June 27, 2024 • 23 mins
What happens when outdated coaching methods clash with modern standards? Join us for a deep dive into the evolving landscape of gymnastics culture, where personal development, happiness, and effective coaching are taking the forefront. Reflecting on the significant strides made over the past decade, we expose the remnants of abusive practices from the '80s and '90s still lingering in some gyms. This episode promises to inspire positive change through continuous learning and adaptation, offering both empathetic advice and tough love to help foster a better gym environment.
Feeling stuck in a toxic gym environment? We tackle the tough realities faced by gymnastics coaches, including when to decide if it's time to move on. Practical advice is provided on handling toxic environments, the necessity of reporting serious issues, and the harsh truth that some individuals may never change. We underscore the importance of shared morals, ethics, and goals within a coaching team, and the accountability needed even when confronting higher-ups. If change isn't possible, recognizing when to leave for the sake of mental health might be the best decision.
So, how do you create a positive gym culture? We explore aligning values and goals to foster an environment of respect, honesty, empathy, and ongoing education. By understanding each coach's unique goals and motivations, a cohesive and supportive atmosphere can be built. Open communication and mutual respect, even amidst personality differences, are crucial. We stress the need for personal accountability and maintaining healthy personal habits to prevent negative impacts on the gym culture. Tune in for a comprehensive guide on addressing cultural issues within organizations, balancing empathy, kindness, and accountability to cultivate a thriving gymnastics environment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the shift show, where mynumber one goal is going to be
tools, ideas and the latestscience to help you change
gymnast lives.
My name is Dave Tilly on thispodcast.
This is going to be a shorterepisode and my hope and my goal
is to try to balance some of thelonger episodes that we're
doing with the shorter kind oftidbit information.
So the podcast is getting quitea bit of attention again and a
(00:34):
lot of people are new listeners,which is awesome.
But there are certain topicsthat a lot of people ask me
about right.
So this one in particulardiving into, like culture
improvement and things like that.
I wanted to try to summarizesome of the basic things that I
find myself saying over and overand over again to help people
in a very short dosage on theirrun or their drive to work, just
kind of get a nice littlerefresher or a TLDR on the
(00:56):
aspect of one topic.
So this is when we talk aboutculture.
We talk about, you know, whatare things that we can be doing
to improve a gym's culture,personal development, happiness,
levels of people coachingthemselves, helping kind of work
with kids who are maybestruggling a bit with motivation
or some frustration, like whatcan we do on the culture side to
make sure that either we canimprove a gym's culture or when
to leave a gym or move away froma certain role if the culture
(01:17):
is just toxic and not reallyworking?
So the goal is to make thisepisode a short dose, and so
I'll keep the intro brief there,but I hope you enjoyed this
conversation just with me ongymnastics, culture improvement,
all right.
So the next one that we'regoing to talk about here is
going to be a bit of discussionon like culture, gym change,
happiness at work, you know,coaching or as a parent in the
sport, stuff like that.
As a medical provider working inthe sport I'm going to, I'm
(01:40):
going to try to blend this toboth ways, right.
So on one side, I want to beempathetic and give people
honest, caring, genuine advicefrom things that I have gone
through or I've seen programs gothrough and all that kind of
stuff.
The other side is a bit oftough love, because there are
some times that accountabilityis needed and that you have to
reflect and figure out what's myrole in this situation.
But I will say again, kind ofduality here.
(02:01):
On one side, it is so muchbetter than 10 years ago to work
in the sport.
As a coach, medical parent, youknow the eighties, nineties, two
thousands like they were roughman, like nineties, two
thousands in particular, notgoing to go into it, but just a
enormous amount of abuse,suffering, pain, you know, like
excess, like needless suffering.
For people, coaches, happinesswas terrible, just like, just
(02:22):
like absolute meat grinder typementality, especially
competitive gymnastics.
So it has gotten much better inthe last five to 10 years and I
want to say that I recognize, Iapplaud, I am very supportive
of so many amazing coaches,parents, medical providers,
gymnasts themselves as apositive example.
That has made the sport asignificantly better place than
it was 10 to 15 years ago.
(02:43):
So I certainly understand that,I applaud that.
I think that's great to see.
I want to recognize the factthat it's real.
It's real.
On the other side there arestill some situations that are
just painful to see of just gymsthat are so stuck in old school
mentalities, are so stuck inold school habits and they don't
(03:05):
realize they're not maliciouslydoing this but their inability
to self-reflect from eitheragain, a coach, a parent, like
medical I have happened in themedical side, I've seen this and
also just like teams as a wholeor gymnasts that are older I've
seen, they're just likeincredible um, lack of
self-awareness and laugh of self.
Lack of self-reflection andlaugh of self.
Lack of self reflection andaccountability just poison the
(03:26):
well of a gym, right?
So like I have seen situationswhere one coach who is not old
they're not young, they're rightin the middle but like they
just been doing things for 10,15 years their way, they've been
doing it and you know newinformation comes out on
flexibility, strength,conditioning, um, periodization,
skill, technique, and it justlike flies right over their head
(03:48):
because they don't want to putin the work to learn.
Right, they don't want to thinkabout, you know, anything might
be different.
You know my technique's thebest, I've done this whatever.
And you see sometimes people whoreach a certain level of
success in the sport and theythink that what worked for one
kid works for every other kid intheir gym and that is just
couldn't be farther from thetruth, right, like there is
always something to learn,something to change, something
(04:09):
to think about.
Right, of course there's sometried and true basics that will
exist all the time, no matterwhat Roundup technique,
cartwheel technique, physicalpreparation, flexibility, like
there's a lot of things that aretried and true and do need to
be carried on and kind of likehave that respect to the use of
it.
But also like when I thinkabout 10 years ago in my
coaching career, the way that Iapproached flexibility, strength
, conditioning, technique,personal development, continuing
(04:32):
education, it's completelydifferent.
It's completely different thanit was 10 years ago.
I've learned and expanded somuch of my thoughts and I've
done that by learning from otherpeople who are, you know, more
experienced and seasoned andsmarter than me, but also people
who are not inside the sport ofgymnastics.
So that is the first thing toreally say is that there are
still, unfortunately, some spots, some people, some, some just
(04:54):
like gym cultures that didn'tchange in the last five years,
probably won't change.
