November 25, 2024 • 34 mins
In this episode of the Restaurant Technology Guys podcast, Jeremy is joined by Deric Rosenbaum, President and CTO of Groucho's Deli, an 83-year-old deli chain based in the Southeast U.S. Deric shares his journey from commercial construction to leading Groucho's Deli alongside his business partner Bruce Miller. The conversation delves into Groucho's unique hybrid model between QSR and Fast Casual, their unrelenting focus on quality ingredients, and their innovative use of technology to enhance customer and staff experiences. Deric also discusses Groucho's approach to sustainability, adapting business models during COVID-19, and leveraging tools like Ovation and Marquis for customer feedback and reputation management. The episode wraps up with Deric sharing his personal and family favorites from Groucho's menu, emphasizing the brand’s commitment to both tradition and modern technology.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:09 Meet Deric Rosenbaum: President and CTO of Groucho's Deli
00:44 The Legacy of Groucho's Deli
01:27 Deric's Journey with Groucho's
03:25 Groucho's Unique Dining Experience
05:16 Signature Dishes and Menu Highlights
08:23 Commitment to Quality and Sustainability
11:02 Adapting Through Technology
15:11 Customer Experience and Feedback
29:21 Favorite Menu Items and Personal Stories
33:20 Conclusion and Contact Information
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
This is the RestaurantTechnology Guys podcast.
Helping you run your restaurantbetter.
Jeremy Julian (00:11):
Welcome back to the restaurant technology guys
podcast.
I thank everyone out there forjoining us.
As I say, each and every time Iknow you guys got lots of
choices.
So thanks for hanging with ustoday.
Today.
I am joined by somebody that, Ivery much admire in the
restaurant industry, restauranttech industry is a, for me, one
of those people that I love to,to bounce ideas off of, I want
to let him talk about himselfhere for just a second, but
(00:33):
Deric, Deric is, he works for abrand called Groucho's Deli out
of the Southeast.
But Deric, why don't youintroduce yourself a little bit
to our listeners, who is Deric,what does he get to do for a
living?
And, then we can talk a littlebit about what Groucho's is and
why it's such a special place inso many people's hearts that,
that experience it on a weeklybasis.
Deric Rosenbaum (00:48):
Thanks for having me on, Jeremy.
It's great to be here.
so I am Deric Rosenbaum.
I am currently the president andresident CTO of Groucho's Deli.
Groucho's is an 83 year oldbrand based out of Columbia,
South Carolina, founded byHarold Groucho Miller, who moved
here from Philadelphia, smoked acigar, had a mustache, a brass
sense of humor.
(01:08):
And people from Columbiaimmediately started associating
him with Groucho's March fromthe vaudeville era and the name
stuck and so in 1942 werebranded from Miller's
Delicatessen to Groucho'sDelicatessen.
And here we are 83 years later.
My partner and CEO of Groucho'sis Bruce Miller, so he is a
third generation family member.
(01:28):
His son is now actually afranchisee in the low country of
South Carolina.
So everything's still prettymuch in the family.
They call me the adoptedbrother, but technically not
blood.
my story with Groucho's, so as Isaid, Bruce is my business
partner.
And he and I were fishingbuddies, hanging out buddies,
having beer buddies, all thethings.
And, my previous, my firstcareer was in commercial
(01:51):
construction, so I used to buildrestaurants, built catering
halls, and several other typesof buildings, and he's I know
restaurants, buildings, let'sget together and start a
franchise, and so I opened upfranchise 1, 2, 3, 4, got up, we
got it up to 8, I was still atthat point just a I did both for
a little while and quicklyrealized, I gotta pick a career,
so I stuck, went with therestaurant business and I've
(02:14):
learned every facet of it from,the accounting to inventory to
management to staffing, labor,all the things, customer service
relations, and, we got up toabout 10 units, we opened up our
own central commissary, we hadour own trucks, delivery,
learned that side of thebusiness, I wanted to
understand, I don't believe inhalf measures.
they're all in or I'm all out.
So I wanted to learn every partof our business.
(02:35):
So we ran that for many yearsand then flip that over to a
national large broad linedistributor.
We now don't really, we nowcontrol it, but we don't touch
it.
fast forward to where we aretoday.
We are 30 unit chain again basedon where in the Carolinas and
Georgia.
we are a very controlled growthchain.
We're not looking to open 100units a year.
(02:55):
This is not who we are.
And, I would venture to saywe're probably one of the more
tech advanced chains for, Agroup of our size.
Jeremy Julian (03:04):
agree with that.
Deric Rosenbaum (03:05):
technology is my, wheelhouse is where I live,
but I also bring the world ofthe reality of operations and
how does all of this worktogether in a macro sphere and
how does it impact customerexperience, user experience,
staff experience, and so that'sthe perspective I take when most
of our, Vetting processes andundertakings.
So in short, that's who I amtoday.
(03:26):
I'm also a girl dad of two girlsand happily married for 24
years.
Jeremy Julian (03:31):
Yeah.
hopefully the wife doesn't hearthat you talked about crouches
before, before her when shecomes to, to post in this.
so on that Deric, talk to me alittle bit, like for those that
hadn't been, and again, you andI, Have become friends, outside
of kind of some of the businessstuff.
But, I got, I personally got thechance to experience your brand
in the last year.
and it was very different than Iexpected it to be.
(03:52):
So for those that have not been,had the privilege of
experiencing a Groucho's, youtalk about it being a deli,
which, which, to me, oftentimesconjures up a New York deli in
New York city, white and blacktile and, huge sandwiches and
pictures of celebrities on thewall, which there's a little bit
of that element, but there'salso a lot of other things that
you guys do that are differentwalk, a non Groucho's, customer
(04:13):
that's not ever been therethrough what does an experience
look like inside of your guys'sbrain?
Cause it was a very uniqueexperience and I loved it quite
frankly, outside of the factthat the food was fantastic,
which we'll talk about that in acouple of minutes.
Deric Rosenbaum (04:23):
we're a hybrid model between QSR and Fast
Casual is how I would call ustoday.
for the first six generations,the first six decades of
Groucho's, we were a verytraditional counter service
deli, meat and cheese counter.
Traditional Jewish fare,people's diets and the way they
eat have completely changedsince, no one's eating cream
(04:43):
cheese and olive sandwiches,especially in the southeast or
corned beef tongue anymore.
But don't get me wrong.
I love corned beef tongue, butso that evolved and my partner
in the late 80s went to his dadand his mom at the time and
said, we're going to, we'regoing to get rid of all this
retail stuff.
And, yeah.
Make it like a true restaurant.
So we brought in, we, went fromcounter service to table
service.
So when I say we are a hybrid,we have full table service in
(05:07):
the restaurant with the centralpoint of payment after service.
but, prior or, Since thepandemic, our off prem is now
almost 60 percent of ourrevenue.
So things are changing, but Ithink that's not certainly not
unique to Groucho's.
I think that's the industry as awhole and definitely within the
QSR and fast casual segments.
Jeremy Julian (05:27):
talk a little bit about the food.
So going away from thetraditional deli fair, that's in
a cold case and you're, I need ahalf pound of this and a quarter
pound of that and all of that,or even sitting down at the
table and having a full tableservice experience.
What is the, what is your guysprimary items that people are
buying and again, I crave that,45 sauce.
I'm telling you, since I had itthe first time between that and
(05:49):
the sandwich, like I, I thinkabout it, I have dreams about
it.
It's scary when I think abouthow good it is.
And I know, I know, some friendsthat are in the, that live down
there are just in love with thefood, but again, for those that
aren't, is it all sandwiches,only sandwiches, talk us through
the menu and what is, what arethe signature items?
And why do people come?
Deric Rosenbaum (06:07):
Yeah.
we certainly still havetraditional deli fare.
We have corned beef, pastrami,salami, turkey, roast beef, all
the things you can get on aregular basis.
traditional deli sandwich.
We're also known for our clubs,bacon and turkey clubs, BLTs.
we have a very large saladselection.
our salads are actually, and acouple of our salads are on the
top of our p mix as Well, butwe're known for our signature
open faced, hot open faced delisandwiches.
(06:29):
I liken us to the meat andpotatoes of the deli business.
we like to focus on meat andcheese.
If you want alfalfa sprouts andour avocado spread.
We're probably not the place foryou.
we like simple, clean, wholemuscle ingredients, and most of
it is, like, all of ourdressings.
You referred to our 45 sauce,but our ranch is equally as
popular.
(06:49):
we make all of that from scratchevery day in the restaurants.
we bake our own cookies.
They're 100 percent real butter.
we focus on simple, clean, andquality.
if you bring the right bread,the right cheeses, and the right
condiments, then, like Peoplewill tell you, they're fanatic,
we're fanatical about ourpickles.
pickle is part of the deliexperience.
Yes, some people hate pickles,but nobody wants a limp pickle,
(07:11):
let's just be honest.
Jeremy Julian (07:12):
and I'm certainly one of those pickle people.
