May 21, 2020 • 26 mins
Celebrate the journey of parenting by focusing on the good stuff. Embrace your child’s unique personality and his or her evolution as a person.
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Episode Transcript
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Mackenzie Johnson (00:09):
Hey, welcome to The Science of Parenting
where we connect you withresearch-based information that
fits your family.
We'll talk about the realitiesof being a parent and how
research can help guide ourparenting decisions.
I'm Mackenzie Johnson, parent oftwo littles with their own
quirks, and I'm a parentingeducator.
Lori Hayungs (00:26):
And I'm Lori Hayungs and I am the parent of
three all in different lifestages, one's launched, one's in
college and one is in highschool, and I'm also a parenting
educator.
And today we are going to talkabout the joys and challenges in
the role of parenting.
This whole first season we'vebeen talking about parenting
(00:47):
foundations.
We've covered a lot of differentthings, but today we're kind of
wrapping up with, you know,there are a lot of joys among
those challenges of parenting.
What do you think about that?
Mackenzie Johnson (00:57):
Yeah, this is our last recorded episode, or
prerecorded, I guess I shouldsay, cause next week we'll be
live.
You can catch this live.
So yeah, we're kind of wrappingit all up and just deal with
understanding the joys and thechallenges that we have going
on.
Lori Hayungs (01:11):
We are.
It's been exciting.
Our first season is coming to aclose and we are shocked, maybe
slightly shocked, that we arealready here.
We really did it.
We're doing it.
And now we're already thinkingabout another season.
So let's dive right into this.
I have some research here justlike I always do.
(01:33):
And so our first research tidbitis coming today from Baumrind
Thompson and what they say isthat a parent's basic role is to
provide responsible caregivingand that society gives parents
the primary authority in meetingchildren's needs because we know
(01:53):
this, children are assumed orparents are assumed to have
their children's best interestsat heart.
We do, we do.
Mackenzie Johnson (02:01):
We do and I think that it's kinda nice to
look at that definition ofparenting by Baumrind and
Thompson because I mean, I don'talways think of it like a
definition, you know, you justdo it.
You have kids and then youparent, you just do.
But slowing down, I w as like,yeah, s ociety does really
entrust us.
I remember one of my classes inundergrad t alked about families
(02:26):
as the building blocks ofsociety.
And I was like, yeah, I guesswe're socializing our kids,
we're teaching them, we'reeducating them.
We're teaching them skills toget along with people and to
grow up in the real world andhave those skills a nd like,
yeah, I guess w e a re thebuilding block of society,
Lori Hayungs (02:43):
We are doing all those things as parents.
Mackenzie Johnson (02:45):
We talked about that parents are the
experts on their kids.
You know, that's something wereally believe at The Science of
Parenting and so does society,right?
We know our kids best.
Lori Hayungs (03:01):
Well, and so then the largest study of joys and
problems in child rearing foundthat by and large parents get
what they hope for out ofparenting.
And a study by Arthur Jersildand his colleagues found that
parents reported more than twiceas many joys as problems in
child rearing, twice as manyjoys as problems.
Mackenzie Johnson (03:22):
Twice as many.
Well that's good news, overall?
We're reporting that there'smore joy or twice as many joys
as challenges.
That's good news.
Lori Hayungs (03:34):
It is good news.
And sometimes in the heat of theproblems and the challenges, you
know, when we look at thelargest study of joys and
problems, whew.
Sometimes it doesn't feel thatway, but if we can take a step
back and really take in thewhole overall picture of those
challenges and joys and think,okay, if I really factually sat
(03:55):
down and did tally marks foreach.
Yeah.
Wow.
There's a whole lot of joys.
Mackenzie Johnson (04:01):
Yeah.
There's a lot of good stuff inthere, but I do think you're
making a great point that itdoesn't always feel like it.
You know, we talked a lotthroughout season 1 about
meltdowns.
We talked about when we lose itand how we repair and reconnect
with our kids.
You know, we've covered a lot ofdifferent stuff and parenting
styles because it's parentingfoundations.
(04:23):
Our first season is focused alittle more on some of that
tough stuff and how we navigateit, but that there's a lot of
joy but it doesn't always feellike it.
Lori Hayungs (04:33):
So this study also covered what some common
problems were.
And so some common problems inthe study and remembering again
that there were twice as manyjoys as problems, but some of
the problems included thingslike a child's difficult
personality traits or difficultygetting cooperation in routines.
(04:54):
Hmm.
That sounds like somethingMackenzie talked about, getting
up in the mornings.
That was the second problemidentified, difficulties getting
cooperation in routines and thenconcerns about sibling conflicts
was another problem identifiedin the study.
And then this fourth one, thisone kind of hit me right in the
gut, disappointments inourselves as parents.
(05:17):
Now.
O kay.
So let's just backtrack.
Right?
So these were f our commonproblems, but there w ere still
twice as many joys.
But that fourth one,disappointment in ourselves as a
parent, that's hard.
Mackenzie Johnson (05:31):
Kinda reminds me of we did that last episode
on judgment.
Are we kind to ourselves and dowe believe in ourselves?
So, there's four here outlinedin this study, right?
Which of these are most relevantfor you as challenges you
experienced in your currentstage of parenting?
Is there one that kind of ringsout?
Lori Hayungs (05:51):
So my children are older, right?
And so I haven't had a lot ofopportunity to reflect over the
years.
So when it comes to difficultpersonality traits, well, you
know, I love diving intotemperament.
So you know, maybe I don't thinkthat one would be as much of a
(06:14):
problem for me.
Difficulty in cooperation,getting routines?
Okay.
So I admitted to you all acouple of weeks ago that I'm not
good with routines anyway.
So, concerns about siblingconflicts?
