thought it was funny because I alwaysthought I could be more professional, and now you're telling me maybe don't be professional.
And just, I thought it was really funnyand cool, but it makes a lot of sense.
I have recently.
(49:54):
Somebody to help me, to assist me.
I'm traveling right now and I needed somebody to, towatch the place and take care of stuff and start actually an inventory of some of my work, not 12 step inventory.
and so that's good.
Maybe symbolic also.
and I think this is about trust and thatis my main, there's about 20 main things, but trust, and frog, full reliance on God.
Spencer (50:26):
I haven't heard that one.
Nora (50:27):
oh, you haven't?
Yeah, I love that one.
I have it on a bracelet to remind me.
Frog, full reliance on God.
it's hard to remember for me a lot,it's a way for me to shift my thinking.
And to get out of my defaults, my characterchallenges, my defenses, old habits die hard.
(50:52):
And unless I'm fastidious and consistent andcommitted to doing this, I default back and that's honesty, that's part of this first step really.
And I feel like I am on my first step now again.
just admitting and being honest.
(51:16):
The default is that my life is unmanageable I getto take actions to make it possibly a little bit more manageable by not trying to control the uncontrollable, not trying to tell other people what to do and such.
I've been sharing and sharing it.
I meet my home group meeting onTuesday nights out of New York.
(51:41):
Still going a bunch of meetings and just workingto clear out and clean out my place a bit because I've been a little bit of a pack rat and I'm eager to have the spiritual cleansing.
That goes with a physical cleansing.
(52:03):
So I see that as part of my program.
I think it's all in integral andintegrated and of one with each other.
I think I've been pretty good about being generally, I'mafraid to say this, but honest in admitting when I'm wrong.
if Somebody says, Oh, you did this, then I admit it.
(52:27):
But the key is for me to have and develop thecalm and the connection to a higher power to not need to make amends and to be corrected by others.
That would be cool.
That would be nice.
I'm looking forward to that.
(52:50):
Yeah.
Spencer (52:51):
Okay.
Looking forward in the podcast, as I said,I'm starting this series on the steps.
I intend to finish this series on the steps.
So I'll be looking for people to join me like Noradid today to first steps, two, three, four, et cetera.
I do want to try to do them in order, just because.
(53:13):
So that's coming up and we, as usual, wewelcome your thoughts, your questions.
You can join our conversation here.
You can leave a voicemail or send us anemail with your feedback or your questions.
And Nora, how can people send us feedback?
Nora (53:29):
You can send a voice memo or email to feedback at therecovery.
show.
Or, if you prefer, you can call andleave us a voicemail at 734-707-8795
(53:50):
734 707 8795.
You can also use the voicemail button on thewebsite to join the conversation from your computer.
We'd love to hear from you, share your experience, strength,and hope, or your questions about today's topic of step one, or any of our upcoming topics, including more steps.
(54:16):
If you have a topic you'd liketo talk to us about, let us know.
If you would like advance notice for some of our topicsso that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback.
at the recovery.
show.
Email in the subject line to make it easier to spot.
Spencer (54:40):
And our website is therecovery.
show.
We have all the information about the showthere, which mostly is notes for each episode.
Those will include links to the books or other literaturethat we read from, videos for the music, and there's also some links to other Recovery podcasts and websites.
(55:00):
Your next song here is
Nora (55:05):
it's the flaming lips it's called feeling yourself disintegrate.
I'm not sure if that's the actual title,love in our life is just too valuable.
Oh, to feel for even a second without it,but life without death is just impossible.
It's makes me think of all right, I don't know how tosay it, but the idea of how death and the awareness of death can make us live our own life, our life in the present more fully and better and with appreciation and gratitude and then it ends with, feeling yourself disintegrate, which it repeats it eight times.
(55:54):
It's kind of, I'm looking for a spiritualdeath, to become what I could become.
And Admitting that I'm powerless and mylife has become unmanageable is a new way of living, of awakening to the truth.
(56:18):
And yeah, there's some cognitive dissonanceand, kind of feeling in limbo and afraid, not knowing what the heck is going to happen.
but, it's releasing.
releasing fear the promise of redemptionbeing able to get the spiritual nourishment and transformation that I'm looking for.
(56:49):
Feel the fear and do it anyway.
free fall into trust.
Spencer (57:02):
We got a couple of voicemails and an email from you this week.
we got a voicemail from Anita,
Anita (57:10):
Hello, Spencer.
This is Anita from Arkansas, Northwest Arkansas.
I, have been listening to your show for quite awhile, and literally just called in for the first time after, many nudges from my higher power.
I'm currently listening to, the Genevieve, Together WeCan Make It episode from August 29th, 2019, which I know is an older episode because I've listened to others, and you've just gotten your dog, and we've been through the
(57:38):
experience of your dog, and through the, sorrowful deathof your parents, and I'm so sorry about that and just wanted to I want to give you my condolences and love.
but I wanted to also just tell youhow amazing I think a higher power is.
I was going on a walk with my dogs this morningand, my brother whom I have a strained relationship with called to tell me that our cousin, our second cousin I guess, died of an overdose yesterday.
(58:12):
it was a tragedy.
She was, just barely 30 years old, and, of course, thefamily, that lives in another state, I just can't even, there's so much I want to say, but, But just that.
And I visited with him and visitedwith some other family members.
but as I do when I walk my dogs was also turnedon the Recovery Show podcast and just how so Remarkable, it was just random selection.
(58:38):
This was the episode.
And, then I went to my Al Anon meeting,which is also my Saturday event.
And, how it too, the subject of, Tragedy andloss and recovery and strength and hope that we get within this program how it just rang true.
(58:58):
I just really appreciate you, as many people do,as I hear, throughout listening to this program.
It is such a blessing to, Be able to pull it up anytime,any day, any section, be able to rewind, be able to cry through, laugh through, and I just encourage and thank all of your contributors They have been on there, Genevieve and, the other people that have co hosted with you.
(59:29):
I just really appreciate you guysfrom the very bottom of my heart.
I appreciate you being there to be atool for the wonderful God that I have.
Spencer (59:38):
Thank you, Anita, for sharing that experience of support from your higher power.
it is amazing how that synchronicityworks sometimes, isn't it?
Thanks for the kind words.
Mary writes, Hi, my name is Mary.
I have 37 years in recovery andI'm going through retirement.
(59:58):
I love hearing your journey.
I would love to do a show on how recoveryis helping in the challenge of retirement.
It isn't exactly what I thought it was going to be.
A couple of exclamation points there.
I wrote back to Mary and said, Yes, please.
I'd Love to do an episode with you.
hopefully we'll get to hear, what isn't exactly what shethought, and how recovery is helping her during retirement.
(01:00:23):
And, we'll probably explore a littlebit of, what's going on with me too.
we have a voicemail from Pat,
Pat (01:00:29):
Hi Spencer, this is Pat from the West Coast.
you had someone call in and ask about workingthe Blueprint for Progress, step four.
