September 17, 2025 • 35 mins
What do you need to run your life successfully? In this episode, Kevin talks with Dr. Klaus Kleinfeld about how leaders can master both the “inner game” and the “outer game” of leadership. Klaus explains why sustainable success starts with managing your energy—physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually—and how purpose acts like a laser to focus that energy on what matters most. He also discusses how discipline alone isn't enough, why removing negative cues from your environment can help conserve energy, and how leaders can choose their emotional responses to prevent unnecessary energy drains.
Klaus' Story: Dr. Klaus Kleinfeld is the author of Leading to Thrive: Mastering Strategies for Sustainable Success in Business and Life. He is the only leader to have successfully served as CEO of two Fortune 500 giants on different continents: Alcoa in the US and Siemens in Germany. With a nearly forty-year career spanning multiple industries, from established businesses to tech startups, he has advised US presidents and global leaders across Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. As the founder of K2Elevation, he invests in North American and European tech and biotech firms. Actively engaged in private sector, public affairs, and cultural boards, Dr. Kleinfeld, a dual US and European citizen, enjoys work, life, and family near New York.
https://www.leading-to-thrive.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/klauskleinfeld/
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Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Being a leader at
any level is harder now than ever.
It is both complex and important work,
and you're listening to this podcastbecause you want to be a better leader.
That's wonderful.
My guests and I both believethat we can be successful as leaders
and more successful as human beings.
(00:30):
At the same time,this may be the most valuable conversation
you listen to this year because we'renot just talking about you as a leader,
but you as a person.
Welcome to another episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast,
where we are helping leadersgrow personally and professionally
to lead more effectivelyand make a bigger difference
for their teams, organizationsand the world.
(00:53):
If you are listening to this podcast,you could be with us in the future.
Live on your favoritesocial media channel.
You can learn about live future episodeswhen they're going to happen,
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quickly by joining our Facebookor LinkedIn groups.
Just go to remarkable podcast.com/facebook
(01:16):
or remarkable podcast.com/linkedinto get connected there.
We'd love to have you do that.
Today's episode is brought to youby my latest book, Flexible
Leadership Navigate Uncertaintyand Lead with Confidence.
It's time to realize that stylescan get in our way, and that following
our strengths might not always be the bestor the complete approach.
(01:37):
In a world more complex and uncertainthan ever.
Leaders need a new perspectiveand a set of tools to create
great results for their organizationsand teams.
That'swhat flexible leadership can do for you.
Learn more and orderyour copy now at remarkable
podcast.com/flexible.
Now with that I'm goingto bring in my guest and introduce him.
And we will dive in.
(01:58):
His name is Doctor Klaus Kleinfeld.
He is the only leader everybody to havesuccessfully served as CEO of two fortune
500 giants on different continents,
Alcoa in the US and Siemens in Germany.
With a nearly 40 yearcareer spanning multiple industries
from established business businessesto tech startups.
(02:21):
He has advised US presidentsand global leaders across Europe,
Asia and the middle East.
As a founder of K2 elevation,he invests in North
American and European techand biotech firms.
He is also the author of leading to ThriveMastering
Strategies for Sustainable Successin Business and Life.
(02:43):
He's actively engaged in private sectorpublic affairs and cultural boards.
He's a dual citizen of the USand a European citizen, and he works
enjoys his work
life and family near New York,where he's coming to us from today.
And he is our guest.
And, Klaus, I'm glad to have you.
Thanks for being here.
(03:03):
Well, pleasure.
Pleasure, Kevin.
So, before we get to the bookitself, in the book, you talk a little bit
about your journey, and, you know, there'sthere's the journey of business.
And I sort of outlined that in the,in the opening, but your but your whole
background, your journey that gets you tothis point starts earlier than that.
(03:26):
And I think telling us a little bit aboutthat will give us greater perspective
on you and quite honestly,
make us even more interestedin wanting to hear what you've got to say.
Can you share a little bit about that?
Sure, sure.
Born in Germany, raised by parentswho had fled from East Germany,
and started afresh,after the Second World War.
(03:47):
And, the momentas a woman, things got better.
Unfortunately,my my father died when I was ten,
so that threw me into an accelerated phaseof growing up and having to work.
I got my first paying job was 12 years,
and I thinksince then I've never stopped working.
And, and and to did a lot of things
(04:08):
in my life obviously over, over time
what also happened, which greatlyand that greatly influenced me.
The other thing that greatly influenced meis when, when my father died,
my motherdecided that during the vacation time,
if she went back to workand during vacation time,
she sent me back to visitmy relatives in East Germany.
So I spent a very fair bit of time,
(04:30):
in East Germany and, during my childhood.
And I grew up in a systemthat obviously was
very different to my West German system.
And, and, that formed a view
on, on a conceptthat unfortunately, people,
some concepts of life that you onlyrealize when they, when things are gone.
(04:51):
And freedom is one of those, you know,so freedom that led me to, very much
appreciate freedom and also realize,
in how many ways shapes or forms it comes.
And also that sometimeswhen you don't have it,
you can be very courageous to still,
(05:11):
push the envelope and, and,that form for me in getting to know people
who did that and seeing how they copewith their life in spite of,
not so nice
circumstances that they had to livewith also young people.
Right.
So that those two things formed me and,
you know, have led me to do things
(05:34):
that I did in my life, you know, so,
by the way, also coming over
from, from Germanyhere to the US and becoming a citizen,
and my whole family is very, very happyhere.
Well, we're glad to have you.
I'll just say that, you collectively,
you and I were talking before weI hit the Let's Go live button, and,
(05:55):
we were talking a little bit about thisbook and, you know,
you have a 40 yearcareer, history in business,
and now you've written this book,and you said,
something along the lines of, well,I didn't just want to add
another business.
So I'm curious,why did you choose to write for.
Well, what what happenedis, that I have seen and coached a lot of,
(06:21):
a lot of, CEOs and leaders, you know,
and now that I have a little bitmore time, I've accelerated that.
And and what I noticed is two things.
One is that too many,
don't have not done the jobin sorting out their own self
and therefore is holding them backto become very effective.
(06:43):
That's one thing I saw the other thingI saw is that a concept
that I unfortunately had thought was only
there, and people who are in businessfor a longer time also happens.
And the younger generation,that's burnout.
I saw burnout happening in some of the,
companies that I invested inand started startup companies already
kind ofnot not quite in the startup phase,
(07:03):
but in the in the, aroundthe phase, you know. So,
and, and
and when I saw this, I realizedit's all tied to one concept.
And the concept isthey did not have an understanding,
a framework of what is neededto run your life successfully.
And, that'swhy it starts with the inner game.
(07:24):
My book starts leading to story, startswith the inner game,
and then goes to the classic leadershipstuff, the outer game.
And frankly,the inner game is all about energy.
You know, how how do you get energy?
Do you have enough energy?
And if you don't have enough energy,then you can't bring it to anything.
Or so you the other way.
If you have plenty of it,you can bring it to business.
You can bring it to your life, you know,and you can,
(07:46):
lead a very, very fulfilled life.
So that's the core.
The inner game was the core motivationto sit down.
And the other thing is, I also thought,I can do this simply by teaching
one on one,you know, I also have to put it in some,
some version that people can pick up andread it or listen to it on an audiobook.
Which leads us to the book.
(08:07):
And you mentioned, the inner game versusthe outer game.
I put that in the lower third.
I put that back up in a second,because that's really where I want to
focus as, again,as I told you before we went live,
that to me is the partthat makes this book exceptional.
Is the stuff about inner game and you.
