May 14, 2025 • 42 mins
Today we continue the new series Vignettes from the Source, featuring some of the unforgettable, transformative and often inexplicable moments my guests have shared over the years.
This one is from almost five years ago, with regenerative agriculture legend, the founder of RCS Australia, Dr Terry McCosker. Terry and his family have become dear friends over those five years, but this conversation was our first at any length. And still stands as one of the most popular, and profound, on this podcast.
I commonly look at grabbing 10 or 15 minutes for these vignettes, but on this occasion, Terry and I took off straight out of the gates, and never looked back. I found the first half hour and a bit so moving, fundamental to his pioneering life, and universal in relevance. And then I just had to patch in the last few minutes together too, featuring Terry’s story about his choice of music.
If you’d like to hear or revisit the rest of this conversation, head to episode 67 – ‘Behind the Greatest Regenerative Agriculture Movement in Australia: Dr Terry McCosker on life, death and learning true power’. Along with the bonus episode. And also episode 136 (with photos on that web page) with Terry alongside brilliant wife Pam, at their home after the 30th anniversary RCS Australia international convergence eventually took place in 2022.
I hope you enjoy revisiting this one with Terry McCosker.
Originally recorded 30 July 2020 (with an intro recorded today).
Title slide: AJ & Terry after the Convergence event in 2022.
For more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener via the links below.
Music:
The first and last tune you hear is by Jeremiah Johnson.
Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.
The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
AJ (00:05):
G'day Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
listener-supported portal intothe regenerative era.
Today we continue the newseries Vignettes from the Source
, featuring some of theunforgettable, transformative
and often inexplicable momentsmy guests have shared over the
years.
This one is from almost fiveyears ago with regenerative
(00:27):
agriculture legend the founderof RCS Australia, Dr Terry
McCosker.
Terry and his family havebecome dear friends over those
five years, but thisconversation was our first at
any length and still stands asone of the most popular and
profound.
On this podcast I commonly lookat grabbing 10 or 15 minutes
for these vignettes, but on thisoccasion Terry and I took off
(00:50):
straight out of the gates anddidn't look back.
I found the first half an hourand a bit so moving, fundamental
to his pioneering life anduniversal in relevance, and then
I just had to patch in the lastfew minutes together too,
featuring Terry's choice ofmusic.
If you'd like to hear orrevisit the rest of this
conversation, I'll put a link towhat was episode 67 in the show
(01:12):
notes behind the greatestregenerative agriculture
movement in Australia, alongwith the bonus episode to that
one, and also episode 136 withTerry alongside brilliant wife
Pam at their home.
After the 30th anniversary, rAustralia International
Convergence had eventually takenplace in 2022.
(01:34):
How the reverberations continueto echo out of that gathering.
It was also the first and, sofar, last time I ever cried
introducing a conference as itsMC, relating a family story,
with Terry's permission, that heshared here.
I hope you enjoy revisitingthis special one.
Here's Terry.
(01:54):
Terry, it's great to speak withyou.
We would have been in person atthis time of year in Queensland
, save for the strange yearwe've had with your conference.
But here we are.
I probably wouldn't mindstarting with a question about
your home, actually, and justbecause you've worked with so
many other people and theirhomes and their patches of land
(02:15):
and, by extension, our sharednational estate.
But what does your patch ofland mean to you?
Terry (02:24):
It's a great question.
My little patch of land came toyou.
It's a great question.
My little patch of land cameabout by really establishing our
vision and being really clearabout that, and it's something
that we recommend strongly thatpeople do.
And Pam and I could never agreeon where we wanted to live.
She wanted sea views and Iwanted rural, and it took us a
(02:45):
while to work out we couldactually have both and that's
what we got.
So we went and bought a blockof land that had was rural but
had sea views, and then we weregoing to build a house on it.
Long story short, we eventuallygot an architect and designed
something that we wanted, and sowe did that and couldn't afford
it at the time.
(03:05):
So we just pulled up and and Iwas pretty keen on real estate,
and one Sunday night I wasreading the real estate section
of the paper and and I read thisad for a block of land and and
I said to Pam well, what do youthink of this?
You know, it just sounds reallygood.
So he said, no, no, we've madeour decisions.
You know, we'll stick with whatwe've done.
And so the next morning I rangup the real estate agent and
(03:27):
booked us in for Tuesday to goand inspect this place.
And we inspected it and Iwalked out and I said you're
gonna have to make a decision,aren't you?
And it was everything that wehad written down that we wanted
in the house, in the land inspades.
It was 30 acres instead of twoand a half.
(03:47):
It had three sheds instead ofone, all the fencing was done,
the water was in, the gardenswere done, it had a 360 degree
veranda around the house, whichwe'd been talked out of because
we couldn't afford it, and andso by friday we owned.
So we're in this piece ofparadise where we sit up at a
(04:07):
hill and we've got sea views,we've got our cattle and our
camels that run around the houseand in the paddocks just below
us and some beautiful tropicalpastures, and it's extremely
peaceful and just a beautifulspot to sit and contemplate.
AJ (04:23):
Is that where a lot of your reflection would happen?
Is it you know, on that veranda?
Terry (04:27):
Actually, surprisingly, not the veranda's too
distracting.
I tend to have a lot of my bestideas in the shower.
Believe it or not, I get a lotof brainwaves and breakthrough
thoughts in the shower, ormostly, yeah, a lot of the best
ones I've ever had.
Have uh in the shower.
Or mostly, yeah, um, a lot ofthe best ones I've ever had, um,
have been in the shower and,and that's just about being
(04:50):
relaxed, and your, uh, theknowledge is in your
subconscious and uh, you shut uplong enough for the
subconscious to send a messagethrough to you and uh, so that's
.
You know, uh, how a lot of themhave come about.
AJ (05:03):
It's fascinating, isn't it?
You're not alone there.
Indeed, I read a book calledRest a couple of years ago, and
I think the subtitle wassomething like how to be more
productive by doing less, butessentially it was charting the
science and the famous peoplethroughout history who have
essentially worked only abouthalf a day, but really
intensively, and the rest theyswitch off, which is where the
(05:31):
creativity or the breakthroughscome through.
So your 50-year legacy, Terry,of working in the space, now
your remarkable success withgraziers and farmers all over
the country, and the world forthat matter.
What does success look like?
What have you?
Terry (05:41):
seen.
Look like what have you seen?
Success to me is seeing thechange in people.
Uh, I start working with peoplewho I've never met and you meet
them at the door and whatever,and then work with them for
about a week or so and then workwith them over years after that
and over about a four-yearperiod.
The transformation in theirattitude, in their fun and and
(06:06):
joy in life, um, the, theenjoyment they're getting out of
their landscape, their, theiranimals a lot, you know their
business, um the whole thing,and that's that's success to me.
Um, and it's not about moneyand it's uh, but it's really
about the transformation inpeople and it's just, it is an
(06:26):
unbelievable privilege to beinvolved in that
transformational process inpeople's lives and I, you know,
every time I experience I can'tbelieve that I've had the
privilege of being part of thatjourney I guess you you're
working with people who havebeen in stressful situations of
one kind or another, so you mustbe seeing that transformation
(06:48):
from really doing it quite toughto then feeling like they're on
a good wicket again.
AJ (06:55):
Is that true to say?
Terry (06:56):
Yes, and I think what a lot of it is.
It's about being in control.
A lot of people, their lives,their businesses, are out of
control.
So you've got a drought andthat's out of control.
Uh, prices change and you'reout of control.
Communication's not good in thefamily and you're out of
control.
(07:16):
You don't know what yourbusiness is actually doing, so
you're out of control.
And I think that one of the thethings that we tend to do that
actually makes the difference isgiving people the tools to get
them in control of every one ofthose things.
And when you're in control, youknow how you're going to handle
(07:36):
the next drought.
You know how you're going tohandle the one you're in.
It's not that it's pleasant,but it's not a disaster because
you actually know what you'regoing to do.
And I've actually had peoplesay to me after we've sat down
and developed a brilliantdrought plan I can't wait for
the next drought to try this out.
You know, and that that's theattitude that you really need to
(07:58):
have.
I've now got the skills and thetools.
I can predict when a drought iscoming.
I know when it's over.
