May 21, 2025 • 34 mins
"A Singaporean Vision for Space Sustainability" featuring Jonathan Hung, Head of Singapore’s National Space Office
The Secure World Foundation (SWF) and Exponential Academy are proud to present Episode 8 of the “ESG in Space” podcast series, spotlighting an insightful conversation with Jonathan Hung, Head of the Office for Space Technology and Industry (OSTIn)—Singapore’s National Space Office.
In this episode, Jonathan shares Singapore’s evolving journey in the space domain—from the establishment of its first satellite ground station in 1971 to launching its national space office in 2013. Singapore’s approach to space development is defined by a keen focus on sustainable economic growth, global connectivity, and technological innovation across key adjacent industries such as aerospace, finance, and maritime sectors.
As a small but highly strategic nation, Singapore has committed to enabling a pro-business, collaborative space environment, serving as both a regional hub and a global bridge for space activity. Jonathan explains how the city-state leverages public-private partnerships to attract foreign and domestic companies alike, positioning Singapore as a launchpad for startups and established players targeting the Asia-Pacific market and beyond.
The conversation also explores Singapore’s core values in space governance: commitment to international norms, peaceful use of space, and support for inclusive and rules-based cooperation. Singapore is actively engaged in multilateral platforms, such as COPUOS and the Artemis Accords, and recently co-hosted workshops with SWF to promote long-term sustainability and space traffic management across the ASEAN region.
Jonathan also discusses OSTIn’s Earth Observation initiative and investments in quantum communications, highlighting Singapore’s focus on real-world space applications in climate monitoring, financial security, and secure data exchange. Finally, the episode underscores Singapore’s drive to cultivate space talent from the ground up—engaging students, researchers, and innovators in a holistic vision for a sustainable and diverse global space economy.
Tune in to discover how Singapore is crafting a purpose-driven space agenda that blends technology, policy, and entrepreneurship to ensure a resilient and inclusive future among the stars.
Recorded May 2, 2025
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:18):
Nishan DegnarainHello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Sustainability in Space. My name is Nishan Degnarain.
Miki SodeAnd I am Miki Sode.
Nishan DegnarainAnd today we are delighted to have a very exciting podcast with a very special guest. All right, from Singapore, Jonathan Hogg. So let's welcome Jonathan. Jonathan is the head of the Office of Space Technology and Industry in Singapore, otherwise known as a Singapore's national space office. So we're looking forward to having a very unique perspective of a emerging and sophisticated space nation and seeing what role Singapore can play with in that space economy.
(00:57):
Nishan DegnarainJonathan, welcome.
Jonathan HungThank you. Nisha and Mickey for having me as well. Thank you very much.
Miki SodeThank you so much for joining us. So, let's start with, kind of brief history of the Singapore's involvement in the space program, because some of our audience may not be too familiar with it. And also, your role and involvement in that history as well. I think that will be enlightening to hear, how the the hosting, the office for Space technology industry Singapore came about in 2013 and where we are headed.
(01:36):
Jonathan HungSo okay, now, thank you again. For having me on the podcast. Truly excited to be able to share, both Austin's journey, Singapore National Space Office, a bit about myself. So I started my career back, well, almost two decades ago already with the Singapore Economic Development Board. Operationally, that's also where Austin sits in.
(01:58):
Jonathan HungI was involved in the early days of setting up a space program office of sorts. And that was, two decades ago. I've been in many, areas in space covering space and defense in companies, various portfolios among startups, SMEs. I've sat on a few boards of our growth startups here in space as well. And it's always been a passion of mine.
(02:20):
Jonathan HungAnd most recently, I served as the executive chairman of our space industry body as well. Before coming back to head up the office, in November 2023. I serve in a few boards of space related ones, including our Space Generation Advisory Council, where I sit as an honorary board member. And I also sit on, a few committees at the International Astronautical Federation.
(02:43):
Jonathan HungSo a little bit about myself. Now coming to what's where Austin, I guess, has taken off from, well, our history actually goes back, quite some years. We started off, several decades ago with our installation of our first satellite ground station back on Sentosa. It's an island off Singapore in 1971. And we also launched our first communications satellite, in 1998.
(03:06):
Jonathan HungSo the office for Space Technology Industry, or Austin for short, began in 2013, initially focusing on the development of small satellite capabilities. Fast forward to 2020, we were given the mandate to develop Singapore space industry as Singapore's national space office. So our mission is really to develop the next round of Singapore's space sector to promote economic growth, advance scientific discovery, and inspire a new generation of innovators.
(03:32):
Jonathan HungWe do so by facilitating the investment of space companies into Singapore. Also managing our local national space programs and also building international relations with partner countries. And that's very, very important for us. Austin is also responsible for fostering an enabling, regulatory environment for Singapore's space activities and supporting also the development of talent. In Singapore, space sector and future workforce.
(03:58):
Nishan DegnarainWell, that's, that's a wide and ambitious set of programs from the setting, the regulations, running your own space program and operations, as well as stipulated the private sector. I think about the long term growth, frontier industries and workforce of the future AI capabilities. It's, a very exciting place. I think what what's interesting here is that, if for decades, the space race has traditionally been between two large players, the United States and Soviet Union and Russia.
(04:28):
Nishan DegnarainAnd then we start to use emerging nations like the India's Israel, Japan, European Space Agency, emerged. But in recent decades, you know, certainly in the last 20 years, the private space industry has developed. And now we start to see this, the smaller niche, nations, you know, like Singapore, like the UAE. So what what role do you see as a smaller space station?
(04:55):
Nishan DegnarainI imagine the budget is a fraction of that of NASA or the Chinese space agency. What role do you see Singapore playing in that emerging space environment, where there are a lot of big players that are out there trying to, try to get space and the prime slots.
Jonathan HungSo mission is a very good question. So, you know, in Singapore, you talked about we do a lot of things, small country, you know, we have to do more with less, and make the most of it. So, certainly very excited about the growth of the global space economy and also the role of, of all countries, including the small ones like Singapore.
(05:30):
Jonathan HungAnd we have to decide and you tell me where best we can play. So global trends in space, opening up actually new opportunities for talent companies, and countries like Singapore. We look at it as a positive. We want to expand the ecosystem. And also deliver, impactful space related innovations and solutions to the world.
Jonathan HungSo our vision is really to be a credible, global player in space, propelling innovation, enriching lives, and also securing a sustainable future for Singapore and the world. Google play, as you well know, is a leading global hub for businesses and space adjacent sectors such as aerospace, microelectronics, precision engineering. You know, we have all of the ingredients. We believe, I think, to to support a sustainable space economy.
(06:14):
Jonathan HungWe don't necessarily have a burgeoning space sector, but certainly the adjacencies helped to concretize. I think our our approach to space. So we're well-placed to capitalize on this global momentum and growth potential in the space sector. You hear about a lot of new space, activities that we also want to use space technologies to strengthen our position, as a hub, as a as a global hub for aviation, maritime connectivity and sustainability.
