Stephen King is the founder, CEO and Head Installer of the Australian Insulation Foundation of WA (AIFWA). While working in his insulation business, Stephen found social housing tenants were desperately in need of insulation, but had no means of getting it. So he set up a charity, added a little premium to his main service, and provided housing insulation for social housing tenants free of charge.
One such resident is Maria Novac – a single mum with a family who unexpectedly found herself in need of social housing, and landed in a neglected hot box. Maria can’t thank Stephen enough for the difference it’s made to their lives. And they’re not alone. And while the flow on benefits are enormous, from health to climate to education and more, perhaps the greatest benefit is what it shows is possible if government were to back in a plan to retrofit all 45,000 social houses in WA in this way. Maria was kind enough to host Stephen and I at her place for this conversation.
Note: the last reference to AIFWA online that I can find is in 2023, and the website is currently not live. This episode is still aired here due the value of this particular story, the at least seven years of work the non-profit did, and the successful model it demonstrates.
This episode was originally released as the sixth of a series of nine episodes I produced a few years ago for the Clean State podcast, dedicated to regenerative transitions in my home state of WA. Sadly, the podcast and its host non-profit are no more. But the series of episodes featured such brilliant guests and stories, that are still so very relevant, and not just to WA, so we resolved to re-release them here.
To hear the rest of the Clean State series, and more stories of regeneration from around WA, Australia and the world, follow The RegenNarration wherever podcasts are found, or on the website.
You can access the Clean State Plan, and its brilliantly formatted Summary, towards the bottom of the episode web page below (where you can also find a five-minute bonus episode of previously unreleased material from this conversation, if you didn't catch it in your podcast feed).
And for more from behind the scenes, become a supporting listener via the links below.
Recorded November 2020.
Title slide: Stephen King (supplied).
With thanks to the CCWA, ausp
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephen (00:00):
We had to try and find a way to help social housing
tenants and then one night itwas very late it just popped
into my head why don't I just,you know, for the insulation I
install for homeowners, whydon't I just say $1 per square
metre, t funds free insulationfor social housing?
And remarkably, it worked.
AJ (00:25):
G'day and welcome to the Clean State WA podcast.
My name's Anthony James fromThe RegenNarration podcast, on
board with you here for thisspecial series dedicated to our
home state of Western Australiaand the newly released Clean
State Jobs Plan.
Stephen (00:41):
I'm Stephen King from Australian Installation
Foundation.
AJ (00:45):
Stephen's the founder, c and head installer of the
Australian Insulation Foundationof WA.
While working in his insulationbusiness, Stephen found social
housing tenants were desperatelyin need of insulation but had
no means of getting it.
So he set up a charity, added alittle premium to his main
(01:06):
service and provided housinginsulation for social housing
tenants free of charge.
One such resident is MariaNovac, a single mum with a
family who unexpectedly foundherself in need of social
housing and landed in aneglected hotbox.
Maria can't thank Stephenenough for the difference it's
(01:26):
made to their lives, and they'renot alone.
And while the flow-on benefitsare enormous from health to
climate and education and moreperhaps the greatest benefit is
what it shows is possible ifgovernment were to back in a
plan to retrofit all 45,000social houses in WA in this way.
Maria was kind enough to hostStephen and I at her beautifully
(01:49):
cool place for thisconversation and where we are
now.
Stephen, it's a place that'sbeen central to your journey in
many respects and a realhighlight of your journey.
I think you even called it yourgreatest achievement at one
stage, can you?
Stephen (02:03):
describe where we are and why?
It actually started off.
My small business, AusKingInstallation, was just starting
out and there was quite a bigproblem with the installations
industry at that point,especially with the debacle of
Kevin Rudd and Peter Garrett andtheir installation scheme and
the media.
That gave installation a bit ofa stigma.
(02:24):
Yeah, so important still veryimportant and I don't think the
um.
Everybody was just going mad.
Using electricity especially,new air cons were coming out in
the market.
It seemed just to changepeople's theories from instead
of getting installation, let'sjust get a bigger air con, and
that made it very difficult forus.
But I was actually gettingquite a lot of phone calls from
(02:46):
social housing tenantsrequesting insulation and that
sort of made me think.
And so what's going on here?
How is this happening?
Why are these tenants callingme?
Why isn't the Department ofHousing or social housing
providing such basic needs tothese tenants and why are they
(03:08):
still?
AJ (03:08):
calling me.
Yeah, you might have assumed itwas covered.
Their needs were covered.
Stephen (03:12):
Yeah, I just assumed that all social housing
properties provided the needsfor their tenants.
Unfortunately, it wasn't thecase, and once I started digging
around finding out why this wasthe case, I was actually quite
alarmed of the neglect thatsocial housing tenants were
having to deal with such simpleand basic needs of thermal
(03:36):
insulation on its own.
AJ (03:38):
So what led you to the house we're in right now.
Stephen (03:42):
Well, Mary actually contacted us through our online
ad on gumtree simple as that,yeah, simple as that in the
beginning we had to try and finda way to help social housing
tenants and and then one nightit was very late.
Uh, it just popped into my headwhy don't I just, you know, for
(04:05):
the insulation I install forhomeowners, why don't I just say
$1 per square metre, get fundsfree insulation for social
housing?
And remarkably, it worked andit brought in a lot of business
for the foundation.
It improved my financial statusas well.
I was actually able to, youknow, create an income for
(04:26):
myself, because it's super hard.
In the beginning, I mean, I wason, I was on dire straits
because there was just no workcoming in.