Those are things that you needthe tools to do that, and once
you've got those tools, you'refar more in control, and that
then tends to give you peace ofmind, and then you're able to
(08:19):
settle down and actually startto enjoy what you've got.
And actually start to enjoywhat you've got, and I think one
of the things that we teach aswell is that then be grateful
for what you do have.
So often people are focused onwhat they don't have and anxious
about that and worried about itand so on.
(08:40):
But sit down every day and justbe grateful for what you do
have.
You know, I encourage people tojust first thing in the morning
, wake up and list 20 thingsthat they're grateful for for
the day, and and sometimespeople find that hard getting to
three.
But when you insist I insistyou do three and then do another
(09:03):
three, and then do anotherthree, and by the time you get
10 or 15, they're starting toget the hang of it that there is
actually a lot of things intheir life to be grateful for.
AJ (09:15):
And I think that's also a mind switch that people start to
instead of focusing on whatthey don't have, they focus on
what they do have and enjoy thata lot more, and I think that's
a that's a really importantprocess in life actually yeah, I
instantly see the relationshipbetween the two, because you're
talking about how you can twothings really not expect things
(09:38):
to be different from the realityexample, the drought you're in
but also how you can I guessit's that old glass half full
thing where you're not alwayslooking from a position of
scarcity, you're looking from aposition of strength.
And how can you navigate therealities?
And that you're capable ofnavigating the realities that
you're immersed in.
Terry (10:00):
Yeah, I guess I've always had an abundance philosophy
rather than a scarcityphilosophy.
Most of what I've done has beenlong term.
I've always been thinking andworking, you know, years and
years ahead of where we are.
One example of that was when Iwas chairman of the Beef Expo.
(10:22):
I was chairman of Beef 97.
When I was chairman of the BeefExpo, I was chairman of Beef 97
.
And we were planning for things20 years in advance, which was
five expos in front of the onethat we were on, and we were
making decisions that actuallywere not necessarily right for
the expo that we were running,but I knew that they were right
for future ones.
(10:43):
And so I've always sort oftaken that view that we really
we need to be thinking wellahead and not just focused on
today, and doing that with anabundance mentality.
AJ (10:56):
And when you say control, I mean you're instantly saying in
terms of looking for the nextdrought, you know that drought
is going to happen in thiscountry.
So control isn't trying tocontrol the world, if you like,
or the circumstances you're in.
It's controlling what you'redoing within those circumstances
.
Terry (11:15):
That's correct, it's controlling your reaction.
So you know, it's the oldstatement it doesn't matter what
happens to you, it's how youreact to that that counts.
Whether it's a drought or aprice change or anything, all of
those things or covid19, youknow any of those things that
can go wrong in our lives, it'snot the fact that they're going
to go wrong, we they are.
(11:35):
There's all sorts of things.
Life's a journey.
It's never a straight line andand it's an opportunity to keep
learning.
Every one of these turns andtwists in in life's journey is a
learning experience.
But then it's an opportunity tokeep learning.
Every one of these turns andtwists in life's journey is a
learning experience.
But then it's how we react tothat twist.
That's really the criticalthing.
And whether that's managing aproperty, whether you're losing
(11:59):
your job at the moment withCOVID-19.
You know I was talking on aplane the other day, which is a
bit of an unusual experience atthe moment.
On Monday, you know I wastalking.
I was on a plane the other day,which is a bit of an unusual
experience at the moment.
On Monday, you know, just acouple of days ago, and I was
talking to one of the stewardsthere.
Now he'd been put off veryearly on.
As soon as he sensed that thepassengers numbers were down by
(12:22):
40 to 50 percent, he went andstarted looking for another job
and he has spent three monthsworking in a freezer just moving
, you know, packing and movingstuff around, but he's kept his
family going.
He was, he was proactive aboutthat and he's back at work again
now.
But you know he saw it coming.
(12:44):
He reacted.
He thought well, you know, I'mjust not going to sit back and
be driven to the ground by thisand went and got a job.
And it's amazing how many jobsthere are around.
You know, I was again dealingwith somebody else within the
last week and looking for aperson to live on farm and work
(13:07):
and they said we just can't findanybody.
I said how come you can't findanybody when there's supposed to
be over a million peopleunemployed?
There's something seriouslywrong when we can't find
somebody in that level ofunemployment.
Again, that comes back toattitude.
There's so much around ourattitude to life and how we
react to what's going on aroundus terry, I'm so curious about
(13:30):
where this came from in you.
AJ (13:32):
I know that as a young bloke in your even early to mid-20s I
think an already sort of a bitof a prodigy.
From what I've read, charliesays you did the equivalent of
three phds, no less, on your onyour work in the northern
territory, which really set upyour life's work.
But you also married Pam, yourlife partner, started a family.
So ostensibly this wonderfulopening time in your life, but
(13:54):
then struck by tragedy also withthe accidental death of your
young son.
So I know you're talking frompersonal experience and values
forged in that experience.
But particularly as a young guyexperiencing such tragedy, how
did you harness that towards theoutlook you're talking about
here?
Terry (14:16):
The day Sean died, I vowed that his death would not
be in vain, and it drove me veryhard for the next.
It was nearly 25 years before Igot over it and realised what I
was doing and I drove everybodyaround me just as hard.
So I wasn't a really goodperson to work for for quite a
long time because of that drive,and I guess I've not ever
(14:42):
forgotten that vow and I hopethat what I've achieved has
helped at least make up for theloss of his life.
AJ (14:55):
Yeah, later on, of course, you're also to hit what you've
called the valley of death,which you work with people on
extensively, where you werealmost 40 and broke.
Terry (15:06):
You know, going broke in retrospect was actually a good
experience.
It gives you a realunderstanding when you're
working with people that areunder pressure, when you're
working with people that mayhave debt or family pressures
and all sorts of pressures um,you know what that's like and
(15:29):
you know what they're goingthrough and it helps you provide
some advice that might beuseful in dealing with that.
And I think all of thoseexperiences from the you know,
from Sean's death right throughto going broke In fact, just
recently I've gone, I've listedall the mistakes I've made in
(15:54):
business in life and all thesuccesses I've had in business
in life and and then sat downand looked at what were the
causes of the failures and whatwere the causes of the successes
.
All the successes, the causeswere the same and in all the
failures the causes were thesame but completely opposite.
I was always very goalorientated and when I was doing
(16:18):
the research in the NorthernTerritory, that was very, very
goal orientated.
We set out to to solve enormousnumber of problems and and
solved every one and a heap thatwe found on the way that we
didn't actually know existed.
My big mistake after that wasand this was the late 80s and
the bond era and all of thatsort of stuff in Australia, and
(16:42):
so I set a goal to make amillion dollars, and I in that
process, then I lost everythingthat we set out to achieve and
it wasn't until a few yearsafter that we started again with
absolutely nothing we had.
We had an old car, we had ourclothes and I still had my
family, and that was probablythe most important thing and we
(17:04):
started again then developingRCS as it is today.
And it's interesting.
You know, when you've gotnothing to lose, you're likely
to take on things that arecompletely different to that if
you have something to lose.
So financially we hadabsolutely nothing to lose, so
we just started on somethingthat was brand new and
(17:26):
completely different.
AJ (17:28):
At the top.
Your description of success wasvery much based on the things
you're describing right there,and I can imagine the things you
were learning through.
Those difficult times wouldtest your relationship, your
marriage.
Yet you guys have been lifepartners.
What was the secret to thatsuccess, if I can use that word
(17:50):
in this context?
Terry (17:52):
I think there's a number of things.
Certainly, pam's patience isone of them.
Patience is one of them.
Um, she's been a brilliantmother and has raised our
children to be wonderful adultsthat I'm very, very proud of.
And I wasn't there for a lot oftheir upbringing.
I was traveling and doing allsorts of things.
Um, that's the first.
(18:12):
The second one was when youhave, when you lose a child,
marriages will go one of twoways you will either split up or
you'll get closer together.
And the day Sean died within Ihad to break the news to Pam we
jumped in the car, we were onthe station and we just drove
(18:33):
out and went to a littlewaterfall.
We just sat by that waterfalland we just talked and we
decided there and then thatneither of us would ever blame
the other for what happened, andthat was a massive decision.
