January 13, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode of the Restaurant Technology Guys Podcast, host Jeremy Julian talks with Rishabh, a serial entrepreneur aiming to transform the beverage industry with his innovative startup, Sidework. The discussion delves into the current challenges faced by the beverage sector, especially in coffee shops and bars dealing with complex drink orders. Rishabh explains how Sidework's agnostic ingredient dispensing system simplifies and speeds up the preparation process, improves accuracy, and enhances both barista and customer experiences. The episode also explores the broader potential of this technology in various settings, including under-invested aspects of the restaurant industry and non-traditional locations. The conversation underscores the immense opportunity for beverage-focused technology to significantly boost margins and operational efficiency.
00:00 Sidework
00:56 Introduction and Episode Overview
01:19 Guest Introduction: Rishabh Background
02:48 Introducing Sidework: Revolutionizing Beverage Dispensing
04:14 Challenges and Opportunities in Restaurant Technology
11:27 The Evolution of Beverage Complexity
17:24 How Sidework Enhances Efficiency
22:39 Addressing Concerns About Automation
27:35 Expanding Beverage Menus and Non-Traditional Environments
36:20 Conclusion and Contact Information
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
This is the RestaurantTechnology Guys podcast.
Helping you run your restaurantbetter.
Jeremy (00:09):
In today's episode, we are joined by a multiple time
founder who is trying to changethe game of beverages.
He and I get into depth as tothe problem that the beverage
industry has created as well ashow he and his co-founders are
solving for it.
I was blown away to the pointthat I was sharing it with my
family and my kids that evening.
(00:29):
And they were like, how do we gofigure this out and support this
piece of technology that Igenuinely think.
Is going to change the world ofbeverages.
So if you've got a beverageprogram and want to enhance it,
Keep listening to the episode.
If you've always wanted to addbeverages, whether that's
alcohol, non-alcohol coffee.
Check out the show.
If you don't know me, my name isJeremy Julian.
(00:51):
I am the chief revenue officerfor custom business solutions.
We Sell the north star point ofsale solution for multiple
units.
if you don't know who we are,check us www.Cbsnorthstar.com
and now onto the episode.
Welcome back to the restauranttechnology guys podcast.
I think everyone out there forjoining us today is going to be
(01:12):
a fun episode because, I love,and you guys have heard this
long time listeners have heardthis, I love listening to
entrepreneurs talk about, someproblem that they found out in
the space because, it's amazinghow much new technology comes
out in the restaurant spaceevery day.
And today we're going to get toexpose another one of those new
pieces of technology.
Rishabh, why don't you introduceyourself a before we jump into
kind of side work and what, Whatproblem you're trying to solve
(01:34):
in the space, but, where did youcome from A little bit of
background for our listeners,that may not be familiar with
what it is that you guys havebeen doing.
Rishabh Kewalramani (01:41):
Of course.
Thanks for having me.
First off.
I grew up outside of Pittsburgh,and have always been a builder
at heart.
I've got a couple co foundersthat I've known since 5th or 6th
grade.
and we were like the classickids in the back of the
classroom.
I remember Mrs Hoodman's class,6th grade science class.
We were working on.
I think the project of thesemester there was trying to
(02:04):
turn the kinetic energy ofoceans into potential energy.
Turns out that doesn't work thatwell, but I've been pretty much
building ever since.
Went to school at the Universityof Michigan.
graduated, went right intohospitality and hospitality
technology at another startup,got addicted to both building
companies and specificallybuilding companies for the
hospitality space.
(02:25):
And it's been doing it for myentire career.
Jeremy (02:28):
I love that.
and it's always fun when you cantake those learnings from the
different places that, that youhad been, why don't you
introduce your new project andwhere you guys are at today?
Cause I think, honestly, I'mexcited to get into the
conversation cause I've beendoing this close to 30 years in
the restaurant tech space.
And, there's not a whole lot ofstuff like what you're building
out there.
And so I love, I.
Every time I turn around, I'mlike, there can't be another
(02:49):
person that's doing somethingelse in this space.
It's gotta have all been figuredout.
But but at the end of the day, Ithink that you've got something
that's pretty unique and I wantour listeners to hear about it.
Rishabh Kewalramani (02:57):
Appreciate that.
Yeah.
at Sidework, we built theworld's first agnostic
ingredient dispensing system.
For highly complex beverages.
That's a lot of words for afairly simple concept.
So if any of your listeners areStarbucks drinkers, you're
Duncan drinkers, and they'regetting an ice brown sugar,
(03:17):
shaken espresso with a couple ofpumps of this and almond milk,
we take that drink and we makeit in less than 10 seconds with
a dispenser.
and basically reduce the lift onbaristas and drive top lines for
beverages for all sorts ofbusinesses.
Jeremy (03:33):
talk me through why that was where you guys went.
'cause that seems like a verycomplex problem to solve.
and I love that you guys aresolving it.
And again, I a hundred percentagree with you, and I think it's
gonna be one of those thingsthat.
30 years from now, we're goingto be like, how did anybody
stand there and really makethese drinks, especially for
some of those things.
But talk me through even theideation process of where this
came from.
Rishabh Kewalramani (03:53):
Yeah, it's one of those things.
It's like a grassroots naturalstory.
like I said, I started my careerin hospitality technology at a
company called gather.
We were making event managementsoftware.
So if you were restaurant, youwant to book out your private
room, managing the menus forthat private event, all that
stuff.
And while we were there, we hadan exit event.
We sold to Vista equitypartners.
(04:14):
But a couple things.
stuck with me first, I think youtalked about earlier how people
are constantly building forrestaurants.
I agree with that, but I alsothink that restaurants are very
under invested in, especiallywhen it comes to like top tier,
high quality technology.
And what I mean by that is.
If you look at like the venturecapital landscape or the general
(04:36):
financial institutions, thegoing saying is restaurants are
bad business, low margins, badbusiness, don't invest in
restaurants unless you like,really love it.
All of the cliches aroundrestaurants is a business in
general.
And if you look at the data oninvestment in restaurants,
especially as it relates toautomation and high, Tech
investments, they lag far behindindustries like manufacturing,
(05:00):
transportation, energy, so onand so forth.
But they're like central to thesocial fabric of what we do.
We celebrate our moments there.
We do they are central to, toeverything that we are.
And so while I was at gather, Igot a little bit addicted and a
little bit of a chip of myshoulder being like, I don't
think restaurants have to be badbusiness.
I think if we invest in themand.
(05:22):
Had the best technology talent.
The technology is built, sendingrocket ships space or like
controlling Amazon warehouse.
If we had that, we can make itbetter business and we can make
the people who run thosebusinesses happier, enjoy things
more.
And so that was the.
The business white space that wesaw the second part of the story
(05:43):
is a little bit more naturalwhile I was working in gather me
and one of the co founders who Imentioned, one of the people I
grew up with, one of thesmartest people I know, we got
bartending licenses.
We started becoming bartenders.
We got certificates and, Onething led to another and we
started building a cocktaildispenser as a passion project
and that snowballed into wherewe're at today, which is,
(06:05):
delivering complex drinks acrossthe country for a variety of
brands,
Jeremy (06:09):
Yeah, that's, that's amazing.
Why do you think thatrestaurants are so underinvested
in?
Is it, it's an interestingtheory and I say it often on the
show, restaurants are the secondlargest employer in the United
States behind the government.
And so more people work inrestaurants, more people have
gotten a startup in restaurants,more people have made their way
into restaurants.
And quite frankly, I think moreyouth should work in restaurants
(06:32):
because they'd have to deal withthe public more and they'd
probably be better humans.
But in general.
There, there are a very largepercentage of the population and
there's so few of them that,that haven't figured out when
you look at some of the otherareas of our lives, medical,
they've just gotten so muchinvestment, but restaurants on
the other hand are not, why doyou think that is?
Rishabh Kewalramani (06:50):
I think it's one big reason at the unit
level, the best restaurants orthe best coffee shops are
netting a 20 percent margin.
If you compare that to softwarecompanies, I come from a
technology world.
So when it when a venturecapitalist looking and making an
investment, you're You arecomparing it to things that you
know, and when you look atsoftware companies, and I think
(07:12):
like the best example of this isthe heyday of Google and Google
Ads is an 80% margin product,easily scalable, not physical.
And so like you can take thatand if you don't look any deeper
with any nuance, it could be 20%versus 80%.
Why would I ever park my moneyin the 20%, proposition.
But the reason I think that'swrong, and I think the reason
(07:33):
why we've got.
12 million raised and morecoming is because of what you
just said.
You've got to add best casescenario, 20 percent margin
category.
The average is hovering aroundeight to 13.
There's a lot of upside thereand making, like you said,
second largest employer, 75billion a month spent on
(07:55):
beverage alone, making a five to10 percent margin improvement by
just investing in technology andbuilding up the foundations of
restaurants.
That's a big deal.
And it's a fairly uncrowdedspace.
And so I think like, there's alevel of nuance that's been lost
in the conversation, which iscan you be differentiated?
And what is the opportunity forupside?
(08:17):
And I think investors andbuilders are coming around to it
now because of the things youmentioned.
But to me, it's just if I canmake restaurants 8 percent
better, At the end of the day,that's a massive value add.
