March 10, 2025 • 35 mins
Restaurant Tech Innovations: AI, Dynamic Pricing, and Future Trends with Joe Gaskowski
In this episode of the Restaurant Technology Guys podcast, host Jeremy Julian is joined by Joe Gaskowski, Senior Editor at Restaurant Business, to discuss the state of the restaurant industry, especially casual dining, and future technological trends. They talk about the impact of AI in areas such as drive-thrus, back-of-house operations, and marketing. The conversation also delves into the controversial dynamic pricing, voice AI, and the strategic use of third-party delivery services. Additionally, the challenges of integrating new tech with legacy systems and the importance of tech consolidation for seamless operations are highlighted.
00:00 Audio Joe Guszkowski
00:50 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:14 Joe Gaskowski's Background and Role
02:29 Trends in Restaurant Technology for 2024
03:06 The Rise of AI in the Restaurant Industry
04:49 Dynamic Pricing in Restaurants
15:10 Voice AI and Its Applications
21:50 Third-Party Delivery Services
25:44 Technology in Casual Dining
31:40 Future of Restaurant Technology
33:47 Conclusion and Upcoming Events
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
This is the RestaurantTechnology Guys podcast, helping
you run your restaurant better.
In today's episode, we arejoined by editor and writer from
one of the most popularrestaurant publications, Joe
(00:23):
Gaskowski.
Joe and I talk quite a bit aboutthe state of restaurants, the
state of casual dining, wherethings are going.
As well as what he sees in thefuture as he continues to talk
to restaurant leaders.
If you don't know me, my name isJeremy Julian.
I am the chief revenue officerfor custom business solutions,
where we sell the Northstarpoint of sale solution for
(00:44):
multiple unit restaurants.
Please check us out atcbsnorthstar.
com.
Jeremy Julian (00:50):
Welcome back to the Restaurant Technology Guys
podcast.
I thank everyone out there forjoining us.
As I say, each and every time Iknow you guys got lots of
choices.
So thank you guys for hangingwith us this week.
Today I am joined by somebodythat I am certain most of our
listeners have seen stuffpublished from Joe, but I'm
gonna let him introduce himselfhere for just a second and talk
a little bit about where he,where he's at now and a little
(01:13):
bit of his background, but Joe.
why don't you introduce yourselfto our listeners?
Like I said, do probably lessvideo than you do, than you do
writing and publishing on thatside, right?
Joe Guszkowski (01:20):
Yeah, much more of a writer.
but thanks for having me onJeremy.
I'm Joe Gaskowski, senior editorat Restaurant Business.
I cover technology and, casualdining chains.
And I've been doing that since,2020, summer of 2020.
So it's been an interesting fewyears,
Jeremy Julian (01:37):
especially the fact that you got pegged with
the casual dining space throughthe pandemic.
So that, that probably was, wasinteresting as well.
Joe Guszkowski (01:44):
Yeah, definitely.
It gets more interesting everyyear, it seems.
Jeremy Julian (01:47):
It does.
Absolutely.
for those that are not familiar,like I said, I'm certain most
are going to be familiar withyour guys publication, but, what
is it that, that you guys do youfocus on tech, but overall as a
brand, what is it that you guysdo just for those that, that may
not already be subscribers orsee the stuff that you guys put
out there.
Joe Guszkowski (02:02):
Yeah, we cover the entire industry from a
business perspective, from thebiggest chains on down to the
mom and pops.
we've been around for a longtime.
I don't know how long.
We used to be a magazine, and,now we're just digital, but,
yeah, we host some eventsthrough our parent company
Informa, and, we do podcasts, wedo newsletters, so all kinds of
(02:24):
stuff.
So yeah, restaurant businessonline.
com.
That's the website.
Jeremy Julian (02:29):
Awesome.
And, like I said, at the onset,when I did the intro, I know
lots of people have probablyread some of the stuff that you
put out there and definitely theorganization as a whole, we're
recording this in early, 2025,Joe, and I know you and I talked
about, what were some of thebiggest trends that you saw
happening within 2024?
cause that really talk aboutwhere it's going to carry into
2025, but as you look at it at amacro level, As it pertains to
(02:53):
technology, less so about brandsin general, but as it pertains
to technology, what are some ofthe biggest things that you saw
out there?
that you saw people doing welland some things that people
might've gone, I don't quiteunderstand why they're doing
this.
Joe Guszkowski (03:06):
Yeah.
I think the big one from lastyear was AI.
I think it was the, it wascertainly the thing that
everyone wanted to talk about,at our, we have a conference FS
tech in the fall and AI prettymuch, dominated the discussion
there.
and I can, it means so manythings and it's a very general
(03:27):
topic, I think what's beeninteresting about it is how it's
really being adopted up and downthe industry.
a lot of times with newtechnology.
It's the big guys that set thepace and set the curve.
And, that's certainly true withAI.
I think like the big chains aredoing the most with it, but it's
(03:52):
also being used very widelyamong small operators, which is
surprising and I think unusual.
And so I guess it speaks to themany different things that I can
do.
a single unit, mom and pop mayuse it to craft a, an email
marketing email or help themcome up with new menu items, a
(04:16):
large chain, like Taco Bellmight use it to automate the
drive through, so it's veryflexible in what it can do.
And everyone.
Seems to be extremely interestedin, implementing it somehow.
and so that was, when I thinkback on last year, that was the
theme that ran through the yearand I'm sure we'll.
(04:36):
We'll continue, into this year.
some of the other things, I didlike a roundup at the end of the
year, touching on different, thetrends, one of the things that
came up in 2024 was dynamicpricing.
Which had a kind of a up anddown year, starting with, the
Wendy's saying they were goingto use it and getting a bunch of
(04:56):
backlash.
And I think there's a lot ofdebate over, the future of that
and, where that's going to go.
I'd be happy to get into thatwith you.
If you want to talk about that alittle, I don't know what your
feelings are on dynamic pricing.
Jeremy Julian (05:10):
Yeah, no, I'd love to talk a little bit about
that.
Before we jump there real quick,you talked a lot about AI.
I agree with you.
There's not a podcast that Ithink I've done in the last 18
months that hasn't had AImentioned in some way, shape or
form.
but you talked about some of theways that you see people using.
Is there anywhere else that yousee it getting adopted?
I agree with you fullyautomating the drive through
creating marketing campaigns,really, I don't say low bar
(05:32):
stuff, but good low bar stuffthat'll allow people.
helping with social media posts,those kinds of things.
Are there any other areas thatyou've seen people adopting AI
because AI is so broad that youthink is either underutilized
where you're like, Oh, theseguys really nailed it with AI.
And I think more people need toknow about it in order to
enhance their brand and do thethings that they might want to
(05:52):
do.
Joe Guszkowski (05:53):
Yeah, actually I think, The place where AI is
being used the most is probablyin the back of house for things
like inventory and salesforecasting and scheduling and
stuff like that.
That's actually where it'sprobably the most mature and the
easiest to implement at thispoint, because you have the data
(06:15):
there.
To allow it to do its thing.
so yeah, that's, that is, thesexy stuff is like the voice AI
and things like that, but that'sprobably a long way off from
being totally mature.
So yeah.
Jeremy Julian (06:27):
I agree.
I think taking those big datasets that we have,'cause it,
most of our listeners know I, Iwork in the point of sale
industry and, we produce so muchdata, but being able to analyze
it for so long was so hard.
But now with ai, you can putthese things in these models,
whether that's how much chickendo I need to prep for tomorrow
versus how much chicken do Ineed to order for tomorrow, and
what does that look like?
What is, what are my salestrends?
(06:48):
Those things used to take.
Days to generate these reportsand figure out how to do them.
Now with AI, it can get spit outpretty quickly to make
discernible differences withinthe lives of your business.
And quite honestly, drive someprofitability.
Joe Guszkowski (07:01):
Yeah.
It seems to be a very goodpredictor and it's, the
predictive side is well, along,and the generative side is
what's still coming into being
Jeremy Julian (07:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I'd love to, before weget done, talk a little bit
about the voice AI, becausewe've seen some successes and
some failures, but before we gothere, I.
Actually, just last week was ona podcast or I don't even know
if it was a webcast that, SeanWalsh out of, out of San Diego
put on about dynamic pricingwith the former, CEO juicer
talking about it.
(07:31):
And so I guess.
For our listeners lived under arock and didn't see all the
press and didn't see everythingthat was going on with dynamic
pricing.
Can you explain what dynamicpricing is?
Cause I, I have an opinion forsure.
And I think restaurants havebeen doing dynamic pricing
forever.
It's just for whatever reason,people got all up in arms when
Wendy's just said they weregoing to.
everybody thinks of it as surgepricing.