It's worth noting there are two differentprint, Blueprint for Progresses.
There's this very small pamphlet which is the original one.
And I would encourage the person not to usethat one, but to use the larger format one, it's about 8 by 11, with a spiral binder.
(01:00:56):
the other thing is, I've worked Step 4 many times withboth sponsees and myself using the Blueprint for Progress.
And I found that I would not go frontto back with that particular book.
what worked best for, us was to identify those issuesthat popped up as being the most problematic for me.
(01:01:20):
The very first tip I worked in there was anger.
And so that was where we went was tothe area that I could already identify.
At the beginning of my Step 4 process as being aroadblock to my serenity and preventing me from becoming the person and being the person that I wanted to be.
(01:01:40):
I hope that's helpful feedback.
I do really like that particular workbook.
the other one, Oh, I can't remember.
It's the green one with the trees on the front.
It's also excellent.
but I think it is, really great to usefor someone who's already done STEP 4, at least once maybe with a different format.
(01:02:00):
Or has been in the program for quite a while.
There you go.
Thanks, and enjoy your, continueto enjoy your, your retirement.
That's so exciting, and I appreciate that you're continuingto work and produce broadcasts while you're retired.
Thank you so much for your service, Spencer.
Okay, bye bye.
Everybody have a good summer.
Spencer (01:02:20):
Thank you, Pat, for sharing that experience.
I will say when I did the blueprint, I went straightthrough from front to back, but you're right, that might not be the best way for everybody.
the green book with the tree on the frontis called Reaching for Personal Freedom.
it's a good workbook for studying the stepsand also the traditions and the concepts.
(01:02:41):
I don't think I would use it for step four though.
it's not as searching certainly as theblueprint, which may be a little too searching.
the other book that I've used and I've mentioned this anumber of times is the TAN book called Paths to Recovery, which has Readings, and then questions for each step.
And I've used that several times myself.
(01:03:04):
That's it for feedback this week.
Nora, I really want to thank you again for, exploring stepone with me today, I really enjoyed this conversation.
Thanks.
Nora (01:03:16):
was my pleasure.
It was my honor and great, experience.
Thank you.
Spencer (01:03:25):
And you picked one more song.
What is it?
Nora (01:03:27):
You Ain't Alone by Alabama Shakes,
The person who is singing and speaking this songshifts, it plays between maybe a lover, a friend to maybe a higher power is how I was taking it.
It speaks about being scared, to tell someonehow you feel, thinking about what other people think, which of course, if I'm thinking about.
(01:03:55):
What other people think I'm not in my own mind.
I'm out of my mind.
So, are you scared to wear your heart out on your sleeve?
Cry if you're gonna cry.
It's important to cry.
this is a release and a transformation andcry if you're gonna cry, come on, cry with me.
(01:04:19):
Cry if you're gonna cry, come on, oh cry with me.
you ain't alone, just let me be your ticket home.
you ain't alone, just let me be your ticket home.
Is just helping.
To go to that place, to just really feel and be honest,acknowledge what has been going on, acknowledge the disease.
(01:04:45):
And the ticket home is, is that I sayredemption again, it's essential, this, not.
Feeling alone, of course, in our program.
we, you can't, I can't do it alone.
I use the phone.
it's essential.
Having a sponsor, making program calls, reaching out,
Spencer (01:05:15):
Thank you for listening, and please keep coming back.
Whatever your problems, there arethose among us who have had them, too.
If we did not talk about a problem you arefacing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode.
May understanding, love, and peacegrow in you one day at a time.
Step one.
We admitted we were powerless over alcoholand that our lives were unmanageable.
What does this mean to you?
How have you experienced this in your life?
Welcome to episode 413 of The Recovery Show.
This episode is brought to you by Janice,Tammy, Shawna, Renee, Mae, Deanna, and Andrea.
(00:22):
They used the donation button on our website.
Thank you, Janice, Tammy, Shawna, Renee, Mae,Deanna, and Andrea for your generous contributions.
This episode is for you.
We are friends and family members of alcoholics andaddicts who have found a path to serenity and happiness.
We who live or have lived with the seemingly hopelessproblem of addiction understand as perhaps few others can.
(00:46):
So much depends on our own attitudes, and webelieve that changed attitudes can aid recovery.
Nora (00:53):
Before we begin, we would like to state that in this show, we represent ourselves rather than any 12 step program.
During this show, we will share our own experiences.
The opinions expressed here are strictlythose of the person who gave them.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
(01:13):
We hope that you will find something inour sharing that speaks to your life.
Spencer (01:19):
My name is Spencer.
I am your host today, and joining me today is Nora.
Welcome to the Recovery Show, Nora.
Nora (01:26):
Thank you, Spencer.
I'm very honored to be here, very happy to be here,
Spencer (01:31):
This is our second episode in the Steps series.
The first one was number 411, where we talked aboutthe Steps in general, an introduction to the Steps, And today we're going to be talking about Step 1, and the structure that I'm using here is to read from our literature, from the book How Al Anon Works.
(01:55):
We're going to be reading from Chapter 8, whichis titled 12 Steps, and we're reading Step 1, which in the paperback edition, is pages 45 to 47.
The first paragraph of the reading starts with the step.
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol,that our lives had become unmanageable.
Each of our lives has been devastatedby someone else's drinking.
(02:17):
We cannot change that fact.
We have been profoundly affectedby the disease of alcoholism.
Its effects continue to permeate our lives.
Nor can we change the behavior orthe attitudes of those around us.
We can't even put a stop to the drinking.
We are powerless over alcohol.
As long as we persist in the delusion that we cancontrol or cure alcoholism, its symptoms, or its effects, we continue to fight a battle that we cannot win.
(02:46):
Our self esteem suffers, our relationshipssuffer, and our ability to enjoy life suffers.
All of our energy is wasted on a hopeless endeavor untilthere is nothing left over for attending to our own needs.
Our lives have become unmanageable.
this paragraph feels to me sometimes harsh, haswords like devastated and profoundly affected and permeate our lives, a battle that we cannot win, but it very accurately also describes where my life was.
(03:24):
When I entered the program.
Devastated is not too hard of a word.
I think for where I was, where I was in thebattle to try to control my wife's drinking and the effects that it was having on our lives.
And what I didn't know was the effects that my reactionsand my attempts to control were also having on our lives.
(03:49):
I did not see that.
and that I think comes along a little bitlater, in these readings actually, but I was fighting a battle that I could not win.
and yeah, my self esteem suffered, my relationshipsuffered, my ability to enjoy life suffered.
Oh my God.
Yes.
I was not enjoying life.
I was breaking off relationships, friends, and familybecause I didn't want people to see what was happening.
(04:16):
and I felt shameful that I couldn't do anythingabout it and that, right there on my self esteem.
