Silmarillion 2025 » Ch 19 » Of Beren and Lúthien - The Tolkien Road

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey there, fellow travelers. Our twenty twenty five silver Merillion
journey continues with chapter nineteen of Quintus Silmarillion of Baron
and Luthian. In my view of Baron and Luthian as
the crown jewel of the Selmrillion. I love it so
much I wrote a book about it. It was one
of Tolkien's favorites too, and it's one of the longest
chapters in the Silmarillion. It picks up where the last
chapter left off in the aftermath of the Battle of

(00:22):
Sudden Flame. Over the next several months, will continue revisiting
the entire thirty episode Silm Million series that Greta and
I recorded back in twenty twenty two. While you're listening,
check out selm Guide dot com. That's Silmguide dot com
for guides to individual chapters. You can find that link
in the show notes. To support our work here, please
visit Patreon dot com slash Tolkien Road Enjoy. Hey there,

(00:46):
fellow travelers, Welcome to the Tolkien Road. Episode two ninety eight. Greta, Hey, Hello, Hello,
what's up?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well, not much. I was kind of shocked to learn
that we're closing in on three hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, closing in on three hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
No idea, we're that close. It's wild, super exciting. How
are you doing the.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Big three double O as they say?

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yep, anyway, how are you?

Speaker 1 (01:16):
I'm good. I just uh man, it's it's dry around here.
We need some rain.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
I just noticed my flowers are very sad. I'm gonna
have to water them when we are finished here.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah. Grasses, uh grass is looking pretty.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Awful, really like brown and prickly. Yeah good.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, Well, I don't think they're I think they're probably
gonna put the old uh kibash on the on the
fireworks for Fourth of July around here, you know, don't
want things to catch on fire.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I hadn't even thought of that. Oh, unless we get
some heavy rain in the next couple of days.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well, they keep on saying it might happen, so I'm hoping,
you know, maybe we'll get some rain here in the
next couple of days. All right, well, enough of that banter.
In this episode, we will be just us in chapter
nineteen of the Silmarillion of Baron and Luthian. Yes, this
is is something to get excited about. This is h
We're going to talk about all of the reasons why

(02:13):
those of you who have read it know why those
of you who have not, you're in for a treat
so very much.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
So, yes, and I'm super impressed that we're going to
try to knock this out in one episode.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah. Well, I think it took us like two or
three the first time we did.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, you know, yeah, so, because we're going to keep
a kind of high level.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
But well and I you know, this is supposed to
not be you know, like the goal here is to
just give people an introduction and kind of like help
them through some of the finer points. Remember, now there's
some there is a book of Baron and Luthian that
exists that we didn't have when we first did this, right,

(02:54):
So eventually we will do that whole book on here,
you know, on here, and we'll go much more into
this story, and you know, spend several episodes on this,
on this particular story, all of its permutations. There is
in fact an epic poem of this that Tolkien never completed,
but it is still quite epic, called the Lay of Lithian.

(03:18):
And so at some point I would love to spend
some time doing that, because there is some poetry in
this chapter, some excerpts from that, and they're you know,
they're wonderful.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
So quick question, the book Baron and Luthian, it's still
the same story that we have in the Sulmarillion, or.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
No, well so the book or Baron, in the book
Baron and Luthian that came out a few years ago.
It's it's kind of like if you devoted a volume
of the History of Middle Earth, remember that, you know,
the History of Middler series, if you devoted a volume
just to the story of Baron and Luthian. So it's
like kind of like it kind of like, here's different

(04:02):
versions of this story and how it evolved over time.
I've never read the whole thing. I have not read
the whole thing yet. I've just kind of like looked
through it, skims read some interesting parts, but it's you know,
it's on my list of things to do. I wanted
to redo this silm Marillion read through, which we are
you know, we've only got like seven or eight more
episodes to go on this thing, and then beyond that,

(04:22):
you know, we've we we are going to there's so
much more still to cover. I mean, there's just so
much more and so much good stuff. So anyway, like,
you know, we'll get there. And there's a lot more
that could be said about this, but this, this version
of the story right here, I wrote on my Twitter
on our twitter feed for the Tolkien Road a couple
of days ago, I wrote the following, let's see if

(04:47):
I can find it, and now it is my pen
to tweet over there, here we go. If you've ever
struggled to read the Silm Mirillion, start with chapter nineteen
of Baron and Luthian. It is one of the most
important Middle or legends and it works by itself. It's
Tolkien's genius and heart and a one hour read. You'll
thirst for more once you've read it. And lots of

(05:08):
people were like, yep, what you know this? You know
start here right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
So it's also a beautiful picture.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah yeah, it's a great image. You can go my
Twitter feed and see it. But it's the image is
by an artist who goes by Pete and it's wait
for me, beyond the Western Sea.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
So oh, I'm like on the verge of tears. Yeah yeah,
right now, So just consider yourselves warned.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Man, we haven't gotten through the We're still on there,
like barely into the intro. All right, well let's let's
let's cover the introductory matter here and then we'll dive
into all the details as many as we can get to.
So before we get started, we'd like to have a
double up AERI five to our patrons, get those hands up,
three two one no special thanks to this episode's executive producers,

(05:58):
John R. Caitlin of t with told, Jacob Lockham, John
H and Scotch You Bobo and yeah, thank you all
so much. And you know, thanks to all our patrons absolutely,
thanks so especially to all those who have been with
us for a long time.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Really appreciate it, absolutely we do.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
All right, Become a patron by visiting Patreon dot com
slash Tolkien Road doing so get you cool perks like
twenty percent off of everything at truemithspress dot com. Plus
your financial support helps the Tolkien Road to keep on
everring on. Learn more at Patreon dot com slash Tolkien
Road YouTube. Hit that like button, don't forget to subscribe,
and let us know what's on your mind in the
comments below. All right, so, hey, I mentioned the True

(06:36):
Myths Press dot com there, and you know we've had
my signed books for sale for a little while over there,
both my books you can get them over there signed.
And then we've got the Tolkien Road T shirt, which
I'm you're wearing right now.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, I'll stand up a little bit and let.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Folks see that.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, ye yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yep. So that have some ideas for some more T
shirts that'll be doing. But we just launched another product
over there, and it is the Two Trees camper mug,
the Two Trees camper mug. So there you go, drinking
out of it right now. I think we may have
given a snak preview of this on a previous.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Episode here, I think maybe on live stream.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
So those are the two Trees as depicted on the
cover of Tolkien's Requiem, my book about Baron and Luthian
right here. And then it's cool. This mug is great,
all right. So it's got on the other side, it's
got this quote that I'm about to read from from
Lord of the Rings. That's about that's that's Outergorn or
Strider talking about talking about the story of Baron and Luthian, right,

(07:38):
which is kind of cool on a metal level. But
if you read the if you read Tolkien's Requiem, you'll
understand more clearly why I tie Baron and Luthian to
the image of the two trees right here, just really
really fascinating like symbolism and everything going on there. So,
you know, in honor of launching this newest product, act

(08:00):
over at true misspress dot com, you can get your
two Trees camper mug for fifteen percent off for the
month of July when you use the code strider. All right,
So use the code strider if you say fifteen percent
on this bad boy right here. By the way, if
you're a patron, you get an even better discount. So
for patrons out there, don't forget. You have a you
have a twenty percent off code that you can use,

(08:22):
and if you need that, let me know, hit me up,
hit me up on the patron side. So I'm just
telling you, if you think about getting the two Trees
camper mug, you might think about becoming a patron and
then getting the two Trees camper mug right with your
patron code, so multiplying the you know, and then you
could go like, buy my books for twenty percent off.
You can get yourself a T shirt for twenty percent off. Right,
it's a you know, it's it's a nice.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Deal gift that keeps giving.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
It is, it's the gift keeps giving. So but I
I just love this thing. I love I love it
because you know, like when when they when Strider tells
the Hobbits about the Tale of Tanuviel, they're like out
in the wilderness, right, They're out in the wilderness, And
so I love the idea of like a camper mug,
you know, and this is like, so this is like

(09:06):
an This isn't like a normal coffee mug. This is
like kind of metallic. I guess it's metallic. And it's
enamels what they say. But it's like, I guess that's
metallic because it feels metallic.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
It's great for really clumsy people like me too, because
if you drop it, it won't break.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah. Yeah, so the credit guarantee right there.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
It's great to prove.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
And water just tastes especially delicious coming out of it.
So yeah, all right, so yeah, go check that out
truemanspress dot com. Hey, and make sure to pay attention
to the links whether you're listening or or watching this episode.
Lots of good stuff there. I always try to put
some good stuff in there. But including ways to listen

(09:49):
to both of my books for free. Right, you can
listen to both Tolkien's Requim and Tolkien's Overture for free
over on you know, over on YouTube. You can get
them on Audible using one of your credits over there,
I've linked to where it's actually you know, you know it.
Either one is a great way to go. The Audible

(10:09):
way is obviously commercial free, so that's cool, and you
know you can you can enjoy those. So last thing
I'll say, last thing I'll say about these books for now,
I am actually for only this This code will be good.
I plan to just kind of leave it on for
a while, but only those who have listened to this

(10:31):
episode will know about this code. All right, So I
have created the discount code Fenrod Fenrod for true mispress
dot com and you can get either book or both
books for twenty five percent off if you use the
code Fenrod. So signed copies of both of these right,
both of them. Both of them are relevant. This one

(10:54):
especially is directly relevant to this story. This one has
a whole chapter devoted to devoted to this Baron and
Luthian and the role that music plays in that story.
So anyway, you will like both books. My one thing
is please do get this, but promise me that you
will read Baron and Luthian chapter nineteen of The Summer

(11:15):
Million before you read, before you read the story, or
at least try to, because my goal I always want
people to read try to read Tolkien first before you know,
they read something I've written. So anyway, all right, that's
a lot, but I you know, exciding stuff, So I
want to go and share with you. Yeah, this was
gonna be I think it's gonna be a little bit
of a longer episode, but I'm going to try not