It's so easy in thosecircumstances to try and figure
(18:55):
out somebody or something toblame, and I guess we must've
been guided somehow or other,but we decided not to blame
anybody.
That was a massive step forward.
Yeah, and I think Pam was.
I think she's very gutsy.
She just stuck beside me whenwe were going broke and that was
(19:17):
a very bad experience for her,very hard experience for her,
but uh, we're still here.
I think we've married 47 or 48years this year.
Um, then we were on and off forabout six years before that.
So, um, yeah, certainly a lifepartner and, um, a brilliant
person and and not just thepartner that she in that sense,
(19:39):
but also a partner in thebusiness.
She just the partner that shein that sense, but also a
partner in the business.
She was the backstop, she wasthe person that got in and made
things happen, that organizedeverything in the background.
So when we started doingschools and doing all sorts of
stuff and I was traveling, shewas the one behind that, raising
the kids and running thebusiness and doing things in the
(20:01):
office, and she did that for,you know, 25 years.
So that was also.
Working together was also, andI guess you know that can be
stressful too, but we managed toget through that.
But the moment we startedhaving grandchildren, I knew she
was going to be out of thebusiness and that's exactly what
happened.
She's as brilliant agrandmother as she was a mother.
AJ (20:23):
Yes, playing a valued role, no doubt.
And speaking of values.
Terry (20:27):
you know, one of the reasons why, um, I went broke
was that, uh, it was.
I had this goal to make money,and it wasn't until after that
and I sort of like got back onthe wagon again, if you like,
and I realized that making moneyis not one of my values In fact
, it's almost against my valuesand so what I was doing I'd set
(20:50):
a goal that was incongruent withmy values, and the big lesson
that I've learned from that isthat it can actually make you go
backwards when you do somethinglike that, not just stay static
.
You know, it can be verydamaging and, again, what a
beautiful lesson to learn thatyour goals must be congruent
(21:15):
with your values and your vision.
And we probably wouldn't havehad to do what we did to
establish rcs as we did, if we'dhave been comfortable, you know
, and had a backstop.
So there was no, there was nobackstop, there was no plan b,
so it just had to work and so,uh, you know that again, you
(21:35):
know that's just, I guess,serendipity, it's looking back
on it you wouldn't have it anyother way, really.
AJ (21:40):
Yeah, again, consistent thing with a lot of people I
speak with as well.
I'm curious.
A couple of points there, terry, maybe to start with.
A lot of your work I mean yoursuccess since then and certainly
your work with others is stillabout having people with
profitable businesses on country.
So it's like getting that NorthStar right actually sets the
(22:04):
parameters for the bits inbetween your relationships, your
profitability, state of yourland, etc.
To work as well.
So it's not like taking youreye off money or not, or even
what did you say.
It's almost against your valuesto think about the money, but
still the money works out.
Terry (22:19):
That's correct.
It comes if you're doing theright thing.
And when I sort of analysed mysuccesses and failures, all the
failures were times when I wentand focused on making some money
and had no clear vision for it,no values, there was no sort of
underlying good to it and itbasically was contrary to who I
(22:43):
am.
Every success I've had is thecomplete opposite, where I've
just focused on the bigger cause, the bigger reasons for doing
things and the real whys, had aclear vision.
And that was one of the realturning points in RCS, because
it had been going for aboutseven or eight years before we
really started to go anywhereand it was clarifying the vision
(23:08):
.
And I can still recall where Iwas sitting.
It was about nine o'clock atnight.
I was sitting in the loungechair in a house we owned in
yipoon and this came to me and Isat there and wrote it out.
And it is still the vision thatwe operate by today.
And it's when I'm employingpeople, when I'm talking to
(23:31):
people, the number one thing ofimportance is actually
profoundly sharing the visionand it's that vision that's
actually driven everything we'vedone since and and it's still
there, still written down almostas it was.
AJ (23:48):
That's getting close to 30 years ago a constant thread
through our conversation already, these moments of contemplation
that really set you up, andthere was another one right
there, and so I'm sensing avirtuous cycle, which I know you
try and instigate through yourwork at RCS as well, where you
get yourself prepared, slash,relaxed enough to deal with what
(24:11):
comes, to continually have thespace to stop and allow the
insights and the vision topercolate.
Terry (24:20):
Yes, having that space is important, and I guess that's
another lesson I've learned andallow the insights and the
vision to percolate.
Yes, having that space isimportant, and I guess that's
another lesson I've learned isthat you have to actually slow
down long enough to allow thingsto come to you.
And one of the other greatlessons is that in order to have
something new come into yourlife, you generally have to give
up something, and usually it'shave to give up something, and
(24:41):
usually it's harder to give upsomething than it is to accept
something new.
And if you just taketransformation of land and
businesses, for example, you'vegot to give up tradition, you
have to give up the way that youthought things should be done
in order to allow space for adifferent way to do it.
(25:02):
And in the transformationprocess, it's that giving up
something uh, that I've foundthrough personal experience,
that is is probably the thereally key step in making making
progress to go forward.
AJ (25:19):
You said before you might have been guided in some way
with getting through some of thetough times Again, particularly
as a young bloke.
Where did you get that guidance?
Terry (25:30):
from?
That is a really good question.
Again, I've been guided, Ithink, for a very long time, and
stuff just comes to me and I'vegot no idea where it comes from
.
There's usually a level ofcertainty about it and that
could be at many, many differentlevels.
You know, I was having aconversation very recently, uh,
(25:54):
with a young person aboutbasically their life and their
attitude to some things, andthere was stuff just coming to
me and I was just askingquestions and the questions were
spot on.
It actually went right to theheart of their issue.
Now I don't know where some ofthat stuff comes from, um, but I
(26:14):
understand it's intuition.
You know, I I believe there'sthree levels of consciousness.
So there's the, the, theconsciousness that we're in
right now talking.
You know, we're conscious, ifyou like.
There's our subconscious, whichis orders of magnitude more
powerful than our conscious mind, and then there's the
superconscious, and thesuperconscious is where our
(26:37):
subconscious in particular cantap into things like the zero
point field and the overarchingconsciousness, and and I guess
that's, I suspect or sense thatthat's actually where it comes
from.
And you experience this whenyou're teaching and I've spoken
(26:57):
to a lot of other teachers aboutthis and sometimes somebody
will ask you a question and youwill shoot back with a brilliant
answer that you know isabsolutely right.
And then you'll think toyourself later where did that
come from?
You know, I didn't know that, Iknew that, and a lot, of, a lot
of teachers experience that,and I suspect that, because
(27:19):
you're in the moment and you'revery present to what's going on,
you're actually connected andyour conscious is connected to
your subconscious, which isconnected to the superconscious,
or the zero point field, whichactually gives you access to all
information that's ever beenknown, and so that, I believe,
is where it comes from, and Idon't know how or why I'm able
(27:44):
to tap into that.
Well, I've been trying to figureit out recently.
I've actually I'm writing adraft of something which may may
turn out to be a book, and Iwas reviewing again the
successes and failures.
And why have I had an influence?
I'm just a, a country kid, youknow, that grew up on a dairy
(28:05):
farm with nothing special.
I've had no real education, andthat also has been a bit of an
advantage, I think, because I'mnot stuck in paradigms.
But I guess one of the booksthat I've read that um has
really resonated with me waspower versus force, and that
(28:26):
says that different individualshave different power and gandhi
is a great example of that.
So gandhi was a guy with powerand he defeated the entire force
of the british empire, and thethesis of that book is that
power will always overcome force.
Mandela is another classicexample of a man who had the
(28:49):
power to overcome massive amountof force.
So there's a scale ofconsciousness and people like
Mandela and Gandhi and so on,we're up in the 400s on a scale
of 1 to 1,000.
And it's also about how weconnect emotionally with what's
(29:09):
around us and what emotions welive in.
Generally, if we're living infear, we're living in jealousy,
we're living in some of thoselower level anger, those lower
level emotions.
We're below the consciousnesslevel of 200.
As we go above that level of200, as a human, our
(29:31):
consciousness starts to climband we reach higher levels and
on that scale there's only twopeople have ever reached a
thousand, and that was JesusChrist and Buddha.
And you can see, for example,the influence of Jesus Christ.
2,000 years later.
(29:53):
It is still extremelyinfluential.
