Conquering Competition Anxiety & Mental Blocks With Rebecca Smith

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the Shift Show, where mynumber one goal is to bring you
the tools, ideas and the latestscience to help you change
gymnast's lives.
My name is Dave Tilley, todayon the podcast.
Today we have a repeat fanfavorite on the podcast.
That is Rebecca Smith.
Rebecca Smith is a mentalperformance coach for gymnastics
and she really is the go-tosource that I have for mental
blocks and anxiety and kind ofall of the performance aspects

(00:33):
we know are really important foryoung athletes kind of
particularly as we approachcompetitive season.
So I wanted to have Rebeccaback on because we are quickly
approaching the time when many,many people start to get, you
know, really worried about doingtheir routines, getting their
meat stuff together and kind oftraveling and the pressure that
comes with competition season.
So we have a great episode here.
We talk about these things righthead on.
We talk about mental blocks andthe fear that come up when

(00:55):
somebody starts to have tocompete under a pressure
situation with a bunch of peoplewatching or at a meet.
We talk about competitionanxiety and how to normalize
that with young kids, but alsowhat are some practical, easy to
use steps that people can useto manage their nerves around
big routines or around big meets, and how we can slowly help to
educate coaches and parents andgymnasts themselves on ways to
successfully work throughcompetition, anxiety or mental

(01:17):
blocks or fears that people havein gymnastics that are very,
very common.
So when this podcast comes out,rebecca is starting to promote
a very popular free webinarseries she's going to do to kind
of talking people through thesethings on again competition,
anxiety, mental blocks, fear.
So in my personal opinion, Ifeel it's a must listen.
I feel like everyone ingymnastics gymnasts, coaches,
parents needs to understand whythese things are so important

(01:39):
and that they're normal and thatwe can help people through them
.
So there's a link below in theshow notes that, whatever you're
doing, if you're in the car,please don't do it now, but down
below there's a show notes linkthat you can go and you can
sign up and you can registercompletely free.
She's gonna offer so much greatinformation on all these topics
that many people ask me aboutand I'm sure people ask her
about too as well.
So make sure you sign up withall her resources because she

(02:05):
has a loads of great stuff thatis available available to
everybody and I feel it couldjust be used more frequently,
but it's not talked about asoften.
So for this podcast we breakthrough all the things I talked
about lots of coping strategiesfor in the gym, routines, meets,
pressure, mental blocks, stufflike that.
So very popular past episodesthat we've done Rebecca, so I
want to have her back on in lieuof competition season, so I

(02:25):
hope you all enjoy this episode.
Good to go, rebecca back inaction.
Fan favorite on the podcast.
How are you?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
I love your podcast.
I'm doing great.
It's always a pleasure to wakeup early on the West Coast to
hang out with you, Dave.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, it happens every time.
Although Sorry, I'm so sorry,it happens every time Although
you got a half hour extra ofsleep, you said before.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I did, so I might be a little sharper today.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah.
So just to set the context, Imean, um, the last.
I think you've been on twoother times, I want to say a
couple of years apart and everytime it seems to either come at
the right moment or it comeswith the right demand.
And, like it's one of the mostdownloaded episodes I get so
many emails about you know, thiswas great.
Thanks so much.
This is what we need, more likekind of I don't know.
I think you and I and others doa good job of taking dorky
things and giving practical,easy to use solutions.
I think that's one of our partof our job as educators.
So, yeah, the last one thatwent up on mental blocks seem to

(03:13):
be extremely beneficial and hada lot of practical advice,
which I thinkamp.
But we are closely approachingcompetition season and I can
already feel the level oftension arising in the clinic or
when I consult with peopleabout, like we're not ready,
what are we going to do?
How do we get ready?
Like all that stuff is sostressful, so perfect timing to

(03:35):
have you back on and help fixeveryone's problems.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
I mean, yes, I don't claim to fix anything, but I can
help you turn your strugglesinto your superpowers.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
For sure, yeah.
So what's going on on your end?
Do you feel like that's thesame thing?
Are you busier now?
Do you have more of thoseemails coming in that people are
worried?
What's the pulse for you?

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes, at Complete Performance Coaching, we
lovingly call November nervousNovember, because everybody's
starting to freak out.
I mean I've gotten the emailsfrom the mom of coach, says if
she doesn't have all her skillsby this date, then she can't
compete at all, which I'm likeoh yeah, okay, uh, interesting,

(04:16):
you know, it's just all thecoaches are like well, now we
have to put more motivation.
We've got to light a fire underthese kids which, unfortunately
, if you're dealing with a kidwho's high anxiety, highly
sensitive, highly intelligent,those fires lit just turn into
big threats, which actuallycauses the adolescent brain to
start shutting down and recedingand getting more timid and

(04:36):
tentative.
So, biologically, they'restarting to shut down, although
the expectations are risinghigher.
So it's like this perfect stormof kids freaking out tears in
the car and parents being likequick, something we need to fix
this so poor coaches areprobably getting all the
meetings too, with the parentsof like what do we need to do?

(04:58):
And sure?

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think I think, to start on
that, I think the last time wetalked, a good job that we did
was balancing, like, the empathyof the coach's point of view
and also, like you know, theyhave 10 to 15 kids with parents
who have goals.
They got to get ready.
For me, I understand totallythe real life of being a coach
and trying to help people withgood intent, but I also think we
have to appreciate, as coachesor as non, you know, outside the

(05:21):
gym people appreciate theparents, and Eva one time opened
my mind up with a slot.
She was like frustrated withjust all of us being too chaotic
and then I was like, well, wehave stuff to do.
And she was like, well, right,well, think about the parent who
picks their kid up after a longday of gym and work, goes home
to have dinner and they want totalk and the kid is just crying
at the dinner table becausethey're missing a skill or

(05:41):
someone put a huge likeultimatum on them that they have
to have their series by thisdate to compete like.
And then imagine like thisloving, awesome parent who's
just having this kid melt downin front of them and their heart
is bleeding because they justwant their kid to be happy and
excited.
You can then empathize with aparent of like okay, well, I
gotta like, I gotta schedule ameeting and I gotta like, what
could we do?
Private lessons, like what dowe have to do to fix this, to

(06:02):
help you?
It's.
And then parents come in hotright.
So coaches then get defensivebecause the parents coming in
hot about the kid being notready.
And I think oftentimes youdon't see the other side right.
The parent doesn't see thislike very stressed out, very
chaotic coaching practicesituation trying to get people
ready to not have the meat beawkward, and the coach does not
see the kid crying at dinner andnot being able to sleep and
being upset because they'recoming home from practice with

(06:23):
this extreme amount of stress.
So I just want to set the stageon that there's both sides of
the fence are very empatheticand need to be.
So that's what I see, cause Ikind of straddle the bridge
between all these areas,consulting, you know what I mean
.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, and fortunately I was the gymnast, I also was
the coach who did things wrong,and I am now a mom of a
nine-year-old high anxiety child.
So it's yeah, there are threesides to the story and every
single side is really stressfulpotentially.
I mean, when your kid ismelting down, you're like how do

(06:57):
I make it stop?
How do I make it stop?
It's like this thing inside ofyou, that's like I need to fix
this now.
And then coaches have.
You know, it's natural to havethe ego wrapped up in.
How are my kids performing?
Are they like?
I have done my planning, I haveset out my, my system.
And then this one outlier overhere.
It's easy to be like, well,there must be something wrong

(07:19):
with them, because everyone elseis doing fine, whereas you know
there is responsibility foreveryone.
And then the final piece, theparents.
When I started training theparents first, it was amazing.
We needed to support the kidsway less, because the way that
the parents you know, quoteunquote fix the problem changes

(07:42):
the whole scenario.
It's almost always when a kidstays stuck in a mental block
long term.
There is a coaching issue, aparenting issue or both.
An issue is like you love yourkid and you're trying your best,
but you're just beingineffective typically.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Sure Right Wrong tools for the job, so to speak,
and I think it's maybe a goodpoint to highlight and double
click on something you saidthere which is, like you know,
your child is more of a ananxious person or a sensitive
person or a little, a little bitmore.
You know there's there's a hugebell curve that exists in my
coaching experience and thishappens on the um coaching staff
side and I consult with largerteams or colleges but also on
the gymnast side which isthere's this bell curve of some

(08:17):
kids.
Most kids right in the middleare kind of not anxious.
They're kind of not like.
They have this like flow backand forth, of like when
competition comes they get alittle more riled up, but
they're managing that.
But they also have this likechill kind of mode they do
that's probably the middle ofthe bell curve.
But then there's extremes of thebell curve.
Whereas one person kind ofneeds that high intensity, rah,
rah, get amped up, reallyexcited, they love that high

(08:40):
energy and they're more likeathletes.
I mean, I have met Olympianswho are like this, who are like
calm, introverted, no noise,headphones on by themselves.
They're not in the rah-rah modeand both are okay.
I've literally met goldmedalists who are the most amped
up on the planet Earth.
I think John Horton comes tomind, right?
And then I think of people whoare more like the calculated
surgeon I don't know why focusedand so in her bubble with her

(09:01):
headphones on she's not outthere screaming top of her lungs
and you have, like Asher Hong,for example, right On one side.
You have Steve Medarosic on theother side, right.
There are differentpersonalities on that bell curve
of who responds better tostress, ramp up competition,
anxiety and for anybodylistening parents, coaches or
the medical providers we have tounderstand what personality
type and what kind of like moldwe're dealing with to more

(09:23):
effectively help that athlete.
Right, so you could have been afather who grew up with, like
the baseball football, rah-rahmentality, and that's what
you're used to.
But your son even, not evenyour daughter, but your son is
like the quiet, took the mom'spersonality, introvert.
Yelling in your son's face andgetting him excited, even if you
mean well, is not going to gowell, and I think coaches also
feel that too as well.
I mean, that's what I observe.

(09:44):
I'm not sure if you feel thesame way with people you work
with.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Oh, a hundred percent .
I mean I love you formerathlete parents, I love you so
much.
And I mean these are theparents that it's the absolute
hardest to to get to, becausethey're like well, this worked
for me, right?
I was a D one collegiateathlete, so this is just how it
goes.
And not to mention thegeneration change.