I was like, ah, I need morepickles in my day.
And for me, selfishly, I usedto, when I lived in Southern
California, I was up in LA,anytime I'd go to LA, it was a
Jewish deli.
And I promise you every time I'min New York city, I hit up the
Jewish delis, which is why, whyI'm still trying to figure out
how to get a Groucho's here in,in
Deric Rosenbaum (07:28):
I still very much have my hands in the
purchasing and merchandisingworld of Groucho's.
And with all the crazy thingsthat have happened over the last
two decades, we still servefirst cut brisket and corned
beef and pastrami, we, wehaven't.
Traded down on our quality.
If anything, it's gone up.
And we have vetted most of ourvendor partnerships.
Many of them are multigenerational companies, Kaiser
(07:49):
Pickles, their third generation,Pantanozzi Bakers out of
Baltimore up and up in the massarea, we believe in people that
believe that provide productsand believe in quality the way
we do.
Jeremy Julian (08:03):
Yeah.
and it shows cause, again,having been there.
I can't get the, get the thoughtof the 45 sauce out of my mind
since I've been there, Deric,you had talked about, and and
the other piece that I wouldtell anybody that hasn't been
any chance you get, I was just,I had just had some friends that
were heading down your way.
Ultimately, they weren't able togo because of the storm.
We're recording this right.
and right after the storm, theywere heading that way and they
were going to go check out youroriginal store in Columbia
(08:24):
because he was going to run the,the iron man in, in Augusta, and
he said he was going to take atrip over there.
Obviously with the storm, itdidn't end up happening.
But, but with that, the otherthing that's always so amazing
to me is how affordable you guyscan make things.
And I think that's just thetestament to your commitment to
partnership, your commitment tofinding the right, the right way
to go to market, which I guess,where does that come from?
Because I, I think it's going toreally come into the technology
(08:47):
side of our conversation fortoday.
Deric is, I've gotten a chanceover the last, 12, 18 months to
get to know who you are.
And I can tell, I can tell ourlisteners that Deric truly
believes in deep levels ofpartnership to understand what
is the value that they're goingto bring and how are we going to
partner together to help eachother succeed and win?
Where does that come from?
Does that come from yourupbringing?
Is that from the brand?
(09:08):
Because it really ultimately ishow you guys are able to
continue to sustain such highquality and make it at an
affordable price that you guyscan be on college campuses and
still blow the doors off, saleswise with people that Income
levels aren't nearly what, whatthey might be in, suburbia or
whatever else.
Deric Rosenbaum (09:23):
I think it comes from our legacy.
ultimately, and I have theprivilege of upholding this
legacy.
I have a commitment to HaroldGroucho Miller, his son.
My business partner and to thefour generations of customers
that eat with us.
So I sure we could go out andfind some rolled turkey product
and save 2 a pound and, make alittle more money.
(09:46):
But what's the longevity inthat?
I like to sleep at night and, Ijust, like I said earlier, I
just, we don't believe in halfmeasures.
take sustainability, forexample, sustainability is not
an overnight thing.
It's a journey.
It's an absolute journey andsustainability has many
different definitions.
It's not just products, it'speople, it's culture, it's all
(10:07):
these things.
And as we've transitioned overthe decades and have become
like, COVID was the catalyst forus to moving out of most of our,
styrofoam product and we stillvery much a disposable
organization, but everything isfully compostable now from our
cutlery, which is made out ofagave byproduct.
Our to go boxes are made out ofsugar cane from sugar byproducts
(10:30):
out of Florida.
so it's a calculated measureand, Is it always the cheapest?
Absolutely not.
it's what's going to provide thelong term sustainability and how
are we adapting to both theneeds of our guests and our
franchisees and our employees.
(10:50):
And, we always like to say weadapt, we don't change.
Jeremy Julian (10:53):
Love that.
Love that thought.
And again, when you talk topeople that grew up with
grouchos, it's rabid fan basefrom that perspective.
Again, I told you that story of,I was in, in Greenville and I
had two or three people thatgrew up on grouchos and they're
like, Oh, you're going there.
Can I come with you?
Kind of thing.
Cause that was, they just, theylove it.
I'm going to pivot here for justa second there.
Cause I, again, I know youalluded to it.
(11:14):
You guys had to change yourbusiness quite a bit through
COVID.
And with that change came theneed to, adopt different.
Business models or enhanceddifferent business models.
You said it adapt to thedifferent business models.
Consumers were no longer cominginto the stores.
They were needing to get up whatI guess, talk to me, talk me
through where it was at prior toCOVID and where you're at now
(11:35):
and where do you see the futureas far as dining off prem and
why that's such a criticalcomponent to have it be a good,
a guest experience, be a good,staff experience and the like.
Deric Rosenbaum (11:45):
Yeah, I think prior to COVID these Changes
we're seeing were already wellunderway.
They were just, exacerbated by1020x, whatever you want to call
it.
prior to, let's see, somewherearound 2010, 2011, 2012, I had
this whole concept of atechnology, franchise
technology.
(12:06):
construct in a box.
And, we tried to work with avertical integrated company at
that time.
And so we would have the butwe're still on legacy point of
sale, obviously.
So we had legacy point of sale.
We had loyalty built in.
We had gift card built in.
And then in 2014, we startedworking with the third party
provider, building out our ownonline ordering.
So the white labeled onlineordering an application solution
(12:28):
and launched that in 2015.
And it was growingincrementally.
But It was maybe five or 6percent of total revenue, which
at the time was great.
Right?
it had curbside functionalitybuilt into it.
We did not use it.
So the days they literally shutour dining rooms down.
We toggle the switch.
We had curbside functionality.
We operationalize that over thenext couple of weeks.
(12:49):
And, you can't make becauseyou're not just training your
team members, but you're alsotraining your customer base.
And, everyone's still in thewild west.
No one knew what the hell wasgoing on.
It was like, Walking dead goingdown the streets.
And, so We've definitely beentech advanced and prior, just
before COVID, in December of 19,we went to our first cloud based
solution and integrated many ofthe partners that we were with
(13:10):
prior and then brought on somenew partners because we had to
get out of, we had to break thatvertical structure that we were
in and go more horizontal, whichis how I still lean today and
believe and, I'm very much anopen and bi directional API kind
of guy.
And.
I believe in best of fit for mybrand and my brand's objectives
and where we're trying to betoday, tomorrow, and in 20
(13:32):
years.
I don't, I'm not of the schoolof thought that a vertical
solution can provide you all ofthat at the brand centric level
that you want it to be.
It makes a lot of sense for alot of people.
It just doesn't make sense forus.
and to your point, I think a lotof operators, myself included,
thought that once we got back tonormal, third party was going to
(13:55):
slow down and, we all scrambledto board as quickly as we could
and bring in middlewareintegrations and operationalize
that and remove the frictionwhen and where we could.
we still do, right?
But, it's, That has not sloweddown at all.
And the way that consumers arechoosing to interact with brands
is very different now.
And I think the correction thatwe're seeing in the marketplace
(14:19):
is reflective of that.
And the stores that have madethe investments in the
infrastructure, not just intechnology, but in systems, and
SOPs, and training.
All of these things, becauselabor is just a whole different
layer of this.
That's a whole different issuethat we're dealing with in the
industry now.
I think they're in a much betterposition, to optimize the omni
(14:42):
channel ordering experience.
I'm, and we, in my office, weare definitely of the opinion,
we just want to be where ourcustomers are.
We are channel agnostic 100%.
Whether that's DoorDash, Uber,Native, third party, EasyCater,
Carrier, or Pigeon, I, we don'tcare.
just want to put our food inyour mouths.
Jeremy Julian (15:00):
and with that, Deric, I think it's, I think
it's a critical, causephilosophically you've talked
about doing, best for you guysproducts.
you want to be able to be wherethe guests are.
And I talk about this often is,people will ask, what is the
future of restaurants?
It's it depends on what yourbrand wants to be for you guys.
You want to be able to servethem in all of those venues.
Some people are like, you knowwhat, I don't care.
I just want to back in thedining room.
And if my sales are less becauseI just want to back in the
(15:21):
dining room.
That's fine.
But I also would say, and I knowyou and I've had some offline
conversations about this, thatthe idea of creating the best
guest experience, regardless ofhow they interact with you is
very critical.
Walk me through why that, whyyou think that's important.
You and I both have teenage kidsthat.
Are going to be the nextgeneration of buying.
they interact with the brandvery differently than you and I
(15:43):
might.
And so I think it's, I thinkit's interesting to get your
thought process as to why it'sso critical to meet the people
where they are and be able togive them that guest experience
the way that they need it
Deric Rosenbaum (15:53):
like you said, my children are 15 and 23.
And, one is 100 percentdigitally native and one is like
a cusp, right on the cusp.
But, basically digital native.
And, to them and their friendsand their peer groups, ordering
online is completely secondnature.
They think nothing of it.
They don't associate anythingwith it.
