July 28, 2025 • 40 mins
Our 2025 Silmarillion journey continues with Chapter 23 of Quenta Silmarillion - Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin.
With Doriath having fallen in Chapter 22, the remaining Elvish enclaves of Beleriand face increasing peril, and not even Gondolin can remain hidden from the forces of Morgoth forever!
Silm Guide Link: https://www.tolkienroad.com/silmguide/sg26/
To support our work here, please visit Patreon.com/TolkienRoad.
Also, I've just launched a new Substack here: https://tolkienroad.substack.com/
Enjoy!
OTHER LINKS:
Video of this episode: https://youtu.be/Ynw-JeVnhRk
Watch AD-FREE: https://www.patreon.com/posts/afv-0303-2025-ch-135020472
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Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-tolkien-road--5222755/support.
With Doriath having fallen in Chapter 22, the remaining Elvish enclaves of Beleriand face increasing peril, and not even Gondolin can remain hidden from the forces of Morgoth forever!
Silm Guide Link: https://www.tolkienroad.com/silmguide/sg26/
To support our work here, please visit Patreon.com/TolkienRoad.
Also, I've just launched a new Substack here: https://tolkienroad.substack.com/
Enjoy!
OTHER LINKS:
Video of this episode: https://youtu.be/Ynw-JeVnhRk
Watch AD-FREE: https://www.patreon.com/posts/afv-0303-2025-ch-135020472
Listen AD-FREE: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71256775
Buy Tolkien Road merch @ True Myths Press
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-tolkien-road--5222755/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, fellow travelers. Our twenty twenty five Silm Million
journey continues with chapter twenty three of Quintusilmarillion of Tour
and the Fall of Gondolin. With Doriath having fallen in
chapter twenty two, the remaining elvis enclaves of Bellerion face
increasing peril, and not even Gondolin can remain hidden from
the forces of Morgoth forever. While you're listening, check out
(00:24):
Silmguide dot com. That's si lmguide dot com for guides
to individual chapters. You can find that link in the
show notes. Who support our work here please visit Patreon
dot com slash Tolkien Road Enjoy. Hey there, fellow travelers,
Welcome to the Tolkien Road, Episode three oh three. Greta,
how we doing?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
How are we doing? It's Monday? Yeah, Mondays aren't fun, Yeah, bab,
I don't know other than that, yeah are you?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah? Well, so you may not know this, but I did.
I did tell like all our patrons that you know,
the episode was delayed because we were supposed to do
it Friday but then had something totally just a huge
bummer of walking in me walking into the house on
Friday afternoon, right before we're going to record, and our
sweet little boots the cat had unfortunately left this good
(01:19):
earth so rather suddenly. So you know, it's just a bummer.
It was just a bummer kind of you know, kind
of smarted, you know, quite a bit, as says, losing
our sweet little pets will.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So I didn't know you had told everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Well I told the patrons, you know, because you know,
I feel like I especially owe them, you know, the
word yeah an explanation.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, if I'd known that, I wouldn't have put on
a brief face. But yeah, what's done is done.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, you know, it's you know, on one hand, you
read about how, you know, horrible things are with Gondolin,
and it's like, well, at least at least at least
things aren't as bad as that. But you know, just
you know, something about our cute little furry friends, you know,
when we lose one of them, Yeah, you know, especially
(02:09):
kind of suddenly like that, it's tough.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So it is. It definitely is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So it's been a little bit in morning mode, but
you know, I think things are looking up for us,
so feel feeling better about it. So yeah, all right,
Well in this episode, we will be discussing chapter twenty
three of the film Million of Tour in the Fall
of Gondolin. Before we get started, we'd like to give
a double up air five to our patrons three two
(02:38):
one boom, nice.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Very nice.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Special thanks to this episode's executive producers, John R. Caitlin
of t with Tolkien, Jacob Lockham, John Agent, Scotch You, Bobo,
Thank you all, and a shout out to our newest
patrons Mario G and Bende.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Oh welcome guys.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Thank thank you all so much for becoming patrons. We
really appreciate your support. Become a patron by visiting patreon
dot com slash Tolkien Road. Your financial support helps the
Tolkien Road to keep on evering on and lends you
some cool perks along the way. Learn more at patreon
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don't forget to subscribe and let us know what's on
(03:17):
your mind in the comments below. And hey, you've got
like two more days once you If you watch this
on the day it's released, you got about two more
days to take advantage of a great deal over at
true misspress dot com. Just use the code EP three
hundred and you take twenty percent off of anything in
our store from now until the end of August, which
(03:37):
is like two days away at this point, So better
act fast you can still, you know, you can always
take twenty percent off. If you're a patron. You get
a special code as a patron that you can use
to take twenty percent off at true misspress dot com.