(10:07):
You know, from when I wascompeting to when these kids are
competing, thank goodness,gymnastics really evolved.
I think youth sports evolved.
I mean it's gotten morecompetitive but there's more
education, thanks to people likeyou.
But every kid is different andso there is no one size fits all

(10:27):
mental training strategy.
Some kids are visual, some kidsare kinesthetic, some kids are
audio.
So someone who is not visualwhatsoever and has ADHD, if you
tell them to sit and visualizetheir routines, it's going to be
like what I can't, it doesn'twork, that doesn't help me.
So then they're like well,mental training doesn't work,

(10:48):
because my coach told me to sitand visualize and I couldn't do
it, or I saw myself falling.
So I think you know, anytimethat you're coaching individuals
, you have to tailor it.
Some kids are going to need morespots, some kids are going to
need more drills.
Some kids are going to needthat push of like get up and go,
that, like what you said, thekids who need the cortisol, that

(11:08):
the kid who really thrives onbeing pushed needs that.
The kid who is high anxietymaybe, like, leans more toward
depression or you know, just alittle bit more delicate that
kid needs to stay on low beamfor two extra weeks to build
their reassurance before theymove up.
So if you've got, you know, onesize fits all mental training

(11:29):
and one size fits all physicaltraining, like you said, that
bell curve is going to leavesome kids straggling right.
Struggling.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, and I think, just as we try to drop in like
practical nuggets of advicethroughout the way, I think from
my point of view there are twoways to go about this.
One is you have to have aseparate non-gymnastics setting
meeting to just touch base withpeople in a private setting
about, like, how are you, how'syour life, what's going on.
We used to do these like twotimes throughout the season
right at the end of season andthen halfway through, like right

(11:56):
after the holidays, beforeseason started, just to have a
15 minute meeting of like howare you, what's going on, how's
your life, have your goalschanged?
How do you feel about skills?
How do you feel about routines?
Are there things that, like,you're nervous about Almost
always?
I've never really met a kid whofeels comfortable talking about
something they're really nervousabout or something that's on
their mind in a group setting,because the social pressure is
so high when you're in highschool or middle school or

(12:17):
whatever.
So sometimes when you getsomebody into a more you know,
one-on-one or one-on-threesetting, we'd do a couple of
coaches with a kid and just askthese things in private.
You can get a lot more out ofthem in terms of their style of
learning, their goals, theirfears, what's on their mind, and
that is probably the best placeto ask, like and Mo, by the way
.
Like, how do you learn best?
Like, do you want me to showyou videos on an iPhone of you?
Do you want to watch a famous?

(12:40):
Some things?
You want me to talk you throughthe technique?
You have to do it.
I think like it's a lot to trackwith your athletes, but knowing
how to actually get thosepieces of information are really
helpful.
And the second piece ofpractical advice is when you
give assignments, offerdifferent options for what to do
between turns for feedback.
So I personally loved having ascreen up with a TiVo loop that
was 25 seconds delayed so theycould just get out, chalk up and

(13:02):
look, but seconds delayed sothey could just get out, chalk
up and look.
But some kids don't want towatch themselves, they want to
go do a drill on the side.
They want to go, you know,watch their teammate do a
similar skill, and so if youhave different ways to take time
between turns to getcorrections, it helps serve
their individual need or theirindividual style of learning.
And that personally, for me,made like a massive difference
in coaching was not like ironingeveryone into, like you're
doing this drill right away,you're like you have to do it

(13:22):
this way, like there are manyways to people all to get to the
same style of correction, youknow.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
And I think the quicker you give kids autonomy
in their sport, the more thatthey're going to develop
internal confidence.
Because a lot of these littlelike robo children who are like
yes sir, yes sir, yes sir, theyactually kind of stop listening
to their fear response.
They don't listen to theirinjuries as much they're like if
my coach says go, I got to go.

(13:49):
And what happens with thosekids often is that they get to a
higher level and then theystart to freeze up because they
don't.
They don't know how to listento their fear response and
respond to it in a way thatreassures their brain, reassures
that their technique is solid,asks for help.
You know, these kids are.
They're just like sir, yes, sir.

(14:10):
And then they get stuck inlevel eight or nine and they
don't know why or how to fix it.
And it's if you can teach themat a young age to like how are
you feeling Do?
you how is your body today?
How's your mind today?
It looks like you're hesitating.
Let's, let's, figure out whatyour brain needs.
You know like, let them connectwith what they need and tell

(14:30):
you oh my gosh, that's going togive it's such a life skill for
them to be able to understandthat they're actually in the
driver's seat with their bodyand with their mind.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, and I also want to clearly delineate between,
in the beginning, between, likethe coaching situation that is,
kids are frustrated andstruggling, but they're
productive and they're doingthings and they're trying to get
the most out of the practiceand the kids that are clearly
there to try to find social outs, or they just want to kind of
cut the corners on work and notdo what is asked of them to get
ready for meets.
They kind of want to just like,do the bare minimum and then

(15:00):
compete.
That's what, unfortunately,sometimes you deal with the
younger athletes who are stillgrowing.
So I think there's a way tohave expectations and guidelines
in a very kind, polite, gentleway of like we're here to work,
you have goals, you told me,that's why we're here in general
.
So we are here, we are working.
There are ways in which we cando that, because you can still
maintain a very productivepractice right.
I think you can still getthings going without have to

(15:21):
constantly stop every twominutes and make a drill for
this person or a side station,whatever.
There's many ways to go aboutthis.
But the other thing I'd like tosay too, is that this really is
about safety, and so when peopleare you have to have a line in
the sand of when someone can orcannot compete skills for safety
.
And that is where we developedthis rule of seven, that the
week prior to a meet you have tocompete seven of whatever skill

(15:42):
you're going to want to do in ameet setting or routine setting
before you're eligible tocompete.
The parents knew it, the kidsknew it, the coaches knew it.
It was just no discussionbecause, again, it was for
safety.
It's like no, we're not goingto, like YOLO, flip a souk and
possibly land short and hurt ourankles.
You have to be here and do themand so.
But again, that can be deliveredin a kind, positive manner.
And so when you have those twothings, the cultural guidelines

(16:03):
that we're here to work, we wantto work hard, we all have goals
, and here are our barrier toentries for safety, for you to
be able to compete, it wipes alot of the table drama away of
like, oh my God, this persondoesn't want me to compete,
she's being side-eyed, blah,blah, blah.
Like, why does this personcompete?
Like, all that bullshit,frankly, is just so annoying
inside, inside of some practice,that you have hard lines in the
sand.
So that's kind of theempathetic point of view for the

(16:24):
coaches is like that has to beset in stone before, so parents
understand that you can'tblindside them the week of the
meeting.
Oh, by the way, sarah doesn'thave a giant, she's not
competing.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, yes, and and that is that is a reality.
And that's the question I getwhen I'm teaching how to work
through mental blocks forcoaches and they're like but
what about the meat schedule?
That's all fine and good thatthey need to back it up, but
like we actually have a meat, sothey have to do the skill or
don't, and and so from thatperspective, I'm like the brain

(16:53):
does not care about competitionseason.
The brain does not care thatyou know they might not be able
to do bars this weekend.
The brain only cares aboutkeeping her or him alive and
safe.
Yes.
And and it is important thesafety thing.
You know, getting them doingthose skills in practice.
Because a lot of these kids arethere, their desire rises on

(17:15):
competition day so they canchuck a skill, but ultimately
that that backfires in two ways.
A, it's not that safe, becauseif they don't have the technique
underlying that skill, that'snot going to be you know the
best, the best version of thatskill.
But also it's confusing,because if they can't do the
skill in practice and then theypull it out on Friday before,

(17:36):
and then they pull it out, theythey can't do it a warmup, but
then they chuck it in the meat.
I mean, how many kids have donethis Like it's because their
desire overrides their fear?
Right, but what this does, isit?
It teaches them oh, I canoverride my fear, I don't have
to listen to it.
So then they start like tryingto chuck stuff in practice.
They try to try to make coachhappy.

(17:58):
Again, they're not listening totheir brain.
That's saying I don't feelready for this, I need more
reassurance.
So that's when those kids getto those higher levels and get
totally stuck on four eventsbecause their brain is like
you're not listening, I'm out ofhere.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, yeah, right, and not to keep taking side
quests, but these are suchimportant topics.
Is that when you, when you getdown to cause I had this too on
the injury side, right, this isthe exact same.
November is, like you know,shin splints are starting, some
back issues are starting, sopeople are starting to get
cranky.
But I have to compete, I haveto be ready, I have to get my
routines done and you thinkabout, like okay, well, like why
, like I understand that if youhave a skill and you're just

(18:33):
nervous, but you have the scale,it's safe, you've done it
before.
Like that is a very normal partof gymnastics is being a
competition, anxiety is part ofit, and so there's definitely
this art to coaching where thereis maybe what 20% of the cases
where, like, no, you have it,you've done this skill without a
spot, you're totally safe.
We just have to get the reps inin a competition sitting for
you to get more comfortable.
It's a graded exposure, right?

(18:53):
So, like I know that there isdefinitely 20% probably of that
situation, which is, like I knowyou don't want to compete this
because you're nervous, becauseyou hate beam, but you have a
great series, it's totally safe,we just have to do it.
We just have to get in thecompetition setting.
If you, if it doesn't goperfect, you fall off, that's
fine.
We just have to get the repsand of warming up in a meet and
doing it to me, and over time,it's better.
Personally, though, when you getto the situation of, well, we

(19:14):
have to compete for this meet onSaturday, coming up, it's like
okay when a parent or a gymnastor a coach, all is like pushing
really hard to say we have tocompete, and you're like why?
Why do we have to compete rightnow?
Why do we have to do bars?
Do three events and just don'thave an all around score for the
first couple of meets and getyour technique better for a
month, and then we'll do it orwe'll change your routine.
It all comes down to the fearof judgment, fear of social

(19:47):
judgment.
So you have to do the work as aparent, as a coach, as a
gymnast, before meet season tonot let that stuff sting you
right To not care about otherpeople's opinions and what
TikTok says, but your pathtowards getting your bars to be
safe and clean, like that is themore work that I think needs to
happen before, but that is like80% of cases I see.
I'm like why can't?
Like your chin is on fire, whycan't we take two weeks off?

(20:09):
Like well, I have to compete.
It's like, dude, it's November,is January and you're a
sophomore.
There's no way like we have topush this this hard.
So I think from the mental sideand physical it happens
together.
But it all comes down to thecultural and the social stuff
that if you accept like okay,it's just not ready, and like
we'll be ready in two months,like that's okay, like that's
fine, like we'll get there, it'sa big sigh of relief for the
gymnast sometimes.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Absolutely.
And then you know it makes youthink about the places that have
policies of if you can't dofour events, you can't compete
at all.
Right.
And I think, okay, if they'vegot three beautiful events, they
can feel so confident competingand they have one skill that
their brain is currentlyfreezing them up on, even though
they're totally capable ofdoing it, how does that increase

(20:52):
confidence to then, you know,mom paid for the hotel, mom paid
for the meet fees, mom's mad Uh, the kid is left out.
There's this socialostracization.
They don't get to go.
They I mean talk about threatsto the brain.
The brain is then like I'm notgood enough, I don't fit in.
All the adolescent wants inlife is to fit in.

