July 23, 2025 • 39 mins
How often do we think of leadership not just as a set of skills, but as a reflection of our character? Kevin welcomes Meredith Bell to explore the often-overlooked connection between leadership effectiveness and character skills. Meredith highlights the importance of focusing on "who we are being" as leaders, not just what we are doing. Kevin and Meredith discuss why character isn’t fixed and how it can be intentionally developed over time. She introduces the 36 character skills, grouped into three core areas: building a stronger self, building stronger relationships, and building a stronger work ethic. Meredith offers practical strategies for developing patience with ourselves, with others, in everyday situations, and during life's big, uncertain moments.
Listen For
00:00 Welcome and Introduction
00:58 How to Join Future Live Episodes
01:15 Sponsor Message – Flexible Leadership Book
02:00 Introducing Guest Meredith Bell
03:32 Meredith's Journey from Teaching to Leadership Development
06:00 The Evolution of Grow Strong Leaders
07:00 Focus on Character in Leadership
08:40 What is Character and Why it Matters
10:00 Character as a Learnable Skill
10:45 The 36 Character Skills Framework
12:30 Universality and Cultural Relevance of Character Skills
14:20 Starting Points for Building Character
16:30 The Overlooked Value of Patience
18:00 Practicing Patience: With Self and Others
22:00 Real-Life Situations to Build Patience
23:10 Self-Awareness and Emotional Control
24:45 Practicing Patience During Major Life Events
26:00 Forgiveness as a Leadership Strength
28:00 The Importance of Letting Go and Positive Intent
31:00 Reflection and Control in Relationships
32:00 Meredith's Personal Interests and Book Recommendations
35:00 Grow Strong Leaders Skill Builder Program
36:00 Final Thoughts and Call to Action
Meredith's Story: Meredith Bell is the co-founder and president of Grow Strong Leaders. Her company publishes online tools that help leaders strengthen their character and communication skills, so they build strong relationships and inspire others to perform at the highest level. Meredith is the author of three books and the host of the Grow Strong Leaders Podcast. Meredith believes in building strong relationships herself. She and her two business partners have worked together for 31 years, and many of the customers have done business with her company for more than 20 years.
This Episode is brought to you by...
Flexible Leadership is every leader’s guide to greater success in a world of increasing complexity and chaos.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Lots of discussion about leadership
development is all around skills,and rightfully so.
But what about character?
And more specifically,what about character skills?
It's a fascinatingand valuable conversation for us to have,
which is exactly why we're having ittoday.
Welcome to another episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast,
(00:29):
where we are helping leadersgrow personally and professionally
to lead more effectivelyand make a bigger, positive difference
for their teams, organizationsand the world.
If you're listening to this podcast,you could join us in the future for live
episodeson your favorite social media platform.
Well, unless your social media platformis something that we don't or
we aren't on,like if your favorite is discord.
(00:51):
Well,then I'm not. I can't help you with that.
But but seriously,we're on a multiple platforms,
and we'd love to have you join us. Then,if you want to do that.
You can get this information sooner.
By the way,no disrespect to discord in that comment.
So you can get access to these live,
but you need to knowwhen they're going to be right.
So if you're connected to usand the podcast itself on LinkedIn
or Facebook, we make announcementsabout when those are going to be.
(01:14):
And that's the best wayfor you to find out.
So join our group, for Facebookby going to remarkable
podcast.com/facebook or our LinkedIn group
at remarkable podcast.com/linkedin.
How about that?
Today's episode is brought to youby my latest book, Flexible Leadership
Navigate Uncertaintyand Lead with Confidence.
It's timeto realize that styles can get in our way,
(01:38):
and that following our strengthsmight not always be the best approach
in a world more complex and uncertainthan ever, leaders need
a new perspective and a new set of toolsto create the great results
that their organizations and team memberswant and need.
That'swhat flexible leadership provides you.
Learn more and order your copyat remarkable podcast.com/flexible.
(02:00):
Seems logical to do that.
I hope you will do exactly thatand let me.
I can get my mouse to cooperate.
There we go.
There she is, the lovely and talentedMeredith Bell.
Let me introduce herand then we will dive in.
Meredith Bell is the co-founderand president of Grow Strong Leaders.
Her company publishesonline tools that help leaders strengthen
(02:22):
their character and communication skillsso they can build strong relationships
and inspire others to performat the highest level.
Meredith is the author of three booksand the host of the Grow
Strong Leaders podcast,which I have been a guest on.
She believes in buildingstrong relationships herself.
She and her two business partnershave worked together for 31 years,
(02:44):
and many of the customers have donebusiness with them for over 20 years.
Is a pleasure to introduce Meredith
to all of you because like I said,I've known it for a long time,
but this is the first timeshe's been on the show, so.
Meredith, welcome.
Thank you.
Kevin, I'm excited to be here.
Thank you for the invitation.
So let's see, we've gotwe've got hellos from Irving, Texas.
(03:06):
Good morning, Christina and the metroplex.
And we've got Paula from Ohio.
So we had two peoplethat have that have done as I asked.
So if others of you are here follow theirlead, tell us where you're located. So,
so, Meredith, your,
your bio or the intro that I used is,
(03:28):
is pretty straightforwardand to the point.
It doesn't really tell us a lotabout you beyond that,
I'm curious, like, you've beenin this business for a long time,
but I'm guessing when you were a ten yearold girl,
you probably didn't figure that you'd bein the business of leadership development.
So, like, how do you how do you get here?
(03:51):
Give us a little bit more
about the journey that gets Meredithto doing this great work.
And I was having this conversation.
So funny you saidwhen I was ten years old, because I know
exactly what I was doing and wanted to dowhen I was ten, which was be a teacher.
I would organize kids, you know, intoa classroom, and I would be the teacher.
(04:12):
And I ended up going into that profession,elementary school.
But you know what happened,Kevin is after a few years, I realized
I didn't carefor the repetitive lesson plans.
And so I ended up getting my mastersand I got into various school
board positions, being a supervisorand then a director of federal programs.
(04:33):
And then I realized I don't do bureaucracyvery well,
and I'm down to politics very well.
So what you're saying isyou can't find a stuff about a job
that you didn't do well,so you kept finding it.
Moving on to something else. I yeah.
And so with no business background at all,I decided to leave,
which was really strange back then,because once you had a job
(04:54):
in education, especially at the levelsI achieved, it was like
you got it made,but that wasn't fulfilling to me.
So one of the thingsI had always loved, though,
besides the teaching, was I was fascinatedaround communication skills.
I had done a lot of trainingsfor teachers, and so I decided to start
my own business and started doingtrainings for small businesses initially,
(05:19):
and then expanding to larger organizationsaround interpersonal skills.
And that led to workingwith a lot of leaders
and doing leadership developmentin a variety of areas.
But the core was always around howyou show up, how you interact with others.
Who are you being in this job as a leader?
(05:40):
And then in 91, I met Danny Coates.
He was a solo consultant doingsimilar work.
We started collaboratingand put our two businesses together
and brought in a third partner.
At that time, andwe've been working together ever since.
We made another major shift in 94to become a product company,
rather than conducting trainings and doing
(06:03):
consulting work, because we feltwe could have a greater impact.
And honestly, we were looking for a 360feedback tool at the time in the early 90s
and a good one that met our needsdidn't exist, so we decided to create one.
So we hired a developer and,
beta tested it with clients and realizedwe've got something here.
(06:24):
So we made another leap intosomething we'd never done, which was via
software company,and we've just never looked back.
So we're now into 33 yearsof working together and still
just as passionate as ever about
making a differencein the lives of leaders.