Jeremy (08:32):
Especially to a industry that is so instrumental to even
the fabric of life in America,the other one that I like to
throw out and I'm probably goingto get a little bit of hate mail
for this is there's a lot ofpeople that have been doing
restaurants the same way for along time, and I think they're
very averse to change some ofthat's because tech companies
and people, that have greatideas.
Aren't able to either get thefunding or get execution.
(08:54):
And so everybody is a bit gunshy about taking on some of
this, it's the hospitalitybusiness after all, how do I
keep it hospitable, but alsocontinue to drive the margin
stack, like you're talkingabout,
Rishabh Kewalramani (09:07):
Yeah.
I think there's a couple ofthings that have happened.
First off restaurant ownersagain, have to a certain extent
been offered a bill of goodsthat hasn't come home.
and it's, we mentioned in thepre show about going to trade
shows.
When I was at gather, I went torestaurant trade shows all the
time and it's.
15 versions of the same point ofsale system offering you a
(09:30):
slightly better price or afeature that frankly doesn't add
to the bottom line.
And so I think there's been alot of try shiny object here and
shiny objects pretty good, butif you switch and I'll maybe get
some hate mail for this, if youswitch from toast to square,
does your margin really improve?
and that's where I think likethe first part of this is there
(09:53):
has been a lot of innovation andadvancement, but are we really
looking at the core margins inthe restaurant industry?
And that sort of leads me towhat we're building, which is
when you look at beverage, Ithink, Not a secret amongst
restaurant folks.
You get your margin out ofbeverages.
the saying at full servicerestaurants always been making
(10:14):
money on liquor break, even onthe food.
and I think the way we thinkabout it is.
If we make, if we run up thenumbers in, in, in beverage, if
we make that the highest margincategory possible across the
venues we work with, it allowsyou to make mistakes in other
places.
(10:34):
And it builds up like the, Italk about as like a foundation
you start, you like your bottomline starts off at a higher
place.
And then the decisions you makefrom there, the menus and things
like the menus, the decor, theambiance, the service, you can
bump up, but your bottom line ishigher if you maximize out of
beverage.
And I think when you look atwhat we've built, which is
(10:54):
effectively complex beverages ina box, it allows you to maximize
that beverage profit andactually add to the bottom line.
Jeremy (11:03):
I'd love for you to, click in on that.
What does it actually mean?
talk me through the traditionalprocess of building that, I know
the coffee, I'm not a coffeedrinker, but walk me through
what a barista needs to do tomake that, that, that
cappuccino, that espresso that,those different drinks.
And then let's talk about whatlife is different, when they
work with side work and how doesthat path go?
Because.
(11:24):
I'm, I'm sitting here not as acoffee drinker and I know coffee
is an area that you guys havedone well.
Talk me through, what does itlook like today and where is
life, transfer when you guys putyour stuff in?
Rishabh Kewalramani (11:34):
Yeah, I'd actually like to expand on that
a little bit too.
I would like to talk aboutwhat's it, what it's like today,
but also what it was like fiveyears ago and why that makes a
big difference.
or 10 years ago, so let's 10years ago or slightly earlier,
and let's just use Starbucks asan example, because I think
it's, So if you're looking 10plus years ago, the most ordered
(11:58):
drink at a Starbucks was a PikePlace drip coffee.
Super easy to pour, baristagrabs it, pours it, serves it,
30 seconds, the Starbucks in thethird place, all of it, right?
You fast forward to today and 70percent of Starbucks drinks are
cold and complex, and it'syou're using the same baristas.
(12:19):
You're the same.
It's effectively the same storesetups, but the drinks are just
a lot harder to make.
And so what I think one of themost popular drinks is an iced
brown sugar shaken espresso,which you can customize your
milk.
Your number of pumps of syrup,all of that.
So the, this, the make processand it's, on the cold complex
strings, you're talking about aseven to 13 step make process on
(12:40):
average.
And that's get the first thingis how much mental effort you
have to go through.
You read the ticket and you haveto understand what the modifiers
mean.
So this person's ordered withalmond milk.
They want light ice.
They want two extra pumps ofbrown sugar syrup.
What does that mean to thequantities?
And that's after at Starbucks.
(13:01):
A barista training is 41.
5 hours over 30 days.
So you've got all of thatknowledge in your head, and most
of it is around how to makedrinks.
And that's just base recipes.
And now you take the baserecipes and customers can do
whatever they want to those baserecipes.
And you're basically doingalgorithms in your head now.
Okay.
White ice means I decrease, Iincrease the quantity by this.
(13:24):
Adding those two pumps meanthis.
And now the new recipe is beingcomputed in your head to a
certain extent.
Jeremy (13:29):
huh.
Rishabh Kewalramani (13:30):
then the make process starts, then it's
bend over, grab the right typeof milk, fill it, go over to the
syrup pump station.
1, of this, 1, 2 of that down tothe espresso station, pour the
espresso shot, put everythingtogether.
Mix it with ice, shake it, andserve it.
And you have a drink.
Now you do that 250 times a day.
Jeremy (13:53):
Yeah.
and it's baffling to me.
I'm going to, I'm going to.
Asked to stop right here justbecause I'm baffled that you
said, I don't know, 70%, 70 pluspercent of beverages ads of, are
modified.
That is crazy talk.
and the funny part is I have twowomen in my life that enjoy
their Starbucks and they getthe, they modify the crap out of
(14:13):
what it is.
Quite frankly, they're at aplace now where they just order
on the app because half the timewhen they tell the cashier, they
don't get what they want.
And so they order on the app.
Because they realize that it'sin there the way that they do
it.
I'm going to tell a quick story.
we built a point of salesolution years ago where the
guest, it was kiosk at the tablewell before kiosk was a thing.
(14:35):
And so we were putting kiosks atthe table and at a restaurant
like a Chili's, it was less than20 percent of the orders were
modified and similar to theStarbucks example, they were
getting to 70, 75 percent ofthose orders were modified
because you know what?
When I go to Chili's and I ordera burger and I don't like
tomatoes, I realize I tomatoescome on the side.
I'm not going to worry abouttelling the server to don't put
(14:56):
tomatoes on there.
Whereas when I can do it on akiosk, I can take the tomatoes
off.
And now it creates this level ofcomplexity for both the expo, as
well as the guy that's producingthe food.
It was, it, they changed the,it, they changed the world of
how they were doing.
That order of operation.
So I think what you're saying isI guess just very eyeopening to
(15:18):
me just cause again, I'm not acoffee drinker, so I didn't
necessarily even know that wassuch a big piece of what it is
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Rishabh Kewalramani (16:00):
And I'm g we solve that in a second the
nailed on the head th coffee,whether it's cock restaurants,
beverages in demands are throughthe r The on premise is being
driven by the off premise.
The grocery isle of beverage hasnever looked better.
Flavored sparkling waters,kombuchas, coffees, all in a
(16:22):
can, all your favorite thing inmost restaurants you go to.
It's like a Coke and Diet Coke,still.
And and the other thing you hiton the head is As soon as those
apps started coming out, theorder ahead apps and those
options were there so clearlydisplayed the options that were
always behind the screensomewhere on the point of sale
system.
This thing really took off.
(16:43):
In fact, I was talking to a verysenior executive at one of the
larger, fastest growing coffeebrands in the country.
and in a moment of.
weakness, he told me thatthey're all in a race to the
death with Starbucks, but whenit comes to complexity, they all
have to do the order ahead ofapps.
They all have to let you choosethe syrups, the milks it's the
(17:04):
start with Starbucks has setthat standard.
The toothpaste is out of thetube and you have to do it now.
Jeremy (17:10):
but once you put it in the hands of the consumers, they
are going to modify it becausethey never, my wife, again, she
goes to, she goes and gets amargarita, you know what she
says, I'll have a housemargarita.
With salt, with salt, not sugaror whatever.
on the rocks with salt is herdrink.
But if she got a choice of 27different tequilas, she might
choose a different one eachtime, which to your point,
(17:30):
because you're putting it in thehands of the consumers, they're
going to modify it every time.
Rishabh Kewalramani (17:34):
And now with SideWork, you get this
order, this cold, complicatedorder with whatever modifiers.
We've built a layer of softwareintelligence.
In an instant, it understands.
Light ice means I increase thevolume by this.
Two extra pumps.
The Starbucks rules for that isit's 0.
5 ounces each.
If they've paid for it, if theywant to split their pumps, they
can split their pumps too.
All of that's done in aninstantaneous second.
(17:56):
Every non espresso ingredient inthat drink You take that cup to
our machine, you press a button,you hit dispense.
Everything's dispensedaccurately to one 10th of an
ounce in about 10 seconds.
You add espresso and ice thatdrink and you serve and you're
good to go.
You took that seven to 13 stepmake process.
You turn into three, a lot lessphysically intensive steps.
(18:17):
And you took all of theprocessing power out of it.
And I think that's, you know,we've a misnomer in the industry
now, especially in fast casualand in cafes, we call them
service industry employees.
But at their peak hours, ifyou're a brace at Starbucks,
you're not a service employee.
(18:37):
It's a manufacturing job.
Masquerading as a service job.
You are there to make drinks,and the more the customer
customizes, the more that ticketsize goes up and the more ticket
size, the more profits, and youmake drinks.
You make those drinks acrosseight hours and it's not a
service job.
There's no Hi.
Hello.
There's no, how's your day?
I've got a TI 15 tickets waitingfor me
Jeremy (18:59):
Yep.
