December 1, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of the Restaurant Technology Guys podcast, host Jeremy Julian converses with Paul Tran, a seasoned entrepreneur and franchise expert. With a 20-year journey in the restaurant industry, Paul shares his story of turning a student loan into a successful Cajun crawfish restaurant and subsequent experiences scaling major brands like Halal Guys and Pepper Lunch. Paul discusses the importance of selecting the right franchisee, maintaining operational consistency, and building strong relationships between franchisees and franchisors. He also offers insights on effective marketing strategies and operations that contribute to franchise success. The episode is packed with valuable lessons for anyone looking to scale in the restaurant industry or seeking entrepreneurial inspiration.
00:00 Paul Tran of Pepper Lunch
01:39 Introduction and Welcome
01:50 Meet Paul Tran: A Journey in the Restaurant Industry
02:35 Paul's Early Ventures and Lessons Learned
05:44 The Halal Guys and Franchise Experience
07:05 Pepper Lunch: A New Venture
09:27 Insights on Franchising and Finding the Right Franchisees
14:59 Challenges and Success in Scaling a Franchise
24:16 California Brands in Texas
24:54 Franchisee and Franchisor Relationships
26:02 Choosing the Right Franchisee
26:47 Healthy and Unhealthy Tensions
31:21 Marketing and Community Outreach
37:10 Pepper Lunch Concept Explained
42:36 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:02):
This is the Restaurant Technology Guides podcast,
helping you run your restaurantbetter.
Welcome back to the RestaurantTechnology Guys podcast.
And today's episode is one of myfavorite episodes because Paul
and I have been chasing eachother for a while to get'em on
(00:24):
the show.
Uh, if you ever dreamed ofbuilding a restaurant brand,
scaling a franchise group or so,listening to someone that turned
crawfish deliveries into amultimillion dollar business.
Paul is your guy.
Uh, for those that know Paul,he's just an amazing dude that,
uh, is a, a consum anentrepreneur, but he is really
helped franchisees grow, uh, inlots of different ways.
(00:47):
The, um, he's now helping toexpand the Pepper Lunch
franchise group, but in the pasthe has lots of different
experiences working with Halalguys and some other concepts.
He and I talked quite a bitabout what it looks like to
learn and grow and scale in therestaurant industry.
Whether you're a franchiseehoping to open more restaurants,
(01:08):
or you just love a goodentrepreneurial story about
somebody that's made it, Paul isyour guy.
So check out the episode, hangout till the end where he and I
talk a little bit about some ofthe things that were his best
lessons and some of the greatfood that he's eaten.
Over the years in the differentgroups of restaurants that he is
worked in.
If you don't know me, my name isJeremy Julian.
I'm the Chief Revenue Officerfor CBS North Star.
(01:29):
We sell the North Star point ofsale product for multi-unit
restaurants.
Please check usout@cbsnorthstar.com and now
onto the episode.
Jeremy Julian (01:40):
welcome back to the Restaurant Technology Guys
podcast.
I thank everyone out there forjoining us.
As I like to say, on the onsetof every one of these episodes.
I know you guys got lots ofchoices, so thanks for hanging
out.
I have a, a, a very specialguest today and, and it's kind
of funny because I had beenfollowing Paul for quite some
time, even before Paul knew whoI was.
I'd been following Paul and hisjourney all really through
(02:01):
restaurants.
And so Paul, why don't youintroduce yourself a little bit.
I know you and I got to meet inperson just earlier this year,
at a trade show, but, who isPaul Tran?
tell me a little bit about yourbackstory and then we'll talk
about how I've been followingthe different brands as you guys
have gone and your learnings andwhat you're doing.
Most recently,
Paul Tran (02:17):
For sure, Jeremy.
And, along that same line ofwhat you started with, audience
has tons of choices and theychoose you.
I wanna say the same thing toyou.
you have plenty of people.
In your network as well.
So I'm honored that you wouldchoose me and hopefully there's
a, hopefully there's a way Icould be of service and be
insightful to this.
So thank you again, Jeremy.
Jeremy Julian (02:33):
I'm certain you will.
Paul Tran (02:35):
Uh, well, for myself, I've, I've been in the
restaurant and the franchiseworld for about 20 years.
and I got into the industry likemost people by accident and, uh,
and because I was just hungry,uh, and, I'll let you poke holes
at what you think is the mostinteresting or deserves a little
bit more elaboration.
(02:55):
But, essentially I, I started, Igot into the business by just
blowing some student loan moneywhile I was still in college.
I thought I could.
I thought, how hard can therestaurant business be?
Let's create a cool concept.
I was frustrated with, how busya certain restaurant was here in
Southern California.
and I wanted to scratch my ownitch.
(03:16):
I was like, I don't wanna waitanymore.
Let me just create my own stuffand kind of get high off my own
supply, uh, and, and justignorance, confidence, and
borrowed money.
Uh, just allowed me to just getinto the business.
Uh, and it's an amazing thingwhen you're, when you're naive
and when you're young,'cause youyour arrogance and your
confidence kind of like overlookand, and minimize all the real
(03:38):
obstacles that tend to be in theway when you're trying to do
something, like start a businessor learn how to cook.
Uh, and so I got really lucky.
I built a really coolrestaurant, uh, that served
Cajun crawfish shipped, directlyfrom Louisiana Every day.
I have stories of me, driving mylittle Honda Civic to John Wayne
Airport every day to thewarehouse, to to the cargo hold
(04:00):
where I would pick up 10 to 20boxes of, uh, crawfish directly
from.
Louisiana shipped to Houston.
Houston shipped to John Wayne.
Uh, and so my car always smelledlike crawfish and wasn't helpful
for the dating life.
Jeremy Julian (04:15):
Yeah, I was gonna say the dating life rally was
like, whoa, what's going onhere?
Paul Tran (04:18):
it's not gonna get hot and steamy in the car for
sure.
but, uh, but no, it, when you'reyoung and, and you just
bootstrap and you have naive,but you have a lot of grit, just
did whatever I needed to do tosucceed in the business.
And, um, yeah, just built areally good restaurant that
eventually got sold.
I got acquired, um, by a privateinvestor that bought me out
after three years of, uh, of asuccessful run.
(04:40):
and that pretty much.
Jumpstarted me, uh, to therestaurant business.
I was just fascinated by food.
How, When you're hungry or whenyou need to decompress or you
want to celebrate life's biggestmoments, or you just wanna hang
out with a friend, always thecommon denominator is food.
and so I decided to just pursueit a little bit further from the
(05:01):
business side and, just a lotof.
Chance events allowed me tostart consulting other
restaurants, learn the businessfrom, some mentors that, took me
under their wing.
if you're familiar with Dan Rowefrom TranSMART, I ended up
working for him for 10 years.
and, uh, had a chance to seefive guys.
inaction when there was justlike a few stores when they only
(05:22):
had like five locations, to, youknow, over a thousand locations
around the world.
so I got to see what it took fora small mom and pop unassuming
brand, uh, reach escapevelocity.
and I also learned a lot aboutwhat brands should not do and
brands that didn't make it.
Uh, and it was during that timethat I built knowledge.
Connections capital.
(05:44):
and uh, that was when there wasa ti uh, 2000, let's see, 2000,
1214 is when the, uh, the Halalguys decided to franchise and
they became a brand in ourportfolio in f March portfolio.
And at that time, I, I just hadthis itch to jump back in the
business.
Like you, Jeremy, I know you'rea fan of all guys.
(06:05):
Same thing.
Uh, I first fell in love withthe brand, just traveling to New
York, lining up, uh, at thecarts, and I just, I had to be a
part of it, not just from aconsulting.
Uh, capacity.
So I ended up wearing both hatsand I consulted for them
globally, and I also became afranchisee for them in Southern
California.
and I knew I couldn't do italone.
and so I built a team, raised alittle bit of capital, and,
(06:28):
built, an organization that wentto 11 stores.
We did lose two stores, uh,during the pandemic.
Um, but we did a healthy 15 to$20 million a year in annual
sales.
Uh, and we were continuing tobuild more, but we got
approached by a hospitalitycompany that wanted to add, food
to their portfolio.
So they made an offer.
And, two years ago I ended up,uh, closing the sale of, of my
(06:50):
company.
Sold the company and, uh, justcontinued to consult some more.
And, and I wasn't planning ongetting into the business again.
My wife told me that if I got itback into the business, she
would kill me and, and, uh, andthen divorce me.
but here we are because I, Ialso, I decided to, I fell in
love with Pepper lunch.
(07:10):
Uh, you and I know Troy, uh,Troy actually reached out to me.
Uh, he, he cold DMed me andsaid, Hey, I heard that you are
in the restaurant business andyou do development, and we had a
great meeting, and I was justgonna consult for, and just do a
little bit of franchisedevelopment for pepper lunch.
But same thing with Halal guys.
I just.
I fell in love with Pepper lunchin 2016 when I was traveling in
(07:32):
Australia.
same exact pattern.
My, my pattern was I, I fell inlove with it while traveling.
I had to be a part of it.
I couldn't just stand still andjust, help them along.
I had to, to jump in.
So, I took my, uh, my originalpartners from Halal guys, a few
of them, and we decided to buythe rights for pepper lunch.
And so, uh, we bought a, uh, 11store development.
(07:52):
Between Southern California andNorthern California and I opened
my first store in February.
Uh, it's doing, aboveexpectations and I'm so happy
about it.
Been well received, and we justsigned a lease on store number
two and, uh, we have a lot morerunway to go.
Um, I still consult here andthere, but uh, pepper lunch has
(08:13):
pretty much taken my entirelife, uh, work-wise.
Jeremy Julian (08:16):
Yeah.
No, and I love, so part of why Ireached out, Paul, and the part
I love about your story, there'sa lot of things that I, I.
Respect about your story is'cause not only are you one of
those people that has seen itfrom both sides, you've been an
owner operator of your ownstore, that you kind of started
from scratch, then you took onanother brand where you're
having to listen to corporate.
(08:36):
Then you were sellingfranchisees.
And so it like, that's the thingthat, that you hold this unique
place that I don't know thatanybody on the show has ever
been in where they've not onlybeen an owner.
They've started something ontheir own.
And again, as I looked at yourbackstory and you shared your
website, I was like, oh, thisisn't the only thing he started,
he's got a whole bunch of otherentrepreneurial ven ventures
that, you know, it's, it's, it'sa wonder your wife, uh, your
(08:59):
wife is able to keep up with youinstead of, uh, she just, she
just makes herself at home inyour office now with all of her
trinkets to make sure that youdon't forget about her.
But, uh, you know, so from, frommy perspective, Paul, yeah,
exactly.
She's watching to make sure thatyou're not playing with her toys
too much.
but in general, the thing that,that I wanted to have our
listeners hear a little bit is,talk to me a little bit about
(09:20):
why the purpose of, as you sitand look at your time at Fran
Smartt, you look for the rightkind of franchisees.
And so I'd love to go down thefranchise route because you've
been doing some of that forPepper lunch, but you're also an
owner operator.
And so I love, I'd love to kindof go down that path because we
have a lot of listeners outthere that are looking for their
next brand and I want to, I wantto.
(09:41):
Have you share?
Troy shared a little bit.
Aaron's been on the show aswell.
Um, Aaron Hooper is just, whatare the things that you would
look for when you were trying tofind a match, whether it was
with, you know, when you were atFran Smart, whether you were
looking at the Five guys thing.
And again, you and I run in someof the same circles.
I know a lot of the same peoplethat you and I will comment on
within LinkedIn.
(10:02):
I'd love for you to sharebecause again, all the time,
people that are listening, theymight be in the middle of Kansas
and they don't know about pepperlunch, but what are the types of
things that you're looking forwhen you go out to talk to a
franchisee?
