August 6, 2025 • 33 mins
What lessons can leaders draw from championship-winning coaches? Kevin is joined by Chantal Vallée, who discusses her academic research on leadership and coaching success across sports, business, education, and healthcare. She identified four essential elements shared by great leaders: a compelling vision, strong organizational skills, a focus on individual development, and the ability to utilize key leadership traits. Together, Kevin and Chantal explore topics like setting a vision, handling pressure, and trusting the process. Chantal also offers practical tools for leadership, including the Council of Advisors and symbolic team-building exercises.
Listen For
00:00 Welcome to the Remarkable Leadership Podcast
00:39 Join Our Live Recordings
01:05 About Flexible Leadership
01:32 Introducing Chantal Vallée
02:48 Chantal’s Journey from Player to Coach
04:14 Why Chantal Wrote Her Book
05:13 Research Behind High-Performance Teams
06:28 Applying Research to Build a Championship Team
07:09 The Four-Part Leadership Framework
08:57 The Power of Vision
09:38 Organizational Skills as a Leadership Pillar
10:37 Investing in Individual Growth
11:12 Leadership Attributes: The Full Spectrum
11:42 Connecting to Flexible Leadership
12:02 Clarifying Organizational Skills
12:54 The Five-Year Vision and Recruiting
14:17 Making the Vision Real Through Staged Goals
16:19 Trusting the Process
17:28 Sacrificing Short-Term Wins for Long-Term Culture
18:29 Teaching Culture Through Strategic Decisions
19:13 Undervalued Leadership Attribute
20:27 The Importance of Lifelong Learning
21:34 Building a Council of Advisors
24:17 Inclusive Decision-Making as a Leader
25:06 Leading After a Crushing Defeat
26:10 Symbolism of the Hill and Letting Go
28:32 Applying Coaching Lessons to Business Leadership
28:52 Coaching Men’s Professional Basketball
30:22 Rapid Organizational Transformation
30:35 What Chantal Does for Fun
31:22 Recommended Book: Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself
32:14 Final Thoughts and Next Steps
Chantal's Story: Chantal Vallée is the author of Dare to Win: The Blueprint to Building and Leading High Performance and Championship Teams. She is the Windsor Lancers Women’s Basketball Coach and transformed a last-place team into five-time national champions. She was also the first woman worldwide to coach and manage a men’s professional team (Hamilton Honey Badgers), guiding them to the finals. Chantal Vallée lives in Windsor, ON.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Coachingand team development seem to exist
in at least two realms, in sportsand in business.
Are they connected?
And what can one learn from oneto apply to the other?
Our guest today has Bridge that Gapand has tremendous insights for us all.
Welcome to another episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast,
(00:30):
where we are helping leadersgrow personally and professionally
to lead more effectively,to make a bigger difference
for their teams, organizationsand the world.
If you are listening to this podcastin the future,
you could be with us, liveon your favorite social media channel.
You can find out when those episodesare taking place, so you can join us
and interact with usand really get this life
(00:54):
changing information sooner.
By joining eitherour Facebook or LinkedIn groups
to the channelsin which these are published or broadcast.
And so you can join our Facebook
or LinkedIn groupsto get all of that inside scoop.
Just go to remarkable podcast.com/facebook
(01:14):
or remarkable 5.com/linkedinto get all of that.
Today's episode is brought to youby my latest book.
Flexible leadership navigate uncertaintyand lead with confidence.
It's time to realize that stylescan get in our way, and that following
our strengthsmight not always be the best approach.
In a worldmore complex and uncertain than ever.
(01:34):
Leaders need a new perspectiveand a new set of tools to get
the great results their organizationsand team members want and need.
That's where flexible leadership comes in.
Hope that you will learn more and orderyour copy now
by going to remarkablepodcast.com/flexible.
And with that let me bring in my guest.
(01:56):
And her name is Sean Tao.
By which I know I can't possiblysay it as well as she does.
She's originally from Quebec, Canada.
She is the leader Lancerswomen's basketball coach,
and she transformed the last place teaminto a five time national champion.
(02:17):
She was also the first woman womanworldwide to coach
and managea men's professional team at Hamilton.
You can see a jersey overher head if you're watching.
Guidingthem to the finals in their first season.
She is the coauthor of the book To Win
the Blueprint Blueprint for BuildingWomen's and Championship Teams.
(02:40):
She lives in Windsor, Ontario now,and she's our guest today.
Chantelle,we have a little bit of feedback,
but I'm so glad that you're here.
Well, that's.
And I'm Kevin,it's a pleasure for me to be here.
So I'll try to not talk too much sowe won't have too much of that feedback.
Let's just start here.
Your story is interesting, right?
And I hinted at ita little bit in the short bio, but, like,
(03:04):
how do you end up doing what you do?
Like, tell us a little bitmore about the path to being a,
women's basketball player.
Well, like many, young boys and girls,I play a lot of sports.
I enjoy playing sports and I came froma very rural small town close to Montreal.
(03:26):
But as I grew older, there was nonot enough
a girls that wanted to be in sportand play basketball.
And, I was very disappointed about this.
I wanted to continue.
And so what happened is that,the city offered me to start some mini
basketball teams and camps,which I said, okay, well,
I guess if I can't play, I'mgoing to start coaching.
(03:47):
And slowly this is how I started toto coach until this became a profession.
And I've been a professional coachnow for almost 20 seasons, 20 years.
There you go.
That's a that's athat's a great story in itself.
And some of you who are listeningor watching know
that I happen to be a basketballfan has come up on occasion.
So I'm especially excited to have you hereand for us to chat.
(04:10):
What led though to a book?
So like I hinted at this in the open.
So let me just saya little bit about this.
Like, so you're doing coachingand then you go to McGill
and studyleadership at the master's level.
So I'm surethat has something to do with the book.
So, like, tell us a little bit about
how you end up coming toto writing the book.
(04:32):
Yeah.
So, I was a graduate studentat McGill University in Montreal, and,
and I was, wanting to researchwhat makes coaching successful for me.
I wanted to find the key.
I wanted to get into coaching,and I didn't want to be mediocre.
I didn't want to be bottom of the packor middle of the pack.
I want to win championships.
So I'm thinking I've got,you know, 2 to 3 years in grad school
(04:54):
to really try to figure outwhat makes the best leader successful.
And we really focus with my, supervisor,who's now the coauthor of this book.
We really focus on leadership at large.
And we we looked at business and military,healthcare, education
and all the leaders and how they are ableto transform companies or organizations.
And then for the research part of it,we really went specifically
(05:16):
into coaches of team sports,and we look into the coaches
and how to transformany team into a champion.
And we really studied and research themthrough a research project.
We're finding, for higher order categoriesof what those successful coaches do,
which are also applicable, like youmentioned, given straight into business.
(05:37):
And, we were able to prove this publishin terms of a peer review article.
We actually wrote two.
And then I wentand I became the basketball coach
at the University of Windsor, a teamthat was last for several seasons.
And, they had only hadfour winning seasons in about 50 years.
And I applied the research that I learned.
(05:59):
So I literally just applied itover a period of ten years.
