July 7, 2025 • 44 mins
Our 2025 Silmarillion journey continues with Chapter 20 of Quenta Silmarillion - Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad!After Beren and Lúthien’s excellent adventure, what could possibly come next? Only a great battle brimming with bloodshed and “Unnumbered Tears” of course! First though, Tolkien provides a brief epilogue for Beren and Lúthien, giving them a happy ending, though, in true Tolkienian fashion, leaving Melian with a “grief of loss” heavier than anyone has ever known.
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Enjoy!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey there, fellow travelers. Our twenty twenty five Silmrillion journey
continues with chapter twenty of Quintisilmarillion of the Fifth Battle
near niath arnoidiad After Baron and Luthian's excellent adventure, what
could possibly come next? Only a great battle brimming with
bloodshed and on numbered tears. Of course, first though, Tolkien
provides a brief epilogue for Baron and Luthian, giving them
(00:21):
a happy ending, though in true Tolkienian fashion, leaving Melion
with a grief of loss heavier than anyone has ever known.
Over the next several months, will continue revisiting the entire
thirty episode selm Earlion series that Greta and I recorded
back in twenty twenty two. While you're listening, check out
Silmguide dot com. That's si lmguide dot com for guides
(00:42):
to individual chapters. You can find that link in the
show notes. To support our work here, please visit Patreon
dot com slash Tolkien Road Enjoy. Hey there, fellow travelers.
Welcome to the Tolkien Road. Episode two ninety nine. Greta, Hey, Magavonen,
Meg Mega Wooden, Mike Van, and It's Yelvish for well
(01:05):
met Oh, I like that. Yeah, you never heard that?
You never heard that one before? I wasn't sure so
I probably have.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
But that one in there, you know that's clever. I
like it. Well, well met to you, John.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Well, thank you, thank you. In this episode, we will
be discussing chapter twenty of the Selmer Million of the
Fifth Battle near Niath. Our annoyed? Did an annoyed the ad? An?
It's like annoyed? How hard that is?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I was just gonna say, it's like a fancy way
of saying annoyed.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
No, it's the unnumbered tiers, unnumbered tiers nith our annoyed?
Did I annoyed the ad? I get? I annoyed myself
every time I shorten that? All right, before we get started,
we'd like to give a double a pair of five
to our patrons. Three two wait, get them up there,
(01:55):
all right, here we go three two one nice, very
special Thanks to this episode's executive producers John R. Caitlinft
With Tolkien, Jacob Blockham, John H and Scotchy Bobo.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Thanks guys.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Shout out to our newest patron, seb M, who made
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Thank you so much, seb Yes thank you appreciate it.
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Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, that is awesome.
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(02:48):
you get an even better discount of your patron. So
just remember that, all right, and hey YouTube, hit that
like button. Don't forget to subscribe and let us know
what's on your mind in the comments below. Yeah, so
make sure you pay attention to all the stuff we
got in the show notes and all that good stuff.
Let's dive in, do it. Our quote of the week
(03:08):
comes from this chapter, and it's a good in. It's
a good in. Then who are spoken said? Yet? If
Gondolin stands but a little while, then out of your
house shall come the hope of elves and men. This
I say to you, Lord, with the eyes of death,
though we part here forever, and I shall not look
on your white walls again. From you and from me,
(03:30):
a new star shall arise.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yes, prophetic words.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Indeed prophetic indeed good stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Sad, but with a ray of hope.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, I feel like this quote's good. It just kind
of sets the stage. I feel like for the rest
of the for the last four chapters. Yes, you know,
so you'll see what we mean if you haven't already read.
If you already know, but this is your first time reading,
then you'll see what we mean. All right, let's dive
into chapter twenty. Chapter twenty tells of the fifth grade
Battle of Balian to the most eightful and cataclysmic yet
(04:01):
near niath arnuidead the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. You should
read this. Sorry, that was from last week. We fixed
this disclaimer. As of each episode, we won't well, I mean,
you should read it anyway beforehand if you can, right,
and then listen to our discussion. You know, but you
do you, you do whatever however you want to. As
of each episode, we won't be covering every detail of
this chapter, but instead doing our best to hit the
(04:22):
high points and unpack interesting and important details. If we
miss something, you guys want to discuss more, let us know. Timeline.
So this happens immediately after the events of Baron and Luthian,
the last chapter we read, and it takes place during
the years four sixty nine to four to seventy two
of the Year of the Sun Years of the Sun,
(04:44):
and it begins with an epilogue, which is kind of
strange because you think an epilogue is normally the end
of something.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yes, I've found that odd as.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well, but the prologue of this chapter is in fact
an epilogue. Yeah, so about Baron and Luthian, of all
people's what's this happened with those crazy kids?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Well, let's read about it. Yes, all right, Greta, do
you want to read this?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I'm let you do it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
You want me to do this one?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah? I think so. There's some hard looking words in there,
all right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
It is said that Baron and Luthian returned to the
northern lands of Middle Earth and dwelt together for a
time as living man and woman, and they took up
again their mortal form and Doriath. Those that saw them
were both glad and fearful. And Luthian went to Menegroth
and healed the winter of Thingle with the touch of
her hand. But Melon looked in her eyes and read
the doom that was written there, and turned away, for
(05:35):
she knew that a parting beyond the end of the
world had come between them, And no grief of loss
has been heavier than the grief of Melion the Maya.
And that hour, then Baron and Luthian went forth alone,
fearing together thirst, neither thirst nor hunger. And they passed
beyond the river Gelion into Ossyriand and dwelt there and
told Galen the green isle in the midst of Adurant,
until all tidings of them ceased. The Eldar afterwards called
(05:59):
that country door fear and Iguinar the land of the
dead that live. And there was born at dior Aranel
the beautiful, who was after known as dior E Luchild,
which is thingles Air. No mortal man spoke ever again
with Baron's son of Bara here, and none saw Baron
or Luthian leave the world or marked where it last.
Their bodies lay, so you know, it's nice to get
(06:23):
a word about kind of their fate and understand what
what happened, you know, to them, is they came back.
Let's take a look at the at the map here
so we can understand where they are. So we're kind
of covering up the spot. Actually, let's see if I
can zoom all right, so here's here's our map. Can
(06:44):
I move us over here? There? You go? Move us
all right? Moving over all right? So they are they
go over here to assyriand right, and let's see if
I can zoom in to the spots down here in
this lower right hand corner told Galen, right, So like
Dorias up here, I don't want to zoom in there.
(07:07):
We go all right, Agbond's up here. You know. All
the action of Baron Luthian took place kind of in
this in this general area right that kind of bounds
the area right there, and they weighed down here. So
it's really really off the beaten path, right, really off
the beaten path where they go to live. But we
do know that they that they have this this son Dior,
and he will play a little bit of a role.
(07:31):
So Baron and Luthian really we don't. You know, there's
really not much more said about them. About dior Its actually,
you know, somewhat of an important figure, not not a
hugely important figure, but definitely has his his important pivotal
role to play in the story.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So and he's their only child as.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Far as I know. Yeah, yeah, I don't believe. I
think he's the only one that Tolkien ever mentions. So yeah,
so you know, we hear that it is nice that
they get to come back, and at least, like Meleon
gets to say goodbye to her parents, and you know,
but I don't know that it makes I'm sorry, Luthian
gets to say goodbye to her parents. I don't know
that it makes Meleon really feel much better. But she
(08:09):
does heal the winter of Thingle, which after you, after
we read the rest of of Thingle, what happens with Thingle.
I'm not sure if that's necessarily such a good thing,
but hey, you know what she's supposed to do. It's
her dad, right, you know, she needs to make him
feel better. So all right, yeah, any any more thoughts
on that on that prologue that is an epilogue.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Well, I don't, I don't think so it's it's kind
of you know, it's it seems a little not quite
anti clomatic, but it's like there was you know, I
think I think maybe they peaked early with all the
excitement in their lives, and then they just you.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Know, yeah, chilled. Yeah, that's cool. You're like, well, let's
just take it easy from here on out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I think that's I think they earned it.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
That's right, I do too. All right, let's talk about
really what this chapter is, uh, you know, is in
focus in this chapter, and that is this plot of Methros, right,
this the eldest son of fan or Methros. He decides
that it's time to take the battle to Morgoth. Right,
(09:13):
it's time to really take the battle to him. It says,
he lifted up his heart, perceiving that more Goth was
not unassailable, for the deeds of Baron and Luthian were
sung in many songs throughout Bellerion. Yet more Goth would
destroy them all one by one if they could not
again unite and make new league and common council. And
he began those councils for the raising of the fortunes
of the elder that are called the Union of Methros. Yeah,
(09:38):
so he decides, you know, on this thing, the Union
of Methros. He's basically trying to get going to try
to get as many of the foes of Morgoth and
Bellerion together to do, you know, to do battle against Morgoth.
And they're not just going to kind of go in
one large group. But he's got a plan. He devises
this plan for how he's going to you know, kind
of put as it says, put more Goth between the hammer,
(10:02):
but the forces of more God between the hammer and
the anvil. Right, so you know, this is this is
how things start off in this chapter. They they managed
to get just about everybody together, including dwarves and and
most of the men that reside in baleriond except for
Dorioth Thingle does not want anything to do with him.
(10:24):
And uh nargathron so Orodreth, you know who was the
brother of uh Well, that's actually confusing what he actually is,
but he's one of the Chill He's one of the sons.