The cost of convenience at all,like at all.
(16:16):
It's not a consideration tothem.
So thinking of third party is,something that you have to do, I
think, is the wrong approach,especially early on in covid.
A lot of people are like, onceit leaves my door, it's not my
problem.
That's not true.
Absolutely is not true.
it can be frustrating becauseyou're relying on a third party
vendor, basically, at thispoint, to get your product from
(16:38):
A to B on that last miledelivery.
And, how is that being executed?
But, there are things you cando.
there's, services you can use toengage your customers.
we text all of our customers 20minutes after they pick up with
just basically five emojis and,asking, how is your experience?
and I, we view it as aninterventional tool.
So if we messed up, it gives usan opportunity to bring that
(17:01):
corrective reaction and show ourcustomers that we care.
we are very much a customercentric organization and we
respond to every piece offeedback, whether it's direct,
whether it's on Google, whetherit's on Yelp.
I'm sorry, 98.
6%.
If you bring crazy to the table,we're probably going to step
away from the table.
Jeremy Julian (17:21):
as most should.
Deric Rosenbaum (17:22):
Yeah.
I think what it has definitelyproven to me is customers just
want to be heard.
I read an interesting articlethe other day.
I don't even know where I readit.
Probably on LinkedIn.
But somebody was like, you cango to McDonald's a thousand
times and they can mess up yourBig Mac and you won't complain.
You just expect it.
But you go to your local deliand they leave the deli mustard
off your pastrami.
(17:42):
It's like the end of the worldand they're never coming back
and they're going to go 12times.
Help 12 people and blast you onFacebook, right?
unfortunately, social media hasprovided a platform to
everyone's voice, good, bad, orindifferent.
you have to be there andprovide.
Not only the service recoverywhen necessary, but also the
reputation management to controlthe perception, your digital
(18:06):
relevance perception.
And then also to play intoGoogle's algorithms, right?
Jeremy Julian (18:10):
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Yeah.
and talk.
(19:11):
Talk more tactically, Deric,cause I know, but our listeners
don't, you've got multiple toolsto manage, and again, we talk
about ovation being one Zach'sbeen on the show before we talk
about Bush.
They, I know that they help youwith some of the complaints and
on those kinds of things.
What are those tools that youput in place that you find?
And again, we were just.
A couple of weeks ago, hangingout at the FS tech show.
(19:33):
And I know that there's a lot ofpeople that you were talking to
that hadn't implemented theirbrands that are five times the
size of you guys that hadn'timplemented a lot of these
solutions and really are hurtingbecause of it.
And I think it's a testament towhat you guys invest in is
making sure that customer isgetting what they deserve and,
getting the product that theywant, but what are some of those
tactical tools and how do yousee them making a difference?
Again, you can start withovation and then go through some
(19:55):
of the other pieces, because Ithink you guys have such a
fantastic.
Tech stack that does allow youguys to pivot, does allow you
guys to change, does allow youguys to engage with the guests
where they are.
If they're in the dining room,it's one conversation.
If they're online, it's anotherconversation.
If they're from third party,it's a different conversation,
but you guys do, you spend somuch time to make sure the
guests are getting what theyneed.
(20:16):
Talk me through some of thetactical tools that you guys use
that help you get there.
Deric Rosenbaum (20:20):
first of all, you have to ask yourself, why am
I doing this?
And then you need to understandthe service recovery paradox.
that's been here long before anyof this technology suite
existed.
it's been proven time
Jeremy Julian (20:30):
room, it was a heck of a lot easier because you
could walk up, you could seethat somebody was disappointed.
They only ate, A third of theirsandwich.
And you can go, hello, Mr.
You know, Deric, what helped meunderstand what was it not made,
right?
Oh yeah, you screwed it up, butI got to go.
Let me give you a comp card tocome back or whatever it is that
your guest recovery is, sorry,I'll let you finish.
But it was so much easier whenthey were 90%, 95 percent of the
guests were coming into thestore now that
Deric Rosenbaum (20:52):
again.
Jeremy Julian (20:52):
everywhere else, it makes it so much harder.
Deric Rosenbaum (20:55):
Yeah.
it is basically a digital tabletouch.
is what it is.
we just happen to be able to doit at scale with technology.
it's harder for an independentoperator because you're, A,
dealing with everything going onin your store, and then you're
going to sit down at night anddo all this service recovery.
And, it's overwhelming, right?
I think that's where theadvantage of, a franchise or a
larger corporate entity is.
can aid because we can focus onthose components, team members
(21:18):
on our team can focus on thosecomponents and then operations
can address the operationalinsights or the sentiment
analysis that we're getting fromthese tools.
So to, ultimately, so Yes.
we use Ovation for directfeedback, or interventional
feedback as I like to call it,through our own native
solutions, through order online.
through in store receiptmessaging, QR codes.
(21:40):
The vast majority comes, thevast majority of our feedback
from Ovation comes from ournative digital ordering
solution, because it's fullyautomated.
It's a text.
It's five emojis.
It's quick.
And it starts a process and, wecan provide that service through
that tool via texting and thenoffers within the tool if we
(22:01):
need them.
But, by and large, most peoplejust want to be heard.
they just want to beacknowledged.
And, if we really messed up,we're going to take care of you.
We're going to refund yourmoney.
If you were missing anincremental sale item, like a
brownie wasn't in your order,that's a quick, easy fix.
We can refund it right then,right there.
Provide some loyalty points toyou and engage you back and you
(22:21):
can see how the service recoveryparadox works.
We do the same thing withMarquis on our third party side.
Not third party, but onlineside, so Yelp, TripAdvisor,
Google.
they have what they call an AIHIreview response.
it's using artificialintelligence and human
intelligence, and I also layerin hospitality intelligence,
(22:42):
because You need that to knowhow to engage customers.
we have automated most of thosetypes of reviews.
we still see them.
For a long time we approved themwhile we were getting
comfortable with the AI HIcombination and learning that.
And then like still the onestar, the one and two star
reviews come directly to us.
we can intervene more quickly.
(23:02):
knock on wood, they're limited.
Uh, if you take just those twocomponents together, Ovation is
also what I call a five starreview generator.
So if you leave us the bestemoji, we're going to push you
to Google or to Yelp orTripAdvisor or wherever it is.
it should probably be pushing toGoogle or Yelp because, Those
are the big boys.
Google owns 80 percent of thereview space.
(23:24):
we've bumped our score ratingsup within Google, which also
increases your relevance withinGoogle.
where do you place when you typesandwiches near me?
you want to be in that topthree, right?
Top five for sure.
Definitely not on the secondpage.
all of these, there's no onething.
it's, it's recency, it'srelevance, and It's velocity of
(23:45):
reviews.
All of these things contributeto your digital relevance.
And then customers, if a newcustomer is shopping for
whatever.
I want Jeremy's salad bowl, Youneed to come up first.
And when you do mess up, theywant to see that you actually
engage with that customer andhave addressed that.
And there's nothing wrong withthat being in a public forum.
in and of itself, hospitality ishuman derived and humans are
(24:07):
fallible.
Period.
End of story.
We are not robots.
We are not perfect.
We make mistakes.
People have bad days.
Just customers have bad days.
We have bad days.
I think it's showing ultimatelythat your care and, we see it
time and time again.
people will come in real hot ona piece of feedback and we just,
you can take it down reallyquick by just listening.
it's the same with a humanconversation, right?
(24:29):
we use voucher for third party.
so Uber, DoorDash, Grubhub,feedback stuff, it's a different
customer base for sure.
Absolutely it is.
I think rightfully Expectationsare a little different when you
order from a third partyprovider.
when we order at home, myexpectations certainly aren't
the same as when I go into therestaurant.
granted, I'm certainly biased,but, it's, these tools allow us
(24:53):
to do this reputation managementservice recovery at scale.
With a limited amount of people,
Jeremy Julian (24:59):
and
Deric Rosenbaum (25:00):
if you had a team doing that.
Jeremy Julian (25:02):
this is back to your point of doing the right
thing.
I find so few people don't dothese things and then they get,
they, they turn around sixmonths from now and go, why are
my sales down?
Because they haven't taken careof the guests.
The world has changed and movedon and without implementing some
system, and that system could beto your point at scale.
(25:22):
You need, you need more than,more than just somebody sitting
or looking at the reviews andresponding to them, manually,
you've gotten to a place whereyou're automating much of that,
but I think all too often peoplego, Oh, you know what?
We're great.
We don't need any of this.
Let me just keep doing ourthing.
And at the end of the day.
You do have some crazies, butmore and more of the digital
native consumers continue tocome into your brands.
(25:43):
And if you're not meeting themwhere they need to be and
hearing their feedback, Rev wason the show recently.
It hasn't posted yet, but he hadtalked about, he had talked
about his hamburger chain in NewYork city and somebody had
missed something, back to yourhumans are fallible.
And he told the story ofsomebody using table salts
instead of kosher salt to saltfries.