(07:52):
And so I have some opinions, butI'd love for you to define at
least, what do you think of asdynamic pricing when you may
mention it?
Joe Guszkowski (07:59):
Yeah, quite simply, I think it's just the
adjusting of your prices, basedon demand at any given time.
And, typically that's beingsupported by some kind of
software and maybe some AI.
and, I think it's, it.
Like you said, it's actuallybeen happening for a long time.
(08:19):
The original sort of dynamicpricing is happy hour.
Everyone likes to say, and sonow you're doing happy hour, but
you can do it throughout the daybased on whether you're busy or
not.
And I think it's a, I think it'slike a really smart idea.
I think it's got, it's just gotsome perception issues.
Jeremy Julian (08:34):
And I don't understand why.
So I, on the podcast that I wason last week that I was
recording last week, I took atrip during the holidays with my
family and we drove, a thousandmiles for the family deal.
It was a long trip, but it wasgood.
Did some sightseeing on the way,but, Me being not so much of a
planner and a little bit of arenegade.
I just chose to get gas when Ichose to get gas.
(08:56):
And I happened to get gas in aspot where there was no gas a
hundred miles either way.
So I paid almost 7 for a gallonof gas because there was no gas
a hundred miles either way.
And I would have run out of gashad I not gone that well at the
end of the day, does that gasstation owner deserve to get an
extra 4 a gallon for gas becausehe just happened to put a gas
(09:18):
station.
In this spot, I think he doesand I don't quite understand why
There's this mentality of theconsumers.
You don't have to order it Weall know that the third party
delivery providers and we'lltalk a little bit about them in
a little bit But the third partydelivery providers don't charge
the same price 99 times out of100 as you would if I walked
into the door So why is it anydifferent when i'm coming
(09:40):
through the drive thru on a busyfriday night?
to be able to do that other thanthe fact that technology now
allows us to do that and iscapable of doing that so that's
I guess my first opinion Thesecond side of it is we also
take advantage of it Nobody everwants to talk about the fact
that I got happy hour pricingthat they didn't charge me the
proper amount for this vodkathat I was drinking that I got
(10:01):
top shelf, but I got charged thewell vodka price nobody wants to
talk about that Everybody onlywants to talk about the fact
that my price might go up on,you know a busy night I'd love
to, I'd love to, hear yourthoughts on that, Joe.
Joe Guszkowski (10:12):
at the worst possible time last year because
consumers were so focused onprice, especially at restaurants
that the prospect of arestaurant actually raising
prices at certain times, justdidn't sit right with them.
I don't think they thought aboutthe opposite, Oh, you could
actually get a better deal too.
(10:34):
And also the fact that we'retalking about very sort of
surgical pricing changes.
this isn't surge pricing it's.
maybe cents, maybe a dollar, SoI think the perception was that
restaurants are trying to likeprice gouge or something, and
that just blew up becauseconsumers were so sensitive.
(10:57):
I think it will eventually endup happening.
And like you said, it alreadyis, and places are using it to
seemingly.
Great success, but customers aregoing to have to get used to it
and they have gotten used to itin other industries.
So I see no reason why theywon't for restaurants.
It was just a tough, it's goingto be a little bit rocky,
especially now.
Jeremy Julian (11:16):
and the funny thing is we have all, I've been
working in this space for over25 years.
There's the opposite effect ofI'm trying to drive business
between two and five.
Sonic has always had this, happyhour for their slushies before
the peak hours and after theirpeak hours to drive that
behavior.
So to me, Dynamic pricing isdynamic based on the volume
(11:37):
that's coming into therestaurant.
So it may mean that slushie isat full price, but at 10 PM it's
at a dollar less or at 2 PM itmight be at a dollar less.
not during the lunch period, notduring the dinner period.
And why do you think that thepress didn't pick up on that?
you happen to live in the pressworld, but why did the press not
pick up on it, I think it wasthe wall street journal or the
New York times that was the bigone that kind of roasted the
(11:58):
Wendy's group, but why do youthink that the press?
Picked up on only the fact thatwe were going to increase
pricing and didn't consider theopposite
Joe Guszkowski (12:05):
That is a great question.
And it gets into the mediaindustry and what, our issues
are these days.
But, To put it simply likepublications need readers and
readers will respond to aheadline that says, Wendy's is
going to do surge pricing, muchmore than the actual nuanced
truth of the matter.
so I, I think that's probablyit, outrage and anger fuels a
(12:28):
lot of, attention and much moreso than the actual nitty gritty
of the
Jeremy Julian (12:36):
of what's really happening.
yeah, it was, and quite frankly,it was unfortunate from my
perspective, because I do see itas an opportunity for
restaurants to be moresuccessful in the times that
they can be more successful.
And, the other piece I would askJoe is in the world of
restaurant tech, a lot of peopleput a lot of point solutions out
there.
I don't think dynamic pricingand or surge pricing, whatever
(12:59):
you want to call it, was reallysomething that was capable with
some of the legacy systems thatwere out there.
and I guess I would ask you yourthoughts on, where technology is
at to be able to enhance thesethings and truly make these
changes, because I think.
All too often people have beenlimited by their previous
choices, whether it's the pointsolution that they have in house
(13:20):
or even their point of sale thatdoesn't allow them for the
capability to be flexible, tohave these things change during
the day.
Do you think that's why it'ssomething that's capable again,
even hotels, it was, it's mostlyweb, and you can change web a
lot easier than you can changein store systems.
And so a web order is coming infor these hotels or the
airlines, They've got reallylegacy tech in the airlines.
(13:42):
We saw Southwest and AmericanAirlines a couple of years ago
go down and really kill theirbrand.
But the online orders would beable to do that.
But in restaurants, they'vealways had a lot of them have
store centric systems that don'thave that capability.
I see that as a, as people aremigrating to newer systems, it
certainly gives them thecapability to, to do that.
Is that something that you'reseeing with the brands that
(14:02):
you're talking to?
Joe Guszkowski (14:03):
absolutely.
I think every tech supplierwants to become more integrated
and more connected.
And, I've seen a lot ofrestaurants overhauling their
entire stack in the name ofIntegration, and so that should
create opportunities to do morethings digitally, that,
(14:24):
integrates better with theoverall operation.
where prices are reflected,across every interface, menus
are matched across all yourtouch points, et cetera.
yeah, I think a dynamic pricingshould become easier to do when
you have a system that's set up.
Jeremy Julian (14:43):
Yep.
Yeah.
And I think when I talk withCMOs and different marketing
groups around the country, it'slike one of their biggest pain
points is they want to come outwith a campaign next week and it
takes weeks for them to get allof their systems updated.
And so to your point, Being ableto take advantage of what you
talked about earlier with AI, aswell as some of this new dynamic
pricing pieces, it's next toimpossible without systems that
are talking to each other,because you just have to have so
(15:05):
much human capital to be able togo deploy it versus some of the
newer stuff that's out there.
What else, you talked aboutvoice AI, Joe, where have you
seen that kind of hitting andwhat are your thoughts on voice
AI?
Because that is another piece ofthe puzzle.
We've seen some big brands thathave talked about doing it for
the drive through some peoplethat have talked about doing it
for their, for the dining room,talk to me a little bit about
what does that even mean?
(15:25):
and I have my opinion on it.
We've done a little bit ofintegration with some different
providers for it.
and I think, I think it has alot of promise, but I'd love
kind of your thoughts from amacro level at the industry
level.
Joe Guszkowski (15:35):
Yeah, I would say like the place you're most
likely to encounter a voice AIbot would be when you like call
a restaurant to order a pizza.
I think that's the place that'sbeing most quickly adopted.
And I don't want to put a numberout there, but I think it's
(15:55):
becoming much more common.
and, the employee no longer hasto answer the phone, et cetera,
et cetera.
the drive through is the nextplace that I think this is going
to happen.
And this is.
certainly picking up.
we're seeing some of the biggestchains doing it now.
Taco Bell, notably.
I know McDonald's is looking atit, trying to figure it out.
(16:17):
that raises a lot moredifficulties than the phone.
you have, ambient noise thatcreates issues.
and you have a lot higher volumetoo in the drive thru.
Needless to say for fast food.
but I think this year, I thinkwe're going to continue to see
more of that.
And I would imagine that thetechnology, improves as AI is
(16:40):
intended to do.
Gets, learns and gets better.
Jeremy Julian (16:43):
better as time goes on.
That to me is the big thing thatI, so I was just on with, I just
recorded a podcast with the CEOof Donato's pizza.
and he and I were talking about,so pizza, he's a former Domino's
guy and has been in the pizzaspace for a lot of his career.
