May 20, 2025 • 66 mins
Nashville's musical legacy extends far beyond the mainstream country narrative. Tucked away in North Nashville, the Jefferson Street Sound Museum stands as a testament to the rich cultural heritage of jazz, soul, and rhythm and blues that thrived from the 1940s to the 70s. Founded and curated by Lorenzo Washington, this museum isn't just a collection of artifacts – it's a living, breathing continuation of the African American music and community that shaped generations.
We’re talking about artists like Jimi Hendrix, Etta James, James Brown, Little Richard, Peggy Gaines, Jimmy Church, Jackie Shane, Ike and Tina Turner and many more, when they played the many clubs that lined Jefferson Street, alongside the local enterprises that provided ‘everything you need to sustain a community’. That was until around half a century ago, when the construction of Interstate 40 displaced more than a thousand black residents, destroyed a business and cultural district on Jefferson Street that was thriving against the odds, and cut the neighbourhood in half.
Lorenzo tells of how ‘black museums start in the kitchen’ – literally – and his was no different. What he thought might last a year or so has since grown to consume his entire house, win multiple awards, and spawn a new generation of folk taking up the mantle. The brilliant short film on PBS, Exit 207, opens with Lorenzo walking astride young leader Carlos Partee, founder of the Nashville Black Market, just part of the cultural and economic resurgence on and around Jefferson Street. And Lorenzo’s open mic nights, recording studio, community events, conversations with legends and more, continue not just to preserve a legacy, but to create one.
I met up with this dapper, funny, humble and still sprightly 82-year-old at the Museum, as he was gearing up for the Annual Gala on April 3 - in honor of what is now Lorenzo Washington Day in Nashville TN. We end up with a song made for him at the Museum by Nashville’s Queen of the Blues, Marion James.
Recorded 11 March 2025.
Title slide: Lorenzo outside the Museum after our chat (pic: Olivia Cheng).
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Music:
Watch Out, by Chaun Davis (from Artlist).
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lorenzo (00:00):
I decided that I was not going to allow the legacy of
these great artists andmusicians, and especially the
ones that didn't make it tostardom.
I was not going to let themdown.
You know, I was going to dosomething to keep their heads
held high, and that's what I didwith this little museum,
(00:24):
because now it's being knownaround the world, not just here
in Nashville.
AJ (00:36):
Nashville's musical legacy extends far beyond the
mainstream country narrative.
Tucked away in North Nashville,the Jefferson Street Sound
Museum stands as a testament tothe rich cultural heritage of
jazz, soul and rhythm and bluesthat thrived from the 1940s
through to the 70s.
Bounded and curated by LorenzoWashington, this museum isn't
(00:59):
just a collection of artifacts.
It's a living, breathingcontinuation of the
African-American music andcommunity that shaped
generations.
We're talking about artistslike Jimi Hendrix, etta James,
james Brown, little Richard,peggy Gaines, jimmy Church,
frank Howard, jackie Shane, ikeand Tina Turner, and so many
(01:21):
more, when they played the manyclubs that lined Jefferson
Street alongside the localenterprises that provided
everything you need to sustain acommunity.
That was until around a half acentury ago, when the
construction of Interstate 40displaced more than a thousand
black residents, destroyed abusiness and cultural district
(01:43):
on Jefferson Street that wasthriving against the odds and
cut the neighborhood in half.
Lorenzo tells of how blackmuseums start in the kitchen,
literally, and his was nodifferent.
What he thought might last ayear or so has since grown to
consume his entire house, winmultiple awards and spawn a new
(02:05):
generation of folk taking up themantle.
The brilliant short film on PBSExit 207, opens with Lorenzo,
walking astride young leader,carlos Partee, founder of the
Nashville black market, justpart of the cultural and
economic resurgence on andaround Jefferson Street, and
(02:26):
Lorenzo's open mic nights,recording studio community
events, conversations withlegends and more continue to not
just preserve a legacy butcreate one G'day.
Anthony James, here for TheRegenNarration, your independent
, listener-supported podcastexploring how people are
regenerating the systems andstories we live by with.
(02:48):
Thanks to new subscribers onSubstack Rowena Morrow and
Gabrielle Mann.
Thanks, sister.
And to the good men clocking upthree years of treasured
support on Patreon Mike Mouritz,Reuben Parker-Greer, Rob Scott
and John Macpherson.
If you've been thinking aboutjoining this brilliant community
of supporting listeners andreaders, I'd love you to.
For as little as a dollar aweek, with benefits if you like,
(03:11):
you can help keep the show onthe road.
Subscribe free or paid onPatreon or Substack.
Just follow the links in theshow notes and thank you.
When I met up with this dapper,funny, humble and still
sprightly 82-year-old at themuseum, he was gearing up for
the annual gala on April 3, inhonour of what is now Lorenzo
(03:33):
Washington Day in Nashville,tennessee.
We're greeted at the door bythe museum's VP, karen Coffee,
before being joined by Lorenzo,and we end up with a song
produced for him at the museumby Nashville's Queen of the
Blues, marion James.
I've been hanging out to bringyou this one.
Let's head to Jefferson Street,all right.
(03:54):
Just arrived at the museum, youcan tell by my backdrop of
sound.
It gives you a little hint ofwhat destroyed the scene of
Jefferson Street, but we'll hearmore about it from the man
himself.
(04:16):
Hey Karen, how are yo G?
how are you Good, good.
Karen (04:20):
Good.
Over to us right here.
AJ (04:22):
Thanks for squeezing me in.
Karen (04:23):
Yeah, you're the last that we're doing.
He's in there.
He probably want to start inhere.
AJ (04:33):
Yeah.
Karen (04:35):
I'll lay a paper there for you If you want to take that
back to Australia.
AJ (04:40):
Oh cool.
Thank you, Great Thanks forthinking of that.
Karen (04:43):
And the e ad about the gala o t wonderful a the gala
shaping up.
Oh, cool magazine.
Did you see scene magazine?
AJ (04:58):
I haven't yet.
No, they've got a podcast too S.
Karen (05:03):
Oh yeah, so the podcast just came out with us.
AJ (05:07):
It did.
Did you see it?
I've been reading the book.
Karen (05:12):
Well, the podcast just came out, two hours ago.
AJ (05:14):
Two hours ago.
There you go.
Karen (05:17):
It's an interview with me and Lorenzo.
The podcast from Scene.
Lorenzo (05:21):
How you doing?
Hello, good mate, how are you?
AJ (05:24):
It's a pleasure to see you again.
Lorenzo (05:26):
Yes.
AJ (05:26):
Thanks for squeezing me in.
I know you're really busy.
Lorenzo (05:30):
It's been a little busy , though, especially during the
month of February.
Karen (05:36):
Yeah, really.
Lorenzo (05:38):
We're not in March.
Now February and March.
Karen (05:41):
Yeah.
Lorenzo (05:42):
But we've been pretty busy.
AJ (05:44):
Yeah, I hear you it sounds good though.
Yeah, lorenzo, this is where wemet the other day, at the
entrance to the museum at thefamed Jefferson Street Sound
tree.
Let's welcome listeners in,like you welcomed us in that day
, hey.
Lorenzo (05:59):
Yeah, well, to start off and I always like starting
off saying this was my home,this wasn't a museum in the
beginning.
This is where I lived, and Iturned my home into a museum,
like one room at a time.
Until now it's swallowed up mywhole house.
(06:20):
I've got one room in the backthat I live in.
AJ (06:27):
So did you pick this up after it had been a boarding
house?
Lorenzo (06:32):
Oh yeah much much further down the road when it
was a boarding house.
It was in the 50s and 60s whensome of the artists and
musicians that went to TennesseeState and that was around here
(06:53):
Now.
The main thing, tennessee Statedid not have enough boarding
for all of the students, for themusic students, so they came
out into the community andrented larger houses and put the
kids in the rooms in theselarge houses and then after that
(07:17):
boarding houses.
So we had boarding houses allup and down Jefferson Street and
in the North Nashvillecommunity.
AJ (07:26):
I'm imagining that was part of the magic of the place.
Lorenzo (07:30):
Yeah, it brought a closeness to the musicians and
artists that lived in theseboarding houses, because they
hung out at night, you know, andsang and played and wrote music
together.
Hung out at night, you know,and sang and played and wrote
music together.
So it was a lot of that goingon in these boarding houses here
(07:50):
in the city and this was one ofthem.
Now, like Hank Crawford, HankCrawford was a saxophone player
and Hank Crawford got picked upby Ray Charles.
So actually Ray Charles hasbeen in this house to pick up
his saxophone player to go ontour, to do gigs.
(08:14):
So Ray Charles has spent sometime in this house.
AJ (08:19):
It's fitting that this should happen to become the
museum ultimately, when it's gotthat sort of a backdrop.
But what was the moment for youwhere you thought I've got to
do this?
Lorenzo (08:31):
well, uh, that I've got to do this museum now.
Uh, I was inspired by Miss Maryand James and some of the other
older artists to do this museumthing because they was coming
here to rehearse and to jam.
(08:53):
I had a room over here that wasa rehearsal hall and I would
allow them to come in andrehearse and jam, because they
were getting older and theyweren't getting the gigs.
You know, like that's what theycalled it gigs, yeah they
weren't getting the gigs like,uh, they were.
(09:15):
So I would allow them to comeover and hang out here in my
spot now and when they wouldfinish.
When they would finish, theywould come over here in my
apartment and this part of thebuilding was my apartment and
they would come over here andstand around, sit around and
(09:37):
maybe have a beer or two andjust talk trash about what they
did and who they played with.
Because jimmy hendrix played inmarion james's band at one time
, did he really?
Yeah, he played behind my bestfriend, herbert herbert hunter,
uh, at one time.
So at one time jimmy would justbe getting gigs with whoever he
(10:01):
could get gigs with in order topay his rent.
You know, and I used to seeJimmy walk up and down this
street here, which is JeffersonStreet, walk up and down this
street with his guitar on hisshoulder and just moseying
around up Jefferson Street anddown Jefferson Street, because
(10:23):
he lived five blocks down thestreet and he worked six blocks
down the street.
So his home, his, the buildinghe lived in, which was a
boarding house again, upstairswas the boarding area and
downstairs there was a beautyschool, joyce's House of Glamour
(10:48):
, and Jimmy lived upstairs.
Him and Billy Cox had a room.
AJ (10:56):
He had rooms upstairs.
Lorenzo (10:58):
You know it was a house like this, yeah, and so they
lived right down the street.
So you could see Jimmy up anddown Jefferson Street any time.
Billy Cox had a little po, hehad a little monkey, and he'd
(11:32):
walk this little monkey even upand down Jefferson Street, you
know.
So it was a lot going on.
Everybody claimed JeffersonStreet.
You know.
Everybody had stories aboutJefferson Street on Jefferson
Street and everybody thattouched Jefferson Street put
(11:53):
their footprints on JeffersonStreet, was proud.
This was a proud community hereon Jefferson in North Nashville
.
AJ (12:06):
Well, there's a display right now in the Country Music
Hall of Fame that we went toyesterday on Jefferson Street.
I think they're calling it theNight Train to Nashville exhibit
.
And in that they've got apassage from Jimmy where he says
he really learned how to playguitar here.