(11:36):
to make it like a three hour episode, but you know,
maybe closer to an hour and a half. So buckle in, everybody,
get comfy, all right. So the quote of the week,
so changing it up a little bit. As I mentioned before,
this story is referred to in Lord of the Rings
by Stryder. So I wanted to start with that, right,

(12:00):
I wanted to start. And it's going to be a
little longer because I want to read the whole poem
as he recounts it there. It's not a super long poem,
but it's you know, it's a little bit longer than
what our normal quote of the week are. But remember
what I'm about to read is kind of summarized here
on my two trees Camper mug. Right, so get yourself
two trees Camper mug and then read Baron and Luthian,

(12:24):
and you will just have the full kind of effect
going on, you know. All right, here we go. Then
tell us some of some tale. This is from Lord
of the Rings, chapter book one, chapter eleven, Knife in
the Dark. Then tell us some other tale of the
old days, begs Sam, a tale about the elves before
the fading time. I would dearly like to hear more

(12:46):
about elves. The dark seems to press rounds so close.
I will tell you the tale of Tanuvil, said Strider,
and brief, for it is a long tale of which
the end is not known, and there are none now
except l Rond that remember it aright, as it was
told of old Sorry, I'm getting over cold, everybody. Gretta,

(13:10):
you made you to jump in at some point.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Like now, go ahead. Yeah, it is a fair tale,
though it is sad, as are all the tales of
Middle Earth, and yet it may lift up your hearts.
He was silent for some time, and then he began
not to speak, but to chant softly.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
So you want to switch off, we can kind of
switch off on these standas. All right. I wish I
had a melody because I would really love to chant this.
I started. I was going through it this morning. I
was kind of chanting it. I was like, how would
you have chanted this? And I know some Gregorian chants,
so but you know, I don't know that it would
have been necessarily Gregorian chant. But anyway, so all right,

(13:50):
I'll start. The leaves were long, the grass was green,
the hemlock umbels tall and fair, and in the glade
a light was seen of stars and shadows shimmering. Tanuviel
was dancing there to music of a pipe unseen, and
light of stars was in her hair and inner raiment
glimmering there.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Barren came from mountains, cold and lost. He wandered under
leaves and where the Elven river rolled. He walked alone
and sorrowing. He peered between the hemlock leaves and saw
and wonder flowers of gold upon her mantle and her sleeves,
and her hair like shadow.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Following enchantment healed his weary feet that over hills were
doomed to roam, and forth he hastened, strong in fleet
and grasp at moonbeams glistening through woven woods and elvin home.
She lightly fled on dancing feet, and left him lonely
still to roam in the silent forest, listening.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
He heard thereof the flying sound of feet as light
as linden leaves, or music welling underground in hidden hollows quavering.
Now whither lay the hemlock sheaves, and one by one,
with sighing sound whispering fell the beech and leaves, and
the wintry woodland wavering.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
He sought her, ever, wandering far, where leaves of years
were thickly strewn by light of moon and ray of star,
and frosty heavens. Shivering. Her mantle glinted in the moon
as on a hilltop. High and far she danced, and
at her feet were strewn a mist of silver, quivering.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
When winter passed she came again, and her song released
the sudden spring, like rising lark and falling rain and
melting water bubbling. He saw the elven flowers sprang about
her feet, and healed again. He longed by her to
dance and sing upon the grass.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Untroubling again, she fled, but swift he came Tanuviel, Tanuviel,
he called her by her Elvish name, and there she halted, listening.
One moment stood she and a spell his voice laid
on her. Barren came and doom fell on to Nuviel
that in his arms lake listening.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
As Baron looked into her eyes, within the shadows of
her hair, the trembling starlight of the skies, he saw
their mirrored shimmering to Nuvel, the Elvin Fair, immortal maiden,
Elvin wise about him, cast her shadowy hair and arms
like silver, glimmering.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Long was the way that fate them bore or stony mountains,
cold and gray, through hills of iron and darkling door
and woods of night shade, moral less, the thundering seas
between them lay, And yet at last they met once more,
and long ago they passed away in the forest, singing sorrowless. Yeah, so,

(16:42):
little Strider's little summary of the story, and it's you know,
it's worth noting here that Strider is a descendant of
Baron and Luthian. He is a descendant of Baron and
Luthian because he is a descendant of el Ros, the
first king of numenor uh and and of course l

(17:04):
Ros is descended from uh is descended from l who
is who is the belief grandchild a grandchild or a
great grandchild of Baron and Luthian. So yeah, let me
make sure I got that right now. I always question
that because I always get confused by the uh the

(17:29):
because l Wing is also you know, the mother, the
mother of l Ros and l Rond. It's like they're
both they're both descended. But let's see or if I
can find a a good image of that.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Might be in the in the summerland itself.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
That no, I know, I know it is. I'm trying to. Yeah,
I'm trying to. Yeah, give me one moment.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think you should just go with your gap.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
I do, No, I I have to get it right here.
So here we go, all right, Baron Dior And then yes,
that's okay. So yeah, it's l Wing who's actually descended
from from Baron and Luthian. And she was you know,
she was the mother of l Rond and Elros, right,

(18:20):
so it's actually on his on his mother's side, so
not dl is the son of Tuor and Idro. Right,
And we'll learn more about them and when we learn
about the story of the fall of Gondolin.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
So good thing you checked.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
It is a good thing I checked, all right, all right,
So I just I love that passage. It's such a
It's one of those passages that just makes Lord of
the Rings utterly unique. You know, a lot of a
lot of storytellers wouldn't take the time to show, like

(18:57):
to show that scene and to be like, here's this poem.
Here's an excerpt from this poem that I've written elsewhere,
and I'm just going to put it in here. But
it's one of those things that increases the very similitude
of the story, right, and it gives this backdrop, right,
just this ancient story. Like, so imagine having read Lord
of the Rings and back when it first came out

(19:18):
in the fifties, and like, Baron Luthian was not even
like the film Million was not a thing, was not
a published thing. Baron Luthian was not a published thing,
and all you had were these stories, and you're just like, like,
where did he come up? Like you know, he did.
He created all these other stories so he could tell
this one story, you know, And that's kind of like
that's kind of the thing of it. But I also

(19:38):
love it because the story is truly one of Tolkien's
most I think it's one of the greatest examples of
like the Tolkienyan thing, like the way he imbused these
stories with such incredible darkness, leading to a hope that
transcends this world. Right, I hope that transcends this world.

(20:03):
And that's exactly why he tells it to Sam. Right,
that's exactly why he tells it to the Hobbits. Remember,
I believe in this. In this scene, Frodo has been
has been stabbed, Right, I believe in this In this scene,
Frodo has uh, you know, has has been stabbed. At
this point. It's either this scene or shortly thereafter that

(20:25):
he does get stabbed. And so they're, you know, they're
really in peril at this point, and so Strider tells
the story in order to bring in order to bring
some comfort to them, right, to lift up their hearts,
he says. And for me, the story is just one
that lifts up my heart. Right, it lifts up my
heart every time I read it, and it's one to

(20:45):
come back to, uh, you know, to to find hope
that transcends this world for sure, all right, So let's
dive in, all right, chapter nineteen. So Chapter nineteen is
the story of Baron and luthian Ak, the Tale of
Tanuviel aka the Lay of Lithian aka one of the
great Tales of the First Age aka the Seed of

(21:07):
Middle Earth. Simply put, this is one of Tolkien's greatest stories,
a story that in many ways informs the entirety of
the Middle Earth legendarium. All right, So this story, it's
not the very beginning of Middle Earth, but in a
way it's the beginning of the stories of Middle Earth. Right.
All of the stories that come after it kind of
branch branch out from it, touch it somehow, and it

(21:30):
touches into those stories somehow, as we've seen here with
the Lord of the Rings. It touches into the Hobbit
because l Rond is descended from these two figures, right.
It touches all the other stories in the Selmer Million, obviously,
it touches the entirety of neumanor the history of New Minor, right,

(21:50):
just you know, all these different stories, and it brings together,
like a lot of the threads that have been happening
so far in the Selmrillion right kind they converge in
this story. It's also one of the first big interactions
are a big I guess scenes where we really get

(22:13):
a picture of what Suron was like, right like why
sou Like in Lord of the Rings, Suron kind of
stands in the background. Is the bad guys, This is
this potential of what might happen, right because he's he's
never he himself is never fully actualized right in the
in the Lord of the Rings, however, he's sort of

(22:37):
this will that stands in the backgrounds this potential to
do more. Right, we get a full picture of him
in operation directly in this story, and we see just
you know how evil he truly is, right yep? So
all right, hey, just again, you should read this story
before you listen to this episode. As with each episode,

(22:57):
we won't be covering every detail of this chapter, but
in doing our best to fit the high hit the
high points, and unpack interesting and important details. This is
a long chapter. It's especially true here. We're not going
to hit all the details. We're going to skip over
certain parts because Tolkien was okay with a bridging things.
Just don't deviate, just don't change what's actually there, it's
okay to a bridge, it's not okay to change it.

