August 18, 2025 • 39 mins
00:00 - 23:08 - Zak Keefer from The Athletic joins the show! Zak and JMV discuss the Colts QB battle, and who might come out on top! They also discuss how this franchise got here, and why young quarterbacks might struggle coming into the league. They also discussed Zak’s article on former Colts quarterback Andrew Luck!
23:09 - 39:50 - tephen Holder of ESPN joins the show! Stephen and JMV discuss the Colts cornerback situation, and the injuries the group has dealt with! They also dive into the QB battle and who they expect to win the starting job!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Andy Moore Automotive Group potline. He is a friend
of the show. He writes for The Athletic and then
some I think this story's going to be taken off,
and I'm sure we'll get to that in a second.
I do want to start with the Colts, with Zach Kiefer,
who joins us on the Any Moore Automotive Group potline.
What do you think this decision ultimately ends up here,
at least for the start of the season.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Zach, Yeah, all right, the clock's chicken, right, like make
a call. I think it should be Anthony Richardson because
of everything you've talked about the last couple of weeks.
I feel like if he would have fallen on his face,
we would have seen that in the preseason, we would
have seen that in training camp. He's not done that.
He sounds a little bit different. The play has been
(00:41):
a little bit better. He's certainly not a polished prospect. Still,
he's going to be mistakes, but he hasn't given this
job up. But John, I come back to a couple
of things. When I talked to Daniel Jones at camp
a couple of weeks ago, he said, you know, this
is what Shane told us when he sat us down
at the beginning of camp about how the job is
going to be decided as to who gets it, and
(01:02):
he said who can the coaches trust? And then on
Saturday after they lost the Packers, the first thing Shane
Stikeen said when he talked about how he's going to
make this decision was the operation. So that gives me
a little bit of pause. And there's a little bit
of national buds at least from the national reporters that
you know helicopter into camp and talk to Shane Stikeen about,
(01:25):
you know, Daniel Jones being the guy that he can
trust a little bit more. I still think unless there's
something I don't know about Anthony Richardson behind closed doors,
not preparing or all that which I've heard none of
this training camp, if he's preparing, if he's been the guy,
if he's been mature, I go with the kid. I
let him start his third season under center as a guy.
(01:47):
But at this point, it's late August, you need to
get this team solidified because you have all those injuries
you just mentioned, like, you need to have this quarterback
position solidified a SAP. It's time to finish this competition and.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Pick a guy noticed there being a gap whatsoever between
these two because to me, the essence of a competition
is one guy pushing the other and then somebody raising
the bar of their game.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Because of that competition.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And I know we're not privy to all that goes on,
and I sure as hell haven't been up there every
moment in writing on a notepad what has transpired, But
from what I've witnessed, especially when it's mattered in games
so far, you know, other than a pinky going east
and west instead of north and south and not reading
a certain situation, I don't think there's a wide gap
at all between these two guys. I don't think they've
(02:37):
raised their game because of one another in this competition,
do you.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
You know that's the funny part. I agree completely with you.
I don't think there's a wide gap because I don't
think either of them are very good, Like can we
just can we just say what oh yeah going on here?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Like daily here and yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And the other thing I agree with that you've said
several times is they're both gonna play this season, Like
I really believe that. Whoever you decide to start week one.
I mean, just based on how things have gone, if
it's gonna be Richardson, I mean, the guy couldn't. He
couldn't last one preseason dropping without getting knocked out of
the game. And I know that's unfortunate and that's not
what they want to happen. But the reality is I
(03:18):
expect both of them to start games this season. And
the other reality is, let's say this is a fringe
playoff roster. They've got a lot of pieces that are
really good football players, right, they got the new DC,
they should be better on defense, They've got weapons on offense,
they've got the new tight end. All that, we all
know that none of it matters unless they get good
quarterback play. And I'm not convinced they're going to get
(03:38):
good quarterback play for seventeen weeks, and in this division,
which is getting a little bit better. Cam Ward looks good,
he's a rookie. The Jaguars have to be better, Lawrence
has to be better, and the Texans, if they fix
their offensive line, should still be the best team in
the division. I'm just not sure where the Colts stack
up in terms of quarterback play in the AFC South,
which remains a very winnable division. But when you don't
(04:01):
have that spot figured out, does anything else really matter?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
There's a philosophy that's called in sports, it's not where
you start, it's where you finish. Can that be applied
to this whole debate and the start of the season
a quarterback for the Colts? I mean, does it matter
where you start? Just matters where you finish. And I've
said this before, Zach, I don't care if you're a quarterback.
(04:26):
If I'm quarterback, doesn't matter to me. This is such
a juiceless organization right now that needs, you know, an
infusion of some winning, some positivity, not just in a
fleeting moment. It doesn't matter who it is as long
as that, in some form or fashion is provided. Is
(04:47):
that fair?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
One hundred percent? And you know, I go back to
early June and I kept getting asked some questions about
the Colts quarterback situation, and I said, you know, you
better enjoyed the PACER's playoffs run because this is really
right now and I'm not sure the fall and the
winter is going to be that fun. I will say this,
and I'm doing this quarterback project about why young quarterbacks fail,
(05:09):
and I'm not saying that Anthony Richardson is going to fail,
but I've been looking into basically asking sources from around
the league quarterbacks included why teams fail young quarterbacks so often?
And the reality is a lot of times they don't
make these guys earn it from the jump, and Peyton
Manning said that was a big part of it that
he sees across the league. And I will give the
(05:30):
Colts credit. If this season has any juice, it's the
hope that rests with number five. And we've seen it
in camp, We've seen it in a little bit of
the preseason, like he can still do some special things
and there's no reason to think he can't continue to
get better if everything is right there in front of
him and he buys in. So I will give the
Colts credit for running a legit quarterback competition. I really
(05:51):
do feel like this is legit that is coming from
everything I've seen in Westfield and then also some really
long conversations with Chris Ballader with the summer. This is
what they regretted the first time around they gave him
the job. The first quarterback competition with Gardner Minshew was
an absolute sham. The kid wasn't ready, and the worst
part was he played well, then he got hurt, and
(06:12):
then he wasn't in the building every day, and he
needed to be in the building to build those daily habits.
What happens is he doesn't know what it looks like.
He doesn't know what a starting quarterback looks like, and
in year two he just doesn't have the routine and
his preparation slips, and we are where we are today
because of that. I will give the Colts credit. If
Anthony Richardson earns this job. He really did earn it
(06:34):
this time, and that's the only thing that matters this
season is if he earns it, then let's go see
what he's made of. Let's go see if he's the guy.
Because you can't keep doing this every year unless you
want to keep talking about this next August.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I know, well, it's funny we're going to talk about
something in a minute that there are so many things
revolving around in the past ten or so years of
this franchise, and I think most people around here are
and tired of talking about And I thought the dynamics
act that you presented regarding the pacers, you know you
had in the final months of the season here recently,
(07:12):
just such an enthusiastic time of which people around here
haven't seen forever, and sure as hell haven't seen regarding
this football team and forever, just you know, the occasional
moment here or there, and I think now more than ever,
people are starved for it.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I mean, just absolutely anything.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
But I also bring up this cautionary tale. If you
end up having either one of these guys out there
and you show signs here or there, I mean when
you compare it to recent history, I mean, how far
do you have to raise the bar for this to
be a legitimate path either or to take for the
(07:53):
short term, not just this season, but past this season?
What signs have to be seen you think for this
to be legitimately continued the way that it's gone.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Man, I'm gonna have to see a lot, John, I mean,
don't you like, doesn't the fan base like I know
you know, and I grew up here, so like the
AFC South Division titles were a birth right, ten eleven,
twelve wins were a birthright. I've had Peyton tell me
a million times, like, you don't just roll out of
bed and win twelve games. Well, Peyton, you did like
you guys did that, and that's at the standard, and
(08:25):
that's a little bit unfair. And then luck in those
teams they continued that on. I get that, but the
reality is, you want to see how far this team's fallen.
They haven't won a division and god, and I don't
know how long since like twenty fourteen, every other team
in the division has won it twice. And we're not
talking about like the AFC West that's loaded, We're not
talking about a great division. Like the reason the Titans
(08:48):
have had success, the reason the Jaguars have gone on
a little bit of a run is partly because the
Colts incompetence, Like the reason the Texans are the teams
right now is because the Colts haven't figured this out.