He's one of the brothers of Finnrod right, and so
he's not real keen on coming because he's like, I
don't really like those sons, those sons of Fan or anymore, right,
(10:47):
because I don't really want to help them because they
were pretty awful, right to the people that matter to me.
So so he does not come. But but some people
from Nara, from Nargathron do come. And that's an important
thing to note. Uh. So Ordreth won't kind of lead
the official army of of of Nargothron, but some new
choose to go, especially some men choose to go. So
(11:13):
uh And it's it's worth noting that part of the
reason Thingle won't go is because the sons of fan
or like, you better give us that soil Maril. You
got right, we got our oath going, you better give
us that that sil Marl. And He's like, hmm, nope,
I like this thing. I like this thing too much.
It's interesting to read about, you know, you know, about
what he how how he reacted to the Silmrill. Do
(11:38):
you want to maybe read this just a little bit
right here.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
For Methros and his brothers, being constrained by their oath,
had before sent to Thingle and reminded him with haughty
words of their claim, summoning him to yield the Silmarle
or become their enemy. Melon counseled him to surrender it.
But the words of the son of Fanore were proud
and threatening, and Thingle was filled with anger, thinking of
(12:03):
the anguish of Luthian and the blood of Baron, whereby
the jewel had been won despite the malice of Kelligorm
and Cooriffin. And every day that he looked upon the Silmaril,
the more he desired to keep it forever, for such
was its power.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Sounds like it's kind of becoming his precious.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah. So Melion tells him, just get rid of it,
you don't need it anymore, right, And.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
What does he do once again ignores her counsel.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I mean, you married a goddess, my man, like you
gotta like you think you'd listen. You listen to her.
I mean, she's she's kept your kingdom safe with her girdle, right,
you know, her magical girdle for all these years, and
you're just like, eh, I think I'm gonna hang on
to it, idiot, All right, Well.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I mean I will say it's it seems to be
also like he has maybe this emotional attachment to it, right,
because he's he's thinking about like now his daughter's gone
forever right, as is his son in law. And this,
I mean, I'm not saying that his mild was were pure.
I think they were far from it. But I can
(13:12):
I can sympathize with him a little bit being that
this be like, you know, just thinking about the sacrifice
that those people that he cared so dearly about had
made to get it to him. Yeah, but I still
think he should have listened to.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Melia well, undoubtedly, Yeah, un doubtedly he should have listened
to her. I mean I think you know, he you know,
you can find it. He can find excuses and it's like,
you know, the last person I want to give this
too is the son. The son's a fan or right,
especially when they're coming at me like they're hot stuff. Right,
you know, I'm the king, you know, because he's still
(13:47):
you know, he's like, I'm the king, right, I'm the king,
rightful King of Blearia, and you guys are all here
just because I'm letting you be here, right, And but
you know, I mean it's I don't think this there's
a whole lot to say that, you know, like to
sympathize with thingle on this. It's just kind of like
he's just being he's being greedy and and dumb, and
(14:07):
he should have listened to Melion right like when she's
telling him get rid of this thing. It would have
been smart to do that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, it would have been so Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
And he's he's gonna learn that the hard way unfortunately.
All Right, So the plan is that they're going to
basically assault Angban from east and west, and they're going
to have a large army kind of uh kind of
comes up and draws out the army of of Morgoth's armies,
like kind of draw out his force. And then as
(14:39):
once they're drawn out, the plan is for you pull
up our map here. The plan is for Fingan to
lead the forces his forces of that live in Hitlam
over here. They're kind of they're kind of hidden waiting,
and then and then once the armies and work out
are drawn out to kind of like come over on
their flank right and uh and then put them that's
(15:03):
between the hammer and the anvil right like kind of
crush them between this big force on one side and
Fingun's force on the other side. So that's that's the plot.
That's the plan. Uh. The it sounds like nothing could
possibly go wrong, nothing could possibly go wrong with that. Yeah, no,
the best way genius, absolutely genius. I and I and
(15:26):
I'm being a little silly, but I don't I don't
speak to the uh you know, I think there's some
really good videos out there. I'm like, you know, the
kind of assess the like do more of a technical
assessment of the different battles and Tolkien stories, so you
know those are uh go check you know, go find those,
check those out to get more of a thorough analysis
(15:46):
on and how this all works. But that's the that's
the simple idea. That's the simple version of what the
plan is here. So on the day of battle, you
might be wondering, well, what about Gondolin and each it's Gondolin.
It's gonna kinda help with this. And they surprised everybody
by showing up. They surprise everybody by showing up.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So were they not they weren't asked initially, uh by
Maros or were they?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Well know that I think I think they were. I
think they were OK. And they said no, Well, I
don't know that they said anything right because they're Gondolin,
right dori Oth and Nargothronbo said no, but Gondolin is
secret you know. So I'm not sure what they I'm
not sure if they said they were coming or not.
But here it says you want to read well here,
(16:36):
this one has some hard words in it. So I'll
read it for you. Okay, get a little water.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Okay, one of these days I'll get the hard words mastered.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's all good. But now a cry went up, passing
up the wind from the south, from Veil to veil,
and elves and men lifted their voices in wonder and
joy for unsummoned and unlooked for twitter Gan had opened
the leguer of Gondolin, and was come with an army
ten thousand strong, with bright male and long swords and
spears like a forest. Then when Fingon heard Afar, the
(17:07):
great trumpet of Torgan, his brother, the shadow passed and
his heart was uplifted, and he shouted aloud Utulien and
nawre a l dahlier aratanatari utulian are the day has come. Behold,
people of the Eldar and fathers of men, the day
has come. And all those who heard his great voice
(17:28):
echo in the hills answered crying, alta ilome. The night
is passing. So you know this is one of those
things that I'd love to see. You know. It kind
of reminds me a little bit of you know, the
when when the ro Herom show up. Yeah, you know,
it has that kind of feel to it of just
like and I don't think the bat like the thickest
(17:49):
part of the battle isn't yet underway when this happens,
but it's still kind of like, you know, you know,
no one, I don't think anybody really thought Gonolin was
going to show up. They weren't sure, but you know,
no one why would they, Right, They're nestled away in
their little place right there, and here they show up,
and it's like, oh, we're gonna win. Like we're definitely
gonna win now, right, we've got you know, we got
(18:09):
tour Gon showing up to the party. Right, So this
is you know, you can understand how they everybody would
just be so encouraged by this, right like this is
the day, this is the day we beat more Goth,
right that we that we finally put an end to
more Goth's rain. And man, it's just that's why this
is this track, this this chapter is just so it's
(18:32):
so tough. That's why it's un numbered tiers because they
their hearts are lifted up so high at this point
with with tour Gon showing up and then what unfolds
that makes it even worse. Right, It's it's kind of
like you're lifted up really high and then the crash
is even worse.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Right, right, Yeah, it's like you have that little bit
of hope, you know, and then it's just snuffed out.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah. Yeah, So more Goth, you know, I mean, Morg's
is a pretty smart guy. Uh, and he he kind of
you know, he's got spies everywhere. He's always like suspicious.
You know. It's like, uh, what's the saying anyway? There?
They're you know, just pick your favorite saying about like
you know, don't don't try to you know, don't try
(19:18):
to fool a liar, right, or don't try to you know,
don't try to lie to a liar's son, right, you know. Uh,
like more Goth you just can't, you can't pull that
on him. So this whole thing about like the forces
of fing on kind of waiting, you know, waiting at
the ready. You know, More Goth is kind of up
on that, and so he sends he sends his own
(19:39):
force over in that direction to kind of try to
draw them out, and they won't come. They're they're being disciplined, right,
They're they're being they're being disciplined not to not to come.
And and so what they what more God does is
he sends he sends this, you know, uh, ask for parlay. Right,
So we're gonna go and we're gonna talk, you know.
And what do they do? Well, they show up with
(20:01):
a prisoner, and a really awful scene unfolds. So, Greta,
do you want to read this passage?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Sure? Then the captain of Morgoth sent out writers with
tokens of parley, and they rode up before the outworks
of the bahad Ethel. With them they brought Gelmir, son
of Gulin Guilin, that lord of Nargathrond, whom they had
captured in the Balgarok.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And that's more words than I thought.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And they had blinded him. Then the heralds of Angban
showed him forth, crying, we have many more such at home,
but you must make haste if you would find them,
for we shall deal with them all when we return.
Even so, and they hewed off Gelmere's hands and feet,
and his head lasted within sight of the elves, and
(20:49):
left him by ill chance at that place, and the
outwork stood Gwindur of Nargathrand, the brother of Gelmir. Now
his wrath was kindled to madness, and he'd left forth
on horseback, and many riders were with him, and many
riders with him, and they pursued the heralds and slew them,
and drove on deep into the main host. And seeing this,
all the hosts of the Noldor was set on fire.
