October 31, 2025 • 38 mins
In this inspiring episode of The Thriving Christian Artist Podcast, I sit down with my friend Phil Bob Borman—a premier Western artist celebrated for his breathtaking skyscapes and deep love for both art and the Lord. From his early days as a sculptor and cowboy to becoming one of the country’s most recognized Western painters, Phil Bob’s story is one of following God’s leading through unexpected transitions.
We talk about the unique aesthetic of Western art, the discipline required to master large-scale skyscapes, and how Phil Bob has seen God’s hand guiding his creative journey. His humility, humor, and heart for excellence make this conversation one that will inspire any artist to keep pursuing the work they’re called to create.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- How Phil Bob transitioned from sculpting to large-scale skyscape painting
- The influence of Western culture and tradition on his work
- Why following God’s direction can lead to unexpected creative success
- Lessons from years of honing a distinctive style
- Encouragement for artists navigating seasons of change
🌟 Favorite Quotes from This Episode:
“I was doing bronze sculpture in the traditional Western style before I ever thought about painting clouds.” — Phil Bob Borman
“Everybody I know that’s trying to paint clouds—just go look up Phil Bob Borman. He’ll give you something to dream toward.” — Matt Tommey
🌐 Connect with Phil Bob Borman: http://www.philbobbormanfineart.com
✅ Stay Connected & Grow as a Thriving Christian Artist:
- 📬 Subscribe to The Thriving Christian Artist Weekly: https://thrive.matttommeymentoring.com/tca-weekly
- 📚 Find My Best-Selling Books: https://www.matttommeymentoring.com/resources
- 🎓 Explore Artist Mentoring Programs: https://www.matttommeymentoring.com/mentoring
Find out more about The Created to Thrive Foundations Course
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All of the world, artists are awakening.
Painters and potters, writersand weavers, poets and dancers
not chasing followers or fame,but sons and daughters called
for such a time as this,transformed from the inside out,
creating with purpose,releasing the glory of God and
living in the power of thekingdom.
Right now, this is the ThrivingChristian Artist.
(00:21):
Well, hey, friends, welcomeagain to the Thriving Christian
Artist podcast.
It's Matt Tomei, your host.
Super glad that you are here.
I am really excited today tohave a friend of mine, Phil Bob
Borman, who's not only anincredible musician and lover of
Jesus and all the good stuff,he's one of the premier Western
painters in the country and justan incredible, incredible
(00:45):
artist, man of God and lover ofcreativity and all things.
But, man, so glad you're herewith me.
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, thanks a bunch, Matt.
I sure appreciate it.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I guess you know we got to knoweach other a couple of years
ago.
Was it during COVID or rightafter that?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
or uh, it was right, it was right after, and it was,
uh, one of your, uh, I wastaking your creative, you know,
to throw your thriving you know,course, and everything, and and
then we got to visit.
I was on the hot seat and, yeah, you and I got to visit for 15
minutes and we have a mutualfriend here.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Latimer, Close friend Latimer.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
She is.
She's a walking rainbow.
She is so full of color andwonderful.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
It's funny, looking back, I look at my podcast all
the time to see which ones arethe most popular.
And her part, the podcast I didwith her several years ago, is
one of my top 10 podcasts andand that's saying that we're
going to hit 2 million downloadsthis year.
And so you, just, you know,latimer always talks about, you
know, rubbing in with the Lordtells you something, just
rubbing in, just tell her.
Matt said just rub that in,right You're one of the guys
(01:58):
that lived in her story.
you know, and let me go all overthe place, but man, listen, as
I've gotten to know just whatyou do and seeing your work and
just seeing you know who you areand your wife and how y'all
live, it's just you're just suchan inspiration.
And so for those maybe whodon't know you and that maybe
give us the thumbnail sketch ofwhat you do creatively, where
(02:20):
y'all are in the world, and thenwe'll kind of get into the
backstory and what's going onnowadays okay, well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Um, well, I, I paint full time.
Uh, I paint primarily skyscapes.
You can see one back over myshoulder.
Yeah, uh and um, I see beenpainting for 40 well, actually
been painting for 20 somethingyears.
Before that, I was a sculptor,mostly in the working cowboy
genre, and then I laid out.
(02:49):
For 10 years I was in full-timeministry.
Once you're in, you're alwaysin.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That's right, ain't help.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
but right, that's right, and my wife and I Deanna,
she's cool, she's my it crewand, uh, she just went in the
other room.
Uh, she's, uh, we, we are makea pretty great team and she does
the business end of it.
I went from sole proprietor tonow I'm simply the painter and
(03:18):
she's the administrator, whichis awesome, and we live in
Merkle, texas.
Abilene is a suburb of Merkle.
Just don't tell Abilene right,Just don't tell Abilene, it's
just between us and 20 millionpeople.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
That's right, that's right.
Well, you know, man, yourskyscapes that you do, and the
Texas sky, I mean, I don't knowanybody that does it like you.
In fact, we were at the gallerythat represents you in
Fredericksburg and just to beable to go up to those humongous
pieces and see them and like,wow, this is incredible.
In fact, everybody that I knowthat's trying to paint clouds,
(03:57):
I'm like listen, just doyourself a favor.
Go look this boy up on theinternet, phil Bob Borman, and I
said, said he's gonna, he'sgonna give you something to
dream toward, is something tolook toward.
But when you started painting,uh, I guess maybe let's start
back you started as a sculptor,so were you doing bronze
sculpture and that sort of thing, and in the traditional western
style, or or?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I was I was um, when I was, I went to school at Sul
Ross down in Alpine Texas and Iwas cow born for a living and my
mentor was a sculptor and Ialways wanted to be a sculptor
and a painter and I had severalpeople that were my inspirations
and I told them I wanted to doWestern art.
(04:42):
My teacher laughed at me and hesaid, well, if you think you
can.
And to me, no, is a not yet.
Yeah, come on, come on, youknow.
And uh, so I was bringing him a, a brand new pencil drawing
every week and he said, boy,you're drawing more.
This is.
And I was just in artappreciation class, yeah, and he
(05:06):
said, you're drawing more thanmy other drawing students.
And I said, well, I want this.
And so you know, I'm like thatduck If it don't rain, I'll walk
.
So I went to sculpting and didthat full time for 15 years and
really enjoyed it.
I still enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
It's been so neat moving out here to Texas and
just seeing what a differentaesthetic there is in Western
art versus art that we have backin the East and where I was at
in Asheville and everything issuch a different tradition and
that sort of thing just thematerials and the subject matter
and that sort of thing.
So how long were you cowboyingand doing sculpting at the same
(05:51):
time and then you kind of justwent on into that full time, or
how did that transition happen?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I've always been doing my artwork.
The Lord had it to where, evenin high school, I took art for
four years.
Just things worked out that way.
Even since I was about fouryears old, I had one of them
gold spine books.
You know that kids have, yeahyeah.
The golden binding and I saw alittle it was a porpoise or
(06:18):
dolphin or something and I drewit and I went, I can do this.
And then I was drawing on likewindowsills and stuff like that.
And you know, mom didn't likethat, but uh, I've always wanted
to.
The two things I wanted to doin life I wanted to be an artist
and, uh, when I was 14, Iremember I came home one night
(06:39):
from being a bus boy and Istayed up all night long drawing
and I told best friend I saidI'm going to be an artist one of
these days.
Wow, and I didn't know whatthat meant.
And, um, and since I was five, Iwanted to be in ministry and uh
, so the lord is, you know, it'skind of like a meandering river
(06:59):
.
You know it's northbound but itmeanders south every once in a
while.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you knowwhat's life without a little
salt?
