Beyond Killers of the Flower Moon: Nicol Ragland introduces a special series with the Osage Nation

Welcome to the launch of a very special series from a very special visit to the Osage Nation. Some of you might recognise the Osage Nation from the recent Martin Scorsese film, Killers of the Flower Moon (have a look at this awesome live performance at the Oscars). Or from the book that was based on, by David Grann. Or indeed, from the podcast series, In Trust. They’ve all done a heck of a job bringing to new light and new generations what was done to the Osage back in 1920s Oklahoma. In this series, we follow the story of the Osage in the 2020s – mapping a masterful resurgence of land reclamation, food sovereignty, the return of language, and so much more.

Our privilege was to share time with Chief Standing Bear, and later the Nation’s Secretary of Natural Resources, Dr Jann Hayman. The stories and work of both are captivating, moving and often astounding. 

To set the scene for us first is the person who introduced us, friend and filmmaker Nicol Ragland. You might remember Nicol as director of the very first Farmers Footprint film, among many others. Or episode 80 on this podcast. Well, four years since that podcast, after we moved on from last week’s incredible story in Texas, we met Nicol for the first time in person at her home in Oklahoma City. And after we’d visited the Osage together, we headed out to Nicol’s farm. That’s its own story. For this episode though, I asked if she’d share some of the story of her unlikely return to her roots in Oklahoma, and how only then did she start to learn of its deeper stories.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 8 April 2025.

Title slide: Nicol at her farm (pic: Anthony James).

For more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Beginning & ending music by Jeremiah Johnson.

Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Episode Transcript

AJ (00:06):
G'day Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
listener-supported podcastexploring how people are
regenerating the systems andstories we live by.
Today we launch a very specialseries from a very special visit
to the Osage Nation.

(00:27):
Some of you might recognize theOsage Nation from the recent
Martin Scorsese film Killers ofthe Flower Moon, or from the
book that was based on by DavidGrann, or indeed from the
podcast series In Trust.
They've all done a heck of ajob, bringing to new light and
new generations what was done tothe Osage back in 1920s

(00:49):
Oklahoma.
In this series, we follow thestory of the Osage in the 2020s,
mapping a masterful resurgencein many ways of land reclamation
, food sovereignty, the returnof language and so much more.
Our privilege was to share timewith Chief Standing Bear and
later the Nation's Secretary ofNatural Resources, Dr Jann

(01:12):
Hayman.
The stories and work of bothare captivating, moving and
often astounding.
To set the scene for us todayis the person who introduced us,
friend and filmmaker, NicolRagland.
You might remember Nicol asdirector of the very first
Farmer's Footprint film, amongmany others or episode 80 on

(01:32):
this podcast.
Well, four years since thatpodcast, after we moved on from
last week's incredible story inTexas, we met Nicol for the
first time in person at her homein Oklahoma City, and after
we'd visited the Osage together,we headed out to Nicol's farm.
That's its own story.
For this episode, though, Iasked if she'd share some of the

(01:55):
story of her unlikely return toher roots in Oklahoma, and how
only then did she start to learnof its deeper stories.
Hey, Nicol, here we are at thefarm, where we spoke four years
ago, and you were inside overthere.
Amazing to be with you.

(02:15):
Thanks for bringing me here.

Nicol (02:16):
It's magic that you're here.

AJ (02:17):
It gives us a chance to talk about who we met the other day,
the conversation that I hadwith Chief Standing Bear, who
you were able to introduce me to.
How did your connection withhim come about?

Nicol (02:29):
It came about by virtue of coming back home to Oklahoma
maybe coming up on eight yearsnow and by virtue of directing
the film Farmer's Footprint.
I came back to Oklahoma.
It's a long roundabout story,but I think I circled Oklahoma
like a buzzard for a while,wondering if, when I could land

(02:51):
here and reenter my home state,I left here really young, when I
was 16 and lived in Coloradoand Los Angeles and different
parts of the world and learningso much around the importance of
regeneration and regenerativeagriculture and soil health and
realizing that soil health andour relationship to land is

(03:12):
essentially 99 of our 100problems solved right.
And so I just started makingcontacts with folks across the
state soil health experts andNGOs and state agencies and you
know there's a handful of folkshere.
It's a small state, there'smore land than people here and
just you know, making theconnectivity and realizing they