And he and I were just talkingthrough a lot of that for those
that are naysayers and say,there's two pieces of.
AI that oftentimes head, it'sOh, you're just replacing,
(17:06):
you're trying to get rid of allof the employees that are in the
space, for, and then there's thesecond side of it is I don't
want to get in that infiniteloop where I have to scream
representative at the top of mylungs, 14 times to get, 14
times, to get what I'm lookingfor, help me understand what,
What would you say to thosepeople that are out there that
are listening to this going,have no idea, they have no idea
how much it's grown and how wellit's actually being adopted and
(17:30):
how, quite frankly, even theguests are happier with it
oftentimes than they are evenwhen talking with the staff
member.
Joe Guszkowski (17:37):
Yeah.
on the labor side, I think youhave to remember that
restaurants have a laborproblem.
And I think that is the impetusbehind adopting some of this AI.
but again, it's new, it'snuanced.
It's not, it's certainly not,we're going to replace every
employee in the restaurant.
I think what restaurants willsay is we put the AI in the
drive thru and then that drivethru order taker can do other
(18:01):
things that are a little, maybea little more rewarding and more
focused on the guests and thehospitality.
I've heard some chains say thatthey've been able to trim their
overall labor hours a littlebit, basically to pay for the
technology, but they're notgoing down to.
one person in the restaurant oranything that extreme.
(18:23):
And I don't think that's theultimate goal.
I think it's, it's to, it willhave numerous benefits, not only
labor, and that I guess getsinto the customer side, I think
there will always be a subset ofcustomers that just want to
order from a person.
but I think the AI is gettingbetter.
(18:44):
And one thing that you could sayfor the AI is that it's never
going to be in a bad mood.
never going
Jeremy Julian (18:51):
shows up for work.
Joe Guszkowski (18:53):
exactly, it's going to be there.
it's going to be prompt and, I'msure we've all dealt with.
Drive through employees who justseem like they don't want to be
there and that's not niceeither.
I think There's gonna be somefrustrations Here in the early
goings and there's always like Isaid, there's gonna be people
(19:14):
who don't want to use it And,and that's fine, but there are
some, there are benefits to ittoo, that maybe don't get talked
about as much.
Jeremy Julian (19:21):
and I think in general, one of the things that
I heard a CEO say, and itactually at the show you talked
about FS tech.
I think that the CTO of TacoBell had talked about it's hard
to hire people and when they gethired, they don't want to work
that drive through job becausethat drive through job is one of
the hardest jobs in quickservice to operate in the phone
operators at a time.
(19:41):
Pizza place is also one of thehardest jobs.
Delivery driver is not a hugechallenge to get.
Even pizza maker is not a hugechallenge to get at a pizza
place.
the people that are working theline at Taco Bell, not a, not as
hard to staff versus the drivethru that is having to deal with
the order and the taking paymentand the whole nine yards.
It's just, it's a tough deal.
I was just at a brand yesterdayhaving lunch and the guy that
(20:02):
was taking my order at thecounter.
Was also trying to deal with thedrive through and it was just,
it was a tough situation.
And so I think all too oftenit's hard to staff that
position.
And even if you do find somebodythat can staff it, you don't
always get the best, teammember.
And so being able to figure outhow to automate some of that, is
huge.
And then repurpose that labor tosomething that they're going to
do well, that's going to addvalue versus something that
(20:24):
might not add as much value.
The other thing that I hear fromAI and really the advent of
digital ordering and kiosks andthings like that.
Is it always asks for theupsell?
It always does what you ask itfor.
It always asks if you want todrink without it, you want to
add fries.
You want to do this, you want todo that.
Whereas a human, you can trainthem and train them and train
them.
And sometimes they do, andsometimes they don't.
And so making sure that they dothat.
Joe Guszkowski (20:47):
Yes.
Yeah.
That's one of the many benefitsthat, AI is promising here is
that not only is it maybe goingto save you some money, but it's
also going to increase yourrevenue because it always asks
for the upsell.
pretty much all the chains thathave used it have said something
like that.
Jeremy Julian (21:03):
Yeah, no, I was just at Portillo's.
There's a Portillo's that openednear me, in grapevine, Texas.
And, it upsold me.
It upsold my son and I, to,they're not using voice AI.
It was a kiosk, but it was samekind of idea.
And it was one of those thingsthat I didn't realize.
Cause I'm, I it's the firstdigital it's their digital kind
of store.
And it was quite frankly, it wasa very good experience for me as
(21:23):
a guest, but it was differentthan my traditional Portillo's
experience.
And then I looked at my receiptafterwards.
I was like, I didn't know I gotthe large fries and it had
upsold me to the large fries.
Cause my kid was ringing up onthe kiosk.
And again, I wasn't, I takeaccountability for that because
it was my choice to go and do itdigitally, they would allow me
to go to the front and withmost, with most, even in the
(21:44):
voice AI space, they haveoperator assisted, something
there.
so I'm going to pivot realquick.
You talked about some thirdparty, a little bit earlier.
Where do you see third partytrending?
a lot of people rush to getthird party.
I think, just before you gotinto the space, I would say
that, especially even in casualdining, there was a lot fewer
that were doing third partydelivery with the pandemic,
everybody rushed to get on UberEats and DoorDash and Grubhub
(22:07):
and all of the differentplatforms.
And as it started to normalize,I.
See more and more press aboutpeople trying to figure out what
is third part?
Is it additive?
Is it taken away different?
talk to me a little bit aboutthe landscape of third party and
where do you see it at today?
the beginning of 2025 and wheredo you see it going?
Joe Guszkowski (22:25):
Yeah.
it's gonna, it continues to be asomething that you just can't
really ignore as a restaurantbecause it continues growing
and, against all odds, customerscontinue to be willing to use it
and pay for it.
Jeremy Julian (22:40):
But they complain about adding 10 cents to my, my,
my double Wendy's burger, butthey're going to pay an extra 3
to get a door dash.
Sorry.
I don't mean to interrupt you,but it's like, it doesn't make
any sense to me, but, they'reconsumers and that's the way it
works.
Joe Guszkowski (22:51):
yeah, it's a bit of a
Jeremy Julian (22:53):
huh.
Joe Guszkowski (22:53):
but, I think as with a lot of technology that
restaurants quickly adoptedduring the pandemic and didn't
really think about much.
I think brands are getting muchmore strategic and they need to
be thinking much morestrategically about how they use
third party and, what it's forand I think there are different
(23:14):
ways to look at it.
some just look at it as amarketing channel, you get,
maybe you can attract some firsttime users that way and
hopefully, convert them to orderfirst party, which is hard.
but it's, it can also be a saleschannel.
you are likely to charge extraon third party to make the
margins better.
(23:34):
And, so it could be, at the endof the day is similar to a, an
in store sale, but I think it,you need as a restaurant, you
need to be thinking about whatyou want to.
to do for you.
You can't just be out there onthe third parties.
And it's almost like a wholeseparate line of business that
you need someone to be focusedon.
And it's very, it's complicatedand it's always changing.
(23:56):
now, one of the things the appsare doing is really leaning into
the discounts and promotions andthey want restaurants to buy
into this stuff and offer.
buy one, get ones, et cetera, etcetera.
And so that's a whole notherline in your formula that you
need to be aware of.
So it's going to require morefocus, from restaurants now that
(24:17):
things have normalized a little.
Jeremy Julian (24:18):
and I think that they need to resource it to your
point.
They need to resource somebodythat's going to manage it.
I was just dealing with a brandhere locally who back to your
couponing, they'd had whateverit was, free, 5 off or whatever.
And they actually had a problemwith the taxes cause it was
taking the.
5 off and taxing on the netamount, not on the gross amount.
And, so even little things likethat, we've had some guests on
(24:40):
before, the founder of loop AI,who does a whole bunch of
reconciliation.
Cause you got to deal with thereconciliation side of it.
There's another group that hasbeen on the show before dealing
with dispute management and didthe guests really get that?
And so the board.
I would agree with you that itis not something you can just
put your head in the sand andignore, so you do have to
(25:00):
resource it, and it is a verydifferent business model.
No different than takeout ordelivery is a different business
model.
every one of these third party.
Partners, you've got to havestaffing.
You've got to have somebody todeal with the accounting side of
it.
You've got to have packaging,you've got to have products.
You've got to, you've got to dopricing.
You've got to make sure you dealwith all of that stuff.
So I love that.
And for those that kind ofeither put their head in the
(25:22):
sand or just launched it andsaid, I hope and pray that it
works.
I would encourage you all toconsider some of the stuff that
Joe had talked about, because Ithink it's something.