But that was so.
When I got to college, I wantedto be an artist and really I
didn't have anybody there at theuniversity to teach me color
and so, but I learned all youknow.
(07:22):
What do you call it?
Oh, my gosh, not confirmation.
You know my values and all thateverything, all the basics.
And then it was several yearslater, after I had given up my
artwork because it meant toomuch to me.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
And.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I had a sculpture I was working on one night and it
was just so good.
And as I was working on it, Igot a started getting a
bellyache and I thought what'sgoing on?
Well, I called my pastor he'skind of like my big brother in
Christ, you know and uh, andhe's got two colors, black and
white.
And uh, and he was, uh, he's arancher, and we were living on
(08:07):
it.
Uh, no, I wasn't living on hisranch at the time, but anyway, I
called him and I said, hi, uh,I keep getting this.
You know this, this feeling inme, you know.
And I said what do you think itis?
And he said probably the holyspirit won't to talk to you.
And I said, said well, whatshould I do?
And he said listen, click, quitdoing what you're doing instead
(08:28):
of having one.
And I said listen.
And so what I did was I satdown and prayed and I said, oh,
but Lord, look how I did this.
I mean, it was a Phil Bob opus.
You can't find it on iTunes,but uh, you know.
Um, everything was just righton that sculpture.
And and then I sat back and Iwent.
(08:52):
Every one of those sentencesstarted with personal pronoun I.
And I said, lord, I don't wantanything come between us.
And and previous to that, Ialready told the Lord, and a
friend of mine said I'll doanything God wants, so long as I
don't have to give up myartwork.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Don't ever say that, because you know what's coming
next.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, to his wisdom, my buddy didn't say a word
because he could have jumpedright on that and said well, now
, but he, let me figure it out.
And I gave my artwork upcompletely and it turned out
being 10 years.
But I told the Lord.
I said I need you to take thefire out of my belly, my passion
(09:35):
, and I would do a sculpture formuseums or something like a
commission from time to time.
But I was out of the artbusiness.
I was in full-time ministry,loved it, love it.
I was circuit preaching, doingall sorts of stuff.
And then, when I was workingwith the ministry, I moved to
Kerrville and I had been apastor for the NMJRA, which is
(10:00):
the New Mexico Junior RodeoAssociation, and had my own
ministry.
And so, anyway, I was over hereworking with ministers from all
over the world, counseling andstuff, and one day the Lord said
start painting.
I went okay.
And that was our conversationand I wouldn't touch it
beforehand.
(10:21):
And then he just startedbringing opportunities and I
said, well, lord, I don't neverpainted before other in college.
A little bit, and he said, andhe said that's alright.
I said, well, I don't have agallery.
He said I didn't ask you to,that's alright, too, told you to
paint, yeah, and what was neatis I gave my first painting to
(10:46):
him that I got in a gallerythere in Fredericksburg and I
said, lord, if this is from you,because I'd done the art thing
for a while and the rhythms thatcome with that, and I was on a
men's retreat and I said, if yousell this, I want to know that
(11:06):
I'm going down the right path.
Yeah, sure Go back into artworkbecause I didn't give it up and
it was at 2 o'clock and I wasout outside of Menard, texas,
with a bunch of men.
Well, I got home that eveningand the gallery owner called and
said hey, phil, bob, just wantto let you know.
We sold that painting about twoo'clock yesterday, or that, or
(11:28):
that.
I mean at the same time when Iwas praying and I went okay, all
right, I'm in, I'm in, I'm allin.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Wow, wow, and it's just I'm thinking about my own
story of how the Lord did this.
I was a worship leader for along time, came right out of
college leading worship musician.
That was kind of I felt like myidentity.
I was doing my basketry and allthat just kind of as a fun
thing on the side for Christmasmoney and just you know, messing
around.
I said some, some guys playgolf, some go fishing.
(12:00):
I made baskets.
That was just my, my fun thing,but my music was my, my big
deal.
And when that came to an endfor me in 2002, three right, and
I guess 2003, I went in atotally different direction as
well.
We'd gone through a big churchsplit and all this mess that
I've just kind of laid it downand really went through the next
(12:21):
few years of just a real deephealing journey that the Lord
had me on.
And so when he started, when Ifelt like I'd gone through that
and kind of was coming back tookay, I'm in a healthy place,
leaders in my life areencouraging me to step back into
my calling and this sort ofthing I was thinking in my mind.
You know, when God called me toraise up an army of artists in
(12:43):
2009, I thought it was going tobe through musicians and worship
and all this stuff that I haddone.
And the Lord was like no, no,no, no, no, no, no.
He said we're going to actuallydo this through your baskets.
And I'm like what?
Like that I make any sense?
Like I'm like like we like totell the Lord like Lord, don't
you know that nobody makes aliving from making baskets?
Don't you know that thisdoesn't make any sense?
(13:04):
Don't you know that I've neversold a painting before?
You know all of this?
And he's like yeah, I know, justmove to Asheville and I'm going
to take it from here, and it'sthe same thing.
It's like God just began toconfirm and confirm and confirm
and it's I just think it's sobeautiful and I hear this all
the time in interviews andyou're just, you know, bringing
this up again that I think somany times God gives us this
(13:26):
gift but then he, he, wants usand many times walks us through
situations that require us togive it back to him in order, so
that he can bring it back to usin a way that we don't have our
tentacles of control in it andwe know that it's him.
And I don't know about you, butbeing doing the things that I'm
doing now, it comes with somuch more joy and so much more
(13:48):
freedom, because, you know, I'mnot forcing this.
I'm just trying to respond towhat the Lord's doing in my life
and it's a lot more fun towatch him create the momentum,
if you will, than me trying tosit over here do it all myself.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yes, yeah, and it takes all the pressure off when
I know that I'm doing thisadventure, this grand adventure
called art and being a creative.
You know if there's in the leantimes, you know of the rhythms
and stuff.
I'm not the provider, he is,and so you know if he's in
(14:29):
charge of marketing.
We're good, it's so good he'sin charge of the inspiration.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
He's in charge of me making it.
He's in charge of thedistribution.
He's in charge of the profit.
He's in charge of the marketing.
He's in charge of the profit.
He's in charge of the market.
He's in charge of everything.
The issue is, can we get thatin our head and just learn to
cooperate with him.
Right, and I love what you'resaying Trust the rhythms.
That's a beautiful way to saythat.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
That's it.
And I've been doing this for 40years and off and on different
things for 40 years and off andon different things, and I can't
tell you how many times, upuntil maybe a couple of weeks
ago, somebody come up and saywhat do you do for a living?
What do you?
You know, I mean, what do youdo for a living?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah right, Because it obviously can't be this,
right, right, your life doesn'twork.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And I smile and go on .
And you know what was it?
I always say somebody else'slack of vision doesn't make me
blind.
Come on, come on, and that'syou know, I had a similar deal
in ministry.
I was worship leader for manyyears and that was my identity
as well.
(15:35):
And still I would go.
When I would go to a littlechurch or join a fellowship
somewhere and they neededsomebody in worship, and I said,
well, lord, I can do this.
And he said I know, lord, I cando this.
And he said I know we're good,are you listening?
(15:56):
And he said, no, I want yousomewhere else.
I know you can, but it's notabout your can, it's I need you
to be where I need you becausewe've had that.
You can and you do, but I don'twant you in that faculty or
(16:16):
that position at this timebecause that's not your identity
.
Yeah, you know being my son as apriest and a king.
He said that's your identity.
