June 30, 2025 • 36 mins
I had the pleasure of speaking with filmmaker Josh David Jordan about his new movie El Tonto Por Cristo. It’s a black-and-white art film set in a Texas monastery — poetic, strange, and deeply moving. What struck me most is how the film weaves together powerful Orthodox imagery, the mystery of the holy fool, all with a totally unique visual language. This isn’t just a message movie — it’s real cinema.
Check out the Kickstarter and be part of bringing this movie to theaters. This is a rare and important project.
El Tonto Por Cristo: A Cinematic Meditation. An Orthodox film set in a Texas monastery. Help bring this black-and-white story of beauty, holiness, & mystery to theaters worldwide.
https://www.eltontoporcristo.com/
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/748841722/el-tonto-por-cristo-a-cinematic-meditation
Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/pbM5VN9YvCE
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Check out the Kickstarter and be part of bringing this movie to theaters. This is a rare and important project.
El Tonto Por Cristo: A Cinematic Meditation. An Orthodox film set in a Texas monastery. Help bring this black-and-white story of beauty, holiness, & mystery to theaters worldwide.
https://www.eltontoporcristo.com/
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/748841722/el-tonto-por-cristo-a-cinematic-meditation
Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/pbM5VN9YvCE
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But your movie has within the aesthetics of the movie.
So it's like the very way the move the story
is told and the very way it's shot, and some
of the images embed the Holy Fool structure in it.
So it's not like, you know, you're using a nice
kind of normal way of people the way people modern
cinema audience looks at a movie like, here's just a
(00:22):
frame a box and I'm watching a story. But you
use aesthetic means in the story to bring about the thing,
and so there's a there's an interesting modern aspect to
what you're doing. But that's why I think the movie
is so it's so particular because of that, because it
because the very means by which you tell the story
are making you experience what it is the movie's about.
(00:56):
This is Jonathan Peshel. Welcome to this and all the world.
Hello everyone, I am here with Josh David Jordan. Josh
is a Texan filmmaker. You can tell just by looking
(01:19):
at him he has just put out his not put
out like he just finished his second feature film, which
is called Altanto po Cristo. It is a really beautiful
and poetic exploration of this imagery around the Holy fool
and kind of this edge of the world symbolism of
this monastery in Texas. It's a very beautiful movie. I
(01:41):
had the chance to see with Richard Rowland Deacon Seraphim,
maybe a few months ago and was kind of blown away.
I've been following this movie for several months for like
a year now, I think, you know, I met Josh before,
and I'd seen a kind of rough cuff cut of
the movie, but finally seeing the final movie was really
quite And so Josh is doing something that is wild.
(02:04):
It's it's a monastery in Texas. It is it has
this kind of southern feeling to it, but it also
is very It has all of this beautiful poetic approach.
Like Igmar Bergmann and Tarkowsky, it really is an art movie.
And so I decided to get involved in any way
I could to help promote this because it's definitely worth
(02:25):
your time. And they are right now doing a kickstarter
where they're hoping to do a theatrical release, and so
they need some funds to be able to get the
movie out there so people can see it. And there
are all kinds of amazing tiers where you can you
can participate, have your name, the credits. You can you know,
there's the top tiers. You will fly out and you
can watch a movie with with Richard Deacon, Seraphim and
(02:47):
I and Josh and stuff. So, so, Josh, thanks for
coming on and tell us a little bit about like
why you made this crazy movie in the first place.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, what an intro. I'd take you everywhere I go though.
I felt really good. Can you accomplished a lot today
after that?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So you know, El Tanto for Christo came about really
from me almost not wanting to make a film like this.
So I've been orthodox for eleven years now. I was
a filmmaker before. From Dallas, Texas. I'll even go way back.
My dad was a traveling evangelist growing up, and so
(03:25):
we were on the actual road with my dad. We
were in a station wagon. Me and my brother were
polyester three piece suits. We opened up. We were part
of the act, act, the part of the service, and
in between that there was a lady named Gerald Deane.
She looked like Loretta Lynn and she had a puppet
named Ricky. They went on and then my dad, would
(03:46):
you know, close the White Center Revival down and we
go onto the next town, and as a kid, you
only know what you know, you know. So my dad
was an actor before he became a preacher in high
school and in college. So maybe genetically that's why I
was attracted to it, because I would always find the
puppeteer at the vacation Bible school or the summer camp
(04:06):
or the church. And then obviously being the opening act
for a lady who was eventual reloquest. She gave me
my first puppet, and so I was always in this
world of imagination. My dad said they'd be traveling, you know,
ten hours driving I would pop up from the back
seat and.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Just do a whole show, a whole puppet show.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
And you know, growing up like that, this is you know,
this is the eighties, and so we're in the backwoods
of Mississippi. I'm not really even watching TV really, but
I knew I was drawn to this theatrical thing, this drama,
you know. And they talked about Noah's Ark and I
could see. I saw it, you know, I saw how
it looked. And you know, fast forward, You're in the
(04:45):
middle of nowhere and I'm not in la or New York.
And to be there you had to go to like
NYU or a USC to do film because it was
film back then. It wasn't digital, and so the closest
thing I could do was really acting. So I went
to Universus Missouri, I did acting, came back to Dalla,
I was in feature films. I did the sitcom, went
out to LA and did the sitcom scrubs for an
(05:07):
episode or two, and the commercial work.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And there was.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Something like I felt like something was lacking, like I
wasn't a part of the storytelling because you're there for
a day and people are there for you know, the
months and months and a year's editing. And I didn't
know that I wanted to be a director until I
started making music videos and then I started making short films,
and then I was like, well, let's just make a
feature film.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
So I made this role Won't Break, which.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Is about a Dallas, Texas singer songwriter who doesn't make
it and how it all comes about and how most
of my work comes about. As my wife, I was
watching Netflix one night and I was just scrolling like
we all do, and she was like, what do you
want to watch? I said, I want to watch a
movie about a country singer who doesn't make it. You know,
we have the Fall from Grace, you know the old
Guy where we have the guy who makes it and
(05:52):
he plays the theater. I was like, what about the
guy who wakes up and he's forty years old and
he's still playing bars?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
What does he do?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
What's that movie? And she goes, why don't you make it?
And so challenge accepted. We went and made it, and
I realized I was able to make feature films and
that people wanted to see them, and that film.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Traveled the world.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
We went to Australia, went to Ireland, Scotland, and this
whole time I'm orthodox and I'm planning my next films.
But in the services, I would look around at these
icons and my mind would wander a little bit. I'm like, well,
what's the story there? What's the story there? And I
start reading books. Then I'm really reading The Desert Fathers.
(06:37):
I'm really reading about the Fool for Christ. I'm just
like become obsessed with this and I'm writing, I'm reading
and I'm reading. I'm not even writing yet, I'm just reading.
And then I'm realizing I can't focus on these other
projects that I want to make because I feel like
I need to make this film. And the thing that
dawned on me was like, you know, I'm a convert.