So you found people respondedwhen you said with a portion of
what you pay me for puttinginsulation in, I'm going to help
other people yeah, it helps andand I suppose it would do I
mean, if you, if you have achoice of two companies or other
(04:48):
companies that haven't got a acaring point about their
business, how long before youended up at maria's house had
you landed on this idea andstarted to get that fund coming
in uh, about six months.
six months, yeah, it wasn't thatlong at all, so you hadn't done
?
AJ (05:04):
had you done a few social houses before you got to Maria
Three, Three?
This was early days.
Stephen (05:09):
Yeah, early days, and I wasn't quite sure how we
managed to get past theDepartment of Housing and Social
Housing properties.
I just didn't think they wouldallow us, but they did Well.
They had no choice because itwas up to the tenant to pay for
their own installation.
Is that right?
Yeah, so that's how we entered,and if it wasn't for that
(05:30):
clause, we wouldn't have thisopportunity, because I believe
that a lot of social housingproperties, including Department
of Housing, have their owncontractors.
AJ (05:42):
Well, that's what I'd assume as well.
So that's interesting thattenants don't get provided for
in that way, or at least weren't.
But they've got the freedom tochoose how they get it, which
probably doesn't help many ofthem.
Stephen (05:53):
But here's where you step in.
AJ (05:54):
Yeah, so let's talk a bit about why it matters so much.
Stephen (06:00):
Oh, it's incredible.
Insulation is such a simplething to as an addition to a
household to make all thedifference.
Out of all your building fabric, insulation is the thing that
really makes the difference.
You can have a multi-milliondollar home, but if it's got no
insulation then it's unbearableto live in.
AJ (06:19):
Or you'll be busting a gasket on aircon and heating.
Stephen (06:22):
And it's noise pollution.
If you've got an aircon on allday, sort of that buzz in your
ear would have an effect on howyou sleep at night.
Yeah, the white noise, totallythe white noise.
No, it's just a no-brainer.
AJ (06:31):
Yeah, and then, particularly for the social housing stock,
where you have often morevulnerable people, the benefits
are compounded.
Same with, obviously, climatebenefits, with less emissions
and so forth.
But you found even more thanthat.
Stephen (06:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think one of the majorimpacts that we've had on
people's lives is just comfortwithin their own home.
It's less stress, less mentalstress, less physical stress.
It makes them healthier.
Better air quality in the homeby removing the old blow-in
insulation and reduction ofmould.
(07:06):
Insulation has solved a lot ofour clients' mould issues
because when you've got a fan onand if that fan isn't vented
correctly into the air beyondthe roof, then that moisture
stays in the roof itself and alot of the properties that we've
gone to that we've insulated alot of their vents, a lot of
(07:29):
their fans are not ventedcorrectly.
It's super nasty, superdangerous very bad for your
health.
AJ (07:34):
Yes, and it's so easily rectified by having a good
ventilation, correctly.
Stephen (07:36):
It's super nasty, super dangerous, very bad for your
health.
And it's so easily rectified byhaving a good ventilation and
insulation.
AJ (07:42):
Insulation stops the condensation and the buildup of
heat on top of the ceiling andthat's really indicative of the
health benefits across the boardthat then feed back into
employment and educationprospects and abilities to
access a life in society that'sfulfilling and contributes.
That's great yeah.
(08:03):
Tell us about what you've seenon that front.
How does that manifest itself?
Stephen (08:07):
It takes away the bad issues.
It takes away the thoughtprocess of my house is hot, I've
got mould, my air quality ispoor because I've got dust
coming through the vent.
So you no longer think aboutthese issues.
And if you no longer thinkabout these negative issues,
(08:28):
then a bit of positivity stayswith you.
It's just something you don'thave to worry about anymore and
feel stigmatised potentially andworry about anymore and feel
stigmatized and and the factthat now you're living with
equality and not only thequality, but the fact that you
know that every time you don'thave to turn on a heater or an
(08:49):
air con, you're doing somethingfor the environment and you're
reducing reducing your ownexpenditure with the heating and
cooling costs, and in somecases it just outright saves
lives.
Basically?
Yes, as a matter of fact itdoes Interesting.
Last week we were insulating aproperty in Chute Hill and the
(09:09):
lady she's got a neighbour.
He's 94.
And last year when we had thosethose 40 degree days, the three
days it was consecutive, on thethird day she realised that she
hasn't spoken to her neighbourin those three days and she went
over there and he was on thefloor laying down and his body
(09:30):
had reached a temperature beyondthat should be ever experienced
and he was hospitalized for acouple of weeks and he lived,
but we know many othersituations where it's worse than
that they actually.
Yeah, absolutely they don't makeit.
No and and insulation, simpleit's so.
It's such a no-brainer.
It makes all the difference.
It will reduce hospital visits,it will improve health, it will
(09:53):
improve the environment and itwill improve the hip pocket.
So it will improve health, itwill improve the environment and
it will improve the hip pocket.
So we'll put more money backinto the community and that
allows people to buy better food, you know, excursions, better
clothing and more clothing, andit just goes on and on and on
the benefits of such a simplething.
I mean the four to six hourstakes us to do the job and then
life's improved.
AJ (10:14):
I'm glad you mentioned hospital incursions because
there's actually a story out ofthe states right now this
appeared on the reasons to becheerful news site out of the
states that started up maybelast year I think a story about
hospitals funding housingretrofits.
Wow, yes, fantastic.
