‘I did feel like vomiting in that first two weeks’, with Independent MP Kate Chaney

Today we continue the new series Vignettes from the Source, featuring some of the unforgettable, transformative moments my guests have shared over the years. This one is from a little over three years ago. It’s the first and last six minutes or so, bridged together, of my very first conversation with Kate Chaney. Kate was to become, just a few months later, the 7th new community independent – and WA's first – elected to Australia’s parliament at the 2022 election. 

Well, on Saturday week, 3 May, Australia’s next federal election takes place, and Kate is standing again, amongst all able incumbents, and many others. We heard on last week’s episode of the continued burgeoning community independents movement, along with the escalated personal assaults, generally negative and often false campaigning being waged against them. Kate was mentioned as being particularly targeted. 

It made me think of this first time Kate and I spoke, by Galup/Lake Monger in Perth, partly for the start, where she described her gut-churning time deciding whether she’d step up into this maelstrom in response to the community’s call. And partly for the end, where I asked about her vision for the country, and if she had a rallying cry of sorts for us. Her answer feels all the more poignant given how many more independents are standing this time. I’ve also never forgotten Kate’s story behind her music choice (I offer my suggestion too).

Hear the full conversation in episode 110, after Kate won in episode 121, and most recently on some of the enormous outcomes during her term in episode 203.

Get involved everywhere via the Community Independents Project.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Originally recorded 22 February 2022.

Music:

Intro by Jeremiah Johnson.

Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, chosen by guests.

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Episode Transcript

AJ (00:05):
G'day Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
community-supported independentpodcast.
Today we continue the newseries Vignettes from the Source
, featuring some of theunforgettable transformative
moments my guests have sharedover the years.
This one is from a little overthree years ago.
It's the first and last sixminutes or so bridged together,

(00:29):
of my very first conversationwith Kate Chaney.
Kate was to become, just a fewmonths later, the seventh new
community independent andWestern Australia's first
elected to Australia'sparliament at the 2022 federal
election.
Well, on Saturday week, the 3rdof May, Australia's next
election takes place and Kate isstanding again amongst all able

(00:51):
incumbents and many others.
We heard on last week's episodeof the continued burgeoning
community independents movement,along with the escalated
personal assaults, generallynegative and often false
campaigning being waged againstthem.
Kate was mentioned as beingparticularly targeted.
To say I and so many of us havehad a gutful of that is to put

(01:15):
it lightly.
It made me think of this firsttime Kate and I spoke by Galup
/ Lake Monger in Perth.
, artly for the start, whereshe described her gut-churning
time deciding whether she'd stepup into this maelstrom in
response to the community's call, and partly for the end, where
I asked about her vision for thecountry and if she had a

(01:36):
rallying cry of sorts for uslocally and nationally.
Her answer feels all the morepoignant now, given how many
more independents are standingthis time.
I've also never forgotten Kate'sstory behind her music choice
to close A fortuitous moment,both deeply personal and now
still uncannily political.

(01:56):
I offer my suggestion for hertoo.
If you're inspired to revisitthe rest of this conversation,
I'll put a link to what wasepisode 110 in the show notes,
along with our conversationafter she won for episode 121
and our most recent from justbefore we left Australia a year
ago, on some of the enormousoutcomes during her term for

(02:18):
episode 203.
There are some photos on thosewebpages too.
And of course, to get behindyour community candidate in
Curtin with Kate or elsewhere,see today's show notes.
But right now let's go back tothese touchstone moments from
the very beginning.
Here's Kate.
So I'm curious where you werewhen the call came to stand.

Kate (02:43):
I know to stand.
I know well, I got.
I got two separate messages, Ithink, one on linkedin and one
via text message on the same day, which was would you be
interested in having aconversation with this curtain
independent group?
And um.
We were heading off to rottnestthat day for five days of
camping at Rottnest and um, andI actually took a call, or took

(03:10):
a call at the ferry, um, andthen the next day had a video
conference with six or sevenpeople from the campground, um,
and really it was.
I um realize it was going to bechanging the course of my life
at that point and probably forthe first, and then I spent a

(03:32):
lot of time in the next coupleof weeks on the phone talking to
different people, um, having agood hard think, really
examining for myself too is thissomething that I could do with
integrity?
And, be true to myself, I had agood hard think about am I
actually aligned to one or theother of the major parties, and

(03:54):
was quite methodical abouttrying to understand what do I
believe about this and what doeach of the major parties
believe about this, to reallyget a sense of whether it's the
right direction.
And I did feel like vomitingfor a lot of the time in that
first two weeks, just that senseof, um, this, there are a lot
of reasons not to go intopolitics and, um, you know it

(04:16):
comes at some personal cost.
But that, that feeling that, uh, it needs to be done, the time
is now, and the slow realisationthat I probably am quite well
positioned to represent thatgroundswell that's arising.