Because we know when we do that and helpthem be more effective in how they show up
(06:47):
and how they interact with others,that is going to have a ripple effect
with, everybody else in their lives,both at work and at home.
Well, that's a
great that's a great through line to wherewe're headed,
because I mentioned it in the open andit's really where we're going to focus.
We're gonna talk a lot about Danny'slatest book, Grow Strong Character,
(07:09):
which obviously you're a part of,even though you're not on the cover of.
And so I want to start with that wordcharacter, and I want to explore that word
a little bitin a couple of different ways. So
for those who are watching,I'll put it up on the screen.
But like yyou said, you you all started around
communication skillsand you still do a lot of work around
(07:30):
communication skillsas connected to this work as well.
But why character?
Why focus there?
Why is that so importantfrom your perspective?
You know, this is something
Danny and I have studied separatelyand together for more than 20 years.
This whole idea of what is characterand why is it important for leaders.
(07:52):
And so when I've done some programs,
I will ask the audience,you know, to enter into the chat,
what do you think of what comes to mindwhen you hear the phrase strong character?
And inevitably, words like integrity.
That's the word that comes up the most.
And, you know, trust and honesty.
And for us, what we realizedis it's really a composite
(08:16):
of different behavior patterns or habitsthat we develop over time.
So integrity is an aspect of character.
Trust is an aspect of character.
And so it's this idea
that and we use the term character skillsintentionally because to us
skills are behavior patternsthat can be developed.
(08:40):
And so this idea of is character fixed.
You know,do you either have it or you don't.
We all have some character or some.
One that's called a character many times,
but I don't think that's what you're goingto. Go for. Exactly.
But when we think of strong characteras a leader, we all get a sense of what
that represents, and we believethis is an area that can be developed.
(09:05):
It just as we can strengthen
communication skillslike listening or giving feedback.
So character is us is a composite
of various skillsthat can be developed over time.
I think you're saying you just said themboth, but I want to underline for everyone
you said two things that are important.
Number one is it's not a thing,it's a bunch of stuff, a composite.
(09:28):
We're going to talk aboutsome of those in a second.
And second of all,you believe that it's not fixed.
There's not stuff you were born with.
But rather a skill or a behavior.
And which means that you can learn it,develop it,
which is where we're goingto spend some of our time today.
So I love all that.
And in this composite that you're talking
(09:50):
about, isn't just integrity and trust.
You got 36 character skills.
And trust me, everybody,I am not going to ask her to list all 36.
We're not going to talk about all 36.
But, like,how did you come up with the list
and how did it become sort of the
the basis of the work?
(10:13):
You know, we we looked at all
kinds of aspects of who were being
when we looked atwhat is character really consist of.
And we decided that it made sense
to group them into three different areas.
They're all interconnected, butit's a way of getting your head around,
(10:34):
you know, a variety of skillsthat make up character.
So the first one is aroundbuilding a stronger self,
and the second one is buildingstronger relationships,
and the third isbuilding a stronger work ethic.
And so we found that there were a dozen
for each of thosethat kind of fell under that umbrella.
(10:57):
Of each of those three.
And and they're all interrelated, Kevin.
But what we did by separating them outis we looked at what are some discrete
things you could practice to get betterat this particular area.
That's an important aspect of character.
So people can self-assessor get input from others
(11:19):
if they had this list and say,when you read this list,
if I were to work on one thingto really strengthen it
and it would make a differencein my relationship
with you and my relationship with others,what's that one thing?
Yeah, that would be.
And we're going to talk abouta few of them here in a minute.
(11:40):
And haveyou give us some of that practical stuff.
One of the things that that struck meor that made me,
got me thinking is I was reading the book,
is that these all makes sense to me?
But you and you and I.
Denny, I think I know,are all from the United States,
(12:01):
where all of within reason,the same general age.
And so I guess I have a two part question.
And it relates to, worldwide or global
applicability, to what?
How did you think about that in termsof other cultures, number one, and
what feedbackhave you gotten about this list, which
(12:22):
seems like inherently
excellent and obvious to me,but I'm wondering
if I'm from another part of the world,if all of these would be the same for me.
I know that many would.
I'm just curious sort of how you howyou thought about that number one.
And number two,if you've gotten feedback around that.
Yes, we looked for
items, skillsthat would be universal no matter what,
(12:47):
what culture, what is itwe value as human beings
in this little areathat we think of as character?
So that was one of the thingsand I have gotten feedback.
It's more anecdotal, you know,
that people definitely relate to these.
And of course, even within, say,the United States or North America,
(13:10):
you have certain aspects of characteror even within a given company
that are valued highly,
by folks and really emphasized as being,
I won't say more important than others,but given greater emphasis over time.
Which I think is a really important point,because, you know,
there are 36 and in the.
(13:35):
With the goal
of being complete, it's fabulous.
And with the goal of working on gettingbetter, you can't do 36 things right.
You can't work on 36 things. Right.
So one of those is,as you already said, self awareness.
Or getting some feedback from others.
And those are both useful waysto help you prioritize.
(13:55):
But your last point is,I think, really important as well,
which is, hey, which of thesesort of matter more in our organization?
Or which of them match upwith some organizational competencies,
perhapswhether they're these exact words or not.
And so I think that's a really good wayfor an individual to think about,
how do I use your your group's workor the book or whatever to,
(14:20):
to decide where to go and where to start.
What would you add to that?
We're going to talk about 2or 3 of these goals here in a second, but,
what's your advice about how should people
get started?
Yeah.
Well, one thing you could look at iswhat values have we as a company adopted?
(14:40):
Because a lot of companies, as you know,Kevin, you facilitate workshops around
identifying what is, you know,our mission, our vision and our values.
And companies often invest a lot of timeand money in crafting these values.
What do we stand for?
What's important to uswhere we often see a gap is once
(15:02):
those have gotten createdand even communicated to others,
what are we doing as an organizationto help people develop into those?
Yes, and that's where there's the gap.
And that's one of the reasonswe actually created a program
to help people learn to practice these.
So I think a first stepwhere people could start is look at
(15:24):
has our company created a set of values.
And what's interesting isI did a Google search on
what are the most common values that,
companies tend to adopt.
And every one of these characters skillsthat are in our book, in
our program, are listedin some version of all of those values.
(15:46):
So this idea of integrity,you know, of excellence,
of service, of innovation,we have the word creativity.
They're all there.
So they're it's interesting.
Values and character are closely aligned.
And so a first questionsomeone might ask is what is it?
My company is saying we stand for?
(16:09):
And is there a gap in how I am being
in relation to those values
that may let's just take you
know,most companies would not have patience,
right, as one of their stated values. Now.
It's one of them
that you wanted us to talk about,and then I'll let it get ready for us.
(16:31):
So that's under under this.
But but it kind of patience connectsvery closely to service and excellence.
If we want to provide excellent serviceto our customers, doesn't that mean
we have to be showing up, being patient
to want to understand, staying calm?
(16:54):
So, you know, they're all there.
There are aspects of a value that have
the multiple character skillsassociated with them.
So let's just stay with patientsfor a second.
I figured you just picked itbecause you looked at me
and you said, well,Kevin needs to develop some patience.
I didn't know why you picked that onespecifically when you sent me some notes.
(17:20):
If someone who's watching or listeningwould
like to work on their patience,
let's talk about some.
But let's talk about some tactical things.
What are 2 or 3 thingspeople could do today or tomorrow
to help them build or consciously
(17:40):
focus on, work on their patients?
So let's talkfirst about what is patients, right.
It's this aspect of remaining
calm and unruffled in situations.