(06:39):
Jonathan HungAnd this includes the use of space technologies to enhance communications connectivity issues, as well as to drive innovation in the green and digital economy. Frequency spectrum is an example of a finite resource that can be carefully used also with tech innovation. We have companies in Singapore such as a Transit Astro, a Singapore based telecom service provider, and they create innovative, laser communication technologies that will soon be demonstrated in space for in space, in the satellite link capability.
(07:06):
Jonathan HungSo these terminals, that they develop enable faster interference free data transfer, and also significantly improve scalability and bandwidth. Such programs are examples of high tech innovation, merit. What's also our key thrust in ensuring that we built strong resiliency and connectivity and that actually enhances our regional connectivity as a whole as well. Singapore is also home to about 70 companies across the value chain.
(07:31):
Jonathan HungJust to give you a sense, and about 2000 or so professionals and researchers. Yeah. And it's a range of companies, both local, domestic companies as well as foreign companies that we won't be welcome here yet. Unseen labs. Senate Intel set a few of these places called Singapore, home. And we have a few established regional, installed base.
Jonathan HungThere's also in-country. So this pro-business approach is critical, I think, for us to support and sustain the sector.
(07:57):
Nishan DegnarainYeah. I mean, it sounds there's something there that's, some of the value system, and I think he's got some questions about that, but that sounds that's, that's what makes Singapore, unique. It's not just a government dominated, approach. Is that public private partnership, but I imagine it's a combination of allowing the private sector to innovate, but also give it a little bit of guidance, for what it sounds like, you know, targeted guidance of domains like aviation or maritime or the green sector through which you'd like to see, so that's the space innovations.
(08:28):
Jonathan HungThat's a non-issue. And it's important that we remain pro-business. An open economy is not just unique to space. It's actually the entire DNA of our economic, strategy. Right. We want to welcome everybody, do our best to support them. I mean, again, Singapore may not be the largest market for many of the key sectors that we call home.
Jonathan HungBut certainly I think it's situated well within the Asia Pacific region. We can be the hub for them to scale, go global or go regional. Right. And I think that's where the talent plays an important role. And government support is important. You know, as a space office, we support strongly our companies, whether they are local, again, as I mentioned, or locally based foreign companies, frankly, it doesn't matter.
(09:07):
Jonathan HungBut we do our best to incentivize them and support them to grow out of Singapore.
Miki SodeYeah, we already touched on this. But you know how Singapore is a global player, right? But also with the space program, you lead the, Singapore's like overall economy too, right? So I would like to, dig deep and ask you about what are some, core values that's driving, Singapore's space program. What's important for you?
(09:43):
Jonathan HungYeah, yeah. Now, that's a good question as well. I mean, to be frank, as a responsible, but nascent space faring country, Singapore is committed to ensuring the peaceful, sustainable and safe use of space. We believe that space remains a global commerce, that can be harnessed for the collective benefit of humankind. Yeah. Singapore supports the development of international norms, and an open, inclusive and rules based international regime that's very important governing space activities to promote responsible behavior in outer space.
(10:14):
Jonathan HungSo collaboration is crucial, in ensuring the safe and sustainable use of space for all. We've always been an open economy society, as I mentioned earlier, and our impact is actually multiplied by all our partnerships, both bilaterally and also multilaterally. We globally convene various platforms where we bring together industry experts, investors, researchers, students, national space agencies, and so on, so forth.
(10:38):
Jonathan HungAnyone interested in having a dialog with us or with partners around the world, right. And as a hub, I guess we foster this space collaboration across the public, private sector nexus, you know, and we will continue to, to support them. Actually, on that note, we also, happy, happy to share that we co-hosted two workshops, with the Secure Foundation on long term sustainability in, October 2024.
(11:01):
Jonathan HungAnd space traffic management just, in February 2025. And that also which, helped to reach out to all our regional friends in the region. Yeah.
Nishan DegnarainAnd so this is interesting, in an interesting moment in history, right, where there are kind of fracturing multilateral relations. Yeah, there is that core set of values around collaboration, openness that, you know, awareness, education, that's needed. I mean, Singapore has played a pivotal role in many other, verticals in the global economy, right, as aviation, maritime finance in terms of our business, a regional business hub.
(11:40):
Nishan DegnarainAnd so, how do you see your role as a space, you know, that as a national space agency, space office as a regulator? Are there ways that you've, influence the space economy to be more sustainable, rather than extractive? To, as you mentioned, because look at the rules based, approach. Is that something that, you know, Singapore is actively managed.
(12:09):
Nishan DegnarainYou found that, you know, naturally, a lot of space companies have tried to, to to gravitate towards some of the, the right sort of norms that align with your values.
Jonathan HungWell, I mean, know, that's also something that we, that we try to innovate or ideas, on a day to day basis. I mean, we, we certainly adhere to a rule space, infrastructure. And I think companies here certainly recognize this is an evolving process. You know, we don't want to overregulate, at the same time, you want to make sure that we remain open.
(12:41):
Jonathan HungYeah. So it's always this this struggle, I think, between the two. But open communication is important with the companies. We work very closely with our space agencies in the region and globally as well, identify best practices, determine, I guess you know, what works and what doesn't. We also try our best to crystal ball into the future to see where are areas that we can place our bets in.
(13:03):
Jonathan HungSo these areas, I think, are things that we, we truly study and try our very best to be be a home for for talent, for innovation, for all our companies and organizations that want to work with us, as a, as a regulator or I guess as a national space organization, in-country, we are responsible for, for the growth of the sector.
Jonathan HungIndeed, whether it is, you know, in jiggy or B2B sectors, I mean, we are all this to us is very important to make up, you know, the whole core foundation of what makes Singapore work for space in particular. It's again, not we don't have a burgeoning domestic sector. But we played all strengths. We talked about aerospace, maritime connectivity.
(13:44):
Jonathan HungThese are things that again, space technologies have many applications too, right? So not only do we want to attract them here, we certainly don't want to just be, base infrastructure for everybody. But there has to be some degree of economic spin off that it can gain minimal prototype test bit new ideas, you know, and bring it to the world.
Jonathan HungRight. So in these areas and buckets that we have identified that they can train, these are the core thrusts, within our space, mixed board of space, developments in Singapore. Right. And over the next 5 to 10 years, we believe that bringing all this together, there will be a clear commercial case, actually, for the companies to see value in being here.
(14:21):
Jonathan HungAnd hopefully we can help to scrub and, be, sounding board for their business plans. Right. Because if we can make it here and make it in region, then I suspect they will be able to globalize, fairly easily as well.
Nishan DegnarainSo that's an interesting perspective. So Singapore. Yeah, really being a springboard for space based companies. Yeah. You know, I guess regionally the Asian region of Southeast Asia, but then also globally as well. So that creates an interesting kind of framing device because, yeah, such a diverse and immersive kind of use of these space based technologies.