(21:11):
And Fingon put on his white helm and sounded his trumpets,
and all the hosts of hithelmlupped forth from the hills
in sudden onslaught. The light of the drawing of the
swords of the Noldor was like a fire in a
field of reeds, and so fell and swift was their
onset that almost the designs of Morgoth went astray. Before
the army that he sent westward could be strengthened, it
was swept away, and the banners of Fingon passed over
(21:35):
and were raised before the walls of Enband. Ever, in
the forefront of that battle went Gwydore and the elves
of Northrond, And even now they could not be restrained,
and they burst through the gate and slew the guards
upon the very stairs of Enband, and Morgoth trembled upon
his deep throne, hearing them beat upon his doors. But
they were trapped there and all were slain save Gwindore,
(21:56):
only whom they took alive, for Fingon could out come
to their aid by many secret doors. And then Gorge
more Goth had let issue forth his main host that
he held in waiting, and Fngn was beaten back with
great loss from the walls.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, so the Orcs manage just by fate, it would
it would happen that this guy's this, this poor soul's
brother Gilmir, his brother Gwndor is there and sees this
all and just can't you know it just it breaks,
it breaks his will to hold back. And you know
the rest there is history. So they fail, you know,
(22:33):
more Goth manages to foil the plan of Methros right
to kind of hold back this force until all, you know,
as much of the forces of aangbander on the field
and they can kind of hit him from the you know,
hit him from the side, and you know, and it
turns out more Goth has been holding back a significant
force as well. Right so, and with that we uh
(22:55):
they really the big part of the battle is underway,
and uh and and it actually does not go as
badly as you would think, right so, even even for this,
even for this mistake, this error and discipline, the battle
(23:16):
is actually still going pretty well for you know, for
the forces of Methros, for the union of Methros, right.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
As well as could be expected.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, but it's the forces of Blurrion almost won the
day but for the treachery of men. Yet neither by wolf,
nor by balrog, nor by dragon would Morgoth have achieved
his end. But for the treachery of men. In this
hour the plots of Ulfhang were revealed. Many of the
Easterlings turned and fled, their hearts being filled with lies
(23:42):
and fear. But the sons of Ulfog went over suddenly
to Morgoth and drove in upon the rear of the
sons of fan Or. And in the confusion that they wrought,
they came near to the standard of Methros. They reaped
not the reward that Morgoth promised them. For Maglor slew
Oldor the accursed, the leader in treason, and the sons
of Bor slew el Olfast and ulwarth ere they they
(24:04):
themselves were slain, But new strength of evil men came
up that that Old Oor had summoned and kept hidden
in the eastern hills. And the host of Methros was
assailed now on three sides, and it broke and was
scattered and fled this way. And that yet fate saved
the sons of fan Or, And though all were wounded,
none were slain, for they drew together, and gathering a
remnant of an old Or and the Nalgrim about them,
(24:25):
they hewed away out of the battle and escaped far
away towards Mount Dolmed in the east.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So who is Olfang. He's a he's a man, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
This one of those groups of men that came over
like kind of after the three Houses of the Dine,
and they were, you know, they they were easterlings. Like
there was one group of them that proved to be
good men, and there's another group of them that proved
to be kind of like treasonous and easily manipulated by
more goth right, And so these were those, these were
(24:56):
those men. So we do learn the dwarf, you know,
did a pretty good job fighting on the side of
the Union of Medros on this day, and they were
they were remembered, you know, for that. But you know,
unfortunately it's this, it's this treachery of this particular group
of men that that really, you know, ends causes the Ford,
(25:19):
the Union of Methros to lose the battle. So and
perhaps the the saddest moment is the is the death
of Fingon at the hands of Gothmg the bal Rog.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
But now in the Western Battle, Fingan and Turgon were
sailed by a tide of foes thrice greater than all
the force that was left to them. Goth Mog, lord
of Balrog's high captain of Angbond, was come and he
drove a dark wedge between the Elvin hosts surrounding King
Fingon and thrusting Tourgon and who are in his side,
towards the Fen of Serk. Then he turned upon Fingon.
(25:57):
That was a grim meeting. At last Fingan stood alone,
his guard dead about him, and he fought with Gothmog
until another bowl Rog came behind and cast a thong
of fire about him. Then Gothmog hewed him with his
black axe and a white flame sprang up from the
helm of Fingon as it was cloven. Thus fell the
high King of an Older, and they beat him into
the dust with their maces and his banner blue and silver,
(26:19):
they trod into the mire of his blood. So pretty
brutal death. Yeah, yeah, you know, good for him for
holding his own died.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
He died a hero, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yes. Yeah, So the field, the field was lost. So
uh with this we get we get this scene between
uh Turgon, the King of Gondolin, and then Hoorin and
hohoor Remember who these two men who have actually been
(26:53):
to Gondolin, right, remember that from a couple of chapters
ago that they had that moment where they were they
were rescued by the eagles on the field of battle,
and then they were they were brought to Gondolin and
lived there for a year with Torgon. So we have
the scene between the three of them and tour Gon.
You know, they basically try to convince tour Goon that
(27:13):
he needs to retreat, he needs he needs to go back,
save as much of the forces of Gondolin as he
can and preserve Gondolin, And of course Torgan doesn't want
to do that initially, but who are prevails upon him?
And that's the that's our quote of the week, right.
Torgon answered, not long now can Gondolin be hidden and
being discovered? It must fall? Then who are spoken? Said? Yet,
(27:36):
if it stands but a little while, then out of
your house shall come the hope of elves and men.
This I say to you, Lord, with the eyes of death,
though we part here forever, and I shall not look
on your white walls again. From you and from me
a new star shall arise. Farewell and Magelin, Torgon's sister son,
who stood by, heard these words and did not forget them.
But he said nothing old Megelin all right. So yeah, uh,
(28:00):
so we we get this conversation. So Torganson leaves with
the forces of Gondolin Horan and who are kind of
preserve a small group that stays and kind of guards
their rear as the forces of Gondolin retreat, so they're
able to, you know, hold hold them off just long
enough for the forces of Gondolin to return via their
secret passage and uh and not lead anybody back to
(28:23):
back to Gondolin. Uh, any any forces of more goth
back to back to Gondolin.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I think that was that was good advice.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Part yeah, well, who are unfortunately dies? He falls pierced
with a venomed arrow in his eye, and all the
valiant men of hod Or were slained about him in
a heap, and the Orcs hewed their heads and piled
them as a mount of gold in the sunset. And then,
last of all, it says, Hooran stood alone. Then he
cast aside his shield and wielded an axe two handed.
And it is sung that the axe smoked in the
(28:52):
black blood of the troll guard of Gothmug until it withered.
And each time that he slew hoorin that he's that
he slew Horan cried aurey and tuluva days shall come again.
Seventy times he uttered that cry. But they took him
at last alive by the command of more Goth. For
the Orcs grappled him with their hands, which clung to
him still, though he hewed off their arms, and even their
(29:14):
numbers were renowned until at last he fell buried beneath them.
I'm sorry, even their numbers were renewed, until at last
he fell buried beneath them. Then Gothmok bound him and
dragged him to agbond with Mockery, thus ended near niath Arnoid.
Yet as the sun went down beyond the sea, night
fell in Hitlam and there came a great storm of
wind out of the west. So hurin Is is taken
(29:37):
prisoner despite this just standing you know, just slaying. Orcs
just left her. Did you pick up on that image?
Like so literally he's like hewing off the arms of
the Orcs. Then their arms are just staying, you know,
the hands are just staying grabbing him, and he's he's
just got like all these Orc arms like grabbing onto him,
like just that he's just you know, hewed off. Wow,
(30:00):
what an image.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
It's like a snake, right like you can kind of
you can separate it from its body, but it's still.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, well well yeah, but it's just a really cool
mental image of like all these like arms of the
Orcs like hanging on to him and he's still just
like just slam them.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Finally, if they have to take Goth, Mog has to
take Matters into his own hands and drag him off.
So who are in survives? And you know, we'll we'll
see what happens with him the next chapter of Torn
Tour and Bar is another one of the great tales,
and it concerns his off the offspring of Hoorn right,
and that's where the book The Children of Hohoran gets
its name, which is you know, a book will eventually
(30:39):
do a chapter by chapter discussion of on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
So so the only one that really escapes is is Touring.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Uh yeah, who are dies? Who are in escapes and tor.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Gone taken prisoner escapes?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Who are who are dies? Who has taken prisoner.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
And gone to pretreats to gotten Fondolin Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, yeah. So aftermath so pretty you know, pretty massive battle.
Uh you know, we understand now why it's called on
number tiers. Many many of these members of the Union
of Methros lose their lives and there's a lot of
significant I mean, this is basically kind of like this
is it right, Like this is things Things go about
(31:23):
as badly as they could have and uh and it
gets it gets really ugly. You know. It's like the
last time, you know, with Dagor Bragolac a couple of
chapters ago, right, the battle on Sudden of Sudden Flame.
That was pretty bad, but they were able to kind
of hold you know, hold the forces of Wargoth in
the north and this is like okay, it's kind of
(31:43):
like they're breaking out now, right, So what's the aftermath. Well,
first of all, Hithlam falls. Hithlam is this is this
region you know here to the northwest, and this was
Fingan's you know, Fingan's region over here, and so it's
going to be overrun and it's going to be given
to well, it's it's where the it's where these treacherous men,
(32:09):
the the the people of Olfang end up going. And
it's not really what they want. It's not really what
they wanted, what they were promised by more Goth, but
it's what he gives them, and he kind of makes
them prisoners though. He's like, you're gonna go over there
and you're gonna like it. It's like, that's not what
you promised us, and it's like, I'm more Goth, do
you really think I was gonna keep my promise to you?
Like so, but anyway, they're not good, they're not good people.