You know, people are just stuckin their ways.
It's too much work, it's toomuch effort.
They'd rather just coach howthey coach and move on and have
fun with their life.
And in that situation, if youare in that situation and I've
gotten pretty firm on this, likesomebody asked me the other day
in a question and answer theysaid like how do you, how do you
change a gym culture wherepeople are toxic and abusive and
(05:18):
blah, blah, blah.
You don't, you don't changethem right, because they aren't
going to change.
Oftentimes, like you can doeverything you want under the
sun.
If there's like some sort oflike clear abuse or clear issue,
you have to like go through thechannels to report them.
And then it's this whole bigdrama about like this person
doesn't report it.
It's not safe, it's not secure,it's not whatever.
I know I get it.
I've been involved in somesituations that are very sticky
(05:38):
and very stressful, but like youhave to go through the proper
channels and do an anonymousreport or do whatever if there's
something seriously concerningright Mandating reporting.
So that's like a very smallpercentage, right, that's like a
very tiny percent and thosepeople get dealt with.
What most people are dealingwith that they're frustrated
with is it's not like to thepoint of being a concerning
illegal, abusive, it's just mean.
It's just like painful to be apart of because of the gossip
(06:02):
and the bickering and the shadeand the comments behind your
back and the people who are justegotistical and don't want to
learn and think they know.
Stuff like that is what mostpeople get exhausted by.
So it's these situations whereyou know it's just tiring and
it's just like nobody wants tolearn, nobody wants to do
something different.
I don't feel like my voice isrespected.
I never get to share my ideas.
(06:22):
Everyone just kind of like,makes these side comments and
these gossips and blah, blah,blah.
And guess what?
Leave, leave the gym.
Leave the gym.
It is not worth your mentalhealth to be miserable at work.
Right, because you often spendat least 30% of your life
sleeping and 30% of your lifeworking, if not more, because
gymnastics is very involved in.
We want to do so much for thekids and whatever.
(06:43):
But if you're getting likeyou're part of a staff or
someone's making side commentsand is throwing shade your way
and is gossiping behind yourback, doesn't let you coach.
The way you want to coachdoesn't support your learning.
They don't want to change atall.
There are so many amazing gymsaround the country that are very
accommodating and very open andhave wonderful people.
I think 90% of the gyms that Iwork with are incredible, kind,
(07:04):
honest, wonderful, good peoplewho are wanting to do the right
thing and they're just trying toget by and trying to do the
best they can.
Right.
It's a very small percentagethat are truly like, exhausting
and miserable to work at.
But if you're serious aboutgymnastics whether it's being a
coach, medical parent for yourkid, whatever you owe it to
yourself to relocate or find agym that has those things Right.
(07:26):
And it's hard to move toresearch, to take a leap of
faith, to join a new gym Like Iget it, I've done it multiple
times Right.
But if you are serious aboutbeing in the sport as a career
and you want it to be yourentire life, every single day,
that you grind through themiserable existence of working
in a gym where it's not fun orit's toxic is not going to go
well, you're just choppingyourself in the foot, right.
(07:48):
You're just like, constantlycutting yourself down to be more
and more sad, more and moredepressed, more and more
frustrated, more and moreexhausted, right, and not feel
like your work is going anywhere.
So if your career is set ongymnastics in some way, shape or
form, move to another gym thatis in your area, or maybe it's a
move farther away.
But find the places that havegood people who will support you
(08:09):
and that it's enjoyable to workat.
If this is your career, okay.
The other thing I recommend topeople is that maybe it's just
pivoting your role withingymnastics as a whole.
So maybe, like coaching isexhausting for you and like
doing all that grind is not fun.
Maybe you want to judge, maybeyou want to be a technician,
maybe you want to work insupport staff, maybe you want to
try to do equipment stuff,maybe you want to go on the
(08:30):
rules committee right.
Maybe you want to try to manageor be involved in a gym at a
different level.
Maybe it's preschool, maybeit's rec, maybe it's lower level
comp, not high level comp.
Maybe elite is exhausting butyou want to try to do compulsory
or competitive like low levelpreteens.
It's more fun for you.
Think about the multiple spotsthat are in gymnastics that you
can be a part of judgingcoaching, uh, lower level
coaching, higher level coaching,recreational coaching, adult
(08:51):
gymnastics, technical chairthere's so much stuff that can
be involved Leo's and recruitingand equipment management
there's a bajillion differentroles that are coming up inside
of gymnastics.
So maybe you're just a littleburnt out with your current role
and you want to try somethingelse for a bit before you go
back or permanently move toanother role.
That is possibly an option tooas well.
And the third thing that isharsh, real to hear is that
(09:13):
maybe you just want to move onfrom gymnastics.
Maybe it's not a specificperson or a culture or a gossip
or whatever.
Maybe you just want to tryother stuff.
That's okay.
Maybe you just want to notcoach anymore after 10, 15 years
and maybe you want to go dosomething else with your life,
in a different profession, andyou're just beating yourself up
because you're you're, you don'twant to leave the sport.
Maybe you can still be involvedsomehow.
Maybe you can volunteer at agym while you work a different
(09:34):
craft or a hobby, right, like Ifind myself, I have too much ADD
and I love too many things toonly do gymnastics full time.
I love physical therapy, I lovegymnastics, but I also love my
family.
I love video games, I love AI,I love all sorts of other facets
that I'm enjoying myself with.
To just be all dedicated to onething and I oftentimes that,
sometimes I find I get tooover-involved.
I got to pull myself out a bitLike I just disappeared for
(09:55):
three months last summer becauseI was burnt out and I need time
and I need something else to dowith my personal life.
It's okay, right, but you haveto figure out.
Is it this gym that I need toleave?
Is it this role that I need toleave?
Or is it the sport that I needto leave?
Right, and that's all inside.
The people who are just like.
I get a lot of emails, a lot ofDMs from like it's exhausting,
no one's changing All I do, allthe work.
These people are toxic, it's soabusive, blah, blah, blah.
(10:17):
Okay, report them and leave,file a safe sport allegation
anonymously and then move onwith your life.
Right, you can't control theirpeople.
And stop killing yourself overthe fact that you're going to
change this one person who's hadan Eagle for 25 years and it's
just like throwing shade insidecomments.
That person is who.
They are right.
Don't waste your life trying tofix them or trying to change
them.