(06:57):
I've only been Orthodox for at this time it was
nine years, and I'm like, am I orthodox enough to
make a film about a holy fool?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I don't think I am.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
But I realized, like Jess said, the world that I
live in an orthodoxy here in Texas. You have a
monastery here in Texas and there's only two nuns there
and we go out there and help moull the yard.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And it's Texas.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You know, men and knights live next door, and they
they help out in just a whole nother world.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
And I was like, well, that's my Orthodox world. I
can make that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And I started looking around, and you know, because you
want to look for things as artists, as inspiration examples,
and there just wasn't anything out there. And when I
would talk about it, it did see foreign and that's
when it clicked, because I love foreign films. I love
European cinema, and you know, I love Wings of Desire,
I love The Seventh Seal, I love Ordette. These are
(07:53):
all films and when you watch Al Tanto per christa,
if you're a lover of films and a cenophile, and
like those Tearan style films, you'll see the inspiration in there,
because it's just like it just flooded through and it
was a subconscious thing. I remember I was We're filming
a scene in the movie. It's the kitchen scene when
they're baking in the bread, and it wasn't working because
(08:14):
I had it like a Bergmann film. It was in
my brain and it wasn't working. It was becoming really
really funny and it was humorous, and our lot we
were losing the lighting, and I remember my actor pulled
me aside and he goes, I think you're trying to
get a certain thing across.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
He's like, just let it go. He's like, it feels
like this is like dead Man, like Jim Jarmusch's Dead Man.
He was just let it be.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Let this be your own film. And that was on
day like three, and it just opened up the doors.
And I think if it wasn't for Frank Mosley, who's
a phenomenal actor, really saying that, and he's you know,
he's not Orthodox, he's not even Christian, but he was
so moved I think by the process the reverence of
(08:57):
how things were going, and he was like, just roll
with it.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
So that was a long winded way of saying with Altanta.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
For Cristo, how it came about maybe yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
And so.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
When I watched the film, in some ways that you
hinted at it already is that there's something very surprising
about the clash of the different images in some ways
the style of the movie. For people who've seen the
seen clips or images of it, it's a black and
white movie. You know, it's a very composed movie. It
has that that like, it has the kind of composition,
(09:30):
the styles of composition that you see like in a
Bergmann film where there's this black and white, uh, this
kind and it helps because the monks are dressed in black.
You know, there's something about already the setting that makes
it very beautiful and very interesting to look at. But
that clashes with this kind of sweaty Dallas, you know,
feeling of the and then you know there there's a
(09:53):
fish shack and there's this whole sense of right, it's
like this really and so you have all of these
these rising clashes, which seems to go well with the
kind of holy fool imagery, but you know, what was
your I guess my question is it's like, what attracted
you to this foolishness, like this sense of the because
(10:14):
people you have people I haven't seen yet, but there's
it really is in some ways it's it's one of
the most surprising and deep explorations of imagery of folly
in the context of a monastery that I that I've seen.
So what attracted you to that particular type of the
carnival kind of foolish imagery that you bring into the movie?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
You know, I think it's like, you know, it goes
back to my childhood. It was like I was almost
in a carnival in a way.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, you said that, like when you talked about the
puppeteering and your dad minister.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
It's like, yeah, And I think it was, you know,
and there was a lot of uh, you know, it's
very evangelical and it was very theatrical, and but you know,
I think if I wasn't doing that, if I wasn't
doing acting, if it was like back in the day
as a vaudeville, I'd probably run away with the circus.
That's just how my mind got how I really see
the world. You know, I'm not a scholar, you know,
(11:04):
I'm not an intellect in that type of way, but
I do visualize and see and I think, you know,
being in the theater as an actor, being an actor based,
you really can't have any pride per sale on the stage.
You know, you are sort of a fool, you are
sort of a clown. You are entertaining the audience. And
(11:29):
so that part made sense to me. When I read
about saints, I was always attractive to the ones who
did wild things like you know, climbing a tree and
not coming down, and living in a tree and sleeping
in a tree and just praying for some reason, that
makes sense to me, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
And you know, it's like that.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I always tell my wife, I'm like, whenever I'm writing
and creating, if someone were to take my phone and
listen to my voice memos, they would put me in
a mental institution, because I do the characters' voices before
I write everything down. I act things out. It's really
how my brain works. And so when I would you know,
I was just reading so much about the Desert Fathers
(12:10):
and about the fools for Christ, and it made me
understand Christ. It made me understand God and that's maybe
a broad way to say it, but in a simple way,
that's how I really understand it. I understand foolishness. I mean,
I feel like, you know, forgive me, father, I'm a fool.
(12:32):
That's something that I say time and time again. Not
that I'm trying to be a fool for Christ, but
I'm just like man, I am sometimes just an idiot.
And you know, that word is used a lot in
drama and in writing and stuff, and it totally makes
sense because there's a comedy to it. You know, when
people act bizarre or strange, it's borderline humor and comedy.
(12:53):
But in that is one step over. It's you know,
it's seriousness and drama and very focused. I always go
back to like Robin Willilliams, who was like the funniest
person in the world, but he also was like a
very quiet, deep thinker, you know, and it's there, You're
walking this fine line, and this is something so attracted
to that to me, and I really wanted to make
sure that the audience was enjoying themselves. And so what
(13:16):
better than to be able to freely write for a
Texas monastery on this coast with this fool for Christ
who's played by Matthew Posey, father John, and just watching
his exploration from being a fool to being Yeah, I
don't want to give away any spoilers.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Yeah, but so.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
The movie. So the movie is fascinating because in some ways,
you know, we talk about we're talking about it as
if it's an Orthodox film. Okay, this is not an
Orthodox film, Like this is a film, and it's not
a there's no, there's absolutely. One of the things that
attracted me to it is that the message or whatever
message there is, is embedded within the the entire esthetics
(14:01):
and the entire uh, you know, the story itself. There's
no how can I say it's not an evangelical film
the way that a lot of Christian films are. It
really is just a beautiful film. And so I was
curious to get a sense of because now that you
probably had quite a few people watch it, You've got
people that are in the church, that are outside of
the church, people that are that are maybe some Orthodox,
(14:23):
some Christians that aren't Orthodox, and then some people that
are completely secular. And have you seen how do people
react to it?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Like?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
What is what has been people's take from these different
slices of reality.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
No, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
You know, it really does seem like as of right now,
because the film hasn't been released wider, like you said,
it's only been screened, uh privately, maybe a handful of times.
And we have the big showing which had some of
our investors who are not Orthodox. And that's something else
as the majority of the patrons of the arts, the
(14:56):
big patrons of the arts of this film are not Orthodox,
some are not even Christian.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I think that.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
They saw the the what art we were producing. We
did sort of a look book. We did a test
with Matthew Posey, and we filmed some stuff so people
could see what it's going to feel like. They loved
the idea that it was going to be shot in
this one six six to one ratio, black and white,
a nod to European cinema, and they were all in.
(15:23):
You know a lot of people have questioned that are Orthodox.
It's get We get lots of messages and it's you know,
has this film been blessed?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Is this film orthodox enough? Is that? You know?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And I get where they're coming from, Like, who's this
based on? How is this fictional?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
You know? How is this.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
That's the one thing that I was I think because
it hasn't been done in America before, which is a narrative,
fictional feature. Most things that we see in the Orthodox world,
as you know, is documentary and they're like mainly made
in Greece or Russia, and they're beautiful and I love
those things, but you know, Orthodoxy is young in America,
(16:05):
and I wanted to put my you know, fingerprint on
making narrative features. You know, there's the Russian film Ostrof.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, that's the biggest I was just thinking about that movie.
I was thinking, if you want to compare your movie
to a movie that exists, that is the one to
compare it to. In the sense that it's a fictional
story about a monk, it also has this holy fool
aspect to it, and so it's not like there is
no precedent for this, Like there are precedents for these
types of stories. But your vision is, how can I
(16:36):
say that it's like this is hard? I think people
will understand. It's like ostrov is a beautiful film about
about this character that is ambiguous to many people, and
it's kind of acting in a kind of holy ful
way and it's affecting people's lives. So it's a really
it's worth watching. Everybody should watch. That movie's beautiful. But
your movie has within the aesthetics of the movie, so
(16:58):
it's like the very way the mo the story told
and the very way it's shot, and some of the
images embed the Holy Fool structure in it. So it's
not like, you know, you're using a nice kind of
normal way of people the way people a modern cinema
audience looks at a movie like, here's a just a
frame a box, and I'm watching a story. But you
(17:19):
use aesthetic means in the story to bring about the thing,
and so there's a there's an interesting modern aspect to
what you're doing. But that's why I think the movie
is so it's so particular because of that, because it
because the very means by which you tell the story
are making you experience what it is the movie's about.