I might as well be on the Fordproduction line turning a wrench
because it's about the same.
Rishabh Kewalramani (19:03):
And I tie that back to when we talk about
investment and underinvestment.
You know what's gotten a ton ofinvestment?
Manufacturing automation.
And if we're going to turn thesecafes into mini manufacturing
plants, we might as well givepeople the tools to make their
lives easier.
Jeremy (19:20):
Love that.
so let's talk a little bit abouthow you do that.
So you went through it prettyhigh level and I'd rather, I
want to dig in a little bitdeeper.
So take these complex drinks.
Let's talk about what, youtalked about where it was 10
years ago.
You talked about themodification and the ability for
humans to When they customize,it makes the job more complex.
(19:40):
Again, going back to, I rememberScion, which was a Toyota brand.
You can only get it the way thatthey made it because it was very
easy.
They could just cookie cutter itany more.
Now you've got 27 differentoptions as it relates to that.
And whether you charge for it,you don't charge for it.
What is it that you'reautomating?
Is it the flavors?
Is it the coffee?
Is it the, let's just stay onthe coffee train and maybe we
(20:01):
can pivot to, to mixed drinks atsome point too.
But, but I'd love to talk coffeefirst, just cause I know it's a
pretty big area.
Rishabh Kewalramani (20:07):
Yeah.
Let's talk coffee first, but Ido want to get to at some point
is all the brands that don'thave complex beverages on their
menu and how they're leaving alot of money on the table
because of how operationallydifficult it is.
But sticking with coffee and howit works, we don't have,
pictures in front of us.
I'll try to walk you through itas, as best as I can.
So imagine you've got a fourfoot wide, two foot deep
(20:30):
machine.
It's got two drawers.
that's a fridge in thosedrawers.
In the native containers, allthese ingredients come in,
you've got a bunch ofingredients plugged in upside
down.
You've got gallons of wholemilk, cartons of oat milk.
You've got liter bottles ofTehrani syrup and Monin syrup.
Everything's plugged into themachine, 36 ingredients in the
(20:51):
fridge, eight that you can pumpin from external like bags and
boxes of syrups, cold brew,anything that's shelf stable.
You've all of those ingredientsstocked that are those brands
ingredients.
And I think that is.
A lot of our technologicaladvancement is whatever the
brand serving.
We've got a small chain ofrestaurants in Arizona that does
a homemade raspberry puree withseeds in it, your oat milk, like
(21:15):
we don't demand anything out ofyour menu.
We can dispense anything.
So you've got all of thisstocked up.
You've got an order comes in.
It goes through our software.
Software understands the order,has our own intelligence built
into it.
It's, you've got your, let's goback to the brown sugar shake
and espresso that we've talkedto death about here.
And so now our machine knows,okay, that's going to get, it's
(21:36):
going to get whatever the milkis.
It's my choice is almond milk.
So it's going to get.
It's a 16 ounce drink.
That means the total volume isgoing to be eight ounces.
It's going to get two ounces ofespresso.
That's going to tell the baristato add on the ticket.
It's going to get four ounces ofalmond milk, two ounces, an
ounce and a half of brown sugarsyrup, an ounce and a half of
simple syrup.
(21:57):
The machine has all of thatinformation now.
And now you go to a proprietaryand fairly Like complex system
of sensors and pumps.
They get that data.
You pump all of that out, takesabout 10 seconds.
Everything mixes as it's comingout.
So you're getting a better mixedbeverage too, but in about 10
seconds, those pumps and sensorsare done.
And you've got a cup with all ofthe ingredients, you add
(22:19):
espresso and you serve it.
Jeremy (22:20):
Wow, that's incredible.
And so for those that arenaysayers, and I do want to get
to the point about, where's theopportunity for those that
aren't anywhere close to this.
for those that are the naysayersthat say, how is a robot, how is
a computer, how is this thinggoing to do it?
As well as the barista that'sbeen there for, for 10 years and
knows my people and knows what Iwant to do.
(22:42):
Cause we all know this we'retechnologists.
I realized that a computer cando it more consistently and
better than a human can.
But for those that are going tosay, wow, you're going to put
somebody out of a job.
They're not going to know how todo those things.
give me some, some fodder to goback to those people.
That says, no, you're crazy.
Rishabh Kewalramani (22:59):
That's first off.
They're not crazy because likeat first look, automation takes
away jobs.
I'm there too.
I want to talk about this in twoways.
Let's talk about it.
Let's start with some numbersand let's talk about it with the
general barista and guestexperience.
The numbers are this, it'sgetting really hard to run a
coffee shop.
(23:20):
So as you look today or any sortof restaurant, 50 percent of
jobs in the hospitality industryremain unfilled.
It's even worse.
It's even worse in, in cafes.
On average, 130 percent ofrestaurants are turning over
their staff every year.
Some of the coffee shops we workwith, it's 100 percent a
quarter.
Since 2020.
(23:40):
Ingredient costs are up 29%.
All of that is on a backdrop ofwhat we talked about earlier.
70 plus percent of Starbucksdrinks are not cold and complex.
So in a increasingly tighteningmacroeconomic like environment,
consumers are demanding more andmore.
And by the way, their walletshave been hurt too over the past
(24:02):
few years.
So they're demanding at acheaper point.
And so my first question is whatdo you want the coffee shop
owner to Do what do you want themanager to do that has to make
their PNL like work at the endof the day?
and at a broader level, like oneof the missions that we have
here is we want baristas,managers, owners, bartenders,
(24:23):
managers, owners, staff members,managers, owners.
We want them to be just as happyas the people dining at their
place.
And that isn't happening today.
It's a really stressful job to,to manage or operate a Starbucks
right now.
And I think Like you've seenalready, especially at the big
chains, but even at the mom andpop level, I've seen it with our
(24:45):
own customers closures over thepast five years, a lot of
closures.
So let's have a little bit of anuanced discussion, but it's not
just labor jobs.
Like we've got restaurantsclosing and margins thinning.
Like we've all got to pull upour sleeves and get to work a
little bit to, to make it alittle bit more protected.
But I think that the numberstell a lot of that story.
(25:08):
I think what's more important isthe barista and guest
experience.
And we already talked about itwith the Starbucks person.
When the barista, when you go toget a job as a barista or a
Starbucks, I don't think youexpect the physicality and the
mental stress you go through ona day to day basis.
Jeremy (25:29):
The grind.
It's a grind, man.
I've watched it.
I watched it when I went with mydaughter.
I was like, this is insane.
And the amount of patients thatguests have for not having their
coffee when they want it the waythey want it, or if it shows up
wrong, they just go ballistic onpeople and it's so silly.
Rishabh Kewalramani (25:44):
And so what I'd ask the people who are
having this argument is like,are we, looping in the baristas?
are the baristas saying no totools and automation?
Are they asking to make 250drinks by hand, every day?
are they asking to have to domath on an, on every order?
is that, who's begging for that?
And on top of that, I thinkthere's some like what's really
(26:07):
important to us as we thinkabout growing this company or
what are the lines between theperson, the machine, the guests,
all that stuff.
And so we talked about theStarbucks order.
We're not touching the pullingthe espresso shot.
that's coffee.
We're dispensing the milks, thesyrups, we're making sure
everything's accurate,everything's happening quickly,
you're still getting an espressoshot.
You're still getting thefinishes at the end that you're
(26:28):
still.
If you have a regular, you'restill getting that conversation.
Why are we so insistent onhaving people bend over, pick up
milk and pour the right amountof milk 300 times a day?
What, who is that proving?
What is that proving to who?
Jeremy (26:43):
What is that going to get for you at the end of the
day?
Rishabh Kewalramani (26:45):
why are we so insistent on protecting that?
and that flows all the waythrough the guest experience.
Like I think the bestabstraction for our company, the
way we think about it is if thebarista's experience has
improved.
That means the shop is going tobe more profitable and the guest
experience is going to bebetter.
(27:05):
and like I, we have it on ourwebsites.
I don't make any bones about it.
I think like SideWorks does makebaristas more effective in
making drinks.
It does about three times moreeffective as the studies show,
but I, I think the ways in whichwe make them more effective, add
to the experience and take awaythe physical and mental pain
(27:27):
that go into being a barista.
And I think there's a level ofnuance that sometimes gets lost
in the labor automationconversation that isn't
happening in other industries,and it's hurting us industry
wide.
Jeremy (27:37):
and at the end of the day, the guest is also going to
get what they ordered moreconsistently in a way that
they're going to be happier withthe product.
Before we jump into theopportunity to add this to a
group that doesn't have it, howdoes this translate to a place
that has a full bar that's doingmixed drinks?
is it a very similar process?
Because again, there's, you werea bartender, it's how you said,
(27:58):
Hey, I got to go solve thisproblem.
but.
But in a very busy bar, it's nota whole lot different than a
barista at a Starbucks.
The amount of complexity and theamount of whiskeys you have and
bourbons you have, and whatyou're mixing them with and all
of what that looks like, is itthe same idea?
Rishabh Kewalramani (28:12):
it is.
I think this is actually a greattransition to talk about like
value props to different typesof places.
And I think it's like verticalwide.
So you have your busy coffeeshops and you're busy bars where
it's the same idea.
You're talking about speed,throughput, stress on labor,
like just accuracy, all of thosethings.
But there's a couple other doorswe haven't explored yet.