(21:13):
That's the number one drivingfactors to feel like you're part
of something and so then you'rebeing removed from it because
there's this one skill.
So then that creates all thisemotional energy around that one
skill, which makes that feeleven more threatening.
But I do want to mention therewas one thing that you said like
the kids who just sort of likechill and practice, don't really

(21:33):
want to throw skills, don'treally want to do it, and then
they go to, they go to meets.
I want to touch on this becausethere is a really big
misconception around motivationversus fear.
Now, if a kid that's typicallythe kid who's very highly
capable of doing these skills.
They've done them before For me.
I had one beam with this stupidback walkover, but then I

(21:56):
couldn't do it in practicebecause I was terrified.
So I didn't know how tocommunicate.
I would just.
Basically my coach was like godo five on a high beam, Rebecca,
and I'd get up there and I'd belike okay, I'm going to do this
, you know, I'm going to, I gotthis, I got.
I was like you know, psychmyself up.
Okay, I'm going, I'm going, I'mgoing, Can you give me a
countdown?
They give me a countdown.
I didn't go Give me anothercountdown.

(22:25):
Okay, I'm good, I'm good, I'mgood, Someone needs the beam?
Ah, okay.
Then I get up and I'm like Igot this.
And then boom, I hit a wall.
It's like I physically can'tmake myself go.
So I get off the beam, I letsomeone else go and I'm like
okay, I don't know how tocommunicate.
I actually don't know what ishappening or what I need.
If somebody asked me, what areyou afraid of?
I would say I don't know.
All I know is it's not working.
But then, from the coach'sperspective, you've got 13 kids

(22:47):
on beams and you see that thisone hasn't done a single back
walkover all day, Like, what areyou doing?
This is the skill that you need, and if you don't do it, I
don't know what to tell you.
Meanwhile, the kid's like, ohyeah, I'm going to go, I'm going
to go.
And then they get up there.
Same thing they don't go, theyhop off, or they they freeze.
And then the 20 minutes hasgone by and not a single back
walkover has happened.

(23:15):
So it's easy to think like thatkid in the in the chalk bin at
bars is just not trying.
But what's actually happeningfor this type of kid is that
they feel completely stuck, theydon't know what to do and
they're just wanting the clockto run out so they can go to an
event where they can do stuff,sure.
So it's easy to be like they'rechoosing not to go.
I hear that so much.
They're not, they're not trying, they're there, she's refusing
to do it.
But that implies more of anelement of choice, where this is

(23:38):
a subconscious thing, thatthey're hitting a physical,
mental wall that they don't knowhow to climb, and in that
moment they need an intervention.
But they don't know what it is,and neither does the coach.
So everybody's just like, oh,the kid's not trying.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Got it.
Yeah, I'm glad you clarifiedthat.
I think maybe what comes tomind for me in that situation is
, like, the level of I don'twant to say caring is what comes
to mind.
But if there's someone who,like, doesn't have their skills
and is working their tail off,they're frustrated, they're
they're trying to do drills,it's just not working.
You can clearly see they'relike having a tough time and
they care about it.
I think that's the person we'retalking about, which is
someone's like.

(24:12):
Okay, we just need to find adifferent angle technique.
Something needs to changebecause this is not working.
I think the maybe it's not even20, it's 10 of kids.
They're like, literally justlike social butterflies and they
, oh yeah, I just don't have myskills and like whatever, I'm
just not going to compete andit's like, okay, well, like why
are you here?
Like, cause we have stuff to doand like, I understand you're,
you're don't have these skills.
But yeah, maybe there's adelineation there between, like,
the person who is socialbutterfly, distracting, avoiding

(24:35):
any work, like the plague,cause they just want to be there
and socialize, and they'redistracting to the kid that is
really having a tough time.
You can see they're frustratedand they want to fix it, it's
just not happening, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
This is typically your perfectionist.
This is your, the one who worksso hard and doesn't cheat on
conditioning and really wants todo everything.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
I have capital.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
A yes.
When you see that kid in thechalk bin for 20 minutes, that's
the time to go how's it going?
What are we working on, what'sgoing on?
And so, for me, I communicatedthrough just standing on the
beam crying.
That was the only way I knewhow, and they'd be like whoa,
what's happening?
I'd be like I don't know.
So that's why the mostimportant thing kids can learn

(25:18):
to deal with fear is how tocommunicate.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, okay, perfect.
This is a great segue, becauseI want to like get away from pie
in the sky culture stuff andlike, okay, what do we do to
help these kids?
So let's start with.
I guess we're on the coachingtopic, so maybe we can start
with the coaches first and thengo to gymnast, or no?
What do you think is best?
Like, what order, gymnast,coach, parent who should we talk
about first?

Speaker 2 (25:35):
I mean, they're all.
They're all valuable, but Ialways like to talk about the
Understanding the kid'sperspective is so important.
So let's say you've got a kidwho, kid they can tumble, and
all of a sudden they can't.
Like I can't flip, I'm freezingup, I'm balking, or I'm running
past the vault, or you know,like whoa, where are your skills

(25:56):
?
Typically, the first thing thecoaches do is they are like try
harder, do more, try harder, go,you're fine, you don't need a
spot, you don't need a mat, justdo the skill.
And if that's happening morethan a couple of times, like I,
like a two balk rule.
If you are balking twice onsomething, it means that your

(26:16):
brain is sending you a messagethat you don't feel ready yet
today.
It doesn't matter, you did ityesterday, it doesn't matter,
you one beam with it.
We have to take it one day at atime and get right in the
moment and go okay, what can youdo?
This is my favorite question.
I want kids to ask themselvesthis question.
I want coaches to ask theirkids what can you do?
Instead of what are you afraidof which they don't know, what

(26:37):
can you do?
So for me I would be like Idon't know because I wasn't very
self-aware, but I don't knowbecause I wasn't very self-aware
, but then my coach could belike can you go?
Can you go do a couple ofpretty ones on the low beam?
Yes, I can.
Okay, what if we stuck a couplemats under the beam?
Do you think you could go?
Yeah, I could probably go.
So those are.
You want to?
Instead of focusing on theproblem and what's not working,
and try to push harder on what'snot working, find something

(27:00):
that will work because that'sgoing to give them that
experience of.
Find something that will workbecause that's going to give
them that experience of.
Oh, I just did a back walk overon a beam.
That felt safe.
Okay, I can do this, and thatups confidence.
So there's this huge fear oftaking steps back.
It's like coaches don't want todo it.
We have been doing this for 900months.

(27:22):
You do not need a spot, youdon't need a mat blah, blah,
blah.
This for 900 months, you do notneed a spot, you don't need a
mat blah, blah, blah.
But it's the most efficient wayto get a kid going on the
surface.
You want them on is to say,where can you do it?
And you go, fire off a few good, safe, consistent ones and
everyone takes this huh, thisexhale, and then you're back to
where you were.
So that I mean the second thata kid can go.

(27:44):
Ooh, I'm feeling off today.
I think I need a little extrasupport.
I'm going to go and talk to mycoach before I start doing these
and the coach is like okay,let's do that drill, Sure, I
will stand there for you.
It's like not rocket science.
And then the kid has a positiveexperience and then off they go.

(28:07):
This is literally how youeliminate mental blocks in a gym
is by helping kids learn whatdo I need right now and
encouraging them to tell coaches.
And then coaches areopen-minded and it doesn't mean
that your 15 year old is nowrunning your workout and
choosing every drill they everdo, but it means that they're
like coach, I really want to beable to do this, but I I feel

(28:27):
like I need to start on tumbletrack today, or I think if I did
one of these over here I'd feela lot better.
And then the final piece iscoach says okay, go for it, or
that Matt's not available.
What if we do this instead?

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Sure yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
I love this.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
I love this framework right Cause it's practical and
I would say I'll add on a layerof.
I mean, many times I think likelike flyaways and maybe beam
series come to mind most.
But the only effective likealgorithm getting to that I've
found is like someone tap tap,nothing happens, right, tap tap,
nothing happens.
Like classic flyaway.
And you're like, okay, likewhat are you scared of?
Like name name for me, exactlywhat you're scared of.

(29:03):
Like I'm scared of hitting myshins on the bar and dumping it
to my head and then being reallyembarrassed in front of
everybody with giant shinbruises.
You go, you know what.
I'd be nervous about that too.
You know like that's definitelya nerve wracking thing.
And I think in the coach's lens,when you're trying to offer
solutions, you say like okay,well, like, how would you hit
the bar?
Like tell me what would have tohappen for you to hit the bar.

(29:23):
And you it's an educationalprocess Like, well, I'd have to
have to close my shoulders a lot, I'd have to not tap at all and
just do the scoop and dump andI'd probably have to have my
head just whipping out likecrazy.
I got very, very accurate.
That's exactly how you hit thebar right.
So the opposite of that.
How do you not hit the bar?
Like well, I should probablykeep my ears covered.
I should probably tap reallyhard in the back.
I should look at my toes when Ilet go.
You're like, brilliant, thoseare great drills that we can

(29:45):
work on and you send somebody toyour point, to a level of
success that they can have.
For some kids that's going to beliterally just like three
separate drills and then at oneversion that's on a low bar.
For some kids it's it's the lowmat, like okay, I got to keep
my ears covered, I got to watchthe end of the beam.
I have to really make sure Ipush my shoulders open and you
get technical cues that are forthe reason that they are scared

(30:07):
and those become the things thatthey can use to build up that
ladder.
It might go all the way backdown to literally a tumble track
back handspring until they do15 of them right where over the
course of three days, they feelconfident.
Then it's the medium beam allthe way back up and you're
moving up and down.
But I think those technicalreasons for why somebody might
be fearful and how to correctthose is a nice I don't know a
combined union between what thegymnast feels and what a coach

(30:28):
thinks needs to happen for it togo away.
So I totally get thatperspective as a coaches.
But, like, if you have thisjust murky, ambiguous, sometimes
it's like, well, I actuallydon't know what I'm afraid of
and they don't name what they'reafraid of.
It's hard to help sometimes.
You know, and that's just myperspective from a gymnast and
coach.
I'm not sure if that's accurateor you feel differently about
that.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, and that's such a good distinction because, um
so just to talk about, likebreaking it down technically,
dave Diggle, who does a lot ofchalk and draw out the skill on
the mats in the gym.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Hand gymnastics is the best you know.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, oh, yeah.
But.
And so I have kids get a pieceof paper and draw a terrible
stick figure version of youdoing that flyaway.
And so they do their little,all their little, like, okay, my
body's here and I'm archingdown and blah, blah, blah, like
so they get all the littlepieces and then I go, okay,
what's missing?
There's always somethingmissing and it's usually the
part that's scary.
They actually don't even drawit, like it's the part where

(31:27):
they go, where they let go.
It's like that's not there, andthen they're just landing Like
there's this missing part of theframework in their mind.
So then I'm like, okay, hold on, let's finish the drawing,
let's get all the pieces.
What's, what is your?
What are your shoulders doing?
Where's your head?
And they're drawing theirlittle stick figures.
And I go, great, okay, now wehave a full blueprint of what
this skill is supposed to be.

