June 23, 2025 • 55 mins
Our 2025 Silmarillion journey continues with Chapter 18 of Quenta Silmarillion - Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin.
In Chapter 18, Angband breaks loose upon Beleriand. What ensues is the The Battle of Sudden Flame and its terrible aftermath.
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In Chapter 18, Angband breaks loose upon Beleriand. What ensues is the The Battle of Sudden Flame and its terrible aftermath.
Silm Guide Link: https://www.tolkienroad.com/silmguide/sg21/
To support our work here, please visit Patreon.com/TolkienRoad.
Enjoy!
OTHER LINKS:
Video of this episode: https://youtu.be/3RQYy0j4fT4
Watch AD-FREE: https://www.patreon.com/posts/131971589
Listen AD-FREE: https://www.patreon.com/posts/68251527
Buy Tolkien Road merch @ True Myths Press
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-tolkien-road--5222755/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey there, fellow travelers. Our twenty twenty five Silm Million
journey continues with chapter eighteen of Quintisilmarillion, of the ruin
of Bellarion and the fall of Fingolfin. In chapter eighteen
Onban breaks loose upon BEALERIOND. What ensues is the Battle
of Sudden Flame and its terrible aftermath. Over the next
several months, will continue revisiting the entire thirty episode Silm
(00:20):
Million series that Greta and I recorded back in twenty
twenty two. While you're listening, check out Silmguide dot com.
That's Silmguide dot com for guides to individual chapters. You
can find that link in the show notes. To support
our work here, please visit patreon dot com slash Tolkien
Road Enjoy. Hey there, fellow travelers, Welcome to the Tolkien Road,
(00:41):
Episode two ninety seven. Greta, Hey, hoy, hoy.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Hoy, hoy. Yes, that's a new one.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yes, huh hoy, OHI to you.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Thank you. I'm quite sure what that means. That same
back at.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Your pal, right exactly.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
In this episode, we will be discussing chapter eighteen of
the Silmarillion, of the Coming of the Room of the
run of Belarion in the Fall of Fin golfin notes nephew,
there sorry of the Room of Blarion in the Fall
of Fin Golfin so yeah, two things happen in this chapter.
Bli gets ruined and Finn Goolfin falls yep. Spoiler alert,
spoiler alert. All right, before we get started, we'd like
(01:21):
to give a double up air five to our patrons.
Get them up there, three two one o boom. Nice. Oh,
I got my map pulled up here. Let me take
that off for a second. We'll get back to that
special Thanks to this episodes executive producers John R. Caitlin
of t with Tolkien, Jacob Lockham, John H and Scotchy Bobo.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
We have five.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
That's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I mean, you know, I can't believe we have all
the patrons that we do. It's awesome too, you know. Yeah,
they're they're all amazing, and man, those executive producers just man,
thank you, thank you really, yeah, you know, that's it's awesome.
It is. We really appreciate all of our patrons, you know,
just everybody who provides that support to us and has
(02:06):
been doing a lot of them doing it for a
very long time. So it's very cool.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
It's very cool. Yeah, couldn't do it without you, guys,
that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
No, absolutely not. All right, Well, hey, youtuo can become
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Road patrons by visiting patreon dot com slash Tolkien Road.
Doing so get you cool perks like twenty percent off
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Learn more at patreon dot com, slash Tolkien Road, and
(02:35):
hey on YouTube, you can hit that like button. Don't
forget to subscribe and let us know what's on your
mind in the comments below. Always love hearing from folks
in response to these episodes, especially in the summarily, and
letting us know what you know things stood out to
you about this particular chapter. We also say on YouTube
if you're if you want to support us financially but
(02:56):
you're not able to, you know, become an ongoing patron
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(03:17):
just want to give us a tip, say thanks for
the episode. Really enjoyed something. That's a great way to
uh to let us know, send us your love, right,
so appreciate it. All right, Well, let's talk about the
quote of the week, which is from this chapter, and
here we go. Two men. More Goth feigned pity if
(03:38):
any would harken to his messages, saying that their woes
came only of their servitude to the rebel Noldor, but
at the hands of the rightful Lord of Middle Earth,
they would get honor and adjust reward of valor if
they would, if they would leave rebellion. Yeah, so you know,
we see more of this. How does how does more
Goth operate with respect to men now that they have
(04:00):
arrived on the scene. Well, he's trying to basically manipulate
them and and harm whatever belief and hope they might
have in the in the Lords of the West and
ultimately in a Luvatar and to make the case that
he is the true lord of Middle Earth, of Arta,
and that they should support him, and that he will,
(04:22):
you know, he'll he'll be nice to them if they
would just obey. Right, So that's how more Goth operates.
So we'll see how that plays out over the course
of the next several chapters. All right, Well, let's dive
into chapter eighteen. So Chapter eighteen concerns the Battle of
Sudden Flame and the aftermath thereof. It sets in motion
(04:43):
the action packed final third of the Selmar Million, in
which many of the great stories of the First Age occur.
In other words, we've been setting the stage for the
last several chapters, right, so the last ever since really
the Darkening of eleanor the return of the noldor it's
been kind of some stage setting for several chapters, and
now these last one, two, three, seven chapters are pretty
(05:06):
action packed. This is I would say the most action
packed part of the entire sell million, Right. It's interesting
how it's structured. You kind of have a lot front
loaded and then you have the most really backloaded. Right,
So this is where you really want to set up
in your seat, pay attention, and there's going to be
a lot of a lot of plot unfolding.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So yeah, it's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah for sure. As with each episode, we won't be
covering every detail of this chapter, but instead doing our
best to hit the high points and unpack interesting and
important details. If we miss something, you guys want to
discuss more. Let us know our timeline. So where are
we in the timeline the history of Arta. We are
in the years of the Sun four fifty five through
four sixty three, So this the events in this chapter
(05:51):
cover about an eight year period and I'm getting that
from the War of the Jewels the volume eleven in
the History of Middle Ar series where it lays us
on that out a nice timetable for a lot of
these events. All right, So Battle of Sudden Flame. So
let's so the chapter starts off discussing, discussing fing Golfin
(06:15):
and basically saying, look, fing Golfin, who at this point
is the high King of the noldor he is, Well,
he's concerned that they need to proactively do something about
more like they need to actually proactively attack more goth Right.
So you know, we've been having the siege of Angband
now for a long period of time. It's been pretty quiet,
(06:37):
but Larion has been enjoying a period of relative peace
and fin Golfin, you know, as is want to happen.
I think with people who find themselves an ultimate authority,
is kind of always is like on his toes a
little bit more than everybody else, you know, just thinking
to himself like, Okay, no one else is going to
be like it is going to be thinking about should
we proactively attack more Goth. It's going to be me right, Yea.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
There's a burder of responsibility there, this.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Great burden of responsibility, and so he wants to but
he can't quite get the support that he needs in
order to make it happen. So it turns out he's right.
It turns out he's right that they should maybe they
should have proactively attacked and uh and we see why
just a little bit into this chapter with a battle
(07:23):
of sudden Flame. So let's read account of this battle.
Make my font a little larger there, all right, So
we have two and a little more paragraphs. Do you
want to start or do you want me to start?
I'll start, all right.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
There came a time of winter when night was dark
and without moon, and the wide plane of ard gallons
stretched dim beneath the cold stars, from the hill forts
of the Noldor to the feet of the.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Thing gorge Room.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
The watch fires burned low, and the guards were few
on the plain. Few were waking in the camps of
the horsemen of Hlam. Then suddenly more goth sent forth
great rivers of flame that ran down swifter than balrogs
from thangor Drum, and poured over all the plain, and
the mountains of iron belched forth fires of many poisonous hues,
(08:17):
and the few of them sank upon the air and
was deadly. Thus Ardgalum perished, and fire devoured its grasses,
and it became a burned and desolate waste, full of
a choking dust, barren and lifeless. There thereafter its name
was changed, and it was called on fog On Fogles,
the gasping dust. Many charred bones had their roofless grave,
(08:43):
for many of the Noldor perished in that burning who
were caught by the running flame and could not fly
to the hills. The heights of Dorthonian and Aridwythron held
back the fiery torrents, but their woods upon the slopes
that looked towards Enband were all kindled, and the smoke
wrought confusion among the defenders. Thus began the fourth of
(09:04):
the great battles, Dagor Bragolach, the Battle of Sudden Flame.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
In the front of that fire came Glawrung, the Golden
father of Dragons, in his full might, and in his
train were bowrogs. And behind them came the black armies
of the Orcs, in multitudes such as the Noldor had
never before seen or imagined. And they assaulted the fortresses
of the Noldor and broke the leger about Angband, and
slew wherever they found them. The Noldor and their allies
(09:30):
gray elves and men, many of the stoutest of the
foes of Morgoth were destroyed in the first days of
that war. Bewildered and dispersed, and unable to muster their strength.
War ceased not wholly ever again in Belleriand, but the
Battle of Sudden Flame is held to have ended with
the coming of spring, when the onslaught of Morgoth grew less.
Thus ended the siege of Agband, and the foes of
(09:52):
Morgoth were scattered and sundered one from another. So this
all brings to an end this period of relative peace.
Let's look at the let's look back at our map
here so of valariond so on Fouglyth, right, this was
once our gall in this plane upon which you know,
really the siege was conducted of, you know, and we
have up here just north of where it says on
(10:14):
Foglyth this is where the uh, this is where a
bond is, right. So basically we have up from the
north these rivers of fire and then behind them glow
rung and the bow rocks and armies of works kind
of pouring out. So this is this is like the
pearl harbor, right, It's like the Pearl Harbor of Yea,
(10:36):
of of more Goth, of the Wars of Bealerion. Sneak attack, Yeah,
big time sneak attack and fire.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Just seems really unfair.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, like I know, I know Moreroth doesn't play fair,
but I just feel like that was you know, I mean,
that's basically like a volcano erupting, right, I mean it's
just so much damage and such a short amount of time.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, well, all's fair and love than war, as they say, right,
it's probably more so in war. I don't really know
that the love part of that is actually true, but
at least in the practice of war, that's how it
tends to be. So yeah, we also here mentioned of Dorthonian, right,
which is this you know region here that's kind of
(11:19):
encircled in mountains and hills, and it's kind of this
natural barrier to too Agban, to to more Goth's efforts.
And it's very fortunate that really that it exists here
because you think about it, if if this was not here,
then it would be kind of this wide open area
that that more Goth and his forces would have to
get into the rest of valariond. But it really serves
(11:41):
as like this just natural wall, right, or at least
a big speed bump, right, So we're going to find that,
you know, really there is a a fortunate you know,
just geographical situation that prevents this from being from Billarion
(12:03):
just being completely overrun all at once. And really more
Goth will have to deal you know, although this is
kind of a victory for him, right, he will have
to deal with how he gets through, you know, getting
through getting his forces around Dorthonian into you know, into
this western or eastern area here over in the Lothlon area.