Okay, deal with the seriousallegations.
Try to do a little bit of workinside the gym, which I'll give
(10:39):
you some tips for next, and thenmove on, man.
Move on for your mental health.
Stop.
Stop just digging your owngrave trying to be there and fix
everybody.
It's not going to work.
Okay, so again, hopefully,that's a good balance of empathy
and I've been there and Iunderstand.
I want to help you slash toughlove to be a little accountable
for your own mental health.
Okay, now, that aside, if you'rein a gym where people are open
to change, it's just hard right,and they're open to trying new
(11:01):
ideas.
They're open to these things,but nobody knows what to do.
That is, that is a differentsituation, right?
So in those things when Iconsult with you know, teams,
elite, college, whatever andthey say, hey, we have this like
issue, girls aren't doing whatwe want, guys don't want to get
on stuff, it's hard frustrating,blah, blah, blah the first
place to start is with again,with empathy and reverse
engineering, why people are here.
Okay, so if you're on a teamthat's part of a coaching staff,
(11:24):
a college team, an elite team,you all have to agree upon the
same morals, ethics and goals,right, so you can have different
personalities.
You can have different stylesand swagger about how you do
stuff.
Different background,upbringing, personalities that's
totally cool, that's actually agood thing.
But you have to have the samecommon, uh, morals, ethics and
goals.
Okay, you have to all believein working hard and safety and,
(11:45):
uh, you know, being nice to eachother, respecting each other's
opinions, listening when someonetalks or being open to other
people's ideas right.
You have to have those commonsituations right and, in those
moments, right.
If you are slowly finding outthat somebody you hired is not
part of that and they're notreally like on board driving it,
well, that's the team leader'srole to hold that person
accountable.
If someone is constantlyshowing up late, berating other
(12:08):
people, not letting people talk,that is a team leader, a head
coach, a gym owner, whoever.
To hold that person accountableand say, hey, listen, we agree
upon these values, is like theseare our core values, like being
nice, working hard, beingrespectful, constantly learning
and listening to people whenthey talk.
Those things are important andjust some of your choices and
some of your actions right noware not in line with those
things.
So I'm just raising yourawareness to it, letting you
(12:29):
know no harm, no foul, but likewe have to keep an eye on this
right.
Then, if it happens again, thatperson has to be held
responsible or being heldaccounted for like hey, listen,
like talk to you about this once.
Now it's not happening.
So like, third time we're goingto have some serious problems
and you might be let go, likeget to make it that serious.
And then, of course, if ithappens, you have to have a
spine, let that person go and inthat situation, but what if
(12:49):
that person is the head coach?
What if that person is theperson who runs the gym?
What if that person is thenational team head coach?
That's where you start goingback to the first part of the
conversation is like is this gyma good fit for me?
Right, is this role a good fitfor me?
If I try to bring this concernto my gym owner and the gym
owner is the person who'sberating me and is making side
comments, is not running thebusiness?
(13:09):
Well, is not listening to thestaff and concerns and helping
get enough coaches, well, thatperson you can bring it to a
couple of times, but eventuallyyou, if they're not going to
change at all, it's time to moveon.
Right, because their gym isgoing to go up in flames, right,
if you constantly fire coachesand don't listen to coaches and
are not problem solving and arenot listening to people, that's
not a good leader.
You're dodging a bullet runaway as fast as you can, right,
(13:30):
but most times than not, 90% ofthe time I have these
conversations with people.
When you bring it to someone'sawareness and you say, like,
listen, you may not realize, but, but like, this is like this
thing.
This small thing is 90% of myfrustration, right, the fact
that I don't have a schedule andI don't have space on the floor
to set up drills for my eightkids and there's people running
through my runway is enormouslyfrustrating, right, and because
(13:51):
of this one thing it's making mylife miserable, like everything
I do is so frustrating and sostressful because I don't have
an extra set of hands to help mewith 20 kids, right, and most
people who are great leaders.
When you bring that up to go,wow, I didn't realize that, like
, that was such a big deal.
I just have so many thingsgoing on.
I'm trying to manage stuff, but, like, thank you for telling me
, let's work on some solutionshere.
Let's try to get you a juniorstaff member to help you for
that one event.
Let's.
(14:12):
Let's rearrange the rotationschedule.
Let's get you 15 minutes overhere, right, those things are
very sol and fixable if you'rebeing open, honest and it's
resting on a culture of respect,kindness, honesty, problem
solving, safety, all that kindof stuff.
Okay, so you have to be able toalign yourself with other people
(14:32):
who have those common valuesand then, on top of that, have
common goals.
The goal of our gym is to keepkids happy, healthy and pursue
their goals, whether that'srecreational or elite, national
team.
Okay, we can all align in thosegoals.
We can all align in thosemorals and those ethics.
We're going to keep circlingthese things when we make
choices.
Okay, that is the base of howto have a good culture change.
You bring up the fact that, hey,we have these values.
(14:53):
Do we have core values?
Let's make sure we have those.
If we do, we are drifting fromthese core values.
Right, the fact that we arearguing or bickering or allowing
kids to, whatever you know,there's a bajillion examples
here.
Um, we are drifting from ourcore values and we are not
aligned with our goals, right,based on safety and all we want
to do.
So we have to have as a, as ateam, figure out what's going on
(15:13):
there and oftentimes, insidethose hard conversations, inside
those open moments of what'sgoing on, a lot of things come
through that that implementchange.
Okay, then you have to act onthat change.
You have to put in small places, you know, this change here.
Or this 50 minute rotationschedule, or this staff, we're
going to hire this staff.
We're going to let go this.
This is what we're going to dodifferently in the summer, and
again back to if it doesn'tchange.
(15:38):
Got to move on, okay.
Got to thing that's reallyhelpful that I give people
education on as a third tip isto be empathetic and reverse
engineer what people want, okay.
So, even though you have thegoal of keeping kids happy,
healthy and whatever successful,inside that there are different
small little goals.
Right, for one person, onecoach, for example, they might
just want to learn a lot.
They might not feel like theyknow great technique.
They might really want to uptheir level of technical
(16:00):
knowledge to then be more, youknow, progressive towards level
six or level seven, or coachinga leader or whatever.
So, for one person, they reallycare a lot about the fact they
don't feel comfortable withtheir skill set.