(31:47):
Circled apart, that's feelssketchy.
Show me exactly what feels outof control, or like you don't
know what you're going to do, oryou lose the image in your mind
and then that's essentially thesection they need to drill.
I mean, that's like exactlywhat you just said.
You're like, okay, and whathappens is, if you have an

(32:12):
incomplete mental blueprint,like you have been.
We've learned this skill,you've done a million drills,
your brain has built thisblueprint and then a section
kind of goes missing.
That's like the brain's, it'slike I don't trust this.
So we're going to delete thissection, we're going to freeze
up right here so that you don'thave to be in danger of the
unknown over there in thatincomplete mental blueprint.
So those blank spots get full offeelings.

(32:32):
That's where, like, it feelsweird, it feels off, I, I, it
feels scary, I feel anytime thatthere's feelings entering the
skill that means there's a piecemissing.
So they get in there, theydrill that you know, let go and
drop.
They do that low bar flyawaywhere the coach is getting them
over.
They get extremely clear onwhat should my body be doing.

(32:54):
They look at videos ofthemselves and coaches like, no,
not this, this.
Then they build out thatblueprint and they can focus in
on the technique.
So there's no room for allthose feelings.
But it takes both the awarenessand then also the drills and
the patience and the low bar toget that blueprint built back up
.
But that's why sometimes kidswho have done a skill for five

(33:16):
years can't do it and that's whythey have to go back to square
one, because they have to fixtheir blueprint.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Got it.
Yeah, that's very helpful and Ithink I'm going to regurgitate
this back to you and see ifwe're on the right spot for for
the for gymnastics specific orgymnast specifically.
It sounds like there's oneelement of self-awareness of
like oh, I'm something's alittle odd today.
It doesn't quite feel as smoothas it should, like there's
something going on for a billiondifferent reasons, but there's
one part of this triangle that'sself-awareness.
There's a second part of thistriangle that's good

(33:42):
communication to a coach or toother people about like okay, I
just need, I need somethingdifferent today.
I need to try this ladder today.
I need to like kind of pivotthis a little bit today.
And the third part is that youhave to actually take action and
do some sort of technical workor drill or skill, or maybe it's
like five here, five hereinstead of all 10 over here, or
something like that.
It sounds like there's kind oflike three components to that of
like what does a gymnast do ifthey're struggling with this?

(34:04):
Like fear, anxiety, mentalblock right now, is there
anything you would change aboutthat or add about that?

Speaker 2 (34:08):
or no, I mean, that's it.
I tell people it's show up andask what can I do?
Ask your coach if you can do itand do a bunch of them, and do
a bunch of them.
Yep, that's it.
And then repeat tomorrow andwhatever.
But the key here is that youstart at point a, which is not
what you should be able to do orwhat you need to be able to do

(34:28):
by next week, or what you usedto do or what your friend is
doing.
It's literally what can you do?
What's the hardest progressionyou can do right now,
confidently.
So I'm looking for like a sevenout of 10 on the confidence
scale where they're out of theircomfort zone but they're
successful consistently.
They're not balking.
If they're freezing up twice,they're pushing too hard.

(34:50):
It's time to back up and youfind that sweet spot, which is a
daily sweet spot, because anadolescent's confidence is a
moving target and there are amillion things that can impact
confidence.
So you show up, you ask whatcan I do right now?
What's my seven out of 10 onthe confidence scale?
Go, make 10 and then move on.
Repeat tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, I love that.
I think there's a big thing inthis thread which is consistency
over days instead of just likeblasting 40 on one day.
I think that this will dovetailwell into the coaching side.
But a framework that's beenvery successful for us on the
fear side a fear mental blockside, but also just like the
performance side is using thisframework of like macro, micro
and daily goals.
I like your point.
I'm a huge fan of like gymnastautonomy.

(35:31):
Like I'm here to help you reachyour goals.
I am just like along the ridewith you in a shared partnership
.
I am not doing it for you.
I'm not telling you what to dobecause I want you to like this
is your goal and your desire.
I am helping you along the wayand I'm getting paid to give you
my advice on what I think thebest path forward is there.
But using like the autonomy islike what is your goal?
Okay, your goal is to get tocollege, which means you

(35:52):
probably want to Yurchenkolayout at least Right.
So, like that is your goal.
And whatever years you can breakthat down into like macro or
macro goals, into micro goalsper week, it's like okay, well,
the rule is that I have to.
I have to do seven on a hardsetting by myself to compete
that to then get colleges tolook at me Right, it's like,
okay, well, that is the goal.
The daily goal then requiresthree of each each day, and then
also these three drills that Iknow help me with these

(36:14):
technical things I'm nervousabout.
I have to be committed to doingthose every single day and I'm
a big fan of, like, the autonomypiece.
You told me this was your goal.
I'm helping you get there, butthere's a very objective way to
track that and to kind of helpnatural consequences of actions.
I'm a big fan of that.
So it's like you look back ifthe vault goes super duper well,
and you look back on the fourweeks of head no-transcript, do

(36:47):
maybe one or two minimum per day.
And I was kind of spotting you.
That's why we got the bars andyou melted down, because we have
haven't had those basic stepsevery single day to build our
ladder up of success.
So that three prong framework Ilike to teach the gymnast and
say this is what needs to happenfor you to get to these little
baby steps, to have those microwins, to then feel like you're
accomplishing something on thelongterm.
So that's another like coachingpractical tip, but I feel like

(37:08):
we're going to move into thatside anyways.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah Well, and I think that it's a cool segue
into like dealing withperformance anxiety, is that?
I mean every athlete, ideally,is learning from the good and
learning from the bad?
You have a great.
You have a great performancehere.
What did you do?
You have a not so goodperformance here.
What did you do?
And you just mentioned thetechnical side.
Okay, what, what numbers did wedo?

(37:30):
What drills did we do, how, how, what percentage was your
effort at?
From my perspective, I'm likeoh, you had a great meet,
awesome.
How did you set yourself up forsuccess?
Because a lot of the time onthe mental side, kids are like I
just randomly got afraid, Irandomly did great.
I randomly did terrible and I'mlike hold on, nothing is ever

(37:51):
random in gymnastics.
It just isn't, because you canalways track it back to.
You had an awesome meet becauseyou were running late.
You were worried more about mombeing late and being mad at her
than you were about your beamwarmup.
You came in, you knocked outyour warmup, you got up and you
went before you even knew whathappened and you killed it.

(38:13):
Great, let's figure out why.
Why was that useful?
Oh, you weren't thinking aboutyour competition whatsoever.
You were distracted, whichallowed you to not do the thing
you typically do in a meet, youknow.
So, for example, you just youlook back and go okay, the great
performance that I had, whatwere some of the clues of what

(38:33):
might've set me up for that?
And I'm like throw it all onthe paper.
You never know what was thething that worked.
And then I chatted with mygrandma and then I couldn't find
my phone, which, okay, youweren't on social media.
You look at all the things thatmight have set you up for
success and then that's how youstart to really conquer

(38:57):
performance.
Anxiety is that you've learnedfrom the great competitions.
You've learned from theterrible ones how not to set
yourself up for success, andthen you've got your own little
mental game plan.
And this isn't superstitious,this is like I know that if I am
not thinking about beam andbreathing, I give myself two
hours to not be in a rush.
You know, whatever, everyone'sgoing to have their own cocktail

(39:18):
.
Yeah.
That's how you get into yourkind of peak performance mindset
and you and over time, you'realways crafting it through
successes and failures.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Oh, that's so interesting.
So I guess I've never thoughtabout like the meta around um
planning as a separate uhskillset.
I guess I would say and I'm I'mkind of thinking back to
college I had horrificperformance anxiety when I was
in high school and going tocollege and then I didn't really
compete much until college butthen I did get a shot my like
sophomore year and I'm trying tothink about it because, like
that, that was like the meat ofmy life and I think you're right
, I think by that age maybe Ihad matured, I was like 18 or no

(39:47):
.
I just knew what I needed onthe day of a meet to get in my
zone, Right, like I think you'llsee a lot of people sleep
before and like feeling yourselfwell as a side competition.
But like I'm up at a very earlytime on a meet day, even though
my meets not till five, I'm upat like seven or eight, getting
up, going around, you know,going for a walk, getting food,

(40:08):
whatever, and then I think it'slike this pre ritual, right,
like okay, a couple hours beforeI'm going to shower, I'm going
to lay out on my back together.
So I'm not rushing around, I'mactually just going to shoot the
shit with my friends for anhour.
I'm not going to think aboutwarming up, we're going to like
just joke.
We're going to hang out teamwarmup Like we're very loose,
we're very relaxed, and thenmaybe like an hour before I have
a floor, warmup I have to do.
This is open.
Obviously it's not like arotation touch, but it's like I

(40:34):
have to do five of this past,five of this past my corners.
Like I do the exact same warmupand the exact same order on
every single event, every singletime, and I disappear for 30
minutes and that's what I woulddo.
I would like put my headphoneson before the meat walkout.
I'd find 30 minutes to buymyself.
You may not have 30 minutes ifyou're a high school gymnast,
but I just need music.
I need like my zone, I justneed like by myself time and
it's not like negative.
I I'm going to salute nationalanthem, take my headphones off

(40:59):
and go right away and first.
Like that's just my routine, soI never thought about it till
right now, but like that is whatworked for me, but that can be
completely different forsomebody else.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Yes, it goes back to that.
There is no one size fits allmental strategy for kids, like
you know.
Some people are like, oh well,he does the music thing, so I
better do the music thing.
Right, but you actually mightneed to be chatting with your
friends before you go.
Some high anxiety kids.
I tell them find a designatedchatting buddy.
Yeah, you can just talk aboutthe leotards, talk about the
snacks and talk about theanything that's sort of light

(41:31):
and fluffy and funny.
You know, hang out with thefunny friend.
If you're too serious and thenyou're just stressing and
imagining everything that couldgo wrong, get yourself a good,
positive distraction.
But any of these suggestionswe're giving might not apply to
you.
That's why I always say, like,go to the data.
Take the data that you havecollected over your years of

(41:52):
competing.
Look back over your three bestperformances and your three
worst.
Figure out the patterns, figureout what works.
Then go try it at the home meet.
See how it goes.
If it doesn't work and itbackfires, awesome.
You have new data that can helpyou to craft the perfect
performance routine.
And then you try it again.