Lorenzo (12:24):
Here on Jefferson, not on Jefferson, on Jefferson
Street, because Johnny Jones wasa guitar player and Johnny, you
know, told me this storyhimself that he had a job at a
little club up there inClarksville and Jimmy was in the
(12:47):
Army at the time, he was aparatrooper at Fort Campbell and
he used to come down to thislittle club that he worked at
Johnny Jones worked at and sitaround and listen to him and
they said, like in Seattle theydidn't have the blues.
The blues wasn't in Seattle.
(13:08):
So Jimmy could play, but hecouldn't play the blues.
And when he met up with JohnnyJones and found out that Johnny
Jones was in Nashville rightafter he got released from the
service, he came to Nashvillefollowing Johnny Jones and
(13:30):
Johnny Jones said that he hungaround him a lot and that's how
he learned how to play the bluesis hanging around Johnny Jones.
But when he got good enough hethought he was good enough to
challenge Johnny Jones in abattle and Johnny Jones beat him
(13:58):
in the guitar battle.
And Johnny said that he wasalready set up in the club, the
Club Baron, right down thestreet.
That one's still there?
Yeah, it's still there yeah.
He said he was set up in theclub to play a gig that night
and Jimmy came in with one ofhis buddies talking trash that
(14:21):
he was ready yeah, I'm ready foryou, I'm ready.
And his buddy was talking moretrash than Jimmy, you know.
And Johnny said I told him tocome on up and plug in and he
brought his little amp.
He said he had a little amp andhe brought the amp up and set
(14:45):
it up and plugged in and he saidthey got started.
And Johnny said I had two bigold speakers with two 15-inch
woofers in them and Jimmy hadthis little box that looked like
it might have had a couple of12s in it or something.
(15:08):
And he said when we got started, he said I like to blow them
out of the water because I wasloud, much louder than he was,
plus I'm an aggressive player,and so he said, said I beat him.
He said that Johnny Jones saidI got all of the applause
(15:33):
because I was good and loud andI'm good and all this is just
the tip of the iceberg.
AJ (15:42):
Mean I look behind you on this famous tree that you've set
up with.
Well, not even all the artists,but a lot of the artists that
came through and a lot of theclubs they played at.
This street was really full ofit.
Lorenzo (15:55):
It was full and these clubs that you see on this tree
was the larger ones.
It didn't show all of the onesin between these which were
smaller clubs, but we got clubs.
I'm going to start over here.
We got Price's Dinner Club, nowPrice's.
(16:16):
A lot of artists played atPrice's.
We had Tom Malone, marion Jamesplayed there.
We had Tom Malone, mary andJames played there, christine
Cottrell, benny Lattimore playedthere, but one of the main ones
that's not on the tree was FatsDomino.
Fats Domino, when he would cometo Nashville he'd go right to
(16:41):
Price's because they werefriends and he'd always go to
Prices.
So that was Fats Domino's spot.
And over here at the Club Baronis where Little Richard made
his home on Jefferson Street.
That was the club that heperformed at every weekend.
(17:02):
Wow.
AJ (17:03):
Marvin.
Lorenzo (17:03):
Gaye.
AJ (17:05):
Yeah, marvin Gaye, yeah, marvin.
Lorenzo (17:07):
Gaye played there.
AJ (17:08):
D Ford Bailey.
You've got a big stand-uppainting here of him as well.
Lorenzo (17:12):
Right right, otis Redding, otis Redding, Bobby
Bluebland, and then we had theBlack Diamond.
The Black Diamond was a club.
That building is still standing.
It's a restaurant now, but itwas sort of like a spillover.
You know, if everything elsewas full, you might go by the
(17:36):
Black Diamond.
That's the way I explained it.
There was more or less aspillover there.
And then you had the club stillaway.
At the club still away, youmight catch Ike and Tina Turner
in the club still away, arethaFranklin played the club still
(17:56):
away Del Marocco as well.
She was performing at sheperformed, yeah, all around the
different clubs.
Jimmy Church.
AJ (18:03):
Oh, Lucius Talley, who we saw here with you the other
night.
Yeah, yeah, Lucius.
Lorenzo (18:06):
Spoonman.
Now, lucius used to be adrummer, yeah, you know.
So that's how he got on the maphere.
It was before he startedplaying spoons.
AJ (18:21):
Another namesake, Etta James Mm-hmm playing spoons.
Lorenzo (18:25):
Another namesake Etta James, mm-hmm.
Now Etta James cut her firstlive album at the New Era Club.
Oh, right here, her first liveRock.
The House was the name of thatalbum.
AJ (18:37):
James Brown down there too.
Lorenzo (18:39):
Mm-hmm.
Now, when the artists, whenthey came to Nashville, the
first place that most of themwanted to play at is the New Era
Club, because that's where thelocal crowd is.
You know the local crowd was atthe New Era and you know you're
going to have a packed houseevery weekend night at the New
(19:04):
Era, every weekend night at theNew Era.
So when artists come toNashville they want to check out
the New Era just because ofthat local crowd.
You know that's where I went.
You know a lot back then that'sthe first place that I would go
is the New Era Club.
Yeah, magnificent.
AJ (19:27):
And then there came a time after this period, the 40s to
the 70s where it came to ascreeching halt To talk about
this.
What initiated that?
Why don't we step outside ontothe street to get?
A visceral sense.
I mean, listeners are probablyhearing some of the traffic
behind us, but that's just yeahbut that was Jefferson Street.
Lorenzo (19:44):
You heard traffic sirens, probably hearing some of
the traffic behind us, butthat's just yeah, but that was
jefferson street.
AJ (19:48):
You know, you hear traffic siren and uh, all of that was on
jefferson street so we, as westep outside onto jefferson
street now let's follow thatthread and talk about what
changed in the 70s street soundand that covers all of the
(20:11):
sounds that may have taken placeor that was here on jefferson
street.
Lorenzo (20:31):
now you have to imagine over 600 and something homes
and businesses up and down thestreet, so you had people up and
down the street.
Like right there on the cornerused to be a little grocery
store right there on the corner,across the street, it was an
(20:51):
instrument, a shop where theysold used instruments.
So it was artists and musiciansin and out of that shop over
there all the time.
Right here next door it was anice cream parlor, so you had an
ice cream parlor there and youhad all of these artists and
(21:13):
musicians living in thisboarding house right here.
So you had all of that kind ofaction right here, but you had
houses next to each other, nextdoor to each other.
You had them all the way upjefferson street and you had
little kids up and downjefferson street.
(21:34):
Now you don't see kids on thisstreet.
There's no kids.
But uh, in the uh, 60s and the70s and 50s, 60s and 70s and 50s
, 60s and 70s, it was justpeople lined up, all of these
students.
That was up and down JeffersonStreet.
(21:55):
You had libraries down thestreet, insurance companies, car
dealerships, grocery stores,clothing stores.
You had all of that up and downJefferson Street car
dealerships, grocery stores,clothing stores.
AJ (22:09):
You had all of that up and down Jefferson Street.
It's funny that developmentshould have been thought of as
taking away everything thatyou've already got and that you
need.
Lorenzo (22:19):
Yeah, but it was planned for them to take away
this community, to put theinterstate right through it, to
drain the interstate.
Now they didn't even tell thecommunity what they were going
to do.
Really they didn't even, theydidn't warn the community that
(22:50):
they would go out in theBellmead area and put up flyers
or something to let them knowthat they are getting ready to
cut through Jefferson, cutthrough North Nashville.
But they didn't bring thosesame flyers and that same
information to the actualcommunity, to the actual
community.
So when they came through thecommunity with the bulldozers
(23:12):
and the trucks and all of that,the plan had already been made
years before and I heard theystarted planning this interstate
in the 50s, around 55 orsomething.
But they didn't actually startworking on the interstate until
(23:33):
the early 60s, 63, 64, 5.
And in 67, they were drivingdown the interstate.
In 67, they were driving downthere in the state and they
didn't even want to put a ramp,an off-ramp on Jefferson Street
where you had the threeuniversities over here.
(23:57):
Still, most of the clubs weregone.
Even in the back of thisbuilding.
They took the backyard, we, you, the backyard, went all the way
to the alley and the alley andall of that's gone.
Yeah, yeah when we pulled up.
AJ (24:14):
We're right between the building and the interstate and
the interstate, so that explainssee the interstate went back to
the next street, I mean thebackyard.
Lorenzo (24:24):
You had big backyards, yeah, but not now, no more.
So with all that was going onand just like you hear the
traffic here here but you hit,the only emergency hospital in
(24:53):
the black community was right upthe street here, herbert
Hospital, and that's thehospital that I was born in,
right here on Jefferson Street.
So it was a lot going on and alot to do here on this street,
but the interstate brought thechange to Jefferson Street in
(25:15):
the early 60s.
AJ (25:18):
Let's go back in.
We've got the visceral sense ofthat now, but we'll go back
where it's quieter.
The visceral sense of that now,but we'll go back where it's
quieter.
I can only imagine, Lorenzo,what that felt like at the time
to be ambushed by that sort of achange.
Yeah, what was the sense in thecommunity then?
Lorenzo (25:46):
Well, we felt that they wanted our community Because
right after they came throughhere with the interstate, they
didn't do anything to protectthe community.
As far as you know, they didn'thave good police presence, as
far as you know, they didn'thave good police presence.
(26:07):
There were garbage, you knownot, but trash, you know, on the
streets.
You didn't see the streetsweepers coming through very
often or the prisoners comingthrough with the brooms and the
dustpans and dust pans.
(26:34):
So we were really let down bythe lack of attention that this
community was getting after theinterstate came through here.
But the thing is and I've heardthat the plan was for it to be
like this today, you know, withthe tall and skinnies coming up,
yeah, with the access to theinterstate.
You know, for the people on theother end of Jefferson Street
(26:57):
that has big businesses downthere, but they can get to the
interstate right down the streethere down there, but they can
get to the interstate right downthe street here.
And that was something thatthey needed and they got.
They got Jefferson Street, theygot the interstate and they got
(27:24):
the community.
AJ (27:25):
When I said they, they government the city.
It comes hot on the heels ofthe civil rights movement that
you lived through as well, and Iread in your book the other day
that your granddad's granddadwas a slave, did secure the 40
acres in a mule, unlike manythat had it sort of taken back.
Lorenzo (27:47):
But we only got 24 acres, did you?
Because they sold off some ofthe acres?
There we go.
AJ (27:54):
So your life has also lived through a lot of that
marginalisation.
How was it for you growing upin that You've maintained such a
disposition, a positivedisposition to people?
How did you do that?
Lorenzo (28:10):
Well, when I was a kid, you know, we lived in a
neighborhood across, just acrossthe bridge.
It wasn't far away now, a mileand a half, but we lived in a
community where it was black andwhites living in the community.
Some of our best friends werewhite kids.
(28:30):
They lived in that area that welived in.
It was sort of like it was arural area but it was mixed with
black and whites.
And on this hill up here some ofmy best friends, bubba Fields
(28:52):
that's what his nickname was,bubba Fields, their last name
was Field.
They had a horse and some cowsand chickens and that kind of
stuff on their farm.
A little old farm, kind ofshabby, but you know it was a
(29:13):
farm and we lived down the hillhere and we had a little
four-room house down there andit was like seven, eight of us
living in that house in the headof kitchen.
So it didn't have but two rooms.
That was considered bed, no,three rooms was considered
(29:35):
bedrooms and then the kitchen.
There wasn't no living room ornone of that.