You know, as far as my girlsgetting along and not getting
along, they did pretty well.
You know, they had theirmoments.
So that fourth one, yup.
(06:35):
That's it.
I've had 23 years to think aboutthings I didn't do right as a
parent.
And so gosh, you know, Iappreciated conversations last
week about judgment and how wehave to learn how to be kind to
ourself and maybe because I canthink of a lot of things with
each of my three children.
(06:56):
Gosh, I wish I hadn't handled itthis that way.
Gosh, I wonder if I'd handledthis differently if this
wouldn't have been that hard forthem.
So yeah.
How about you?
Mackenzie Johnson (07:08):
Yeah, so my kids are littles, right?
I've got littles at home.
Right now I have a three yearold and an infant and so I would
say the two that kind ofimmediately came to mind were
one of the disappointments Imight feel right now.
That's a challenge for me isthose times when I do feel like
I need a break or that I need toget away.
(07:31):
I do sometimes feel thatdisappointment.
Like, come on, you should beloving this more.
You should be enjoying thismore.
And so I sometimes have thatguilt and disappointment in
myself of, you know, this isyour second one.
You already know they're onlylittle for so long.
Why aren't you soaking up thisstage more?
So some of that is kinda toughfor me.
(07:51):
And then even though I have someof the head knowledge of
temperament and personality andthings like that, sometimes
those strong traits of thatstrong personality trait of my
daughter.
She's a kid who she knows whatshe wants and she's got a plan
for it.
So sometimes that's tough for meto navigate.
(08:13):
Okay, yes, you know what youwant.
Yup.
You do, you know what you want.
And that plays out in routinesand other things.
Lori Hayungs (08:21):
You have a plan.
Yes, you do.
And so the other thing I thinkabout is that piece that's
unique for both of us is that wedo have these backgrounds in
children and families.
And so I oftentimes wonder, I'veput that guilt on myself and I
think, I know how important thisis because it's my educational
(08:44):
background.
Why am I not like you said,soaking this up and enjoying it?
Why?
And so we just have to be kindto ourself and think we're
parents.
We are normal parents just likeeveryone else.
And we just have these things inour toolbox.
But sometimes we don't pull themout.
Yeah.
Right.
Mackenzie Johnson (09:04):
I don't get that right every time.
Lori Hayungs (09:08):
Do you want to move on to joys?
I do.
Okay.
So in this study, they alsotalked about some common joys.
And again, remember this studysaid there's twice as many joys
as challenges.
So here are a couple of joysthat they listed.
The children's special qualitiesas a person.
(09:30):
They listed the joy of parentingwith companionship and affection
with children, that they hadpleasure in watching the child
grow and in general, the role ofparenting.
And then a fourth one had to dowith if there was more than one
child and so that was thesatisfaction in seeing sibling
closeness.
So which of those resonate withyou?
Mackenzie Johnson (09:54):
I think I probably have to go with two
again.
So I said, my kids are youngenough, there's really not
sibling conflict yet.
Once my littlest is on the movea little more and they can start
getting each other's stuff, thatmight change.
But right now it's just sweet.
In the morning, my daughter alot of times gets to my son's
room before I do, before we do,when he wakes up.
She loves to go in there and seehim and talk to him and get toys
(10:18):
out and books out.
And so that's a really sweet, Ifind.
I really, really love that.
And right now I hear him on themonitor, you know, or talking to
him.
And so I love that.
And then even though mydaughter's strong, she knows
what she wants from the worldand things like that, sometimes
(10:39):
that's challenging for me, oneof her other traits is that I
just love watching her tick.
She's an observer so even theroute we take to her preschool.
If I take a different route forsome reason, well mom, the blue
house is on the wrong side issomething she said to me before
or when she's talking aboutsomething she's watched or a
(10:59):
place we went, she tells suchspecific details that I'm like,
I know what you're talking aboutbecause you have this very, very
specific thing.
And so I find so much joy inwatching her tick and observing
that trait in her and the waythat she thinks.
So I'm having a lot of fun withthat in the stage she's in right
now.
What about you?
What are the joys?
Lori Hayungs (11:19):
Gosh, that just warmed me up.
Yeah.
My daughters when they wereyoung like that.
So one of the things that Isometimes talk about with
parents is those challengingtraits.
So when we have younger childrenwho had these really strong
personalities that arepersistent and they're tenacious
(11:40):
and they're observers and theyget it and they see it, and then
they use that against us in ourparenting.
But I love finding a way to flipthat and say, so right now as a
toddler, these things aredifficult for you because they
are persistent.
They are tenacious.
They are not going to let go.
(12:01):
But as they grow those skills asa school ager, as a young adult,
wow.
You know, those can be such hugeassets and such great qualities.
And so I think that sometimeswhen we look at the joys of
parenting, those same thingsthat are difficult for us can
(12:24):
become joys when the child movesto a different stage.
And it's all about that braindevelopment again, right back
into brain development.
But I think that's when itbecomes really important for us
to recognize that even in thestruggle, those qualities may
certainly soon become an asset.
And so squashing those andreally trying to get rid of
(12:47):
those qualities in our child ismaybe not the best interest, but
somehow just finding a way towalk alongside them.
And those challenging traits, Iguess would be the way they put
it, but I think that definitelyis those were joys.
So watching those things that Iknew in my heart that those
(13:10):
personality traits were going tobecome joys.
And I've totally said that aboutmy middle daughter.
You know, I can appreciate that.
She has the ability to letthings just roll off her back
and I need to soak that up fromher.
Mackenzie Johnson (13:24):
Yeah.
Well you kind of remind me, Italk about what some of our
struggles were.
I talked about it in our bonusepisode and then in the blog
that went along with thatepisode.