Rather than more facilities inthe hospital, because they
(10:37):
realize that's where the healthbegins, and the benefits have
indeed included more educationoutcomes, more employment
outcomes, less crime, lesshospital incursions, especially
for kids, and a bunch of otherflow-on benefits from that.
It just goes to show what aterrific model that is the
hospital itself is injectingthat funding it's fantastic,
(11:00):
fantastic and you know when youthink about it.
Stephen (11:02):
For the cost of a new hospital or an upgrade of a new
hospital to to accommodate morevisits will probably pay for the
installation for all socialhousing.
You know, if it's going to costthem a couple of hundred
million dollars to upgrade ahospital to accommodate the
amount of people coming throughtheir doors, if they use that
money to provide that freeinstallation for social housing
(11:25):
or to pay for the cost of thatsocial housing, then that's a
large percentage of people nothaving to come through the door
because they're a lot healthier.
AJ (11:34):
In WA we're talking about about 45,000 families slash
households that are socialhousing stock, a lot of it in
need, 80%.
Stephen (11:45):
Yeah, there you go 80% are uninsulated or they were
insulated prior to 2012, andthat means their energy rating
would not meet the currentstandards today.
AJ (11:57):
There you go.
So your vision then andcertainly Clean State is to have
every one of those retrofitted,and not just with insulation
necessarily, for that matter,other passive things like double
glazed windows and so forth,draft proofing, et cetera.
Stephen (12:12):
Double glazing windows on high traffic areas, solar
panels on all their roofs too,and including batteries, so the
house becomes self-sufficientInstallation, of course, and
also ridding of gas out ofsocial housing properties, so we
don't need gas at all in socialhousing properties.
There are far better, efficientways of cooking.
Induction stovetops are amazingTo heat up two litres of water
(12:36):
with gas.
You're looking at six to eightminutes With induction less than
a minute.
AJ (12:40):
Yeah, and this again is as so many of these interventions
are they're low cost to startthem, as you found, but they're
ultimately no cost or net gainby far.
What would be required then fora government to sort of get
this going, but in the way thatultimately would be a budget
(13:03):
positive type of scenario?
Stephen (13:05):
So in Australia there aren't many ways to offset your
carbon footprint, but there's somany other ways you can reduce
carbon footprint.
Insulation is a massive one.
As I mentioned before, 1.8tonne from each household is
reduced from the reduction ofheating and cooling costs In a
year, in a year per year, and aswell as saving of $600.
(13:28):
So if you've got 50,000 houses,social housing, properties, if
every one of them was insulatedand the savings are 1.8 tons per
year, then you're looking at90,000 tons per year of
reduction of co2 and that'sastonishing considering that our
co2 levels for housing sits at11% of our total.
(13:52):
Yeah, so it's significant.
It's significant and it wouldnearly cancel itself out on the
top-end scale.
But obviously, you know, peopleare still going to use their
heaters, people are still goingto use their air con, obviously
for the extremities of thetemperatures, but the majority
of those costs will reducebecause, like Maria she said she
(14:15):
was planning on getting an aircon, but now she doesn't have to
.
She can put up with those threeor four day really hot days and
otherwise put on a jumper,which is very significant
because she's saved herself afew thousand dollars not having
to install the air con.
And the fact is that that moneycan go to better use.
(14:36):
So you've done about what?
20 of these now?
Yeah, 21.
We did our 21st propertyyesterday and we've got one
booked in for next Wednesday.
AJ (14:48):
Just to be clear, they don't pay at all, not a single cent.
Maria finds you on Gumtree, yourock up and say, yep, I can
take care of this.
Stephen (14:56):
Yep, that's what we do.
We booked Maria in, jumped upon the roof and then we
installed it with R4installation earth wool, knuff,
earth wool.
So that's a glass.
Yes, it's made from recycledbottle glass Recycled bottle
glass yeah.
Over 90% of it.
It's a phenomenal product.
The amazing part about it isits flexibility.
(15:19):
You would think glass is notflexible, but it's crazy how
flexible these bats are.
I mean, they're very durable.
There's no shards of glass init, there's nothing.
It's just like a pillow.
AJ (15:35):
That is fascinating.
Stephen (15:36):
Yeah.
AJ (15:36):
And that makes me think, then, because you know, on top
of all this and certainly partof Clean State's proposal is
that you add a bit moreinvestment to then have solar or
whatever's appropriate on thishousing stock as well.
And that makes me think of thedramatic need, if we're going to
roll out renewables as fast aswe need to, to be able to have
(16:00):
circularity in that system, tobe able to bring back a lot of
the resources at end of life ofthose panels, etc.
And I wonder then, with theglass in solar panels, if that
opens up opportunities to haveit come back into insulation,
let alone other solar panelsabsolutely.
Stephen (16:15):
Huh.
I mean, we're in a recyclableworld now and there's no reason
why we can't recycle everything.
Matter of fact, what are wedoing producing stuff if it
can't be recycled?
AJ (16:25):
yeah, there's so much in that isn't there to be
absolutely able to take apartthe materials.
Stephen (16:29):
Yeah, to process and the fact that the insulation, uh
is, is recyclable.
You could, it's just glass, sosurely you can melt that down
and put it back through yourprocess so eventually we can get
to the point where we're in areal need to do any mining, to
do any fracking.
Everything can be reused andmoving forward without having to
(16:51):
destroy our planet any furtherthan what we have.
AJ (16:54):
Yes, recycling is the new mining.
An old mate of mine used tocall that conservation mining.
Stephen (16:59):
I like that Just as a metaphor.
AJ (17:00):
Yeah, absolutely I like that , so you've done 22.
We need how many 50,000?