So that's, you know, that'spower versus force, and I've
done a bit of dowsing there andI think I'm a little bit
somewhere on that power scale,and I think that's probably
where the influence has comefrom.
This and that's energetic.
(30:13):
It's not, um, you know, it'sgot nothing to do with an
individual.
Really, it's to do with energy.
So that's sort of theconclusion I'm coming to.
I could be barking entirely upthe wrong tree there too, but
you know, that's uh.
AJ (30:26):
I'm trying to justify something to myself well, it's
interesting because you're goingoff what has been working, and
this is interesting to me.
I had a listener and a friendcontact me recently and say that
he was on a farm in philipisland in victoria, victoria.
So he's an engineer.
It worked in energy largely,but with again taking a broader
(30:50):
perspective and developing that.
And he said he's on this farm,he's with the farmer and happens
to be a high profile scientificadvisor with that person and
they're talking about how theydoused a water source from the
kitchen table off a map.
And my friend said I reallystruggled, to be honest, to
(31:10):
contemplate that and I think itwas the person who's not the
farmer, the scientific advisorno less says I can't help you
with that, I can only tell youwhat happened, and I've spoken
to other farmers who are workingin this very way too.
So it's like the people who areon the ground working in this
way and finding what works findno contentiousness in this, and,
(31:33):
of course, first Nations peoplearound the world wouldn't
either, I expect.
So it's just a matter as Iunderstand it, terry, I mean you
focus heavily on science inyour work, but not only that.
There are other ways of knowing, if you will.
Terry (32:01):
Yeah, and I guess, having a science background and also
wanting to understand why thescience of these sorts of
energies is actually in quantumphysics, and the book I suppose
that most influenced me in thisarea and I'm actually just
reading it again at the momentis the Field by Lynne McTaggart,
and she's a journalist whodecided to dig into
consciousness and startedtalking to physicists from all
(32:22):
over the world and have done allsorts of interesting
experiments, and she onlyreported on scientific
experiments and stuff that'sbeen done and really dug into
consciousness in a very deep way.
To me it was probably one ofthe most influential books I've
ever read.
So that and a couple of otherbooks that I've tried to read
(32:42):
around quantum physics indicateto me that there is a reality,
if you can call quantum physicsa reality.
One of the guys that wrote oneof the books I read on quantum
physics said if you think youunderstand quantum physics, you
don't understand quantum physicsand that it's such mind-bending
stuff that, um, but there isscience there, you know, and the
(33:07):
quantum physics side of this,uh, of the super consciousness,
is the zero point field whereeverything is stored, and so
there's, you know, there's a,there's a quantum physics
calculation that says if youcould capture and use the energy
in one cubic meter of zeropoint field, you could boil all
(33:29):
the oceans on earth and it's theholy grail of energy.
But I'm I'm hoping they don'ttap into it, because if you
start using that energy, thenyou're actually.
There's all these thoughts andall these knowledge and all
sorts of stuff that might getburnt up.
You know, I really don't know,but it's, there, is science
behind it.
What I'm finding now is thatstuff that I can talk about
(33:52):
today and get easily 80%acceptance and people interested
in what would have been classed25 and 30 years ago as voodoo
or woohoo or you know, absoluterubbish and I was probably in
that.
I would have called it the samething, you know, 30 years ago.
But there is no doubt that thelevel, the consciousness of
(34:16):
humans is increasing and peopleare more and more open to the
fact that there's a spiritualrealm to life.
And whether you believe in, youknow, the Christian God,
muhammad, buddha, or just theuniverse and the zero point
(34:38):
field, in my understandingthey're all the same thing and
we all, every one of of us,we're actually part of it.
We're not apart from it, and Ithink that's.
That's the thing that we reallyneed to get.
We're the plants and the soilsand the animals and everything
is actually.
We are so interconnected that Ithink in our western world, in
(35:01):
a western society, we'vedisconnected so much from the
universe and what you're talkingabout.
Some of those farmers that goback that are talking about that
stuff.
They're just reconnecting andthey're fortunate enough to be
reconnecting at an earth level.
They're earthed, if you're, ifyou like, and therefore they're
(35:22):
able to connect.
But if you live in a high risein Sydney or Melbourne or you
know a major city, and you'resurrounded by sounds of cars
instead of birds, you're livingon concrete instead of soil,
you're eating artificial foodinstead of real food, the
chances of you being connectedand earthed are really remote.
(35:46):
And one of the earlyexperiences I had here, which
again was an experience thatwoke me up to the power of these
sorts of energy, is a processcalled vibrational kinesiology
or vibrational medicine.
Yes, and the power invibrations and sounds is
(36:06):
unbelievable.
And you know, I think thatbirdsong, for example, in the
morning, opens the stomata onplants to allow them to start to
breathe and pull in the CO2, etcetera.
You know it's all of thesethings are so much connected.
AJ (36:26):
And you run workshops in this stuff now and have done for
a little while.
How do they go?
Terry (36:30):
we've been running workshops in this now for 10
years.
We call it quantum agricultureand they're going very, very
well.
Uh, it's been very slow to getgoing, but the impact on the
people that are doing it andusing it now it's it's.
I guess the thing that'sexciting is that it's practical
and it's only limited by yourimagination.
(36:50):
You know, we've got one guy,for example, who was running a
crocodile farm, has played someof those sounds to the eggs and
increased the hatchling survivalrate by 10 to 12%, which is
worth a million dollars a yearnet to that farm.
I've had guys that one guy didan experiment where he was
(37:13):
selling sheep into a big saleyard where there was sort of
10,000 sheep sold each time, andevery time he put his sheep
onto the truck, he just blessedthem and intended for them to
top the sale in their class andthen, three or four days after
each sale, he would pour throughthe MLA data and four times out
(37:37):
of four his sheep top the salein their class.
Now that's not an accident.
I've seen water change quality,wells change volume and it's all
intention, our thoughts, butparticularly our intention, is
so powerful and and when youdon't understand that, it can be
(37:59):
working against you.
And and I guess this is whereyou know if we're not grateful
for things in our life and we'refocused on things we don't want
, what we're actually doing isattracting the things that we
don't want.
And I first learned about thisin ecology.
You know that if you focus onweeds, you're going to get more,
(38:20):
and it's exactly the same inour life.
If we focus on weeds in ourlife, we get more weeds in our
life.
And it's a much, much biggerprinciple than just one for
ecology, but it's again, it'sanother, I think, one of those
fundamental sort of principlesof life Focus on what you want,
not on what you don't want.
(38:40):
Focus on what you want, not onwhat you don't want.
AJ (38:44):
It's been absolutely fantastic chatting.
Thanks for spending extendedtime with me.
What a journey even thisconversation's been, let alone
you who lived it.
What's a significant piece ofmusic to you in that journey
that you can tell us about here?
Terry (39:00):
There's one that I was on holidays in Ireland a couple of
years ago and there was afarmer stood up in a pub and
sang a song called In myFather's House and it really
resonated with me and it'srecorded by a guy called Daniel
O'Donnell and I just love it.
It's it's a beautiful Irishmusic and and with my
(39:24):
inheritance Irish background,the Irish music appeals to me.
But the message of thinkingback to your childhood and what
you've learnt in your father'shouse is, yeah, it had some real
resonance with me, so that'sthe one I'd pick for today.
AJ (39:41):
Beautiful Because you do credit your mother and your
father, both for setting you upwith the value set we've talked
about today to a large extent.
Terry (39:49):
Yeah, I got my love of the land and nature and so on
and animals from mum and I got Ibelieve I got my humanity and
my interest and understanding ofpeople from dad who was a
second world war vet and, um, I,with you, know the benefit of
hindsight and I was too young tounderstand this when he was
(40:11):
alive.
But how you could come throughfighting in new guinea for four
years and come out of that andbe a normal father, it just is
beyond me and I just, you know Itake my hat off to him and all
those guys that went throughthat.
AJ (40:30):
Yeah, that you can be a normal father, as you put it,
and then pass on a sense ofhumanity out of that.
Yeah, yeah, cheers to that.
Yeah, thanks, terry.
Thank you very much.
Thanks, anthony, and all thebest to you and your podcasts.
You're doing a great job yeah.
Cheers to that.