And their reviews showed thatthere was a problem that they
(26:05):
kept getting the salty fly fryreview You probably have heard
this story But for ourlisteners, that's a piece of
critical feedback that sayssomething's wrong at that store
that you've got to fix Not onlydo you need to recover that gas,
but there may be an operationalproblem.
There may be an ingredientproblem There may be a some kind
of problem internal to the brandand without hearing and seeing
(26:26):
that it's almost impossibleEspecially when you get beyond
one or two stores
Deric Rosenbaum (26:30):
Yeah.
it's hard to identify that withlike anecdotal knowledge.
if you take these tools, andthey all have sentiment analysis
and measurement capabilitiesbuilt within them.
it's taking, All the direct,Ovation, for example, takes all
your direct feedback, all youronline feedback, and puts that
into one sentiment tool.
And then we measure across ninemajor categories, and each one
(26:52):
has I don't know, three or foursubcategories.
speed, accuracy, service,cleanliness, food, whatever.
I don't know all off the top ofmy head.
And then it heat maps the entirechain by store across those
things.
every Monday morning, myoperations team goes straight to
that heat map.
We look at a word cloud analysisto identify, okay, is there some
(27:15):
sort of systemic problem hereacross the chain, or is this
isolated to a certain unit, sothen we can benchmark a unit to
the chain.
And then we can dig in andfigure out, okay, Something's
wrong with XYZ.
is it an employee?
Is it a product issue?
Is it a storage issue?
Is it a rotation issue?
(27:36):
Whatever that is.
And then we also do the samething with metrics across,
online ordering and downtimeand, There's lots of ways to
measure all of these things, andso it just makes my operations
team so much, their jobs so mucheasier.
And it allows them to identifythe real issues where they
should be spending their time,instead of just random routine
(27:58):
inspections.
we still do those, but, it'smuch easier to make a targeted
strike now with this data thatis, with the results that are
derived From actual data.
Jeremy Julian (28:08):
the customers.
and we've talked about it.
I've talked about it on the showquite a bit.
It's it's hard enough to get thecustomer in once you need to get
them to become a regular.
And if you can't get them tobecome a regular, it makes it
really challenging.
And if they are a regular, andthen you mess them up and you
can't recover it.
It's a huge deal.
and ultimately I'm sure you guyshave some kind of statistics
about what lifetime values arefor customers, but it's pretty
(28:29):
high in a high frequency, highfrequency type brand like
yourself, where you could have aGroucho's deli sandwich twice a
week.
If if you were so inclined andlosing that customer potentially
could be really hard for one ofthe stores.
if you
Deric Rosenbaum (28:40):
Yeah,
Jeremy Julian (28:40):
it,
Deric Rosenbaum (28:41):
for us, we focus.
soundly on retention, like we donew guest acquisition, but we
focus 10 times the effort intoguest retention and the results
are proven data driven.
we are a partner with Vicki andthere are CDP tools that we
measure everything six ways fromSunday.
you can't prove what you can'tmeasure, right?
(29:02):
With BICI, we have, and thecumulative effect, and I'll show
you this graph when we'reoffline, because I have actually
measured it, and, with all theincremental things that we've
done to improve over the lastfive years, and again,
everything's incremental.
You can't do it, at one time.
You have to start with the bigrocks and work your way down.
currently we were rocking like a46 percent guest habituality
(29:24):
rate, which is unheard of.
in our industry.
Jeremy Julian (29:28):
What's your name?
Starbucks, maybe or DunkinDonuts, right?
which is a very differentexperience.
It's not food.
I'm gonna flip things away fromtech here for just a second
there because we're gettingclose to the end.
Talk to me about, you, you wouldshare with me.
I'd love for you to share withour listeners.
what's your favorite three itemsor, what's your family?
to eat when they go intogrouchos because, there's some,
(29:48):
you guys have some prettyspecial products and having
looked through the menu, hadsomebody not walked me through
it, it was one of those thingsthat I'm like, Oh, I'll take one
of each because at the end ofthe day, they all look so good,
give our listeners that, thatmight be going to a grouchos for
the first time in the next sixmonths, what are the one or two
items that you say, you knowwhat, If you've never been,
these are the two things thatyou need to have.
And maybe you can even tell thestory of, the story that you
(30:08):
told me when we were at FS techof that, that guest that, that
said, I have not, I can't orderanything different.
Deric Rosenbaum (30:13):
We'll start with that sandwich because it's
hands down our most popular.
It's 20 plus percent of ourrevenue comes from this one
sandwich.
so it's an STP dipper.
our dipper sandwiches wereinvented during the 60s, during
the space race.
So they represent like a spacecapsule getting dunked into the
45 sauce.
But the STP is roast beef,turkey, bacon bits, Swiss cheese
served hot and open faced with achip pickle and our signature
(30:36):
formula for the 45 sauce, which.
I can, closest thing I can likenit to is a Russian Thousand
Island dressing, but a thousandtimes better.
And of course, Groucho Deliaward winning sweet tea, which I
mean, we won best sweet tea inthe state of South Carolina.
That is hard to do, bro.
Jeremy Julian (30:50):
Yes.
Deric Rosenbaum (30:51):
so I asked a good friend of mine who I went
to school with here at theUniversity of South Carolina,
and I see him in Groucho's offand on, and I was down there a
couple years ago, and he wasdown there with his wife and
kids, and I walked up to him,and his nickname is Toontz, and
I'm like, Toontz.
He always eats an STP.
Every time he comes in.
And I said, if you eat somethingdifferent today, I will buy your
entire family's lunch.
(31:11):
He stopped and thought about itlike really hard.
And after 10 seconds, he looksat me and goes, I can't do it.
And I said, why man?
He goes, because if I walk outof here and get hit by a city
bus, my last meal from Groucho'sDeli cannot have not been an
STP.
And I'm like, can't argue yourlogic.
Jeremy Julian (31:28):
I love that story.
You told me that story when wewere most recently together and
it made me, and again, the firstthing I had, because I had a
couple of rabid fans that, whenI was down in green Greenville,
they, they were like, dude, You,you try nothing other than the
STP with 45 sauce.
Get extra 45 sauce if you can,because that's where things are
at.
You want to go a second time,third time, fourth time, go try
something else.
But, but the s st p is whereit's at.
(31:49):
But what's your guys' family'sorder?
what are the girls, what do thegirls eat?
And what's their, what's theirgo-to, what's your most popular
salad?
What's your most popularsandwich beyond the STP?
Maybe
Deric Rosenbaum (31:58):
my go to is our Reuben variation, which we make
with pastrami, but we have asecond variation of That which
is the slaw Reuben.
we take our house made mustardbased coleslaw and substitute
the kraut with mustard cheeseand German mustard on
pumpernickel.
So good.
First cut smoked brisket.
We use saddle brothers out ofBaltimore.
It's it's an amazing product.
(32:20):
Our go to, our My Wife SaladBowl is hands down our favorite.
there's actually a story I'll,if you do come here, I'll show
you on the wall.
our second floor is like amuseum.
Um, I, my, the second generationof Groucho's kind of brought the
first, lunch salads to theColumbia area.
the My Wife Salad Bowl is justthis enormous salad with turkey,
ham.
(32:41):
Tomatoes, cucumber, cubedcheese, bacon, shredded cheddar.
it's just everything's in thesalad.
So it hands down.
And then in, 2018, we revampedour healthy lifestyles menu
because it was previously madein the 80s by a different
generation when low fat was thecraze.
But everybody means everyone nowknows That low fat means high
(33:01):
sugar, right?
we revamped that menu and, In2018 and we brought in this new,
fire braised chicken breast andit is magical.
And so our Arcadian chickensalad is delicious.
So it comes in a bed of organicgreens with feta cheese, Greek
olives.
Fire braised chicken breast,your choice of dressing.
(33:23):
It's to die for.
Jeremy Julian (33:24):
sounds amazing.
And you just got to top it offwith the best sweet tea in South
Carolina.
Is that the deal?
Deric Rosenbaum (33:30):
That's it.
Jeremy Julian (33:30):
Love it.
Love it.
Deric, how can people stay intouch with you?
Can I get connected?
I know you're pretty active onLinkedIn, but how would you say
they should connect with thebrand, how to, keep up with what
you guys are doing and, or quitefrankly, if they're, if they're
interested in potentially evenopening up a store in their
neighborhood, is that somethingthat, that you might consider
talking to them about?
Deric Rosenbaum (33:48):
grouchos.
com is always probably the bestplace to go.
And if you scroll down to thefooter, you can find lots of
information about franchisingand some of our philosophies and
the things we do and ourcampaigns and programs, you're
going to get past, obviouslyordering is going to be at the
top of the page, right?
But, if you're looking for me,Outside of LinkedIn, you're not
going to find me.
but you can certainly submit aninquiry on our website and it
(34:08):
will get to where it needs togo.
email logic is pretty simple.
Jeremy Julian (34:11):
Love that.
Deric, thank you for coming on.