And then we'll talk about theflip side of where are the
challenges as a franchiseelooking out at corporate as we
continue our conversation.
Paul Tran (10:21):
Yeah, great questions and yes, uh, one size does not
fit all and, there's.
There's a different type of DNAthat's required when it comes to
a franchisee.
I always tell people that ifyou're like a hardcore
entrepreneur and you likecreating things and breaking
rules and all that stuff, thenplease don't inquire.
You should probably create yourown concept, uh, because, uh,
(10:44):
you're not meant to be in a box.
And there's been plenty ofpeople throughout my career who,
you know, early on, like I was,I, I, I didn't know.
Who to look for or what kind offranchisees, you know, I just
thought if you're anentrepreneur, franchising is an
entrepreneurial vehicle.
that's pretty much it.
Right?
And, and it's not the case.
and so it, it, first question isto know, know thyself Like, are
(11:08):
you.
Are you the type that likes tocreate things and break rules
and be disruptive, uh, at, atyour very core?
I, if that's the case, pleasecreate your own.
Like I might even talk to youlater about franchising you,
not, not you becoming afranchisee.
what I've learned throughout mycareer is that there's pretty
good percentage of.
Best in class franchisees whoactually were never set out to
(11:30):
be entrepreneurs at all.
Uh, they actually have thrivedin the corporate space.
They're executives who are usedto managing large teams.
They know how to handle highvolumes of revenue, and, uh,
they are just, they thrive in.
They thrive in a company thatappreciates who they are.
They, there's a mission andvalues that they subscribe to,
(11:53):
and there are protocols and,systems that they, that they
thrive in that like they don'tsee systems and protocols as, as
chains.
They see them as,
Jeremy Julian (12:01):
or as hindrances for them not to be able to
succeed.
I've watched it for, I've beendoing this for 30 years now, and
I love it when I go into afranchise group and I'm like,
that's not the same menu.
Or they added two or three menuitems and you, to your point.
Those probably aren't the rightfranchisees that are looking to
go create their own thing, butput somebody else's logo on the
outside.
(12:22):
I guess on the flip side, whatis the right thing?
Is it those people that youknow, you, you talked about
people, I mean, we are in thepeople business primarily, so
understanding how to, how toattract the right people and and
manage the right set of people.
Is that a big piece of what youlook for?
Paul Tran (12:37):
The, like managing people.
a hundred percent.
It's all people.
I definitely happy to segue intothis.
When one layer is.
When you buy a franchise, thebusiness model and the franchise
vehicle, they're all good anddandy, but what really makes the
difference is the people.
There's no short shortage ofways to make money.
(12:59):
There's no shortage ofopportunities to get excited
about.
At the end of the day, it'sactually the people, like forget
pepper lunch.
Pepper lunch probably carrieslike maybe.
I'm probably gonna get yelled atfor this, but I'd say like
pepper lunch probably is 30% ofthe equation.
70% is who's gonna be supportingyou?
Do you like Troy?
Do you like Paul?
Do you like the people you'regonna be working with and
(13:20):
interacting every day?
It's the people.
there, no, again, there's also,there's a graveyard of Really
cool brands and incredible foodthat just can't be executed
consistently.
Or there's no shortage of, ofbrands that scale to a thousand
stores, but they're riddled withlawsuits and their store
closures everywhere.
but the food was amazing.
That doesn't matter.
It's like, who, who actuallygives.
(13:41):
Crap about your success and whocares about you as a person and
whether you guys actually vibe.
It's a real marriage.
It's like a real marriage.
Not, not like, it's not even a,a metaphor, it's like a true
marriage.
That, and also it kind of, kindof bleeds over to you building a
team with the right people too.
But yes, it's people.
pepper Lunch was, pepper lunchwas the gateway for me, but I, I
(14:03):
moved forward because of Troyand because of the executive
team and because the peoplebehind it, like I know that
they're gonna be, looking outfor my best interests they
actually care in, in, in myindustry.
there's so many bad actors inthe space that, you know, you
hear all the crazy stories ofpeople selling millions of
dollars in franchise fees andrunning off, or franchise.
(14:26):
Franchise.
Jeremy Julian (14:26):
I'm say you might have been associated with one of
those that, that might be in themiddle of a lawsuit.
We don't necessarily have totalk about that, but, but I
still get my Orange County Newsthat, I saw how the, the car
payments might, may not havebeen getting
Paul Tran (14:36):
oh my gosh.
Jeremy Julian (14:37):
with the cash
Paul Tran (14:38):
Okay, Jeremy shots are fired.
Yes.
but that's exactly it.
It makes me so upset because,there's franchisors who are,
they have something so amazing,but they get shortsighted.
or they get greedy and theyforget that franchise, what
franchise fees are for.
they try to develop other waysto like extract value out of
franchisees.
there's, yeah, again, it'speople.
Jeremy Julian (14:59):
Well, and so going down that path, Paul, you,
you've obviously been able to besuccessful in two different
franchise organizations.
What types of things do you lookfor outside of your alignment
with the executive team?
Is it just great food?
Because you could have taken thecash and gone and built a
Domino's or gone and built aPapa John's or gone and built a
a Jersey Mike Subs.
(15:20):
Very well established brandsthat have name recognition and
have TV rights and all of thesekind of things.
But you chose to, you chose togo with a very well-known global
brand currently, um, halal guysbefore that was, you know, was
known well on the east coast andkind of expanding, but you found
a way.
To come in at the early stages.
What made you decide to go downthat route?
(15:42):
Was it just the people?
Was it the vision?
Talk to me a little bit aboutthe things.
'cause one of the things I'm soimpressed with what you and Troy
and Mark and all of the guyshave built at Pepper Lunch is
almost how cookie cutter it is,but not in a bad way.
Cookie cutter.
Cookie cutter in a way that youcan be very successful and make
a good amount of money.
No different than Subway didback in the nineties when they
were just rolling out storesand.
(16:03):
They had the supply chain allfigured out and whatnot.
So I'd love for you becauseagain, we also have listeners
that are like, okay, I want togo, I want to go learn from
Paul.
And what did he find to besuccessful?
'cause you obviously have beensuccessful in one and are in the
process of doing your nextsuccessful launch of, of your 11
stores a pepper lunch.
Paul Tran (16:20):
Yeah.
great question as well.
you're a good interview by theway.
you had a lot of really goodcontext, which is great.
So going back to the first pieceof advice I mentioned in, in a
previous dialogue with you isyou have to know yourself.
one of the things I, I'velearned about myself is that I
like to be part of something newand small, because I want to,
(16:42):
when you work for a really largecompany.
sometimes you become a cog on awheel if you're like the 10000th
subway operator.
I don't know if you feel likeyou are making an impact.
And I feel like when I firstgrew with the Halal guys, we
were their very first West Coastfranchisee
Jeremy Julian (16:59):
I remember I was so excited'cause it was just up
the road from my house.
I was like, dude, I no longerhave to go to New York to go get
this.
Paul Tran (17:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You saved what?
A thousand dollars worth ofairfare and all that.
Jeremy Julian (17:09):
Oh, well I remember when you guys opened
that store, dude, in the tuss,in, in the district.
There was a line out the doorevery day.
I was like, all right, I gottago in my shoulder periods.
'cause I didn't have enough timeto sit and wait.
Sorry.
I'll let you keep going.
But yeah, I think to your point,you like that new, it gives you
enough entrepreneurial, whereasit gives you enough to be able
to grow and make a difference,but not so much that you gotta
(17:30):
do it all on your own and yougotta worry about, about all of
it by yourself.
Sorry, I'll let you keep
Paul Tran (17:34):
no.
That you're a hundred percent onit and I can jump off of that.
it's pretty, but yeah, it's newand small, but.
But it's, it's I guess, aparadox of just being old and
tried and true as well.
I don't, I want them to be twosides of the same coin, because
Halal guys, yes, it's brand newin that it just started
franchising, but it's, and it'snew because.
(17:57):
Gosh, like the place is, thewhole marketplace is riddled
with pizza, coffee, burgers.
but Middle Eastern at the timebefore Kava hit the scene and
Luna Grill and other MiddleEastern competitors, like they
hit the scene.
We were, we were, it wasuntouched.
and so I felt like that's thenew part.
And then the old part is thatit's been around for 30 years.
It's a, it's a, and it's, it'sthe, and the type of food is,
(18:20):
is.
Even deeper than that.
and also the new part is there'sjust a huge gap.
There's a huge demand supplygap.
there's more demand for MiddleEastern food than there is
supply, at least for a fastcasual mainstream.
And so that's the reason why I,I jumped into the HAL log ice.
Same thing with pepper lunch.
I am shocked that Pepper lunchis 550 units.
(18:43):
That's the tried and true, and,but at the same time, it's still
new here in the States, likewith kdr, with K-pop, Asian
culture, ramen, Korean barbecue,there's still that demand supply
gap where, gosh, before us, theonly big innovation is what
Panda expressed.
So, so I saw the same exactpatterns as halal guys, like
(19:05):
Asian food is, is overdue for,for a huge.
Growth spurt.
And so I, yeah, I just knowmyself as wanting to get in
quite early, but at the sametime, not without its, you know,
tried and true template.
Jeremy Julian (19:19):
Yeah, and I can't wait till you guys get stores
close to me.
I know there's a couple that areon the path.
I, I stay connected enough'causeit definitely is, I miss my
Asian food after I left SouthernCalifornia.
It's something that, that Icertainly miss.
Paul Tran (19:30):
Detroit, Detroit.
Tell you where we're coming in
Jeremy Julian (19:33):
yeah, I've got, I've got the Plano store set and
I, I was telling him the lasttime I talked to him a couple
weeks ago that uh, we certainlyneed one in Fort Worth'cause I
live on the Fort Worth side.
But when I'm up that way, andquite frankly every time I'm on
that side of town, I do end upeat, eating Asian food, middle
Eastern food, or Indian food'cause all of it's there and
it's less so on this side oftown.
So, um, I miss it from my SoCaldays.
(19:55):
Paul, you, you've been at someof the early phases, and one of
the things that I continue tosee restaurants struggle with is
the innovation and theconsistency.
I remember when, or I feel likeI remember at Halal guys where
you guys used to make the whitesauce in-house and now it comes
out of a package, or at least Ifeel like it comes out of a
package.
And I, I'd, I'd love to, andagain, at least at the local
(20:16):
store that I have, and I'm noton guys, but I would talk
balance of.
Made from scratch in-house freshfood franchise, along with the
idea that it's gotta stayconsistent so that you can get
it nationwide and scale the waythat you guys are looking to,
'cause I know you guys are doinga lot of that at Pepper lunch as
well, and I'd love to kind ofget your thoughts on that
(20:38):
because it's hard to execute atscale.
It's also hard to, it's hard toexecute at scale, but it's hard
to make sure that you've got theright product if you don't have
systems in place.
And so I'd love for you toexpand upon that a little bit
because I remember when you guysused to make white sauce
in-house and that, I rememberwhen I was like, oh, what
happened here?
It's out of a package, what'sgoing on?
And it's not bad.
(20:58):
The product is still fantastic,but I've watched that
juxtaposition.
Over my time as brands scale,they try and simplify, but
sometimes, not always.
Sometimes they lose part of thebrand in that simplification.
Paul Tran (21:12):
Yeah.
gosh, this is kind of loaded andmaybe it's.
Above my pay grade.
'cause I know that Mark is alittle bit more like, you know,
since he's the COO, he's the onethat's like maniacal about the
quality, with Pepper lunch.
But at, at the Halal guys, theoriginal founders, uh, of the
brand, uh, when they decided tofranchise, they were very
(21:32):
involved throughout the whole.
Process of vetting, co-packersand manufacturers.