Yeah, thanks, terry.
Thank you very much.
Terry (40:42):
Thanks, anthony, and all the best to you and your
podcasts.
You're doing a great job.
AJ (40:47):
My pleasure and a bloody life.
Well lived so far, terry, goodstuff, thank you.
We'll speak again soon, thanks,Anthony, see you next year Will
do Cheers, mate.
Bye.
(41:17):
That was Dr Terry McCosker.
thanks to our generoussupporters and partners.
If you, too, value what youhear, please consider joining
them by visiting the website viathe show notes regennarration.
com.
Thanks for your support, andthanks also for sharing, rating
and reviewing the podcast.
The tune you're hearing is byJeremiah Johnson.
(41:38):
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening,.
G'day Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
listener-supported portal intothe regenerative era.
Today we continue the newseries Vignettes from the Source
, featuring some of theunforgettable, transformative
and often inexplicable momentsmy guests have shared over the
years.
This one is from almost fiveyears ago with regenerative
(00:27):
agriculture legend the founderof RCS Australia, Dr Terry
McCosker.
Terry and his family havebecome dear friends over those
five years, but thisconversation was our first at
any length and still stands asone of the most popular and
profound.
On this podcast I commonly lookat grabbing 10 or 15 minutes
for these vignettes, but on thisoccasion Terry and I took off
(00:50):
straight out of the gates anddidn't look back.
I found the first half an hourand a bit so moving, fundamental
to his pioneering life anduniversal in relevance, and then
I just had to patch in the lastfew minutes together too,
featuring Terry's choice ofmusic.
If you'd like to hear orrevisit the rest of this
conversation, I'll put a link towhat was episode 67 in the show
(01:12):
notes behind the greatestregenerative agriculture
movement in Australia, alongwith the bonus episode to that
one, and also episode 136 withTerry alongside brilliant wife
Pam at their home.
After the 30th anniversary, rAustralia International
Convergence had eventually takenplace in 2022.
(01:34):
How the reverberations continueto echo out of that gathering.
It was also the first and, sofar, last time I ever cried
introducing a conference as itsMC, relating a family story,
with Terry's permission, that heshared here.
I hope you enjoy revisitingthis special one.
Here's Terry.
(01:54):
Terry, it's great to speak withyou.
We would have been in person atthis time of year in Queensland
, save for the strange yearwe've had with your conference.
But here we are.
I probably wouldn't mindstarting with a question about
your home, actually, and justbecause you've worked with so
many other people and theirhomes and their patches of land
(02:15):
and, by extension, our sharednational estate.
But what does your patch ofland mean to you?
Terry (02:24):
It's a great question.
My little patch of land came toyou.
It's a great question.
My little patch of land cameabout by really establishing our
vision and being really clearabout that, and it's something
that we recommend strongly thatpeople do.
And Pam and I could never agreeon where we wanted to live.
She wanted sea views and Iwanted rural, and it took us a
(02:45):
while to work out we couldactually have both and that's
what we got.
So we went and bought a blockof land that had was rural but
had sea views, and then we weregoing to build a house on it.
Long story short, we eventuallygot an architect and designed
something that we wanted, and sowe did that and couldn't afford
it at the time.
(03:05):
So we just pulled up and and Iwas pretty keen on real estate,
and one Sunday night I wasreading the real estate section
of the paper and and I read thisad for a block of land and and
I said to Pam well, what do youthink of this?
You know, it just sounds reallygood.
So he said, no, no, we've madeour decisions.
You know, we'll stick with whatwe've done.
And so the next morning I rangup the real estate agent and
(03:27):
booked us in for Tuesday to goand inspect this place.
And we inspected it and Iwalked out and I said you're
gonna have to make a decision,aren't you?
And it was everything that wehad written down that we wanted
in the house, in the land inspades.
It was 30 acres instead of twoand a half.
(03:47):
It had three sheds instead ofone, all the fencing was done,
the water was in, the gardenswere done, it had a 360 degree
veranda around the house, whichwe'd been talked out of because
we couldn't afford it, and andso by friday we owned.
So we're in this piece ofparadise where we sit up at a
(04:07):
hill and we've got sea views,we've got our cattle and our
camels that run around the houseand in the paddocks just below
us and some beautiful tropicalpastures, and it's extremely
peaceful and just a beautifulspot to sit and contemplate.
AJ (04:23):
Is that where a lot of your reflection would happen?
Is it you know, on that veranda?
Terry (04:27):
Actually, surprisingly, not the veranda's too
distracting.
I tend to have a lot of my bestideas in the shower.
Believe it or not, I get a lotof brainwaves and breakthrough
thoughts in the shower, ormostly, yeah, a lot of the best
ones I've ever had.
Have uh in the shower.
Or mostly, yeah, um, a lot ofthe best ones I've ever had, um,
have been in the shower and,and that's just about being
(04:50):
relaxed, and your, uh, theknowledge is in your
subconscious and uh, you shut uplong enough for the
subconscious to send a messagethrough to you and uh, so that's
.
You know, uh, how a lot of themhave come about.
AJ (05:03):
It's fascinating, isn't it?
You're not alone there.
Indeed, I read a book calledRest a couple of years ago, and
I think the subtitle wassomething like how to be more
productive by doing less, butessentially it was charting the
science and the famous peoplethroughout history who have
essentially worked only abouthalf a day, but really
intensively, and the rest theyswitch off, which is where the
(05:31):
creativity or the breakthroughscome through.
So your 50-year legacy, Terry,of working in the space, now
your remarkable success withgraziers and farmers all over
the country, and the world forthat matter.
What does success look like?
What have you?
Terry (05:41):
seen.
Look like what have you seen?
Success to me is seeing thechange in people.
Uh, I start working with peoplewho I've never met and you meet
them at the door and whatever,and then work with them for
about a week or so and then workwith them over years after that
and over about a four-yearperiod.
The transformation in theirattitude, in their fun and and
(06:06):
joy in life, um, the, theenjoyment they're getting out of
their landscape, their, theiranimals a lot, you know their
business, um the whole thing,and that's that's success to me.
Um, and it's not about moneyand it's uh, but it's really
about the transformation inpeople and it's just, it is an
(06:26):
unbelievable privilege to beinvolved in that
transformational process inpeople's lives and I, you know,
every time I experience I can'tbelieve that I've had the
privilege of being part of thatjourney I guess you you're
working with people who havebeen in stressful situations of
one kind or another, so you mustbe seeing that transformation
(06:48):
from really doing it quite toughto then feeling like they're on
a good wicket again.
AJ (06:55):
Is that true to say?
Terry (06:56):
Yes, and I think what a lot of it is.
It's about being in control.
A lot of people, their lives,their businesses, are out of
control.
So you've got a drought andthat's out of control.
Uh, prices change and you'reout of control.
Communication's not good in thefamily and you're out of
control.
(07:16):
You don't know what yourbusiness is actually doing, so
you're out of control.
And I think that one of the thethings that we tend to do that
actually makes the difference isgiving people the tools to get
them in control of every one ofthose things.
And when you're in control, youknow how you're going to handle
(07:36):
the next drought.
You know how you're going tohandle the one you're in.
It's not that it's pleasant,but it's not a disaster because
you actually know what you'regoing to do.
And I've actually had peoplesay to me after we've sat down
and developed a brilliantdrought plan I can't wait for
the next drought to try this out.
You know, and that that's theattitude that you really need to
(07:58):
have.
I've now got the skills and thetools.
I can predict when a drought iscoming.
I know when it's over.
Those are things that you needthe tools to do that, and once
you've got those tools, you'refar more in control, and that
then tends to give you peace ofmind, and then you're able to
(08:19):
settle down and actually startto enjoy what you've got.
And actually start to enjoywhat you've got, and I think one
of the things that we teach aswell is that then be grateful
for what you do have.
So often people are focused onwhat they don't have and anxious
about that and worried about itand so on.
(08:40):
But sit down every day and justbe grateful for what you do
have.
You know, I encourage people tojust first thing in the morning
, wake up and list 20 thingsthat they're grateful for for
the day, and and sometimespeople find that hard getting to
three.
But when you insist I insistyou do three and then do another
(09:03):
three, and then do anotherthree, and by the time you get
10 or 15, they're starting toget the hang of it that there is
actually a lot of things intheir life to be grateful for.