Stephen (17:06):
done 000 done 50 000 done objective 10 years,
objective 10 years.
AJ (17:10):
So that's to say, I mean I'm struck by, on the one hand,
you've just gone and done thislike other people can just go
and do stuff like this everybodycan you just get up and do it.
Stephen (17:20):
You don't look to somebody else to do it, you do
it yourself.
And if you can't do it yourself, then find like somebody else
to do it.
You do it yourself.
And if you can't do it yourself, then find like-minded people
to help you with your journey.
This is what we've done andI've had to bring in.
I've had to reach out forpeople to come and help me, and
they have.
That's what it's all about.
You know, even if you spendwhatever time you can to help an
(17:43):
organisation or to help aperson move slightly forward to
reach their goals and theirdreams and ambitions and
obviously if it improvespeople's lives, then just do it
and to get to scale.
AJ (17:58):
having said that, and the empowering bit of just getting
on with it, there's stuff thatgovernment's going to be able to
do here to facilitate the scaleand the speed that we're after.
What do we need from governmentor other, even private,
mechanisms?
Stephen (18:15):
I think the governments need to really look forward,
look towards finding out howmajor business can reduce their
carbon footprint and I believewe have a national carbon offset
, I suppose, mechanism, but Ifeel that the mechanism is very,
very difficult.
(18:36):
We struggle to try and get somesort of accreditation for our
carbon credits that we'reproducing from the free
installation that we install.
Really, you're struggling likewe know that there is a major
carbon reduction footprint ininsulation and to try and get
certification on our carboncredits we have to go
(18:59):
international to gold standardsto get that.
But we're not out there to tryand sell credits to anybody else
in the world.
We want to sell our creditslocally I mean really local,
like wa, yeah, so I would liketo see uh west australian
government put a panel togetherto help organizations like me,
uh, like us to to gainaccreditations for our credits,
(19:22):
and all it takes is is to bringthe scientists involved.
There was a study done in innew zealand it's called warm up
new zealand and they did.
They went and insulated everysocial housing property in new
zealand.
They've done it, they've doneit and they've done their
reports and there is a massivecarbon saving with the
installation, not just from thereduction of heating and cooling
(19:45):
costs, but also less hospitalvisits.
AJ (19:48):
The same thing.
Stephen (19:55):
Yeah, and every component of that process going
to hospital carries a majorcarbon footprint.
So I think I would like to see,if we ask to get our carbon
accreditation, then governmentsand corporates should open their
arms and say, yeah, we can getthis passed, it just needs you
know, certification.
It should be just a no-brainer.
Yeah, ok, look, they'rereducing, they've found a way to
(20:17):
reduce carbon footprint.
Let's help them work outexactly how much of a carbon
footprint they're reducing andthen give them a certificate so
they can sell their carboncredits.
AJ (20:26):
So you can't keep up with the current demand right now.
Stephen (20:30):
You're pushed to the hilt, I'm pushed to the hilt, so
you really need other people tocome in and do this work.
AJ (20:35):
There's opportunity abounding here.
Stephen (20:37):
We're struggling to get employees.
It's just me and my off-sider,terrell.
You know I'm pushing 50.
I can see you know I'm pushing50 I consume myself going for
another five, at least anotherfive years in the roof I prefer
not to be in the roof.
I prefer to give other youngpeople opportunities to gain
employment and and then me stepout of the roof so I can focus
on getting more people in theroof and more and providing more
(20:59):
jobs.
And well, we need to.
To achieve the 10 years thatall social housing done in 10
years, we need to.
We need to do 5 000 a year.
And if we need to do 5 the 10years that all social housing
done in 10 years we need to.
We need to do 5 000 a year.
And if we need to do 5 000 ayear.
That's.
You know, that's quite a lot.
AJ (21:12):
So much scope there it's such a dovetailing of recovery
from covert housing needs,climate related needs, health
benefits, yeah, I think cleanstate actually are talking about
a three-year even time spanrather than 10 for some of this
stuff Ambitious, but not with amassive price tag, particularly
when you do consider the looparound benefits that ultimately
(21:34):
feed that funding back.
But I want to actually go outwith reference to a sort of a
broader vision.
I suppose I introduced thepodcast series with this.
It's the idea that we wouldhouse and employ everyone.
Podcast series with this.
It's the idea that we wouldhouse and employ everyone.
Like why wouldn't you have thatas a basic bedrock of success
of a society, and all the morein the context of the
transitions we need?
And this seems to be such a bigpart of it then, particularly
(21:58):
when you do marry it up with theother big proposal, which is to
house every person that doesn'teven have a house.
So the 14 000 people on thepublic housing waiting list,
right?
Stephen (22:11):
now in wa.
AJ (22:12):
So if we build those 15 000 homes in three years as well and
that brings to mind then whatthe victorian government just
announced a five billion dollarfund to basically do something
akin to that 12,000 houses,three or four years and it's
very similar to what CleanSlater are proposing here you
just get excited then when youmarry that with transit centre
(22:35):
planning and the renewableenergy rollout and the passive
stuff that you're involved in,that there's a holistic vision
here that could achieve thatultimate mark of success of a
society absolutely.
Stephen (22:48):
We've got enough people here to do it.
We've just got to encouragethem.
We've just got to give them thereason why it's so important to
to be our chief.
Such a thing if you announce aband coming over and they're a
big band, probably you know U2.
And within three months they'reable to gather 100,000 people
(23:11):
into one place, and that's justfor one band.
How hard would it be to createthe same sort of hype?
But get people into buildingthese places.