I recontact that my master's supervisorand I said, Doctor Bloom,
I think we should write a a book.
And he was just thinking the same thing.
So what we did in the bookis, is explain the theory
so that everybody can pick it upand replicate, replicate it.
But also it's filled
with motivational storiesthroughout that make the book
(06:21):
interesting, and motivationalinspiring at the same time.
So that's how we came about to,write the book.
So everybodyChantelle is not going to say this,
but she's not only the coauthorof the book, she's the star of the book
because a lot of the book is writtenfrom the perspective of the stories,
from all of the, the, the basketball stuffbuilding the teams and the challenges
(06:43):
and all those sorts of thingsalong the way.
So we'll talk aboutsome of those as we go.
But I really want to get into some of what
you learned and then applybecause I do think, you know, so often,
as leaders inbusinesses who happen to be sports fans,
we like look at sports teams,a lot of sports coaches,
and we we tell stories about that,but we don't really think about
(07:05):
how we can cross apply the lessons.
And and you've lived that.
So I want us to talk aboutsome of those things.
You talk very early in the book about,three circles
hooked together, that lead to talkabout these three things.
We'll put them on the screen.
Individual growth, organizational skillsand leaders attributes.
(07:26):
And so I'd like you to talk a little.
All of us know those words.
But tell us about what you mean.
And each of those subsets of your research
individual growth, organizational skillsleaders attributes.
Talk about those just a little bit.
Yeah.
So Kevin, at the end of it,when we had research, all the top coaches
and what they had doneto transform their organization,
(07:48):
we had about,you know, 2000 pages of notes
and research journals and datathat we had to go in there and analyze.
And what we didis just kind of take the main,
every single
little topic that was addressed.
We put label into these topics,
and then we say if we could groupsome topics and some labels together.
(08:09):
And at the end we found, you know,higher order categories, which those three
are part of, of it to say, you know,these are kind of the
three main areas of,
the summarizes what coaches are
successful coaches,how they are better in others and doing
and in the middle of these three areasis the vision.
(08:31):
So there was kind of thesefour higher order categories,
if you wish, that were up there.
And so for the, the, the, the, the vision,since you have it
now on the screen for a quick seconddivision became kind of the central piece
of what makes every leader successful.
So without a vision, there was just work,but not in achievement
(08:54):
of any kind of significant goalfor the organization.
With a vision that said, for example,we want it.
So when I took Windsor,
I just took my research and says, well,I know we're lost in the country, but
I want to transform this program and proveto be national champion in five years.
That was a clear vision, and the visionshave to be always on the verge
of a little bit, seemingly not sureif it's going to be possible.
(09:18):
And from there you then divide itinto subcategories, where you put
achievable goals and where you can putyour KPIs and get to to target those.
But the vision has to be substantiallykind of like grandiose in a way
where the coaches didit all, did that, somebody that
had never won anything would, would say,we want to win a gold medal.
(09:38):
We want to get to this level.
And then on the right side of the circle,then taking this organizational skills
and that that in itselfis all the planning,
the management and administrationpart of the job of any leader.
Leader isn't good at that.
It's not going to be as successfulinto implementing the vision.
So it's really about learning to developthat side of of of leaders as well.
(10:02):
On the left side of the model,
there's the individual growth, which,the research showed that leaders
that really invest in their subordinatesor coaches invest in the players
for the sake of their individual growthand not for the sake of winning,
find that there are more successfuland winning becomes a byproduct of this.
(10:24):
And so there's athere's a transformational process in the,
the player or the subordinatethat happens in that relationship
and that, thatthat's search for help, individual growth
that is very beneficialto the overall vision.
And the last pieceis the leaders attribute,
which is that coachestend to think or leaders tend
to think that to be goodat something you have a skill
(10:47):
needs to be somewhat balanced,somewhat in the middle.
So if you can be tough or caring,you're going to be a little bit
a little bit of both in the middle.
But the research showsthat you have to be all of these.
So not just balance,
but you need to be able to go absolutelyon the left side of the spectrum,
absolute the right side of the spectrumand choose the right moment to,
really, embody that leadership trait
(11:09):
when it's needed at the right time,which is very difficult to do.
Everybody is talking about the core ideain my new book,
Flexible Leadership right there.
It's not about it's not about either or.
It's about both.
And, 100%, I agree with that.
I want to go backto the organizational skills
circle or chunk of the model.
(11:29):
Would it be safe to say.
And I'm gonna try and I'm not tryingto change your words, but to clarify,
would it be safe to say thatmost of what we think of as management
skills fits into that one of the circles?
Is that a fair thing to say?
Yeah.
So the management skill is, is interestingbecause I think there's been a long,
(11:50):
confusion with leadershipwhere people, confuse
being a leader and being a managerand a two completely different things.
And so you can have really good leadersthat can inspire and say,
we're going to do this,
but a terrible manager of people,the terrible managers at the time.
So, so there's some, some,some different there to make.
(12:11):
So in that particular circle,which is organizational
skills, wewhat we did at the time is really put in,
thingsthat were more of organizational nature.
We didn't really portraythis as being managing people per se.
So we talk about planning administrativetasks, preparing a season
in terms of coaching,maybe the prioritization part of
(12:31):
of of an athlete for peakingand things like that. So,
you know, achieving targets.
This was that categoryin terms of managing people.
It would reflect and reflecta little bit more, in the category
of the individual growthand the leaders attribute where now
the soft skill of a personis clearly demonstrated
(12:52):
through these two categories of that,that research.
One of the things that,I really liked about the book is
and it's early in the book, in the sectionthat where you're talking about vision,
is your five year plan,
that you laid out for the Lancerswhen you joined them as a coach
with a long history,as you just said, of not being very good.
(13:13):
And and and a five year goalof being national champions.
And so you,
it's like a one pager, at least it appearsto be from looking at in the book.
And one of the things thatyou said was, as you were,
even as you were recruiting players,
you were using that one pager,if you will, that plan, that long
term, five year plan,as a part of your recruitment or,
(13:38):
you know, yeah, your recruitment strategyto select the people
that you wanted to have, joinyour team, talk a little bit more about
the idea of that five year plan
and then how you did,in fact use it, with your teams.
Yeah.
So when I envision winning a championship,
(13:58):
I realized I didn't have at the moment,the team capable of doing that.
So we needed to go and recruit.
Players were also graduating.
So there was athere was going to be a change over in the
the players that we had.
And so when, when you shopso how we recruit is that, you know,
we identify the playersand we do home visits.
So when I showed up to the home visit,
(14:20):
I would bring a binderand I would explain, my vision.
So, I know we're not really good rightnow, but, you know, if you stick with us,
if you decideyou can play here in five years,
here's where we're going to beand here's going to be your experience.
So I was using this as a,
an inspirational tool,but also a show of there is a vision here.
(14:40):
We're not just coming to
try to be the best and,do you know, go by the seat of our pants.
We're we're intentional.We have an intention.
We have a desire.
We have, emotions geared toward this.
And when an application as welltowards really transforming this program.