(12:26):
And also this very narrow pass the veil of Syrion
right here right that he has to find a way through,
and that's guarded by this meanest hearth and told Syrion
over here, and also Ethel Syrion on the west guarding
the land of Hlam right here. So this name on Fauglyth,
(12:47):
I love. It means gasping dust. I just think to myself, like,
it sounds like you're gasping on dust as he tried
to say on Fougly like that, You're you're literally gasping
on dust as you try to say it. So it's
one of those words that I think Tolan was like,
this sounds like it should be. This just feels like
it should be the name of this of this area.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, I what a what a terrible sensation? Oh yeah,
to be gasping on dust? Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
All right. So significant events of this battle. We have
the emergence of glau Rung. Of course we'd seen before
he had he had made an emergence many years ago,
but had been kind of too young and upset more
Goth and more Goth. So back in your kennel, right,
it's like you're not ready, You're not ready. For this
yet all right, So, but now he appears to be ready.
Deaths of Arod and Agnore. Right, so they are two
(13:37):
of the sons of Fennarfin and so brothers of Galadriel
and of Finnrod. We have the death of Brigelus, the
lord of the House of Bayor. Right. One thing to
note it mentions that there have been basically six generations since,
you know, since the arrival of Men. I'm doing the
(13:57):
math on that, and I'm not sure that quite all
adds up. I didn't go deep into it, but in
terms of the timeline that we have laid out, I'm
not sure that that much that I mean, I think
of a generation is like normally forty years and maybe
like more like you know, twenty years. But I don't know.
Maybe there was an idea that they needed to repopulate,
(14:17):
you know, even more quickly, right, reproduce even more quickly
as men because there.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Was you know, because of the threat and the threat.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, so I thought it said just before there were
six generations, But maybe I read that wrong.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I mean, not that it makes a huge difference in
the math.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, oh see, when but when the sixth generation of
men after b Or and Mark were not yet to
come to full manhood. Okay, so yeah, I guess they
were there, but they weren't fully grown.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah, it actually says here it being then four hundred
years and fifty and five and fifty since the coming
of Fenolfin. Yeah, so yeah, sixth generation, six generations have
been after Bayor and Morok were not yet come to
full manhood.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
So to the young, Yeah, sixth generation was young half generations.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, maybe, but anyway, it just seems like it might
be a little bit of a tight timeline for that.
But anyway, no one said this was you know, again,
this was not published by Tolkien in his lifetime, so
he did not have a chance to work out all
of the all of the sticky details. And there are
actually some other details. Uh. In fact, when we hear
about Gilgalad in this chapter being the son I believe
(15:23):
of who was it being the son of anyway, there's
there's there's actually confusion again something I'm not going to
go into in this in this episode, but there is
confusion about whose whose son gil Galad actually is right
where he comes where he comes in terms in terms
of the generations of an old or so anyway, so
(15:48):
we have the death of Angrod and ignore Bregelus, and
then hod Or the Golden Haired, who's another great man,
a great leader of the House of Men die, Yeah,
and then Finnrod rescued, is rescued by bara Here and
swears an oath of abiding friendship and aid. Bar Here
will come to learn more of and he is the
father of Baron, who is the namesake one of the
(16:10):
namesakes of the next chapter of Baron and Luthian. So
this will be something that recurs in that chapter, right,
something that comes back and is important in that chapter.
All right. Next we have Fingolfin. Well he gets a
little mad, He's.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, rightly.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
So I loved everything about this portion of the chapter. Yeah, yes,
I just like the description, the way it was written,
like everything. It was my favorite part.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, it's it's pretty cool. All right.
So well let's read it. Let's see, we've got again
several paragraphs on this one, so maybe we'll just go
back and forth on this one. I'll start off, well,
we want you want me to start off for you,
all right, Thus he came alone, Fingolfin. Thus Fingolfin came
alone to Ngband's gates, and he sounded his horn and
(17:04):
smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth
to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
That was the last time in those wars that he
passed the doors of his stronghold. And it is said
that he took not the challenge willingly, for though his
might was greatest of all things in this world alone
of the Valar, he knew fear. But he could not
now deny the challenge before the face of his captains,
for the rocks rang with the shrill music of Fngolfin's horn,
and his voice came keen and clear down into the
(17:33):
depths of Angband, and Fngolfin named Morgoth Craven, the lord
of slaves. Therefore Morgoth came, climbing slowly from his subterranean throne,
and the rumor of his feet was like thunder underground.
And he issued forth, clad in black armour, and he
stood before the king like a tower, iron crowned, and
his vast shield sable unblazoned, cast a shadow over him
(17:56):
like a storm cloud. But Fngolfin gleamed beneath them as
a star, for his mail was overlaid with silver, and
his blue shield was set with crystals, and he drew
his sword wringle that glittered like ice.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Then Morgoth hurled aloft Grond, the hammer of the underworld,
and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But
Fingolfin sprang aside and groaned rent a mighty pit in
the earth. When smoke and fire darted, many times morgoth
Is sayed to smite him, and each time Fingolfin leaped
away as a lightning shoots from under a dark cloud.
And he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds. And seven times
(18:32):
Morgoth gave a cry of anguish whereat the host of
Angband fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries
echoed in the northlands.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
But at the last the king grew weary, and Morgoth
bore down his shield upon him thrice he was crushed
to his knees, and Thrice arose again and bore up
his broken shield and stricken helm. But the earth was
all rent and pitted about him, and he stumbled and
fell backward before the feet of Morgoth. And Morgoth set
his foot upon his neck, and the weight of it
(19:01):
was like a fallen hill. Yet with his last and
desperate stroke, Fingolfin hewed the foot with wringle, and the
blood gushed forth, black and smoking, and filled the pits
of grand.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Thus died Fingolfin, high King of the noldor, most proud
and valiant of the Elvin kings of old. The Orcs
made no boast of that duel at the gate. Neither
do the elves sing of it, for their sorrow is
too deep. Yet the tale of it is remembered still,
for Throndor, king of Eagles, brought the tidings to Gondolein
and to hislam afar Off, and Morgoth took the body
of the Elvin king and broke it, and would cast
(19:35):
it to his wolves. But Thorndor came hasting from his
eyrie among the peaks of the Krysagrim, and he stooped
upon Morgoth and marred his face. The rushing of the
wings of Thorndor was like the noise of the winds
of Manway, and he seized the body in his mighty talons, and,
soaring suddenly above the darts of the Orcs, he bore
the king away, and he laid him upon a mountain
(19:56):
top that looked from the north upon the hidden valley
of Gondolen. Torgon coming built a high cairn over his father.
No Orc dared ever after to pass over the mount
of Fingolf and or draw nigh his tomb, until the
doom of Gondolin was come, and treachery was born among
his kin. More Goth went ever halt of one foot
after that day, and the pain of his wounds could
(20:16):
not be healed. And in his face was the scar
that thornd Or made. Yeah, so I just wanted to
show this image here. This is from This is by
mentasic eight on and I found this over on deviant Art.
Let me see if I can, Yeah, mentosic eight So
(20:38):
I will link to this image if you want to
go check it out for yourself. Very very cool image
that kind of just shows, you know, I just really
like this depiction, I guess. I will say notice that
in this depiction at least, and I don't think it
mentioned in the text whether whether Morgoth wore his iron
(20:59):
crown and with the three silver rules in it, but
we see the three silver mereles depicted within the iron
crown here. So I kind of find that. I wonder
if he did, if he was like, well, I don't
want to take the three Silver Rules with me because
then I might, you know, I might actually lose one
or something like that. Right, yeah, but he may have, right,
he may have so. But anyway, I just think this
(21:21):
is a great image that shows like, you know, because
you have to think, like, Okay, this is Fingolfin. I mean,
he's an elf, so he's you know, he's not small,
but he's going up against basically the greatest of the gods, right,
the most powerful of the gods. This is you know,
this is probably not going to end well for him,
and you know, I think he handles himself as well
as he possibly can, but at some point he's just
(21:45):
he's just fed off. It's kind of like a a
David and Goliath scene that ultimately goes the opposite way
you want it to go. So yeah, unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I wish this image only.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
My only wish with this image is that it would
it would make I love that description of a Fingolfin
shining like a star, like I think that's you know,
just that whole idea of the light, you know, the
light trying to overcome the darkness anyway.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I just that's my only thing I wish he was.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I wish fin Golfin was glowing a little bit.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I can see. I see what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
There, But I love like that's exactly how I pictured
more for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, all right, Well, a couple of notes on this battle. So,
so Fingolfin dies so high King of an Old or
so the the kingship of the Old or passes to
uh to his son fing Gone. At this point more
GoF while he defeats Fingolfin is nevertheless wounded. He's wounded.
First of all, it sounds like he's as I understand it,
(22:51):
he he fingolf and hwes off his foot right completely right,
So I guess he has to have like a you know,
a wooden leg or some like that. Like he's kind
of hobbling around like a pirate at that point. I'm
not sure, but but we do. We do see that.
And also he is wounded by thrond Or the Eagle
or the Throndor and and has a pretty bad wound
(23:14):
on his face. You know. One of the themes here
we find is that more goth in this this theme
gets repeated over the course of you know, over the
course really of the entire legendarium. But more Goth. You know,
we we think that we tend to think that evil
is you know, like too often we we think in
terms of good and evil being kind of dualistic, being
(23:37):
paired together. But the truth is that evil only has
so much to spend, right, only has so much energy
to spend. And it's a lot of energy. It can
seem like a whole lot of energy at times, but
there's only so much, only so much it can do.
Only the good is truly infinite, and and so with
more Goth. Though he is the most powerful of all creatures, right,
(24:00):
he is still a creature, and he's limited, He's finite.
His the whatever life and potency is in him is
is slowly diminishing. Right. He has put much of his
life and potency into creating evil works, right, his own
evil twisted subcreations. And he is at a point now
(24:21):
where he is you know, capable of being attacked by
you know, and done battle with by a single elf. Right,
he still beats the elf, but.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Not as you know, not as impressively as we may have.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Expected, exactly exactly so. Point another another thing that I
will say is Grand is the name of his hammer.
It's also the name of the battering ram used by
the forces of Mordor in the War of the Ring.
So when you hear the name grand and the War
of the Ring, when they're using the battering ram to
break down the door of Menas Tirith, it is supposed
(24:56):
to harken back to to the to mor Goth's hammer. Right,
So there you.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Go, nice little easter egg there, Johnny.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yep, all right. So with Fingolfin gone, we learned that
that's just another kind of blows with the Battle of
Sudden Flame, the death of Fingolfin and uh and now
we learn a little bit about what Souron is up
to in all of this. All right. So sourn is
of course Morgoth's chief lieutenant at this point. And Souron
(25:31):
leads an attack and drives our Adreath out of Menus
Tireth of toll Syrians. So mentioning again Menas Tireth, this
is not the same meaness Tiarth of Lord of the Rings.