(42:15):
And also you try it at practice.
So if you're going to do themusic thing for 30 minutes
before a meet.
I would say you're doing thatin the car on the way to
practice too?
Yeah, because if you want whatyou're doing in practice to
translate to what you're doingin competition, you you need to
make it as similar as possibleon all fronts so that you can
just let the train leave thestation, and just what you

(42:36):
always do.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, that's so great .
I think that's like again backto the self-awareness piece,
right?
It's like do you need to bearound people or do you not want
to be around people?
Do you?
Do you want to talk to somebodyabout gymnastics and technique
and scores and be in it right inthe trenches, but you need to
talk about, like, the latestTaylor Swift album and the drama
that's going on.
That's nothing related to yourroutine, right?
But also, I think music is abig one too.
A lot of people listen to musicbut, like, some people like to

(42:59):
listen to like, heavy, amped up,rah-rah music and some people
that's not good for them becauseit gets them too riled up and
maybe it's events, but I don'tknow why.
I just thought of this, but Iwas training for a long distance
run and I used to listen toreally heavy rock music and I
would overrun my pace and Iwould blow up Like for all the

(43:20):
miles at my pace.
So, like, maybe, maybe thatlike amped up, rah rah, heavy
metal music is not good for youif you're going up and you're
too too riled up man.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, but you have to do the experiment first.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
I love that.
Yeah, I love figuring out.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah, if your experiment doesn't work, great,
don't repeat it, adjust andcollect more data, and that's
like I try to look at the wholecompetition season like just a
data collection method.
Yeah, that's great.
But you go and you do a littleexperiment.
How's my training hitting?
What did I learn?
What worked, what didn't goback?
Train, adjust my, my mindset,try again.

(43:57):
And so these little check-insjust to see how is my mental and
physical training landing andwhat do I need to adjust.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, and I think there's so much this too on.
Like, the days prior to I thinkare really important here for a
gymnast is, I know, for a lotof kids they're in school,
they're during test season.
It's like peak madness, right.
So I think it's great to thinkabout.
You know, what is my schoolworkweek look like leading up to a
meet?
Like, what is my school workweek look like leading up to a
meet?
Like what is the Monday throughThursday If I have a Friday
meet?
Like is there a way that I cantalk to teachers, get homework
ahead of time so that, likeThursday night, I'm not doing

(44:26):
anything, I don't have any workto do, I'm playing a board game
with my family and I'm not evenon this vibe, right?
And my meal?
Like prepping some snacks thatI'm.
Do I have snacks for the daybefore class?
Like all that kind of stuff.
What am I eating before themeat Do?
I know it's going to feel mewell Like I think all that stuff
is really important andsomething that, um, I don't know
who told me this, but um, twoweeks prior to whenever your

(44:48):
meat time is, you should wake upat the same time and do the
same routine.
It takes two weeks to acclimate.
So if you at 11 o'clock for a12 o'clock practice, you know
you need to get your butt out ofgear at eight in the morning
the two weeks prior and dosomething until practice at 11.
So your body acclimates todoing gymnastics at eight 30 in
the morning.
You know I bombed so many meetscause they were such early

(45:09):
mornings and I was notacclimated or ready at all.
So, like all those things likewhat am I doing the night before
?
What am I doing, you know, formy wake up time, I think those
things are all really importantto help buffer some of that
stress level, you know.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, and also, like you mentioned, having the same
routine.
Yeah, what it does is, it justmakes it so you burn less brain
calories on meat day because youdon't have to make decisions.
There's no.
When should I get up?
What should I do next?
Should I do my hair first?
Should I listen to this music?
It's like no, I'm just going todo the thing that I do and I

(45:44):
don't have to stress.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
There used to be an hour hair meet done before Mel,
this girl that I've worked with,used to do like five or six
people's hairs.
They used to sit there and chatand gossip and take Snapchats
Like that was part of their vibe.
I was nowhere near that, butyeah, that's a.
That's a cool thing I justthought of too.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, so.
So getting using data to figureout, here's what I'm going to
try.
Then you just do it.
You don't make any newdecisions.
You already know I'm going toeat carbs, I'm going to eat
protein, I'm going to like,whether you're in a hotel or
you're at your house, you, yousort of know like this is the
routine and you just do itwithout making a whole bunch of
last minute decisions.

(46:23):
Then you reflect againstself-awareness, which awareness
is the absolute foundation ofconfidence.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah, something that came to mind is that, before we
pivot to coaching, is there afear or there is an issue?
When it's too strict, it has tobe this exact thing at this
exact moment, with this exactfood, at this exact time, like I
feel, like I know some capitalA type A's and if they don't
have their like one bar 13minutes before, it's like oh my
God, the wheels fall off.
We borderline superstition, ofcourse, but like is there a

(46:50):
screwing too tight problem thatpeople have sometimes?

Speaker 2 (46:53):
So yes, when it, when it goes to superstition, that's
when, that's when it's noteffective, because the
difference between a routine anda superstition is that a
superstition controls you whereyou control a routine.
I like that.
So.
So I had this swimmer who waslike high strung swimmer, and
he's like I have to have ablueberry muffin.
And I'm like okay, bro, what ifthe world runs out of

(47:14):
blueberries?
Will you never swim again, willyou not be able to race?
He's like well, I mean like, soyou want to consider what is it
about the blueberry muffin?
That's helpful, okay, you got.
You got carbs, you got a soliddose of carbs.
So could that potentially comein the form of a bagel?
You know, could that be if thehotel doesn't have blueberry
muffins, can you still be okay?

(47:35):
So I, you know, if the kids arelike I need my lucky pants,
because I had those lucky pantsin my bag when I did really well
, I'm like well, what did thepants do for you?
Oh, I guess I just didn't needto worry because I knew I had my
favorite pants.
Or there was this one meetwhere I didn't have my favorite
pants.
I had to wear the uncomfortableones after, or whatever.
You kind of get below it and gowell, what does it do for you?

(47:57):
And how can you create that ina different way or be flexible
on on the big day If somethingyou know isn't exactly how you
planned it, that way you figureout.
This is what I need and I'm incontrol of it, and I can get the
result from plan A, b or C.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
That I'm looking for.
Yeah, that's great, right,maybe zooming out one layer and
saying, like, well, what is thecategory this falls into?
Like for the muffin thing, I'dbe like well, carbs, and I need
like a nice routine or a nice,like a ritualistic hour before
we're going to leave the hotel.
I'm just sitting, I'm enjoyingtime with my family, I'm just
like chilling out.
So maybe it's the carbs as acategory and an hour of time as
a category is what you need, Notlike, you know, a blueberry

(48:37):
muffin in this chair at my house.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Exactly yes and that, and so you always want to have
a fallback to where you're.
You have kind of the ideal of Iwould love to have 30 minutes
with my music, I would love tohave you know, all of these
things that made me competereally, really well at that one
state meet, and if I only have30 seconds, I'm going to go to
this.
Yeah.
I'm going to take three deepbreaths, I'm going to hum my

(49:00):
favorite song in my head and offI go.
So that's even part of apre-performance routine.
Is having sort of the like, themini version, right For if you
can't do the whole thing, whatare the key things that you know
are really setting you up forsuccess and you make sure to
zero in on those.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yeah, that's great.
All right, I think we beat, youknow, the gymnast side uh
pretty pretty good down.
Uh, so let's, let's go a littlebit into that.
We actually hit a bunch ofcoaching stuff too.
But what other things are, fromthe coaching point of view,
either mistakes you see made orthings you recommend, or advice
to people who are on the userend of helping this kid through?
I mean, I think mental blocksis a separate topic that we've
touched on well, and we talkedabout it here, but more so

(49:38):
competition anxiety, becausethat's really what we're dealing
with here is kids that are moreor less just getting nervous
about the fact that, like, theyhave to do a routine, they have
to show, they have to be infront of a large crowd.
So, from the coaching side,what are some things that they
can do?

Speaker 2 (49:49):
So I think the first thing that I do to prevent, you
know, all these big anxietiesare we legalize failure.
Love that failure is officiallyallowed on this team.
Now, this is going to sound.
A bunch of coaches are like huh, that is not what we're here
for.
But especially, again, thosetype a kids who are just so

(50:09):
terrified of making a mistake.
Those are the ones that gettimid.
They get, they hold back, theyget shaky.
That was me, you know,convulsing on the beam with
nerves because I was soterrified of making a mistake.
We're coaches, if you can lineit out like.
We are here to be excellent, weare here to show off everything

(50:30):
we've been working hard on, andmistakes are allowed on one
condition Failure is legal onone condition we will learn from
it.
On one condition Failure islegal on one condition we will
learn from it.
And if you make that commitmentas a team that sometimes we
fall, sometimes we make mistakes, sometimes we, you know, mount

(50:52):
the beam backwards after asoccer game in a hundred degree
weather, and you know things,things happen, and we're never
going to be like on the on thesideline being like that was
terrible.
We're going to be like, okay,let's take a breath, let's cheer
on your team.
And then our job is to find thewisdom in this moment and apply
it in practice.
And if kids can know thatfailure is not only allowed but

(51:14):
actually encouraged, like KatieLedecky, for example, one of the
world's best swimmers she, hercoaches call her.
They say she failsspectacularly, but that's one of
the the biggest things thatthey're impressed about her is
that she fails hard and oftenbecause she's always pushing
herself to the point of failure,which is what makes her great.

(51:36):
So then she learns okay.
Okay, that's my edge, got it.
So if kids can go, it's okay tomake mistakes.
As long as I then take thatvaluable nugget of wisdom of oh,
I have to square my hips on mycartwheel, on the beam, okay,
I'm going to go to the gym andsquare my hips, like my life,
depends on it.
And that becomes a reallyvaluable experience that makes
you better at your next meet.

(51:56):
And if you can know that if youdo great, you learn, you figure
out what, how to set yourselfup for that Again.
If you do not so great, youlearn how to not do that again,
then you don't have to beterrified of it.
You just know no matter whathappens, I'm going to learn and
I'm going to get better.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Yeah, and to your point, I think another really
important tool for coaches is tohave a proper like container in
which to train these things andhave the failure Right.
So, like I I was a big fan andI think the athletes I work with
and myself when I was alsotraining is like I need to know
for a month of like, what is thenext four weeks, looking like
before the meet comes and beingable to map out like okay,
monday is half routines andskills, tuesday we're doing full

(52:34):
routines.
Wednesday is half routines.
Thursday we're not here.
Friday is a show day.
So we're like you have to givekids the whole plan in advance
so they can prepare and knowwhat's going on and you can
allow for a lot of moments tosafely fail and learn and
correct.
Then you say like okay, andthen the fourth week is our
first meet.
So like, wherever we're at withthat, that's what you're doing
at the, at the meet.
And then you kind of have thatyou know some kids do well, some

(52:54):
kids don't do well your momentsof reflection in the meat.
You say like listen, right nowcan't deal with it.
We got to, you know, collectourselves and get to the next
event safely.
We'll.
We'll, you know, do a debrief onMonday with everybody and then
that next Monday you come in.
Maybe you spend the first hourof practice like getting some
notebooks out what went well,what didn't go well, what can I

(53:18):
work on?
Are there some things I need toaudit?
You know where did I get myanxiety?
Did it was through the roof, onbars and, fine, on floor.
Like I think doing that debriefthat Monday after a meet and
having a lighter day on a Mondayis great, but personally I
think the more you can outlinethe entire month's plan for a
kid and tell them routines onthis day, half sets on this day,
all blah, blah, blah, likethat's very, very helpful for

(53:39):
people to wrap their head aroundbecause they can understand
what's coming down the pike forthem.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Yes, okay.
So about the journaling, thosethree questions are my favorite
that you said what went well,what didn't go well, what do we
learn?
I did a camp last summer lastsummer it was like a couple
months ago Anyway, we had kidsjournal after every event, those
three questions, and so theycarried their journals around
with them what went well, whatdidn't go well, what did I learn
?
It takes one minute, maybe two,and they jot down and that and

(54:08):
the whole point of that.
I mean I would love for kids todo that after practice every day
, after every event, would beincredible.
Definitely after every meet.
What they're doing is they arestarting to identify patterns,
what didn't go well and why, andso getting them in that habit.
I mean, if you're open tohaving your kids do a quick
journal after every event,you're going to notice that

(54:29):
performance anxiety decreasesBecause they're more in the.
They'll learn that what didn'tgo well is typically the source
of their wisdom for that eventand it gives them that real life
feedback of oh okay, I didlearn something from that.
It wasn't just that I am bad.
That's usually the takeaway Ihad a bad day at bars, the end.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Yeah, this is not a shameless plug I just thought of
.
This, though, is actually wehave a shift or shift, and
tumble track made a journal forthis exact reason.
So do not buy the whole thingand just buy the journal if you
want.
I'm not trying to sell you aproduct, but I uh I needed a
place for people to have, beforepractice, after practice, what
went well.
They measure their like,soreness levels, their heart
rate, their wellness, theirinjuries, their recovery.