Yeah, and I want people to knowwhen you follow me, in spite of
the normals that are out there,you're giving permission for
other folks to be fully them.
(16:38):
Yeah, and so when I recognizeas as he is, then I'm a fully
filled bob yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I love it.
I think it's so beautiful andthis you know from.
I guess I'm a slow learner, butit takes a while to learn that.
You know we're not what we do.
You know our identities inchrist especially, we talk about
that.
Our heart can get attached tothe things that that we're we
are created for, we, and god hasdesigned us to do these things.
But our heart gets attached tothem and we think that we are
(17:07):
what we do.
And it took me a long time torealize that, man, whether I'm
selling my art or making my art,or whether I'm speaking to
somebody, or whether I'm at thegrocery store encouraging
somebody, or like right now, I'mleading a life group at our
church and I'm just loving it,all of that's the kingdom and
I'm just God's steward and hegets to point me in whatever
(17:28):
direction he wants to do andturn on whatever part of me that
he needs at that time.
Man, if you can just get thatin your heart for all of us, it
really does.
Let you live with a lot moregrace and a lot more, I don't
know.
Just rest in him that this ishis story and he's going to use
me in the way that he wants to,and the quicker that I will
(17:50):
learn to submit to that andcooperate with him, the easier
it's going to be on both of us.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Exactly, it's like, you know, it's a point of
agreeing with him.
Yeah, you know when a good handis somebody who helps where
it's needed, not where they wantto.
You know, but, lord, I want tohelp you here.
I know I got somebody there.
I need you to help me overthere.
Yeah, but you know, but that'snot sexy.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Nobody knows about that one Lord.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Exactly and like what you're saying, matt.
It is so important, especiallyabout as a creative.
It's one of those deals wherewe can't not.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
It's going to come out somewhere right, it is.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
And even during that 10 years, which, like I said,
I'd planned on it being for therest of my life Um, I built a
porch.
It was 1500 square feet, threelevels, had a trap door for the
kids and a rock wall and allthat stuff.
And and, uh, so you, I can'tnot create.
And that's really thedefinition of an artist.
(20:32):
It's not if you make a livingor you've done this or been in
that, it's you can't not.
And I have never met so manycourageous people as those that
walk in the creative, becausethat is the family business
Absolutely.
That's what our dad does for aliving, come on.
(20:53):
But we've never been therebefore.
And that's what takes so muchcourage is every time I start a
painting.
I've never been there beforeand I had a mentor of mine.
I was at a workshop and I said,oh, you think we're painting
(21:14):
outside?
And I said you fixing to doanother masterpiece?
And he said well, I don't know,I've never done this painting
before.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
You had to be determined.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I was like I thought, if you just you know, once
you're there, that you just pickup a brush and stuff happens
and everybody loves you andwants to buy your work.
And it's not that way.
Every day is from scratch andit's a day of complete trust.
(21:42):
And I just finished with aworkshop at the Museum of
Western Art down in Kerrvilleand I was telling my class.
I said, you know, to trust whatGod has given you is the most
important thing.
You know, like to grab the hindend of a brush and stand back
there and just do the whole flowback and forth.
And it's when we paint with ourfingers that we're trying to
(22:05):
control and contrive and andwhatever.
When I trust and have fun,that's going to come out in my
paintings, whatever my intent is, that's coming out.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, that's a great transitionbecause I was just, you know
you are obviously, you know anincredible lover of Jesus
walking in the kingdom andeverything God's created you to
do.
I know, you know, believe inthe full gifts of the spirit on
display and everything that youdo so and yet at the same time,
you are fully in the what somemight call the secular art world
(22:42):
and doing you know what God'scalled you to do there.
I'd love to get yourperspective on this, because one
of the things I see the enemyreally get as a hang up in a lot
of artists who love Jesus andwant to pursue their art is that
they feel this it's almost likethis religiosity that comes on
that says, well, I've got to doit, it's got to have doves and
(23:03):
crosses and all this kind ofstuff, it's got to be overt
biblical imagery, it's got to behave a scripture verse on it or
something like that, or atleast have a biblical theme.
And I just love it when anartist like you, you know, comes
on the scene and and guys go toPhil Bob's website and we'll
share that in a little bit whatit is but your work like oozes
(23:24):
the glory of God and yet there'snothing about, you know, phil
Borman, prophetic artists,christian artists, that sort of
thing.
So talk about that, thattension for you, that balance
for you know, phil Borman,prophetic artist, christian
artist, that sort of thing.
So talk about that tension foryou, that balance for you of how
you walk fully as somebodythat's walking in the kingdom
and yet God's also giving you somuch grace and favor in the
(23:44):
quote, unquote secular art worldto do what you do without all
the Christian Christianesebaggage, if you will.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Right, with all the iconography and and stuff like
that that comes with it.
Well, I asked him that and, um,you know, because, uh, you know
, this artwork it's a, it's aluxury, or you know, in the
realm that I'm in, and and hesaid you are prophesying my
glory, you know.
And it goes right back to myintent.
(24:13):
Your intent will always be seen.
If I paint to sell, then allI'm going to get out of it is
transactions.
And he is not interested in atransactional Phil Bob.
I'm not vying for his attention.
(24:34):
Me being fulfilled, and healready put in my, my heart, I
want to, I want you to paintclouds.
And years before I went intopainting and it was like a
memory of going oh, I want topaint clouds, yeah, and it's my
passion.
Uh, me being the fullest, me isthe present to everybody around
me.
You know that's.
(24:54):
And you being the fullest, youand all of your facets, what the
enemy wants us to do is to stopat one facet and make it a mask
.
So it's our identity.
And but no, you know, fulfilledmats or fulfilled fill bobs are
multifaceted.
We shine like jewels and infact, talk about prophetic art.
(25:19):
I have done a couple ofpaintings that have doves or
crown or whatever on there, andit was what the Lord showed me
when I was over at Latimer'sstudio and we had a gathering
one night, and walking into herstudio it was like walking
inside of a shofar.
Right you know, if you don't seeJesus, you weren't there.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
That's right, you weren't looking.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
And I asked the Lord.
I said Lord.
I said don't you?
I don't see bubbles, I don'tsee birds, I don't see the
crosses in the sky or anything,and I mean there's times when I
do, but as far as my artwork, Idon't see that.
And he said hon, he calls mehon.
And he said hon, he calls me hon.
He said you are glorifying mewith each and every painting
(26:12):
that you do and it's your intentand I always, ever since I
started it's painting one sky ata time, showing God's glory one
sky at a time.
And there is no mundane withhim.
That's right, and so it's likebecause my intent will be seen.
(26:34):
And you just made my day whenyou said it just oozes God's
glory.
And I have been in a gallerywhere, as an artist, you're
anonymous.
People know your work but theydon't know.
And I'm standing right next tosomebody and I heard somebody
say oh, I just see God's glory.
Oh, if I had a tail, I'd havewagged it.
(26:57):
You know, I was Nothing better,right Nothing better, nothing
better, but it's not religious,and see, he's so far beyond that
.
He's not religious and see,he's so far beyond that.
Yeah, he's not threatened, heis.
You know, I think about the,the story we call the prodigal
son, but it's more about thefather.
That's right and and whether wego and live the wildlife, been
there, done that, got drawerfull of t-shirts and or uber
(27:21):
religious, he has grace and lovefor both.
Yeah, I know, like I know, Iknow, but come here.
He said, just come to me,you're welcome at the party.
So, anyway, for other artists,I just want to say what's in
your heart is exactly what weneed to see.
The rest of the world and what'sin your heart.
(27:42):
That is something Like, matt,we just talked about, you know,
between the two of us, but thisis for anybody.