This is the meanest Tiarth that that Meanus t Earth
is named after. Okay, so uh minus Tireth uh is
the I believe it stands I believe it means tower
(25:53):
of Watch. Mean double check that, because it was originally
the one and one Lord of the Rings. Was originally
named Minas Anor, which means the Tower of the Sun,
I believe. And then when Minasithel was taken over, no
longer the tower of the Moon, so they renamed it
the Tower of the Guard, I believe. Let's see Minus
Tireth tower of the Guard. Yes, and so what is
(26:15):
the guard? What is the guard that it is providing
right now? Well, we can maybe zoom in a little here,
all right, So here's toll Syrion, the island upon which
Minas Tirith is. We see that this very narrow pass right,
this veil of Syrion here. Okay, the forces of Morgoth
want to find a way around Dorthonian. Right, they're put
(26:38):
there kind of slowly pushing back the forces of Dorthonian
that reside here. But it's a very very slow battle, right,
it's a it's a war of attrition here, and they're
not making the gains that they want to make, so
they try to go over here. They find difficulty over there,
and Suron's like, okay, let me see if I can
if I can take you know this pass right here, okay,
(26:59):
and then if we can take this past, then we
can flood Bellerion with all of our forces. So toul
Syrian is the island in the middle of the Syrian
river here and then Minas Tiareth is. The tower is
the tower of guard that stands upon it. And Salon
succeeds in his attack, driving out Orodreth. So let's read
(27:20):
a description of what this tower becomes. But at length,
after the fall off Engulfin Suron, greatest and most terrible
of the servants of Morgoth, who in the Sindharan tongue
was named gore Thar, came against Orodreth, the warden of
the tower upon toul Syrian. Saluron was become now a
sorcerer of dreadful power, master of shadows and of phantoms
(27:41):
foul and wisdom, cruel in strength, misshaping what he touched,
twisting what he ruled, Lord of werewolves. His dominion was torment.
He took Minus Teareth by assault, for a dark cloud
of fear fell upon those that defended it, and Orodreth
was driven out and fled to Nargathrund. Then Saluron made
it into a watch tower for more, Goth a stronghold
(28:02):
of evil and a menace, and the fair Isle of
Toll Syrian became a cursed and it was called Toll
in Gawarath, the Isle of werewolves. No living creature could
pass through that veil. That Suron did not a spy
from the tower where he sat. Again, we're going to
revisit this place in the next chapter. Saluron will play
(28:22):
a significant role in that chapter in that story. So,
but it becomes this Isle of were wolves now, right,
so very unpleasant sounding place for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, So now Morgoth is able to send his forces
into the rest of Balerion. You know, there's been a
lot of fighting at this point, so they may not
be as strong as they initially were. And so there's that,
you know, we also have the fact that Dorioth, right,
the forces of Dorith, the forces of King Fingle have
not really been involved in any of this, and they
are protected still by the by the magic of Meleon, right,
(29:02):
she's able to put kind of a protecting boundary around
that region. And so it's not and there are you know,
the forces of the noldor did manage to kind of
fall back and regroup. So it's not like the forces
of more goth can just pour in. And that's a
very narrow pass there as well. Right, so you know
(29:23):
it's it's not it's not to the point yet where
it's complete desperation in bealariond is overrun, but it's not
looking good for the noldor either.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah. I was thinking as I was reading this chapter
that the people that enjoy like battle planning or like
strategicy when it comes to to fight, you know, if
you like to play like you know, war games or whatever,
they would really enjoy this chapter because it's there's a
lot of a lot of strategy, yeah, as you know,
(29:51):
and stuff discussed.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's it is interesting in that regard for sure.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And having that map really helps too, oh yeah, because
you can see how it all plays out.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
All right, well, next we jump ahead and we're going
to read about the coming of the Easterlings aka the
swarthy Men. The swarthy Men, All right, sway, men, Yes,
it is told. Actually, Greta, do you want to read this?
It is told it this time.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
It is told that at this time the swarthy Men
came first into Bleirond, some were already secretly under the
dominion of Morgoth, and came at his call, but not all,
for the rumor of bealeriond of its lands and waters,
of its wars and riches went now far and wide,
and the wandering feet of men were ever set westward
in those days. These men were short and broad, long
(30:39):
and strong in the arm. Their skins were swart or sallow,
and their hair was dark, as were their eyes. Their
houses were many, and some had greater liking for the
dwarves of the mountains than for the elves. But Mithros,
knowing the weakness of the Noldor and the Adyine, whereas
the pits of Angban seemed to hold store inexhaustible and
(30:59):
every nude, made alliance with these new come men, and
gave his friendship to the greatest of their chieftains, Bor
and Olphang, and more. Goth was well content, for this
was as he had designed. The sons of Bor of
Bor were Borlad, Borloch, and Borthond, and they followed Methros
and Maglore, and cheated the hope of Morgoth, and were faithful.
(31:22):
The sons of Olphang the Black were old Fast and Olworth,
and Oldor the accursed, and they followed Karantheor and swore
allegiance to him and proved faithless.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yes, so two groups of men uh really entered this
area in terms of being the Easterlings, where we already
have the Addigne. The three houses of the Adygne are
kind of well established at this point, several generations into uh,
you know, into their existence in belariond and more. Goth
kind of is hopeful that the coming of these easterlings
(31:56):
will mean good things for him. And one of these groups,
the the people of Olfong, those who follow Karan Theor
end up being bad. Of course, current Theor believe it's
uh Ku and k on Theor we're gonna find are
both pretty of all the sons of fan Or, they're
they're kind of the most rotten, so not too surprising.
(32:19):
And then we have Methros and Maglore and and those
the men who follow them, the easter things that follow
them are the sons of bor right, so, and they
prove faithful, they prove to be good men. Yeah, I
wanted to discuss real quickly a couple of the terms here.
So swarthy and sallow, right, these are both terms that
(32:41):
I certainly you know, don't use very often.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
You know, maybe we should.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Well, I mean, I don't know. I don't know, because
you know, people get kind of you know, you gotta
be careful about what things, how you describe, how you
describe certain uh, you know, using certain terms these days, right,
But let's look at what they actually mean. So this
is from vocabulary dot Com. Ill linked to both of
these in the show notes because swarthy it's an interesting word.
(33:07):
It's kind of an ambiguous meaning, but I thought this
was a good discussion of it. Swarthi means dark skinned.
If you like tall, dark and handsome men, you find
a swarthy complexion attractive. Not everyone with dark skin is swarthy.
The word is usually used to describe someone whose skin
is weather beaten and darkened by the sun, or has
an olive complexion. But the famous nineteenth century American poet
(33:31):
Walt Whitman, who was of English and Dutch stock, seemed
to be describing himself and his poem behold this swarthy face.
So swarthy may be in the eyes of the beholder.
In terms of just kind of a dictionary definition, it's
an adjective. Naturally having skin of a dark color. A
smile on his swarthy face and most of what I
(33:52):
can find seems to indicate that it is a it's
a relative term, right. It has to do with and
it often has to do with having spent like it's
not just a the the like the tone in terms
of like the color and pigmentation of the skin necessarily,
but it has to do with like kind of being
weather beaten to kind of you know, maybe the look
(34:14):
of having spent a lot of time in the sun.
I can think about like going to the beach and
seeing folks you know, you know, maybe who like live
at the beach and just spend a lot of time
outside and they've got they've got what I would maybe
after hearing this term called swarthy skin, right, Yeah, they
are naturally what you know, I think would be probably
classified as Caucasian if they lived in this country in
(34:36):
terms of having a quote unquote white skin, but they
have they've developed a swarthy complexion, right, a darker complexion
because of having spent a lot of time in the sun.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Right. Maybe even farmers, I feel like maybe farmers would
have kind of that swarthy look about them to you again,
just that idea of being in the sun and having
you know, making your living as in the outdoors, maybe
in construction worker, you know, like people that that spent
a lot of time outdoors.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
And it would seem to make sense if these you know,
people had been wandering wandering over you know, over a
long period of time until they wound up here in
Belleriand yeah, and if they came from maybe a more
southeastly region, it would make sense that they probably spent
a lot more time under the sun right under the
like kind of stronger rays of the sun, especially as
opposed to maybe the housands of the dine that perhaps
(35:27):
came from further north. Initially.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
It's interesting there's there's a did you see this? There's
some quotes from different works of literature here, Yeah, and
one is from the Two Towers. So it's used Tolkien
uses swarthy.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Again, it's also used in Jane or Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, it's it's not a very term people use much nowadays,
at least not in my experience, but it is a
you know, it has it does have a history going
back a long way. Yeah, all right. And then salow
what is sallow well means unhealthy in appearance, often yellow
in color, and is almost invariably used to describe someone's complexion.
(36:06):
His smile was as engaging as ever, but from his
sallow complexion, I knew he was sick. Usually we say
that when someone is sick they turn green. You could
also say their skin takes on a sallow look, and
you'd mean the same thing. Salow also describes the way
someone looks if they have lost blood or pale from fever.
The word comes from Germanic roots meaning dusky or dirty,
(36:29):
and it simply means unhealthy looking. Right, So you know,
it's interesting here, where does this come from? Try to
find the actual reference. Yeah, well it says they're swart,
swart and sallow.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Swart or sallow yeah, yeah, hmm.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Long and strong in the arm. Their skins were swart
or sallow. Yeah, there you go. So, so you know,
that's what we're talking about here. It's not uh, you know,
it would seem it would seem to indicate that these
terms have more to do not necessarily with kind of
a natural skin tone, but but kind of the relative
(37:13):
relative look in terms of I don't know, just like style, lifestyle,
like what what's gone? You know what their history you
know indicates, right, right, the history of their of their
living in this world.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Yeah, if you will, it makes sense to that they
would maybe be a little sallow if they've been wandering, right,
they're probably a little bit malnourished, and you know, like
had to like beys more physically active than maybe they
have the nutrients to uh to be absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
All right, Well, let's jump ahead a little bit and
discuss who are and who are in? So who are
on who Aoran are two of the adign To, two
sons of the Adigne. They are the sons of Galdor
of door Leman, and they it just so happens that
they are dwelling that they go to battle and they
(38:11):
in the midst of this battle, they get saved by
thord Or. Right, so Thorndo the Great Eagle again comes
to help, and thord Or is like, well, I guess
I'll take them to Gondolin. Right, So they become the
first men to visit Gondolin, and they spend a year
there and to Miglen's sugar in tour, Gon lets them leave,
(38:36):
right to Gon lets them leave. So let's read a
little bit about this. Let's start there.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
But Horren, who are desired to return to their own
people and share in the wars and griefs that now
beset them. And Hoorn said to Turgon, Lord, we are
but mortal men, and unlike the elder, they may endure
for long years, awaiting battle with their enemies in some
far distant day. But for us the time is short,
and our hope and strength soon wither. Moreover, we did
(39:03):
not find the road to Gondolin, and indeed we do
not know surely where this city stands, for we were
brought in fear and wonder by the high ways of
the air, and in mercy our eyes were veiled. Then
Turgon granted his prayer, and he said, by the way
that you came, you have.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Leave to depart.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
And if Throndor is willing, I grieve at his parting.
Yet in a little while, as the eld our accountant,
we may meet again.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
But Miglen, the King's sister son, who was mighty in Gondolin,
grieved not at all at their going, though he begrudged
them the favor of the king, for he had no
love for any of the kindred of men. And he
said to Horan, the King's grace is greater than you know,
and the law has become less stern than aforetime or else,
no choice would be given you but to abide here
to your life's end.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Then Horn answered him, the King's grace is great, indeed,
but if our word is not enough, then we will
swear oaths to you. And the brothers swore never to
reveal the councils of Turgon, and to keep secret all
that they had seen in his realm. And they took
their leave, and the eagles coming bore them away by
night and set them down in door lo Min before
the dawn. Their kinsfolk rejoiced to see them, for messengers
(40:09):
from Breathdille had reported that they were lost, But they
would not declare even to their father where they had been.