We didn't get a chance to coverit, you know, since that was
kind of a mini episode.
But in the blog that I wrotewith that I talk about when I
was struggling with my daughter,bedtime and nap time was just
real hard for a while there.
And I had texted you about itand ironically since you talk
(13:46):
about how you don't loveroutines, but you're like,
harness that skill, right?
She knows what she wants and shehas a plan and so we kind of use
that to get her input to developwhatever that stronger routine
was going to be and create alittle visual that went with
that so she could walk throughit.
Right?
She knew what she wanted and shewanted to walk through those
(14:06):
steps because she's a kid with aplan.
And so it was kind of harnessingthat.
I mean, yeah, sometimes it's achallenge, but we kind of turned
it into joy that she had thisnew independence that she was
working on.
Definitely it's a mix of thechallenge and the joy for sure.
Yes.
Yes.
Lori Hayungs (14:24):
Have you ever seen that meme where the little girl
has got her fist up in the airand it says, I'm not bossy, I'm
a leader.
Mackenzie Johnson (14:36):
These are leadership skills.
Lori Hayungs (14:40):
Leadership skills.
I think that as parents wewonder and we worry and we
overthink and this study showsus that twice as many joys as
problems actually kind of comesout in the wash in the end.
Not to minimize by any means thething that we're experiencing
and the challenges, you know,especially in difficult times.
(15:04):
But there are a lot of thingsthat we are going to experience,
and the best thing I think wecan do is exactly what you're
doing, listening to thispodcast.
You're filling your toolbox.
Yeah.
Filling your toolbox.
Mackenzie Johnson (15:17):
And I think you make a great point.
So kind of moving into the end,we'd like to end or kind of
start to wrap our show andsummarize by talking about your
reality.
Okay, we told you the research,we've shared a little bit of
ours.
As a listener, as you thinkabout your own reality, one of
the skills we've talked about isreframing, you know,
understanding those things thatmight be challenges and that are
(15:38):
joys, but reframing them interms of the long-term or the
benefits or turning thatchallenge into a joy or whatever
that might be.
And so reframing is one skillthat you have, but I think one
of the things as we talked aboutplanning this episode on joys
and challenges, one of thethings that I was like, we can't
skip.
We cannot skip that if it's notfeeling like joy, and especially
(15:59):
right now in the midst of, youknow, we're still kind of
figuring out this COVID-19 andwhat it means.
And all of us have differentresources and realities around
that.
If it doesn't feel like joyright now, it's okay to get
help.
And it's okay to be honest withyourself.
And there's actually been timesin my parenting when I was
pregnant with my second, I washaving a really hard time and I
(16:22):
had to be honest with myself,I'm not finding joy in things
that I used to do or I'm notfeeling the way that I normally
do about things.
And I had to be really honestwith myself and my co-parent
about that.
So if you are hearing thisepisode and thinking, well yeah,
sure, there's joy sometimes, butI don't know when it is, we just
want to let you know, one, it'sall right to say that you feel
that way and to be honest withyourself about it and with
(16:45):
others and that there'sresources.
So, specifically from IowaState, there's a lot of
resources, a lot of placesaround the state.
One that's available, 24/7that's totally free for you to
call is a hotline called IowaConcern.
Like I said, totally free,totally confidential.
There's someone always there toanswer, but if the stress feels
(17:06):
overwhelming and you're notreally sure that you're finding
joy anymore and you needsomebody to talk with about that
and maybe you just need someonewho's not someone you know, Iowa
Concern is there for you.
And then if you have questionsabout parenting and child
development and stuff like that,we also have something called
AnswerLine.
And so both of those resourcesare free to call.
Iowa Concern, I actually havethe number written down.
Here it is (17:29):
800-447-1985.
So that's the Iowa Concernhotline or you can of course,
type that into a search engine,find the Iowa Concern hotline or
AnswerLine.
So yeah, lots of joys, lots ofchallenges and it's all right if
you need a little helpnavigating that.
Lori Hayungs (17:45):
So totally a great resource.
Yeah, totally great resources.
And I appreciate that you saidsometimes you just need to talk
to someone you don't know.
Yeah, sometimes you just need toreach out and have someone who
doesn't know you, doesn't knowyour situation listen.
Thank you.
So, you know, in the midst ofall this, and we think about
(18:05):
this, do we want to bring inKenzie and have our Stop.
Breath.
Talk.
moment?
Season one, this is your lastopportunity to stump us.
Mackenzie DeJong (18:21):
So, I'm Mackenzie DeJong.
I know the last couple of timesI've realized that I haven't
introduced myself, but again,I'm Mackenzie DeJong,, podcast
producer and host of the Stop.
Breathe.
Talk.
section of the podcast.
Stop.
Breathe.
Talk.
Is a tool that we frequently usethroughout The Science of
Parenting, but it's also thislittle section that reminds us
(18:44):
to stop for a minute, breatheand then talk about something.
So today's question, topic, itemof discussion is something that
goes right along with theconversation.
So we're talking about theconcerns and the joys, right?
And this is something that I'veheard a lot of families do.
(19:07):
They've called it a lot ofdifferent things.
but it's another tool to put inyour toolbox.
So it's the conversation ofsitting down either every day,
every week, you know,occasionally with your family
members and talking about theconcerns and joys you've had in
the week.
There's lots of things thatpeople have called t hem, you
know, the salt and the sugar,the highs and the lows, good
week bad week, positives a ndnegatives.
(19:30):
So coming up with one thing fromyour week or your day.
Again, this can be a reallygreat tool for parents to either
reflect on their current stateof parenting to say, okay, so
these are the current concerns Ihave.
Being honest about that and thenfinding those joys or it's a
really great tool for familiesat m eal t ime.