So let's say a little bit moreabout what you mean about the difference
(08:30):
between inner game and outer game.
Well, it's relatively simple.
The inner game is, basicallyhow you personally lead the day to day
life and your long termgoals, your purpose, you know, so
and then the outer game iswhatever this energy you bring it to.
(08:51):
And in my book, I cover the auto gamemainly on the business side.
But there's another aspect,you know, there's where the inner game is
equally important as you alsobring it to the other parts of life,
you know,whether it is in social engagements,
whether it's your family, whether it'sfriendships or God knows what you know.
So without sorting out the inner game,there is no successful,
(09:13):
sustainable outer game,no matter what you choose, you know?
And then finally,that's come to the inner game
so that we canprobably get our hands around it.
What is this?
And it's really about understanding thatthat it is about managing energy.
It starts with managing energy.
And, the oh, it's old wisdom.
I mean, it's body, mind and soul.
(09:33):
And I separate the mind into emotionsand mental, you know,
so and most people understandif you don't treat your body well,
you know, if you don't work out, if youif your diet is bad, you sleep, you know,
whatever you drink, hydration, you know,if that's bad, then you don't have energy.
You can't get anything done, you know.
So that's very well understoodby most people.
Oh, let me put itthis way as well. Understood.
(09:55):
And probably not enough practice,you know.
So yes, I was just going to saythere's a difference between knowledge and
action class.
So let's talk let's just talk about that
because, you know, everyone knows,like mom taught us, right?
Make sure you get good rest,eat a balanced meal, go exercise
all that stuff like everybody knows it,
(10:17):
especially for leaders
at all levels,not just at the in the C-suite.
But why is it that there's such a break
between we know it, but we don't do it.
It's just hard.
It's it's requires discipline.
And that's the other fascinating concept.
We're not talking about a concept that as,as, as somebody growing up in Germany,
(10:40):
you get you learn thatvery early discipline, you know,
and most people think,you know, it's all about discipline.
You just plow through.
But that's not the way it works, you know,because the moment you exert discipline
and you exert energy, so you burn out,you wake up and the more energy burns
through during the course of the day
you wake up in the morning,you should be relatively refreshed.
(11:00):
You know? And then you say,what do I apply to now?
Have a cup of coffee and get going. Boom.
You know, so but the moment you have toexert discipline, your energy burns out.
And I don't know whether you had this.
I had that bad habit,you know, that I was doing really well
during the whole course of the day,in spite of all the dramatic things
that happened every day.
You know, I come home, I have eating well,
(11:24):
I go to the fridge, I go to the freezer
and there it is,a pint of my favorite ice cream.
And I think just one little spoon.
And then like probably 15 minutes later,I look at an empty, complete package.
I said, who ate that?
Who ate that? You know.
And I you said, I have to
(11:44):
give up ice cream class, pleasetell me I don't have to give up ice cream.
Exactly.
So, so the concept of disciplineis also there.
There's a trick to this.
I mean, ideally you want to you don't wantto have to exhort to discipline.
So basicallyyou means you have to eliminate
from your environmentall those cues, you know.
So ideallyif I would have opened the freezer
(12:05):
and there was, would have only been thingsthat I don't fancy, then look,
I would have probably come back beenfrustrated for ten minutes, but then said,
okay, I'll bring some water, you know,and then I go to bed.
Two very good decisions,you know, that I would have taken in spite
of the very bad one,
which came from the great intentionthat I should have in my freeze
on my favorite ice cream.
(12:27):
You know, so that's one thing.
But I think on the physical side,my impression is, most people understand
it decently well, particularlywhen they are making it into leadership.
But the things that are really notwell understood, the ones that are dealing
with the kind of mental,emotional, mental and spiritual,
you know, so, so having a shallwe talk a little bit about that?
(12:48):
Yeah.
As I wanted to get to this,the sources of energy that's ready.
But before you do that,I wanted to say one of my,
one of my mentors, I'mthinking about this related.
You're asking me said, you know what?
I love donuts, but I don't eat donutsbecause I don't drive
by the donut shop like I if I have to gothree blocks out of the way,
because I know if I driveby the donut shop
just like,you know, if I open the freezer,
there's the ice cream, like it's again,we know this, but we don't do it.
(13:13):
And and, you know, there'sthis ripple effect when we're leaders.
And of course, as leader, it's not the icecream at the office necessarily.
But like if, if we're not actif we're not exerting the discipline
in the areas most important,
because our folks are watching.
Right.
We're modeling whether we like it, whetherwe like what they're seeing or not.
And so it's especially important,I think, for us in a leadership role.
(13:36):
But yeah, let's talk about the
the sources of energy because I think,yeah, this is a really important piece.
So we talked about physical alreadya little bit. Right.
So let's let's address the emotionalthe mental and the spiritual.
I mean let's start with the emotional
I think a lot ofI mean all of us have emotions.
And I believe we have situations,stressful situations
when we have negotiations.
And the other side is trying to poke usor says things that we don't like,
(13:59):
and we're getting angryand we're getting angry.
And the moment we're getting angry,something happens in us.
We lose energy.
You know, a lot of the energythat we have,
you know, gets burned off,you know, and and that's the issue.
Most people say,oh my God, I can't do anything with it.
But there's a very, very simple trick.
And the very simple trick isyou have to understand the energy
(14:23):
is what somebody else imposes on you.
But it's are it'scompletely inside of your own control.
You are the ones that allow the energyto happen inside of you.
So if you agree with me on that,you also can control it.
So you can basically say thatI'm listening
(14:43):
here goes into this side of the year,goes out of this side of the year.
I concentrate on my breathing.
You know, I look outside the window,you know, and I am not getting provoked
because I'm sayingwhat this person is talking about.
It's not relevant for me.
And you'repreparing your next argument, right?
So breathing is a very,very important part in this.
You know, just to concentrateon breathing.
(15:04):
The other side doesn't even notice that,you know, it's very good.
But the most important thing
is that the moment it comes,you filter out in your head that this is
somebody else's opinion has nothing to dowith whether it's my opinion or not.
I don't accept that,and I will not allow my emotions
to be wasted on this creepwho's sitting across from me, you know?
(15:25):
So so, so, so, so are this negotiator.
He's sitting across from me.And sometimes it's the same.
So yeah, well,but the important part is I'm
making it's you're, you're, you're sayingand I agree with you hundred percent.
We have a choice to make andwe take responsibility for that choice.
We have a lot better chance of making it.
(15:46):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And then on the mental side, that's a veryinteresting thing on the mental side.
And the mental side is a lot about focus.
What do you what does your mind focus on.
And I give you a nice story of the oldshoemaker, you know, who has two sons.
He wants to retire.
He doesn't know which of the sonhe gives the business to.
Sends them both to Africa.
(16:06):
One on the west, one on the east coast.
You know, the first son from the westcoast sends a note.
Bang says, father, I have very bad news.
There's no market here.
Everybody is barefoot.
The other son sends a no, begs his father.
Amazing, amazing.
Send me as many shoes as you can get.
This market is endless.
Everybody goes barefoot.
(16:28):
You know this.I think this encapsulates it.
And if there's one thing that we're not,it's many, many things.
But one critical thing is all of the topleaders
have a skill to see opportunitieswhen others see challenges.
And sometimes,I mean, I know quite a number of folks
who train themselves for this.
You know,
(16:48):
they basically say when the whole worldsees, oh, this is a big challenge.
I try to sort it out and say,what's my opportunity here?