Get young people into theworkforce, even if they just did
it for a year.
Train them up for three months.
Get them working in a year tohelp out construct and get these
(23:35):
houses built.
Then after that year they cango off back to studies or it
will give them a trade as wellif they want to continue on with
the trade, but just lifeexperience.
So when they go to build theirown house, they've got knowledge
.
It's definitely doable.
It's no problem trying to bringthe people together.
It's the fact that how do we doit and what encouragement are
(23:58):
we giving these young people?
AJ (23:59):
Terrific, Stephen.
It's been brilliant speakingwith you.
Well done so far.
You've really set a model and abenchmark and it's really
exciting.
Thanks a lot for speaking withme.
SK (24:07):
Thank you very much, Anthony, much appreciated.
AJ (24:09):
That was Stephen King, founder of the Australian
Insulation Foundation of WA.
The music you're hearing is bySelfless Orchestra.
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks again for listening.
T.
We had to try and find a way to help social housing
tenants and then one night itwas very late it just popped
into my head why don't I just,you know, for the insulation I
install for homeowners, whydon't I just say $1 per square
metre, t funds free insulationfor social housing?
And remarkably, it worked.
AJ (00:25):
G'day and welcome to the Clean State WA podcast.
My name's Anthony James fromThe RegenNarration podcast, on
board with you here for thisspecial series dedicated to our
home state of Western Australiaand the newly released Clean
State Jobs Plan.
Stephen (00:41):
I'm Stephen King from Australian Installation
Foundation.
AJ (00:45):
Stephen's the founder, c and head installer of the
Australian Insulation Foundationof WA.
While working in his insulationbusiness, Stephen found social
housing tenants were desperatelyin need of insulation but had
no means of getting it.
So he set up a charity, added alittle premium to his main
(01:06):
service and provided housinginsulation for social housing
tenants free of charge.
One such resident is MariaNovac, a single mum with a
family who unexpectedly foundherself in need of social
housing and landed in aneglected hotbox.
Maria can't thank Stephenenough for the difference it's
(01:26):
made to their lives, and they'renot alone.
And while the flow-on benefitsare enormous from health to
climate and education and moreperhaps the greatest benefit is
what it shows is possible ifgovernment were to back in a
plan to retrofit all 45,000social houses in WA in this way.
Maria was kind enough to hostStephen and I at her beautifully
(01:49):
cool place for thisconversation and where we are
now.
Stephen, it's a place that'sbeen central to your journey in
many respects and a realhighlight of your journey.
I think you even called it yourgreatest achievement at one
stage, can you?
Stephen (02:03):
describe where we are and why?
It actually started off.
My small business, AusKingInstallation, was just starting
out and there was quite a bigproblem with the installations
industry at that point,especially with the debacle of
Kevin Rudd and Peter Garrett andtheir installation scheme and
the media.
That gave installation a bit ofa stigma.
(02:24):
Yeah, so important still veryimportant and I don't think the
um.
Everybody was just going mad.
Using electricity especially,new air cons were coming out in
the market.
It seemed just to changepeople's theories from instead
of getting installation, let'sjust get a bigger air con, and
that made it very difficult forus.
But I was actually gettingquite a lot of phone calls from
(02:46):
social housing tenantsrequesting insulation and that
sort of made me think.
And so what's going on here?
How is this happening?
Why are these tenants callingme?
Why isn't the Department ofHousing or social housing
providing such basic needs tothese tenants and why are they
(03:08):
still?
AJ (03:08):
calling me.
Yeah, you might have assumed itwas covered.
Their needs were covered.
Stephen (03:12):
Yeah, I just assumed that all social housing
properties provided the needsfor their tenants.
Unfortunately, it wasn't thecase, and once I started digging
around finding out why this wasthe case, I was actually quite
alarmed of the neglect thatsocial housing tenants were
having to deal with such simpleand basic needs of thermal
(03:36):
insulation on its own.
AJ (03:38):
So what led you to the house we're in right now.
Stephen (03:42):
Well, Mary actually contacted us through our online
ad on gumtree simple as that,yeah, simple as that in the
beginning we had to try and finda way to help social housing
tenants and and then one nightit was very late.
Uh, it just popped into my headwhy don't I just, you know, for
(04:05):
the insulation I install forhomeowners, why don't I just say
$1 per square metre, get fundsfree insulation for social
housing?
And remarkably, it worked andit brought in a lot of business
for the foundation.
It improved my financial statusas well.
I was actually able to, youknow, create an income for
(04:26):
myself, because it's super hard.
In the beginning, I mean, I wason, I was on dire straits
because there was just no workcoming in.
So you found people respondedwhen you said with a portion of
what you pay me for puttinginsulation in, I'm going to help
other people yeah, it helps andand I suppose it would do I
mean, if you, if you have achoice of two companies or other
(04:48):
companies that haven't got a acaring point about their
business, how long before youended up at maria's house had
you landed on this idea andstarted to get that fund coming
in uh, about six months.
six months, yeah, it wasn't thatlong at all, so you hadn't done
?
AJ (05:04):
had you done a few social houses before you got to Maria
Three, Three?
This was early days.
Stephen (05:09):
Yeah, early days, and I wasn't quite sure how we
managed to get past theDepartment of Housing and Social
Housing properties.
I just didn't think they wouldallow us, but they did Well.
They had no choice because itwas up to the tenant to pay for
their own installation.
Is that right?
Yeah, so that's how we entered,and if it wasn't for that
(05:30):
clause, we wouldn't have thisopportunity, because I believe
that a lot of social housingproperties, including Department
of Housing, have their owncontractors.