Say that they were rescued in the wilderness by the
eagles that brought them home. But Galdoor said, did you
then dwell a year in the wild or did the
eagles house you in their eyries? But you found food
and fine arraignment, and return as young princes, not as
(40:30):
waifs of the wood. And Huoran answered, be content that
we have returned, for only under an oath of silence
was this permitted. Then Galdoor questioned them no more, but
he and many others guests at the truth, and in
time the strange fortune of Huoran and Hua reached the
ears of the servants of Morgoth.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yeah, so why are they able to leave where? Well,
first of all, they don't know because they were brought
there by thorn door, and they don't know the way
to Gondolin, right, other than an eagle picking you up
and bringing you there, which has control over that, right.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
And plus is that their eyes were veiled, right, so
even if they they wanted to figure it out, they
couldn't have That's right, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Right, modern ancient equivalent of throwing you in the trunk
and on the way to the secret hideout exactly, all right,
So I prefer the ancient way flying on ye yes, yes, yes, yeah.
So they get there and they spend a year, they
learn a lot from tor Gone and uh, and then
(41:31):
tor Gone lets them leave and go home. Mike Glenn
is kind of like, well, I don't like them, so
I'm glad they're leaving. But at the same time, it's
like not really fair that they get to leave, right?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
There? Is there more to that, do you think?
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Like?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Why is he so upset about that?
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Is it just because it's unfair and and he is
it does it have anything? I guess what I'm asking
is this, do you think has any route in like,
like it must write the tragedy that befell him and
his mother and his father right because his father wasn't
allowed to leave.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I mean, I'm sure there's It's weird because I don't
think my Michaelin really cared much for his father. Yeah,
I don't know that he wanted to leave. Yeah, but
I think Michaelin is one of these individuals who is
probably gonna find fault with just about anything.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
That's probably true. Yeah, yeah, it's fair.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
I think he's he's always going to be looking for,
like to to bring fault upon those who he can,
especially those he considers his potential rivals is less than him.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah, he's not always going to be up in your
face about it, but he's going to find those things.
He's gonna he's he's just he's just the type of person.
There are people out there like this way too many. Actually,
they just they just want to probe everything until they
find they find your weakness, and that's like that's what
they exist to do. They're just like they just they
it's like they can't help it. They're just like I
want to find I'm going to find your weakness. I'm
gonna act like I you know, I'm just like concerned,
(42:55):
you know, person and just want to know. But I'm
always trying to find your weakness. And when I find
your weakness, I'm going to exploit it. Right. I just
gotta watch out for those people, right I can. I'm
usually pretty good at picking up on people like that,
but I think you are. You're actually pretty good at
that too. You nor really just say somebody like that
gives you the creeps, And I'm like, okay, I understand why.
(43:16):
But you know, I don't read this as anymore than
just Michelenn saying, you know, just trying to find just
looking to find fault.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Yeah, just looking, yeah, for reasons to be unhappy and
to be at odds with others.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah. Well, and he has his own you know, he's
always scheming.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Right right, He has his own alternaymotives for sure.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
You know, he wants that throne. He wants the throne
of Gondolin ultimately from himself. Yeah. So so who are
and and who are? We're gonna learn a lot more
about them and their offspring, and the covering chapters as well.
So see all how this is setting the stage for
these stories that follow, right, who are in Of course,
we'll be in the chapter the mainart. He'll show up
(44:00):
in other chapters as well, but the main chapter that
will be of his folks on his son, the story
of his son of Tour and Tour and bar and
then who or will be the chapter of concerned Tour
in the Fall of Gondolin. Right, Tour is his son,
all right? And finally Morgoth renews his assault. Right, so,
the Els had regrouped and started to actually retake some
(44:22):
of Morgth's gains back from him, and mor Goth's like,
I can't have that. So morgothrinews his assault seven years
after the beginning of the Battle of Sudden Flame. And
here's how that goes. When seven years had passed since
the fourth battle, Morgoth renewed his assault, and he sent
a great force against Hlam. The attack on the passes
of the Shadowy Mountains was bitter. Pull up my map here.
(44:46):
And in the siege of Aithel, Syrian Galdor, the tall
Lord of dor Lomen, was slain by an arrow that
fortress he held on behalf of finger On the high King.
And in that same place his father, Hador Lorindl died
but a little time before who Are, and his son
was then newly come to manhood. But he was great
in strength, both of mind and body, and he drove
the Orcs with heavy slaughter from arid Wetherrn, and pursued
(45:07):
them far across the sands of Anfalgleth.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
But King Fingon was hard put to it to hold
back the army of Enband that came down from the north,
and battle was joined upon the very plains of Hythlam.
There Fingon was outnumbered, but the ships of Kirdan sailed
in great strength up up the Firth of Drinks, and
in the hour of need, the elves of the Phalas
came upon the host of Morgoth from the west. Then
(45:32):
the Orcs broke and fled, and the Eldar had the victory,
and their horsed archers pursued them even into the Iron mountains.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Therefore Hooran, son of Galdor, ruled the house of Hador
and door Loomen, and served Fingon. Houran was of less
stature than his father's or his son after him, but
he was tireless and enduring in body, lithe and swift,
after the manner of his mother's kin, Hareth of the Haladin.
His wife was Morwen Elithwyn, daughter of Baragund of the
(46:01):
house of Bayor, She who fled from Dorthonian with Rhon,
daughter of Belgund, and Emilder, the mother of Baron.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
In that time also the outlaws of Dorthonian were destroyed,
as is told hereafter, and Baron, son of Bara here alone,
escaping came hardly, came hardly into Doriath.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, so that would be the end of this chapter.
So quick note, so what was this? So so the
assault was renewed upon Hithlam right this region to the
west of the anfhagleth the Ethel Syrian here is this
is this tower right at the at the root or
at the what do I don't know what you call
the beginning of the river? I forget, but here at
(46:44):
the beginning of the river, and it's kind of the mount. No,
the mouth is the end right, So the mouth is
down here a Syrian. So we have the Eithel Syrian
here and there is a battle there, because it would
seem this is one of the main passes to get
into the region of Hitlam, right, and uh, you know,
(47:04):
the people of Fifthlam do a fairly decent job of
holding back More Goth's assault.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
So I feel like it ends on a fairly hopeful
note given all the death instruction that preceded it, Like, well,
maybe there's hope after all.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Well, they are fighting the long defeat, right, they're fighting
the long defeat, So there are little little ballots of hope,
and the next chapter is going to be one of those,
you know, points of hope, right, points of hope, so
for sure, but don't worry. A lot more tragedy and
bloodshed yet to come.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Just for balance, you know, you got to keep it
all balanced.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
All right, So let's do any more thoughts on this
chapter better before we do Haku, All right, let's do
Somet's rock papers scissors, shoot boom man. All right, you
go first, I go first.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
I More Goth Lord of Slaves comes forth, a fearful victor,
but with.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
One less foot. Yeah, I am nice.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
I like, I think the Lord of Slaves was a
good insult from.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah, I think that's probably what put more Goth over
the edge.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
I feel like that was like he was already bad,
and then that was just like the final straw.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
But wouldn't he want to be lord of slaves when
he'd be like, yeah, I am lord of slaves. They've
got so many slaves, right, and they all gotta do
what I say or I'm gonna whoop them. Right.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Yeah, maybe that's probably true. Evil people, he would take
that as a compliment. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I don't
know though, probably Anyway, what I was gonna say was
I found it very interesting that that in that that
part it mentioned that more Goth alone, that more Goth
(48:57):
was the only valor who knew fear.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, I found that very is I do remember that. Yeah,
that's a really a really good point. It's like he
knows at this point that even though he wins, he's
you know, he's winning these things, his days are actually
you know, his days are actually numbered.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
And I think it goes back to what you were
saying about evil, right, like evil has an end point.
There's only so much to go around, and he probably
knows that he is he's waning because of that.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
So yeah, no, that's good. I'm glad you. I'm glad
you highlighted that that's something we didn't mention in her
discussion of the chapter, and that that was a that's
a stark little note that stood out.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah, there's also I was thinking too that Olma was
mentioned this chapter, which I thought was it was cool.
I love it when the valor, the good Valor mentioned.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Well, I feel like Olmo is the one who's just
like he's always somewhere, you know, he's not far from
the people of the right because he is the lord
of water. Yeah, you know, his his dominion exists throughout
all of Middle Earth, right, whereas in the middle of
the ocean, right, not all the you know. I mean,
I guess you can make the case that Manway is there,
(50:12):
but a lay would not seem to be. And I
feel like more goth Is is a war, particularly with
al right, because more goth is always like in the earth,
like wanting to make his own like weird creations and everything.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yeah, and he's like making holes in the earth and
everything like that, like just drawing it.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
It also mentioned the Manway in this chapter mentioned that
the eagles wings like the the wind produced by the
eagles wings was like the winds of Mandwe.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely so. So Manway and Olmo feel
like they are the ever present Valar, right, they always
have some they always have their eye. They always are
aware of what's going on everywhere in Middle Earth, whereas
Aulay maybe and maybe it's because it's for that very
reason that moreg is like especially intruding upon Aulay's dominion, right, yeah, yeah,
(51:06):
you know, just even in the just even like think
about how aul mor Goth you know, creates orcs, right
and all these other you know, kind of creatures that
are sort of mockeries of the children of a Loubatar,
and just like Oula created the dwarves, but you know,
was because he submitted them to a Loubatar, they were
(51:27):
given a special kind of a special grace of life,
you know, of their own, right.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
It also just occurred to me too that and when
Bengolfin was riding to meet to assault more Goth, it
compared him to was that os that's no or that's
right Orme, and I was I thought that was that
was cool too. It's almost like a you know, a
battle of the Valar. Obviously, be Golfing is not a outlar,
(51:57):
but he appeared as one in that moment. Just because
of how he was, you know, swiftly moving toward Moroth
and maybe he maybe he was even glowing at that
point too, perhaps me perhaps, Yeah, plus he was ducked
out and lots of really cool like myth rollin like
(52:17):
blue gemmed studded shield.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Anyway, all right, right on good thoughts. All right, here's
my hoku foes Fury of Flame. Let's fly the Fierce
and the fell fingolfin Fallen.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
That's really good. Lots of f's, lots of f's.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
Yes, very nice alliteration there, thank you, very good.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Yeah, that was good.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
All right. We have one from rid Hawk as well.
Oh nice eagles save Great men Oran and whore of
them first in Gondolin.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
Oh it kind of rhymes too. Yeah, that's cool. I
like that, very cool, very good, thanks very hawk, Yes,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
All right. Well I think that's about it for this episode. Hey, subscribe,
rate and review us on iTunes or the platform of
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we got a let me pull this up, quid. We
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Oh a five star review.
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Five star that you need to read this let's see.
You got to put this down in my notes. But
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No, I'm glad you remembered. I love five star reviews.
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Well don't we all?
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Mm hmm, we do. It's true. I'm not alone in that.
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A lot better those one star review that's for sure.
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Always, I mean, five stars are always better than one
star regardless.
