September 2, 2025 • 37 mins
It’s fitting that my first Aussie guest back home would be this bloke. Stuart McAlpine is a multiple award winning wheatbelt farmer over here in WA, who’s just been named as a finalist in the prestigious national Bob Hawke LandCare Award. I’ve long looked forward to having him on the podcast, having met him as part of the group that organised the first major RegenWA conference staged at Perth Stadium back in 2019 (it was my honour to be MC for that group of people). Six years on, we’re on the cusp of RegenWA’s second major conference (Regenerating Food Systems), back at Perth Stadium, and I couldn’t have said ‘yes, I’ll be home for this’ quick enough, when invited to be MC again.
This time around, the conference will feature two days not one, and a full week of satellite events have spontaneously gravitated to its orbit. And this time, RegenWA is running its conference having become an independent not for profit organisation, with Stuart as its inaugural Chair. He’s also been a paid subscriber of this podcast for nearly four years, so you can imagine how humbling that is.
Ideally, of course, we’d be at the farm. But given we’ve just got home from a big journey with the pod, and given the conference, satellite events and award announcement are just a couple of weeks away now, we thought we’d jump online for a quick yarn to help gear up for this potentially pivotal moment in time.
Recorded 2 September 2025.
Title image from RegenWA's website.
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Music:
Against All Odds, by Tiko Tiko (sourced from Artlist).
Country Cousins, by Stuart McAlpine.
The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.
Pre-roll music: Heartland Rebel, by Steven Beddall (sourced from Artlist).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stuart (00:00):
just imagine if we could be diverting some of that
capital that's going into moretraditional approaches of
agriculture into winding thatback towards more natural
solutions, how far we could go,you know, and how quickly we
could make that happen, becauseyou know the feedback I get is
(00:24):
real.
You know, um, and the feedbackthat that other you know
regenerative farmers get isreally real.
AJ (00:32):
So we know what is possible g'day anthony james here for The
RegenNarration, yourindependent, listener-supported
podcast exploring how people areregenerating the systems and
stories we live by.
(00:52):
It's fitting that my firstAussie guest back home would be
this bloke.
Stuart McAlpine is a multipleaward-winning wheatbelt farmer
over here in WA who's just beennamed a finalist in the
prestigious National Bob HawkeLandcare Award.
I've long looked forward tohaving him on the podcast,
having met him as part of thegroup that organised the first
(01:13):
major Region WA conferencestaged at Perth Stadium back in
2019.
It was my honour to be emceefor that group of people at that
conference.
Six years on, we're on the cuspof Region WA's second major
conference back at Perth Stadium, and I couldn't have said yes,
I'll be home for this quickenough when invited to be MC
(01:34):
again.
This time around, theconference will feature two days
, not one, and a full week ofsatellite events have
spontaneously gravitated to itsorbit, and this time Region WA
is running its conference,having become an independent,
not-for-profit organisation withStuart as its chair.
He's also been a paidsubscriber of this podcast for
(01:54):
nearly four years, so you canimagine how humbling that is.
Ideally, of course, we'd be atthe farm, but given we've just
got home from a big journey withthe pod and given the
conference, satellite events andaward announcement are just a
couple of weeks away now, wethought we'd jump online for a
quick yarn to help gear up forthis potentially pivotal moment
(02:15):
in time.
G'day, stuart, how are you,mate?
Good mate, how are you?
Stuart (02:21):
Oh, still trying to get my brain working again after a
nice five weeks holiday.
Been a long while since thatholiday and I yeah, I'm still in
holiday mode a little bitreally.
AJ (02:33):
I wondered, if that might be true.
Stuart (02:34):
No, we had a great trip up through the Northern
Territory.
We travelled across on theNorthern, the Great Central Road
, which is a bit rough in places, with our off-road caravan.
So there's a group of four ofus that do this every couple of
years and, yeah, I actuallyhaven't had a holiday probably
for about a year and a half,which I'm normally pretty good
like that.
But it's just the way it'sworked out with staff and
(02:56):
getting to the back end of mycareer, I suppose, and sort of
making sure you're around, andit probably wasn't probably the
best of times to be away thistime because we've had really
good rain, but just always greatto get out on country and see
the beautiful landscapes andjust you know the biodiversity
and just, yeah, just do somewalking and just see the
(03:19):
beautiful rock formations anddifferent plants and animals and
and yeah, but then you know, toget to um, to get to kakadu and
sort of, have relayed sort offrom the tour on the yellow
river.
That you know, you know bringsback to reality, that you know
we're facing this period ofuncertainty where all the
(03:39):
natural um signals that theindigenous people have, you know
, for seasons and stuff likethat, are just chaotic, like
they're just completely, noteven just a little bit out of
sync, like they're just way outof sync, far out.
AJ (03:55):
They've been saying this for a while, huh, and it doesn't
get any like it continues.
So in in some ways I'm notsurprised to hear it, though in
other ways it's still stark tohear it.
It's like wow, we're really alllearning anew.
I mean, it still informs us,obviously, if 40,000, 60,000
years will still inform yourapproach and your ability to
notice.
But wow, yeah, differentcontext now.
Stuart (04:17):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it shows adaptability on one hand,
which is what I guess naturalprocesses are all about.
It's about improving resiliencefor change.
So that's the positive side ofit.
But the negative side of it is,you know, if you're looking at
extreme changes or events, youknow what potential does that
(04:42):
have to sort of diminishbiodiversity, and then you know
what potential does that have tosort of diminish biodiversity
and then you know, over time,diminish that resilience to sort
of you know, extreme climaticevents.
AJ (04:52):
Yeah, I hear you.
It's actually a good enoughsegue, as any Stuart, to go
where I really wanted to start,which is in recognition and
congratulations, mate, for beinga finalist in the prestigious
National Bob Hawke LandcareAward.
So you're one of threefinalists, the winner to be
announced in a few weeks.
Is there a particular angle ofrecognition that it's bringing
(05:13):
to the work that you have doneover decades, or is it sort of a
general purview?
Stuart (05:18):
Yeah, I'd like to think it was probably more of a
general piece around, sort ofyou know natural solutions and I
suppose a lot of my work inrecent times has, you know, has
been around the soil health andthe soil microbiome on the farm.
But you know a lot of stuffaround sort of setting up
community research groups, youknow, with the Levy Group, and
(05:42):
then regional repopulationinitiatives sort of through the
Shire of Dohwongi, which hasbeen also been highly successful
, and yeah, I guess I've alwaysbeen.
I mean, we run businesses,obviously, and businesses have
to be profitable, but we alsohave to live in communities and
those communities have to have ahealthy environment and
ecosystem to live in.
(06:02):
You know, to be part of andyeah, I still think that's my
greatest passion is people andcommunity and the ecosystem,
because at the end of the day,that's what gives you that
purpose in life and that's thefeel good bit.
You know, the business is greatbecause that gives you the I
don't know financial capital, Isuppose, to enjoy some of those
(06:23):
things.
But sometimes it takes it awayfrom you as well.
You, when you get caught up inthe business and sort of you
sort of don't get that balanceright, of sort of, yeah, sort of
contributing to society in abusiness sense, but also, you
know, that's only one part ofwhere you can make a major
contribution to society part ofwhere you can make a major
(06:45):
contribution to society.