And so I think the originalfounders being maniacal and
really giving a crap about thequality of it just was, it had
to start from the top, after.
And they also could not settleas well.
So they probably visited likeover a hundred different, uh,
(21:53):
vendors in order to get to theright supplier.
And it's complicated'cause it'snot just the right.
F maker, but now we need tofigure out how to get it to US
foods and uh, it's a biglogistical nightmare as well.
So it's not just creating andco-packing, but it's also
distribution and, and, and beingable to go nationwide as well.
but yeah, I mean, all I couldsay is in a nutshell, the lead
(22:16):
domino is just the owners needto.
Need to be a part of thatprocess and also stay on top of
it on a regular basis.
Like that's probably the mostimportant thing they do is just
audit it all the time, uh, tokeep'em on your toes.
And same thing with, with, uh,pepper lunch as well.
I mean, the sauces.
we thank goodness our parentcompany is all about supply
(22:38):
chain and logistics.
They're like maniacal about it.
So I'm, I'm really glad thatwe're kind of, I'm kind of
spoiled by that, but, it'sbetter than the idea of making
stuff from scratch.
it's, it sounds really good.
but at the end of the day, weneed to be aware that we are a
franchise.
We're not like a mom and pop.
and so customers care more whenthey visit a franchise that it
(22:59):
tastes the same way every singletime.
it doesn't matter if you sayit's made from scratch, if it
tastes different every weekbecause customers don't trust
you anymore.
And that's, they lose faith inthe franchise system.
So I, I, I'd rather, again, thequality does be good, but it's
made from the top.
We kind of take away thevariability of operators making
stuff in-house.
(23:20):
we'd rather them just executewhat we've given them, at scale.
So I'm glad to say that.
the beauty of the simpleoperations inside of a pepper
lunch is because they've takenthe variability away from us.
We just now need to like,
Jeremy Julian (23:32):
You need to execute day in and day out.
Paul Tran (23:34):
We just need to execute.
That's it.
Jeremy Julian (23:36):
Yeah.
and I think that's a, it's funny'cause what you can make in a
mom and pop, I tell a funnystory.
I was, at RLC with, Pete Riggs,the time that I first met you,
Pete, I don't know if Pete.
but Pete was testing some saucesfor pita pit and he had brought
them in and we were testing, Idon't remember exactly what the
sauce was.
Um, I think it was the Takisauce for his pita pit.
And I was like, okay, when areyou gonna get it on the menu?
(23:56):
and it was something related tolactose and whatnot.
He's like.
Unfortunately, I can't, I gottafigure out how to mass produce
this at scale, so I can't.
And so to, to your point ofbeing maniacal, I was like,
dude, that was some of the mostamazing sauce I've ever had.
And he's like, I can't get itout because I can't execute it
over and over and over again.
So I've gotta continue to goback to the drawing board.
And again, I've watched acrossthe, across the chains, and
(24:19):
especially having moved to Texasfrom California, I watch
California brands get here.
And I'm like, it's not the same.
It's not the same as what I gotback there.
And then you go to other brandswhere.
Across the board, they'vefigured out how to execute in a
way that you're like, oh, theydo get it.
It's the exact same look.
It's the exact same feel.
It's the exact same culture.
And so I love that you have saton both sides of that and
(24:40):
consider that whether it comesout of a package or it's
homemade, in-house, justunderstanding that consistency
is key is really critical toensuring that you can be
successful across the board.
Paul Tran (24:51):
For sure, a hundred percent.
Jeremy Julian (24:53):
Yeah.
So I'm gonna pivot here just fora little bit, Paul, about the
relationship between thefranchisee and the franchisor.
you've been on both sides, andI'm sharing that because you
talked about the fallacies ofI'm an entrepreneur, I'm gonna
go do it all myself, and then,you know, and, and there's times
that there's tension.
There's healthy tension and thenthere's unhealthy tension within
(25:14):
the franchise community.
I just was on one of the early,yeah, just yesterday I recorded
a show with one of the early,Freddy's franchisees.
He was there when they were atstore seven and grew it to the
500 stores.
And then he has since sold,they, they've sold it off.
He was with the originalfounder.
He was the seventh franchisee.
Um, I think he's got a littleunder a hundred stores now.
He's starting a coffee brand.
He is got another sandwich brandin Phoenix.
(25:35):
But it was cool just talking tohim a little bit about that.
And so I'd love to.
Have you share?
Where are the healthy places topush back on your franchisor,
and where are the unhealthy waysthat you can educate our
listeners that you've watched,whether it was yourself or
you've watched when you're atFran Smart, the healthy ways to
push the brand to be better andthe unhealthy ways where you're
like, that's probably going tohurt something.
(25:57):
And ultimately either turn intoa lawsuit or a store that's not
succeeding because of it.
Paul Tran (26:02):
Yeah.
the best way to answer this isthere's a way to eliminate 90%
of the friction.
If we choose the rightfranchisee early on, it's no
different than choosing theright mate soulmate.
Like there's so many problemsthat can get overlooked and
overcome if you just choose theright person and if you take
your time to choose it.
(26:23):
and so it's more like measure.
It's the whole what?
Measure twice, cut once.
It's like measure 20 times andthen cut once.
So I will tell you that, if you.
Yeah, not all franchise fees arethe same.
Not all partners are the same.
Like, take your time.
I know if you're a little bitmore picky early on, you might
grow slower, but you'll growproperly and probably grow for a
(26:44):
long period of time.
and so that's my first piece ofadvice.
But if you've already like,moved, moved through, uh, and,
and there's alreadyrelationships in place, um, a
lot of it's just communicatingexpectations.
Right, right from the get go.
It's, it's more like, Hey, Ijust want you to know that
you're signing on to follow thesystem and you being able to
(27:05):
give the customer the same exactexp experience at Tustin is
gonna be the same exactexperience at Costa Mea and, and
the same exact experience inDallas.
Uh, like that, that matters morethan one incredible idea that
just cannot be scaled.
it, it doesn't matter if itcannot be scaled, so just having
(27:26):
compassion on the franchisorbecause yeah, you have
franchisees have like a selfishneed to be, to do things better,
do things differently, or dothings to your DDNA.
But, but the franchisor has amuch bigger responsibility to
make sure it can be done atscale and consistently so
franchisees need that kind ofcompassion.
however, when it comes to ideas.
(27:50):
Innovations.
we're, we are a good franchisoris aware that the best way to
get intel is on the front linesand your franchisees are on the
front lines.
And the beauty is, you know,Troy and I were, we're in a lot
of discovery days where I like,I love it when Troy mentions
that, Hey, I just want to letyou know that, you know, did you
(28:10):
know that McDonald's chickennuggets and Big Mac and egg
McMuffin, did you know what,where, what.
Jeremy Julian (28:16):
They came from franchisees.
I was about to tell that exactsame story.
They came directly fromfranchisees trying to meet a
meal period, and maybe they weregoing off script, but ultimately
it turned into some of theirmost successful products,
Paul Tran (28:28):
Yes, but that's in sequence.
Those were recommended byfranchisees who were following
the system at a high level andexecuted at a high level when
they followed the system and didincredible job.
You've earned the respect of thefranchisor, and you've earned
the right to make suggestions.
Like no one's going to listento.
(28:49):
A franchisor should not belistening to a franchisee who's
already breaking rules and outtacompliance right off the
Jeremy Julian (28:54):
Yeah.
Is not making any money andhasn't had a successful store
and hasn't hit half of theirtargets for, they were supposed
to open 11 stores and they'reown store one and a half and
they still aren't even projectedto ever get to store three.
Yeah.
You definitely don't wanna betalking to those people.
And to your point at thebeginning, making sure that the
marriage.
Is built on the right foundationis huge in the beginning and
I've watched too manyfranchisees and franchisors that
(29:16):
try and grow so fast.
and I know quite frankly, I'vewatched too many of them grow so
fast and fail.
And it's a shame.
It's really a shame because theproduct is fantastic, but then
they get a few boat anchors offranchisees that take them away
from the core of what they'redoing.
'cause as a franchisor, you haveto manage those guys pretty
significantly, and it takes alot of resources to ensure that.
(29:36):
You can either get them back incompliance or you fire them and,
and that's legal and a whole lotof crap there.
And that's, that's hard too,right?
Paul Tran (29:43):
Oh, a hundred percent.
It goes back to make sure youchoose the right partner first.
Jeremy Julian (29:47):
Yeah.
Paul Tran (29:48):
So with with Troy, like, it's interesting because
you know, most small brands,emerging brands, they.
They're hungry to grow.
They need the capital.
Right?
And they, they're excited forgrowth.
And so sometimes they have goodintentions, but man, sometimes
they overlook a lot of like badthere.
it's one of those things wherenow that after a bad franchisee
closes stores or you get into alawsuit, you're like, you look
(30:09):
back just like a, a datingrelationship man.
There were signs.
There were signs.
Jeremy Julian (30:14):
you just had bedroom eyes when you were
looking at it and you're like,no.
They're gonna be fine.
They're gonna be fine.
Paul Tran (30:19):
I'm spoiled because Pepper lunches parent company is
like.
One of the largest privateequity firms.
So again, I'm super spoiled.
Like we're not in a crazy likerush to like make a ton of money
off franchise fees.
We can grow slowly and surely.
Um, but I will say I hope thatthe franchisor that is not.
Backed by private equity.
I hope their concept is just areally profitable concept on its
(30:42):
own.
And they don't need to sellfranchises in order to be
profitable.
And they can wait for the rightfranchisee to come along and
they can say no more than theysay yes.
and yeah, just wanna leave it atthat.
Jeremy Julian (30:53):
And I think that's huge.
I think that's great advice, andI think I wish more restaurant
brands would do that.
Unfortunately.
I think all too many times thefounders want to get out and get
their payday.
They wanna sell as many as theycan.
Get that big private equitycheck that somebody came in and
bought the brand and now they,it's not their problem anymore.
And, uh, unfortunately I'vewatched too many founders watch
their baby die slowly on thevine because they, they let go
(31:14):
of it.
but.
to each their own.
There's not a whole lot you cando, and I think, uh, your advice
is great.
one last line of questioning,Paul.
When you go to open in a newcommunity, I'd love for you to
talk about the things thatyou've found to be tried and
true to help grow.
You talked about your, yourfirst store there in Irvine.
It's, you know, I dunno, 6, 5, 6miles from the original store I
(31:35):
think that I had ever gone to.
It's not too far away, but thebrand recognition, it's not like
everybody walking down thestreet when they tell people
pepper lunch, they're like, whatis Pepper?
What is a pepper lunch?
I'm sure you hear that.
So what did you do to besuccessful?
'cause you replaced anotherbrand that.
Was in that concept, it was inthat space that was or wasn't
successful.
Doesn't matter.
I, I, I know that mall really,really well.
(31:56):
but I'd love for you to talkabout that and as you're going
to your second store and thirdstore, what have you seen
franchisees do well, and wheredo you think they've, you've
watched people spin their wheelswhere the juice wasn't worth the
squeeze to, to share with someof our listeners out there that
might be looking to expand intoanother region, looking to
expand to another store and theyknow they need to pick the
right.
(32:17):
Real estate number one, butnumber two, what are some of the
things that you've found to bethe most successful for you and
other brands that you, uh, thatyou've worked with and talked
with?
Paul Tran (32:24):
Yeah.
good question.
And yeah, there, there's a lot,there's a big story behind that
store before we turned intopepper lunch.
Jeremy Julian (32:31):
we might have alluded to it
Paul Tran (32:33):
that's part two.
Part two.
but, yes, real estate again,lead domino.
All the, most of your problemscan go away or can be overcome
by just incredible real estate.
So that's also something youneed to measure 20 times and cut
once.
and the rent there is not cheap,but I do
Jeremy Julian (32:51):
And your landlord's not the easiest to
work with.