I know, Like I said to youbefore we hit the record button,
I, respect all that you do andgenuinely, I think you're an
amazing operator, amazingtechnologist, you get it.
And it's a privilege to hearwhat you get to do.
you know what you get to do fora living and how you think about
the brand.
And, again, selfishly, they needto put some Grouchos out by me
cause, it was so damn good.
to our listeners, guys, thankyou guys for hanging out.
(34:32):
Like we said at the beginning,make it a great day.
Thanks for listening to theRestaurant Technology Guys
podcast.
Visit www.
RestaurantTechnologyGuys.
com for tips, industry insights,and more to help you run your
restaurant better.
This is the RestaurantTechnology Guys podcast.
Helping you run your restaurantbetter.
Jeremy Julian (00:11):
Welcome back to the restaurant technology guys
podcast.
I thank everyone out there forjoining us.
As I say, each and every time Iknow you guys got lots of
choices.
So thanks for hanging with ustoday.
Today.
I am joined by somebody that, Ivery much admire in the
restaurant industry, restauranttech industry is a, for me, one
of those people that I love to,to bounce ideas off of, I want
to let him talk about himselfhere for just a second, but
(00:33):
Deric, Deric is, he works for abrand called Groucho's Deli out
of the Southeast.
But Deric, why don't youintroduce yourself a little bit
to our listeners, who is Deric,what does he get to do for a
living?
And, then we can talk a littlebit about what Groucho's is and
why it's such a special place inso many people's hearts that,
that experience it on a weeklybasis.
Deric Rosenbaum (00:48):
Thanks for having me on, Jeremy.
It's great to be here.
so I am Deric Rosenbaum.
I am currently the president andresident CTO of Groucho's Deli.
Groucho's is an 83 year oldbrand based out of Columbia,
South Carolina, founded byHarold Groucho Miller, who moved
here from Philadelphia, smoked acigar, had a mustache, a brass
sense of humor.
(01:08):
And people from Columbiaimmediately started associating
him with Groucho's March fromthe vaudeville era and the name
stuck and so in 1942 werebranded from Miller's
Delicatessen to Groucho'sDelicatessen.
And here we are 83 years later.
My partner and CEO of Groucho'sis Bruce Miller, so he is a
third generation family member.
(01:28):
His son is now actually afranchisee in the low country of
South Carolina.
So everything's still prettymuch in the family.
They call me the adoptedbrother, but technically not
blood.
my story with Groucho's, so as Isaid, Bruce is my business
partner.
And he and I were fishingbuddies, hanging out buddies,
having beer buddies, all thethings.
And, my previous, my firstcareer was in commercial
(01:51):
construction, so I used to buildrestaurants, built catering
halls, and several other typesof buildings, and he's I know
restaurants, buildings, let'sget together and start a
franchise, and so I opened upfranchise 1, 2, 3, 4, got up, we
got it up to 8, I was still atthat point just a I did both for
a little while and quicklyrealized, I gotta pick a career,
so I stuck, went with therestaurant business and I've
(02:14):
learned every facet of it from,the accounting to inventory to
management to staffing, labor,all the things, customer service
relations, and, we got up toabout 10 units, we opened up our
own central commissary, we hadour own trucks, delivery,
learned that side of thebusiness, I wanted to
understand, I don't believe inhalf measures.
they're all in or I'm all out.
So I wanted to learn every partof our business.
(02:35):
So we ran that for many yearsand then flip that over to a
national large broad linedistributor.
We now don't really, we nowcontrol it, but we don't touch
it.
fast forward to where we aretoday.
We are 30 unit chain again basedon where in the Carolinas and
Georgia.
we are a very controlled growthchain.
We're not looking to open 100units a year.
(02:55):
This is not who we are.
And, I would venture to saywe're probably one of the more
tech advanced chains for, Agroup of our size.
Jeremy Julian (03:04):
agree with that.
Deric Rosenbaum (03:05):
technology is my, wheelhouse is where I live,
but I also bring the world ofthe reality of operations and
how does all of this worktogether in a macro sphere and
how does it impact customerexperience, user experience,
staff experience, and so that'sthe perspective I take when most
of our, Vetting processes andundertakings.
So in short, that's who I amtoday.
(03:26):
I'm also a girl dad of two girlsand happily married for 24
years.
Jeremy Julian (03:31):
Yeah.
hopefully the wife doesn't hearthat you talked about crouches
before, before her when shecomes to, to post in this.
so on that Deric, talk to me alittle bit, like for those that
hadn't been, and again, you andI, Have become friends, outside
of kind of some of the businessstuff.
But, I got, I personally got thechance to experience your brand
in the last year.
and it was very different than Iexpected it to be.
(03:52):
So for those that have not been,had the privilege of
experiencing a Groucho's, youtalk about it being a deli,
which, which, to me, oftentimesconjures up a New York deli in
New York city, white and blacktile and, huge sandwiches and
pictures of celebrities on thewall, which there's a little bit
of that element, but there'salso a lot of other things that
you guys do that are differentwalk, a non Groucho's, customer
(04:13):
that's not ever been therethrough what does an experience
look like inside of your guys'sbrain?
Cause it was a very uniqueexperience and I loved it quite
frankly, outside of the factthat the food was fantastic,
which we'll talk about that in acouple of minutes.
Deric Rosenbaum (04:23):
we're a hybrid model between QSR and Fast
Casual is how I would call ustoday.
for the first six generations,the first six decades of
Groucho's, we were a verytraditional counter service
deli, meat and cheese counter.
Traditional Jewish fare,people's diets and the way they
eat have completely changedsince, no one's eating cream
(04:43):
cheese and olive sandwiches,especially in the southeast or
corned beef tongue anymore.
But don't get me wrong.
I love corned beef tongue, butso that evolved and my partner
in the late 80s went to his dadand his mom at the time and
said, we're going to, we'regoing to get rid of all this
retail stuff.
And, yeah.
Make it like a true restaurant.
So we brought in, we, went fromcounter service to table
service.
So when I say we are a hybrid,we have full table service in
(05:07):
the restaurant with the centralpoint of payment after service.
but, prior or, Since thepandemic, our off prem is now
almost 60 percent of ourrevenue.
So things are changing, but Ithink that's not certainly not
unique to Groucho's.
I think that's the industry as awhole and definitely within the
QSR and fast casual segments.
Jeremy Julian (05:27):
talk a little bit about the food.
So going away from thetraditional deli fair, that's in
a cold case and you're, I need ahalf pound of this and a quarter
pound of that and all of that,or even sitting down at the
table and having a full tableservice experience.
What is the, what is your guysprimary items that people are
buying and again, I crave that,45 sauce.
I'm telling you, since I had itthe first time between that and
(05:49):
the sandwich, like I, I thinkabout it, I have dreams about
it.
It's scary when I think abouthow good it is.
And I know, I know, some friendsthat are in the, that live down
there are just in love with thefood, but again, for those that
aren't, is it all sandwiches,only sandwiches, talk us through
the menu and what is, what arethe signature items?
And why do people come?
Deric Rosenbaum (06:07):
Yeah.
we certainly still havetraditional deli fare.
We have corned beef, pastrami,salami, turkey, roast beef, all
the things you can get on aregular basis.
traditional deli sandwich.
We're also known for our clubs,bacon and turkey clubs, BLTs.
we have a very large saladselection.
our salads are actually, and acouple of our salads are on the
top of our p mix as Well, butwe're known for our signature
open faced, hot open faced delisandwiches.
(06:29):
I liken us to the meat andpotatoes of the deli business.
we like to focus on meat andcheese.
If you want alfalfa sprouts andour avocado spread.
We're probably not the place foryou.
we like simple, clean, wholemuscle ingredients, and most of
it is, like, all of ourdressings.
You referred to our 45 sauce,but our ranch is equally as
popular.
(06:49):
we make all of that from scratchevery day in the restaurants.
we bake our own cookies.
They're 100 percent real butter.
we focus on simple, clean, andquality.
if you bring the right bread,the right cheeses, and the right
condiments, then, like Peoplewill tell you, they're fanatic,
we're fanatical about ourpickles.
pickle is part of the deliexperience.
Yes, some people hate pickles,but nobody wants a limp pickle,
(07:11):
let's just be honest.
Jeremy Julian (07:12):
and I'm certainly one of those pickle people.
I was like, ah, I need morepickles in my day.
And for me, selfishly, I usedto, when I lived in Southern
California, I was up in LA,anytime I'd go to LA, it was a
Jewish deli.
And I promise you every time I'min New York city, I hit up the
Jewish delis, which is why, whyI'm still trying to figure out
how to get a Groucho's here in,in
Deric Rosenbaum (07:28):
I still very much have my hands in the
purchasing and merchandisingworld of Groucho's.
And with all the crazy thingsthat have happened over the last
two decades, we still servefirst cut brisket and corned
beef and pastrami, we, wehaven't.
Traded down on our quality.
If anything, it's gone up.