AJ (06:48):
I always thought that business and money for that
matter in general are means tothe end rather than the end
itself.
And the end itself in this caseis life in its various forms
that you've outlined.
Yeah, well done, mate.
I believe the prize is quitebig too.
So good luck on multiple fronts.
On that one, I'm curious justto delve a little further into
your story.
We won't do it at length today,we'll do it another time,
because everything you justmentioned I'd love to do a whole
(07:10):
chunk on too.
But I'm wondering was there aparticular moment of
transformation in your journeythat you recall perhaps more
than others?
Stuart (07:20):
Yeah, it's a good question and I guess life is a
journey and there's lots oftrigger points along that
journey.
I mean, I've always lovednature.
My parents have always had lotsof wildflowers, you know.
You understand the greatwildflowers in Western Australia
, and we're lucky enough to havesome remnant vegetation on my
(07:41):
farm that my parents protectedand were very proud of.
You know they tried to recreatesome of that and dad was quite
innovative in that space, but hewas also a pioneer in sort of
agriculture, high rates offertilizer and productivity as
well, you know, on the lightersoils, you know, with legumes
(08:01):
and then nitrogen, and so youknow sort of that double-edged
sword and then, I guess, sort ofgrowing up there's a picture
that I use that shows and I'vejust been down there this
morning actually and there's acouple of swans down there where
you know when I was you knowI'm nearly 63 and you know when
I was sub 10 or you know four orfive you know we had bottle
(08:23):
brushes going around some of thelakes down in the valley system
and you know you would seeswans from time to time.
And of course we've lost mostof that country to salinity and
that has been a journey of bothmine and my father's to try and
sort of bring it back to thatand it's still a long way off,
but you know we're working at it.
But he got sick when I was atboarding school and got
(08:46):
diagnosed with leukemia and umit was, that was 1977, so it was
a long time ago, in the earlydays of chemotherapy and stuff
like that.
So he chose to.
He had a friend that had beendiagnosed with cancer and chose
to sort of go down the sort ofvegetables and dietary type
stuff.
He just had juices for a while,but I guess that sort of was a
(09:10):
nice.
He actually lived for 20 years,by the way, so he was given 18
months to live and I don't thinkhe would have made 18 months
actually like he got really sickquite quickly.
I made that decision then to gofarming.
I don't know whether I wouldhave been a farmer and I don't
regret that decision.
I was the oldest and I wantedto come home, so that was the
first trigger point that broughtme back to the land, even
(09:31):
though I loved the land and Iloved the community.
You know I love just having youknow back then there were so
many more people around in ourlittle communities and there was
a lot more picnics, you knowthis time of the year and you
know sort of bush type stuff,where everyone came together, um
, and of course there's very fewfarmers left now in in what fed
(09:51):
that sort of back then.
But so there it was an ideallyyou know growing up fantastic.
You know we were veryprofitable because we were
making money out of theextraction of that natural
fertility um, as degraded aswhat it is naturally in West
Australia, and did it very good.
But I suppose I came home, tookover the farm and, you know,
(10:13):
started the Levy Group up, whichis, you know, still is today
one of the premium grower groups, attracted a lot of research to
a lot of isolated area butrealised pretty soon that we
were just throwing more and moremoney at the conventional
system to continue to make itwork.
And we probably were and stilldoes to this day.
(10:34):
You know it still works.
But the amount of capital thatneeds to be thrown at it to
replace that, those naturalsystems as they disappear, is
Iisation, which is not healthyand it still exists, we've still
(10:58):
seen it.
And trying to organise thisconference, you know I would
have hoped we would have hadmore sort of sponsorship support
from mainstream agriculture andactually a lot of areas of
agriculture, and so it's stillthere, but it's not poles apart.
You know like we can actually,you know, go through a hybrid
system as apart.
You know like we can actually,you know, go through a hybrid
system as we, you know, learnagain to trust sort of nature
(11:21):
and what it can provide for us,if we, you know, if we hero it
and embrace it and work with it,rather than try and replace it
with artificial inputs and stufflike that to sort of deal with
the collateral damage.
It's not that we can't, youknow, and look, you know it's
still growing strongly, but itis having a large impact on our
(11:45):
communities because theycontinue to get bigger, because
it's really been driven byeconomies of scale more than
anything else, and the cost ofthat technology does make it
pretty fragile in a variableclimate.
So, um, so that that was atrigger point because we had a
focus on soil biology within thelevy group and that was where I
(12:07):
was first introduced to uhbiostimulants and, in particular
, biostimulant out of Canada,and we came out of a drought in
2002 and 2005 and, sorry, 2006and 2007,.
And a lot of people wereputting their workers off and I
thought, well, if anyone's goingto go and do some off-farm work
(12:28):
, that probably should be me,because I'll come back and we
tried this biostimulant andbecause I obviously was the
co-founder of the Levy Group andI'd done my first stint as
president and I was actuallychairing the R&D committee when
this product came to us and Ijust thought it was probably a
snake oil product and whatever.
But anyway, we trialled it andthis guy wouldn't go away and
(12:52):
the longer, the more we chatted,the more sense he was making
from the bit that I knew aboutsoil biology at that stage and
always understood that it wasthe third component of soil
health that we just neglected orfound it all a bit too hard.
So I trialled some on the farmand then I was given the
opportunity to go around andevaluate the product across
(13:14):
Western Australia where otherfarmers had trialled it, because
I had that sort of bit ofbackground with research as well
, with the Lebe Group and thenultimately around Australia, and
I just continued to see justsome amazing things happening in
the soil and in the rhizosphereof the plants and I thought,
hmm, I can't be the first personto see this, surely?
(13:35):
So, you know, I actually did abit more research and found this
whole sort of world out therethat perhaps the forgotten part
of soil health, you know, aroundsoil biology and more natural
systems.
And yeah, since then I've justlearned to trust it more and
more.
And, and you know, I thinkfarmers are some of the greatest
(13:55):
observational scientists thatwe have.
Like, we're out there, you know, and, um, you know, I think
farmers are some of the greatestobservational scientists that
we have.
Like, we're out there, you know, and if you pay attention and
observe what's happening in yourlandscape, you know you can see
a lot of things.
And yeah, and I guess, if youlook at the joy over the years,
you know I've been, because I'vebeen a pioneer sort of in this
soil biology space, you know,for you know 20 odd years or
more, you know I've had theopportunity to be part of sort
(14:16):
of in this soil biology space.
You know, for you know 20-oddyears or more, you know I've had
the opportunity to be part ofsort of the early soil biology
initiatives with GRDC and I goto the University of Sydney
every year to sort of present onsoil biology to their soil
biology masterclass and I getthe opportunity to see some of
this science now coming through.
That backs up some of theobservations that I've been
(14:37):
making for a long time.
I don't know how many times Ilisten to your podcast and hear
you know other farmers orscientists from around the world
sort of talk about things andgo, yeah, that's what I formed
in my head as well.
You know that's how I believeit to be, so it's always good to
get out.
For me and, you know, for theHaggerty's a lot of us like.
(15:00):
It's great to come togetherwith people around the globe at
times, that that you can talk tohonestly at a different level,
because it takes a lot ofbackground knowledge to get to
where I am at the moment andit's not something that you can
sort of just explain to peopleyou know in period of time?
