Life, Death, and Other Miracles: With ‘The King’ David Marsh

This part of my conversation with regenerative agriculture legend, David Marsh, has stayed close since we recorded it at his place back in March 2024. In fact, when I first thought about launching the new series Vignettes from the Source, this passage was front of mind.

Welcome to the 5th Vignette in the series that features some of the unforgettable, transformative and often inexplicable moments my guests have shared over the years. 

This ten minutes or so is full of such moments, moments that power David’s enormous legacy. It is part of what was, fittingly, the podcast’s bicentennial episode. And that happened to be recorded days after another prominent guest, gun writer and newish farmer Sam Vincent, said this about an experience of seeing David speak: ‘it was like the king had entered the room’.

Then after the episode with David was released, I was humbled to see a listener had written this review: ‘I’ve listened to thousands of hours of podcasts and never commented. I feel compelled to say this was simply beautiful.’

The land was singing too.

If you’d like to hear or revisit this conversation in full, head to episode 200 – ‘The Land Does It For You’ (with a few photos on that web page too).

Chapter markers & transcript.

Originally recorded 10 March 2024.

Title slide: David & AJ ahead of this conversation (pic: Olivia Cheng).

See more photos on the original episode web page linked above, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener via the links below.

Music:

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

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Episode Transcript

David (00:00):
And I mean my father used to talk to people at the drop
of a hat, whether he knew themor not.
My kids are a bit embarrassedabout the way Mary and I do that
, I think.
But you have these amazingconversations.

AJ (00:14):
Well, speaking of which I joked about the title of your
upcoming book.

David (00:19):
Yeah, but you've got one.
Yeah.
Well, I didn't actually tellyou what that was all about,
that thing, but when Matthewdied, which was on the eve of
Anzac Day in 2007, he was 21,.
He had a friend in town whothey used to try and outright

(00:39):
each other.
They'd do some writing aboutany topic they liked.
It was on a blog.
I didn't even know what a blogwas then, but you became an
expert.
I found out about it later.
But anyway, sean and Matthewwere sort of like a literary
dueling banjo.

AJ (00:55):
Not a bad way to do it, yeah .

David (00:56):
And anyway, sean went looking on the internet to see
whether Matthew had writtenanything about his life and he
came across this bit of writingcalled Life, death and Other
Miracles, and it was about himtalking about how he became
reconciled to his own mortalityReally and he was only probably

(01:19):
16 then, I think and part of itwas about when he was in
hospital, when he had the brainabscess and that he was scared
of dying young.
But then he realised that hebecame reconciled to that.
But he told the story about howhe was in the children's

(01:39):
hospital and he had to go for aCAT scan, which often happened,
and he had to have nothing toeat for a certain amount of time
and he'd organised for thesenurses to bring him a Vegemite
sandwich at five o'clock in themorning and they didn't turn up
and he got a bit stroppy aboutit.
And then he found out a coupleof days later that the reason
they hadn't delivered was thatthe Chinese boy in the room next

(02:02):
to him had died.
And he said I've never felt thedisgust I felt with myself for
feeling for what I'd said tothese wonderful girls.
Anyway.
So this went on and he talkedabout various aspects that had

(02:22):
happened in his life when he hadthought about death and his own
.
But he said this is one thinghe said I think I can repeat it.
He said I'm not aware of havinga particularly sad or unhappy
life.
He said I think that has fallenmore on my parents.

(02:46):
You know, we got that on theeve of his funeral and it was
just so comforting in a way toknow that he'd, because we'd
always.
It's a real dilemma for peoplethat have got a child that's
critically unwell.
You know how much do you tellthem?

(03:06):
Because I mean, we didn't nottell him.
We told him what was physicallyhappening with his heart and
how it was different, but wedidn't get into how long he was
going to live, because nobodyknows the answer to that one.
But I think if you, you canprobably say too much and it

(03:28):
just might dash their hopes.

AJ (03:30):
Yeah, yeah.