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Great show from windsor Pulsar on June thirteenth, Great show,
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Yes, thank you, thank you so much, short, sweeting to
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Bye y'all, bye,
Hey there, fellow travelers. Our twenty twenty five Silm Million
journey continues with chapter eighteen of Quintisilmarillion, of the ruin
of Bellarion and the fall of Fingolfin. In chapter eighteen
Onban breaks loose upon BEALERIOND. What ensues is the Battle
of Sudden Flame and its terrible aftermath. Over the next
several months, will continue revisiting the entire thirty episode Silm
(00:20):
Million series that Greta and I recorded back in twenty
twenty two. While you're listening, check out Silmguide dot com.
That's Silmguide dot com for guides to individual chapters. You
can find that link in the show notes. To support
our work here, please visit patreon dot com slash Tolkien
Road Enjoy. Hey there, fellow travelers, Welcome to the Tolkien Road,
(00:41):
Episode two ninety seven. Greta, Hey, hoy, hoy.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Hoy, hoy. Yes, that's a new one.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yes, huh hoy, OHI to you.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Thank you. I'm quite sure what that means. That same
back at.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Your pal, right exactly.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
In this episode, we will be discussing chapter eighteen of
the Silmarillion, of the Coming of the Room of the
run of Belarion in the Fall of Fin golfin notes nephew,
there sorry of the Room of Blarion in the Fall
of Fin Golfin so yeah, two things happen in this chapter.
Bli gets ruined and Finn Goolfin falls yep. Spoiler alert,
spoiler alert. All right, before we get started, we'd like
(01:21):
to give a double up air five to our patrons.
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that off for a second. We'll get back to that
special Thanks to this episodes executive producers John R. Caitlin
of t with Tolkien, Jacob Lockham, John H and Scotchy Bobo.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
We have five.
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That's so awesome.
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I mean, you know, I can't believe we have all
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It is. We really appreciate all of our patrons, you know,
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It's very cool. Yeah, couldn't do it without you, guys,
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(02:35):
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just want to give us a tip, say thanks for
the episode. Really enjoyed something. That's a great way to
uh to let us know, send us your love, right,
so appreciate it. All right, Well, let's talk about the
quote of the week, which is from this chapter, and
here we go. Two men. More Goth feigned pity if
(03:38):
any would harken to his messages, saying that their woes
came only of their servitude to the rebel Noldor, but
at the hands of the rightful Lord of Middle Earth,
they would get honor and adjust reward of valor if
they would, if they would leave rebellion. Yeah, so you know,
we see more of this. How does how does more
Goth operate with respect to men now that they have
(04:00):
arrived on the scene. Well, he's trying to basically manipulate
them and and harm whatever belief and hope they might
have in the in the Lords of the West and
ultimately in a Luvatar and to make the case that
he is the true lord of Middle Earth, of Arta,
and that they should support him, and that he will,
(04:22):
you know, he'll he'll be nice to them if they
would just obey. Right, So that's how more Goth operates.
So we'll see how that plays out over the course
of the next several chapters. All right, Well, let's dive
into chapter eighteen. So Chapter eighteen concerns the Battle of
Sudden Flame and the aftermath thereof. It sets in motion
(04:43):
the action packed final third of the Selmar Million, in
which many of the great stories of the First Age occur.
In other words, we've been setting the stage for the
last several chapters, right, so the last ever since really
the Darkening of eleanor the return of the noldor it's
been kind of some stage setting for several chapters, and
now these last one, two, three, seven chapters are pretty
(05:06):
action packed. This is I would say the most action
packed part of the entire sell million, Right. It's interesting
how it's structured. You kind of have a lot front
loaded and then you have the most really backloaded. Right,
So this is where you really want to set up
in your seat, pay attention, and there's going to be
a lot of a lot of plot unfolding.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So yeah, it's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah for sure. As with each episode, we won't be
covering every detail of this chapter, but instead doing our
best to hit the high points and unpack interesting and
important details. If we miss something, you guys want to
discuss more. Let us know our timeline. So where are
we in the timeline the history of Arta. We are
in the years of the Sun four fifty five through
four sixty three, So this the events in this chapter
(05:51):
cover about an eight year period and I'm getting that
from the War of the Jewels the volume eleven in
the History of Middle Ar series where it lays us
on that out a nice timetable for a lot of
these events. All right, So Battle of Sudden Flame. So
let's so the chapter starts off discussing, discussing fing Golfin
(06:15):
and basically saying, look, fing Golfin, who at this point
is the high King of the noldor he is, Well,
he's concerned that they need to proactively do something about
more like they need to actually proactively attack more goth Right.
So you know, we've been having the siege of Angband
now for a long period of time. It's been pretty quiet,
(06:37):
but Larion has been enjoying a period of relative peace
and fin Golfin, you know, as is want to happen.
I think with people who find themselves an ultimate authority,
is kind of always is like on his toes a
little bit more than everybody else, you know, just thinking
to himself like, Okay, no one else is going to
be like it is going to be thinking about should
we proactively attack more Goth. It's going to be me right, Yea.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
There's a burder of responsibility there, this.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Great burden of responsibility, and so he wants to but
he can't quite get the support that he needs in
order to make it happen. So it turns out he's right.
It turns out he's right that they should maybe they
should have proactively attacked and uh and we see why
just a little bit into this chapter with a battle
(07:23):
of sudden Flame. So let's read account of this battle.
Make my font a little larger there, all right, So
we have two and a little more paragraphs. Do you
want to start or do you want me to start?
I'll start, all right.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
There came a time of winter when night was dark
and without moon, and the wide plane of ard gallons
stretched dim beneath the cold stars, from the hill forts
of the Noldor to the feet of the.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Thing gorge Room.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
The watch fires burned low, and the guards were few
on the plain. Few were waking in the camps of
the horsemen of Hlam. Then suddenly more goth sent forth
great rivers of flame that ran down swifter than balrogs
from thangor Drum, and poured over all the plain, and
the mountains of iron belched forth fires of many poisonous hues,
(08:17):
and the few of them sank upon the air and
was deadly. Thus Ardgalum perished, and fire devoured its grasses,
and it became a burned and desolate waste, full of
a choking dust, barren and lifeless. There thereafter its name
was changed, and it was called on fog On Fogles,
the gasping dust. Many charred bones had their roofless grave,
(08:43):
for many of the Noldor perished in that burning who
were caught by the running flame and could not fly
to the hills. The heights of Dorthonian and Aridwythron held
back the fiery torrents, but their woods upon the slopes
that looked towards Enband were all kindled, and the smoke
wrought confusion among the defenders. Thus began the fourth of
(09:04):
the great battles, Dagor Bragolach, the Battle of Sudden Flame.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
In the front of that fire came Glawrung, the Golden
father of Dragons, in his full might, and in his
train were bowrogs. And behind them came the black armies
of the Orcs, in multitudes such as the Noldor had
never before seen or imagined. And they assaulted the fortresses
of the Noldor and broke the leger about Angband, and
slew wherever they found them. The Noldor and their allies
(09:30):
gray elves and men, many of the stoutest of the
foes of Morgoth were destroyed in the first days of
that war. Bewildered and dispersed, and unable to muster their strength.
War ceased not wholly ever again in Belleriand, but the
Battle of Sudden Flame is held to have ended with
the coming of spring, when the onslaught of Morgoth grew less.
Thus ended the siege of Agband, and the foes of
(09:52):
Morgoth were scattered and sundered one from another. So this
all brings to an end this period of relative peace.
Let's look at the let's look back at our map
here so of valariond so on Fouglyth, right, this was
once our gall in this plane upon which you know,
really the siege was conducted of, you know, and we
have up here just north of where it says on
(10:14):
Foglyth this is where the uh, this is where a
bond is, right. So basically we have up from the
north these rivers of fire and then behind them glow
rung and the bow rocks and armies of works kind
of pouring out. So this is this is like the
pearl harbor, right, It's like the Pearl Harbor of Yea,
(10:36):
of of more Goth, of the Wars of Bealerion. Sneak attack, Yeah,
big time sneak attack and fire.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Just seems really unfair.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, like I know, I know Moreroth doesn't play fair,
but I just feel like that was you know, I mean,
that's basically like a volcano erupting, right, I mean it's
just so much damage and such a short amount of time.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, well, all's fair and love than war, as they say, right,
it's probably more so in war. I don't really know
that the love part of that is actually true, but
at least in the practice of war, that's how it
tends to be. So yeah, we also here mentioned of Dorthonian, right,
which is this you know region here that's kind of
(11:19):
encircled in mountains and hills, and it's kind of this
natural barrier to too Agban, to to more Goth's efforts.
And it's very fortunate that really that it exists here
because you think about it, if if this was not here,
then it would be kind of this wide open area
that that more Goth and his forces would have to
get into the rest of valariond. But it really serves
(11:41):
as like this just natural wall, right, or at least
a big speed bump, right, So we're going to find that,
you know, really there is a a fortunate you know,
just geographical situation that prevents this from being from Billarion
(12:03):
just being completely overrun all at once. And really more
Goth will have to deal you know, although this is
kind of a victory for him, right, he will have
to deal with how he gets through, you know, getting
through getting his forces around Dorthonian into you know, into
this western or eastern area here over in the Lothlon area.
(12:26):
And also this very narrow pass the veil of Syrion
right here right that he has to find a way through,
and that's guarded by this meanest hearth and told Syrion
over here, and also Ethel Syrion on the west guarding
the land of Hlam right here. So this name on Fauglyth,
(12:47):
I love. It means gasping dust. I just think to myself, like,
it sounds like you're gasping on dust as he tried
to say on Fougly like that, You're you're literally gasping
on dust as you try to say it. So it's
one of those words that I think Tolan was like,
this sounds like it should be. This just feels like
it should be the name of this of this area.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, I what a what a terrible sensation? Oh yeah,
to be gasping on dust? Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
All right. So significant events of this battle. We have
the emergence of glau Rung. Of course we'd seen before
he had he had made an emergence many years ago,
but had been kind of too young and upset more
Goth and more Goth. So back in your kennel, right,
it's like you're not ready, You're not ready. For this
yet all right, So, but now he appears to be ready.
Deaths of Arod and Agnore. Right, so they are two
(13:37):
of the sons of Fennarfin and so brothers of Galadriel
and of Finnrod. We have the death of Brigelus, the
lord of the House of Bayor. Right. One thing to
note it mentions that there have been basically six generations since,
you know, since the arrival of Men. I'm doing the
(13:57):
math on that, and I'm not sure that quite all
adds up. I didn't go deep into it, but in
terms of the timeline that we have laid out, I'm
not sure that that much that I mean, I think
of a generation is like normally forty years and maybe
like more like you know, twenty years. But I don't know.
Maybe there was an idea that they needed to repopulate,
(14:17):
you know, even more quickly, right, reproduce even more quickly
as men because there.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Was you know, because of the threat and the threat.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, so I thought it said just before there were
six generations, But maybe I read that wrong.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I mean, not that it makes a huge difference in
the math.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, oh see, when but when the sixth generation of
men after b Or and Mark were not yet to
come to full manhood. Okay, so yeah, I guess they
were there, but they weren't fully grown.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah, it actually says here it being then four hundred
years and fifty and five and fifty since the coming
of Fenolfin. Yeah, so yeah, sixth generation, six generations have
been after Bayor and Morok were not yet come to
full manhood.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
So to the young, Yeah, sixth generation was young half generations.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, maybe, but anyway, it just seems like it might
be a little bit of a tight timeline for that.