I don't know if you see the difference between what
(17:41):
I'm trying to bring about.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Sure, and I think a big thing and the thing
that was always uh you know, written in ink was
it was going to be in black and white, and
a lot of people are like, why is this in
black and white, even like a lot of producers or
distribution companies at first were like, because when I was
doing it black and white, wasn't this big thing that
now has kind of taken off. Like there's been the
TV show Ripley that was in black and white, The
(18:06):
Lighthouse was light house, and then the Romo which won
Academy Awards is a Catholic film called Eta by a
Polish director, which is a phenomenal It won the Academy
Award is in black and white, and I wanted that
was so important to me to make it black and white.
Was if anyone's ever been inside of a cathedral or
an Orthodox church, the icon the iconography is gorgeous. You know,
(18:30):
all of the the you know, the candle the candle
obbers and the candle holders. You have the smell of
the incense, you're constantly moving. It's you know, you're participating
in that way. And I wanted to take away all
of that, you know, and not rely on because we
can as filmmakers or as artists just be like that
shot so beautiful because because of the color, but it
(18:52):
does not help your film. It doesn't push the film along.
And the narrative along. You've you've sort of you've cheated
the audience in a way, right, And I think making
this black and white, the audience almost participates and they're
watching the story and it's not about like you said,
it's not about Orthodoxy. It's about these men who are
at this monastery, and you know, there's not a lot
(19:15):
of them. That was something that was really important to
me because the monasteries I go to here in Texas,
there's not a lot of it, not.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
A lot of monks in Texas.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
No, you know, I've never I haven't gone yet. We're
going this year to Greece and you know, I'll get
a chance to go to Mount Athos. I haven't been there,
and I'm glad that i haven't been before making this film.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, there's also something else like that. I'm going to
say this and probably people are gonna get annoyed with me,
But there's also because of the fact that there aren't
many monks in North America, there is a very particular
thing that happens, which is that not all the monasteries,
but some of the monasteries end up being a very strange,
(19:58):
ragtag group of very quirky people. That end up becoming
monkst in North America, whereas in countries where there's a
lot of monasteries, you know, things kind of even out.
But here in America, some of the monasteries they there's
some really uh very strange, strange, strange people that end
up in those places.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, that was, that was and that was really important
to me. And as uh some a priest also said,
you know, I've been an abbot of a monastery for
a very long time, and uh, you nailed the monastery.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
And I was like, okay, good.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I was a little bit worried, you know, and it
was all you know, lots of grace just writing and
reading things and letting it subconsciously. You know, as an
artist you just have to let things subconsciously come out
and you tell yourself, is this wrong or this ride?
Or will the audience like that? And that's something that
I really had to you know, throw out the window.
Was is the audience going to love this? Is the
(20:56):
orthodox audience going to love this? Our produence protests is
going to get drawn to this? How to really just
knock all those things out and just make a film,
you know, make a feature film, make an art film,
and that was that was the most important because I
think if you do that, then truth will come out
for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
And so what can I say? This's like I'm still
wanting to get a few sense of the reaction to
the people like that. Let your your investors when they
watch it, like what was there? How did they react?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
What?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
How did they see this? Like what because if a
lot of them weren't even Christian, weren't Orthodox, how did
they perceive? Like did they get were they missing some
of the cues? It's hard to see from the like
from the outside because you have our own perspective, like
were they able to follow everything? Like was something so
esoteric that they couldn't really catch her?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
It's so wild because the non Orthodox or non Christians,
mainly non Orthodox people who've watched it have never said
that they were ever confused.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
They totally grasped the picture.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I've had several Orthodox say that they need to watch
it again.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I've had several Orthodox people say.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Well, some of those things didn't seem very orthodox that
were happening in the film. And maybe I've never a
lot of people have said like I've never seen orthodoxy
like that before. And maybe it's because they have their
own bubble of how they've perceived Orthodoxy, if they've been
you know, cratle or if they've been a convert or
however it's been. We all have our different takes on it.
(22:31):
But if you're not Orthodox, you're almost watching it like
it's the Seventh Seal or wings of Desire. You're not
coming into it seeing if things are correct or if
things are right or wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
But we did. I mean, as you know, we had
a lot of counsel in this film.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
We had priests and bishops and the Metropolitan. We had
a lot of people reading the script giving notes. We
had someone there every single day. Father theophon was there
every single day making sure everything that was liturgical was liturgical.
We have, you know, our composer Michael Paris Gavis, who
(23:07):
has just come off the Disney show Agatha all along.
His dad was the choir director at Saint Saraphin for
forty years and you know he's Orthodox.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah, But the way the music is a big part
of this movie, you know, because it was interesting. I
watched the early cut of it, you know, and I
could kind of get it, but when it came together
with the music, it really it really ties everything together.
The score is really well done.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, he Michael wanted to.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
We talked about having like an American Gothics sound at Texas,
a little bit of an appellation sounds. There's banjo, but
there's also banjo and semtron, and then we have my
wife's in the band, the Polyphonic Spree, and so we
had the Polyphonic Spree Choir sing on parts, and then
we had the Saint saraph From Choir sing on parts.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
So there's this back and forth.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
It's how I feel as a Texas Orthodox is You're
still have your roots, You're still you have your Southern roots,
but you're also entering into Orthodoxy, and you know, how
does that look?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
It looks different.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
When I was first orthodox where there's a film festival
down in Victoria, Texas, and it was during uh Pasca.
It was during a Holy week and we had gone
to service and I was new, it was newly Uh
we're catechumens at this time.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And I walk in.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Everyone's got beards and you know, they're uh there's chanting
involved and they're singing, and the main priest comes over
to say hi to me, and I'm thinking in my brand.
I'm thinking he's either Greek or he's Russian. And he's like,
what are y'all doing in town? And it was just
like it's you know, it's so jarring in this. He's like,
y'all want to eat? We have some Chilian core you
(24:50):
corn bread, and you're just like, oh, man, I love that.
And that's what you when you go back to why
did I choose the Full for Christ?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Or why is it Texas, it's just this.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I love things that are abstract and things that are constant,
you know, I love things that are you know, both
at the same time. So yeah, I think with with
some Protestants, you know, I think it's more.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
It's foreign. It's foreign to them as well.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
There's a lot of Catholic people who are really really
excited that have watched it, that are that are really
really moved by it. So I'm really you know, I'm
really interested as you are to see like what everyone's
going to really really think, because like you said, it's
you said I think once this is a dangerous film
in a good way, and I think that's the kind
of cinema I'm drawn to. And I think a lot
(25:42):
of people like to go watch something that you participate
and you're gonna you drive home and you're you're processing it.
And that's what a lot of people who are not
Orthodox have said. They said, I've been thinking about your film, Josh.
It's really beautiful and I'm ready to watch it again.
So that's encouraging to me for sure.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
One of the things that happens that when you watch
the movie, for sure, is you know, it's it's a
demanding film, Like it demands of you because there are
something that it doesn't give you, right, and it kind
of takes you long, and then it doesn't hand them
to you like you actually have to go get them.