So that was very usefulbecause some recruits
and some parents would say,now this is never going to happen.
And others were really intrigued.
(15:02):
And slowly,they would resonate with this vision.
And now we knew we had a match,to come to come play for us.
And so when we actually, establishes two
and you mentioned given it's importantthat it's not just we're going to be here
in five years, but how are we going to be
where are we going to be near four in yearthree in year two, and in year one.
(15:22):
So for the player and the team,it'd be like, this is where we are.
So this year we only want to get so far.
And that is a big stepcompared to where we were last year.
So this yearwe want to have a winning season.
That is the first thing we want to do.
We're not talking about winningchampionship.
We're talking about establishinggreat habit
to help us to build this foundationso we can have a winning season.
(15:43):
And then we get moving up like thisevery year.
And this waythe whole vision seems slowly, realistic.
Whereas the overall part ofit may seem unrealistic.
Yeah, that's one of the thingsthat struck me about it is that, yeah.
I mean, yeah, you'd love to wina championship in three years.
But really, you say this, this is thisis our process to get there in five years.
(16:06):
And even though it's a very greatyear, were grandiose goal from the start,
one that many
people didn't really believe or buy intowhen they started to see
the stair steps along that way,I think it made a big difference.
I think that,
for anyone who were to read this book,if that if all you got was that,
(16:27):
that would be of great value,I would say, I want to.
You've hinted at it,and I just hinted at it to
one of the things that you wrote, and I
agree with wholeheartedly,and I'd like you to talk
a little bit more about,is this phrase trust the process? Yes.
I think that's so often.
(16:47):
Leaders have trouble with this.
And they have trouble
helping other folks see this.
So what does it meanto you to say trust the process?
And Iwant to say that throughout my career
career, I have had trouble with that,that sentence,
that slogan as well,which is why I talk about in the book.
(17:08):
It was much easier for me at the beginningwhen there's
no pressure, and the team wasn'tvery good to trust the process.
Well, we're going to turn this around,
and so we're going to
we're going to engage ourself into itand go for it as, as the years go by
and we're trying to stay on top,trust in the process becomes sometimes
a little more challenging and difficult,and it's a reminder that it must be done.
(17:29):
There's no shortcut.
And so one of the exampleI give all the time is,
and this is where all of us mencome to have sometimes an issue
with trusting the processis that we want results. Now.
We want to see the change now.
And as society evolves
and electronics evolvesand we get so much faster in everything.
(17:49):
So now having to waitfor one of the things seems excruciating.
And so in a trustingthe process is having the ability
to forego the now for something
later is going to be better best.
So it's forgoingthe good to get the great.
And that requires a whole lot of, self.
(18:11):
You know, you have to, to, to be able to,to self-contained yourself.
You have to be able to say, yes, we could.
I think a business example,
I think a lot of people go for the smallfish or the small kill,
the small amount of money or the moneynow, as opposed to say, let's
we might not make as much money now,but the goal is going to be here.
To stay aligned withthat is very difficult.
So in coaching, in basketball,
(18:33):
I made some very difficult decisionsalong the way to sit out my starters,
because I wanted to teach a culture
and by sitting out the starter,I understood that we might lose the game,
but we might gain a culturethat's going to help us win a championship
in 4 or 5 years.
And that's exactly what happened.
And so but losingthose games are super difficult.
(18:55):
And sometimes, thankfully,I made the hard decision.
And we still while the game,which was amazing.
And then you go home,you feel really happy.
But the ability to discern this
and to say, I'm going to hold on right nowbecause I really want what's great.
I just want what's good, acceptable.
That is what trusting the process means.
I love that, I really do.
(19:17):
You you talked
we talked a little bit about your circles,
and I probably should have saidthis earlier.
We talked about organizational skillsand individual development
and leader attributes.
And, you know,everybody has a list of leader attributes,
leadershipskills, behaviors, competencies.
We use all sorts of words for this.
There's all sorts of lists.
We can Google itand find all sorts of stuff.
(19:38):
What I'd like you to share is what's
one of the leader attributesthat you've studied, that you've noticed
that you think isperhaps a underappreciated?
I think we can all make a long list,but like, what's one that you think
people don't think enough about,pay enough attention to?
(19:58):
What would that be for you?
So as a question,I had a meeting yesterday with my mentor,
and we were discussing somethingthat he shared with me, so I'll share it.
And that is my the one that I know
is of utmost importanceand definitely overlooked everybody.
Any session, I'll tell you somehow,you know, as you grow along the years
and you get olderand you get really good at your job,
(20:20):
you haven't lost the abilityof being adaptable
or the intentionto want to continue to learn.
And it is something that I think he said,he doesn't know this and most people
and I was a little surprised.
I just said, well, you know,everybody goes to continue to learn it.
And no, people leave that I think behind.
As they grow older,they get set in their ways.
(20:42):
And for me, the, the quest for learningis, is one of the leaders
at two of the address in the bookthat we found is super important.
And all these very successfulleaders and coaches and individual.
So that is somethingthat I never wanted to lose.
And so to go out thereand to be able to say, okay, like,
you know, I'm going to continueto learn and expand myself.
(21:04):
And I think it becomes difficult sometimes
because maybe our strengths or weaknessesare what they are,
and we can only maybe improveso much in certain areas.
And but we still say, okay, I'mgoing to continue to learn.
And that's just that'sjust about our weaknesses.
But in general,opening ourself up to new concept,
new idea, something that maybe we findchallenging in life in general.
(21:25):
I don't know how I feel about thisto learn about that.
That is a really, really important,
factor of what makes good leaders.
I want to
I want to ask you about a couple of thingsyou talk about in the book that,
I think people will find really useful.
And the first oneis, is something that you have,
(21:46):
and that's a council of advisors.
And I'm going to spell council differentthan you do. But,
I'm going to have it with a Cinstead of an S.
But, but the point here is
and I should have said process earlierinstead of process.
Sorry about that.
But you talk abouthaving a council of advisors.
You talk about you mentioned a mentor.
You talk about mentors in the book.
(22:07):
Yeah. This is slightly different.
And I think this is something
that a lot of leaders in organizations,wherever they are, wherever you are,
you know,you're you're a frontline leader.
You're a leader of leaders.
You don't have to be a CEO for this ideato to to bear fruit for you.
What do you mean, Chantal?
By the idea of a council of advisors.
So, the eve of winning our,
(22:30):
first nationalchampionship, we're sitting in a room,
and I've got my regularassistant coaches with me
which have been along, all of themunbelievable people.
And I also had, my mentor,I had somebody that helped us
with stats,somebody to help me with the offense.
And those were gentlementhat, you know, I just,
receive advice every weekthroughout the season that maybe
(22:52):
my coaches didn't really know about,but I had invited them to be part of it.
So as we have, this roundtable,I invite them to sit at the table.
And here I am with about,you know, 9 or 10 different individuals.
And my mentor is just watching from afar.
And for me, I'm listening to everybody'sfeedback, my assistant coaches,
(23:13):
but also this one, a gentleman that knowsnothing about sport is not an athlete,
never coach, but looks throughdata and stats analytics.