My energy was wasted on this hopeless endeavor.
Yeah, so it's harsh, but it also,for me, it was very accurate.
How about you, Nora?
Nora (04:34):
a lot of things you just shared, I could relate to a lot.
And one of the first things I was thinkingof in the reading was the reactivity.
it's like feeling out of control, hopeless, notat the place where I know what the heck is going on because I'm in the middle of the disease.
(04:56):
I have the disease too.
I'm not an alcoholic, but I'maffected, as we are in Al Anon.
That's why we're here.
it's a quagmire and it's a mystery and itis harsh and it's, there's no solution.
It's that thing.
Oh, I'll just try anything to feel likeI'm doing something, but that doesn't work.
(05:20):
a hopeless endeavor.
shame is a major thing that this program hasbeen helping me with a lot, releasing it.
it's just what the heck?
Because in reaction to the situation, Idefinitely acted worse a lot of times than the alcoholic, whatever alcoholic I was with.
(05:48):
That created a lot of shame and, being able to be honestand get to see what the heck really happened and what I was in and what I was up against, what I'm still up against, because I don't think the disease goes away.
It just becomes maybe more manageable every day.
(06:10):
if I practice it, if I do the prayer and meditation, yeah.
My life had become unmanageable.
That's how I got to get my way in here.
Spencer (06:21):
You want to read the second paragraph?
Nora (06:23):
Sure.
Whether or not we live with active drinking,life is unmanageable whenever we lose perspective about what is and is not our responsibility.
We take offense at actions that have nothing to dowith us, or we intervene when it is inappropriate.
(06:43):
And neglect our legitimateobligations to ourselves and others.
Our misplaced concern for others becomes intrusive,meddling, resented, and doomed to failure.
Instead of helping those we care about,we demonstrate a lack of respect for them and create discord in our relationships.
(07:06):
Yeah, I had no idea.
I was so shocked when I first came in and theysaid, you giving advice is actually not helpful.
Like what?
that's my job.
Are you joking me?
That's my vocation.
I'm a, I'm not professional, butyou know, I might as well be.
I didn't go to school for it, but.
(07:27):
because I was telling you what to do.
And that is, as it turns out, disrespectful becauseI'm saying, I am superior and I know what to do.
And I am God, him or herself or itself or themselfor the universe or higher power or whatever.
(07:48):
I was raised with a incredible amount of hubrisand arrogance and pretension and superiority, which comes from inferiority, I'm sure.
but I didn't know how to detach or how to live my own life.
It was all, enmeshment and reactivity.
(08:10):
And if I love you, I'm going to tell youwhat to do and be all up in your grill and your face and telling you this and that.
Because I'm so helpful and loving and caringand terrific and wonderful and saintly.
So you're welcome.
And maybe a check will be in the mail, but probably not.
Cause you know, whatever you can just, I just love you.
(08:32):
but, yeah, it just, it was ego.
So yeah, I, I had trouble.
Spencer (08:38):
when I look at this, That first sentence, what is and is not our responsibility.
I thought everything was my responsibility.
That was my perspective.
everything, My stuff is my responsibility.
My wife's stuff is my responsibility.
My kid's stuff is my responsibility.
My co worker's stuff is my responsibility.
Everything.
(08:59):
had I lost perspective?
I guess so.
and when something is not right, like, you know, activealcoholism, then I'm going to focus my efforts on that.
My responsibility on that,intervene where it is inappropriate.
My memory of that time is even though I was sober,it's still foggy enough that I can't really recognize places where I did that, but I know that I did.
(09:31):
Which, wow, that's kind of scary, isn't it?
intrusive meddling, resented and doomed to failure.
No kidding.
And discord in our relationships.
I've talked before about the angerthat I had and how that came out.
very inappropriately, on peoplethat really did not deserve it.
(09:53):
I mean, nobody deserves me raging at them, I suppose,but people who had committed, let's say, very minor offenses to which I reacted with a flamethrower.
Figuratively speaking.
Nora (10:09):
Yeah.
There was a lot of rage.
I think, generational rage.
Cause I don't just blame my father, my mothera little bit, but mostly my father, I don't blame, just, this is what was learned and taught.
And that was what I observed and what was modeled.
(10:34):
I almost wanted to say no harm, nofoul, but a little bit of hurt and foul,
but no, no blame, no shame.
Just I only have the skills that I have at this moment.
I only have the experiences that I have at this moment.
I've only learned what I've learned.
I've only had the teachers that I'vehad and the role models that I've had.
(10:57):
And I'm so happy that I found thisprogram and, other spiritual practices.
that I get nourished by and learn and grow from.
Spencer (11:10):
The next paragraph here just, really continues to focus on this unmanageability aspect.
When our preoccupation with others distracts usfrom our responsibilities to attend to our own physical, emotional, and spiritual health, we suffer.
Our health and self esteem decline.
We become incapable of accepting reality,coping with change, or finding happiness.
(11:34):
Our lives fly out of control.
I think what I'm going to say hereis, yeah, my life was out of control.
And actually going back a littlebit to the previous paragraph.
I remember, and I think this was maybe just beforeI came into Al Anon, I don't remember exactly the relative timing, but I had a number of blowups at work and my boss said, I think you should, take some anger management or something, which is an indication of my spiritual health suffering, my emotional health suffering.
(12:08):
I did.
I joined Al Anon.
And that was not why I was joining Al Anon, right?
But it had that effect of actually removing the rage.
I still get angry on occasion.
there are occasions in life where things happen thatI get angry about, but my reaction to those things is completely different from what it used to be.
(12:32):
What are your thoughts on this short paragraph?
Nora (12:36):
Focus comes to mind.
Where is my focus?
Am I, Obsessing about another person,their life, so that I can't manage my own.
My life is a full time job to manage, and if I'm notspending most of my time and energy doing that, it's not going to be at the level that I want it to be if I'm expending all my time and energy on external things other people other obsessions, compulsions.
(13:10):
Yeah, it's about focus.
It's finding that, that balance.
Spencer (13:16):
Yeah, I think about preoccupation with others distract us from our responsibilities to attend to our own health.
I remember towards the end of my parents lives, mybrother was living with them as primary caregiver and his preoccupation, if you will, was with their health, with what was going on in their lives.
(13:37):
And managing a team of caregivers because hecouldn't be awake 24 7 to take care of them.
I think in consequence, because he was distractedfrom his own self, he had a number of medical emergencies , he would end up in the ER.
(13:57):
That, as far as I know, has not happened, once thatresponsibility was gone because our parents, passed on.
when you look at that situation, it's like,well, of course he was focusing on their needs.
they were the obvious elephant in the room.
We admitted it.
And, my sister and I encouraged him to do thingsfor self care, but you can only say so much, right?
(14:24):
so yeah, it's not just in this addiction,alcoholism scenario that this happens.
It does happen in other cases.