(19:51):
J ust sit down and talk throughand teach kids that it's okay to
talk about those scary things,those lows.
And it's okay to talk about thegood things happening.
So my challenge for you today isnot only to share that tool, but
also come up and share with us,a high and a low or a s alt and
a sugar from your parentingjourney throughout the last
(20:14):
week, month, wherever you need to stretch.
But something that comes to mindfor you, maybe a low in
parenting and a high inparenting.
Mackenzie Johnson (20:21):
Yeah.
Can I tell you my reality?
So I got one, I have one.
My go-to regularly to helpinclude, since my kids are
little, we have to be prettyintentional about including them
in the conversation.
You know, it's easy to just talkabout the logistics of our days.
And so, I usually ask aboutsomething that was fun in the
(20:43):
day and something that waschallenging.
There you go.
That's kind of how we phrase itin our house and then something
else that I've kind of adopted.
I don't know where I got itfrom.
It was kind of a spur of themoment thing that my co-parent
and I did one time was we wrotedown all the things that we
loved about our daughter at thatstage that she was in.
(21:04):
I can't say we do this everyyear on her birthday or we do
this every...
It's just happened sometimesactually.
Sometimes it's like when we goon a trip without the kids or
we're out of town for a weekendor something.
That's when I stop and thinkabout it.
But just writing down like, youknow, I love that right now when
she says this word, it soundslike this, or you know that, my
(21:24):
son is at a stage where hescoots on his bottom.
He hops on his butt to get fromA to B.
Just remembering those littlemoments brings some joy.
So that's something little thatwe kind of do.
Lori Hayungs (21:36):
That's great.
That's great.
So I only have one left inschool that I pick up and drop
off regularly.
And so the fun thing for me todo is oftentimes there are
additional children that I'mpicking up or dropping off along
with her.
And so I'll just in the car,open up that conversation.
(21:57):
So what was your favorite thingthat happened today?
And they were taken aback thefirst couple of times I did it
because they thought that I wasjust addressing my daughter and
I was like, no, you're in mycar.
I want to know what was yourfavorite part of the day?
And then we talk about, okay,what was the least favorite part
of the day?
And so that happens just kind ofspontaneously whenever so now if
(22:24):
they show up at my house with mydaughter, we just are able to
say, Hey, what was your favoritething that happened?
What was your favorite thing onvacation?
Or that kind of thing.
So that's kind of a tool that weuse.
And then one thing that I did dowas I had a couple of really big
challenging things that happenedin their lives, whether it was
(22:46):
them all three together or justone of them in particular.
I actually wrote a letter, youknow, kind of explaining, I know
you can't understand this rightnow, but I want you to know that
these are the processes andthoughts I went to to get to
this decision.
And so I have that tucked awayin their box, you know, or in
this case of more recently, Iactually sent it to them, all
(23:10):
three of them.
And I thought, you know, a wayto be able to share it so that
they have it to reflect back on,to be able to say, wow, that was
challenging.
But look at where we're at nowand the joys that we have now.
Mackenzie Johnson (23:22):
Yeah, look at you.
I love that.
Mackenzie DeJong (23:26):
So yeah, different ways to express those
concerns and joys.
Sometimes it's large scale likethat.
And sometimes it can be, youknow, day to day, something that
irritated us during the day orsomething.
Thank you for those awesomeexamples.
Lori Hayungs (23:44):
We survived Stop.
Breath.
Talk.
Mackenzie Johnson (23:48):
We never know what McKenzie is going to ask us
when she comes on.
Mackenzie DeJong (23:54):
Sometimes.
I don't know what I'm going toask when I come on.
Lori Hayungs (23:57):
And believe me, we've tried often as we talk
through our episodes, we mightprobe her for, What do you think
she's going to ask about?
Mackenzie DeJong (24:11):
Because sometimes I don't even know, but
yeah.
All right, well see you all nextseason.
Mackenzie Johnson (24:15):
Thanks.
Thanks kids.
Oh yeah.
So I mean we covered it, right?
Joys and challenges.
There's a mix and you know, weunderstand that our role in
parenting is important.
Society's trusting us to haveour kids' best interests at
heart, and we're kind of thosebuilding blocks of society.
And we know there's going to bea mix of joy and challenges
(24:38):
along the way in that.
But hopefully, right?
If the research holds true foreach of our realities, that
there's more joy thanchallenges.
There's more joy, there's morejoy.
Lori Hayungs (24:47):
So that's our parenting foundations season
one.
Now next week be sure to comeback to Facebook because that's
when we get to interact with youlive.
We look forward to that timebecause we really enjoy the
comment section where people aregetting to ask their quick
questions.
You know, maybe from a previousepisode that they didn't get to
(25:09):
ask.
because we were recorded.
The other thing is that you canalways ask us questions in our
blog, we have opportunities foryou to ask us questions there
with our email there as well.
So thanks for joining us todayon The Science of Parenting
podcast and remember, subscribeto our weekly audio podcasts.
You can find us on Apple,Spotify or your favorite podcast
(25:32):
app and watch us next week.
Once a month we come to you liveand we take your comments and
questions.
Mackenzie Johnson (25:38):
Yeah, so come along with us as we tackle the
ins and outs, the ups and downs,and the research in reality all
around The Science of Parenting.
Thanks.
Anthony Santiago (25:53):
The Science of Parenting is a research-based
education program posted by LoriHayungs and Mackenzie Johnson,
produced by McKenzie DeJong withresearch and writing by Barbara
Dunn Swanson.
Send in questions and commentsto parenting@iastate.edu and
connect with us on Facebook andTwitter.
(26:15):
This program is brought to youby Iowa State University
Extension and Outreach.
This institution is an equalopportunity provider.