And I mean, it's the Arts in Week one, and
I know it's just one game, but like, for God's sake,
did you win an opener for the first time since
like the Revolutionary War? Like it feels like that just
sets the tone for the next six weeks of the
(09:10):
season where they're just always playing catch up. And I
remember Frank Bright telling me like they are mentally exhausted
from climbing out of the bowles. They take themselves every
single September. So look, everything's changed, right, We're talking about
winning the opener and how important that is in the
week seven in the seventeen week season. But I think
I think that's going to tell you a lot, right,
(09:30):
if you're going to buy into richardson this season, if
he indeed is the guy like start fast, like build
some hope, get the fan base behind you, like this
fan base deserves some consistency and less chaos because it
just feels like the last gosh. I mean, I've been
off the beat two and a half years and it
still feels like the same chaos I covered in the
twenty twenty two season. So we'll see. I know they
(09:52):
want quiet, I know they want consistency. I feel like
they've done a pretty good job of that during camp,
considering they were holding you know, maybe the least exciting
PV competition of full time. But you know, we'll see.
And if Richard saying if the clicks man, there's hope,
Like hope is not hard to find in that kid.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Here's what's funny is that Keifer's on the Andy Morra
Automotive Group hotline.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I always highlight.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I'm not afraid to describe the importance of an early
season game, whether it's Week one or what have you,
the importance of the schedule in particular games. And I
look at this Miami game and consider their situation, and
there are some similarities with them to that of the Colts,
but in their secondary where it is a absolute new
(10:40):
and fresh experience. All right, when you're dealing with a
secondary that's either dinged up or new because of defections?
Which one of these quarterbacks do you think, I'm just
talking about Miami to get off to that good start
in which you describe hasn't happened in absolutely forever. Who
would be the best guy to do that against that
(11:03):
team that would seem to be in week number one,
very vulnerable here in the Miami Dolphins.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, I'm with you. Like for some teams the opener
matters a lot. For like the Chiefs and the Bills
and those teams, like it doesn't matter at all. I
remember saying in the mid two thousands, like talking with
Mike Chapel, like the Colts didn't play a consequential game
until like January, right, because nothing really mattered when you're
that good until you get to the postseason. It's the
complete opposite with what we're talking about. So let's go
(11:33):
back to last year. Anthony Richardson makes maybe the greatest
throw I've ever seen in an NFL game for that
touchdown to Al Pierce. Right, they're playing the Texans, win
a division game, win a huge division game against the
team that's going to ultimately win the division crown on
your home field. And what happens. They have a third
and seven and the defense you're talking about, the secondary
(11:53):
you're talking about, plays that stupid soft off the ball
coverage and gives Nico k that comeback route and the
Texans win the game. Texans didn't play very well. I
was in their locker room afterward. They were a little
surprised at how sloppy they played, and they were still
able to get the victory. So I think it does
say a lot. And how you come out with that
secondary against the Dolphins that first week of September, I
(12:16):
think it's going to tell you a lot because it's
going to be a tough test. Right, They're going to
run all over the field, Like I mean, those receivers
are fast, dude, So you spend a lot of money
on buying them and all the additions you made in
the secondary. It's time to play up on the line
and play more physical. And I know coach Venturi has
talked about that a lot. I've heard a lot of
good things about that group in camp. But the reality
(12:38):
is what you started the question with is there's no
other position group in football that gets dinged up more
than a secondary. Hamstrings can linger for six weeks. It's
just the nature of it. And the fact that they're
signing the guy and Zavian Howard that didn't play football
last year. I mean that tells you what they think
of the current state of their secondary. Brents can't stay
on the field. I mean that's concerning, really concerning, because
(13:00):
the Dolphins will throw it all over the field very quickly,
and you know Daniel's Mike, and Daniel has been scheming
up this game for weeks.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Well, yeah, My thing is too, is that's a team
you have to have a quarterback that you believe in
that's able to really take advantage of a secondary that
would seemingly be described as you just described the Colts.
So that's that's kind of where I wonder if this
decision does kind of hinge on. We got to get
off to a great start, you know, And just I
(13:30):
guess ultimately how interchangeable these decisions at quarterback can be made,
because that's the way that it has felt here in
recent history at that position. Just whatever happens, guy's not ready,
guy needs to concentrate more guys injured. I just wonder
if the best the best place to go for quarterback
in week number one is the guy that can beat
(13:53):
and be successful against a secondary that's very much like
the Colts with the Dolphins that's dinged up beyond belief.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Let me ask you this, John, if they go with
Daniel Jones, do they lose the fan base? Not that
that matters, right because winning solves everything. But I think
it's pretty clear what you have in Daniel Jones. He's
the same quarterback from what I've seen in the preseason
that he was in New York, which is fine average,
not a guy you build around long term. I think
they're still a little bit there with Richardson you can
(14:23):
tap into even now, even with the inconsistencies. But do
you think the fan base would really tune this team
out if they go with Jones and he struggles in
that first game against the Dolphins.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Well, you mentioned the Revolutionary War reference a little bit early.
I'll give you the Civil War reference. There is a
gap between older crimudgety folks. I guess like me and
I believe Richardson is going to start, but most of
the older generation they want to see Jones because they
believe that they know what they have in Richardson. I
(14:57):
think it's the younger generation, and especial that the video dorkery.
Some not all, but the younger generation believe Anthony Richardson
is something on the field that he might be in
a video game, and he's not been close to it.
So I think that there's a gap between the younger
generation that are Colts fans and the older generation that
are Colts fans. And people think that I'm trying to
(15:19):
take sides and call the younger generation dorks, which I
guess I am, but I'm also referencing myself and my
generation as crimogony. I don't give a crap. I don't
care if it's you or I who's a quarterback, as
long as you can get off to a good start
and you can show some signs. Finally, consistency wise, at
that position, but I think that is where it is.
(15:42):
It's funny, I think that the convenient operation would be
going with Richardson because you know, at some point the
inevitable will occur. It is going to be an injury
or it's going to be an effectiveness, and if it's not,
then you know that'll be finally and you'll feel good
(16:02):
about it. But I think that we've all been kind
of accustomed to seeing what this is all about with
him and this point in the situation just like this,
and until we see it differently, I think that's what
we're going to believe, and that's how things are framed
up with Colts fans here regarding that position on those
two players, I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And I think you nailed it on maybe the two
sectors of the fan base who are you rooting for
one side or the other. And I think it's fascinating
that the younger fans are are still very much in
Richardson camp, despite a lot of obvious evidence that says
he's not been consistent enough as a pastor. I mean,
forty seven percent completion percentage is just untenable in this league.
(16:45):
But look, this isn't just about Richardson. This is about
Shane stich it and I don't know where he stands
in Carly Ercy Gordon's mind right now, but this is
a litmus test for him this season. So pick whoever
you want, Shane, pick whichever quarterback you want. But like
you said, John, like it doesn't matter which one it is.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
At the end of the day, you got to win games.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
You've got to win games. And if this team is
intop a tent halfway through the season like they were
last year, benching their starter, not exactly giving a reason,
and then you know, James Boyd and I story sort
of exploding in terms of what all was going on
behind the scenes at the end of the year with
players questioning into leadership, like you can't have that again
and keep this contingent as is. They're just running in circles.
(17:27):
The fan base is set up with it, you're fed
up with it. And I don't blame the fan base
or you one bit.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
That's not the hell of reflection on the operation of
this group either from top to bottom, which certainly has
stood out here most recently, Za key for the athletic
is with us now. I suggest this started when they
potted ways with Peyton Manning. But I think you can
also backpedal to Andrew Luck and deciding to retire two
(17:55):
weeks before the start of the season as to why
they find themselves in this particular purgatory. And I saw
here recently you caught up what's the former NFL quarterback?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, this is exactly what you want to be talking
about today, right.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yeah, And you know we're good, We're good friends.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I love having you on, But frankly, I would rather
jump out this window of the building downtown on the Circle.
Didn't have to hear any more about but Andrew Luck.
But I respect your work, buddy, I do, And I
know you go about it hard and let's hear about it.
And I won't jump out the window.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
No, I totally understand it. Yes, I've gotten a little
bit of flat from cold fans. I'm sure going to
go back and I and I get it. I didn't
want to go back.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Hey, Zach, if you were to come on this show tomorrow,
I'd have him on tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So no, it's the story is not a cult story.