(23:19):
Looking at you.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Amazon, I think that is an important distinction, though.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Absolutely, it's an important distinction. It's a very important distinction
when it comes to the stories of Tolkien. And all
you need to do there is just read his own
philosophy on fantasy. It's founded on fairy stories, his remarks
on it, adapting his works to the screen as found
in his letters, and you'll understand that he really hates
it when people change his stories, when people turn Ratigas

(23:49):
into an eagle, right, Radagas the Wizard into an eagle
for what reason? You know? Those little notes? Not a fan,
He's okay with a bridging. He's like, you don't have
to tell the whole thing, but but don't change right,
don't change my stories? All right? So this takes place
in the years according to our war The Jewel's History
of Middle Earth, Volume eleven takes place from the years

(24:11):
of the Sun four sixty to four sixty eight, So
eight years.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, okay, I don't realize it spanned that much time.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Well, you think about it, and he's in the wilderness
for four years.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well that's true. That is true.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
He's in the wilderness for four years at the beginning
of the story. Yeah, and he then spends time some
time in certain and certain other places, and then of
course it ends at the very end. There's a certain
amount of time that's not entirely clear from the text,
but you know he's where he's Well, we'll get there,
we'll get there anyway. It makes sense when you think

(24:45):
about it. Yeah, all right, let's read this opening paragraph here.
Set the stage, all right, gre do you want.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
To read that Among the tales of sorrow and of
ruin that come down to us from the darkness of
those days, there are yet some in which, amid weeping
there is joy, and under the shadow of death light
that endoors. And of these histories, most fair still in
the ears of the elves, is the tale of barn
and Luthian, of their lives was made the lay of

(25:18):
Lithian released from bondage, which is the longest save one
of the songs concerning the world of old. But here
the tale is told in fewer words and without song.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah. So you know, this is picking up where the
last chapter left off. After the Battle of Sudden Flame.
Lots of the forces of Morgoth after the Long Siege
of Angban have broken out. They've done some serious damage
to they haven't completely overrun Balarion, but they've done some

(25:51):
serious damage, especially in the northern part of Bellerion, taken
a lot of areas, and they've they did a lot
of damage to the forces that were that were there
to keep them at bay. And and then you know,
this story, it's it's it's really important that we understand
that it's a it is one of these handful of
great tales from the First Age. Tolkien created these tales

(26:15):
and then kind of constructed the rest of the details
around them for the you know when it comes to
the First Age.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
So it's foundational in a way.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Tolkien himself has said that this
goes back to like then, like nineteen sixteen, nineteen seventeen,
when he was you know, in World War One and
he was home and it was actually seeing Edith dance

(26:44):
right in Hemlock Glade. He actually has that image and
that was the image that like kind of inspired Luthian dancing. Right,
So this this is a and I should note right
I didn't write this sound of my notes, but I
should tell you guys, if you don't already know, if
you go see the gravestone of of of Tolkien and

(27:04):
his wife Edith, it says Baron and Luthian. That's the
that that that's their epitaph, right, Baron Luthian, he like,
he used those names, and therefore the mythology that those
names signify as the epitaphs for their life, right, the
one word on each of their lives. Right. So you really,

(27:26):
you see, you read this story, You know the story,
and you know the heart of this man, right, you
know the heart of this man much more deeply.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yes, because he put so much for himself into.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
It, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and enough so that he it
was a fitting epitaph for him, right, you know, he
deemed it a fitting epithaph for himself and his wife. Yeah,
all right, So, uh, it does go back a long way.
There was you know, it's it's it's a story that's
developed and we will go into, you know, when we
eventually read the book Baron and Luthian, we'll go into
a lot more of how it developed over the years.

(27:56):
There's an epic poem version of this in volume three
of the Story of Middle Earth. So you know, it's
just it's just one of these stories that has uh
that that runs kind of through all of Middle Earth.
So after this scene, so we have bara Here and
his band of twelve and remaining in the region of Dorthonian.

(28:17):
All right, So Dorthonian. Where's Darthonia. Well, Dorthonian is up here, remember,
and it used to be called Dorthonian, but now it's
called Tarnufuin and it's right south of the Onfaglith, which,
of course Enbond is kind of up here off the map,
uh you know, up there. So bara Here and his
twelve companions are sort of this like gorilla band, right,

(28:41):
gorilla warfare band that are you know, there remained up
here to do to do battle with who whichever of
more God's forces they can they can find. And so
it turns out that Saluron is kind of the lieutenant
more Gost lieutenant that's kind of leading, uh you know,
leading the the evil forces, the four of Angban that
are in this area. Uh. Suron is commanded to find

(29:04):
and destroy Barrahir and his men, and that's not so easy.
They're pretty they're pretty awesome warriors. Not so easy until
the unfortunate episode of Golim Forulim the unhappy. So greta
a good chunk to read here. You want to start
by reading this, and we'll rotate paragraphs.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Now. Among the companions of bar Here was Gorlam, son
of Angram. His wife was named Elnel, and their love
was great ere evil befell. But Gorlam, returning from the
war upon the marches, found his house plundered and forsaken,
and his wife gone. Whether slain or taken, he knew not.
Then he fled to barra Here, and of his companions

(29:44):
he was the most fierce and desperate, but doubt not
his heart, thinking that perhaps Eileanel was not dead. At
times he would depart alone and secretly and visit his
house that still stood amid the fields and woods he
had once possessed, And this heme known to the servants
of Morgath.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
On a time of autumn, he came in the dusk
of evening, and drawing near, he saw, as he thought,
a light at the window, and coming wearily, he looked within.
There he saw Eilenel, and her face was worn with
grief and hunger, and it seemed to him that he
heard her voice, lamenting that he had forsaken her. But
even as he cried aloud, the light was blown out.
In the wind, wolves howled, and on his shoulders he

(30:23):
felt suddenly the heavy bands of Suron's hunters. Thus Gorlim
was ensnared, and taking him to their camp, they tormented him,
seeking to learn the hidings of Barahir and all his ways,
but nothing would Gourlim tell. Then they promised him that
he should be released and restored to Eilenel if he
would yield, And, being at last worn with pain and

(30:44):
yearning for his wife, he faltered. Then straightway they brought
him into the dreadful presence of Suran, and Sauron said,
I hear now that thou wouldst barter with me. What
is thy price?

Speaker 2 (30:55):
And Gorlam answered that he should find Eileinel again and
with her bead set free, for he thought that Eleanel
also had been made captive.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Then Saluron smiled, saying, that is a small price for
so great a treachery. So shall it truly be? Say on?

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Now Gorlam would have drawn back, but daunted by the
eyes of Sauron, he told at last all that he
would know. Then Sauron laughed, and he mocked Gorlam and
revealed to him that he had seen only a phantom
devised by wizardry to entrap him, for Eleanel was dead. Nonetheless,
I will grant thy prayer, said Sauron, and now shalt
go to Elanel and be set free of my service.

(31:36):
Then he put him cruelly to death.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, so big takeaway, man, Salarn's a.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Jerk, totally a jerk. That just seems beyond cruel Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, that's like that's just horrible, right, That's that's that's
that's cruelty. That almost feels like it just completely irridem right, yep,
I agreed. I mean you must be utterly broken in
spirit to do that to somebody else. But yeah, that's
what that's what Suron does. So you know, it's a
little glimpses of this that helps us understand better why

(32:15):
Saluron is so feared and why he's so bad, right,
why he's so evil? Excuse me, so unfortunately, gorlim By
revealing by Sarron's treachery, reveals the whereabouts of Bottle here

(32:35):
and Salarron's company kills battle here in all but one
of his comrades, and that one comrade is Baron the
son of battle here, right, So Baron survives and uh,
and then.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
He is survived because he's not there.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Right, He survives because he's not there. But he comes upon,
he comes upon like kind of the remains of the
battle and finds the Orcs and slaves and slays them,
all right. And what does he do, Well, he finds
his father's hand, which had been chopped off by one
of the Orcs, and it has the ring of the
ring of bar here, right, the ring of Fenrod felgend right,

(33:12):
which had been given to Barrow here in token of
barrow Here having saved his life. So so he has that,
he finds that. But then at thereafter he's on his own, right,
He's on his own in this cruel, dark, evil land.
So Baron wanders four years in d'arthonian, eventually flees and

(33:32):
heads south, all right. So he spent you know, in
that time. He's really he's pretty feared by all. You know,
he's kind of like he becomes this legend among the
among the the those who are dwelling in d'arthonian, the
for the evil forces. He's this kind of feared you know, uh,
feared entity. Right. They don't know what to make of him. Uh,
he's just always kind of popping up and doing damage

(33:53):
to the forces of Morgoth. But after after four years, man,
I picked a bad episode to have a cold on, y'all. Yeah,
or at least be getting over a cold. So he
he wanders south after four years, after four years in
this wilderness, and if you look the map again, where

(34:17):
is south? Well, south from Dorthonian is over the arid
gorgorotha mountains of Terror, and into the region of the
forest of Neldorreth and Dorioth. Right, Dorioth of course, being
the realm of King Thingle and of Queen Melian of course,
with the parents of Luthian. Now before he gets there,
the aered Gorgoroth. These are the mountains of Terror, and

(34:38):
this is where the descendants of Angolians dwell. So not
a not a happy place to have to go over.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
No, that's yeah, not a fun journey. Yeah, So I
wonder why he went south. I guess he just got
tired of.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
There's really no other I mean, you can't go north.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Right, all right, but I mean why not just do
where he.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Is because at some point you're just like, I need
to get out of here.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
No matter what as a traveling man.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Well, I mean, it's why would you know at some
point you're just like whatever, At this point, it's just
so horrible to be here. I'll take my chances, you know,
I'll take my chances going through. It's just not worth it.
Like it's like, yeah, it's just not worth it any anymore.
Like the quality of living here isn't so good, rightus.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
You think about the memory too, maybe, you know, knowing
that that's where his dad met his end and all
that he probably just needed a fresh start.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it says all that land was now
become filled with evil, and all clean things were departing
from it, and Baron was pressed so hard that at
last he was forced to flee from Darthonian.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Well answers my question.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
All right, Well, let's let's read about Baron meeting Luthian.
So I might have you go ahead, and I might
jump in and read a little bit, but then I
might have you read some more.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Terrible was his southward journey Sheer, where the precipices of
arid Gorgorath and beneath their feet were shadows that were
laid before the rising of the moon. Beyond lay the
wilderness of doug dun Gortheb, where the sorcery of Sauron
and the power of Melion came together, and horror and
madness walked there. Spiders of the fell race of Ungolient abode,

(36:10):
spinning their unseen webs in which all living things were snared,
And monsters wandered there that were born in the long
dark before the sun, hunting silently with many eyes. No
food for elves or men was there in that haunted land,
but death only. That journey is not accounted least among
the great deeds of Baron. But he spoke of it
to no one after lest the horror return into his mind,