You know, some people,I mean, a great friend of mine always says
common wisdom is almost,almost always wrong, you know, so
and I think this is a good mantra.
I mean, it's not 100% true,but more often than not,
and it helps you to saywhen something comes on,
(17:10):
okay, I have the common view,but is there another view?
Could I see it in another way?
What opportunity is in there?
Is there something hiddenthat others don't see?
This is how fortunes are made.
And alsoand so that's the and also on top of it,
when something bad happens,you know you how how do you frame it,
You have a way to say oh my God,oh my God, oh my God.
(17:31):
You know, and you go completely berserk.
Or do you say, well, in reality,what I'm seeing here is this.
And I will now work through it right?
That's what I.
Love about what you do. I'm sorry.
What I love what you just said.
And I want to underline it for peoplewho are listening, is a lot of people hear
opportunity versus problem or challenge,and they just hear positive thinking.
(17:56):
Now there's positive thinking in there.
But you're saying, I'm I'm making a choice
about how I look at it, not just saying,well, it's it's going to be okay.
And so it doesn't mean that positivethinking isn't helpful,
but you helped peopleif they will listen to what you just said,
frame it as something more than just that,which is really, really important.
(18:17):
The last of the sources of energyI don't want to lose these is spiritual.
So talk about that. For yes, spiritual.
One of the most difficult chapters for mebecause,
and I mean, it is a very
can be a very important sourceof, of energy.
But, it usually I mean, it'salmost like a four letter word, you know,
(18:38):
so, so that people don't talk aboutand I, I mean, people say, hey,
reflect on yourself, find somethingthat's bigger than that than yourself.
You know,
but I also think that,
at least for me, having having a belief
in something greater than me, a creator
(18:59):
was very, very importantin the worst times of my life
and the worst timeswhen it's not on the wonderful day to day.
The sun is shining out here in New York,you know, so beautiful, beautiful.
But I'm not talking about those days. I'm
talking about the days when you are aloneand you think this is really bad.
I don't know how I was goingto get out of this.
(19:19):
And and that's that's when a source
like spiritual source,somebody who you can talk to.
Right.
And and kind of listen for advice.
And that works very well.
So I call it the 24 over seven,
radio station, you know, that also has A18hundred number that you can dial
in, you know, and, and you always getit gives you something you know.
(19:41):
So my recommendation is, you know, try itout, you know, don't just throw it away.
Try it out,you know, and and no matter which,
which belief system suits you well,you know, try try it out and see.
And if you don't like it,you don't have to do it.
You know, I want to add one, onefifth thing which ties us all together.
And that's purpose.
Because what purpose does to energy?
(20:04):
It works like what laser does to light.
Light is very diffuse.
The moment you condense it in a laser,it goes through
even the toughest materials. Right.
And that's what purpose does to energy.
The moment
you apply a purpose and it can be mostpeople think it's just one purpose. No.
And the realitymost people have multiple roles in life.
(20:26):
You know, you have if you have children,
you probably have a purposethat you want to bring them up.
Well, you know, if you
if you run an important business,you probably have a purpose that you want
to make that business successful and also
but but think about it, what do youreally, really want to do with your life
and make this make this yours,you know, and again, with purpose,
(20:47):
if you feel like it'snot really giving you the trigger,
then you don't have to follow thatand follow something else, you know?
But it's the thingthat gets you out of bed.
Your best test isyou wake up in the morning
kind of tired was a late eveningbefore you the moment
your mind goes, oh, you know,I am wanting to do this.
That's what I want to do.
(21:07):
You can tell you, you,you get a shot of energy,
you jump out of bed and say,yeah, I want to get onto this.
You know, I want to get onto this.
If you feelnothing is coming to your mind, then it's
probably a good point in time of necessaryto reflect.
Reflect.
And I know, Kevin, you have youyou read the book.
You know,you are the one who read the book.
(21:28):
So it's a lot of onefirst and read the book.
No kidding.
So, so but but,there's a chapter in there on purpose of,
of, of a study that was done ofwhat do people say on their deathbed.
And I find that super chilling, you know,
super chillingbecause what they say on that death.
But nobody says, I wish I had spentmore time in the office.
(21:48):
What they do say, however, is I wish I hadbeen more allow myself to be happier.
I wish I had allowed myself to be happier,I mean.
So they suddenly realized on theirdeathbed that happiness is their choice.
That's the thing.That is the thing, you know?
And then another one is,I wish I had a lot myself to do
(22:08):
more of what I wanted to doand listen less to other people.
Right now, the good news is, hopefullyit's not the last day in our life.
You know, hopefullywe have a lot of great time ahead of us,
but make sure that that questionyou ask yourself now
and make a course change if you needa course change and think about it.
(22:30):
You know your life is still ahead of you.
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
I want to say I want to talk about purposea little bit more,
on the outer game side, because, you know,you've led large organizations and,
and you've,
you've written about it in the book inthe, in the back half of the book as well.
Again, I everything.
(22:50):
Thinking.
Everything we're talking about
is stuff that people who are listeningare going to say.
Yeah, I already know that. Yeah,I already know that.
But there's a big difference betweencommon knowledge and common practice.
I want you to to share
your wisdom and experience around purpose
and in how we help others find it
(23:11):
or how we coalesce it around our teamor our business.
Can you like whatwhat what have you learned there?
Because again, everyone talks about it.
But like, how do we as leadershelp our teams find that.
This is two questions in reality.
The first one isyour personal purpose. Right.
(23:32):
And then we can talk abouthow do you use purpose in business.
You know, two different things,you know, intertwined but not the same.
So the first thing onhow do you find your own purpose?
I have always struggled with this concept.
I really have to tell you,and that was one of the pleasures
that I lost myself in writing the book,because I said,
(23:53):
If I'm going to write about it,I have to really master it.
So I looked at a ton of stuffthat was written about purpose
and realized purposehas been the discussion of mankind
since the existence of mankind,
you know, because it is somethingthat's out in nature.
Why are we here?
What are we going to do?
(24:13):
You know, the the questionthat everybody's going to ask themselves,
you know, so and I realize that, thatthat it's not just one purpose.
It could be multiple purposes.
And purpose
can change over time as you are changingand your situation changes over time.
It's not that you have to hit itright right away,
but one of the tests I gave you already,I mean, does it make you jump out of that
(24:37):
quickly and be motivated,you know, does it get the spirits flowing
and or does it make you feelif you think this might be my last day
on this planet,that you have never fulfilled life.
So these are these are good questions.
But the answer isyou only can find yourself and
and that you can find them alsoby sorting out the voices in your head,
I mean to basically find outwhich is me in those voices
(24:59):
or which is just somebodytrying to impose their thoughts,
you know, mother or father,you know, friend, sister,
you know,God knows what you know, colleagues
who are trying to impose this on meand I wrongly believe this is me.
You know, that's a very,very important thing, sorting that out.
So then let's go to the business side.
And on the business side,I would call it the vision for a business.
(25:21):
You know that.
And one of the things that I foundfascinating,
I've done a lot of restructuringsin my, my life, you know, and
and at the at that time when I started,I realized and I looked also
at some others that had not beenso successful because very often
I was called in at a time when othershad tried or already, you know, and,
(25:45):
and so I
realized thatone of the things that people were missing
is that they didn'tprovide a positive vision,
a soul and a soul of the firm.
The purpose of the firm was missing.
The emotional side was missing.
And and you have to somehow bring it back.
With early wins, you have to remind peoplewhat they are doing.