(55:13):
But it's a book that has it all,so don't buy it.
If you don't need it, just usea piece of paper.
But I'm just saying somethingof that nature is good, and we
have one from tumble track ifyou are interested.
But I love that idea of what,what, after each event, and then
also at the end of the day andbefore the day, when you sit
down, you start foam rolling,you start doing your stuff, like
how sore am I, what's going onand what am I nervous about?
Am I, do I have to keep in mindwhen I come back after a day of

(55:46):
school and things are superbusy.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Yeah, I mean you talk to Olympians.
They all have a journal.
They're tracking everything.
They're tracking how many repsthey did on each event and what
was the quality of it.
Jonathan Horton like he wasjournaling every single thing he
ever did and so he could lookback on and go, you know, on a
bad day, be like, oh, this isrough.
But he'd look back six monthsand be like, whoa, I couldn't
even do what I did today sixmonths ago.

(56:08):
And just have that perspective,that awareness.
I mean it sounds tedious, butthose, those little habits that
you create, just tracking.
Tracking, not the okay, all youlike perfectionist people.
You don't have to like go trackeverything in your entire life
or else, but just to start apractice of paying attention,
whatever that looks like for you, even if it's a debrief with

(56:29):
your mom in the car.
You know, just having a momentof self-reflection, the
awareness that you get from itwill directly impact confidence.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Got it Okay, cool.
So three things in the coachingbucket.
It sounds like we have failurebeing culturally allowed in a
successful like thing to learnfrom.
We have some sort of a macroplan that everyone can follow
together to make sure we're onthe same page.
And then I think I mean I usedto, I have my moleskin too as
well but like a training journalfor a coach and gymnast
together is quite a great thingto have documentation for.
I love those plans, okay.
So the third in this trifectais parents.

(57:01):
So the poor parent with theirdaughter crying at the dinner
table, do you want to talk aboutpreventative strategies first
and then we'll go into, like,what to do during?

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Oh, lori, we love you .
I always call her Lori you know, and it's me now.
I'm like, oh gosh, I keepmeeting these parents of
nine-year-olds.
I'm like, oh yeah, it's me.
I, oh gosh, I keep meetingthese parents of nine-year-olds.
I'm like, oh yeah, it's me, I'mwith you, I'm in this boat with
you with my anxious child.
Um, I mean, it's going to soundcliche, but self-care please.

(57:31):
You know, if you find that youare rattling out of your skin
and your kid looks at you andyou're like I'm fine, and they
can tell, oh, my gosh, my mom isfreaking out right now, go take
a walk outside, you know.
Walk a lap around the meatfacility.
Go get a Starbucks.
Who needs a Starbucks?
I'll be right back.
You know, just remove yourselfIf you find that you are so high
anxiety that you're, you know,potentially creating unhelpful

(57:56):
sensations in your child.
Um, and get, get a hobby, likemaybe you are the new team
photographer, maybe you areknitting, maybe you bring a book
.
You know not what my mom usedto do, which is write down every
score of every single kid in myage division and then cheer
when my uh, my nemesis falls onbeam.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Don't do that.
That's like, that's like someserious uh, what's the word?
That's like a bitter, bitter,bitter is crazy.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
I mean it was like, well, she, you know my mom, of
course, my mom's high anxietyI'm high anxiety at all.
Apple doesn't fall far from thetree, so she's like trying to
do what she can to control this.
So she'd know what all myplaces were before I even got to
the podium.
And don't do that, you know.
Find, find something that youcan do, that's other.
I mean, in parents you have,you have four, four things that

(58:47):
you're responsible for food,hugs, rides, tuition, that's it.
And if you are stressed, manageyour stress.
You know, if you're, if yourkid's mental block is driving
you insane, then you are part ofthe problem.
Ah, I said it Because they knowhow emotionally invested you

(59:08):
are.
So every time they don't go dotheir skill, they get in the car
with you and they feel likethey failed you.
If you're just like, hey, buddy, what do you want to listen to
and what do you want to eat,then they can have their process
in the gym.
They can.
They can come and fall apart toyou and you'll and you'll be
like you're not going to say doyou want to quit?
We can give up, it's okay, wedon't have to do this if you're

(59:28):
not having fun, which just saysto the kid my mom doesn't think
I can get through this.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Yeah, yeah, I think, man, I just think about so many
people I've talked to that arelike, literally like the
superheroes that everyone looksup to and you ask them about,
like, what's your parent life?
Like, what's your kid's life?
Like, oh, my mom's just my mom.
You know my dad's just my dad.
They, they cheer me on, theylove me, they, you know, they
know a lot about gymnastics, butthey don't really talk about it

(01:00:02):
that much.
You know, like you want to workhard, of course you want to
make whatever goal.
That's the passion and the lovefor gymnastics.
But the passion and love for asport or a job and a self-esteem
driver are just so different.
You know what I mean.
So, like none of theirperformance, high or low, should
make you feel better or worseas a person.
And I think sometimes, againback to like.
The first thing we talked aboutis like a lot of times when I

(01:00:23):
think parents get over investedor not even like in a bad way,
but just over involved with themental blocks, the competition,
anxiety, the scores, whatever itcomes down to, because they're
insecure about social judgment.
They're sitting in the parentstand with their friends and
like this person falls orwhatever.
And because Susie's mom, who'sa little bit of a diva, says
something about Julie'sperformance and that Julie's
your daughter.
You get a little hurt by thatand you get upset Like, oh my

(01:00:45):
God, what should I do?
Do I have to fix this?
Blah, blah, blah.
Like so much of it comes downto like you need to be able to
stand on your own two feet andhave your own self-esteem,
regardless of gymnastics.
It's just gymnastics, it man.
My coach and my parents werejust like involved and they
wanted what's best for me.
But they were always just likemy coach was always there with a
handshake, good or bad, likeall right, like onto the next

(01:01:09):
one, like we'll, we'll deal withthis, we'll get through it.
And like I never thought thatmy coach was was wrapping up his
own self-worth and myperformance, so there wasn't
that pressure for me.
And then, like my mom and mydad were just like I got in the
but gymnastics, like how waspractice?
That was good, okay, like okay,what do you want to have for
dinner?
Like you know, what do you?
What else?
What's going on with school?
Like you want to watch thiswhen we go home.
I think like parents need to bethat like safe space, that safe
zone of comfort, to not have thedrama because they're already

(01:01:31):
stressed out.
They're so stressed out aboutscores and meets and everything.
The last thing they want tohear when they come in the car
like how was the flippy tumblething?
And I was like, good mom, I hitfive flippy tumble things.
I'm like at meets they had noidea what was going on.

(01:01:54):
They didn't know the score.
They just wanted to make sure Iwas safe and that I had food
and that I was good.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Like and and I will, you know, put in the parent
perspective of, of course, Iwant my kid to be the star
athlete that would be so fun forme to be like.
Ooh, that's my kid.
But more than that, I want mykid to not be devastated after
doing their sport.
I want my kid to be happy.

(01:02:22):
I mean, that's what theseparents, that's like.
Really, where this is comingfrom, for for most of the
parents is I just want her to behappy.
I don't want her to bemiserable, I don't want her to
suffer.
So if I see her melting downafter a bad beam routine at a
meet or if I see her crying inthe car, they're like I will do

(01:02:42):
anything to make my baby feelbetter.
And that drive is good.
It is good.
Of course, we don't want ourkids to suffer, and one of the
things that I end up teaching alot in the Perform Happy Parents
community is that we sit withthem through the tough thing so

(01:03:03):
that they can learn I can dohard things, I can do hard
feelings, I can feeldisappointed and survive it,
rather than the parent beinglike.
I will get you off of thisbench of disappointment and onto
the bench of happiness asquickly as possible.
Instead, they just need you tosit with them, yep on the bench
and be like buddy.
This is hard yes, validate yeahyeah and listen.

(01:03:28):
That's what kids really need.
They need you to just listenand don't fix it, and don't
solve it and don't give advice,unless they literally say mom,
what should I do?

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
yeah, have you?
Have you heard simon sinek'sterm for this sitting in the mud
?

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
oh, uh-huh, that makes sense, yeah he talks
Sitting in the mud.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Oh, uh-huh, that makes sense.
Yeah, he talks about it in thecontext of, like, having better
close relationships and likesometimes friends come to you
with issues and you want to fixit right away.
You like, as soon as they saythis is wrong, you say like oh
well, you should do this, youshould try this.
But instead you ask them likeokay, that's hard.

(01:04:06):
You know, it's crazy how manythings in life come down to like
damn, that sucks, I'm sorry.
Like, but keep going.
You know like, so much stuffcoming out like damn, that sucks
, I'm sorry.
Like, that's all people need.
Like, sometimes there's no goodanswer.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
There's like I'm sorry, dude, that sucks like I'm
, I'm with you, yeah, and that'sall we really need like think
about if you were, if yourspouse or partner, um like, if
you come home after a bad day,you like stuck in traffic, get
late to pick the kids up, forgotthe snacks, did bad at work,
just like you have the roughestday and you walk in and you like
tell your partner what happenedand they're like well, you know
, you should have left earlier.

(01:04:47):
And, of course, you have to packthe snacks and you know that
the kids are going to befrustrated if you get there late
and while you really need topull it together at work so that
this doesn't happen to youyou'd be like, oh God, you'd be
like, oh yeah, now you're on mylist, too, where parents are
like well, you know, you need,you need to do this, you need to
do that, and if you wouldn'thave done that then you would
have felt better.
It's like no, no, no You're.