When you have a newborn, I know ourfocus was like, take care of the baby.
Actually, we had two, so it was take care of the babies.
(14:44):
I'm sure we, we didn't shower as often and we didn't dowhatever, because there was this monofocus on, on the kids.
What we're saying here is, yeah, but you juststill gotta be able to take care of yourself or else your life becomes unmanageable.
It flies out of control.
Can you read the next paragraph
(15:06):
?Nora: Yeah.
With this first step, we admit, that we didnot cause, cannot control, and cannot cure the alcoholic, the disease of alcoholism, or the fact that we have been affected by this disease.
We are powerless over alcohol and its effects on us.
By ourselves, we can do nothing toovercome the effects of this disease.
(15:32):
In fact, our attempts to exert power overalcohol have made our lives unmanageable.
I think I'm going to just add the next one on,
Nora (15:42):
Okay.
Spencer (15:43):
Taking this first step allows a great weight to fall from our shoulders.
We let go of the losing battle we have been waging.
We recognize that there is no point in continuing the fight.
We surrender completely.
And the reason I wanted to add that onis because in my experience, I did not cause, cannot control, and cannot cure.
The alcoholic led right into this feeling thatthis weight was falling from my shoulders.
(16:10):
literally, I felt lighter.
And in the moment that I heard and understood thosewords coming out of the mouth of, a therapist or whatever he was at the treatment center, I let go.
For a moment at least.
I recognized that what I had been trying todo was not something that was mine to do.
(16:33):
I feel like at least for a moment I surrendered.
I said, I can't do this thing.
Then of course the question is, then what?
how about you?
Nora (16:44):
Yeah.
What's coming to mind is just that mindfulness like, firstyou realize it, you say, Oh, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives have become unmanageable.
But now I'm realizing I need to rememberthat every day and in many moments.
And it's not just alcoholism.
It's about anything that I'm havesome preconceived idea of what I want.
(17:09):
Expectations, guaranteed disappointments, resentments.
When I'm like, I want this, I want that,and not just allowing life to unfold, trying to control what is not controllable.
Of course, there are some elements that arecontrollable, but people are not in that category.
(17:34):
Generally.
I mean, maybe it's kids at a certainage, you could try, but good luck.
Spencer (17:39):
I was in a meeting and the topic was around powerlessness or something and I said something like, I don't know why I think I can get my wife to stop drinking.
I can't even get my baby to stop crying.
You know, like,
Nora (17:56):
right, right.
There's just no,
we don't got the power.
Spencer (18:01):
we don't.
Nora (18:02):
No, that's why in, in a step or two, we get to attach to a power greater than ourselves, which is really essential.
That's why when I was first, trying tofigure out what I was going to talk about.
Which step?
I was thinking maybe 1, 2, 3.
'cause they're all so intertwined really.
(18:25):
in a way.
But the, this first one, just the honesty andlook at my situation and what is going on.
I'm trying to control something I can't control.
And the relief of that, like yousaid, of the surrender, what a relief.
Ugh.
(18:48):
It was never my job to do.
I had misassigned myself to a task that wasn't ever mine.
Now I'm working on the idea again of just acceptanceand allowing, because forcing just didn't work, it was only ever Oh Illusions and delusions of control.
(19:13):
I never had control.
My, my life was unmanageable.
It still is today a lot.
Sometimes, I just can't control myself still.
I have trouble.
I'm working on it.
Unless I really pause and meditate, take a breathand attach to something greater than myself.
(19:38):
You know, I would like to mention that I knowpeople have trouble with the whole God and religious thing, but, I think I've gotten over it now.
I had trouble with that too, the patriarchy,but things come in really ugly wrapping sometimes, and it's really irrelevant.
(20:00):
it's the message, and it's the meaning.
If I can see beyond, particular drippings andpackaging, then, I can learn and benefit and grow.
So I use the word God sometimes or higher power or universe.
(20:22):
But yeah, that surrender, wow.
Just the awareness, the awakening.
And all of this happens at the pace it happens.
It could be really slow.
With my recovery, I found that I feel like enlightened.
And then I revert, go way back.
And then I crawl back and it's two stepsforward, three steps back, a lot of the times.
(20:50):
What I get to do is to practiceacceptance of it is what it is.
All I can do is take certain actionsand the actions are the steps.
Yes.
The actions are prayer and meditation, I believe,and writing, journaling, going to meetings, working with a sponsor, sponsees, and um,
Spencer (21:20):
I do hear that.
Nora (21:23):
Yeah, I'm in the hotel and they're cleaning out there and
Spencer (21:26):
Oh, is that what's going on?
Okay.
All right.
, I'm going to read the next paragraph then.
This is no small achievement.
The battle against alcoholism has becomethe basis for many of our relationships.
Putting an end to this battle requirescompletely redefining what we believe about ourselves, others, and our relationships.
(21:47):
For example, many of us haveconfused love with interference.
We don't know how to show affection or supportwithout giving advice, seeking to sway another's decisions, or trying to get those we love to do what we think will bring them happiness.
We confuse caring with controlling because we don't knowhow to allow others the dignity of being themselves.
Those of us who learned to control whatever we couldin order to survive in an alcoholic environment, now continue to try to control everything and everybody without realizing what we are doing.
(22:18):
From past experience, we are terrified to let others doas they wish, but we only harm ourselves and others when we insist upon approaching every interaction in this way.
Our relationships are damaged and ourlives become even more unmanageable.
Thus, even when there are no alcoholics directlyinvolved, the effects of alcoholism continue to dominate.
(22:39):
So we take the first step, we admit we are powerless overalcohol, and that our lives have become unmanageable.
There's a lot in there.
I'm really happy they put in some examples becausewhen they talk about completely redefining what we believe about ourselves, others, and our relationships, I'm like, no, that, that's like too much.
I can't do that.
(23:00):
What are you talking about completely redefining?
but then they give me an example.
We've confused love with interference.
Yeah, I love you.
You're doing something that is hurtingyou and me, and I'm gonna make you change.
Boom.
Easy, right?
we confuse caring with controlling.
Same thing.
(23:21):
I did not grow up in an alcoholic environment.
But I certainly try to control everything.
something was going on there.
There is alcoholism in, at least one side of myfamily, even if it was not in my immediate family.
and I think the effects of that came downthrough one or more generations to me.
(23:43):
So in that sense, this sentence, really applies.
Even when there are no alcoholics directly involved,the effects of alcoholism continue to dominate.
Every time I read that, I'm like, yeah,that's one of the reasons I'm still here.
I was living with active alcoholism for atleast 20 years before I came into Al Anon.
(24:04):
So those effects I think wererelatively deeply ingrained into me.
So we take the first step.
What does this paragraph say to you, Nora?
Nora (24:16):
As I was saying before, I, the love equals interference and just the enmeshment, that's what I think love is and confusing.
I just, I was confused, totally, confused.