(04:36):
So, yeah, I felt pretty nervousabout whether it was the right
decision and then, since launch,it has really affirmed that it
is the right decision because itneeds to be done.
The energy is there, um, theopportunity is now and it's
quite that.
That's quite an exciting thing.
I think to to to realize thatchange is possible, it can

(04:58):
happen and that I can be part of.
That is really um, it'sinvigorating.
And if you're feelingfrustrated and like there's, you
know there are problems butthere's nothing you can do about
it, actually being given achannel somewhere to channel
that energy is a very positivestep, I think.

AJ (05:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Was there something inparticular that was really, I
don't know, almost catalytic inyour deciding to accept the
challenge, something that reallydug deep into your heart as to
why that clinched the deal, sortof thing?

Kate (05:35):
um, there are probably a few things I I think, um the
idea.
So climate change is a big partof my why I'm running and the
and probably seeing theindependents across the country
who share some things in common,and realizing that there was

(05:59):
the potential in this federalelection for independents to
make a real change to Australianclimate change policy, I did
think how can I have thatopportunity and not take it?
So that was a big part of it.
Also, I suppose the number ofpeople that I spoke to

(06:23):
confidentially before I launched, who just expressed hope and
relief at the idea of it, mademe feel like there's a need here
to be filled.
I mean, on the personal front,there are lots of risks and you

(06:44):
don't know who's going to throwwhat sort of mud, which is part
of the problem.
The people that we need to begoing into politics are the ones
who wouldn't do it because it'sa horrible game, and I know
lots of people who I think wouldmake a great contribution to
the country who are not in aposition to do it for various
different reasons.

(07:04):
I'm luckily in a position whereI can take four months off work
.
I have a supportive husband andfamily got good mental health
and physical health prettystrong in terms of my sense of
who I am.
So I think I have the fortitudeto do it and really it was not

(07:27):
one particular thing, it was awhole lot of things lining up
together that made me think I'mgoing to regret not doing this
more than I'll regret doing it.

AJ (07:35):
Yeah, interesting, I do think.
I mean, certainly one of thethings that hits me increasingly
these days is the how, howpeople are feeling everything
you've described really strongly, and so we can talk about the
young people, we can obviouslytalk about indigenous peoples,
and I even just think the factthat we've we still call

(07:57):
ourselves battlers you know theaussie battler thing we're the
richest civilization and country, for that matter, that's ever
lived how can we have as a normthe idea that we're battling and
that life is that way and thatthat's to be then exploited
politically?
You know, it feels like it's inkeeping with the whole thing.

(08:18):
Again, you know, and you talkedabout the people that wouldn't
stand, and historically that'sprobably included a lot of women
, and that's obviously been aflash point with parliament in
the last year or so.
Yet most of the independentcandidates coming up are women.
So there's something, there's aresponse, it seems in the air

(08:39):
to the moment across the board.

Kate (08:42):
I think women.
So I'm 47, I think women by thetime they get to my age.
I certainly feel like you'vejust got to get on with it and
get it done, and I feel likeI've had experience in different
parts of my life and somesuccess in different parts of my
life.
I've got less to prove and moreinterest in just using my one

(09:05):
wild and precious life forsomething worthwhile, and I do
think that there's somethingabout women in their late 40s
you know 50s who just want toget on and get it done.

AJ (09:31):
But then it's not just well.
In a sense one of the globaladvocates, paul Hawken in this
space says it's not so muchdecarbonisation, it's
re-carbonisation Draw down thecarbon from the atmosphere back
into the soils where it belongs,where it's been depleted.
So there's a sort of arenewables aspect, a shifting of
the energy system, theindustrial energy system, and
then there's this drawdownaspect that puts carbon back in

(09:55):
its place, sort of thing thatthere's a taste of even more
opportunity.
And when I have some of thediscussions I'm having around
the country, they include FirstNations with what they're coming
to call therapeutic, even, andcertainly cultural economies,
where there's a way ofexpressing value and receiving

(10:18):
value from their enormousknowledge and skill, either
through what we might gliblycall tourism or bush products.
But there's actually so muchmore.
There's actually a broadercontext which is all derived
from who do we want to be, wheredo we want to be?
How well do we want to be inthat 10, 20, 30 years?