AJ (15:19):
So, with the conference, stuart, why now and why did you
and the broader Region WA teamdecide to go doubly as big as
last time, six years ago, andconnect with so many more people
that we've seen a whole week ofother events sort of spin out
of it?
What was behind it and how didit sort of germinate?
Yeah, I guess.
Stuart (15:41):
RegenWA as an organisation has been very
successful in supporting, youknow, a lot of membership from
not only farmers but fromsociety as well, and we felt
that the time was right to sortof, you know, go back to Optus,
(16:03):
where it began in the early days, and really try and sort of
build a conference that sort oflinked all those people together
, you know, with soil, health,food security and human
wellbeing and theinterconnectedness of that, I
suppose.
But, you know, try and do it ina in a welcoming way, because I
think one of the things that weknow is that we need to build
(16:30):
food systems that move into thisdirection.
Because of that, you know, Ihave a very strong belief that
the commodity, commoditized foodthat we're producing is just
not providing us with the, withthe nourishment that we need,
and I think a lot of thatscience is is evolving and
coming together quite nicely.
But you know also the decliningsort of health of our ecosystems
(16:53):
and of our human well-being,not not just um physically and
as a as a consequence of thefood that we eat, but also as a
as a response to theenvironments that we're living
in and perhaps even you know,the, the response to, you know,
being farmers globally.
We, you know, we know thatmental health is is a huge issue
(17:14):
in agriculture globally as well, because of some of the
pressures that farmers have todeal with.
So we really wanted to try andbring together a conference that
was hopefully could encouragemore mainstream people to come
together because we really needto scale this up.
Come together because we reallyneed to scale this up.
(17:37):
You know, at the end of the day, if there's a handful of people
doing this globally, then it'snot really enough to have the
impact sort of across all thosesectors that we desire.
So I guess that was the realpurpose is yeah, we're sort of
pretty firm on that really.
AJ (17:51):
So I wonder, Stuart, out of all that then, as the rubbers
hit the road and we're two weeksout, what's exciting you most
about it?
Stuart (17:58):
Yeah, look, I think we have managed to pull together
some people from the humanhealth aspect, some stuff around
food quality, some of theframework around what is
regenerative agriculture andsome of the framework you know
around what is regenerativeagriculture and some of the
dialogue around that.
(18:19):
And then, you know, I'm prettyexcited, you know, some of the
science.
We've got biomakers coming toaround sort of you know, how we
bring some of the new tech stuffinto regenerative agriculture
and looking at sort of the DNAfootprint and sort of how
practices that we might orproducts that we might use may
(18:39):
impact that.
So that I think one of the wayswe have to bring more of
mainstream agriculture is, youknow, is to showcase you know,
to have the real evidence andthe cutting edge science to to
bring the rest of them along.
I think, yeah, and I'm quiteexcited that there are some
tools and some knowledge.
(19:00):
I think that if we can applythat you know more, we can
actually bring more people tosort of look at, you know,
bringing more natural systemsand natural solutions back into
the way that we farm.
AJ (19:12):
I see a focus, too on really extending out into the people
that aren't the growers as well.
Huh, Trying to help, to bringus all together on this stuff,
and that looks particularlyexciting to me.
I mean, I think of some of thepeople who were even on the
conference bill that are lookingto do that in various ways
themselves just be part of thatconnective infrastructure, as
(19:33):
you've done so much over theyears too.
Is that something that'sstanding out to you as well?
Stuart (19:38):
Oh, absolutely.
I was fortunate enough to go toCOP28 a couple of years ago in
Dubai and it is Like we, asfarmers, can't do this alone.
You know we need to bring thefinance sector along.
We need to bring the financesector along, we need to bring
government policy along.
We need to bring the consumeralong and show them that you
(19:59):
know that this food is worthchasing.
You know, just to get thatlittle bit extra done.
You know you go out on countrya lot to do your interviews and
I think one of the problems thatI see is there's a lot of good
intention out there, but I thinkuntil you get out onto country
and see the good and the bad,you know the bad, I guess, shows
(20:22):
us that we need to do better.
But by getting out there, Ithink there's a truer
understanding of what's required.
So, but we can't do this alone.
But we can't do this alone.
We need to do this all together, because farmers can't make
these changes without thefinance sector being on board.
(20:43):
We can't do it withoutsupportive policies from
government.
Move towards a food system thatactually does work, you know,
better with the environment andhopefully produce and
demonstrate the value of foodthat is produced sort of with
the microbiome.
(21:04):
I think you know, when you lookat a lot of the advances in
modern-day agriculture, you knowjust about every one of those
solutions now will have asentence about sort of working
with the human microbiome.
And you know the humanmicrobiome is a result of, of
the microbiome that we grow ourfood in and what we live in.
(21:25):
So the transference of thatmicrobiome in in food quality
nutrition to to us, directly orthrough animals, is is really
really important.
So a lot of work to be done.
But, um, we just need to beable to introduce more farmers
(21:45):
globally to this.
And, of course, we know we seea lot of the big food producers
of the world um, you know,moving more towards sort of
demands for more regenerativefood as well.
Now, you know we've got to makesure that that's genuine and
not greenwashing.
But so what we really wanted todo was try and get a really
(22:06):
inclusive conference togetherthat was welcoming of all people
to come along andnon-threatening really.
AJ (22:15):
I so hear you about getting out on country for that
appreciation and in all mannerof respects, and I see the
Governor got out to theHaggerty's Place, given that
they're our West Australians ofthe Year this year and the
Governor will introduce thisconference too.
So I wonder, stuart, if youwere to venture into and perhaps
you have a vision for whatmight really come out of the
(22:36):
conference and I guess, with allthe rest that's going to happen
around it in a couple of weeks,if we come out the other side,
what can you imagine?
Stuart (22:45):
yeah, well, I would like to see a way where all facets
of of of food you know, the foodsystem, or the supply chain for
one of the bed right the waythrough the consumer truly do
work together in a in a way thatis truly collaborative and
(23:09):
collective, you know, to to toget the outcomes, because it's
so important that we, we buildtrust.
I think one of the One of thenegative side effects to
capitalism is this you know,everyone's in it for their own,
you know, and everyone's tryingto eke out, you know, their part
(23:31):
of the economy, and theargument has been well, that
keeps Atlanta mean and, you know, test it out, but it hasn't
been particularly conducive totrust, particularly conducive to
trust.
And I think, you know, if youlook at the food system, with
some strong, you know,domination of the coals and
woolies, a lot of that value inthe supply chain has been
(23:53):
transferred over time, you know,within power to that, yeah, and
I mean, look, consumers, youcould argue, have perhaps ended
up with food prices that aremore affordable, but are they
more nutritious and are theymore better for it?
And has it provided us withfood that is the right food that
we should be eating?
AJ (24:14):
Yes, and then are we paying the price in other ways, with
health and environment andemergencies.
Stuart (24:20):
Yeah.
So I would like to think thatout of it we can actually get a
more holistic approach to foodproduction and the way we do it,
which is, you know, harkingback to regenerative systems.
Like there's so much in what wedo that is common.
(24:41):
Like farmers do a lot ofregenerative stuff, like I don't
know of farmers that don't wantto do the right thing by the
environment.
They just don't know how to doit.