That, that really needs to beresourced appropriately because
it can be a channel that cangrow your sales if done
properly.
It can also hit your brand, hurtyour brand significantly if you
don't do it properly.
or it can hurt you financiallyif you're not managing the
(25:43):
financial side of it.
The last thread I wanted to godown, Joe, is just, where do you
see, we've talked a lot about AIand how it's enhancing back of
the house.
It's enhancing front of thehouse for voice and quick serve,
but I know you also cover thecasual dining space, which
obviously from a total, chainbusiness perspective is a lot
smaller market, a lot less.
Units, but where do you seetechnology?
(26:04):
Not only enhancing, but, reallyaccelerating casual dining's
gotten punched in the mouth thelast 18 months, it's been hard.
There's been a lot ofbankruptcies.
There's been a lot of pain andsuffering in the casual dining
space, but some are doing itreally well.
some are doing it well, and somehave figured it out and some are
using technology to theiradvantage to get a leg up on
(26:25):
their competition, help ourlisteners that.
Are out there to understand whatthose things are.
you know what those things areout there and, what should they
be considering?
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Joe Guszkowski (27:11):
Yeah, I think in casual dining tech can really
help with that sort of end ofmeal friction point of the bill
paying the check.
and a lot of places now you'llsee have the tablet on the table
where you can pay.
this could also be accomplishedjust through a QR code on the
receipt that allow you to scanit with your phone and pay and
(27:35):
leave.
I think generally casual diningwants to get faster and act more
like a Almost like a fast,casual experience where you
could get in and out in areasonable time.
And I think tech is going tohave to be part of that.
stuff at the table, evenordering on your phone or on a
(27:57):
tablet, although I know, like Ipersonally don't like that,
places are going to offer thattoo.
The other side is more workingin the background with, customer
data.
Casual dining, you don't see alot of casual dining loyalty
programs just less frequentoccasions.
Starbucks, people go toStarbucks every
Jeremy Julian (28:17):
Yep.
Joe Guszkowski (28:17):
natural dining chain.
You might go twice a year, butthere are brands now that are
testing loyalty programs andlooking to make use of that data
to drive people in.
And that's a novel idea for thatsegment.
so that's another, a big areaof.
(28:37):
where technology I think isgoing to have an impact for full
service.
Jeremy Julian (28:41):
Yeah, one other thing that I'd love your opinion
on Joe is we've talked to acouple different vendors that
are trying to help with some ofthe workforce management in
casual dining.
We've all been at the propertywhere our.
our drink hasn't been refilledor we're waiting for our check
and we can't, there's alwaysfriction points.
it's my food has taken too long.
It took too long for somebody toget me a drink.
It took too, I wanted to reordera drink or I wanted to order
(29:03):
dessert.
I couldn't order dessert.
Now I got to go get to themovie.
So to me, you talked about boththe ordering and payment
process.
Definitely huge there.
But in the sequences of service,we've seen some different,
vision AI type companies comingaround to see what's going on
within the dining room.
And try and prompt.
Have you seen any of that?
Have you seen anybody adoptingthat?
I've seen the tech.
I haven't necessarily seen anycase studies yet, but it's
(29:26):
cameras that are around thatsay.
You need to go refill the drinkat table 12.
They should be in that section.
They should be doing it at table12, but it's computers now
prompting them to make sure thatthey get table 12 drink refilled
and an opportunity to upsell andor to get them another beer or
whatnot.
Joe Guszkowski (29:45):
Yeah.
So I've heard of this technologyand I have not seen it
implemented or I've not talkedto anyone who's implemented it,
but we were just actuallytalking, yesterday about
basically the idea of cameras inrestaurants and how that's
becoming a thing now, both inthe back of house and the dining
room.
Like you said, I think that's.
(30:06):
Something that I probably goingto look into this year and if I
could find, an example ofsomeone, if you're out there
listening, using cameras, likethe way Jeremy just described to
prompt employees.
that's a fascinating, area oftech that is certainly coming
and, but I don't know if we'veseen a lot of, examples of it
(30:26):
yet.
Jeremy Julian (30:27):
Yeah, no.
And the other one on that,vision AI pieces, food quality,
making sure that the right itemsget prepared.
And we've seen a couple ofdifferent companies.
I know there was some peoplethat, that were at, FSTech, you
guys trade show that were there.
I'm heading to NRF this week,and that's a retail show, but,
I'm going to go put my feet onthe ground and go see what's
going on in the retail space.
Cause they've always got robotsand things that are trying to
(30:47):
get in and help.
Joe Guszkowski (30:49):
step ahead of us, aren't they?
Jeremy Julian (30:50):
That's part of why I go to NRF every year is
for those that don't go to NRFor, big brands for sure.
And a lot of the big brands,we'll run into McDonald's and
Chick fil A and Taco Bell andsome of those guys, they'll have
a lot of their people there.
But, some of the smaller brands,it's in New York city, it's
always in January, butretailers, the volume that they
do, they've always got somedifferent things that are
interesting.
And I always try and go and talkto those different providers to
(31:12):
figure out what the Walmart'sand the targets and the,
Costco's are doing and how canthat relate back to what's
happening within the restaurantspace and bring some of that
tech back, they've, they've haddigital, digital shelf tags for
a long time, talk about dynamicpricing, we've got digital menu
boards already, but very fewrestaurants have implemented
digital shelf tags.
So you're now in a.
the Chipotle case, how do wechange those prices for those
(31:36):
sodas that are in the frontthere and those kinds of things.
especially in the States that,that require it.
Last question, Joe, where's,where is all of this going?
I know that's the 10 millionquestion and, where is all of
this going?
if you're to look out in yourcrystal ball and say by the end
of 2025, I think these are theone or two things that are going
to really hit and something thatwe're going to see lots of
adoption.
That is really, either lessadopted or, you talked a little
(31:58):
bit in our pre show about techconsolidation, maybe it's that,
but where is it going
Joe Guszkowski (32:03):
Yeah.
Oh, man.
It's such a tough question toanswer.
I think that At the pace that,voice AI is developing and the
investment that's getting behindit now.
I think by the end of this year,we're going to see one of the
biggest chains, really dig theirheels in on it and start pushing
(32:24):
it out quickly.
And I would imagine that withinfive to 10 years, it will be.
Like the default drive throughordering mode.
Jeremy Julian (32:33):
in phone ordering mode for that matter?
Joe Guszkowski (32:35):
for sure.
Yeah.
the benefits we talked about arejust too many to ignore.
if you run a fast food chain,and then there will always be
those concepts that don't do itand that's there.
the other thing, and we touchedon this, but there's going to
be, there's going to continue tobe a lot of consolidation on the
vendor side in, in the name of,integration and systems that
(33:00):
talk better.
because I think ultimatelythat's.
That's what it's going to taketo be a kind of modern,
restaurant, and to giveconsumers what they expect now.
given that they're so used to, ecommerce and how that works,
restaurants need to work alittle bit like that, and it's
(33:23):
going to require a lot of,streamlining on the backend.
So those are the two things.
One, voice AI.
The other voice is very easy tounderstand and imagine.
The other is a little bitmessier, but those are the two
things,
Jeremy Julian (33:36):
And it's the hardest thing to do in the world
that I live in, we've got over ahundred integrations to our
platform and every day it's aconstant conversation with our
partners to just make sure thatwe can serve customers where
they need to be served.
Joe, for those that aren'tconnected to you already and
want to subscribe to what it isthat you guys do, we're, you
talked about it early, but, givethem a place to connect and,
How, where should they connectwith you?
(33:57):
What, what's the best form ofengagement to, to support the
work that you guys are doing?
Joe Guszkowski (34:01):
Yeah.
We'll go to restaurant businessonline.
com.
you can see all the stuff we do.
You can, sign up for ournewsletters.
I send out a weekly technewsletter.
That's just a roundup of thenews.
I also do a column called techcheck.
About once a week, that's anopinion column and just my
thoughts on what's going on I'malso on linkedin pretty active
(34:22):
on there.
So feel free to connect and behappy to Connect with you there.
So yeah.
Jeremy Julian (34:28):
Awesome.
Joey, I appreciate you comingon.
And obviously if people arelistening to the show, they're
into the tech, they're intotrying to figure out, how do
they make their restaurantbetter?
And that's ultimately where, whythe show exists is to help
restaurants to make.
Better decisions with, with thetech solutions that they have
out there and to get informedabout the things that are going
on.
and I guess one last piece thatI would say is that your parent
company does have quite a fewtrade shows around, around.
(34:51):
Is there any particularly thatyou're planning on going to that
they might be able to, to see inperson this year?