They want to learn more.
For another coach, it might bethat they want to have x amount
of level nines and level 10s totry to make nationals as a team
goal to help kids fulfill theirgoal of scholarships.
Right, that might be another.
For a third person, it mightjust be that they want to have
(16:22):
the most incredible, amazingrecreational show with the kids
that are happy, the parents thatare happy, little kids loving
gymnastics.
Right, three different coacheswith three very different goals
and you have to reverse engineer.
Okay, you care about Con Ed,you care about level nines,
level tens, you care aboutpre-team and preschool
gymnastics.
Let's reverse engineer why youcare about those things and then
(16:44):
align our goals together on whywe should deal with this hard
problem.
Okay, so when you have thosethree different people, if you
don't dig into their mentalitywhether you're a head coach, a
gym owner or whatever andreverse engineer what other
people want, why are you in thesport?
Why are you working so hard asa coach or a parent?
I do this with kids all the time.
One kid wants you know, one kidwants to score.
One kid wants a national team,one kid wants to just not be
injured, right?
(17:04):
Reverse engineer what theirgoals are and be empathetic to
that and say listen.
Well, this is why we have tochange.
Okay, cause all three of thosecoaches for example, the, the
con ed coach, the level ninecoach and the preschool
gymnastics coach they all willbenefit from from education.
They will all benefit from somestaff training once per month
where you guys come in togetherand learn about whatever
(17:24):
technique, handstand, techniqueright, and the fact that that
con ed is valuable, somethingeverybody has to do.
That raises the cultural floorof it, right.
Open communication and honestyand respectfulness when you're
trying to go through yourcoaching, staffing stuff like
that helps all those goals, okay.
So maybe there's like somepersonality differences in the
team or there's some people whodon't drive very well on a team,
like that's okay, that's normal.
(17:44):
Not everybody loves everybody,but you can always be respectful
, you can always listen to whatpeople are saying, you can
always be kind to people, right,you can always do those things
and no matter what your goal is,all three of those things are
there.
So that's the cultural bedrockof um hey, we're always going to
be open and honest and careabout people and listen to their
ideas and not shoot them downwhen they bring it up.
Every single time adisagreement comes up or every
(18:05):
single time some friction comesup and it doesn't get handled
well, you say, hey, listen, likeyour choices, your actions
right now are not in line withthe values that we established,
are very important.
So they should be written downin a binder, they should be
slapped on the wall.
They should be, do whatever youwant, but like that glue at the
bottom of aligning yourcultural values, your
expectations, your goals, andthen having core values of
respect, honesty, caring,empathy, continuing education,
(18:27):
all that kind of stuff.
They have to be outlined andfollowed there.
The last thing I'll say here, ona parting note of
accountability, is the mostprogress in a cultural
progression comes fromindividuals being more
accountable for themselves.
Okay, oftentimes outside thegym, okay, the biggest cultural
headaches I ever see come whensomebody has a personal level
(18:49):
issue and it's bleeding into thegym.
Okay, so somebody has, forexample, on their personal life
they're not very healthy, right,they don't eat well, they don't
sleep well, they don't work out, they're not setting a good
example and they bring that intothe gym when they're sick, when
they're tired, when they're notkeeping up with their education
, when they're just exhausted.
All the time they can't keep upwith spotting, right, that
person has a personal levelissue that's bleeding in.
(19:10):
So I have many examples in mylife where my ego when I was a
younger coach and my insecuritycaused me to whiplash and be
more aggressive and yell at thegym.
Right, I own that.
I've gone through that.
I'm on the other side of it.
I'm a constant work in progress, but everybody has some
personal level stuff they haveto figure out.
It's not your job as a coach ora teammate to like tell that
person to fix it, but you haveto just be aware of that in
(19:32):
yourself.
Okay.
So if you have your own issueswith an old body image, eating
disorder type thing when youwere in college or when because
the time back then was terribleyou can't let that bleed through
in a personal level issue thatcomes out in your own work life
right.
If you have insecurities, ifyou have fears, if you have
family drama, if you haveaddictions alcohol right.
(19:53):
Like drugs, like social media,like if you have the need for
external validation and that'scausing you to act a different
way, you got to handle your shit, man.
Like.
That's just no way.
More bluntly to put it Like, ifyou want to be the best coach,
the best parent, the bestmedical provider, the best
athlete, you have to spend timeauditing what is?
What's the personal leveldemons that I have around, fears
and insecurities.
(20:13):
What am I doing?
Maybe that's causing me not toact?
Great, and how do I fix thosethings?
Everyone has a differentapproach.
Some people want therapy, somepeople want to have a long chat
with their best friends, somepeople want to journal their
life away, and that's fine.
But whatever it is, you have tohave some level of personal
development and personalaccountability for how your
outside life is affecting yourinside life in the gym and your
career.
If the best changes I see inprograms and that I've had in my
(20:35):
own gym in our area is wheneach individual person says, hey
, we're going to work onourselves a bit here and bring
the best version of ourselves tothis program and we're all
going to kind of have thatawkward, tough conversation with
ourselves or others to figureout what are some of the things
that we can improve upon.
Whether it's, uh, education,whether it's a little bit of an
ego, whether it's a littleaddicted to social media,
whether it's not being the mosthealthiest outside the gym,
(20:55):
whatever it is, all those thingsare very to deal with.
So those are all the things Ithink you should think about.
You should think about is thisgym a good fit?
Is this role a good fit?
Is the sport a good fit for me?
Beyond that, what are our corelevel morals, values and ethics
that we have in common goals?
Okay.
Beyond that is, how do we haveopen, honest conversations that
are respectful and deal with thethings head on right?
(21:18):
Then, beyond that, what thingscan I do for myself to improve
on my own insecurities, my ownfears and bring the best version
of myself to the gym?
Okay.
And if none of those things aregoing well in your gym and
nobody wants to change andnobody wants to do, it is not
worth your mental health andyour emotional health to stay
there and poison the well.
Okay.
So try your best.
I always encourage opendiscussion with empathy and
honesty.
(21:38):
Do everything you possibly can,but if it's, if you're just
slamming your head against thewall and the person will not
change or a group of people willnot change.
There's a thousand gyms outthere.
There's a thousand things to doout there.
Life is much, much bigger thanjust gymnastics, okay.