(26:05):
I mean, I'm happy to share a story that,of what one time I ran the angiography
and X-ray business and Siemens,it was the foundation of, of
of of Siemens Medicaland and it was also at the obviously
the oldest business and at that time,
computed tomography as well as MRIwas much, much cooler ultrasound.
So I came inand my colleagues referred to me,
(26:27):
oh, here's a new guywho's running the rusty nuts and bolts
business, you know, and everybody everywe were losing money for four years.
They were losing money.
And if ever I had a tell in my teamand they got an offer from somebody else,
they were gone, you know, so, so,so fortunately, I had asked to be to,
to be as an intern apprentice in some ofthe hospitals before I took the role.
(26:51):
And I had seen some stuffthat we were able to do that
other modalities couldn't do,like interventions.
Many, many interventions.
So I invited a patient
to an
all hands meeting, the young lady,25 years old or so.
You know, she came on stageat the end of the meeting.
I didn't say much.I said, she wants to talk about it.
She then talked about how my whole lifehad become miserable
(27:13):
because she had this very odd bloodclotting disease
and how she had been diagnosedand treated with Siemens equipment.
Now, while she was talking, you I mean,first people thought, what is this?
I in class is bringing some girlwe don't know, you know and
and but the more she was talking aboutherself, the more people realized
this has something to dowith what we are doing here.
(27:33):
And in the medical business,you have to document very finely
who personally has been involvedin building and developing things.
So I gave her this list of the equipmentthat she had been diagnosed
and treated with.
And at the end
she said, I want to read all those namesand people who come on to the stage.
I want to thank you for making my lifeliving livable again.
(27:54):
You know, these people came on stage.
This is the northern part of Bavaria.
You know,people are not easily moved, you know, so
they came on stage and tears were flowing.
You know, they
they asked me at the end of itwhether they can show her around.
I said, sure, sure around, you know, takethe the evening the head off the workers,
a union came, came to meand you said close thank you.
(28:14):
I said, what for? He said, thank you.
You've reminded us why we are here,and you've given us our soul back.
From that momenton, the turnaround was in the pocket.
We we moved, you know, and todayit's one of the most profitable
and one of the most successfulbusiness units still there.
And I, I, I, I'm so happy, you know,
I'm so happy and attracting the bestand brightest, you know. So,
(28:38):
that's what I mean.
We did the similar thing at Alcoawhen we invited,
a, an astronaut talkingabout the last, minutes on the countdown.
And when you are getting separatedfrom outer space, very,
pleasant environment just through the skinthat thick of aluminum
and knowing that it's been made by peoplewho hold, quality standards
(28:59):
very, very, very high, you know, thatthey won't even tolerate a grain,
impurity there.
I mean, gives them allthe confidence, you know?
So that's very, very important.
And it's no surprise them,I mean, some of the richest men
on our planet, and they all havethese visions, you know, look at Amazon.
I mean, why did Bezoschoose the word Amazon on the name Amazon?
(29:22):
Because he had in mind
the largest river of the world flowing,bringing water to everyone.
You know,when he started as a online bookseller
and you know,
with Microsoft,I mean, a computer on every desk,
you know, it was for,I mean, and our generation, a computer
was something that you couldn'teven think that a normal individual,
(29:46):
would be able to afford this,you know, or Elon Musk,
a multi-planetary mankindand everything stems from this,
you know, and the rest is history,you know?
So very important.
I appreciate yousharing those two stories.
Because, well,
especially the one I knew for sure,I was pretty sure you would tell if I.
If I prompted you semi skillfully
(30:08):
and and I think for all of us as leaders,we we can
we can take those lessonsbecause we don't have to be able to get
an astronaut to come to our team meeting,but we can personalize the work.
Well,what I take from those stories is that
how can we help peoplesee someone that their work is impacting,
rather than, I'm just doing this work,who is impacted?
(30:31):
How are they impacted is the morewe can do that, the more we can help.
As you said in your story,bring the soul back to the work.
And when we can do that,we can start to change everything.
I really appreciate that.
Because I knew we would get to this pointin this conversation,
and I would have gottenabout a third of the way through stuff.
I would like to talk to you with youabout,
(30:51):
and I hope that what that does foreverybody is to say, hey,
I need to get a copy of this bookleading to thrive.
But I do want to sort of shift
into the final part of our conversationin just a couple of more things before
we go, I'd really like to know,because we opened this by saying
successful in business and successfulin life.
Personally and professionally both.
(31:13):
I'm curious, what do you do for fun?
A lot of things.
I love music.
I mean, I'm,I love all star, all kinds of music.
So, from from bluesto soul, to classical music to opera.
I'm a big music fan.
That's what I like.
I like working out, swimming.
(31:36):
I mean, in the summertime,you know? So to to to swim.
I'd like itmore outside than that. Inside.
I love to play tennis.
Those those are things.
And I'd love to be with my family.
You know, I really get a kick out of this.
And I also love to workwith a lot of people all around the world.
That gives meenergy, really gives me energy.
And the only thing you knew I would askyou is this.
(31:57):
What are you reading these days?Or as you told me.
Well, Kevin, I listen more. That counts.
That's fine. Yes.
So you wouldn't expect that, you know?
So, so, I, I, I'm currently listening to,
a book called The Great, expectationsfrom Charles Dickens.
So I've gone back, I've goneback to the classics
(32:20):
and, and,and I get great pleasure out of this.
The one that I just finished.
And it's it was fantastic experience.
I'd never read it before.
It was The Count of Monte Cristofrom Alexandre Dumas.
I mean, amazing,
absolutely amazing book, amazingbook, amazing story.
And also, and my
(32:43):
I have to tell you,when I read business books these days,
I usually do read them,but I read them very fast.
Right? And, yeah.
So I have to tell you, I
told you before we went live thatI was going to ask you this question. And,
this is the 500 plus.
There'sprobably have been about 500 episodes
(33:04):
where I had a guestwho I asked this question of, and,
we've gotten everything we've got inchildren's books, we've gotten science
fiction, we've gotten everythingand we've gotten classics.
But I'm pretty sure that until today,we've never had great expectations
in The Count of Monte Cristo.
So they'll be in the show
notes, everybody, as long as along with,of course, leading to thrive.
(33:24):
Klaus, how do you want towhere do you want to point people?
How can people connect with you?Where do you want to let them?
There's New York.
There's a website calledLeading to Thrive.
You know, there you can send me asend me a note, and I'm on LinkedIn.
And that's actually the only social mediathat I really do, do personally.
And, and other than that, the bookyou find on Amazon
(33:45):
and you find it also on,on other platforms all around the world.
Yeah.
And there's a great audiobookon that read, read by a wonderful person,
Rich Miller.
Great voice,great voice, great voice I love it.
Great book.
I would recommend that.
Leading hyphen to hyphen thrive.com.
You want to make sure you gothere. That'll all be in there chef.
(34:05):
Sorry buddy.
And now everybodybefore I say goodbye to Klaus and to you
a question that I ask all of youevery single episode.
If you've been here before,you know what I'm about to ask.
The question is, now what?
So you've you've had the chance to listento this conversation,
learn from the wisdom of Klaus.
And the question is,what are you going to do?
Because if you don't take action, sort ofwhat's the point, right?
(34:29):
Whether that's thinking abouthow you can reframe or help
rekindle purpose for your team,or whether that's helping
you think about how you're managingyour energy in new ways,
or whether that's how you thinkabout how you can apply discipline
differently in your lifeto help you manage that energy.
It could be any of those thingsor 50 other things.
(34:50):
It's not for me to tell you whatthat should be, but rather for you
to think about the applicationyou will take.