Joe Guszkowski (34:56):
Yeah, we've got restaurant leadership conference
coming up in april I will bethere that's in phoenix and
that's always a really good one.
So yep.
I'll be there.
Jeremy Julian (35:05):
Awesome.
to our listeners, guys, we knowthat you guys got lots of
choices.
So guys for spending time withus.
If you haven't alreadysubscribed, please do Joe, thank
you so much.
And to our listeners, make it agreat day.
Thanks for listening to theRestaurant Technology Guys
podcast.
Visit www.
RestaurantTechnologyGuys.
com for tips, industry insights,and more to help you run your
(35:26):
restaurant better.
This is the RestaurantTechnology Guys podcast, helping
you run your restaurant better.
In today's episode, we arejoined by editor and writer from
one of the most popularrestaurant publications, Joe
(00:23):
Gaskowski.
Joe and I talk quite a bit aboutthe state of restaurants, the
state of casual dining, wherethings are going.
As well as what he sees in thefuture as he continues to talk
to restaurant leaders.
If you don't know me, my name isJeremy Julian.
I am the chief revenue officerfor custom business solutions,
where we sell the Northstarpoint of sale solution for
(00:44):
multiple unit restaurants.
Please check us out atcbsnorthstar.
com.
Jeremy Julian (00:50):
Welcome back to the Restaurant Technology Guys
podcast.
I thank everyone out there forjoining us.
As I say, each and every time Iknow you guys got lots of
choices.
So thank you guys for hangingwith us this week.
Today I am joined by somebodythat I am certain most of our
listeners have seen stuffpublished from Joe, but I'm
gonna let him introduce himselfhere for just a second and talk
a little bit about where he,where he's at now and a little
(01:13):
bit of his background, but Joe.
why don't you introduce yourselfto our listeners?
Like I said, do probably lessvideo than you do, than you do
writing and publishing on thatside, right?
Joe Guszkowski (01:20):
Yeah, much more of a writer.
but thanks for having me onJeremy.
I'm Joe Gaskowski, senior editorat Restaurant Business.
I cover technology and, casualdining chains.
And I've been doing that since,2020, summer of 2020.
So it's been an interesting fewyears,
Jeremy Julian (01:37):
especially the fact that you got pegged with
the casual dining space throughthe pandemic.
So that, that probably was, wasinteresting as well.
Joe Guszkowski (01:44):
Yeah, definitely.
It gets more interesting everyyear, it seems.
Jeremy Julian (01:47):
It does.
Absolutely.
for those that are not familiar,like I said, I'm certain most
are going to be familiar withyour guys publication, but, what
is it that, that you guys do youfocus on tech, but overall as a
brand, what is it that you guysdo just for those that, that may
not already be subscribers orsee the stuff that you guys put
out there.
Joe Guszkowski (02:02):
Yeah, we cover the entire industry from a
business perspective, from thebiggest chains on down to the
mom and pops.
we've been around for a longtime.
I don't know how long.
We used to be a magazine, and,now we're just digital, but,
yeah, we host some eventsthrough our parent company
Informa, and, we do podcasts, wedo newsletters, so all kinds of
(02:24):
stuff.
So yeah, restaurant businessonline.
com.
That's the website.
Jeremy Julian (02:29):
Awesome.
And, like I said, at the onset,when I did the intro, I know
lots of people have probablyread some of the stuff that you
put out there and definitely theorganization as a whole, we're
recording this in early, 2025,Joe, and I know you and I talked
about, what were some of thebiggest trends that you saw
happening within 2024?
cause that really talk aboutwhere it's going to carry into
2025, but as you look at it at amacro level, As it pertains to
(02:53):
technology, less so about brandsin general, but as it pertains
to technology, what are some ofthe biggest things that you saw
out there?
that you saw people doing welland some things that people
might've gone, I don't quiteunderstand why they're doing
this.
Joe Guszkowski (03:06):
Yeah.
I think the big one from lastyear was AI.
I think it was the, it wascertainly the thing that
everyone wanted to talk about,at our, we have a conference FS
tech in the fall and AI prettymuch, dominated the discussion
there.
and I can, it means so manythings and it's a very general
(03:27):
topic, I think what's beeninteresting about it is how it's
really being adopted up and downthe industry.
a lot of times with newtechnology.
It's the big guys that set thepace and set the curve.
And, that's certainly true withAI.
I think like the big chains aredoing the most with it, but it's
(03:52):
also being used very widelyamong small operators, which is
surprising and I think unusual.
And so I guess it speaks to themany different things that I can
do.
a single unit, mom and pop mayuse it to craft a, an email
marketing email or help themcome up with new menu items, a
(04:16):
large chain, like Taco Bellmight use it to automate the
drive through, so it's veryflexible in what it can do.
And everyone.
Seems to be extremely interestedin, implementing it somehow.
and so that was, when I thinkback on last year, that was the
theme that ran through the yearand I'm sure we'll.
(04:36):
We'll continue, into this year.
some of the other things, I didlike a roundup at the end of the
year, touching on different, thetrends, one of the things that
came up in 2024 was dynamicpricing.
Which had a kind of a up anddown year, starting with, the
Wendy's saying they were goingto use it and getting a bunch of
(04:56):
backlash.
And I think there's a lot ofdebate over, the future of that
and, where that's going to go.
I'd be happy to get into thatwith you.
If you want to talk about that alittle, I don't know what your
feelings are on dynamic pricing.
Jeremy Julian (05:10):
Yeah, no, I'd love to talk a little bit about
that.
Before we jump there real quick,you talked a lot about AI.
I agree with you.
There's not a podcast that Ithink I've done in the last 18
months that hasn't had AImentioned in some way, shape or
form.
but you talked about some of theways that you see people using.
Is there anywhere else that yousee it getting adopted?
I agree with you fullyautomating the drive through
creating marketing campaigns,really, I don't say low bar
(05:32):
stuff, but good low bar stuffthat'll allow people.
helping with social media posts,those kinds of things.
Are there any other areas thatyou've seen people adopting AI
because AI is so broad that youthink is either underutilized
where you're like, Oh, theseguys really nailed it with AI.
And I think more people need toknow about it in order to
enhance their brand and do thethings that they might want to
(05:52):
do.
Joe Guszkowski (05:53):
Yeah, actually I think, The place where AI is
being used the most is probablyin the back of house for things
like inventory and salesforecasting and scheduling and
stuff like that.
That's actually where it'sprobably the most mature and the
easiest to implement at thispoint, because you have the data
(06:15):
there.
To allow it to do its thing.
so yeah, that's, that is, thesexy stuff is like the voice AI
and things like that, but that'sprobably a long way off from
being totally mature.
So yeah.
Jeremy Julian (06:27):
I agree.
I think taking those big datasets that we have,'cause it,
most of our listeners know I, Iwork in the point of sale
industry and, we produce so muchdata, but being able to analyze
it for so long was so hard.
But now with ai, you can putthese things in these models,
whether that's how much chickendo I need to prep for tomorrow
versus how much chicken do Ineed to order for tomorrow, and
what does that look like?
What is, what are my salestrends?
(06:48):
Those things used to take.
Days to generate these reportsand figure out how to do them.
Now with AI, it can get spit outpretty quickly to make
discernible differences withinthe lives of your business.
And quite honestly, drive someprofitability.
Joe Guszkowski (07:01):
Yeah.
It seems to be a very goodpredictor and it's, the
predictive side is well, along,and the generative side is
what's still coming into being
Jeremy Julian (07:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I'd love to, before weget done, talk a little bit
about the voice AI, becausewe've seen some successes and
some failures, but before we gothere, I.
Actually, just last week was ona podcast or I don't even know
if it was a webcast that, SeanWalsh out of, out of San Diego
put on about dynamic pricingwith the former, CEO juicer
talking about it.
(07:31):
And so I guess.
For our listeners lived under arock and didn't see all the
press and didn't see everythingthat was going on with dynamic
pricing.
Can you explain what dynamicpricing is?
Cause I, I have an opinion forsure.
And I think restaurants havebeen doing dynamic pricing
forever.
It's just for whatever reason,people got all up in arms when
Wendy's just said they weregoing to.
everybody thinks of it as surgepricing.
(07:52):
And so I have some opinions, butI'd love for you to define at
least, what do you think of asdynamic pricing when you may
mention it?
Joe Guszkowski (07:59):
Yeah, quite simply, I think it's just the
adjusting of your prices, basedon demand at any given time.
And, typically that's beingsupported by some kind of
software and maybe some AI.
and, I think it's, it.
Like you said, it's actuallybeen happening for a long time.
(08:19):
The original sort of dynamicpricing is happy hour.
Everyone likes to say, and sonow you're doing happy hour, but
you can do it throughout the daybased on whether you're busy or
not.