AJ (09:15):
And I think that's also a mind switch that people start to
instead of focusing on whatthey don't have, they focus on
what they do have and enjoy thata lot more, and I think that's
a that's a really importantprocess in life actually yeah, I
instantly see the relationshipbetween the two, because you're
talking about how you can twothings really not expect things
(09:38):
to be different from the realityexample, the drought you're in
but also how you can I guessit's that old glass half full
thing where you're not alwayslooking from a position of
scarcity, you're looking from aposition of strength.
And how can you navigate therealities?
And that you're capable ofnavigating the realities that
you're immersed in.
Terry (10:00):
Yeah, I guess I've always had an abundance philosophy
rather than a scarcityphilosophy.
Most of what I've done has beenlong term.
I've always been thinking andworking, you know, years and
years ahead of where we are.
One example of that was when Iwas chairman of the Beef Expo.
(10:22):
I was chairman of Beef 97.
When I was chairman of the BeefExpo, I was chairman of Beef 97
.
And we were planning for things20 years in advance, which was
five expos in front of the onethat we were on, and we were
making decisions that actuallywere not necessarily right for
the expo that we were running,but I knew that they were right
for future ones.
(10:43):
And so I've always sort oftaken that view that we really
we need to be thinking wellahead and not just focused on
today, and doing that with anabundance mentality.
AJ (10:56):
And when you say control, I mean you're instantly saying in
terms of looking for the nextdrought, you know that drought
is going to happen in thiscountry.
So control isn't trying tocontrol the world, if you like,
or the circumstances you're in.
It's controlling what you'redoing within those circumstances
.
Terry (11:15):
That's correct, it's controlling your reaction.
So you know, it's the oldstatement it doesn't matter what
happens to you, it's how youreact to that that counts.
Whether it's a drought or aprice change or anything, all of
those things or covid19, youknow any of those things that
can go wrong in our lives, it'snot the fact that they're going
to go wrong, we they are.
(11:35):
There's all sorts of things.
Life's a journey.
It's never a straight line andand it's an opportunity to keep
learning.
Every one of these turns andtwists in in life's journey is a
learning experience.
But then it's an opportunity tokeep learning.
Every one of these turns andtwists in life's journey is a
learning experience.
But then it's how we react tothat twist.
That's really the criticalthing.
And whether that's managing aproperty, whether you're losing
(11:59):
your job at the moment withCOVID-19.
You know I was talking on aplane the other day, which is a
bit of an unusual experience atthe moment.
On Monday, you know I wastalking.
I was on a plane the other day,which is a bit of an unusual
experience at the moment.
On Monday, you know, just acouple of days ago, and I was
talking to one of the stewardsthere.
Now he'd been put off veryearly on.
As soon as he sensed that thepassengers numbers were down by
(12:22):
40 to 50 percent, he went andstarted looking for another job
and he has spent three monthsworking in a freezer just moving
, you know, packing and movingstuff around, but he's kept his
family going.
He was, he was proactive aboutthat and he's back at work again
now.
But you know he saw it coming.
(12:44):
He reacted.
He thought well, you know, I'mjust not going to sit back and
be driven to the ground by thisand went and got a job.
And it's amazing how many jobsthere are around.
You know, I was again dealingwith somebody else within the
last week and looking for aperson to live on farm and work
(13:07):
and they said we just can't findanybody.
I said how come you can't findanybody when there's supposed to
be over a million peopleunemployed?
There's something seriouslywrong when we can't find
somebody in that level ofunemployment.
Again, that comes back toattitude.
There's so much around ourattitude to life and how we
react to what's going on aroundus terry, I'm so curious about
(13:30):
where this came from in you.
AJ (13:32):
I know that as a young bloke in your even early to mid-20s I
think an already sort of a bitof a prodigy.
From what I've read, charliesays you did the equivalent of
three phds, no less, on your onyour work in the northern
territory, which really set upyour life's work.
But you also married Pam, yourlife partner, started a family.
So ostensibly this wonderfulopening time in your life, but
(13:54):
then struck by tragedy also withthe accidental death of your
young son.
So I know you're talking frompersonal experience and values
forged in that experience.
But particularly as a young guyexperiencing such tragedy, how
did you harness that towards theoutlook you're talking about
here?
Terry (14:16):
The day Sean died, I vowed that his death would not
be in vain, and it drove me veryhard for the next.
It was nearly 25 years before Igot over it and realised what I
was doing and I drove everybodyaround me just as hard.
So I wasn't a really goodperson to work for for quite a
long time because of that drive,and I guess I've not ever
(14:42):
forgotten that vow and I hopethat what I've achieved has
helped at least make up for theloss of his life.
AJ (14:55):
Yeah, later on, of course, you're also to hit what you've
called the valley of death,which you work with people on
extensively, where you werealmost 40 and broke.
Terry (15:06):
You know, going broke in retrospect was actually a good
experience.
It gives you a realunderstanding when you're
working with people that areunder pressure, when you're
working with people that mayhave debt or family pressures
and all sorts of pressures um,you know what that's like and
(15:29):
you know what they're goingthrough and it helps you provide
some advice that might beuseful in dealing with that.
And I think all of thoseexperiences from the you know,
from Sean's death right throughto going broke In fact, just
recently I've gone, I've listedall the mistakes I've made in
(15:54):
business in life and all thesuccesses I've had in business
in life and and then sat downand looked at what were the
causes of the failures and whatwere the causes of the successes
.
All the successes, the causeswere the same and in all the
failures the causes were thesame but completely opposite.
I was always very goalorientated and when I was doing
(16:18):
the research in the NorthernTerritory, that was very, very
goal orientated.
We set out to to solve enormousnumber of problems and and
solved every one and a heap thatwe found on the way that we
didn't actually know existed.
My big mistake after that wasand this was the late 80s and
the bond era and all of thatsort of stuff in Australia, and
(16:42):
so I set a goal to make amillion dollars, and I in that
process, then I lost everythingthat we set out to achieve and
it wasn't until a few yearsafter that we started again with
absolutely nothing we had.
We had an old car, we had ourclothes and I still had my
family, and that was probablythe most important thing and we
(17:04):
started again then developingRCS as it is today.
And it's interesting.
You know, when you've gotnothing to lose, you're likely
to take on things that arecompletely different to that if
you have something to lose.
So financially we hadabsolutely nothing to lose, so
we just started on somethingthat was brand new and
(17:26):
completely different.
AJ (17:28):
At the top.
Your description of success wasvery much based on the things
you're describing right there,and I can imagine the things you
were learning through.
Those difficult times wouldtest your relationship, your
marriage.
Yet you guys have been lifepartners.
What was the secret to thatsuccess, if I can use that word
(17:50):
in this context?
Terry (17:52):
I think there's a number of things.
Certainly, pam's patience isone of them.
Patience is one of them.
Um, she's been a brilliantmother and has raised our
children to be wonderful adultsthat I'm very, very proud of.
And I wasn't there for a lot oftheir upbringing.
I was traveling and doing allsorts of things.
Um, that's the first.
(18:12):
The second one was when youhave, when you lose a child,
marriages will go one of twoways you will either split up or
you'll get closer together.
And the day Sean died within Ihad to break the news to Pam we
jumped in the car, we were onthe station and we just drove
(18:33):
out and went to a littlewaterfall.
We just sat by that waterfalland we just talked and we
decided there and then thatneither of us would ever blame
the other for what happened, andthat was a massive decision.
It's so easy in thosecircumstances to try and figure
(18:55):
out somebody or something toblame, and I guess we must've
been guided somehow or other,but we decided not to blame
anybody.
That was a massive step forward.
Yeah, and I think Pam was.
I think she's very gutsy.
She just stuck beside me whenwe were going broke and that was
(19:17):
a very bad experience for her,very hard experience for her,
but uh, we're still here.
I think we've married 47 or 48years this year.
Um, then we were on and off forabout six years before that.
So, um, yeah, certainly a lifepartner and, um, a brilliant
person and and not just thepartner that she in that sense,
(19:39):
but also a partner in thebusiness.
She just the partner that shein that sense, but also a
partner in the business.
She was the backstop, she wasthe person that got in and made
things happen, that organizedeverything in the background.