And then once you get them, you realize, oh, and
(26:17):
then things kind of come together and you can see
the image you know, let's say, coming together. So it's
a demanding film, but it also is this it smashes
things together that, like you said, people aren't used to
seeing being put together. So you have this kind of
home grown sense of Texas, you know, this kind of
(26:39):
you know, rural feeling of Texas, right, and then that
is smashed. Like on top of that, you have this
sense of Orthodoxy and of liturgical practice and the monastic life.
And then on top of that, you have this whole weird,
kind of fool for Christ carnival imagery for people who
don't know there's actually like an actual little person who's
a monk in the movie that you know, and so
(27:00):
it brings that adds all this kind of sense of
a like like, yeah, like an old, old style carnival.
I won't I don't want to give things away, but
there are a lot of these elements kind of coming
in together. And then on top of that you have
this whole kind of European vision of cinema of like
Tarkowsky and Bergmann, a kind of surrealist element as well,
(27:21):
you know, this visionary cinema approach to It's like, I
don't never seen anything like it. I don't like when
I try to explain it, it's like it's just all
these layers. But it doesn't. But in the end it
comes together as an experience that is quite powerful and beautiful,
but it will be it is demanding of people. It's
not this is not popcorn cinema. This is this is art.
(27:42):
This is an art film.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, there's times even the opening scene and this is
no spoiler, but it's The opening scene is an eight
minute long take. There's no cuts, and I've had several
people have said, like I was waiting for it to
cut and turn and see Father John, but you never
never let us, and it sets a precedent for the
film to say, like, sit back, you know, there's not
gonna be you know the Marvel two three second cuts
(28:05):
every you know, every five seconds that we're really gonna
we're gonna sit with this, almost like theater. But you
did touch on something when you said you talked about
the small person, the little person Seraphim in the film,
and he's based on Saint John the Dwarf. And so
when people do talk to me and they say, well,
(28:27):
is this you know, is this orthodox based?
Speaker 3 (28:29):
All the of the Fool for Christ.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
And all the monks in the movie are based on stories.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Of the Orthodox saints.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
There's nothing that I made up besides dialogue that was
did not pertain to some some things just filling in
the gaps of dialogue, and but anything that is spiritual
in the film, anything that's full for Christ driven, those
were all taken from from stories.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
And it was such an honor.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And it was it's a blast for me to be
able to take those stories that we all know and
it's like an easter egg. The people who are Orthodox
have been coming up to me and being like, oh
is this that scene? Is that because of Saint John
of Shanghai or you know. We start to break things
down and it's a conversation and then say, I need
to watch it again because I think I missed I
(29:20):
think I missed that scene like when he's doing the
there's a silent film scene when he's in the cathedral
and he's doing his his gifts that's taken from Orthodox
stories as well.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
About it, Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's every like like I said,
we don't want to spoil it, but there's like there
really is. Because the thing is that you think also,
like you said, we already already hinting in this, is
that you have this sense of okay, it's called the
Fool for Christ, right, But then by the time the
movie's over, you're actually like, well, wait a minute, who
is the fool? Who's the Fool for Christ? Actually, then
(29:54):
you realize that it's actually a smashing together of all
these little kind of Christian folly, layers of images that
have kind of been brought together and so anyway, so
we'll let people discover it on their own. But yeah,
so that's also part of kind of the And it's
something that I think a lot of people it'll come
(30:14):
to them later. They'll watch it and then you're sitting
at home and you're like, oh, wait a minute, I
thought I got that, and then it's like no, no,
these other images are kind of layering themselves into your
memory and you realize there's something that you you kind
of saw but you didn't really completely understand. So it's
a yeah, I think it's definitely a movie that warrants evil,
will warrant for several people that aren't fifty, people that
(30:36):
aren't used to watching kind of art films and are
used to just being handed everything, like, they'll probably want
to watch it more than once.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, it's so bizarre, Like you probably all the same
way here, Jonathan. But like a lot of the stuff
that I create art and stuff like that, it's like
I can go back and watch it.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Sometimes it could be a little cringey.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Because of something maybe I was going as dated, or
or maybe I wish I would that's always the of
his ours.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I wish I would have done this.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It's so bizarre with this film that I love watching
it with audiences. I love watching it because even I
watch it and I find new things that I guess
was a subconscious move from the actor, or from my cinematographer,
or from me, or maybe I wrote it a certain way.
But being so busy making the film, being so busy
(31:23):
like editing, doing the sound design, now promoting it, now,
you know, raising the money to put it into theatrical release.
I can watch it as an audience member, and I'm
really excited to keep watching it with people and talking
to people about it, because, yeah, I have a lot
of questions.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So folks, I would say, you know, we're going to
put the link to the Kickstarter in in the uh
in the description.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
You know, we talk.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
About culture on this podcast. We talk about art, we
criticize the current state of artistic production. We're also trying
to ourselves kind of create new things, beautiful things, powerful
things that are that are going to transform culture. And
so this is a great possibility for you to participate
(32:10):
in a beautiful, powerful movie that is that is being made,
you know, to be a part of it, to be
able to help advance a new vision of culture, a
new way of doing things and one that isn't naive
but is deeply ingrained in everything we can learn from cinema,
from from from our tradition, all of this kind of
brought together as a vision of what of what's possible.
(32:32):
And so really, folks, I encourage you to go there.
And it's cool because some of the tiers are really participative.
You get to have your name in the credits, you
get to you know, have a special credit on IMDb.
You you know, like I said, it's they're really being
generous with what they're offering for people to h to
participate in this. So this is a chance to uh
to uh yeah, to not to not just be in
(32:53):
despair of what's happening around us in the state of culture,
but participate in in the future. So so and check
this out. And Josh, thank you for thank you for
doing this. You put a lot on the line.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
To do this.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
You kind of you know, obviously you know you were
able to get through it. It's people don't understand how
insane it is to make a movie on your own,
Like it's cleally crazy. So yeah, thank you for holding
the vision and getting that done. And so maybe give
people a last yeah, last sense of what it is
you're hoping to see, like what you want to see happen,
(33:26):
and yeah, and then we'll let people go to the Kickstarter.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
I think it's really exciting that this is something that
hasn't been done before we talked about, which is a
North American fictional narrative feature with the background of Orthodoxy.
And it's very important to watch this in a cinema.
I think, you know, we all get distracted.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I do too.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I have the Criterion Channel, and I get distracted, you know,
grabbing a snack or checking on the pizza or looking
at your phone. This film really does demand your attention,
like you're going to the opera or going to the theater.
And so you can be a part of this Kickstarter
and by just donating, you can purchase a ticket and
if it's not coming into your town, you can have
(34:05):
a live screening event where we're going to show it
on your computer on your TV and I'll take questions.
But yeah, we're trying to get this thing in most
cities in the US, and then we're going to go overseas.
We'll be in Romania and Greece this November, and so
we're building towards that, and really, I think it's going
(34:26):
to be fun because we're also doing a vinyl record
that'll have the soundtrack.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
It's a double vinyl. It'll have the music that's not
even in the movie.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
It'll have stuff from Saint Sarah from chuir'll have dialogue
like Walt Disney used to put out in those Disney movies.
Able to have the dialogue from the movie. So there's
so much exciting things that are happening. And if everyone
just shares this and then goes and brings friends and
discusses this film, it really will, I think, transform the
landscape of what else can come from that other people following.
(34:56):
You know, I feel like I have a machete and
I'm there was no pass to this, and I'm making
it a machete and hopefully people will follow along.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
And we can keep creating beautiful art.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, and like you know, like you hinted at one
of the lowest tiers on the Kickstarter, it's like pretty
much the price of a ticket. It's like twenty dollars.
You know, you get exclusive VIP showing of the of
the movie, and so it's like if you even plan
to even just see this movie. Like, just go and
support the kickstarter and it'll help them be able to
(35:26):
participate in the Theatrica release. So, Josh, thanks for everything.