So they they go over to Hitlam and they're you know,
(32:31):
it's it's going to be ugly for whoever, you know,
whoever the forces of Fingan. Were are the people of
fing On and and others living in that region, It's
going to be ugly for them.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Now it's basically just elderly, right, women and children, because
everyone else would have been fighting, That's right.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Uh. The sons of fan or Or scattered as leaves
before the wind, so you know, they they've lost their
power and you know, and just being you know, they
don't have any ability to wage this kind of war anymore. Right,
So there's stuck with their oath and and that's about
all they got left at this point, right, That's about
all they got left.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
This is feeling a little bit to me like the
end of endgame, like.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Everything is just like, oh, you mean, uh, Infinity what
Infinity War? Right?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, isn't it called wasn't the one called?
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Oh yeah, endgame? Is the was the one where everything.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
That's right, you're right, Infinity War? Yeah, the one just
prior to endgame.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, yes, So Sun's fan Or scattered his leaves before
the wind. A year later, the Havens are ruined by
an assault from Morgoth. So the Havens being this kind
of region over here, the Phallus. So this is Kurdon's
you know, Keurdon's region over here he sails. He managed
just to escape with some of his ships and some
of his people, and sails down here way south to
(33:44):
the to the isle of Balar, which you can't see.
Right there there you go, is love Balar right there.
And we do learn this little tidbit about Torgn requesting
a little bit of assistance from Curedon. And we have
this scene of the seven swift ships. So Greta, do
you want to read this paragraph here?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
And when Tourgon heard of this, he sent again his
messengers to Syrian's mouths and besought the aid of Kurdon.
The shipwright, at the bidding of Turgon caried and built
seven swift ships. And they sailed out into the west.
But no tidings of them ever came back to Balar,
save of one and the last. The manners of that
ship toiled long in the sea, and returning it last
(34:26):
in despair, they foundered in a great storm within sight
of the coasts of Middle Earth. But one of them
was saved by Olmo from the wrath of Oss, and
the waves bore him up and cast him ashore in Nevrost.
His name was Voronwe and he was one of those
that Tourgan sent forth as messengers from Gondolin.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Is he going to come back into play.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I can't remember grid that he'd be mentioned.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
But we have this, you know that they send these
seven swift ships hoping to find some aid in the west,
but of course they're not able to reach They're not
able to get back to to vaalenor that way, and
so that does not work unfortunately, you know. So but
you know, Olmo does know about all of this, and
(35:15):
so we you know, one would hope, I suppose that
Olmo would speak to his val our brethren and ask
for their assistance for these people. But anyway, we see
that it's not an easy feat to sail into the west.
No easy feat. And and then we have a little
(35:38):
bit more about Whoran's fate. So you know, last week
saw him, he was taken prisoner and more Goth. Basically
it says that more Goth really hates Torgon and he
knows that Torgon and Horan were friends, and so he's
determined to be really awful to Whoran. This is what
(35:59):
it says. Therefore, Hohoin was brought before Morgth. When Morgath
knew that he had the friendship of the King of Gondolin,
but Hoorin defied him and mocked him. Then Morgth cursed
Hooron and Morowin in their offspring and set a doom
upon them of darkness and sorrow. And taking Hoorin from prison,
he set him in a chair of stone upon a
high place of Thanglory dream There he was bound by
(36:21):
the power of more Goth, and more Goths standing beside
him cursed him again, and he said, sit now there
and look out upon the lands where evil and despair
shall come upon those whom thou lovest. Thou hast dared
to mock me and so question the power of Melcor,
master of the fates of Arda. Therefore, with my eyes
thou shalt see, and with my ears thou shalt hear,
And never shalt thou move from this place until all
(36:43):
is fulfilled, until its bitter end. And even so it
came to pass. But it is not said that Hohoran
asked ever of more Goth, either mercy or death before himself,
or for any of his kin. Yeah, so you know
we noticearily milkor I'm the master of the fates of Arda.
He wants he just wants to be in control, right.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yep, that's a pretty terrible punishment. Yeah, I mean to
basically have have have Milkre's eyes and ears. I mean, gosh,
what a dark existence.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, well, and that interesting, Like, you know, it's kind
of like the I guess the idea there is like
you hear, if you hear with his eyes in the ears,
it's going to be you know, you you ever, you know,
the saying of like seeing through somebody else's eyes, like
you know, you know, I finally I finally saw it
from somebody else's perspective, you know, this other person's perspective,
and it like changes kind of how you see things, right,
(37:38):
how you perceive the world. And and that's kind of
the idea here. But it's like a really negative thing, right.
It's like if you could see like through the most
like cynical, hateful eyes possible, right, just like just wants
to twist everything to its worst possible way of viewing it,
you know, and now you've got to see it that way.
Now you've got to hear it that way, right, Just
(37:59):
everything suspicion, everything is about power, you know, just a
really really ugly way of viewing the world.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yep, yeah, yeah, especially even someone who is, you know,
so valiant and heroic, you know, I mean, it just
it's terrible.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah. Well, last note of this chapter is the howth
in how then near Niath, right, which is this hill
of tears, And it's this big mound of the dead
from the battle that they pile up. And it says
by the by the command of Morgoth, the Orcs, with
great labor, gathered all the bodies of those who had
(38:38):
fallen in the great battle, and all their harness and weapons,
and piled them in a great mound in the midst
of Anfauglith. And it was like a hill that could
be seen from afar. How Then, Nindyingen the elves named
it the Hill of Slain, And how then near Niath
the Hill of tears. But grass came there and grew
again long and green upon that hill alone in all
the desert that more Goth made, and no creature of
(38:59):
moreg trod thereafter upon the earth beneath which the swords
of the Eldar and the Dine crumbled into rust. So
in this little you know, big wasteland, you know, the unfouglyth. Right,
we have this just hill of the bodies, and in
their green green, it's the one spot of green of
growth that grass came to it again.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
So so again there's just like a little a little
array of hope, you know, just a little a little
piece of green in the midst of this desert.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yes, maybe little little little just thought that maybe some
good will come, right, that that no matter what happens,
can the good ever be you know, be quenched?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Right right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, So any final thoughts on this chapter, Greta, I
don't think so. All right, all right, all right, let's
do some haiku.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Let's do it all.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Right, Rock, paper scissors?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Shoot is going first?
Speaker 1 (40:02):
You go first?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I go first. Here we go. Mm hmmm due to deceit.
Great was Morgoth's victory. Yet they shall come again?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Nice? Yeah, I feel like I want to memorize. I
need to remember that, like just like what does he say?
He says, Elvis, Yeah, I would ray into luva. I
want to remember that day shall come again. That's what
I say, last thing I say every night before I
go to sleep. I would ray into luva, like just
(40:39):
like like falling asleep like Ala into the I would ray.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
That's a great battle cry.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I know, I love it. I truely, I'm serious. I
feel like I want to remember that. Yeah, just I
would ray into Luva.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
It's good.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Remember that one whenever things feel dark for you. It's
a good one to remember. Day shall come again.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
It's like a more poetic way of saying this too
shall pass? Right, Like, because I like that it says day.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Well, I feel like it's mightier than this too shall pass.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
All right, that's what did I say.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I meant like you.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Said, It's another way of saying I meant to say
a greater.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Saying yeah, then we agree, Yeah, mightier. I just meant
like it's like instead of like this too shall pass,
you know, it's like it's like day shall come again? Right, yep,
all right, right for my haku, let's do it. The
day has arrived. Hearts lifted high victory and I false
friends fly the field.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Oh that's good. Yeah, nice?
Speaker 1 (41:47):
And we have one from Dawn Jay. You read this
one right now?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Sure, ending is the night new King Tourgon more goth feared.
Day shall come again?
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Nice?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
We had the same last lines.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Well that day shall come again. It's very very memorable. Yeah,
it is alay into Luva Aura and to luva. Nice world,
are alight?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Do the elves role there are?
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I think so, I think the you know, it may
vary a little bit, but yeah, alay in Tuluva and
to Luva. Yes, all right, yes, us in US native
English speakers, you know, whenever we learn to roll the ours,
we like want to do it all the time because
because we don't have that normally in our language, you know,
and like you hear like people speaking Spanish and they
(42:33):
just like roll the r like it ain't no thing,
and you're just like, I'm kind of jealous.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, it sounds cool.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Your language sounds cooler than yeah. All right, hey, once
your haiku right on a future episode, each episode will
be uh, we'll be reading those haiku that are sent
to us, So go ahead and get them in a sap.
All right. Hey, everybody, subscriber in reviews on iTunes or
the platform of your choice. If you're a five star
fan of the tokenod, you can really help us out
(42:58):
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All right, and hey, drop us a line. I've always
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some correspondence for too long. It's been a little while, uh,
a little behind, been behind on on the correspondence lately.
(43:19):
But we're nearing the end of We're not too far
off from our the end of our Silmar silmarli and reread.
And that's crazy, you know, I'm thinking we're gonna, you know,
do some do some deep dives on some correspondents, some
really good correspondents. Oh, that would be fun at some point. Yeah,
all right, Well, thanks for listening, everybody. Thanks you to
(43:39):
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(44:27):
We'll talk at you next time. Bye y'all, good bye,
Hey there, fellow travelers. Our twenty twenty five Silmrillion journey
continues with chapter twenty of Quintisilmarillion of the Fifth Battle
near niath arnoidiad After Baron and Luthian's excellent adventure, what
could possibly come next? Only a great battle brimming with
bloodshed and on numbered tears. Of course, first though, Tolkien
provides a brief epilogue for Baron and Luthian, giving them
(00:21):
a happy ending, though in true Tolkienian fashion, leaving Melion
with a grief of loss heavier than anyone has ever known.