(01:05:08):
If your partner's like oh,that's rough, come here, let me
give you a hug.
Yeah, you hungry, you know,that's what we really want.
We don't want people to solvestuff for us were like what
should I do Otherwise?
Just like repeat their wordsback Like oh, you got stuck in
traffic, that's such a bummer.
Oh my gosh, no snacks.
I've totally been there, comehere.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
I love it.
Yeah, that's.
That's very wise advice, right?
Like 90% of the time, peopledon't want to fix, they want
like this was hard, it sucked,and I just need to get it off my
chest and and have it bevalidated that like it was hard
and that I got through it andthat it was frustrating and just
helps diffuse the bomb a littlebit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Yeah, exactly.
And then they feel like you'reneutral and you love them and it
doesn't matter how theyperformed or if they relate,
Like of course I love my husbandif he ran late and pissed his
coworkers off, like whatever.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
That's so interesting that I just thought of this too
is like obviously it's adifferent relationship with my
coach, but like that was what Ihad.
Was that like a handshake andlike damn man, that sucks.
Like that's what I got a lot ofright.
It wasn't like like as soon asI got off pommel horse, like I
got like literally so many fiveson pommel horse.
I was awful at pommel horse,like literally the worst at
pommel horse, did good on acouple other events, but like
pommels just never happened forme.
He said there and every singleone and watched me do shitty

(01:06:18):
circles and get a five for many,many years.
But every time I come up he'slike hey, man, you know, like
that's a bummer, you know ontothe next one, and I think that's
kind of a big part of what Ihad.
He didn't come off Like youdidn't put your legs together
here, you missed your hand onthis placement.
Well, if you didn't do that,you wouldn't get a five right.

(01:06:39):
Like God, my relationship withhim would have go to whatever
rings you know right now.
Absolutely I never thought thatclicked until right now.
Hey, all right, tony fromConnecticut, tony Perino, anywho
.
Okay, so we have some.
I think we covered a lot ofgood stuff here, I think.
Is there anything else beforewe have a couple of community
questions from Instagram to askyou.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
I mean, I could keep going, dave, you know, we could
just keep going, but no, I feellike we touched on a lot of
things.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Yeah, no, this is good.
Okay.
So first of all, I think wekind of got this, but BNab, I
think is maybe it's BrendaNab, Idon't know.
How do you help gymnasts whostart balking or have mental
blocks on skills when routinescome, despite they've done them
all summer?
So this is a kid who, like, didtheir series all summer and
summer practice, no issues.
But as soon as it starts goinginto routine or skill
combinations, it seems like thewheels are starting to fall off.

(01:07:25):
So I thought this was a goodquestion because it's obviously
different than someone who has astraight up mental block on one
.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Yeah, so and and that's very common this time of
year that the kids, what happensis the brain is sensing a
threat.
That threat could be social, itcould be emotional, it could be
.
You know, I'm not going to dowell in competition, I'm not
good enough.
My friend is better than me.
I'm going to split the beam.
I mean, it could be a thousanddifferent things.
So the I mean you want to askthem that question.

(01:07:51):
Well, what can you do?
So if they start, they get upand they're trying to do
routines and it's just notworking and they've tried a
couple, it's not working I wouldsay where can you do it?
Can you go do a routine on thelow beam?
Sam Pesek, for example she usedto go into gym and be terrified
of beam.
She had this love haterelationship with beam and she

(01:08:16):
her coach would basically likesay okay, well, what do you?
What do you need to do here?
She first of all knew she washaving an off day.
She went to her coach and saidcan I do four times the
assignment on the low beam?
So her teammates are makingfive, she's making 20 on low,
and not to say you should belike beating your body up
necessarily but also a componentof safety.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
for the record Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
But so you know, you double the assignment and do it
on low beam perhaps.
So then they're hittingroutines, they're doing the
skill, the muscle memory isbuilding, the confidence is
building, and then there's goingto be a point where they can
get it on the high beam.
But you figure out what's theversion of it, the hardest
version of it that you could doright now, and you hit numbers

(01:08:58):
on that and, most importantly,take the spotlight off the
deadline and get into today.
Today is where you can makeprogress.
If you're focused on two weeksfrom now, the threat increases,
the confidence drops.
So start with what can you doand then improve from there.
And I know you're like but wehave a deadline, I know, but if
you can find a place where theycan be successful, like, okay,

(01:09:18):
can they do the series with apause in between?
I know blasphemy, it's not whatyou're looking for.
But then the next one, theyclose the series with a pause in
between.
I know blasphemy, it's not whatyou're looking for.
But then the next one, theyclose the pause a little, they
close the pause a little, theyclose the pause a little, and
then they're doing it right justback it up.
I mean, that's the answer,really that I.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
I think that's wise.
I think another one thatpractically worked for me too is
like, if dismounts areoftentimes an issue where
someone's doing a double for thefirst time or is doing a new
pass for floor Like, um, it hasto upgrade, or something like
that Like that is often very, uhscary is to get really tired
and then have to do a dismountand have to do whatever.
So having someone do 90% oftheir bar routine and then run
over to a pit bar and do theirdismount into a pit, and the
next time it's with one mat andthen two mats, then you stack it

(01:09:55):
up and then it's does you know,stands there to a double, then
stands on the low, uh lowestposition with a low mat.
You can build a way up to someof those harder passes.
Or they do their entire floorroutine but their last passes
into a stacked resi, for example, or something like that.
I think it helps to reduce theerror rate of possibility like
that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
So, yeah, wise advice Also if they have done it
yesterday and today they're notdoing it, do today.
Yeah.
Don't compare them to where theyshould be, where they could be,
where they you know just findout where can they be successful
right now.
This is the most efficient waythrough Right.
If their brain is throwing upstop signs, if you force it or

(01:10:35):
push it or try to make them justdo it, that is going to set
them back versus just go hit acouple on an easier progression.
Get reassurance and they'regood to go.
Prevents all kinds of drama.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Yep, love that.
Very wise advice.
Okay, this actually might berelevant in your world of your
daughter, but is gymnastics nota good fit for kids with anxiety
disorder?
This one was quite a little bitof a straight direct one, but I
think this is so hard tocategorize.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
Okay, I got a question from a coach at
national Congress this year.
That was basically the samething and she was sort of like,
well, like there's nothing wecan do if kids just have anxiety
.
Right.
And from my perspective, like Iprobably have an anxiety
disorder.
Realistically, at post COVID,25% of kids were hitting
clinical levels of depressionand anxiety 25%.

(01:11:24):
So that means out of 12 kids onbeam you've got four kids who
are probably struggling withanxiety or depression at a
potentially clinical level.
So I mean, I would say it cancreate anxiety for sure, this
sport.
But if you have the rightsupport like what I said to this
coach was well, if you thinkthere's anxiety, go to the, have

(01:11:46):
them, you know, check withtheir pediatrician and figure
out what the pediatricianrecommends.
Like I'm not a doctor so Ican't tell anyone what to do
about an anxiety disorder, butthen if they have a voice
they're going to be able to doanything that they need to do.
A lot of the time the anxietythat we see in the gym is
related to kids feeling likethey don't have a voice and
coaches being like, well, that'sjust her anxiety and there's

(01:12:07):
nothing I can do about it andit's her problem, versus just
going what can you do?
What is possible for you rightnow?
And I think this question alsokind of it's got a little twinge
of fixed mindset of you can'tlike you're.
For me I was too tall and tooold so I couldn't be successful
in gymnastics, which is I.

(01:12:28):
It became a self fulfillingprophecy and I quit at age 14,
at like five feet tall.
I wasn't even that tall, but Iwas like I'm too tall, so I yeah
.
If you, if you go in and you'relike, oh well, I'm too scared
to be a gymnast, you're going tobe right.
But if you have the rightresources, if you have the right
support, if you have a, anenvironment where you feel

(01:12:50):
emotionally safe to speak upwhen things feel scary, you can
a hundred percent be successfulin the sport.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
Yeah, and to add to that, I would say that
oftentimes it's very contextualthat there's actually a few
smaller things, when you drilldown to it, that are the main
drivers of all the anxiety.
But at surface level you'rejust constantly in this like
fight or flight state.
You're very anxious all thetime of just everything starts
to bleed over, but until youhave a pause and step back, like
what is actually the root levelof my fear, and it's like, well
, I'm scared of getting hurt andI'm scared of falling in front

(01:13:18):
of a bunch of people Like, okay,well, that's much more tangible
.
There are probably some thingsthat we can do specifically for
those that might help thesurface level rumble.
That's just my true sense.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
And what if that kid, who is anxious hello former
self loves gymnastics more thananything, and that's the place
that she feels the happiest?

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Yeah, there's nerves, yes it's a scary sport, but if
that's what you love and you canwork on doing hard things every
day and sitting on that benchof anxiety and not giving up and
doing a totally not instantgratification sport, yeah.
Oh my gosh, what an amazingexperience to be able to get to
the other side of, as you know,an adult and go.

(01:13:58):
I do hard things I can sharescary things.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Sure yeah, Love that.
And to that this is a greatdovetail, is Sierra F says does
competition anxiety ever go away?

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
Okay.
So, uh, sean Johnson would sayno, yeah.
And there are plenty of eliteathletes who say you know, if
you're not nervous, you don'tcare, or and competition anxiety
.
There's two types.
So there is the somatic anxiety, which is the you know the
sensations that your body ishaving.
And then there's the um, the,the mental anxiety, the

(01:14:30):
cognitive anxiety and physicalactivation, and you know, all of
that can be highly supportiveof great performance.
Your adrenaline, your focusnarrows in, supportive of great
performance.
Your adrenaline, your focusnarrows in.
But the worry is what's actuallynegatively correlated with with
um results.
So if your body is highlyactivated, there's no

(01:14:52):
correlation between good or badperformances.
It's when you're worried aboutit that it becomes a problem.
So, if you can, you know and Ilove to do this with kids where
I'm like we're going to likefeel okay, what does excitement
feel like?
What do you feel like whenyou're going up a rollercoaster?
Oh, my heart beats and I gettense and I get a little sweaty
and I hold on tight and I and,and then I go raise your hand if
you love that, and they likehalf of this.