It's a Stanford story. I was told to go out
there and basically figure out how he came back to football,
and you can't figure out how he came back to
football without starting with how he left football. And there's
not a lot of cults in the story. But you know,
the most interesting quote that's being aggregated by every being
(19:00):
the aggregator out there is that he told me he
was going to play footba until he was forty or
forty five. And to that, I said, are you as
being kidding me? I think that was my reaction. But
we don't need to go back to that. It doesn't matter.
It's not going to change anything. The reality is he
still feels guilt for how it ended. And I remember
what you said the next day because it was in
(19:22):
my podcast series that I did about what happened. He said,
he doesn't know anything to anybody, but this decision hoses everybody.
It just does. Those were your words, and boy, six
years later, those those are very correct words. Because it
cost Frank Reich his job. It might cross Chris Ballad
his job. They have not figured out who this quarterback
(19:44):
is and that's the reality. They've shuffled through God knows
how many. I covered all of them until Richardson showed
up in twenty twenty three. But Andrew's really happy. He's
really revived by the challenge that he has at Stanford.
He's the GM there. It's really good to see that
he's happy. He's doing well. But there's no doubt how
it ended, when it ended, and why it ended bothered him.
(20:07):
He never regretted his decision. It was the right thing
he did for him at that time. But that doesn't
mean it didn't hurt like hell, and that doesn't mean
that there's still a little bit of guilt in his
body about the guys he walked away from and when
he did it.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Does he feel guilty about the fan base and the
people around here that supported monetarily with their disposable income,
about the timing of it, especially because listen, we know
this to be true. But Peyton Manning always said, all right,
if you want to quit, you quit in March. If
you're that important as a quarterback to your team, you
know you don't do it when he did it, and
that was always something that was always a point of
contention about this. Is there any guilt about doing it
(20:45):
to people around here that's been hard earned money to
go and have been left with kind of this product
in despair?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Since I think so.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, I think that's very real for him. I don't
think he's got enough credit for kind of taking over
after Peyton. I mean I asked him, like what his
rookie year was like, and he said he was swimming
upstream the entire season. And I'm like, Andrew, you had
one of the best years of any rookie quarterback in history.
Your coaches in the hospital, and you won eleven games
(21:14):
with a bad team. And I'm not dismissing that team,
but that's what Bruce arians called them. And he was
the interim coach. He said, we were crap. They won
eleven games and went to the playoffs because that kid
was that good. And Andrew said, I was barely keeping
my head above water. So it was just a remarkable start.
But I think he carried all of it with him,
and I think that's why he stayed here for four
(21:34):
years after he retired. He loved Indy, he loved the people,
and there was a guilt. I mean, the guy had
five minutes from the team facility, like that's he.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Had guilted taking twenty five million dollars that he didn't earn.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Do you think, oh, that's a good question. That's a
good question. That's a complicated question. But no, we did
not get into that.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Okay, Well, I mean, yeah, I'm just curious.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I didn't want to. The last thing I wanted to
do was is rehash some of that. But I do
respect your riding, buddy, and now I wanted you to
be able to promote that. And I do know it
was more about Stanford and what he's doing now than
it was then. But it's tough to talk about that dynamic,
as you well know around here without bringing stuff like
that up because.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
When they figure out who the quarterback is.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, yes, that's why he's never going to be really,
I don't know ever in the Ring of Honor because
of that.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So to me, yeah, I don't know. That's a good question.
But in my mind, you got to put t Y
Hilton first, and you got to put out a minetarian first.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, in my mind you got to put like anybody
else in first on anybody anyway. Hey, they can find
it at the Athletic right by. Yes, sir, Hey man,
it's good to talk with you too, Stay in touch
and thank you. Your your riding is so good. I
did not jump out the window.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Well, that's the nicest thing I've heard all that time.
Any time, and I promise you, I promise you next
time we will not talk about number twelve.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Well you know what I'm going to be talking about
the next time, and say, this quarterback situation.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
So we'll be ready for that anytime.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
On the Andy Moore Auto Monive Group potline. Let's get
him on here ESPN, ESPN dot com. He's got a
bail in about seventeen minutes. I'm assuming Stephen Holder, we
got breaking news at twenty after the hour. Are you
doing a live hit on ESPN's What is going to
take you away from this incredible program?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
No, just my uber duties.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Wait a minute, you gotta make it more compelling than that.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Come on, Yeah, I mean, but however, the breaking news
always comes at the worst time. So if it's going
to happen, it will happen when I'm in the car
with her.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yes, yes, exactly, I'm my experience.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I'm not trying to bury the lead right here, but
I will jump to that because we got plenty of
time for that in a second. But the hits literally
keep on coming. Hunter Wahler, the season ender with the
Liz franc injury. We know about Blake Freelan breaking the leg.
We saw that on Saturday afternoon. I mean an already
(24:07):
dang secondary. We got to go out and get a
thirty two year old corner that didn't play a year
ago and Xavian Howard. This is a scrambling bunch right now,
player personnel wise, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, I think the frontline players will mostly be available.
I think in the short term. I do think that,
like you know, the Kenny Morris for example.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
And such.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
But the problem is your depth is really taking a
hit right now. And when your depth starts to erode
this early, that's when you get into problems because you know,
you you typically you over the course of a season,
you are going to eat into your depth because injuries
are guaranteed, and you know that's just the game. It
(24:52):
is what it is. But when they're coming this early,
now you're scrambling before you've even hit the starting line.
That's a bad place to be. And frankly, they were.
They were there to a degree with the secondary last
year at this time and that ended up being a
big problem. You know, So we can't I don't think
(25:13):
we can sort of, you know, downplay this and say, well,
you know they have time or what have you. I mean,
it is really early to be eating into your depth
to this degree. So yeah, let's see if they can
get through it.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Is the whole Howard connection relationship because of that that visit,
that workout in Cincinnati and December with lou Anroumo when
he was still employed by the Bengals. Is that how
this all materialized? I know that that obviously, you're just
you know, any port in the proverbial storm here, But
is that how this connection was made?
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Well, the connection between him and and Arumo goes all
the way back to Miami his rookie year. So he
was a defensive backs coach his first two years in Miami,
and there was that workout. Yes, that the Bengals worked him.
You know, they had a bunch of defensive issues last year,
as you probably remember, which led to lou getting fired.
(26:06):
So they worked him out in December. He kind of
liked what he saw, but they worked him out again
here in the last day or so. Is my understanding
the Colts did. They had an in personal workout here.
They were pretty impressed. I mean I didn't see it.
I'm just going by what I was told, and they
thought he was in pretty good shape and pretty good
health at least, you know, it looked like he could
(26:27):
still play. I'm very curious to see him because all
I can tell you is that no one signed this
guy last year, And to me, that's a big red flag.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
You know, why is that?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
And so I don't know. I haven't gotten a good
answer on that, but there were some legal issues that
may have played a role in that. I don't know.
He's not been accused of a crime, but he's got
you know, if you can look it up for yourself,
there's a lot going on there, but it's some it's
who's with women that he dated, and there's some stuff
(27:04):
going on there. Lawsuits have been filed and what have you.
Whether that was a part of it, I don't know,
but I do wonder. Right, here's a guy who a
four time pro bowler, who was an All Pro in
twenty twenty, ten interceptions in twenty twenty, and he was
sitting on the couch all last year. That's that's kind
of stunning, right, even for a guy at that age.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
You know, So.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I want to see, you know, what are what are
the cults seeing that no one else is seeing. You know,
That's what I'm interested in seeing when he gets out
there to practice, presumably tomorrow. But I'll be looking, I'll
be evaluating and see what he looks like.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
But you, uh, yeah, you would think that. I mean,
it's more in this case, you werell the dice here
more than just it being a necessity for camp and
a body here. Right, Maybe if you're just going to
do that, you just bring in, you know, dude from wherever.
(28:00):
But yeah, I mean when you look at you know,
twenty twenty four was not great for him when it
comes to accusations.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Steven, No, that is true.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Look, I think you're right. I mean, they're making a
calculation here that tells me they need him, and it
also suggests perhaps that Jalen Jones injury is going to
be a while. You know. They they did admit, Shane
Stiken did admit that one that hamstring because he and
(28:34):
Juju Brents have hamstring injuries. Shane did admit that that
Jones hamstring was worse and more of more concern than
Juju Brent's. So I have to assume maybe that thing
is a little more serious than maybe we realized. For
them to make this move, because you are correct. If
you're just looking for somebody to get you through the
(28:55):
third pre season game, you know, and take some practice snaps,
well anybody can do that, right, But this was this
was a somewhat aggressive move there. They're potentially going to
pay him a decent amount of money if what's been
reported is true. I'm sure there's a lot of incentives
in there, but I think four or five million is
the max on this, so it's not nothing, you know.