Oftenwhere we have no control over the timing,
or it's learning to waitfor the right time before taking action.
And so think about four different
(18:02):
aspects as we think abouthow could I apply this?
Let's look at four different areas aroundpatients.
One is patients with myself.
So what could I do to exercisethat kind of patients.
Well it's listening to my self-talkwhen I'm learning something new.
Am I being impatient with myselfand judging myself
(18:25):
and being criticalbecause I'm not getting it fast enough?
Right.
So that's one area. Is noticing.
How am I
respondingto myself when I'm in this situation?
And I don't know how to do something?
Then what can I do to calm myself down
and recognize,hey, I'm taking this a step at a time.
(18:49):
So just looking at that and then see,this is where patience and awareness
are interrelatedbecause we're noticing, right?
Okay.
Another area is patience with others.
And so here is a couple of very
practical waysto exercise patience with others.
(19:09):
Noticewhen their pace is different from yours.
So if you tend to be somebodythat moves quickly, talks fast,
and you'reyou've got someone in front of you
that seems to be taking a whileto get to the point,
it's easy to start looking at your watch
or give some other non-verbalthat is saying to the person,
(19:30):
get to the pointwithout saying those words,
and it can send the messageto the other person.
You're not as importantas my time right now,
and so we can be again, be aware
that when I'm interactingwith this person,
maybe how can I set the stage with themto let them know up front,
I only have five minutes, or here'swhat would be most helpful to me
(19:55):
is if you will tell me what's the keypoint, what's the key takeaway?
And then you can fill in the details,let them know how you need
the information to be deliveredso they understand that,
that you are not reacting
necessarily to them as a person,but to their style.
Just as a simple example.
(20:16):
So also one of the thingswhen dealing with other people
is thinking aboutwhat do I appreciate about this person
so that I send the message to themas they're speaking,
you matter to me, and therefore I'mnot focused on trying to get them to hurry
up and indicate I'm,
(20:36):
you know, I'mI'm becoming very impatient with them.
You can only think aboutone of those things at a time anyway.
So just pick a different oneto think about. Yeah. Right.
And because if onceI shift my focus away from my
impatience
in that moment, nowthat's not where my where I'm at.
And so if we're trying, if we becomeself-aware of that and can shift,
(20:58):
that can be the trigger to shift.
It can be a really useful.
Yeah.
Well, and also as a parent, you know,if you have one child or
multiple kids, you might have one of themthat really triggers you,
you know, they know just what to doto get a reaction out of you.
And if you focus on I'mI'm going to be patient right now
and you know, and not react,not allow yourself to be triggered,
(21:23):
then you can respondin a more appropriate way that helps build
a relationshipand strengthen it and not undermine.
So two other areas in termsof where we get to exercise patience
every day, situationswhere we have to wait,
whether we're stuck in trafficor a long line at the grocery store,
you know, it's easyin a car to start cursing or,
(21:45):
you know, getting upset or,you know, yelling at other drivers.
But what does that doto our emotional well-being
when we respond in that kind of agitatedway versus looking
at, okay, I'm stuck in this traffic,what options do I have right now?
Maybe I could focus on my breathing.
(22:06):
Yeah, right.
And and so calming myself down
so I realize how earth shattering is itif I get there five,
ten minutes or whatever laterrelative to staying calm in the moment
so that I don't get myselfall worked up into this mess.
(22:29):
So when I get wherever it is I'm going,I'm now in this agitated state.
So what can I do while I'm waiting?
Yeah.
So, Janice, on LinkedIn sends a notea minute ago that says sometimes
in the midst of stressful situations, it'shard to maintain self-awareness.
So JaniceMeredith has just been describing to us
(22:49):
how to how to do thatin that kind of a moment.
But do you have anything elseyou would add?
More generally, because
self-awareness
is oneof this is one of the character skills,
but it's also directly connected toso many of them, because if we're unaware,
or as I often say, blissfully unaware,
we can't change anything because we know.
(23:10):
And so anything you would addjust now don't want to.
I don't want to divedeep in self-awareness
because I've got a couple thingsI want us to talk about, but would you
what would you say to helpor to give some thoughts for Janice there?
You know, that's athat's a really good point.
And I think part of itis having that conscious intention.
I'm, I'm, I'm becoming more patient
(23:33):
and have that top of mind.
And so is this an opportunity
for me to exercise patience, noticing,
if I'm starting to feel
agitated or upset or angry
or whateverthe negative feeling is in a situation
where I'm required to wait, you know,
(23:54):
and I'm and I don't have control,
this is an opportunityfor me to practice patience.
So I make a new choice.
In that moment, I choose to remain calm.
I think it's looking athow we want to be in the moment
and focusing on that and not,I don't want to be this.
(24:15):
I don't want to be that.
So it's not a negative kind of thought.
It's going through our head.
It's an affirmation about on myself being.
And I wanted to just throw in.
The fourth area of patienceis the big things.
Like if we've applied for a job,you know, or a promotion
or we're waiting to get the results backfrom a test
(24:36):
related to our health, and we don't haveany control over the timing.
There are all these
things where we have to be patient.
And a, you know, a perfect example is
I have, a family memberwho's, health is not good.
And I've been responsiblefor contacting people
(24:57):
about helpingwith different situations as well.
I don't always get the call backat the time that I would like,
you know,or I don't get the response or some.
There's a lot of unknownsin this situation where I could spend
a lot of time worrying about,oh gosh, what's going to happen?
What are we going to do instead?
(25:19):
I've been ablebecause I've been practicing patients
for a long time,I'm able to let go and say, you know what?
I trust the timing of this.
I don't have control of this.
And I trust that things or the answerwill come that it's going to work out.
And I think that's one of those thingsthat is key to any character
skill is practicing it overtime, builds the pathway in our brain
(25:44):
that allows us to do it automaticallyin those important situations.
It feels likewe could have done this entire episode.
Everybody just on patients.
Janice has another comment and I'm goingto comment on it says lack of control.
Janice says lack of controlis one of the biggest drivers of burnout.
Here's the thing.
As as Meredith just said,
being clear, you know, there's very littlewe have control over.
(26:07):
At the end of the day,we have control of ourselves.
And so the if we
if we focus on not having control,that's going to be really challenging
because there's so littlewe have control of except ourselves.
But what Meredith,
what you were saying is what we do havecontrol of is the choices that we make.
Right?
So make so in that momentwhere I'm frustrated, in that moment
(26:30):
where I'm feeling burnout, in thatmoment, whatever that is,
in that moment of impatience,
make using wisely as one of my mentors
augment, you know, would say, using wiselyyour power of choice.
Right?
Absolutely. A true, true thing.
So, there are 35 other character skills,
and I knew that you wantedto talk about patients.
(26:53):
I'm glad we did.
I want to have you talk a little bitabout one that's in here.
That I think that most of us would say,
okay, this is a good thing for mepersonally, but I want to help.
I want you to help usthink about why this one is important.
And it's in the category of relationships,
why this one is importantto us, specifically as a leader.
(27:16):
Okay.
And it is.
Forgiveness.
So let's talk about forgiveness for a.
Loved.
As it relates to us as a leader.
What would you say about that?
You know,
I want to say one thing
(27:37):
first is forgiveness is a strength.
Sometimes people think, oh,
if I forgive this person, I'm overlooking
this harm that was done to meor this hurt that I experienced.
And honestly, when you forgive someone,
the greatest beneficiary is you,
(27:59):
because you are lettinggo of the negative feelings that you're
carrying around about this person,about this situation, about the action
that they did or didn't do, or the wordsthey said or didn't say.