And I'm excited to see this come out and I'm
looking forward to seeing it again. I mean I've watched
it only once completely finished, and hopefully we'll get that done.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah, thank you for being a part of it.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
It really means a lot, and I'm excited for everybody
to finally see Altanta per Cristo.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
All right, thanks, all right, bye bye.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
If you enjoyed these videos and podcasts, please go to
the Symbolic World dot com website and see how you
can support what we're doing. There are multiple subscriber tiers
with perks. There are apparel in books to purchase. So
go to the Symbolic World dot com and thank you
for your support.
But your movie has within the aesthetics of the movie.
So it's like the very way the move the story
is told and the very way it's shot, and some
of the images embed the Holy Fool structure in it.
So it's not like, you know, you're using a nice
kind of normal way of people the way people modern
cinema audience looks at a movie like, here's just a
(00:22):
frame a box and I'm watching a story. But you
use aesthetic means in the story to bring about the thing,
and so there's a there's an interesting modern aspect to
what you're doing. But that's why I think the movie
is so it's so particular because of that, because it
because the very means by which you tell the story
are making you experience what it is the movie's about.
(00:56):
This is Jonathan Peshel. Welcome to this and all the world.
Hello everyone, I am here with Josh David Jordan. Josh
is a Texan filmmaker. You can tell just by looking
(01:19):
at him he has just put out his not put
out like he just finished his second feature film, which
is called Altanto po Cristo. It is a really beautiful
and poetic exploration of this imagery around the Holy fool
and kind of this edge of the world symbolism of
this monastery in Texas. It's a very beautiful movie. I
(01:41):
had the chance to see with Richard Rowland Deacon Seraphim,
maybe a few months ago and was kind of blown away.
I've been following this movie for several months for like
a year now, I think, you know, I met Josh before,
and I'd seen a kind of rough cuff cut of
the movie, but finally seeing the final movie was really
quite And so Josh is doing something that is wild.
(02:04):
It's it's a monastery in Texas. It is it has
this kind of southern feeling to it, but it also
is very It has all of this beautiful poetic approach.
Like Igmar Bergmann and Tarkowsky, it really is an art movie.
And so I decided to get involved in any way
I could to help promote this because it's definitely worth
(02:25):
your time. And they are right now doing a kickstarter
where they're hoping to do a theatrical release, and so
they need some funds to be able to get the
movie out there so people can see it. And there
are all kinds of amazing tiers where you can you
can participate, have your name, the credits. You can you know,
there's the top tiers. You will fly out and you
can watch a movie with with Richard Deacon, Seraphim and
(02:47):
I and Josh and stuff. So, so, Josh, thanks for
coming on and tell us a little bit about like
why you made this crazy movie in the first place.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, what an intro. I'd take you everywhere I go though.
I felt really good. Can you accomplished a lot today
after that?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So you know, El Tanto for Christo came about really
from me almost not wanting to make a film like this.
So I've been orthodox for eleven years now. I was
a filmmaker before. From Dallas, Texas. I'll even go way back.
My dad was a traveling evangelist growing up, and so
(03:25):
we were on the actual road with my dad. We
were in a station wagon. Me and my brother were
polyester three piece suits. We opened up. We were part
of the act, act, the part of the service, and
in between that there was a lady named Gerald Deane.
She looked like Loretta Lynn and she had a puppet
named Ricky. They went on and then my dad, would
(03:46):
you know, close the White Center Revival down and we
go onto the next town, and as a kid, you
only know what you know, you know. So my dad
was an actor before he became a preacher in high
school and in college. So maybe genetically that's why I
was attracted to it, because I would always find the
puppeteer at the vacation Bible school or the summer camp
(04:06):
or the church. And then obviously being the opening act
for a lady who was eventual reloquest. She gave me
my first puppet, and so I was always in this
world of imagination. My dad said they'd be traveling, you know,
ten hours driving I would pop up from the back
seat and.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Just do a whole show, a whole puppet show.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
And you know, growing up like that, this is you know,
this is the eighties, and so we're in the backwoods
of Mississippi. I'm not really even watching TV really, but
I knew I was drawn to this theatrical thing, this drama,
you know. And they talked about Noah's Ark and I
could see. I saw it, you know, I saw how
it looked. And you know, fast forward, You're in the
(04:45):
middle of nowhere and I'm not in la or New York.
And to be there you had to go to like
NYU or a USC to do film because it was
film back then. It wasn't digital, and so the closest
thing I could do was really acting. So I went
to Universus Missouri, I did acting, came back to Dalla,
I was in feature films. I did the sitcom, went
out to LA and did the sitcom scrubs for an
(05:07):
episode or two, and the commercial work.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And there was.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Something like I felt like something was lacking, like I
wasn't a part of the storytelling because you're there for
a day and people are there for you know, the
months and months and a year's editing. And I didn't
know that I wanted to be a director until I
started making music videos and then I started making short films,
and then I was like, well, let's just make a
feature film.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
So I made this role Won't Break, which.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Is about a Dallas, Texas singer songwriter who doesn't make
it and how it all comes about and how most
of my work comes about. As my wife, I was
watching Netflix one night and I was just scrolling like
we all do, and she was like, what do you
want to watch? I said, I want to watch a
movie about a country singer who doesn't make it. You know,
we have the Fall from Grace, you know the old
Guy where we have the guy who makes it and
(05:52):
he plays the theater. I was like, what about the
guy who wakes up and he's forty years old and
he's still playing bars?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
What does he do?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
What's that movie? And she goes, why don't you make it?
And so challenge accepted. We went and made it, and
I realized I was able to make feature films and
that people wanted to see them, and that film.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Traveled the world.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
We went to Australia, went to Ireland, Scotland, and this
whole time I'm orthodox and I'm planning my next films.
But in the services, I would look around at these
icons and my mind would wander a little bit. I'm like, well,
what's the story there? What's the story there? And I
start reading books. Then I'm really reading The Desert Fathers.
(06:37):
I'm really reading about the Fool for Christ. I'm just
like become obsessed with this and I'm writing, I'm reading
and I'm reading. I'm not even writing yet, I'm just reading.
And then I'm realizing I can't focus on these other
projects that I want to make because I feel like
I need to make this film. And the thing that
dawned on me was like, you know, I'm a convert.
(06:57):
I've only been Orthodox for at this time it was
nine years, and I'm like, am I orthodox enough to
make a film about a holy fool?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I don't think I am.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
But I realized, like Jess said, the world that I
live in an orthodoxy here in Texas. You have a
monastery here in Texas and there's only two nuns there
and we go out there and help moull the yard.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And it's Texas.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You know, men and knights live next door, and they
they help out in just a whole nother world.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
And I was like, well, that's my Orthodox world. I
can make that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And I started looking around, and you know, because you
want to look for things as artists, as inspiration examples,
and there just wasn't anything out there. And when I
would talk about it, it did see foreign and that's
when it clicked, because I love foreign films. I love
European cinema, and you know, I love Wings of Desire,
I love The Seventh Seal, I love Ordette. These are
(07:53):
all films and when you watch Al Tanto per christa,
if you're a lover of films and a cenophile, and
like those Tearan style films, you'll see the inspiration in there,
because it's just like it just flooded through and it
was a subconscious thing. I remember I was We're filming
a scene in the movie. It's the kitchen scene when
they're baking in the bread, and it wasn't working because
(08:14):
I had it like a Bergmann film. It was in
my brain and it wasn't working. It was becoming really
really funny and it was humorous, and our lot we
were losing the lighting, and I remember my actor pulled
me aside and he goes, I think you're trying to
get a certain thing across.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
He's like, just let it go. He's like, it feels
like this is like dead Man, like Jim Jarmusch's Dead Man.