Your baskets are the key tosomebody's permission,
somebody's release.
Yeah come on, and you know, andthere's, you know, as you've
(28:04):
probably heard, a thousandmillion, big in times.
You know, basket weaving,exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
No, that's how or somebody said I'm glad somebody
finally found something to dowith kudzu.
I said I need to start takingup a nickel for every time
somebody says that yeah, youknow and uh, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I always tell people, like you know, this is cool
that I make a living paintinghumidity.
You know I love it.
So how is that the thing is?
It's from my heart, and Lordtold me.
He said every time somebodylooks at one of your paintings,
(28:43):
it's prophesying.
Because my intent is being seen.
It's like when you go to amuseum and you step in front of
something you know, an exhibit,and you you have your cell phone
or speakers and it startstalking about that exhibit,
right.
Every time somebody stands infront of your painting or your,
your baskets or whatever it is adrawing, drawing, sculpture, it
(29:06):
is prophesying, declaring yourintent, and so it's, you know,
and that's really our identityis.
Our identity is not based onour transactions.
You know, his grace is not awage, his blessings are not a
(29:27):
wage so it's a gift and that'sthat's for us to know.
I don't have to earn it, yeah,you know.
And my boys, when they'regrowing up, they say, daddy, are
you so, oh, so proud of me?
And I said hon, I said I loveto watch you sleep when you're
not doing anything.
It's knowing you're breathingblessed.
(29:47):
Yeah, yeah and and so that's sogood.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I think.
So many times we settle fortransactions and god's trying to
get us to lean intotransformation, right, I mean?
Amen, yes, you know absolutely.
He wants to change us in theprocess and and and make us
trust him in the mystery of.
We don't know what we'recreating or what he's going to
use it for.
But even in spite of us or ournot understanding, he takes that
piece and uses it for his glory.
(30:12):
And you keep talking about youknow being the fullest you I
just keep hearing that quote ofSt Irenaeus you know the glory
of God?
Is man fully alive, and that'swhat Jesus died for is that we'd
be fully alive, fully restoredto the kingdom, fully alive in
him to walk in everything thatthey designed us for.
(30:33):
And I just think, wow, that'swhat this life is about, not
painting this specifically orthat specifically.
It's like God cares much morethat we create than what we
create, as long as we're justinviting him into the process.
Yes, and it's reallyinteresting that genres for
painting than what we create, aslong as we're just inviting
them into the process.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
You know, yes, and that's you know it's.
It's really interesting that umgenres for painting or
different kinds of artwork, itwas established after the fact.
Creativity is brand new.
By definition, it has no genrebecause it hadn't been completed
yet in the process.
And you know, I think about andyou've probably talked about
(31:10):
this before, I'm sure aboutBezalel.
Yeah, I know you have.
Yeah, I know you have.
I've listened to your deal.
I was like, oh, yeah, you knowthat he was anointed with all
this creativity, but that's so.
We don't fit into a genre, we'renever made to fit.
And I would say probably one ofthe greatest lies out there is
(31:32):
homogenization, being the sameor emulating for a definition,
because like, okay, matt is asuccess, so I want to be just
like Matt, so I can be a success.
Well, that's not true Matt'sMatt, you know, for being a
(31:55):
complete success, I need to beme to be a complete success and
trust that I'm enough and, infact, even more than that, trust
that I am a blessing to allaround.
And you know it's faith everyday.
(32:17):
Because we you know the vainimaginations that talks about
scripture we never imaginate up,we always imaginate down.
We don't spiral up and say,well, I'm just to this, or he
does that.
That's not true.
You know, as you know, you goto an art show and the trials
and the hard things that we gothrough everybody goes through
right, you know the, thepressures and and we encourage
(32:43):
one another and it's encouragingto see that other people have
survived.
But, um, you know, I would sayto everyone follow your bliss.
My wife, uh deanna, uh told,told her kids that you know,
follow your bliss, follow yourbliss.
And that's another way ofsaying is follow your peace.
Where is the lord leading?
(33:04):
And, like said, he's alreadygiven it to you.
He gave you the inspiration.
So when something comes out onthe canvas or I'm writing a song
or something, that's the secondtime it's been mentioned.
The first time was To you right, to me, yes, and you know,
(33:26):
because he put it that deep downin there, oh good.
And then when I trust himenough to let it out, and so
that's why I say, watchingsomebody, it doesn't matter the
skill level you know, we weretalking about earlier today is
that pursuit of excellence isexcellence.
(33:53):
That is, and artistic integrityor the pursuit of integrity is
integrity.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Right, you know, it's always growing, it's always
maturing, right.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, exactly, and you know, I always say that you
can see further than you canthrow, so your vision will
always out-distance your abilityto get there.
By the time you get there, youcan see further.
That's right.
And so that means I've got roomto grow every day.
And in competition, I've hadpeople say, or ask is it
(34:25):
competitive in a gallery whenthere's 60, some odd artists
from all over the world?
And the answer is no, right,because we say something
different and so we have room toencourage everybody.
And so there's, you know, I wasas I was getting, you know,
(34:45):
really into the clouds subjectmatter, you know, and this was
my passion.
And I was looking at an artistwho passed about 10 years ago,
wilson Hurley, and he was thecloud guy.
And then there's anothergentleman is it Paul Nisbet?
Out of Santa Fe, and I lookedonline at their work and I went,
(35:09):
oh my goodness, how could Iever paint a cloud?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
What was I thinking?
I'm going to, you know, shakethe dust off my blue vest and go
back to being a greeter at.
Walmart, you know.
But after I was dejected for afew days and this is all inside
of me, right, right and then Iwent back and I studied some
more and I was looking at theirbooks and I went wait a minute,
(35:37):
they're saying somethingcompletely different.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
There is no similarity and you know it's
like, uh, in Western art art, ifyou see a guy riding a bronc.
Well, how many people have donethat right?
Everybody it's still doing it,but every one of them's
different, and so that's what'sso wonderful.
This is, I would say, this isthe diversity, uh, uh.
(36:04):
Training that we need is totrust the Lord and being
ourselves, and not followingbehind someone.
We can learn from them, but notfollowing.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
That's so good.
Well, man, listen, what a joyto be with you today and just
get to hear more of what makesyou tick and what the Lord is
doing in your life.
I know that folks are going towant to connect with you on your
website and social media andall that kind of thing.
Find out any other classes orshows that you're doing, so
where can they connect with you?
What's your website?
Any socials that you want toshare?
And then just any finalencouragement for everybody on
(36:35):
the show today Okay, well it's,my website is
philbobbormanfineartcom.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Isn't that right?
My love, okay.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
What's the name again ?
Speaker 2 (36:47):
That's right, I spelled it right.
I'm good, all right, and that'sour website and you can hook up
through our email and stuffthere.
And then we have an Instagrampage and it's PhilBobBormanArt,
and then also Facebook andthat's PhilBobBorman art and
then also Facebook and that'sPhil Bob Borman art.
(37:09):
I'm looking at Deanna and she'sgiving me thumbs up.
She is the that.
You know.
If somebody said, phil Bob,I'll give you a million dollars
to get on Facebook tomorrow, I'dhave to go back to work because
I don't even know how to get onit.
But that's how you can get ahold of me, you know, uh, and
(37:30):
just email us through those, ormessage through Facebook or
Instagram.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Awesome, Awesome, Well, man, listen, what a joy.
And, uh, I might have to rideover there to Abilene and and uh
, or tell me the little townagain, not Abilene, but right.
It's, it's Merkel I might rideout to Merkel one day.