(01:15:13):
So if you go in and you're like, ooh, the excitement is
happening, I'm so excited, I canfeel my body getting ready to
compete.
This is so awesome.
Just reframing the physicalsensation can make it

(01:15:33):
facilitative, can make it a veryhelpful thing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
Yeah, I love that.
So, one of my favorite stories,this is not really gymnastics,
but Matt Frazier.
Who of my favorite stories,this is not really gymnastics,
but Matt Frazier who, uh, he'sprobably like one of the baddest
dudes on the planet CrossFitgames five times in a row.
He's just some, some of thehardest things you've ever
imagined in your life.
He was sought as like the moststone, cold, stoic, bad-ass,
just robotic, uh level of focus,and he was like no man.
I dry, heave in the corral, likeI'm so nervous, I'm like, but

(01:15:58):
I've just learned that this isme and, to your point, there's
other athletes that reframe thatas like, well, this is my body
getting ready to do somethinghard to do something.
I need this to be at my optimalperformance.
I don't need to be likespiraling out of control, but
like this, this is good, this isme gearing up for, like you
know, a tough thing Like this isthis is what I'm meant for,
this is what I trained for, thisis what I'm.
I think that positive reframesometimes helped me, too, as

(01:16:20):
well.
I didn't get it as much withcollege, but I've spoken to some
very large crowds.
It's a pretty high tensesituations around.
You know gymnastics things andbefore, like hell, yeah, I'm
nervous, like you know what Imean.
These people are like it's likean entire national team from a
country, like, yeah, I'm nervous, it's like, but this is what

(01:16:42):
I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
You're new to something like.
You're new to meets.
You're like I will die fromthis.
You know, I was speaking infront of like a big rowing club
when I was still an intern insports psychology and I was like
I want to go home, I don't wantto do this.
I call my husband.
I'm like this is so terrible.
I got what?
Oh great.
He's like I'm shocked.

(01:17:02):
I'm shocked.
So that experience though taughtme oh, that's just like what it
feels like before I speak, andthen I'll do great.
So, knowing that this is justwhat it feels like for me, I
have my little pre-performanceroutine.
I feel activated, I do great.
And then I call my husband andhe laughs yeah.
And then I call my husband andhe laughs yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
Into that point.
Right, the same thing that Ithink you and I just said is
that we have routines now forthe same thing we do differently
.
I didn't realize I do it.
But yeah, when I go speak at alarge event or if I have
someone's nerve wracking, I havea pre and post uh set up like a
before.
Like I'm gonna get there anhour early, I'm going to set my

(01:17:42):
or whatever, but I block offtime to be by myself, to have my
social battery recharged beforeI go back into the world.
So for adults or coaches like Imean, I had dude, I had huge
anxiety as a coach too, I thinkwhen we had girls start
qualifying for nationals.
I was more nervous than theywere.
So I would have to have my ownlittle like pre and post routine
to keep myself on a level head.
So like, yeah, I get it, Itotally get it.

(01:18:02):
Um, okay, last one, how do youuh we talked about most of the
things here but how do you helpget gymnast confidence back
after an injury?
So whatever you think, and thenI'll obviously weigh in on the
medical side.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
Yeah.
So I look at injuries andmental blocks very similarly and
it's actually easier, I think,to ease in after an injury
because there's some physicalrepresentation, like there's a
wrapped ankle, there's a brace,there's something that the coach
can see that reminds them oh,we've got to ease in, we have to
go through the progressions,we've got to test the water,

(01:18:35):
make sure this feels safe, checkin with each other and with a
mental block it's the same waywhere you have to ease in,
figure out what you can do, testthe water, but it's confusing
for people to do that where it's.
I mean, it's literally the exactsame thing.
You have a dip in confidenceand you, you come from this
place of total self awareness.

(01:18:56):
The athlete has to really beempowered, though, because I
remember so many times I'd belike what are you doing over
there as a coach?
And they're like I'm injured.
I'm like just kidding, You'refine, Okay, Nevermind, but I do
that like once a day I'd be likewhy are you there?
Why are you sitting there?
What's happening?
And they're like I'm modifying,Like oh yeah, forgive me.
So I'll tell kids like wear thehot pink brace so that the coach

(01:19:19):
remembers that you're modifying, so that they're not thinking
that you're just doing weirdstuff on the side.
But so again, it comes down tocommunication, where you've got
to open the open the lines ofcommunication, Like, okay, kid,
this is on you to not be a hero,to show me what you can do.
We're not going to I'm not evenputting you on a high beam for
two weeks because I'm notworried about that for you.

(01:19:41):
We're just going to get, getconfidence up where, where you
feel safe, and we're going toease in.
Baby steps are key.
The smaller the baby steps thebetter, because it's a really
easy ladder to climb.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
Totally.
I couldn't agree more.
I think the commonality betweenthe mental block side and
physical injury is a gradedexposure right.
Like all of these, things needvery small baby step
progressions where you arecomfortable at a level where
you're at now, but then you areslightly exposed or stressed
over what you're capable of, andthen you back off and you see
how you respond.
If good, a little bit more thenext time, and that's that's
what, like any good physicaltherapy program, is Right, and

(01:20:14):
so I'm a big fan of givingpeople on the PT side very
in-depth training programs thatstress them more than they would
get in basic gymnastics.
To make it like a confidencething.
Like somebody sprains theirankle, I want to see you doing
like single leg bounding, hurdlehops on concrete in our gym
before I let you go to tumbletrack, because I know that that
is significantly less force thantumble track and you'll be
successful into that.

(01:20:35):
First thing of you know whateverit is for your injury and so,
having very specific, detailedplans of like we're going to do
five of these and five of theseand five of these three days
apart, see how you feel the nextday and bump things up as you
go over the course of two weeksand then we're going to monitor
for negative signs, right.
We know what a normal responseto training is You're kind of
sore, you're kind of tired.
It goes away in a day, butabnormal is pain, right.

(01:20:55):
So then obviously, on themental side, abnormal would be
like a giant anxiety spike whereyou're freezing again.
Well, okay, we got to push ittoo much, we had to go back a
bit and work our way up theladder.
I think they have much moreoverlap than people think.
But yeah, we have like pain andphysical.
You know science, and then wehave, you know emotional science
and you know some anxietyspikes that are both symptoms of
pushing the rails a bit toomuch, but baby steps all the way

(01:21:16):
back up.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
Increased confidence, little one little one, little
one, oh, I can jump, and itdidn't hurt.
Oh, I can do this drill and itdidn't hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay, and it's important to
note.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
It is not linear.
It's never linear.
You want it to be, but it justisn't.
So two steps forward, two stepsback, totally normal,
Absolutely.
If they're you know their,their brain is in overprotective
mode post injury Right, and sotheir brain is reacting, it's
overreacting to threats.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
Yeah, so we use the term hypersensitive.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
Yeah, like physically hypersensitive and also
mentally hypersensitive, and sothey're not going to need that
mat forever, they're not goingto need that spot forever.
I think coaches can sometimesfeel that way, like, oh my gosh,
we're getting, we're givingthem a crutch, we're going to be
spotting till I'm 85 up here.
I'm going to be on the floorwith them at level 10 nationals,
like no.

(01:22:07):
But for now, when you have thisoverprotective brain,
post-injury or post any kind ofbig confidence dip, give them
what they need, just give themwhat they need and trust that.
Then the coach, it's your jobto get them out of their comfort
zone.
So when you know we're incomfort, like it is time to

(01:22:27):
stretch.
But it's also okay to go backand that's all part of the
process, doesn't mean anybody'sdoing anything wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
Couldn't agree more.
I think my two cents to wrap upis that we have to remember
that kids are not little adults,right?
So a lot of the things that wedo and push harder, just got it
through.
It doesn't kill you, it makesyou stronger.
Like all that kind of stuff isjust not applicable to kids
going through puberty who don'thave fully formed brains.
Like they don't work the sameway as fricking David Goggins or
something like that, right?
So don't read books about DavidGoggins and think your kids are

(01:22:54):
going to just be superheroes.
Like they are kids who aregrowing, they have open growth
plates, they're sensitive tostuff.
Like it's a lot different thanthe 20 plus year old college kid
.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the 20 plus year oldcollege kid like um Ellie black,
david Kikuchi, she had to.
She had already done like twoOlympics and was doing drills
for her pack because she wasscared of her pack.
Yep.
It's like even that kid, eventhat grown way back down to the
old needs to, you know.
Then, finally, they took thepack out and she was like so

(01:23:24):
relieved, but she kept working.
She'd get it and lose it, andget it, and lose it, and get it
and lose it, and they just wouldkeep working back through the
progressions and there's nothingwrong.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
Yeah, even Ellie, as an Olympian, went all the way
back down to baseline leveldrill.
She talked about it on a.
She was a keynote for thesymposium, so it was like they
talked about like all the wayback down to very, very
beginning, very, very basicstuff and then working our way
back up.
But you know, same for her asit is for the 12 year old on a

(01:23:52):
back walkover.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
The difference is she didn't give up.
Fair, that's fair, Yep, Exactlyso.
She had a very kind and umsupportive coach reasonable
coach.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Yes, exactly Right, that was a part of it, like
assumed as normal that I getthis happens sometimes and we'll
just we'll deal with it.
You know, it wasn't weird, itwasn't awkward, it wasn't like
ostracized as you said.
So very good, um, okay, I thinkwe crushed much of that.
We could again go another twohours right now, but in the
essence of both of our days, um,so at the time this comes out
that you have something doing in, you know, in true nervous
November, fashion I always liketo put out education.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
So we're doing two trainings for kids.
These are gonna be quick, like20 minute trainings.
One is going to be onpreventing and getting through
mental blocks and one's going tobe on preventing and getting
through performance anxiety.
So they can show up, it'll beon zoom, they'll be able to ask
me tons of questions and I'mgoing to give them super
actionable, quick exercises thatthey can do to work through

(01:24:49):
their fears.
It's called the fearlessgymnast.
And then day three is for theparents.
So we're going to do a livetraining for parents how, like,
what not to do, exactly how tohelp you do have a role in their
fear.
So I'll go through exactly whatI've taught parents and perform
happy to do to help their kids.
That's really working and um,and then I'll do Q and a at the

(01:25:11):
end.
So if you have any anystruggles with your kid, I'm
happy to answer those.
So it'll be three days inNovember, and if you can't
attend live because yourschedule is crazy obviously
everybody's is though there willbe a replay.
So register anyway and we'llmake sure that you've got that's
great.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
I'm so happy you're doing that.
I think last year you and Iteamed up and help promote, like
your, your kind of yearly grindtoo, and so many people have
positive feedback.
So where can people find thatIt'll be a show notes link below
this video?
Of course people are listeningon audio, but where can they go
if they are driving and can'tpull it up?

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
Your listeners can go to
completeperformancecoachingcomslash shift and they'll get a
special link and we'll give thema special bonus.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
Perfect, and I will put that below as well.
So, thank you, rebecca.
Thank you for all theinformation, the resources, the
knowledge, everything, as always.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
My pleasure.
I mean, we're on this crusadetogether and I'm so grateful
that you're doing what you.

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
It does feel like an absolute battle sometimes.
That's cool.
Well, we'll keep that in mind,and then I can't wait to hear
the feedback from people likethat, and I'm sure down the road
you'll be back in here chattingmore about something related to
it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
I hope so.
We'll keep doing what we do.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
All righty, have a great day.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
You too.

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