(28:35):
One is you are a busy bar.
But your lunch shift isn't busyat all.
And I being a bartender andtalking to bartender, you know
what the hardest lunch shift tostaff is it's the bartending
shift at a Buffalo Wild Wings ona Tuesday afternoon.
Nobody is signing up for thatshift.
(28:55):
it's a lost leader in terms ofrevenue per labor hours that
shift.
And so I think, there's athere's an element to we solve
for the busy times.
We also solve for the deadtimes, because now.
A waiter can get a cocktail fromthe machine.
A waiter can get a complexbeverage.
And so that's like the secondvalue prop.
And then third, and I think thisis the, like the big one that
(29:17):
gets hidden behind all this.
You have the people that haveexisting complex beverages.
But then you also have largebrands with little to no
beverage menus.
Sweetgreen, Kava, InsomniaCookies, so on and so forth.
Where the profit from beverageis zero.
It's like you can get a bottleof Coke or a can of Spindrift.
(29:38):
it isn't specialized.
It isn't unique to the brand.
Nobody's ordering it.
And there's a large white spacethere.
And I get the reasons, right?
Beverage is an entirelydifferent category.
And if you want to go specialty,it's more labor, it's more
training, it's more operationalcosts.
and one of the things that we'vedone is we've enabled basically
(29:58):
in a very low cost way, thosebrands to start getting margins
and profits from beverage to, toboost their business.
But we've also done that withthe.
The coffee shops and the barsand restaurants.
I'll give you two examples.
One with Gregory's coffee in NewYork city.
One of the, one of the thingsthat has been a common theme
(30:20):
throughout this is consumersdemanding more labor is sticky
and they're getting fed up,right?
and one of the things is menu,new menu categories.
So Gregory's has been wanting toput refreshers on the menu for a
long time, but the baristasdidn't have to ban list to add
an entire new make process menucategory, all that stuff.
(30:42):
After getting their machines,they added refreshers to their
menu.
Refreshers now make up 24percent of their cold sales, a
category that they didn't havelast year.
Similarly, we work with arestaurant chain in Arizona.
Their coffee menu consisted, andthey're on like a college
campus.
Their coffee menu.
menu consisted of black coffee,iced coffee.
(31:03):
Those were their like lunchbrunch, coffee drinks.
We, partnered with La Colonnecoffee.
we gave them a coffee menu.
They had a machine for thecocktails already.
So it was just adding a coupleof recipes in 1, 500 more in
profit per month.
By having complex coffees on themenu.
Jeremy (31:20):
That's
Rishabh Kewalramani (31:20):
And now, and you, then you transfer that
to the brands that have no likecustom complex beverages, and
you start to see how thissnowballs, we're going to make
existing brands a lot moreprofitable and efficient, but
we're also going to bring thebrands that don't have complex
beverage menus that are customto their brand.
And I see this every day and Idon't.
(31:42):
For the life of me, don'tunderstand it.
You go through, you're like asweet green, for example, you go
through the painstaking processof having every detail thought
of in your food menu, theflavors, the sourcing, and then
you pair that with a can ofCoke.
or an Ollie pop, there is somuch white space there to drive
up profits and make theexperience better for the
(32:04):
guests.
I call the, my like takeaway,take home message for this.
I call people the doublestoppers.
and I was a double stopper.
I used to work in Philly and Iused to go to sweet green two to
three times for a week for lunchand go to Starbucks right after,
and why can't I get my coffee atsweet green?
That matches my food and that Ithink is a digestible way to
(32:28):
understand what the opportunityis for some of these other
brands.
And so whether you're a highvolume place with complex
beverages, a low volume placefor complex beverages or a place
without any complex beverages,we have a way to help the bottom
line.
Jeremy (32:42):
and I was gonna ta tag on top of that, the fact that
most times preventing peoplefrom doing it is the complexity
is the training, is theonboarding, is the staffing, is
the, menu creation and the menumanagement.
So the fact that you guys areallowing people to do that.
one last thing that I continueto hear about, and I'd love just
your take on it, isnon-traditional.
(33:03):
We keep hearing more and morebrands going non traditional,
whether that's on a collegecampus, whether that's at the
bottom of a high rise, whetherthat's in, in a hospital
environment.
Talk to me about how SideWorkcould help people with a non
traditional environment to growsales in those areas without
having to have a full staff of,of baristas in that environment.
Rishabh Kewalramani (33:24):
Yeah, let's start broadly.
You've got a lot of.
Really good concepts at, I thinkwhat I call like the cusp of
growth.
Maybe they're starting theirfranchise program that just did
their FDD.
They're getting to their 20th or30th store.
They were regional, but nowthey're going nationwide or
they're going non traditional.
And I think the biggest risk inthat sort of like valley of
(33:47):
death of companies that want tostart expanding nationwide, but
at the get across the chasm isquality control, especially like
a beverage brand.
And I think.
Day one, we were solved for thatproblem.
We just did it with Gregory'sfrom three states to 20 states.
They don't have to be worried ifthey're New York city based,
that the drinks in missionViejo, California tastes
(34:08):
different than the drinks thatpeople might've tasted in
Manhattan.
Like we've got that consistency.
Problem solved from day one.
But as you talk specificallyabout non traditionals, that's
where a lot of, like the growthcomes from.
Gregory's and mall kiosks.
We've got a brand coffeeRepublic that we just started
working with that's going in thebottom of high rises, doing a
cafe during the day cocktailsduring the night concept.
(34:29):
And I think there it's unique,but it's also non unique in this
way.
As you get further nontraditional, further past
traditional or as you expandfurther from your home base that
the biggest challenge is thesupply of specialized labor and
also the quality of specializedlabor and as you sort Reduce the
(34:56):
need for like highly trainedbartenders.
For example, you can make iteasier to go into those places.
And that's not to say that youreduce the need for labor in
general.
One of the things I learnedreally early on, we had, is this
a small mom and a pop shop andowner that's really forward
thinking, he told me, I thinkthree to four years ago, it's.
(35:19):
When we used to hire bartenders,we're looking for people with
the perfect pour, we're lookingfor this, we're looking for
that.
Now I can hire greatpersonalities and just have them
run the shop.
and maybe I'm not allowed to saythis in the podcast, but he
said, when we had to hire thatway, we were hiring a lot of
asshole bartenders.
but now I can hire good people,smart people, like great
(35:41):
personalities.
Maybe they don't have a ton ofbartending experience, but the
portioning of drinks is beingdone by your machine.
And it just.
in a lot of ways, whether it'sgoing to nontraditional
expanding nationwide, it makesthat expansion a lot easier
because it changes your hiring.
Jeremy (35:54):
it reminds me often of the fact that everybody has this
fear factor of things that, youknow, Oh, it's, I was teasing my
kids the other day about thefact that I used to have to take
a paper map and print it beforeI was going anywhere.
Now, did those companies dothat?
suddenly go out of business.
No, my life got better.
And so now you give the baristathree times more time back.
You're going to have a happierperson.
(36:16):
That's going to spend more timewith the guest telling them
about how awesome the coffee isthat they're serving them and
not necessarily just being inthis place where they're
frustrated because they had togo get another gallon of milk
out of the walk in, for the 10thtime, because it dropped off the
floor or whatever it might'vebeen.
So where do people learn more?
Cause this, honestly, like Isaid at the onset.
Yeah.
I'm blown away with what youguys have built.
(36:37):
I You know, I'm excited to seethe growth because I do see it
as a huge game changer forpeople that are in a place where
quite frankly, it's a hugeproblem.
And you guys are scratching anitch for people that it doesn't
feel like there's a whole lot ofother options out there if there
are any, so how do people learnmore, what would the engagement
look like if they were toconnect with your team and learn
(36:58):
more about, about how they couldautomate some of these pieces
within their business?
Rishabh Kewalramani (37:02):
Yeah.
first you can start our website,sidework.
co.
You can book a demo or a menuconsultation.
We're always happy to chat.
We get the technologies new.
We get that you probably haven'tseen it before.
we can walk you through it.
You can follow us on our socialson Instagram and LinkedIn.
And then more broadly, my emailis rishabh at sidework.
co.
I'm always open to chat futureof restaurant industry, how all
(37:24):
this plays together.
I think we've got, you've saidthis in your sign off.
it's a huge itch and, we've gotsome problems to solve.
I think we're making a fairlylarge investment at this company
at bringing like high qualitytechnology solutions to the
largest problems.
And I'm always happy to talk toanybody about that.
Jeremy (37:44):
Love that.
And, one thing I'll just, I'llremind, our listeners, if this
is something that you are tryingto solve, you don't necessarily
have to buy their solution totalk with them.
Rishabh will help you throughsome of this process.
And eventually I think you'regoing to need to figure it out.
And as I say, oftentimes, ifyou're not doing it.
Your neighbor's doing it andultimately he's got a leg up on
you if you haven't alreadychecked it out So I know for our
(38:06):
listeners that have beenlistening to the show for a long
time Many of them have contactedme offline and said you know
what?
I'm, so glad you had so and soon the show because I wouldn't
have been able to get to where Ineed to get you to grow My brand
so rishabh.
Thank you so much for not onlybeing on the show but for
creating something thatultimately is making people's
lives better because I loveentrepreneurs that go out and
solve problems that That makethe world a better place so that
(38:27):
restaurants can thrive.