(29:18):
So yeah, I agree with.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You on that.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
This says that this guy could be, you know, someone
they think is going to be here.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
For a while.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Stephen Holder vsp at ESPN dot com. He's on the
Andy Moore Automotive Group potline. We've buried the lead long enough,
but I'm going to give you one more minute of
it too. I talked to Kenny Moore on Thursday, and
he was very concerned that I would violate hippo laws,
so in a very funny way he expressed it. But
(29:46):
you don't seem yourself concerned about this being a long
term into the regular season situation for him.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
I don't believe. So that's not what I've heard. I
don't know if you can, you know, if you can
kind of.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Shed No, he didn't. He just said, but he said,
you can't be violating my hipp or something like that.
And I said, I don't even know what that means.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Medical privacy laws.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I don't really want to get into your medical privacy.
I'm just asking if you're okay, So right.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Right right?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
I think that that one, at least from from what's
been you know, kind of uh suggested to us, Uh,
that won't be a long term injury. So I'm just
gonna kind of count on that being true and and
hopefully that is the case. But they don't seem terribly
worried about that one. Uh, Kenny's you know, Kenny's a veteran.
(30:48):
He'll be he'll be ready to go, you know, with
with a couple of weeks of practice. I presume they
still have three weeks, you know before their opener. So
they're they're feeling pretty good about that. So they're giving
these guys a chance to really heal and get to
the starting line, you know, in one piece.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
He is Stephen Holder with us all right. Finally, now
with the quarterback situation, I'm mentioning this at the outset. Normally,
when you have a competition, the hope is to make
one or the other in this competition raise.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
The bar of their game. I haven't seen that.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So to me, if we haven't seen that, then it
goes back to square one, and square one equates to
five in week one to me, what say you?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
So I would disagree a little bit. I think that
what we have seen from Anthony Richardson is an improvement.
And I don't know what it's going to look like
on Sundays yet, but just in terms of him doing
the things that are improving on things that were problematic
for him, he has done that.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Now that's not gonna.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Get you know, fixing your footwork isn't going to turn
him into you know, Michael Vick Tomorrow or Patrick Mahomes
I guess.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Or something.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
But but it is I think a big step. Because
his accuracy was bad last year, as you know, if
you saw the if you saw the games, those feet
and that footwork will help that accuracy. So that's good.
And we have seen him throw more accurately, you know,
So that's good, and particularly in the short and intermediate stuff,
(32:25):
which was just a mess last year, so that's been
much better. He's not going to be a Kirk Cousin's
seventy percent passer.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
That's not his game.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
He's never going to be that, I don't think. But
if he can be closer to sixty percent, then it
becomes workable. Now to your point, though, I don't think
this was a situation where one guy like significantly outplayed
the other guy. That's that's not what this was. They
were pretty close all the way through. And that's why
(32:56):
I have been emphasizing that. I believe some of the
little things that maybe are not as obvious to us
will will be a big factor in deciding this for
same sike In, and I'm talking about things he mentioned
on Saturday, you know, lining, getting guys lined up, making
the checks at the line of scrimmage, getting the protections right.
(33:18):
You know, those are areas that Daniel Jones is going
to be better at than Anthony Richardson because he got
seven years in the league and played a lot of games.
So I don't want people to to overlook that. That's
an important part of this for Same Siken, agree or disagree.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
What's your tail of the tape right now?
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Well, if I'm making the decision and I'm not. No
one asked me, which I found weird.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
I just did, but.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
No one that no one at uh fifty sixth Street,
then I would I would go with Richardson. And my
my take on this is pretty simple.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I think.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
I think what you lose with Richardson versus Daniel Jones maybe,
you know, the consistency. I think you're also sacrificing some
things though that'll cost you. And what you're sacrificing is
the higher ceiling, the explosiveness and just that moxie that
we saw late in games against like the Patriots and
(34:20):
the Jets. You know, there was some sort of like
you know, stiff upper lip there, you know, if that
makes any sense, And I'm saying, you know, he showed something,
then I think moxye is the right word, right. He
showed the ability to stand tall at the end of
the game and make plays, winning plays, you know. And
(34:41):
Daniel Jones, I think what you're doing there is Daniel
Jones does a little more along for the ride, and
Daniel Jones is just at the controls and if everything
goes well, you can win because your quarterback probably won't
like screw it up, but if you're going to win
you a game. I feel less strongly about that with
Daniel Jones. So I think the likely outcome is that
(35:04):
you end up in largely the same place no matter
which quarterback you play. So play the guy with the upside,
play the young guy, the guy you haven't seen for
six years, be the same guy.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
That's what I did, And you also know that relatively
quickly there's going to be a reason not to play
him anymore. And then Jones is going to be thrust
into that category anyway.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Now, well, I mean that's absolutely does that play.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Does that at all play a role in the thought
process between you know, ers Gordon Mallard.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
And Steichen in this final decision category?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I mean it would for me. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
You would think, right, You would think I don't know
where they stand, but you would think, man, here's why
I would say yes, Because if he either screws it up,
if he becomes the guy we saw in Houston last year,
if he turns into that guy all of a sudden
and he's overwhelmed again, will you set him down and
you tell him thanks? You know, we appreciate the effort
(36:04):
we're playing Daniel Jones, you shake hands and you walk away.
If he gets hurt, which he certainly has done. It
is what it is.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Right, at least you.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Have had another look and really just kind of made
sure of what you have there. If he does at
the start this year, if you go with Daniel Jones,
let's say Daniel Jones plays wire to wire. I have
no idea, but let's let's play this out right. If
Daniel Jones plays wire to wire, then what are we
doing at the end of the season. What is your
(36:35):
quarterback future is? Who is Anthony Richardson? I don't I
mean none of that. None of the questions have been answered, right,
So at least give yourself an opportunity to answer the question,
is what I would say. But again they didn't ask me.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Steven Holder of ESPN and ESPN dot COM's with us,
I know you got a run in just a second.
So let's just say, decision comes out. Let me you
get a story later off tonight, decision comes out med
official coming up tomorrow. How does that make Cincinnati look
on Saturday? How are they going to approach that? Personnel wise?
Speaker 4 (37:08):
So if I think the way to play Cincinnati on Saturday.
Is nobody plays just I mean, it needs to be, frankly,
to be blunt, it needs to be the future Amazon
Warehouse employees playing in that game. Okay, they have too
many injuries, they're too beat up, and I think frankly,
(37:29):
they don't have a lot of roster decisions to make here. Okay,
they know their team for the most part. The guys
they got to make decisions about are frankly, the guys
who probably need to play in that game anyway, the
guys at the bottom of the roster. So player, rookies,
play your your young guys, play, you know, the long shots.
Let them get some film. That's what I do. I
(37:50):
don't think there's any reason to put these guys out there.
I mean, they played a lot of starters on Saturday
this past Saturday. I think that was a good enough look.
I would move on with my life and and get
onto week one.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
That's what I do.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Any surprise categories of recognizable names that may not make
this roster that we would see is cut here?
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Anybody good question?
Speaker 4 (38:15):
I don't. I don't think so. I think most of
the spots are spoken for. Yeah, I mean, I I
don't think there's going to be anything terribly shocking. Frankly,
I really don't and and and frankly, the injuries have
maybe ensured that that. You know, maybe some guys who
are on the bubble, they probably make it because they
(38:37):
need to death in certain places, you know what I mean.
So so I don't think you're gonna have a lot
of shockers. This will be I think one of the
easier cuts they've made. And uh, they'll they'll be all right.
But the question is going to be health and and
certainly under center as well.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
All right.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Most important game of the season is week number one.
By the way, you've heard it here first. I think
I say that every year, even more mad find this
year though.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Yeah, there's something to be said for getting off to
a good start. If you are every single season climbing
out of a hole either oh and one or oh
to two, it's not good for your psyche. It's not
good for just the overall morale of your team. I
don't think it's the end all, be all, per se,
but there that has to be exhausting to continually be
(39:24):
climbing out of a hole after Week one, I mean,
for what twelve straight years or something. I mean that
enough is enough, right, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
You got it all right, Go pick up and we'll
hope no breaking news happens while you're doing that. I
was hoping for something a little bit more profound, but
that's understandable. Thanks, buddy, I appreciate Hey. Great sitting you
on Saturday too. Yep, so the Steven Holder ESPN ESPN
dot com
The Andy Moore Automotive Group potline. He is a friend
of the show. He writes for The Athletic and then
some I think this story's going to be taken off,
and I'm sure we'll get to that in a second.