He was just let it be.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Let this be your own film. And that was on
day like three, and it just opened up the doors.
And I think if it wasn't for Frank Mosley, who's
a phenomenal actor, really saying that, and he's you know,
he's not Orthodox, he's not even Christian, but he was
so moved I think by the process the reverence of
(08:57):
how things were going, and he was like, just roll
with it.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
So that was a long winded way of saying with Altanta.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
For Cristo, how it came about maybe yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
And so.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
When I watched the film, in some ways that you
hinted at it already is that there's something very surprising
about the clash of the different images in some ways
the style of the movie. For people who've seen the
seen clips or images of it, it's a black and
white movie. You know, it's a very composed movie. It
has that that like, it has the kind of composition,
(09:30):
the styles of composition that you see like in a
Bergmann film where there's this black and white, uh, this
kind and it helps because the monks are dressed in black.
You know, there's something about already the setting that makes
it very beautiful and very interesting to look at. But
that clashes with this kind of sweaty Dallas, you know,
feeling of the and then you know there there's a
(09:53):
fish shack and there's this whole sense of right, it's
like this really and so you have all of these
these rising clashes, which seems to go well with the
kind of holy fool imagery, but you know, what was
your I guess my question is it's like, what attracted
you to this foolishness, like this sense of the because
(10:14):
people you have people I haven't seen yet, but there's
it really is in some ways it's it's one of
the most surprising and deep explorations of imagery of folly
in the context of a monastery that I that I've seen.
So what attracted you to that particular type of the
carnival kind of foolish imagery that you bring into the movie?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
You know, I think it's like, you know, it goes
back to my childhood. It was like I was almost
in a carnival in a way.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, you said that, like when you talked about the
puppeteering and your dad minister.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
It's like, yeah, And I think it was, you know,
and there was a lot of uh, you know, it's
very evangelical and it was very theatrical, and but you know,
I think if I wasn't doing that, if I wasn't
doing acting, if it was like back in the day
as a vaudeville, I'd probably run away with the circus.
That's just how my mind got how I really see
the world. You know, I'm not a scholar, you know,
(11:04):
I'm not an intellect in that type of way, but
I do visualize and see and I think, you know,
being in the theater as an actor, being an actor based,
you really can't have any pride per sale on the stage.
You know, you are sort of a fool, you are
sort of a clown. You are entertaining the audience. And
(11:29):
so that part made sense to me. When I read
about saints, I was always attractive to the ones who
did wild things like you know, climbing a tree and
not coming down, and living in a tree and sleeping
in a tree and just praying for some reason, that
makes sense to me, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
And you know, it's like that.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I always tell my wife, I'm like, whenever I'm writing
and creating, if someone were to take my phone and
listen to my voice memos, they would put me in
a mental institution, because I do the characters' voices before
I write everything down. I act things out. It's really
how my brain works. And so when I would you know,
I was just reading so much about the Desert Fathers
(12:10):
and about the fools for Christ, and it made me
understand Christ. It made me understand God and that's maybe
a broad way to say it, but in a simple way,
that's how I really understand it. I understand foolishness. I mean,
I feel like, you know, forgive me, father, I'm a fool.
(12:32):
That's something that I say time and time again. Not
that I'm trying to be a fool for Christ, but
I'm just like man, I am sometimes just an idiot.
And you know, that word is used a lot in
drama and in writing and stuff, and it totally makes
sense because there's a comedy to it. You know, when
people act bizarre or strange, it's borderline humor and comedy.
(12:53):
But in that is one step over. It's you know,
it's seriousness and drama and very focused. I always go
back to like Robin Willilliams, who was like the funniest
person in the world, but he also was like a
very quiet, deep thinker, you know, and it's there, You're
walking this fine line, and this is something so attracted
to that to me, and I really wanted to make
sure that the audience was enjoying themselves. And so what
(13:16):
better than to be able to freely write for a
Texas monastery on this coast with this fool for Christ
who's played by Matthew Posey, father John, and just watching
his exploration from being a fool to being Yeah, I
don't want to give away any spoilers.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Yeah, but so.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
The movie. So the movie is fascinating because in some ways,
you know, we talk about we're talking about it as
if it's an Orthodox film. Okay, this is not an
Orthodox film, Like this is a film, and it's not
a there's no, there's absolutely. One of the things that
attracted me to it is that the message or whatever
message there is, is embedded within the the entire esthetics
(14:01):
and the entire uh, you know, the story itself. There's
no how can I say it's not an evangelical film
the way that a lot of Christian films are. It
really is just a beautiful film. And so I was
curious to get a sense of because now that you
probably had quite a few people watch it, You've got
people that are in the church, that are outside of
the church, people that are that are maybe some Orthodox,
(14:23):
some Christians that aren't Orthodox, and then some people that
are completely secular. And have you seen how do people
react to it?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Like?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
What is what has been people's take from these different
slices of reality.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
No, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
You know, it really does seem like as of right now,
because the film hasn't been released wider, like you said,
it's only been screened, uh privately, maybe a handful of times.
And we have the big showing which had some of
our investors who are not Orthodox. And that's something else
as the majority of the patrons of the arts, the
(14:56):
big patrons of the arts of this film are not Orthodox,
some are not even Christian.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I think that.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
They saw the the what art we were producing. We
did sort of a look book. We did a test
with Matthew Posey, and we filmed some stuff so people
could see what it's going to feel like. They loved
the idea that it was going to be shot in
this one six six to one ratio, black and white,
a nod to European cinema, and they were all in.
(15:23):
You know a lot of people have questioned that are Orthodox.
It's get We get lots of messages and it's you know,
has this film been blessed?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Is this film orthodox enough? Is that? You know?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And I get where they're coming from, Like, who's this
based on? How is this fictional?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
You know? How is this.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
That's the one thing that I was I think because
it hasn't been done in America before, which is a narrative,
fictional feature. Most things that we see in the Orthodox world,
as you know, is documentary and they're like mainly made
in Greece or Russia, and they're beautiful and I love
those things, but you know, Orthodoxy is young in America,
(16:05):
and I wanted to put my you know, fingerprint on
making narrative features. You know, there's the Russian film Ostrof.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, that's the biggest I was just thinking about that movie.
I was thinking, if you want to compare your movie
to a movie that exists, that is the one to
compare it to. In the sense that it's a fictional
story about a monk, it also has this holy fool
aspect to it, and so it's not like there is
no precedent for this, Like there are precedents for these
types of stories. But your vision is, how can I
(16:36):
say that it's like this is hard? I think people
will understand. It's like ostrov is a beautiful film about
about this character that is ambiguous to many people, and
it's kind of acting in a kind of holy ful
way and it's affecting people's lives. So it's a really
it's worth watching. Everybody should watch. That movie's beautiful. But
your movie has within the aesthetics of the movie, so
(16:58):
it's like the very way the mo the story told
and the very way it's shot, and some of the
images embed the Holy Fool structure in it. So it's
not like, you know, you're using a nice kind of
normal way of people the way people a modern cinema
audience looks at a movie like, here's a just a
frame a box, and I'm watching a story. But you
(17:19):
use aesthetic means in the story to bring about the thing,
and so there's a there's an interesting modern aspect to
what you're doing. But that's why I think the movie
is so it's so particular because of that, because it
because the very means by which you tell the story
are making you experience what it is the movie's about.