(36:33):
And none know how he found a way, and so
came by paths that no man, nor elf, elf else
ever dared to tread, to the borders of Doriath. And
he passed through the mazes that Melion wove about the
Kingdom of thingle even as she had foretold, for a
great doom lay upon him. It is told in the
Lay of Lithe And that Baron came stumbling into Doriath

(36:55):
gray and bowed, as with many years of woe, so
that so that so great had been the torment of
the road. But wandering in the summer in the woods
of Neeldreth, he came upon Luthian, daughter of Thingle and Melion,
at a time of evening under moonrise. As she danced
upon the unfading grass and the glades beside a a skeldowan,

(37:17):
then all memory of his pain departed from him, and
he fell into an enchantment, for Luthian was the most
beautiful of all the children of a Lubatar. Blue was
her raiment as the unclouded heaven, but her eyes were
gray as the starlit evening. Her mantle was sown with
golden flowers, but her hair was dark as the shadows
of twilight, as the light upon the leaves of trees,

(37:38):
as the voice of clear waters, as the stars above
the mists of the world. Such was her glory and
her loveliness, and in her face was a shining light.
But she vanished from his sight, and he became dumb
as one that is bound under a spell. And he
strayed long in the woods, wild and wary as a beast,
seeking for her. In his heart, he called her to

(38:00):
Viell that signifies Nightingale, daughter of Twilight. In the gray
elven tongue, for he knew no other name for her.
And he saw her afar as leaves and the winds
of autumn, and in winter as a star upon a hill,
but a chain was upon his limbs. There came a
time near dawn, on the eve of spring, and Luthian
danced upon a green hill, And suddenly she began to sing.

(38:21):
Keen heart piercing was her song, as the song of
the lark that rises from the gates of night and
pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun
behind the walls of the world. And the song of
Luthian released the bonds of winter, and the frozen water spoke,
and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet
had passed. Then the spell of silence fell from Baron,

(38:41):
and he called to her, crying to Nuvielle, and the
woods echoed her, echoed the name. Then she halted in
wonder and fled no more, And Baron came to her.
But as she looked on him, doom fell upon her,
and she loved him. Yet she slipped from his arms
and vanished from his sight, even as the day was breaking.
Then Baron lay upon the ground in a wound, as
one slain at once by bliss and grief, and he

(39:03):
fell into a sleep, as it were, into an abyss
of shadow and waking. He was cold as stone, and
his heart barren and forsaken, and wandering in mind. He
groped as one that is stricken with sudden blindness, and
seeks with hands to grasp the vanished light. Thus he
began the payment of anguish for the fate that was
laid on him. And in his fate, Luthian was caught,
and being immortal, she shared in his mortality, and being free,

(39:27):
received his chain. And her anguish was greater than any
other of the Eldelier as has known. Beyond his hope,
she returned to him where he sat in darkness and
long ago in the hidden kingdom, she laid her hand
on his. Thereafter often she came to him, and they
went in secret through the woods together from spring to summer.

(39:47):
And no others of the children of a Luvtar have
had joy so great, though the time was brief.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah. So, you know, just beautiful little vignette of the
meeting of Baron and Luthian. You know, they they they
fall in love. Baron sees her calls to her, she

(40:15):
hears him, and then you know, he falls for her
first she falls for him, you know. And it's like, well, Thingle, Melion,
you know, it's kind of history repeating itself in a way, right,
Like so you know you all kind of fell in
love under the twilight, right and you know, and now

(40:36):
here it happens. Right now, we're gonna get into more
with Fingal actually kind of skip over and just kind
of skip over some stuff. But let me say a
few things about Thingle. So Thingle is not gonna be
happy when he finds out that this base born mortal
right Has, you know, has Has, wants to marry, you know,

(40:56):
marry his daughter, right who is the most beautiful of
all the children of the guitar. But it's like single, uh,
you are a baseborn elf. You may be immortal, but
you're still a baseborn elf who deigned to marry a goddess.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Like, yeah, perspective here, guys. Yeah, it's it's really you're
absolutely right. I mean it's funny. It's almost like he's
let that go to his head in a way. He's like,
it's a double standard. I also want to comment real
quick on this. You know, obviously this has become a theme.
We've talked about it in several different episodes about this
whole idea of enchant enchanted love, you know, these like

(41:38):
high spells being cast upon people and then falling in love.
But this one, and you all know how I feel
about some of those stories, but this one, I feel
like it's fair. It's fair, it's balanced because they're both
they're both come under an enchantment. It's not just one
that's you know, it's this is more of a fair fight,

(41:58):
if you will, in my humble onion, because they both
you know, even even Luthian being you know, immortal, is
still subject to this enchantment, which I think is really cool.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah I could, I could. I could play Devil's advocate there,
and now, well I don't want to because there's so
much more to talk about this and I don't and
and really it would be I agree with you, like,
it would be kind of hard pressed to to play
Devil's advocate there. And my goal with the other ones
was never to play it's it's funny. In fact, on
the last one, you know, it was like I don't

(42:32):
know what happened there, but you But on the one
we don't on my uh on a magnet with Ale
and uh Outifel. It was like, you know, somehow, I
somehow I think I became the bad guy in that one.
And I was like, well, wait a minute, how did
that happen? Uh Like? So anyway, all we're trying to
never do is have interesting conversations and you know, kind

(42:53):
of expand our minds and ask like, well, why is
this true over here but not true over here? Right?
Those are all that's how you think, Like that's good forilosophy.
Those are reasonable questions. So and I could ask some
of those questions here and but overall, I mean, I
agree with you, and I agree with your assessment for
the most part on the other two cases that we
talked about as well. Right, but this one just seems

(43:14):
a lot more pure it. You know, it's clear that
both of them now, I guess the only thing I
would say is that Luthian obviously having a little bit
of got it, you know, have being half goddess.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Right, it's kind of a leg up.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
She has a leg up on all this, so you know,
Baron falls for her, but but she just utterly Baron
is so broken at this point and she heals him
right like, and it's like, you know, and and she
truly you know, falls for him. So anyway, and we're
going to see, Like one of my favorite things about
this story is, you know there's the old like people

(43:48):
just every once in a while, somebody wants to be like, oh,
Tolkien's like female characters are so weak, you know, like
and it's like you haven't read much Tolkien. Have you
go read Baron and Luthian, right, literally, Baron and Luthian
is a story about this the greatest of all warriors
among you know, among men and elves, and you know,

(44:10):
just a total you know, bad arse. And and then
it's about how he keeps on getting himself into trouble
and his girlfriend has to come rescue him, right, I
mean it's basically like that's what happens in this story.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
What happens.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Yeah, yeah, and uh and and and has to use
like her incredible powers you know, you know, don't even
be started on other female characters, but I'm just saying
like this is a great example of that.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Like it's like Baron is like it's not like he's
a goofball. He's like one of the greatest greatest warriors
there are, but in this story, Luthian has to repeatedly
rescue him.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yes, And and you know, knowing how personal this story
was to Tolkien, I feel like you can't help but
but think of the story in light of that truth
because and I also I kinda have to chuckle here,
just given the whole the mutual enchantment here, right, knowing

(45:07):
that Tolkien identifies with Baron, Right, it's almost like, well,
of course he has to make Luthian fall for Baron,
because like it can't all be one sided, right, I mean,
it's like it's like I've got to make Luthian fall
for a Baron because I'm barren, you know, like it's
you know, I wonder if it's just a little bit
of Tolkien saving face. Maybe it's being like, well, it

(45:29):
was totally mutual between Edith and me.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Well, I think everything we've ever been able to find is,
you know, is that it was right, that truly that
they were Oh for sure, you know, I mean there's
obviously there's been play of marriages throughout history where you know,
they it wasn't necessarily about love, no, not in the
sense of romantic love, although you know, that's anyway. I

(45:52):
won't get into that whole issue because I think there's
some modernistic sort of missing saying there. But anyway, you know,
let's just just like let's say, like the ideal is
that to you know, to married people, you know, have
a decent amount of romantic love for one another, right
and you know, and and hopefully a lot of romantic
love for one another. And yeah, you know, this is

(46:16):
I think that Edith and uh and Ronald as she
would have referred to him, both did.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Right, They both did. And I know that just from.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
I mean, they were this is this is kind of
their I'm sorry, this is kind of their story, right,
like like they were both I don't think either of
their families were happy about they were you know, he
was Catholic, she was Protestant. They were both probably too young,
like they you know, it's like they they found each
other when they were young, and they like like they

(46:48):
they were everything to one another, right, they were everything
to one another. Right, It's like finding that person, like
finding your best Like Tolkien was an orphan. She is
I think an orphan or like, but she was living
with you know, in the same house as Tolkien because
they were living with this person, and like it was

(47:11):
like finding your best friend and also finding your wife,
like your your husband or your soulmate. It's soulmate exactly,
that's the term, right, Like this is truly like a
soulmate story. And that and because because their story was
a soulmate.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Story exactly exactly, it's very autobiographical in a way. And
and just you know, and how you were describing Lucian
as you know, one of the strongest warriors. You basically
have to keep saving Baron over and over. I mean
that and of itself. I mean I feel like that's
how Tolkien talked about Edith, right, I mean where would
he be without her? Right? He was in a way.