And we have vetted most of ourvendor partnerships.
Many of them are multigenerational companies, Kaiser
(07:49):
Pickles, their third generation,Pantanozzi Bakers out of
Baltimore up and up in the massarea, we believe in people that
believe that provide productsand believe in quality the way
we do.
Jeremy Julian (08:03):
Yeah.
and it shows cause, again,having been there.
I can't get the, get the thoughtof the 45 sauce out of my mind
since I've been there, Deric,you had talked about, and and
the other piece that I wouldtell anybody that hasn't been
any chance you get, I was just,I had just had some friends that
were heading down your way.
Ultimately, they weren't able togo because of the storm.
We're recording this right.
and right after the storm, theywere heading that way and they
were going to go check out youroriginal store in Columbia
(08:24):
because he was going to run the,the iron man in, in Augusta, and
he said he was going to take atrip over there.
Obviously with the storm, itdidn't end up happening.
But, but with that, the otherthing that's always so amazing
to me is how affordable you guyscan make things.
And I think that's just thetestament to your commitment to
partnership, your commitment tofinding the right, the right way
to go to market, which I guess,where does that come from?
Because I, I think it's going toreally come into the technology
(08:47):
side of our conversation fortoday.
Deric is, I've gotten a chanceover the last, 12, 18 months to
get to know who you are.
And I can tell, I can tell ourlisteners that Deric truly
believes in deep levels ofpartnership to understand what
is the value that they're goingto bring and how are we going to
partner together to help eachother succeed and win?
Where does that come from?
Does that come from yourupbringing?
Is that from the brand?
(09:08):
Because it really ultimately ishow you guys are able to
continue to sustain such highquality and make it at an
affordable price that you guyscan be on college campuses and
still blow the doors off, saleswise with people that Income
levels aren't nearly what, whatthey might be in, suburbia or
whatever else.
Deric Rosenbaum (09:23):
I think it comes from our legacy.
ultimately, and I have theprivilege of upholding this
legacy.
I have a commitment to HaroldGroucho Miller, his son.
My business partner and to thefour generations of customers
that eat with us.
So I sure we could go out andfind some rolled turkey product
and save 2 a pound and, make alittle more money.
(09:46):
But what's the longevity inthat?
I like to sleep at night and, Ijust, like I said earlier, I
just, we don't believe in halfmeasures.
take sustainability, forexample, sustainability is not
an overnight thing.
It's a journey.
It's an absolute journey andsustainability has many
different definitions.
It's not just products, it'speople, it's culture, it's all
(10:07):
these things.
And as we've transitioned overthe decades and have become
like, COVID was the catalyst forus to moving out of most of our,
styrofoam product and we stillvery much a disposable
organization, but everything isfully compostable now from our
cutlery, which is made out ofagave byproduct.
Our to go boxes are made out ofsugar cane from sugar byproducts
(10:30):
out of Florida.
so it's a calculated measureand, Is it always the cheapest?
Absolutely not.
it's what's going to provide thelong term sustainability and how
are we adapting to both theneeds of our guests and our
franchisees and our employees.
(10:50):
And, we always like to say weadapt, we don't change.
Jeremy Julian (10:53):
Love that.
Love that thought.
And again, when you talk topeople that grew up with
grouchos, it's rabid fan basefrom that perspective.
Again, I told you that story of,I was in, in Greenville and I
had two or three people thatgrew up on grouchos and they're
like, Oh, you're going there.
Can I come with you?
Kind of thing.
Cause that was, they just, theylove it.
I'm going to pivot here for justa second there.
Cause I, again, I know youalluded to it.
(11:14):
You guys had to change yourbusiness quite a bit through
COVID.
And with that change came theneed to, adopt different.
Business models or enhanceddifferent business models.
You said it adapt to thedifferent business models.
Consumers were no longer cominginto the stores.
They were needing to get up whatI guess, talk to me, talk me
through where it was at prior toCOVID and where you're at now
(11:35):
and where do you see the futureas far as dining off prem and
why that's such a criticalcomponent to have it be a good,
a guest experience, be a good,staff experience and the like.
Deric Rosenbaum (11:45):
Yeah, I think prior to COVID these Changes
we're seeing were already wellunderway.
They were just, exacerbated by1020x, whatever you want to call
it.
prior to, let's see, somewherearound 2010, 2011, 2012, I had
this whole concept of atechnology, franchise
technology.
(12:06):
construct in a box.
And, we tried to work with avertical integrated company at
that time.
And so we would have the butwe're still on legacy point of
sale, obviously.
So we had legacy point of sale.
We had loyalty built in.
We had gift card built in.
And then in 2014, we startedworking with the third party
provider, building out our ownonline ordering.
So the white labeled onlineordering an application solution
(12:28):
and launched that in 2015.
And it was growingincrementally.
But It was maybe five or 6percent of total revenue, which
at the time was great.
Right?
it had curbside functionalitybuilt into it.
We did not use it.
So the days they literally shutour dining rooms down.
We toggle the switch.
We had curbside functionality.
We operationalize that over thenext couple of weeks.
(12:49):
And, you can't make becauseyou're not just training your
team members, but you're alsotraining your customer base.
And, everyone's still in thewild west.
No one knew what the hell wasgoing on.
It was like, Walking dead goingdown the streets.
And, so We've definitely beentech advanced and prior, just
before COVID, in December of 19,we went to our first cloud based
solution and integrated many ofthe partners that we were with
(13:10):
prior and then brought on somenew partners because we had to
get out of, we had to break thatvertical structure that we were
in and go more horizontal, whichis how I still lean today and
believe and, I'm very much anopen and bi directional API kind
of guy.
And.
I believe in best of fit for mybrand and my brand's objectives
and where we're trying to betoday, tomorrow, and in 20
(13:32):
years.
I don't, I'm not of the schoolof thought that a vertical
solution can provide you all ofthat at the brand centric level
that you want it to be.
It makes a lot of sense for alot of people.
It just doesn't make sense forus.
and to your point, I think a lotof operators, myself included,
thought that once we got back tonormal, third party was going to
(13:55):
slow down and, we all scrambledto board as quickly as we could
and bring in middlewareintegrations and operationalize
that and remove the frictionwhen and where we could.
we still do, right?
But, it's, That has not sloweddown at all.
And the way that consumers arechoosing to interact with brands
is very different now.
And I think the correction thatwe're seeing in the marketplace
(14:19):
is reflective of that.
And the stores that have madethe investments in the
infrastructure, not just intechnology, but in systems, and
SOPs, and training.
All of these things, becauselabor is just a whole different
layer of this.
That's a whole different issuethat we're dealing with in the
industry now.
I think they're in a much betterposition, to optimize the omni
(14:42):
channel ordering experience.
I'm, and we, in my office, weare definitely of the opinion,
we just want to be where ourcustomers are.
We are channel agnostic 100%.
Whether that's DoorDash, Uber,Native, third party, EasyCater,
Carrier, or Pigeon, I, we don'tcare.
just want to put our food inyour mouths.
Jeremy Julian (15:00):
and with that, Deric, I think it's, I think
it's a critical, causephilosophically you've talked
about doing, best for you guysproducts.
you want to be able to be wherethe guests are.
And I talk about this often is,people will ask, what is the
future of restaurants?
It's it depends on what yourbrand wants to be for you guys.
You want to be able to servethem in all of those venues.
Some people are like, you knowwhat, I don't care.
I just want to back in thedining room.
And if my sales are less becauseI just want to back in the
(15:21):
dining room.
That's fine.
But I also would say, and I knowyou and I've had some offline
conversations about this, thatthe idea of creating the best
guest experience, regardless ofhow they interact with you is
very critical.
Walk me through why that, whyyou think that's important.
You and I both have teenage kidsthat.
Are going to be the nextgeneration of buying.
they interact with the brandvery differently than you and I
(15:43):
might.
And so I think it's, I thinkit's interesting to get your
thought process as to why it'sso critical to meet the people
where they are and be able togive them that guest experience
the way that they need it
Deric Rosenbaum (15:53):
like you said, my children are 15 and 23.
And, one is 100 percentdigitally native and one is like
a cusp, right on the cusp.
But, basically digital native.
And, to them and their friendsand their peer groups, ordering
online is completely secondnature.
They think nothing of it.
They don't associate anythingwith it.
The cost of convenience at all,like at all.
(16:16):
It's not a consideration tothem.
So thinking of third party is,something that you have to do, I
think, is the wrong approach,especially early on in covid.
A lot of people are like, onceit leaves my door, it's not my
problem.
That's not true.
Absolutely is not true.
it can be frustrating becauseyou're relying on a third party
vendor, basically, at thispoint, to get your product from
(16:38):
A to B on that last miledelivery.
And, how is that being executed?
But, there are things you cando.
there's, services you can use toengage your customers.
we text all of our customers 20minutes after they pick up with
just basically five emojis and,asking, how is your experience?
and I, we view it as aninterventional tool.