Because one of the things that we said
from the beginningis there's a lot of stuff
that we're talking about thatyou already know.
It doesn't matter what you know,it matters what you do.
I hope you'll do that.
If you do that, what you will have doneis made this a very valuable use
(35:11):
of your time, hopefullyraising your energy rather than losing it.
All right.
I hope that that is true, Klaus.
Thank you so much for being here.
It was a pleasure to spend this timewith you.
Kevin. Likewise. And, see you soon.
All right, everybody, so if you love this,
tell somebody elseso they can love it too.
And if you love this,wherever you're watching it
or listening to this podcast,make sure you leave a comment.
(35:33):
We'd love you to do that.
But most of all, I hope you'll subscribeand come back next week
for another episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast.
Thanks everybody.
Being a leader at
any level is harder now than ever.
It is both complex and important work,
and you're listening to this podcastbecause you want to be a better leader.
That's wonderful.
My guests and I both believethat we can be successful as leaders
and more successful as human beings.
(00:30):
At the same time,this may be the most valuable conversation
you listen to this year because we'renot just talking about you as a leader,
but you as a person.
Welcome to another episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast,
where we are helping leadersgrow personally and professionally
to lead more effectivelyand make a bigger difference
for their teams, organizationsand the world.
(00:53):
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Live on your favoritesocial media channel.
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Just go to remarkable podcast.com/facebook
(01:16):
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We'd love to have you do that.
Today's episode is brought to youby my latest book, Flexible
Leadership Navigate Uncertaintyand Lead with Confidence.
It's time to realize that stylescan get in our way, and that following
our strengths might not always be the bestor the complete approach.
(01:37):
In a world more complex and uncertainthan ever.
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That'swhat flexible leadership can do for you.
Learn more and orderyour copy now at remarkable
podcast.com/flexible.
Now with that I'm goingto bring in my guest and introduce him.
And we will dive in.
(01:58):
His name is Doctor Klaus Kleinfeld.
He is the only leader everybody to havesuccessfully served as CEO of two fortune
500 giants on different continents,
Alcoa in the US and Siemens in Germany.
With a nearly 40 yearcareer spanning multiple industries
from established business businessesto tech startups.
(02:21):
He has advised US presidentsand global leaders across Europe,
Asia and the middle East.
As a founder of K2 elevation,he invests in North
American and European techand biotech firms.
He is also the author of leading to ThriveMastering
Strategies for Sustainable Successin Business and Life.
(02:43):
He's actively engaged in private sectorpublic affairs and cultural boards.
He's a dual citizen of the USand a European citizen, and he works
enjoys his work
life and family near New York,where he's coming to us from today.
And he is our guest.
And, Klaus, I'm glad to have you.
Thanks for being here.
(03:03):
Well, pleasure.
Pleasure, Kevin.
So, before we get to the bookitself, in the book, you talk a little bit
about your journey, and, you know, there'sthere's the journey of business.
And I sort of outlined that in the,in the opening, but your but your whole
background, your journey that gets you tothis point starts earlier than that.
(03:26):
And I think telling us a little bit aboutthat will give us greater perspective
on you and quite honestly,
make us even more interestedin wanting to hear what you've got to say.
Can you share a little bit about that?
Sure, sure.
Born in Germany, raised by parentswho had fled from East Germany,
and started afresh,after the Second World War.
(03:47):
And, the momentas a woman, things got better.
Unfortunately,my my father died when I was ten,
so that threw me into an accelerated phaseof growing up and having to work.
I got my first paying job was 12 years,
and I thinksince then I've never stopped working.
And, and and to did a lot of things
(04:08):
in my life obviously over, over time
what also happened, which greatlyand that greatly influenced me.
The other thing that greatly influenced meis when, when my father died,
my motherdecided that during the vacation time,
if she went back to workand during vacation time,
she sent me back to visitmy relatives in East Germany.
So I spent a very fair bit of time,
(04:30):
in East Germany and, during my childhood.
And I grew up in a systemthat obviously was
very different to my West German system.
And, and, that formed a view
on, on a conceptthat unfortunately, people,
some concepts of life that you onlyrealize when they, when things are gone.
(04:51):
And freedom is one of those, you know,so freedom that led me to, very much
appreciate freedom and also realize,
in how many ways shapes or forms it comes.
And also that sometimeswhen you don't have it,
you can be very courageous to still,
(05:11):
push the envelope and, and,that form for me in getting to know people
who did that and seeing how they copewith their life in spite of,
not so nice
circumstances that they had to livewith also young people.
Right.
So that those two things formed me and,
you know, have led me to do things
(05:34):
that I did in my life, you know, so,
by the way, also coming over
from, from Germanyhere to the US and becoming a citizen,
and my whole family is very, very happyhere.
Well, we're glad to have you.
I'll just say that, you collectively,
you and I were talking before weI hit the Let's Go live button, and,
(05:55):
we were talking a little bit about thisbook and, you know,
you have a 40 yearcareer, history in business,
and now you've written this book,and you said,
something along the lines of, well,I didn't just want to add
another business.
So I'm curious,why did you choose to write for.
Well, what what happenedis, that I have seen and coached a lot of,
(06:21):
a lot of, CEOs and leaders, you know,
and now that I have a little bitmore time, I've accelerated that.
And and what I noticed is two things.
One is that too many,
don't have not done the jobin sorting out their own self
and therefore is holding them backto become very effective.
(06:43):
That's one thing I saw the other thingI saw is that a concept
that I unfortunately had thought was only
there, and people who are in businessfor a longer time also happens.
And the younger generation,that's burnout.
I saw burnout happening in some of the,
companies that I invested inand started startup companies already
kind ofnot not quite in the startup phase,
(07:03):
but in the in the, aroundthe phase, you know. So,
and, and
and when I saw this, I realizedit's all tied to one concept.
And the concept isthey did not have an understanding,
a framework of what is neededto run your life successfully.
And, that'swhy it starts with the inner game.
(07:24):
My book starts leading to story, startswith the inner game,
and then goes to the classic leadershipstuff, the outer game.
And frankly,the inner game is all about energy.
You know, how how do you get energy?
Do you have enough energy?
And if you don't have enough energy,then you can't bring it to anything.
Or so you the other way.
If you have plenty of it,you can bring it to business.
You can bring it to your life, you know,and you can,
(07:46):
lead a very, very fulfilled life.
So that's the core.
The inner game was the core motivationto sit down.
And the other thing is, I also thought,I can do this simply by teaching
one on one,you know, I also have to put it in some,
some version that people can pick up andread it or listen to it on an audiobook.
Which leads us to the book.
(08:07):
And you mentioned, the inner game versusthe outer game.
I put that in the lower third.
I put that back up in a second,because that's really where I want to
focus as, again,as I told you before we went live,
that to me is the partthat makes this book exceptional.
Is the stuff about inner game and you.
So let's say a little bit moreabout what you mean about the difference
(08:30):
between inner game and outer game.
Well, it's relatively simple.
The inner game is, basicallyhow you personally lead the day to day
life and your long termgoals, your purpose, you know, so
and then the outer game iswhatever this energy you bring it to.
(08:51):
And in my book, I cover the auto gamemainly on the business side.
But there's another aspect,you know, there's where the inner game is
equally important as you alsobring it to the other parts of life,
you know,whether it is in social engagements,
whether it's your family, whether it'sfriendships or God knows what you know.
So without sorting out the inner game,there is no successful,
(09:13):
sustainable outer game,no matter what you choose, you know?
And then finally,that's come to the inner game
so that we canprobably get our hands around it.