And actually right now, if you're a patron, you get
(03:57):
twenty five percent off, just to bump it up a
little bit for ourns. So, uh anyway, now's the time
to act. All right, let's dive on in to the
fall of Gondolin. So our quote of the week actually
comes from three chapters ago, chapter twenty and this is
appropriate for this chapter because it kind of uh foreshadows
(04:20):
sets the stage for what's gonna happen in chapter twenty three.
Here we go. The field was lost, but still hourin,
and whoor And the remnant of the House of Haldor
stood firm with Tourgon of Gondolin, and the hosts of
Morgoth could not yet win the pass of Syrian. Then
Hooran spoke to Turgon, saying, go now, lord, while time
(04:43):
is for in you lives The last hope of the Eldar.
And while Gondolin stands, stands more goths shall still no
fear in his heart. But Tourgan answered, not long. Not
long now can Gondolin be hidden and being discovered it
must fall. Then hu Or spoke and said, yet, if
it stands but a little while, then out of your
(05:04):
house shall come the hope of elves and men. This
I say to you, Lord, with the eyes of death,
though we part here forever, and I shall not look
on your white walls again. From you and from me,
a new star shallow rise farewell. So kind of sets,
you know, tells us in like a little nutshell, what's
(05:25):
actually going to take place in this chapter. So I
thought that was an appropriate quote for this, especially this
a new star shell arise, right, This is the kind
of key for the rest of the remainder of the
selm Million, which after this chapter, just one more chapter
to go then, and then we'll also we will be
covering a kalab bath, and we will be covering of
the Rings of Power in the third Age, because those
(05:46):
are part of this book, the Silmarillion. We'll probably just
do each of those in one chapter, even though they're
a little longer. In the past, we've spent more time
on those, and we did this Silmarillion the first time,
we spend more time on those. This time, I think
we're just gonna do that, like nice summary of each
of those particular chapters to just one episode. Yeah, just
one episode each. So yeah, that's the plan. Sounds good,
(06:10):
all right. So with Nargothrond, and Doriov both having fallen,
and the sons of fan Or reduced to wretchedness, only
Gondolin remains of the great Elvin realms. But how long
will Gondolin remain hidden? And if it is discovered, can
it withstand the onslaught of Angman's fury? Special note, this story,
(06:30):
the Fall of Gondolin, is, in all likelihood the first
tale of Middle Earth. It's a little fuzzy sometimes it
seems maybe Baron and Luthian was, but they were probably
written roughly around the same time, originally the first versions
of them meaning during World War one, like late in
the World War one period. But you know, Tolkien at
(06:50):
different times called this the very first story. He also
mentioned that Baron Luthian was the seed of Middle Earth.
But it would seem that this one probably just barely
predates Baron and Luthian, so but it's also the funny
thing about that is is he'd never quite really completed
this story either to his liking. So we will at
(07:12):
some point cover the book The Fall of Gondolin, which
is the last of the great Tales books these, you know,
So Christopher, his kind of last major publications of his
father's work were The Children of Horn, Baron and Luthian,
and the Fall of Gondolin. He public you know, published
a book length on each one. The Fall of Gondolin
is is more like the Baron and Luthian book, where
(07:34):
it's a collection of different writings that are kind of
shows the evolution of the of the tale itself. So
we'll get to that at some point. First up will
be most likely The Children of Horan, because that's an actual,
like novel length story that just is is the story.
So looking forward to doing that. But a lot more
to say about this story outside of just of the
(07:55):
Fall of Gondolin, outside of just this particular chapter here,
all right, So hey, disclaimer, you should read this story
before you listen to the episode, you know, if you can,
if you need the episode, that's cool. But we always
favor giving it a read so that you can do
your best to understand it before you dive into our
(08:16):
discussion of it. We won't be covering every every single detail,
but we're going to hit the high points, and if
there's anything else y'all want to talk about, let us
know in the comments, all right. So this takes place
timeline the year's four seventy two through five twenty four.