But anyway, no one said this was you know, again,
this was not published by Tolkien in his lifetime, so
he did not have a chance to work out all
of the all of the sticky details. And there are
actually some other details. Uh. In fact, when we hear
about Gilgalad in this chapter being the son I believe
(15:23):
of who was it being the son of anyway, there's
there's there's actually confusion again something I'm not going to
go into in this in this episode, but there is
confusion about whose whose son gil Galad actually is right
where he comes where he comes in terms in terms
of the generations of an old or so anyway, so
(15:48):
we have the death of Angrod and ignore Bregelus, and
then hod Or the Golden Haired, who's another great man,
a great leader of the House of Men die, Yeah,
and then Finnrod rescued, is rescued by bara Here and
swears an oath of abiding friendship and aid. Bar Here
will come to learn more of and he is the
father of Baron, who is the namesake one of the
(16:10):
namesakes of the next chapter of Baron and Luthian. So
this will be something that recurs in that chapter, right,
something that comes back and is important in that chapter.
All right. Next we have Fingolfin. Well he gets a
little mad, He's.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, rightly.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
So I loved everything about this portion of the chapter. Yeah, yes,
I just like the description, the way it was written,
like everything. It was my favorite part.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, it's it's pretty cool. All right.
So well let's read it. Let's see, we've got again
several paragraphs on this one, so maybe we'll just go
back and forth on this one. I'll start off, well,
we want you want me to start off for you,
all right, Thus he came alone, Fingolfin. Thus Fingolfin came
alone to Ngband's gates, and he sounded his horn and
(17:04):
smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth
to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
That was the last time in those wars that he
passed the doors of his stronghold. And it is said
that he took not the challenge willingly, for though his
might was greatest of all things in this world alone
of the Valar, he knew fear. But he could not
now deny the challenge before the face of his captains,
for the rocks rang with the shrill music of Fngolfin's horn,
and his voice came keen and clear down into the
(17:33):
depths of Angband, and Fngolfin named Morgoth Craven, the lord
of slaves. Therefore Morgoth came, climbing slowly from his subterranean throne,
and the rumor of his feet was like thunder underground.
And he issued forth, clad in black armour, and he
stood before the king like a tower, iron crowned, and
his vast shield sable unblazoned, cast a shadow over him
(17:56):
like a storm cloud. But Fngolfin gleamed beneath them as
a star, for his mail was overlaid with silver, and
his blue shield was set with crystals, and he drew
his sword wringle that glittered like ice.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Then Morgoth hurled aloft Grond, the hammer of the underworld,
and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But
Fingolfin sprang aside and groaned rent a mighty pit in
the earth. When smoke and fire darted, many times morgoth
Is sayed to smite him, and each time Fingolfin leaped
away as a lightning shoots from under a dark cloud.
And he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds. And seven times
(18:32):
Morgoth gave a cry of anguish whereat the host of
Angband fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries
echoed in the northlands.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
But at the last the king grew weary, and Morgoth
bore down his shield upon him thrice he was crushed
to his knees, and Thrice arose again and bore up
his broken shield and stricken helm. But the earth was
all rent and pitted about him, and he stumbled and
fell backward before the feet of Morgoth. And Morgoth set
his foot upon his neck, and the weight of it
(19:01):
was like a fallen hill. Yet with his last and
desperate stroke, Fingolfin hewed the foot with wringle, and the
blood gushed forth, black and smoking, and filled the pits
of grand.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Thus died Fingolfin, high King of the noldor, most proud
and valiant of the Elvin kings of old. The Orcs
made no boast of that duel at the gate. Neither
do the elves sing of it, for their sorrow is
too deep. Yet the tale of it is remembered still,
for Throndor, king of Eagles, brought the tidings to Gondolein
and to hislam afar Off, and Morgoth took the body
of the Elvin king and broke it, and would cast
(19:35):
it to his wolves. But Thorndor came hasting from his
eyrie among the peaks of the Krysagrim, and he stooped
upon Morgoth and marred his face. The rushing of the
wings of Thorndor was like the noise of the winds
of Manway, and he seized the body in his mighty talons, and,
soaring suddenly above the darts of the Orcs, he bore
the king away, and he laid him upon a mountain
(19:56):
top that looked from the north upon the hidden valley
of Gondolen. Torgon coming built a high cairn over his father.
No Orc dared ever after to pass over the mount
of Fingolf and or draw nigh his tomb, until the
doom of Gondolin was come, and treachery was born among
his kin. More Goth went ever halt of one foot
after that day, and the pain of his wounds could
(20:16):
not be healed. And in his face was the scar
that thornd Or made. Yeah, so I just wanted to
show this image here. This is from This is by
mentasic eight on and I found this over on deviant Art.
Let me see if I can, Yeah, mentosic eight So
(20:38):
I will link to this image if you want to
go check it out for yourself. Very very cool image
that kind of just shows, you know, I just really
like this depiction, I guess. I will say notice that
in this depiction at least, and I don't think it
mentioned in the text whether whether Morgoth wore his iron
(20:59):
crown and with the three silver rules in it, but
we see the three silver mereles depicted within the iron
crown here. So I kind of find that. I wonder
if he did, if he was like, well, I don't
want to take the three Silver Rules with me because
then I might, you know, I might actually lose one
or something like that. Right, yeah, but he may have, right,
he may have so. But anyway, I just think this
(21:21):
is a great image that shows like, you know, because
you have to think, like, Okay, this is Fingolfin. I mean,
he's an elf, so he's you know, he's not small,
but he's going up against basically the greatest of the gods, right,
the most powerful of the gods. This is you know,
this is probably not going to end well for him,
and you know, I think he handles himself as well
as he possibly can, but at some point he's just
(21:45):
he's just fed off. It's kind of like a a
David and Goliath scene that ultimately goes the opposite way
you want it to go. So yeah, unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I wish this image only.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
My only wish with this image is that it would
it would make I love that description of a Fingolfin
shining like a star, like I think that's you know,
just that whole idea of the light, you know, the
light trying to overcome the darkness anyway.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I just that's my only thing I wish he was.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I wish fin Golfin was glowing a little bit.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I can see. I see what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
There, But I love like that's exactly how I pictured
more for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, all right, Well, a couple of notes on this battle. So,
so Fingolfin dies so high King of an Old or
so the the kingship of the Old or passes to
uh to his son fing Gone. At this point more
GoF while he defeats Fingolfin is nevertheless wounded. He's wounded.
First of all, it sounds like he's as I understand it,
(22:51):
he he fingolf and hwes off his foot right completely right,
So I guess he has to have like a you know,
a wooden leg or some like that. Like he's kind
of hobbling around like a pirate at that point. I'm
not sure, but but we do. We do see that.
And also he is wounded by thrond Or the Eagle
or the Throndor and and has a pretty bad wound
(23:14):
on his face. You know. One of the themes here
we find is that more goth in this this theme
gets repeated over the course of you know, over the
course really of the entire legendarium. But more Goth. You know,
we we think that we tend to think that evil
is you know, like too often we we think in
terms of good and evil being kind of dualistic, being
(23:37):
paired together. But the truth is that evil only has
so much to spend, right, only has so much energy
to spend. And it's a lot of energy. It can
seem like a whole lot of energy at times, but
there's only so much, only so much it can do.
Only the good is truly infinite, and and so with
more Goth. Though he is the most powerful of all creatures, right,
(24:00):
he is still a creature, and he's limited, He's finite.
His the whatever life and potency is in him is
is slowly diminishing. Right. He has put much of his
life and potency into creating evil works, right, his own
evil twisted subcreations. And he is at a point now
(24:21):
where he is you know, capable of being attacked by
you know, and done battle with by a single elf. Right,
he still beats the elf, but.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Not as you know, not as impressively as we may have.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Expected, exactly exactly so. Point another another thing that I
will say is Grand is the name of his hammer.
It's also the name of the battering ram used by
the forces of Mordor in the War of the Ring.
So when you hear the name grand and the War
of the Ring, when they're using the battering ram to
break down the door of Menas Tirith, it is supposed
(24:56):
to harken back to to the to mor Goth's hammer. Right,
So there you.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Go, nice little easter egg there, Johnny.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yep, all right. So with Fingolfin gone, we learned that
that's just another kind of blows with the Battle of
Sudden Flame, the death of Fingolfin and uh and now
we learn a little bit about what Souron is up
to in all of this. All right. So sourn is
of course Morgoth's chief lieutenant at this point. And Souron
(25:31):
leads an attack and drives our Adreath out of Menus
Tireth of toll Syrians. So mentioning again Menas Tireth, this
is not the same meaness Tiarth of Lord of the Rings.
This is the meanest Tiarth that that Meanus t Earth
is named after. Okay, so uh minus Tireth uh is
the I believe it stands I believe it means tower
(25:53):
of Watch. Mean double check that, because it was originally
the one and one Lord of the Rings. Was originally
named Minas Anor, which means the Tower of the Sun,
I believe. And then when Minasithel was taken over, no
longer the tower of the Moon, so they renamed it
the Tower of the Guard, I believe. Let's see Minus
Tireth tower of the Guard. Yes, and so what is
(26:15):
the guard? What is the guard that it is providing
right now? Well, we can maybe zoom in a little here,
all right, So here's toll Syrion, the island upon which
Minas Tirith is. We see that this very narrow pass right,
this veil of Syrion here. Okay, the forces of Morgoth
want to find a way around Dorthonian. Right, they're put
(26:38):
there kind of slowly pushing back the forces of Dorthonian
that reside here. But it's a very very slow battle, right,
it's a it's a war of attrition here, and they're
not making the gains that they want to make, so
they try to go over here. They find difficulty over there,
and Suron's like, okay, let me see if I can
if I can take you know this pass right here, okay,
(26:59):
and then if we can take this past, then we
can flood Bellerion with all of our forces. So toul
Syrian is the island in the middle of the Syrian
river here and then Minas Tiareth is. The tower is
the tower of guard that stands upon it. And Salon
succeeds in his attack, driving out Orodreth. So let's read
(27:20):
a description of what this tower becomes. But at length,
after the fall off Engulfin Suron, greatest and most terrible
of the servants of Morgoth, who in the Sindharan tongue
was named gore Thar, came against Orodreth, the warden of
the tower upon toul Syrian. Saluron was become now a
sorcerer of dreadful power, master of shadows and of phantoms
(27:41):
foul and wisdom, cruel in strength, misshaping what he touched,
twisting what he ruled, Lord of werewolves. His dominion was torment.