So if we messed up, it gives usan opportunity to bring that
(17:01):
corrective reaction and show ourcustomers that we care.
we are very much a customercentric organization and we
respond to every piece offeedback, whether it's direct,
whether it's on Google, whetherit's on Yelp.
I'm sorry, 98.
6%.
If you bring crazy to the table,we're probably going to step
away from the table.
Jeremy Julian (17:21):
as most should.
Deric Rosenbaum (17:22):
Yeah.
I think what it has definitelyproven to me is customers just
want to be heard.
I read an interesting articlethe other day.
I don't even know where I readit.
Probably on LinkedIn.
But somebody was like, you cango to McDonald's a thousand
times and they can mess up yourBig Mac and you won't complain.
You just expect it.
But you go to your local deliand they leave the deli mustard
off your pastrami.
(17:42):
It's like the end of the worldand they're never coming back
and they're going to go 12times.
Help 12 people and blast you onFacebook, right?
unfortunately, social media hasprovided a platform to
everyone's voice, good, bad, orindifferent.
you have to be there andprovide.
Not only the service recoverywhen necessary, but also the
reputation management to controlthe perception, your digital
(18:06):
relevance perception.
And then also to play intoGoogle's algorithms, right?
Jeremy Julian (18:10):
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Yeah.
and talk.
(19:11):
Talk more tactically, Deric,cause I know, but our listeners
don't, you've got multiple toolsto manage, and again, we talk
about ovation being one Zach'sbeen on the show before we talk
about Bush.
They, I know that they help youwith some of the complaints and
on those kinds of things.
What are those tools that youput in place that you find?
And again, we were just.
A couple of weeks ago, hangingout at the FS tech show.
(19:33):
And I know that there's a lot ofpeople that you were talking to
that hadn't implemented theirbrands that are five times the
size of you guys that hadn'timplemented a lot of these
solutions and really are hurtingbecause of it.
And I think it's a testament towhat you guys invest in is
making sure that customer isgetting what they deserve and,
getting the product that theywant, but what are some of those
tactical tools and how do yousee them making a difference?
Again, you can start withovation and then go through some
(19:55):
of the other pieces, because Ithink you guys have such a
fantastic.
Tech stack that does allow youguys to pivot, does allow you
guys to change, does allow youguys to engage with the guests
where they are.
If they're in the dining room,it's one conversation.
If they're online, it's anotherconversation.
If they're from third party,it's a different conversation,
but you guys do, you spend somuch time to make sure the
guests are getting what theyneed.
(20:16):
Talk me through some of thetactical tools that you guys use
that help you get there.
Deric Rosenbaum (20:20):
first of all, you have to ask yourself, why am
I doing this?
And then you need to understandthe service recovery paradox.
that's been here long before anyof this technology suite
existed.
it's been proven time
Jeremy Julian (20:30):
room, it was a heck of a lot easier because you
could walk up, you could seethat somebody was disappointed.
They only ate, A third of theirsandwich.
And you can go, hello, Mr.
You know, Deric, what helped meunderstand what was it not made,
right?
Oh yeah, you screwed it up, butI got to go.
Let me give you a comp card tocome back or whatever it is that
your guest recovery is, sorry,I'll let you finish.
But it was so much easier whenthey were 90%, 95 percent of the
guests were coming into thestore now that
Deric Rosenbaum (20:52):
again.
Jeremy Julian (20:52):
everywhere else, it makes it so much harder.
Deric Rosenbaum (20:55):
Yeah.
it is basically a digital tabletouch.
is what it is.
we just happen to be able to doit at scale with technology.
it's harder for an independentoperator because you're, A,
dealing with everything going onin your store, and then you're
going to sit down at night anddo all this service recovery.
And, it's overwhelming, right?
I think that's where theadvantage of, a franchise or a
larger corporate entity is.
can aid because we can focus onthose components, team members
(21:18):
on our team can focus on thosecomponents and then operations
can address the operationalinsights or the sentiment
analysis that we're getting fromthese tools.
So to, ultimately, so Yes.
we use Ovation for directfeedback, or interventional
feedback as I like to call it,through our own native
solutions, through order online.
through in store receiptmessaging, QR codes.
(21:40):
The vast majority comes, thevast majority of our feedback
from Ovation comes from ournative digital ordering
solution, because it's fullyautomated.
It's a text.
It's five emojis.
It's quick.
And it starts a process and, wecan provide that service through
that tool via texting and thenoffers within the tool if we
(22:01):
need them.
But, by and large, most peoplejust want to be heard.
they just want to beacknowledged.
And, if we really messed up,we're going to take care of you.
We're going to refund yourmoney.
If you were missing anincremental sale item, like a
brownie wasn't in your order,that's a quick, easy fix.
We can refund it right then,right there.
Provide some loyalty points toyou and engage you back and you
(22:21):
can see how the service recoveryparadox works.
We do the same thing withMarquis on our third party side.
Not third party, but onlineside, so Yelp, TripAdvisor,
Google.
they have what they call an AIHIreview response.
it's using artificialintelligence and human
intelligence, and I also layerin hospitality intelligence,
(22:42):
because You need that to knowhow to engage customers.
we have automated most of thosetypes of reviews.
we still see them.
For a long time we approved themwhile we were getting
comfortable with the AI HIcombination and learning that.
And then like still the onestar, the one and two star
reviews come directly to us.
we can intervene more quickly.
(23:02):
knock on wood, they're limited.
Uh, if you take just those twocomponents together, Ovation is
also what I call a five starreview generator.
So if you leave us the bestemoji, we're going to push you
to Google or to Yelp orTripAdvisor or wherever it is.
it should probably be pushing toGoogle or Yelp because, Those
are the big boys.
Google owns 80 percent of thereview space.
(23:24):
we've bumped our score ratingsup within Google, which also
increases your relevance withinGoogle.
where do you place when you typesandwiches near me?
you want to be in that topthree, right?
Top five for sure.
Definitely not on the secondpage.
all of these, there's no onething.
it's, it's recency, it'srelevance, and It's velocity of
(23:45):
reviews.
All of these things contributeto your digital relevance.
And then customers, if a newcustomer is shopping for
whatever.
I want Jeremy's salad bowl, Youneed to come up first.
And when you do mess up, theywant to see that you actually
engage with that customer andhave addressed that.
And there's nothing wrong withthat being in a public forum.
in and of itself, hospitality ishuman derived and humans are
(24:07):
fallible.
Period.
End of story.
We are not robots.
We are not perfect.
We make mistakes.
People have bad days.
Just customers have bad days.
We have bad days.
I think it's showing ultimatelythat your care and, we see it
time and time again.
people will come in real hot ona piece of feedback and we just,
you can take it down reallyquick by just listening.
it's the same with a humanconversation, right?
(24:29):
we use voucher for third party.
so Uber, DoorDash, Grubhub,feedback stuff, it's a different
customer base for sure.
Absolutely it is.
I think rightfully Expectationsare a little different when you
order from a third partyprovider.
when we order at home, myexpectations certainly aren't
the same as when I go into therestaurant.
granted, I'm certainly biased,but, it's, these tools allow us
(24:53):
to do this reputation managementservice recovery at scale.
With a limited amount of people,
Jeremy Julian (24:59):
and
Deric Rosenbaum (25:00):
if you had a team doing that.
Jeremy Julian (25:02):
this is back to your point of doing the right
thing.
I find so few people don't dothese things and then they get,
they, they turn around sixmonths from now and go, why are
my sales down?
Because they haven't taken careof the guests.
The world has changed and movedon and without implementing some
system, and that system could beto your point at scale.
(25:22):
You need, you need more than,more than just somebody sitting
or looking at the reviews andresponding to them, manually,
you've gotten to a place whereyou're automating much of that,
but I think all too often peoplego, Oh, you know what?
We're great.
We don't need any of this.
Let me just keep doing ourthing.
And at the end of the day.
You do have some crazies, butmore and more of the digital
native consumers continue tocome into your brands.
(25:43):
And if you're not meeting themwhere they need to be and
hearing their feedback, Rev wason the show recently.
It hasn't posted yet, but he hadtalked about, he had talked
about his hamburger chain in NewYork city and somebody had
missed something, back to yourhumans are fallible.
And he told the story ofsomebody using table salts
instead of kosher salt to saltfries.
And their reviews showed thatthere was a problem that they
(26:05):
kept getting the salty fly fryreview You probably have heard
this story But for ourlisteners, that's a piece of
critical feedback that sayssomething's wrong at that store
that you've got to fix Not onlydo you need to recover that gas,
but there may be an operationalproblem.
There may be an ingredientproblem There may be a some kind
of problem internal to the brandand without hearing and seeing
(26:26):
that it's almost impossibleEspecially when you get beyond
one or two stores
Deric Rosenbaum (26:30):
Yeah.
it's hard to identify that withlike anecdotal knowledge.
if you take these tools, andthey all have sentiment analysis
and measurement capabilitiesbuilt within them.
it's taking, All the direct,Ovation, for example, takes all
your direct feedback, all youronline feedback, and puts that
into one sentiment tool.