And you know, quite often theycan't do that because they're on
this treadmill-type system aswell, which makes it really hard
to change.
But I do believe that weunderstand the system a lot
(25:04):
better now and can explain it alot better, and we could design
demonstration systems or wecould communicate that much,
much better than what we havedone in the past.
And inevitably we're going totransition.
You know it's always atransition from what you're
(25:25):
doing to a new point over time.
It's not, you know, shut thegate and we're just doing it
completely the other way.
That doesn't really work oftenthat well either, unless you've
got some, you know, significantcapital to do that that's.
AJ (25:39):
I think that's really well said the way you articulated it
then, and I and the treadmillmetaphor, and I think that's
true of, again, broader sectorsof society, in that I find, even
in the podcast, that whetherI'm talking to a farmer or I'm
talking to an Indigenous person,or talking to a business person
or whatever, there is a well,there's a relationality, there's
(26:00):
a relevance in each of whatwe're trying to do, in each of
our areas and each of our places, because it's that thing.
It's how do you get off thattreadmill when everything's
being geared to that one trackwith such certainty and so much
backing and so many years and somuch investment of different
kinds, all that sort of stuff?
(26:20):
And how do we help each otheroff that onto different tracks?
And maybe it's not even atreadmill next time.
No, maybe it's akin to walkingthrough the beautiful country
that you described at the start.
So that inspires me, I think,and it's a universalising thing.
In that sense too, I reckon weare all in that.
Stuart (26:40):
But that's perfect, aj, and really actually thanks for
bringing me back on trackbecause I look at what I've
achieved and other regenerfeedback that I've had from you
know some of my produce am Idoing it anywhere near its
(27:08):
capability?
Absolutely not.
You know, absolutely not.
Like I think we've justscratched the surface of what is
potential.
But for a pretty small business, you know, trying to sort of go
through that decision makingand and do my own r&d and do
testing and and take it further.
(27:30):
Like just imagine if we couldbe diverting some of that
capital that's going into moretraditional approaches of
agriculture into winding thatback towards more natural
solutions.
How far we could go, you know,and how quickly we could make
(27:51):
that happen.
Because you know the feedback Iget is real, you know, and the
feedback that other you knowregenerative farmers get is
really real.
So we know what is possible.
But why would we as society beputting all our eggs in one
(28:11):
basket?
Because, let's be franklyhonest, we still are Like it's
big tokenistic the amount ofmoney that's being invested from
our main research bodies.
I mean, there's always talkabout it around the edges, but I
think they really struggle withthe whole, you know, like it's
the whole.
That's important, and I've beenusing this analogy a bit lately
(28:35):
, and it's okay.
But look at your favouritefootball side, right?
We love sport in Australia,right?
AJ (28:43):
I'm partial to these analogies.
Yes.
Stuart (28:44):
Yep, and we love the AFL .
But, right, I'm partial tothese analogies.
Yes, yep, and we, we love theafl, and but any, look, it goes
for any sporting group.
And if you think aboutagriculture as as a footy side,
you know, we know that if we goout and just buy the marquee
players, we're not, we're notgoing to come home with the
premiership cup.
So we know that the rest of theteam's important, right, but
it's the ground that they playon, it's it's the doctors, it's
(29:07):
the nutrition, it's it's thestrappers.
If we're strapping, I'm wrong,you know.
And then they've got to,they've got to sell their team
to society to make them want tosupport them.
Now all of those go intosuccessful side.
Now that's dumbing it down alot from the hole.
That you and I understand, butit's the same.
And and I get frustrated, whenwe've been very, very good in
(29:31):
agriculture, finding the, themarquee players, if, if you want
to call it that, you know then's, the p's, the k's, you know,
and we've, we've, we've mademoney out of leveraging them.
You know, with some of thatbackground, fertility and
natural capital that's been leftover um from for forever, or
from some of our pasturesituations.
But you know something thatmight only be 0.001 of the
(29:56):
equation.
If you disregard that, itbecomes a problem ultimately,
like in the footy side if you'vegot the strapper that's
strapping the legs wrong or notmaking the right diagnosis, your
players are going to startgetting injured right.
From what I understand, nothingultimately is more important
than anything else.
(30:16):
It may seem to play a biggerrole, but unless we hero the,
the whole of the system, theneventually it fails or is not as
good as.
And why is that so?
And it doesn't matter.
If I'm doing what is the bestthing today, nature will always
want me to build more resilienceinto that, so it will always be
(30:38):
testing what we do.
Um, you know, like the changesin weather patterns and the
signals that our First Nationspeople use for seasons and stuff
like that and how.
It's just completely out ofwhack.
AJ (30:51):
That was a very rousing football coach-like heading into
the game.
Clarion call there.
So you sort of saw the analogyright through to the line.
So, mate, just to close, then,of course, what music would we
go out with?
Stuart (31:03):
God you're going to ask me that question.
You know I love so much music.
I love Pink Floyd, I love NeilYoung, love the old stuff.
Yeah, I actually it wasinteresting you were talking to
someone the other day.
But I actually used to play ina band and still do.
From time to time.
I play guitar and I do enjoywriting music.
AJ (31:26):
Actually.
Have you got something you cansend me?
Stuart (31:29):
Yeah, I'll have to have a look.
I'll potentially have.
It's not great.
I actually did.
Geez, it was 10 years ago now.
My daughter actually wasstarting to go right as a
singer-songwriter before COVIDhit and she did a school
exchange back in 2015 and we didboth record a few songs at the
(31:52):
Rye in Nashville, actually juststraight acoustic.
I only did one take and it'snot perfect, but I know I've got
that somewhere.
It's called Country Cousins.
It's a song that I wrote a longtime ago, actually, when my
first child was born, and, um,it talks a bit about you can see
our stock starve, you can seeour crops die, but you can't see
(32:13):
the hardship written in oureyes, um, but yeah, it just
talks a bit about um, yeah, itmight not be the right song.
I'd like something a lot morepositive.
Lancers, why do you alwayswrite depressing songs and I go?
Isn't that what most people do?
Yeah, that's right.
AJ (32:30):
That's brilliant.
Thanks a lot, stuart.
Finally got you on.
It's been an absolute pleasureand honour, really.
I hope you clean up the award,of course, that we talked about
and, yeah, we'll see you on deckin a couple of weeks, huh.
Nah, fantastic mate, That'd begreat Cheers you on deck in a
couple of weeks.
Huh Nah, fantastic, mate,That'd be great Cheers.
That was award-winning pharmaRegenWA chair and podcast
(32:53):
subscriber, Stuart McAlpine,With great thanks to Stuart and
the rest of you generous paidsubscribers for making it
possible.
See the company you're in.
Special thanks this week toJeff Pow, Michelle McManus and
Cargill for your four years ofsupport now.
Speaking of the company you'reall in just incredible.
We'd love you to join us if youcan get some exclusive stuff
like discounts to the RegenWAconference and subsequent
(33:13):
Grounded Festival, and help keepthe show going by heading to
the website or the show notesand following the prompts.
I hope to see you at some ofthose big events or the smaller
ones around them.
Stuart did send me the music hewas talking about.
You're hearing it now.
Stuart (33:27):
There was a time when you had a Country cousin.
AJ (33:33):
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening.
Stuart (33:36):
There was a time when I thought you Understand, but you
can't understand our ways orwhat it's like.