(47:45):
I think she probably saved him from himself more times
than than not.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
So yeah, undoubtedly, undoubtedly. And you know, as we both
know from being married for many years, like that's what
happens all the time, Like one of us is one
of us always seems to be kind of saving the other,
and you know, in small ways and occasionally in big ways, right,
like you know, So so that's I don't know, that's
a that's a beautiful thing about about that sort of

(48:10):
romantic love and uh, and ultimately marriage marwage Mawwige is
what brings us together to day. I gotta say my
words every time I every time I start talking my
throat it's itchy and cough all right, So.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Well, five delayed, you just say the world, I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Okay that sounds I mean, maybe I'll just you know you,
the more you lead, the the better. But anyway, so
long you know, Baron Luthian Meat fall in love. Thingle
is not happy about this.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
She thinks he thinks Baron is is been is beneath
her right.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Their love is betrayed to Thingle, and I'm trying to
get us caught up on our on my like, I.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Was just trying to help you during your coughing.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
No, you're good, You're good. I'm also trying to make
sure this doesn't drag out to be five hours long.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
So you're just gonna have to keep cutting me off then, Okay, honestly,
I could talk forever about this story.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
I know it is fantastic, all right. So their love
is betrayed Thingle and Baron is arrested. Long story short,
Baron wants to marry Luthi, and Thingle won't allow it
unless Baron can obtain a silmrilla from more Gos's crown,
which Thingle doesn't really think he can do. Baron sets
out on his quest, seeks the aid of Finrod first.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
I just think a very important note, sorry, a very
important note here is that Melion counsels him against this.
She basically says, this is a bad idea.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Counsel Stingle against this.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
What did I say?

Speaker 1 (49:39):
No, No, you just say counsels him against Okay.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Yes, you're clarify of my big pronoun thank you. And
it just makes me so mad that Thingle continues to
just turn a deaf ear to his wife. By the way,
is a my rye. It's just like again, Goddess right
right exactly. I mean, clearly Thingle has like the superiority

(50:02):
complex and it's just really gone on my nerves in
this chapter. But I digress.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Well, No, I think I think that very much stands
out in this chapter, and that in and of itself,
that character flaw being so manifest in this story is
is also setting the stage for you know, things to come.
So for sure, all right, so let's go back to
our map here. So he, like as I said, he

(50:30):
sets out on this quest to obtain the film rele
and and by the way, there's a lot more to
what I just went over in a few sentences that
happened there. It's all worth reading, but it's you know,
it's we just can't cover everything in the story in
detail right now in one episode. All right, So Baron
sets out and look at this little red line here.
So what we see here, this is Lord of the
ringsproject dot com, very very cool website. And so he

(50:56):
gets to Minigroth, and then he sets out from Minnagroth.
So this is where starts out up here, right, comes
down through the aeron Gorgoroth and to Neldareth, winds up
a Minogroth with single leaves on his quest and right,
and he goes south over here all right to the

(51:16):
fens of Cyrion, so the falls of Syrian. And then
he he spots this realm and meets some of the
men of Fennrod or some of the some of the
elves of Fenrod, I suppose, and winds up, winds up
convincing Fennrod to go on this quest with him right

(51:37):
to obtain this.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
So Marl also, sorry, real quick, what do we think
about thingle like basically equating the worth of his daughter
to a somarol. You should read my book, Oh I
think I have.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Have you read yeah Tolkien's Tolkien's reco Yeah, I talk
I talk about it in there, right, Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
I'm sorry, I don't. I don't mean to, and that
maybe I meant that more as of a rhetorical question
for our listeners, because I know you could probably wax
poetic on that for a while too.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
But by the way, I would love, like, I truly
hope that one day we'll get to see like I
could see them doing a film a million where like
a whole series, like a whole season is devoted to
this story. At the very least, I would love to
see a film, like a film version of this story awesome.

(52:31):
So not a musical, No, not a musical, but yeah.
So I will also say that since I wrote that book,
which is one of the very first things I did,
you know, it was kind of when we first started
the podcast, I I feel like I could write that
rewrite that book and it would be three times as
long because there's so much more to this story than

(52:53):
what I have in there. Maybe I will at some point.
So anyway, all right, so he said it out. He
convinces Finrod to go with him. Let's read a little
bit about how that all comes about. So can you
read this paragraph?

Speaker 2 (53:07):
For here Thus Baron came before King King Finrod Felgund,
and Felgund knew him, needing no ring to remind him
of the kin of Beaor and of Barhir. Behind closed
doors they sat, and Baron told of the death of
barr Heir and of all that had befallen him in Doriath.
And he wept, recalling Luthian in their joy together. But

(53:28):
Felgund heard his tale and wander and disquiet, and he
knew that the oath he had sworn was come upon
him for his death, as long before he had foretold
to Galadriel. He spoke then to Baron in heaviness of heart.
It is plain that thingle desires your death. But it
seems that this doom goes beyond his purpose, and that
the oath of Feyanor is again at work. For the

(53:50):
Silmarills are cursed with an oath of hatred, and he
that even names them in desire moves a great power
from slumber. And the sons of Feianor would lay all
the Elf Kingdom's in ruin rather than suffer any other
than themselves to win or possess the Sommarile, for the
oath drives them. And now Kelligorm and Coryffin are dwelling

(54:10):
in my halls. And though I Fennarfin's son am king,
they have won a strong power in the realm and
lead many of their own people. They have shown friendship
to me in every need. But I fear that they
will show neither love nor mercy to you if your
quest be told. Yet my own oath holds, and thus
we are all ensnared.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Yeah, so oaths ensnaring all of these all of these people. Right,
So the oath of fan or Finrod's oath thingle makes
an oath, right, you know, to that if Baron is
able to obtain this summarill Right, so oaths just abound
and going to cause going to cause some serious problems.
Finrod is right about Kelligorm and Gruffin. We'll see how

(54:51):
that all plays out.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
And Finrod's oath was actually toborrow here debis is that right?
Because his life Yeah?

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Yeah, so all right, So Finrod and a small companies
set out with Barron to go north. So they head
in this northward direction along the River Naragh, and eventually
they do wind up after some exploits, they wind up

(55:19):
here in our little narrow pass of the rivers, the
river Syrion here, and this is where, of course, the
what once was told Syrion was. And Saluron now has
kind of his chief hideout, and Salaron waylays them and

(55:41):
does battle with them, and we have our we have
our battle of the songs of Power. I should say
also that Finrod agreed to help Baron Caligorm and Korfin
We're not happy about that. And then Finrod basically laid
down his crown and said, all right, I'm gonna make
our draft my brother or Dreff, the king of Nargothrond.

(56:02):
So so here we go, Greta, can you read this
Battle of the song. So this says, thus befell the
contest of Salon and Felagan, which is renowned for Felagan
strove with Suron and songs of power, and the power
of the king was very great, but Saluron had the mastery,
as is told in the Lay of Lithian. So, Greta,
can you read this battle of the songs of power.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
He chanted a song of wizardry, of piercing, opening of treachery, revealing, uncovering, betraying.
Then sudden Felagin, to their swaying, sang an answer, a
song of staying, resisting, battling against power, of secrets, kept
strength like a tower, and trust, unbroken freedom, escape, of changing,

(56:45):
and of shifting, shape of snares, eluded, broken traps, the
prison opening, the chain that snaps backwards and forwards, forwards,
swayed their song, reeling and foundering as ever more strong,
the chanting swelled, fell Agin fought, and all the magic
of might he brought the Albanese into his words. Softly

(57:08):
in the gloom, they heard the birds singing a foreign
narda thrond, the sighing of the sea beyond, beyond the
western world, on sand, on sand of pearls and Elvenland.
Then the gloom gathered, darkness growing in Ballanor, the red
blood flowing beside the sea, where then Oldor slew the
foam riders. The stealing drew their white ships, and stealing

(57:28):
drew their white ships and their white sail, with their
white sails from Lamplet havens. The wind wails, the wolf howls,
the ravens flee, the ice mutters in the mouths of
the sea, the captives sad and angban morn, thunder rumbles,
the fires burn, and Finrod fell before the throne.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
So yeah, you know, it's interesting to think about the
songs of these songs of power. Finnrod ultimately comes out
on the losing end of this battle, and what, you know,
what are the things that Sauron, you know, so I
love so Finrod. You know, let's just kind of let's
kind of analyze this briefly. Surn starts with this song

(58:09):
of wizardry, of piercing, opening of treachery, revealing and covering, betraying,
and then Saron starts, sorry, Suron starts like that, and
Finrod responds a song of staying, resisting, battling against power,
of secrets, kept strength like a tower, and trust, unbroken freedom, escape,
of changing and of shifting, shape of snares, eluted, broken traps,

(58:29):
the prison opening, the chain that snaps all these images
of escape right escaping from the darkness, backwards and forwards.
Their song reeling and foundering is every more strong. The
chanting swelled Felagan fought, he brought and that's Elvan s
by the way, Elvan s all the magic in night
he brought to Elvin s into his words. Safely in
the gloom they have the birds singing and Remarkaret throne,

(58:50):
and then the gloom gathered, darkness growing in valan or
the red blood flowing. And what is he? What does
Suron sing of? He sings of the kin slaying, right,
the kin slaying. And that's what That's what That's what
destroys Fenrod's will, right, that's what breaks him here. It's
the kin sling. It's the memory of fell deeds done right,
of the breaking, of the sundering of his peoples, of

(59:12):
his brethren. Uh, you know, this is and I think
this is important to understand in this story because one
of the themes that will you know, that I think
we'll find is how do how do the peoples, the
free peoples of Middle Earth find a way, despite all

(59:33):
of the evils of the past that they've done to
one another, to come together against their common enemy and
to defeat him right, and to defeat him and and
and this is a story of how disparate peoples are
bound together again, right, come together and lead usher in
and even an even more glorious age, right, and an

(59:55):
even more glorious reality. Right. So it ends. This section
ends by saying, then Sarron stripped from them their disguise.
Of course, they've been disguised like orcs, and they stood
before him naked and afraid. But though their kinds were revealed,
Suron could not discover their names or their purposes. He
cast them therefore into a deep pit, dark and silent,
and threatened to slay them cruelly unless one would betray

(01:00:17):
the truth to him. From time to time they saw
two eyes kindled in the dark, and a were wolf
devoured one of the companions, but none betrayed their lord.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
So some good companions.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Yeah yeah, so so again ensnared captured Fenrod, Baron and companions.
And and by the way, I'll just have my note
here because I thought to do this and then came
back and diod it earlier. But hey, reminder, Fenrod, use

(01:00:47):
code Finrod to get both My books were twenty five
percent off at Truemispress dot com. Boom only episode you'll
ever hear that, all right, So Luthian learns of Baron's imprisonment,
goes to his rescue, befriends Huan the wolf found and
to say, total in Gauhath where Baron is in prison
and Fenrod has just died. All right, so I skipped
over a whole lot there, you know, It's it's all