So again, hopefully this is agood blend of empathy and
kindness and wanting to help you, because I've been through it,
but also some tough love onaccountability and just some
things you have to do.
So everyone who asked me aboutcultural issues, I'm going to
(22:01):
point them to this episode andhopefully something in here will
help.
We've done very large, deepdives on other podcasts with Eva
Van Ness sorry, eva Shute, Ican't be sure I didn't make a
name Eva Shute and many otherpeople and college coaches and
club coaches about deep culturalchanges.
So if you want more, there isplenty on the other side of the
docket, but I just wanted tokeep this one to 20 minutes or
so to help summarize for people.
(22:23):
So hope people enjoyed thisepisode and we'll see you on the
next one.
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the shift show, where mynumber one goal is going to be
tools, ideas and the latestscience to help you change
gymnast lives.
My name is Dave Tilly on thispodcast.
This is going to be a shorterepisode and my hope and my goal
is to try to balance some of thelonger episodes that we're
doing with the shorter kind oftidbit information.
So the podcast is getting quitea bit of attention again and a
(00:34):
lot of people are new listeners,which is awesome.
But there are certain topicsthat a lot of people ask me
about right.
So this one in particulardiving into, like culture
improvement and things like that.
I wanted to try to summarizesome of the basic things that I
find myself saying over and overand over again to help people
in a very short dosage on theirrun or their drive to work, just
kind of get a nice littlerefresher or a TLDR on the
(00:56):
aspect of one topic.
So this is when we talk aboutculture.
We talk about, you know, whatare things that we can be doing
to improve a gym's culture,personal development, happiness,
levels of people coachingthemselves, helping kind of work
with kids who are maybestruggling a bit with motivation
or some frustration, like whatcan we do on the culture side to
make sure that either we canimprove a gym's culture or when
to leave a gym or move away froma certain role if the culture
(01:17):
is just toxic and not reallyworking?
So the goal is to make thisepisode a short dose, and so
I'll keep the intro brief there,but I hope you enjoyed this
conversation just with me ongymnastics, culture improvement,
all right.
So the next one that we'regoing to talk about here is
going to be a bit of discussionon like culture, gym change,
happiness at work, you know,coaching or as a parent in the
sport, stuff like that.
As a medical provider working inthe sport I'm going to, I'm
(01:40):
going to try to blend this toboth ways, right.
So on one side, I want to beempathetic and give people
honest, caring, genuine advicefrom things that I have gone
through or I've seen programs gothrough and all that kind of
stuff.
The other side is a bit oftough love, because there are
some times that accountabilityis needed and that you have to
reflect and figure out what's myrole in this situation.
But I will say again, kind ofduality here.
(02:01):
On one side, it is so muchbetter than 10 years ago to work
in the sport.
As a coach, medical parent, youknow the eighties, nineties, two
thousands like they were roughman, like nineties, two
thousands in particular, notgoing to go into it, but just a
enormous amount of abuse,suffering, pain, you know, like
excess, like needless suffering.
For people, coaches, happinesswas terrible, just like, just
(02:22):
like absolute meat grinder typementality, especially
competitive gymnastics.
So it has gotten much better inthe last five to 10 years and I
want to say that I recognize, Iapplaud, I am very supportive
of so many amazing coaches,parents, medical providers,
gymnasts themselves as apositive example.
That has made the sport asignificantly better place than
it was 10 to 15 years ago.
(02:43):
So I certainly understand that,I applaud that.
I think that's great to see.
I want to recognize the factthat it's real.
It's real.
On the other side there arestill some situations that are
just painful to see of just gymsthat are so stuck in old school
mentalities, are so stuck inold school habits and they don't
(03:05):
realize they're not maliciouslydoing this but their inability
to self-reflect from eitheragain, a coach, a parent, like
medical I have happened in themedical side, I've seen this and
also just like teams as a wholeor gymnasts that are older I've
seen, they're just likeincredible um, lack of
self-awareness and laugh of self.
Lack of self-reflection andlaugh of self.
Lack of self reflection andaccountability just poison the
(03:26):
well of a gym, right?
So like I have seen situationswhere one coach who is not old
they're not young, they're rightin the middle but like they
just been doing things for 10,15 years their way, they've been
doing it and you know newinformation comes out on
flexibility, strength,conditioning, um, periodization,
skill, technique, and it justlike flies right over their head
(03:48):
because they don't want to putin the work to learn.
Right, they don't want to thinkabout, you know, anything might
be different.
You know my technique's thebest, I've done this whatever.
And you see sometimes people whoreach a certain level of
success in the sport and theythink that what worked for one
kid works for every other kid intheir gym and that is just
couldn't be farther from thetruth, right, like there is
always something to learn,something to change, something
(04:09):
to think about.
Right, of course there's sometried and true basics that will
exist all the time, no matterwhat Roundup technique,
cartwheel technique, physicalpreparation, flexibility, like
there's a lot of things that aretried and true and do need to
be carried on and kind of likehave that respect to the use of
it.
But also like when I thinkabout 10 years ago in my
coaching career, the way that Iapproached flexibility, strength
, conditioning, technique,personal development, continuing
(04:32):
education, it's completelydifferent.
It's completely different thanit was 10 years ago.
I've learned and expanded somuch of my thoughts and I've
done that by learning from otherpeople who are, you know, more
experienced and seasoned andsmarter than me, but also people
who are not inside the sport ofgymnastics.
So that is the first thing toreally say is that there are
still, unfortunately, some spots, some people, some, some just
(04:54):
like gym cultures that didn'tchange in the last five years,
probably won't change.
You know, people are just stuckin their ways.
It's too much work, it's toomuch effort.
They'd rather just coach howthey coach and move on and have
fun with their life.
And in that situation, if youare in that situation and I've
gotten pretty firm on this, likesomebody asked me the other day
in a question and answer theysaid like how do you, how do you
change a gym culture wherepeople are toxic and abusive and
(05:18):
blah, blah, blah.
You don't, you don't changethem right, because they aren't
going to change.
Oftentimes, like you can doeverything you want under the
sun.
If there's like some sort oflike clear abuse or clear issue,
you have to like go through thechannels to report them.
And then it's this whole bigdrama about like this person
doesn't report it.
It's not safe, it's not secure,it's not whatever.
I know I get it.