You can see the crops die.
(33:57):
You can see the stock stove,but you can't see the hardship
written in our eyes Dying.
Spirit of the land.
(34:18):
I have a child.
I hope you love the land.
I know that some of you won'tunderstand.
You can't understand our waysor what it's like.
(34:45):
You can see the crops die, seethe stock stuff, but you can't
see the hardships written in oureyes, written in our eyes Dying
(35:11):
.
Spirit of the land.
I have a dream.
I hope you love the land.
I have a dream that one dayyou'll understand, just like the
(35:35):
country cousins of years goneby.
You can see the crops die.
You see the stock stove, butnow you see the hardships
Written in our eyes.
(35:56):
But now you see the hardshipsWritten in our eyes.
just imagine if we could be diverting some of that
capital that's going into moretraditional approaches of
agriculture into winding thatback towards more natural
solutions, how far we could go,you know, and how quickly we
could make that happen, becauseyou know the feedback I get is
(00:24):
real.
You know, um, and the feedbackthat that other you know
regenerative farmers get isreally real.
AJ (00:32):
So we know what is possible g'day anthony james here for The
RegenNarration, yourindependent, listener-supported
podcast exploring how people areregenerating the systems and
stories we live by.
(00:52):
It's fitting that my firstAussie guest back home would be
this bloke.
Stuart McAlpine is a multipleaward-winning wheatbelt farmer
over here in WA who's just beennamed a finalist in the
prestigious National Bob HawkeLandcare Award.
I've long looked forward tohaving him on the podcast,
having met him as part of thegroup that organised the first
(01:13):
major Region WA conferencestaged at Perth Stadium back in
2019.
It was my honour to be emceefor that group of people at that
conference.
Six years on, we're on the cuspof Region WA's second major
conference back at Perth Stadium, and I couldn't have said yes,
I'll be home for this quickenough when invited to be MC
(01:34):
again.
This time around, theconference will feature two days
, not one, and a full week ofsatellite events have
spontaneously gravitated to itsorbit, and this time Region WA
is running its conference,having become an independent,
not-for-profit organisation withStuart as its chair.
He's also been a paidsubscriber of this podcast for
(01:54):
nearly four years, so you canimagine how humbling that is.
Ideally, of course, we'd be atthe farm, but given we've just
got home from a big journey withthe pod and given the
conference, satellite events andaward announcement are just a
couple of weeks away now, wethought we'd jump online for a
quick yarn to help gear up forthis potentially pivotal moment
(02:15):
in time.
G'day, stuart, how are you,mate?
Good mate, how are you?
Stuart (02:21):
Oh, still trying to get my brain working again after a
nice five weeks holiday.
Been a long while since thatholiday and I yeah, I'm still in
holiday mode a little bitreally.
AJ (02:33):
I wondered, if that might be true.
Stuart (02:34):
No, we had a great trip up through the Northern
Territory.
We travelled across on theNorthern, the Great Central Road
, which is a bit rough in places, with our off-road caravan.
So there's a group of four ofus that do this every couple of
years and, yeah, I actuallyhaven't had a holiday probably
for about a year and a half,which I'm normally pretty good
like that.
But it's just the way it'sworked out with staff and
(02:56):
getting to the back end of mycareer, I suppose, and sort of
making sure you're around, andit probably wasn't probably the
best of times to be away thistime because we've had really
good rain, but just always greatto get out on country and see
the beautiful landscapes andjust you know the biodiversity
and just, yeah, just do somewalking and just see the
(03:19):
beautiful rock formations anddifferent plants and animals and
and yeah, but then you know, toget to um, to get to kakadu and
sort of, have relayed sort offrom the tour on the yellow
river.
That you know, you know bringsback to reality, that you know
we're facing this period ofuncertainty where all the
(03:39):
natural um signals that theindigenous people have, you know
, for seasons and stuff likethat, are just chaotic, like
they're just completely, noteven just a little bit out of
sync, like they're just way outof sync, far out.
AJ (03:55):
They've been saying this for a while, huh, and it doesn't
get any like it continues.
So in in some ways I'm notsurprised to hear it, though in
other ways it's still stark tohear it.
It's like wow, we're really alllearning anew.
I mean, it still informs us,obviously, if 40,000, 60,000
years will still inform yourapproach and your ability to
notice.
But wow, yeah, differentcontext now.
Stuart (04:17):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it shows adaptability on one hand,
which is what I guess naturalprocesses are all about.
It's about improving resiliencefor change.
So that's the positive side ofit.
But the negative side of it is,you know, if you're looking at
extreme changes or events, youknow what potential does that
(04:42):
have to sort of diminishbiodiversity, and then you know
what potential does that have tosort of diminish biodiversity
and then you know, over time,diminish that resilience to sort
of you know, extreme climaticevents.
AJ (04:52):
Yeah, I hear you.
It's actually a good enoughsegue, as any Stuart, to go
where I really wanted to start,which is in recognition and
congratulations, mate, for beinga finalist in the prestigious
National Bob Hawke LandcareAward.
So you're one of threefinalists, the winner to be
announced in a few weeks.
Is there a particular angle ofrecognition that it's bringing
(05:13):
to the work that you have doneover decades, or is it sort of a
general purview?
Stuart (05:18):
Yeah, I'd like to think it was probably more of a
general piece around, sort ofyou know natural solutions and I
suppose a lot of my work inrecent times has, you know, has
been around the soil health andthe soil microbiome on the farm.
But you know a lot of stuffaround sort of setting up
community research groups, youknow, with the Levy Group, and
(05:42):
then regional repopulationinitiatives sort of through the
Shire of Dohwongi, which hasbeen also been highly successful
, and yeah, I guess I've alwaysbeen.
I mean, we run businesses,obviously, and businesses have
to be profitable, but we alsohave to live in communities and
those communities have to have ahealthy environment and
ecosystem to live in.
(06:02):
You know, to be part of andyeah, I still think that's my
greatest passion is people andcommunity and the ecosystem,
because at the end of the day,that's what gives you that
purpose in life and that's thefeel good bit.
You know, the business is greatbecause that gives you the I
don't know financial capital, Isuppose, to enjoy some of those
(06:23):
things.
But sometimes it takes it awayfrom you as well.
You, when you get caught up inthe business and sort of you
sort of don't get that balanceright, of sort of, yeah, sort of
contributing to society in abusiness sense, but also, you
know, that's only one part ofwhere you can make a major
contribution to society part ofwhere you can make a major
(06:45):
contribution to society.
AJ (06:48):
I always thought that business and money for that
matter in general are means tothe end rather than the end
itself.
And the end itself in this caseis life in its various forms
that you've outlined.
Yeah, well done, mate.
I believe the prize is quitebig too.
So good luck on multiple fronts.
On that one, I'm curious justto delve a little further into
your story.
We won't do it at length today,we'll do it another time,
because everything you justmentioned I'd love to do a whole
(07:10):
chunk on too.
But I'm wondering was there aparticular moment of
transformation in your journeythat you recall perhaps more
than others?
Stuart (07:20):
Yeah, it's a good question and I guess life is a
journey and there's lots oftrigger points along that
journey.
I mean, I've always lovednature.
My parents have always had lotsof wildflowers, you know.