I do want to start with the Colts, with Zach Kiefer,
who joins us on the Any Moore Automotive Group potline.
What do you think this decision ultimately ends up here,
at least for the start of the season.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Zach, Yeah, all right, the clock's chicken, right, like make
a call. I think it should be Anthony Richardson because
of everything you've talked about the last couple of weeks.
I feel like if he would have fallen on his face,
we would have seen that in the preseason, we would
have seen that in training camp. He's not done that.
He sounds a little bit different. The play has been
(00:41):
a little bit better. He's certainly not a polished prospect. Still,
he's going to be mistakes, but he hasn't given this
job up. But John, I come back to a couple
of things. When I talked to Daniel Jones at camp
a couple of weeks ago, he said, you know, this
is what Shane told us when he sat us down
at the beginning of camp about how the job is
going to be decided as to who gets it, and
(01:02):
he said who can the coaches trust? And then on
Saturday after they lost the Packers, the first thing Shane
Stikeen said when he talked about how he's going to
make this decision was the operation. So that gives me
a little bit of pause. And there's a little bit
of national buds at least from the national reporters that
you know helicopter into camp and talk to Shane Stikeen about,
(01:25):
you know, Daniel Jones being the guy that he can
trust a little bit more. I still think unless there's
something I don't know about Anthony Richardson behind closed doors,
not preparing or all that which I've heard none of
this training camp, if he's preparing, if he's been the guy,
if he's been mature, I go with the kid. I
let him start his third season under center as a guy.
(01:47):
But at this point, it's late August, you need to
get this team solidified because you have all those injuries
you just mentioned, like, you need to have this quarterback
position solidified a SAP. It's time to finish this competition and.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Pick a guy noticed there being a gap whatsoever between
these two because to me, the essence of a competition
is one guy pushing the other and then somebody raising
the bar of their game.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Because of that competition.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And I know we're not privy to all that goes on,
and I sure as hell haven't been up there every
moment in writing on a notepad what has transpired, But
from what I've witnessed, especially when it's mattered in games
so far, you know, other than a pinky going east
and west instead of north and south and not reading
a certain situation, I don't think there's a wide gap
at all between these two guys. I don't think they've
(02:37):
raised their game because of one another in this competition,
do you.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
You know that's the funny part. I agree completely with you.
I don't think there's a wide gap because I don't
think either of them are very good, Like can we
just can we just say what oh yeah going on here?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Like daily here and yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And the other thing I agree with that you've said
several times is they're both gonna play this season, Like
I really believe that. Whoever you decide to start week one.
I mean, just based on how things have gone, if
it's gonna be Richardson, I mean, the guy couldn't. He
couldn't last one preseason dropping without getting knocked out of
the game. And I know that's unfortunate and that's not
what they want to happen. But the reality is I
(03:18):
expect both of them to start games this season. And
the other reality is, let's say this is a fringe
playoff roster. They've got a lot of pieces that are
really good football players, right, they got the new DC,
they should be better on defense, They've got weapons on offense,
they've got the new tight end. All that, we all
know that none of it matters unless they get good
quarterback play. And I'm not convinced they're going to get
(03:38):
good quarterback play for seventeen weeks, and in this division,
which is getting a little bit better. Cam Ward looks good,
he's a rookie. The Jaguars have to be better, Lawrence
has to be better, and the Texans, if they fix
their offensive line, should still be the best team in
the division. I'm just not sure where the Colts stack
up in terms of quarterback play in the AFC South,
which remains a very winnable division. But when you don't
(04:01):
have that spot figured out, does anything else really matter?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
There's a philosophy that's called in sports, it's not where
you start, it's where you finish. Can that be applied
to this whole debate and the start of the season
a quarterback for the Colts? I mean, does it matter
where you start? Just matters where you finish. And I've
said this before, Zach, I don't care if you're a quarterback.
(04:26):
If I'm quarterback, doesn't matter to me. This is such
a juiceless organization right now that needs, you know, an
infusion of some winning, some positivity, not just in a
fleeting moment. It doesn't matter who it is as long
as that, in some form or fashion is provided. Is
(04:47):
that fair?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
One hundred percent? And you know, I go back to
early June and I kept getting asked some questions about
the Colts quarterback situation, and I said, you know, you
better enjoyed the PACER's playoffs run because this is really
right now and I'm not sure the fall and the
winter is going to be that fun. I will say this,
and I'm doing this quarterback project about why young quarterbacks fail,
(05:09):
and I'm not saying that Anthony Richardson is going to fail,
but I've been looking into basically asking sources from around
the league quarterbacks included why teams fail young quarterbacks so often?
And the reality is a lot of times they don't
make these guys earn it from the jump, and Peyton
Manning said that was a big part of it that
he sees across the league. And I will give the
(05:30):
Colts credit. If this season has any juice, it's the
hope that rests with number five. And we've seen it
in camp, We've seen it in a little bit of
the preseason, like he can still do some special things
and there's no reason to think he can't continue to
get better if everything is right there in front of
him and he buys in. So I will give the
Colts credit for running a legit quarterback competition. I really
(05:51):
do feel like this is legit that is coming from
everything I've seen in Westfield and then also some really
long conversations with Chris Ballader with the summer. This is
what they regretted the first time around they gave him
the job. The first quarterback competition with Gardner Minshew was
an absolute sham. The kid wasn't ready, and the worst
part was he played well, then he got hurt, and
(06:12):
then he wasn't in the building every day, and he
needed to be in the building to build those daily habits.
What happens is he doesn't know what it looks like.
He doesn't know what a starting quarterback looks like, and
in year two he just doesn't have the routine and
his preparation slips, and we are where we are today
because of that. I will give the Colts credit. If
Anthony Richardson earns this job. He really did earn it
(06:34):
this time, and that's the only thing that matters this
season is if he earns it, then let's go see
what he's made of. Let's go see if he's the guy.
Because you can't keep doing this every year unless you
want to keep talking about this next August.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I know, well, it's funny we're going to talk about
something in a minute that there are so many things
revolving around in the past ten or so years of
this franchise, and I think most people around here are
and tired of talking about And I thought the dynamics
act that you presented regarding the pacers, you know you
had in the final months of the season here recently,
(07:12):
just such an enthusiastic time of which people around here
haven't seen forever, and sure as hell haven't seen regarding
this football team and forever, just you know, the occasional
moment here or there, and I think now more than ever,
people are starved for it.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I mean, just absolutely anything.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
But I also bring up this cautionary tale. If you
end up having either one of these guys out there
and you show signs here or there, I mean when
you compare it to recent history, I mean, how far
do you have to raise the bar for this to
be a legitimate path either or to take for the
(07:53):
short term, not just this season, but past this season?
What signs have to be seen you think for this
to be legitimately continued the way that it's gone.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Man, I'm gonna have to see a lot, John, I mean,
don't you like, doesn't the fan base like I know
you know, and I grew up here, so like the
AFC South Division titles were a birth right, ten eleven,
twelve wins were a birthright. I've had Peyton tell me
a million times, like, you don't just roll out of
bed and win twelve games. Well, Peyton, you did like
you guys did that, and that's at the standard, and
(08:25):
that's a little bit unfair. And then luck in those
teams they continued that on. I get that, but the
reality is, you want to see how far this team's fallen.
They haven't won a division and god, and I don't
know how long since like twenty fourteen, every other team
in the division has won it twice. And we're not
talking about like the AFC West that's loaded, We're not
talking about a great division. Like the reason the Titans
(08:48):
have had success, the reason the Jaguars have gone on
a little bit of a run is partly because the
Colts incompetence, Like the reason the Texans are the teams
right now is because the Colts haven't figured this out.