What is this?
And it's really about understanding thatthat it is about managing energy.
It starts with managing energy.
And, the oh, it's old wisdom.
I mean, it's body, mind and soul.
(09:33):
And I separate the mind into emotionsand mental, you know,
so and most people understandif you don't treat your body well,
you know, if you don't work out, if youif your diet is bad, you sleep, you know,
whatever you drink, hydration, you know,if that's bad, then you don't have energy.
You can't get anything done, you know.
So that's very well understoodby most people.
Oh, let me put itthis way as well. Understood.
(09:55):
And probably not enough practice,you know.
So yes, I was just going to saythere's a difference between knowledge and
action class.
So let's talk let's just talk about that
because, you know, everyone knows,like mom taught us, right?
Make sure you get good rest,eat a balanced meal, go exercise
all that stuff like everybody knows it,
(10:17):
especially for leaders
at all levels,not just at the in the C-suite.
But why is it that there's such a break
between we know it, but we don't do it.
It's just hard.
It's it's requires discipline.
And that's the other fascinating concept.
We're not talking about a concept that as,as, as somebody growing up in Germany,
(10:40):
you get you learn thatvery early discipline, you know,
and most people think,you know, it's all about discipline.
You just plow through.
But that's not the way it works, you know,because the moment you exert discipline
and you exert energy, so you burn out,you wake up and the more energy burns
through during the course of the day
you wake up in the morning,you should be relatively refreshed.
(11:00):
You know? And then you say,what do I apply to now?
Have a cup of coffee and get going. Boom.
You know, so but the moment you have toexert discipline, your energy burns out.
And I don't know whether you had this.
I had that bad habit,you know, that I was doing really well
during the whole course of the day,in spite of all the dramatic things
that happened every day.
You know, I come home, I have eating well,
(11:24):
I go to the fridge, I go to the freezer
and there it is,a pint of my favorite ice cream.
And I think just one little spoon.
And then like probably 15 minutes later,I look at an empty, complete package.
I said, who ate that?
Who ate that? You know.
And I you said, I have to
(11:44):
give up ice cream class, pleasetell me I don't have to give up ice cream.
Exactly.
So, so the concept of disciplineis also there.
There's a trick to this.
I mean, ideally you want to you don't wantto have to exhort to discipline.
So basicallyyou means you have to eliminate
from your environmentall those cues, you know.
So ideallyif I would have opened the freezer
(12:05):
and there was, would have only been thingsthat I don't fancy, then look,
I would have probably come back beenfrustrated for ten minutes, but then said,
okay, I'll bring some water, you know,and then I go to bed.
Two very good decisions,you know, that I would have taken in spite
of the very bad one,
which came from the great intentionthat I should have in my freeze
on my favorite ice cream.
(12:27):
You know, so that's one thing.
But I think on the physical side,my impression is, most people understand
it decently well, particularlywhen they are making it into leadership.
But the things that are really notwell understood, the ones that are dealing
with the kind of mental,emotional, mental and spiritual,
you know, so, so having a shallwe talk a little bit about that?
(12:48):
Yeah.
As I wanted to get to this,the sources of energy that's ready.
But before you do that,I wanted to say one of my,
one of my mentors, I'mthinking about this related.
You're asking me said, you know what?
I love donuts, but I don't eat donutsbecause I don't drive
by the donut shop like I if I have to gothree blocks out of the way,
because I know if I driveby the donut shop
just like,you know, if I open the freezer,
there's the ice cream, like it's again,we know this, but we don't do it.
(13:13):
And and, you know, there'sthis ripple effect when we're leaders.
And of course, as leader, it's not the icecream at the office necessarily.
But like if, if we're not actif we're not exerting the discipline
in the areas most important,
because our folks are watching.
Right.
We're modeling whether we like it, whetherwe like what they're seeing or not.
And so it's especially important,I think, for us in a leadership role.
(13:36):
But yeah, let's talk about the
the sources of energy because I think,yeah, this is a really important piece.
So we talked about physical alreadya little bit. Right.
So let's let's address the emotionalthe mental and the spiritual.
I mean let's start with the emotional
I think a lot ofI mean all of us have emotions.
And I believe we have situations,stressful situations
when we have negotiations.
And the other side is trying to poke usor says things that we don't like,
(13:59):
and we're getting angryand we're getting angry.
And the moment we're getting angry,something happens in us.
We lose energy.
You know, a lot of the energythat we have,
you know, gets burned off,you know, and and that's the issue.
Most people say,oh my God, I can't do anything with it.
But there's a very, very simple trick.
And the very simple trick isyou have to understand the energy
(14:23):
is what somebody else imposes on you.
But it's are it'scompletely inside of your own control.
You are the ones that allow the energyto happen inside of you.
So if you agree with me on that,you also can control it.
So you can basically say thatI'm listening
(14:43):
here goes into this side of the year,goes out of this side of the year.
I concentrate on my breathing.
You know, I look outside the window,you know, and I am not getting provoked
because I'm sayingwhat this person is talking about.
It's not relevant for me.
And you'repreparing your next argument, right?
So breathing is a very,very important part in this.
You know, just to concentrateon breathing.
(15:04):
The other side doesn't even notice that,you know, it's very good.
But the most important thing
is that the moment it comes,you filter out in your head that this is
somebody else's opinion has nothing to dowith whether it's my opinion or not.
I don't accept that,and I will not allow my emotions
to be wasted on this creepwho's sitting across from me, you know?
(15:25):
So so, so, so, so are this negotiator.
He's sitting across from me.And sometimes it's the same.
So yeah, well,but the important part is I'm
making it's you're, you're, you're sayingand I agree with you hundred percent.
We have a choice to make andwe take responsibility for that choice.
We have a lot better chance of making it.
(15:46):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And then on the mental side, that's a veryinteresting thing on the mental side.
And the mental side is a lot about focus.
What do you what does your mind focus on.
And I give you a nice story of the oldshoemaker, you know, who has two sons.
He wants to retire.
He doesn't know which of the sonhe gives the business to.
Sends them both to Africa.
(16:06):
One on the west, one on the east coast.
You know, the first son from the westcoast sends a note.
Bang says, father, I have very bad news.
There's no market here.
Everybody is barefoot.
The other son sends a no, begs his father.
Amazing, amazing.
Send me as many shoes as you can get.
This market is endless.
Everybody goes barefoot.
(16:28):
You know this.I think this encapsulates it.
And if there's one thing that we're not,it's many, many things.
But one critical thing is all of the topleaders
have a skill to see opportunitieswhen others see challenges.
And sometimes,I mean, I know quite a number of folks
who train themselves for this.
You know,
(16:48):
they basically say when the whole worldsees, oh, this is a big challenge.
I try to sort it out and say,what's my opportunity here?
You know, some people,I mean, a great friend of mine always says
common wisdom is almost,almost always wrong, you know, so
and I think this is a good mantra.
I mean, it's not 100% true,but more often than not,
and it helps you to saywhen something comes on,
(17:10):
okay, I have the common view,but is there another view?
Could I see it in another way?
What opportunity is in there?
Is there something hiddenthat others don't see?
This is how fortunes are made.
And alsoand so that's the and also on top of it,
when something bad happens,you know you how how do you frame it,
You have a way to say oh my God,oh my God, oh my God.
(17:31):
You know, and you go completely berserk.
Or do you say, well, in reality,what I'm seeing here is this.
And I will now work through it right?
That's what I.
Love about what you do. I'm sorry.
What I love what you just said.