You know, in the 12 and 12 , There was.
One part, when it just starts on step one.
(24:39):
many of us came to Al Anon to learn the secret ofcompelling someone close to us to stop the damaging and degrading overuse of alcohol, how discouraging it seemed at first to be told there was nothing we could do to force anyone to seek sobriety.
Helpless and hopeless.
And I wrote clueless and confused.
(25:00):
We were still not ready to surrender.
Yet, how encouraging it was to learn that we were notresponsible for the drinking as so many of us had feared.
Yeah.
The confusion.
We're in the middle of the disease withno clue that I'm in the middle of the disease, no clue that there is any disease.
(25:22):
I don't see a disease.
I don't see a disease.
they're having a few drinks, whatever.
Maybe they could drink a little less.
but the thing is that I need to admit that I'mpowerless over alcohol, and that my life has become unmanageable all the time, and that I have no power over people, places, and things, over the weather.
(25:44):
And that can help me get more into acceptance.
However, my defaults are so wellingrained, factory installed, that, yeah, it takes a bit to form the new habits.
And I've noticed that I haven't been maybe as diligentas I could be, but I don't want to criticize myself.
(26:07):
I'm just saying I'm observing.
That's another thing I'm trying to bring in gentleobservance of my process as I'm working on absorbing and incorporating this new way of living and being.
This honesty is really attractive to me.
Cause I haven't always been honest at all.
(26:31):
because I think of the confusion andshame and just Oh, I can't do this.
and
like all this different manipulation andrunning around and trying to hide different things that I don't even know what I'm hiding.
It's like this program is helping me to getto know myself, get to know the beauty of the world and other people and higher power
(26:56):
. This honesty is empowering.
the empowerment, of admitting that I'm powerless.
It's freeing.
It is like you mentioned, we didn't cause, we can'tcontrol, and we can't cure the alcoholic alcoholism.
That's freeing.
And like we were mentioning earlier, the burden beinglifted off of my shoulders, the responsibility, because it, it's an illusion and a delusion and a falsehood, and it's a twisted, Strange myth that I've been living under.
(27:34):
So to get to drop gently and slowly and then take itback, these old myths, and then get to come into who.
I could really be like a better potential anda more loving and present and accepting person.
Not accepting unacceptable behavior, but, justaccepting the things that I cannot change and accepting that my process is what it is and I have a default.
(28:10):
Of which I like to refer to it as adefault and not a defect, but, defenses.
Oh, recently I thought of a character challenges.
I have certain character challenges.
Yeah.
So just allow and not try to hide and deny becausedenial, that's A big ass river that, I don't need that.
(28:41):
It just doesn't help anything.
I don't think.
Spencer (28:45):
Wanna read the next paragraph?
Nora (28:47):
Sure.
Al Anon does not promise that every alcoholicwill get sober or that sobriety will solve all our problems or fix our relationships.
We may never have the family of our dreams orwin the love of those who have no love to give.
Oh yeah.
But our program does offer us hopebecause it is all about change.
(29:13):
By being honest and admitting the power we tried towield over alcoholism was never readily available to us, we let go of the illusion that kept us imprisoned in an endless cycle of repetitious, self defeating behavior and inevitable disappointment.
(29:36):
Yeah.
Honesty.
And maybe having a pause on lookingfor love in all the wrong places.
that was such a relief to me.
You know, I've had struggle with my relationship,with my father for basically all my life, And, it was such a relief to just let it go.
(29:56):
It wasn't going to happen.
He wasn't able or willing.
In fact, I asked him for unconditional love in 1998.
And he said, no.
That should have been the time.
Like, Oh, okay.
That's it.
but I kept trying anyway, and it never worked.
(30:18):
Honestly admitting that I can't force anyone to do anything.
And there are plenty of people who love me.
I don't need that one person and I bless him and I love him.
And I release him and then I'm free.
(30:41):
I may still have to go to some other deep therapy at somepoint to really process some stuff, but I'm not really ready to do that, but I feel so much more free and I can spend my time on myself and other people that I love.
And that love me.
Spencer (31:02):
This paragraph for me is the turning point in the reading.
Because it starts out, Al Anon does not promisethat every alcoholic will get sober or that sobriety will solve our problems or fix our relationships.
And I'm like, hell, why am I here?
But what it's really saying is the thingsthat happen outside of me, the alcoholic getting sober or sobriety solving my problems.
(31:33):
Those are the things that I don't have power over.
and when I am able to move past thoseexpectations, then I can let go of this illusion of power, of control and move into a solution.
(31:55):
Which is what the next paragraph is about.
We'll get to that in a minute.
One of the things that I discoveredabout the truth of this first sentence.
When my loved one did find sobriety, and thatdidn't happen right away, my, my alcoholic did not get sober just because I came to Al Anon.
(32:16):
There were problems.
There were still problems.
Sobriety all by itself did not fix them.
there were some underlying problems, andthere were some new problems, of course, too.
What I had thought the first few times Iheard about Al Anon, was not my problem.
I don't need a 12 step program.
she needs to get sober and then everything will be great.
(32:39):
This sentence is a reality check on that.
Especially where this intimate relationshiphad been so damaged by the disease.
Just removing the symptom, which is the drinking, ofthe disease, doesn't automatically fix that damage.
(33:02):
okay, so last week I was breaking in a new pairof sandals, and I wore them a little bit too long.
It rubbed a little spot on one of my toes, raw.
And you know what?
Just removing the sandals did not heal that spot instantly.
Like I had to take action to, to help it heal.
(33:23):
And now I'm wearing the sandals again, but I'm breakingthem in more slowly so that doesn't happen again.
and the same thing, just removing the alcoholdidn't automatically fix everything, which of course had been my delusional expectation.
There's a lot of truth in this reading here for me.
Nora (33:44):
Yeah the self defeating behavior and repetitive, repetitious, just In an old rut, like no way to get out, just keep doing the same thing even though it ain't working.
No clue to how to get out, how to shift and change.
(34:05):
Oh, maybe I should try something different.
Maybe I try something different.
No, it just didn't occur to me, at all.
Spencer (34:16):
I was talking about that experience of hearing, I didn't cause, I couldn't control, I couldn't cure, and feeling lighter, feeling like this weight had come off of me, and then, the next thing is, if what I've been doing isn't working, what do I do now?
And that's what brought me to Al Anon.
I was like, I guess I'll give this thing a try.
(34:36):
It's an hour out of my life.
If I don't like it, I don't have to come back.
Nora (34:40):
Yeah,
Spencer (34:41):
I don't know what else to do.
Nora (34:43):
Beautiful gift of desperation,
Spencer (34:46):
Although, although.
So I'm leaving the treatment center.
I'm getting on the highway to drive home.
I call a friend who I knew was in AA.
And I asked him, Hey, you know anything about Al Anon?
Cause I didn't know who to call, right?