And then we measure across ninemajor categories, and each one
(26:52):
has I don't know, three or foursubcategories.
speed, accuracy, service,cleanliness, food, whatever.
I don't know all off the top ofmy head.
And then it heat maps the entirechain by store across those
things.
every Monday morning, myoperations team goes straight to
that heat map.
We look at a word cloud analysisto identify, okay, is there some
(27:15):
sort of systemic problem hereacross the chain, or is this
isolated to a certain unit, sothen we can benchmark a unit to
the chain.
And then we can dig in andfigure out, okay, Something's
wrong with XYZ.
is it an employee?
Is it a product issue?
Is it a storage issue?
Is it a rotation issue?
(27:36):
Whatever that is.
And then we also do the samething with metrics across,
online ordering and downtimeand, There's lots of ways to
measure all of these things, andso it just makes my operations
team so much, their jobs so mucheasier.
And it allows them to identifythe real issues where they
should be spending their time,instead of just random routine
(27:58):
inspections.
we still do those, but, it'smuch easier to make a targeted
strike now with this data thatis, with the results that are
derived From actual data.
Jeremy Julian (28:08):
the customers.
and we've talked about it.
I've talked about it on the showquite a bit.
It's it's hard enough to get thecustomer in once you need to get
them to become a regular.
And if you can't get them tobecome a regular, it makes it
really challenging.
And if they are a regular, andthen you mess them up and you
can't recover it.
It's a huge deal.
and ultimately I'm sure you guyshave some kind of statistics
about what lifetime values arefor customers, but it's pretty
(28:29):
high in a high frequency, highfrequency type brand like
yourself, where you could have aGroucho's deli sandwich twice a
week.
If if you were so inclined andlosing that customer potentially
could be really hard for one ofthe stores.
if you
Deric Rosenbaum (28:40):
Yeah,
Jeremy Julian (28:40):
it,
Deric Rosenbaum (28:41):
for us, we focus.
soundly on retention, like we donew guest acquisition, but we
focus 10 times the effort intoguest retention and the results
are proven data driven.
we are a partner with Vicki andthere are CDP tools that we
measure everything six ways fromSunday.
you can't prove what you can'tmeasure, right?
(29:02):
With BICI, we have, and thecumulative effect, and I'll show
you this graph when we'reoffline, because I have actually
measured it, and, with all theincremental things that we've
done to improve over the lastfive years, and again,
everything's incremental.
You can't do it, at one time.
You have to start with the bigrocks and work your way down.
currently we were rocking like a46 percent guest habituality
(29:24):
rate, which is unheard of.
in our industry.
Jeremy Julian (29:28):
What's your name?
Starbucks, maybe or DunkinDonuts, right?
which is a very differentexperience.
It's not food.
I'm gonna flip things away fromtech here for just a second
there because we're gettingclose to the end.
Talk to me about, you, you wouldshare with me.
I'd love for you to share withour listeners.
what's your favorite three itemsor, what's your family?
to eat when they go intogrouchos because, there's some,
(29:48):
you guys have some prettyspecial products and having
looked through the menu, hadsomebody not walked me through
it, it was one of those thingsthat I'm like, Oh, I'll take one
of each because at the end ofthe day, they all look so good,
give our listeners that, thatmight be going to a grouchos for
the first time in the next sixmonths, what are the one or two
items that you say, you knowwhat, If you've never been,
these are the two things thatyou need to have.
And maybe you can even tell thestory of, the story that you
(30:08):
told me when we were at FS techof that, that guest that, that
said, I have not, I can't orderanything different.
Deric Rosenbaum (30:13):
We'll start with that sandwich because it's
hands down our most popular.
It's 20 plus percent of ourrevenue comes from this one
sandwich.
so it's an STP dipper.
our dipper sandwiches wereinvented during the 60s, during
the space race.
So they represent like a spacecapsule getting dunked into the
45 sauce.
But the STP is roast beef,turkey, bacon bits, Swiss cheese
served hot and open faced with achip pickle and our signature
(30:36):
formula for the 45 sauce, which.
I can, closest thing I can likenit to is a Russian Thousand
Island dressing, but a thousandtimes better.
And of course, Groucho Deliaward winning sweet tea, which I
mean, we won best sweet tea inthe state of South Carolina.
That is hard to do, bro.
Jeremy Julian (30:50):
Yes.
Deric Rosenbaum (30:51):
so I asked a good friend of mine who I went
to school with here at theUniversity of South Carolina,
and I see him in Groucho's offand on, and I was down there a
couple years ago, and he wasdown there with his wife and
kids, and I walked up to him,and his nickname is Toontz, and
I'm like, Toontz.
He always eats an STP.
Every time he comes in.
And I said, if you eat somethingdifferent today, I will buy your
entire family's lunch.
(31:11):
He stopped and thought about itlike really hard.
And after 10 seconds, he looksat me and goes, I can't do it.
And I said, why man?
He goes, because if I walk outof here and get hit by a city
bus, my last meal from Groucho'sDeli cannot have not been an
STP.
And I'm like, can't argue yourlogic.
Jeremy Julian (31:28):
I love that story.
You told me that story when wewere most recently together and
it made me, and again, the firstthing I had, because I had a
couple of rabid fans that, whenI was down in green Greenville,
they, they were like, dude, You,you try nothing other than the
STP with 45 sauce.
Get extra 45 sauce if you can,because that's where things are
at.
You want to go a second time,third time, fourth time, go try
something else.
But, but the s st p is whereit's at.
(31:49):
But what's your guys' family'sorder?
what are the girls, what do thegirls eat?
And what's their, what's theirgo-to, what's your most popular
salad?
What's your most popularsandwich beyond the STP?
Maybe
Deric Rosenbaum (31:58):
my go to is our Reuben variation, which we make
with pastrami, but we have asecond variation of That which
is the slaw Reuben.
we take our house made mustardbased coleslaw and substitute
the kraut with mustard cheeseand German mustard on
pumpernickel.
So good.
First cut smoked brisket.
We use saddle brothers out ofBaltimore.
It's it's an amazing product.
(32:20):
Our go to, our My Wife SaladBowl is hands down our favorite.
there's actually a story I'll,if you do come here, I'll show
you on the wall.
our second floor is like amuseum.
Um, I, my, the second generationof Groucho's kind of brought the
first, lunch salads to theColumbia area.
the My Wife Salad Bowl is justthis enormous salad with turkey,
ham.
(32:41):
Tomatoes, cucumber, cubedcheese, bacon, shredded cheddar.
it's just everything's in thesalad.
So it hands down.
And then in, 2018, we revampedour healthy lifestyles menu
because it was previously madein the 80s by a different
generation when low fat was thecraze.
But everybody means everyone nowknows That low fat means high
(33:01):
sugar, right?
we revamped that menu and, In2018 and we brought in this new,
fire braised chicken breast andit is magical.
And so our Arcadian chickensalad is delicious.
So it comes in a bed of organicgreens with feta cheese, Greek
olives.
Fire braised chicken breast,your choice of dressing.
(33:23):
It's to die for.
Jeremy Julian (33:24):
sounds amazing.
And you just got to top it offwith the best sweet tea in South
Carolina.
Is that the deal?
Deric Rosenbaum (33:30):
That's it.
Jeremy Julian (33:30):
Love it.
Love it.
Deric, how can people stay intouch with you?
Can I get connected?
I know you're pretty active onLinkedIn, but how would you say
they should connect with thebrand, how to, keep up with what
you guys are doing and, or quitefrankly, if they're, if they're
interested in potentially evenopening up a store in their
neighborhood, is that somethingthat, that you might consider
talking to them about?
Deric Rosenbaum (33:48):
grouchos.
com is always probably the bestplace to go.
And if you scroll down to thefooter, you can find lots of
information about franchisingand some of our philosophies and
the things we do and ourcampaigns and programs, you're
going to get past, obviouslyordering is going to be at the
top of the page, right?
But, if you're looking for me,Outside of LinkedIn, you're not
going to find me.
but you can certainly submit aninquiry on our website and it
(34:08):
will get to where it needs togo.
email logic is pretty simple.
Jeremy Julian (34:11):
Love that.
Deric, thank you for coming on.
I know, Like I said to youbefore we hit the record button,
I, respect all that you do andgenuinely, I think you're an
amazing operator, amazingtechnologist, you get it.
And it's a privilege to hearwhat you get to do.
you know what you get to do fora living and how you think about
the brand.
And, again, selfishly, they needto put some Grouchos out by me
cause, it was so damn good.
to our listeners, guys, thankyou guys for hanging out.
(34:32):
Like we said at the beginning,make it a great day.
Thanks for listening to theRestaurant Technology Guys
podcast.
Visit www.
RestaurantTechnologyGuys.
com for tips, industry insights,and more to help you run your
restaurant better.
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Dateline NBC
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The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!