Over the next several months, will continue revisiting the entire
thirty episode selm Earlion series that Greta and I recorded
back in twenty twenty two. While you're listening, check out
Silmguide dot com. That's si lmguide dot com for guides
(00:42):
to individual chapters. You can find that link in the
show notes. To support our work here, please visit Patreon
dot com slash Tolkien Road Enjoy. Hey there, fellow travelers.
Welcome to the Tolkien Road. Episode two ninety nine. Greta, Hey, Magavonen,
Meg Mega Wooden, Mike Van, and It's Yelvish for well
(01:05):
met Oh, I like that. Yeah, you never heard that?
You never heard that one before? I wasn't sure so
I probably have.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
But that one in there, you know that's clever. I
like it. Well, well met to you, John.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Well, thank you, thank you. In this episode, we will
be discussing chapter twenty of the Selmer Million of the
Fifth Battle near Niath. Our annoyed? Did an annoyed the ad? An?
It's like annoyed? How hard that is?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I was just gonna say, it's like a fancy way
of saying annoyed.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
No, it's the unnumbered tiers, unnumbered tiers nith our annoyed?
Did I annoyed the ad? I get? I annoyed myself
every time I shorten that? All right, before we get started,
we'd like to give a double a pair of five
to our patrons. Three two wait, get them up there,
(01:55):
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special Thanks to this episode's executive producers John R. Caitlinft
With Tolkien, Jacob Blockham, John H and Scotchy Bobo.
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Shout out to our newest patron, seb M, who made
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what's on your mind in the comments below. Yeah, so
make sure you pay attention to all the stuff we
got in the show notes and all that good stuff.
Let's dive in, do it. Our quote of the week
(03:08):
comes from this chapter, and it's a good in. It's
a good in. Then who are spoken said? Yet? If
Gondolin stands but a little while, then out of your
house shall come the hope of elves and men. This
I say to you, Lord, with the eyes of death,
though we part here forever, and I shall not look
on your white walls again. From you and from me,
(03:30):
a new star shall arise.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yes, prophetic words.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Indeed prophetic indeed good stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Sad, but with a ray of hope.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, I feel like this quote's good. It just kind
of sets the stage. I feel like for the rest
of the for the last four chapters. Yes, you know,
so you'll see what we mean if you haven't already read.
If you already know, but this is your first time reading,
then you'll see what we mean. All right, let's dive
into chapter twenty. Chapter twenty tells of the fifth grade
Battle of Balian to the most eightful and cataclysmic yet
(04:01):
near niath arnuidead the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. You should
read this. Sorry, that was from last week. We fixed
this disclaimer. As of each episode, we won't well, I mean,
you should read it anyway beforehand if you can, right,
and then listen to our discussion. You know, but you
do you, you do whatever however you want to. As
of each episode, we won't be covering every detail of
this chapter, but instead doing our best to hit the
(04:22):
high points and unpack interesting and important details. If we
miss something, you guys want to discuss more, let us know. Timeline.
So this happens immediately after the events of Baron and Luthian,
the last chapter we read, and it takes place during
the years four sixty nine to four to seventy two
of the Year of the Sun Years of the Sun,
(04:44):
and it begins with an epilogue, which is kind of
strange because you think an epilogue is normally the end
of something.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yes, I've found that odd as.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well, but the prologue of this chapter is in fact
an epilogue. Yeah, so about Baron and Luthian, of all
people's what's this happened with those crazy kids?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Well, let's read about it. Yes, all right, Greta, do
you want to read this?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I'm let you do it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
You want me to do this one?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah? I think so. There's some hard looking words in there,
all right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
It is said that Baron and Luthian returned to the
northern lands of Middle Earth and dwelt together for a
time as living man and woman, and they took up
again their mortal form and Doriath. Those that saw them
were both glad and fearful. And Luthian went to Menegroth
and healed the winter of Thingle with the touch of
her hand. But Melon looked in her eyes and read
the doom that was written there, and turned away, for
(05:35):
she knew that a parting beyond the end of the
world had come between them, And no grief of loss
has been heavier than the grief of Melion the Maya.
And that hour, then Baron and Luthian went forth alone,
fearing together thirst, neither thirst nor hunger. And they passed
beyond the river Gelion into Ossyriand and dwelt there and
told Galen the green isle in the midst of Adurant,
until all tidings of them ceased. The Eldar afterwards called
(05:59):
that country door fear and Iguinar the land of the
dead that live. And there was born at dior Aranel
the beautiful, who was after known as dior E Luchild,
which is thingles Air. No mortal man spoke ever again
with Baron's son of Bara here, and none saw Baron
or Luthian leave the world or marked where it last.
Their bodies lay, so you know, it's nice to get
(06:23):
a word about kind of their fate and understand what
what happened, you know, to them, is they came back.
Let's take a look at the at the map here
so we can understand where they are. So we're kind
of covering up the spot. Actually, let's see if I
can zoom all right, so here's here's our map. Can
(06:44):
I move us over here? There? You go? Move us
all right? Moving over all right? So they are they
go over here to assyriand right, and let's see if
I can zoom in to the spots down here in
this lower right hand corner told Galen, right, So like
Dorias up here, I don't want to zoom in there.
(07:07):
We go all right, Agbond's up here. You know. All
the action of Baron Luthian took place kind of in
this in this general area right that kind of bounds
the area right there, and they weighed down here. So
it's really really off the beaten path, right, really off
the beaten path where they go to live. But we
do know that they that they have this this son Dior,
and he will play a little bit of a role.
(07:31):
So Baron and Luthian really we don't. You know, there's
really not much more said about them. About dior Its actually,
you know, somewhat of an important figure, not not a
hugely important figure, but definitely has his his important pivotal
role to play in the story.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So and he's their only child as.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Far as I know. Yeah, yeah, I don't believe. I
think he's the only one that Tolkien ever mentions. So yeah,
so you know, we hear that it is nice that
they get to come back, and at least, like Meleon
gets to say goodbye to her parents, and you know,
but I don't know that it makes I'm sorry, Luthian
gets to say goodbye to her parents. I don't know
that it makes Meleon really feel much better. But she
(08:09):
does heal the winter of Thingle, which after you, after
we read the rest of of Thingle, what happens with Thingle.
I'm not sure if that's necessarily such a good thing,
but hey, you know what she's supposed to do. It's
her dad, right, you know, she needs to make him
feel better. So all right, yeah, any any more thoughts
on that on that prologue that is an epilogue.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Well, I don't, I don't think so it's it's kind
of you know, it's it seems a little not quite
anti clomatic, but it's like there was you know, I
think I think maybe they peaked early with all the
excitement in their lives, and then they just you.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Know, yeah, chilled. Yeah, that's cool. You're like, well, let's
just take it easy from here on out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I think that's I think they earned it.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
That's right, I do too. All right, let's talk about
really what this chapter is, uh, you know, is in
focus in this chapter, and that is this plot of Methros, right,
this the eldest son of fan or Methros. He decides
that it's time to take the battle to Morgoth. Right,
(09:13):
it's time to really take the battle to him. It says,
he lifted up his heart, perceiving that more Goth was
not unassailable, for the deeds of Baron and Luthian were
sung in many songs throughout Bellerion. Yet more Goth would
destroy them all one by one if they could not
again unite and make new league and common council. And
he began those councils for the raising of the fortunes
of the elder that are called the Union of Methros. Yeah,
(09:38):
so he decides, you know, on this thing, the Union
of Methros. He's basically trying to get going to try
to get as many of the foes of Morgoth and
Bellerion together to do, you know, to do battle against Morgoth.
And they're not just going to kind of go in
one large group. But he's got a plan. He devises
this plan for how he's going to you know, kind
of put as it says, put more Goth between the hammer,
(10:02):
but the forces of more God between the hammer and
the anvil. Right, so you know, this is this is
how things start off in this chapter. They they managed
to get just about everybody together, including dwarves and and
most of the men that reside in baleriond except for
Dorioth Thingle does not want anything to do with him.
(10:24):
And uh nargathron so Orodreth, you know who was the
brother of uh Well, that's actually confusing what he actually is,
but he's one of the Chill He's one of the sons.
He's one of the brothers of Finnrod right, and so
he's not real keen on coming because he's like, I
don't really like those sons, those sons of Fan or anymore, right,
(10:47):
because I don't really want to help them because they
were pretty awful, right to the people that matter to me.
So so he does not come. But but some people
from Nara, from Nargathron do come. And that's an important
thing to note. Uh. So Ordreth won't kind of lead
the official army of of of Nargothron, but some new
choose to go, especially some men choose to go. So
(11:13):
uh And it's it's worth noting that part of the
reason Thingle won't go is because the sons of fan
or like, you better give us that soil Maril. You
got right, we got our oath going, you better give
us that that sil Marl. And He's like, hmm, nope,
I like this thing. I like this thing too much.