Like I didn't know, he was the only person I knewthat was connected to alcoholism, recovery, whatever.
(35:09):
I don't know that I even had the vocabulary at that point.
And he said, yeah, there's a really good meeting.
It's around the corner from my house.
It's tonight.
I could take you and introduce you to some people.
Would you like that?
And of course, knowing me as I do, I said,I'm going to have to think about that.
(35:30):
like I'm reaching out for help, help is offered.
I got think about it.
Okay.
Nora (35:35):
The resistance.
Spencer (35:38):
About 30 seconds later, I called him back and said, yes, please.
and that's how I got to my first meeting.
Nora (35:44):
Beautiful.
Spencer (35:46):
The last paragraph, I love the imagery in this last paragraph.
It is as if we are lost in a desert.
Not far away as a freshwater stream, but until now we havefailed to notice it because we have been chasing a mirage, an imaginary oasis that recedes whenever we approach.
Only when we finally stop, take stock of what ourefforts have produced, Or, I would say, not produced.
(36:11):
Okay, that's me being onto editorial here.
And admit that we have been pursuing an illusion.
Can we turn in a direction thatwill actually meet our needs?
Likewise, when we let go of the illusion of powerover alcohol and over other people, we move in a more positive, productive, and rewarding direction.
We move toward hope.
(36:34):
And man, if that last sentence wasn'tthere, this reading would be a real downer.
Nora (36:37):
Yeah, that hope is pretty important.
And I do love that imagery too.
The freshwater stream and just knowing that there is away to get the nourishment and the quench that we need.
That there are different ways.
And that, yeah, hope.
(37:00):
I like that we move in a more positive,productive, and rewarding direction.
We move toward hope.
Yeah, because I was lost in a desert and just clueless.
I mean, which way do you go if you're lost?
I generally go in circles or I go inthe opposite direction that Is home.
(37:22):
Yeah,
Spencer (37:24):
Yeah.
and the mirage of if I just say the right thing, if I justdo the right thing, she'll change, he'll change, whatever.
It's such a deceptively attractive mirage.
But it ain't real.
But it's just out of reach.
It's all, it's very clearly just out of reach.
(37:48):
I know, tomorrow, I'll get it right.
Never happened.
Never happened.
Nora (37:58):
yeah.
Yeah.
And it is a part of my compulsion and obsession.
Just like the drinkers drink or the druggersdrug or whatever the thing is that somebody else is compulsive about, obsessed about.
What a relief if I can finally let that go.
(38:20):
I need to remember, it's a everyday, every moment because I think.
What had happened was I got a littlecomplacent and resting on my laurels cause, Oh, I did the 12 steps and I'm all good now.
And, I just never really heard that part aboutit's a 24 hour program . You do the thing, the prayer, meditation every day, the 1, 2, 3 and the four, the 10, the whole thing basically.
(38:50):
And when I go to meetings, I listen andI use it as a prayer and a meditation.
Just the 12 steps to practice I guess releasing theillusions and the delusions and the confusion, the compulsion, the obsession, and trying to attach to something greater than myself and letting people live, let go and let God live and let live and just practice that acceptance.
(39:24):
I'm working towards getting to radical selfacceptance, radical acceptance of other people.
It's not like, Boom, it's done.
Oh, I got that one done.
Not at all.
I like to think if I did itconsistently, maybe it would be habitual.
I'm hoping at some point.
It's about consciousness and awareness.
(39:47):
And when I'm not using my brain and my consciousnessand my heart, then I revert to the old ways.
The imaginary oasis, the illusion that, oh, I'mgoing to just say this one thing, yesterday?
Or the day before, I found a vape in mydaughter's purse and I just threw it out.
(40:12):
That was a violation.
so I thought I was a little furtheralong, but I'm not, apparently.
Spencer (40:18):
in my experience, after over 20 years in the program, the new behaviors are more likely to happen first, but they don't always, I have said it took me 40 something years to get here.
(40:42):
40 something years of developing my character,what did you say, character challenges.
Nora (40:49):
yeah, and default.
Spencer (40:52):
another person I talked to recently talked about character defenses.
I have been developing and practicingthose for 40, we'll say 45 years.
I can't do the math.
it was more than 45 years, whatever.
I don't know, maybe the first few years don't countbecause I wasn't like conscious or whatever, depending what you believe about the consciousness of babies.
(41:14):
but if it took me 45 years to get here, is it goingto take me like 45 years to change everything.
It might.
Okay.
I'm only halfway there and probablyby the time I get there, I'll be dead.
So, you know, just keep coming.
Just keep coming back.
Nora (41:32):
want to be able to grant myself more grace and gentleness and not judge.
Judgment is not helpful.
Spencer (41:42):
yeah.
Nora (41:42):
It's hurtful,
harsh criticism, not terrific.
Spencer (41:48):
being able to say, Oh, I'm human.
Nora (41:52):
Welcome to the human race.
It's nice.
It's a pretty
good community in general.
Spencer (41:58):
I often ask this question , what would you say to yourself when you were first coming into recovery?
, Nora: I'd say just keep doing it.
Keep coming back.
Trust.
I think I could have focused more on, ontrust , but I think I did it pretty good.
(42:19):
I, my sponsor really helped me, getthe higher power piece in there.
I know we're not talking about step two, but, it's really good that step two comes right after step one, because step one, I'm saying I can't do it and step two says there is help if you want to accept it.
(42:43):
Steps two and three together,
Nora (42:45):
1, 2, and 3, I would
say.
yeah.
I think they really go together like peanutbutter and jelly, or arugula and avocado toast.
Spencer (42:58):
Okay.
Okay.
I would not have gone there, but that's fun.
Thank you.
thank you for that.
After a short break, we'll continue withOur Lives in Recovery, where we talk about how recovery is working in our daily lives.
I asked you to pick some music.
(43:19):
Talk about the first one that you picked, which all themusic will be available on the website at therecovery.
show slash 413.
Nora (43:29):
Yeah, I picked Van Morrison's, Go Into the Mystery, not Into the Mystic.
Sounds similar, but, this, Let gointo the mystery, let yourself go.
You've got to open up your heart.
Yeah, that's all I know.
Trust what I say and do what you're told.
(43:50):
A baby with all your dirt will turn into gold.
It's letting go and opening up.
It's just what it's saying it right there.
And trusting that's the dirt will turnto gold because there's a lot of dirt.
When you open up your heart, you get everything you need.
(44:13):
There's a way and a mystic road.
You've got to have some faith.
Yeah.
To carry on.
It's.
Where I want to go, it's mysterious to step one.
I mean, starting this whole programis like, what the heck is this
It says, let go into the mystery.
Let yourself go.
There's no other place to be, baby.
This, I know you've got to dance and singand be alive in the mystery and be joyous and give thanks and let yourself go.
(44:41):
I think the joyous might come later and the thanks, maybe.
It's mysterious.