It didn't have that much spacein it.
But we lived in that littlehouse on Wichita Street but
Bubba Fields and them up here onthis end.
We used to go to their housesome weekends and spend the
(29:56):
night and then we'd get up inthe mornings we'd ride the horse
and ride the cow and rode thecow and rode the cow and he had
a little motorcycle and we'dride the little motorcycle.
So we had a ball up there atBubba Fields Now.
But Bubba Fields used to loveto come to our house and spend
(30:20):
the night because of my mother'scooking.
She'd cook a big breakfast andspend the night because of my
mother's cooking.
She'd cook a big breakfast.
She'd have eggs and friedchicken and biscuits, you know,
for breakfast and he loved tocome to our house for breakfast.
We loved to go there because hehad the cows and the horses.
AJ (30:38):
I should clarify too biscuits here are what we call
scones back home.
So people think biscuits, butthey're more like cookies for us
.
Cookies for breakfast, what?
No, they're scones, we callthem.
Lorenzo (30:48):
Oh scones.
AJ (30:50):
Yeah, so scones for breakfast Sounds lovely.
Oh, and so a nod to your mothertoo, because I have to say,
like, right behind you, it'salmost my favourite feature of
this museum is her old turntable.
Lorenzo (31:08):
Yeah, this is a turntable here we call it a
record player because it playedrecords, because it played
records and it had a radio alsoand that was the old record
player that my mother you'd goin the house and hear the music.
You know it wasn't no big dealand that's just what they played
music on after we gotelectricity.
(31:29):
Because, uh, we didn't getelectricity until I was about 12
years old and we gotelectricity.
That's when we could play.
You know, something like thisbut uh, and the backwater man.
We remember the backwater wouldcome through every year and old
(31:50):
Bubba Field and them had a boat.
Laughter, they had a.
It was a paddle boat, you know,but they had a boat, you know
when the backwater come about,every three years the backwater
would come in and the backwaterwould get this high in our house
.
AJ (32:09):
Like chest high.
Lorenzo (32:10):
Yeah, chest high in the house and we'd have to wait
until the water go down.
And when the water would godown we'd have to go in and
scrub the walls down and thefloors and move back in.
AJ (32:27):
This is fascinating because I mean, I take it that's the
Cumberland River.
That would do that.
The Cumberland River, and whatstopped it?
Are there dams upstream now?
Lorenzo (32:36):
The dams.
AJ (32:37):
Yeah, it's interesting because, because like right now
down there.
Lorenzo (32:41):
Do you know they got all of those apartments and uh
housing down there.
Yes, and we were wondering well,what are they going to do about
the backwater?
But they fixed the backwater.
You know, downstream, yeah,yeah, the dams and stuff
interesting.
So they're not concerned withthe backwater because the
(33:02):
backwater used to come up andcome across Jefferson Street.
You couldn't go straight downJefferson Street, you'd have to
turn at 10th and go around andcome back down at 6th, 5th, 5th
and 6th and get back onJefferson, because the backwater
(33:23):
would have part of JeffersonStreet cut off.
AJ (33:26):
So amongst a range of things .
What's really interesting to meis that you still describe your
childhood as full of love andhappiness.
Lorenzo (33:34):
Yeah, but that was just how we were taught.
You know, my mother was a kind,good, good lady and we picked
that up from her.
She had me going through theneighborhood taking care of the
little old ladies in theneighborhood, cutting the grass
and running to the store forthem.
(33:55):
I was doing that at eight,seven, eight years old, you know
, doing for the neighbors,especially the ladies, and so we
were taking care of them backwhen I was seven, eight years
(34:15):
old.
So I learned kindness throughmy mother and it came with me.
You know, right today, you know, if I see a person, especially
an older person, in need,although I'm an older, person.
Karen (34:34):
now I almost got a sigh.
Lorenzo (34:40):
You know I have arised, you know, but the way I look at
it, you know, I don't feel, youknow, that older person, you
know.
So I'm still looking to help,so I'm still looking to help.
AJ (35:00):
Well, let's walk through a little bit, hey, and come back
to how you arrived.
Lorenzo (35:08):
Like you set, this up in what was it 2011?
How you?
AJ (35:11):
arrived decades later thinking I've got to do this.
What was that spark or thatcompulsion?
Lorenzo (35:17):
that made you start.
Well, see, marion James andthese older artists were still
living.
Yeah, yeah, you know most ofthem has died out since I
started the museum, and so I wasencouraged and inspired, you
(35:48):
know, to continue on.
And then, once most of thempassed, then I said I've got to
do it now in order to keep theirlegacy going.
And that's what I did, evenwhen they came here from the
Smithsonian Mrs Ruskins, she'sup there with Michael Gray,
(36:10):
michael Gray with the whiteshirt on Well, he's over at the
Country Music Hall of Fame andshe's from the Smithsonian near
Washington, and she's from theSmithsonian near Washington.
And they came and they asked meif I could pull some of the
(36:30):
artists together that grew up,you know, here on Jefferson
Street, grew up performing, andI said yeah, because I was sort
of in touch with them, and so Ipulled together this group right
here.
There's Miss Marion James, ohwow, she's deceased.
Now there's Frank Howard he'sstill performing.
(36:51):
There's Jesse Boyce.
Jesse Boyce is deceased now.
There's Nick Nixon, and NickNixon is deceased now.
And there's Clifford Curry.
Clifford Curry is deceased.
There's D Ford Bailey I'm sureyou've heard of him you heard.
(37:13):
His daddy is what they'repromoting now.
And there's pictures of himright there.
Yeah, incredible story.
And he's deceased now.
And there's pictures of himright there, yeah, incredible
story.
And he's deceased now.
And there's Spoon man Spoon manLucy, spoon man Talley.
And there's Jimmy Church.
And there is Don Adams oh, wow,and this gentleman here, jimmy
(37:39):
Odie.
Jimmy Odie was the drummer forJames, not James Brown, little
Richard, for a few years.
AJ (37:49):
Yeah, so you were the conduit for these bigger
institutions.
Yeah as well, yeah.
Lorenzo (37:56):
Even with the African American Museum downtown.
I went down and told some of mystory and they brought a whole
busload of their people here tolearn my stories and I didn't
think I had any stories worthtelling that meant anything
(38:20):
until I started getting doinginterviews and and I'm I'm not a
good interviewer I tell folk ina minute.
I'm not great at interviewingat all.
I just tell my story and hopeyou take it, uh, like it's
presented to you.
AJ (38:38):
you know from the heart uh, like it's presented to you.
You know from the heart, thebest kind you know.
So you started in 2011 and onthat note, then we were talking
the other day, I said did ittake off straight away or did it
take a bit of time?
And you said it took a bit oftime and as much because, like
we're talking, a few years andas much because you needed to
build your confidence up in theway that you're describing yeah,
(39:00):
and I said so.
You started it before you wereconfident oh yeah, yeah, I was.
Lorenzo (39:06):
I was scared to death to get in front of a microphone.
I you know that was one of theworst things you could do to me
is put a microphone in front ofme, you know, uh, but now I have
a different kind of confidence.
It's not that I feel like I'mgood at it or anything, is that?
(39:28):
Uh, just go on and tell yourstory.
Yeah, you know, that's, that's.
That's where I'm at now.
I'll just go on and tell youknow, and try to answer the
questions as best that I can.
AJ (39:42):
Right on.
Okay, so we've moved into thisroom.
Let's bring listeners back intohow it feels we're in this.
What was this room?
Was this your dining room?
This was my living room.
It was your living room andit's full of.
I'll put photos up on thewebsite.
It's full of these images, someof which you've been referring
to.
I've got your book to my righthere.
I've got an extraordinarydisplay here.
(40:04):
You said it was the first itemin here, I think did you One of
the first?
Lorenzo (40:12):
That's one of the first articles that I put on the
walls.
It started with that wall backthere and then this wall, and
how did that?
AJ (40:18):
come to be here and then this wall.
Lorenzo (40:21):
And how did that come to be here?
Well, because they were thewalls that I felt you could see
first when you come in here.
This wall was right here whereyou could see it when you come
in the room, and that wall wasnext to the stairwell here where
(40:41):
you go up and down to thestudio.
And most of these artists onthis people on this wall had
something to do with hip-hop,the rap musics.
I had a couple of rappers thatI helped promote, along with Don
Adams there Now Don Adams didthe first album that we had here
(41:08):
on Jefferson Street.
I don't know of another albumbeing cut and released on
Jefferson Street before DonAdams, and that was here in the
museum.
AJ (41:19):
That was here in the museum upstairs and now you're getting
instruments donated.
It's become a real place wherepeople are giving more and more
things like these two pianos.
Lorenzo (41:29):
Right right, these pianos were donated.
The one on that side wasdonated by Dr WO Smith's
daughter, jackie Smith, andJackie was a singer a jazz
singer and she ended up movingfrom Nashville to California and
(41:51):
she didn't have room for thepiano, so she donated the piano
to the museum.
Now this piano over here wasdonated by Marion James's cousin
and she wrote her only hitrecord on that piano.
And that hit record was that'smy man and it was a 45.
(42:13):
And she wrote the song playingthis piano and that was the only
hit song that she wrote.
AJ (42:25):
It's an amazing song.
Well, so are the rest of themHits or not?
Yeah, right.
Lorenzo (42:32):
She was a romantic singer.
She sung about romantic thingsall the time.
AJ (42:42):
Yeah.
And then we cut left into aroom that's sort of notable for
being full of framed photos andold promotional posters.
Right.
Lorenzo (42:54):
This is the room where most of the artifacts are.
And most of these artifactswere donated by different
artists and some by friends ofartists you know and relatives
of different artists.
Now this vest right here wasdonated by Jesse Boyce and Jesse
(43:20):
played bass guitar for LittleRichard.
There's a picture of him upthere and Jesse played with
Little Richard for about 20years.
And Jesse Boyce also got pickedup by Barry Gordy at Motown and
he ended up leaving Nashvilleand going to Detroit and playing
(43:43):
with Motown writing for Motownfor four or five years.
Matter of fact, that guitar upthere on the wall was Jesse
Boyce's guitar and on thatguitar he wrote the song firefly
and he got a platinum recordfor that song firefly that the
(44:08):
temptations uh recorded, yeah,and he wrote it on that, wrote
the song on that guitar andabout three weeks before he died
he brought that guitar overhere and signed it and donated
it to the museum.
So that's a treasured piece.
And Jesse was also one of mybusiness partners when I got
(44:34):
into the music in 75.
In the record store In therecord, moses Dillard and Jesse
Boyce had a production company,dillard and Boyce Production,
and they were over on Music Row.
Matter of fact, they were thefirst black production company
(44:58):
to be accepted on Music Row andthey seeked me out of the
community to come and partnerwith them.
So I did and I was one of thepartners.
I went from the record store, Ihad a record store, I went from
owning a record store to beinga part of the record business
(45:21):
and those guys cut one album andthe album is in there in the
case.
Cut an album Saturday NightBand Come On, dance, dance.
They got two Grammy nominations, yeah, and you were on it.
AJ (45:34):
Yeah, you wrote a piece.
Lorenzo (45:36):
Yeah, I wrote a piece on the second one.
AJ (45:38):
But you said you had no idea about music.
No, I didn't.
How did you do?
But you said you had no ideaabout music.
No, I didn't.