I don't know if you see the difference between what
(17:41):
I'm trying to bring about.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Sure, and I think a big thing and the thing
that was always uh you know, written in ink was
it was going to be in black and white, and
a lot of people are like, why is this in
black and white, even like a lot of producers or
distribution companies at first were like, because when I was
doing it black and white, wasn't this big thing that
now has kind of taken off. Like there's been the
TV show Ripley that was in black and white, The
(18:06):
Lighthouse was light house, and then the Romo which won
Academy Awards is a Catholic film called Eta by a
Polish director, which is a phenomenal It won the Academy
Award is in black and white, and I wanted that
was so important to me to make it black and white.
Was if anyone's ever been inside of a cathedral or
an Orthodox church, the icon the iconography is gorgeous. You know,
(18:30):
all of the the you know, the candle the candle
obbers and the candle holders. You have the smell of
the incense, you're constantly moving. It's you know, you're participating
in that way. And I wanted to take away all
of that, you know, and not rely on because we
can as filmmakers or as artists just be like that
shot so beautiful because because of the color, but it
(18:52):
does not help your film. It doesn't push the film along.
And the narrative along. You've you've sort of you've cheated
the audience in a way, right, And I think making
this black and white, the audience almost participates and they're
watching the story and it's not about like you said,
it's not about Orthodoxy. It's about these men who are
at this monastery, and you know, there's not a lot
(19:15):
of them. That was something that was really important to
me because the monasteries I go to here in Texas,
there's not a lot of it, not.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
A lot of monks in Texas.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
No, you know, I've never I haven't gone yet. We're
going this year to Greece and you know, I'll get
a chance to go to Mount Athos. I haven't been there,
and I'm glad that i haven't been before making this film.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, there's also something else like that. I'm going to
say this and probably people are gonna get annoyed with me,
But there's also because of the fact that there aren't
many monks in North America, there is a very particular
thing that happens, which is that not all the monasteries,
but some of the monasteries end up being a very strange,
(19:58):
ragtag group of very quirky people. That end up becoming
monkst in North America, whereas in countries where there's a
lot of monasteries, you know, things kind of even out.
But here in America, some of the monasteries they there's
some really uh very strange, strange, strange people that end
up in those places.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, that was, that was and that was really important
to me. And as uh some a priest also said,
you know, I've been an abbot of a monastery for
a very long time, and uh, you nailed the monastery.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
And I was like, okay, good.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I was a little bit worried, you know, and it
was all you know, lots of grace just writing and
reading things and letting it subconsciously. You know, as an
artist you just have to let things subconsciously come out
and you tell yourself, is this wrong or this ride?
Or will the audience like that? And that's something that
I really had to you know, throw out the window.
Was is the audience going to love this? Is the
(20:56):
orthodox audience going to love this? Our produence protests is
going to get drawn to this? How to really just
knock all those things out and just make a film,
you know, make a feature film, make an art film,
and that was that was the most important because I
think if you do that, then truth will come out
for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
And so what can I say? This's like I'm still
wanting to get a few sense of the reaction to
the people like that. Let your your investors when they
watch it, like what was there? How did they react?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
What?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
How did they see this? Like what because if a
lot of them weren't even Christian, weren't Orthodox, how did
they perceive? Like did they get were they missing some
of the cues? It's hard to see from the like
from the outside because you have our own perspective, like
were they able to follow everything? Like was something so
esoteric that they couldn't really catch her?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
It's so wild because the non Orthodox or non Christians,
mainly non Orthodox people who've watched it have never said
that they were ever confused.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
They totally grasped the picture.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I've had several Orthodox say that they need to watch
it again.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I've had several Orthodox people say.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Well, some of those things didn't seem very orthodox that
were happening in the film. And maybe I've never a
lot of people have said like I've never seen orthodoxy
like that before. And maybe it's because they have their
own bubble of how they've perceived Orthodoxy, if they've been
you know, cratle or if they've been a convert or
however it's been. We all have our different takes on it.
(22:31):
But if you're not Orthodox, you're almost watching it like
it's the Seventh Seal or wings of Desire. You're not
coming into it seeing if things are correct or if
things are right or wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
But we did. I mean, as you know, we had
a lot of counsel in this film.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
We had priests and bishops and the Metropolitan. We had
a lot of people reading the script giving notes. We
had someone there every single day. Father theophon was there
every single day making sure everything that was liturgical was liturgical.
We have, you know, our composer Michael Paris Gavis, who
(23:07):
has just come off the Disney show Agatha all along.
His dad was the choir director at Saint Saraphin for
forty years and you know he's Orthodox.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah, But the way the music is a big part
of this movie, you know, because it was interesting. I
watched the early cut of it, you know, and I
could kind of get it, but when it came together
with the music, it really it really ties everything together.
The score is really well done.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, he Michael wanted to.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
We talked about having like an American Gothics sound at Texas,
a little bit of an appellation sounds. There's banjo, but
there's also banjo and semtron, and then we have my
wife's in the band, the Polyphonic Spree, and so we
had the Polyphonic Spree Choir sing on parts, and then
we had the Saint saraph From Choir sing on parts.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
So there's this back and forth.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
It's how I feel as a Texas Orthodox is You're
still have your roots, You're still you have your Southern roots,
but you're also entering into Orthodoxy, and you know, how
does that look?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
It looks different.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
When I was first orthodox where there's a film festival
down in Victoria, Texas, and it was during uh Pasca.
It was during a Holy week and we had gone
to service and I was new, it was newly Uh
we're catechumens at this time.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And I walk in.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Everyone's got beards and you know, they're uh there's chanting
involved and they're singing, and the main priest comes over
to say hi to me, and I'm thinking in my brand.
I'm thinking he's either Greek or he's Russian. And he's like,
what are y'all doing in town? And it was just
like it's you know, it's so jarring in this. He's like,
y'all want to eat? We have some Chilian core you
(24:50):
corn bread, and you're just like, oh, man, I love that.
And that's what you when you go back to why
did I choose the Full for Christ?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Or why is it Texas, it's just this.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I love things that are abstract and things that are constant,
you know, I love things that are you know, both
at the same time. So yeah, I think with with
some Protestants, you know, I think it's more.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
It's foreign. It's foreign to them as well.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
There's a lot of Catholic people who are really really
excited that have watched it, that are that are really
really moved by it. So I'm really you know, I'm
really interested as you are to see like what everyone's
going to really really think, because like you said, it's
you said I think once this is a dangerous film
in a good way, and I think that's the kind
of cinema I'm drawn to. And I think a lot
(25:42):
of people like to go watch something that you participate
and you're gonna you drive home and you're you're processing it.
And that's what a lot of people who are not
Orthodox have said. They said, I've been thinking about your film, Josh.
It's really beautiful and I'm ready to watch it again.
So that's encouraging to me for sure.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
One of the things that happens that when you watch
the movie, for sure, is you know, it's it's a
demanding film, Like it demands of you because there are
something that it doesn't give you, right, and it kind
of takes you long, and then it doesn't hand them
to you like you actually have to go get them.
And then once you get them, you realize, oh, and
(26:17):
then things kind of come together and you can see
the image you know, let's say, coming together. So it's
a demanding film, but it also is this it smashes
things together that, like you said, people aren't used to
seeing being put together. So you have this kind of
home grown sense of Texas, you know, this kind of
(26:39):
you know, rural feeling of Texas, right, and then that
is smashed. Like on top of that, you have this
sense of Orthodoxy and of liturgical practice and the monastic life.
And then on top of that, you have this whole weird,
kind of fool for Christ carnival imagery for people who
don't know there's actually like an actual little person who's
a monk in the movie that you know, and so
(27:00):
it brings that adds all this kind of sense of
a like like, yeah, like an old, old style carnival.