So when we started doingschools and doing all sorts of
stuff and I was traveling, shewas the one behind that, raising
the kids and running thebusiness and doing things in the
(20:01):
office, and she did that for,you know, 25 years.
So that was also.
Working together was also, andI guess you know that can be
stressful too, but we managed toget through that.
But the moment we startedhaving grandchildren, I knew she
was going to be out of thebusiness and that's exactly what
happened.
She's as brilliant agrandmother as she was a mother.
AJ (20:23):
Yes, playing a valued role, no doubt.
And speaking of values.
Terry (20:27):
you know, one of the reasons why, um, I went broke
was that, uh, it was.
I had this goal to make money,and it wasn't until after that
and I sort of like got back onthe wagon again, if you like,
and I realized that making moneyis not one of my values In fact
, it's almost against my valuesand so what I was doing I'd set
(20:50):
a goal that was incongruent withmy values, and the big lesson
that I've learned from that isthat it can actually make you go
backwards when you do somethinglike that, not just stay static
.
You know, it can be verydamaging and, again, what a
beautiful lesson to learn thatyour goals must be congruent
(21:15):
with your values and your vision.
And we probably wouldn't havehad to do what we did to
establish rcs as we did, if we'dhave been comfortable, you know
, and had a backstop.
So there was no, there was nobackstop, there was no plan b,
so it just had to work and so,uh, you know that again, you
(21:35):
know that's just, I guess,serendipity, it's looking back
on it you wouldn't have it anyother way, really.
AJ (21:40):
Yeah, again, consistent thing with a lot of people I
speak with as well.
I'm curious.
A couple of points there, terry, maybe to start with.
A lot of your work I mean yoursuccess since then and certainly
your work with others is stillabout having people with
profitable businesses on country.
So it's like getting that NorthStar right actually sets the
(22:04):
parameters for the bits inbetween your relationships, your
profitability, state of yourland, etc.
To work as well.
So it's not like taking youreye off money or not, or even
what did you say.
It's almost against your valuesto think about the money, but
still the money works out.
Terry (22:19):
That's correct.
It comes if you're doing theright thing.
And when I sort of analysed mysuccesses and failures, all the
failures were times when I wentand focused on making some money
and had no clear vision for it,no values, there was no sort of
underlying good to it and itbasically was contrary to who I
(22:43):
am.
Every success I've had is thecomplete opposite, where I've
just focused on the bigger cause, the bigger reasons for doing
things and the real whys, had aclear vision.
And that was one of the realturning points in RCS, because
it had been going for aboutseven or eight years before we
really started to go anywhereand it was clarifying the vision
(23:08):
.
And I can still recall where Iwas sitting.
It was about nine o'clock atnight.
I was sitting in the loungechair in a house we owned in
yipoon and this came to me and Isat there and wrote it out.
And it is still the vision thatwe operate by today.
And it's when I'm employingpeople, when I'm talking to
(23:31):
people, the number one thing ofimportance is actually
profoundly sharing the visionand it's that vision that's
actually driven everything we'vedone since and and it's still
there, still written down almostas it was.
AJ (23:48):
That's getting close to 30 years ago a constant thread
through our conversation already, these moments of contemplation
that really set you up, andthere was another one right
there, and so I'm sensing avirtuous cycle, which I know you
try and instigate through yourwork at RCS as well, where you
get yourself prepared, slash,relaxed enough to deal with what
(24:11):
comes, to continually have thespace to stop and allow the
insights and the vision topercolate.
Terry (24:20):
Yes, having that space is important, and I guess that's
another lesson I've learned andallow the insights and the
vision to percolate.
Yes, having that space isimportant, and I guess that's
another lesson I've learned isthat you have to actually slow
down long enough to allow thingsto come to you.
And one of the other greatlessons is that in order to have
something new come into yourlife, you generally have to give
up something, and usually it'shave to give up something, and
(24:41):
usually it's harder to give upsomething than it is to accept
something new.
And if you just taketransformation of land and
businesses, for example, you'vegot to give up tradition, you
have to give up the way that youthought things should be done
in order to allow space for adifferent way to do it.
(25:02):
And in the transformationprocess, it's that giving up
something uh, that I've foundthrough personal experience,
that is is probably the thereally key step in making making
progress to go forward.
AJ (25:19):
You said before you might have been guided in some way
with getting through some of thetough times Again, particularly
as a young bloke.
Where did you get that guidance?
Terry (25:30):
from?
That is a really good question.
Again, I've been guided, Ithink, for a very long time, and
stuff just comes to me and I'vegot no idea where it comes from
.
There's usually a level ofcertainty about it and that
could be at many, many differentlevels.
You know, I was having aconversation very recently, uh,
(25:54):
with a young person aboutbasically their life and their
attitude to some things, andthere was stuff just coming to
me and I was just askingquestions and the questions were
spot on.
It actually went right to theheart of their issue.
Now I don't know where some ofthat stuff comes from, um, but I
(26:14):
understand it's intuition.
You know, I I believe there'sthree levels of consciousness.
So there's the, the, theconsciousness that we're in
right now talking.
You know, we're conscious, ifyou like.
There's our subconscious, whichis orders of magnitude more
powerful than our conscious mind, and then there's the
superconscious, and thesuperconscious is where our
(26:37):
subconscious in particular cantap into things like the zero
point field and the overarchingconsciousness, and and I guess
that's, I suspect or sense thatthat's actually where it comes
from.
And you experience this whenyou're teaching and I've spoken
(26:57):
to a lot of other teachers aboutthis and sometimes somebody
will ask you a question and youwill shoot back with a brilliant
answer that you know isabsolutely right.
And then you'll think toyourself later where did that
come from?
You know, I didn't know that, Iknew that, and a lot, of, a lot
of teachers experience that,and I suspect that, because
(27:19):
you're in the moment and you'revery present to what's going on,
you're actually connected andyour conscious is connected to
your subconscious, which isconnected to the superconscious,
or the zero point field, whichactually gives you access to all
information that's ever beenknown, and so that, I believe,
is where it comes from, and Idon't know how or why I'm able
(27:44):
to tap into that.
Well, I've been trying to figureit out recently.
I've actually I'm writing adraft of something which may may
turn out to be a book, and Iwas reviewing again the
successes and failures.
And why have I had an influence?
I'm just a, a country kid, youknow, that grew up on a dairy
(28:05):
farm with nothing special.
I've had no real education, andthat also has been a bit of an
advantage, I think, because I'mnot stuck in paradigms.
But I guess one of the booksthat I've read that um has
really resonated with me waspower versus force, and that
(28:26):
says that different individualshave different power and gandhi
is a great example of that.
So gandhi was a guy with powerand he defeated the entire force
of the british empire, and thethesis of that book is that
power will always overcome force.
Mandela is another classicexample of a man who had the
(28:49):
power to overcome massive amountof force.
So there's a scale ofconsciousness and people like
Mandela and Gandhi and so on,we're up in the 400s on a scale
of 1 to 1,000.
And it's also about how weconnect emotionally with what's
(29:09):
around us and what emotions welive in.
Generally, if we're living infear, we're living in jealousy,
we're living in some of thoselower level anger, those lower
level emotions.
We're below the consciousnesslevel of 200.
As we go above that level of200, as a human, our
(29:31):
consciousness starts to climband we reach higher levels and
on that scale there's only twopeople have ever reached a
thousand, and that was JesusChrist and Buddha.
And you can see, for example,the influence of Jesus Christ.
2,000 years later.
(29:53):
It is still extremelyinfluential.
So that's, you know, that'spower versus force, and I've
done a bit of dowsing there andI think I'm a little bit
somewhere on that power scale,and I think that's probably
where the influence has comefrom.
This and that's energetic.
(30:13):
It's not, um, you know, it'sgot nothing to do with an
individual.
Really, it's to do with energy.
So that's sort of theconclusion I'm coming to.
I could be barking entirely upthe wrong tree there too, but
you know, that's uh.
AJ (30:26):
I'm trying to justify something to myself well, it's
interesting because you're goingoff what has been working, and
this is interesting to me.
I had a listener and a friendcontact me recently and say that
he was on a farm in philipisland in victoria, victoria.
So he's an engineer.