Lorenzo (45:42):
How did you do that?
I didn't have no idea aboutnone of this stuff, but here I
am, you know, in a seriousconversation about all this
stuff.
AJ (45:55):
And you've got awards.
Can I say they're coming out ofyour ears now.
Lorenzo (45:59):
Yeah, I've gotten quite a few Getting ready to go to
Knoxville tomorrow to receiveanother award.
So, yeah, I've gotten notorietyfrom all of this stuff that I'm
doing.
AJ (46:15):
You've got a day named after you.
Lorenzo (46:17):
Yeah, I've got a day named after you.
Yeah, got a day named after me.
One of the April the 3rd herein Nashville, tennessee, is my
day.
It's a given day for LorenzoWashington Day.
Whoever would have expectedthat kind of stuff?
AJ (46:35):
you know, it must say something.
I think it says a lot about ourdeep appreciation for the
stories of our places.
Lorenzo (46:45):
Yeah, yeah, and it's all about the stories.
You know what folk want to hear.
When they come in this littlemuseum, they look at the
pictures, but how does it relateto what took place on Jefferson
Street my stories?
AJ (47:05):
Right on.
So what happens next with thisplace then?
Where are you heading with itnow?
Lorenzo (47:13):
Well, we've got a couple of programs that we've
implemented and one the main onethat's going to take us forward
with the museum and with thestories and with the talent, is
Seymour S-Y-M-O-R.
(47:35):
Start your Month Off Right, andthat's a feature that we've
gotten started here and wefeature different artists and we
have an open mic kind of thingdoing part of the Seymour Night,
(47:59):
and what we're doing isbringing the community, the
musical community, back together.
You know, through the open micand the Seymour featuring
artists, that kind of thing.
We do it the first Monday ofevery month, for right now, when
it gets warm, we'll take itoutside.
AJ (48:22):
And we had that story night.
Lorenzo (48:24):
you know the legacy story night the other night,
yeah, the legacy night we haveit, where we are interviewing
some of the older artists andgetting their story down on tape
, you know.
So one day we'll be able toplay these tapes and let them
(48:46):
tell you some of their storiesabout what took place on
Jefferson.
AJ (48:52):
Street.
I was curious too, because inthat conversation you
articulated a vision of a dinnerclub.
Lorenzo (48:57):
Oh yeah, that's my vision.
I don't know if nobody else hasthat vision.
Karen may have joined in withme on that vision, but what I'd
like to see on the street or inthis community is a nice dinner
club that would hold about 110,15 people and bring in artists
(49:23):
from around the country thatsing the blues.
You know people that's justgetting started that don't cost
you a lot of money and let themperform some of these old songs
that these older musicians wouldperform and just have good food
(49:46):
and good music back here onJefferson Street.
AJ (49:52):
Given the reaction to this museum, I can't see how it
wouldn't work.
Lorenzo (49:57):
Well, it just takes a bunch of money, wouldn't work.
Well, it just takes a bunch ofmoney.
You know it's going to take afew million dollars to buy the
properties you know and build abuilding.
AJ (50:10):
But the money's coming in in one form or other, isn't it at
the moment?
So just a bit of it that way.
Lorenzo (50:14):
Well, just enough to keep us keep the stories going.
AJ (50:19):
Yeah, it's a beautiful vision, yeah, and notable,
having watched the PBS storyExit 207, about the interstate
coming through and transformingthis community.
but then about your work wasalso the work of Carlos with the
Nashville Black Market, and wewent to the Black Market last
Friday.
Oh, you did, yeah, the firstone for the year, apparently, as
(50:40):
things are starting to thaw outa bit, yeah.
And yeah, the way he was withyou on that show too, looked
like a real I don't know hispassing of the baton, too much
to say, but it's a similar ilk.
He's gone and set up this blackmarket, african-american market
, small business, music, amazingfood, kids on the street.
(51:06):
It was that vibe.
So sure now it's, it's overthere, but still on, still
connected to jefferson,connected yeah and and there is
next generation coming on withthis stuff too.
Are you seeing a bit of that?
Lorenzo (51:19):
yeah, well, it's not a lot, but it has to start
somewhere, and carlos is, andCarlos has sort of fell into
that mold that I'd like to seetake place here on Jefferson
Street.
(51:40):
And you have to have nerve, youknow, to step out front to do
these things that we're doing totry to revive the community,
the street.
And I'm not just saying thestreet, I'm saying the community
(52:00):
, because now we've gotBuckhannon up here and
Buckhannon they're investingmore in that street because it
was more property, it was morereal estate, you know, over
there on Buckhannon than it wason Jefferson Street, because
(52:23):
here on Jefferson Street you gotthe interstate bagged right up
to the properties over here onJefferson Street so you don't
have the footage.
You know, going back, just likeback here, you know it stops
right there.
Now you couldn't put a parkinglot back there.
(52:44):
You know you can park four orfive cars and then they're going
to catch the blues getting outof there if it's that many, you
know.
So you have to.
You just have to be careful howyou spend your money when you
come over here on Jefferson, youknow, and you have to have a
(53:07):
lot of nerve to come over hereand invest, because you're going
to have some years before yourecoup your first money you know
, it's going to take you threeor four years to establish
yourself, and to a point ofmaking a profit.
(53:30):
Now, can you afford those threeor four years?
AJ (53:34):
It seems like a small price to pay for what you gain, and
I'm looking at you havingtransformed your house into this
and seeing what it's floweringthat you had that patience.
Lorenzo (53:47):
Yeah, but instead of me it taking three or four years,
it took 13 years.
Yeah yeah, you know, but I havelived through those 13 years.
I have lived past those 13years, and so that's why I'm
able to stand here and talk toyou, because I endured.
AJ (54:09):
Would you do it again?
Are there key lessons or piecesof advice out of your
experience?
Lorenzo (54:15):
If I was the age that I was 13 years ago, I might would
say yeah, but being that I'm 13years older than those years, I
probably would say no.
AJ (54:30):
Yeah.
If it was now, yeah, I probablywould say no.
Yeah, yeah, if it was now, yeah, I probably would say no, but
there was a bigger drive for you, it was a bigger call, it just
had to be done.
Lorenzo (54:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I felt that in my heart that itneeded to be done.
AJ (54:50):
And as you went.
Lorenzo (54:51):
Then you found a way.
Yeah, I found a way.
You know how do you explainthat Now?
That I can't explain that Ican't explain.
AJ (54:59):
Yeah, really Endurance you know, I'm really interested in
this bit that you can't explain,because this is a common story,
right?
People just feel that they'vegot to do it, and they do their
thing.
It turns out incredible,inspires so many people, and and
then other people are sittingthere going, oh I couldn't do it
.
I couldn't do what I'm thinkingof, though.
(55:20):
It'd be pretty hard.
Lorenzo (55:22):
I'd have to be in it for years before any money came
back, or whatever right, right,right now, uh, a couple of my
friends, uh, friends, one ofthem bought him a new Corvette,
one of them bought him a Lexusand one of them lives in one of
these tall and skinniesoverlooking downtown.
Now I say, that could have beenme.
(55:44):
Yes, exactly, I could haveafforded that at one time, you
know, but I chose to grind itout here in this little museum.
I decided that I was not goingto allow the legacy of these
(56:08):
great artists and musicians, andespecially the ones that didn't
make it to stardom.
I was not going to let themdown, you know, I was going to
do something to keep their headsheld high.
And that's what I did with thislittle museum, because now it's
(56:29):
being known around the world,not just here in Nashville, not
just here in North Nashville.
It's gone from just the folkaround here knowing about it to
now you spreading the word inAustralia, and it's been
spreaded in Australia, and it'sbeen spread in Europe, in France
(56:54):
, in Canada, in Mexico.
So it's being spread all aroundnow.
And we're going.
Now they're calling us to cometo different places to pick up
these different awards, us tocome to different places to pick
up these different awards.
And so now we're being awardedfor keeping this museum alive
(57:16):
and keeping the people in thismuseum alive.
AJ (57:20):
Yep, as I stand here, I feel like I'm surrounded in riches,
so here's to that.
To close, lorenzo, extremelyfitting in this context, I
actually ask my guests whatmusic would we go out with after
this conversation?
Is there a piece that standsout in your mind right now or
something that's been with youfor a long time, maybe when you
(57:43):
were a kid?
Lorenzo (57:44):
Well, the piece now that goes out is back in the day
that Marian James sung, andit's about Jefferson Street.
AJ (57:54):
Brilliant.
We've been listening to Mariansince we were here on Saturday.
Lorenzo (57:59):
But you hadn't heard this one on Marian back in the
day and it sings about the clubs.
Let me see if I can come upwith something here just to give
you a quick listen, right?
Marion James (58:20):
Nashville, tennessee, that's history.
On a road named JeffersonStreet.
(58:46):
Back in the day, that was allthe gold Gateway.
Back in the day, that was allthe gold Gateway, jefferson
Street.
Jazz and Blues that is the road.
Oh, up in Jefferson you couldstop at Good Jelly John.
(59:09):
You could get a littlemoonshine and wine and it's
close.
You could slide on in there,have a good time.
Back in the day, that was allthe gold Jefferson Street.
(59:36):
Jazz and blues that is the road.
Back in the day, back in theday, back in the day, back in
(01:00:00):
the day, back in the day, backin the day, oh Lord, that was
all ago.
Twelting jellies, son, youcould stop at Stoops and eat a
(01:00:24):
little barbecue Right across thestreet.
Now, y'all, you can have a goodtime At Cozy Corner too.
Ease on down.
The club still awake.
Johnny Jones and Jimmy ChurchJust began to play Browns Dental
(01:00:55):
Club.
Charles Dungeon played his play.
Sounds so good.
Now Kinda wanna get up, shakeup the mass play.
(01:01:19):
Back in the day, that was allthe gold Gateway, jefferson
Street.
That is the road Back in theday in the day, back in the day,
(01:01:45):
back in the day, back in theday, back in the day, back in
the day.
Oh Lord, that was all ago.
From Fish University to TSU,you could have a ball at Club
(01:02:18):
Demarocco too.
Jimmy Henry, billy Cox on bass,island Boy Sam, not letting the
music go to waste.
Club baron, oh, it's ready.
Little Richard too.
Oh hey, having a Sunday jamjust for you.
(01:02:44):
Don't forget, girl.
Behind the green door when theyplay, don't forget the prize.
Behind the green door when theyplay, everyone hit the floor.
That's every day, that's thestreet every day.
(01:03:07):
That's every dayets were streetjazz and blues Back in the day.
Oh yeah, that was all ago.
One more time now.
Back in the day, oh hey, backin the day.
(01:03:30):
One more time now.
Back, back, back, back, ah hey,back, back, back, back, back,
back back Talking about a littlegirl Playing, back, back, back
back.
Lorenzo (01:03:41):
Couldn't miss her.
She's gonna meet Jackie Shanetoo.
Really Back, back, back back.
Marion James (01:03:59):
Ah, ah, ah, ah, back, back, back, back, really
Back in the day, back in the day.
That was all the time.
Back in the day, Back in theday, back in the day.
AJ (01:04:28):
Back in the day.
What album is that?
Lorenzo (01:04:36):
off.
It's a single that she did forme.
Oh, really yeah, and weproduced it right here upstairs.