I've been involved in somesituations that are very sticky
(05:38):
and very stressful, but like youhave to go through the proper
channels and do an anonymousreport or do whatever if there's
something seriously concerningright Mandating reporting.
So that's like a very smallpercentage, right, that's like a
very tiny percent and thosepeople get dealt with.
What most people are dealingwith that they're frustrated
with is it's not like to thepoint of being a concerning
illegal, abusive, it's just mean.
It's just like painful to be apart of because of the gossip
(06:02):
and the bickering and the shadeand the comments behind your
back and the people who are justegotistical and don't want to
learn and think they know.
Stuff like that is what mostpeople get exhausted by.
So it's these situations whereyou know it's just tiring and
it's just like nobody wants tolearn, nobody wants to do
something different.
I don't feel like my voice isrespected.
I never get to share my ideas.
(06:22):
Everyone just kind of like,makes these side comments and
these gossips and blah, blah,blah.
And guess what?
Leave, leave the gym.
Leave the gym.
It is not worth your mentalhealth to be miserable at work.
Right, because you often spendat least 30% of your life
sleeping and 30% of your lifeworking, if not more, because
gymnastics is very involved in.
We want to do so much for thekids and whatever.
(06:43):
But if you're getting likeyou're part of a staff or
someone's making side commentsand is throwing shade your way
and is gossiping behind yourback, doesn't let you coach.
The way you want to coachdoesn't support your learning.
They don't want to change atall.
There are so many amazing gymsaround the country that are very
accommodating and very open andhave wonderful people.
I think 90% of the gyms that Iwork with are incredible, kind,
(07:04):
honest, wonderful, good peoplewho are wanting to do the right
thing and they're just trying toget by and trying to do the
best they can.
Right.
It's a very small percentagethat are truly like, exhausting
and miserable to work at.
But if you're serious aboutgymnastics whether it's being a
coach, medical parent for yourkid, whatever you owe it to
yourself to relocate or find agym that has those things Right.
(07:26):
And it's hard to move toresearch, to take a leap of
faith, to join a new gym Like Iget it, I've done it multiple
times Right.
But if you are serious aboutbeing in the sport as a career
and you want it to be yourentire life, every single day,
that you grind through themiserable existence of working
in a gym where it's not fun orit's toxic is not going to go
well, you're just choppingyourself in the foot, right.
(07:48):
You're just like, constantlycutting yourself down to be more
and more sad, more and moredepressed, more and more
frustrated, more and moreexhausted, right, and not feel
like your work is going anywhere.
So if your career is set ongymnastics in some way, shape or
form, move to another gym thatis in your area, or maybe it's a
move farther away.
But find the places that havegood people who will support you
(08:09):
and that it's enjoyable to workat.
If this is your career, okay.
The other thing I recommend topeople is that maybe it's just
pivoting your role withingymnastics as a whole.
So maybe, like coaching isexhausting for you and like
doing all that grind is not fun.
Maybe you want to judge, maybeyou want to be a technician,
maybe you want to work insupport staff, maybe you want to
try to do equipment stuff,maybe you want to go on the
(08:30):
rules committee right.
Maybe you want to try to manageor be involved in a gym at a
different level.
Maybe it's preschool, maybeit's rec, maybe it's lower level
comp, not high level comp.
Maybe elite is exhausting butyou want to try to do compulsory
or competitive like low levelpreteens.
It's more fun for you.
Think about the multiple spotsthat are in gymnastics that you
can be a part of judgingcoaching, uh, lower level
coaching, higher level coaching,recreational coaching, adult
(08:51):
gymnastics, technical chairthere's so much stuff that can
be involved Leo's and recruitingand equipment management
there's a bajillion differentroles that are coming up inside
of gymnastics.
So maybe you're just a littleburnt out with your current role
and you want to try somethingelse for a bit before you go
back or permanently move toanother role.
That is possibly an option tooas well.
And the third thing that isharsh, real to hear is that
(09:13):
maybe you just want to move onfrom gymnastics.
Maybe it's not a specificperson or a culture or a gossip
or whatever.
Maybe you just want to tryother stuff.
That's okay.
Maybe you just want to notcoach anymore after 10, 15 years
and maybe you want to go dosomething else with your life,
in a different profession, andyou're just beating yourself up
because you're you're, you don'twant to leave the sport.
Maybe you can still be involvedsomehow.
Maybe you can volunteer at agym while you work a different
(09:34):
craft or a hobby, right, like Ifind myself, I have too much ADD
and I love too many things toonly do gymnastics full time.
I love physical therapy, I lovegymnastics, but I also love my
family.
I love video games, I love AI,I love all sorts of other facets
that I'm enjoying myself with.
To just be all dedicated to onething and I oftentimes that,
sometimes I find I get tooover-involved.
I got to pull myself out a bitLike I just disappeared for
(09:55):
three months last summer becauseI was burnt out and I need time
and I need something else to dowith my personal life.
It's okay, right, but you haveto figure out.
Is it this gym that I need toleave?
Is it this role that I need toleave?
Or is it the sport that I needto leave?
Right, and that's all inside.
The people who are just like.
I get a lot of emails, a lot ofDMs from like it's exhausting,
no one's changing All I do, allthe work.
These people are toxic, it's soabusive, blah, blah, blah.
(10:17):
Okay, report them and leave,file a safe sport allegation
anonymously and then move onwith your life.
Right, you can't control theirpeople.
And stop killing yourself overthe fact that you're going to
change this one person who's hadan Eagle for 25 years and it's
just like throwing shade insidecomments.
That person is who.
They are right.
Don't waste your life trying tofix them or trying to change
them.
Okay, deal with the seriousallegations.
Try to do a little bit of workinside the gym, which I'll give
(10:39):
you some tips for next, and thenmove on, man.
Move on for your mental health.
Stop.
Stop just digging your owngrave trying to be there and fix
everybody.
It's not going to work.
Okay, so again, hopefully,that's a good balance of empathy
and I've been there and Iunderstand.
I want to help you slash toughlove to be a little accountable
for your own mental health.
Okay, now, that aside, if you'rein a gym where people are open
to change, it's just hard right,and they're open to trying new
(11:01):
ideas.
They're open to these things,but nobody knows what to do.
That is, that is a differentsituation, right?