And so it's really for our own mental
and emotional well-beingthat we learn to forgive.
(28:21):
And it doesn't mean we have to,you know, try to block it out of our mind.
We're not saying deny it ever happened,but we're saying, let go
of those negative feelingsthat you've attached to this memory,
because this is somethingthat in order to forgive someone,
it's something that's happened.
(28:41):
Right.
So we're looking at the past, recognize
that we can't change the past. Yep.
But we can changehow we think about the past
and how we think about that person.
And which from a leadership perspective,if that person is on our team
or is in a related teamor is a peer, that's a huge piece.
(29:03):
Everybody.
And that's really where where I wantedto have a second about this, because
where you started, Meredith,I think it's so critical
that a lot of people are
unwilling to or afraid to forgivebecause it feels like a sign of weakness.
And a lot of people in their mind,in their role of leader.
Capital L positional leader,they feel like they're not supposed to.
(29:28):
I can't let them see me sweat.
I can't, I can't,
I can't show vulnerability, even thoughthere's lots of talk about vulnerability.
And so, I just think that'sa really useful thing for us to consider.
I'm guessing that everybody
realizes that Meredithand I could have a very long conversation.
And we have had them off camera,if you will.
(29:50):
And I do knowalso that the clock is moving
and there's a few more thingsI want us to do.
I'm going to give you a chance to.
Say one other thing hereabout about forgiveness.
I think it's useful
when we think about our
our willingness or unwillingnessto forgive someone else,
to first back up and look athow have I judged them,
(30:12):
how have I judged this action?
Because sometimes we take personal offense
over something, especially as a leader.
You know, if somebody didn't do whatthey were supposed to do,
and then we feel like it makes uslook bad, we can carry this resentment
towards the other person insteadof giving them the benefit of the doubt.
And what's a common thingthat is talked about now?
(30:34):
You know, assuming positive intent.
If we can do that,we're going to find ourselves needing
to forgive less often because we haven'tbeen judging them in the first place.
We've taken the timeto have the conversation about
what was going on with themand helping them understand their impact
on us or others, and I think that just
(30:58):
frees us up to not hold on to
or even have to begin with,these negative interpretations of things.
If we're talkingabout this from a leadership perspective
and as a member of your team,then chances are
you are having conversationsand you should do exactly what you said,
have a conversation about it.
But we can even think about this doingwhat I call plausible cause analysis.
(31:18):
What are the possible reasons, plausiblereasons why they did what they did?
Guess what?
Most of them have nothing to do with you.
And I remember a conversationI had with my daughter
once when she was in high schoolabout something and said, guess what?
Kills?
Remember, most of the timepeople aren't thinking about you like what
they did that you felt like was a slighthad probably
odds are didn'thave anything to do with you at all.
(31:40):
Now I know it impacted you in that moment,but how it relates
to how you feel about the other person?
Pretty tenuous connection
therethat we want to be really careful about.
I need us to move on and finish it,
but I'm going to give you a chancein a minute
to tell us a little bit moreabout how we can connect with you
and about some of the programingthat you guys have related all this.
(32:01):
But before we do that, a couple of otherthought questions for you.
Number one, Meredith,when you're not doing all this work
helping organizations and helping leaders,
what do you do for fun?
My favorite activity for the last
20 some years has been birdwatching.
(32:21):
I mean, some of you.
That are, on a video,you can see a bird over her.
Well, I can't say shoulder.
But it's a great look. Erin.
Yeah.
My husbandand I just love getting out with nature.
We're not one of these that are,you know, world travelers
trying to rack uplots of different species.
We're very contenteven sitting on our deck just watching
the birds come to the feeders.
(32:43):
But going out to parks and just observingnature in action and in particular birds.
There's so much to learn about them,their behavior.
It's it's been really fun.
And the only thing you knew forsure that I would ask you,
is what are you reading these days?
Meredith?
Well, you know, most recentlyI read your book because you thought.
(33:07):
What a beautiful answer everybody wants.
What a beautiful. It's on my show.
And, of course,this whole idea of being flexible
as a leader, I think is so important.
And I really enjoyed your take on
what it means to be flexible in that.
And of course, it ties in beautifullywith character, because we have
(33:30):
one of our character skills and our workethic is around flexibility.
Yes, we talked to you about itbeing the last one.
Like we've got to move it up the list.
It can't be number 36. I'm just teasing.
It is, it's, it is.
There it is. Number 36.
That's that's for sure.
So, other than my book, which I love that
(33:50):
you said that,anything else that you want to share here?
You know, one of my favoritesthat I go back to a lot
is The Power of Awareness by Neville
Goddard, because it's.
Well, it ties in with everythingwe've been talking about.
How do I visualize myself?
How do I visualize others, and therefore
(34:12):
what do I bring to my relationships?
What do I bring to situations?
And, he'sgot some great stories in that book around
thinking about if Ihave a negative attitude towards someone,
and I'm always seeing themas criticizing me,
(34:32):
how am I showing upwhen I interact with that person?
And he challenged this womanin one scenario.
She was complaining to him upone side and down the other
about her boss always criticizing her.
So he gave her an assignment to instead of
imagining these arguments with him,which she did on her way to work.
(34:52):
And after work, she started imagining himcomplimenting her
and giving her positive feedback.
And so she showed up differently
in in her interactions with him.
And guess what?
He started giving her compliments.
He started changingthe way he interacted with her
(35:13):
because of howshe was interacting with him.
We have so much more power than we thinkin our relationship.
Control the other person. Right?
When we look in and say,what can I do myself?
Instead of complaining about this person,what it said about how I am
being with them that might be contributingto this situation.
(35:38):
What can I do thatmight change the outcome?
It's a fabulous question. So,
what where do you wanna point people?
We will have links to those books.
We will have links to,
Meredith's book as well as DannyCoach book that we've been talking about.
Grow strong characterall in the show notes for you all.
(35:58):
But where else do you want to pointpeople?
Tell us a little bit moreabout how they can get Ahold of you.
They can learn moreabout what you're doing.
Sure. My favorite platform is LinkedIn.
I'm on the others, but I'm probablythe most active on LinkedIn,
and our website is the best placeto learn about us.
What we offerand my podcast is Grow Strong leaders.com,
(36:19):
and we have a program called GSLfor Growth Strong Leaders skill Builder,
which covers these 36 character skillsand ten communication skills.
And you know, Kevin, I know your approachto learning and developing habits.
And what we've built into this programis very congruent, where we're very much
(36:39):
aligned there where we are emphasizingthe practice, not just knowledge.
So you get a tipand then you go out and practice it,
and you come backand you reflect on how it went
and your responsesget shared with a coach.
This could be a coach you hire.
It could be a peer coach or your manager.
But someone elsewho cares about your success cares
(37:00):
that you're doing the workthat you said that you will do.
So support and accountability
and then asking for feedbackalong the way to find out how am I doing?
Are you seeing any difference?
You know, Marshall Goldsmith callsthat feed forward because also you're
wanting to know, what could I doto be even better in this particular area.
(37:20):
So we're getting that input from others.
So we found outfind out how they're experiencing us.
So we've combined all those elementsinto this program,
which is a very powerfulbehavior change process.
You can go to
grow strong leaders.comeverybody to learn more about that and to
(37:40):
and to see, find Meredith's podcastand much more.
And and pleasedo connect with her on on LinkedIn.
I know she would love that.
So, Meredith, before we go, before I saygoodbye to you, I need to ask a question
of the entire listening audiencewhenever you happen to be listening.
And that is it's a questionthat I ask every week, actually.
(38:01):
It's a question of now what?
What are you going to do now as a result?