She couldn't go up the stepswhen she did this, so she sat
right in there beside the tableand we brought microphones
(01:04:59):
downstairs to her and sherecorded it sitting right in
there in that room.
AJ (01:05:04):
No way.
Lorenzo (01:05:06):
Yeah, that's brilliant, and we brought a band in
different band members.
Oh, the band's brilliant, andwe brought a band in different
band members.
AJ (01:05:12):
Oh, the band was great.
That's amazing, lorenzo, I'm soglad you played that.
Yeah Well, lorenzo, I can'tthank you enough.
I love what you guys are doing,thank you.
Thanks for speaking with me.
Lorenzo (01:05:24):
Yes sir, yes sir.
AJ (01:05:27):
That was Lorenzo Washington, founder and curator of the
Jefferson Street Sound Museum.
I've put a bunch of photos onthe website and, of course,
various links in the show notes.
As usual, I'll have more forpaid subscribers on Patreon and
Substack soon, a great thanksfor making it all possible.
You can join these great peopleby heading to the website or
the show notes and following theprompts.
(01:05:47):
The music you're hearing isRegeneration by Amelia Barden.
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening.
Than yo yo.
I decided that I was not going to allow the legacy of
these great artists andmusicians, and especially the
ones that didn't make it tostardom.
I was not going to let themdown.
You know, I was going to dosomething to keep their heads
held high, and that's what I didwith this little museum,
(00:24):
because now it's being knownaround the world, not just here
in Nashville.
AJ (00:36):
Nashville's musical legacy extends far beyond the
mainstream country narrative.
Tucked away in North Nashville,the Jefferson Street Sound
Museum stands as a testament tothe rich cultural heritage of
jazz, soul and rhythm and bluesthat thrived from the 1940s
through to the 70s.
Bounded and curated by LorenzoWashington, this museum isn't
(00:59):
just a collection of artifacts.
It's a living, breathingcontinuation of the
African-American music andcommunity that shaped
generations.
We're talking about artistslike Jimi Hendrix, etta James,
james Brown, little Richard,peggy Gaines, jimmy Church,
frank Howard, jackie Shane, ikeand Tina Turner, and so many
(01:21):
more, when they played the manyclubs that lined Jefferson
Street alongside the localenterprises that provided
everything you need to sustain acommunity.
That was until around a half acentury ago, when the
construction of Interstate 40displaced more than a thousand
black residents, destroyed abusiness and cultural district
(01:43):
on Jefferson Street that wasthriving against the odds and
cut the neighborhood in half.
Lorenzo tells of how blackmuseums start in the kitchen,
literally, and his was nodifferent.
What he thought might last ayear or so has since grown to
consume his entire house, winmultiple awards and spawn a new
(02:05):
generation of folk taking up themantle.
The brilliant short film on PBSExit 207, opens with Lorenzo,
walking astride young leader,carlos Partee, founder of the
Nashville black market, justpart of the cultural and
economic resurgence on andaround Jefferson Street, and
(02:26):
Lorenzo's open mic nights,recording studio community
events, conversations withlegends and more continue to not
just preserve a legacy butcreate one G'day.
Anthony James, here for TheRegenNarration, your independent
, listener-supported podcastexploring how people are
regenerating the systems andstories we live by with.
(02:48):
Thanks to new subscribers onSubstack Rowena Morrow and
Gabrielle Mann.
Thanks, sister.
And to the good men clocking upthree years of treasured
support on Patreon Mike Mouritz,Reuben Parker-Greer, Rob Scott
and John Macpherson.
If you've been thinking aboutjoining this brilliant community
of supporting listeners andreaders, I'd love you to.
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(03:11):
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When I met up with this dapper,funny, humble and still
sprightly 82-year-old at themuseum, he was gearing up for
the annual gala on April 3, inhonour of what is now Lorenzo
(03:33):
Washington Day in Nashville,tennessee.
We're greeted at the door bythe museum's VP, karen Coffee,
before being joined by Lorenzo,and we end up with a song
produced for him at the museumby Nashville's Queen of the
Blues, marion James.
I've been hanging out to bringyou this one.
Let's head to Jefferson Street,all right.
(03:54):
Just arrived at the museum, youcan tell by my backdrop of
sound.
It gives you a little hint ofwhat destroyed the scene of
Jefferson Street, but we'll hearmore about it from the man
himself.
(04:16):
Hey Karen, how are yo G?
how are you Good, good.
Karen (04:20):
Good.
Over to us right here.
AJ (04:22):
Thanks for squeezing me in.
Karen (04:23):
Yeah, you're the last that we're doing.
He's in there.
He probably want to start inhere.
AJ (04:33):
Yeah.
Karen (04:35):
I'll lay a paper there for you If you want to take that
back to Australia.
AJ (04:40):
Oh cool.
Thank you, Great Thanks forthinking of that.
Karen (04:43):
And the e ad about the gala o t wonderful a the gala
shaping up.
Oh, cool magazine.
Did you see scene magazine?
AJ (04:58):
I haven't yet.
No, they've got a podcast too S.
Karen (05:03):
Oh yeah, so the podcast just came out with us.
AJ (05:07):
It did.
Did you see it?
I've been reading the book.
Karen (05:12):
Well, the podcast just came out, two hours ago.
AJ (05:14):
Two hours ago.
There you go.
Karen (05:17):
It's an interview with me and Lorenzo.
The podcast from Scene.
Lorenzo (05:21):
How you doing?
Hello, good mate, how are you?
AJ (05:24):
It's a pleasure to see you again.
Lorenzo (05:26):
Yes.
AJ (05:26):
Thanks for squeezing me in.
I know you're really busy.
Lorenzo (05:30):
It's been a little busy , though, especially during the
month of February.
Karen (05:36):
Yeah, really.
Lorenzo (05:38):
We're not in March.
Now February and March.
Karen (05:41):
Yeah.
Lorenzo (05:42):
But we've been pretty busy.
AJ (05:44):
Yeah, I hear you it sounds good though.
Yeah, lorenzo, this is where wemet the other day, at the
entrance to the museum at thefamed Jefferson Street Sound
tree.
Let's welcome listeners in,like you welcomed us in that day
, hey.
Lorenzo (05:59):
Yeah, well, to start off and I always like starting
off saying this was my home,this wasn't a museum in the
beginning.
This is where I lived, and Iturned my home into a museum,
like one room at a time.
Until now it's swallowed up mywhole house.
(06:20):
I've got one room in the backthat I live in.
AJ (06:27):
So did you pick this up after it had been a boarding
house?
Lorenzo (06:32):
Oh yeah much much further down the road when it
was a boarding house.
It was in the 50s and 60s whensome of the artists and
musicians that went to TennesseeState and that was around here
(06:53):
Now.
The main thing, tennessee Statedid not have enough boarding
for all of the students, for themusic students, so they came
out into the community andrented larger houses and put the
kids in the rooms in theselarge houses and then after that
(07:17):
boarding houses.
So we had boarding houses allup and down Jefferson Street and
in the North Nashvillecommunity.
AJ (07:26):
I'm imagining that was part of the magic of the place.
Lorenzo (07:30):
Yeah, it brought a closeness to the musicians and
artists that lived in theseboarding houses, because they
hung out at night, you know, andsang and played and wrote music
together.
Hung out at night, you know,and sang and played and wrote
music together.
So it was a lot of that goingon in these boarding houses here
(07:50):
in the city and this was one ofthem.
Now, like Hank Crawford, HankCrawford was a saxophone player
and Hank Crawford got picked upby Ray Charles.
So actually Ray Charles hasbeen in this house to pick up
his saxophone player to go ontour, to do gigs.
(08:14):
So Ray Charles has spent sometime in this house.
AJ (08:19):
It's fitting that this should happen to become the
museum ultimately, when it's gotthat sort of a backdrop.
But what was the moment for youwhere you thought I've got to
do this?
Lorenzo (08:31):
well, uh, that I've got to do this museum now.
Uh, I was inspired by Miss Maryand James and some of the other
older artists to do this museumthing because they was coming
here to rehearse and to jam.
(08:53):
I had a room over here that wasa rehearsal hall and I would
allow them to come in andrehearse and jam, because they
were getting older and theyweren't getting the gigs.
You know, like that's what theycalled it gigs, yeah they
weren't getting the gigs like,uh, they were.
(09:15):
So I would allow them to comeover and hang out here in my
spot now and when they wouldfinish.
When they would finish, theywould come over here in my
apartment and this part of thebuilding was my apartment and
they would come over here andstand around, sit around and
(09:37):
maybe have a beer or two andjust talk trash about what they
did and who they played with.
Because jimmy hendrix played inmarion james's band at one time
, did he really?
Yeah, he played behind my bestfriend, herbert herbert hunter,
uh, at one time.
So at one time jimmy would justbe getting gigs with whoever he
(10:01):
could get gigs with in order topay his rent.
You know, and I used to seeJimmy walk up and down this
street here, which is JeffersonStreet, walk up and down this
street with his guitar on hisshoulder and just moseying
around up Jefferson Street anddown Jefferson Street, because
(10:23):
he lived five blocks down thestreet and he worked six blocks
down the street.
So his home, his, the buildinghe lived in, which was a
boarding house again, upstairswas the boarding area and
downstairs there was a beautyschool, joyce's House of Glamour
(10:48):
, and Jimmy lived upstairs.
Him and Billy Cox had a room.
AJ (10:56):
He had rooms upstairs.
Lorenzo (10:58):
You know it was a house like this, yeah, and so they
lived right down the street.
So you could see Jimmy up anddown Jefferson Street any time.
Billy Cox had a little po, hehad a little monkey, and he'd
(11:32):
walk this little monkey even upand down Jefferson Street, you
know.
So it was a lot going on.
Everybody claimed JeffersonStreet.
You know.
Everybody had stories aboutJefferson Street on Jefferson
Street and everybody thattouched Jefferson Street put
(11:53):
their footprints on JeffersonStreet, was proud.
This was a proud community hereon Jefferson in North Nashville
.
AJ (12:06):
Well, there's a display right now in the Country Music
Hall of Fame that we went toyesterday on Jefferson Street.
I think they're calling it theNight Train to Nashville exhibit
.
And in that they've got apassage from Jimmy where he says
he really learned how to playguitar here.
Lorenzo (12:24):
Here on Jefferson, not on Jefferson, on Jefferson
Street, because Johnny Jones wasa guitar player and Johnny, you
know, told me this storyhimself that he had a job at a
little club up there inClarksville and Jimmy was in the
(12:47):
Army at the time, he was aparatrooper at Fort Campbell and
he used to come down to thislittle club that he worked at
Johnny Jones worked at and sitaround and listen to him and
they said, like in Seattle theydidn't have the blues.
The blues wasn't in Seattle.
(13:08):
So Jimmy could play, but hecouldn't play the blues.
And when he met up with JohnnyJones and found out that Johnny
Jones was in Nashville rightafter he got released from the
service, he came to Nashvillefollowing Johnny Jones and
(13:30):
Johnny Jones said that he hungaround him a lot and that's how
he learned how to play the bluesis hanging around Johnny Jones.
But when he got good enough hethought he was good enough to
challenge Johnny Jones in abattle and Johnny Jones beat him
(13:58):
in the guitar battle.
And Johnny said that he wasalready set up in the club, the
Club Baron, right down thestreet.
That one's still there?
Yeah, it's still there yeah.