And I think it's a, I think it'slike a really smart idea.
I think it's got, it's just gotsome perception issues.
Jeremy Julian (08:34):
And I don't understand why.
So I, on the podcast that I wason last week that I was
recording last week, I took atrip during the holidays with my
family and we drove, a thousandmiles for the family deal.
It was a long trip, but it wasgood.
Did some sightseeing on the way,but, Me being not so much of a
planner and a little bit of arenegade.
I just chose to get gas when Ichose to get gas.
(08:56):
And I happened to get gas in aspot where there was no gas a
hundred miles either way.
So I paid almost 7 for a gallonof gas because there was no gas
a hundred miles either way.
And I would have run out of gashad I not gone that well at the
end of the day, does that gasstation owner deserve to get an
extra 4 a gallon for gas becausehe just happened to put a gas
(09:18):
station.
In this spot, I think he doesand I don't quite understand why
There's this mentality of theconsumers.
You don't have to order it Weall know that the third party
delivery providers and we'lltalk a little bit about them in
a little bit But the third partydelivery providers don't charge
the same price 99 times out of100 as you would if I walked
into the door So why is it anydifferent when i'm coming
(09:40):
through the drive thru on a busyfriday night?
to be able to do that other thanthe fact that technology now
allows us to do that and iscapable of doing that so that's
I guess my first opinion Thesecond side of it is we also
take advantage of it Nobody everwants to talk about the fact
that I got happy hour pricingthat they didn't charge me the
proper amount for this vodkathat I was drinking that I got
(10:01):
top shelf, but I got charged thewell vodka price nobody wants to
talk about that Everybody onlywants to talk about the fact
that my price might go up on,you know a busy night I'd love
to, I'd love to, hear yourthoughts on that, Joe.
Joe Guszkowski (10:12):
at the worst possible time last year because
consumers were so focused onprice, especially at restaurants
that the prospect of arestaurant actually raising
prices at certain times, justdidn't sit right with them.
I don't think they thought aboutthe opposite, Oh, you could
actually get a better deal too.
(10:34):
And also the fact that we'retalking about very sort of
surgical pricing changes.
this isn't surge pricing it's.
maybe cents, maybe a dollar, SoI think the perception was that
restaurants are trying to likeprice gouge or something, and
that just blew up becauseconsumers were so sensitive.
(10:57):
I think it will eventually endup happening.
And like you said, it alreadyis, and places are using it to
seemingly.
Great success, but customers aregoing to have to get used to it
and they have gotten used to itin other industries.
So I see no reason why theywon't for restaurants.
It was just a tough, it's goingto be a little bit rocky,
especially now.
Jeremy Julian (11:16):
and the funny thing is we have all, I've been
working in this space for over25 years.
There's the opposite effect ofI'm trying to drive business
between two and five.
Sonic has always had this, happyhour for their slushies before
the peak hours and after theirpeak hours to drive that
behavior.
So to me, Dynamic pricing isdynamic based on the volume
(11:37):
that's coming into therestaurant.
So it may mean that slushie isat full price, but at 10 PM it's
at a dollar less or at 2 PM itmight be at a dollar less.
not during the lunch period, notduring the dinner period.
And why do you think that thepress didn't pick up on that?
you happen to live in the pressworld, but why did the press not
pick up on it, I think it wasthe wall street journal or the
New York times that was the bigone that kind of roasted the
(11:58):
Wendy's group, but why do youthink that the press?
Picked up on only the fact thatwe were going to increase
pricing and didn't consider theopposite
Joe Guszkowski (12:05):
That is a great question.
And it gets into the mediaindustry and what, our issues
are these days.
But, To put it simply likepublications need readers and
readers will respond to aheadline that says, Wendy's is
going to do surge pricing, muchmore than the actual nuanced
truth of the matter.
so I, I think that's probablyit, outrage and anger fuels a
(12:28):
lot of, attention and much moreso than the actual nitty gritty
of the
Jeremy Julian (12:36):
of what's really happening.
yeah, it was, and quite frankly,it was unfortunate from my
perspective, because I do see itas an opportunity for
restaurants to be moresuccessful in the times that
they can be more successful.
And, the other piece I would askJoe is in the world of
restaurant tech, a lot of peopleput a lot of point solutions out
there.
I don't think dynamic pricingand or surge pricing, whatever
(12:59):
you want to call it, was reallysomething that was capable with
some of the legacy systems thatwere out there.
and I guess I would ask you yourthoughts on, where technology is
at to be able to enhance thesethings and truly make these
changes, because I think.
All too often people have beenlimited by their previous
choices, whether it's the pointsolution that they have in house
(13:20):
or even their point of sale thatdoesn't allow them for the
capability to be flexible, tohave these things change during
the day.
Do you think that's why it'ssomething that's capable again,
even hotels, it was, it's mostlyweb, and you can change web a
lot easier than you can changein store systems.
And so a web order is coming infor these hotels or the
airlines, They've got reallylegacy tech in the airlines.
(13:42):
We saw Southwest and AmericanAirlines a couple of years ago
go down and really kill theirbrand.
But the online orders would beable to do that.
But in restaurants, they'vealways had a lot of them have
store centric systems that don'thave that capability.
I see that as a, as people aremigrating to newer systems, it
certainly gives them thecapability to, to do that.
Is that something that you'reseeing with the brands that
(14:02):
you're talking to?
Joe Guszkowski (14:03):
absolutely.
I think every tech supplierwants to become more integrated
and more connected.
And, I've seen a lot ofrestaurants overhauling their
entire stack in the name ofIntegration, and so that should
create opportunities to do morethings digitally, that,
(14:24):
integrates better with theoverall operation.
where prices are reflected,across every interface, menus
are matched across all yourtouch points, et cetera.
yeah, I think a dynamic pricingshould become easier to do when
you have a system that's set up.
Jeremy Julian (14:43):
Yep.
Yeah.
And I think when I talk withCMOs and different marketing
groups around the country, it'slike one of their biggest pain
points is they want to come outwith a campaign next week and it
takes weeks for them to get allof their systems updated.
And so to your point, Being ableto take advantage of what you
talked about earlier with AI, aswell as some of this new dynamic
pricing pieces, it's next toimpossible without systems that
are talking to each other,because you just have to have so
(15:05):
much human capital to be able togo deploy it versus some of the
newer stuff that's out there.
What else, you talked aboutvoice AI, Joe, where have you
seen that kind of hitting andwhat are your thoughts on voice
AI?
Because that is another piece ofthe puzzle.
We've seen some big brands thathave talked about doing it for
the drive through some peoplethat have talked about doing it
for their, for the dining room,talk to me a little bit about
what does that even mean?
(15:25):
and I have my opinion on it.
We've done a little bit ofintegration with some different
providers for it.
and I think, I think it has alot of promise, but I'd love
kind of your thoughts from amacro level at the industry
level.
Joe Guszkowski (15:35):
Yeah, I would say like the place you're most
likely to encounter a voice AIbot would be when you like call
a restaurant to order a pizza.
I think that's the place that'sbeing most quickly adopted.
And I don't want to put a numberout there, but I think it's
(15:55):
becoming much more common.
and, the employee no longer hasto answer the phone, et cetera,
et cetera.
the drive through is the nextplace that I think this is going
to happen.
And this is.
certainly picking up.
we're seeing some of the biggestchains doing it now.
Taco Bell, notably.
I know McDonald's is looking atit, trying to figure it out.
(16:17):
that raises a lot moredifficulties than the phone.
you have, ambient noise thatcreates issues.
and you have a lot higher volumetoo in the drive thru.
Needless to say for fast food.
but I think this year, I thinkwe're going to continue to see
more of that.
And I would imagine that thetechnology, improves as AI is
(16:40):
intended to do.
Gets, learns and gets better.
Jeremy Julian (16:43):
better as time goes on.
That to me is the big thing thatI, so I was just on with, I just
recorded a podcast with the CEOof Donato's pizza.
and he and I were talking about,so pizza, he's a former Domino's
guy and has been in the pizzaspace for a lot of his career.
And he and I were just talkingthrough a lot of that for those
that are naysayers and say,there's two pieces of.
AI that oftentimes head, it'sOh, you're just replacing,
(17:06):
you're trying to get rid of allof the employees that are in the
space, for, and then there's thesecond side of it is I don't
want to get in that infiniteloop where I have to scream
representative at the top of mylungs, 14 times to get, 14
times, to get what I'm lookingfor, help me understand what,
What would you say to thosepeople that are out there that
are listening to this going,have no idea, they have no idea
how much it's grown and how wellit's actually being adopted and
(17:30):
how, quite frankly, even theguests are happier with it
oftentimes than they are evenwhen talking with the staff
member.