He took Minus Teareth by assault, for a dark cloud
of fear fell upon those that defended it, and Orodreth
was driven out and fled to Nargathrund. Then Saluron made
it into a watch tower for more, Goth a stronghold
(28:02):
of evil and a menace, and the fair Isle of
Toll Syrian became a cursed and it was called Toll
in Gawarath, the Isle of werewolves. No living creature could
pass through that veil. That Suron did not a spy
from the tower where he sat. Again, we're going to
revisit this place in the next chapter. Saluron will play
(28:22):
a significant role in that chapter in that story. So,
but it becomes this Isle of were wolves now, right,
so very unpleasant sounding place for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, So now Morgoth is able to send his forces
into the rest of Balerion. You know, there's been a
lot of fighting at this point, so they may not
be as strong as they initially were. And so there's that,
you know, we also have the fact that Dorioth, right,
the forces of Dorith, the forces of King Fingle have
not really been involved in any of this, and they
are protected still by the by the magic of Meleon, right,
(29:02):
she's able to put kind of a protecting boundary around
that region. And so it's not and there are you know,
the forces of the noldor did manage to kind of
fall back and regroup. So it's not like the forces
of more goth can just pour in. And that's a
very narrow pass there as well. Right, so you know
(29:23):
it's it's not it's not to the point yet where
it's complete desperation in bealariond is overrun, but it's not
looking good for the noldor either.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah. I was thinking as I was reading this chapter
that the people that enjoy like battle planning or like
strategicy when it comes to to fight, you know, if
you like to play like you know, war games or whatever,
they would really enjoy this chapter because it's there's a
lot of a lot of strategy, yeah, as you know,
(29:51):
and stuff discussed.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's it is interesting in that regard for sure.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And having that map really helps too, oh yeah, because
you can see how it all plays out.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
All right, well, next we jump ahead and we're going
to read about the coming of the Easterlings aka the
swarthy Men. The swarthy Men, All right, sway, men, Yes,
it is told. Actually, Greta, do you want to read this?
It is told it this time.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
It is told that at this time the swarthy Men
came first into Bleirond, some were already secretly under the
dominion of Morgoth, and came at his call, but not all,
for the rumor of bealeriond of its lands and waters,
of its wars and riches went now far and wide,
and the wandering feet of men were ever set westward
in those days. These men were short and broad, long
(30:39):
and strong in the arm. Their skins were swart or sallow,
and their hair was dark, as were their eyes. Their
houses were many, and some had greater liking for the
dwarves of the mountains than for the elves. But Mithros,
knowing the weakness of the Noldor and the Adyine, whereas
the pits of Angban seemed to hold store inexhaustible and
(30:59):
every nude, made alliance with these new come men, and
gave his friendship to the greatest of their chieftains, Bor
and Olphang, and more. Goth was well content, for this
was as he had designed. The sons of Bor of
Bor were Borlad, Borloch, and Borthond, and they followed Methros
and Maglore, and cheated the hope of Morgoth, and were faithful.
(31:22):
The sons of Olphang the Black were old Fast and Olworth,
and Oldor the accursed, and they followed Karantheor and swore
allegiance to him and proved faithless.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yes, so two groups of men uh really entered this
area in terms of being the Easterlings, where we already
have the Addigne. The three houses of the Adygne are
kind of well established at this point, several generations into uh,
you know, into their existence in belariond and more. Goth
kind of is hopeful that the coming of these easterlings
(31:56):
will mean good things for him. And one of these groups,
the the people of Olfong, those who follow Karan Theor
end up being bad. Of course, current Theor believe it's
uh Ku and k on Theor we're gonna find are
both pretty of all the sons of fan Or, they're
they're kind of the most rotten, so not too surprising.
(32:19):
And then we have Methros and Maglore and and those
the men who follow them, the easter things that follow
them are the sons of bor right, so, and they
prove faithful, they prove to be good men. Yeah, I
wanted to discuss real quickly a couple of the terms here.
So swarthy and sallow, right, these are both terms that
(32:41):
I certainly you know, don't use very often.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
You know, maybe we should.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Well, I mean, I don't know. I don't know, because
you know, people get kind of you know, you gotta
be careful about what things, how you describe, how you
describe certain uh, you know, using certain terms these days, right,
But let's look at what they actually mean. So this
is from vocabulary dot Com. Ill linked to both of
these in the show notes because swarthy it's an interesting word.
(33:07):
It's kind of an ambiguous meaning, but I thought this
was a good discussion of it. Swarthi means dark skinned.
If you like tall, dark and handsome men, you find
a swarthy complexion attractive. Not everyone with dark skin is swarthy.
The word is usually used to describe someone whose skin
is weather beaten and darkened by the sun, or has
an olive complexion. But the famous nineteenth century American poet
(33:31):
Walt Whitman, who was of English and Dutch stock, seemed
to be describing himself and his poem behold this swarthy face.
So swarthy may be in the eyes of the beholder.
In terms of just kind of a dictionary definition, it's
an adjective. Naturally having skin of a dark color. A
smile on his swarthy face and most of what I
(33:52):
can find seems to indicate that it is a it's
a relative term, right. It has to do with and
it often has to do with having spent like it's
not just a the the like the tone in terms
of like the color and pigmentation of the skin necessarily,
but it has to do with like kind of being
weather beaten to kind of you know, maybe the look
(34:14):
of having spent a lot of time in the sun.
I can think about like going to the beach and
seeing folks you know, you know, maybe who like live
at the beach and just spend a lot of time
outside and they've got they've got what I would maybe
after hearing this term called swarthy skin, right, Yeah, they
are naturally what you know, I think would be probably
classified as Caucasian if they lived in this country in
(34:36):
terms of having a quote unquote white skin, but they
have they've developed a swarthy complexion, right, a darker complexion
because of having spent a lot of time in the sun.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Right. Maybe even farmers, I feel like maybe farmers would
have kind of that swarthy look about them to you again,
just that idea of being in the sun and having
you know, making your living as in the outdoors, maybe
in construction worker, you know, like people that that spent
a lot of time outdoors.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
And it would seem to make sense if these you know,
people had been wandering wandering over you know, over a
long period of time until they wound up here in
Belleriand yeah, and if they came from maybe a more
southeastly region, it would make sense that they probably spent
a lot more time under the sun right under the
like kind of stronger rays of the sun, especially as
opposed to maybe the housands of the dine that perhaps
(35:27):
came from further north. Initially.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
It's interesting there's there's a did you see this? There's
some quotes from different works of literature here, Yeah, and
one is from the Two Towers. So it's used Tolkien
uses swarthy.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Again, it's also used in Jane or Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, it's it's not a very term people use much nowadays,
at least not in my experience, but it is a
you know, it has it does have a history going
back a long way. Yeah, all right. And then salow
what is sallow well means unhealthy in appearance, often yellow
in color, and is almost invariably used to describe someone's complexion.
(36:06):
His smile was as engaging as ever, but from his
sallow complexion, I knew he was sick. Usually we say
that when someone is sick they turn green. You could
also say their skin takes on a sallow look, and
you'd mean the same thing. Salow also describes the way
someone looks if they have lost blood or pale from fever.
The word comes from Germanic roots meaning dusky or dirty,
(36:29):
and it simply means unhealthy looking. Right, So you know,
it's interesting here, where does this come from? Try to
find the actual reference. Yeah, well it says they're swart,
swart and sallow.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Swart or sallow yeah, yeah, hmm.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Long and strong in the arm. Their skins were swart
or sallow. Yeah, there you go. So, so you know,
that's what we're talking about here. It's not uh, you know,
it would seem it would seem to indicate that these
terms have more to do not necessarily with kind of
a natural skin tone, but but kind of the relative
(37:13):
relative look in terms of I don't know, just like style, lifestyle,
like what what's gone? You know what their history you
know indicates, right, right, the history of their of their
living in this world.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Yeah, if you will, it makes sense to that they
would maybe be a little sallow if they've been wandering, right,
they're probably a little bit malnourished, and you know, like
had to like beys more physically active than maybe they
have the nutrients to uh to be absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
All right, Well, let's jump ahead a little bit and
discuss who are and who are in? So who are
on who Aoran are two of the adign To, two
sons of the Adigne. They are the sons of Galdor
of door Leman, and they it just so happens that
they are dwelling that they go to battle and they
(38:11):
in the midst of this battle, they get saved by
thord Or. Right, so Thorndo the Great Eagle again comes
to help, and thord Or is like, well, I guess
I'll take them to Gondolin. Right, So they become the
first men to visit Gondolin, and they spend a year
there and to Miglen's sugar in tour, Gon lets them leave,
(38:36):
right to Gon lets them leave. So let's read a
little bit about this. Let's start there.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
But Horren, who are desired to return to their own
people and share in the wars and griefs that now
beset them. And Hoorn said to Turgon, Lord, we are
but mortal men, and unlike the elder, they may endure
for long years, awaiting battle with their enemies in some
far distant day. But for us the time is short,
and our hope and strength soon wither. Moreover, we did
(39:03):
not find the road to Gondolin, and indeed we do
not know surely where this city stands, for we were
brought in fear and wonder by the high ways of
the air, and in mercy our eyes were veiled. Then
Turgon granted his prayer, and he said, by the way
that you came, you have.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Leave to depart.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
And if Throndor is willing, I grieve at his parting.
Yet in a little while, as the eld our accountant,
we may meet again.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
But Miglen, the King's sister son, who was mighty in Gondolin,
grieved not at all at their going, though he begrudged
them the favor of the king, for he had no
love for any of the kindred of men. And he
said to Horan, the King's grace is greater than you know,
and the law has become less stern than aforetime or else,
no choice would be given you but to abide here
to your life's end.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Then Horn answered him, the King's grace is great, indeed,
but if our word is not enough, then we will
swear oaths to you. And the brothers swore never to
reveal the councils of Turgon, and to keep secret all
that they had seen in his realm. And they took
their leave, and the eagles coming bore them away by
night and set them down in door lo Min before
the dawn. Their kinsfolk rejoiced to see them, for messengers
(40:09):
from Breathdille had reported that they were lost, But they
would not declare even to their father where they had been.
Say that they were rescued in the wilderness by the
eagles that brought them home. But Galdoor said, did you
then dwell a year in the wild or did the
eagles house you in their eyries? But you found food
and fine arraignment, and return as young princes, not as
(40:30):
waifs of the wood. And Huoran answered, be content that
we have returned, for only under an oath of silence
was this permitted. Then Galdoor questioned them no more, but
he and many others guests at the truth, and in
time the strange fortune of Huoran and Hua reached the
ears of the servants of Morgoth.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yeah, so why are they able to leave where? Well,
first of all, they don't know because they were brought
there by thorn door, and they don't know the way
to Gondolin, right, other than an eagle picking you up
and bringing you there, which has control over that, right.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
And plus is that their eyes were veiled, right, so
even if they they wanted to figure it out, they
couldn't have That's right, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Right, modern ancient equivalent of throwing you in the trunk
and on the way to the secret hideout exactly, all right,
So I prefer the ancient way flying on ye yes, yes, yes, yeah.
So they get there and they spend a year, they
learn a lot from tor Gone and uh, and then
(41:31):
tor Gone lets them leave and go home. Mike Glenn
is kind of like, well, I don't like them, so
I'm glad they're leaving. But at the same time, it's
like not really fair that they get to leave, right?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
There? Is there more to that, do you think?
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Like?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Why is he so upset about that?