I'm not gonna lie
Paul Tran (32:54):
well there they're a joy.
if we are a good
Jeremy Julian (32:56):
if things are working.
Yes, absolutely.
I think we've got 20 customersin that same mall with you, and
I've watched both it besuccessful when things are going
well and then the opposite, but,sorry.
I'll let you keep
Paul Tran (33:07):
No, no, all good.
It's funny, we can have allthese side conversations, I
swear.
but as, as far as, what works asfar as maybe marketing and
community outreach, I'm a littlebit spoiled by Irvine Spectrum,
of course, but I'll kind ofoverlap that with my time with,
with Halal guys as well.
At the end of the day, uh, wesee all of our restaurants next
to us as friends and comrades inbattle.
(33:28):
Uh, we're not competing againstShake Shack and Silverlake Ramen
and all those guys.
We actually hope that they do sowell that they're, they have a
bunch of customers waiting andthey're not willing to wait, and
they come to visit us.
We also hope that our store isso busy that people are
unwilling to wait for us andthey decide to visit Silver Lake
Ramen or Shake Shack.
we've just formed a lot ofreally good friendships with our
neighbors.
(33:48):
we're really good friends withthem.
We give, uh, all of our, uh.
Our neighbors, you know,discounts on food and we do hook
them up here and there.
Uh, because we want them to alsorave about us too, just like we
wanna rave about them.
So we kind, I think thatcreating that comradery and
community amongst, operators ishelpful.
On that same point, we alsostarted our, our soft openings
(34:12):
by just giving away a ton offree food.
Same strategy as like Costco,right?
When you're at Costco, the bestway to buy something is after
you've already trialed it, likeas, as a free sample.
There's no better marketing thanthat,
Jeremy Julian (34:23):
so Panda was the killer of that in the shopping
malls back in the day when wewere youth.
walking around the mall, alittle bit of orange chicken,
you're like, oh yes, I'll have atwo item combo.
Paul Tran (34:30):
And it's crazy because, uh, you know the story,
but most people might not know.
But orange chicken was nevereven originally on the menu.
they had to force it downpeople's throats through free
samples.
Now it's like the, the thing.
So that's another lesson aboutlike.
You know, just getting startedand, and uh, kind of letting the
market kind of figure, uh,reveal, innovations for you.
(34:50):
but we just did a lot of, freefood.
Uh, we let people in thecommunity try the food.
we did train our staff to, youknow, be very educational.
'cause when, when customers getto learn new things, that kind
of like gives them a dopaminerush.
Uh, and so, so being able to goout and just teach people about
what pepper lunch is, it, Ithink everyone's kind of like
(35:12):
the bright, shiny objectsyndrome, right?
So you, you can use that to youradvantage.
Um, and then we just s try tosupport like all the local
schools and sports and just theusual stuff and, and, uh, we do
it that way.
But, yeah.
Oh, and also also social media.
One of the things is that we, wetry our best to reach out to
social media.
(35:33):
Content creators who aresmaller, uh, and are focused on
the local market.
you know, a lot of people talkhave this bad stigma of like
social media influencers wherethey have like a million
followers and they charge like$5,000 for a post.
those aren't as as effectivebecause they're more audiences
are all over the worldsometimes, and when you post it
(35:54):
doesn't really, it's kind oflike.
It's kind of like a, a shotgunwhere you're not really sure
what who's gonna get hit, right?
Like, but it's, we like to goafter like small content
creators who maybe have maybe acouple hundred followers.
and they're local to the market.
They're a lot more amenable.
They are looking for content.
Their customers, even thoughthey don't have a million
(36:16):
followers, like a goodpercentage, are actually our
local.
Our local customers that weactually serve.
And that's been really, reallyfruitful for us as well.
So that's that.
There's a bunch of other thingswe do do, but I, I'd say that
those are the strategies wealways make sure to incorporate.
Um,
Jeremy Julian (36:32):
Yeah.
And the one other thing thatI've watched you guys do really
is be responsive to your guests.
You guys are really good abouttaking the feedback and
responding on social orotherwise to, whether that's
modify the changes or getfeedback from them.
And even if they didn't have thebest experience.
'cause we all know not everyexperience when we go out to
dine is gonna be the best.
At the same time.
When they know that you hearthem and you see them and you're
(36:53):
there with them, they're willingto oftentimes give you a second
or even a third chance if youscrew up.
Paul Tran (36:57):
For sure.
And a lot of times they're noteven, yeah, like you said,
they're not even looking for arefund or anything.
They just want to feel likethey're heard and their stuff
matters.
so just acknowledging that isalready An opportunity to create
raving fans,
Jeremy Julian (37:09):
Love it.
so since you're the pepper lunchguy, for those that haven't
heard Troy's episode, why don'tyou give everybody a 32nd primer
or a one minute primer?
What is Pepper lunch?
I've been, I'm a huge fan.
Can't wait till there's oneclose.
I will be a frequent customer.
You might get selfies from meout in front of the store, but,
what is a pepper lunch and whatis the concept that there's 500
plus of them overseas that,that, you guys are gonna blow up
(37:30):
here in the states here in thenext couple years?
Paul Tran (37:31):
Make sure one of the selfies has me in it too.
but no pepper lunch is, Gosh,the way I would describe it is
it's a DIY teki concept.
I usually tell people if you'rea fan of like Benihana, it's
like it's being able to havefood being made by a chef, uh,
with theatrics and being able toshow, see your food being made
fresh.
Uh, but because it's DIY, you'reactually the chef.
(37:55):
And so when you place an orderwith us, We are actually just
assembling food in a, in a hotplate that goes up to, that gets
heated up to 500 degrees.
Uh, and our staff simply putsthe proteins, the rice, and the
toppings that you ask for, butwe send it out to you so that
you can be part of the process,uh, be part of the cooking,
become your own chef, cook itexactly how you like it.
(38:17):
And I love the concept because Ithink nowadays people aren't
just looking to buy things.
Uh, they're looking for anexperience.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and.
And to make something their own.
And so, being able to make theirfood their own, makes'em feel a
little bit more bought in.
I feel like it actually fostersloyalty.
and it also helps that they lovetaking photos and videos and,
(38:39):
uh, do the marketing for us onsocial media
Jeremy Julian (38:42):
and it's also lots of customization.
If you want to, you cancustomize your sausage, you can
customize your proteins, you cancustomize your starches quite a
bit, and so you've got almostunlimited options.
Is that fair?
Paul Tran (38:53):
super fair.
And what's what I love about theconcept, from consumer
standpoint, yes, you get tocustomize, you do part of the
process.
it's just such a fun thing todo, and it's like an affordable,
luxury, affordableentertainment.
but on the operator side, it'sbrilliant because you're,
because the customer is doingthe cooking, Our staff in the
back doesn't have to do thecooking.
So no li
Jeremy Julian (39:13):
it's all assembly.
Paul Tran (39:14):
minimal liabilities, and, very low staff needed.
and so it's actually easier tooperate and a lot more
profitable for an operator.
So it's the best of both worlds.
I, again, I don't think I couldhave appreciated unless I
operated like a busy, complexoperation like Halal guys.
'cause Halal guys, when it wasbusy, we had stores that did.
Anywhere from two to 4 millionand we needed, during the busy
(39:36):
times, we needed like 13, 14people.
Jeremy Julian (39:39):
Well, and you guys are shaving the meat all
day long and you gotta get it onthere and it's gotta get cooked
it right away.
I mean, yeah, no, it's a lot,there's a lot of work that goes
into that.
Not that there's not a lot ofwork in a, in a pepper lunch.
One real, real quick thing, just'cause again, I'm a huge fan of
the brand.
it is, participated in a fastcasual type environment.
It is not like Benny Hana'swhere you gotta sit in front of
a chef, you're going to thecounter and ordering and then
they're delivering your food toyou or picking it up at the, at
(40:01):
the window type of thing.
So just for those that haven'texperienced it,'cause you guys
are gonna start seeing pepperlunches all over the place.
Paul Tran (40:06):
Yes, a hundred percent.
And thank you for clarifyingthat.
Yeah, it's hard because it's sounique that you, there's not
much that I can really explain.
you can say it's like Koreanbarbecue, but you get your own
plate.
Jeremy Julian (40:16):
Yeah, it's like beep and bop maybe.
but that's you can't, that's nota nationwide thing at the end of
the day.
I know it'cause I lived inSouthern California and I used
to go to the H Mart right therein that same
Paul Tran (40:25):
Oh
Jeremy Julian (40:25):
the, as the original one.
There used to be a beep and bopplace, Korean, where all of it's
in the bowl and you mix it alltogether.
So that's how I equate it, ifsomebody's familiar with it.
Paul Tran (40:32):
Yeah.
Even though it's hard toexplain.
Same thing with Hal guys, whereI really believe that, middle
Eastern and Mediterranean foodis over, was overdue for, for
disruption and for someone totake a leadership position.
Uh, Hal guys is definitely upthere, but of course Kava is
like pretty much the mostpopular well-known one I'd say.
I'd say Pepper Lunch is verysimilar right now.
There's just Panda Express.
(40:54):
There's like maybe.
I, yeah, there's no one else.
And so I, I really believe thatthis has the mainstream appeal
because Yeah.
Right.
We're starting to see, like alot of non-Asians come in the, a
lot of folks that are adoptingit very similarly to where Halal
guys, you know, it's not justattracting the Middle Eastern
medi chain customer, but peoplefrom all walks of life and just
(41:16):
mainstream.
So I, I like to see it's, it'svery similar.
Jeremy Julian (41:20):
Love that.
last question.
What is your go-to and whatwould you recommend a first
timer come in and get?
You're a restaurant guy, so I'msure you modify the crap out of
it, or you have a bunch of wackystuff.
Try.
I asked Troy that question andhe is I do this with this.
And I'm like, dude, that's noton the menu anyway.
He is like, yeah, I know.
You're right.
I, I make it up myself.
But, I guess what's the go-tofor somebody their very first
time at PEPPER Lunch?
What would you recommend theyget?
(41:41):
And then for you, what is yourkind of go-to?
what are you, consistently goingand getting at this
Paul Tran (41:45):
Yeah.
Um, so as a gateway, 50% of oursale, 50% of most of our stores,
are the introduction.
Three item is the jumble beef,pepper, rice, uh, that's
certified Angus beef, toppedwith rice and corn and, and all
sorts of really, and all sortsof signature sauce.
Uh, and also our, proprietarypepper margin.
(42:06):
Uh, it's incredible.
I mean, if you eat it on yourown, I think you can't go wrong.
and my go-to my go-to is, I likethe, kimchi chicken pepper rice.
Shocked by how good it is.
and it's one of those thingswhere, you go there and your
default is something, but everytime I try, I'm like, oh my
(42:26):
gosh, I just can't believe I, Idon't eat order this enough.
kimchi, chicken, pepper, rice.
Jeremy Julian (42:30):
Yeah.
No, I, I go every time I'm thereI'm like, okay, I gotta try
something else.
so Paul, thank you so much forsharing your wisdom, man.
I know we've been, we've beentalking about getting together
for quite some time and I lovethat we got a chance to, to
share what you've learned.
How do people get in touch withyou?
How do people get in touch aboutpepper lunch?
I guess tell'em how to stayconnected so that they can,
continue to be a fan of yourslike I have been for the last
couple years watching youonline.
Paul Tran (42:51):
Oh, thank you Jeremy.
and again, thank you for havingme here.
And, the best way to reach outis.
I think the best way is toconnect with me on LinkedIn.
I feel like that's where I getto share my thoughts and
insights, without a lot offilter.
And I get to show you what I'mworking on and who I really am.
so yes, find me on LinkedIn.