I listen to this one to themand it helped me figure out
an offense better and and you know,
and I'm making decisions in my headbased on the feedback.
And when I leave the room.
(23:34):
First I could tell that some assistantcoaches were a little uneasy
because this is just a smaller groupof us.
And also, I had brought more for the tableand and that was easy for them.
But for me, that was very importantbecause I always say,
you know,there is no room, there is no ego.
We need to be able to make
the best decisionfor the best of the team,
the best of the program,the best at the organization.
(23:56):
And I'm the person in chargeand the directly responsible individual
to make that decision.
So I need that feedback.
And my mentor,we were walking back to the hotel.
He said, wow.
Boy, I don't know how you, you know,assistant coach feels about this.
And I said this, okay.
Like, you know, it'swe as a group need to win.
And he says, I really seeing somebodysitting with so many people and
and you handled it very welland he was very complimentary about this.
(24:19):
But that's where the council of advisorscome from.
It's having, more than just, the groupthat you felt comfortable with.
It's having other people that might givesomething completely different,
a different viewpointthat then we must consider
if we're to make sure that we left leave.
No, you know, rocks
unturned, so to speak,before headed into some big decisions.
(24:42):
I love
that I think all of us can think abouthaving that group of people
and you being consciousabout choosing them and
and what, what role they bring toand what perspective that they bring.
What what I heard you saying,and of course, I read in the book as well,
is that
each of those people brought
a different perspective and perhaps helped
(25:03):
you see something that you might not haveotherwise have seen.
You tell a story, in the book
that you can tellas much of the back story as you want,
but I but I think the, the idea of doingit is incredibly useful.
And it's the story.
The story is about putting our burdensat the foot of the hill.
(25:26):
So talk to us about
what you were trying to accomplish
and how it helped your teamto do what you did.
Yeah, we had lost the game to qualifyfor the second national championship.
And, we were only very fortunate that yearthat there was a behind tournament.
We could go to another tournamentto try to win the tournament,
to go back to National, which was a formatthat wasn't used before.
(25:49):
So, and I feel that, you know, asa potentially repeating national champion,
there was a lot of, stress on the playersand a lot of me, too.
I mean, we've never we had never repeatedand we want to do it two years in a row.
And basically what I did with themis I brought them at the foot of a hill,
by, in Windsor, and I had them
carry,some weights, in their, in their arms and,
(26:13):
you know, we talked about,
how we felt about,you know, having just lost the game.
And, Kevin,
if you remember in the book, we lost thatwe were ranked number one in the country
and we lost that game for 49 points
by 49 points, which is like unheard of.
And it was unheard of in my career.
And I thought,oh my goodness, and we were slaughtered.
(26:33):
It was ironic to we play that same teamin that play in tournaments.
So that team had,
wanted to host it because it never thoughtthey were going to beat us.
So they wanted to get the back doorand they sent us into the back door.
Anyway, we had three days to refocus.
And, it wasn't that much strategy.
There was maybe a small adjustmenton our ability to attack with contact.
(26:57):
But apart from that,it was all in our head.
It was our inner emotion.
And I had to then defy that.
And so I brought the bottle to heel.
And so now herethey are, back with a weight.
And I tell them to startgoing up the hill.
And one player looks at medefiantly and says, how many time, coach?
And I said, 49, you know, really changedthe the points and that sounds crazy.
And I wanted to make sure everybody knowsthat we didn't do it.
(27:20):
We didn't,
you know, my point was just to asI started to do it,
I wanted to feel the gutsand the chest start to go.
And I said, stop.And I said, let's drop your weights.
I ask you to
go up the hill, but I never ask youto carry those weights with you.
So why are you carrying those in? It's alland then really knowing.
And it was this, this imageto just like release your burden.
If you want to achieve a goaland you want to climb, you want to peak,
(27:43):
you got to releaseall the burdens that come with this.
You get to release the ideathat there's so much pressure.
It's just never going to get therein this easy way.
We just went up this small hill one time,and there was a lot of freedom
and liberation,and a lot of pressure went off
and we went back and won the gameand end up winning the National.
We never lost again. That you're notwilling to second national championship.
(28:06):
I justlove I just love that the imagery of it.
But I appreciate you sharing the storybecause I think that often times
our sort of backto where we started, you as a leader
aren't probably coaching a sports teamunless it's your kid's little league team.
Right.
And yet we can all we can all recognize
(28:27):
the situation, Chantelle,that you just shared in terms of our teams
feeling stress and pressureand why do we need to carry that?
And how can we as leadershelp people let that go enough
to help them move forward?
I really love that.Thank you for sharing that.
I've got a couple of more thingsI want to ask before we finish, Chantelle,
but is there anything that you hopedI would ask
(28:51):
or thought I might ask that I didn't?
You did.
You did a really good job.Really good overview of the book.
You mentioned at the beginning
I had the opportunity coach, men'sprofessional basketball team and
and maybe one of the anecdote of this partis that in the book as well.
So there's a whole kind of sequence
about how we transform the programin five year with a women.
(29:11):
But my challenge for me, when I was hiredto, to be the GM and
the head coach of a men's team,which I didn't know
the product better than the market,I didn't know the players.
It was very challenging for me.
But should I then reapply the theory?
No, no, that was more experience inapplying it into a shorter period of time.
And so why it took me, you know, six yearsto change a women's basketball program
(29:32):
from, from zero to first, from a franchisethat did not exist entering a league,
could I, in the first year
replicate something so much faster?
And we had six months toto sign the players, do the draft.
You know, building a team, hire the staff,even help with preparing the uniforms.
(29:53):
You know,like what the uniforms look like.
And in six month, we did that and we wentand we brought the league
to the the team to the league finaland our first show, the franchise.
And so to me was, I became more skilled
in termsof knowing how to transform organization.
And that's really nice.
I think, caveat at the endand we call this the overtime in the book,
(30:13):
showing that in a completely differentmarket with a completely different,
product, I was, you know,this still worked and transferable
and can be used in another way.
So, you have made your profession
something that you grew up loving todo, playing and now coaching the game.
But I'm curious, outside of basketball,what do you do for fun?
(30:36):
I love to read and I continue to read,and I read all the time.
And, in order to to even give an exampleof how I like to be challenged,
I picked up a book that I had heard aboutthat I knew was going to challenge me
in a different way and in terms of,mental and scientific and all that stuff.
So I picked up, Breaking the Habit
(30:57):
of Being Yourself by Doctor Joel Dispenza.
And, that is, I'm still reading this book.
It is really challengingin all kinds of beautiful ways.
And, taking a, a scientific approachon the changes
that our thoughts can have on our feelingsand the result the feelings
(31:20):
have on our, balance and within our bodyand within the environment around us.
So, you know, just a reallyI mean, for somebody who has a master's
degree in psychologyand that also in my undergrad
did some physics, you know,that the science approach is really good
and I think really helpful,to even continue to better me as a leader.
So that is what I'm currently doing,and I, I highly recommend it.
(31:43):
But it is challenging readbecause it's going to challenge our,
our thoughts, you know, and,and but what a better place to be
than the one where you miss thatto have our suffering challenged.