(01:01:10):
good stuff, very good stuff. Huan such a great such
a great figure. I mean, if if if this toy
didn't already have everything, it's got a it's got a
freaking talking dog in it. Yeah right, that's awesome, right
that it's like that, You're just like I want that dog,
like I want that dog to be my dog. Right,
that would be awesome. So so Huon is a is

(01:01:31):
another great character. We'll talk a little bit about him
at one point, but just another fantastic character that we
could spend a lot of time more time talking about,
but won't end this episode. All right. So Luthian learns
of Uh, learns of baron imprisonment, and goes to his
rescue at Toll and god.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
It sounds so easy, like she just like, oh, I'm
gonna go.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
It wasn't that was that was my point, Like it
wasn't easy. But I'm skipping over a lot, all right.
But let's read about her rescue. All right, so Greta,
here we go.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
In that hour, Luthian came, and standing upon the bridge
that led to Saaron's Isle, she sang a song that
no walls of stone could hinder. Baron heard and he
thought that he dreamed, for the stars shone above him,
and in the trees nightingales were singing. And in answer
he sang a song of challenge that he had made
in praise of the seven stars, the sickle of the
Valar that Varda hung above the north as a sign

(01:02:24):
for the fall of Morgoth. Then all strength left him,
and he fell down into darkness. But Luthian heard his
answering voice, and she sang then a song of greater power.
The wolves howled and the isle trembled. Saurons stood in
the high tower, wrapped in his black thought, but he
smiled hearing her voice, for he knew that it was
the daughter of Melian. The fame of the beauty of Luthian,

(01:02:45):
and the wonder of her song had long gone forth
from Doriath. And he thought to make her captive and
hand her over to the power of Morgoth, for his
reward would be great. Therefore he sent a wolf to
the bridge, but Huan slew it silently still, Saurn sent
others one by one, and one by one, Huon took
them by the throat and slew them. Then Sauron sent

(01:03:07):
du drag Luin drag Luin, a dread beast, old and
evil lord and sire of the werewolves of Angband. His
might was great, and the battle of Huon and drag
Lun Luin drag drag Luin was long in fierce. Yet
at length drug drug Ulun escaped. Gues's call them d

(01:03:31):
drag Luin, drag Luin. Yeah. Yet at length drag Luin escaped,
and fleeing back into the tower, he died before Saaran's feet.
And as he died, he told his master, Huon, is
there now? Sauron knew well, as did all in that land,
the fate that was decreed for the hound of Valinor,

(01:03:53):
and it came into his thought that he himself would
accomplish it. Therefore he took upon himself the form of
a where wulf, and made himself the mightiest that had
yet walked the world. And he came forth to win
the passage of the bridge.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
I'll read a paragraph great, so great was the horror
of his approach that Huon leaped aside. Then Saluron sprang
upon Luthian, and she swooned before the menace of the
fel spirit in his eyes and the foul vapor of
his breath. But even as he came falling, she cast
a fold of her dark cloak before his eyes, and
he stumbled for a fleeting drowsiness came upon him. Then
Huon sprang. There befell the battle of Huon and wolf

(01:04:29):
saw ran, and the wolves and baying echoed in the hills,
and the watchers on the walls of erid Wethrn crossed
the valley herded Afar and were dismayed. But no wizardry
nor spell, neither fang nor venom, nor devil's art nor
beasts strength could overthrow Huan of Valinor. And he took
his foe by the throat and pinned him down. Then
Saluran shifted shape from wolf to serpent, and from monster
to his own accustomed formed form, but he could not

(01:04:52):
elude the grip of Huan without forsaking his body utterly.
Ere his foul spirit left its dark house, Luthian came
to him and said that he should be stripped of
his raiment of flesh, and his ghost be sent quaking
back to Morgoth. And she said, there everlastingly, thy naked
self shall endure the torment of his scorn pierced by
his eyes, unless thou yield to me the mastery of

(01:05:13):
thy tower.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Then t Saron yielded himself, and Luthian took the mastery
of the isle and all that was there, and Huon
released him, and immediately he took the form of a vampire,
great as a dark cloud across the moon. And he fled,
dripping blood from his throat, upon the trees, and came
to Tar Tarnufuen and dwelt there, filling it with horror.

(01:05:37):
Then Luthian stood upon the bridge and declared her power,
and the spell was loose that bound stone to stone,
and the gates were thrown down, and the walls opened,
and the pits laid bare. And many thralls and captives
came forth in wonder and dismay, shielding their eyes against
the pale moonlight, for they had lain long in the
darkness of Tsaran. But Baron came not. Therefore, Huon and

(01:05:59):
Luthian saw him in the sought him in the aisle,
and Luthium found him mourning by Felagan. So deep was
his anguish that he lay still and did not hear
her feet. Then, thinking him already dead, she put her
arms about him and fell into a dark forgetfulness. But Barren,
coming back to the light out of the pits of despair,
lifted her up, and they looked again upon one another

(01:06:19):
in the day rising over the dark hills shown upon them.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yeah, so pretty awesome rescue scene. Luthian and Huan worked together.
I love Luthian just like owns Sauron. She's just like,
She's just like there, I will send you back to Morgth,
completely stripped of the raiment of your flesh, back like

(01:06:44):
a ghost. Therefore, everlastingly, thy naked celshal endure the torment
of his score and pierced by his eyes, unless thou
yield to me the mastery of thy tower.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
And so I was like, okay, sure, right, whatever you are.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
That Yeah, now you can see why suren hates like
all of her descendants so much.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Right, Like she basically made him a fool. Yeah it
looks like a fool.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Yeah, she she really just just owned him right here.
So again, Uh, Luthian, Uh, don't, don't, don't even come
at me with this business about Tolkien had such weak
female characters. I just.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Yes, and I want to just say too, just kind
of on. I just love this little piece here about
about how you know, Luthian comes upon Baron and she
thinks he's dead, so she falls into despair and then
Baron comes out of his despair and saves her. It's like,
you know, she saves him and then he saves her.

(01:07:44):
I think I just love like this mutual you know,
this mutual love, and you know, just it just seems
very equal, like they're they're very equally matched.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
Yeah, yeah, well for sure, and you know I have
don't really dive into this, we won't dive into this
much in this in this discussion here, but Luthian, Luthian
has some serious powers, Like she has some like very
obviously but but like if you kind of dive into it,
she's got some pretty fascinating powers like this whole like

(01:08:19):
I think I feel like she has this ability, like
ability to like make people fall asleep.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
That was like a yeah, well she has like that
spell seeking cast. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Anyway, it's just like interesting powers to me. But all right,
so yeah, we're you gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
Say, Oh, I was just gonna mention that that's the
when she takes control of Surron's tower. That whole rescue
scene has very like, very much reminded me like the
harrowing of Hell.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Nice. Yeah, oh definitely definitely. Yeah, when it describes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Like all of those all of those the captives.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
Captives coming forward, yeah, right, you know, just kind of
the breaking breaking open of it. Yeah, very good stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
It is really interesting too, though, to know that Baron
didn't like his grief over the death of Finrod was
so like, so deep that even you know that that
that that Luthian's initial efforts didn't send him free.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
So Finrod is dead. Finrod the Great Fenrod feligand Is
is dead at this point. And let's let's remember for
a moment that he is the brother of Gladriel, right,
he is brother of the Gladriel. And let me finish

(01:09:35):
my point there. So who do you think really hates
Sarn Gladriel? Right, not a fan of Sarn, not a
fan of Surn. So anyway, what are you gonna say?

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
I was gonna say I might be wrong about this,
but didn't didn't Finnrod die protecting Baron? Like was it?
I think like Saaran's goal, Like he sent the werewolf
for whatever he sent him after Baron beset Finnrod, you know, basically,

(01:10:13):
so he basically is like in a way repaying that
debt right for Taborrow here, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Yeah, So Baron and many others rescued, and then we're
going to jump past the story of the treachery of
Corfend and Kelligorm. It's also worthwhile to spend time with
we will just briefly speak of who wants a prophecy
here though, But basically from this point it's like the

(01:10:38):
next thing is all right, it's time to go get
this sim real, right, Like enough enough messing around, all right,
where it's time to go make make this happen. Uh
So whu On, as we said, he is a hound
of vallenor he's a speaking hound, and he prophesied three
times in this story, so this is his second prophecy.

(01:11:00):
Then for the second time, Huan spoke with words, and
he counseled Baron, saying, from the shadow of death, you
can no longer save Luthian, for by her love, she
is now subject to it. You can turn from your
fate and lead her into exile, seeking peace in vain
while your life lasts. But if you will not deny
your doom, then either Luthian, being forsaken, must assrewdly die alone,
or she must, with your child with you, challenge the

(01:11:21):
fate that lies before you. Hopeless yet not certain further counsel,
I cannot give, nor may I go further on your road.
But my heart forebodes that what you find at the
gate I shall myself see. All else is dark to me.
Yet it may be that our three paths lead back
to Dorioth, and may be we may meet before the end.