It's linkedin.com/in/ Paul Tran.
(43:13):
So there's two T's in there.
I think that's the best wayforward.
so yeah, looking forward to talkwith anyone and be of help, in
any way possible.
Jeremy Julian (43:21):
Awesome.
Paul, thank you so much and likeI said to our listeners guys,
you guys have got lots ofchoices, so thanks for hanging
out.
If you haven't alreadysubscribed, please do And, when
you're in a town where there's apepper lunch, please check it
out and let us know how you likeit and, make it a great day.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Thanks for listening to The Restaurant Technology
Guys podcast.
Visit restaurant technologyguys.com for tips, industry
insights, and more to help yourun your restaurant better.
This is the Restaurant Technology Guides podcast,
helping you run your restaurantbetter.
Welcome back to the RestaurantTechnology Guys podcast.
And today's episode is one of myfavorite episodes because Paul
and I have been chasing eachother for a while to get'em on
(00:24):
the show.
Uh, if you ever dreamed ofbuilding a restaurant brand,
scaling a franchise group or so,listening to someone that turned
crawfish deliveries into amultimillion dollar business.
Paul is your guy.
Uh, for those that know Paul,he's just an amazing dude that,
uh, is a, a consum anentrepreneur, but he is really
helped franchisees grow, uh, inlots of different ways.
(00:47):
The, um, he's now helping toexpand the Pepper Lunch
franchise group, but in the pasthe has lots of different
experiences working with Halalguys and some other concepts.
He and I talked quite a bitabout what it looks like to
learn and grow and scale in therestaurant industry.
Whether you're a franchiseehoping to open more restaurants,
(01:08):
or you just love a goodentrepreneurial story about
somebody that's made it, Paul isyour guy.
So check out the episode, hangout till the end where he and I
talk a little bit about some ofthe things that were his best
lessons and some of the greatfood that he's eaten.
Over the years in the differentgroups of restaurants that he is
worked in.
If you don't know me, my name isJeremy Julian.
I'm the Chief Revenue Officerfor CBS North Star.
(01:29):
We sell the North Star point ofsale product for multi-unit
restaurants.
Please check usout@cbsnorthstar.com and now
onto the episode.
Jeremy Julian (01:40):
welcome back to the Restaurant Technology Guys
podcast.
I thank everyone out there forjoining us.
As I like to say, on the onsetof every one of these episodes.
I know you guys got lots ofchoices, so thanks for hanging
out.
I have a, a, a very specialguest today and, and it's kind
of funny because I had beenfollowing Paul for quite some
time, even before Paul knew whoI was.
I'd been following Paul and hisjourney all really through
(02:01):
restaurants.
And so Paul, why don't youintroduce yourself a little bit.
I know you and I got to meet inperson just earlier this year,
at a trade show, but, who isPaul Tran?
tell me a little bit about yourbackstory and then we'll talk
about how I've been followingthe different brands as you guys
have gone and your learnings andwhat you're doing.
Most recently,
Paul Tran (02:17):
For sure, Jeremy.
And, along that same line ofwhat you started with, audience
has tons of choices and theychoose you.
I wanna say the same thing toyou.
you have plenty of people.
In your network as well.
So I'm honored that you wouldchoose me and hopefully there's
a, hopefully there's a way Icould be of service and be
insightful to this.
So thank you again, Jeremy.
Jeremy Julian (02:33):
I'm certain you will.
Paul Tran (02:35):
Uh, well, for myself, I've, I've been in the
restaurant and the franchiseworld for about 20 years.
and I got into the industry likemost people by accident and, uh,
and because I was just hungry,uh, and, I'll let you poke holes
at what you think is the mostinteresting or deserves a little
bit more elaboration.
(02:55):
But, essentially I, I started, Igot into the business by just
blowing some student loan moneywhile I was still in college.
I thought I could.
I thought, how hard can therestaurant business be?
Let's create a cool concept.
I was frustrated with, how busya certain restaurant was here in
Southern California.
and I wanted to scratch my ownitch.
(03:16):
I was like, I don't wanna waitanymore.
Let me just create my own stuffand kind of get high off my own
supply, uh, and, and justignorance, confidence, and
borrowed money.
Uh, just allowed me to just getinto the business.
Uh, and it's an amazing thingwhen you're, when you're naive
and when you're young,'cause youyour arrogance and your
confidence kind of like overlookand, and minimize all the real
(03:38):
obstacles that tend to be in theway when you're trying to do
something, like start a businessor learn how to cook.
Uh, and so I got really lucky.
I built a really coolrestaurant, uh, that served
Cajun crawfish shipped, directlyfrom Louisiana Every day.
I have stories of me, driving mylittle Honda Civic to John Wayne
Airport every day to thewarehouse, to to the cargo hold
(04:00):
where I would pick up 10 to 20boxes of, uh, crawfish directly
from.
Louisiana shipped to Houston.
Houston shipped to John Wayne.
Uh, and so my car always smelledlike crawfish and wasn't helpful
for the dating life.
Jeremy Julian (04:15):
Yeah, I was gonna say the dating life rally was
like, whoa, what's going onhere?
Paul Tran (04:18):
it's not gonna get hot and steamy in the car for
sure.
but, uh, but no, it, when you'reyoung and, and you just
bootstrap and you have naive,but you have a lot of grit, just
did whatever I needed to do tosucceed in the business.
And, um, yeah, just built areally good restaurant that
eventually got sold.
I got acquired, um, by a privateinvestor that bought me out
after three years of, uh, of asuccessful run.
(04:40):
and that pretty much.
Jumpstarted me, uh, to therestaurant business.
I was just fascinated by food.
How, When you're hungry or whenyou need to decompress or you
want to celebrate life's biggestmoments, or you just wanna hang
out with a friend, always thecommon denominator is food.
and so I decided to just pursueit a little bit further from the
(05:01):
business side and, just a lotof.
Chance events allowed me tostart consulting other
restaurants, learn the businessfrom, some mentors that, took me
under their wing.
if you're familiar with Dan Rowefrom TranSMART, I ended up
working for him for 10 years.
and, uh, had a chance to seefive guys.
inaction when there was justlike a few stores when they only
(05:22):
had like five locations, to, youknow, over a thousand locations
around the world.
so I got to see what it took fora small mom and pop unassuming
brand, uh, reach escapevelocity.
and I also learned a lot aboutwhat brands should not do and
brands that didn't make it.
Uh, and it was during that timethat I built knowledge.
Connections capital.
(05:44):
and uh, that was when there wasa ti uh, 2000, let's see, 2000,
1214 is when the, uh, the Halalguys decided to franchise and
they became a brand in ourportfolio in f March portfolio.
And at that time, I, I just hadthis itch to jump back in the
business.
Like you, Jeremy, I know you'rea fan of all guys.
(06:05):
Same thing.
Uh, I first fell in love withthe brand, just traveling to New
York, lining up, uh, at thecarts, and I just, I had to be a
part of it, not just from aconsulting.
Uh, capacity.
So I ended up wearing both hatsand I consulted for them
globally, and I also became afranchisee for them in Southern
California.
and I knew I couldn't do italone.
and so I built a team, raised alittle bit of capital, and,
(06:28):
built, an organization that wentto 11 stores.
We did lose two stores, uh,during the pandemic.
Um, but we did a healthy 15 to$20 million a year in annual
sales.
Uh, and we were continuing tobuild more, but we got
approached by a hospitalitycompany that wanted to add, food
to their portfolio.
So they made an offer.
And, two years ago I ended up,uh, closing the sale of, of my
(06:50):
company.
Sold the company and, uh, justcontinued to consult some more.
And, and I wasn't planning ongetting into the business again.
My wife told me that if I got itback into the business, she
would kill me and, and, uh, andthen divorce me.
but here we are because I, Ialso, I decided to, I fell in
love with Pepper lunch.
(07:10):
Uh, you and I know Troy, uh,Troy actually reached out to me.
Uh, he, he cold DMed me andsaid, Hey, I heard that you are
in the restaurant business andyou do development, and we had a
great meeting, and I was justgonna consult for, and just do a
little bit of franchisedevelopment for pepper lunch.
But same thing with Halal guys.
I just.
I fell in love with Pepper lunchin 2016 when I was traveling in
(07:32):
Australia.
same exact pattern.
My, my pattern was I, I fell inlove with it while traveling.
I had to be a part of it.
I couldn't just stand still andjust, help them along.
I had to, to jump in.
So, I took my, uh, my originalpartners from Halal guys, a few
of them, and we decided to buythe rights for pepper lunch.
And so, uh, we bought a, uh, 11store development.
(07:52):
Between Southern California andNorthern California and I opened
my first store in February.
Uh, it's doing, aboveexpectations and I'm so happy
about it.
Been well received, and we justsigned a lease on store number
two and, uh, we have a lot morerunway to go.
Um, I still consult here andthere, but uh, pepper lunch has
(08:13):
pretty much taken my entirelife, uh, work-wise.
Jeremy Julian (08:16):
Yeah.
No, and I love, so part of why Ireached out, Paul, and the part
I love about your story, there'sa lot of things that I, I.
Respect about your story is'cause not only are you one of
those people that has seen itfrom both sides, you've been an
owner operator of your ownstore, that you kind of started
from scratch, then you took onanother brand where you're
having to listen to corporate.
(08:36):
Then you were sellingfranchisees.
And so it like, that's the thingthat, that you hold this unique
place that I don't know thatanybody on the show has ever
been in where they've not onlybeen an owner.
They've started something ontheir own.
And again, as I looked at yourbackstory and you shared your
website, I was like, oh, thisisn't the only thing he started,
he's got a whole bunch of otherentrepreneurial ven ventures
that, you know, it's, it's, it'sa wonder your wife, uh, your
(08:59):
wife is able to keep up with youinstead of, uh, she just, she
just makes herself at home inyour office now with all of her
trinkets to make sure that youdon't forget about her.
But, uh, you know, so from, frommy perspective, Paul, yeah,
exactly.
She's watching to make sure thatyou're not playing with her toys
too much.
but in general, the thing that,that I wanted to have our
listeners hear a little bit is,talk to me a little bit about
(09:20):
why the purpose of, as you sitand look at your time at Fran
Smartt, you look for the rightkind of franchisees.
And so I'd love to go down thefranchise route because you've
been doing some of that forPepper lunch, but you're also an
owner operator.
And so I love, I'd love to kindof go down that path because we
have a lot of listeners outthere that are looking for their
next brand and I want to, I wantto.
(09:41):
Have you share?
Troy shared a little bit.
Aaron's been on the show aswell.
Um, Aaron Hooper is just, whatare the things that you would
look for when you were trying tofind a match, whether it was
with, you know, when you were atFran Smart, whether you were
looking at the Five guys thing.
And again, you and I run in someof the same circles.
I know a lot of the same peoplethat you and I will comment on
within LinkedIn.
(10:02):
I'd love for you to sharebecause again, all the time,
people that are listening, theymight be in the middle of Kansas
and they don't know about pepperlunch, but what are the types of
things that you're looking forwhen you go out to talk to a
franchisee?
And then we'll talk about theflip side of where are the
challenges as a franchiseelooking out at corporate as we
continue our conversation.
Paul Tran (10:21):
Yeah, great questions and yes, uh, one size does not
fit all and, there's.
There's a different type of DNAthat's required when it comes to
a franchisee.
I always tell people that ifyou're like a hardcore
entrepreneur and you likecreating things and breaking
rules and all that stuff, thenplease don't inquire.
You should probably create yourown concept, uh, because, uh,
(10:44):
you're not meant to be in a box.
And there's been plenty ofpeople throughout my career who,
you know, early on, like I was,I, I, I didn't know.
Who to look for or what kind offranchisees, you know, I just
thought if you're anentrepreneur, franchising is an
entrepreneurial vehicle.
that's pretty much it.
Right?
And, and it's not the case.
and so it, it, first question isto know, know thyself Like, are
(11:08):
you.
Are you the type that likes tocreate things and break rules
and be disruptive, uh, at, atyour very core?
I, if that's the case, pleasecreate your own.
Like I might even talk to youlater about franchising you,
not, not you becoming afranchisee.
what I've learned throughout mycareer is that there's pretty
good percentage of.
Best in class franchisees whoactually were never set out to
(11:30):
be entrepreneurs at all.
Uh, they actually have thrivedin the corporate space.
They're executives who are usedto managing large teams.
They know how to handle highvolumes of revenue, and, uh,
they are just, they thrive in.
They thrive in a company thatappreciates who they are.
They, there's a mission andvalues that they subscribe to,
(11:53):
and there are protocols and,systems that they, that they
thrive in that like they don'tsee systems and protocols as, as
chains.
They see them as,
Jeremy Julian (12:01):
or as hindrances for them not to be able to
succeed.
I've watched it for, I've beendoing this for 30 years now, and
I love it when I go into afranchise group and I'm like,
that's not the same menu.
Or they added two or three menuitems and you, to your point.
Those probably aren't the rightfranchisees that are looking to
go create their own thing, butput somebody else's logo on the
outside.
(12:22):
I guess on the flip side, whatis the right thing?
Is it those people that youknow, you, you talked about
people, I mean, we are in thepeople business primarily, so
understanding how to, how toattract the right people and and
manage the right set of people.
Is that a big piece of what youlook for?
Paul Tran (12:37):
The, like managing people.
a hundred percent.
It's all people.
I definitely happy to segue intothis.
When one layer is.
When you buy a franchise, thebusiness model and the franchise
vehicle, they're all good anddandy, but what really makes the
difference is the people.
There's no short shortage ofways to make money.
(12:59):
There's no shortage ofopportunities to get excited
about.
At the end of the day, it'sactually the people, like forget
pepper lunch.
Pepper lunch probably carrieslike maybe.
I'm probably gonna get yelled atfor this, but I'd say like
pepper lunch probably is 30% ofthe equation.
70% is who's gonna be supportingyou?
Do you like Troy?
Do you like Paul?
Do you like the people you'regonna be working with and
(13:20):
interacting every day?
It's the people.
there, no, again, there's also,there's a graveyard of Really
cool brands and incredible foodthat just can't be executed
consistently.
Or there's no shortage of, ofbrands that scale to a thousand
stores, but they're riddled withlawsuits and their store
closures everywhere.
but the food was amazing.
That doesn't matter.
It's like, who, who actuallygives.
(13:41):
Crap about your success and whocares about you as a person and
whether you guys actually vibe.
It's a real marriage.
It's like a real marriage.
Not, not like, it's not even a,a metaphor, it's like a true
marriage.
That, and also it kind of, kindof bleeds over to you building a
team with the right people too.
But yes, it's people.
pepper Lunch was, pepper lunchwas the gateway for me, but I, I
(14:03):
moved forward because of Troyand because of the executive
team and because the peoplebehind it, like I know that
they're gonna be, looking outfor my best interests they
actually care in, in, in myindustry.
there's so many bad actors inthe space that, you know, you
hear all the crazy stories ofpeople selling millions of
dollars in franchise fees andrunning off, or franchise.
(14:26):
Franchise.
Jeremy Julian (14:26):
I'm say you might have been associated with one of
those that, that might be in themiddle of a lawsuit.
We don't necessarily have totalk about that, but, but I
still get my Orange County Newsthat, I saw how the, the car
payments might, may not havebeen getting
Paul Tran (14:36):
oh my gosh.
Jeremy Julian (14:37):
with the cash
Paul Tran (14:38):
Okay, Jeremy shots are fired.
Yes.
but that's exactly it.
It makes me so upset because,there's franchisors who are,
they have something so amazing,but they get shortsighted.
or they get greedy and theyforget that franchise, what
franchise fees are for.
they try to develop other waysto like extract value out of
franchisees.
there's, yeah, again, it'speople.
Jeremy Julian (14:59):
Well, and so going down that path, Paul, you,
you've obviously been able to besuccessful in two different
franchise organizations.
What types of things do you lookfor outside of your alignment
with the executive team?
Is it just great food?
Because you could have taken thecash and gone and built a
Domino's or gone and built aPapa John's or gone and built a
a Jersey Mike Subs.
(15:20):
Very well established brandsthat have name recognition and
have TV rights and all of thesekind of things.
But you chose to, you chose togo with a very well-known global
brand currently, um, halal guysbefore that was, you know, was
known well on the east coast andkind of expanding, but you found
a way.
To come in at the early stages.
What made you decide to go downthat route?
(15:42):
Was it just the people?
Was it the vision?
Talk to me a little bit aboutthe things.
'cause one of the things I'm soimpressed with what you and Troy
and Mark and all of the guyshave built at Pepper Lunch is
almost how cookie cutter it is,but not in a bad way.
Cookie cutter.
Cookie cutter in a way that youcan be very successful and make
a good amount of money.
No different than Subway didback in the nineties when they
were just rolling out storesand.
(16:03):
They had the supply chain allfigured out and whatnot.
So I'd love for you becauseagain, we also have listeners
that are like, okay, I want togo, I want to go learn from
Paul.
And what did he find to besuccessful?
'cause you obviously have beensuccessful in one and are in the
process of doing your nextsuccessful launch of, of your 11
stores a pepper lunch.
Paul Tran (16:20):
Yeah.
great question as well.
you're a good interview by theway.
you had a lot of really goodcontext, which is great.
So going back to the first pieceof advice I mentioned in, in a
previous dialogue with you isyou have to know yourself.
one of the things I, I'velearned about myself is that I
like to be part of something newand small, because I want to,
(16:42):
when you work for a really largecompany.
sometimes you become a cog on awheel if you're like the 10000th
subway operator.
I don't know if you feel likeyou are making an impact.
And I feel like when I firstgrew with the Halal guys, we
were their very first West Coastfranchisee
Jeremy Julian (16:59):
I remember I was so excited'cause it was just up
the road from my house.
I was like, dude, I no longerhave to go to New York to go get
this.
Paul Tran (17:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You saved what?
A thousand dollars worth ofairfare and all that.
Jeremy Julian (17:09):
Oh, well I remember when you guys opened
that store, dude, in the tuss,in, in the district.
There was a line out the doorevery day.
I was like, all right, I gottago in my shoulder periods.
'cause I didn't have enough timeto sit and wait.
Sorry.
I'll let you keep going.
But yeah, I think to your point,you like that new, it gives you
enough entrepreneurial, whereasit gives you enough to be able
to grow and make a difference,but not so much that you gotta
(17:30):
do it all on your own and yougotta worry about, about all of
it by yourself.
Sorry, I'll let you keep
Paul Tran (17:34):
no.
That you're a hundred percent onit and I can jump off of that.
it's pretty, but yeah, it's newand small, but.
But it's, it's I guess, aparadox of just being old and
tried and true as well.
I don't, I want them to be twosides of the same coin, because
Halal guys, yes, it's brand newin that it just started
franchising, but it's, and it'snew because.
(17:57):
Gosh, like the place is, thewhole marketplace is riddled
with pizza, coffee, burgers.
but Middle Eastern at the timebefore Kava hit the scene and
Luna Grill and other MiddleEastern competitors, like they
hit the scene.
We were, we were, it wasuntouched.
and so I felt like that's thenew part.
And then the old part is thatit's been around for 30 years.
It's a, it's a, and it's, it'sthe, and the type of food is,
(18:20):
is.
Even deeper than that.
and also the new part is there'sjust a huge gap.
There's a huge demand supplygap.
there's more demand for MiddleEastern food than there is
supply, at least for a fastcasual mainstream.
And so that's the reason why I,I jumped into the HAL log ice.
Same thing with pepper lunch.
I am shocked that Pepper lunchis 550 units.
(18:43):
That's the tried and true, and,but at the same time, it's still
new here in the States, likewith kdr, with K-pop, Asian
culture, ramen, Korean barbecue,there's still that demand supply
gap where, gosh, before us, theonly big innovation is what
Panda expressed.
So, so I saw the same exactpatterns as halal guys, like
(19:05):
Asian food is, is overdue for,for a huge.
Growth spurt.
And so I, yeah, I just knowmyself as wanting to get in
quite early, but at the sametime, not without its, you know,
tried and true template.
Jeremy Julian (19:19):
Yeah, and I can't wait till you guys get stores
close to me.
I know there's a couple that areon the path.
I, I stay connected enough'causeit definitely is, I miss my
Asian food after I left SouthernCalifornia.
It's something that, that Icertainly miss.
Paul Tran (19:30):
Detroit, Detroit.
Tell you where we're coming in
Jeremy Julian (19:33):
yeah, I've got, I've got the Plano store set and
I, I was telling him the lasttime I talked to him a couple
weeks ago that uh, we certainlyneed one in Fort Worth'cause I
live on the Fort Worth side.
But when I'm up that way, andquite frankly every time I'm on
that side of town, I do end upeat, eating Asian food, middle
Eastern food, or Indian food'cause all of it's there and
it's less so on this side oftown.
So, um, I miss it from my SoCaldays.
(19:55):
Paul, you, you've been at someof the early phases, and one of
the things that I continue tosee restaurants struggle with is
the innovation and theconsistency.
I remember when, or I feel likeI remember at Halal guys where
you guys used to make the whitesauce in-house and now it comes
out of a package, or at least Ifeel like it comes out of a
package.
And I, I'd, I'd love to, andagain, at least at the local
(20:16):
store that I have, and I'm noton guys, but I would talk
balance of.
Made from scratch in-house freshfood franchise, along with the
idea that it's gotta stayconsistent so that you can get
it nationwide and scale the waythat you guys are looking to,
'cause I know you guys are doinga lot of that at Pepper lunch as
well, and I'd love to kind ofget your thoughts on that
(20:38):
because it's hard to execute atscale.
It's also hard to, it's hard toexecute at scale, but it's hard
to make sure that you've got theright product if you don't have
systems in place.
And so I'd love for you toexpand upon that a little bit
because I remember when you guysused to make white sauce
in-house and that, I rememberwhen I was like, oh, what
happened here?
It's out of a package, what'sgoing on?
And it's not bad.
(20:58):
The product is still fantastic,but I've watched that
juxtaposition.
Over my time as brands scale,they try and simplify, but
sometimes, not always.
Sometimes they lose part of thebrand in that simplification.
Paul Tran (21:12):
Yeah.
gosh, this is kind of loaded andmaybe it's.
Above my pay grade.
'cause I know that Mark is alittle bit more like, you know,
since he's the COO, he's the onethat's like maniacal about the
quality, with Pepper lunch.
But at, at the Halal guys, theoriginal founders, uh, of the
brand, uh, when they decided tofranchise, they were very
(21:32):
involved throughout the whole.
Process of vetting, co-packersand manufacturers.
And so I think the originalfounders being maniacal and
really giving a crap about thequality of it just was, it had
to start from the top, after.
And they also could not settleas well.
So they probably visited likeover a hundred different, uh,
(21:53):
vendors in order to get to theright supplier.
And it's complicated'cause it'snot just the right.
F maker, but now we need tofigure out how to get it to US
foods and uh, it's a biglogistical nightmare as well.
So it's not just creating andco-packing, but it's also
distribution and, and, and beingable to go nationwide as well.
but yeah, I mean, all I couldsay is in a nutshell, the lead
(22:16):
domino is just the owners needto.
Need to be a part of thatprocess and also stay on top of
it on a regular basis.
Like that's probably the mostimportant thing they do is just
audit it all the time, uh, tokeep'em on your toes.
And same thing with, with, uh,pepper lunch as well.
I mean, the sauces.
we thank goodness our parentcompany is all about supply
(22:38):
chain and logistics.
They're like maniacal about it.
So I'm, I'm really glad thatwe're kind of, I'm kind of
spoiled by that, but, it'sbetter than the idea of making
stuff from scratch.
it's, it sounds really good.
but at the end of the day, weneed to be aware that we are a
franchise.
We're not like a mom and pop.
and so customers care more whenthey visit a franchise that it
(22:59):
tastes the same way every singletime.
it doesn't matter if you sayit's made from scratch, if it
tastes different every weekbecause customers don't trust
you anymore.
And that's, they lose faith inthe franchise system.
So I, I, I'd rather, again, thequality does be good, but it's
made from the top.
We kind of take away thevariability of operators making
stuff in-house.
(23:20):
we'd rather them just executewhat we've given them, at scale.
So I'm glad to say that.
the beauty of the simpleoperations inside of a pepper
lunch is because they've takenthe variability away from us.
We just now need to like,
Jeremy Julian (23:32):
You need to execute day in and day out.
Paul Tran (23:34):
We just need to execute.
That's it.
Jeremy Julian (23:36):
Yeah.
and I think that's a, it's funny'cause what you can make in a
mom and pop, I tell a funnystory.
I was, at RLC with, Pete Riggs,the time that I first met you,
Pete, I don't know if Pete.
but Pete was testing some saucesfor pita pit and he had brought
them in and we were testing, Idon't remember exactly what the
sauce was.
Um, I think it was the Takisauce for his pita pit.
And I was like, okay, when areyou gonna get it on the menu?
(23:56):
and it was something related tolactose and whatnot.
He's like.
Unfortunately, I can't, I gottafigure out how to mass produce
this at scale, so I can't.
And so to, to your point ofbeing maniacal, I was like,
dude, that was some of the mostamazing sauce I've ever had.
And he's like, I can't get itout because I can't execute it
over and over and over again.
So I've gotta continue to goback to the drawing board.
And again, I've watched acrossthe, across the chains, and
(24:19):
especially having moved to Texasfrom California, I watch
California brands get here.
And I'm like, it's not the same.
It's not the same as what I gotback there.
And then you go to other brandswhere.
Across the board, they'vefigured out how to execute in a
way that you're like, oh, theydo get it.
It's the exact same look.
It's the exact same feel.
It's the exact same culture.
And so I love that you have saton both sides of that and
(24:40):
consider that whether it comesout of a package or it's
homemade, in-house, justunderstanding that consistency
is key is really critical toensuring that you can be
successful across the board.
Paul Tran (24:51):
For sure, a hundred percent.
Jeremy Julian (24:53):
Yeah.
So I'm gonna pivot here just fora little bit, Paul, about the
relationship between thefranchisee and the franchisor.
you've been on both sides, andI'm sharing that because you
talked about the fallacies ofI'm an entrepreneur, I'm gonna
go do it all myself, and then,you know, and, and there's times
that there's tension.
There's healthy tension and thenthere's unhealthy tension within
(25:14):
the franchise community.
I just was on one of the early,yeah, just yesterday I recorded
a show with one of the early,Freddy's franchisees.
He was there when they were atstore seven and grew it to the
500 stores.
And then he has since sold,they, they've sold it off.
He was with the originalfounder.
He was the seventh franchisee.
Um, I think he's got a littleunder a hundred stores now.
He's starting a coffee brand.
He is got another sandwich brandin Phoenix.
(25:35):
But it was cool just talking tohim a little bit about that.
And so I'd love to.
Have you share?
Where are the healthy places topush back on your franchisor,
and where are the unhealthy waysthat you can educate our
listeners that you've watched,whether it was yourself or
you've watched when you're atFran Smart, the healthy ways to
push the brand to be better andthe unhealthy ways where you're
like, that's probably going tohurt something.
(25:57):
And ultimately either turn intoa lawsuit or a store that's not
succeeding because of it.
Paul Tran (26:02):
Yeah.
the best way to answer this isthere's a way to eliminate 90%
of the friction.
If we choose the rightfranchisee early on, it's no
different than choosing theright mate soulmate.
Like there's so many problemsthat can get overlooked and
overcome if you just choose theright person and if you take
your time to choose it.
(26:23):
and so it's more like measure.
It's the whole what?
Measure twice, cut once.
It's like measure 20 times andthen cut once.
So I will tell you that, if you.
Yeah, not all franchise fees arethe same.
Not all partners are the same.
Like, take your time.
I know if you're a little bitmore picky early on, you might
grow slower, but you'll growproperly and probably grow for a
(26:44):
long period of time.
and so that's my first piece ofadvice.
But if you've already like,moved, moved through, uh, and,
and there's alreadyrelationships in place, um, a
lot of it's just communicatingexpectations.
Right, right from the get go.
It's, it's more like, Hey, Ijust want you to know that
you're signing on to follow thesystem and you being able to
(27:05):
give the customer the same exactexp experience at Tustin is
gonna be the same exactexperience at Costa Mea and, and
the same exact experience inDallas.
Uh, like that, that matters morethan one incredible idea that
just cannot be scaled.
it, it doesn't matter if itcannot be scaled, so just having
(27:26):
compassion on the franchisorbecause yeah, you have
franchisees have like a selfishneed to be, to do things better,
do things differently, or dothings to your DDNA.
But, but the franchisor has amuch bigger responsibility to
make sure it can be done atscale and consistently so
franchisees need that kind ofcompassion.
however, when it comes to ideas.
(27:50):
Innovations.
we're, we are a good franchisoris aware that the best way to
get intel is on the front linesand your franchisees are on the
front lines.
And the beauty is, you know,Troy and I were, we're in a lot
of discovery days where I like,I love it when Troy mentions
that, Hey, I just want to letyou know that, you know, did you
(28:10):
know that McDonald's chickennuggets and Big Mac and egg
McMuffin, did you know what,where, what.
Jeremy Julian (28:16):
They came from franchisees.
I was about to tell that exactsame story.
They came directly fromfranchisees trying to meet a
meal period, and maybe they weregoing off script, but ultimately
it turned into some of theirmost successful products,
Paul Tran (28:28):
Yes, but that's in sequence.
Those were recommended byfranchisees who were following
the system at a high level andexecuted at a high level when
they followed the system and didincredible job.
You've earned the respect of thefranchisor, and you've earned
the right to make suggestions.
Like no one's going to listento.
(28:49):
A franchisor should not belistening to a franchisee who's
already breaking rules and outtacompliance right off the
Jeremy Julian (28:54):
Yeah.
Is not making any money andhasn't had a successful store
and hasn't hit half of theirtargets for, they were supposed
to open 11 stores and they'reown store one and a half and
they still aren't even projectedto ever get to store three.
Yeah.
You definitely don't wanna betalking to those people.
And to your point at thebeginning, making sure that the
marriage.
Is built on the right foundationis huge in the beginning and
I've watched too manyfranchisees and franchisors that
(29:16):
try and grow so fast.
and I know quite frankly, I'vewatched too many of them grow so
fast and fail.
And it's a shame.
It's really a shame because theproduct is fantastic, but then
they get a few boat anchors offranchisees that take them away
from the core of what they'redoing.
'cause as a franchisor, you haveto manage those guys pretty
significantly, and it takes alot of resources to ensure that.
(29:36):
You can either get them back incompliance or you fire them and,
and that's legal and a whole lotof crap there.
And that's, that's hard too,right?
Paul Tran (29:43):
Oh, a hundred percent.
It goes back to make sure youchoose the right partner first.
Jeremy Julian (29:47):
Yeah.
Paul Tran (29:48):
So with with Troy, like, it's interesting because
you know, most small brands,emerging brands, they.
They're hungry to grow.
They need the capital.
Right?
And they, they're excited forgrowth.
And so sometimes they have goodintentions, but man, sometimes
they overlook a lot of like badthere.
it's one of those things wherenow that after a bad franchisee
closes stores or you get into alawsuit, you're like, you look
(30:09):
back just like a, a datingrelationship man.
There were signs.
There were signs.
Jeremy Julian (30:14):
you just had bedroom eyes when you were
looking at it and you're like,no.
They're gonna be fine.
They're gonna be fine.
Paul Tran (30:19):
I'm spoiled because Pepper lunches parent company is
like.
One of the largest privateequity firms.
So again, I'm super spoiled.
Like we're not in a crazy likerush to like make a ton of money
off franchise fees.
We can grow slowly and surely.
Um, but I will say I hope thatthe franchisor that is not.
Backed by private equity.
I hope their concept is just areally profitable concept on its
(30:42):
own.
And they don't need to sellfranchises in order to be
profitable.
And they can wait for the rightfranchisee to come along and
they can say no more than theysay yes.
and yeah, just wanna leave it atthat.
Jeremy Julian (30:53):
And I think that's huge.
I think that's great advice, andI think I wish more restaurant
brands would do that.
Unfortunately.
I think all too many times thefounders want to get out and get
their payday.
They wanna sell as many as theycan.
Get that big private equitycheck that somebody came in and
bought the brand and now they,it's not their problem anymore.
And, uh, unfortunately I'vewatched too many founders watch
their baby die slowly on thevine because they, they let go
(31:14):
of it.
but.
to each their own.
There's not a whole lot you cando, and I think, uh, your advice
is great.
one last line of questioning,Paul.
When you go to open in a newcommunity, I'd love for you to
talk about the things thatyou've found to be tried and
true to help grow.
You talked about your, yourfirst store there in Irvine.
It's, you know, I dunno, 6, 5, 6miles from the original store I
(31:35):
think that I had ever gone to.
It's not too far away, but thebrand recognition, it's not like
everybody walking down thestreet when they tell people
pepper lunch, they're like, whatis Pepper?
What is a pepper lunch?
I'm sure you hear that.
So what did you do to besuccessful?
'cause you replaced anotherbrand that.
Was in that concept, it was inthat space that was or wasn't
successful.
Doesn't matter.
I, I, I know that mall really,really well.
(31:56):
but I'd love for you to talkabout that and as you're going
to your second store and thirdstore, what have you seen
franchisees do well, and wheredo you think they've, you've
watched people spin their wheelswhere the juice wasn't worth the
squeeze to, to share with someof our listeners out there that
might be looking to expand intoanother region, looking to
expand to another store and theyknow they need to pick the
right.
(32:17):
Real estate number one, butnumber two, what are some of the
things that you've found to bethe most successful for you and
other brands that you, uh, thatyou've worked with and talked
with?
Paul Tran (32:24):
Yeah.
good question.
And yeah, there, there's a lot,there's a big story behind that
store before we turned intopepper lunch.
Jeremy Julian (32:31):
we might have alluded to it
Paul Tran (32:33):
that's part two.
Part two.
but, yes, real estate again,lead domino.
All the, most of your problemscan go away or can be overcome
by just incredible real estate.
So that's also something youneed to measure 20 times and cut
once.
and the rent there is not cheap,but I do
Jeremy Julian (32:51):
And your landlord's not the easiest to
work with.
I'm not gonna lie
Paul Tran (32:54):
well there they're a joy.
if we are a good
Jeremy Julian (32:56):
if things are working.
Yes, absolutely.
I think we've got 20 customersin that same mall with you, and
I've watched both it besuccessful when things are going
well and then the opposite, but,sorry.
I'll let you keep
Paul Tran (33:07):
No, no, all good.
It's funny, we can have allthese side conversations, I
swear.
but as, as far as, what works asfar as maybe marketing and
community outreach, I'm a littlebit spoiled by Irvine Spectrum,
of course, but I'll kind ofoverlap that with my time with,
with Halal guys as well.
At the end of the day, uh, wesee all of our restaurants next
to us as friends and comrades inbattle.
(33:28):
Uh, we're not competing againstShake Shack and Silverlake Ramen
and all those guys.
We actually hope that they do sowell that they're, they have a
bunch of customers waiting andthey're not willing to wait, and
they come to visit us.
We also hope that our store isso busy that people are
unwilling to wait for us andthey decide to visit Silver Lake
Ramen or Shake Shack.
we've just formed a lot ofreally good friendships with our
neighbors.
(33:48):
we're really good friends withthem.
We give, uh, all of our, uh.
Our neighbors, you know,discounts on food and we do hook
them up here and there.
Uh, because we want them to alsorave about us too, just like we
wanna rave about them.
So we kind, I think thatcreating that comradery and
community amongst, operators ishelpful.
On that same point, we alsostarted our, our soft openings
(34:12):
by just giving away a ton offree food.
Same strategy as like Costco,right?
When you're at Costco, the bestway to buy something is after
you've already trialed it, likeas, as a free sample.
There's no better marketing thanthat,
Jeremy Julian (34:23):
so Panda was the killer of that in the shopping
malls back in the day when wewere youth.
walking around the mall, alittle bit of orange chicken,
you're like, oh yes, I'll have atwo item combo.
Paul Tran (34:30):
And it's crazy because, uh, you know the story,
but most people might not know.
But orange chicken was nevereven originally on the menu.
they had to force it downpeople's throats through free
samples.
Now it's like the, the thing.
So that's another lesson aboutlike.
You know, just getting startedand, and uh, kind of letting the
market kind of figure, uh,reveal, innovations for you.
(34:50):
but we just did a lot of, freefood.
Uh, we let people in thecommunity try the food.
we did train our staff to, youknow, be very educational.
'cause when, when customers getto learn new things, that kind
of like gives them a dopaminerush.
Uh, and so, so being able to goout and just teach people about
what pepper lunch is, it, Ithink everyone's kind of like
(35:12):
the bright, shiny objectsyndrome, right?
So you, you can use that to youradvantage.
Um, and then we just s try tosupport like all the local
schools and sports and just theusual stuff and, and, uh, we do
it that way.
But, yeah.
Oh, and also also social media.
One of the things is that we, wetry our best to reach out to
social media.
(35:33):
Content creators who aresmaller, uh, and are focused on
the local market.
you know, a lot of people talkhave this bad stigma of like
social media influencers wherethey have like a million
followers and they charge like$5,000 for a post.
those aren't as as effectivebecause they're more audiences
are all over the worldsometimes, and when you post it
(35:54):
doesn't really, it's kind oflike.
It's kind of like a, a shotgunwhere you're not really sure
what who's gonna get hit, right?
Like, but it's, we like to goafter like small content
creators who maybe have maybe acouple hundred followers.
and they're local to the market.
They're a lot more amenable.
They are looking for content.
Their customers, even thoughthey don't have a million
(36:16):
followers, like a goodpercentage, are actually our
local.
Our local customers that weactually serve.
And that's been really, reallyfruitful for us as well.
So that's that.
There's a bunch of other thingswe do do, but I, I'd say that
those are the strategies wealways make sure to incorporate.
Um,
Jeremy Julian (36:32):
Yeah.
And the one other thing thatI've watched you guys do really
is be responsive to your guests.
You guys are really good abouttaking the feedback and
responding on social orotherwise to, whether that's
modify the changes or getfeedback from them.
And even if they didn't have thebest experience.
'cause we all know not everyexperience when we go out to
dine is gonna be the best.
At the same time.
When they know that you hearthem and you see them and you're
(36:53):
there with them, they're willingto oftentimes give you a second
or even a third chance if youscrew up.
Paul Tran (36:57):
For sure.
And a lot of times they're noteven, yeah, like you said,
they're not even looking for arefund or anything.
They just want to feel likethey're heard and their stuff
matters.
so just acknowledging that isalready An opportunity to create
raving fans,
Jeremy Julian (37:09):
Love it.
so since you're the pepper lunchguy, for those that haven't
heard Troy's episode, why don'tyou give everybody a 32nd primer
or a one minute primer?
What is Pepper lunch?
I've been, I'm a huge fan.
Can't wait till there's oneclose.
I will be a frequent customer.
You might get selfies from meout in front of the store, but,
what is a pepper lunch and whatis the concept that there's 500
plus of them overseas that,that, you guys are gonna blow up
(37:30):
here in the states here in thenext couple years?
Paul Tran (37:31):
Make sure one of the selfies has me in it too.
but no pepper lunch is, Gosh,the way I would describe it is
it's a DIY teki concept.
I usually tell people if you'rea fan of like Benihana, it's
like it's being able to havefood being made by a chef, uh,
with theatrics and being able toshow, see your food being made
fresh.
Uh, but because it's DIY, you'reactually the chef.
(37:55):
And so when you place an orderwith us, We are actually just
assembling food in a, in a hotplate that goes up to, that gets
heated up to 500 degrees.
Uh, and our staff simply putsthe proteins, the rice, and the
toppings that you ask for, butwe send it out to you so that
you can be part of the process,uh, be part of the cooking,
become your own chef, cook itexactly how you like it.
(38:17):
And I love the concept because Ithink nowadays people aren't
just looking to buy things.
Uh, they're looking for anexperience.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and.
And to make something their own.
And so, being able to make theirfood their own, makes'em feel a
little bit more bought in.
I feel like it actually fostersloyalty.
and it also helps that they lovetaking photos and videos and,
(38:39):
uh, do the marketing for us onsocial media
Jeremy Julian (38:42):
and it's also lots of customization.
If you want to, you cancustomize your sausage, you can
customize your proteins, you cancustomize your starches quite a
bit, and so you've got almostunlimited options.
Is that fair?
Paul Tran (38:53):
super fair.
And what's what I love about theconcept, from consumer
standpoint, yes, you get tocustomize, you do part of the
process.
it's just such a fun thing todo, and it's like an affordable,
luxury, affordableentertainment.
but on the operator side, it'sbrilliant because you're,
because the customer is doingthe cooking, Our staff in the
back doesn't have to do thecooking.
So no li
Jeremy Julian (39:13):
it's all assembly.
Paul Tran (39:14):
minimal liabilities, and, very low staff needed.
and so it's actually easier tooperate and a lot more
profitable for an operator.
So it's the best of both worlds.
I, again, I don't think I couldhave appreciated unless I
operated like a busy, complexoperation like Halal guys.
'cause Halal guys, when it wasbusy, we had stores that did.
Anywhere from two to 4 millionand we needed, during the busy
(39:36):
times, we needed like 13, 14people.
Jeremy Julian (39:39):
Well, and you guys are shaving the meat all
day long and you gotta get it onthere and it's gotta get cooked
it right away.
I mean, yeah, no, it's a lot,there's a lot of work that goes
into that.
Not that there's not a lot ofwork in a, in a pepper lunch.
One real, real quick thing, just'cause again, I'm a huge fan of
the brand.
it is, participated in a fastcasual type environment.
It is not like Benny Hana'swhere you gotta sit in front of
a chef, you're going to thecounter and ordering and then
they're delivering your food toyou or picking it up at the, at
(40:01):
the window type of thing.
So just for those that haven'texperienced it,'cause you guys
are gonna start seeing pepperlunches all over the place.
Paul Tran (40:06):
Yes, a hundred percent.
And thank you for clarifyingthat.
Yeah, it's hard because it's sounique that you, there's not
much that I can really explain.
you can say it's like Koreanbarbecue, but you get your own
plate.
Jeremy Julian (40:16):
Yeah, it's like beep and bop maybe.
but that's you can't, that's nota nationwide thing at the end of
the day.
I know it'cause I lived inSouthern California and I used
to go to the H Mart right therein that same
Paul Tran (40:25):
Oh
Jeremy Julian (40:25):
the, as the original one.
There used to be a beep and bopplace, Korean, where all of it's
in the bowl and you mix it alltogether.
So that's how I equate it, ifsomebody's familiar with it.
Paul Tran (40:32):
Yeah.
Even though it's hard toexplain.
Same thing with Hal guys, whereI really believe that, middle
Eastern and Mediterranean foodis over, was overdue for, for
disruption and for someone totake a leadership position.
Uh, Hal guys is definitely upthere, but of course Kava is
like pretty much the mostpopular well-known one I'd say.
I'd say Pepper Lunch is verysimilar right now.
There's just Panda Express.
(40:54):
There's like maybe.
I, yeah, there's no one else.
And so I, I really believe thatthis has the mainstream appeal
because Yeah.
Right.
We're starting to see, like alot of non-Asians come in the, a
lot of folks that are adoptingit very similarly to where Halal
guys, you know, it's not justattracting the Middle Eastern
medi chain customer, but peoplefrom all walks of life and just
(41:16):
mainstream.
So I, I like to see it's, it'svery similar.
Jeremy Julian (41:20):
Love that.
last question.
What is your go-to and whatwould you recommend a first
timer come in and get?
You're a restaurant guy, so I'msure you modify the crap out of
it, or you have a bunch of wackystuff.
Try.
I asked Troy that question andhe is I do this with this.
And I'm like, dude, that's noton the menu anyway.
He is like, yeah, I know.
You're right.
I, I make it up myself.
But, I guess what's the go-tofor somebody their very first
time at PEPPER Lunch?
What would you recommend theyget?
(41:41):
And then for you, what is yourkind of go-to?
what are you, consistently goingand getting at this
Paul Tran (41:45):
Yeah.
Um, so as a gateway, 50% of oursale, 50% of most of our stores,
are the introduction.
Three item is the jumble beef,pepper, rice, uh, that's
certified Angus beef, toppedwith rice and corn and, and all
sorts of really, and all sortsof signature sauce.
Uh, and also our, proprietarypepper margin.
(42:06):
Uh, it's incredible.
I mean, if you eat it on yourown, I think you can't go wrong.
and my go-to my go-to is, I likethe, kimchi chicken pepper rice.
Shocked by how good it is.
and it's one of those thingswhere, you go there and your
default is something, but everytime I try, I'm like, oh my
(42:26):
gosh, I just can't believe I, Idon't eat order this enough.
kimchi, chicken, pepper, rice.
Jeremy Julian (42:30):
Yeah.
No, I, I go every time I'm thereI'm like, okay, I gotta try
something else.
so Paul, thank you so much forsharing your wisdom, man.
I know we've been, we've beentalking about getting together
for quite some time and I lovethat we got a chance to, to
share what you've learned.
How do people get in touch withyou?
How do people get in touch aboutpepper lunch?
I guess tell'em how to stayconnected so that they can,
continue to be a fan of yourslike I have been for the last
couple years watching youonline.
Paul Tran (42:51):
Oh, thank you Jeremy.
and again, thank you for havingme here.
And, the best way to reach outis.
I think the best way is toconnect with me on LinkedIn.
I feel like that's where I getto share my thoughts and
insights, without a lot offilter.
And I get to show you what I'mworking on and who I really am.
so yes, find me on LinkedIn.
It's linkedin.com/in/ Paul Tran.
(43:13):
So there's two T's in there.
I think that's the best wayforward.
so yeah, looking forward to talkwith anyone and be of help, in
any way possible.
Jeremy Julian (43:21):
Awesome.
Paul, thank you so much and likeI said to our listeners guys,
you guys have got lots ofchoices, so thanks for hanging
out.
If you haven't alreadysubscribed, please do And, when
you're in a town where there's apepper lunch, please check it
out and let us know how you likeit and, make it a great day.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Thanks for listening to The Restaurant Technology
Guys podcast.
Visit restaurant technologyguys.com for tips, industry
insights, and more to help yourun your restaurant better.
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