AJ (05:42):
Well, that's what I'd assume as well.
So that's interesting thattenants don't get provided for
in that way, or at least weren't.
But they've got the freedom tochoose how they get it, which
probably doesn't help many ofthem.
Stephen (05:53):
But here's where you step in.
AJ (05:54):
Yeah, so let's talk a bit about why it matters so much.
Stephen (06:00):
Oh, it's incredible.
Insulation is such a simplething to as an addition to a
household to make all thedifference.
Out of all your building fabric, insulation is the thing that
really makes the difference.
You can have a multi-milliondollar home, but if it's got no
insulation then it's unbearableto live in.
AJ (06:19):
Or you'll be busting a gasket on aircon and heating.
Stephen (06:22):
And it's noise pollution.
If you've got an aircon on allday, sort of that buzz in your
ear would have an effect on howyou sleep at night.
Yeah, the white noise, totallythe white noise.
No, it's just a no-brainer.
AJ (06:31):
Yeah, and then, particularly for the social housing stock,
where you have often morevulnerable people, the benefits
are compounded.
Same with, obviously, climatebenefits, with less emissions
and so forth.
But you found even more thanthat.
Stephen (06:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think one of the majorimpacts that we've had on
people's lives is just comfortwithin their own home.
It's less stress, less mentalstress, less physical stress.
It makes them healthier.
Better air quality in the homeby removing the old blow-in
insulation and reduction ofmould.
(07:06):
Insulation has solved a lot ofour clients' mould issues
because when you've got a fan onand if that fan isn't vented
correctly into the air beyondthe roof, then that moisture
stays in the roof itself and alot of the properties that we've
gone to that we've insulated alot of their vents, a lot of
(07:29):
their fans are not ventedcorrectly.
It's super nasty, superdangerous very bad for your
health.
AJ (07:34):
Yes, and it's so easily rectified by having a good
ventilation, correctly.
Stephen (07:36):
It's super nasty, super dangerous, very bad for your
health.
And it's so easily rectified byhaving a good ventilation and
insulation.
AJ (07:42):
Insulation stops the condensation and the buildup of
heat on top of the ceiling andthat's really indicative of the
health benefits across the boardthat then feed back into
employment and educationprospects and abilities to
access a life in society that'sfulfilling and contributes.
That's great yeah.
(08:03):
Tell us about what you've seenon that front.
How does that manifest itself?
Stephen (08:07):
It takes away the bad issues.
It takes away the thoughtprocess of my house is hot, I've
got mould, my air quality ispoor because I've got dust
coming through the vent.
So you no longer think aboutthese issues.
And if you no longer thinkabout these negative issues,
(08:28):
then a bit of positivity stayswith you.
It's just something you don'thave to worry about anymore and
feel stigmatised potentially andworry about anymore and feel
stigmatized and and the factthat now you're living with
equality and not only thequality, but the fact that you
know that every time you don'thave to turn on a heater or an
(08:49):
air con, you're doing somethingfor the environment and you're
reducing reducing your ownexpenditure with the heating and
cooling costs, and in somecases it just outright saves
lives.
Basically?
Yes, as a matter of fact itdoes Interesting.
Last week we were insulating aproperty in Chute Hill and the
(09:09):
lady she's got a neighbour.
He's 94.
And last year when we had thosethose 40 degree days, the three
days it was consecutive, on thethird day she realised that she
hasn't spoken to her neighbourin those three days and she went
over there and he was on thefloor laying down and his body
(09:30):
had reached a temperature beyondthat should be ever experienced
and he was hospitalized for acouple of weeks and he lived,
but we know many othersituations where it's worse than
that they actually.
Yeah, absolutely they don't makeit.
No and and insulation, simpleit's so.
It's such a no-brainer.
It makes all the difference.
It will reduce hospital visits,it will improve health, it will
(09:53):
improve the environment and itwill improve the hip pocket.
So it will improve health, itwill improve the environment and
it will improve the hip pocket.
So we'll put more money backinto the community and that
allows people to buy better food, you know, excursions, better
clothing and more clothing, andit just goes on and on and on
the benefits of such a simplething.
I mean the four to six hourstakes us to do the job and then
life's improved.
AJ (10:14):
I'm glad you mentioned hospital incursions because
there's actually a story out ofthe states right now this
appeared on the reasons to becheerful news site out of the
states that started up maybelast year I think a story about
hospitals funding housingretrofits.
Wow, yes, fantastic.
Rather than more facilities inthe hospital, because they
(10:37):
realize that's where the healthbegins, and the benefits have
indeed included more educationoutcomes, more employment
outcomes, less crime, lesshospital incursions, especially
for kids, and a bunch of otherflow-on benefits from that.
It just goes to show what aterrific model that is the
hospital itself is injectingthat funding it's fantastic,
(11:00):
fantastic and you know when youthink about it.
Stephen (11:02):
For the cost of a new hospital or an upgrade of a new
hospital to to accommodate morevisits will probably pay for the
installation for all socialhousing.
You know, if it's going to costthem a couple of hundred
million dollars to upgrade ahospital to accommodate the
amount of people coming throughtheir doors, if they use that
money to provide that freeinstallation for social housing
(11:25):
or to pay for the cost of thatsocial housing, then that's a
large percentage of people nothaving to come through the door
because they're a lot healthier.
AJ (11:34):
In WA we're talking about about 45,000 families slash
households that are socialhousing stock, a lot of it in
need, 80%.