(01:11:42):
So Huan basically says to Baron, like, look, she's either
going to if you go to Angband, she's going with you,
or if you forsake your mission, then you're going to
forsake her right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Because he's trying to get Baron was trying to get
Luthian and go back home.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
Yeah, well I'm sorry, Yeah, that's right. You can turn
from your fate and lead her into exile, seeking peace
in vain while your life lasts. So, but your doom
right is to go as sail Angbond and she's and
she will go with you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Basically, you're not going to shake her, right no matter
what you do, so you just embrace it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Yeah. Well, I mean it's a tough thing, right. He
doesn't want to lead you know, he's trying to win her.
He doesn't want to lead her into danger, right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
So, but I mean the girl has gone to incredible
lengths to to like continue, like she continues to come
after him, So it's just kind of it's kind of
funding me. The baron thinks that he could actually like
win that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Battle with her, right well, and you wonder too, And again,
like Tolkien never like said, you know, you should read
this story autobiographically, but we kind of can't help it
because he put their names on their names for their
for their epitaphs, and we see the other ways in
which the story, we know the other ways in which
the story is overlap. But you kind of wonder, like
was this again from his own experience, Like, you know,
were there times that that he we know that there

(01:13:00):
were times that they were like kind of forced to
be apart, right, And you wonder was there a time
when he was like Luthian, you know, or Edith go
you know, I have to go my own way, right,
and I don't want to drag you along with me.
And she was like, she was like, no, I'm I'm
gonna be with you, right, And you know, I'm sure

(01:13:21):
it happened the other way as well, right, But yeah, yeah,
a little biographical possibility.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
There, Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
So we also learned that more Goth creates this kind
of Huon mockery named Karkaroth to do battle with Huon, right,
and and this is before the obtaining of the silm Merle.
So he does this just in time for Baron, Luthian
and Huan to arrive in their attempt to obtain the

(01:13:52):
silverrle from the iron crown of more Gooth. Right, all right,
so let's read about the obtaining of the Silmarle right here.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Then Baron and Luthian went through the gate and down
the labyrinthine Labyrithin's stairs, and together wrought wrought the greatest
deed that has been dared by elves or men. For
they came to the seat of Morgoth in his nethermost
hall that was upheld by horror, lit by fire, and
filled with weapons of death and torment. There Baron slunk

(01:14:21):
in wolf's form beneath his throne, and Luthian was stripped
of her disguise by the will of Morgoth, and he
bent his gaze upon her. She was not daunted by
his eyes, and she named her own name, and offered
her service to sing before him, after the manner of
a minstrel. Then Morgoth, looking upon her beauty, conceived in
his thought and evil lust, in a design more dark

(01:14:42):
than any that had yet come into his heart since
he fled from Balinoor. Thus he was beguiled by his
own malice, for he watched her, leaving her free for
a while, and taking secret pleasure in his thought. Then
suddenly she eluded his sight, and out of the shadows
began a song of such surpassing loveliness and of such
blos blinding power, that he listened perforce, and a blindness

(01:15:04):
came upon him, as his eyes roamed to and fro
seeking her. All his court were cast down in slumber,
and all the fires faded and were quenched. But the
silmurils and the crown of Morgoth's and the crown on
Morgoth's head blazed forth suddenly with a radiance of white flame,
and the burden of that crown and of the jewels
bowed down his head as though the world were set

(01:15:25):
upon it, laden with a weight of care, of fear,
and of desire that even the will of Morgoth could
not support. Then Luthian, catching her, catching up her winged robe,
sprang into the air, and her voice came dropping down
like rain into pools profound and dark. She cast her
cloak before his eyes and set upon him a dream,
dark as the outer void where once he walked alone.

(01:15:47):
Suddenly he fell as a hill sliding an avalanche, and
hurled like thunder from his throne, lay prone upon the
floors of hell. The iron crown rolled echoing from his head.
All things were still.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
I can really as a dead beast. Baron lay upon
the ground. But Luthian, touching him with her hand, aroused him,
and he cast aside the wolf hame. Then he drew
forth the kniph angrist, and from the iron claws that
held it he cut to somrle. As he closed it
in his hand, the radiance welled through his living flesh,
and his hand became as a shining lamp. But the
jewels suffered his touch and hurt him, not It came

(01:16:21):
then into Baron's mind that he would go beyond his
bow and bear out of Agbond all three of the
jewels of Fanor. But such was not the doom of
the Sommerl's. The knife Angris snapped, and a shard of
the blade flying smote the cheek of Morgoth. He groaned
and stirred, and all the hosts of Agbond moved in sleep.
Then terror fell upon Baron and Luthian, and they fled,
heedless and without disguise, desiring only to see the light

(01:16:44):
once more. They were neither hindered nor pursued. But the
gate was held against their going out, for Karcaroth had
arisen from sleep and now and stood now in wrath
upon the threshold of Angband. Before they were aware of him.
He saw them and sprang upon them. As they ran good.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
Luthian was spent, and she had not time nor strength
to quell the wolf. But Baron strode forth before her,
and in his right hand he held aloft the Somemrelkrkaroth halted,
and for a moment was afraid. Get you gone and fly,
cried Baron, For here is a fire that shall consume
you and all evil things, and he thrust the Solmrl

(01:17:21):
before the eyes of the wolf. But Karkaroth stood looked
upon that holy jewel, and was not daunted. And the
devouring spirit within him awoke to sudden fire and gaping.
He took suddenly the hand within his jaws, and he
bit it off at the wrist. Then swiftly all his
inwards were filled with the flame of anguish, and the
silmrel seared his accursed flesh. Howling he fled before them,

(01:17:42):
and the walls of the valley of the Gate echoed
with the clamor of his torment. So terrible did he
become in his madness, that all the creatures of Morgoth
that abode in that valley, or were upon any of
the roads that led thither, fled far away. For he
slew all living things that stood in his path, and
burst from the north with ruin upon the world. Of

(01:18:03):
all the terrors that came ever into belleriond ere Angban's fall,
the madness of Carcharoth was the most dreadful, for the
power of the Sorel was hidden within him. Now Baron
lay in a swoon within the perilous skate and death
drew nigh for him drew nigh him, for there was
venom on the fangs of the wolf, and Luthian, with
her lips, drew out the venom. And she put forth

(01:18:24):
her failing power to staunch the hideous wound. But behind her,
in the depths of Enband, the rumor grew of great
wrath aroused. The hosts of Morgoth were awakened.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
Yeah, so they get they obtained the somerle to cut
it from the iron crown of Morgoth. Baron is able
to hold it in his hand, right, apparently, because you know,
so we see Baron the way he's able to hold
it in his hand, and then we see that, you know,
the like more Goth had burned him when he held
the surells, right, and we see here the Carcaroth when

(01:18:58):
he ingests some marl, it burns him from the inside out, right,
So Baron, there's something about the good that can withstand
or that the Silmrells are okay with, and the evil
that they're not so okay with, right that they you know,
and it's it's kind of like, you know, this this
idea of I guess, this idea of holiness. Right, So

(01:19:21):
you know, the divine or those things which are holy
will not sit well with you if you are evil, right,
they will even though they're intended. They're intended for good,
for your good if you have if you're an evil
thing approaching them, then they will do you harm. Right.
And so Baron Luthian obtained the soil Marrel. They almost

(01:19:44):
escape from Longbond because Luthian puts everybody to sleep and
Karkaroth stops them, chomps off Baron's hand and then it's like,
what have I done? And just runs off, like just
like burning from the inside.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
Out, and there's just that, you know, it's that what
is it called? It says that his you know, he
basically had like this unquenchable thirst, right the car cur
Off does. And it was it was just like, you know,
it's just this mindset of I want what I want
when I want it, and obviously that doesn't always go

(01:20:22):
the way that you want it to. I also thought
it was cool that it was actually this this knife
hungrist that had belonged Was it to Caligorm or Griffin?
It was one of their knives that Baron got like

(01:20:45):
in one of those scuffle. We skipped over it. But
basically in that treachery of Curiffin and Caligorm. Caligorm, that's
how he obtained this knife. Shows that even good can
come from, you know, bad situations, because how else have
you gotten it? Like I was kind of wondering that,
I'm like, does this knife? It made it a point
to say that it would basically like cleave iron like

(01:21:06):
it was green wood. Right, I mean, this is like
a supernatural knife basically, so it's probably may have been
one of the only ways that he could have gotten
the Silmurle out. Yeah, and he wouldn't have gotten that
knife if it hadn't been for that incident with Kelligorm.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
And excellent points. Thanks, excellent points. Baron and Luthian rescued
by eagles, right, So always, you know, when moments of
you catastrophe, right, the happy catastrophe, eagles are often present, Right.
So there we go, the eagles rescue them, and and

(01:21:41):
so they journey back and we learn of Baron delivers,
you know, basically says my mission is accomplished. And then
he goes to Thingle and he's like, well, let me
see the let me see the Silmrell and he's like
opens his one hand and this not there right, and
he's like, you know, it's like, well, I got it,

(01:22:02):
and your daughter can tell you I got it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
But well it's very clever wording, yeah, right, because he
says that it's I have it in my hand right right,
which doesn't or now you think, oh, you have the
hand that's attached to the arm, but in case, this
case is not. So it's found that very clever. It
made me chuckle.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
But thingle you know, is as hard as softened, is
softened somewhat when he you know what he realizes this,
and but you know, really at this point, they learn
in Doriof that this foul beast Carcarth is filled with
a simmer and he's kind of like, you know, he's
kind of running through Bellerion, like just destroying all kinds

(01:22:44):
of things. And so they go hunting. They're like, we
gotta hunt this, we gotta hunt this thing down. And
of course hu Wan is still along for the hunt,
and uh, and that will that will cause a pretty
big battle here between the Huon and Kharkaroth.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
So you worried this baron stood beside thingal and suddenly
they were aware that Huon had left their side. Then
a great baying awoke in the thicket. For Huon, becoming
impatient and desiring to look upon this wolf, had gone
in alone to dislodge him, but Karkaroth avoided him, and,
bursting from the thorns, leaped suddenly upon Thingal. Swiftly, Baron

(01:23:25):
strode before him with a spear, but Karkaroth swept it
aside and felled him, biting at his breast. In that moment,
Huon leaped from the thicket upon the back of the wolf,
and they fell together, fighting bitterly. And no battle of
wolf and hound has been like it. For in the
baying of Huon was heard the voice of the horns
of Ramee and the wrath of the Valar. But in
the hows of Karkaroth was the hate of Morgoth and

(01:23:47):
malice crueler than teeth of steel. And the rocks were
rent by their clamor, and fell from on high and
choked the falls of Eskaldowan. There they fought to the death,
but Thingal gave no heed, for he knelt by Baron,
seeing that he was sorely hurt. Huon, in that hour
slew Carkaroth. But there in the woven, in the woven