He said he was set up in theclub to play a gig that night
and Jimmy came in with one ofhis buddies talking trash that
(14:21):
he was ready yeah, I'm ready foryou, I'm ready.
And his buddy was talking moretrash than Jimmy, you know.
And Johnny said I told him tocome on up and plug in and he
brought his little amp.
He said he had a little amp andhe brought the amp up and set
(14:45):
it up and plugged in and he saidthey got started.
And Johnny said I had two bigold speakers with two 15-inch
woofers in them and Jimmy hadthis little box that looked like
it might have had a couple of12s in it or something.
(15:08):
And he said when we got started, he said I like to blow them
out of the water because I wasloud, much louder than he was,
plus I'm an aggressive player,and so he said, said I beat him.
He said that Johnny Jones saidI got all of the applause
(15:33):
because I was good and loud andI'm good and all this is just
the tip of the iceberg.
AJ (15:42):
Mean I look behind you on this famous tree that you've set
up with.
Well, not even all the artists,but a lot of the artists that
came through and a lot of theclubs they played at.
This street was really full ofit.
Lorenzo (15:55):
It was full and these clubs that you see on this tree
was the larger ones.
It didn't show all of the onesin between these which were
smaller clubs, but we got clubs.
I'm going to start over here.
We got Price's Dinner Club, nowPrice's.
(16:16):
A lot of artists played atPrice's.
We had Tom Malone, marion Jamesplayed there.
We had Tom Malone, mary andJames played there, christine
Cottrell, benny Lattimore playedthere, but one of the main ones
that's not on the tree was FatsDomino.
Fats Domino, when he would cometo Nashville he'd go right to
(16:41):
Price's because they werefriends and he'd always go to
Prices.
So that was Fats Domino's spot.
And over here at the Club Baronis where Little Richard made
his home on Jefferson Street.
That was the club that heperformed at every weekend.
(17:02):
Wow.
AJ (17:03):
Marvin.
Lorenzo (17:03):
Gaye.
AJ (17:05):
Yeah, marvin Gaye, yeah, marvin.
Lorenzo (17:07):
Gaye played there.
AJ (17:08):
D Ford Bailey.
You've got a big stand-uppainting here of him as well.
Lorenzo (17:12):
Right right, otis Redding, otis Redding, Bobby
Bluebland, and then we had theBlack Diamond.
The Black Diamond was a club.
That building is still standing.
It's a restaurant now, but itwas sort of like a spillover.
You know, if everything elsewas full, you might go by the
(17:36):
Black Diamond.
That's the way I explained it.
There was more or less aspillover there.
And then you had the club stillaway.
At the club still away, youmight catch Ike and Tina Turner
in the club still away, arethaFranklin played the club still
(17:56):
away Del Marocco as well.
She was performing at sheperformed, yeah, all around the
different clubs.
Jimmy Church.
AJ (18:03):
Oh, Lucius Talley, who we saw here with you the other
night.
Yeah, yeah, Lucius.
Lorenzo (18:06):
Spoonman.
Now, lucius used to be adrummer, yeah, you know.
So that's how he got on the maphere.
It was before he startedplaying spoons.
AJ (18:21):
Another namesake, Etta James Mm-hmm playing spoons.
Lorenzo (18:25):
Another namesake Etta James, mm-hmm.
Now Etta James cut her firstlive album at the New Era Club.
Oh, right here, her first liveRock.
The House was the name of thatalbum.
AJ (18:37):
James Brown down there too.
Lorenzo (18:39):
Mm-hmm.
Now, when the artists, whenthey came to Nashville, the
first place that most of themwanted to play at is the New Era
Club, because that's where thelocal crowd is.
You know the local crowd was atthe New Era and you know you're
going to have a packed houseevery weekend night at the New
(19:04):
Era, every weekend night at theNew Era.
So when artists come toNashville they want to check out
the New Era just because ofthat local crowd.
You know that's where I went.
You know a lot back then that'sthe first place that I would go
is the New Era Club.
Yeah, magnificent.
AJ (19:27):
And then there came a time after this period, the 40s to
the 70s where it came to ascreeching halt To talk about
this.
What initiated that?
Why don't we step outside ontothe street to get?
A visceral sense.
I mean, listeners are probablyhearing some of the traffic
behind us, but that's just yeahbut that was Jefferson Street.
Lorenzo (19:44):
You heard traffic sirens, probably hearing some of
the traffic behind us, butthat's just yeah, but that was
jefferson street.
AJ (19:48):
You know, you hear traffic siren and uh, all of that was on
jefferson street so we, as westep outside onto jefferson
street now let's follow thatthread and talk about what
changed in the 70s street soundand that covers all of the
(20:11):
sounds that may have taken placeor that was here on jefferson
street.
Lorenzo (20:31):
now you have to imagine over 600 and something homes
and businesses up and down thestreet, so you had people up and
down the street.
Like right there on the cornerused to be a little grocery
store right there on the corner,across the street, it was an
(20:51):
instrument, a shop where theysold used instruments.
So it was artists and musiciansin and out of that shop over
there all the time.
Right here next door it was anice cream parlor, so you had an
ice cream parlor there and youhad all of these artists and
(21:13):
musicians living in thisboarding house right here.
So you had all of that kind ofaction right here, but you had
houses next to each other, nextdoor to each other.
You had them all the way upjefferson street and you had
little kids up and downjefferson street.
(21:34):
Now you don't see kids on thisstreet.
There's no kids.
But uh, in the uh, 60s and the70s and 50s, 60s and 70s and 50s
, 60s and 70s, it was justpeople lined up, all of these
students.
That was up and down JeffersonStreet.
(21:55):
You had libraries down thestreet, insurance companies, car
dealerships, grocery stores,clothing stores.
You had all of that up and downJefferson Street car
dealerships, grocery stores,clothing stores.
AJ (22:09):
You had all of that up and down Jefferson Street.
It's funny that developmentshould have been thought of as
taking away everything thatyou've already got and that you
need.
Lorenzo (22:19):
Yeah, but it was planned for them to take away
this community, to put theinterstate right through it, to
drain the interstate.
Now they didn't even tell thecommunity what they were going
to do.
Really they didn't even, theydidn't warn the community that
(22:50):
they would go out in theBellmead area and put up flyers
or something to let them knowthat they are getting ready to
cut through Jefferson, cutthrough North Nashville.
But they didn't bring thosesame flyers and that same
information to the actualcommunity, to the actual
community.
So when they came through thecommunity with the bulldozers
(23:12):
and the trucks and all of that,the plan had already been made
years before and I heard theystarted planning this interstate
in the 50s, around 55 orsomething.
But they didn't actually startworking on the interstate until
(23:33):
the early 60s, 63, 64, 5.
And in 67, they were drivingdown the interstate.
In 67, they were driving downthere in the state and they
didn't even want to put a ramp,an off-ramp on Jefferson Street
where you had the threeuniversities over here.
(23:57):
Still, most of the clubs weregone.
Even in the back of thisbuilding.
They took the backyard, we, you, the backyard, went all the way
to the alley and the alley andall of that's gone.
Yeah, yeah when we pulled up.
AJ (24:14):
We're right between the building and the interstate and
the interstate, so that explainssee the interstate went back to
the next street, I mean thebackyard.
Lorenzo (24:24):
You had big backyards, yeah, but not now, no more.
So with all that was going onand just like you hear the
traffic here here but you hit,the only emergency hospital in
(24:53):
the black community was right upthe street here, herbert
Hospital, and that's thehospital that I was born in,
right here on Jefferson Street.
So it was a lot going on and alot to do here on this street,
but the interstate brought thechange to Jefferson Street in
(25:15):
the early 60s.
AJ (25:18):
Let's go back in.
We've got the visceral sense ofthat now, but we'll go back
where it's quieter.
The visceral sense of that now,but we'll go back where it's
quieter.
I can only imagine, Lorenzo,what that felt like at the time
to be ambushed by that sort of achange.
Yeah, what was the sense in thecommunity then?
Lorenzo (25:46):
Well, we felt that they wanted our community Because
right after they came throughhere with the interstate, they
didn't do anything to protectthe community.
As far as you know, they didn'thave good police presence, as
far as you know, they didn'thave good police presence.
(26:07):
There were garbage, you knownot, but trash, you know, on the
streets.
You didn't see the streetsweepers coming through very
often or the prisoners comingthrough with the brooms and the
dustpans and dust pans.
(26:34):
So we were really let down bythe lack of attention that this
community was getting after theinterstate came through here.
But the thing is and I've heardthat the plan was for it to be
like this today, you know, withthe tall and skinnies coming up,
yeah, with the access to theinterstate.
You know, for the people on theother end of Jefferson Street
(26:57):
that has big businesses downthere, but they can get to the
interstate right down the streethere down there, but they can
get to the interstate right downthe street here.
And that was something thatthey needed and they got.
They got Jefferson Street, theygot the interstate and they got
(27:24):
the community.
AJ (27:25):
When I said they, they government the city.
It comes hot on the heels ofthe civil rights movement that
you lived through as well, and Iread in your book the other day
that your granddad's granddadwas a slave, did secure the 40
acres in a mule, unlike manythat had it sort of taken back.
Lorenzo (27:47):
But we only got 24 acres, did you?
Because they sold off some ofthe acres?
There we go.
AJ (27:54):
So your life has also lived through a lot of that
marginalisation.
How was it for you growing upin that You've maintained such a
disposition, a positivedisposition to people?
How did you do that?
Lorenzo (28:10):
Well, when I was a kid, you know, we lived in a
neighborhood across, just acrossthe bridge.
It wasn't far away now, a mileand a half, but we lived in a
community where it was black andwhites living in the community.
Some of our best friends werewhite kids.
(28:30):
They lived in that area that welived in.
It was sort of like it was arural area but it was mixed with
black and whites.
And on this hill up here some ofmy best friends, bubba Fields
(28:52):
that's what his nickname was,bubba Fields, their last name
was Field.
They had a horse and some cowsand chickens and that kind of
stuff on their farm.
A little old farm, kind ofshabby, but you know it was a
(29:13):
farm and we lived down the hillhere and we had a little
four-room house down there andit was like seven, eight of us
living in that house in the headof kitchen.
So it didn't have but two rooms.
That was considered bed, no,three rooms was considered
(29:35):
bedrooms and then the kitchen.
There wasn't no living room ornone of that.
It didn't have that much spacein it.
But we lived in that littlehouse on Wichita Street but
Bubba Fields and them up here onthis end.
We used to go to their housesome weekends and spend the
(29:56):
night and then we'd get up inthe mornings we'd ride the horse
and ride the cow and rode thecow and rode the cow and he had
a little motorcycle and we'dride the little motorcycle.
So we had a ball up there atBubba Fields Now.
But Bubba Fields used to loveto come to our house and spend
(30:20):
the night because of my mother'scooking.
She'd cook a big breakfast andspend the night because of my
mother's cooking.
She'd cook a big breakfast.
She'd have eggs and friedchicken and biscuits, you know,
for breakfast and he loved tocome to our house for breakfast.
We loved to go there because hehad the cows and the horses.
AJ (30:38):
I should clarify too biscuits here are what we call
scones back home.
So people think biscuits, butthey're more like cookies for us
.
Cookies for breakfast, what?
No, they're scones, we callthem.
Lorenzo (30:48):
Oh scones.
AJ (30:50):
Yeah, so scones for breakfast Sounds lovely.