For the full non-discriminationstatement or accommodation
inquiries go to www.extension.
iastate.edu/diversity/ ext.
Hey, welcome to The Science of Parenting
where we connect you withresearch-based information that
fits your family.
We'll talk about the realitiesof being a parent and how
research can help guide ourparenting decisions.
I'm Mackenzie Johnson, parent oftwo littles with their own
quirks, and I'm a parentingeducator.
Lori Hayungs (00:26):
And I'm Lori Hayungs and I am the parent of
three all in different lifestages, one's launched, one's in
college and one is in highschool, and I'm also a parenting
educator.
And today we are going to talkabout the joys and challenges in
the role of parenting.
This whole first season we'vebeen talking about parenting
(00:47):
foundations.
We've covered a lot of differentthings, but today we're kind of
wrapping up with, you know,there are a lot of joys among
those challenges of parenting.
What do you think about that?
Mackenzie Johnson (00:57):
Yeah, this is our last recorded episode, or
prerecorded, I guess I shouldsay, cause next week we'll be
live.
You can catch this live.
So yeah, we're kind of wrappingit all up and just deal with
understanding the joys and thechallenges that we have going
on.
Lori Hayungs (01:11):
We are.
It's been exciting.
Our first season is coming to aclose and we are shocked, maybe
slightly shocked, that we arealready here.
We really did it.
We're doing it.
And now we're already thinkingabout another season.
So let's dive right into this.
I have some research here justlike I always do.
(01:33):
And so our first research tidbitis coming today from Baumrind
Thompson and what they say isthat a parent's basic role is to
provide responsible caregivingand that society gives parents
the primary authority in meetingchildren's needs because we know
(01:53):
this, children are assumed orparents are assumed to have
their children's best interestsat heart.
We do, we do.
Mackenzie Johnson (02:01):
We do and I think that it's kinda nice to
look at that definition ofparenting by Baumrind and
Thompson because I mean, I don'talways think of it like a
definition, you know, you justdo it.
You have kids and then youparent, you just do.
But slowing down, I w as like,yeah, s ociety does really
entrust us.
I remember one of my classes inundergrad t alked about families
(02:26):
as the building blocks ofsociety.
And I was like, yeah, I guesswe're socializing our kids,
we're teaching them, we'reeducating them.
We're teaching them skills toget along with people and to
grow up in the real world andhave those skills a nd like,
yeah, I guess w e a re thebuilding block of society,
Lori Hayungs (02:43):
We are doing all those things as parents.
Mackenzie Johnson (02:45):
We talked about that parents are the
experts on their kids.
You know, that's something wereally believe at The Science of
Parenting and so does society,right?
We know our kids best.
Lori Hayungs (03:01):
Well, and so then the largest study of joys and
problems in child rearing foundthat by and large parents get
what they hope for out ofparenting.
And a study by Arthur Jersildand his colleagues found that
parents reported more than twiceas many joys as problems in
child rearing, twice as manyjoys as problems.
Mackenzie Johnson (03:22):
Twice as many.
Well that's good news, overall?
We're reporting that there'smore joy or twice as many joys
as challenges.
That's good news.
Lori Hayungs (03:34):
It is good news.
And sometimes in the heat of theproblems and the challenges, you
know, when we look at thelargest study of joys and
problems, whew.
Sometimes it doesn't feel thatway, but if we can take a step
back and really take in thewhole overall picture of those
challenges and joys and think,okay, if I really factually sat
(03:55):
down and did tally marks foreach.
Yeah.
Wow.
There's a whole lot of joys.
Mackenzie Johnson (04:01):
Yeah.
There's a lot of good stuff inthere, but I do think you're
making a great point that itdoesn't always feel like it.
You know, we talked a lotthroughout season 1 about
meltdowns.
We talked about when we lose itand how we repair and reconnect
with our kids.
You know, we've covered a lot ofdifferent stuff and parenting
styles because it's parentingfoundations.
(04:23):
Our first season is focused alittle more on some of that
tough stuff and how we navigateit, but that there's a lot of
joy but it doesn't always feellike it.
Lori Hayungs (04:33):
So this study also covered what some common
problems were.
And so some common problems inthe study and remembering again
that there were twice as manyjoys as problems, but some of
the problems included thingslike a child's difficult
personality traits or difficultygetting cooperation in routines.
(04:54):
Hmm.
That sounds like somethingMackenzie talked about, getting
up in the mornings.
That was the second problemidentified, difficulties getting
cooperation in routines and thenconcerns about sibling conflicts
was another problem identifiedin the study.
And then this fourth one, thisone kind of hit me right in the
gut, disappointments inourselves as parents.
(05:17):
Now.
O kay.
So let's just backtrack.
Right?
So these were f our commonproblems, but there w ere still
twice as many joys.
But that fourth one,disappointment in ourselves as a
parent, that's hard.
Mackenzie Johnson (05:31):
Kinda reminds me of we did that last episode
on judgment.
Are we kind to ourselves and dowe believe in ourselves?
So, there's four here outlinedin this study, right?
Which of these are most relevantfor you as challenges you
experienced in your currentstage of parenting?
Is there one that kind of ringsout?
Lori Hayungs (05:51):
So my children are older, right?
And so I haven't had a lot ofopportunity to reflect over the
years.
So when it comes to difficultpersonality traits, well, you
know, I love diving intotemperament.
So you know, maybe I don't thinkthat one would be as much of a
(06:14):
problem for me.
Difficulty in cooperation,getting routines?
Okay.
So I admitted to you all acouple of weeks ago that I'm not
good with routines anyway.
So, concerns about siblingconflicts?
You know, as far as my girlsgetting along and not getting
along, they did pretty well.
You know, they had theirmoments.