(14:57):
Nishan DegnarainHow do you think about some of the risks that may exist within space? Because as you mentioned in the comments at the outset, space has to be open, accessible, all, for all nations, right? Imagine space station as well as those who are operating. And we have different value sets of, nations that are operating in space.
(15:17):
Nishan DegnarainSome who may want to look at, you know, other applications, more military based applications, others, mobile, peaceful commercial applications. But, it just takes a few. You bad actors, if you like, to damage the sustainability, of space. And we've seen that on the on the terrestrial front, when we look at the use of our oceans or the Arctic versus Antarctica or, you know, how biodiversity is governed, for example, the current space frameworks, based on, you know, UN treaties that have been around for maybe half a century before a lot of, developments have been in place.
(15:57):
Nishan DegnarainAnd there are these new emerging accords that have been signed. Do you feel that for the next five years, ten years as a, as a space agency, you are looking at these decadal, long time horizons? Do you feel that we have the right governance structures to prepare us for the next decade, or where the space industry is heading, or is there a need for either you governance and you capable parties to think about how we govern the norms and awareness of where the space space needs to have?
(16:30):
Jonathan HungOkay, so maybe I start off, by sharing that, first and foremost, I think Singapore actively participated in various multilateral fora, such as the United Nations, Committee and other peaceful uses of outer space. You encompass, the Artemis Accords meetings, as well as the World Radio Communications conference WRC, organized by the UN, International Telecommunications Union.
(16:53):
Jonathan HungITU. So regionally, we actively engage in forms such as the Asean Subcommittee on Space Technology and Applications. Of course, and the Asia Pacific Regional Space Agency Forum, or EPR for short. Singapore joined the copious in 2019, and also seeks to formulate the framework for enhancing collaboration in space technology and applications. Now all these platforms are critical.
(17:19):
Jonathan HungWe hosted some of these sessions in convene them, for example, we hosted the 33rd, meeting of the Asean Scotia in 2024. Just last year. It was an important platform because we, we, we helped to actually bring together, the region and also brought them overseas, to the International Astronautical, Congress right after. So we signed the Artemis Accords in 2022 as the 18th signatory.
(17:44):
Jonathan HungAnd we believe that the accords provides a useful framework for guiding cooperation on space exploration, right. To ensure its conduct, in a safe, sustainable and transparent manner. Singapore supports the voluntary implementation of the guidelines on the long term sustainability of Outer Space, or the LCS guidelines and support of the international community is important to preserve the long term sustainability of space for emerging spacefaring and small states.
(18:12):
Jonathan HungThis last part also is important because we fall within that bucket, and we have to ensure that that I think that common norms is preserved. Space is a global resource and really doesn't just belong to only the bigger chains. It's also important for the voices of small countries and emerging spacefaring nations to be heard, and their rights also to be preserved.
(18:32):
Jonathan HungSo actually, collective space governance is crucial right? Amongst all the existing fora. Right? As more players, more public, private, you know, players emerge, and these important dialogs, do have to take place. I think most importantly, these conversations at this fora is critical where everybody, I guess, has a chance to be heard. Perspectives are heard and heeded.
(18:53):
Jonathan HungRight. And these institutional frameworks, we certainly adapt and certainly also evolve over time.
Nishan DegnarainYeah. Well, I can see, you know, it's very powerful for for, you know, nations like Singapore, which aren't as large as perhaps, you know, the US or China with, you know, different kind of value stakes to come in and be this, this, this, this convening of this house, you, this neutral, platform to, to have these discussions.
(19:19):
Nishan DegnarainBecause when we start to see all the trends such as exponential technological trend, you know, the role of artificial intelligence in advanced robotics and propulsion systems that will allow us to do more with space, the emergence of a range of private sector actors, those that are government back from certain nations to us, which are more private sector entrepreneurial from other nations, possibly even more high risk from other nations.
(19:43):
Nishan DegnarainAnd and then the the rise of new emergent space faring nations here. Several years ago, we would not have imagined that there would be, probes from, you know, nations like the UAE or Saudi, you know, Singapore, certainly there Rwanda, Nigeria, you know, a lot of other nations are now looking at space as that domain, which is essential for their economies and their, their, the, the political economy to, to also, progress.
(20:09):
Nishan DegnarainAnd so with that, it sounds as if that there is a need for evolution, there is a need for, for, for hosting or building these capabilities. And it's actually a unique position that a nation like Singapore, could take, especially with its value set around openness and collaboration. And the bridge between some of the larger, nations that that might be their mission.
(20:33):
Jonathan HungIt's a it's a fair point. I just thought I also add that, about one of the, I guess, advantages of, being a small nation is one thing, but also to some degree, we are we are newer to some of these international fora. I mean, we want to actively contribute and we try to to bring, some capabilities to bear as well, or use a different school of thought.
Jonathan HungPolicy perspectives are important, and we certainly align with our partners and or member states, on key policy. So across, for example, LPs, you know, various other, sustainability guidelines and support, infrastructure that all countries should, should, should support in general. But to substantiate some of our positions as well, or is to bring to bear some of these capabilities.
(21:15):
Jonathan HungYou talked about one thing we are doing more of is also doing more technical exchanges. Right? So although, you know, a lot of these traditional platforms have been very policy centric, I see a lot more technical exchanges happening on the sidelines. Right. And in fact, more and more so that sometimes they become more frontline conversations. Singapore is home to a lot of technical research and talent.
(21:36):
Jonathan HungInstitutes of higher learning and research institutes are not bad. You know, I think they do have a decent, showing across the world. And this is something that we try to advocate. We bring up our technical experts to these platforms so that they also can provide perspectives. You know, it's important that these capabilities and technologies are well understood.
Jonathan HungI think that is a base, again, for people to, to develop new ideas and perspectives, and through our initiatives such as, we launched, one and a half months ago, our Earth Observation Initiative brings together. It brings together a community of Earth observation peers, partners, non-governmental organizations, or basically any organization that has challenges that space satellite technology can solve, bring this community together and solve real world problems.
(22:23):
Jonathan HungSo this whole initiative, with our founding, you know, 15 members and partners, we are proliferating and sharing that, hey, you know, if you need, downstream applications or analysis of satellite data for a whole range of needs from disaster management to disease monitoring, food security, food resiliency, or climate watch. If all the research institutes have those capabilities and and analysis already done, we are happy to share that and bring it to bear, deploy our assets to support, countries, you know, in particular within maybe the equatorial belt.
(22:55):
Jonathan HungFirst, because that's where we are, and also the larger Asia-Pacific region. So things like that is, examples of capabilities or initiatives that we would like to wholeheartedly share with the community. Again, so that we can bridge the gap between, actual understanding of what can be done and delivered together with closing the gap with policy decisions.