Oh, and so a nod to your mothertoo, because I have to say,
like, right behind you, it'salmost my favourite feature of
this museum is her old turntable.
Lorenzo (31:08):
Yeah, this is a turntable here we call it a
record player because it playedrecords, because it played
records and it had a radio alsoand that was the old record
player that my mother you'd goin the house and hear the music.
You know it wasn't no big dealand that's just what they played
music on after we gotelectricity.
(31:29):
Because, uh, we didn't getelectricity until I was about 12
years old and we gotelectricity.
That's when we could play.
You know, something like thisbut uh, and the backwater man.
We remember the backwater wouldcome through every year and old
(31:50):
Bubba Field and them had a boat.
Laughter, they had a.
It was a paddle boat, you know,but they had a boat, you know
when the backwater come about,every three years the backwater
would come in and the backwaterwould get this high in our house
.
AJ (32:09):
Like chest high.
Lorenzo (32:10):
Yeah, chest high in the house and we'd have to wait
until the water go down.
And when the water would godown we'd have to go in and
scrub the walls down and thefloors and move back in.
AJ (32:27):
This is fascinating because I mean, I take it that's the
Cumberland River.
That would do that.
The Cumberland River, and whatstopped it?
Are there dams upstream now?
Lorenzo (32:36):
The dams.
AJ (32:37):
Yeah, it's interesting because, because like right now
down there.
Lorenzo (32:41):
Do you know they got all of those apartments and uh
housing down there.
Yes, and we were wondering well,what are they going to do about
the backwater?
But they fixed the backwater.
You know, downstream, yeah,yeah, the dams and stuff
interesting.
So they're not concerned withthe backwater because the
(33:02):
backwater used to come up andcome across Jefferson Street.
You couldn't go straight downJefferson Street, you'd have to
turn at 10th and go around andcome back down at 6th, 5th, 5th
and 6th and get back onJefferson, because the backwater
(33:23):
would have part of JeffersonStreet cut off.
AJ (33:26):
So amongst a range of things .
What's really interesting to meis that you still describe your
childhood as full of love andhappiness.
Lorenzo (33:34):
Yeah, but that was just how we were taught.
You know, my mother was a kind,good, good lady and we picked
that up from her.
She had me going through theneighborhood taking care of the
little old ladies in theneighborhood, cutting the grass
and running to the store forthem.
(33:55):
I was doing that at eight,seven, eight years old, you know
, doing for the neighbors,especially the ladies, and so we
were taking care of them backwhen I was seven, eight years
(34:15):
old.
So I learned kindness throughmy mother and it came with me.
You know, right today, you know, if I see a person, especially
an older person, in need,although I'm an older, person.
Karen (34:34):
now I almost got a sigh.
Lorenzo (34:40):
You know I have arised, you know, but the way I look at
it, you know, I don't feel, youknow, that older person, you
know.
So I'm still looking to help,so I'm still looking to help.
AJ (35:00):
Well, let's walk through a little bit, hey, and come back
to how you arrived.
Lorenzo (35:08):
Like you set, this up in what was it 2011?
How you?
AJ (35:11):
arrived decades later thinking I've got to do this.
What was that spark or thatcompulsion?
Lorenzo (35:17):
that made you start.
Well, see, marion James andthese older artists were still
living.
Yeah, yeah, you know most ofthem has died out since I
started the museum, and so I wasencouraged and inspired, you
(35:48):
know, to continue on.
And then, once most of thempassed, then I said I've got to
do it now in order to keep theirlegacy going.
And that's what I did, evenwhen they came here from the
Smithsonian Mrs Ruskins, she'sup there with Michael Gray,
(36:10):
michael Gray with the whiteshirt on Well, he's over at the
Country Music Hall of Fame andshe's from the Smithsonian near
Washington, and she's from theSmithsonian near Washington.
And they came and they asked meif I could pull some of the
(36:30):
artists together that grew up,you know, here on Jefferson
Street, grew up performing, andI said yeah, because I was sort
of in touch with them, and so Ipulled together this group right
here.
There's Miss Marion James, ohwow, she's deceased.
Now there's Frank Howard he'sstill performing.
(36:51):
There's Jesse Boyce.
Jesse Boyce is deceased now.
There's Nick Nixon, and NickNixon is deceased now.
And there's Clifford Curry.
Clifford Curry is deceased.
There's D Ford Bailey I'm sureyou've heard of him you heard.
(37:13):
His daddy is what they'repromoting now.
And there's pictures of himright there.
Yeah, incredible story.
And he's deceased now.
And there's pictures of himright there, yeah, incredible
story.
And he's deceased now.
And there's Spoon man Spoon manLucy, spoon man Talley.
And there's Jimmy Church.
And there is Don Adams oh, wow,and this gentleman here, jimmy
(37:39):
Odie.
Jimmy Odie was the drummer forJames, not James Brown, little
Richard, for a few years.
AJ (37:49):
Yeah, so you were the conduit for these bigger
institutions.
Yeah as well, yeah.
Lorenzo (37:56):
Even with the African American Museum downtown.
I went down and told some of mystory and they brought a whole
busload of their people here tolearn my stories and I didn't
think I had any stories worthtelling that meant anything
(38:20):
until I started getting doinginterviews and and I'm I'm not a
good interviewer I tell folk ina minute.
I'm not great at interviewingat all.
I just tell my story and hopeyou take it, uh, like it's
presented to you.
AJ (38:38):
you know from the heart uh, like it's presented to you.
You know from the heart, thebest kind you know.
So you started in 2011 and onthat note, then we were talking
the other day, I said did ittake off straight away or did it
take a bit of time?
And you said it took a bit oftime and as much because, like
we're talking, a few years andas much because you needed to
build your confidence up in theway that you're describing yeah,
(39:00):
and I said so.
You started it before you wereconfident oh yeah, yeah, I was.
Lorenzo (39:06):
I was scared to death to get in front of a microphone.
I you know that was one of theworst things you could do to me
is put a microphone in front ofme, you know, uh, but now I have
a different kind of confidence.
It's not that I feel like I'mgood at it or anything, is that?
(39:28):
Uh, just go on and tell yourstory.
Yeah, you know, that's, that's.
That's where I'm at now.
I'll just go on and tell youknow, and try to answer the
questions as best that I can.
AJ (39:42):
Right on.
Okay, so we've moved into thisroom.
Let's bring listeners back intohow it feels we're in this.
What was this room?
Was this your dining room?
This was my living room.
It was your living room andit's full of.
I'll put photos up on thewebsite.
It's full of these images, someof which you've been referring
to.
I've got your book to my righthere.
I've got an extraordinarydisplay here.
(40:04):
You said it was the first itemin here, I think did you One of
the first?
Lorenzo (40:12):
That's one of the first articles that I put on the
walls.
It started with that wall backthere and then this wall, and
how did that?
AJ (40:18):
come to be here and then this wall.
Lorenzo (40:21):
And how did that come to be here?
Well, because they were thewalls that I felt you could see
first when you come in here.
This wall was right here whereyou could see it when you come
in the room, and that wall wasnext to the stairwell here where
(40:41):
you go up and down to thestudio.
And most of these artists onthis people on this wall had
something to do with hip-hop,the rap musics.
I had a couple of rappers thatI helped promote, along with Don
Adams there Now Don Adams didthe first album that we had here
(41:08):
on Jefferson Street.
I don't know of another albumbeing cut and released on
Jefferson Street before DonAdams, and that was here in the
museum.
AJ (41:19):
That was here in the museum upstairs and now you're getting
instruments donated.
It's become a real place wherepeople are giving more and more
things like these two pianos.
Lorenzo (41:29):
Right right, these pianos were donated.
The one on that side wasdonated by Dr WO Smith's
daughter, jackie Smith, andJackie was a singer a jazz
singer and she ended up movingfrom Nashville to California and
(41:51):
she didn't have room for thepiano, so she donated the piano
to the museum.
Now this piano over here wasdonated by Marion James's cousin
and she wrote her only hitrecord on that piano.
And that hit record was that'smy man and it was a 45.
(42:13):
And she wrote the song playingthis piano and that was the only
hit song that she wrote.
AJ (42:25):
It's an amazing song.
Well, so are the rest of themHits or not?
Yeah, right.
Lorenzo (42:32):
She was a romantic singer.
She sung about romantic thingsall the time.
AJ (42:42):
Yeah.
And then we cut left into aroom that's sort of notable for
being full of framed photos andold promotional posters.
Right.
Lorenzo (42:54):
This is the room where most of the artifacts are.
And most of these artifactswere donated by different
artists and some by friends ofartists you know and relatives
of different artists.
Now this vest right here wasdonated by Jesse Boyce and Jesse
(43:20):
played bass guitar for LittleRichard.
There's a picture of him upthere and Jesse played with
Little Richard for about 20years.
And Jesse Boyce also got pickedup by Barry Gordy at Motown and
he ended up leaving Nashvilleand going to Detroit and playing
(43:43):
with Motown writing for Motownfor four or five years.
Matter of fact, that guitar upthere on the wall was Jesse
Boyce's guitar and on thatguitar he wrote the song firefly
and he got a platinum recordfor that song firefly that the
(44:08):
temptations uh recorded, yeah,and he wrote it on that, wrote
the song on that guitar andabout three weeks before he died
he brought that guitar overhere and signed it and donated
it to the museum.
So that's a treasured piece.
And Jesse was also one of mybusiness partners when I got
(44:34):
into the music in 75.
In the record store In therecord, moses Dillard and Jesse
Boyce had a production company,dillard and Boyce Production,
and they were over on Music Row.
Matter of fact, they were thefirst black production company
(44:58):
to be accepted on Music Row andthey seeked me out of the
community to come and partnerwith them.
So I did and I was one of thepartners.
I went from the record store, Ihad a record store, I went from
owning a record store to beinga part of the record business
(45:21):
and those guys cut one album andthe album is in there in the
case.
Cut an album Saturday NightBand Come On, dance, dance.
They got two Grammy nominations, yeah, and you were on it.
AJ (45:34):
Yeah, you wrote a piece.
Lorenzo (45:36):
Yeah, I wrote a piece on the second one.
AJ (45:38):
But you said you had no idea about music.
No, I didn't.
How did you do?
But you said you had no ideaabout music.
No, I didn't.
Lorenzo (45:42):
How did you do that?
I didn't have no idea aboutnone of this stuff, but here I
am, you know, in a seriousconversation about all this
stuff.
AJ (45:55):
And you've got awards.
Can I say they're coming out ofyour ears now.
Lorenzo (45:59):
Yeah, I've gotten quite a few Getting ready to go to
Knoxville tomorrow to receiveanother award.
So, yeah, I've gotten notorietyfrom all of this stuff that I'm
doing.
AJ (46:15):
You've got a day named after you.
Lorenzo (46:17):
Yeah, I've got a day named after you.
Yeah, got a day named after me.
One of the April the 3rd herein Nashville, tennessee, is my
day.
It's a given day for LorenzoWashington Day.
Whoever would have expectedthat kind of stuff?
AJ (46:35):
you know, it must say something.
I think it says a lot about ourdeep appreciation for the
stories of our places.
Lorenzo (46:45):
Yeah, yeah, and it's all about the stories.
You know what folk want to hear.
When they come in this littlemuseum, they look at the
pictures, but how does it relateto what took place on Jefferson
Street my stories?