Joe Guszkowski (17:37):
Yeah.
on the labor side, I think youhave to remember that
restaurants have a laborproblem.
And I think that is the impetusbehind adopting some of this AI.
but again, it's new, it'snuanced.
It's not, it's certainly not,we're going to replace every
employee in the restaurant.
I think what restaurants willsay is we put the AI in the
drive thru and then that drivethru order taker can do other
(18:01):
things that are a little, maybea little more rewarding and more
focused on the guests and thehospitality.
I've heard some chains say thatthey've been able to trim their
overall labor hours a littlebit, basically to pay for the
technology, but they're notgoing down to.
one person in the restaurant oranything that extreme.
(18:23):
And I don't think that's theultimate goal.
I think it's, it's to, it willhave numerous benefits, not only
labor, and that I guess getsinto the customer side, I think
there will always be a subset ofcustomers that just want to
order from a person.
but I think the AI is gettingbetter.
(18:44):
And one thing that you could sayfor the AI is that it's never
going to be in a bad mood.
never going
Jeremy Julian (18:51):
shows up for work.
Joe Guszkowski (18:53):
exactly, it's going to be there.
it's going to be prompt and, I'msure we've all dealt with.
Drive through employees who justseem like they don't want to be
there and that's not niceeither.
I think There's gonna be somefrustrations Here in the early
goings and there's always like Isaid, there's gonna be people
(19:14):
who don't want to use it And,and that's fine, but there are
some, there are benefits to ittoo, that maybe don't get talked
about as much.
Jeremy Julian (19:21):
and I think in general, one of the things that
I heard a CEO say, and itactually at the show you talked
about FS tech.
I think that the CTO of TacoBell had talked about it's hard
to hire people and when they gethired, they don't want to work
that drive through job becausethat drive through job is one of
the hardest jobs in quickservice to operate in the phone
operators at a time.
(19:41):
Pizza place is also one of thehardest jobs.
Delivery driver is not a hugechallenge to get.
Even pizza maker is not a hugechallenge to get at a pizza
place.
the people that are working theline at Taco Bell, not a, not as
hard to staff versus the drivethru that is having to deal with
the order and the taking paymentand the whole nine yards.
It's just, it's a tough deal.
I was just at a brand yesterdayhaving lunch and the guy that
(20:02):
was taking my order at thecounter.
Was also trying to deal with thedrive through and it was just,
it was a tough situation.
And so I think all too oftenit's hard to staff that
position.
And even if you do find somebodythat can staff it, you don't
always get the best, teammember.
And so being able to figure outhow to automate some of that, is
huge.
And then repurpose that labor tosomething that they're going to
do well, that's going to addvalue versus something that
(20:24):
might not add as much value.
The other thing that I hear fromAI and really the advent of
digital ordering and kiosks andthings like that.
Is it always asks for theupsell?
It always does what you ask itfor.
It always asks if you want todrink without it, you want to
add fries.
You want to do this, you want todo that.
Whereas a human, you can trainthem and train them and train
them.
And sometimes they do, andsometimes they don't.
And so making sure that they dothat.
Joe Guszkowski (20:47):
Yes.
Yeah.
That's one of the many benefitsthat, AI is promising here is
that not only is it maybe goingto save you some money, but it's
also going to increase yourrevenue because it always asks
for the upsell.
pretty much all the chains thathave used it have said something
like that.
Jeremy Julian (21:03):
Yeah, no, I was just at Portillo's.
There's a Portillo's that openednear me, in grapevine, Texas.
And, it upsold me.
It upsold my son and I, to,they're not using voice AI.
It was a kiosk, but it was samekind of idea.
And it was one of those thingsthat I didn't realize.
Cause I'm, I it's the firstdigital it's their digital kind
of store.
And it was quite frankly, it wasa very good experience for me as
(21:23):
a guest, but it was differentthan my traditional Portillo's
experience.
And then I looked at my receiptafterwards.
I was like, I didn't know I gotthe large fries and it had
upsold me to the large fries.
Cause my kid was ringing up onthe kiosk.
And again, I wasn't, I takeaccountability for that because
it was my choice to go and do itdigitally, they would allow me
to go to the front and withmost, with most, even in the
(21:44):
voice AI space, they haveoperator assisted, something
there.
so I'm going to pivot realquick.
You talked about some thirdparty, a little bit earlier.
Where do you see third partytrending?
a lot of people rush to getthird party.
I think, just before you gotinto the space, I would say
that, especially even in casualdining, there was a lot fewer
that were doing third partydelivery with the pandemic,
everybody rushed to get on UberEats and DoorDash and Grubhub
(22:07):
and all of the differentplatforms.
And as it started to normalize,I.
See more and more press aboutpeople trying to figure out what
is third part?
Is it additive?
Is it taken away different?
talk to me a little bit aboutthe landscape of third party and
where do you see it at today?
the beginning of 2025 and wheredo you see it going?
Joe Guszkowski (22:25):
Yeah.
it's gonna, it continues to be asomething that you just can't
really ignore as a restaurantbecause it continues growing
and, against all odds, customerscontinue to be willing to use it
and pay for it.
Jeremy Julian (22:40):
But they complain about adding 10 cents to my, my,
my double Wendy's burger, butthey're going to pay an extra 3
to get a door dash.
Sorry.
I don't mean to interrupt you,but it's like, it doesn't make
any sense to me, but, they'reconsumers and that's the way it
works.
Joe Guszkowski (22:51):
yeah, it's a bit of a
Jeremy Julian (22:53):
huh.
Joe Guszkowski (22:53):
but, I think as with a lot of technology that
restaurants quickly adoptedduring the pandemic and didn't
really think about much.
I think brands are getting muchmore strategic and they need to
be thinking much morestrategically about how they use
third party and, what it's forand I think there are different
(23:14):
ways to look at it.
some just look at it as amarketing channel, you get,
maybe you can attract some firsttime users that way and
hopefully, convert them to orderfirst party, which is hard.
but it's, it can also be a saleschannel.
you are likely to charge extraon third party to make the
margins better.
(23:34):
And, so it could be, at the endof the day is similar to a, an
in store sale, but I think it,you need as a restaurant, you
need to be thinking about whatyou want to.
to do for you.
You can't just be out there onthe third parties.
And it's almost like a wholeseparate line of business that
you need someone to be focusedon.
And it's very, it's complicatedand it's always changing.
(23:56):
now, one of the things the appsare doing is really leaning into
the discounts and promotions andthey want restaurants to buy
into this stuff and offer.
buy one, get ones, et cetera, etcetera.
And so that's a whole notherline in your formula that you
need to be aware of.
So it's going to require morefocus, from restaurants now that
(24:17):
things have normalized a little.
Jeremy Julian (24:18):
and I think that they need to resource it to your
point.
They need to resource somebodythat's going to manage it.
I was just dealing with a brandhere locally who back to your
couponing, they'd had whateverit was, free, 5 off or whatever.
And they actually had a problemwith the taxes cause it was
taking the.
5 off and taxing on the netamount, not on the gross amount.
And, so even little things likethat, we've had some guests on
(24:40):
before, the founder of loop AI,who does a whole bunch of
reconciliation.
Cause you got to deal with thereconciliation side of it.
There's another group that hasbeen on the show before dealing
with dispute management and didthe guests really get that?
And so the board.
I would agree with you that itis not something you can just
put your head in the sand andignore, so you do have to
(25:00):
resource it, and it is a verydifferent business model.
No different than takeout ordelivery is a different business
model.
every one of these third party.
Partners, you've got to havestaffing.
You've got to have somebody todeal with the accounting side of
it.
You've got to have packaging,you've got to have products.
You've got to, you've got to dopricing.
You've got to make sure you dealwith all of that stuff.
So I love that.
And for those that kind ofeither put their head in the
(25:22):
sand or just launched it andsaid, I hope and pray that it
works.
I would encourage you all toconsider some of the stuff that
Joe had talked about, because Ithink it's something.
That, that really needs to beresourced appropriately because
it can be a channel that cangrow your sales if done
properly.
It can also hit your brand, hurtyour brand significantly if you
don't do it properly.
or it can hurt you financiallyif you're not managing the
(25:43):
financial side of it.
The last thread I wanted to godown, Joe, is just, where do you
see, we've talked a lot about AIand how it's enhancing back of
the house.
It's enhancing front of thehouse for voice and quick serve,
but I know you also cover thecasual dining space, which
obviously from a total, chainbusiness perspective is a lot
smaller market, a lot less.
Units, but where do you seetechnology?