And I mean, it's the Arts in Week one, and
I know it's just one game, but like, for God's sake,
did you win an opener for the first time since
like the Revolutionary War? Like it feels like that just
sets the tone for the next six weeks of the
(09:10):
season where they're just always playing catch up. And I
remember Frank Bright telling me like they are mentally exhausted
from climbing out of the bowles. They take themselves every
single September. So look, everything's changed, right, We're talking about
winning the opener and how important that is in the
week seven in the seventeen week season. But I think
I think that's going to tell you a lot, right,
(09:30):
if you're going to buy into richardson this season, if
he indeed is the guy like start fast, like build
some hope, get the fan base behind you, like this
fan base deserves some consistency and less chaos because it
just feels like the last gosh. I mean, I've been
off the beat two and a half years and it
still feels like the same chaos I covered in the
twenty twenty two season. So we'll see. I know they
(09:52):
want quiet, I know they want consistency. I feel like
they've done a pretty good job of that during camp,
considering they were holding you know, maybe the least exciting
PV competition of full time. But you know, we'll see.
And if Richard saying if the clicks man, there's hope,
Like hope is not hard to find in that kid.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Here's what's funny is that Keifer's on the Andy Morra
Automotive Group hotline.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I always highlight.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I'm not afraid to describe the importance of an early
season game, whether it's Week one or what have you,
the importance of the schedule in particular games. And I
look at this Miami game and consider their situation, and
there are some similarities with them to that of the Colts,
but in their secondary where it is a absolute new
(10:40):
and fresh experience. All right, when you're dealing with a
secondary that's either dinged up or new because of defections?
Which one of these quarterbacks do you think, I'm just
talking about Miami to get off to that good start
in which you describe hasn't happened in absolutely forever. Who
would be the best guy to do that against that
(11:03):
team that would seem to be in week number one,
very vulnerable here in the Miami Dolphins.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, I'm with you. Like for some teams the opener
matters a lot. For like the Chiefs and the Bills
and those teams, like it doesn't matter at all. I
remember saying in the mid two thousands, like talking with
Mike Chapel, like the Colts didn't play a consequential game
until like January, right, because nothing really mattered when you're
that good until you get to the postseason. It's the
complete opposite with what we're talking about. So let's go
(11:33):
back to last year. Anthony Richardson makes maybe the greatest
throw I've ever seen in an NFL game for that
touchdown to Al Pierce. Right, they're playing the Texans, win
a division game, win a huge division game against the
team that's going to ultimately win the division crown on
your home field. And what happens. They have a third
and seven and the defense you're talking about, the secondary
(11:53):
you're talking about, plays that stupid soft off the ball
coverage and gives Nico k that comeback route and the
Texans win the game. Texans didn't play very well. I
was in their locker room afterward. They were a little
surprised at how sloppy they played, and they were still
able to get the victory. So I think it does
say a lot. And how you come out with that
secondary against the Dolphins that first week of September, I
(12:16):
think it's going to tell you a lot because it's
going to be a tough test. Right, They're going to
run all over the field, Like I mean, those receivers
are fast, dude, So you spend a lot of money
on buying them and all the additions you made in
the secondary. It's time to play up on the line
and play more physical. And I know coach Venturi has
talked about that a lot. I've heard a lot of
good things about that group in camp. But the reality
(12:38):
is what you started the question with is there's no
other position group in football that gets dinged up more
than a secondary. Hamstrings can linger for six weeks. It's
just the nature of it. And the fact that they're
signing the guy and Zavian Howard that didn't play football
last year. I mean that tells you what they think
of the current state of their secondary. Brents can't stay
on the field. I mean that's concerning, really concerning, because
(13:00):
the Dolphins will throw it all over the field very quickly,
and you know Daniel's Mike, and Daniel has been scheming
up this game for weeks.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Well, yeah, My thing is too, is that's a team
you have to have a quarterback that you believe in
that's able to really take advantage of a secondary that
would seemingly be described as you just described the Colts.
So that's that's kind of where I wonder if this
decision does kind of hinge on. We got to get
off to a great start, you know, And just I
(13:30):
guess ultimately how interchangeable these decisions at quarterback can be made,
because that's the way that it has felt here in
recent history at that position. Just whatever happens, guy's not ready,
guy needs to concentrate more guys injured. I just wonder
if the best the best place to go for quarterback
in week number one is the guy that can beat
(13:53):
and be successful against a secondary that's very much like
the Colts with the Dolphins that's dinged up beyond belief.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Let me ask you this, John, if they go with
Daniel Jones, do they lose the fan base? Not that
that matters, right because winning solves everything. But I think
it's pretty clear what you have in Daniel Jones. He's
the same quarterback from what I've seen in the preseason
that he was in New York, which is fine average,
not a guy you build around long term. I think
they're still a little bit there with Richardson you can
(14:23):
tap into even now, even with the inconsistencies. But do
you think the fan base would really tune this team
out if they go with Jones and he struggles in
that first game against the Dolphins.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Well, you mentioned the Revolutionary War reference a little bit early.
I'll give you the Civil War reference. There is a
gap between older crimudgety folks. I guess like me and
I believe Richardson is going to start, but most of
the older generation they want to see Jones because they
believe that they know what they have in Richardson. I
(14:57):
think it's the younger generation, and especial that the video dorkery.
Some not all, but the younger generation believe Anthony Richardson
is something on the field that he might be in
a video game, and he's not been close to it.
So I think that there's a gap between the younger
generation that are Colts fans and the older generation that
are Colts fans. And people think that I'm trying to
(15:19):
take sides and call the younger generation dorks, which I
guess I am, but I'm also referencing myself and my
generation as crimogony. I don't give a crap. I don't
care if it's you or I who's a quarterback, as
long as you can get off to a good start
and you can show some signs. Finally, consistency wise, at
that position, but I think that is where it is.
(15:42):
It's funny, I think that the convenient operation would be
going with Richardson because you know, at some point the
inevitable will occur. It is going to be an injury
or it's going to be an effectiveness, and if it's not,
then you know that'll be finally and you'll feel good
(16:02):
about it. But I think that we've all been kind
of accustomed to seeing what this is all about with
him and this point in the situation just like this,
and until we see it differently, I think that's what
we're going to believe, and that's how things are framed
up with Colts fans here regarding that position on those
two players, I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And I think you nailed it on maybe the two
sectors of the fan base who are you rooting for
one side or the other. And I think it's fascinating
that the younger fans are are still very much in
Richardson camp, despite a lot of obvious evidence that says
he's not been consistent enough as a pastor. I mean,
forty seven percent completion percentage is just untenable in this league.
(16:45):
But look, this isn't just about Richardson. This is about
Shane stich it and I don't know where he stands
in Carly Ercy Gordon's mind right now, but this is
a litmus test for him this season. So pick whoever
you want, Shane, pick whichever quarterback you want. But like
you said, John, like it doesn't matter which one it is.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
At the end of the day, you got to win games.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
You've got to win games. And if this team is
intop a tent halfway through the season like they were
last year, benching their starter, not exactly giving a reason,
and then you know, James Boyd and I story sort
of exploding in terms of what all was going on
behind the scenes at the end of the year with
players questioning into leadership, like you can't have that again
and keep this contingent as is. They're just running in circles.
(17:27):
The fan base is set up with it, you're fed
up with it. And I don't blame the fan base
or you one bit.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
That's not the hell of reflection on the operation of
this group either from top to bottom, which certainly has
stood out here most recently, Za key for the athletic
is with us now. I suggest this started when they
potted ways with Peyton Manning. But I think you can
also backpedal to Andrew Luck and deciding to retire two
(17:55):
weeks before the start of the season as to why
they find themselves in this particular purgatory. And I saw
here recently you caught up what's the former NFL quarterback?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, this is exactly what you want to be talking
about today, right.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yeah, And you know we're good, We're good friends.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I love having you on, But frankly, I would rather
jump out this window of the building downtown on the Circle.
Didn't have to hear any more about but Andrew Luck.
But I respect your work, buddy, I do, And I
know you go about it hard and let's hear about it.
And I won't jump out the window.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
No, I totally understand it. Yes, I've gotten a little
bit of flat from cold fans. I'm sure going to
go back and I and I get it. I didn't
want to go back.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Hey, Zach, if you were to come on this show tomorrow,
I'd have him on tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So no, it's the story is not a cult story.
It's a Stanford story. I was told to go out
there and basically figure out how he came back to football,
and you can't figure out how he came back to
football without starting with how he left football. And there's
not a lot of cults in the story. But you know,
the most interesting quote that's being aggregated by every being
(19:00):
the aggregator out there is that he told me he
was going to play footba until he was forty or
forty five. And to that, I said, are you as
being kidding me? I think that was my reaction. But
we don't need to go back to that. It doesn't matter.