Stephen (11:45):
Yeah, there you go 80% are uninsulated or they were
insulated prior to 2012, andthat means their energy rating
would not meet the currentstandards today.
AJ (11:57):
There you go.
So your vision then andcertainly Clean State is to have
every one of those retrofitted,and not just with insulation
necessarily, for that matter,other passive things like double
glazed windows and so forth,draft proofing, et cetera.
Stephen (12:12):
Double glazing windows on high traffic areas, solar
panels on all their roofs too,and including batteries, so the
house becomes self-sufficientInstallation, of course, and
also ridding of gas out ofsocial housing properties, so we
don't need gas at all in socialhousing properties.
There are far better, efficientways of cooking.
Induction stovetops are amazingTo heat up two litres of water
(12:36):
with gas.
You're looking at six to eightminutes With induction less than
a minute.
AJ (12:40):
Yeah, and this again is as so many of these interventions
are they're low cost to startthem, as you found, but they're
ultimately no cost or net gainby far.
What would be required then fora government to sort of get
this going, but in the way thatultimately would be a budget
(13:03):
positive type of scenario?
Stephen (13:05):
So in Australia there aren't many ways to offset your
carbon footprint, but there's somany other ways you can reduce
carbon footprint.
Insulation is a massive one.
As I mentioned before, 1.8tonne from each household is
reduced from the reduction ofheating and cooling costs In a
year, in a year per year, and aswell as saving of $600.
(13:28):
So if you've got 50,000 houses,social housing, properties, if
every one of them was insulatedand the savings are 1.8 tons per
year, then you're looking at90,000 tons per year of
reduction of co2 and that'sastonishing considering that our
co2 levels for housing sits at11% of our total.
(13:52):
Yeah, so it's significant.
It's significant and it wouldnearly cancel itself out on the
top-end scale.
But obviously, you know, peopleare still going to use their
heaters, people are still goingto use their air con, obviously
for the extremities of thetemperatures, but the majority
of those costs will reducebecause, like Maria she said she
(14:15):
was planning on getting an aircon, but now she doesn't have to
.
She can put up with those threeor four day really hot days and
otherwise put on a jumper,which is very significant
because she's saved herself afew thousand dollars not having
to install the air con.
And the fact is that that moneycan go to better use.
(14:36):
So you've done about what?
20 of these now?
Yeah, 21.
We did our 21st propertyyesterday and we've got one
booked in for next Wednesday.
AJ (14:48):
Just to be clear, they don't pay at all, not a single cent.
Maria finds you on Gumtree, yourock up and say, yep, I can
take care of this.
Stephen (14:56):
Yep, that's what we do.
We booked Maria in, jumped upon the roof and then we
installed it with R4installation earth wool, knuff,
earth wool.
So that's a glass.
Yes, it's made from recycledbottle glass Recycled bottle
glass yeah.
Over 90% of it.
It's a phenomenal product.
The amazing part about it isits flexibility.
(15:19):
You would think glass is notflexible, but it's crazy how
flexible these bats are.
I mean, they're very durable.
There's no shards of glass init, there's nothing.
It's just like a pillow.
AJ (15:35):
That is fascinating.
Stephen (15:36):
Yeah.
AJ (15:36):
And that makes me think, then, because you know, on top
of all this and certainly partof Clean State's proposal is
that you add a bit moreinvestment to then have solar or
whatever's appropriate on thishousing stock as well.
And that makes me think of thedramatic need, if we're going to
roll out renewables as fast aswe need to, to be able to have
(16:00):
circularity in that system, tobe able to bring back a lot of
the resources at end of life ofthose panels, etc.
And I wonder then, with theglass in solar panels, if that
opens up opportunities to haveit come back into insulation,
let alone other solar panelsabsolutely.
Stephen (16:15):
Huh.
I mean, we're in a recyclableworld now and there's no reason
why we can't recycle everything.
Matter of fact, what are wedoing producing stuff if it
can't be recycled?
AJ (16:25):
yeah, there's so much in that isn't there to be
absolutely able to take apartthe materials.
Stephen (16:29):
Yeah, to process and the fact that the insulation, uh
is, is recyclable.
You could, it's just glass, sosurely you can melt that down
and put it back through yourprocess so eventually we can get
to the point where we're in areal need to do any mining, to
do any fracking.
Everything can be reused andmoving forward without having to
(16:51):
destroy our planet any furtherthan what we have.
AJ (16:54):
Yes, recycling is the new mining.
An old mate of mine used tocall that conservation mining.
Stephen (16:59):
I like that Just as a metaphor.
AJ (17:00):
Yeah, absolutely I like that , so you've done 22.
We need how many 50,000?
Stephen (17:06):
done 000 done 50 000 done objective 10 years,
objective 10 years.
AJ (17:10):
So that's to say, I mean I'm struck by, on the one hand,
you've just gone and done thislike other people can just go
and do stuff like this everybodycan you just get up and do it.
Stephen (17:20):
You don't look to somebody else to do it, you do
it yourself.
And if you can't do it yourself, then find like somebody else
to do it.
You do it yourself.
And if you can't do it yourself, then find like-minded people
to help you with your journey.
This is what we've done andI've had to bring in.
I've had to reach out forpeople to come and help me, and
they have.
That's what it's all about.
You know, even if you spendwhatever time you can to help an
(17:43):
organisation or to help aperson move slightly forward to
reach their goals and theirdreams and ambitions and
obviously if it improvespeople's lives, then just do it
and to get to scale.