You understand the greatwildflowers in Western Australia
, and we're lucky enough to havesome remnant vegetation on my
(07:41):
farm that my parents protectedand were very proud of.
You know they tried to recreatesome of that and dad was quite
innovative in that space, but hewas also a pioneer in sort of
agriculture, high rates offertilizer and productivity as
well, you know, on the lightersoils, you know, with legumes
(08:01):
and then nitrogen, and so youknow sort of that double-edged
sword and then, I guess, sort ofgrowing up there's a picture
that I use that shows and I'vejust been down there this
morning actually and there's acouple of swans down there where
you know when I was you knowI'm nearly 63 and you know when
I was sub 10 or you know four orfive you know we had bottle
(08:23):
brushes going around some of thelakes down in the valley system
and you know you would seeswans from time to time.
And of course we've lost mostof that country to salinity and
that has been a journey of bothmine and my father's to try and
sort of bring it back to thatand it's still a long way off,
but you know we're working at it.
But he got sick when I was atboarding school and got
(08:46):
diagnosed with leukemia and umit was, that was 1977, so it was
a long time ago, in the earlydays of chemotherapy and stuff
like that.
So he chose to.
He had a friend that had beendiagnosed with cancer and chose
to sort of go down the sort ofvegetables and dietary type
stuff.
He just had juices for a while,but I guess that sort of was a
(09:10):
nice.
He actually lived for 20 years,by the way, so he was given 18
months to live and I don't thinkhe would have made 18 months
actually like he got really sickquite quickly.
I made that decision then to gofarming.
I don't know whether I wouldhave been a farmer and I don't
regret that decision.
I was the oldest and I wantedto come home, so that was the
first trigger point that broughtme back to the land, even
(09:31):
though I loved the land and Iloved the community.
You know I love just having youknow back then there were so
many more people around in ourlittle communities and there was
a lot more picnics, you knowthis time of the year and you
know sort of bush type stuff,where everyone came together, um
, and of course there's very fewfarmers left now in in what fed
(09:51):
that sort of back then.
But so there it was an ideallyyou know growing up fantastic.
You know we were veryprofitable because we were
making money out of theextraction of that natural
fertility um, as degraded aswhat it is naturally in West
Australia, and did it very good.
But I suppose I came home, tookover the farm and, you know,
(10:13):
started the Levy Group up, whichis, you know, still is today
one of the premium grower groups, attracted a lot of research to
a lot of isolated area butrealised pretty soon that we
were just throwing more and moremoney at the conventional
system to continue to make itwork.
And we probably were and stilldoes to this day.
(10:34):
You know it still works.
But the amount of capital thatneeds to be thrown at it to
replace that, those naturalsystems as they disappear, is
Iisation, which is not healthyand it still exists, we've still
(10:58):
seen it.
And trying to organise thisconference, you know I would
have hoped we would have hadmore sort of sponsorship support
from mainstream agriculture andactually a lot of areas of
agriculture, and so it's stillthere, but it's not poles apart.
You know like we can actually,you know, go through a hybrid
system as apart.
You know like we can actually,you know, go through a hybrid
system as we, you know, learnagain to trust sort of nature
(11:21):
and what it can provide for us,if we, you know, if we hero it
and embrace it and work with it,rather than try and replace it
with artificial inputs and stufflike that to sort of deal with
the collateral damage.
It's not that we can't, youknow, and look, you know it's
still growing strongly, but itis having a large impact on our
(11:45):
communities because theycontinue to get bigger, because
it's really been driven byeconomies of scale more than
anything else, and the cost ofthat technology does make it
pretty fragile in a variableclimate.
So, um, so that that was atrigger point because we had a
focus on soil biology within thelevy group and that was where I
(12:07):
was first introduced to uhbiostimulants and, in particular
, biostimulant out of Canada,and we came out of a drought in
2002 and 2005 and, sorry, 2006and 2007,.
And a lot of people wereputting their workers off and I
thought, well, if anyone's goingto go and do some off-farm work
(12:28):
, that probably should be me,because I'll come back and we
tried this biostimulant andbecause I obviously was the
co-founder of the Levy Group andI'd done my first stint as
president and I was actuallychairing the R&D committee when
this product came to us and Ijust thought it was probably a
snake oil product and whatever.
But anyway, we trialled it andthis guy wouldn't go away and
(12:52):
the longer, the more we chatted,the more sense he was making
from the bit that I knew aboutsoil biology at that stage and
always understood that it wasthe third component of soil
health that we just neglected orfound it all a bit too hard.
So I trialled some on the farmand then I was given the
opportunity to go around andevaluate the product across
(13:14):
Western Australia where otherfarmers had trialled it, because
I had that sort of bit ofbackground with research as well
, with the Lebe Group and thenultimately around Australia, and
I just continued to see justsome amazing things happening in
the soil and in the rhizosphereof the plants and I thought,
hmm, I can't be the first personto see this, surely?
(13:35):
So, you know, I actually did abit more research and found this
whole sort of world out therethat perhaps the forgotten part
of soil health, you know, aroundsoil biology and more natural
systems.
And yeah, since then I've justlearned to trust it more and
more.
And, and you know, I thinkfarmers are some of the greatest
(13:55):
observational scientists thatwe have.
Like, we're out there, you know, and, um, you know, I think
farmers are some of the greatestobservational scientists that
we have.
Like, we're out there, you know, and if you pay attention and
observe what's happening in yourlandscape, you know you can see
a lot of things.
And yeah, and I guess, if youlook at the joy over the years,
you know I've been, because I'vebeen a pioneer sort of in this
soil biology space, you know,for you know 20 odd years or
more, you know I've had theopportunity to be part of sort
(14:16):
of in this soil biology space.
You know, for you know 20-oddyears or more, you know I've had
the opportunity to be part ofsort of the early soil biology
initiatives with GRDC and I goto the University of Sydney
every year to sort of present onsoil biology to their soil
biology masterclass and I getthe opportunity to see some of
this science now coming through.
That backs up some of theobservations that I've been
(14:37):
making for a long time.
I don't know how many times Ilisten to your podcast and hear
you know other farmers orscientists from around the world
sort of talk about things andgo, yeah, that's what I formed
in my head as well.
You know that's how I believeit to be, so it's always good to
get out.
For me and, you know, for theHaggerty's a lot of us like.
(15:00):
It's great to come togetherwith people around the globe at
times, that that you can talk tohonestly at a different level,
because it takes a lot ofbackground knowledge to get to
where I am at the moment andit's not something that you can
sort of just explain to peopleyou know in period of time?
AJ (15:19):
So, with the conference, stuart, why now and why did you
and the broader Region WA teamdecide to go doubly as big as
last time, six years ago, andconnect with so many more people
that we've seen a whole week ofother events sort of spin out
of it?
What was behind it and how didit sort of germinate?
Yeah, I guess.
Stuart (15:41):
RegenWA as an organisation has been very
successful in supporting, youknow, a lot of membership from
not only farmers but fromsociety as well, and we felt
that the time was right to sortof, you know, go back to Optus,
(16:03):
where it began in the early days, and really try and sort of
build a conference that sort oflinked all those people together
, you know, with soil, health,food security and human
wellbeing and theinterconnectedness of that, I
suppose.