It's not going to change anything. The reality is he
still feels guilt for how it ended. And I remember
what you said the next day because it was in
(19:22):
my podcast series that I did about what happened. He said,
he doesn't know anything to anybody, but this decision hoses everybody.
It just does. Those were your words, and boy, six
years later, those those are very correct words. Because it
cost Frank Reich his job. It might cross Chris Ballad
his job. They have not figured out who this quarterback
(19:44):
is and that's the reality. They've shuffled through God knows
how many. I covered all of them until Richardson showed
up in twenty twenty three. But Andrew's really happy. He's
really revived by the challenge that he has at Stanford.
He's the GM there. It's really good to see that
he's happy. He's doing well. But there's no doubt how
it ended, when it ended, and why it ended bothered him.
(20:07):
He never regretted his decision. It was the right thing
he did for him at that time. But that doesn't
mean it didn't hurt like hell, and that doesn't mean
that there's still a little bit of guilt in his
body about the guys he walked away from and when
he did it.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Does he feel guilty about the fan base and the
people around here that supported monetarily with their disposable income,
about the timing of it, especially because listen, we know
this to be true. But Peyton Manning always said, all right,
if you want to quit, you quit in March. If
you're that important as a quarterback to your team, you
know you don't do it when he did it, and
that was always something that was always a point of
contention about this. Is there any guilt about doing it
(20:45):
to people around here that's been hard earned money to
go and have been left with kind of this product
in despair?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Since I think so.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, I think that's very real for him. I don't
think he's got enough credit for kind of taking over
after Peyton. I mean I asked him, like what his
rookie year was like, and he said he was swimming
upstream the entire season. And I'm like, Andrew, you had
one of the best years of any rookie quarterback in history.
Your coaches in the hospital, and you won eleven games
(21:14):
with a bad team. And I'm not dismissing that team,
but that's what Bruce arians called them. And he was
the interim coach. He said, we were crap. They won
eleven games and went to the playoffs because that kid
was that good. And Andrew said, I was barely keeping
my head above water. So it was just a remarkable start.
But I think he carried all of it with him,
and I think that's why he stayed here for four
(21:34):
years after he retired. He loved Indy, he loved the people,
and there was a guilt. I mean, the guy had
five minutes from the team facility, like that's he.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Had guilted taking twenty five million dollars that he didn't earn.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Do you think, oh, that's a good question. That's a
good question. That's a complicated question. But no, we did
not get into that.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Okay, Well, I mean, yeah, I'm just curious.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I didn't want to. The last thing I wanted to
do was is rehash some of that. But I do
respect your riding, buddy, and now I wanted you to
be able to promote that. And I do know it
was more about Stanford and what he's doing now than
it was then. But it's tough to talk about that dynamic,
as you well know around here without bringing stuff like
that up because.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
When they figure out who the quarterback is.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, yes, that's why he's never going to be really,
I don't know ever in the Ring of Honor because
of that.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So to me, yeah, I don't know. That's a good question.
But in my mind, you got to put t Y
Hilton first, and you got to put out a minetarian first.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, in my mind you got to put like anybody
else in first on anybody anyway. Hey, they can find
it at the Athletic right by. Yes, sir, Hey man,
it's good to talk with you too, Stay in touch
and thank you. Your your riding is so good. I
did not jump out the window.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Well, that's the nicest thing I've heard all that time.
Any time, and I promise you, I promise you next
time we will not talk about number twelve.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Well you know what I'm going to be talking about
the next time, and say, this quarterback situation.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
So we'll be ready for that anytime.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
On the Andy Moore Auto Monive Group potline. Let's get
him on here ESPN, ESPN dot com. He's got a
bail in about seventeen minutes. I'm assuming Stephen Holder, we
got breaking news at twenty after the hour. Are you
doing a live hit on ESPN's What is going to
take you away from this incredible program?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
No, just my uber duties.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Wait a minute, you gotta make it more compelling than that.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Come on, Yeah, I mean, but however, the breaking news
always comes at the worst time. So if it's going
to happen, it will happen when I'm in the car
with her.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yes, yes, exactly, I'm my experience.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I'm not trying to bury the lead right here, but
I will jump to that because we got plenty of
time for that in a second. But the hits literally
keep on coming. Hunter Wahler, the season ender with the
Liz franc injury. We know about Blake Freelan breaking the leg.
We saw that on Saturday afternoon. I mean an already
(24:07):
dang secondary. We got to go out and get a
thirty two year old corner that didn't play a year
ago and Xavian Howard. This is a scrambling bunch right now,
player personnel wise, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, I think the frontline players will mostly be available.
I think in the short term. I do think that,
like you know, the Kenny Morris for example.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
And such.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
But the problem is your depth is really taking a
hit right now. And when your depth starts to erode
this early, that's when you get into problems because you know,
you you typically you over the course of a season,
you are going to eat into your depth because injuries
are guaranteed, and you know that's just the game. It
(24:52):
is what it is. But when they're coming this early,
now you're scrambling before you've even hit the starting line.
That's a bad place to be. And frankly, they were.
They were there to a degree with the secondary last
year at this time and that ended up being a
big problem. You know, So we can't I don't think
(25:13):
we can sort of, you know, downplay this and say, well,
you know they have time or what have you. I mean,
it is really early to be eating into your depth
to this degree. So yeah, let's see if they can
get through it.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Is the whole Howard connection relationship because of that that visit,
that workout in Cincinnati and December with lou Anroumo when
he was still employed by the Bengals. Is that how
this all materialized? I know that that obviously, you're just
you know, any port in the proverbial storm here, But
is that how this connection was made?
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Well, the connection between him and and Arumo goes all
the way back to Miami his rookie year. So he
was a defensive backs coach his first two years in Miami,
and there was that workout. Yes, that the Bengals worked him.
You know, they had a bunch of defensive issues last year,
as you probably remember, which led to lou getting fired.
(26:06):
So they worked him out in December. He kind of
liked what he saw, but they worked him out again
here in the last day or so. Is my understanding
the Colts did. They had an in personal workout here.
They were pretty impressed. I mean I didn't see it.
I'm just going by what I was told, and they
thought he was in pretty good shape and pretty good
health at least, you know, it looked like he could
(26:27):
still play. I'm very curious to see him because all
I can tell you is that no one signed this
guy last year, And to me, that's a big red flag.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
You know, why is that?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
And so I don't know. I haven't gotten a good
answer on that, but there were some legal issues that
may have played a role in that. I don't know.
He's not been accused of a crime, but he's got
you know, if you can look it up for yourself,
there's a lot going on there, but it's some it's
who's with women that he dated, and there's some stuff
(27:04):
going on there. Lawsuits have been filed and what have you.
Whether that was a part of it, I don't know,
but I do wonder. Right, here's a guy who a
four time pro bowler, who was an All Pro in
twenty twenty, ten interceptions in twenty twenty, and he was
sitting on the couch all last year. That's that's kind
of stunning, right, even for a guy at that age.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
You know, So.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I want to see, you know, what are what are
the cults seeing that no one else is seeing. You know,
That's what I'm interested in seeing when he gets out
there to practice, presumably tomorrow. But I'll be looking, I'll
be evaluating and see what he looks like.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
But you, uh, yeah, you would think that. I mean,
it's more in this case, you werell the dice here
more than just it being a necessity for camp and
a body here. Right, Maybe if you're just going to
do that, you just bring in, you know, dude from wherever.
(28:00):
But yeah, I mean when you look at you know,
twenty twenty four was not great for him when it
comes to accusations.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Steven, No, that is true.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Look, I think you're right. I mean, they're making a
calculation here that tells me they need him, and it
also suggests perhaps that Jalen Jones injury is going to
be a while. You know. They they did admit, Shane
Stiken did admit that one that hamstring because he and
(28:34):
Juju Brents have hamstring injuries. Shane did admit that that
Jones hamstring was worse and more of more concern than
Juju Brent's. So I have to assume maybe that thing
is a little more serious than maybe we realized. For
them to make this move, because you are correct. If
you're just looking for somebody to get you through the
(28:55):
third pre season game, you know, and take some practice snaps,
well anybody can do that, right, But this was this
was a somewhat aggressive move there. They're potentially going to
pay him a decent amount of money if what's been
reported is true. I'm sure there's a lot of incentives
in there, but I think four or five million is
the max on this, so it's not nothing, you know.