So in those things when Iconsult with you know, teams,
elite, college, whatever andthey say, hey, we have this like
issue, girls aren't doing whatwe want, guys don't want to get
on stuff, it's hard frustrating,blah, blah, blah the first
place to start is with again,with empathy and reverse
engineering, why people are here.
Okay, so if you're on a teamthat's part of a coaching staff,
(11:24):
a college team, an elite team,you all have to agree upon the
same morals, ethics and goals,right, so you can have different
personalities.
You can have different stylesand swagger about how you do
stuff.
Different background,upbringing, personalities that's
totally cool, that's actually agood thing.
But you have to have the samecommon, uh, morals, ethics and
goals.
Okay, you have to all believein working hard and safety and,
(11:45):
uh, you know, being nice to eachother, respecting each other's
opinions, listening when someonetalks or being open to other
people's ideas right.
You have to have those commonsituations right and, in those
moments, right.
If you are slowly finding outthat somebody you hired is not
part of that and they're notreally like on board driving it,
well, that's the team leader'srole to hold that person
accountable.
If someone is constantlyshowing up late, berating other
(12:08):
people, not letting people talk,that is a team leader, a head
coach, a gym owner, whoever.
To hold that person accountableand say, hey, listen, we agree
upon these values, is like theseare our core values, like being
nice, working hard, beingrespectful, constantly learning
and listening to people whenthey talk.
Those things are important andjust some of your choices and
some of your actions right noware not in line with those
things.
So I'm just raising yourawareness to it, letting you
(12:29):
know no harm, no foul, but likewe have to keep an eye on this
right.
Then, if it happens again, thatperson has to be held
responsible or being heldaccounted for like hey, listen,
like talk to you about this once.
Now it's not happening.
So like, third time we're goingto have some serious problems
and you might be let go, likeget to make it that serious.
And then, of course, if ithappens, you have to have a
spine, let that person go and inthat situation, but what if
(12:49):
that person is the head coach?
What if that person is theperson who runs the gym?
What if that person is thenational team head coach?
That's where you start goingback to the first part of the
conversation is like is this gyma good fit for me?
Right, is this role a good fitfor me?
If I try to bring this concernto my gym owner and the gym
owner is the person who'sberating me and is making side
comments, is not running thebusiness?
(13:09):
Well, is not listening to thestaff and concerns and helping
get enough coaches, well, thatperson you can bring it to a
couple of times, but eventuallyyou, if they're not going to
change at all, it's time to moveon.
Right, because their gym isgoing to go up in flames, right,
if you constantly fire coachesand don't listen to coaches and
are not problem solving and arenot listening to people, that's
not a good leader.
You're dodging a bullet runaway as fast as you can, right,
(13:30):
but most times than not, 90% ofthe time I have these
conversations with people.
When you bring it to someone'sawareness and you say, like,
listen, you may not realize, but, but like, this is like this
thing.
This small thing is 90% of myfrustration, right, the fact
that I don't have a schedule andI don't have space on the floor
to set up drills for my eightkids and there's people running
through my runway is enormouslyfrustrating, right, and because
(13:51):
of this one thing it's making mylife miserable, like everything
I do is so frustrating and sostressful because I don't have
an extra set of hands to help mewith 20 kids, right, and most
people who are great leaders.
When you bring that up to go,wow, I didn't realize that, like
, that was such a big deal.
I just have so many thingsgoing on.
I'm trying to manage stuff, but, like, thank you for telling me
, let's work on some solutionshere.
Let's try to get you a juniorstaff member to help you for
that one event.
Let's.
(14:12):
Let's rearrange the rotationschedule.
Let's get you 15 minutes overhere, right, those things are
very sol and fixable if you'rebeing open, honest and it's
resting on a culture of respect,kindness, honesty, problem
solving, safety, all that kindof stuff.
Okay, so you have to be able toalign yourself with other people
(14:32):
who have those common valuesand then, on top of that, have
common goals.
The goal of our gym is to keepkids happy, healthy and pursue
their goals, whether that'srecreational or elite, national
team.
Okay, we can all align in thosegoals.
We can all align in thosemorals and those ethics.
We're going to keep circlingthese things when we make
choices.
Okay, that is the base of howto have a good culture change.
You bring up the fact that, hey,we have these values.
(14:53):
Do we have core values?
Let's make sure we have those.
If we do, we are drifting fromthese core values.
Right, the fact that we arearguing or bickering or allowing
kids to, whatever you know,there's a bajillion examples
here.
Um, we are drifting from ourcore values and we are not
aligned with our goals, right,based on safety and all we want
to do.
So we have to have as a, as ateam, figure out what's going on
(15:13):
there and oftentimes, insidethose hard conversations, inside
those open moments of what'sgoing on, a lot of things come
through that that implementchange.
Okay, then you have to act onthat change.
You have to put in small places, you know, this change here.
Or this 50 minute rotationschedule, or this staff, we're
going to hire this staff.
We're going to let go this.
This is what we're going to dodifferently in the summer, and
again back to if it doesn'tchange.
(15:38):
Got to move on, okay.
Got to thing that's reallyhelpful that I give people
education on as a third tip isto be empathetic and reverse
engineer what people want, okay.
So, even though you have thegoal of keeping kids happy,
healthy and whatever successful,inside that there are different
small little goals.
Right, for one person, onecoach, for example, they might
just want to learn a lot.
They might not feel like theyknow great technique.
They might really want to uptheir level of technical
(16:00):
knowledge to then be more, youknow, progressive towards level
six or level seven, or coachinga leader or whatever.
So, for one person, they reallycare a lot about the fact they
don't feel comfortable withtheir skill set.
They want to learn more.
For another coach, it might bethat they want to have x amount
of level nines and level 10s totry to make nationals as a team
goal to help kids fulfill theirgoal of scholarships.
Right, that might be another.
For a third person, it mightjust be that they want to have
(16:22):
the most incredible, amazingrecreational show with the kids
that are happy, the parents thatare happy, little kids loving
gymnastics.
Right, three different coacheswith three very different goals
and you have to reverse engineer.
Okay, you care about Con Ed,you care about level nines,
level tens, you care aboutpre-team and preschool
gymnastics.
Let's reverse engineer why youcare about those things and then
(16:44):
align our goals together on whywe should deal with this hard
problem.