It's interesting to read about, you know, you know, about
what he how how he reacted to the Silmrill. Do
(11:38):
you want to maybe read this just a little bit
right here.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
For Methros and his brothers, being constrained by their oath,
had before sent to Thingle and reminded him with haughty
words of their claim, summoning him to yield the Silmarle
or become their enemy. Melon counseled him to surrender it.
But the words of the son of Fanore were proud
and threatening, and Thingle was filled with anger, thinking of
(12:03):
the anguish of Luthian and the blood of Baron, whereby
the jewel had been won despite the malice of Kelligorm
and Cooriffin. And every day that he looked upon the Silmaril,
the more he desired to keep it forever, for such
was its power.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Sounds like it's kind of becoming his precious.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah. So Melion tells him, just get rid of it,
you don't need it anymore, right, And.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
What does he do once again ignores her counsel.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I mean, you married a goddess, my man, like you
gotta like you think you'd listen. You listen to her.
I mean, she's she's kept your kingdom safe with her girdle, right,
you know, her magical girdle for all these years, and
you're just like, eh, I think I'm gonna hang on
to it, idiot, All right, Well.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I mean I will say it's it seems to be
also like he has maybe this emotional attachment to it, right,
because he's he's thinking about like now his daughter's gone
forever right, as is his son in law. And this,
I mean, I'm not saying that his mild was were pure.
I think they were far from it. But I can
(13:12):
I can sympathize with him a little bit being that
this be like, you know, just thinking about the sacrifice
that those people that he cared so dearly about had
made to get it to him. Yeah, but I still
think he should have listened to.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Melia well, undoubtedly, Yeah, un doubtedly he should have listened
to her. I mean I think you know, he you know,
you can find it. He can find excuses and it's like,
you know, the last person I want to give this
too is the son. The son's a fan or right,
especially when they're coming at me like they're hot stuff. Right,
you know, I'm the king, you know, because he's still
(13:47):
you know, he's like, I'm the king, right, I'm the king,
rightful King of Blearia, and you guys are all here
just because I'm letting you be here, right, And but
you know, I mean it's I don't think this there's
a whole lot to say that, you know, like to
sympathize with thingle on this. It's just kind of like
he's just being he's being greedy and and dumb, and
(14:07):
he should have listened to Melion right like when she's
telling him get rid of this thing. It would have
been smart to do that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, it would have been so Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
And he's he's gonna learn that the hard way unfortunately.
All Right, So the plan is that they're going to
basically assault Angban from east and west, and they're going
to have a large army kind of uh kind of
comes up and draws out the army of of Morgoth's armies,
like kind of draw out his force. And then as
(14:39):
once they're drawn out, the plan is for you pull
up our map here. The plan is for Fingan to
lead the forces his forces of that live in Hitlam
over here. They're kind of they're kind of hidden waiting,
and then and then once the armies and work out
are drawn out to kind of like come over on
their flank right and uh and then put them that's
(15:03):
between the hammer and the anvil right like kind of
crush them between this big force on one side and
Fingun's force on the other side. So that's that's the plot.
That's the plan. Uh. The it sounds like nothing could
possibly go wrong, nothing could possibly go wrong with that. Yeah, no,
the best way genius, absolutely genius. I and I and
(15:26):
I'm being a little silly, but I don't I don't
speak to the uh you know, I think there's some
really good videos out there. I'm like, you know, the
kind of assess the like do more of a technical
assessment of the different battles and Tolkien stories, so you
know those are uh go check you know, go find those,
check those out to get more of a thorough analysis
(15:46):
on and how this all works. But that's the that's
the simple idea. That's the simple version of what the
plan is here. So on the day of battle, you
might be wondering, well, what about Gondolin and each it's Gondolin.
It's gonna kinda help with this. And they surprised everybody
by showing up. They surprise everybody by showing up.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So were they not they weren't asked initially, uh by
Maros or were they?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Well know that I think I think they were. I
think they were OK. And they said no, Well, I
don't know that they said anything right because they're Gondolin,
right dori Oth and Nargothronbo said no, but Gondolin is
secret you know. So I'm not sure what they I'm
not sure if they said they were coming or not.
But here it says you want to read well here,
(16:36):
this one has some hard words in it. So I'll
read it for you. Okay, get a little water.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Okay, one of these days I'll get the hard words mastered.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's all good. But now a cry went up, passing
up the wind from the south, from Veil to veil,
and elves and men lifted their voices in wonder and
joy for unsummoned and unlooked for twitter Gan had opened
the leguer of Gondolin, and was come with an army
ten thousand strong, with bright male and long swords and
spears like a forest. Then when Fingon heard Afar, the
(17:07):
great trumpet of Torgan, his brother, the shadow passed and
his heart was uplifted, and he shouted aloud Utulien and
nawre a l dahlier aratanatari utulian are the day has come. Behold,
people of the Eldar and fathers of men, the day
has come. And all those who heard his great voice
(17:28):
echo in the hills answered crying, alta ilome. The night
is passing. So you know this is one of those
things that I'd love to see. You know. It kind
of reminds me a little bit of you know, the
when when the ro Herom show up. Yeah, you know,
it has that kind of feel to it of just
like and I don't think the bat like the thickest
(17:49):
part of the battle isn't yet underway when this happens,
but it's still kind of like, you know, you know,
no one, I don't think anybody really thought Gonolin was
going to show up. They weren't sure, but you know,
no one why would they, Right, They're nestled away in
their little place right there, and here they show up,
and it's like, oh, we're gonna win. Like we're definitely
gonna win now, right, we've got you know, we got
(18:09):
tour Gon showing up to the party. Right, So this
is you know, you can understand how they everybody would
just be so encouraged by this, right like this is
the day, this is the day we beat more Goth,
right that we that we finally put an end to
more Goth's rain. And man, it's just that's why this
is this track, this this chapter is just so it's
(18:32):
so tough. That's why it's un numbered tiers because they
their hearts are lifted up so high at this point
with with tour Gon showing up and then what unfolds
that makes it even worse. Right, It's it's kind of
like you're lifted up really high and then the crash
is even worse.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Right, right, Yeah, it's like you have that little bit
of hope, you know, and then it's just snuffed out.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah. Yeah, So more Goth, you know, I mean, Morg's
is a pretty smart guy. Uh, and he he kind of
you know, he's got spies everywhere. He's always like suspicious.
You know. It's like, uh, what's the saying anyway? There?
They're you know, just pick your favorite saying about like
you know, don't don't try to you know, don't try
(19:18):
to fool a liar, right, or don't try to you know,
don't try to lie to a liar's son, right, you know. Uh,
like more Goth you just can't, you can't pull that
on him. So this whole thing about like the forces
of fing on kind of waiting, you know, waiting at
the ready. You know, More Goth is kind of up
on that, and so he sends he sends his own
(19:39):
force over in that direction to kind of try to
draw them out, and they won't come. They're they're being disciplined, right,
They're they're being they're being disciplined not to not to come.
And and so what they what more God does is
he sends he sends this, you know, uh, ask for parlay. Right,
So we're gonna go and we're gonna talk, you know.
And what do they do? Well, they show up with
(20:01):
a prisoner, and a really awful scene unfolds. So, Greta,
do you want to read this passage?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Sure? Then the captain of Morgoth sent out writers with
tokens of parley, and they rode up before the outworks
of the bahad Ethel. With them they brought Gelmir, son
of Gulin Guilin, that lord of Nargathrond, whom they had
captured in the Balgarok.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And that's more words than I thought.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And they had blinded him. Then the heralds of Angban
showed him forth, crying, we have many more such at home,
but you must make haste if you would find them,
for we shall deal with them all when we return.
Even so, and they hewed off Gelmere's hands and feet,
and his head lasted within sight of the elves, and
(20:49):
left him by ill chance at that place, and the
outwork stood Gwindur of Nargathrand, the brother of Gelmir. Now
his wrath was kindled to madness, and he'd left forth
on horseback, and many riders were with him, and many
riders with him, and they pursued the heralds and slew them,
and drove on deep into the main host. And seeing this,
all the hosts of the Noldor was set on fire.