(29:18):
So yeah, I agree with.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You on that.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
This says that this guy could be, you know, someone
they think is going to be here.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
For a while.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Stephen Holder vsp at ESPN dot com. He's on the
Andy Moore Automotive Group potline. We've buried the lead long enough,
but I'm going to give you one more minute of
it too. I talked to Kenny Moore on Thursday, and
he was very concerned that I would violate hippo laws,
so in a very funny way he expressed it. But
(29:46):
you don't seem yourself concerned about this being a long
term into the regular season situation for him.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
I don't believe. So that's not what I've heard. I
don't know if you can, you know, if you can
kind of.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Shed No, he didn't. He just said, but he said,
you can't be violating my hipp or something like that.
And I said, I don't even know what that means.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Medical privacy laws.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I don't really want to get into your medical privacy.
I'm just asking if you're okay, So right.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Right right?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
I think that that one, at least from from what's
been you know, kind of uh suggested to us, Uh,
that won't be a long term injury. So I'm just
gonna kind of count on that being true and and
hopefully that is the case. But they don't seem terribly
worried about that one. Uh, Kenny's you know, Kenny's a veteran.
(30:48):
He'll be he'll be ready to go, you know, with
with a couple of weeks of practice. I presume they
still have three weeks, you know before their opener. So
they're they're feeling pretty good about that. So they're giving
these guys a chance to really heal and get to
the starting line, you know, in one piece.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
He is Stephen Holder with us all right. Finally, now
with the quarterback situation, I'm mentioning this at the outset. Normally,
when you have a competition, the hope is to make
one or the other in this competition raise.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
The bar of their game. I haven't seen that.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So to me, if we haven't seen that, then it
goes back to square one, and square one equates to
five in week one to me, what say you?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
So I would disagree a little bit. I think that
what we have seen from Anthony Richardson is an improvement.
And I don't know what it's going to look like
on Sundays yet, but just in terms of him doing
the things that are improving on things that were problematic
for him, he has done that.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Now that's not gonna.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Get you know, fixing your footwork isn't going to turn
him into you know, Michael Vick Tomorrow or Patrick Mahomes
I guess.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Or something.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
But but it is I think a big step. Because
his accuracy was bad last year, as you know, if
you saw the if you saw the games, those feet
and that footwork will help that accuracy. So that's good.
And we have seen him throw more accurately, you know,
So that's good, and particularly in the short and intermediate stuff,
(32:25):
which was just a mess last year, so that's been
much better. He's not going to be a Kirk Cousin's
seventy percent passer.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
That's not his game.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
He's never going to be that, I don't think. But
if he can be closer to sixty percent, then it
becomes workable. Now to your point, though, I don't think
this was a situation where one guy like significantly outplayed
the other guy. That's that's not what this was. They
were pretty close all the way through. And that's why
(32:56):
I have been emphasizing that. I believe some of the
little things that maybe are not as obvious to us
will will be a big factor in deciding this for
same sike In, and I'm talking about things he mentioned
on Saturday, you know, lining, getting guys lined up, making
the checks at the line of scrimmage, getting the protections right.
(33:18):
You know, those are areas that Daniel Jones is going
to be better at than Anthony Richardson because he got
seven years in the league and played a lot of games.
So I don't want people to to overlook that. That's
an important part of this for Same Siken, agree or disagree.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
What's your tail of the tape right now?
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Well, if I'm making the decision and I'm not. No
one asked me, which I found weird.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
I just did, but.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
No one that no one at uh fifty sixth Street,
then I would I would go with Richardson. And my
my take on this is pretty simple.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I think.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
I think what you lose with Richardson versus Daniel Jones maybe,
you know, the consistency. I think you're also sacrificing some
things though that'll cost you. And what you're sacrificing is
the higher ceiling, the explosiveness and just that moxie that
we saw late in games against like the Patriots and
(34:20):
the Jets. You know, there was some sort of like
you know, stiff upper lip there, you know, if that
makes any sense, And I'm saying, you know, he showed something,
then I think moxye is the right word, right. He
showed the ability to stand tall at the end of
the game and make plays, winning plays, you know. And
(34:41):
Daniel Jones, I think what you're doing there is Daniel
Jones does a little more along for the ride, and
Daniel Jones is just at the controls and if everything
goes well, you can win because your quarterback probably won't
like screw it up, but if you're going to win
you a game. I feel less strongly about that with
Daniel Jones. So I think the likely outcome is that
(35:04):
you end up in largely the same place no matter
which quarterback you play. So play the guy with the upside,
play the young guy, the guy you haven't seen for
six years, be the same guy.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
That's what I did, And you also know that relatively
quickly there's going to be a reason not to play
him anymore. And then Jones is going to be thrust
into that category anyway.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Now, well, I mean that's absolutely does that play.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Does that at all play a role in the thought
process between you know, ers Gordon Mallard.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
And Steichen in this final decision category?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I mean it would for me. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
You would think, right, You would think I don't know
where they stand, but you would think, man, here's why
I would say yes, Because if he either screws it up,
if he becomes the guy we saw in Houston last year,
if he turns into that guy all of a sudden
and he's overwhelmed again, will you set him down and
you tell him thanks? You know, we appreciate the effort
(36:04):
we're playing Daniel Jones, you shake hands and you walk away.
If he gets hurt, which he certainly has done. It
is what it is.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Right, at least you.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Have had another look and really just kind of made
sure of what you have there. If he does at
the start this year, if you go with Daniel Jones,
let's say Daniel Jones plays wire to wire. I have
no idea, but let's let's play this out right. If
Daniel Jones plays wire to wire, then what are we
doing at the end of the season. What is your
(36:35):
quarterback future is? Who is Anthony Richardson? I don't I
mean none of that. None of the questions have been answered, right,
So at least give yourself an opportunity to answer the question,
is what I would say. But again they didn't ask me.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Steven Holder of ESPN and ESPN dot COM's with us,
I know you got a run in just a second.
So let's just say, decision comes out. Let me you
get a story later off tonight, decision comes out med
official coming up tomorrow. How does that make Cincinnati look
on Saturday? How are they going to approach that? Personnel wise?
Speaker 4 (37:08):
So if I think the way to play Cincinnati on Saturday.
Is nobody plays just I mean, it needs to be, frankly,
to be blunt, it needs to be the future Amazon
Warehouse employees playing in that game. Okay, they have too
many injuries, they're too beat up, and I think frankly,
(37:29):
they don't have a lot of roster decisions to make here. Okay,
they know their team for the most part. The guys
they got to make decisions about are frankly, the guys
who probably need to play in that game anyway, the
guys at the bottom of the roster. So player, rookies,
play your your young guys, play, you know, the long shots.
Let them get some film. That's what I do. I
(37:50):
don't think there's any reason to put these guys out there.
I mean, they played a lot of starters on Saturday
this past Saturday. I think that was a good enough look.
I would move on with my life and and get
onto week one.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
That's what I do.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Any surprise categories of recognizable names that may not make
this roster that we would see is cut here?
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Anybody good question?
Speaker 4 (38:15):
I don't. I don't think so. I think most of
the spots are spoken for. Yeah, I mean, I I
don't think there's going to be anything terribly shocking. Frankly,
I really don't and and and frankly, the injuries have
maybe ensured that that. You know, maybe some guys who
are on the bubble, they probably make it because they
(38:37):
need to death in certain places, you know what I mean.
So so I don't think you're gonna have a lot
of shockers. This will be I think one of the
easier cuts they've made. And uh, they'll they'll be all right.
But the question is going to be health and and
certainly under center as well.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
All right.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Most important game of the season is week number one.
By the way, you've heard it here first. I think
I say that every year, even more mad find this
year though.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Yeah, there's something to be said for getting off to
a good start. If you are every single season climbing
out of a hole either oh and one or oh
to two, it's not good for your psyche. It's not
good for just the overall morale of your team. I
don't think it's the end all, be all, per se,
but there that has to be exhausting to continually be
(39:24):
climbing out of a hole after Week one, I mean,
for what twelve straight years or something. I mean that
enough is enough, right, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
You got it all right, Go pick up and we'll
hope no breaking news happens while you're doing that. I
was hoping for something a little bit more profound, but
that's understandable. Thanks, buddy, I appreciate Hey. Great sitting you
on Saturday too. Yep, so the Steven Holder ESPN ESPN
dot com
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