(23:16):
Nishan DegnarainThink that's fascinating because, yeah, it is this unique time in the world right now. And you talk about whether it's access to open source protocols or models or data sets, as well as the need for, for trust as well. What they've since, but the importance of soft levers, it's something that we're hearing more and more about.
(23:36):
Nishan DegnarainIt's not just about the, the hard influence of regulation that's there, but the technical exchange, the educational exchange, the awareness that, you could have these free flowing dialogs between private sector operators. Not that's not around collusion, but it's about, technical, you know, sharing education, awareness exchanges, particularly at a time where we're seeing this kind of fragmentation, the, the, the defunding of certain Earth observation institutes from, you know, that's the which had some of the largest budgets.
(24:08):
Nishan DegnarainIt does create new opportunities for emerging space nations to step in and develop capabilities along the entire value chain, from observation to modeling, to end use applications like insurance, for example. That could that could, actually fare well for nations like Singapore to step in and expand, that that space economist.
(24:30):
Jonathan HungNo, certainly I think these are areas, and adjacencies, as you mentioned, that are critical. I mean, Singapore is also a finance hub. You know, we we, we want to make sure that we, we play to our strengths. As I mentioned earlier, securing that sector, also to some degree requires space technologies, like for example, I mean, satellite communications, is a mainstay.
Jonathan HungAnd we have to think a little further as well. We have companies that play in the quantum key distribution space, you know, securing, next generation, communications via quantum technologies. Right? So a lot of our local company, spectrum, actually is developing those quantum payloads, and they themselves, you know, work together with our banks, you know, our, our, our authorities within the finance sector and not just within Singapore, cross-border, because it really is cross-border, you know, intercontinental, transactions that will require security in the future.
(25:20):
Jonathan HungAnd this then applies to any kind of sensitive data that I guess, you know, data privacy is going to be the heart and soul of what we discuss, I guess, in the next decade or so. And those, intercontinental platforms. Right, require satellite technologies. Right. So these are things that we try and build grown up. We know there is a market need, end of the day, and we try our very best to encourage, such advances, even though at early stage and this requires, again, heavy lifting from the government from day one.
(25:47):
Jonathan HungWe're prepared to support this. The National Space Office, actually disperses, funds through our space technology and development program. Fund is a fund is, is an R&D, fund that goes to our companies and also to our institutes of higher learning for, for next generation capabilities. We announced, again just recently, earlier this year, a top up of, 60 million SGD.
(26:11):
Jonathan HungAnd that adds on to the earlier $150 million that we pumped into our sector for R&D. Over the last five years or so. These things are, areas that we put in, and we ensure that our public private sector partnerships not just do work within domestic Singapore, but we highly encourage them to also find, like minded partners overseas.
(26:33):
Jonathan HungRight. Bridges that we as Austin has actually driven, and partnered. We have countries that we have, mou space with their space agency counterparts. Actually does quite a diverse field. And, we certainly encourage both researchers, industry and all partners around them, to, to, to support these efforts.
Miki SodeBefore we wrap up, I have a question. Earlier you mentioned about your involvement to SDC as well as, enforcing and encouraging the future workforce is one of the important, component or the tenant of of Austin. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
(27:14):
Jonathan HungWell, capacity building is important. It stretches across the whole realm. Depends on who you ask. You know, some people say it's university, that, you know, sap goes all the way down to our, our preschoolers, you know, but certainly we look at the, the, the universities, I use the tertiary institutions first, we try to support, all kinds of innovation that they are proposing to us very well, ideas.
(27:38):
Jonathan HungBut we encourage them all. We have universities today and, even high schools that, have launched satellites, those things, already, I think to us, the, the early stages of, of building up the talent pipeline, we tried to go earlier as well. Outreach is important. But most importantly, I think we want to drive awareness and allow a lot of our young students access to industry.
(27:59):
Jonathan HungWe have a vibrant startup ecosystem, which also helps, to be quite honest. The kids today don't listen to me. They listen to the startup founders in tech. For those that are, very excited about space, that actually they are the first to evangelize it. We do encourage, those activities. And I think it's important that, again, as a national organization and national space office, we provide, not just real world problems for them to solve, but programs for them to be part of.
(28:26):
Jonathan HungAnd these programs are not just space programs, right? We want them to understand that space cuts across all of the adjacency. So we spoke about, and this is something that we, we bring to the table and expose our younger generations to. Right. That space actually is cross-cutting, diffused us into a range of industries. So, you know, there are good jobs, you know, in the space, domain.
Jonathan HungAnd we encourage everybody to strive for it. So these are things that we do encourage on a day to day basis.
(28:51):
Miki SodeYeah. And I could tell that how we talked about adjacency too. But like from activities like that from either high school or earlier, aspiring students could feel that there is a role for them to play in a future space. And then that is encouraging for them to participate more, study more, and then, make a contribution to not only to Singapore's space program, but to the global, economy as well.
(29:20):
Jonathan HungSo that's right. No, you're right. We don't focus stress on. Well, to be honest, there's no pure space engineer. A lot of our satellite engineers come from, you know, a mixed bag of engineering, right? I mean, electronics, mechanical systems engineers, you know, so it's across the board, the sciences, you know, a space program requires, you know, the best in many fields.
(29:41):
Jonathan HungYou need good communicators. You need need policy legal experts. You need medical professionals. So actually, to us, we see space as really, a pinnacle, right, of, of of success for a lot of these, young students. And, again, the talent pipeline, if they can certainly achieve what they're doing in their, in their domains, we will be welcomed into contributing the space sector for the technical guys.
(30:03):
Jonathan HungI think being in Stem is important again, supports our whole Stem foundation in Singapore that allows that technical, innovation expertise to be born out of and supporting our global economy. But whatever they are doing, I think it's important for us to encourage and as we have seen, the the space programs, especially the larger complex partnerships that we want to be part of, international programs, require people from all walks of life.
(30:28):
Jonathan HungYeah. So this is something that we want to encourage, so that we get the best, options, I guess, and that we can, we can provide again for our, our next generation of of of budding scientists, engineers, you know, space, entrepreneurs.
Nishan DegnarainFor the exit. I mean, Justin, I feel we could we could go on forever. We've come to the end of our time. But this has been a fascinating discussion, a fascinating insight to how Singapore thinks about, that space economy. I mean, we covered, topics from, you know, the the importance of partnership, the role of government, which is particularly unique in Singapore, that public private partnership, which is very special.
(31:08):
Nishan DegnarainThink about the value system. You know, about rules based order, the importance of the private sector, the peaceful use of space and the various, of course, at Singapore aside, which is important, that it shows, the orderly development of the space economy is something which which is crucial for Singapore. But also, I think internationally as well.
Nishan DegnarainIt it's great to see a mine there traveling internationally. You know, you touched on the the sophistication of the programs and what your, the national, space Office does in terms of setting the right R&D program, investing in R&D. But, you know, thinking about the adjacencies with other sectors like finance, provided that guided, inflows to some of the early stage, startups in the space economy, which is important as well to look at, you know, with maritime aviation, finance, for example.