Which ties directly to what Meredithwas just saying, like learning
a skill is one thing, practicingit is something else.
Listening to a podcast is one thing.
Taking action on what you learnedis something else.
And it's not my goal here to tell you whatyou should go do from this conversation,
(38:22):
but rather for you to urge youto find for yourself where where you are.
Where do I need togo? What were there specific
ideas yougot around patients that would help you?
Are there just the understandingof the different types of patients?
Did that help illuminatesomething for you?
And from that, what will you do?
It's not just like,oh, that was interesting.
(38:44):
Now what what will I do with thatmoving forward?
If you do that, this will be a farmore useful, investment of your time.
Meredith,thank you so much for being here.
I've been looking forward to this.
I really don't know how we got throughalmost 500 episodes before we had you on,
but we solved that now.
And it's been wonderful conversation.
(39:06):
I appreciate being here with you.
It's my pleasure.
So everybody, if you enjoyed this,make sure you tell someone else
to come listen to thisand make sure you're subscribed
wherever you're watching or listeningso you don't miss any future episodes,
because we'll be back again next week.
And so I hope you will be do
for the next episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast.
Lots of discussion about leadership
development is all around skills,and rightfully so.
But what about character?
And more specifically,what about character skills?
It's a fascinatingand valuable conversation for us to have,
which is exactly why we're having ittoday.
Welcome to another episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast,
(00:29):
where we are helping leadersgrow personally and professionally
to lead more effectivelyand make a bigger, positive difference
for their teams, organizationsand the world.
If you're listening to this podcast,you could join us in the future for live
episodeson your favorite social media platform.
Well, unless your social media platformis something that we don't or
we aren't on,like if your favorite is discord.
(00:51):
Well,then I'm not. I can't help you with that.
But but seriously,we're on a multiple platforms,
and we'd love to have you join us. Then,if you want to do that.
You can get this information sooner.
By the way,no disrespect to discord in that comment.
So you can get access to these live,
but you need to knowwhen they're going to be right.
So if you're connected to usand the podcast itself on LinkedIn
or Facebook, we make announcementsabout when those are going to be.
(01:14):
And that's the best wayfor you to find out.
So join our group, for Facebookby going to remarkable
podcast.com/facebook or our LinkedIn group
at remarkable podcast.com/linkedin.
How about that?
Today's episode is brought to youby my latest book, Flexible Leadership
Navigate Uncertaintyand Lead with Confidence.
It's timeto realize that styles can get in our way,
(01:38):
and that following our strengthsmight not always be the best approach
in a world more complex and uncertainthan ever, leaders need
a new perspective and a new set of toolsto create the great results
that their organizations and team memberswant and need.
That'swhat flexible leadership provides you.
Learn more and order your copyat remarkable podcast.com/flexible.
(02:00):
Seems logical to do that.
I hope you will do exactly thatand let me.
I can get my mouse to cooperate.
There we go.
There she is, the lovely and talentedMeredith Bell.
Let me introduce herand then we will dive in.
Meredith Bell is the co-founderand president of Grow Strong Leaders.
Her company publishesonline tools that help leaders strengthen
(02:22):
their character and communication skillsso they can build strong relationships
and inspire others to performat the highest level.
Meredith is the author of three booksand the host of the Grow
Strong Leaders podcast,which I have been a guest on.
She believes in buildingstrong relationships herself.
She and her two business partnershave worked together for 31 years,
(02:44):
and many of the customers have donebusiness with them for over 20 years.
Is a pleasure to introduce Meredith
to all of you because like I said,I've known it for a long time,
but this is the first timeshe's been on the show, so.
Meredith, welcome.
Thank you.
Kevin, I'm excited to be here.
Thank you for the invitation.
So let's see, we've gotwe've got hellos from Irving, Texas.
(03:06):
Good morning, Christina and the metroplex.
And we've got Paula from Ohio.
So we had two peoplethat have that have done as I asked.
So if others of you are here follow theirlead, tell us where you're located. So,
so, Meredith, your,
your bio or the intro that I used is,
(03:28):
is pretty straightforwardand to the point.
It doesn't really tell us a lotabout you beyond that,
I'm curious, like, you've beenin this business for a long time,
but I'm guessing when you were a ten yearold girl,
you probably didn't figure that you'd bein the business of leadership development.
So, like, how do you how do you get here?
(03:51):
Give us a little bit more
about the journey that gets Meredithto doing this great work.
And I was having this conversation.
So funny you saidwhen I was ten years old, because I know
exactly what I was doing and wanted to dowhen I was ten, which was be a teacher.
I would organize kids, you know, intoa classroom, and I would be the teacher.
(04:12):
And I ended up going into that profession,elementary school.
But you know what happened,Kevin is after a few years, I realized
I didn't carefor the repetitive lesson plans.
And so I ended up getting my mastersand I got into various school
board positions, being a supervisorand then a director of federal programs.
(04:33):
And then I realized I don't do bureaucracyvery well,
and I'm down to politics very well.
So what you're saying isyou can't find a stuff about a job
that you didn't do well,so you kept finding it.
Moving on to something else. I yeah.
And so with no business background at all,I decided to leave,
which was really strange back then,because once you had a job
(04:54):
in education, especially at the levelsI achieved, it was like
you got it made,but that wasn't fulfilling to me.
So one of the thingsI had always loved, though,
besides the teaching, was I was fascinatedaround communication skills.
I had done a lot of trainingsfor teachers, and so I decided to start
my own business and started doingtrainings for small businesses initially,
(05:19):
and then expanding to larger organizationsaround interpersonal skills.
And that led to workingwith a lot of leaders
and doing leadership developmentin a variety of areas.
But the core was always around howyou show up, how you interact with others.
Who are you being in this job as a leader?
(05:40):
And then in 91, I met Danny Coates.
He was a solo consultant doingsimilar work.
We started collaboratingand put our two businesses together
and brought in a third partner.
At that time, andwe've been working together ever since.
We made another major shift in 94to become a product company,
rather than conducting trainings and doing
(06:03):
consulting work, because we feltwe could have a greater impact.
And honestly, we were looking for a 360feedback tool at the time in the early 90s
and a good one that met our needsdidn't exist, so we decided to create one.
So we hired a developer and,
beta tested it with clients and realizedwe've got something here.
(06:24):
So we made another leap intosomething we'd never done, which was via
software company,and we've just never looked back.
So we're now into 33 yearsof working together and still
just as passionate as ever about
making a differencein the lives of leaders.
Because we know when we do that and helpthem be more effective in how they show up
(06:47):
and how they interact with others,that is going to have a ripple effect
with, everybody else in their lives,both at work and at home.
Well, that's a
great that's a great through line to wherewe're headed,
because I mentioned it in the open andit's really where we're going to focus.
We're gonna talk a lot about Danny'slatest book, Grow Strong Character,
(07:09):
which obviously you're a part of,even though you're not on the cover of.
And so I want to start with that wordcharacter, and I want to explore that word
a little bitin a couple of different ways. So
for those who are watching,I'll put it up on the screen.
But like yyou said, you you all started around
communication skillsand you still do a lot of work around
(07:30):
communication skillsas connected to this work as well.
But why character?
Why focus there?
Why is that so importantfrom your perspective?
You know, this is something
Danny and I have studied separatelyand together for more than 20 years.
This whole idea of what is characterand why is it important for leaders.
(07:52):
And so when I've done some programs,
I will ask the audience,you know, to enter into the chat,
what do you think of what comes to mindwhen you hear the phrase strong character?
And inevitably, words like integrity.
That's the word that comes up the most.
And, you know, trust and honesty.