We're gonna have to have lunchand and have lunch and just have
a longer conversation because Ijust I love what God's doing in
(37:53):
your life and what he's pouringthrough you and I know it's
been an inspiration to everybodylistening today.
So thanks so much for being onthe show today Very well, thanks
.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Thanks a bunch, matt.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Hey, my friend, before you go, make sure that
you're signed up for theThriving Christian Artists
Weekly.
It's my free newsletter, fullof spiritual encouragement,
creative inspiration andpractical tips to help you
thrive in everything that God'scalled you to do as an artist in
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Every issue is absolutely freeand it includes the latest
podcast episode, featured artistspotlights, a worship song of
(38:20):
the week and, again, tons oftips and encouragement and
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You can click the link righthere in the show notes to join
us, and it's a great way to stayconnected.
All right, love you Bye.
All of the world, artists are awakening.
Painters and potters, writersand weavers, poets and dancers
not chasing followers or fame,but sons and daughters called
for such a time as this,transformed from the inside out,
creating with purpose,releasing the glory of God and
living in the power of thekingdom.
Right now, this is the ThrivingChristian Artist.
(00:21):
Well, hey, friends, welcomeagain to the Thriving Christian
Artist podcast.
It's Matt Tomei, your host.
Super glad that you are here.
I am really excited today tohave a friend of mine, Phil Bob
Borman, who's not only anincredible musician and lover of
Jesus and all the good stuff,he's one of the premier Western
painters in the country and justan incredible, incredible
(00:45):
artist, man of God and lover ofcreativity and all things.
But, man, so glad you're herewith me.
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, thanks a bunch, Matt.
I sure appreciate it.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I guess you know we got to knoweach other a couple of years
ago.
Was it during COVID or rightafter that?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
or uh, it was right, it was right after, and it was,
uh, one of your, uh, I wastaking your creative, you know,
to throw your thriving you know,course, and everything, and and
then we got to visit.
I was on the hot seat and, yeah, you and I got to visit for 15
minutes and we have a mutualfriend here.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Latimer, Close friend Latimer.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
She is.
She's a walking rainbow.
She is so full of color andwonderful.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
It's funny, looking back, I look at my podcast all
the time to see which ones arethe most popular.
And her part, the podcast I didwith her several years ago, is
one of my top 10 podcasts andand that's saying that we're
going to hit 2 million downloadsthis year.
And so you, just, you know,latimer always talks about, you
know, rubbing in with the Lordtells you something, just
rubbing in, just tell her.
Matt said just rub that in,right You're one of the guys
(01:58):
that lived in her story.
you know, and let me go all overthe place, but man, listen, as
I've gotten to know just whatyou do and seeing your work and
just seeing you know who you areand your wife and how y'all
live, it's just you're just suchan inspiration.
And so for those maybe whodon't know you and that maybe
give us the thumbnail sketch ofwhat you do creatively, where
(02:20):
y'all are in the world, and thenwe'll kind of get into the
backstory and what's going onnowadays okay, well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Um, well, I, I paint full time.
Uh, I paint primarily skyscapes.
You can see one back over myshoulder.
Yeah, uh and um, I see beenpainting for 40 well, actually
been painting for 20 somethingyears.
Before that, I was a sculptor,mostly in the working cowboy
genre, and then I laid out.
(02:49):
For 10 years I was in full-timeministry.
Once you're in, you're alwaysin.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That's right, ain't help.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
but right, that's right, and my wife and I Deanna,
she's cool, she's my it crewand, uh, she just went in the
other room.
Uh, she's, uh, we, we are makea pretty great team and she does
the business end of it.
I went from sole proprietor tonow I'm simply the painter and
(03:18):
she's the administrator, whichis awesome, and we live in
Merkle, texas.
Abilene is a suburb of Merkle.
Just don't tell Abilene right,Just don't tell Abilene, it's
just between us and 20 millionpeople.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
That's right, that's right.
Well, you know, man, yourskyscapes that you do, and the
Texas sky, I mean, I don't knowanybody that does it like you.
In fact, we were at the gallerythat represents you in
Fredericksburg and just to beable to go up to those humongous
pieces and see them and like,wow, this is incredible.
In fact, everybody that I knowthat's trying to paint clouds,
(03:57):
I'm like listen, just doyourself a favor.
Go look this boy up on theinternet, phil Bob Borman, and I
said, said he's gonna, he'sgonna give you something to
dream toward, is something tolook toward.
But when you started painting,uh, I guess maybe let's start
back you started as a sculptor,so were you doing bronze
sculpture and that sort of thing, and in the traditional western
style, or or?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I was I was um, when I was, I went to school at Sul
Ross down in Alpine Texas and Iwas cow born for a living and my
mentor was a sculptor and Ialways wanted to be a sculptor
and a painter and I had severalpeople that were my inspirations
and I told them I wanted to doWestern art.
(04:42):
My teacher laughed at me and hesaid, well, if you think you
can.
And to me, no, is a not yet.
Yeah, come on, come on, youknow.
And uh, so I was bringing him a, a brand new pencil drawing
every week and he said, boy,you're drawing more.
This is.
And I was just in artappreciation class, yeah, and he
(05:06):
said, you're drawing more thanmy other drawing students.
And I said, well, I want this.
And so you know, I'm like thatduck If it don't rain, I'll walk
.
So I went to sculpting and didthat full time for 15 years and
really enjoyed it.
I still enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
It's been so neat moving out here to Texas and
just seeing what a differentaesthetic there is in Western
art versus art that we have backin the East and where I was at
in Asheville and everything issuch a different tradition and
that sort of thing just thematerials and the subject matter
and that sort of thing.
So how long were you cowboyingand doing sculpting at the same
(05:51):
time and then you kind of justwent on into that full time, or
how did that transition happen?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I've always been doing my artwork.
The Lord had it to where, evenin high school, I took art for
four years.
Just things worked out that way.
Even since I was about fouryears old, I had one of them
gold spine books.
You know that kids have, yeahyeah.
The golden binding and I saw alittle it was a porpoise or
(06:18):
dolphin or something and I drewit and I went, I can do this.
And then I was drawing on likewindowsills and stuff like that.
And you know, mom didn't likethat, but uh, I've always wanted
to.
The two things I wanted to doin life I wanted to be an artist
and, uh, when I was 14, Iremember I came home one night
(06:39):
from being a bus boy and Istayed up all night long drawing
and I told best friend I saidI'm going to be an artist one of
these days.
Wow, and I didn't know whatthat meant.
And, um, and since I was five, Iwanted to be in ministry and uh
, so the lord is, you know, it'skind of like a meandering river
(06:59):
.
You know it's northbound but itmeanders south every once in a
while.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you knowwhat's life without a little
salt?
But that was so.
When I got to college, I wantedto be an artist and really I
didn't have anybody there at theuniversity to teach me color
and so, but I learned all youknow.
(07:22):
What do you call it?
Oh, my gosh, not confirmation.
You know my values and all thateverything, all the basics.
And then it was several yearslater, after I had given up my
artwork because it meant toomuch to me.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
And.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I had a sculpture I was working on one night and it
was just so good.
And as I was working on it, Igot a started getting a
bellyache and I thought what'sgoing on?
Well, I called my pastor he'skind of like my big brother in
Christ, you know and uh, andhe's got two colors, black and
white.
And uh, and he was, uh, he's arancher, and we were living on
(08:07):
it.
Uh, no, I wasn't living on hisranch at the time, but anyway, I
called him and I said, hi, uh,I keep getting this.
You know this, this feeling inme, you know.
And I said what do you think itis?