(31:56):
Nishan DegnarainAnd, you know, I hear you talked about the importance of a long term workforce and you said, well, the sophisticated there's no one particular degree that will lead you into a space entrepreneurship role. And so it really is the the pinnacle of talent and skills to get there. And I think, what we've heard from you today, John said, is, is almost like a pinnacle of space and government coming together.
(32:16):
Nishan DegnarainIn your experience working with industry and sophisticated policymaking to get to this level of a very sophisticated, very enlightened, space agency. So I think there's a lot more that we could explore. But unfortunately for the today's podcast, we run out of times, with I would just like to say thank you, Jonathan, for for joining us on today's, podcast.
Miki SodeThank you so much.
Jonathan HungThank you. Thank you. Mickey, thank you for having me. Thank you very much.
(32:39):
Nishan DegnarainThank you.
Nishan Degnarain
Nishan DegnarainHello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Sustainability in Space. My name is Nishan Degnarain.
Miki SodeAnd I am Miki Sode.
Nishan DegnarainAnd today we are delighted to have a very exciting podcast with a very special guest. All right, from Singapore, Jonathan Hogg. So let's welcome Jonathan. Jonathan is the head of the Office of Space Technology and Industry in Singapore, otherwise known as a Singapore's national space office. So we're looking forward to having a very unique perspective of a emerging and sophisticated space nation and seeing what role Singapore can play with in that space economy.
(00:57):
Nishan DegnarainJonathan, welcome.
Jonathan HungThank you. Nisha and Mickey for having me as well. Thank you very much.
Miki SodeThank you so much for joining us. So, let's start with, kind of brief history of the Singapore's involvement in the space program, because some of our audience may not be too familiar with it. And also, your role and involvement in that history as well. I think that will be enlightening to hear, how the the hosting, the office for Space technology industry Singapore came about in 2013 and where we are headed.
(01:36):
Jonathan HungSo okay, now, thank you again. For having me on the podcast. Truly excited to be able to share, both Austin's journey, Singapore National Space Office, a bit about myself. So I started my career back, well, almost two decades ago already with the Singapore Economic Development Board. Operationally, that's also where Austin sits in.
(01:58):
Jonathan HungI was involved in the early days of setting up a space program office of sorts. And that was, two decades ago. I've been in many, areas in space covering space and defense in companies, various portfolios among startups, SMEs. I've sat on a few boards of our growth startups here in space as well. And it's always been a passion of mine.
(02:20):
Jonathan HungAnd most recently, I served as the executive chairman of our space industry body as well. Before coming back to head up the office, in November 2023. I serve in a few boards of space related ones, including our Space Generation Advisory Council, where I sit as an honorary board member. And I also sit on, a few committees at the International Astronautical Federation.
(02:43):
Jonathan HungSo a little bit about myself. Now coming to what's where Austin, I guess, has taken off from, well, our history actually goes back, quite some years. We started off, several decades ago with our installation of our first satellite ground station back on Sentosa. It's an island off Singapore in 1971. And we also launched our first communications satellite, in 1998.
(03:06):
Jonathan HungSo the office for Space Technology Industry, or Austin for short, began in 2013, initially focusing on the development of small satellite capabilities. Fast forward to 2020, we were given the mandate to develop Singapore space industry as Singapore's national space office. So our mission is really to develop the next round of Singapore's space sector to promote economic growth, advance scientific discovery, and inspire a new generation of innovators.
(03:32):
Jonathan HungWe do so by facilitating the investment of space companies into Singapore. Also managing our local national space programs and also building international relations with partner countries. And that's very, very important for us. Austin is also responsible for fostering an enabling, regulatory environment for Singapore's space activities and supporting also the development of talent. In Singapore, space sector and future workforce.
(03:58):
Nishan DegnarainWell, that's, that's a wide and ambitious set of programs from the setting, the regulations, running your own space program and operations, as well as stipulated the private sector. I think about the long term growth, frontier industries and workforce of the future AI capabilities. It's, a very exciting place. I think what what's interesting here is that, if for decades, the space race has traditionally been between two large players, the United States and Soviet Union and Russia.
(04:28):
Nishan DegnarainAnd then we start to use emerging nations like the India's Israel, Japan, European Space Agency, emerged. But in recent decades, you know, certainly in the last 20 years, the private space industry has developed. And now we start to see this, the smaller niche, nations, you know, like Singapore, like the UAE. So what what role do you see as a smaller space station?
(04:55):
Nishan DegnarainI imagine the budget is a fraction of that of NASA or the Chinese space agency. What role do you see Singapore playing in that emerging space environment, where there are a lot of big players that are out there trying to, try to get space and the prime slots.
Jonathan HungSo mission is a very good question. So, you know, in Singapore, you talked about we do a lot of things, small country, you know, we have to do more with less, and make the most of it. So, certainly very excited about the growth of the global space economy and also the role of, of all countries, including the small ones like Singapore.
(05:30):
Jonathan HungAnd we have to decide and you tell me where best we can play. So global trends in space, opening up actually new opportunities for talent companies, and countries like Singapore. We look at it as a positive. We want to expand the ecosystem. And also deliver, impactful space related innovations and solutions to the world.
Jonathan HungSo our vision is really to be a credible, global player in space, propelling innovation, enriching lives, and also securing a sustainable future for Singapore and the world. Google play, as you well know, is a leading global hub for businesses and space adjacent sectors such as aerospace, microelectronics, precision engineering. You know, we have all of the ingredients. We believe, I think, to to support a sustainable space economy.
(06:14):
Jonathan HungWe don't necessarily have a burgeoning space sector, but certainly the adjacencies helped to concretize. I think our our approach to space. So we're well-placed to capitalize on this global momentum and growth potential in the space sector. You hear about a lot of new space, activities that we also want to use space technologies to strengthen our position, as a hub, as a as a global hub for aviation, maritime connectivity and sustainability.
(06:39):
Jonathan HungAnd this includes the use of space technologies to enhance communications connectivity issues, as well as to drive innovation in the green and digital economy. Frequency spectrum is an example of a finite resource that can be carefully used also with tech innovation. We have companies in Singapore such as a Transit Astro, a Singapore based telecom service provider, and they create innovative, laser communication technologies that will soon be demonstrated in space for in space, in the satellite link capability.
(07:06):
Jonathan HungSo these terminals, that they develop enable faster interference free data transfer, and also significantly improve scalability and bandwidth. Such programs are examples of high tech innovation, merit. What's also our key thrust in ensuring that we built strong resiliency and connectivity and that actually enhances our regional connectivity as a whole as well. Singapore is also home to about 70 companies across the value chain.