But, you know, try and do it ina in a welcoming way, because I
think one of the things that weknow is that we need to build
(16:30):
food systems that move into thisdirection.
Because of that, you know, Ihave a very strong belief that
the commodity, commoditized foodthat we're producing is just
not providing us with the, withthe nourishment that we need,
and I think a lot of thatscience is is evolving and
coming together quite nicely.
But you know also the decliningsort of health of our ecosystems
(16:53):
and of our human well-being,not not just um physically and
as a as a consequence of thefood that we eat, but also as a
as a response to theenvironments that we're living
in and perhaps even you know,the, the response to, you know,
being farmers globally.
We, you know, we know thatmental health is is a huge issue
(17:14):
in agriculture globally as well, because of some of the
pressures that farmers have todeal with.
So we really wanted to try andbring together a conference that
was hopefully could encouragemore mainstream people to come
together because we really needto scale this up.
Come together because we reallyneed to scale this up.
(17:37):
You know, at the end of the day, if there's a handful of people
doing this globally, then it'snot really enough to have the
impact sort of across all thosesectors that we desire.
So I guess that was the realpurpose is yeah, we're sort of
pretty firm on that really.
AJ (17:51):
So I wonder, Stuart, out of all that then, as the rubbers
hit the road and we're two weeksout, what's exciting you most
about it?
Stuart (17:58):
Yeah, look, I think we have managed to pull together
some people from the humanhealth aspect, some stuff around
food quality, some of theframework around what is
regenerative agriculture andsome of the framework you know
around what is regenerativeagriculture and some of the
dialogue around that.
(18:19):
And then, you know, I'm prettyexcited, you know, some of the
science.
We've got biomakers coming toaround sort of you know, how we
bring some of the new tech stuffinto regenerative agriculture
and looking at sort of the DNAfootprint and sort of how
practices that we might orproducts that we might use may
(18:39):
impact that.
So that I think one of the wayswe have to bring more of
mainstream agriculture is, youknow, is to showcase you know,
to have the real evidence andthe cutting edge science to to
bring the rest of them along.
I think, yeah, and I'm quiteexcited that there are some
tools and some knowledge.
(19:00):
I think that if we can applythat you know more, we can
actually bring more people tosort of look at, you know,
bringing more natural systemsand natural solutions back into
the way that we farm.
AJ (19:12):
I see a focus, too on really extending out into the people
that aren't the growers as well.
Huh, Trying to help, to bringus all together on this stuff,
and that looks particularlyexciting to me.
I mean, I think of some of thepeople who were even on the
conference bill that are lookingto do that in various ways
themselves just be part of thatconnective infrastructure, as
(19:33):
you've done so much over theyears too.
Is that something that'sstanding out to you as well?
Stuart (19:38):
Oh, absolutely.
I was fortunate enough to go toCOP28 a couple of years ago in
Dubai and it is Like we, asfarmers, can't do this alone.
You know we need to bring thefinance sector along.
We need to bring the financesector along, we need to bring
government policy along.
We need to bring the consumeralong and show them that you
(19:59):
know that this food is worthchasing.
You know, just to get thatlittle bit extra done.
You know you go out on countrya lot to do your interviews and
I think one of the problems thatI see is there's a lot of good
intention out there, but I thinkuntil you get out onto country
and see the good and the bad,you know the bad, I guess, shows
(20:22):
us that we need to do better.
But by getting out there, Ithink there's a truer
understanding of what's required.
So, but we can't do this alone.
But we can't do this alone.
We need to do this all together, because farmers can't make
these changes without thefinance sector being on board.
(20:43):
We can't do it withoutsupportive policies from
government.
Move towards a food system thatactually does work, you know,
better with the environment andhopefully produce and
demonstrate the value of foodthat is produced sort of with
the microbiome.
(21:04):
I think you know, when you lookat a lot of the advances in
modern-day agriculture, you knowjust about every one of those
solutions now will have asentence about sort of working
with the human microbiome.
And you know the humanmicrobiome is a result of, of
the microbiome that we grow ourfood in and what we live in.
(21:25):
So the transference of thatmicrobiome in in food quality
nutrition to to us, directly orthrough animals, is is really
really important.
So a lot of work to be done.
But, um, we just need to beable to introduce more farmers
(21:45):
globally to this.
And, of course, we know we seea lot of the big food producers
of the world um, you know,moving more towards sort of
demands for more regenerativefood as well.
Now, you know we've got to makesure that that's genuine and
not greenwashing.
But so what we really wanted todo was try and get a really
(22:06):
inclusive conference togetherthat was welcoming of all people
to come along andnon-threatening really.
AJ (22:15):
I so hear you about getting out on country for that
appreciation and in all mannerof respects, and I see the
Governor got out to theHaggerty's Place, given that
they're our West Australians ofthe Year this year and the
Governor will introduce thisconference too.
So I wonder, stuart, if youwere to venture into and perhaps
you have a vision for whatmight really come out of the
(22:36):
conference and I guess, with allthe rest that's going to happen
around it in a couple of weeks,if we come out the other side,
what can you imagine?
Stuart (22:45):
yeah, well, I would like to see a way where all facets
of of of food you know, the foodsystem, or the supply chain for
one of the bed right the waythrough the consumer truly do
work together in a in a way thatis truly collaborative and
(23:09):
collective, you know, to to toget the outcomes, because it's
so important that we, we buildtrust.
I think one of the One of thenegative side effects to
capitalism is this you know,everyone's in it for their own,
you know, and everyone's tryingto eke out, you know, their part
(23:31):
of the economy, and theargument has been well, that
keeps Atlanta mean and, you know, test it out, but it hasn't
been particularly conducive totrust, particularly conducive to
trust.
And I think, you know, if youlook at the food system, with
some strong, you know,domination of the coals and
woolies, a lot of that value inthe supply chain has been
(23:53):
transferred over time, you know,within power to that, yeah, and
I mean, look, consumers, youcould argue, have perhaps ended
up with food prices that aremore affordable, but are they
more nutritious and are theymore better for it?
And has it provided us withfood that is the right food that
we should be eating?
AJ (24:14):
Yes, and then are we paying the price in other ways, with
health and environment andemergencies.
Stuart (24:20):
Yeah.
So I would like to think thatout of it we can actually get a
more holistic approach to foodproduction and the way we do it,
which is, you know, harkingback to regenerative systems.
Like there's so much in what wedo that is common.
(24:41):
Like farmers do a lot ofregenerative stuff, like I don't
know of farmers that don't wantto do the right thing by the
environment.
They just don't know how to doit.
And you know, quite often theycan't do that because they're on
this treadmill-type system aswell, which makes it really hard
to change.
But I do believe that weunderstand the system a lot
(25:04):
better now and can explain it alot better, and we could design
demonstration systems or wecould communicate that much,
much better than what we havedone in the past.
And inevitably we're going totransition.
You know it's always atransition from what you're
(25:25):
doing to a new point over time.
It's not, you know, shut thegate and we're just doing it
completely the other way.
That doesn't really work oftenthat well either, unless you've
got some, you know, significantcapital to do that that's.
AJ (25:39):
I think that's really well said the way you articulated it
then, and I and the treadmillmetaphor, and I think that's
true of, again, broader sectorsof society, in that I find, even
in the podcast, that whetherI'm talking to a farmer or I'm
talking to an Indigenous person,or talking to a business person
or whatever, there is a well,there's a relationality, there's
(26:00):
a relevance in each of whatwe're trying to do, in each of
our areas and each of our places, because it's that thing.