I love that, andI don't think that Chantelle can hear me.
So we will end this differentlythan we normally do.
Let me tell you, everybody will putall of the links to get to Chantal's book,
(32:04):
which is titledDare to Win the Blueprint for Building
and Leading High Performanceand Championship Teams.
We'll put the link to thatin the show notes,
as well as a link to the bookthat she was just talking about.
And, we'll also give you a linkto her social media.
So if you want to connect with her,you can do exactly that.
So I'm going to close by asking youall the question
(32:27):
that I ask you every single week,which is this.
Now what what are you going to do now
as a resultof what you've just heard and learned?
Because hearing it is one thing, applyingit is something very different.
So it's my hope that you will thinkabout what you took
from this conversation,whether you're a sports fan or not.
(32:50):
Thank you so much,Kevin, for really having me on the show.
It's always,
such a pleasure to discuss with somebodythat is as knowledgeable as you.
On leadership.
And that has also takenthe time to read the book.
I really appreciate that.
And, wish everybody this and all the best.
All right.
So all the best,from both of us to all of you.
(33:11):
It has been a pleasure to have you.
If you enjoyed this episode,
make sure you subscribewherever you're watched or listened
so you don't miss any future episodes,including next week when we'll be back
with another episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast.
Thanks, everybody.
Coachingand team development seem to exist
in at least two realms, in sportsand in business.
Are they connected?
And what can one learn from oneto apply to the other?
Our guest today has Bridge that Gapand has tremendous insights for us all.
Welcome to another episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast,
(00:30):
where we are helping leadersgrow personally and professionally
to lead more effectively,to make a bigger difference
for their teams, organizationsand the world.
If you are listening to this podcastin the future,
you could be with us, liveon your favorite social media channel.
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(00:54):
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And so you can join our Facebook
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Just go to remarkable podcast.com/facebook
(01:14):
or remarkable 5.com/linkedinto get all of that.
Today's episode is brought to youby my latest book.
Flexible leadership navigate uncertaintyand lead with confidence.
It's time to realize that stylescan get in our way, and that following
our strengthsmight not always be the best approach.
In a worldmore complex and uncertain than ever.
(01:34):
Leaders need a new perspectiveand a new set of tools to get
the great results their organizationsand team members want and need.
That's where flexible leadership comes in.
Hope that you will learn more and orderyour copy now
by going to remarkablepodcast.com/flexible.
And with that let me bring in my guest.
(01:56):
And her name is Sean Tao.
By which I know I can't possiblysay it as well as she does.
She's originally from Quebec, Canada.
She is the leader Lancerswomen's basketball coach,
and she transformed the last place teaminto a five time national champion.
(02:17):
She was also the first woman womanworldwide to coach
and managea men's professional team at Hamilton.
You can see a jersey overher head if you're watching.
Guidingthem to the finals in their first season.
She is the coauthor of the book To Win
the Blueprint Blueprint for BuildingWomen's and Championship Teams.
(02:40):
She lives in Windsor, Ontario now,and she's our guest today.
Chantelle,we have a little bit of feedback,
but I'm so glad that you're here.
Well, that's.
And I'm Kevin,it's a pleasure for me to be here.
So I'll try to not talk too much sowe won't have too much of that feedback.
Let's just start here.
Your story is interesting, right?
And I hinted at ita little bit in the short bio, but, like,
(03:04):
how do you end up doing what you do?
Like, tell us a little bitmore about the path to being a,
women's basketball player.
Well, like many, young boys and girls,I play a lot of sports.
I enjoy playing sports and I came froma very rural small town close to Montreal.
(03:26):
But as I grew older, there was nonot enough
a girls that wanted to be in sportand play basketball.
And, I was very disappointed about this.
I wanted to continue.
And so what happened is that,the city offered me to start some mini
basketball teams and camps,which I said, okay, well,
I guess if I can't play, I'mgoing to start coaching.
(03:47):
And slowly this is how I started toto coach until this became a profession.
And I've been a professional coachnow for almost 20 seasons, 20 years.
There you go.
That's a that's athat's a great story in itself.
And some of you who are listeningor watching know
that I happen to be a basketballfan has come up on occasion.
So I'm especially excited to have you hereand for us to chat.
(04:10):
What led though to a book?
So like I hinted at this in the open.
So let me just saya little bit about this.
Like, so you're doing coachingand then you go to McGill
and studyleadership at the master's level.
So I'm surethat has something to do with the book.
So, like, tell us a little bit about
how you end up coming toto writing the book.
(04:32):
Yeah.
So, I was a graduate studentat McGill University in Montreal, and,
and I was, wanting to researchwhat makes coaching successful for me.
I wanted to find the key.
I wanted to get into coaching,and I didn't want to be mediocre.
I didn't want to be bottom of the packor middle of the pack.
I want to win championships.
So I'm thinking I've got,you know, 2 to 3 years in grad school
(04:54):
to really try to figure outwhat makes the best leader successful.
And we really focus with my, supervisor,who's now the coauthor of this book.
We really focus on leadership at large.
And we we looked at business and military,healthcare, education
and all the leaders and how they are ableto transform companies or organizations.
And then for the research part of it,we really went specifically
(05:16):
into coaches of team sports,and we look into the coaches
and how to transformany team into a champion.
And we really studied and research themthrough a research project.
We're finding, for higher order categoriesof what those successful coaches do,
which are also applicable, like youmentioned, given straight into business.
(05:37):
And, we were able to prove this publishin terms of a peer review article.
We actually wrote two.
And then I wentand I became the basketball coach
at the University of Windsor, a teamthat was last for several seasons.
And, they had only hadfour winning seasons in about 50 years.
And I applied the research that I learned.
(05:59):
So I literally just applied itover a period of ten years.
I recontact that my master's supervisorand I said, Doctor Bloom,
I think we should write a a book.
And he was just thinking the same thing.
So what we did in the bookis, is explain the theory
so that everybody can pick it upand replicate, replicate it.
But also it's filled
with motivational storiesthroughout that make the book
(06:21):
interesting, and motivationalinspiring at the same time.
So that's how we came about to,write the book.
So everybodyChantelle is not going to say this,
but she's not only the coauthorof the book, she's the star of the book
because a lot of the book is writtenfrom the perspective of the stories,
from all of the, the, the basketball stuffbuilding the teams and the challenges
(06:43):
and all those sorts of thingsalong the way.
So we'll talk aboutsome of those as we go.
But I really want to get into some of what
you learned and then applybecause I do think, you know, so often,
as leaders inbusinesses who happen to be sports fans,
we like look at sports teams,a lot of sports coaches,
and we we tell stories about that,but we don't really think about
(07:05):
how we can cross apply the lessons.
And and you've lived that.
So I want us to talk aboutsome of those things.
You talk very early in the book about,three circles
hooked together, that lead to talkabout these three things.
We'll put them on the screen.
Individual growth, organizational skillsand leaders attributes.
(07:26):
And so I'd like you to talk a little.
All of us know those words.
But tell us about what you mean.