(07:31):
Jonathan HungJust to give you a sense, and about 2000 or so professionals and researchers. Yeah. And it's a range of companies, both local, domestic companies as well as foreign companies that we won't be welcome here yet. Unseen labs. Senate Intel set a few of these places called Singapore, home. And we have a few established regional, installed base.
Jonathan HungThere's also in-country. So this pro-business approach is critical, I think, for us to support and sustain the sector.
(07:57):
Nishan DegnarainYeah. I mean, it sounds there's something there that's, some of the value system, and I think he's got some questions about that, but that sounds that's, that's what makes Singapore, unique. It's not just a government dominated, approach. Is that public private partnership, but I imagine it's a combination of allowing the private sector to innovate, but also give it a little bit of guidance, for what it sounds like, you know, targeted guidance of domains like aviation or maritime or the green sector through which you'd like to see, so that's the space innovations.
(08:28):
Jonathan HungThat's a non-issue. And it's important that we remain pro-business. An open economy is not just unique to space. It's actually the entire DNA of our economic, strategy. Right. We want to welcome everybody, do our best to support them. I mean, again, Singapore may not be the largest market for many of the key sectors that we call home.
Jonathan HungBut certainly I think it's situated well within the Asia Pacific region. We can be the hub for them to scale, go global or go regional. Right. And I think that's where the talent plays an important role. And government support is important. You know, as a space office, we support strongly our companies, whether they are local, again, as I mentioned, or locally based foreign companies, frankly, it doesn't matter.
(09:07):
Jonathan HungBut we do our best to incentivize them and support them to grow out of Singapore.
Miki SodeYeah, we already touched on this. But you know how Singapore is a global player, right? But also with the space program, you lead the, Singapore's like overall economy too, right? So I would like to, dig deep and ask you about what are some, core values that's driving, Singapore's space program. What's important for you?
(09:43):
Jonathan HungYeah, yeah. Now, that's a good question as well. I mean, to be frank, as a responsible, but nascent space faring country, Singapore is committed to ensuring the peaceful, sustainable and safe use of space. We believe that space remains a global commerce, that can be harnessed for the collective benefit of humankind. Yeah. Singapore supports the development of international norms, and an open, inclusive and rules based international regime that's very important governing space activities to promote responsible behavior in outer space.
(10:14):
Jonathan HungSo collaboration is crucial, in ensuring the safe and sustainable use of space for all. We've always been an open economy society, as I mentioned earlier, and our impact is actually multiplied by all our partnerships, both bilaterally and also multilaterally. We globally convene various platforms where we bring together industry experts, investors, researchers, students, national space agencies, and so on, so forth.
(10:38):
Jonathan HungAnyone interested in having a dialog with us or with partners around the world, right. And as a hub, I guess we foster this space collaboration across the public, private sector nexus, you know, and we will continue to, to support them. Actually, on that note, we also, happy, happy to share that we co-hosted two workshops, with the Secure Foundation on long term sustainability in, October 2024.
(11:01):
Jonathan HungAnd space traffic management just, in February 2025. And that also which, helped to reach out to all our regional friends in the region. Yeah.
Nishan DegnarainAnd so this is interesting, in an interesting moment in history, right, where there are kind of fracturing multilateral relations. Yeah, there is that core set of values around collaboration, openness that, you know, awareness, education, that's needed. I mean, Singapore has played a pivotal role in many other, verticals in the global economy, right, as aviation, maritime finance in terms of our business, a regional business hub.
(11:40):
Nishan DegnarainAnd so, how do you see your role as a space, you know, that as a national space agency, space office as a regulator? Are there ways that you've, influence the space economy to be more sustainable, rather than extractive? To, as you mentioned, because look at the rules based, approach. Is that something that, you know, Singapore is actively managed.
(12:09):
Nishan DegnarainYou found that, you know, naturally, a lot of space companies have tried to, to to gravitate towards some of the, the right sort of norms that align with your values.
Jonathan HungWell, I mean, know, that's also something that we, that we try to innovate or ideas, on a day to day basis. I mean, we, we certainly adhere to a rule space, infrastructure. And I think companies here certainly recognize this is an evolving process. You know, we don't want to overregulate, at the same time, you want to make sure that we remain open.
(12:41):
Jonathan HungYeah. So it's always this this struggle, I think, between the two. But open communication is important with the companies. We work very closely with our space agencies in the region and globally as well, identify best practices, determine, I guess you know, what works and what doesn't. We also try our best to crystal ball into the future to see where are areas that we can place our bets in.
(13:03):
Jonathan HungSo these areas, I think, are things that we, we truly study and try our very best to be be a home for for talent, for innovation, for all our companies and organizations that want to work with us, as a, as a regulator or I guess as a national space organization, in-country, we are responsible for, for the growth of the sector.
Jonathan HungIndeed, whether it is, you know, in jiggy or B2B sectors, I mean, we are all this to us is very important to make up, you know, the whole core foundation of what makes Singapore work for space in particular. It's again, not we don't have a burgeoning domestic sector. But we played all strengths. We talked about aerospace, maritime connectivity.
(13:44):
Jonathan HungThese are things that again, space technologies have many applications too, right? So not only do we want to attract them here, we certainly don't want to just be, base infrastructure for everybody. But there has to be some degree of economic spin off that it can gain minimal prototype test bit new ideas, you know, and bring it to the world.
Jonathan HungRight. So in these areas and buckets that we have identified that they can train, these are the core thrusts, within our space, mixed board of space, developments in Singapore. Right. And over the next 5 to 10 years, we believe that bringing all this together, there will be a clear commercial case, actually, for the companies to see value in being here.
(14:21):
Jonathan HungAnd hopefully we can help to scrub and, be, sounding board for their business plans. Right. Because if we can make it here and make it in region, then I suspect they will be able to globalize, fairly easily as well.
Nishan DegnarainSo that's an interesting perspective. So Singapore. Yeah, really being a springboard for space based companies. Yeah. You know, I guess regionally the Asian region of Southeast Asia, but then also globally as well. So that creates an interesting kind of framing device because, yeah, such a diverse and immersive kind of use of these space based technologies.
(14:57):
Nishan DegnarainHow do you think about some of the risks that may exist within space? Because as you mentioned in the comments at the outset, space has to be open, accessible, all, for all nations, right? Imagine space station as well as those who are operating. And we have different value sets of, nations that are operating in space.
(15:17):
Nishan DegnarainSome who may want to look at, you know, other applications, more military based applications, others, mobile, peaceful commercial applications. But, it just takes a few. You bad actors, if you like, to damage the sustainability, of space. And we've seen that on the on the terrestrial front, when we look at the use of our oceans or the Arctic versus Antarctica or, you know, how biodiversity is governed, for example, the current space frameworks, based on, you know, UN treaties that have been around for maybe half a century before a lot of, developments have been in place.