(21:11):
And Fingon put on his white helm and sounded his trumpets,
and all the hosts of hithelmlupped forth from the hills
in sudden onslaught. The light of the drawing of the
swords of the Noldor was like a fire in a
field of reeds, and so fell and swift was their
onset that almost the designs of Morgoth went astray. Before
the army that he sent westward could be strengthened, it
was swept away, and the banners of Fingon passed over
(21:35):
and were raised before the walls of Enband. Ever, in
the forefront of that battle went Gwydore and the elves
of Northrond, And even now they could not be restrained,
and they burst through the gate and slew the guards
upon the very stairs of Enband, and Morgoth trembled upon
his deep throne, hearing them beat upon his doors. But
they were trapped there and all were slain save Gwindore,
(21:56):
only whom they took alive, for Fingon could out come
to their aid by many secret doors. And then Gorge
more Goth had let issue forth his main host that
he held in waiting, and Fngn was beaten back with
great loss from the walls.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, so the Orcs manage just by fate, it would
it would happen that this guy's this, this poor soul's
brother Gilmir, his brother Gwndor is there and sees this
all and just can't you know it just it breaks,
it breaks his will to hold back. And you know
the rest there is history. So they fail, you know,
(22:33):
more Goth manages to foil the plan of Methros right
to kind of hold back this force until all, you know,
as much of the forces of aangbander on the field
and they can kind of hit him from the you know,
hit him from the side, and you know, and it
turns out more Goth has been holding back a significant
force as well. Right so, and with that we uh
(22:55):
they really the big part of the battle is underway,
and uh and and it actually does not go as
badly as you would think, right so, even even for this,
even for this mistake, this error and discipline, the battle
(23:16):
is actually still going pretty well for you know, for
the forces of Methros, for the union of Methros, right.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
As well as could be expected.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, but it's the forces of Blurrion almost won the
day but for the treachery of men. Yet neither by wolf,
nor by balrog, nor by dragon would Morgoth have achieved
his end. But for the treachery of men. In this
hour the plots of Ulfhang were revealed. Many of the
Easterlings turned and fled, their hearts being filled with lies
(23:42):
and fear. But the sons of Ulfog went over suddenly
to Morgoth and drove in upon the rear of the
sons of fan Or. And in the confusion that they wrought,
they came near to the standard of Methros. They reaped
not the reward that Morgoth promised them. For Maglor slew
Oldor the accursed, the leader in treason, and the sons
of Bor slew el Olfast and ulwarth ere they they
(24:04):
themselves were slain, But new strength of evil men came
up that that Old Oor had summoned and kept hidden
in the eastern hills. And the host of Methros was
assailed now on three sides, and it broke and was
scattered and fled this way. And that yet fate saved
the sons of fan Or, And though all were wounded,
none were slain, for they drew together, and gathering a
remnant of an old Or and the Nalgrim about them,
(24:25):
they hewed away out of the battle and escaped far
away towards Mount Dolmed in the east.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So who is Olfang. He's a he's a man, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
This one of those groups of men that came over
like kind of after the three Houses of the Dine,
and they were, you know, they they were easterlings. Like
there was one group of them that proved to be
good men, and there's another group of them that proved
to be kind of like treasonous and easily manipulated by
more goth right, And so these were those, these were
(24:56):
those men. So we do learn the dwarf, you know,
did a pretty good job fighting on the side of
the Union of Medros on this day, and they were
they were remembered, you know, for that. But you know,
unfortunately it's this, it's this treachery of this particular group
of men that that really, you know, ends causes the Ford,
(25:19):
the Union of Methros to lose the battle. So and
perhaps the the saddest moment is the is the death
of Fingon at the hands of Gothmg the bal Rog.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
But now in the Western Battle, Fingan and Turgon were
sailed by a tide of foes thrice greater than all
the force that was left to them. Goth Mog, lord
of Balrog's high captain of Angbond, was come and he
drove a dark wedge between the Elvin hosts surrounding King
Fingon and thrusting Tourgon and who are in his side,
towards the Fen of Serk. Then he turned upon Fingon.
(25:57):
That was a grim meeting. At last Fingan stood alone,
his guard dead about him, and he fought with Gothmog
until another bowl Rog came behind and cast a thong
of fire about him. Then Gothmog hewed him with his
black axe and a white flame sprang up from the
helm of Fingon as it was cloven. Thus fell the
high King of an Older, and they beat him into
the dust with their maces and his banner blue and silver,
(26:19):
they trod into the mire of his blood. So pretty
brutal death. Yeah, yeah, you know, good for him for
holding his own died.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
He died a hero, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yes. Yeah, So the field, the field was lost. So
uh with this we get we get this scene between
uh Turgon, the King of Gondolin, and then Hoorin and
hohoor Remember who these two men who have actually been
(26:53):
to Gondolin, right, remember that from a couple of chapters
ago that they had that moment where they were they
were rescued by the eagles on the field of battle,
and then they were they were brought to Gondolin and
lived there for a year with Torgon. So we have
the scene between the three of them and tour Gon.
You know, they basically try to convince tour Goon that
(27:13):
he needs to retreat, he needs he needs to go back,
save as much of the forces of Gondolin as he
can and preserve Gondolin, And of course Torgan doesn't want
to do that initially, but who are prevails upon him?
And that's the that's our quote of the week, right.
Torgon answered, not long now can Gondolin be hidden and
being discovered? It must fall? Then who are spoken? Said? Yet,
(27:36):
if it stands but a little while, then out of
your house shall come the hope of elves and men.
This I say to you, Lord, with the eyes of death,
though we part here forever, and I shall not look
on your white walls again. From you and from me
a new star shall arise. Farewell and Magelin, Torgon's sister son,
who stood by, heard these words and did not forget them.
But he said nothing old Megelin all right. So yeah, uh,
(28:00):
so we we get this conversation. So Torganson leaves with
the forces of Gondolin Horan and who are kind of
preserve a small group that stays and kind of guards
their rear as the forces of Gondolin retreat, so they're
able to, you know, hold hold them off just long
enough for the forces of Gondolin to return via their
secret passage and uh and not lead anybody back to
(28:23):
back to Gondolin. Uh, any any forces of more goth
back to back to Gondolin.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I think that was that was good advice.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Part yeah, well, who are unfortunately dies? He falls pierced
with a venomed arrow in his eye, and all the
valiant men of hod Or were slained about him in
a heap, and the Orcs hewed their heads and piled
them as a mount of gold in the sunset. And then,
last of all, it says, Hooran stood alone. Then he
cast aside his shield and wielded an axe two handed.
And it is sung that the axe smoked in the
(28:52):
black blood of the troll guard of Gothmug until it withered.
And each time that he slew hoorin that he's that
he slew Horan cried aurey and tuluva days shall come again.
Seventy times he uttered that cry. But they took him
at last alive by the command of more Goth. For
the Orcs grappled him with their hands, which clung to
him still, though he hewed off their arms, and even their
(29:14):
numbers were renowned until at last he fell buried beneath them.
I'm sorry, even their numbers were renewed, until at last
he fell buried beneath them. Then Gothmok bound him and
dragged him to agbond with Mockery, thus ended near niath Arnoid.
Yet as the sun went down beyond the sea, night
fell in Hitlam and there came a great storm of
wind out of the west. So hurin Is is taken
(29:37):
prisoner despite this just standing you know, just slaying. Orcs
just left her. Did you pick up on that image?
Like so literally he's like hewing off the arms of
the Orcs. Then their arms are just staying, you know,
the hands are just staying grabbing him, and he's he's
just got like all these Orc arms like grabbing onto him,
like just that he's just you know, hewed off. Wow,
(30:00):
what an image.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
It's like a snake, right like you can kind of
you can separate it from its body, but it's still.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, well well yeah, but it's just a really cool
mental image of like all these like arms of the
Orcs like hanging on to him and he's still just
like just slam them.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Finally, if they have to take Goth, Mog has to
take Matters into his own hands and drag him off.
So who are in survives? And you know, we'll we'll
see what happens with him the next chapter of Torn
Tour and Bar is another one of the great tales,
and it concerns his off the offspring of Hoorn right,
and that's where the book The Children of Hohoran gets
its name, which is you know, a book will eventually
(30:39):
do a chapter by chapter discussion of on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
So so the only one that really escapes is is Touring.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Uh yeah, who are dies? Who are in escapes and tor.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Gone taken prisoner escapes?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Who are who are dies? Who has taken prisoner.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
And gone to pretreats to gotten Fondolin Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, yeah. So aftermath so pretty you know, pretty massive battle.
Uh you know, we understand now why it's called on
number tiers. Many many of these members of the Union
of Methros lose their lives and there's a lot of
significant I mean, this is basically kind of like this
is it right, Like this is things Things go about
(31:23):
as badly as they could have and uh and it
gets it gets really ugly. You know. It's like the
last time, you know, with Dagor Bragolac a couple of
chapters ago, right, the battle on Sudden of Sudden Flame.
That was pretty bad, but they were able to kind
of hold you know, hold the forces of Wargoth in
the north and this is like okay, it's kind of
(31:43):
like they're breaking out now, right, So what's the aftermath. Well,
first of all, Hithlam falls. Hithlam is this is this
region you know here to the northwest, and this was
Fingan's you know, Fingan's region over here, and so it's
going to be overrun and it's going to be given
to well, it's it's where the it's where these treacherous men,
(32:09):
the the the people of Olfang end up going. And
it's not really what they want. It's not really what
they wanted, what they were promised by more Goth, but
it's what he gives them, and he kind of makes
them prisoners though. He's like, you're gonna go over there
and you're gonna like it. It's like, that's not what
you promised us, and it's like, I'm more Goth, do
you really think I was gonna keep my promise to you?
Like so, but anyway, they're not good, they're not good people.
So they they go over to Hitlam and they're you know,
(32:31):
it's it's going to be ugly for whoever, you know,
whoever the forces of Fingan. Were are the people of
fing On and and others living in that region, It's
going to be ugly for them.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Now it's basically just elderly, right, women and children, because
everyone else would have been fighting, That's right.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Uh. The sons of fan or Or scattered as leaves
before the wind, so you know, they they've lost their
power and you know, and just being you know, they
don't have any ability to wage this kind of war anymore. Right,
So there's stuck with their oath and and that's about
all they got left at this point, right, That's about
all they got left.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
This is feeling a little bit to me like the
end of endgame, like.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Everything is just like, oh, you mean, uh, Infinity what
Infinity War? Right?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, isn't it called wasn't the one called?