And for us, what we realizedis it's really a composite
(08:16):
of different behavior patterns or habitsthat we develop over time.
So integrity is an aspect of character.
Trust is an aspect of character.
And so it's this idea
that and we use the term character skillsintentionally because to us
skills are behavior patternsthat can be developed.
(08:40):
And so this idea of is character fixed.
You know,do you either have it or you don't.
We all have some character or some.
One that's called a character many times,
but I don't think that's what you're goingto. Go for. Exactly.
But when we think of strong characteras a leader, we all get a sense of what
that represents, and we believethis is an area that can be developed.
(09:05):
It just as we can strengthen
communication skillslike listening or giving feedback.
So character is us is a composite
of various skillsthat can be developed over time.
I think you're saying you just said themboth, but I want to underline for everyone
you said two things that are important.
Number one is it's not a thing,it's a bunch of stuff, a composite.
(09:28):
We're going to talk aboutsome of those in a second.
And second of all,you believe that it's not fixed.
There's not stuff you were born with.
But rather a skill or a behavior.
And which means that you can learn it,develop it,
which is where we're goingto spend some of our time today.
So I love all that.
And in this composite that you're talking
(09:50):
about, isn't just integrity and trust.
You got 36 character skills.
And trust me, everybody,I am not going to ask her to list all 36.
We're not going to talk about all 36.
But, like,how did you come up with the list
and how did it become sort of the
the basis of the work?
(10:13):
You know, we we looked at all
kinds of aspects of who were being
when we looked atwhat is character really consist of.
And we decided that it made sense
to group them into three different areas.
They're all interconnected, butit's a way of getting your head around,
(10:34):
you know, a variety of skillsthat make up character.
So the first one is aroundbuilding a stronger self,
and the second one is buildingstronger relationships,
and the third isbuilding a stronger work ethic.
And so we found that there were a dozen
for each of thosethat kind of fell under that umbrella.
(10:57):
Of each of those three.
And and they're all interrelated, Kevin.
But what we did by separating them outis we looked at what are some discrete
things you could practice to get betterat this particular area.
That's an important aspect of character.
So people can self-assessor get input from others
(11:19):
if they had this list and say,when you read this list,
if I were to work on one thingto really strengthen it
and it would make a differencein my relationship
with you and my relationship with others,what's that one thing?
Yeah, that would be.
And we're going to talk abouta few of them here in a minute.
(11:40):
And haveyou give us some of that practical stuff.
One of the things that that struck meor that made me,
got me thinking is I was reading the book,
is that these all makes sense to me?
But you and you and I.
Denny, I think I know,are all from the United States,
(12:01):
where all of within reason,the same general age.
And so I guess I have a two part question.
And it relates to, worldwide or global
applicability, to what?
How did you think about that in termsof other cultures, number one, and
what feedbackhave you gotten about this list, which
(12:22):
seems like inherently
excellent and obvious to me,but I'm wondering
if I'm from another part of the world,if all of these would be the same for me.
I know that many would.
I'm just curious sort of how you howyou thought about that number one.
And number two,if you've gotten feedback around that.
Yes, we looked for
items, skillsthat would be universal no matter what,
(12:47):
what culture, what is itwe value as human beings
in this little areathat we think of as character?
So that was one of the thingsand I have gotten feedback.
It's more anecdotal, you know,
that people definitely relate to these.
And of course, even within, say,the United States or North America,
(13:10):
you have certain aspects of characteror even within a given company
that are valued highly,
by folks and really emphasized as being,
I won't say more important than others,but given greater emphasis over time.
Which I think is a really important point,because, you know,
there are 36 and in the.
(13:35):
With the goal
of being complete, it's fabulous.
And with the goal of working on gettingbetter, you can't do 36 things right.
You can't work on 36 things. Right.
So one of those is,as you already said, self awareness.
Or getting some feedback from others.
And those are both useful waysto help you prioritize.
(13:55):
But your last point is,I think, really important as well,
which is, hey, which of thesesort of matter more in our organization?
Or which of them match upwith some organizational competencies,
perhapswhether they're these exact words or not.
And so I think that's a really good wayfor an individual to think about,
how do I use your your group's workor the book or whatever to,
(14:20):
to decide where to go and where to start.
What would you add to that?
We're going to talk about 2or 3 of these goals here in a second, but,
what's your advice about how should people
get started?
Yeah.
Well, one thing you could look at iswhat values have we as a company adopted?
(14:40):
Because a lot of companies, as you know,Kevin, you facilitate workshops around
identifying what is, you know,our mission, our vision and our values.
And companies often invest a lot of timeand money in crafting these values.
What do we stand for?
What's important to uswhere we often see a gap is once
(15:02):
those have gotten createdand even communicated to others,
what are we doing as an organizationto help people develop into those?
Yes, and that's where there's the gap.
And that's one of the reasonswe actually created a program
to help people learn to practice these.
So I think a first stepwhere people could start is look at
(15:24):
has our company created a set of values.
And what's interesting isI did a Google search on
what are the most common values that,
companies tend to adopt.
And every one of these characters skillsthat are in our book, in
our program, are listedin some version of all of those values.
(15:46):
So this idea of integrity,you know, of excellence,
of service, of innovation,we have the word creativity.
They're all there.
So they're it's interesting.
Values and character are closely aligned.
And so a first questionsomeone might ask is what is it?
My company is saying we stand for?
(16:09):
And is there a gap in how I am being
in relation to those values
that may let's just take you
know,most companies would not have patience,
right, as one of their stated values. Now.
It's one of them
that you wanted us to talk about,and then I'll let it get ready for us.
(16:31):
So that's under under this.
But but it kind of patience connectsvery closely to service and excellence.
If we want to provide excellent serviceto our customers, doesn't that mean
we have to be showing up, being patient
to want to understand, staying calm?
(16:54):
So, you know, they're all there.
There are aspects of a value that have
the multiple character skillsassociated with them.
So let's just stay with patientsfor a second.
I figured you just picked itbecause you looked at me
and you said, well,Kevin needs to develop some patience.
I didn't know why you picked that onespecifically when you sent me some notes.
(17:20):
If someone who's watching or listeningwould
like to work on their patience,
let's talk about some.
But let's talk about some tactical things.
What are 2 or 3 thingspeople could do today or tomorrow
to help them build or consciously
(17:40):
focus on, work on their patients?
So let's talkfirst about what is patients, right.
It's this aspect of remaining
calm and unruffled in situations.
Oftenwhere we have no control over the timing,
or it's learning to waitfor the right time before taking action.
And so think about four different
(18:02):
aspects as we think abouthow could I apply this?
Let's look at four different areas aroundpatients.
One is patients with myself.
So what could I do to exercisethat kind of patients.
Well it's listening to my self-talkwhen I'm learning something new.
Am I being impatient with myselfand judging myself
(18:25):
and being criticalbecause I'm not getting it fast enough?
Right.
So that's one area. Is noticing.
How am I
respondingto myself when I'm in this situation?
And I don't know how to do something?
Then what can I do to calm myself down
and recognize,hey, I'm taking this a step at a time.
(18:49):
So just looking at that and then see,this is where patience and awareness
are interrelatedbecause we're noticing, right?
Okay.
Another area is patience with others.
And so here is a couple of very
practical waysto exercise patience with others.
(19:09):
Noticewhen their pace is different from yours.
So if you tend to be somebodythat moves quickly, talks fast,
and you'reyou've got someone in front of you
that seems to be taking a whileto get to the point,
it's easy to start looking at your watch
or give some other non-verbalthat is saying to the person,
(19:30):
get to the pointwithout saying those words,
and it can send the messageto the other person.