And he said probably the holyspirit won't to talk to you.
And I said, said well, whatshould I do?
And he said listen, click, quitdoing what you're doing instead
(08:28):
of having one.
And I said listen.
And so what I did was I satdown and prayed and I said, oh,
but Lord, look how I did this.
I mean, it was a Phil Bob opus.
You can't find it on iTunes,but uh, you know.
Um, everything was just righton that sculpture.
And and then I sat back and Iwent.
(08:52):
Every one of those sentencesstarted with personal pronoun I.
And I said, lord, I don't wantanything come between us.
And and previous to that, Ialready told the Lord, and a
friend of mine said I'll doanything God wants, so long as I
don't have to give up myartwork.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Don't ever say that, because you know what's coming
next.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, to his wisdom, my buddy didn't say a word
because he could have jumpedright on that and said well, now
, but he, let me figure it out.
And I gave my artwork upcompletely and it turned out
being 10 years.
But I told the Lord.
I said I need you to take thefire out of my belly, my passion
(09:35):
, and I would do a sculpture formuseums or something like a
commission from time to time.
But I was out of the artbusiness.
I was in full-time ministry,loved it, love it.
I was circuit preaching, doingall sorts of stuff.
And then, when I was workingwith the ministry, I moved to
Kerrville and I had been apastor for the NMJRA, which is
(10:00):
the New Mexico Junior RodeoAssociation, and had my own
ministry.
And so, anyway, I was over hereworking with ministers from all
over the world, counseling andstuff, and one day the Lord said
start painting.
I went okay.
And that was our conversationand I wouldn't touch it
beforehand.
(10:21):
And then he just startedbringing opportunities and I
said, well, lord, I don't neverpainted before other in college.
A little bit, and he said, andhe said that's alright.
I said, well, I don't have agallery.
He said I didn't ask you to,that's alright, too, told you to
paint, yeah, and what was neatis I gave my first painting to
(10:46):
him that I got in a gallerythere in Fredericksburg and I
said, lord, if this is from you,because I'd done the art thing
for a while and the rhythms thatcome with that, and I was on a
men's retreat and I said, if yousell this, I want to know that
(11:06):
I'm going down the right path.
Yeah, sure Go back into artworkbecause I didn't give it up and
it was at 2 o'clock and I wasout outside of Menard, texas,
with a bunch of men.
Well, I got home that eveningand the gallery owner called and
said hey, phil, bob, just wantto let you know.
We sold that painting about twoo'clock yesterday, or that, or
(11:28):
that.
I mean at the same time when Iwas praying and I went okay, all
right, I'm in, I'm in, I'm allin.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Wow, wow, and it's just I'm thinking about my own
story of how the Lord did this.
I was a worship leader for along time, came right out of
college leading worship musician.
That was kind of I felt like myidentity.
I was doing my basketry and allthat just kind of as a fun
thing on the side for Christmasmoney and just you know, messing
around.
I said some, some guys playgolf, some go fishing.
(12:00):
I made baskets.
That was just my, my fun thing,but my music was my, my big
deal.
And when that came to an endfor me in 2002, three right, and
I guess 2003, I went in atotally different direction as
well.
We'd gone through a big churchsplit and all this mess that
I've just kind of laid it downand really went through the next
(12:21):
few years of just a real deephealing journey that the Lord
had me on.
And so when he started, when Ifelt like I'd gone through that
and kind of was coming back tookay, I'm in a healthy place,
leaders in my life areencouraging me to step back into
my calling and this sort ofthing I was thinking in my mind.
You know, when God called me toraise up an army of artists in
(12:43):
2009, I thought it was going tobe through musicians and worship
and all this stuff that I haddone.
And the Lord was like no, no,no, no, no, no, no.
He said we're going to actuallydo this through your baskets.
And I'm like what?
Like that I make any sense?
Like I'm like like we like totell the Lord like Lord, don't
you know that nobody makes aliving from making baskets?
Don't you know that thisdoesn't make any sense?
(13:04):
Don't you know that I've neversold a painting before?
You know all of this?
And he's like yeah, I know, justmove to Asheville and I'm going
to take it from here, and it'sthe same thing.
It's like God just began toconfirm and confirm and confirm
and it's I just think it's sobeautiful and I hear this all
the time in interviews andyou're just, you know, bringing
this up again that I think somany times God gives us this
(13:26):
gift but then he, he, wants usand many times walks us through
situations that require us togive it back to him in order, so
that he can bring it back to usin a way that we don't have our
tentacles of control in it andwe know that it's him.
And I don't know about you, butbeing doing the things that I'm
doing now, it comes with somuch more joy and so much more
(13:48):
freedom, because, you know, I'mnot forcing this.
I'm just trying to respond towhat the Lord's doing in my life
and it's a lot more fun towatch him create the momentum,
if you will, than me trying tosit over here do it all myself.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yes, yeah, and it takes all the pressure off when
I know that I'm doing thisadventure, this grand adventure
called art and being a creative.
You know if there's in the leantimes, you know of the rhythms
and stuff.
I'm not the provider, he is,and so you know if he's in
(14:29):
charge of marketing.
We're good, it's so good he'sin charge of the inspiration.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
He's in charge of me making it.
He's in charge of thedistribution.
He's in charge of the profit.
He's in charge of the marketing.
He's in charge of the profit.
He's in charge of the market.
He's in charge of everything.
The issue is, can we get thatin our head and just learn to
cooperate with him.
Right, and I love what you'resaying Trust the rhythms.
That's a beautiful way to saythat.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
That's it.
And I've been doing this for 40years and off and on different
things for 40 years and off andon different things, and I can't
tell you how many times, upuntil maybe a couple of weeks
ago, somebody come up and saywhat do you do for a living?
What do you?
You know, I mean, what do youdo for a living?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah right, Because it obviously can't be this,
right, right, your life doesn'twork.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And I smile and go on .
And you know what was it?
I always say somebody else'slack of vision doesn't make me
blind.
Come on, come on, and that'syou know, I had a similar deal
in ministry.
I was worship leader for manyyears and that was my identity
as well.
(15:35):
And still I would go.
When I would go to a littlechurch or join a fellowship
somewhere and they neededsomebody in worship, and I said,
well, lord, I can do this.
And he said I know, lord, I cando this.
And he said I know we're good,are you listening?
(15:56):
And he said, no, I want yousomewhere else.
I know you can, but it's notabout your can, it's I need you
to be where I need you becausewe've had that.
You can and you do, but I don'twant you in that faculty or
(16:16):
that position at this timebecause that's not your identity
.
Yeah, you know being my son as apriest and a king.
He said that's your identity.
Yeah, and I want people to knowwhen you follow me, in spite of
the normals that are out there,you're giving permission for
other folks to be fully them.
(16:38):
Yeah, and so when I recognizeas as he is, then I'm a fully
filled bob yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I love it.
I think it's so beautiful andthis you know from.
I guess I'm a slow learner, butit takes a while to learn that.
You know we're not what we do.
You know our identities inchrist especially, we talk about
that.
Our heart can get attached tothe things that that we're we
are created for, we, and god hasdesigned us to do these things.
But our heart gets attached tothem and we think that we are
(17:07):
what we do.
And it took me a long time torealize that, man, whether I'm
selling my art or making my art,or whether I'm speaking to
somebody, or whether I'm at thegrocery store encouraging
somebody, or like right now, I'mleading a life group at our
church and I'm just loving it,all of that's the kingdom and
I'm just God's steward and hegets to point me in whatever
(17:28):
direction he wants to do andturn on whatever part of me that
he needs at that time.