It's what is this stuff?
And.
It's scary, too, actually, because you are lettinggo of this tight grip on the illusions and delusions.
I love Van Morrison.
Spencer (45:09):
In this section of the podcast, we talk about our lives in recovery.
How have we experienced recovery recently?
Yesterday was in my meeting where we're currently.
Going through the traditions, we're using the AlAnon book, Reaching for Personal Freedom, which asks us to reflect on how the steps, traditions, and concepts connect to our personal lives rather than, in the context of Al Anon with the traditions.
(45:40):
We were looking at tradition.
Eight, which is about, being non professionalin Al Anon, but also being able to hire special workers, for, the service work, and so on.
The questions that we were looking at yesterday morning wereall about, when do we reach out for help when do we realize that we're not able to do something ourselves and that we need to get help from somebody, I reflected on how when I was younger, I felt like I had to do everything myself.
(46:17):
I think I was brought up in thatway that you do things yourself.
I'm sure when I was little, I thought my fathercould do everything and I wanted to be like him.
and as I've gotten older and as he got olderalso, I think, I have come to understand that there are some things that I'm good at.
There are some things that are mine to doand there are some things that it's really better for me to have somebody else do it.
(46:43):
Part of that comes with like growing up and getting a goodjob and having money to pay people to do some other things.
but there's also the.
emotional, spiritual aspect of lettinggo of the need to do it all myself.
So that was yesterday, and those questions helpedme to reflect on how that has changed in my life and how that's continuing to change in my life as I get older, and it's just maybe not physically possible for me to do some things that I used to do.
(47:15):
this morning, today's Sunday, as we're recordingthis morning I was at church and in this service we were recognizing the youth who were seniors and were thus, the word we use is bridging from youthhood, is that a word, to adulthood.
(47:37):
they're moving out of being youth in thecommunity to being young adults in the community.
They're moving into.
They're not moving out of.
They're moving into.
They're moving between.
I've been working with our high school age youth over thelast maybe decade and a half, that has been a lot of my focus of how I'm providing service in, in that community.
(47:59):
So.
It's a moving thing for me to seethese young people becoming adults.
I mean, you know, it's not like they'reinstantaneously adults, you know that.
And then, the lead advisor, gave a little talk and Shesaid, look, even though you're moving forward in your lives, you may be going away to college or whatever you're doing.
(48:22):
we're still here and we're always here to help you.
And you should know that asking for help issomething that sometimes you have to do it.
She said it a lot better than I'msaying it right now, honest to God.
and I thought, yeah, I have to learn how to ask for help.
did I ask for help when I was 18?
(48:42):
I asked my parents to pay for college, I guessthat's, but not like in the important things, right?
The things that were important tome, like I had to do them myself.
So I don't know.
Those two things came together in this theme of.
It's okay to ask for help, to get help for those thingsthat I'm not able to do by myself, for whatever reason.
(49:05):
that's the recovery message in mylife in the last, last few days.
Anyway, I think I'll stop with that.
Nora (49:11):
Yeah, that's great.
Actually, it's funny.
I also have been thinking about the eighth tradition,which I always was amused by because, it says, Al Anon 12 step work should remain forever non professional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
(49:33):
And I just thought it was funny because I alwaysthought I could be more professional, and now you're telling me maybe don't be professional.
And just, I thought it was really funnyand cool, but it makes a lot of sense.
I have recently.
(49:54):
Somebody to help me, to assist me.
I'm traveling right now and I needed somebody to, towatch the place and take care of stuff and start actually an inventory of some of my work, not 12 step inventory.
and so that's good.
Maybe symbolic also.
and I think this is about trust and thatis my main, there's about 20 main things, but trust, and frog, full reliance on God.
Spencer (50:26):
I haven't heard that one.
Nora (50:27):
oh, you haven't?
Yeah, I love that one.
I have it on a bracelet to remind me.
Frog, full reliance on God.
it's hard to remember for me a lot,it's a way for me to shift my thinking.
And to get out of my defaults, my characterchallenges, my defenses, old habits die hard.
(50:52):
And unless I'm fastidious and consistent andcommitted to doing this, I default back and that's honesty, that's part of this first step really.
And I feel like I am on my first step now again.
just admitting and being honest.
(51:16):
The default is that my life is unmanageable I getto take actions to make it possibly a little bit more manageable by not trying to control the uncontrollable, not trying to tell other people what to do and such.
I've been sharing and sharing it.
I meet my home group meeting onTuesday nights out of New York.
(51:41):
Still going a bunch of meetings and just workingto clear out and clean out my place a bit because I've been a little bit of a pack rat and I'm eager to have the spiritual cleansing.
That goes with a physical cleansing.
(52:03):
So I see that as part of my program.
I think it's all in integral andintegrated and of one with each other.
I think I've been pretty good about being generally, I'mafraid to say this, but honest in admitting when I'm wrong.
if Somebody says, Oh, you did this, then I admit it.
(52:27):
But the key is for me to have and develop thecalm and the connection to a higher power to not need to make amends and to be corrected by others.
That would be cool.
That would be nice.
I'm looking forward to that.
(52:50):
Yeah.
Spencer (52:51):
Okay.
Looking forward in the podcast, as I said,I'm starting this series on the steps.
I intend to finish this series on the steps.
So I'll be looking for people to join me like Noradid today to first steps, two, three, four, et cetera.
I do want to try to do them in order, just because.
(53:13):
So that's coming up and we, as usual, wewelcome your thoughts, your questions.
You can join our conversation here.
You can leave a voicemail or send us anemail with your feedback or your questions.
And Nora, how can people send us feedback?
Nora (53:29):
You can send a voice memo or email to feedback at therecovery.
show.
Or, if you prefer, you can call andleave us a voicemail at 734-707-8795
(53:50):
734 707 8795.
You can also use the voicemail button on thewebsite to join the conversation from your computer.
We'd love to hear from you, share your experience, strength,and hope, or your questions about today's topic of step one, or any of our upcoming topics, including more steps.
(54:16):
If you have a topic you'd liketo talk to us about, let us know.
If you would like advance notice for some of our topicsso that you can contribute to that topic, you can sign up for our mailing list by sending an email to feedback.
at the recovery.
show.
Email in the subject line to make it easier to spot.
Spencer (54:40):
And our website is therecovery.
show.
We have all the information about the showthere, which mostly is notes for each episode.
Those will include links to the books or other literaturethat we read from, videos for the music, and there's also some links to other Recovery podcasts and websites.
(55:00):
Your next song here is
Nora (55:05):
it's the flaming lips it's called feeling yourself disintegrate.
I'm not sure if that's the actual title,love in our life is just too valuable.
Oh, to feel for even a second without it,but life without death is just impossible.
It's makes me think of all right, I don't know how tosay it, but the idea of how death and the awareness of death can make us live our own life, our life in the present more fully and better and with appreciation and gratitude and then it ends with, feeling yourself disintegrate, which it repeats it eight times.