(26:04):
Not only enhancing, but, reallyaccelerating casual dining's
gotten punched in the mouth thelast 18 months, it's been hard.
There's been a lot ofbankruptcies.
There's been a lot of pain andsuffering in the casual dining
space, but some are doing itreally well.
some are doing it well, and somehave figured it out and some are
using technology to theiradvantage to get a leg up on
(26:25):
their competition, help ourlisteners that.
Are out there to understand whatthose things are.
you know what those things areout there and, what should they
be considering?
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(27:06):
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Joe Guszkowski (27:11):
Yeah, I think in casual dining tech can really
help with that sort of end ofmeal friction point of the bill
paying the check.
and a lot of places now you'llsee have the tablet on the table
where you can pay.
this could also be accomplishedjust through a QR code on the
receipt that allow you to scanit with your phone and pay and
(27:35):
leave.
I think generally casual diningwants to get faster and act more
like a Almost like a fast,casual experience where you
could get in and out in areasonable time.
And I think tech is going tohave to be part of that.
stuff at the table, evenordering on your phone or on a
(27:57):
tablet, although I know, like Ipersonally don't like that,
places are going to offer thattoo.
The other side is more workingin the background with, customer
data.
Casual dining, you don't see alot of casual dining loyalty
programs just less frequentoccasions.
Starbucks, people go toStarbucks every
Jeremy Julian (28:17):
Yep.
Joe Guszkowski (28:17):
natural dining chain.
You might go twice a year, butthere are brands now that are
testing loyalty programs andlooking to make use of that data
to drive people in.
And that's a novel idea for thatsegment.
so that's another, a big areaof.
(28:37):
where technology I think isgoing to have an impact for full
service.
Jeremy Julian (28:41):
Yeah, one other thing that I'd love your opinion
on Joe is we've talked to acouple different vendors that
are trying to help with some ofthe workforce management in
casual dining.
We've all been at the propertywhere our.
our drink hasn't been refilledor we're waiting for our check
and we can't, there's alwaysfriction points.
it's my food has taken too long.
It took too long for somebody toget me a drink.
It took too, I wanted to reordera drink or I wanted to order
(29:03):
dessert.
I couldn't order dessert.
Now I got to go get to themovie.
So to me, you talked about boththe ordering and payment
process.
Definitely huge there.
But in the sequences of service,we've seen some different,
vision AI type companies comingaround to see what's going on
within the dining room.
And try and prompt.
Have you seen any of that?
Have you seen anybody adoptingthat?
I've seen the tech.
I haven't necessarily seen anycase studies yet, but it's
(29:26):
cameras that are around thatsay.
You need to go refill the drinkat table 12.
They should be in that section.
They should be doing it at table12, but it's computers now
prompting them to make sure thatthey get table 12 drink refilled
and an opportunity to upsell andor to get them another beer or
whatnot.
Joe Guszkowski (29:45):
Yeah.
So I've heard of this technologyand I have not seen it
implemented or I've not talkedto anyone who's implemented it,
but we were just actuallytalking, yesterday about
basically the idea of cameras inrestaurants and how that's
becoming a thing now, both inthe back of house and the dining
room.
Like you said, I think that's.
(30:06):
Something that I probably goingto look into this year and if I
could find, an example ofsomeone, if you're out there
listening, using cameras, likethe way Jeremy just described to
prompt employees.
that's a fascinating, area oftech that is certainly coming
and, but I don't know if we'veseen a lot of, examples of it
(30:26):
yet.
Jeremy Julian (30:27):
Yeah, no.
And the other one on that,vision AI pieces, food quality,
making sure that the right itemsget prepared.
And we've seen a couple ofdifferent companies.
I know there was some peoplethat, that were at, FSTech, you
guys trade show that were there.
I'm heading to NRF this week,and that's a retail show, but,
I'm going to go put my feet onthe ground and go see what's
going on in the retail space.
Cause they've always got robotsand things that are trying to
(30:47):
get in and help.
Joe Guszkowski (30:49):
step ahead of us, aren't they?
Jeremy Julian (30:50):
That's part of why I go to NRF every year is
for those that don't go to NRFor, big brands for sure.
And a lot of the big brands,we'll run into McDonald's and
Chick fil A and Taco Bell andsome of those guys, they'll have
a lot of their people there.
But, some of the smaller brands,it's in New York city, it's
always in January, butretailers, the volume that they
do, they've always got somedifferent things that are
interesting.
And I always try and go and talkto those different providers to
(31:12):
figure out what the Walmart'sand the targets and the,
Costco's are doing and how canthat relate back to what's
happening within the restaurantspace and bring some of that
tech back, they've, they've haddigital, digital shelf tags for
a long time, talk about dynamicpricing, we've got digital menu
boards already, but very fewrestaurants have implemented
digital shelf tags.
So you're now in a.
the Chipotle case, how do wechange those prices for those
(31:36):
sodas that are in the frontthere and those kinds of things.
especially in the States that,that require it.
Last question, Joe, where's,where is all of this going?
I know that's the 10 millionquestion and, where is all of
this going?
if you're to look out in yourcrystal ball and say by the end
of 2025, I think these are theone or two things that are going
to really hit and something thatwe're going to see lots of
adoption.
That is really, either lessadopted or, you talked a little
(31:58):
bit in our pre show about techconsolidation, maybe it's that,
but where is it going
Joe Guszkowski (32:03):
Yeah.
Oh, man.
It's such a tough question toanswer.
I think that At the pace that,voice AI is developing and the
investment that's getting behindit now.
I think by the end of this year,we're going to see one of the
biggest chains, really dig theirheels in on it and start pushing
(32:24):
it out quickly.
And I would imagine that withinfive to 10 years, it will be.
Like the default drive throughordering mode.
Jeremy Julian (32:33):
in phone ordering mode for that matter?
Joe Guszkowski (32:35):
for sure.
Yeah.
the benefits we talked about arejust too many to ignore.
if you run a fast food chain,and then there will always be
those concepts that don't do itand that's there.
the other thing, and we touchedon this, but there's going to
be, there's going to continue tobe a lot of consolidation on the
vendor side in, in the name of,integration and systems that
(33:00):
talk better.
because I think ultimatelythat's.
That's what it's going to taketo be a kind of modern,
restaurant, and to giveconsumers what they expect now.
given that they're so used to, ecommerce and how that works,
restaurants need to work alittle bit like that, and it's
(33:23):
going to require a lot of,streamlining on the backend.
So those are the two things.
One, voice AI.
The other voice is very easy tounderstand and imagine.
The other is a little bitmessier, but those are the two
things,
Jeremy Julian (33:36):
And it's the hardest thing to do in the world
that I live in, we've got over ahundred integrations to our
platform and every day it's aconstant conversation with our
partners to just make sure thatwe can serve customers where
they need to be served.
Joe, for those that aren'tconnected to you already and
want to subscribe to what it isthat you guys do, we're, you
talked about it early, but, givethem a place to connect and,
How, where should they connectwith you?
(33:57):
What, what's the best form ofengagement to, to support the
work that you guys are doing?
Joe Guszkowski (34:01):
Yeah.
We'll go to restaurant businessonline.
com.
you can see all the stuff we do.
You can, sign up for ournewsletters.
I send out a weekly technewsletter.
That's just a roundup of thenews.
I also do a column called techcheck.
About once a week, that's anopinion column and just my
thoughts on what's going on I'malso on linkedin pretty active
(34:22):
on there.
So feel free to connect and behappy to Connect with you there.
So yeah.
Jeremy Julian (34:28):
Awesome.
Joey, I appreciate you comingon.
And obviously if people arelistening to the show, they're
into the tech, they're intotrying to figure out, how do
they make their restaurantbetter?
And that's ultimately where, whythe show exists is to help
restaurants to make.
Better decisions with, with thetech solutions that they have
out there and to get informedabout the things that are going
on.
and I guess one last piece thatI would say is that your parent
company does have quite a fewtrade shows around, around.
(34:51):
Is there any particularly thatyou're planning on going to that
they might be able to, to see inperson this year?
Joe Guszkowski (34:56):
Yeah, we've got restaurant leadership conference
coming up in april I will bethere that's in phoenix and
that's always a really good one.
So yep.
I'll be there.
Jeremy Julian (35:05):
Awesome.
to our listeners, guys, we knowthat you guys got lots of
choices.
So guys for spending time withus.
If you haven't alreadysubscribed, please do Joe, thank
you so much.
And to our listeners, make it agreat day.
Thanks for listening to theRestaurant Technology Guys
podcast.
Visit www.
RestaurantTechnologyGuys.
com for tips, industry insights,and more to help you run your
(35:26):
restaurant better.
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