Man, if you can just get thatin your heart for all of us, it
really does.
Let you live with a lot moregrace and a lot more, I don't
know.
Just rest in him that this ishis story and he's going to use
me in the way that he wants to,and the quicker that I will
(17:50):
learn to submit to that andcooperate with him, the easier
it's going to be on both of us.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Exactly, it's like, you know, it's a point of
agreeing with him.
Yeah, you know when a good handis somebody who helps where
it's needed, not where they wantto.
You know, but, lord, I want tohelp you here.
I know I got somebody there.
I need you to help me overthere.
Yeah, but you know, but that'snot sexy.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Nobody knows about that one Lord.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Exactly and like what you're saying, matt.
It is so important, especiallyabout as a creative.
It's one of those deals wherewe can't not.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
It's going to come out somewhere right, it is.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
And even during that 10 years, which, like I said,
I'd planned on it being for therest of my life Um, I built a
porch.
It was 1500 square feet, threelevels, had a trap door for the
kids and a rock wall and allthat stuff.
And and, uh, so you, I can'tnot create.
And that's really thedefinition of an artist.
(20:32):
It's not if you make a livingor you've done this or been in
that, it's you can't not.
And I have never met so manycourageous people as those that
walk in the creative, becausethat is the family business
Absolutely.
That's what our dad does for aliving, come on.
(20:53):
But we've never been therebefore.
And that's what takes so muchcourage is every time I start a
painting.
I've never been there beforeand I had a mentor of mine.
I was at a workshop and I said,oh, you think we're painting
(21:14):
outside?
And I said you fixing to doanother masterpiece?
And he said well, I don't know,I've never done this painting
before.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
You had to be determined.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I was like I thought, if you just you know, once
you're there, that you just pickup a brush and stuff happens
and everybody loves you andwants to buy your work.
And it's not that way.
Every day is from scratch andit's a day of complete trust.
(21:42):
And I just finished with aworkshop at the Museum of
Western Art down in Kerrvilleand I was telling my class.
I said, you know, to trust whatGod has given you is the most
important thing.
You know, like to grab the hindend of a brush and stand back
there and just do the whole flowback and forth.
And it's when we paint with ourfingers that we're trying to
(22:05):
control and contrive and andwhatever.
When I trust and have fun,that's going to come out in my
paintings, whatever my intent is, that's coming out.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, that's a great transitionbecause I was just, you know
you are obviously, you know anincredible lover of Jesus
walking in the kingdom andeverything God's created you to
do.
I know, you know, believe inthe full gifts of the spirit on
display and everything that youdo so and yet at the same time,
you are fully in the what somemight call the secular art world
(22:42):
and doing you know what God'scalled you to do there.
I'd love to get yourperspective on this, because one
of the things I see the enemyreally get as a hang up in a lot
of artists who love Jesus andwant to pursue their art is that
they feel this it's almost likethis religiosity that comes on
that says, well, I've got to doit, it's got to have doves and
(23:03):
crosses and all this kind ofstuff, it's got to be overt
biblical imagery, it's got to behave a scripture verse on it or
something like that, or atleast have a biblical theme.
And I just love it when anartist like you, you know, comes
on the scene and and guys go toPhil Bob's website and we'll
share that in a little bit whatit is but your work like oozes
(23:24):
the glory of God and yet there'snothing about, you know, phil
Borman, prophetic artists,christian artists, that sort of
thing.
So talk about that, thattension for you, that balance
for you know, phil Borman,prophetic artist, christian
artist, that sort of thing.
So talk about that tension foryou, that balance for you of how
you walk fully as somebodythat's walking in the kingdom
and yet God's also giving you somuch grace and favor in the
(23:44):
quote, unquote secular art worldto do what you do without all
the Christian Christianesebaggage, if you will.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Right, with all the iconography and and stuff like
that that comes with it.
Well, I asked him that and, um,you know, because, uh, you know
, this artwork it's a, it's aluxury, or you know, in the
realm that I'm in, and and hesaid you are prophesying my
glory, you know.
And it goes right back to myintent.
(24:13):
Your intent will always be seen.
If I paint to sell, then allI'm going to get out of it is
transactions.
And he is not interested in atransactional Phil Bob.
I'm not vying for his attention.
(24:34):
Me being fulfilled, and healready put in my, my heart, I
want to, I want you to paintclouds.
And years before I went intopainting and it was like a
memory of going oh, I want topaint clouds, yeah, and it's my
passion.
Uh, me being the fullest, me isthe present to everybody around
me.
You know that's.
(24:54):
And you being the fullest, youand all of your facets, what the
enemy wants us to do is to stopat one facet and make it a mask
.
So it's our identity.
And but no, you know, fulfilledmats or fulfilled fill bobs are
multifaceted.
We shine like jewels and infact, talk about prophetic art.
(25:19):
I have done a couple ofpaintings that have doves or
crown or whatever on there, andit was what the Lord showed me
when I was over at Latimer'sstudio and we had a gathering
one night, and walking into herstudio it was like walking
inside of a shofar.
Right you know, if you don't seeJesus, you weren't there.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
That's right, you weren't looking.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
And I asked the Lord.
I said Lord.
I said don't you?
I don't see bubbles, I don'tsee birds, I don't see the
crosses in the sky or anything,and I mean there's times when I
do, but as far as my artwork, Idon't see that.
And he said hon, he calls mehon.
And he said hon, he calls me hon.
He said you are glorifying mewith each and every painting
(26:12):
that you do and it's your intentand I always, ever since I
started it's painting one sky ata time, showing God's glory one
sky at a time.
And there is no mundane withhim.
That's right, and so it's likebecause my intent will be seen.
(26:34):
And you just made my day whenyou said it just oozes God's
glory.
And I have been in a gallerywhere, as an artist, you're
anonymous.
People know your work but theydon't know.
And I'm standing right next tosomebody and I heard somebody
say oh, I just see God's glory.
Oh, if I had a tail, I'd havewagged it.
(26:57):
You know, I was Nothing better,right Nothing better, nothing
better, but it's not religious,and see, he's so far beyond that
.
He's not religious and see,he's so far beyond that.
Yeah, he's not threatened, heis.
You know, I think about the,the story we call the prodigal
son, but it's more about thefather.
That's right and and whether wego and live the wildlife, been
there, done that, got drawerfull of t-shirts and or uber
(27:21):
religious, he has grace and lovefor both.
Yeah, I know, like I know, Iknow, but come here.
He said, just come to me,you're welcome at the party.
So, anyway, for other artists,I just want to say what's in
your heart is exactly what weneed to see.
The rest of the world and what'sin your heart.
(27:42):
That is something Like, matt,we just talked about, you know,
between the two of us, but thisis for anybody.
Your baskets are the key tosomebody's permission,
somebody's release.
Yeah come on, and you know, andthere's, you know, as you've
(28:04):
probably heard, a thousandmillion, big in times.
You know, basket weaving,exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
No, that's how or somebody said I'm glad somebody
finally found something to dowith kudzu.
I said I need to start takingup a nickel for every time
somebody says that yeah, youknow and uh, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I always tell people, like you know, this is cool
that I make a living paintinghumidity.
You know I love it.
So how is that the thing is?
It's from my heart, and Lordtold me.
He said every time somebodylooks at one of your paintings,
(28:43):
it's prophesying.
Because my intent is being seen.
It's like when you go to amuseum and you step in front of
something you know, an exhibit,and you you have your cell phone
or speakers and it startstalking about that exhibit,
right.