So that fourth one, yup.
(06:35):
That's it.
I've had 23 years to think aboutthings I didn't do right as a
parent.
And so gosh, you know, Iappreciated conversations last
week about judgment and how wehave to learn how to be kind to
ourself and maybe because I canthink of a lot of things with
each of my three children.
(06:56):
Gosh, I wish I hadn't handled itthis that way.
Gosh, I wonder if I'd handledthis differently if this
wouldn't have been that hard forthem.
So yeah.
How about you?
Mackenzie Johnson (07:08):
Yeah, so my kids are littles, right?
I've got littles at home.
Right now I have a three yearold and an infant and so I would
say the two that kind ofimmediately came to mind were
one of the disappointments Imight feel right now.
That's a challenge for me isthose times when I do feel like
I need a break or that I need toget away.
(07:31):
I do sometimes feel thatdisappointment.
Like, come on, you should beloving this more.
You should be enjoying thismore.
And so I sometimes have thatguilt and disappointment in
myself of, you know, this isyour second one.
You already know they're onlylittle for so long.
Why aren't you soaking up thisstage more?
So some of that is kinda toughfor me.
(07:51):
And then even though I have someof the head knowledge of
temperament and personality andthings like that, sometimes
those strong traits of thatstrong personality trait of my
daughter.
She's a kid who she knows whatshe wants and she's got a plan
for it.
So sometimes that's tough for meto navigate.
(08:13):
Okay, yes, you know what youwant.
Yup.
You do, you know what you want.
And that plays out in routinesand other things.
Lori Hayungs (08:21):
You have a plan.
Yes, you do.
And so the other thing I thinkabout is that piece that's
unique for both of us is that wedo have these backgrounds in
children and families.
And so I oftentimes wonder, I'veput that guilt on myself and I
think, I know how important thisis because it's my educational
(08:44):
background.
Why am I not like you said,soaking this up and enjoying it?
Why?
And so we just have to be kindto ourself and think we're
parents.
We are normal parents just likeeveryone else.
And we just have these things inour toolbox.
But sometimes we don't pull themout.
Yeah.
Right.
Mackenzie Johnson (09:04):
I don't get that right every time.
Lori Hayungs (09:08):
Do you want to move on to joys?
I do.
Okay.
So in this study, they alsotalked about some common joys.
And again, remember this studysaid there's twice as many joys
as challenges.
So here are a couple of joysthat they listed.
The children's special qualitiesas a person.
(09:30):
They listed the joy of parentingwith companionship and affection
with children, that they hadpleasure in watching the child
grow and in general, the role ofparenting.
And then a fourth one had to dowith if there was more than one
child and so that was thesatisfaction in seeing sibling
closeness.
So which of those resonate withyou?
Mackenzie Johnson (09:54):
I think I probably have to go with two
again.
So I said, my kids are youngenough, there's really not
sibling conflict yet.
Once my littlest is on the movea little more and they can start
getting each other's stuff, thatmight change.
But right now it's just sweet.
In the morning, my daughter alot of times gets to my son's
room before I do, before we do,when he wakes up.
She loves to go in there and seehim and talk to him and get toys
(10:18):
out and books out.
And so that's a really sweet, Ifind.
I really, really love that.
And right now I hear him on themonitor, you know, or talking to
him.
And so I love that.
And then even though mydaughter's strong, she knows
what she wants from the worldand things like that, sometimes
(10:39):
that's challenging for me, oneof her other traits is that I
just love watching her tick.
She's an observer so even theroute we take to her preschool.
If I take a different route forsome reason, well mom, the blue
house is on the wrong side issomething she said to me before
or when she's talking aboutsomething she's watched or a
(10:59):
place we went, she tells suchspecific details that I'm like,
I know what you're talking aboutbecause you have this very, very
specific thing.
And so I find so much joy inwatching her tick and observing
that trait in her and the waythat she thinks.
So I'm having a lot of fun withthat in the stage she's in right
now.
What about you?
What are the joys?
Lori Hayungs (11:19):
Gosh, that just warmed me up.
Yeah.
My daughters when they wereyoung like that.
So one of the things that Isometimes talk about with
parents is those challengingtraits.
So when we have younger childrenwho had these really strong
personalities that arepersistent and they're tenacious
(11:40):
and they're observers and theyget it and they see it, and then
they use that against us in ourparenting.
But I love finding a way to flipthat and say, so right now as a
toddler, these things aredifficult for you because they
are persistent.
They are tenacious.
They are not going to let go.
(12:01):
But as they grow those skills asa school ager, as a young adult,
wow.
You know, those can be such hugeassets and such great qualities.
And so I think that sometimeswhen we look at the joys of
parenting, those same thingsthat are difficult for us can
(12:24):
become joys when the child movesto a different stage.
And it's all about that braindevelopment again, right back
into brain development.
But I think that's when itbecomes really important for us
to recognize that even in thestruggle, those qualities may
certainly soon become an asset.
And so squashing those andreally trying to get rid of
(12:47):
those qualities in our child ismaybe not the best interest, but
somehow just finding a way towalk alongside them.
And those challenging traits, Iguess would be the way they put
it, but I think that definitelyis those were joys.
So watching those things that Iknew in my heart that those
(13:10):
personality traits were going tobecome joys.
And I've totally said that aboutmy middle daughter.
You know, I can appreciate that.
She has the ability to letthings just roll off her back
and I need to soak that up fromher.
Mackenzie Johnson (13:24):
Yeah.
Well you kind of remind me, Italk about what some of our
struggles were.
I talked about it in our bonusepisode and then in the blog
that went along with thatepisode.
We didn't get a chance to coverit, you know, since that was
kind of a mini episode.