(03:34):
needed more storytellers and Ineeded them, their expertise,
and and then, long story short,really started creating more,
for the Oklahoma Association ofConservation Districts became
their creative director.
They represent, I believe, fivedifferent tribal conservation
districts across the state andum, one of which is the Osage

(03:55):
nation, and so um part of what Iwas instigating more within the
nonprofit was how do we reachmore people, how do we reach
more consumers?
Not just singing to the choir,but how do we create more
connectivity and bridge buildingbetween producers and consumers
connectivity and bridgebuilding between producers and

(04:17):
consumers.
And so we did a screeningactually of to which we belong,
and had a couple of producers aswell as chief standing bear and
I had I think I'd reached out.
I was trying to remember theexact time that I met him
directly, but I I'd known thatthey had received some COVID
funding, of which instigatedtheir massive greenhouse and
their mercantile and theirprocessing plant, which was a

(04:38):
very big deal for a tribe toreally start building more food
sovereignty and self-sufficiencyfor their people.
And they're a smaller, smallertribe.
So I was super excited aboutthat and just reached out to Jan
, who you talked to, who'sdirector of natural resources,
and said you, this is my work,can I come document what you're
doing and learning a little bitmore?

(04:58):
And Chief Standing Bear wasjust readily available.
He was just so wonderful andopen-hearted and willing and
oftentimes it can be difficultto reach chiefs of tribes, so it
was really wonderful to makethat connection because he's
just kind and open-hearted andwilling and very, very focused
and caring about foodsovereignty for their people.

AJ (05:21):
Yeah, it sure was great to speak to them both and find all
that welcoming as well.
And before we met the other dayand went out to meet them, you
had talked to me about some ofthe context and then shared a
podcast with me that shared someof the context too.
I'd love if you can walk usthrough that, set the
conversation up that I ended uphaving out there, or the

(05:41):
conversations by way of thecontext that they have
confronted, I mean, from howthey came to be here at all and
a bit of the story of whatoklahoma is, in that sense, such
a unique part of the storythrough to what they is, in that
sense such a unique part of thestory through to what they
confronted in the last century,that holds what they're doing
now in such esteem.

Nicol (06:02):
Well, I don't hold myself a Native American history buff
and everyone should listen to InTrust by Bloomberg.
It's probably hands down thebest podcast that I've ever
heard on the history of theOsage Nation, and so I don't
want to lose track of thespecifics of their history.
But you know, in short and whatmany people witnessed in

(06:22):
Killers of the Flower Moon, it'sreally amazing that that book
you know became into a giantScorsese film and people across
the country learned about thehistory of the Osage Nation
Across the world.
Across the world thanks toMartin Scorsese.
Absolutely so, again, the powerof storytelling.
A small tribe, you know, andended up at a table at the

(06:43):
Oscars, including Chief StandingBear, which was incredible.

AJ (06:46):
With an extraordinary performance you told me, about
which I've since looked up andseen.

Nicol (06:50):
Wow.

AJ (06:50):
Yeah, I'll link to all that here.

Nicol (06:52):
Yeah, but you know, in short, in the 20s the Osage were
one of the wealthiest peoples,certainly in the country, if not
across the planet, andpredominantly because of oil.
So we all know the typicalstory in the states of the
extraction and raping andpillaging and taking of land and
marrying into families in orderto obtain said land and oil

(07:14):
reserves, and just brutal,incredibly violent, horrible
history.

AJ (07:20):
Marrying to then kill to get the rights.
Yeah, I mean extremely violent,as depicted in the film.

Nicol (07:26):
Yeah, I mean extraordinary creative cruelty,
the kind that you listen to andyou can't believe that we're
capable of doing.
So, yeah, I mean, they're stillhere, which is incredible, and
making their way and again asmaller tribe and doing the best
they can.
And it's incredible that thereis light on their history now

(07:47):
and and as far as I know, canactually still be happening of
the wanting to take oil in thatparticular area and wanting to
take up land and head rightsthat has essentially still
robbed them of land that theydeserve.
So, yeah, it's an incrediblehonor just to know them and to
sometimes work tangentially tothem and with them and for them.