Every time somebody stands infront of your painting or your,
your baskets or whatever it is adrawing, drawing, sculpture, it
(29:06):
is prophesying, declaring yourintent, and so it's, you know,
and that's really our identityis.
Our identity is not based onour transactions.
You know, his grace is not awage, his blessings are not a
(29:27):
wage so it's a gift and that'sthat's for us to know.
I don't have to earn it, yeah,you know.
And my boys, when they'regrowing up, they say, daddy, are
you so, oh, so proud of me?
And I said hon, I said I loveto watch you sleep when you're
not doing anything.
It's knowing you're breathingblessed.
(29:47):
Yeah, yeah and and so that's sogood.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I think.
So many times we settle fortransactions and god's trying to
get us to lean intotransformation, right, I mean?
Amen, yes, you know absolutely.
He wants to change us in theprocess and and and make us
trust him in the mystery of.
We don't know what we'recreating or what he's going to
use it for.
But even in spite of us or ournot understanding, he takes that
piece and uses it for his glory.
(30:12):
And you keep talking about youknow being the fullest you I
just keep hearing that quote ofSt Irenaeus you know the glory
of God?
Is man fully alive, and that'swhat Jesus died for is that we'd
be fully alive, fully restoredto the kingdom, fully alive in
him to walk in everything thatthey designed us for.
(30:33):
And I just think, wow, that'swhat this life is about, not
painting this specifically orthat specifically.
It's like God cares much morethat we create than what we
create, as long as we're justinviting him into the process.
Yes, and it's reallyinteresting that genres for
painting than what we create, aslong as we're just inviting
them into the process.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
You know, yes, and that's you know it's.
It's really interesting that umgenres for painting or
different kinds of artwork, itwas established after the fact.
Creativity is brand new.
By definition, it has no genrebecause it hadn't been completed
yet in the process.
And you know, I think about andyou've probably talked about
(31:10):
this before, I'm sure aboutBezalel.
Yeah, I know you have.
Yeah, I know you have.
I've listened to your deal.
I was like, oh, yeah, you knowthat he was anointed with all
this creativity, but that's so.
We don't fit into a genre, we'renever made to fit.
And I would say probably one ofthe greatest lies out there is
(31:32):
homogenization, being the sameor emulating for a definition,
because like, okay, matt is asuccess, so I want to be just
like Matt, so I can be a success.
Well, that's not true Matt'sMatt, you know, for being a
(31:55):
complete success, I need to beme to be a complete success and
trust that I'm enough and, infact, even more than that, trust
that I am a blessing to allaround.
And you know it's faith everyday.
(32:17):
Because we you know the vainimaginations that talks about
scripture we never imaginate up,we always imaginate down.
We don't spiral up and say,well, I'm just to this, or he
does that.
That's not true.
You know, as you know, you goto an art show and the trials
and the hard things that we gothrough everybody goes through
right, you know the, thepressures and and we encourage
(32:43):
one another and it's encouragingto see that other people have
survived.
But, um, you know, I would sayto everyone follow your bliss.
My wife, uh deanna, uh told,told her kids that you know,
follow your bliss, follow yourbliss.
And that's another way ofsaying is follow your peace.
Where is the lord leading?
(33:04):
And, like said, he's alreadygiven it to you.
He gave you the inspiration.
So when something comes out onthe canvas or I'm writing a song
or something, that's the secondtime it's been mentioned.
The first time was To you right, to me, yes, and you know,
(33:26):
because he put it that deep downin there, oh good.
And then when I trust himenough to let it out, and so
that's why I say, watchingsomebody, it doesn't matter the
skill level you know, we weretalking about earlier today is
that pursuit of excellence isexcellence.
(33:53):
That is, and artistic integrityor the pursuit of integrity is
integrity.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Right, you know, it's always growing, it's always
maturing, right.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, exactly, and you know, I always say that you
can see further than you canthrow, so your vision will
always out-distance your abilityto get there.
By the time you get there, youcan see further.
That's right.
And so that means I've got roomto grow every day.
And in competition, I've hadpeople say, or ask is it
(34:25):
competitive in a gallery whenthere's 60, some odd artists
from all over the world?
And the answer is no, right,because we say something
different and so we have room toencourage everybody.
And so there's, you know, I wasas I was getting, you know,
(34:45):
really into the clouds subjectmatter, you know, and this was
my passion.
And I was looking at an artistwho passed about 10 years ago,
wilson Hurley, and he was thecloud guy.
And then there's anothergentleman is it Paul Nisbet?
Out of Santa Fe, and I lookedonline at their work and I went,
(35:09):
oh my goodness, how could Iever paint a cloud?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
What was I thinking?
I'm going to, you know, shakethe dust off my blue vest and go
back to being a greeter at.
Walmart, you know.
But after I was dejected for afew days and this is all inside
of me, right, right and then Iwent back and I studied some
more and I was looking at theirbooks and I went wait a minute,
(35:37):
they're saying somethingcompletely different.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
There is no similarity and you know it's
like, uh, in Western art art, ifyou see a guy riding a bronc.
Well, how many people have donethat right?
Everybody it's still doing it,but every one of them's
different, and so that's what'sso wonderful.
This is, I would say, this isthe diversity, uh, uh.
(36:04):
Training that we need is totrust the Lord and being
ourselves, and not followingbehind someone.
We can learn from them, but notfollowing.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
That's so good.
Well, man, listen, what a joyto be with you today and just
get to hear more of what makesyou tick and what the Lord is
doing in your life.
I know that folks are going towant to connect with you on your
website and social media andall that kind of thing.
Find out any other classes orshows that you're doing, so
where can they connect with you?
What's your website?
Any socials that you want toshare?
And then just any finalencouragement for everybody on
(36:35):
the show today Okay, well it's,my website is
philbobbormanfineartcom.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Isn't that right?
My love, okay.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
What's the name again ?
Speaker 2 (36:47):
That's right, I spelled it right.
I'm good, all right, and that'sour website and you can hook up
through our email and stuffthere.
And then we have an Instagrampage and it's PhilBobBormanArt,
and then also Facebook andthat's PhilBobBorman art and
then also Facebook and that'sPhil Bob Borman art.
(37:09):
I'm looking at Deanna and she'sgiving me thumbs up.
She is the that.
You know.
If somebody said, phil Bob,I'll give you a million dollars
to get on Facebook tomorrow, I'dhave to go back to work because
I don't even know how to get onit.
But that's how you can get ahold of me, you know, uh, and
(37:30):
just email us through those, ormessage through Facebook or
Instagram.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Awesome, Awesome, Well, man, listen, what a joy.
And, uh, I might have to rideover there to Abilene and and uh
, or tell me the little townagain, not Abilene, but right.
It's, it's Merkel I might rideout to Merkel one day.
We're gonna have to have lunchand and have lunch and just have
a longer conversation because Ijust I love what God's doing in
(37:53):
your life and what he's pouringthrough you and I know it's
been an inspiration to everybodylistening today.
So thanks so much for being onthe show today Very well, thanks
.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Thanks a bunch, matt.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Hey, my friend, before you go, make sure that
you're signed up for theThriving Christian Artists
Weekly.
It's my free newsletter, fullof spiritual encouragement,
creative inspiration andpractical tips to help you
thrive in everything that God'scalled you to do as an artist in
his kingdom.
Every issue is absolutely freeand it includes the latest
podcast episode, featured artistspotlights, a worship song of
(38:20):
the week and, again, tons oftips and encouragement and
inspiration for you to keep youinspired and encouraged in
everything that God's got foryou as an artist in the kingdom.
You can click the link righthere in the show notes to join
us, and it's a great way to stayconnected.
All right, love you Bye.
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