And I want to underline it for peoplewho are listening, is a lot of people hear
opportunity versus problem or challenge,and they just hear positive thinking.
(17:56):
Now there's positive thinking in there.
But you're saying, I'm I'm making a choice
about how I look at it, not just saying,well, it's it's going to be okay.
And so it doesn't mean that positivethinking isn't helpful,
but you helped peopleif they will listen to what you just said,
frame it as something more than just that,which is really, really important.
(18:17):
The last of the sources of energyI don't want to lose these is spiritual.
So talk about that. For yes, spiritual.
One of the most difficult chapters for mebecause,
and I mean, it is a very
can be a very important sourceof, of energy.
But, it usually I mean, it'salmost like a four letter word, you know,
(18:38):
so, so that people don't talk aboutand I, I mean, people say, hey,
reflect on yourself, find somethingthat's bigger than that than yourself.
You know,
but I also think that,
at least for me, having having a belief
in something greater than me, a creator
(18:59):
was very, very importantin the worst times of my life
and the worst timeswhen it's not on the wonderful day to day.
The sun is shining out here in New York,you know, so beautiful, beautiful.
But I'm not talking about those days. I'm
talking about the days when you are aloneand you think this is really bad.
I don't know how I was goingto get out of this.
(19:19):
And and that's that's when a source
like spiritual source,somebody who you can talk to.
Right.
And and kind of listen for advice.
And that works very well.
So I call it the 24 over seven,
radio station, you know, that also has A18hundred number that you can dial
in, you know, and, and you always getit gives you something you know.
(19:41):
So my recommendation is, you know, try itout, you know, don't just throw it away.
Try it out,you know, and and no matter which,
which belief system suits you well,you know, try try it out and see.
And if you don't like it,you don't have to do it.
You know, I want to add one, onefifth thing which ties us all together.
And that's purpose.
Because what purpose does to energy?
(20:04):
It works like what laser does to light.
Light is very diffuse.
The moment you condense it in a laser,it goes through
even the toughest materials. Right.
And that's what purpose does to energy.
The moment
you apply a purpose and it can be mostpeople think it's just one purpose. No.
And the realitymost people have multiple roles in life.
(20:26):
You know, you have if you have children,
you probably have a purposethat you want to bring them up.
Well, you know, if you
if you run an important business,you probably have a purpose that you want
to make that business successful and also
but but think about it, what do youreally, really want to do with your life
and make this make this yours,you know, and again, with purpose,
(20:47):
if you feel like it'snot really giving you the trigger,
then you don't have to follow thatand follow something else, you know?
But it's the thingthat gets you out of bed.
Your best test isyou wake up in the morning
kind of tired was a late eveningbefore you the moment
your mind goes, oh, you know,I am wanting to do this.
That's what I want to do.
(21:07):
You can tell you, you,you get a shot of energy,
you jump out of bed and say,yeah, I want to get onto this.
You know, I want to get onto this.
If you feelnothing is coming to your mind, then it's
probably a good point in time of necessaryto reflect.
Reflect.
And I know, Kevin, you have youyou read the book.
You know,you are the one who read the book.
(21:28):
So it's a lot of onefirst and read the book.
No kidding.
So, so but but,there's a chapter in there on purpose of,
of, of a study that was done ofwhat do people say on their deathbed.
And I find that super chilling, you know,
super chillingbecause what they say on that death.
But nobody says, I wish I had spentmore time in the office.
(21:48):
What they do say, however, is I wish I hadbeen more allow myself to be happier.
I wish I had allowed myself to be happier,I mean.
So they suddenly realized on theirdeathbed that happiness is their choice.
That's the thing.That is the thing, you know?
And then another one is,I wish I had a lot myself to do
(22:08):
more of what I wanted to doand listen less to other people.
Right now, the good news is, hopefullyit's not the last day in our life.
You know, hopefullywe have a lot of great time ahead of us,
but make sure that that questionyou ask yourself now
and make a course change if you needa course change and think about it.
(22:30):
You know your life is still ahead of you.
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
I want to say I want to talk about purposea little bit more,
on the outer game side, because, you know,you've led large organizations and,
and you've,
you've written about it in the book inthe, in the back half of the book as well.
Again, I everything.
(22:50):
Thinking.
Everything we're talking about
is stuff that people who are listeningare going to say.
Yeah, I already know that. Yeah,I already know that.
But there's a big difference betweencommon knowledge and common practice.
I want you to to share
your wisdom and experience around purpose
and in how we help others find it
(23:11):
or how we coalesce it around our teamor our business.
Can you like whatwhat what have you learned there?
Because again, everyone talks about it.
But like, how do we as leadershelp our teams find that.
This is two questions in reality.
The first one isyour personal purpose. Right.
(23:32):
And then we can talk abouthow do you use purpose in business.
You know, two different things,you know, intertwined but not the same.
So the first thing onhow do you find your own purpose?
I have always struggled with this concept.
I really have to tell you,and that was one of the pleasures
that I lost myself in writing the book,because I said,
(23:53):
If I'm going to write about it,I have to really master it.
So I looked at a ton of stuffthat was written about purpose
and realized purposehas been the discussion of mankind
since the existence of mankind,
you know, because it is somethingthat's out in nature.
Why are we here?
What are we going to do?
(24:13):
You know, the the questionthat everybody's going to ask themselves,
you know, so and I realize that, thatthat it's not just one purpose.
It could be multiple purposes.
And purpose
can change over time as you are changingand your situation changes over time.
It's not that you have to hit itright right away,
but one of the tests I gave you already,I mean, does it make you jump out of that
(24:37):
quickly and be motivated,you know, does it get the spirits flowing
and or does it make you feelif you think this might be my last day
on this planet,that you have never fulfilled life.
So these are these are good questions.
But the answer isyou only can find yourself and
and that you can find them alsoby sorting out the voices in your head,
I mean to basically find outwhich is me in those voices
(24:59):
or which is just somebodytrying to impose their thoughts,
you know, mother or father,you know, friend, sister,
you know,God knows what you know, colleagues
who are trying to impose this on meand I wrongly believe this is me.
You know, that's a very,very important thing, sorting that out.
So then let's go to the business side.
And on the business side,I would call it the vision for a business.
(25:21):
You know that.
And one of the things that I foundfascinating,
I've done a lot of restructuringsin my, my life, you know, and
and at the at that time when I started,I realized and I looked also
at some others that had not beenso successful because very often
I was called in at a time when othershad tried or already, you know, and,
(25:45):
and so I
realized thatone of the things that people were missing
is that they didn'tprovide a positive vision,
a soul and a soul of the firm.
The purpose of the firm was missing.
The emotional side was missing.
And and you have to somehow bring it back.
With early wins, you have to remind peoplewhat they are doing.
(26:05):
I mean, I'm happy to share a story that,of what one time I ran the angiography
and X-ray business and Siemens,it was the foundation of, of
of of Siemens Medicaland and it was also at the obviously
the oldest business and at that time,
computed tomography as well as MRIwas much, much cooler ultrasound.
So I came inand my colleagues referred to me,
(26:27):
oh, here's a new guywho's running the rusty nuts and bolts
business, you know, and everybody everywe were losing money for four years.
They were losing money.
And if ever I had a tell in my teamand they got an offer from somebody else,
they were gone, you know, so, so,so fortunately, I had asked to be to,
to be as an intern apprentice in some ofthe hospitals before I took the role.
(26:51):
And I had seen some stuffthat we were able to do that
other modalities couldn't do,like interventions.
Many, many interventions.
So I invited a patient
to an
all hands meeting, the young lady,25 years old or so.