It's how do you get off thattreadmill when everything's
being geared to that one trackwith such certainty and so much
backing and so many years and somuch investment of different
kinds, all that sort of stuff?
(26:20):
And how do we help each otheroff that onto different tracks?
And maybe it's not even atreadmill next time.
No, maybe it's akin to walkingthrough the beautiful country
that you described at the start.
So that inspires me, I think,and it's a universalising thing.
In that sense too, I reckon weare all in that.
Stuart (26:40):
But that's perfect, aj, and really actually thanks for
bringing me back on trackbecause I look at what I've
achieved and other regenerfeedback that I've had from you
know some of my produce am Idoing it anywhere near its
(27:08):
capability?
Absolutely not.
You know, absolutely not.
Like I think we've justscratched the surface of what is
potential.
But for a pretty small business, you know, trying to sort of go
through that decision makingand and do my own r&d and do
testing and and take it further.
(27:30):
Like just imagine if we couldbe diverting some of that
capital that's going into moretraditional approaches of
agriculture into winding thatback towards more natural
solutions.
How far we could go, you know,and how quickly we could make
(27:51):
that happen.
Because you know the feedback Iget is real, you know, and the
feedback that other you knowregenerative farmers get is
really real.
So we know what is possible.
But why would we as society beputting all our eggs in one
(28:11):
basket?
Because, let's be franklyhonest, we still are Like it's
big tokenistic the amount ofmoney that's being invested from
our main research bodies.
I mean, there's always talkabout it around the edges, but I
think they really struggle withthe whole, you know, like it's
the whole.
That's important, and I've beenusing this analogy a bit lately
(28:35):
, and it's okay.
But look at your favouritefootball side, right?
We love sport in Australia,right?
AJ (28:43):
I'm partial to these analogies.
Yes.
Stuart (28:44):
Yep, and we love the AFL .
But, right, I'm partial tothese analogies.
Yes, yep, and we, we love theafl, and but any, look, it goes
for any sporting group.
And if you think aboutagriculture as as a footy side,
you know, we know that if we goout and just buy the marquee
players, we're not, we're notgoing to come home with the
premiership cup.
So we know that the rest of theteam's important, right, but
it's the ground that they playon, it's it's the doctors, it's
(29:07):
the nutrition, it's it's thestrappers.
If we're strapping, I'm wrong,you know.
And then they've got to,they've got to sell their team
to society to make them want tosupport them.
Now all of those go intosuccessful side.
Now that's dumbing it down alot from the hole.
That you and I understand, butit's the same.
And and I get frustrated, whenwe've been very, very good in
(29:31):
agriculture, finding the, themarquee players, if, if you want
to call it that, you know then's, the p's, the k's, you know,
and we've, we've, we've mademoney out of leveraging them.
You know, with some of thatbackground, fertility and
natural capital that's been leftover um from for forever, or
from some of our pasturesituations.
But you know something thatmight only be 0.001 of the
(29:56):
equation.
If you disregard that, itbecomes a problem ultimately,
like in the footy side if you'vegot the strapper that's
strapping the legs wrong or notmaking the right diagnosis, your
players are going to startgetting injured right.
From what I understand, nothingultimately is more important
than anything else.
(30:16):
It may seem to play a biggerrole, but unless we hero the,
the whole of the system, theneventually it fails or is not as
good as.
And why is that so?
And it doesn't matter.
If I'm doing what is the bestthing today, nature will always
want me to build more resilienceinto that, so it will always be
(30:38):
testing what we do.
Um, you know, like the changesin weather patterns and the
signals that our First Nationspeople use for seasons and stuff
like that and how.
It's just completely out ofwhack.
AJ (30:51):
That was a very rousing football coach-like heading into
the game.
Clarion call there.
So you sort of saw the analogyright through to the line.
So, mate, just to close, then,of course, what music would we
go out with?
Stuart (31:03):
God you're going to ask me that question.
You know I love so much music.
I love Pink Floyd, I love NeilYoung, love the old stuff.
Yeah, I actually it wasinteresting you were talking to
someone the other day.
But I actually used to play ina band and still do.
From time to time.
I play guitar and I do enjoywriting music.
AJ (31:26):
Actually.
Have you got something you cansend me?
Stuart (31:29):
Yeah, I'll have to have a look.
I'll potentially have.
It's not great.
I actually did.
Geez, it was 10 years ago now.
My daughter actually wasstarting to go right as a
singer-songwriter before COVIDhit and she did a school
exchange back in 2015 and we didboth record a few songs at the
(31:52):
Rye in Nashville, actually juststraight acoustic.
I only did one take and it'snot perfect, but I know I've got
that somewhere.
It's called Country Cousins.
It's a song that I wrote a longtime ago, actually, when my
first child was born, and, um,it talks a bit about you can see
our stock starve, you can seeour crops die, but you can't see
(32:13):
the hardship written in oureyes, um, but yeah, it just
talks a bit about um, yeah, itmight not be the right song.
I'd like something a lot morepositive.
Lancers, why do you alwayswrite depressing songs and I go?
Isn't that what most people do?
Yeah, that's right.
AJ (32:30):
That's brilliant.
Thanks a lot, stuart.
Finally got you on.
It's been an absolute pleasureand honour, really.
I hope you clean up the award,of course, that we talked about
and, yeah, we'll see you on deckin a couple of weeks, huh.
Nah, fantastic mate, That'd begreat Cheers you on deck in a
couple of weeks.
Huh Nah, fantastic, mate,That'd be great Cheers.
That was award-winning pharmaRegenWA chair and podcast
(32:53):
subscriber, Stuart McAlpine,With great thanks to Stuart and
the rest of you generous paidsubscribers for making it
possible.
See the company you're in.
Special thanks this week toJeff Pow, Michelle McManus and
Cargill for your four years ofsupport now.
Speaking of the company you'reall in just incredible.
We'd love you to join us if youcan get some exclusive stuff
like discounts to the RegenWAconference and subsequent
(33:13):
Grounded Festival, and help keepthe show going by heading to
the website or the show notesand following the prompts.
I hope to see you at some ofthose big events or the smaller
ones around them.
Stuart did send me the music hewas talking about.
You're hearing it now.
Stuart (33:27):
There was a time when you had a Country cousin.
AJ (33:33):
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening.
Stuart (33:36):
There was a time when I thought you Understand, but you
can't understand our ways orwhat it's like.
You can see the crops die.
(33:57):
You can see the stock stove,but you can't see the hardship
written in our eyes Dying.
Spirit of the land.
(34:18):
I have a child.
I hope you love the land.
I know that some of you won'tunderstand.
You can't understand our waysor what it's like.
(34:45):
You can see the crops die, seethe stock stuff, but you can't
see the hardships written in oureyes, written in our eyes Dying
(35:11):
.
Spirit of the land.
I have a dream.
I hope you love the land.
I have a dream that one dayyou'll understand, just like the
(35:35):
country cousins of years goneby.
You can see the crops die.
You see the stock stove, butnow you see the hardships
Written in our eyes.
(35:56):
But now you see the hardshipsWritten in our eyes.
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