AJ (47:05):
Right on.
So what happens next with thisplace then?
Where are you heading with itnow?
Lorenzo (47:13):
Well, we've got a couple of programs that we've
implemented and one the main onethat's going to take us forward
with the museum and with thestories and with the talent, is
Seymour S-Y-M-O-R.
(47:35):
Start your Month Off Right, andthat's a feature that we've
gotten started here and wefeature different artists and we
have an open mic kind of thingdoing part of the Seymour Night,
(47:59):
and what we're doing isbringing the community, the
musical community, back together.
You know, through the open micand the Seymour featuring
artists, that kind of thing.
We do it the first Monday ofevery month, for right now, when
it gets warm, we'll take itoutside.
AJ (48:22):
And we had that story night.
Lorenzo (48:24):
you know the legacy story night the other night,
yeah, the legacy night we haveit, where we are interviewing
some of the older artists andgetting their story down on tape
, you know.
So one day we'll be able toplay these tapes and let them
(48:46):
tell you some of their storiesabout what took place on
Jefferson.
AJ (48:52):
Street.
I was curious too, because inthat conversation you
articulated a vision of a dinnerclub.
Lorenzo (48:57):
Oh yeah, that's my vision.
I don't know if nobody else hasthat vision.
Karen may have joined in withme on that vision, but what I'd
like to see on the street or inthis community is a nice dinner
club that would hold about 110,15 people and bring in artists
(49:23):
from around the country thatsing the blues.
You know people that's justgetting started that don't cost
you a lot of money and let themperform some of these old songs
that these older musicians wouldperform and just have good food
(49:46):
and good music back here onJefferson Street.
AJ (49:52):
Given the reaction to this museum, I can't see how it
wouldn't work.
Lorenzo (49:57):
Well, it just takes a bunch of money, wouldn't work.
Well, it just takes a bunch ofmoney.
You know it's going to take afew million dollars to buy the
properties you know and build abuilding.
AJ (50:10):
But the money's coming in in one form or other, isn't it at
the moment?
So just a bit of it that way.
Lorenzo (50:14):
Well, just enough to keep us keep the stories going.
AJ (50:19):
Yeah, it's a beautiful vision, yeah, and notable,
having watched the PBS storyExit 207, about the interstate
coming through and transformingthis community.
but then about your work wasalso the work of Carlos with the
Nashville Black Market, and wewent to the Black Market last
Friday.
Oh, you did, yeah, the firstone for the year, apparently, as
(50:40):
things are starting to thaw outa bit, yeah.
And yeah, the way he was withyou on that show too, looked
like a real I don't know hispassing of the baton, too much
to say, but it's a similar ilk.
He's gone and set up this blackmarket, african-american market
, small business, music, amazingfood, kids on the street.
(51:06):
It was that vibe.
So sure now it's, it's overthere, but still on, still
connected to jefferson,connected yeah and and there is
next generation coming on withthis stuff too.
Are you seeing a bit of that?
Lorenzo (51:19):
yeah, well, it's not a lot, but it has to start
somewhere, and carlos is, andCarlos has sort of fell into
that mold that I'd like to seetake place here on Jefferson
Street.
(51:40):
And you have to have nerve, youknow, to step out front to do
these things that we're doing totry to revive the community,
the street.
And I'm not just saying thestreet, I'm saying the community
(52:00):
, because now we've gotBuckhannon up here and
Buckhannon they're investingmore in that street because it
was more property, it was morereal estate, you know, over
there on Buckhannon than it wason Jefferson Street, because
(52:23):
here on Jefferson Street you gotthe interstate bagged right up
to the properties over here onJefferson Street so you don't
have the footage.
You know, going back, just likeback here, you know it stops
right there.
Now you couldn't put a parkinglot back there.
(52:44):
You know you can park four orfive cars and then they're going
to catch the blues getting outof there if it's that many, you
know.
So you have to.
You just have to be careful howyou spend your money when you
come over here on Jefferson, youknow, and you have to have a
(53:07):
lot of nerve to come over hereand invest, because you're going
to have some years before yourecoup your first money you know
, it's going to take you threeor four years to establish
yourself, and to a point ofmaking a profit.
(53:30):
Now, can you afford those threeor four years?
AJ (53:34):
It seems like a small price to pay for what you gain, and
I'm looking at you havingtransformed your house into this
and seeing what it's floweringthat you had that patience.
Lorenzo (53:47):
Yeah, but instead of me it taking three or four years,
it took 13 years.
Yeah yeah, you know, but I havelived through those 13 years.
I have lived past those 13years, and so that's why I'm
able to stand here and talk toyou, because I endured.
AJ (54:09):
Would you do it again?
Are there key lessons or piecesof advice out of your
experience?
Lorenzo (54:15):
If I was the age that I was 13 years ago, I might would
say yeah, but being that I'm 13years older than those years, I
probably would say no.
AJ (54:30):
Yeah.
If it was now, yeah, I probablywould say no.
Yeah, yeah, if it was now, yeah, I probably would say no, but
there was a bigger drive for you, it was a bigger call, it just
had to be done.
Lorenzo (54:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I felt that in my heart that itneeded to be done.
AJ (54:50):
And as you went.
Lorenzo (54:51):
Then you found a way.
Yeah, I found a way.
You know how do you explainthat Now?
That I can't explain that Ican't explain.
AJ (54:59):
Yeah, really Endurance you know, I'm really interested in
this bit that you can't explain,because this is a common story,
right?
People just feel that they'vegot to do it, and they do their
thing.
It turns out incredible,inspires so many people, and and
then other people are sittingthere going, oh I couldn't do it
.
I couldn't do what I'm thinkingof, though.
(55:20):
It'd be pretty hard.
Lorenzo (55:22):
I'd have to be in it for years before any money came
back, or whatever right, right,right now, uh, a couple of my
friends, uh, friends, one ofthem bought him a new Corvette,
one of them bought him a Lexusand one of them lives in one of
these tall and skinniesoverlooking downtown.
Now I say, that could have beenme.
(55:44):
Yes, exactly, I could haveafforded that at one time, you
know, but I chose to grind itout here in this little museum.
I decided that I was not goingto allow the legacy of these
(56:08):
great artists and musicians, andespecially the ones that didn't
make it to stardom.
I was not going to let themdown, you know, I was going to
do something to keep their headsheld high.
And that's what I did with thislittle museum, because now it's
(56:29):
being known around the world,not just here in Nashville, not
just here in North Nashville.
It's gone from just the folkaround here knowing about it to
now you spreading the word inAustralia, and it's been
spreaded in Australia, and it'sbeen spread in Europe, in France
(56:54):
, in Canada, in Mexico.
So it's being spread all aroundnow.
And we're going.
Now they're calling us to cometo different places to pick up
these different awards, us tocome to different places to pick
up these different awards.
And so now we're being awardedfor keeping this museum alive
(57:16):
and keeping the people in thismuseum alive.
AJ (57:20):
Yep, as I stand here, I feel like I'm surrounded in riches,
so here's to that.
To close, lorenzo, extremelyfitting in this context, I
actually ask my guests whatmusic would we go out with after
this conversation?
Is there a piece that standsout in your mind right now or
something that's been with youfor a long time, maybe when you
(57:43):
were a kid?
Lorenzo (57:44):
Well, the piece now that goes out is back in the day
that Marian James sung, andit's about Jefferson Street.
AJ (57:54):
Brilliant.
We've been listening to Mariansince we were here on Saturday.
Lorenzo (57:59):
But you hadn't heard this one on Marian back in the
day and it sings about the clubs.
Let me see if I can come upwith something here just to give
you a quick listen, right?
Marion James (58:20):
Nashville, tennessee, that's history.
On a road named JeffersonStreet.
(58:46):
Back in the day, that was allthe gold Gateway.
Back in the day, that was allthe gold Gateway, jefferson
Street.
Jazz and Blues that is the road.
Oh, up in Jefferson you couldstop at Good Jelly John.
(59:09):
You could get a littlemoonshine and wine and it's
close.
You could slide on in there,have a good time.
Back in the day, that was allthe gold Jefferson Street.
(59:36):
Jazz and blues that is the road.
Back in the day, back in theday, back in the day, back in
(01:00:00):
the day, back in the day, backin the day, oh Lord, that was
all ago.
Twelting jellies, son, youcould stop at Stoops and eat a
(01:00:24):
little barbecue Right across thestreet.
Now, y'all, you can have a goodtime At Cozy Corner too.
Ease on down.
The club still awake.
Johnny Jones and Jimmy ChurchJust began to play Browns Dental
(01:00:55):
Club.
Charles Dungeon played his play.
Sounds so good.
Now Kinda wanna get up, shakeup the mass play.
(01:01:19):
Back in the day, that was allthe gold Gateway, jefferson
Street.
That is the road Back in theday in the day, back in the day,
(01:01:45):
back in the day, back in theday, back in the day, back in
the day.
Oh Lord, that was all ago.
From Fish University to TSU,you could have a ball at Club
(01:02:18):
Demarocco too.
Jimmy Henry, billy Cox on bass,island Boy Sam, not letting the
music go to waste.
Club baron, oh, it's ready.
Little Richard too.
Oh hey, having a Sunday jamjust for you.
(01:02:44):
Don't forget, girl.
Behind the green door when theyplay, don't forget the prize.
Behind the green door when theyplay, everyone hit the floor.
That's every day, that's thestreet every day.
(01:03:07):
That's every dayets were streetjazz and blues Back in the day.
Oh yeah, that was all ago.
One more time now.
Back in the day, oh hey, backin the day.
(01:03:30):
One more time now.
Back, back, back, back, ah hey,back, back, back, back, back,
back back Talking about a littlegirl Playing, back, back, back
back.
Lorenzo (01:03:41):
Couldn't miss her.
She's gonna meet Jackie Shanetoo.
Really Back, back, back back.
Marion James (01:03:59):
Ah, ah, ah, ah, back, back, back, back, really
Back in the day, back in the day.
That was all the time.
Back in the day, Back in theday, back in the day.
AJ (01:04:28):
Back in the day.
What album is that?
Lorenzo (01:04:36):
off.
It's a single that she did forme.
Oh, really yeah, and weproduced it right here upstairs.
She couldn't go up the stepswhen she did this, so she sat
right in there beside the tableand we brought microphones
(01:04:59):
downstairs to her and sherecorded it sitting right in
there in that room.
AJ (01:05:04):
No way.
Lorenzo (01:05:06):
Yeah, that's brilliant, and we brought a band in
different band members.
Oh, the band's brilliant, andwe brought a band in different
band members.
AJ (01:05:12):
Oh, the band was great.
That's amazing, lorenzo, I'm soglad you played that.
Yeah Well, lorenzo, I can'tthank you enough.
I love what you guys are doing,thank you.
Thanks for speaking with me.
Lorenzo (01:05:24):
Yes sir, yes sir.
AJ (01:05:27):
That was Lorenzo Washington, founder and curator of the
Jefferson Street Sound Museum.
I've put a bunch of photos onthe website and, of course,
various links in the show notes.
As usual, I'll have more forpaid subscribers on Patreon and
Substack soon, a great thanksfor making it all possible.
You can join these great peopleby heading to the website or
the show notes and following theprompts.
(01:05:47):
The music you're hearing isRegeneration by Amelia Barden.
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening.
Than yo yo.
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