Four seventy two being the year that Tour is born
(08:36):
and five twenty four being the year that Tour and
Idrill sail into the West depart for the West. He
can see the Tale of Years and the War of
the Jewels for more info on the timeline. All right. So, Tour,
as we probably realize by now, is the son of
(08:57):
who Or, brother of Whoor and who are slain in
the Battle of Unnumbered Tiers. So, going back to that
last thing, brother of Horn, which means he is the
cousin of Turin. Right, So Tour and Tour in her cousins,
and who are and Horin are brothers. So Huor is
slain in the Battle of Unnumbered Tiers, and Tuor is
(09:19):
raised by Elves and Mithrim right, which is one of
those regions in the northwest of Belleriond on the map,
tour is enslaved by easterlings at the age of sixteen
and eventually escapes into the wilderness. He lives in the
wilderness for several years and until he is inspired by
(09:40):
Olmo to wander toward the sea. Right wander westward towards
the sea. He eventually makes his way to Vinyamar, the
abandoned city built by Tourgon upon the shore of the
Great Sea. And of course Tourgon is the king of Gondolin,
the one who built Gondolin. He was inspired by Olmo
to go further inland and to find this hidden place
and to build this great city of Gondolin there. But
(10:01):
if the first thing he had built was vin Yamar,
which is the really first great city of the Noldor.
And when he is near the sea, he meets Olmo,
he meets Almo. So let's read a little bit about
his meeting with Almo. So that can you start here
right here in the Orange passage there, Gretta.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Thus he came at length to the deserted halls of Vignyamar,
beneath Mount Taras, and he entered in and found there
the shield and the hauberk, and the sword and helm
that Turan had left there by the command of Olmo
long before. And he arrayed himself in those arms and
went down to the shore. But there came a great
storm out of the west, and out of that storm Almo,
(10:46):
the Lord of Waters, arose in majesty and spoke to
Tuar as he stood beside the sea. And Olmo bade
him depart from that place and seek out the hidden
kingdom of Gondolin. And he gave tour great cloak to
mantle him in shadow from the eyes of his enemies.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, so what we're going to find in this chapter
is that Olmo plays a very major part. You know,
he's he seems to be in the background, you know,
and and from really from the very beginning, right Olmo
has been it would seem the valor who just does
not want to abandon the n Oldor and the elves
of of you know, these eastern lands right of the
(11:27):
of the lands beyond the sea. From the perspective of
Vaalen or so Almo, you know, it's like all this
time he's been preparing for this contingency. He sees all
these things ahead of time. And you know, I just
find it really interesting that Almo, of all people, because
you think of the sea as kind of being like,
I don't know, like a lot of the a lot
of the lore about the sea just in general in
(11:49):
our world is that it's like kind of a cruel
place and it doesn't care and all these things. But
Olmo seems to be the one that cares most about
the about the people's like, you know, the kind of
the these peoples of Middle Earth.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Right, this is not the first time that he's intervened
by no.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Means, by no means. So next as Tour is here
in this area, he also stumbles upon this figure of Varanweh.
And it turns out Varanweh is one of the mariners
who had set sail into the west many years before,
(12:29):
and he finds him here. He finds him here, shipwrecked,
seemingly the one of the only survivors, if not the
only survivor, of that expedition. So I'll read this passage.
But in the morning, when the storm was passed, Tour
came upon an elf standing beside the walls of Nyamar,
and he was Varanweh, son of Arnwuey of Gondolin, who
(12:51):
sailed in the last ship that tour Gon sent into
the west. But when that ship, returning at last out
of the deep ocean, founded in the great storm within
sight of the coast of Middle Earth, Oulmo took him
up alone of all its mariners, and cast him onto
the land near ven Yamar. And learning of the command
laid upon tour by the Lord of Waters, Varanhuah was
filled with wonder and did not refuse him his guidance
(13:13):
to the hidden door of Gondolin. Therefore they set out
together from that place, and as the fell winter of
that year came down upon them out of the north,
they went warily eastward under the eaves of the mountains
of Shadow. So he and Varron way go and journey
and begin to journey eastward and to seek back towards Gondolin.
(13:37):
Of course, Varanwueh is from Gondolin. So as we learned
right here, we also get this interesting little passage about
this figure in clad in black, a tall man clad
in black, that they passed by, And he's never actually
identified in this passage, But Greta, you know, do you
(13:57):
know who this happens to? Be, and he guesses.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I only know because he wrote it in the margin
of the copy.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I read, Oh, okay, yeah, it's Touring, right, So this
is this is in fact Turin, and it's just this
little something that that Tolkien decided to put in there.