(10:40):
It's that realintergenerational focus.
So when you say opportunity, Ijust see it flashing up
everywhere.
If we're prepared to make theleap, entertain it, back it in.

Kate (10:51):
And that leap is shifting our focus from the next three
years to the next 50 years.

AJ (10:56):
Yes.
Or even the next 10 would doyes, yes.

Kate (11:01):
But just changing that focus and thinking about all
that we have to be so gratefulfor here in Australia, and how
do we ensure that in 20 years,30 years, 40 years, we still
feel really grateful for youknow, we still are flourishing
in all the different senses ofthat word.

AJ (11:21):
Indeed, yeah, on that note, kate, how would you sum your
vision for the country in thosesorts of timeframes?

Kate (11:32):
Well, I think we should be really looking for a
flourishing economy thatdelivers great outcomes for
healthy communities.
Really and I could probablywordsmith it a little- bit.

(11:53):
But really the focus is we can'tignore the fact that our
material position is veryrelevant to the standard of
living that we appreciate thatwe have.
But healthy communities has gotto be at the heart of that, and
that includes our relationshipwith land, our physical health,

(12:15):
the health of other species aswell, because ultimately that's
what people really care about,that's what influences your life
and some of the shifts we seein mental health and social
isolation and loneliness andthese issues that go beyond GDP
but have a big impact on ourhappiness.

(12:35):
So we've got to look at thesystem as a whole and we've got
so much potential as a country.
So really trying to build,trying to work towards that
flourishing society is what Ithink government should be
focused on the whole time really.

AJ (12:53):
Hear, hear.
Do you want to end with arallying cry for not just locals
but, of course, people withindependent candidates not just
coming up?
Even?
Perhaps there are some thatstill haven't elected an
independent candidate but theyhave a voices group or whatever
a Curtin Independent equivalent.
They might be moving towardsone, but certainly for your
campaign as much as any aninvitation you'd like to put out

(13:16):
to people.

Kate (13:16):
Yeah, I mean for people who are in Curtin, I would say
have a good look at thealternatives, because I do think
that what I stand for isconsistent with a lot of people
in Curtin.
Now you actually do have analternative in Curtin, so have a
good look at it.
Broader, outside Curtin, mycall would be less about the

(13:41):
independent movement per se andmore about political engagement.
So, whatever you stand for,take your responsibility as a
citizen seriously, because thesystem is broken and we are the
system, so it's not someoneelse's problem.
Look at what's on offer, thinkabout what you can do about it
and don't underestimate yourability to have an impact,

(14:04):
because it's only through peoplestanding up and saying I expect
more and I want to be part ofthat change, but we will see
change, so don't wait forsomeone else to do it.

AJ (14:16):
Yes, a culture of engagement , the restoration of that.
Yes, underline Now did you getthe tip that we end each episode
with a question about a pieceof music?
Did you get that tip?

Kate (14:29):
I did, I just remembered.

AJ (14:33):
A piece of music that's been significant for you in your
life.

Kate (14:37):
Okay, so I've got one.
It's a little bit silly.

AJ (14:40):
Awesome.

Kate (14:42):
This was my husband and I called this our song because we
remembered a particular night atthe Chelsea Tavern back when it
was a thing on the dance floorquite early in our in our
relationship, where we weredancing to this song.
And then, when the campaignstarted, I was at the Rottnest

(15:03):
pub and this song came on and Ilooked at Bill and said, not not
only are they playing our song,but this kind of sums up where
we are in this campaign.
And that song is Stuck in theMiddle with you Clowns to the
left of me, jokers to the right.
Hopefully it doesn't evokememories of Pulp Fiction and the

(15:27):
scene from that movie, but Idid think that it could be our,
our sort of informal campaigntheme song totally good.

AJ (15:37):
You don't play it on guitar or anything, do you?
We could patch it in right now.

Kate (15:40):
I don't, I don't.
I could pull out the ukulele,but I won't put you through it
even better.

AJ (15:45):
You know.
You know this speaks to mygeneration and perhaps my
maleness, I don't know.
But there's a part in Do youremember Rocky, the movie Rocky.
I do remember Rocky and youremember where Adrian doesn't
want him to fight because he'sgetting hurt, and then there's a
moment where she gives himpermission to fight, but on one
condition that he wins and thebell tolls.

(16:05):
May you win.
Power to your arm, Kate.
Thanks a lot for joining me.

Kate (16:09):
Thanks so much, anthony, thank you.