You're not as importantas my time right now,
and so we can be again, be aware
that when I'm interactingwith this person,
maybe how can I set the stage with themto let them know up front,
I only have five minutes, or here'swhat would be most helpful to me
(19:55):
is if you will tell me what's the keypoint, what's the key takeaway?
And then you can fill in the details,let them know how you need
the information to be deliveredso they understand that,
that you are not reacting
necessarily to them as a person,but to their style.
Just as a simple example.
(20:16):
So also one of the thingswhen dealing with other people
is thinking aboutwhat do I appreciate about this person
so that I send the message to themas they're speaking,
you matter to me, and therefore I'mnot focused on trying to get them to hurry
up and indicate I'm,
(20:36):
you know, I'mI'm becoming very impatient with them.
You can only think aboutone of those things at a time anyway.
So just pick a different oneto think about. Yeah. Right.
And because if onceI shift my focus away from my
impatience
in that moment, nowthat's not where my where I'm at.
And so if we're trying, if we becomeself-aware of that and can shift,
(20:58):
that can be the trigger to shift.
It can be a really useful.
Yeah.
Well, and also as a parent, you know,if you have one child or
multiple kids, you might have one of themthat really triggers you,
you know, they know just what to doto get a reaction out of you.
And if you focus on I'mI'm going to be patient right now
and you know, and not react,not allow yourself to be triggered,
(21:23):
then you can respondin a more appropriate way that helps build
a relationshipand strengthen it and not undermine.
So two other areas in termsof where we get to exercise patience
every day, situationswhere we have to wait,
whether we're stuck in trafficor a long line at the grocery store,
you know, it's easyin a car to start cursing or,
(21:45):
you know, getting upset or,you know, yelling at other drivers.
But what does that doto our emotional well-being
when we respond in that kind of agitatedway versus looking
at, okay, I'm stuck in this traffic,what options do I have right now?
Maybe I could focus on my breathing.
(22:06):
Yeah, right.
And and so calming myself down
so I realize how earth shattering is itif I get there five,
ten minutes or whatever laterrelative to staying calm in the moment
so that I don't get myselfall worked up into this mess.
(22:29):
So when I get wherever it is I'm going,I'm now in this agitated state.
So what can I do while I'm waiting?
Yeah.
So, Janice, on LinkedIn sends a notea minute ago that says sometimes
in the midst of stressful situations, it'shard to maintain self-awareness.
So JaniceMeredith has just been describing to us
(22:49):
how to how to do thatin that kind of a moment.
But do you have anything elseyou would add?
More generally, because
self-awareness
is oneof this is one of the character skills,
but it's also directly connected toso many of them, because if we're unaware,
or as I often say, blissfully unaware,
we can't change anything because we know.
(23:10):
And so anything you would addjust now don't want to.
I don't want to divedeep in self-awareness
because I've got a couple thingsI want us to talk about, but would you
what would you say to helpor to give some thoughts for Janice there?
You know, that's athat's a really good point.
And I think part of itis having that conscious intention.
I'm, I'm, I'm becoming more patient
(23:33):
and have that top of mind.
And so is this an opportunity
for me to exercise patience, noticing,
if I'm starting to feel
agitated or upset or angry
or whateverthe negative feeling is in a situation
where I'm required to wait, you know,
(23:54):
and I'm and I don't have control,
this is an opportunityfor me to practice patience.
So I make a new choice.
In that moment, I choose to remain calm.
I think it's looking athow we want to be in the moment
and focusing on that and not,I don't want to be this.
(24:15):
I don't want to be that.
So it's not a negative kind of thought.
It's going through our head.
It's an affirmation about on myself being.
And I wanted to just throw in.
The fourth area of patienceis the big things.
Like if we've applied for a job,you know, or a promotion
or we're waiting to get the results backfrom a test
(24:36):
related to our health, and we don't haveany control over the timing.
There are all these
things where we have to be patient.
And a, you know, a perfect example is
I have, a family memberwho's, health is not good.
And I've been responsiblefor contacting people
(24:57):
about helpingwith different situations as well.
I don't always get the call backat the time that I would like,
you know,or I don't get the response or some.
There's a lot of unknownsin this situation where I could spend
a lot of time worrying about,oh gosh, what's going to happen?
What are we going to do instead?
(25:19):
I've been ablebecause I've been practicing patients
for a long time,I'm able to let go and say, you know what?
I trust the timing of this.
I don't have control of this.
And I trust that things or the answerwill come that it's going to work out.
And I think that's one of those thingsthat is key to any character
skill is practicing it overtime, builds the pathway in our brain
(25:44):
that allows us to do it automaticallyin those important situations.
It feels likewe could have done this entire episode.
Everybody just on patients.
Janice has another comment and I'm goingto comment on it says lack of control.
Janice says lack of controlis one of the biggest drivers of burnout.
Here's the thing.
As as Meredith just said,
being clear, you know, there's very littlewe have control over.
(26:07):
At the end of the day,we have control of ourselves.
And so the if we
if we focus on not having control,that's going to be really challenging
because there's so littlewe have control of except ourselves.
But what Meredith,
what you were saying is what we do havecontrol of is the choices that we make.
Right?
So make so in that momentwhere I'm frustrated, in that moment
(26:30):
where I'm feeling burnout, in thatmoment, whatever that is,
in that moment of impatience,
make using wisely as one of my mentors
augment, you know, would say, using wiselyyour power of choice.
Right?
Absolutely. A true, true thing.
So, there are 35 other character skills,
and I knew that you wantedto talk about patients.
(26:53):
I'm glad we did.
I want to have you talk a little bitabout one that's in here.
That I think that most of us would say,
okay, this is a good thing for mepersonally, but I want to help.
I want you to help usthink about why this one is important.
And it's in the category of relationships,
why this one is importantto us, specifically as a leader.
(27:16):
Okay.
And it is.
Forgiveness.
So let's talk about forgiveness for a.
Loved.
As it relates to us as a leader.
What would you say about that?
You know,
I want to say one thing
(27:37):
first is forgiveness is a strength.
Sometimes people think, oh,
if I forgive this person, I'm overlooking
this harm that was done to meor this hurt that I experienced.
And honestly, when you forgive someone,
the greatest beneficiary is you,
(27:59):
because you are lettinggo of the negative feelings that you're
carrying around about this person,about this situation, about the action
that they did or didn't do, or the wordsthey said or didn't say.
And so it's really for our own mental
and emotional well-beingthat we learn to forgive.
(28:21):
And it doesn't mean we have to,you know, try to block it out of our mind.
We're not saying deny it ever happened,but we're saying, let go
of those negative feelingsthat you've attached to this memory,
because this is somethingthat in order to forgive someone,
it's something that's happened.
(28:41):
Right.
So we're looking at the past, recognize
that we can't change the past. Yep.
But we can changehow we think about the past
and how we think about that person.
And which from a leadership perspective,if that person is on our team
or is in a related teamor is a peer, that's a huge piece.
(29:03):
Everybody.
And that's really where where I wantedto have a second about this, because
where you started, Meredith,I think it's so critical
that a lot of people are
unwilling to or afraid to forgivebecause it feels like a sign of weakness.
And a lot of people in their mind,in their role of leader.
Capital L positional leader,they feel like they're not supposed to.
(29:28):
I can't let them see me sweat.
I can't, I can't,
I can't show vulnerability, even thoughthere's lots of talk about vulnerability.
And so, I just think that'sa really useful thing for us to consider.
I'm guessing that everybody
realizes that Meredithand I could have a very long conversation.