So thank you for that
Rishabh Kewalramani (38:30):
Appreciate that.
Jeremy, let's all try to make.
our neighborhood restaurantmanager just as happy as our
neighborhood restaurant diner.
Jeremy (38:37):
Love it.
And, for our listeners, guys,you guys have got lots of
choices.
So thank you guys for hangingout with us.
If you haven't alreadysubscribed to the show, please
do so and make it a great day.
Thanks for listening to theRestaurant Technology Guys
podcast.
Visit www.
RestaurantTechnologyGuys.
com for tips, industry insights,and more to help you run your
restaurant better.
This is the RestaurantTechnology Guys podcast.
Helping you run your restaurantbetter.
Jeremy (00:09):
In today's episode, we are joined by a multiple time
founder who is trying to changethe game of beverages.
He and I get into depth as tothe problem that the beverage
industry has created as well ashow he and his co-founders are
solving for it.
I was blown away to the pointthat I was sharing it with my
family and my kids that evening.
(00:29):
And they were like, how do we gofigure this out and support this
piece of technology that Igenuinely think.
Is going to change the world ofbeverages.
So if you've got a beverageprogram and want to enhance it,
Keep listening to the episode.
If you've always wanted to addbeverages, whether that's
alcohol, non-alcohol coffee.
Check out the show.
If you don't know me, my name isJeremy Julian.
(00:51):
I am the chief revenue officerfor custom business solutions.
We Sell the north star point ofsale solution for multiple
units.
if you don't know who we are,check us www.Cbsnorthstar.com
and now onto the episode.
Welcome back to the restauranttechnology guys podcast.
I think everyone out there forjoining us today is going to be
(01:12):
a fun episode because, I love,and you guys have heard this
long time listeners have heardthis, I love listening to
entrepreneurs talk about, someproblem that they found out in
the space because, it's amazinghow much new technology comes
out in the restaurant spaceevery day.
And today we're going to get toexpose another one of those new
pieces of technology.
Rishabh, why don't you introduceyourself a before we jump into
kind of side work and what, Whatproblem you're trying to solve
(01:34):
in the space, but, where did youcome from A little bit of
background for our listeners,that may not be familiar with
what it is that you guys havebeen doing.
Rishabh Kewalramani (01:41):
Of course.
Thanks for having me.
First off.
I grew up outside of Pittsburgh,and have always been a builder
at heart.
I've got a couple co foundersthat I've known since 5th or 6th
grade.
and we were like the classickids in the back of the
classroom.
I remember Mrs Hoodman's class,6th grade science class.
We were working on.
I think the project of thesemester there was trying to
(02:04):
turn the kinetic energy ofoceans into potential energy.
Turns out that doesn't work thatwell, but I've been pretty much
building ever since.
Went to school at the Universityof Michigan.
graduated, went right intohospitality and hospitality
technology at another startup,got addicted to both building
companies and specificallybuilding companies for the
hospitality space.
(02:25):
And it's been doing it for myentire career.
Jeremy (02:28):
I love that.
and it's always fun when you cantake those learnings from the
different places that, that youhad been, why don't you
introduce your new project andwhere you guys are at today?
Cause I think, honestly, I'mexcited to get into the
conversation cause I've beendoing this close to 30 years in
the restaurant tech space.
And, there's not a whole lot ofstuff like what you're building
out there.
And so I love, I.
Every time I turn around, I'mlike, there can't be another
(02:49):
person that's doing somethingelse in this space.
It's gotta have all been figuredout.
But but at the end of the day, Ithink that you've got something
that's pretty unique and I wantour listeners to hear about it.
Rishabh Kewalramani (02:57):
Appreciate that.
Yeah.
at Sidework, we built theworld's first agnostic
ingredient dispensing system.
For highly complex beverages.
That's a lot of words for afairly simple concept.
So if any of your listeners areStarbucks drinkers, you're
Duncan drinkers, and they'regetting an ice brown sugar,
(03:17):
shaken espresso with a couple ofpumps of this and almond milk,
we take that drink and we makeit in less than 10 seconds with
a dispenser.
and basically reduce the lift onbaristas and drive top lines for
beverages for all sorts ofbusinesses.
Jeremy (03:33):
talk me through why that was where you guys went.
'cause that seems like a verycomplex problem to solve.
and I love that you guys aresolving it.
And again, I a hundred percentagree with you, and I think it's
gonna be one of those thingsthat.
30 years from now, we're goingto be like, how did anybody
stand there and really makethese drinks, especially for
some of those things.
But talk me through even theideation process of where this
came from.
Rishabh Kewalramani (03:53):
Yeah, it's one of those things.
It's like a grassroots naturalstory.
like I said, I started my careerin hospitality technology at a
company called gather.
We were making event managementsoftware.
So if you were restaurant, youwant to book out your private
room, managing the menus forthat private event, all that
stuff.
And while we were there, we hadan exit event.
We sold to Vista equitypartners.
(04:14):
But a couple things.
stuck with me first, I think youtalked about earlier how people
are constantly building forrestaurants.
I agree with that, but I alsothink that restaurants are very
under invested in, especiallywhen it comes to like top tier,
high quality technology.
And what I mean by that is.
If you look at like the venturecapital landscape or the general
(04:36):
financial institutions, thegoing saying is restaurants are
bad business, low margins, badbusiness, don't invest in
restaurants unless you like,really love it.
All of the cliches aroundrestaurants is a business in
general.
And if you look at the data oninvestment in restaurants,
especially as it relates toautomation and high, Tech
investments, they lag far behindindustries like manufacturing,
(05:00):
transportation, energy, so onand so forth.
But they're like central to thesocial fabric of what we do.
We celebrate our moments there.
We do they are central to, toeverything that we are.
And so while I was at gather, Igot a little bit addicted and a
little bit of a chip of myshoulder being like, I don't
think restaurants have to be badbusiness.
I think if we invest in themand.
(05:22):
Had the best technology talent.
The technology is built, sendingrocket ships space or like
controlling Amazon warehouse.
If we had that, we can make itbetter business and we can make
the people who run thosebusinesses happier, enjoy things
more.
And so that was the.
The business white space that wesaw the second part of the story
(05:43):
is a little bit more naturalwhile I was working in gather me
and one of the co founders who Imentioned, one of the people I
grew up with, one of thesmartest people I know, we got
bartending licenses.
We started becoming bartenders.
We got certificates and, Onething led to another and we
started building a cocktaildispenser as a passion project
and that snowballed into wherewe're at today, which is,
(06:05):
delivering complex drinks acrossthe country for a variety of
brands,
Jeremy (06:09):
Yeah, that's, that's amazing.
Why do you think thatrestaurants are so underinvested
in?
Is it, it's an interestingtheory and I say it often on the
show, restaurants are the secondlargest employer in the United
States behind the government.
And so more people work inrestaurants, more people have
gotten a startup in restaurants,more people have made their way
into restaurants.
And quite frankly, I think moreyouth should work in restaurants
(06:32):
because they'd have to deal withthe public more and they'd
probably be better humans.
But in general.
There, there are a very largepercentage of the population and
there's so few of them that,that haven't figured out when
you look at some of the otherareas of our lives, medical,
they've just gotten so muchinvestment, but restaurants on
the other hand are not, why doyou think that is?
Rishabh Kewalramani (06:50):
I think it's one big reason at the unit
level, the best restaurants orthe best coffee shops are
netting a 20 percent margin.
If you compare that to softwarecompanies, I come from a
technology world.
So when it when a venturecapitalist looking and making an
investment, you're You arecomparing it to things that you
know, and when you look atsoftware companies, and I think
(07:12):
like the best example of this isthe heyday of Google and Google
Ads is an 80% margin product,easily scalable, not physical.
And so like you can take thatand if you don't look any deeper
with any nuance, it could be 20%versus 80%.
Why would I ever park my moneyin the 20%, proposition.
But the reason I think that'swrong, and I think the reason
(07:33):
why we've got.
12 million raised and morecoming is because of what you
just said.
You've got to add best casescenario, 20 percent margin
category.
The average is hovering aroundeight to 13.
There's a lot of upside thereand making, like you said,
second largest employer, 75billion a month spent on
(07:55):
beverage alone, making a five to10 percent margin improvement by
just investing in technology andbuilding up the foundations of
restaurants.
That's a big deal.
And it's a fairly uncrowdedspace.
And so I think like, there's alevel of nuance that's been lost
in the conversation, which iscan you be differentiated?
And what is the opportunity forupside?
(08:17):
And I think investors andbuilders are coming around to it
now because of the things youmentioned.
But to me, it's just if I canmake restaurants 8 percent
better, At the end of the day,that's a massive value add.
Jeremy (08:32):
Especially to a industry that is so instrumental to even
the fabric of life in America,the other one that I like to
throw out and I'm probably goingto get a little bit of hate mail
for this is there's a lot ofpeople that have been doing
restaurants the same way for along time, and I think they're
very averse to change some ofthat's because tech companies
and people, that have greatideas.
Aren't able to either get thefunding or get execution.
(08:54):
And so everybody is a bit gunshy about taking on some of
this, it's the hospitalitybusiness after all, how do I
keep it hospitable, but alsocontinue to drive the margin
stack, like you're talkingabout,
Rishabh Kewalramani (09:07):
Yeah.
I think there's a couple ofthings that have happened.