It worked in energy largely,but with again taking a broader
(30:50):
perspective and developing that.
And he said he's on this farm,he's with the farmer and happens
to be a high profile scientificadvisor with that person and
they're talking about how theydoused a water source from the
kitchen table off a map.
And my friend said I reallystruggled, to be honest, to
(31:10):
contemplate that and I think itwas the person who's not the
farmer, the scientific advisorno less says I can't help you
with that, I can only tell youwhat happened, and I've spoken
to other farmers who are workingin this very way too.
So it's like the people who areon the ground working in this
way and finding what works findno contentiousness in this, and,
(31:33):
of course, first Nations peoplearound the world wouldn't
either, I expect.
So it's just a matter as Iunderstand it, terry, I mean you
focus heavily on science inyour work, but not only that.
There are other ways of knowing, if you will.
Terry (32:01):
Yeah, and I guess, having a science background and also
wanting to understand why thescience of these sorts of
energies is actually in quantumphysics, and the book I suppose
that most influenced me in thisarea and I'm actually just
reading it again at the momentis the Field by Lynne McTaggart,
and she's a journalist whodecided to dig into
consciousness and startedtalking to physicists from all
(32:22):
over the world and have done allsorts of interesting
experiments, and she onlyreported on scientific
experiments and stuff that'sbeen done and really dug into
consciousness in a very deep way.
To me it was probably one ofthe most influential books I've
ever read.
So that and a couple of otherbooks that I've tried to read
(32:42):
around quantum physics indicateto me that there is a reality,
if you can call quantum physicsa reality.
One of the guys that wrote oneof the books I read on quantum
physics said if you think youunderstand quantum physics, you
don't understand quantum physicsand that it's such mind-bending
stuff that, um, but there isscience there, you know, and the
(33:07):
quantum physics side of this,uh, of the super consciousness,
is the zero point field whereeverything is stored, and so
there's, you know, there's a,there's a quantum physics
calculation that says if youcould capture and use the energy
in one cubic meter of zeropoint field, you could boil all
(33:29):
the oceans on earth and it's theholy grail of energy.
But I'm I'm hoping they don'ttap into it, because if you
start using that energy, thenyou're actually.
There's all these thoughts andall these knowledge and all
sorts of stuff that might getburnt up.
You know, I really don't know,but it's, there, is science
behind it.
What I'm finding now is thatstuff that I can talk about
(33:52):
today and get easily 80%acceptance and people interested
in what would have been classed25 and 30 years ago as voodoo
or woohoo or you know, absoluterubbish and I was probably in
that.
I would have called it the samething, you know, 30 years ago.
But there is no doubt that thelevel, the consciousness of
(34:16):
humans is increasing and peopleare more and more open to the
fact that there's a spiritualrealm to life.
And whether you believe in, youknow, the Christian God,
muhammad, buddha, or just theuniverse and the zero point
(34:38):
field, in my understandingthey're all the same thing and
we all, every one of of us,we're actually part of it.
We're not apart from it, and Ithink that's.
That's the thing that we reallyneed to get.
We're the plants and the soilsand the animals and everything
is actually.
We are so interconnected that Ithink in our western world, in
(35:01):
a western society, we'vedisconnected so much from the
universe and what you're talkingabout.
Some of those farmers that goback that are talking about that
stuff.
They're just reconnecting andthey're fortunate enough to be
reconnecting at an earth level.
They're earthed, if you're, ifyou like, and therefore they're
(35:22):
able to connect.
But if you live in a high risein Sydney or Melbourne or you
know a major city, and you'resurrounded by sounds of cars
instead of birds, you're livingon concrete instead of soil,
you're eating artificial foodinstead of real food, the
chances of you being connectedand earthed are really remote.
(35:46):
And one of the earlyexperiences I had here, which
again was an experience thatwoke me up to the power of these
sorts of energy, is a processcalled vibrational kinesiology
or vibrational medicine.
Yes, and the power invibrations and sounds is
(36:06):
unbelievable.
And you know, I think thatbirdsong, for example, in the
morning, opens the stomata onplants to allow them to start to
breathe and pull in the CO2, etcetera.
You know it's all of thesethings are so much connected.
AJ (36:26):
And you run workshops in this stuff now and have done for
a little while.
How do they go?
Terry (36:30):
we've been running workshops in this now for 10
years.
We call it quantum agricultureand they're going very, very
well.
Uh, it's been very slow to getgoing, but the impact on the
people that are doing it andusing it now it's it's.
I guess the thing that'sexciting is that it's practical
and it's only limited by yourimagination.
(36:50):
You know, we've got one guy,for example, who was running a
crocodile farm, has played someof those sounds to the eggs and
increased the hatchling survivalrate by 10 to 12%, which is
worth a million dollars a yearnet to that farm.
I've had guys that one guy didan experiment where he was
(37:13):
selling sheep into a big saleyard where there was sort of
10,000 sheep sold each time, andevery time he put his sheep
onto the truck, he just blessedthem and intended for them to
top the sale in their class andthen, three or four days after
each sale, he would pour throughthe MLA data and four times out
(37:37):
of four his sheep top the salein their class.
Now that's not an accident.
I've seen water change quality,wells change volume and it's all
intention, our thoughts, butparticularly our intention, is
so powerful and and when youdon't understand that, it can be
(37:59):
working against you.
And and I guess this is whereyou know if we're not grateful
for things in our life and we'refocused on things we don't want
, what we're actually doing isattracting the things that we
don't want.
And I first learned about thisin ecology.
You know that if you focus onweeds, you're going to get more,
(38:20):
and it's exactly the same inour life.
If we focus on weeds in ourlife, we get more weeds in our
life.
And it's a much, much biggerprinciple than just one for
ecology, but it's again, it'sanother, I think, one of those
fundamental sort of principlesof life Focus on what you want,
not on what you don't want.
(38:40):
Focus on what you want, not onwhat you don't want.
AJ (38:44):
It's been absolutely fantastic chatting.
Thanks for spending extendedtime with me.
What a journey even thisconversation's been, let alone
you who lived it.
What's a significant piece ofmusic to you in that journey
that you can tell us about here?
Terry (39:00):
There's one that I was on holidays in Ireland a couple of
years ago and there was afarmer stood up in a pub and
sang a song called In myFather's House and it really
resonated with me and it'srecorded by a guy called Daniel
O'Donnell and I just love it.
It's it's a beautiful Irishmusic and and with my
(39:24):
inheritance Irish background,the Irish music appeals to me.
But the message of thinkingback to your childhood and what
you've learnt in your father'shouse is, yeah, it had some real
resonance with me, so that'sthe one I'd pick for today.
AJ (39:41):
Beautiful Because you do credit your mother and your
father, both for setting you upwith the value set we've talked
about today to a large extent.
Terry (39:49):
Yeah, I got my love of the land and nature and so on
and animals from mum and I got Ibelieve I got my humanity and
my interest and understanding ofpeople from dad who was a
second world war vet and, um, I,with you, know the benefit of
hindsight and I was too young tounderstand this when he was
(40:11):
alive.
But how you could come throughfighting in new guinea for four
years and come out of that andbe a normal father, it just is
beyond me and I just, you know Itake my hat off to him and all
those guys that went throughthat.
AJ (40:30):
Yeah, that you can be a normal father, as you put it,
and then pass on a sense ofhumanity out of that.
Yeah, yeah, cheers to that.
Yeah, thanks, terry.
Thank you very much.
Thanks, anthony, and all thebest to you and your podcasts.
You're doing a great job yeah.
Cheers to that.
Yeah, thanks, terry.
Thank you very much.
Terry (40:42):
Thanks, anthony, and all the best to you and your
podcasts.
You're doing a great job.
AJ (40:47):
My pleasure and a bloody life.
Well lived so far, terry, goodstuff, thank you.
We'll speak again soon, thanks,Anthony, see you next year Will
do Cheers, mate.
Bye.
(41:17):
That was Dr Terry McCosker.
thanks to our generoussupporters and partners.
If you, too, value what youhear, please consider joining
them by visiting the website viathe show notes regennarration.
com.
Thanks for your support, andthanks also for sharing, rating
and reviewing the podcast.
The tune you're hearing is byJeremiah Johnson.
(41:38):
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening,.
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