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Is it just because it's unfair and and he is
it does it have anything? I guess what I'm asking
is this, do you think has any route in like,
like it must write the tragedy that befell him and
his mother and his father right because his father wasn't
allowed to leave.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I mean, I'm sure there's It's weird because I don't
think my Michaelin really cared much for his father. Yeah,
I don't know that he wanted to leave. Yeah, but
I think Michaelin is one of these individuals who is
probably gonna find fault with just about anything.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
That's probably true. Yeah, yeah, it's fair.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
I think he's he's always going to be looking for,
like to to bring fault upon those who he can,
especially those he considers his potential rivals is less than him.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah, he's not always going to be up in your
face about it, but he's going to find those things.
He's gonna he's he's just he's just the type of person.
There are people out there like this way too many. Actually,
they just they just want to probe everything until they
find they find your weakness, and that's like that's what
they exist to do. They're just like they just they
it's like they can't help it. They're just like I
want to find I'm going to find your weakness. I'm
gonna act like I you know, I'm just like concerned,
(42:55):
you know, person and just want to know. But I'm
always trying to find your weakness. And when I find
your weakness, I'm going to exploit it. Right. I just
gotta watch out for those people, right I can. I'm
usually pretty good at picking up on people like that,
but I think you are. You're actually pretty good at
that too. You nor really just say somebody like that
gives you the creeps, And I'm like, okay, I understand why.
(43:16):
But you know, I don't read this as anymore than
just Michelenn saying, you know, just trying to find just
looking to find fault.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Yeah, just looking, yeah, for reasons to be unhappy and
to be at odds with others.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah. Well, and he has his own you know, he's
always scheming.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Right right, He has his own alternaymotives for sure.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
You know, he wants that throne. He wants the throne
of Gondolin ultimately from himself. Yeah. So so who are
and and who are? We're gonna learn a lot more
about them and their offspring, and the covering chapters as well.
So see all how this is setting the stage for
these stories that follow, right, who are in Of course,
we'll be in the chapter the mainart. He'll show up
(44:00):
in other chapters as well, but the main chapter that
will be of his folks on his son, the story
of his son of Tour and Tour and bar and
then who or will be the chapter of concerned Tour
in the Fall of Gondolin. Right, Tour is his son,
all right? And finally Morgoth renews his assault. Right, so,
the Els had regrouped and started to actually retake some
(44:22):
of Morgth's gains back from him, and mor Goth's like,
I can't have that. So morgothrinews his assault seven years
after the beginning of the Battle of Sudden Flame. And
here's how that goes. When seven years had passed since
the fourth battle, Morgoth renewed his assault, and he sent
a great force against Hlam. The attack on the passes
of the Shadowy Mountains was bitter. Pull up my map here.
(44:46):
And in the siege of Aithel, Syrian Galdor, the tall
Lord of dor Lomen, was slain by an arrow that
fortress he held on behalf of finger On the high King.
And in that same place his father, Hador Lorindl died
but a little time before who Are, and his son
was then newly come to manhood. But he was great
in strength, both of mind and body, and he drove
the Orcs with heavy slaughter from arid Wetherrn, and pursued
(45:07):
them far across the sands of Anfalgleth.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
But King Fingon was hard put to it to hold
back the army of Enband that came down from the north,
and battle was joined upon the very plains of Hythlam.
There Fingon was outnumbered, but the ships of Kirdan sailed
in great strength up up the Firth of Drinks, and
in the hour of need, the elves of the Phalas
came upon the host of Morgoth from the west. Then
(45:32):
the Orcs broke and fled, and the Eldar had the victory,
and their horsed archers pursued them even into the Iron mountains.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Therefore Hooran, son of Galdor, ruled the house of Hador
and door Loomen, and served Fingon. Houran was of less
stature than his father's or his son after him, but
he was tireless and enduring in body, lithe and swift,
after the manner of his mother's kin, Hareth of the Haladin.
His wife was Morwen Elithwyn, daughter of Baragund of the
(46:01):
house of Bayor, She who fled from Dorthonian with Rhon,
daughter of Belgund, and Emilder, the mother of Baron.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
In that time also the outlaws of Dorthonian were destroyed,
as is told hereafter, and Baron, son of Bara here alone,
escaping came hardly, came hardly into Doriath.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, so that would be the end of this chapter.
So quick note, so what was this? So so the
assault was renewed upon Hithlam right this region to the
west of the anfhagleth the Ethel Syrian here is this
is this tower right at the at the root or
at the what do I don't know what you call
the beginning of the river? I forget, but here at
(46:44):
the beginning of the river, and it's kind of the mount. No,
the mouth is the end right, So the mouth is
down here a Syrian. So we have the Eithel Syrian
here and there is a battle there, because it would
seem this is one of the main passes to get
into the region of Hitlam, right, and uh, you know,
(47:04):
the people of Fifthlam do a fairly decent job of
holding back More Goth's assault.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
So I feel like it ends on a fairly hopeful
note given all the death instruction that preceded it, Like, well,
maybe there's hope after all.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Well, they are fighting the long defeat, right, they're fighting
the long defeat, So there are little little ballots of hope,
and the next chapter is going to be one of those,
you know, points of hope, right, points of hope, so
for sure, but don't worry. A lot more tragedy and
bloodshed yet to come.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Just for balance, you know, you got to keep it
all balanced.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
All right, So let's do any more thoughts on this
chapter better before we do Haku, All right, let's do
Somet's rock papers scissors, shoot boom man. All right, you
go first, I go first.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
I More Goth Lord of Slaves comes forth, a fearful victor,
but with.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
One less foot. Yeah, I am nice.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
I like, I think the Lord of Slaves was a
good insult from.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah, I think that's probably what put more Goth over
the edge.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
I feel like that was like he was already bad,
and then that was just like the final straw.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
But wouldn't he want to be lord of slaves when
he'd be like, yeah, I am lord of slaves. They've
got so many slaves, right, and they all gotta do
what I say or I'm gonna whoop them. Right.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Yeah, maybe that's probably true. Evil people, he would take
that as a compliment. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I don't
know though, probably Anyway, what I was gonna say was
I found it very interesting that that in that that
part it mentioned that more Goth alone, that more Goth
(48:57):
was the only valor who knew fear.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, I found that very is I do remember that. Yeah,
that's a really a really good point. It's like he
knows at this point that even though he wins, he's
you know, he's winning these things, his days are actually
you know, his days are actually numbered.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
And I think it goes back to what you were
saying about evil, right, like evil has an end point.
There's only so much to go around, and he probably
knows that he is he's waning because of that.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
So yeah, no, that's good. I'm glad you. I'm glad
you highlighted that that's something we didn't mention in her
discussion of the chapter, and that that was a that's
a stark little note that stood out.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah, there's also I was thinking too that Olma was
mentioned this chapter, which I thought was it was cool.
I love it when the valor, the good Valor mentioned.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Well, I feel like Olmo is the one who's just
like he's always somewhere, you know, he's not far from
the people of the right because he is the lord
of water. Yeah, you know, his his dominion exists throughout
all of Middle Earth, right, whereas in the middle of
the ocean, right, not all the you know. I mean,
I guess you can make the case that Manway is there,
(50:12):
but a lay would not seem to be. And I
feel like more goth Is is a war, particularly with
al right, because more goth is always like in the earth,
like wanting to make his own like weird creations and everything.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yeah, and he's like making holes in the earth and
everything like that, like just drawing it.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
It also mentioned the Manway in this chapter mentioned that
the eagles wings like the the wind produced by the
eagles wings was like the winds of Mandwe.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely so. So Manway and Olmo feel
like they are the ever present Valar, right, they always
have some they always have their eye. They always are
aware of what's going on everywhere in Middle Earth, whereas
Aulay maybe and maybe it's because it's for that very
reason that moreg is like especially intruding upon Aulay's dominion, right, yeah, yeah,
(51:06):
you know, just even in the just even like think
about how aul mor Goth you know, creates orcs, right
and all these other you know, kind of creatures that
are sort of mockeries of the children of a Loubatar,
and just like Oula created the dwarves, but you know,
was because he submitted them to a Loubatar, they were
(51:27):
given a special kind of a special grace of life,
you know, of their own, right.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
It also just occurred to me too that and when
Bengolfin was riding to meet to assault more Goth, it
compared him to was that os that's no or that's
right Orme, and I was I thought that was that
was cool too. It's almost like a you know, a
battle of the Valar. Obviously, be Golfing is not a outlar,
(51:57):
but he appeared as one in that moment. Just because
of how he was, you know, swiftly moving toward Moroth
and maybe he maybe he was even glowing at that
point too, perhaps me perhaps, Yeah, plus he was ducked
out and lots of really cool like myth rollin like
(52:17):
blue gemmed studded shield.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Anyway, all right, right on good thoughts. All right, here's
my hoku foes Fury of Flame. Let's fly the Fierce
and the fell fingolfin Fallen.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
That's really good. Lots of f's, lots of f's.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
Yes, very nice alliteration there, thank you, very good.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Yeah, that was good.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
All right. We have one from rid Hawk as well.
Oh nice eagles save Great men Oran and whore of
them first in Gondolin.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
Oh it kind of rhymes too. Yeah, that's cool. I
like that, very cool, very good, thanks very hawk, Yes,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
All right. Well I think that's about it for this episode. Hey, subscribe,
rate and review us on iTunes or the platform of
your choice. What are you waiting for? By the way, oh,
we got a let me pull this up, quid. We
do have another one.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Oh a five star review.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
Five star that you need to read this let's see.
You got to put this down in my notes. But
just occurred to me.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
No, I'm glad you remembered. I love five star reviews.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
Well don't we all?
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Mm hmm, we do. It's true. I'm not alone in that.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
A lot better those one star review that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Always, I mean, five stars are always better than one
star regardless.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
Great show from windsor Pulsar on June thirteenth, Great show,
five stars, a wealth of knowledge. Thank you, Oh.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
Yes, thank you, thank you so much, short, sweeting to
the point.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
That's right, I like it. That's right, well done. All right.
If you're a five star fan of the tolkn Road,
you can really help us out by heading over to
iTunes or your preferred source for the show and dropping
us a rating and review. When you do that, it
helps get the word out about the Tolkien Road, which
helps us to keep on everring on. Puts a smile
on Greta's face. That's the most important thing, all right.
All right, Hey, hey, drop us a line anywhere you
(54:16):
can find us, and we will do our best to
correspond with you. Easiest places these days are usually YouTube
or Twitter or uh you can email us and I'll
do my best to get back to you. But sometimes
it takes me a little longer, all right. Thank you
are amazing patron, especially the following John R.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
Caitlin of t with Tolkien.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
Jacob Lockham, John H. Scotch You, Bobo Mis Anonymous, Andrew T.
Red Hawk, Shannon S.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
Ryano, Emilio p Zeke F, James A, James L, Chris L,
Chuck f ijv Ish.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Of The Hammer, Teresa C.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
David of Pines with Jack, Jonathan D, Eric S, Eric B,
Johanna T, Mike M, Robert H. Paul D, Julia and Werti,
Matthew W.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Keeps Going, Joe Bagelman.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
Chris K.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Jacobs and Don Jay, as well as those celebrating their
patron anniversary this month June of twenty twenty two. Teresa C.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
And James L.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yes, thank you guys, and thanks.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
To everybody for watching and listening. We will talk at
you next time.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
Bye y'all, bye,
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