First off restaurant ownersagain, have to a certain extent
been offered a bill of goodsthat hasn't come home.
and it's, we mentioned in thepre show about going to trade
shows.
When I was at gather, I went torestaurant trade shows all the
time and it's.
15 versions of the same point ofsale system offering you a
(09:30):
slightly better price or afeature that frankly doesn't add
to the bottom line.
And so I think there's been alot of try shiny object here and
shiny objects pretty good, butif you switch and I'll maybe get
some hate mail for this, if youswitch from toast to square,
does your margin really improve?
and that's where I think likethe first part of this is there
(09:53):
has been a lot of innovation andadvancement, but are we really
looking at the core margins inthe restaurant industry?
And that sort of leads me towhat we're building, which is
when you look at beverage, Ithink, Not a secret amongst
restaurant folks.
You get your margin out ofbeverages.
the saying at full servicerestaurants always been making
(10:14):
money on liquor break, even onthe food.
and I think the way we thinkabout it is.
If we make, if we run up thenumbers in, in, in beverage, if
we make that the highest margincategory possible across the
venues we work with, it allowsyou to make mistakes in other
places.
(10:34):
And it builds up like the, Italk about as like a foundation
you start, you like your bottomline starts off at a higher
place.
And then the decisions you makefrom there, the menus and things
like the menus, the decor, theambiance, the service, you can
bump up, but your bottom line ishigher if you maximize out of
beverage.
And I think when you look atwhat we've built, which is
(10:54):
effectively complex beverages ina box, it allows you to maximize
that beverage profit andactually add to the bottom line.
Jeremy (11:03):
I'd love for you to, click in on that.
What does it actually mean?
talk me through the traditionalprocess of building that, I know
the coffee, I'm not a coffeedrinker, but walk me through
what a barista needs to do tomake that, that, that
cappuccino, that espresso that,those different drinks.
And then let's talk about whatlife is different, when they
work with side work and how doesthat path go?
Because.
(11:24):
I'm, I'm sitting here not as acoffee drinker and I know coffee
is an area that you guys havedone well.
Talk me through, what does itlook like today and where is
life, transfer when you guys putyour stuff in?
Rishabh Kewalramani (11:34):
Yeah, I'd actually like to expand on that
a little bit too.
I would like to talk aboutwhat's it, what it's like today,
but also what it was like fiveyears ago and why that makes a
big difference.
or 10 years ago, so let's 10years ago or slightly earlier,
and let's just use Starbucks asan example, because I think
it's, So if you're looking 10plus years ago, the most ordered
(11:58):
drink at a Starbucks was a PikePlace drip coffee.
Super easy to pour, baristagrabs it, pours it, serves it,
30 seconds, the Starbucks in thethird place, all of it, right?
You fast forward to today and 70percent of Starbucks drinks are
cold and complex, and it'syou're using the same baristas.
(12:19):
You're the same.
It's effectively the same storesetups, but the drinks are just
a lot harder to make.
And so what I think one of themost popular drinks is an iced
brown sugar shaken espresso,which you can customize your
milk.
Your number of pumps of syrup,all of that.
So the, this, the make processand it's, on the cold complex
strings, you're talking about aseven to 13 step make process on
(12:40):
average.
And that's get the first thingis how much mental effort you
have to go through.
You read the ticket and you haveto understand what the modifiers
mean.
So this person's ordered withalmond milk.
They want light ice.
They want two extra pumps ofbrown sugar syrup.
What does that mean to thequantities?
And that's after at Starbucks.
(13:01):
A barista training is 41.
5 hours over 30 days.
So you've got all of thatknowledge in your head, and most
of it is around how to makedrinks.
And that's just base recipes.
And now you take the baserecipes and customers can do
whatever they want to those baserecipes.
And you're basically doingalgorithms in your head now.
Okay.
White ice means I decrease, Iincrease the quantity by this.
(13:24):
Adding those two pumps meanthis.
And now the new recipe is beingcomputed in your head to a
certain extent.
Jeremy (13:29):
huh.
Rishabh Kewalramani (13:30):
then the make process starts, then it's
bend over, grab the right typeof milk, fill it, go over to the
syrup pump station.
1, of this, 1, 2 of that down tothe espresso station, pour the
espresso shot, put everythingtogether.
Mix it with ice, shake it, andserve it.
And you have a drink.
Now you do that 250 times a day.
Jeremy (13:53):
Yeah.
and it's baffling to me.
I'm going to, I'm going to.
Asked to stop right here justbecause I'm baffled that you
said, I don't know, 70%, 70 pluspercent of beverages ads of, are
modified.
That is crazy talk.
and the funny part is I have twowomen in my life that enjoy
their Starbucks and they getthe, they modify the crap out of
(14:13):
what it is.
Quite frankly, they're at aplace now where they just order
on the app because half the timewhen they tell the cashier, they
don't get what they want.
And so they order on the app.
Because they realize that it'sin there the way that they do
it.
I'm going to tell a quick story.
we built a point of salesolution years ago where the
guest, it was kiosk at the tablewell before kiosk was a thing.
(14:35):
And so we were putting kiosks atthe table and at a restaurant
like a Chili's, it was less than20 percent of the orders were
modified and similar to theStarbucks example, they were
getting to 70, 75 percent ofthose orders were modified
because you know what?
When I go to Chili's and I ordera burger and I don't like
tomatoes, I realize I tomatoescome on the side.
I'm not going to worry abouttelling the server to don't put
(14:56):
tomatoes on there.
Whereas when I can do it on akiosk, I can take the tomatoes
off.
And now it creates this level ofcomplexity for both the expo, as
well as the guy that's producingthe food.
It was, it, they changed the,it, they changed the world of
how they were doing.
That order of operation.
So I think what you're saying isI guess just very eyeopening to
(15:18):
me just cause again, I'm not acoffee drinker, so I didn't
necessarily even know that wassuch a big piece of what it is
that they do.
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Rishabh Kewalramani (16:00):
And I'm g we solve that in a second the
nailed on the head th coffee,whether it's cock restaurants,
beverages in demands are throughthe r The on premise is being
driven by the off premise.
The grocery isle of beverage hasnever looked better.
Flavored sparkling waters,kombuchas, coffees, all in a
(16:22):
can, all your favorite thing inmost restaurants you go to.
It's like a Coke and Diet Coke,still.
And and the other thing you hiton the head is As soon as those
apps started coming out, theorder ahead apps and those
options were there so clearlydisplayed the options that were
always behind the screensomewhere on the point of sale
system.
This thing really took off.
(16:43):
In fact, I was talking to a verysenior executive at one of the
larger, fastest growing coffeebrands in the country.
and in a moment of.
weakness, he told me thatthey're all in a race to the
death with Starbucks, but whenit comes to complexity, they all
have to do the order ahead ofapps.
They all have to let you choosethe syrups, the milks it's the
(17:04):
start with Starbucks has setthat standard.
The toothpaste is out of thetube and you have to do it now.
Jeremy (17:10):
but once you put it in the hands of the consumers, they
are going to modify it becausethey never, my wife, again, she
goes to, she goes and gets amargarita, you know what she
says, I'll have a housemargarita.
With salt, with salt, not sugaror whatever.
on the rocks with salt is herdrink.
But if she got a choice of 27different tequilas, she might
choose a different one eachtime, which to your point,
(17:30):
because you're putting it in thehands of the consumers, they're
going to modify it every time.
Rishabh Kewalramani (17:34):
And now with SideWork, you get this
order, this cold, complicatedorder with whatever modifiers.
We've built a layer of softwareintelligence.
In an instant, it understands.
Light ice means I increase thevolume by this.
Two extra pumps.
The Starbucks rules for that isit's 0.
5 ounces each.
If they've paid for it, if theywant to split their pumps, they
can split their pumps too.
All of that's done in aninstantaneous second.
(17:56):
Every non espresso ingredient inthat drink You take that cup to
our machine, you press a button,you hit dispense.
Everything's dispensedaccurately to one 10th of an
ounce in about 10 seconds.
You add espresso and ice thatdrink and you serve and you're
good to go.
You took that seven to 13 stepmake process.
You turn into three, a lot lessphysically intensive steps.
(18:17):
And you took all of theprocessing power out of it.
And I think that's, you know,we've a misnomer in the industry
now, especially in fast casualand in cafes, we call them
service industry employees.
But at their peak hours, ifyou're a brace at Starbucks,
you're not a service employee.
(18:37):
It's a manufacturing job.
Masquerading as a service job.
You are there to make drinks,and the more the customer
customizes, the more that ticketsize goes up and the more ticket
size, the more profits, and youmake drinks.
You make those drinks acrosseight hours and it's not a
service job.
There's no Hi.
Hello.
There's no, how's your day?
I've got a TI 15 tickets waitingfor me
Jeremy (18:59):
Yep.
I might as well be on the Fordproduction line turning a wrench
because it's about the same.
Rishabh Kewalramani (19:03):
And I tie that back to when we talk about
investment and underinvestment.
You know what's gotten a ton ofinvestment?
Manufacturing automation.
And if we're going to turn thesecafes into mini manufacturing
plants, we might as well givepeople the tools to make their
lives easier.
Jeremy (19:20):
Love that.
so let's talk a little bit abouthow you do that.
So you went through it prettyhigh level and I'd rather, I
want to dig in a little bitdeeper.
So take these complex drinks.