But in the blog that I wrotewith that I talk about when I
was struggling with my daughter,bedtime and nap time was just
real hard for a while there.
And I had texted you about itand ironically since you talk
(13:46):
about how you don't loveroutines, but you're like,
harness that skill, right?
She knows what she wants and shehas a plan and so we kind of use
that to get her input to developwhatever that stronger routine
was going to be and create alittle visual that went with
that so she could walk throughit.
Right?
She knew what she wanted and shewanted to walk through those
(14:06):
steps because she's a kid with aplan.
And so it was kind of harnessingthat.
I mean, yeah, sometimes it's achallenge, but we kind of turned
it into joy that she had thisnew independence that she was
working on.
Definitely it's a mix of thechallenge and the joy for sure.
Yes.
Yes.
Lori Hayungs (14:24):
Have you ever seen that meme where the little girl
has got her fist up in the airand it says, I'm not bossy, I'm
a leader.
Mackenzie Johnson (14:36):
These are leadership skills.
Lori Hayungs (14:40):
Leadership skills.
I think that as parents wewonder and we worry and we
overthink and this study showsus that twice as many joys as
problems actually kind of comesout in the wash in the end.
Not to minimize by any means thething that we're experiencing
and the challenges, you know,especially in difficult times.
(15:04):
But there are a lot of thingsthat we are going to experience,
and the best thing I think wecan do is exactly what you're
doing, listening to thispodcast.
You're filling your toolbox.
Yeah.
Filling your toolbox.
Mackenzie Johnson (15:17):
And I think you make a great point.
So kind of moving into the end,we'd like to end or kind of
start to wrap our show andsummarize by talking about your
reality.
Okay, we told you the research,we've shared a little bit of
ours.
As a listener, as you thinkabout your own reality, one of
the skills we've talked about isreframing, you know,
understanding those things thatmight be challenges and that are
(15:38):
joys, but reframing them interms of the long-term or the
benefits or turning thatchallenge into a joy or whatever
that might be.
And so reframing is one skillthat you have, but I think one
of the things as we talked aboutplanning this episode on joys
and challenges, one of thethings that I was like, we can't
skip.
We cannot skip that if it's notfeeling like joy, and especially
(15:59):
right now in the midst of, youknow, we're still kind of
figuring out this COVID-19 andwhat it means.
And all of us have differentresources and realities around
that.
If it doesn't feel like joyright now, it's okay to get
help.
And it's okay to be honest withyourself.
And there's actually been timesin my parenting when I was
pregnant with my second, I washaving a really hard time and I
(16:22):
had to be honest with myself,I'm not finding joy in things
that I used to do or I'm notfeeling the way that I normally
do about things.
And I had to be really honestwith myself and my co-parent
about that.
So if you are hearing thisepisode and thinking, well yeah,
sure, there's joy sometimes, butI don't know when it is, we just
want to let you know, one, it'sall right to say that you feel
that way and to be honest withyourself about it and with
(16:45):
others and that there'sresources.
So, specifically from IowaState, there's a lot of
resources, a lot of placesaround the state.
One that's available, 24/7that's totally free for you to
call is a hotline called IowaConcern.
Like I said, totally free,totally confidential.
There's someone always there toanswer, but if the stress feels
(17:06):
overwhelming and you're notreally sure that you're finding
joy anymore and you needsomebody to talk with about that
and maybe you just need someonewho's not someone you know, Iowa
Concern is there for you.
And then if you have questionsabout parenting and child
development and stuff like that,we also have something called
AnswerLine.
And so both of those resourcesare free to call.
Iowa Concern, I actually havethe number written down.
Here it is (17:29):
800-447-1985.
So that's the Iowa Concernhotline or you can of course,
type that into a search engine,find the Iowa Concern hotline or
AnswerLine.
So yeah, lots of joys, lots ofchallenges and it's all right if
you need a little helpnavigating that.
Lori Hayungs (17:45):
So totally a great resource.
Yeah, totally great resources.
And I appreciate that you saidsometimes you just need to talk
to someone you don't know.
Yeah, sometimes you just need toreach out and have someone who
doesn't know you, doesn't knowyour situation listen.
Thank you.
So, you know, in the midst ofall this, and we think about
(18:05):
this, do we want to bring inKenzie and have our Stop.
Breath.
Talk.
moment?
Season one, this is your lastopportunity to stump us.
Mackenzie DeJong (18:21):
So, I'm Mackenzie DeJong.
I know the last couple of timesI've realized that I haven't
introduced myself, but again,I'm Mackenzie DeJong,, podcast
producer and host of the Stop.
Breathe.
Talk.
section of the podcast.
Stop.
Breathe.
Talk.
Is a tool that we frequently usethroughout The Science of
Parenting, but it's also thislittle section that reminds us
(18:44):
to stop for a minute, breatheand then talk about something.
So today's question, topic, itemof discussion is something that
goes right along with theconversation.
So we're talking about theconcerns and the joys, right?
And this is something that I'veheard a lot of families do.
(19:07):
They've called it a lot ofdifferent things.
but it's another tool to put inyour toolbox.
So it's the conversation ofsitting down either every day,
every week, you know,occasionally with your family
members and talking about theconcerns and joys you've had in
the week.
There's lots of things thatpeople have called t hem, you
know, the salt and the sugar,the highs and the lows, good
week bad week, positives a ndnegatives.
(19:30):
So coming up with one thing fromyour week or your day.
Again, this can be a reallygreat tool for parents to either
reflect on their current stateof parenting to say, okay, so
these are the current concerns Ihave.
Being honest about that and thenfinding those joys or it's a
really great tool for familiesat m eal t ime.
(19:51):
J ust sit down and talk throughand teach kids that it's okay to
talk about those scary things,those lows.