And each of those subsets of your research
individual growth, organizational skillsleaders attributes.
Talk about those just a little bit.
Yeah.
So Kevin, at the end of it,when we had research, all the top coaches
and what they had doneto transform their organization,
(07:48):
we had about,you know, 2000 pages of notes
and research journals and datathat we had to go in there and analyze.
And what we didis just kind of take the main,
every single
little topic that was addressed.
We put label into these topics,
and then we say if we could groupsome topics and some labels together.
(08:09):
And at the end we found, you know,higher order categories, which those three
are part of, of it to say, you know,these are kind of the
three main areas of,
the summarizes what coaches are
successful coaches,how they are better in others and doing
and in the middle of these three areasis the vision.
(08:31):
So there was kind of thesefour higher order categories,
if you wish, that were up there.
And so for the, the, the, the, the vision,since you have it
now on the screen for a quick seconddivision became kind of the central piece
of what makes every leader successful.
So without a vision, there was just work,but not in achievement
(08:54):
of any kind of significant goalfor the organization.
With a vision that said, for example,we want it.
So when I took Windsor,
I just took my research and says, well,I know we're lost in the country, but
I want to transform this program and proveto be national champion in five years.
That was a clear vision, and the visionshave to be always on the verge
of a little bit, seemingly not sureif it's going to be possible.
(09:18):
And from there you then divide itinto subcategories, where you put
achievable goals and where you can putyour KPIs and get to to target those.
But the vision has to be substantiallykind of like grandiose in a way
where the coaches didit all, did that, somebody that
had never won anything would, would say,we want to win a gold medal.
(09:38):
We want to get to this level.
And then on the right side of the circle,then taking this organizational skills
and that that in itselfis all the planning,
the management and administrationpart of the job of any leader.
Leader isn't good at that.
It's not going to be as successfulinto implementing the vision.
So it's really about learning to developthat side of of of leaders as well.
(10:02):
On the left side of the model,
there's the individual growth, which,the research showed that leaders
that really invest in their subordinatesor coaches invest in the players
for the sake of their individual growthand not for the sake of winning,
find that there are more successfuland winning becomes a byproduct of this.
(10:24):
And so there's athere's a transformational process in the,
the player or the subordinatethat happens in that relationship
and that, thatthat's search for help, individual growth
that is very beneficialto the overall vision.
And the last pieceis the leaders attribute,
which is that coachestend to think or leaders tend
to think that to be goodat something you have a skill
(10:47):
needs to be somewhat balanced,somewhat in the middle.
So if you can be tough or caring,you're going to be a little bit
a little bit of both in the middle.
But the research showsthat you have to be all of these.
So not just balance,
but you need to be able to go absolutelyon the left side of the spectrum,
absolute the right side of the spectrumand choose the right moment to,
really, embody that leadership trait
(11:09):
when it's needed at the right time,which is very difficult to do.
Everybody is talking about the core ideain my new book,
Flexible Leadership right there.
It's not about it's not about either or.
It's about both.
And, 100%, I agree with that.
I want to go backto the organizational skills
circle or chunk of the model.
(11:29):
Would it be safe to say.
And I'm gonna try and I'm not tryingto change your words, but to clarify,
would it be safe to say thatmost of what we think of as management
skills fits into that one of the circles?
Is that a fair thing to say?
Yeah.
So the management skill is, is interestingbecause I think there's been a long,
(11:50):
confusion with leadershipwhere people, confuse
being a leader and being a managerand a two completely different things.
And so you can have really good leadersthat can inspire and say,
we're going to do this,
but a terrible manager of people,the terrible managers at the time.
So, so there's some, some,some different there to make.
(12:11):
So in that particular circle,which is organizational
skills, wewhat we did at the time is really put in,
thingsthat were more of organizational nature.
We didn't really portraythis as being managing people per se.
So we talk about planning administrativetasks, preparing a season
in terms of coaching,maybe the prioritization part of
(12:31):
of of an athlete for peakingand things like that. So,
you know, achieving targets.
This was that categoryin terms of managing people.
It would reflect and reflecta little bit more, in the category
of the individual growthand the leaders attribute where now
the soft skill of a personis clearly demonstrated
(12:52):
through these two categories of that,that research.
One of the things that,I really liked about the book is
and it's early in the book, in the sectionthat where you're talking about vision,
is your five year plan,
that you laid out for the Lancerswhen you joined them as a coach
with a long history,as you just said, of not being very good.
(13:13):
And and and a five year goalof being national champions.
And so you,
it's like a one pager, at least it appearsto be from looking at in the book.
And one of the things thatyou said was, as you were,
even as you were recruiting players,
you were using that one pager,if you will, that plan, that long
term, five year plan,as a part of your recruitment or,
(13:38):
you know, yeah, your recruitment strategyto select the people
that you wanted to have, joinyour team, talk a little bit more about
the idea of that five year plan
and then how you did,in fact use it, with your teams.
Yeah.
So when I envision winning a championship,
(13:58):
I realized I didn't have at the moment,the team capable of doing that.
So we needed to go and recruit.
Players were also graduating.
So there was athere was going to be a change over in the
the players that we had.
And so when, when you shopso how we recruit is that, you know,
we identify the playersand we do home visits.
So when I showed up to the home visit,
(14:20):
I would bring a binderand I would explain, my vision.
So, I know we're not really good rightnow, but, you know, if you stick with us,
if you decideyou can play here in five years,
here's where we're going to beand here's going to be your experience.
So I was using this as a,
an inspirational tool,but also a show of there is a vision here.
(14:40):
We're not just coming to
try to be the best and,do you know, go by the seat of our pants.
We're we're intentional.We have an intention.
We have a desire.
We have, emotions geared toward this.
And when an application as welltowards really transforming this program.
So that was very usefulbecause some recruits
and some parents would say,now this is never going to happen.
And others were really intrigued.
(15:02):
And slowly,they would resonate with this vision.
And now we knew we had a match,to come to come play for us.
And so when we actually, establishes two
and you mentioned given it's importantthat it's not just we're going to be here
in five years, but how are we going to be
where are we going to be near four in yearthree in year two, and in year one.
(15:22):
So for the player and the team,it'd be like, this is where we are.
So this year we only want to get so far.
And that is a big stepcompared to where we were last year.
So this yearwe want to have a winning season.
That is the first thing we want to do.
We're not talking about winningchampionship.
We're talking about establishinggreat habit
to help us to build this foundationso we can have a winning season.
(15:43):
And then we get moving up like thisevery year.
And this waythe whole vision seems slowly, realistic.
Whereas the overall part ofit may seem unrealistic.
Yeah, that's one of the thingsthat struck me about it is that, yeah.
I mean, yeah, you'd love to wina championship in three years.
But really, you say this, this is thisis our process to get there in five years.
(16:06):
And even though it's a very greatyear, were grandiose goal from the start,
one that many
people didn't really believe or buy intowhen they started to see
the stair steps along that way,I think it made a big difference.
I think that,
for anyone who were to read this book,if that if all you got was that,
(16:27):
that would be of great value,I would say, I want to.