Okay, so when you have thosethree different people, if you
don't dig into their mentalitywhether you're a head coach, a
gym owner or whatever andreverse engineer what other
people want, why are you in thesport?
Why are you working so hard asa coach or a parent?
I do this with kids all the time.
One kid wants you know, one kidwants to score.
One kid wants a national team,one kid wants to just not be
injured, right?
(17:04):
Reverse engineer what theirgoals are and be empathetic to
that and say listen.
Well, this is why we have tochange.
Okay, cause all three of thosecoaches for example, the, the
con ed coach, the level ninecoach and the preschool
gymnastics coach they all willbenefit from from education.
They will all benefit from somestaff training once per month
where you guys come in togetherand learn about whatever
(17:24):
technique, handstand, techniqueright, and the fact that that
con ed is valuable, somethingeverybody has to do.
That raises the cultural floorof it, right.
Open communication and honestyand respectfulness when you're
trying to go through yourcoaching, staffing stuff like
that helps all those goals, okay.
So maybe there's like somepersonality differences in the
team or there's some people whodon't drive very well on a team,
like that's okay, that's normal.
(17:44):
Not everybody loves everybody,but you can always be respectful
, you can always listen to whatpeople are saying, you can
always be kind to people, right,you can always do those things
and no matter what your goal is,all three of those things are
there.
So that's the cultural bedrockof um hey, we're always going to
be open and honest and careabout people and listen to their
ideas and not shoot them downwhen they bring it up.
Every single time adisagreement comes up or every
(18:05):
single time some friction comesup and it doesn't get handled
well, you say, hey, listen, likeyour choices, your actions
right now are not in line withthe values that we established,
are very important.
So they should be written downin a binder, they should be
slapped on the wall.
They should be, do whatever youwant, but like that glue at the
bottom of aligning yourcultural values, your
expectations, your goals, andthen having core values of
respect, honesty, caring,empathy, continuing education,
(18:27):
all that kind of stuff.
They have to be outlined andfollowed there.
The last thing I'll say here, ona parting note of
accountability, is the mostprogress in a cultural
progression comes fromindividuals being more
accountable for themselves.
Okay, oftentimes outside thegym, okay, the biggest cultural
headaches I ever see come whensomebody has a personal level
(18:49):
issue and it's bleeding into thegym.
Okay, so somebody has, forexample, on their personal life
they're not very healthy, right,they don't eat well, they don't
sleep well, they don't work out, they're not setting a good
example and they bring that intothe gym when they're sick, when
they're tired, when they're notkeeping up with their education
, when they're just exhausted.
All the time they can't keep upwith spotting, right, that
person has a personal levelissue that's bleeding in.
(19:10):
So I have many examples in mylife where my ego when I was a
younger coach and my insecuritycaused me to whiplash and be
more aggressive and yell at thegym.
Right, I own that.
I've gone through that.
I'm on the other side of it.
I'm a constant work in progress, but everybody has some
personal level stuff they haveto figure out.
It's not your job as a coach ora teammate to like tell that
person to fix it, but you haveto just be aware of that in
(19:32):
yourself.
Okay.
So if you have your own issueswith an old body image, eating
disorder type thing when youwere in college or when because
the time back then was terribleyou can't let that bleed through
in a personal level issue thatcomes out in your own work life
right.
If you have insecurities, ifyou have fears, if you have
family drama, if you haveaddictions alcohol right.
(19:53):
Like drugs, like social media,like if you have the need for
external validation and that'scausing you to act a different
way, you got to handle your shit, man.
Like.
That's just no way.
More bluntly to put it Like, ifyou want to be the best coach,
the best parent, the bestmedical provider, the best
athlete, you have to spend timeauditing what is?
What's the personal leveldemons that I have around, fears
and insecurities.
(20:13):
What am I doing?
Maybe that's causing me not toact?
Great, and how do I fix thosethings?
Everyone has a differentapproach.
Some people want therapy, somepeople want to have a long chat
with their best friends, somepeople want to journal their
life away, and that's fine.
But whatever it is, you have tohave some level of personal
development and personalaccountability for how your
outside life is affecting yourinside life in the gym and your
career.
If the best changes I see inprograms and that I've had in my
(20:35):
own gym in our area is wheneach individual person says, hey
, we're going to work onourselves a bit here and bring
the best version of ourselves tothis program and we're all
going to kind of have thatawkward, tough conversation with
ourselves or others to figureout what are some of the things
that we can improve upon.
Whether it's, uh, education,whether it's a little bit of an
ego, whether it's a littleaddicted to social media,
whether it's not being the mosthealthiest outside the gym,
(20:55):
whatever it is, all those thingsare very to deal with.
So those are all the things Ithink you should think about.
You should think about is thisgym a good fit?
Is this role a good fit?
Is the sport a good fit for me?
Beyond that, what are our corelevel morals, values and ethics
that we have in common goals?
Okay.
Beyond that is, how do we haveopen, honest conversations that
are respectful and deal with thethings head on right?
(21:18):
Then, beyond that, what thingscan I do for myself to improve
on my own insecurities, my ownfears and bring the best version
of myself to the gym?
Okay.
And if none of those things aregoing well in your gym and
nobody wants to change andnobody wants to do, it is not
worth your mental health andyour emotional health to stay
there and poison the well.
Okay.
So try your best.
I always encourage opendiscussion with empathy and
honesty.
(21:38):
Do everything you possibly can,but if it's, if you're just
slamming your head against thewall and the person will not
change or a group of people willnot change.
There's a thousand gyms outthere.
There's a thousand things to doout there.
Life is much, much bigger thanjust gymnastics, okay.
So again, hopefully this is agood blend of empathy and
kindness and wanting to help you, because I've been through it,
but also some tough love onaccountability and just some
things you have to do.
So everyone who asked me aboutcultural issues, I'm going to
(22:01):
point them to this episode andhopefully something in here will
help.
We've done very large, deepdives on other podcasts with Eva
Van Ness sorry, eva Shute, Ican't be sure I didn't make a
name Eva Shute and many otherpeople and college coaches and
club coaches about deep culturalchanges.
So if you want more, there isplenty on the other side of the
docket, but I just wanted tokeep this one to 20 minutes or
so to help summarize for people.
(22:23):
So hope people enjoyed thisepisode and we'll see you on the
next one.
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