Let's talk about what, youtalked about where it was 10
years ago.
You talked about themodification and the ability for
humans to When they customize,it makes the job more complex.
(19:40):
Again, going back to, I rememberScion, which was a Toyota brand.
You can only get it the way thatthey made it because it was very
easy.
They could just cookie cutter itany more.
Now you've got 27 differentoptions as it relates to that.
And whether you charge for it,you don't charge for it.
What is it that you'reautomating?
Is it the flavors?
Is it the coffee?
Is it the, let's just stay onthe coffee train and maybe we
(20:01):
can pivot to, to mixed drinks atsome point too.
But, but I'd love to talk coffeefirst, just cause I know it's a
pretty big area.
Rishabh Kewalramani (20:07):
Yeah.
Let's talk coffee first, but Ido want to get to at some point
is all the brands that don'thave complex beverages on their
menu and how they're leaving alot of money on the table
because of how operationallydifficult it is.
But sticking with coffee and howit works, we don't have,
pictures in front of us.
I'll try to walk you through itas, as best as I can.
So imagine you've got a fourfoot wide, two foot deep
(20:30):
machine.
It's got two drawers.
that's a fridge in thosedrawers.
In the native containers, allthese ingredients come in,
you've got a bunch ofingredients plugged in upside
down.
You've got gallons of wholemilk, cartons of oat milk.
You've got liter bottles ofTehrani syrup and Monin syrup.
Everything's plugged into themachine, 36 ingredients in the
(20:51):
fridge, eight that you can pumpin from external like bags and
boxes of syrups, cold brew,anything that's shelf stable.
You've all of those ingredientsstocked that are those brands
ingredients.
And I think that is.
A lot of our technologicaladvancement is whatever the
brand serving.
We've got a small chain ofrestaurants in Arizona that does
a homemade raspberry puree withseeds in it, your oat milk, like
(21:15):
we don't demand anything out ofyour menu.
We can dispense anything.
So you've got all of thisstocked up.
You've got an order comes in.
It goes through our software.
Software understands the order,has our own intelligence built
into it.
It's, you've got your, let's goback to the brown sugar shake
and espresso that we've talkedto death about here.
And so now our machine knows,okay, that's going to get, it's
(21:36):
going to get whatever the milkis.
It's my choice is almond milk.
So it's going to get.
It's a 16 ounce drink.
That means the total volume isgoing to be eight ounces.
It's going to get two ounces ofespresso.
That's going to tell the baristato add on the ticket.
It's going to get four ounces ofalmond milk, two ounces, an
ounce and a half of brown sugarsyrup, an ounce and a half of
simple syrup.
(21:57):
The machine has all of thatinformation now.
And now you go to a proprietaryand fairly Like complex system
of sensors and pumps.
They get that data.
You pump all of that out, takesabout 10 seconds.
Everything mixes as it's comingout.
So you're getting a better mixedbeverage too, but in about 10
seconds, those pumps and sensorsare done.
And you've got a cup with all ofthe ingredients, you add
(22:19):
espresso and you serve it.
Jeremy (22:20):
Wow, that's incredible.
And so for those that arenaysayers, and I do want to get
to the point about, where's theopportunity for those that
aren't anywhere close to this.
for those that are the naysayersthat say, how is a robot, how is
a computer, how is this thinggoing to do it?
As well as the barista that'sbeen there for, for 10 years and
knows my people and knows what Iwant to do.
(22:42):
Cause we all know this we'retechnologists.
I realized that a computer cando it more consistently and
better than a human can.
But for those that are going tosay, wow, you're going to put
somebody out of a job.
They're not going to know how todo those things.
give me some, some fodder to goback to those people.
That says, no, you're crazy.
Rishabh Kewalramani (22:59):
That's first off.
They're not crazy because likeat first look, automation takes
away jobs.
I'm there too.
I want to talk about this in twoways.
Let's talk about it.
Let's start with some numbersand let's talk about it with the
general barista and guestexperience.
The numbers are this, it'sgetting really hard to run a
coffee shop.
(23:20):
So as you look today or any sortof restaurant, 50 percent of
jobs in the hospitality industryremain unfilled.
It's even worse.
It's even worse in, in cafes.
On average, 130 percent ofrestaurants are turning over
their staff every year.
Some of the coffee shops we workwith, it's 100 percent a
quarter.
Since 2020.
(23:40):
Ingredient costs are up 29%.
All of that is on a backdrop ofwhat we talked about earlier.
70 plus percent of Starbucksdrinks are not cold and complex.
So in a increasingly tighteningmacroeconomic like environment,
consumers are demanding more andmore.
And by the way, their walletshave been hurt too over the past
(24:02):
few years.
So they're demanding at acheaper point.
And so my first question is whatdo you want the coffee shop
owner to Do what do you want themanager to do that has to make
their PNL like work at the endof the day?
and at a broader level, like oneof the missions that we have
here is we want baristas,managers, owners, bartenders,
(24:23):
managers, owners, staff members,managers, owners.
We want them to be just as happyas the people dining at their
place.
And that isn't happening today.
It's a really stressful job to,to manage or operate a Starbucks
right now.
And I think Like you've seenalready, especially at the big
chains, but even at the mom andpop level, I've seen it with our
(24:45):
own customers closures over thepast five years, a lot of
closures.
So let's have a little bit of anuanced discussion, but it's not
just labor jobs.
Like we've got restaurantsclosing and margins thinning.
Like we've all got to pull upour sleeves and get to work a
little bit to, to make it alittle bit more protected.
But I think that the numberstell a lot of that story.
(25:08):
I think what's more important isthe barista and guest
experience.
And we already talked about itwith the Starbucks person.
When the barista, when you go toget a job as a barista or a
Starbucks, I don't think youexpect the physicality and the
mental stress you go through ona day to day basis.
Jeremy (25:29):
The grind.
It's a grind, man.
I've watched it.
I watched it when I went with mydaughter.
I was like, this is insane.
And the amount of patients thatguests have for not having their
coffee when they want it the waythey want it, or if it shows up
wrong, they just go ballistic onpeople and it's so silly.
Rishabh Kewalramani (25:44):
And so what I'd ask the people who are
having this argument is like,are we, looping in the baristas?
are the baristas saying no totools and automation?
Are they asking to make 250drinks by hand, every day?
are they asking to have to domath on an, on every order?
is that, who's begging for that?
And on top of that, I thinkthere's some like what's really
(26:07):
important to us as we thinkabout growing this company or
what are the lines between theperson, the machine, the guests,
all that stuff.
And so we talked about theStarbucks order.
We're not touching the pullingthe espresso shot.
that's coffee.
We're dispensing the milks, thesyrups, we're making sure
everything's accurate,everything's happening quickly,
you're still getting an espressoshot.
You're still getting thefinishes at the end that you're
(26:28):
still.
If you have a regular, you'restill getting that conversation.
Why are we so insistent onhaving people bend over, pick up
milk and pour the right amountof milk 300 times a day?
What, who is that proving?
What is that proving to who?
Jeremy (26:43):
What is that going to get for you at the end of the
day?
Rishabh Kewalramani (26:45):
why are we so insistent on protecting that?
and that flows all the waythrough the guest experience.
Like I think the bestabstraction for our company, the
way we think about it is if thebarista's experience has
improved.
That means the shop is going tobe more profitable and the guest
experience is going to bebetter.
(27:05):
and like I, we have it on ourwebsites.
I don't make any bones about it.
I think like SideWorks does makebaristas more effective in
making drinks.
It does about three times moreeffective as the studies show,
but I, I think the ways in whichwe make them more effective, add
to the experience and take awaythe physical and mental pain
(27:27):
that go into being a barista.
And I think there's a level ofnuance that sometimes gets lost
in the labor automationconversation that isn't
happening in other industries,and it's hurting us industry
wide.
Jeremy (27:37):
and at the end of the day, the guest is also going to
get what they ordered moreconsistently in a way that
they're going to be happier withthe product.
Before we jump into theopportunity to add this to a
group that doesn't have it, howdoes this translate to a place
that has a full bar that's doingmixed drinks?
is it a very similar process?
Because again, there's, you werea bartender, it's how you said,
(27:58):
Hey, I got to go solve thisproblem.
but.
But in a very busy bar, it's nota whole lot different than a
barista at a Starbucks.
The amount of complexity and theamount of whiskeys you have and
bourbons you have, and whatyou're mixing them with and all
of what that looks like, is itthe same idea?
Rishabh Kewalramani (28:12):
it is.
I think this is actually a greattransition to talk about like
value props to different typesof places.
And I think it's like verticalwide.
So you have your busy coffeeshops and you're busy bars where
it's the same idea.
You're talking about speed,throughput, stress on labor,
like just accuracy, all of thosethings.
But there's a couple other doorswe haven't explored yet.
(28:35):
One is you are a busy bar.
But your lunch shift isn't busyat all.
And I being a bartender andtalking to bartender, you know
what the hardest lunch shift tostaff is it's the bartending
shift at a Buffalo Wild Wings ona Tuesday afternoon.
Nobody is signing up for thatshift.
(28:55):
it's a lost leader in terms ofrevenue per labor hours that
shift.
And so I think, there's athere's an element to we solve
for the busy times.
We also solve for the deadtimes, because now.
A waiter can get a cocktail fromthe machine.
A waiter can get a complexbeverage.