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Oh yeah, endgame? Is the was the one where everything.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
That's right, you're right, Infinity War? Yeah, the one just
prior to endgame.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, yes, So Sun's fan Or scattered his leaves before
the wind. A year later, the Havens are ruined by
an assault from Morgoth. So the Havens being this kind
of region over here, the Phallus. So this is Kurdon's
you know, Keurdon's region over here he sails. He managed
just to escape with some of his ships and some
of his people, and sails down here way south to
(33:44):
the to the isle of Balar, which you can't see.
Right there there you go, is love Balar right there.
And we do learn this little tidbit about Torgn requesting
a little bit of assistance from Curedon. And we have
this scene of the seven swift ships. So Greta, do
you want to read this paragraph here?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
And when Tourgon heard of this, he sent again his
messengers to Syrian's mouths and besought the aid of Kurdon.
The shipwright, at the bidding of Turgon caried and built
seven swift ships. And they sailed out into the west.
But no tidings of them ever came back to Balar,
save of one and the last. The manners of that
ship toiled long in the sea, and returning it last
(34:26):
in despair, they foundered in a great storm within sight
of the coasts of Middle Earth. But one of them
was saved by Olmo from the wrath of Oss, and
the waves bore him up and cast him ashore in Nevrost.
His name was Voronwe and he was one of those
that Tourgan sent forth as messengers from Gondolin.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Is he going to come back into play.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I can't remember grid that he'd be mentioned.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
But we have this, you know that they send these
seven swift ships hoping to find some aid in the west,
but of course they're not able to reach They're not
able to get back to to vaalenor that way, and
so that does not work unfortunately, you know. So but
you know, Olmo does know about all of this, and
(35:15):
so we you know, one would hope, I suppose that
Olmo would speak to his val our brethren and ask
for their assistance for these people. But anyway, we see
that it's not an easy feat to sail into the west.
No easy feat. And and then we have a little
(35:38):
bit more about Whoran's fate. So you know, last week
saw him, he was taken prisoner and more Goth. Basically
it says that more Goth really hates Torgon and he
knows that Torgon and Horan were friends, and so he's
determined to be really awful to Whoran. This is what
(35:59):
it says. Therefore, Hohoin was brought before Morgth. When Morgath
knew that he had the friendship of the King of Gondolin,
but Hoorin defied him and mocked him. Then Morgth cursed
Hooron and Morowin in their offspring and set a doom
upon them of darkness and sorrow. And taking Hoorin from prison,
he set him in a chair of stone upon a
high place of Thanglory dream There he was bound by
(36:21):
the power of more Goth, and more Goths standing beside
him cursed him again, and he said, sit now there
and look out upon the lands where evil and despair
shall come upon those whom thou lovest. Thou hast dared
to mock me and so question the power of Melcor,
master of the fates of Arda. Therefore, with my eyes
thou shalt see, and with my ears thou shalt hear,
And never shalt thou move from this place until all
(36:43):
is fulfilled, until its bitter end. And even so it
came to pass. But it is not said that Hohoran
asked ever of more Goth, either mercy or death before himself,
or for any of his kin. Yeah, so you know
we noticearily milkor I'm the master of the fates of Arda.
He wants he just wants to be in control, right.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yep, that's a pretty terrible punishment. Yeah, I mean to
basically have have have Milkre's eyes and ears. I mean, gosh,
what a dark existence.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, well, and that interesting, Like, you know, it's kind
of like the I guess the idea there is like
you hear, if you hear with his eyes in the ears,
it's going to be you know, you you ever, you know,
the saying of like seeing through somebody else's eyes, like
you know, you know, I finally I finally saw it
from somebody else's perspective, you know, this other person's perspective,
and it like changes kind of how you see things, right,
(37:38):
how you perceive the world. And and that's kind of
the idea here. But it's like a really negative thing, right.
It's like if you could see like through the most
like cynical, hateful eyes possible, right, just like just wants
to twist everything to its worst possible way of viewing it,
you know, and now you've got to see it that way.
Now you've got to hear it that way, right, Just
(37:59):
everything suspicion, everything is about power, you know, just a
really really ugly way of viewing the world.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yep, yeah, yeah, especially even someone who is, you know,
so valiant and heroic, you know, I mean, it just
it's terrible.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah. Well, last note of this chapter is the howth
in how then near Niath, right, which is this hill
of tears, And it's this big mound of the dead
from the battle that they pile up. And it says
by the by the command of Morgoth, the Orcs, with
great labor, gathered all the bodies of those who had
(38:38):
fallen in the great battle, and all their harness and weapons,
and piled them in a great mound in the midst
of Anfauglith. And it was like a hill that could
be seen from afar. How Then, Nindyingen the elves named
it the Hill of Slain, And how then near Niath
the Hill of tears. But grass came there and grew
again long and green upon that hill alone in all
the desert that more Goth made, and no creature of
(38:59):
moreg trod thereafter upon the earth beneath which the swords
of the Eldar and the Dine crumbled into rust. So
in this little you know, big wasteland, you know, the unfouglyth. Right,
we have this just hill of the bodies, and in
their green green, it's the one spot of green of
growth that grass came to it again.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
So so again there's just like a little a little
array of hope, you know, just a little a little
piece of green in the midst of this desert.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yes, maybe little little little just thought that maybe some
good will come, right, that that no matter what happens,
can the good ever be you know, be quenched?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Right right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, So any final thoughts on this chapter, Greta, I
don't think so. All right, all right, all right, let's
do some haiku.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Let's do it all.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Right, Rock, paper scissors?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Shoot is going first?
Speaker 1 (40:02):
You go first?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I go first. Here we go. Mm hmmm due to deceit.
Great was Morgoth's victory. Yet they shall come again?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Nice? Yeah, I feel like I want to memorize. I
need to remember that, like just like what does he say?
He says, Elvis, Yeah, I would ray into luva. I
want to remember that day shall come again. That's what
I say, last thing I say every night before I
go to sleep. I would ray into luva, like just
(40:39):
like like falling asleep like Ala into the I would ray.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
That's a great battle cry.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I know, I love it. I truely, I'm serious. I
feel like I want to remember that. Yeah, just I
would ray into Luva.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
It's good.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Remember that one whenever things feel dark for you. It's
a good one to remember. Day shall come again.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
It's like a more poetic way of saying this too
shall pass? Right, Like, because I like that it says day.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Well, I feel like it's mightier than this too shall pass.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
All right, that's what did I say.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I meant like you.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Said, It's another way of saying I meant to say
a greater.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Saying yeah, then we agree, Yeah, mightier. I just meant
like it's like instead of like this too shall pass,
you know, it's like it's like day shall come again? Right, yep,
all right, right for my haku, let's do it. The
day has arrived. Hearts lifted high victory and I false
friends fly the field.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Oh that's good. Yeah, nice?
Speaker 1 (41:47):
And we have one from Dawn Jay. You read this
one right now?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Sure, ending is the night new King Tourgon more goth feared.
Day shall come again?
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Nice?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
We had the same last lines.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Well that day shall come again. It's very very memorable. Yeah,
it is alay into Luva Aura and to luva. Nice world,
are alight?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Do the elves role there are?
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I think so, I think the you know, it may
vary a little bit, but yeah, alay in Tuluva and
to Luva. Yes, all right, yes, us in US native
English speakers, you know, whenever we learn to roll the ours,
we like want to do it all the time because
because we don't have that normally in our language, you know,
and like you hear like people speaking Spanish and they
(42:33):
just like roll the r like it ain't no thing,
and you're just like, I'm kind of jealous.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, it sounds cool.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Your language sounds cooler than yeah. All right, hey, once
your haiku right on a future episode, each episode will
be uh, we'll be reading those haiku that are sent
to us, So go ahead and get them in a sap.
All right. Hey, everybody, subscriber in reviews on iTunes or
the platform of your choice. If you're a five star
fan of the tokenod, you can really help us out
(42:58):
by heading over to iTunes your preferred source for the
show and dropping us our rating and review. When you
do that, it helps get the word out about the
Tolkien Road, which helps us to keep on everring on.
All right, and hey, drop us a line. I've always
lived that correspondence. We're gonna we're gonna catch up on
some correspondence for too long. It's been a little while, uh,
a little behind, been behind on on the correspondence lately.
(43:19):
But we're nearing the end of We're not too far
off from our the end of our Silmar silmarli and reread.
And that's crazy, you know, I'm thinking we're gonna, you know,
do some do some deep dives on some correspondents, some
really good correspondents. Oh, that would be fun at some point. Yeah,
all right, Well, thanks for listening, everybody. Thanks you to
(43:39):
our amazing patrons, especially the following. John R.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Caitlin of t with Tolkien, Jacob Lockham, John H. Scotch
You Bobo is Anonymous, Andrew T. Red Hawk, Shannones Bryano,
Emilio p Zeke, James A. James L.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Chris L. Check f ozyve Ish of The Hammer, Teresa C.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
David of Pines with.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Jack Jonathan D. Eric B. Johanna T.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Mike M.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Robert H.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Paul, Julia Wartie, Matthew W, Joe Bagelman, Chris K, Jacob Bess, Don.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Jay, Thanks guys, as well as those celebrating their patron
anniversary in July of twenty twenty two, Warty, Matthew W. Viten,
David of Pines with Jack and Chris l awesome. Thank
you all, Thanks everybody, appreciate you Patron so much, and
thanks everybody for listening. We will talk at you next
and watching, yes where we are listen to your watching.
(44:27):
We'll talk at you next time. Bye y'all, good bye,
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