(15:57):
Nishan DegnarainAnd there are these new emerging accords that have been signed. Do you feel that for the next five years, ten years as a, as a space agency, you are looking at these decadal, long time horizons? Do you feel that we have the right governance structures to prepare us for the next decade, or where the space industry is heading, or is there a need for either you governance and you capable parties to think about how we govern the norms and awareness of where the space space needs to have?
(16:30):
Jonathan HungOkay, so maybe I start off, by sharing that, first and foremost, I think Singapore actively participated in various multilateral fora, such as the United Nations, Committee and other peaceful uses of outer space. You encompass, the Artemis Accords meetings, as well as the World Radio Communications conference WRC, organized by the UN, International Telecommunications Union.
(16:53):
Jonathan HungITU. So regionally, we actively engage in forms such as the Asean Subcommittee on Space Technology and Applications. Of course, and the Asia Pacific Regional Space Agency Forum, or EPR for short. Singapore joined the copious in 2019, and also seeks to formulate the framework for enhancing collaboration in space technology and applications. Now all these platforms are critical.
(17:19):
Jonathan HungWe hosted some of these sessions in convene them, for example, we hosted the 33rd, meeting of the Asean Scotia in 2024. Just last year. It was an important platform because we, we, we helped to actually bring together, the region and also brought them overseas, to the International Astronautical, Congress right after. So we signed the Artemis Accords in 2022 as the 18th signatory.
(17:44):
Jonathan HungAnd we believe that the accords provides a useful framework for guiding cooperation on space exploration, right. To ensure its conduct, in a safe, sustainable and transparent manner. Singapore supports the voluntary implementation of the guidelines on the long term sustainability of Outer Space, or the LCS guidelines and support of the international community is important to preserve the long term sustainability of space for emerging spacefaring and small states.
(18:12):
Jonathan HungThis last part also is important because we fall within that bucket, and we have to ensure that that I think that common norms is preserved. Space is a global resource and really doesn't just belong to only the bigger chains. It's also important for the voices of small countries and emerging spacefaring nations to be heard, and their rights also to be preserved.
(18:32):
Jonathan HungSo actually, collective space governance is crucial right? Amongst all the existing fora. Right? As more players, more public, private, you know, players emerge, and these important dialogs, do have to take place. I think most importantly, these conversations at this fora is critical where everybody, I guess, has a chance to be heard. Perspectives are heard and heeded.
(18:53):
Jonathan HungRight. And these institutional frameworks, we certainly adapt and certainly also evolve over time.
Nishan DegnarainYeah. Well, I can see, you know, it's very powerful for for, you know, nations like Singapore, which aren't as large as perhaps, you know, the US or China with, you know, different kind of value stakes to come in and be this, this, this, this convening of this house, you, this neutral, platform to, to have these discussions.
(19:19):
Nishan DegnarainBecause when we start to see all the trends such as exponential technological trend, you know, the role of artificial intelligence in advanced robotics and propulsion systems that will allow us to do more with space, the emergence of a range of private sector actors, those that are government back from certain nations to us, which are more private sector entrepreneurial from other nations, possibly even more high risk from other nations.
(19:43):
Nishan DegnarainAnd and then the the rise of new emergent space faring nations here. Several years ago, we would not have imagined that there would be, probes from, you know, nations like the UAE or Saudi, you know, Singapore, certainly there Rwanda, Nigeria, you know, a lot of other nations are now looking at space as that domain, which is essential for their economies and their, their, the, the political economy to, to also, progress.
(20:09):
Nishan DegnarainAnd so with that, it sounds as if that there is a need for evolution, there is a need for, for, for hosting or building these capabilities. And it's actually a unique position that a nation like Singapore, could take, especially with its value set around openness and collaboration. And the bridge between some of the larger, nations that that might be their mission.
(20:33):
Jonathan HungIt's a it's a fair point. I just thought I also add that, about one of the, I guess, advantages of, being a small nation is one thing, but also to some degree, we are we are newer to some of these international fora. I mean, we want to actively contribute and we try to to bring, some capabilities to bear as well, or use a different school of thought.
Jonathan HungPolicy perspectives are important, and we certainly align with our partners and or member states, on key policy. So across, for example, LPs, you know, various other, sustainability guidelines and support, infrastructure that all countries should, should, should support in general. But to substantiate some of our positions as well, or is to bring to bear some of these capabilities.
(21:15):
Jonathan HungYou talked about one thing we are doing more of is also doing more technical exchanges. Right? So although, you know, a lot of these traditional platforms have been very policy centric, I see a lot more technical exchanges happening on the sidelines. Right. And in fact, more and more so that sometimes they become more frontline conversations. Singapore is home to a lot of technical research and talent.
(21:36):
Jonathan HungInstitutes of higher learning and research institutes are not bad. You know, I think they do have a decent, showing across the world. And this is something that we try to advocate. We bring up our technical experts to these platforms so that they also can provide perspectives. You know, it's important that these capabilities and technologies are well understood.
Jonathan HungI think that is a base, again, for people to, to develop new ideas and perspectives, and through our initiatives such as, we launched, one and a half months ago, our Earth Observation Initiative brings together. It brings together a community of Earth observation peers, partners, non-governmental organizations, or basically any organization that has challenges that space satellite technology can solve, bring this community together and solve real world problems.
(22:23):
Jonathan HungSo this whole initiative, with our founding, you know, 15 members and partners, we are proliferating and sharing that, hey, you know, if you need, downstream applications or analysis of satellite data for a whole range of needs from disaster management to disease monitoring, food security, food resiliency, or climate watch. If all the research institutes have those capabilities and and analysis already done, we are happy to share that and bring it to bear, deploy our assets to support, countries, you know, in particular within maybe the equatorial belt.
(22:55):
Jonathan HungFirst, because that's where we are, and also the larger Asia-Pacific region. So things like that is, examples of capabilities or initiatives that we would like to wholeheartedly share with the community. Again, so that we can bridge the gap between, actual understanding of what can be done and delivered together with closing the gap with policy decisions.
(23:16):
Nishan DegnarainThink that's fascinating because, yeah, it is this unique time in the world right now. And you talk about whether it's access to open source protocols or models or data sets, as well as the need for, for trust as well. What they've since, but the importance of soft levers, it's something that we're hearing more and more about.
(23:36):
Nishan DegnarainIt's not just about the, the hard influence of regulation that's there, but the technical exchange, the educational exchange, the awareness that, you could have these free flowing dialogs between private sector operators. Not that's not around collusion, but it's about, technical, you know, sharing education, awareness exchanges, particularly at a time where we're seeing this kind of fragmentation, the, the, the defunding of certain Earth observation institutes from, you know, that's the which had some of the largest budgets.
(24:08):
Nishan DegnarainIt does create new opportunities for emerging space nations to step in and develop capabilities along the entire value chain, from observation to modeling, to end use applications like insurance, for example. That could that could, actually fare well for nations like Singapore to step in and expand, that that space economist.