You've hinted at it,and I just hinted at it to
one of the things that you wrote, and I
agree with wholeheartedly,and I'd like you to talk
a little bit more about,is this phrase trust the process? Yes.
I think that's so often.
(16:47):
Leaders have trouble with this.
And they have trouble
helping other folks see this.
So what does it meanto you to say trust the process?
And Iwant to say that throughout my career
career, I have had trouble with that,that sentence,
that slogan as well,which is why I talk about in the book.
(17:08):
It was much easier for me at the beginningwhen there's
no pressure, and the team wasn'tvery good to trust the process.
Well, we're going to turn this around,
and so we're going to
we're going to engage ourself into itand go for it as, as the years go by
and we're trying to stay on top,trust in the process becomes sometimes
a little more challenging and difficult,and it's a reminder that it must be done.
(17:29):
There's no shortcut.
And so one of the exampleI give all the time is,
and this is where all of us mencome to have sometimes an issue
with trusting the processis that we want results. Now.
We want to see the change now.
And as society evolves
and electronics evolvesand we get so much faster in everything.
(17:49):
So now having to waitfor one of the things seems excruciating.
And so in a trustingthe process is having the ability
to forego the now for something
later is going to be better best.
So it's forgoingthe good to get the great.
And that requires a whole lot of, self.
(18:11):
You know, you have to, to, to be able to,to self-contained yourself.
You have to be able to say, yes, we could.
I think a business example,
I think a lot of people go for the smallfish or the small kill,
the small amount of money or the moneynow, as opposed to say, let's
we might not make as much money now,but the goal is going to be here.
To stay aligned withthat is very difficult.
So in coaching, in basketball,
(18:33):
I made some very difficult decisionsalong the way to sit out my starters,
because I wanted to teach a culture
and by sitting out the starter,I understood that we might lose the game,
but we might gain a culturethat's going to help us win a championship
in 4 or 5 years.
And that's exactly what happened.
And so but losingthose games are super difficult.
(18:55):
And sometimes, thankfully,I made the hard decision.
And we still while the game,which was amazing.
And then you go home,you feel really happy.
But the ability to discern this
and to say, I'm going to hold on right nowbecause I really want what's great.
I just want what's good, acceptable.
That is what trusting the process means.
I love that, I really do.
(19:17):
You you talked
we talked a little bit about your circles,
and I probably should have saidthis earlier.
We talked about organizational skillsand individual development
and leader attributes.
And, you know,everybody has a list of leader attributes,
leadershipskills, behaviors, competencies.
We use all sorts of words for this.
There's all sorts of lists.
We can Google itand find all sorts of stuff.
(19:38):
What I'd like you to share is what's
one of the leader attributesthat you've studied, that you've noticed
that you think isperhaps a underappreciated?
I think we can all make a long list,but like, what's one that you think
people don't think enough about,pay enough attention to?
(19:58):
What would that be for you?
So as a question,I had a meeting yesterday with my mentor,
and we were discussing somethingthat he shared with me, so I'll share it.
And that is my the one that I know
is of utmost importanceand definitely overlooked everybody.
Any session, I'll tell you somehow,you know, as you grow along the years
and you get olderand you get really good at your job,
(20:20):
you haven't lost the abilityof being adaptable
or the intentionto want to continue to learn.
And it is something that I think he said,he doesn't know this and most people
and I was a little surprised.
I just said, well, you know,everybody goes to continue to learn it.
And no, people leave that I think behind.
As they grow older,they get set in their ways.
(20:42):
And for me, the, the quest for learningis, is one of the leaders
at two of the address in the bookthat we found is super important.
And all these very successfulleaders and coaches and individual.
So that is somethingthat I never wanted to lose.
And so to go out thereand to be able to say, okay, like,
you know, I'm going to continueto learn and expand myself.
(21:04):
And I think it becomes difficult sometimes
because maybe our strengths or weaknessesare what they are,
and we can only maybe improveso much in certain areas.
And but we still say, okay, I'mgoing to continue to learn.
And that's just that'sjust about our weaknesses.
But in general,opening ourself up to new concept,
new idea, something that maybe we findchallenging in life in general.
(21:25):
I don't know how I feel about thisto learn about that.
That is a really, really important,
factor of what makes good leaders.
I want to
I want to ask you about a couple of thingsyou talk about in the book that,
I think people will find really useful.
And the first oneis, is something that you have,
(21:46):
and that's a council of advisors.
And I'm going to spell council differentthan you do. But,
I'm going to have it with a Cinstead of an S.
But, but the point here is
and I should have said process earlierinstead of process.
Sorry about that.
But you talk abouthaving a council of advisors.
You talk about you mentioned a mentor.
You talk about mentors in the book.
(22:07):
Yeah. This is slightly different.
And I think this is something
that a lot of leaders in organizations,wherever they are, wherever you are,
you know,you're you're a frontline leader.
You're a leader of leaders.
You don't have to be a CEO for this ideato to to bear fruit for you.
What do you mean, Chantal?
By the idea of a council of advisors.
So, the eve of winning our,
(22:30):
first nationalchampionship, we're sitting in a room,
and I've got my regularassistant coaches with me
which have been along, all of themunbelievable people.
And I also had, my mentor,I had somebody that helped us
with stats,somebody to help me with the offense.
And those were gentlementhat, you know, I just,
receive advice every weekthroughout the season that maybe
(22:52):
my coaches didn't really know about,but I had invited them to be part of it.
So as we have, this roundtable,I invite them to sit at the table.
And here I am with about,you know, 9 or 10 different individuals.
And my mentor is just watching from afar.
And for me, I'm listening to everybody'sfeedback, my assistant coaches,
(23:13):
but also this one, a gentleman that knowsnothing about sport is not an athlete,
never coach, but looks throughdata and stats analytics.
I listen to this one to themand it helped me figure out
an offense better and and you know,
and I'm making decisions in my headbased on the feedback.
And when I leave the room.
(23:34):
First I could tell that some assistantcoaches were a little uneasy
because this is just a smaller groupof us.
And also, I had brought more for the tableand and that was easy for them.
But for me, that was very importantbecause I always say,
you know,there is no room, there is no ego.
We need to be able to make
the best decisionfor the best of the team,
the best of the program,the best at the organization.
(23:56):
And I'm the person in chargeand the directly responsible individual
to make that decision.
So I need that feedback.
And my mentor,we were walking back to the hotel.
He said, wow.
Boy, I don't know how you, you know,assistant coach feels about this.
And I said this, okay.
Like, you know, it'swe as a group need to win.
And he says, I really seeing somebodysitting with so many people and
and you handled it very welland he was very complimentary about this.
(24:19):
But that's where the council of advisorscome from.
It's having, more than just, the groupthat you felt comfortable with.
It's having other people that might givesomething completely different,
a different viewpointthat then we must consider
if we're to make sure that we left leave.
No, you know, rocks
unturned, so to speak,before headed into some big decisions.
(24:42):
I love
that I think all of us can think abouthaving that group of people
and you being consciousabout choosing them and
and what, what role they bring toand what perspective that they bring.