I won't I don't want to give things away, but
there are a lot of these elements kind of coming
in together. And then on top of that you have
this whole kind of European vision of cinema of like
Tarkowsky and Bergmann, a kind of surrealist element as well,
(27:21):
you know, this visionary cinema approach to It's like, I
don't never seen anything like it. I don't like when
I try to explain it, it's like it's just all
these layers. But it doesn't. But in the end it
comes together as an experience that is quite powerful and beautiful,
but it will be it is demanding of people. It's
not this is not popcorn cinema. This is this is art.
(27:42):
This is an art film.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, there's times even the opening scene and this is
no spoiler, but it's The opening scene is an eight
minute long take. There's no cuts, and I've had several
people have said, like I was waiting for it to
cut and turn and see Father John, but you never
never let us, and it sets a precedent for the
film to say, like, sit back, you know, there's not
gonna be you know the Marvel two three second cuts
(28:05):
every you know, every five seconds that we're really gonna
we're gonna sit with this, almost like theater. But you
did touch on something when you said you talked about
the small person, the little person Seraphim in the film,
and he's based on Saint John the Dwarf. And so
when people do talk to me and they say, well,
(28:27):
is this you know, is this orthodox based?
Speaker 3 (28:29):
All the of the Fool for Christ.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
And all the monks in the movie are based on stories.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Of the Orthodox saints.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
There's nothing that I made up besides dialogue that was
did not pertain to some some things just filling in
the gaps of dialogue, and but anything that is spiritual
in the film, anything that's full for Christ driven, those
were all taken from from stories.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
And it was such an honor.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And it was it's a blast for me to be
able to take those stories that we all know and
it's like an easter egg. The people who are Orthodox
have been coming up to me and being like, oh
is this that scene? Is that because of Saint John
of Shanghai or you know. We start to break things
down and it's a conversation and then say, I need
to watch it again because I think I missed I
(29:20):
think I missed that scene like when he's doing the
there's a silent film scene when he's in the cathedral
and he's doing his his gifts that's taken from Orthodox
stories as well.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
About it, Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's every like like I said,
we don't want to spoil it, but there's like there
really is. Because the thing is that you think also,
like you said, we already already hinting in this, is
that you have this sense of okay, it's called the
Fool for Christ, right, But then by the time the
movie's over, you're actually like, well, wait a minute, who
is the fool? Who's the Fool for Christ? Actually, then
(29:54):
you realize that it's actually a smashing together of all
these little kind of Christian folly, layers of images that
have kind of been brought together and so anyway, so
we'll let people discover it on their own. But yeah,
so that's also part of kind of the And it's
something that I think a lot of people it'll come
(30:14):
to them later. They'll watch it and then you're sitting
at home and you're like, oh, wait a minute, I
thought I got that, and then it's like no, no,
these other images are kind of layering themselves into your
memory and you realize there's something that you you kind
of saw but you didn't really completely understand. So it's
a yeah, I think it's definitely a movie that warrants evil,
will warrant for several people that aren't fifty, people that
(30:36):
aren't used to watching kind of art films and are
used to just being handed everything, like, they'll probably want
to watch it more than once.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, it's so bizarre, Like you probably all the same
way here, Jonathan. But like a lot of the stuff
that I create art and stuff like that, it's like
I can go back and watch it.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Sometimes it could be a little cringey.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Because of something maybe I was going as dated, or
or maybe I wish I would that's always the of
his ours.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I wish I would have done this.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It's so bizarre with this film that I love watching
it with audiences. I love watching it because even I
watch it and I find new things that I guess
was a subconscious move from the actor, or from my cinematographer,
or from me, or maybe I wrote it a certain way.
But being so busy making the film, being so busy
(31:23):
like editing, doing the sound design, now promoting it, now,
you know, raising the money to put it into theatrical release.
I can watch it as an audience member, and I'm
really excited to keep watching it with people and talking
to people about it, because, yeah, I have a lot
of questions.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So folks, I would say, you know, we're going to
put the link to the Kickstarter in in the uh
in the description.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
You know, we talk.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
About culture on this podcast. We talk about art, we
criticize the current state of artistic production. We're also trying
to ourselves kind of create new things, beautiful things, powerful
things that are that are going to transform culture. And
so this is a great possibility for you to participate
(32:10):
in a beautiful, powerful movie that is that is being made,
you know, to be a part of it, to be
able to help advance a new vision of culture, a
new way of doing things and one that isn't naive
but is deeply ingrained in everything we can learn from cinema,
from from from our tradition, all of this kind of
brought together as a vision of what of what's possible.
(32:32):
And so really, folks, I encourage you to go there.
And it's cool because some of the tiers are really participative.
You get to have your name in the credits, you
get to you know, have a special credit on IMDb.
You you know, like I said, it's they're really being
generous with what they're offering for people to h to
participate in this. So this is a chance to uh
to uh yeah, to not to not just be in
(32:53):
despair of what's happening around us in the state of culture,
but participate in in the future. So so and check
this out. And Josh, thank you for thank you for
doing this. You put a lot on the line.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
To do this.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
You kind of you know, obviously you know you were
able to get through it. It's people don't understand how
insane it is to make a movie on your own,
Like it's cleally crazy. So yeah, thank you for holding
the vision and getting that done. And so maybe give
people a last yeah, last sense of what it is
you're hoping to see, like what you want to see happen,
(33:26):
and yeah, and then we'll let people go to the Kickstarter.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
I think it's really exciting that this is something that
hasn't been done before we talked about, which is a
North American fictional narrative feature with the background of Orthodoxy.
And it's very important to watch this in a cinema.
I think, you know, we all get distracted.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I do too.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I have the Criterion Channel, and I get distracted, you know,
grabbing a snack or checking on the pizza or looking
at your phone. This film really does demand your attention,
like you're going to the opera or going to the theater.
And so you can be a part of this Kickstarter
and by just donating, you can purchase a ticket and
if it's not coming into your town, you can have
(34:05):
a live screening event where we're going to show it
on your computer on your TV and I'll take questions.
But yeah, we're trying to get this thing in most
cities in the US, and then we're going to go overseas.
We'll be in Romania and Greece this November, and so
we're building towards that, and really, I think it's going
(34:26):
to be fun because we're also doing a vinyl record
that'll have the soundtrack.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
It's a double vinyl. It'll have the music that's not
even in the movie.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
It'll have stuff from Saint Sarah from chuir'll have dialogue
like Walt Disney used to put out in those Disney movies.
Able to have the dialogue from the movie. So there's
so much exciting things that are happening. And if everyone
just shares this and then goes and brings friends and
discusses this film, it really will, I think, transform the
landscape of what else can come from that other people following.
(34:56):
You know, I feel like I have a machete and
I'm there was no pass to this, and I'm making
it a machete and hopefully people will follow along.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
And we can keep creating beautiful art.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, and like you know, like you hinted at one
of the lowest tiers on the Kickstarter, it's like pretty
much the price of a ticket. It's like twenty dollars.
You know, you get exclusive VIP showing of the of
the movie, and so it's like if you even plan
to even just see this movie. Like, just go and
support the kickstarter and it'll help them be able to
(35:26):
participate in the Theatrica release. So, Josh, thanks for everything.
And I'm excited to see this come out and I'm
looking forward to seeing it again. I mean I've watched
it only once completely finished, and hopefully we'll get that done.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah, thank you for being a part of it.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
It really means a lot, and I'm excited for everybody
to finally see Altanta per Cristo.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
All right, thanks, all right, bye bye.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
If you enjoyed these videos and podcasts, please go to
the Symbolic World dot com website and see how you
can support what we're doing. There are multiple subscriber tiers
with perks. There are apparel in books to purchase. So
go to the Symbolic World dot com and thank you
for your support.
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