(24:30):
Jonathan HungNo, certainly I think these are areas, and adjacencies, as you mentioned, that are critical. I mean, Singapore is also a finance hub. You know, we we, we want to make sure that we, we play to our strengths. As I mentioned earlier, securing that sector, also to some degree requires space technologies, like for example, I mean, satellite communications, is a mainstay.
Jonathan HungAnd we have to think a little further as well. We have companies that play in the quantum key distribution space, you know, securing, next generation, communications via quantum technologies. Right? So a lot of our local company, spectrum, actually is developing those quantum payloads, and they themselves, you know, work together with our banks, you know, our, our, our authorities within the finance sector and not just within Singapore, cross-border, because it really is cross-border, you know, intercontinental, transactions that will require security in the future.
(25:20):
Jonathan HungAnd this then applies to any kind of sensitive data that I guess, you know, data privacy is going to be the heart and soul of what we discuss, I guess, in the next decade or so. And those, intercontinental platforms. Right, require satellite technologies. Right. So these are things that we try and build grown up. We know there is a market need, end of the day, and we try our very best to encourage, such advances, even though at early stage and this requires, again, heavy lifting from the government from day one.
(25:47):
Jonathan HungWe're prepared to support this. The National Space Office, actually disperses, funds through our space technology and development program. Fund is a fund is, is an R&D, fund that goes to our companies and also to our institutes of higher learning for, for next generation capabilities. We announced, again just recently, earlier this year, a top up of, 60 million SGD.
(26:11):
Jonathan HungAnd that adds on to the earlier $150 million that we pumped into our sector for R&D. Over the last five years or so. These things are, areas that we put in, and we ensure that our public private sector partnerships not just do work within domestic Singapore, but we highly encourage them to also find, like minded partners overseas.
(26:33):
Jonathan HungRight. Bridges that we as Austin has actually driven, and partnered. We have countries that we have, mou space with their space agency counterparts. Actually does quite a diverse field. And, we certainly encourage both researchers, industry and all partners around them, to, to, to support these efforts.
Miki SodeBefore we wrap up, I have a question. Earlier you mentioned about your involvement to SDC as well as, enforcing and encouraging the future workforce is one of the important, component or the tenant of of Austin. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
(27:14):
Jonathan HungWell, capacity building is important. It stretches across the whole realm. Depends on who you ask. You know, some people say it's university, that, you know, sap goes all the way down to our, our preschoolers, you know, but certainly we look at the, the, the universities, I use the tertiary institutions first, we try to support, all kinds of innovation that they are proposing to us very well, ideas.
(27:38):
Jonathan HungBut we encourage them all. We have universities today and, even high schools that, have launched satellites, those things, already, I think to us, the, the early stages of, of building up the talent pipeline, we tried to go earlier as well. Outreach is important. But most importantly, I think we want to drive awareness and allow a lot of our young students access to industry.
(27:59):
Jonathan HungWe have a vibrant startup ecosystem, which also helps, to be quite honest. The kids today don't listen to me. They listen to the startup founders in tech. For those that are, very excited about space, that actually they are the first to evangelize it. We do encourage, those activities. And I think it's important that, again, as a national organization and national space office, we provide, not just real world problems for them to solve, but programs for them to be part of.
(28:26):
Jonathan HungAnd these programs are not just space programs, right? We want them to understand that space cuts across all of the adjacency. So we spoke about, and this is something that we, we bring to the table and expose our younger generations to. Right. That space actually is cross-cutting, diffused us into a range of industries. So, you know, there are good jobs, you know, in the space, domain.
Jonathan HungAnd we encourage everybody to strive for it. So these are things that we do encourage on a day to day basis.
(28:51):
Miki SodeYeah. And I could tell that how we talked about adjacency too. But like from activities like that from either high school or earlier, aspiring students could feel that there is a role for them to play in a future space. And then that is encouraging for them to participate more, study more, and then, make a contribution to not only to Singapore's space program, but to the global, economy as well.
(29:20):
Jonathan HungSo that's right. No, you're right. We don't focus stress on. Well, to be honest, there's no pure space engineer. A lot of our satellite engineers come from, you know, a mixed bag of engineering, right? I mean, electronics, mechanical systems engineers, you know, so it's across the board, the sciences, you know, a space program requires, you know, the best in many fields.
(29:41):
Jonathan HungYou need good communicators. You need need policy legal experts. You need medical professionals. So actually, to us, we see space as really, a pinnacle, right, of, of of success for a lot of these, young students. And, again, the talent pipeline, if they can certainly achieve what they're doing in their, in their domains, we will be welcomed into contributing the space sector for the technical guys.
(30:03):
Jonathan HungI think being in Stem is important again, supports our whole Stem foundation in Singapore that allows that technical, innovation expertise to be born out of and supporting our global economy. But whatever they are doing, I think it's important for us to encourage and as we have seen, the the space programs, especially the larger complex partnerships that we want to be part of, international programs, require people from all walks of life.
(30:28):
Jonathan HungYeah. So this is something that we want to encourage, so that we get the best, options, I guess, and that we can, we can provide again for our, our next generation of of of budding scientists, engineers, you know, space, entrepreneurs.
Nishan DegnarainFor the exit. I mean, Justin, I feel we could we could go on forever. We've come to the end of our time. But this has been a fascinating discussion, a fascinating insight to how Singapore thinks about, that space economy. I mean, we covered, topics from, you know, the the importance of partnership, the role of government, which is particularly unique in Singapore, that public private partnership, which is very special.
(31:08):
Nishan DegnarainThink about the value system. You know, about rules based order, the importance of the private sector, the peaceful use of space and the various, of course, at Singapore aside, which is important, that it shows, the orderly development of the space economy is something which which is crucial for Singapore. But also, I think internationally as well.
Nishan DegnarainIt it's great to see a mine there traveling internationally. You know, you touched on the the sophistication of the programs and what your, the national, space Office does in terms of setting the right R&D program, investing in R&D. But, you know, thinking about the adjacencies with other sectors like finance, provided that guided, inflows to some of the early stage, startups in the space economy, which is important as well to look at, you know, with maritime aviation, finance, for example.
(31:56):
Nishan DegnarainAnd, you know, I hear you talked about the importance of a long term workforce and you said, well, the sophisticated there's no one particular degree that will lead you into a space entrepreneurship role. And so it really is the the pinnacle of talent and skills to get there. And I think, what we've heard from you today, John said, is, is almost like a pinnacle of space and government coming together.
(32:16):
Nishan DegnarainIn your experience working with industry and sophisticated policymaking to get to this level of a very sophisticated, very enlightened, space agency. So I think there's a lot more that we could explore. But unfortunately for the today's podcast, we run out of times, with I would just like to say thank you, Jonathan, for for joining us on today's, podcast.
Miki SodeThank you so much.
Jonathan HungThank you. Thank you. Mickey, thank you for having me. Thank you very much.
(32:39):
Nishan DegnarainThank you.
Nishan Degnarain
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