David (03:31):
I mean I'm not advising others not to do what they think
is right.
I mean we always did what wethought was right, guided by
Mary's instinct, and like, forexample, when he had the brain
abscess, we rushed him we wereon holidays when that happened
and we rushed him up to LismoreHospital to have this CAT scan

(03:54):
and he had the scan and then,you know, the paediatrician
called us in and he said I thinkyour son's got a very
aggressive tumor and he's onlygot a few days to live, crikey,
really, yeah, that absolutelyhit us like a ton of bricks.
But then we both felt that ifthat was the case, he should

(04:14):
know about it, because he mightwant to say something to us or
who knows what.
Whether or not that was theright thing to do, I don't know,
but we and Alice, his sister,were on his bed in this
emergency room with a curtainaround us, and we told him and
he did exactly what any of uswould do.
He howled and wailed andcarried on like we all would and

(04:35):
in about a minute he wasaccompanying us, you know.

AJ (04:41):
Extraordinary In that way, david, his legacy his legacy
seems to be powering yours, yeahstrength, absolutely.

David (04:53):
But getting back to this proto-book that you've mentioned
, Nudging it along.
One of the things that I've saidin it in regard to Matthew is
that you know when he died, youknow that's a whole other deal.
You know, grieving for a child,that's what nobody wants, but

(05:16):
no one can take it away from you.
You have to confront it and youknow we were falling apart.
There's no question about it.
We thought we were alright, butno, we could hardly get out of
bed and the people in Booroohave fed us for months.
So you know that was awonderful thing.
But you can't expect anyone tounderstand what that feels like.

(05:38):
We had known all his life thathe probably wasn't going to live
a long life, but knowing thatmade absolutely no difference at
the time of his death.
No, that's right.
It just completely floors you.
My heart was aching.
I thought I was having a heartattack, but it was just.

(06:00):
I was aching for him, but yeah,so I was writing about that in
this chapter, about Matthew, theend of Matthew's life and then
after it.
And you know, a lot of the timewhen you're grieving and a lot
of people, I think, feel this.
Everyone wants to say somethingprofound and wonderful to you

(06:23):
or let you know that they'rethinking of you, which is so
wonderful and uplifting, but atthat moment you're in this
numbed state because your bodyproduces all these
adrenaline-like substances thatput you into this numbed state.
So you can actually get throughit and you do find yourself
comforting those who are tryingto comfort you a lot.

(06:44):
That is just, I think, socommon.
But I drew a parallel with youknow, over time I used to hate
it when people would say, oh,time will heal.
I really didn't like that, youknow, because the thing that we
found most painful was this slowebb of time that took you
further away from the last timeyou held him in your arms.

(07:05):
You know that was so painful.
But you know it is actuallyright to say that over time the
tsunamis that are coming at youearly days close together and
high, gradually become furtherapart and lower, and then you
learn to.
You don't get over it at all,but you do learn to cope with

(07:27):
another reality.
But some people that you hopedwould do something for you were
unable to and it wasn't.
I very quickly came to the viewthat it wasn't a strike against
them at all, because I reviewedmy own performance when people
had had tragedies and I'd writethem a letter and say things and
I'd think God, that reallywouldn't have been that helpful.

(07:48):
But you know, we all do thebest we can.
Well, that's an important tenetthere.
So what I was getting to, though, was that, over time, we began
to heal.
The landscape was starting toheal as well, and it was sort of
a parallel thing that thehealing landscape helped us heal
.
You know, that was just soimportant.

AJ (08:11):
Do you feel like recalling on that, that note in a sense,
what you told us at the top ofthe hill?

David (08:18):
What was that?

AJ (08:19):
I've forgotten.
A couple of miracles, no less.
Oh yeah, that seemed to I don'tknow.

David (08:25):
Sing out from this land, yeah, yeah, no, that was
extraordinary, yeah about.
Like you know, I was so shockedat Matthew's death.
We were both with him when hedied and it took seconds for him
to die and I was so shockedthat I had to look at a
photograph of him to rememberwhat he looked like for a few
days.
That was just so.