And so that's like the secondvalue prop.
And then third, and I think thisis the, like the big one that
(29:17):
gets hidden behind all this.
You have the people that haveexisting complex beverages.
But then you also have largebrands with little to no
beverage menus.
Sweetgreen, Kava, InsomniaCookies, so on and so forth.
Where the profit from beverageis zero.
It's like you can get a bottleof Coke or a can of Spindrift.
(29:38):
it isn't specialized.
It isn't unique to the brand.
Nobody's ordering it.
And there's a large white spacethere.
And I get the reasons, right?
Beverage is an entirelydifferent category.
And if you want to go specialty,it's more labor, it's more
training, it's more operationalcosts.
and one of the things that we'vedone is we've enabled basically
(29:58):
in a very low cost way, thosebrands to start getting margins
and profits from beverage to, toboost their business.
But we've also done that withthe.
The coffee shops and the barsand restaurants.
I'll give you two examples.
One with Gregory's coffee in NewYork city.
One of the, one of the thingsthat has been a common theme
(30:20):
throughout this is consumersdemanding more labor is sticky
and they're getting fed up,right?
and one of the things is menu,new menu categories.
So Gregory's has been wanting toput refreshers on the menu for a
long time, but the baristasdidn't have to ban list to add
an entire new make process menucategory, all that stuff.
(30:42):
After getting their machines,they added refreshers to their
menu.
Refreshers now make up 24percent of their cold sales, a
category that they didn't havelast year.
Similarly, we work with arestaurant chain in Arizona.
Their coffee menu consisted, andthey're on like a college
campus.
Their coffee menu.
menu consisted of black coffee,iced coffee.
(31:03):
Those were their like lunchbrunch, coffee drinks.
We, partnered with La Colonnecoffee.
we gave them a coffee menu.
They had a machine for thecocktails already.
So it was just adding a coupleof recipes in 1, 500 more in
profit per month.
By having complex coffees on themenu.
Jeremy (31:20):
That's
Rishabh Kewalramani (31:20):
And now, and you, then you transfer that
to the brands that have no likecustom complex beverages, and
you start to see how thissnowballs, we're going to make
existing brands a lot moreprofitable and efficient, but
we're also going to bring thebrands that don't have complex
beverage menus that are customto their brand.
And I see this every day and Idon't.
(31:42):
For the life of me, don'tunderstand it.
You go through, you're like asweet green, for example, you go
through the painstaking processof having every detail thought
of in your food menu, theflavors, the sourcing, and then
you pair that with a can ofCoke.
or an Ollie pop, there is somuch white space there to drive
up profits and make theexperience better for the
(32:04):
guests.
I call the, my like takeaway,take home message for this.
I call people the doublestoppers.
and I was a double stopper.
I used to work in Philly and Iused to go to sweet green two to
three times for a week for lunchand go to Starbucks right after,
and why can't I get my coffee atsweet green?
That matches my food and that Ithink is a digestible way to
(32:28):
understand what the opportunityis for some of these other
brands.
And so whether you're a highvolume place with complex
beverages, a low volume placefor complex beverages or a place
without any complex beverages,we have a way to help the bottom
line.
Jeremy (32:42):
and I was gonna ta tag on top of that, the fact that
most times preventing peoplefrom doing it is the complexity
is the training, is theonboarding, is the staffing, is
the, menu creation and the menumanagement.
So the fact that you guys areallowing people to do that.
one last thing that I continueto hear about, and I'd love just
your take on it, isnon-traditional.
(33:03):
We keep hearing more and morebrands going non traditional,
whether that's on a collegecampus, whether that's at the
bottom of a high rise, whetherthat's in, in a hospital
environment.
Talk to me about how SideWorkcould help people with a non
traditional environment to growsales in those areas without
having to have a full staff of,of baristas in that environment.
Rishabh Kewalramani (33:24):
Yeah, let's start broadly.
You've got a lot of.
Really good concepts at, I thinkwhat I call like the cusp of
growth.
Maybe they're starting theirfranchise program that just did
their FDD.
They're getting to their 20th or30th store.
They were regional, but nowthey're going nationwide or
they're going non traditional.
And I think the biggest risk inthat sort of like valley of
(33:47):
death of companies that want tostart expanding nationwide, but
at the get across the chasm isquality control, especially like
a beverage brand.
And I think.
Day one, we were solved for thatproblem.
We just did it with Gregory'sfrom three states to 20 states.
They don't have to be worried ifthey're New York city based,
that the drinks in missionViejo, California tastes
(34:08):
different than the drinks thatpeople might've tasted in
Manhattan.
Like we've got that consistency.
Problem solved from day one.
But as you talk specificallyabout non traditionals, that's
where a lot of, like the growthcomes from.
Gregory's and mall kiosks.
We've got a brand coffeeRepublic that we just started
working with that's going in thebottom of high rises, doing a
cafe during the day cocktailsduring the night concept.
(34:29):
And I think there it's unique,but it's also non unique in this
way.
As you get further nontraditional, further past
traditional or as you expandfurther from your home base that
the biggest challenge is thesupply of specialized labor and
also the quality of specializedlabor and as you sort Reduce the
(34:56):
need for like highly trainedbartenders.
For example, you can make iteasier to go into those places.
And that's not to say that youreduce the need for labor in
general.
One of the things I learnedreally early on, we had, is this
a small mom and a pop shop andowner that's really forward
thinking, he told me, I thinkthree to four years ago, it's.
(35:19):
When we used to hire bartenders,we're looking for people with
the perfect pour, we're lookingfor this, we're looking for
that.
Now I can hire greatpersonalities and just have them
run the shop.
and maybe I'm not allowed to saythis in the podcast, but he
said, when we had to hire thatway, we were hiring a lot of
asshole bartenders.
but now I can hire good people,smart people, like great
(35:41):
personalities.
Maybe they don't have a ton ofbartending experience, but the
portioning of drinks is beingdone by your machine.
And it just.
in a lot of ways, whether it'sgoing to nontraditional
expanding nationwide, it makesthat expansion a lot easier
because it changes your hiring.
Jeremy (35:54):
it reminds me often of the fact that everybody has this
fear factor of things that, youknow, Oh, it's, I was teasing my
kids the other day about thefact that I used to have to take
a paper map and print it beforeI was going anywhere.
Now, did those companies dothat?
suddenly go out of business.
No, my life got better.
And so now you give the baristathree times more time back.
You're going to have a happierperson.
(36:16):
That's going to spend more timewith the guest telling them
about how awesome the coffee isthat they're serving them and
not necessarily just being inthis place where they're
frustrated because they had togo get another gallon of milk
out of the walk in, for the 10thtime, because it dropped off the
floor or whatever it might'vebeen.
So where do people learn more?
Cause this, honestly, like Isaid at the onset.
Yeah.
I'm blown away with what youguys have built.
(36:37):
I You know, I'm excited to seethe growth because I do see it
as a huge game changer forpeople that are in a place where
quite frankly, it's a hugeproblem.
And you guys are scratching anitch for people that it doesn't
feel like there's a whole lot ofother options out there if there
are any, so how do people learnmore, what would the engagement
look like if they were toconnect with your team and learn
(36:58):
more about, about how they couldautomate some of these pieces
within their business?
Rishabh Kewalramani (37:02):
Yeah.
first you can start our website,sidework.
co.
You can book a demo or a menuconsultation.
We're always happy to chat.
We get the technologies new.
We get that you probably haven'tseen it before.
we can walk you through it.
You can follow us on our socialson Instagram and LinkedIn.
And then more broadly, my emailis rishabh at sidework.
co.
I'm always open to chat futureof restaurant industry, how all
(37:24):
this plays together.
I think we've got, you've saidthis in your sign off.
it's a huge itch and, we've gotsome problems to solve.
I think we're making a fairlylarge investment at this company
at bringing like high qualitytechnology solutions to the
largest problems.
And I'm always happy to talk toanybody about that.
Jeremy (37:44):
Love that.
And, one thing I'll just, I'llremind, our listeners, if this
is something that you are tryingto solve, you don't necessarily
have to buy their solution totalk with them.
Rishabh will help you throughsome of this process.
And eventually I think you'regoing to need to figure it out.
And as I say, oftentimes, ifyou're not doing it.
Your neighbor's doing it andultimately he's got a leg up on
you if you haven't alreadychecked it out So I know for our
(38:06):
listeners that have beenlistening to the show for a long
time Many of them have contactedme offline and said you know
what?
I'm, so glad you had so and soon the show because I wouldn't
have been able to get to where Ineed to get you to grow My brand
so rishabh.
Thank you so much for not onlybeing on the show but for
creating something thatultimately is making people's
lives better because I loveentrepreneurs that go out and
solve problems that That makethe world a better place so that
(38:27):
restaurants can thrive.
So thank you for that
Rishabh Kewalramani (38:30):
Appreciate that.
Jeremy, let's all try to make.
our neighborhood restaurantmanager just as happy as our
neighborhood restaurant diner.
Jeremy (38:37):
Love it.
And, for our listeners, guys,you guys have got lots of
choices.
So thank you guys for hangingout with us.
If you haven't alreadysubscribed to the show, please
do so and make it a great day.
Thanks for listening to theRestaurant Technology Guys
podcast.
Visit www.
RestaurantTechnologyGuys.
com for tips, industry insights,and more to help you run your
restaurant better.
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