AJ (17:58):
having said that, and the empowering bit of just getting
on with it, there's stuff thatgovernment's going to be able to
do here to facilitate the scaleand the speed that we're after.
What do we need from governmentor other, even private,
mechanisms?
Stephen (18:15):
I think the governments need to really look forward,
look towards finding out howmajor business can reduce their
carbon footprint and I believewe have a national carbon offset
, I suppose, mechanism, but Ifeel that the mechanism is very,
very difficult.
(18:36):
We struggle to try and get somesort of accreditation for our
carbon credits that we'reproducing from the free
installation that we install.
Really, you're struggling likewe know that there is a major
carbon reduction footprint ininsulation and to try and get
certification on our carboncredits we have to go
(18:59):
international to gold standardsto get that.
But we're not out there to tryand sell credits to anybody else
in the world.
We want to sell our creditslocally I mean really local,
like wa, yeah, so I would liketo see uh west australian
government put a panel togetherto help organizations like me,
uh, like us to to gainaccreditations for our credits,
(19:22):
and all it takes is is to bringthe scientists involved.
There was a study done in innew zealand it's called warm up
new zealand and they did.
They went and insulated everysocial housing property in new
zealand.
They've done it, they've doneit and they've done their
reports and there is a massivecarbon saving with the
installation, not just from thereduction of heating and cooling
(19:45):
costs, but also less hospitalvisits.
AJ (19:48):
The same thing.
Stephen (19:55):
Yeah, and every component of that process going
to hospital carries a majorcarbon footprint.
So I think I would like to see,if we ask to get our carbon
accreditation, then governmentsand corporates should open their
arms and say, yeah, we can getthis passed, it just needs you
know, certification.
It should be just a no-brainer.
Yeah, ok, look, they'rereducing, they've found a way to
(20:17):
reduce carbon footprint.
Let's help them work outexactly how much of a carbon
footprint they're reducing andthen give them a certificate so
they can sell their carboncredits.
AJ (20:26):
So you can't keep up with the current demand right now.
Stephen (20:30):
You're pushed to the hilt, I'm pushed to the hilt, so
you really need other people tocome in and do this work.
AJ (20:35):
There's opportunity abounding here.
Stephen (20:37):
We're struggling to get employees.
It's just me and my off-sider,terrell.
You know I'm pushing 50.
I can see you know I'm pushing50 I consume myself going for
another five, at least anotherfive years in the roof I prefer
not to be in the roof.
I prefer to give other youngpeople opportunities to gain
employment and and then me stepout of the roof so I can focus
on getting more people in theroof and more and providing more
(20:59):
jobs.
And well, we need to.
To achieve the 10 years thatall social housing done in 10
years, we need to.
We need to do 5 000 a year.
And if we need to do 5 the 10years that all social housing
done in 10 years we need to.
We need to do 5 000 a year.
And if we need to do 5 000 ayear.
That's.
You know, that's quite a lot.
AJ (21:12):
So much scope there it's such a dovetailing of recovery
from covert housing needs,climate related needs, health
benefits, yeah, I think cleanstate actually are talking about
a three-year even time spanrather than 10 for some of this
stuff Ambitious, but not with amassive price tag, particularly
when you do consider the looparound benefits that ultimately
(21:34):
feed that funding back.
But I want to actually go outwith reference to a sort of a
broader vision.
I suppose I introduced thepodcast series with this.
It's the idea that we wouldhouse and employ everyone.
Podcast series with this.
It's the idea that we wouldhouse and employ everyone.
Like why wouldn't you have thatas a basic bedrock of success
of a society, and all the morein the context of the
transitions we need?
And this seems to be such a bigpart of it then, particularly
(21:58):
when you do marry it up with theother big proposal, which is to
house every person that doesn'teven have a house.
So the 14 000 people on thepublic housing waiting list,
right?
Stephen (22:11):
now in wa.
AJ (22:12):
So if we build those 15 000 homes in three years as well and
that brings to mind then whatthe victorian government just
announced a five billion dollarfund to basically do something
akin to that 12,000 houses,three or four years and it's
very similar to what CleanSlater are proposing here you
just get excited then when youmarry that with transit centre
(22:35):
planning and the renewableenergy rollout and the passive
stuff that you're involved in,that there's a holistic vision
here that could achieve thatultimate mark of success of a
society absolutely.
Stephen (22:48):
We've got enough people here to do it.
We've just got to encouragethem.
We've just got to give them thereason why it's so important to
to be our chief.
Such a thing if you announce aband coming over and they're a
big band, probably you know U2.
And within three months they'reable to gather 100,000 people
(23:11):
into one place, and that's justfor one band.
How hard would it be to createthe same sort of hype?
But get people into buildingthese places.
Get young people into theworkforce, even if they just did
it for a year.
Train them up for three months.
Get them working in a year tohelp out construct and get these
(23:35):
houses built.
Then after that year they cango off back to studies or it
will give them a trade as wellif they want to continue on with
the trade, but just lifeexperience.
So when they go to build theirown house, they've got knowledge
.
It's definitely doable.
It's no problem trying to bringthe people together.
It's the fact that how do we doit and what encouragement are
(23:58):
we giving these young people?
AJ (23:59):
Terrific, Stephen.
It's been brilliant speakingwith you.
Well done so far.
You've really set a model and abenchmark and it's really
exciting.
Thanks a lot for speaking withme.
SK (24:07):
Thank you very much, Anthony, much appreciated.
AJ (24:09):
That was Stephen King, founder of the Australian
Insulation Foundation of WA.
The music you're hearing is bySelfless Orchestra.
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks again for listening.
T.
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