(08:07):
It's a gift to come home toOklahoma and learn so much of
this Native history that Ididn't learn growing up.
I had to get well into my 40s tolearn the details of all of
this and then to have it circleback into the space of soil,
health and life and regeneration, where we all know this has

(08:29):
become a catch word and veryoversaturated and capitalized on
, and we've talked a little bitabout this.
It's almost difficult to usethe word regeneration when
essentially, this is whatindigenous peoples have been
doing since the beginning oftime, and so, um, to have that
circle into my own home stateand to relearn the history that

(08:51):
is all of our history.
It's, you know, specificallythe osage history.
It is theirs but it's ours.
It's our biological obligationand me as an Okie to learn that
and to listen, to constantlylisten and to be you know, in my
particular case, a storytellerand to try and you know, use my

(09:11):
tools to enhance their story andto possibly build on what
they're already creating in theworld of food sovereignty.

AJ (09:20):
Yeah, it is really striking to hear you talk about that what
you never knew as well andwhat's come to you as you've
come back to a place you neverthought you'd come back to.
It's all very interesting.
And then the broader backstoryto Oklahoma that I scarcely knew
about as well, where there are39 tribes here and we had this

(09:41):
expressed in the First AmericansMuseum, another story of
extraordinary well generation.
Only three or four years old,an amazing place, and it was the
Choctaw woman who showed usaround said that 39 tribal
nations with all the languagesthat run with that makes it a

(10:02):
more diverse landscape area thanEurope today, for example.
Things like that that just giveperspective.
But of course it wasn't chosen.
So for those who don't know,oklahoma only came to be as a
state 120 years ago.
What was it before that andwhat was the story behind that?

Nicol (10:24):
I mean, we all know well, not all, but the Oklahoma land
run right was the taking of landhere.
Yeah, there's more tribes inthis state than any other state
across the country, you know,and still surviving here.

AJ (10:36):
And that was the Trail of Tears, which I knew the phrase
of, but I didn't know exactlywhat it meant.

Nicol (10:45):
Yeah well, it's movement into this particular area in
order to survive.
So there's survival history,forced marches of tribal nations
from everywhere.

AJ (10:55):
So there came to be that concentration here.
I believe not all made it thatthere were to be more, but they
didn't survive or they wereforced out again with treaty
breaks and so forth.
There are 39 left and to thinkthat they're managing things in
this extraordinary way, like theOsage and the Choctaw and
Cherokee that we met as part ofthat museum amazing.

Nicol (11:14):
Yeah, and seed savers too .
I mean, there's tiny tribeslike the Pawnee I've connected
with the Pawnee before and stillprotecting their mother corn.
Actually, terry McCosker, ourmutual friend, and his wife came
out to visit and I took them tothe Pawnees and I mean tiny,
tiny place and they had actuallytheir mother corn that was

(11:36):
protected in a room that weweren't allowed to go into, in a
room that we weren't allowed togo into.
It's a really, really ancienttradition and protection of corn
that, as we all are well aware,is just gold at this point that
many people are trying to buyin order to, you know, heal
diabetes, some sort of, you know, crazy idea like that.

(11:57):
But, yeah, many holding reallyancient, ancient, precious
traditions that could easilyhave died off, that are that
they're still protecting andseed, as we know, is just.
I mean, we couldn't be, weshould be significantly more
protective of seed, native seed,yeah, and they're doing it, and
so, again, we have so much tobe learning from them yeah, and

(12:18):
be grateful for Nicole.

AJ (12:19):
Thanks for sharing the stories with us still in
everything you're doing, andthanks for sharing this context
with us for the conversationswe're about to hear with Chief
and Jan.

Nicol (12:29):
Yeah, of course.
Thanks for being here.
It's magic from the other sideof the world and the whole
family Grateful, very grateful.

AJ (12:35):
That was Nicol Ragland.
Next up, Nicol introduces us toChief Standing Bear.
Thanks very much to thegenerous listeners making all
this possible.
You too can join them inhelping to keep the show going
by heading to the website or theshow notes and following the
prompts.
Thank you he music you'rehearing is by Jeremiah Johnson.

(12:56):
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening.