December 1, 2025 • 21 mins
00:00 - 21:26 - Stephen Holder of ESPN joins the show! Stephen and JMV discuss the loss to the Texans, the outlook for the rest of the season, the litany of injuries the Colts are dealing with and more!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Stephen Holder of ESPN on ESPN dot com. He's on
(00:02):
the Andy More Automotive Group potline Culture eight and four
lose at Home to Houston yesterday. I saw what you
had written a little bit earlier today. Hey, I'm not
trying to hit the panic button at all, or you know,
the red flag being waved. But now is the time
to pull this thing out of a nosedive because you
position positioned yourself so well and you've basically given all
(00:23):
that up right now. And you look around this team, Stephen,
and not a lot of things on or off the
field with health concerns are going right. And you've got
to stop this and stop this coming up on Sunday
and Jacksonville. Place you haven't once is twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Well, you know you called it a nosedive, and to
continue the metaphor, I would say, you know they were
gliding along early in the season and you know, a
tricked out I don't know what is it? A seven
eight seven, you know, big jumbo jet, you know with
all the bells and whistle, and I feel like right
(01:02):
now they're on you know, they're on this forty year
old seven thirty seven. I wrote on last week, which
was absolute trash without any TV, any any entertainment system
or anything. They're just trying to get there with one
engine running. You know, that's the difference. It is that dramatic.
(01:23):
And I don't know it's a stupid metaphor maybe, but
I don't. I don't know that it is though. I mean,
that's that's how dramatic the difference is from where they
were to where they are now in the span of
one month. The conversations we were having a month ago,
think about them. The conversations were are they going to
be the number one seed? The conversations were is this
(01:47):
the best Colts offense ever? And think about what we're
having to talk about now, which is are they going
to make the postseason? Are they going to win another game?
I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Is Daniel Jones the future.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Are they screwed for the future because of Sauce Gardener, Yes, sure,
sure so.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Look, I mean we we we certainly are. The blood
is in the water. If you want to make, you know,
arguments that this is a disaster, you can make lots
of those arguments. Right now. They have to turn the tide,
and that's really what this bails down to, right if
they go on a if they go on a wind streak.
Here we're having totally different conversations. But I but those
(02:35):
those things that are compromising them are real, and I'm
not blaming anybody, but they are real. Right, the Forest
Buckner is not walking through that door on Sunday. Okay,
Sauce Gardener is not walking through that door on Sunday.
Daniel Jones at one hundred is not walking through that
door on Sunday. They're gonna have to make do and
it's gonna be hard. I'm just telling you now, so
(02:58):
buckle up so I can tell you.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I would suggest this they should be more capable to
make do, which at times this team in certain circumstances
reminds me of front runners, because you were kind of
describing where you thought they were right now. I described
it earlier as like going in terms of rhythm, they're
in rhythm like New Addition, and now they're in rhythm
(03:19):
like me, which is incredibly problematic, especially on the offensive side.
And I cite so many of their issues or the
root of their issues on both sides up front of
the line, both offensive line and defensive line, and I
know you mentioned to Forrest Buckler being out, but I'm sorry.
(03:40):
There's enough and so many number ones and high dollar
guys where I would expect more. And I think that's
where the root of the issues really with this team
and this spiral we have seen recently start.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, I think you can look at the Houston Texans
and take some or finding a example there. Their offense
has not really moved the needle much at all this season.
I mean, they scored twenty points yesterday, right, I mean,
I don't think anybody anywhere is looking at that offense
and saying, WHOA, I'm scared of those guys. What they've
done is they have one with defense, and it just
(04:17):
goes to show you. I mean, there are different ways
to get it done. There's no question about that. Do
the Colts have the personnel the Texans have. No, they
do not, but you are not wrong. They do have
a lot of money invested in that defense, and it's
not all going to DeForest Buckner. That defensive line is
one of the three or four most highly paid defensive
lines in the NFL, and so that suggests more production.
(04:42):
They're not getting that production and they have at times
gotten it. I think the problem is that it has
been hit and it's been missed, and that's just made
a bad situation tougher, to be completely honest, So I
don't have the answers, but I think, you know, they've
invested so much resources there that yes, you, you are,
(05:02):
you are right to expect those guys to come through.
Quid he pay a lot to right, I mean, these
guys got to come through, they just do.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I haven't made a lot about the officiating yesterday, which
was crap water to say the least. Should I have
made more about that today?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Uh? Okay? So you know I am not a big
fan of like doing somersaults trying to you know, make
that the first order of business after a loss. But yeah,
I'm with you awful, no question about it. But I
also think I also think that we've probably gone a
(05:41):
little too far. Not you, but some fans.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
So here's what I'm talking about, right, So, like the
extra point, for example, there's this there's this sentiment out
there like, well, they botched it, And I think I
know why because I ended up hearing what was said
on the broadcast later on, and I'm in the press box,
like you, right, So we're not listening to the broadcast
when I heard it later, I understand why there was
(06:04):
this uproar because it was described as this foregone conclusion
that it was a missed extra point. I disagree with that.
I don't know that we can say it was some
kind of foregone conclusion. I would say, we don't know.
That's what i'd say. I think the angle that people
were looking at was not dead on, and you can't
really tell from that angle. So that's one example. The
(06:25):
pass interference garbage, garbage call, no question about it. But
I would also argue the Colts have gotten their share
to it evens out man, over the course of the season.
The officials are not out to get your team. Okay,
that is absolute BS Fans talk about it, and that's
in such a way it's just not true. Right. I
(06:46):
can say, on the one hand, they got screwed, Yes,
I can say that. But I can also say, over
the course of seventeen games, everybody's going to get their share,
and theirs came at a bad time and a bad situation.
So I can tell you, man, they missed the call.
Human error. It is what it is, what I'd say
is they had numerous opportunities to win that game. You
(07:09):
can't go through three for ten on third down, for example,
and then make it about the officials. You were three
of ten on third down? Okay, Josh downs two drops right.
You can't find a way to get your number one
weapon going Johnson Taylor. I can make a list of
ten damn things that they ain't doing, So we can
talk about two or three calls and it hurts. I
(07:32):
get it. But they're not a great team right now. Man.
That's the bottom line. And I understand there are mitigating circumstances,
but that remains true.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Why does Shane Steichen continue to utilize Daniel Jones as
if he's the healthy Daniel Jones we saw in September?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Because he doesn't have a choice. This is the problem
that he's facing. And when I say he doesn't have
a choice, what I mean is the playbook. A lot
of what's in the playbook is is built upon the
quarterback having to move right, and so if you remove
all of that, you don't have a whole lot to
(08:09):
work with. So I think he's trying to find this line.
And I asked him about this earlier Shane, and you know,
he's trying to avoid acknowledging that it's a problem. And
I understand that. I get why he's doing that, but
it is a problem. And I think he's trying to
walk this line of trying to call a normal game
(08:31):
but also protecting his quarterback, and that is like an
impossible thing to do. It's really hard. So I do
sympathize with him and with Daniel Jones, because it's an
impossible situation. But I just look, I think I can
look at how Daniel played yesterday and I can say,
under the circumstances, that was a great performance in context, right,
(08:53):
meaning the guy with a for all we know, for
what we understand, a fraction cigula and playing against the
number one defense in the NFL. Right, I mean, like,
what were your expectations? They couldn't have been more than that. However,
we also can admit that he is compromised. It's true,
but look, this is what they got. Riley Leonard is
(09:15):
not going to play period, full stop. That is not
going to happen. I'm telling you now, one thousand percent.
Unless this injury became much worse, that is not even
a topic of discussion. I would also tell you that
Anthony Richardson is not close. He has not even there
has not been a discussion about getting him back in
practice just yet. A very delicate injury, A broken face,
(09:38):
that's what he had. So this is what they got,
and they got a roll with Daniel Jones.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It's interesting. Everybody used to tell me I had a
broken face too.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Were they wrong?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I still had to go out and do stuff with it.
But now it's Stephen Holder, VESP and ESPN dot comies
on the Anymore Automotive Group plotline. So I saw what
Charvarius Ward said about, you know, the clouds have to
clear and he's got to be focused and locked in.
Is he talking about still being cloudy from the Alec
the the Ogle Tree hit uh that sent him on
(10:13):
the IR or is he just cloudy in general because
the one thing he looks like in this cloud cover
is incredibly slow compared to what we're used to.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I don't. I don't think it's about the concussion.
I think he I think he's just got a lot
going on and I think he is getting at him
being unfocused yesterday. Now, some of that, I might I
might say, was was due to his role changing right
then and there on the first series of the game.
(10:44):
You know they have been in this situation where they're going,
I believe it's a saft Gardener on the right side
of the defense and Savarius on the on the weft side,
and they can just sort of be static and keep
those guys there and not have to worry about, Hey,
who's got the number one receiver and chasing him all
over the field, which is exhausting. Right. Well, they immediately
(11:07):
as sauce Gardner went down, had to flip the switch
and say, all right, now, Ward, you've got Nico Collins
and he's yours all day. Well he was, he was
putting them through the ringer, chasing that guy all over
the field. I mean, it's a tough assignment, no question
about it, right, and I just think it took a
(11:27):
toll and and maybe he lost focus in the course
of that. I mean, I'm I'm paraphrasing, or I guess
I'm extrapolating. I should say based on what Ward was saying,
but that's kind of how I interpret it. So he's
got to pull it together. And he did say he
said I didn't play well enough. Now I think he's
a good player. I think he can be what they
(11:50):
expect him to be. But this has also not been
the year that he drew it up to be. You know,
that concussion for example, and then he e've been banged
up another moments as well. I just think it's been
a lot. It's been a tough year overall for him,
and you know, I just don't know that he's dealt
with it as best as he hoped.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
All right, Sauce Gardner Stephen hold up by the ways.
On the Andy Moore Automotive Group plot line, sauce Gardner
described a week to week now. Listen, we've both been
down this path with the Colts before and week to
week stuff. So I'm not holding my breath on any
of it, are you? Will you hold your breath?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
No, not hold my breath, I will say, I don't.
I'm not ruling it out. Here's why. So I don't
know that this is exactly true, but this is a
similar situation to what we saw with Kenny Moore earlier
this season, where we thought he had the achilles tear.
He did not. It turns out it was I think
(12:50):
that was more of a calf slash achilles strain. This one.
They're saying it's much more of the calf and not
the achilles. But my point is it's in that that region,
you know, so you've got to be careful. And if
I'm not mistaken, Kenny Moore missed three weeks, so I
(13:11):
don't know if that's sort of a guiding light, you know,
to use in this situation. Maybe at least at some
point of reference, so we'll see. I mean, stikeen with
adamant that he will be back before the end of
the season. Of course, that is a projection, right so
ultimately no one can hold him to that because there's
(13:33):
no way to absolutely positively know that right now.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Was there a reason to be critical of Shane Styking
and his coaching.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Well, I think it's there to ask questions. That's fine.
I know, I've got to see how this ends. Well,
that's fine. I don't think. I don't think you're out
of line. I mean, ultimately, even though look we've outlined
all the things that are not within their control, you
know those those things are are there. But I mean, ultimately,
(14:08):
he had a lot of answers early in the season. Offensively,
you know, he had a lot of answers their execution
was better all those things, and I just think it's
it's very clear to see that they're not getting the
same kind of performance in the same kind of outcomes.
Right now, you have to start somewhere, and I think
you go to the coach. He's at least a part
(14:31):
of the question or the what do you.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Think the biggest issue might be if you were putting together?
Because I talked about obviously, you know, out foxing out
smarting yourself as we've seen, and you know, it does
work both ways. I mean, when you come up with
a play and it's a surprise call, it's it's great,
but you know, the whole snap, the direct slap snap,
the Tyler Warren like, I'm thinking, you know, there may
(14:56):
be a time in place for that, but with the
way this team is working now, it didn't seem like
it's it. And you know, again, it brings up questions
as to you know, why you're constantly trying to outsmart yourself.
It's almost like at times the bad outweighs the good,
if you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So, so here's a theory that I have. I believe
very strongly that it's very different when you are coaching
with the upper hand versus when you are trying to
respond to what's happening and it's slipping away. So let
me explain what I mean by that. Early in the season,
they were scoring just like gangbusters in the first quarter,
(15:37):
their first their opening drives were crushing it right. Lately
they have had a lot of hiccups on those opening drives,
and that is interesting because that is where saying Stychen
often is at his best on those scripted early drives.
He is very good at that. That is one of
his strengths. And he was coming up with some haymakers
(15:59):
that right out of the game were really, you know,
throwing knockout punches. And that has been less true in
recent games, whether it's because of penalties, drops, or just
some sort of lack of execution. They've had a lot
of miscues early in games. So he has found himself
now either playing sort of nip and tuck or trailing
(16:22):
and that kind of thing. And then it puts you
as a play caller in a much different situation. Now
the defense has a little upper hand on you. When
when the defense was on the defensive. I know that
sounds stupid, but like when the defensive coordinators were on
the defensive and trying to find answers to kind of,
(16:43):
you know, to kind of stem the flow. Then you know,
Saint Stecken was in a really strong position and he
could he could throw more things at you. But I
just think right now that's not the case. The other
thing is, frankly, they haven't executed as well. They just haven't.
The penalty have been a problem, just and stupid stuff
(17:03):
a lot of times. Right It's like somebody's not on
the line of scrimmage. It's it's false starts, it's drops.
It's just they have not been crisp at all. And
I think that also has to do with coaching too.
You've got to get the best out of your guys,
and he's got to figure out a way to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Are they going to be trying out place kickers? I
always thought you get this late unless somebody's injured. It's
almost better off if you try to work with the
dynamic you have, compared to going out there and holding
a tryout and hoping you're going to find something else,
because clearly, if you had something else, that option would
already be there, or that person would be on somebody
else's team. But will they go through that process this week.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I think it's trending in that way, yes, And I'm
waiting to see today's transactions. I haven't seen them just yet,
but when they do come out, I'm interested to see
if we find out there was some there was some
outs today. They have talked about it for sure, that
I can tell you, and so I will just give
(18:07):
you my personal opinion on it. I agree with you
for the most part. I don't think you should be
overly reactive right to poor performance. However, I think you've
got to have a baseline, and three missed extra points
in a month and a half is too many for me.
It's just too many. I think that is where I
(18:30):
probably draw the line, because frankly, we can talk about,
you know, the miss calls, We can talk about all
that stuff. They if he doesn't miss the extra point,
it's a three point game and not a four point game.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
At the end.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I'm not saying they figure out a way to finish
the drive, but you certainly have a different mindset and
it feels more doable, right. You manage your timeouts differently,
everything's different, right, So I just think that's a big deal.
To me, that's just a really big deal. That's that
has to be like a free throw, you know, at
(19:04):
this level, it just does. I get that it's longer
than it used to be. I understand that. But with
with the way kickers are kicking in today's game, and
with the you know, with the the rules, the way
they've changed, with the ball preparation and all that, we're
seeing record field goal length, right, so a thirty three
yard field goal has to be damn near automatic.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Man. They they need deforce Buckner and his presence in
a big hurry too. That also disappoints me. We hear
like you you have to look up dudes making plays
along that defensive line on the roster, and the dudes
that you know by heart really aren't doing much of anything.
That's problematic.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, And I think on and on the other side,
the other the team, the opponent's defenses are now gaining
an upper hand. So this this compounds the problem. They're
gaining an upper hand because they see that they're not
reacting well to pressure. So for example, and I'm not
changing the subject, I'm just saying, like, this is the
(20:05):
this is the flip side of that, right, The opponent's
defense yesterday, Daniel Jones, I think under pressure, he was
two of eleven, so damn near all of his incompletions
came when they when there was pressure because teams know
he's hurt, so they're sending more pressure. The Texans blitz
more than they typically did on yesterday, and they know
(20:25):
he can't get out of it. He left the pocket
one time yesterday, one time, okay, and he is he
is absolutely compromised. So it's just that's the thing that's
the difference or the impact that pressure can have. And
the Colts, meanwhile, are not applying that kind of pressure
on the other side.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
That is Stevenholder of ESPN and ESPN dot Com, like
you out there and most around here, searching for answers,
and we'll find out I'm sure some things later on
this week, and it's going to tell us. This week
is going to tell us a lot about this group.
That's what I say a little bit earlier. It really is.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I think we'll know where this is going based on
what we see from them. I only even mean this
win or lose, but like, do they do they respond?
You know, do we see a better effort overall? Do
we see a team that looks competent, looks like it
can win. In January, I think we'll get some answers
to those questions in this game.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Pleasures always, thanks for joining us, Steven all right, you
got
Stephen Holder of ESPN on ESPN dot com. He's on
(00:02):
the Andy More Automotive Group potline Culture eight and four
lose at Home to Houston yesterday. I saw what you
had written a little bit earlier today. Hey, I'm not
trying to hit the panic button at all, or you know,
the red flag being waved. But now is the time
to pull this thing out of a nosedive because you
position positioned yourself so well and you've basically given all
(00:23):
that up right now. And you look around this team, Stephen,
and not a lot of things on or off the
field with health concerns are going right. And you've got
to stop this and stop this coming up on Sunday
and Jacksonville. Place you haven't once is twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Well, you know you called it a nosedive, and to
continue the metaphor, I would say, you know they were
gliding along early in the season and you know, a
tricked out I don't know what is it? A seven
eight seven, you know, big jumbo jet, you know with
all the bells and whistle, and I feel like right
(01:02):
now they're on you know, they're on this forty year
old seven thirty seven. I wrote on last week, which
was absolute trash without any TV, any any entertainment system
or anything. They're just trying to get there with one
engine running. You know, that's the difference. It is that dramatic.
(01:23):
And I don't know it's a stupid metaphor maybe, but
I don't. I don't know that it is though. I mean,
that's that's how dramatic the difference is from where they
were to where they are now in the span of
one month. The conversations we were having a month ago,
think about them. The conversations were are they going to
be the number one seed? The conversations were is this
(01:47):
the best Colts offense ever? And think about what we're
having to talk about now, which is are they going
to make the postseason? Are they going to win another game?
I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Is Daniel Jones the future.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Are they screwed for the future because of Sauce Gardener, Yes, sure,
sure so.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Look, I mean we we we certainly are. The blood
is in the water. If you want to make, you know,
arguments that this is a disaster, you can make lots
of those arguments. Right now. They have to turn the tide,
and that's really what this bails down to, right if
they go on a if they go on a wind streak.
Here we're having totally different conversations. But I but those
(02:35):
those things that are compromising them are real, and I'm
not blaming anybody, but they are real. Right, the Forest
Buckner is not walking through that door on Sunday. Okay,
Sauce Gardener is not walking through that door on Sunday.
Daniel Jones at one hundred is not walking through that
door on Sunday. They're gonna have to make do and
it's gonna be hard. I'm just telling you now, so
(02:58):
buckle up so I can tell you.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I would suggest this they should be more capable to
make do, which at times this team in certain circumstances
reminds me of front runners, because you were kind of
describing where you thought they were right now. I described
it earlier as like going in terms of rhythm, they're
in rhythm like New Addition, and now they're in rhythm
(03:19):
like me, which is incredibly problematic, especially on the offensive side.
And I cite so many of their issues or the
root of their issues on both sides up front of
the line, both offensive line and defensive line, and I
know you mentioned to Forrest Buckler being out, but I'm sorry.
(03:40):
There's enough and so many number ones and high dollar
guys where I would expect more. And I think that's
where the root of the issues really with this team
and this spiral we have seen recently start.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, I think you can look at the Houston Texans
and take some or finding a example there. Their offense
has not really moved the needle much at all this season.
I mean, they scored twenty points yesterday, right, I mean,
I don't think anybody anywhere is looking at that offense
and saying, WHOA, I'm scared of those guys. What they've
done is they have one with defense, and it just
(04:17):
goes to show you. I mean, there are different ways
to get it done. There's no question about that. Do
the Colts have the personnel the Texans have. No, they
do not, but you are not wrong. They do have
a lot of money invested in that defense, and it's
not all going to DeForest Buckner. That defensive line is
one of the three or four most highly paid defensive
lines in the NFL, and so that suggests more production.
(04:42):
They're not getting that production and they have at times
gotten it. I think the problem is that it has
been hit and it's been missed, and that's just made
a bad situation tougher, to be completely honest, So I
don't have the answers, but I think, you know, they've
invested so much resources there that yes, you, you are,
(05:02):
you are right to expect those guys to come through.
Quid he pay a lot to right, I mean, these
guys got to come through, they just do.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I haven't made a lot about the officiating yesterday, which
was crap water to say the least. Should I have
made more about that today?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Uh? Okay? So you know I am not a big
fan of like doing somersaults trying to you know, make
that the first order of business after a loss. But yeah,
I'm with you awful, no question about it. But I
also think I also think that we've probably gone a
(05:41):
little too far. Not you, but some fans.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
So here's what I'm talking about, right, So, like the
extra point, for example, there's this there's this sentiment out
there like, well, they botched it, And I think I
know why because I ended up hearing what was said
on the broadcast later on, and I'm in the press box,
like you, right, So we're not listening to the broadcast
when I heard it later, I understand why there was
(06:04):
this uproar because it was described as this foregone conclusion
that it was a missed extra point. I disagree with that.
I don't know that we can say it was some
kind of foregone conclusion. I would say, we don't know.
That's what i'd say. I think the angle that people
were looking at was not dead on, and you can't
really tell from that angle. So that's one example. The
(06:25):
pass interference garbage, garbage call, no question about it. But
I would also argue the Colts have gotten their share
to it evens out man, over the course of the season.
The officials are not out to get your team. Okay,
that is absolute BS Fans talk about it, and that's
in such a way it's just not true. Right. I
(06:46):
can say, on the one hand, they got screwed, Yes,
I can say that. But I can also say, over
the course of seventeen games, everybody's going to get their share,
and theirs came at a bad time and a bad situation.
So I can tell you, man, they missed the call.
Human error. It is what it is, what I'd say
is they had numerous opportunities to win that game. You
(07:09):
can't go through three for ten on third down, for example,
and then make it about the officials. You were three
of ten on third down? Okay, Josh downs two drops right.
You can't find a way to get your number one
weapon going Johnson Taylor. I can make a list of
ten damn things that they ain't doing, So we can
talk about two or three calls and it hurts. I
(07:32):
get it. But they're not a great team right now. Man.
That's the bottom line. And I understand there are mitigating circumstances,
but that remains true.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Why does Shane Steichen continue to utilize Daniel Jones as
if he's the healthy Daniel Jones we saw in September?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Because he doesn't have a choice. This is the problem
that he's facing. And when I say he doesn't have
a choice, what I mean is the playbook. A lot
of what's in the playbook is is built upon the
quarterback having to move right, and so if you remove
all of that, you don't have a whole lot to
(08:09):
work with. So I think he's trying to find this line.
And I asked him about this earlier Shane, and you know,
he's trying to avoid acknowledging that it's a problem. And
I understand that. I get why he's doing that, but
it is a problem. And I think he's trying to
walk this line of trying to call a normal game
(08:31):
but also protecting his quarterback, and that is like an
impossible thing to do. It's really hard. So I do
sympathize with him and with Daniel Jones, because it's an
impossible situation. But I just look, I think I can
look at how Daniel played yesterday and I can say,
under the circumstances, that was a great performance in context, right,
(08:53):
meaning the guy with a for all we know, for
what we understand, a fraction cigula and playing against the
number one defense in the NFL. Right, I mean, like,
what were your expectations? They couldn't have been more than that. However,
we also can admit that he is compromised. It's true,
but look, this is what they got. Riley Leonard is
(09:15):
not going to play period, full stop. That is not
going to happen. I'm telling you now, one thousand percent.
Unless this injury became much worse, that is not even
a topic of discussion. I would also tell you that
Anthony Richardson is not close. He has not even there
has not been a discussion about getting him back in
practice just yet. A very delicate injury, A broken face,
(09:38):
that's what he had. So this is what they got,
and they got a roll with Daniel Jones.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It's interesting. Everybody used to tell me I had a
broken face too.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Were they wrong?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I still had to go out and do stuff with it.
But now it's Stephen Holder, VESP and ESPN dot comies
on the Anymore Automotive Group plotline. So I saw what
Charvarius Ward said about, you know, the clouds have to
clear and he's got to be focused and locked in.
Is he talking about still being cloudy from the Alec
the the Ogle Tree hit uh that sent him on
(10:13):
the IR or is he just cloudy in general because
the one thing he looks like in this cloud cover
is incredibly slow compared to what we're used to.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I don't. I don't think it's about the concussion.
I think he I think he's just got a lot
going on and I think he is getting at him
being unfocused yesterday. Now, some of that, I might I
might say, was was due to his role changing right
then and there on the first series of the game.
(10:44):
You know they have been in this situation where they're going,
I believe it's a saft Gardener on the right side
of the defense and Savarius on the on the weft side,
and they can just sort of be static and keep
those guys there and not have to worry about, Hey,
who's got the number one receiver and chasing him all
over the field, which is exhausting. Right. Well, they immediately
(11:07):
as sauce Gardner went down, had to flip the switch
and say, all right, now, Ward, you've got Nico Collins
and he's yours all day. Well he was, he was
putting them through the ringer, chasing that guy all over
the field. I mean, it's a tough assignment, no question
about it, right, and I just think it took a
(11:27):
toll and and maybe he lost focus in the course
of that. I mean, I'm I'm paraphrasing, or I guess
I'm extrapolating. I should say based on what Ward was saying,
but that's kind of how I interpret it. So he's
got to pull it together. And he did say he
said I didn't play well enough. Now I think he's
a good player. I think he can be what they
(11:50):
expect him to be. But this has also not been
the year that he drew it up to be. You know,
that concussion for example, and then he e've been banged
up another moments as well. I just think it's been
a lot. It's been a tough year overall for him,
and you know, I just don't know that he's dealt
with it as best as he hoped.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
All right, Sauce Gardner Stephen hold up by the ways.
On the Andy Moore Automotive Group plot line, sauce Gardner
described a week to week now. Listen, we've both been
down this path with the Colts before and week to
week stuff. So I'm not holding my breath on any
of it, are you? Will you hold your breath?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
No, not hold my breath, I will say, I don't.
I'm not ruling it out. Here's why. So I don't
know that this is exactly true, but this is a
similar situation to what we saw with Kenny Moore earlier
this season, where we thought he had the achilles tear.
He did not. It turns out it was I think
(12:50):
that was more of a calf slash achilles strain. This one.
They're saying it's much more of the calf and not
the achilles. But my point is it's in that that region,
you know, so you've got to be careful. And if
I'm not mistaken, Kenny Moore missed three weeks, so I
(13:11):
don't know if that's sort of a guiding light, you know,
to use in this situation. Maybe at least at some
point of reference, so we'll see. I mean, stikeen with
adamant that he will be back before the end of
the season. Of course, that is a projection, right so
ultimately no one can hold him to that because there's
(13:33):
no way to absolutely positively know that right now.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Was there a reason to be critical of Shane Styking
and his coaching.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Well, I think it's there to ask questions. That's fine.
I know, I've got to see how this ends. Well,
that's fine. I don't think. I don't think you're out
of line. I mean, ultimately, even though look we've outlined
all the things that are not within their control, you
know those those things are are there. But I mean, ultimately,
(14:08):
he had a lot of answers early in the season. Offensively,
you know, he had a lot of answers their execution
was better all those things, and I just think it's
it's very clear to see that they're not getting the
same kind of performance in the same kind of outcomes.
Right now, you have to start somewhere, and I think
you go to the coach. He's at least a part
(14:31):
of the question or the what do you.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Think the biggest issue might be if you were putting together?
Because I talked about obviously, you know, out foxing out
smarting yourself as we've seen, and you know, it does
work both ways. I mean, when you come up with
a play and it's a surprise call, it's it's great,
but you know, the whole snap, the direct slap snap,
the Tyler Warren like, I'm thinking, you know, there may
(14:56):
be a time in place for that, but with the
way this team is working now, it didn't seem like
it's it. And you know, again, it brings up questions
as to you know, why you're constantly trying to outsmart yourself.
It's almost like at times the bad outweighs the good,
if you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So, so here's a theory that I have. I believe
very strongly that it's very different when you are coaching
with the upper hand versus when you are trying to
respond to what's happening and it's slipping away. So let
me explain what I mean by that. Early in the season,
they were scoring just like gangbusters in the first quarter,
(15:37):
their first their opening drives were crushing it right. Lately
they have had a lot of hiccups on those opening drives,
and that is interesting because that is where saying Stychen
often is at his best on those scripted early drives.
He is very good at that. That is one of
his strengths. And he was coming up with some haymakers
(15:59):
that right out of the game were really, you know,
throwing knockout punches. And that has been less true in
recent games, whether it's because of penalties, drops, or just
some sort of lack of execution. They've had a lot
of miscues early in games. So he has found himself
now either playing sort of nip and tuck or trailing
(16:22):
and that kind of thing. And then it puts you
as a play caller in a much different situation. Now
the defense has a little upper hand on you. When
when the defense was on the defensive. I know that
sounds stupid, but like when the defensive coordinators were on
the defensive and trying to find answers to kind of,
(16:43):
you know, to kind of stem the flow. Then you know,
Saint Stecken was in a really strong position and he
could he could throw more things at you. But I
just think right now that's not the case. The other
thing is, frankly, they haven't executed as well. They just haven't.
The penalty have been a problem, just and stupid stuff
(17:03):
a lot of times. Right It's like somebody's not on
the line of scrimmage. It's it's false starts, it's drops.
It's just they have not been crisp at all. And
I think that also has to do with coaching too.
You've got to get the best out of your guys,
and he's got to figure out a way to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Are they going to be trying out place kickers? I
always thought you get this late unless somebody's injured. It's
almost better off if you try to work with the
dynamic you have, compared to going out there and holding
a tryout and hoping you're going to find something else,
because clearly, if you had something else, that option would
already be there, or that person would be on somebody
else's team. But will they go through that process this week.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I think it's trending in that way, yes, And I'm
waiting to see today's transactions. I haven't seen them just yet,
but when they do come out, I'm interested to see
if we find out there was some there was some
outs today. They have talked about it for sure, that
I can tell you, and so I will just give
(18:07):
you my personal opinion on it. I agree with you
for the most part. I don't think you should be
overly reactive right to poor performance. However, I think you've
got to have a baseline, and three missed extra points
in a month and a half is too many for me.
It's just too many. I think that is where I
(18:30):
probably draw the line, because frankly, we can talk about,
you know, the miss calls, We can talk about all
that stuff. They if he doesn't miss the extra point,
it's a three point game and not a four point game.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
At the end.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I'm not saying they figure out a way to finish
the drive, but you certainly have a different mindset and
it feels more doable, right. You manage your timeouts differently,
everything's different, right, So I just think that's a big deal.
To me, that's just a really big deal. That's that
has to be like a free throw, you know, at
(19:04):
this level, it just does. I get that it's longer
than it used to be. I understand that. But with
with the way kickers are kicking in today's game, and
with the you know, with the the rules, the way
they've changed, with the ball preparation and all that, we're
seeing record field goal length, right, so a thirty three
yard field goal has to be damn near automatic.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Man. They they need deforce Buckner and his presence in
a big hurry too. That also disappoints me. We hear
like you you have to look up dudes making plays
along that defensive line on the roster, and the dudes
that you know by heart really aren't doing much of anything.
That's problematic.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, And I think on and on the other side,
the other the team, the opponent's defenses are now gaining
an upper hand. So this this compounds the problem. They're
gaining an upper hand because they see that they're not
reacting well to pressure. So for example, and I'm not
changing the subject, I'm just saying, like, this is the
(20:05):
this is the flip side of that, right, The opponent's
defense yesterday, Daniel Jones, I think under pressure, he was
two of eleven, so damn near all of his incompletions
came when they when there was pressure because teams know
he's hurt, so they're sending more pressure. The Texans blitz
more than they typically did on yesterday, and they know
(20:25):
he can't get out of it. He left the pocket
one time yesterday, one time, okay, and he is he
is absolutely compromised. So it's just that's the thing that's
the difference or the impact that pressure can have. And
the Colts, meanwhile, are not applying that kind of pressure
on the other side.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
That is Stevenholder of ESPN and ESPN dot Com, like
you out there and most around here, searching for answers,
and we'll find out I'm sure some things later on
this week, and it's going to tell us. This week
is going to tell us a lot about this group.
That's what I say a little bit earlier. It really is.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I think we'll know where this is going based on
what we see from them. I only even mean this
win or lose, but like, do they do they respond?
You know, do we see a better effort overall? Do
we see a team that looks competent, looks like it
can win. In January, I think we'll get some answers
to those questions in this game.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Pleasures always, thanks for joining us, Steven all right, you
got
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