What what I heard you saying,and of course, I read in the book as well,
is that
each of those people brought
a different perspective and perhaps helped
(25:03):
you see something that you might not haveotherwise have seen.
You tell a story, in the book
that you can tellas much of the back story as you want,
but I but I think the, the idea of doingit is incredibly useful.
And it's the story.
The story is about putting our burdensat the foot of the hill.
(25:26):
So talk to us about
what you were trying to accomplish
and how it helped your teamto do what you did.
Yeah, we had lost the game to qualifyfor the second national championship.
And, we were only very fortunate that yearthat there was a behind tournament.
We could go to another tournamentto try to win the tournament,
to go back to National, which was a formatthat wasn't used before.
(25:49):
So, and I feel that, you know, asa potentially repeating national champion,
there was a lot of, stress on the playersand a lot of me, too.
I mean, we've never we had never repeatedand we want to do it two years in a row.
And basically what I did with themis I brought them at the foot of a hill,
by, in Windsor, and I had them
carry,some weights, in their, in their arms and,
(26:13):
you know, we talked about,
how we felt about,you know, having just lost the game.
And, Kevin,
if you remember in the book, we lost thatwe were ranked number one in the country
and we lost that game for 49 points
by 49 points, which is like unheard of.
And it was unheard of in my career.
And I thought,oh my goodness, and we were slaughtered.
(26:33):
It was ironic to we play that same teamin that play in tournaments.
So that team had,
wanted to host it because it never thoughtthey were going to beat us.
So they wanted to get the back doorand they sent us into the back door.
Anyway, we had three days to refocus.
And, it wasn't that much strategy.
There was maybe a small adjustmenton our ability to attack with contact.
(26:57):
But apart from that,it was all in our head.
It was our inner emotion.
And I had to then defy that.
And so I brought the bottle to heel.
And so now herethey are, back with a weight.
And I tell them to startgoing up the hill.
And one player looks at medefiantly and says, how many time, coach?
And I said, 49, you know, really changedthe the points and that sounds crazy.
And I wanted to make sure everybody knowsthat we didn't do it.
(27:20):
We didn't,
you know, my point was just to asI started to do it,
I wanted to feel the gutsand the chest start to go.
And I said, stop.And I said, let's drop your weights.
I ask you to
go up the hill, but I never ask youto carry those weights with you.
So why are you carrying those in? It's alland then really knowing.
And it was this, this imageto just like release your burden.
If you want to achieve a goaland you want to climb, you want to peak,
(27:43):
you got to releaseall the burdens that come with this.
You get to release the ideathat there's so much pressure.
It's just never going to get therein this easy way.
We just went up this small hill one time,and there was a lot of freedom
and liberation,and a lot of pressure went off
and we went back and won the gameand end up winning the National.
We never lost again. That you're notwilling to second national championship.
(28:06):
I justlove I just love that the imagery of it.
But I appreciate you sharing the storybecause I think that often times
our sort of backto where we started, you as a leader
aren't probably coaching a sports teamunless it's your kid's little league team.
Right.
And yet we can all we can all recognize
(28:27):
the situation, Chantelle,that you just shared in terms of our teams
feeling stress and pressureand why do we need to carry that?
And how can we as leadershelp people let that go enough
to help them move forward?
I really love that.Thank you for sharing that.
I've got a couple of more thingsI want to ask before we finish, Chantelle,
but is there anything that you hopedI would ask
(28:51):
or thought I might ask that I didn't?
You did.
You did a really good job.Really good overview of the book.
You mentioned at the beginning
I had the opportunity coach, men'sprofessional basketball team and
and maybe one of the anecdote of this partis that in the book as well.
So there's a whole kind of sequence
about how we transform the programin five year with a women.
(29:11):
But my challenge for me, when I was hiredto, to be the GM and
the head coach of a men's team,which I didn't know
the product better than the market,I didn't know the players.
It was very challenging for me.
But should I then reapply the theory?
No, no, that was more experience inapplying it into a shorter period of time.
And so why it took me, you know, six yearsto change a women's basketball program
(29:32):
from, from zero to first, from a franchisethat did not exist entering a league,
could I, in the first year
replicate something so much faster?
And we had six months toto sign the players, do the draft.
You know, building a team, hire the staff,even help with preparing the uniforms.
(29:53):
You know,like what the uniforms look like.
And in six month, we did that and we wentand we brought the league
to the the team to the league finaland our first show, the franchise.
And so to me was, I became more skilled
in termsof knowing how to transform organization.
And that's really nice.
I think, caveat at the endand we call this the overtime in the book,
(30:13):
showing that in a completely differentmarket with a completely different,
product, I was, you know,this still worked and transferable
and can be used in another way.
So, you have made your profession
something that you grew up loving todo, playing and now coaching the game.
But I'm curious, outside of basketball,what do you do for fun?
(30:36):
I love to read and I continue to read,and I read all the time.
And, in order to to even give an exampleof how I like to be challenged,
I picked up a book that I had heard aboutthat I knew was going to challenge me
in a different way and in terms of,mental and scientific and all that stuff.
So I picked up, Breaking the Habit
(30:57):
of Being Yourself by Doctor Joel Dispenza.
And, that is, I'm still reading this book.
It is really challengingin all kinds of beautiful ways.
And, taking a, a scientific approachon the changes
that our thoughts can have on our feelingsand the result the feelings
(31:20):
have on our, balance and within our bodyand within the environment around us.
So, you know, just a reallyI mean, for somebody who has a master's
degree in psychologyand that also in my undergrad
did some physics, you know,that the science approach is really good
and I think really helpful,to even continue to better me as a leader.
So that is what I'm currently doing,and I, I highly recommend it.
(31:43):
But it is challenging readbecause it's going to challenge our,
our thoughts, you know, and,and but what a better place to be
than the one where you miss thatto have our suffering challenged.
I love that, andI don't think that Chantelle can hear me.
So we will end this differentlythan we normally do.
Let me tell you, everybody will putall of the links to get to Chantal's book,
(32:04):
which is titledDare to Win the Blueprint for Building
and Leading High Performanceand Championship Teams.
We'll put the link to thatin the show notes,
as well as a link to the bookthat she was just talking about.
And, we'll also give you a linkto her social media.
So if you want to connect with her,you can do exactly that.
So I'm going to close by asking youall the question
(32:27):
that I ask you every single week,which is this.
Now what what are you going to do now
as a resultof what you've just heard and learned?
Because hearing it is one thing, applyingit is something very different.
So it's my hope that you will thinkabout what you took
from this conversation,whether you're a sports fan or not.
(32:50):
Thank you so much,Kevin, for really having me on the show.
It's always,
such a pleasure to discuss with somebodythat is as knowledgeable as you.
On leadership.
And that has also takenthe time to read the book.
I really appreciate that.
And, wish everybody this and all the best.
All right.
So all the best,from both of us to all of you.
(33:11):
It has been a pleasure to have you.
If you enjoyed this episode,
make sure you subscribewherever you're watched or listened
so you don't miss any future episodes,including next week when we'll be back
with another episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast.
Thanks, everybody.
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