And it's okay to talk about thegood things happening.
So my challenge for you today isnot only to share that tool, but
also come up and share with us,a high and a low or a s alt and
a sugar from your parentingjourney throughout the last
(20:14):
week, month, wherever you need to stretch.
But something that comes to mindfor you, maybe a low in
parenting and a high inparenting.
Mackenzie Johnson (20:21):
Yeah.
Can I tell you my reality?
So I got one, I have one.
My go-to regularly to helpinclude, since my kids are
little, we have to be prettyintentional about including them
in the conversation.
You know, it's easy to just talkabout the logistics of our days.
And so, I usually ask aboutsomething that was fun in the
(20:43):
day and something that waschallenging.
There you go.
That's kind of how we phrase itin our house and then something
else that I've kind of adopted.
I don't know where I got itfrom.
It was kind of a spur of themoment thing that my co-parent
and I did one time was we wrotedown all the things that we
loved about our daughter at thatstage that she was in.
(21:04):
I can't say we do this everyyear on her birthday or we do
this every...
It's just happened sometimesactually.
Sometimes it's like when we goon a trip without the kids or
we're out of town for a weekendor something.
That's when I stop and thinkabout it.
But just writing down like, youknow, I love that right now when
she says this word, it soundslike this, or you know that, my
(21:24):
son is at a stage where hescoots on his bottom.
He hops on his butt to get fromA to B.
Just remembering those littlemoments brings some joy.
So that's something little thatwe kind of do.
Lori Hayungs (21:36):
That's great.
That's great.
So I only have one left inschool that I pick up and drop
off regularly.
And so the fun thing for me todo is oftentimes there are
additional children that I'mpicking up or dropping off along
with her.
And so I'll just in the car,open up that conversation.
(21:57):
So what was your favorite thingthat happened today?
And they were taken aback thefirst couple of times I did it
because they thought that I wasjust addressing my daughter and
I was like, no, you're in mycar.
I want to know what was yourfavorite part of the day?
And then we talk about, okay,what was the least favorite part
of the day?
And so that happens just kind ofspontaneously whenever so now if
(22:24):
they show up at my house with mydaughter, we just are able to
say, Hey, what was your favoritething that happened?
What was your favorite thing onvacation?
Or that kind of thing.
So that's kind of a tool that weuse.
And then one thing that I did dowas I had a couple of really big
challenging things that happenedin their lives, whether it was
(22:46):
them all three together or justone of them in particular.
I actually wrote a letter, youknow, kind of explaining, I know
you can't understand this rightnow, but I want you to know that
these are the processes andthoughts I went to to get to
this decision.
And so I have that tucked awayin their box, you know, or in
this case of more recently, Iactually sent it to them, all
(23:10):
three of them.
And I thought, you know, a wayto be able to share it so that
they have it to reflect back on,to be able to say, wow, that was
challenging.
But look at where we're at nowand the joys that we have now.
Mackenzie Johnson (23:22):
Yeah, look at you.
I love that.
Mackenzie DeJong (23:26):
So yeah, different ways to express those
concerns and joys.
Sometimes it's large scale likethat.
And sometimes it can be, youknow, day to day, something that
irritated us during the day orsomething.
Thank you for those awesomeexamples.
Lori Hayungs (23:44):
We survived Stop.
Breath.
Talk.
Mackenzie Johnson (23:48):
We never know what McKenzie is going to ask us
when she comes on.
Mackenzie DeJong (23:54):
Sometimes.
I don't know what I'm going toask when I come on.
Lori Hayungs (23:57):
And believe me, we've tried often as we talk
through our episodes, we mightprobe her for, What do you think
she's going to ask about?
Mackenzie DeJong (24:11):
Because sometimes I don't even know, but
yeah.
All right, well see you all nextseason.
Mackenzie Johnson (24:15):
Thanks.
Thanks kids.
Oh yeah.
So I mean we covered it, right?
Joys and challenges.
There's a mix and you know, weunderstand that our role in
parenting is important.
Society's trusting us to haveour kids' best interests at
heart, and we're kind of thosebuilding blocks of society.
And we know there's going to bea mix of joy and challenges
(24:38):
along the way in that.
But hopefully, right?
If the research holds true foreach of our realities, that
there's more joy thanchallenges.
There's more joy, there's morejoy.
Lori Hayungs (24:47):
So that's our parenting foundations season
one.
Now next week be sure to comeback to Facebook because that's
when we get to interact with youlive.
We look forward to that timebecause we really enjoy the
comment section where people aregetting to ask their quick
questions.
You know, maybe from a previousepisode that they didn't get to
(25:09):
ask.
because we were recorded.
The other thing is that you canalways ask us questions in our
blog, we have opportunities foryou to ask us questions there
with our email there as well.
So thanks for joining us todayon The Science of Parenting
podcast and remember, subscribeto our weekly audio podcasts.
You can find us on Apple,Spotify or your favorite podcast
(25:32):
app and watch us next week.
Once a month we come to you liveand we take your comments and
questions.
Mackenzie Johnson (25:38):
Yeah, so come along with us as we tackle the
ins and outs, the ups and downs,and the research in reality all
around The Science of Parenting.
Thanks.
Anthony Santiago (25:53):
The Science of Parenting is a research-based
education program posted by LoriHayungs and Mackenzie Johnson,
produced by McKenzie DeJong withresearch and writing by Barbara
Dunn Swanson.
Send in questions and commentsto parenting@iastate.edu and
connect with us on Facebook andTwitter.
(26:15):
This program is brought to youby Iowa State University
Extension and Outreach.
This institution is an equalopportunity provider.
For the full non-discriminationstatement or accommodation
inquiries go to www.extension.
iastate.edu/diversity/ ext.
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