(08:46):
I felt so guilty about that.
Anyway, that passed quitequickly but anyway, a month or
so, maybe six weeks, after hedied, there was a little
mulberry tree on the end of theplace down towards Boorooa, and
we all loved mulberries andMatthew loved it.
We used to go down there andpick them and get mulberry juice
all over us and make mulberrypies and those sort of things.

(09:10):
Anyway, I was down there, I wasabout to move cattle into this
paddock where this little treewas and I was walking along a
fence.
It was a very frosty morning inMay and it was a big white
frost and I was walking towardsthis little tree which had all
its leaves on, but they were allwhite with frost and I actually
you'll probably think I'm nuts,but I actually saw this happen

(09:31):
I was walking towards this treeand when I was about 20 metres
from it, all the leaves justslowly fell to the ground.
It was quite bizarre, but itmade me feel like he was around
it wasn't the only one.

AJ (09:47):
Yeah, it wasn't the only thing that happened.
No and the other time youweren't by yourself.

David (09:51):
That's right.
Yeah, we were coming back fromYonge one night and it was just
before his funeral and we'd beento see him before his funeral.
And we were coming back, maryand I, from Yonge and there's a
little bit of a rise on the wayback towards Booroo and you can,
at a certain point, you can seeAllendale, and it was late dusk

(10:14):
, nearly dark, clear sky, and aswe came over this rise where
you could see the farm, thelight, it was as though someone
turned a flashlight on the wholelandscape, lit up like pure
daylight for a split second.
I said to Mary did you see that?
Yeah, she said what was it?
We don't know what it was, butit was real.

AJ (10:37):
And you both saw it.

David (10:38):
Unbelievable, yeah.
And look, I don't think you'renecessarily going to have those
things happen all the time.
But you know, I can't explainwhy those things happened or how
, and I don't care, because theywere real and they were helpful
.
The other one that I didn'tmention then was at his funeral.

(11:00):
We had a song for Guy playingas he was being carried out of
the church, which was a bit ofmusic we all loved.
And years later maybe onlythree years ago, so that's 14
years after he died I was inBoorooa.
It was the day of his the onlythree years ago, so it's 14
years after he died.
I was in Boorooa.
It was the day of his.
The anniversary of his death,24th of April was the date, and

(11:22):
I was in town.
I was thinking about him.
I was driving around theroundabout just before I turned
out to come home and I pressedthe button on the radio in my
car and Song for Guy started onthe first note when I hit that
button.
Then it played all the wayuntil I drove into the driver's
home and then it finished.
I mean, how did that happen?

(11:44):
It was just unbelievable.

AJ (11:45):
What can you say?

David (11:48):
I have to say I was weeping as I drove into the
driver's home.
Oh, dear me.

AJ (11:52):
I love the thread from your was it your grandparents?
No, your parents falling inlove with the music, oh yeah.
And then the thread throughsome other instance of music you
mentioned and now there's.
I love that too, but that issomething, isn't it?
And I think most peoplelistening when you hear this
quite often that sort of chanceon the radio thing, don't you?

David (12:14):
Well, when you hear this quite often, that sort of chance
on the radio thing, don't you?
Yeah, well, my son in America,he couldn't come back for
Matthew's funeral and I wastalking to him and he, you know,
he was absolutely shocked, ofcourse, and he was pulled up
under a big conifer up in themountains in Aspen and he said
there's very few birds aroundhere because it's a cold desert,

(12:35):
that climate, you know.
There's very few resourcesbecause of the cold.
And he said he looked up when Iwas telling him what had
happened and he said there'sthis bald eagle in the top
branch of this tree just sittingthere.
And he said, as I finished theconversation, he saw it away.
So he had a little moment thathe wondered how it happened as

(12:58):
well.

AJ (12:59):
Thank, you, thank you.