You know, she came on stageat the end of the meeting.
I didn't say much.I said, she wants to talk about it.
She then talked about how my whole lifehad become miserable
(27:13):
because she had this very odd bloodclotting disease
and how she had been diagnosedand treated with Siemens equipment.
Now, while she was talking, you I mean,first people thought, what is this?
I in class is bringing some girlwe don't know, you know and
and but the more she was talking aboutherself, the more people realized
this has something to dowith what we are doing here.
(27:33):
And in the medical business,you have to document very finely
who personally has been involvedin building and developing things.
So I gave her this list of the equipmentthat she had been diagnosed
and treated with.
And at the end
she said, I want to read all those namesand people who come on to the stage.
I want to thank you for making my lifeliving livable again.
(27:54):
You know, these people came on stage.
This is the northern part of Bavaria.
You know,people are not easily moved, you know, so
they came on stage and tears were flowing.
You know, they
they asked me at the end of itwhether they can show her around.
I said, sure, sure around, you know, takethe the evening the head off the workers,
a union came, came to meand you said close thank you.
(28:14):
I said, what for? He said, thank you.
You've reminded us why we are here,and you've given us our soul back.
From that momenton, the turnaround was in the pocket.
We we moved, you know, and todayit's one of the most profitable
and one of the most successfulbusiness units still there.
And I, I, I, I'm so happy, you know,
I'm so happy and attracting the bestand brightest, you know. So,
(28:38):
that's what I mean.
We did the similar thing at Alcoawhen we invited,
a, an astronaut talkingabout the last, minutes on the countdown.
And when you are getting separatedfrom outer space, very,
pleasant environment just through the skinthat thick of aluminum
and knowing that it's been made by peoplewho hold, quality standards
(28:59):
very, very, very high, you know, thatthey won't even tolerate a grain,
impurity there.
I mean, gives them allthe confidence, you know?
So that's very, very important.
And it's no surprise them,I mean, some of the richest men
on our planet, and they all havethese visions, you know, look at Amazon.
I mean, why did Bezoschoose the word Amazon on the name Amazon?
(29:22):
Because he had in mind
the largest river of the world flowing,bringing water to everyone.
You know,when he started as a online bookseller
and you know,
with Microsoft,I mean, a computer on every desk,
you know, it was for,I mean, and our generation, a computer
was something that you couldn'teven think that a normal individual,
(29:46):
would be able to afford this,you know, or Elon Musk,
a multi-planetary mankindand everything stems from this,
you know, and the rest is history,you know?
So very important.
I appreciate yousharing those two stories.
Because, well,
especially the one I knew for sure,I was pretty sure you would tell if I.
If I prompted you semi skillfully
(30:08):
and and I think for all of us as leaders,we we can
we can take those lessonsbecause we don't have to be able to get
an astronaut to come to our team meeting,but we can personalize the work.
Well,what I take from those stories is that
how can we help peoplesee someone that their work is impacting,
rather than, I'm just doing this work,who is impacted?
(30:31):
How are they impacted is the morewe can do that, the more we can help.
As you said in your story,bring the soul back to the work.
And when we can do that,we can start to change everything.
I really appreciate that.
Because I knew we would get to this pointin this conversation,
and I would have gottenabout a third of the way through stuff.
I would like to talk to you with youabout,
(30:51):
and I hope that what that does foreverybody is to say, hey,
I need to get a copy of this bookleading to thrive.
But I do want to sort of shift
into the final part of our conversationin just a couple of more things before
we go, I'd really like to know,because we opened this by saying
successful in business and successfulin life.
Personally and professionally both.
(31:13):
I'm curious, what do you do for fun?
A lot of things.
I love music.
I mean, I'm,I love all star, all kinds of music.
So, from from bluesto soul, to classical music to opera.
I'm a big music fan.
That's what I like.
I like working out, swimming.
(31:36):
I mean, in the summertime,you know? So to to to swim.
I'd like itmore outside than that. Inside.
I love to play tennis.
Those those are things.
And I'd love to be with my family.
You know, I really get a kick out of this.
And I also love to workwith a lot of people all around the world.
That gives meenergy, really gives me energy.
And the only thing you knew I would askyou is this.
(31:57):
What are you reading these days?Or as you told me.
Well, Kevin, I listen more. That counts.
That's fine. Yes.
So you wouldn't expect that, you know?
So, so, I, I, I'm currently listening to,
a book called The Great, expectationsfrom Charles Dickens.
So I've gone back, I've goneback to the classics
(32:20):
and, and,and I get great pleasure out of this.
The one that I just finished.
And it's it was fantastic experience.
I'd never read it before.
It was The Count of Monte Cristofrom Alexandre Dumas.
I mean, amazing,
absolutely amazing book, amazingbook, amazing story.
And also, and my
(32:43):
I have to tell you,when I read business books these days,
I usually do read them,but I read them very fast.
Right? And, yeah.
So I have to tell you, I
told you before we went live thatI was going to ask you this question. And,
this is the 500 plus.
There'sprobably have been about 500 episodes
(33:04):
where I had a guestwho I asked this question of, and,
we've gotten everything we've got inchildren's books, we've gotten science
fiction, we've gotten everythingand we've gotten classics.
But I'm pretty sure that until today,we've never had great expectations
in The Count of Monte Cristo.
So they'll be in the show
notes, everybody, as long as along with,of course, leading to thrive.
(33:24):
Klaus, how do you want towhere do you want to point people?
How can people connect with you?Where do you want to let them?
There's New York.
There's a website calledLeading to Thrive.
You know, there you can send me asend me a note, and I'm on LinkedIn.
And that's actually the only social mediathat I really do, do personally.
And, and other than that, the bookyou find on Amazon
(33:45):
and you find it also on,on other platforms all around the world.
Yeah.
And there's a great audiobookon that read, read by a wonderful person,
Rich Miller.
Great voice,great voice, great voice I love it.
Great book.
I would recommend that.
Leading hyphen to hyphen thrive.com.
You want to make sure you gothere. That'll all be in there chef.
(34:05):
Sorry buddy.
And now everybodybefore I say goodbye to Klaus and to you
a question that I ask all of youevery single episode.
If you've been here before,you know what I'm about to ask.
The question is, now what?
So you've you've had the chance to listento this conversation,
learn from the wisdom of Klaus.
And the question is,what are you going to do?
Because if you don't take action, sort ofwhat's the point, right?
(34:29):
Whether that's thinking abouthow you can reframe or help
rekindle purpose for your team,or whether that's helping
you think about how you're managingyour energy in new ways,
or whether that's how you thinkabout how you can apply discipline
differently in your lifeto help you manage that energy.
It could be any of those thingsor 50 other things.
(34:50):
It's not for me to tell you whatthat should be, but rather for you
to think about the applicationyou will take.
Because one of the things that we said
from the beginningis there's a lot of stuff
that we're talking about thatyou already know.
It doesn't matter what you know,it matters what you do.
I hope you'll do that.
If you do that, what you will have doneis made this a very valuable use
(35:11):
of your time, hopefullyraising your energy rather than losing it.
All right.
I hope that that is true, Klaus.
Thank you so much for being here.
It was a pleasure to spend this timewith you.
Kevin. Likewise. And, see you soon.
All right, everybody, so if you love this,
tell somebody elseso they can love it too.
And if you love this,wherever you're watching it
or listening to this podcast,make sure you leave a comment.
(35:33):
We'd love you to do that.
But most of all, I hope you'll subscribeand come back next week
for another episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast.
Thanks everybody.
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