(01:24:07):
woods of Doriath, his own doom, long spoken, was fulfilled,
and he was wounded mortally, and the venom of Morgoth
entered into him. Then he came, and, falling beside Baron,
spoke for the third time with words, and he bade
Baron farewell before he died. Baron spoke not but laid
his hand upon the head of the hound. And so
they parted.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
Yes, so so we have we have the death of
Huon just as he's slaying Carkaroth.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
And the prophecy was that basically Huon would not die
until he was faced with the mightiest that's right wolf
in Middle Earth, right, and that just happened here to
be Karkrath.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
They cut open Carkaroth and they find Baron's hand with
a soumrill. They find Baron's hand and cr right. Baron's
hand is incorrupt.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
Even though Corcross has basically been burned.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
Right right, and you know, supposedly his he would have
been digesting right the hand right, so it's it's incorrupt.
And upon finding the hand and allowing Baron to touch
it and think King fingle to receive it. Baron says,
now is the quest achieved, and my doom full rot

(01:25:24):
And he spoke no more. And it says they bore
Baron kamlost, son of Bower. Here upon a beer of branches,
with hu On the wolf founded his side, and night fell.
Ere they returned to Menagroth. At the feet of here Lorne,
the great beach, Luthian met them, walking slow, and some
bore torches beside the bier. There she set her arms about.
Baron kissed him, bidding him await her beyond the western sea,

(01:25:47):
and he looked upon her eyes. Ere the spirit left him,
but the starlight was quenched, and darkness had fallen even
upon Luthian Tanubiel. Thus ended the quest of the soulmer Ill.
But the lay of Lthian, released from bondage, does not end.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
For the spirit of Baron, at her bidding, tarried in
the halls of Mondos, unwilling to leave the world, until
Luthian came to say her last farewell upon the dim
shores of the outer sea. Whence men that die set out,
never to return. But the spirit of Luthian fell down
into darkness, and at the last it fled and her
body lay like a flower that is suddenly cut off

(01:26:22):
and lies for a while and withered on the grass.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
So Baron lost his body, goes to the Halls of Mandos,
which is not normal for the death of a man,
and Luthian, you know, essentially also passes in grief, right,
so is at the end of the story. No, not
the end of the story.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
Can I ask real quick, why did why did Baron
go to the Halls of Mondos? Was it because of
his line his lineage or because of his.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
It's because it's because of her bidding. Oh, that's right,
married in the Halls of Mondos.

Speaker 2 (01:27:01):
Gotcha, Okay, So it's basically yeah, yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
Interesting because it says the Baron, the spirit of Baron
her betting terry in the Halls of Mondos, unwilling to
leave the world until Luthian came to say her last
for a while upon the shores of the Outer Seat.
So it's almost like it's almost like, I'm not sure
if the Halls of Mondos is kind of like like

(01:27:27):
if men go there too briefly and then pass out
into beyond the world where because elves go there, and
that's that's where they that's where they stay.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
It almost sounds like men. But maybe it was just
a special grace she was able to obtain for him
so that she could see him one more time. Right.
But she also passes, and she comes to she comes
to the halls of Mondos. Right, And we have this
beautiful kind of ending to the story. To this particular

(01:27:58):
Chapteran Luthian came to the halls of Mondos, where are
the appointed places of the el Dalier, beyond the mansions
of the west, upon the confines of the world. There
those that wait sit in the shadow of their thought.
But her beauty was more than their beauty, and her
sorrow deeper than their sorrows. And she knelt before Mondos

(01:28:18):
and sang to him.

Speaker 2 (01:28:20):
The song of Luthian. Before Mondos was the song most
fair that ever in words was woven, and the song
most sorrowful, that ever the world shall hear, unchanged, imperishable.
It is sung still in Balanore, beyond the hearing of
the world, and listening the Balar aggrieved. For Luthian wove
two themes of words, of the sorrow of the Eldar

(01:28:41):
and the grief of men. Of the two kindreds that
were made by a Luvitar to dwell in Arda, the
kingdom of Earth, amid the innumerable stars. And as she
knelt before him, her tears fell upon his feet like
rain upon the stones, and Mondos was moved to pity,
who never before was so moved, nor has been since.

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
Therefore he summoned Baron, and even as Luthian had spoken
in the hour of his death, they met again beyond
the western Sea. But Mondos had no power to withhold
the spirits of men that were dead within the confines
of the world after their time of waiting, nor could
he change the fates of the children of a Lubatar.
He went therefore to Manwey, lord of the Valar, who
governed the world under the hand of a Loubatar, and

(01:29:22):
Manwey sought counsel in his inmost thought, where the will
of Aluvatar was revealed.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
These were the choices that he gave to Luthian. Because
of her labors and her sorrow, she should be released
from Mondo's and go to Valemar, there to dwell until
the world's end among the Valar, forgetting all griefs that
her life had known. Thither Baron could not come, for
it was not permitted to the Valar to withhold death
from him, which is the gift of a Louvatar to men.

(01:29:47):
But the other choice was this, that she might return
to Middle Earth and take with her Baron there to
dwell again, but without certitude of life or joy. Then
she would become mortal and subject to his second death,
even as he and ere long she would leave the
world forever, and her beauty become only a memory and song.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
This doom she chose, for saking the blessed Roalm, and
putting aside all claimed to kinship with those that dwell there,
that thus whatever grief might lie in wait, the fates
of Baron and Luthian might be joined, and their paths
lead together beyond the confines of the world. So it
was that alone, of the el Dahliers, she has died, indeed,
and left the world long ago. Yet in her choice
the two kindreds have been joined, and she is the

(01:30:28):
forerunner of many in whom the eld r see. Yet
through all though all the world has changed, the likeness
of Luthian, the loved whom they have lost, So Luthian,
through all of this through her song, through her you know,
through through her song obtains obtains new life for her,

(01:30:48):
for Baron and for herself. It is a life that
will end. Right. So it's not a you know, she
has this choice, right, she has this choice to make
where she can dwell in Valomar, right, she can dwell
in an earthly paradise forgetting all of her grief. But
instead she chooses to be. She chooses to be with.

Speaker 2 (01:31:07):
Baron and without any guarantees.

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
Without any guarantees, right, without any guarantees. So, you know,
and this is the you know, it's it's it's interesting
to me that the you know, she tells, she sings
this song, right, two themes of words, of the sorrow
of the Elder and the grief of men, of the
two kindreds that were made by Leuba Tart to dwell
in Arta, the kingdom of Earth amid the innumerable stars.

(01:31:32):
And it's you know, and so you know, that's that's
why I connect the image of the two trees, right,
you know, the two trees are connected so deeply connected
to this story because you know, this is the symbolism
of the two trees is manifest here, right that the

(01:31:52):
silver tree is the tree of the elves, and the
gold tree is the tree of men. Right, it's this icon.
These are the they are these icons of blending of
the two peoples of a Louvatar, the two children of
a Louvatar, and we will find that they blend into
you know, into into one people and the descendants of

(01:32:13):
Baron and Luthian. Right, So we have a little more
to go in the story of Baron and Luthian in
the next chapter. So yeah, so kind of a little
epilogue if you will. So, yeah, that is the story
of Baron and Luthian. Hope you already read it. Hope
you'll go read it again many more times. And you know,

(01:32:34):
now you know so much more about the Legendarium if
you know this story, and I hope you will pick
up my book Tolkien's Requiem about it. It will hopefully
connect a lot more dots for you as well, and
pick up Tolkenservature, because there's a great chapter in there
on the role that music plays in this story.

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
So yeah, it's just woven throughout the whole time. Absolutely
power of music.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
All right, Well, let's do some shall we do it?
All right? Rock Paper Scissors shoot boom.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
Oh where did mine go? I guess you have to
go first.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
All right, wait for you to listen. Oh, gotta get
up lost it wrote.

Speaker 2 (01:33:22):
A sticky note my post it blew away.

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
All right, Here we go out of the darkness. A
song like the brightest Star the nightingale sings.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
That's really good, like that a lot. I was mind radiant, fair, strong,
Luthian to Nuvill for love for sakes.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
All nice, nice good stuffs for love for sakes. All Yes,
she does, she does, yeah, you know. And one thing
we should mention, of course, is the tie in of
that story to the story of Adragorn and Arwin, right,
because you obviously have Arwin in the Tanubiel role, Luthian
role forsaking her immortality, immortality to be with him, right,

(01:34:18):
to be with go right, so anyway, and both of
them are descendants of Baron and Luthian, by the way, right,
but just different different branches, right, very different branches Agorn
through L. Rosh Arwin through L. Rond Right. So yes,

(01:34:40):
all right, So let's do some listener iku here, all right.
So we got one from Dawn J. S. Morrel in
hand Baron thingle accepted long loved Luthian.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
Hmm, nice, I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
Nice, very well done, Dawn. Next up is Michael w
you read this one.

Speaker 2 (01:35:06):
I'm sure no greater treasure Baron and tanuvo bore than
their son Dior.

Speaker 1 (01:35:14):
Yes, little foretaste of the next chapter. All right, rhymes
and it does rhyme? Yeah, bonus points for rhyming the haiku. Yes,
all right, red Hawk red Hawks sent us two. They
kind of go together, I think, but maybe we'll you'll
maybe I'll do the first three and then you'll do
the second three of song. Doom was Lain doomed to love, Hopeless,

(01:35:37):
Mission somer Ill at Hand.

Speaker 2 (01:35:40):
Car Kerroth brings death, quest in Darkness was fulfilled from
Death Life of Song.

Speaker 1 (01:35:47):
Nice. Nice, well done, very very good, excellent haikup y'all?

Speaker 2 (01:35:51):
Yes they love them.

Speaker 1 (01:35:54):
All right? Well, hey, if you enjoyed this episode, subscribe
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(01:36:17):
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Silmarillion 2025 » Ch 19 » Of Beren and Lúthien

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Silmarillion 2025 » Ch 19 » Of Beren and Lúthien