And we have had them off camera,if you will.
(29:50):
And I do knowalso that the clock is moving
and there's a few more thingsI want us to do.
I'm going to give you a chance to.
Say one other thing hereabout about forgiveness.
I think it's useful
when we think about our
our willingness or unwillingnessto forgive someone else,
to first back up and look athow have I judged them,
(30:12):
how have I judged this action?
Because sometimes we take personal offense
over something, especially as a leader.
You know, if somebody didn't do whatthey were supposed to do,
and then we feel like it makes uslook bad, we can carry this resentment
towards the other person insteadof giving them the benefit of the doubt.
And what's a common thingthat is talked about now?
(30:34):
You know, assuming positive intent.
If we can do that,we're going to find ourselves needing
to forgive less often because we haven'tbeen judging them in the first place.
We've taken the timeto have the conversation about
what was going on with themand helping them understand their impact
on us or others, and I think that just
(30:58):
frees us up to not hold on to
or even have to begin with,these negative interpretations of things.
If we're talkingabout this from a leadership perspective
and as a member of your team,then chances are
you are having conversationsand you should do exactly what you said,
have a conversation about it.
But we can even think about this doingwhat I call plausible cause analysis.
(31:18):
What are the possible reasons, plausiblereasons why they did what they did?
Guess what?
Most of them have nothing to do with you.
And I remember a conversationI had with my daughter
once when she was in high schoolabout something and said, guess what?
Kills?
Remember, most of the timepeople aren't thinking about you like what
they did that you felt like was a slighthad probably
odds are didn'thave anything to do with you at all.
(31:40):
Now I know it impacted you in that moment,but how it relates
to how you feel about the other person?
Pretty tenuous connection
therethat we want to be really careful about.
I need us to move on and finish it,
but I'm going to give you a chancein a minute
to tell us a little bit moreabout how we can connect with you
and about some of the programingthat you guys have related all this.
(32:01):
But before we do that, a couple of otherthought questions for you.
Number one, Meredith,when you're not doing all this work
helping organizations and helping leaders,
what do you do for fun?
My favorite activity for the last
20 some years has been birdwatching.
(32:21):
I mean, some of you.
That are, on a video,you can see a bird over her.
Well, I can't say shoulder.
But it's a great look. Erin.
Yeah.
My husbandand I just love getting out with nature.
We're not one of these that are,you know, world travelers
trying to rack uplots of different species.
We're very contenteven sitting on our deck just watching
the birds come to the feeders.
(32:43):
But going out to parks and just observingnature in action and in particular birds.
There's so much to learn about them,their behavior.
It's it's been really fun.
And the only thing you knew forsure that I would ask you,
is what are you reading these days?
Meredith?
Well, you know, most recentlyI read your book because you thought.
(33:07):
What a beautiful answer everybody wants.
What a beautiful. It's on my show.
And, of course,this whole idea of being flexible
as a leader, I think is so important.
And I really enjoyed your take on
what it means to be flexible in that.
And of course, it ties in beautifullywith character, because we have
(33:30):
one of our character skills and our workethic is around flexibility.
Yes, we talked to you about itbeing the last one.
Like we've got to move it up the list.
It can't be number 36. I'm just teasing.
It is, it's, it is.
There it is. Number 36.
That's that's for sure.
So, other than my book, which I love that
(33:50):
you said that,anything else that you want to share here?
You know, one of my favoritesthat I go back to a lot
is The Power of Awareness by Neville
Goddard, because it's.
Well, it ties in with everythingwe've been talking about.
How do I visualize myself?
How do I visualize others, and therefore
(34:12):
what do I bring to my relationships?
What do I bring to situations?
And, he'sgot some great stories in that book around
thinking about if Ihave a negative attitude towards someone,
and I'm always seeing themas criticizing me,
(34:32):
how am I showing upwhen I interact with that person?
And he challenged this womanin one scenario.
She was complaining to him upone side and down the other
about her boss always criticizing her.
So he gave her an assignment to instead of
imagining these arguments with him,which she did on her way to work.
(34:52):
And after work, she started imagining himcomplimenting her
and giving her positive feedback.
And so she showed up differently
in in her interactions with him.
And guess what?
He started giving her compliments.
He started changingthe way he interacted with her
(35:13):
because of howshe was interacting with him.
We have so much more power than we thinkin our relationship.
Control the other person. Right?
When we look in and say,what can I do myself?
Instead of complaining about this person,what it said about how I am
being with them that might be contributingto this situation.
(35:38):
What can I do thatmight change the outcome?
It's a fabulous question. So,
what where do you wanna point people?
We will have links to those books.
We will have links to,
Meredith's book as well as DannyCoach book that we've been talking about.
Grow strong characterall in the show notes for you all.
(35:58):
But where else do you want to pointpeople?
Tell us a little bit moreabout how they can get Ahold of you.
They can learn moreabout what you're doing.
Sure. My favorite platform is LinkedIn.
I'm on the others, but I'm probablythe most active on LinkedIn,
and our website is the best placeto learn about us.
What we offerand my podcast is Grow Strong leaders.com,
(36:19):
and we have a program called GSLfor Growth Strong Leaders skill Builder,
which covers these 36 character skillsand ten communication skills.
And you know, Kevin, I know your approachto learning and developing habits.
And what we've built into this programis very congruent, where we're very much
(36:39):
aligned there where we are emphasizingthe practice, not just knowledge.
So you get a tipand then you go out and practice it,
and you come backand you reflect on how it went
and your responsesget shared with a coach.
This could be a coach you hire.
It could be a peer coach or your manager.
But someone elsewho cares about your success cares
(37:00):
that you're doing the workthat you said that you will do.
So support and accountability
and then asking for feedbackalong the way to find out how am I doing?
Are you seeing any difference?
You know, Marshall Goldsmith callsthat feed forward because also you're
wanting to know, what could I doto be even better in this particular area.
(37:20):
So we're getting that input from others.
So we found outfind out how they're experiencing us.
So we've combined all those elementsinto this program,
which is a very powerfulbehavior change process.
You can go to
grow strong leaders.comeverybody to learn more about that and to
(37:40):
and to see, find Meredith's podcastand much more.
And and pleasedo connect with her on on LinkedIn.
I know she would love that.
So, Meredith, before we go, before I saygoodbye to you, I need to ask a question
of the entire listening audiencewhenever you happen to be listening.
And that is it's a questionthat I ask every week, actually.
(38:01):
It's a question of now what?
What are you going to do now as a result?
Which ties directly to what Meredithwas just saying, like learning
a skill is one thing, practicingit is something else.
Listening to a podcast is one thing.
Taking action on what you learnedis something else.
And it's not my goal here to tell you whatyou should go do from this conversation,
(38:22):
but rather for you to urge youto find for yourself where where you are.
Where do I need togo? What were there specific
ideas yougot around patients that would help you?
Are there just the understandingof the different types of patients?
Did that help illuminatesomething for you?
And from that, what will you do?
It's not just like,oh, that was interesting.
(38:44):
Now what what will I do with thatmoving forward?
If you do that, this will be a farmore useful, investment of your time.
Meredith,thank you so much for being here.
I've been looking forward to this.
I really don't know how we got throughalmost 500 episodes before we had you on,
but we solved that now.
And it's been wonderful conversation.
(39:06):
I appreciate being here with you.
It's my pleasure.
So everybody, if you enjoyed this,make sure you tell someone else
to come listen to thisand make sure you're subscribed
wherever you're watching or listeningso you don't miss any future episodes,
because we'll be back again next week.
And so I hope you will be do
for the next episodeof the Remarkable Leadership Podcast.
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