(55:54):
It's kind of, I'm looking for a spiritualdeath, to become what I could become.
And Admitting that I'm powerless and mylife has become unmanageable is a new way of living, of awakening to the truth.
(56:18):
And yeah, there's some cognitive dissonanceand, kind of feeling in limbo and afraid, not knowing what the heck is going to happen.
but, it's releasing.
releasing fear the promise of redemptionbeing able to get the spiritual nourishment and transformation that I'm looking for.
(56:49):
Feel the fear and do it anyway.
free fall into trust.
Spencer (57:02):
We got a couple of voicemails and an email from you this week.
we got a voicemail from Anita,
Anita (57:10):
Hello, Spencer.
This is Anita from Arkansas, Northwest Arkansas.
I, have been listening to your show for quite awhile, and literally just called in for the first time after, many nudges from my higher power.
I'm currently listening to, the Genevieve, Together WeCan Make It episode from August 29th, 2019, which I know is an older episode because I've listened to others, and you've just gotten your dog, and we've been through the
(57:38):
experience of your dog, and through the, sorrowful deathof your parents, and I'm so sorry about that and just wanted to I want to give you my condolences and love.
but I wanted to also just tell youhow amazing I think a higher power is.
I was going on a walk with my dogs this morningand, my brother whom I have a strained relationship with called to tell me that our cousin, our second cousin I guess, died of an overdose yesterday.
(58:12):
it was a tragedy.
She was, just barely 30 years old, and, of course, thefamily, that lives in another state, I just can't even, there's so much I want to say, but, But just that.
And I visited with him and visitedwith some other family members.
but as I do when I walk my dogs was also turnedon the Recovery Show podcast and just how so Remarkable, it was just random selection.
(58:38):
This was the episode.
And, then I went to my Al Anon meeting,which is also my Saturday event.
And, how it too, the subject of, Tragedy andloss and recovery and strength and hope that we get within this program how it just rang true.
(58:58):
I just really appreciate you, as many people do,as I hear, throughout listening to this program.
It is such a blessing to, Be able to pull it up anytime,any day, any section, be able to rewind, be able to cry through, laugh through, and I just encourage and thank all of your contributors They have been on there, Genevieve and, the other people that have co hosted with you.
(59:29):
I just really appreciate you guysfrom the very bottom of my heart.
I appreciate you being there to be atool for the wonderful God that I have.
Spencer (59:38):
Thank you, Anita, for sharing that experience of support from your higher power.
it is amazing how that synchronicityworks sometimes, isn't it?
Thanks for the kind words.
Mary writes, Hi, my name is Mary.
I have 37 years in recovery andI'm going through retirement.
(59:58):
I love hearing your journey.
I would love to do a show on how recoveryis helping in the challenge of retirement.
It isn't exactly what I thought it was going to be.
A couple of exclamation points there.
I wrote back to Mary and said, Yes, please.
I'd Love to do an episode with you.
hopefully we'll get to hear, what isn't exactly what shethought, and how recovery is helping her during retirement.
(01:00:23):
And, we'll probably explore a littlebit of, what's going on with me too.
we have a voicemail from Pat,
Pat (01:00:29):
Hi Spencer, this is Pat from the West Coast.
you had someone call in and ask about workingthe Blueprint for Progress, step four.
It's worth noting there are two differentprint, Blueprint for Progresses.
There's this very small pamphlet which is the original one.
And I would encourage the person not to usethat one, but to use the larger format one, it's about 8 by 11, with a spiral binder.
(01:00:56):
the other thing is, I've worked Step 4 many times withboth sponsees and myself using the Blueprint for Progress.
And I found that I would not go frontto back with that particular book.
what worked best for, us was to identify those issuesthat popped up as being the most problematic for me.
(01:01:20):
The very first tip I worked in there was anger.
And so that was where we went was tothe area that I could already identify.
At the beginning of my Step 4 process as being aroadblock to my serenity and preventing me from becoming the person and being the person that I wanted to be.
(01:01:40):
I hope that's helpful feedback.
I do really like that particular workbook.
the other one, Oh, I can't remember.
It's the green one with the trees on the front.
It's also excellent.
but I think it is, really great to usefor someone who's already done STEP 4, at least once maybe with a different format.
(01:02:00):
Or has been in the program for quite a while.
There you go.
Thanks, and enjoy your, continueto enjoy your, your retirement.
That's so exciting, and I appreciate that you're continuingto work and produce broadcasts while you're retired.
Thank you so much for your service, Spencer.
Okay, bye bye.
Everybody have a good summer.
Spencer (01:02:20):
Thank you, Pat, for sharing that experience.
I will say when I did the blueprint, I went straightthrough from front to back, but you're right, that might not be the best way for everybody.
the green book with the tree on the frontis called Reaching for Personal Freedom.
it's a good workbook for studying the stepsand also the traditions and the concepts.
(01:02:41):
I don't think I would use it for step four though.
it's not as searching certainly as theblueprint, which may be a little too searching.
the other book that I've used and I've mentioned this anumber of times is the TAN book called Paths to Recovery, which has Readings, and then questions for each step.
And I've used that several times myself.
(01:03:04):
That's it for feedback this week.
Nora, I really want to thank you again for, exploring stepone with me today, I really enjoyed this conversation.
Thanks.
Nora (01:03:16):
was my pleasure.
It was my honor and great, experience.
Thank you.
Spencer (01:03:25):
And you picked one more song.
What is it?
Nora (01:03:27):
You Ain't Alone by Alabama Shakes,
The person who is singing and speaking this songshifts, it plays between maybe a lover, a friend to maybe a higher power is how I was taking it.
It speaks about being scared, to tell someonehow you feel, thinking about what other people think, which of course, if I'm thinking about.
(01:03:55):
What other people think I'm not in my own mind.
I'm out of my mind.
So, are you scared to wear your heart out on your sleeve?
Cry if you're gonna cry.
It's important to cry.
this is a release and a transformation andcry if you're gonna cry, come on, cry with me.
(01:04:19):
Cry if you're gonna cry, come on, oh cry with me.
you ain't alone, just let me be your ticket home.
you ain't alone, just let me be your ticket home.
Is just helping.
To go to that place, to just really feel and be honest,acknowledge what has been going on, acknowledge the disease.
(01:04:45):
And the ticket home is, is that I sayredemption again, it's essential, this, not.
Feeling alone, of course, in our program.
we, you can't, I can't do it alone.
I use the phone.
it's essential.
Having a sponsor, making program calls, reaching out,
Spencer (01:05:15):
Thank you for listening, and please keep coming back.
Whatever your problems, there arethose among us who have had them, too.
If we did not talk about a problem you arefacing today, feel free to contact us so we can talk about it in a future episode.
May understanding, love, and peacegrow in you one day at a time.
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