They kind of cross paths right here, right. And if
you you know, remember, like the story of Touring is
is is essentially kind of taking place concurrently with this
(14:27):
story of tour because we get later on in this
chapter and we hear about like the destruction of Nargothrond,
and we hear about the destruction of Dorioth right and there.
So all these things are taking place concurrently as we're
being set up for the fall of Gondolin as well.
But yes, this is this is Turin, who it says,
(14:48):
as he gazed upon they saw one going northward in haste,
and he was a tall man, clad in black and
bearing a black sword. But they knew not who he was,
nor anything of what had befallen in the south. And
he passed them by, and they said no word. So
and it just, you know, you think about it, it's like, man,
that would be weird if Tour ever found out that
that was in fact his cousin Turin right, of course,
(15:10):
not that that would mean anything to him, because he
never would have known. He never would have known Turin
they you know, who to Or was never even knew
his father who or right. And his mother really died
I think probably before to Or even knew Rion right,
his mother because she uh she I think she died
(15:37):
of I believe she died of grief when she went
to see the burial mound where Hure and so many
other were buried, so many others were buried. So anyway,
you know, tour probably wouldn't have had a great sense
of his family lineage. And why would he have thought,
like this random guy anyway was his cousin, even if
he knew he had a cousin named Turin. Yeah, So
(15:57):
just kind of a little chance meeting of fate. And
and it's just interesting that this one doesn't really seem
to have much significance other than just like, hey, I mean,
that's to me, that's like the most touring thing that
could happen. It's like, here's this guy who's, like, you know,
one of his last remaining relatives in the.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
World, and they just pass each other by.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
It's like, actually, that's probably kind of lucky for Tour
that he just that he they didn't stop to talk,
because if they had stopped to talk to tour And
it's probably would have meant like their deaths right there
or something like that, not because of Torn killing them,
because which is because Torn seemed to bring all of
the bad all of the bad luck with him wherever
he went, all right, So arriving in Gondolin. So they
(16:40):
they arrive in Gondolin, and and they have this message
to deliver to to Olmo. I'm sorry from Olmo to
tour Goon. So Greta, do you want to read this
passage right here?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Sure? Then Tour stood before Tourn, son of and Golf
and high king of an Oldor. And upon the upon
the king's right hand there stood Magelen, his sister son.
But upon his left hand sat idol Keelbrindole, his daughter.
And all that heard the voice of Tar marveled, doubting
that this were in truth a man of mortal race.
(17:14):
For his words were the words of the Lord of
Waters that came to him in that hour. And he
gave warning to Turgon that the curse of Mandos now
hastened to its fulfillment, when all the works of the
Noldor should perish, And he bade him depart and abandon
the fair and mighty city that he had built, and
go down, and go down, Sirdon to the sea. Then
(17:37):
Turgan pondered along the council of Ulmo, and there came
into his mind the words that were spoken to him
in Vignyamar love not too well the work of thy
hands and the devices of thy heart, And remember that
the true hope of the Noldor lieth in the west
and cometh from the sea. But Turgon was become proud,
and Gondolin as beautiful as a memory of Elvin Tyrian.
(18:00):
And he turned and he trusted still in its secret
and impregnable strength. Though even a vala should gain, should gain,
say it. And after and after you got this, the
people of that city desired never again to mingle in
(18:20):
the woes of elves and men without, nor to return
through dread and danger, danger, into the west.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, so Olmo tells Torgon, Hey, it's time to get
out of here and head south to the down to
the mouths of Syrian. And of course, in a typical
Noldoran fashion, what does what does Torgan decide?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
He's like, bruh.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Cool, No, we're cool here.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah. I mean it's like he told you to build
this city in the first place, so you might want
to listen to him when he tells you it's time
to abandon it, right, Yeah, But you know, I just
think that's kind of that seems to be this recurring thing.
I believe we talked about that last episode with single
and it's like, you know, listening, like you might want
to listen to your maya wife right when she's giving
(19:07):
you counsel concerning the silmarl and the nolgram right, or
the what was it the necklace isla now, glimir, thank you?
You might want to listen. And I believe Olmo has
this what was it? I think something similar to this
happened with Olmo as well before, where he tried to
(19:29):
give advice to somebody and they kind of, you know,
just snubbed him. And it's like you might want to
listen to the valor who's trying to tell you something, right,
but tor Gon doesn't, and you might imagine what happens.
But before that happens, we do get a nice little
(19:50):
happy note. And that's that tour Uh meets Idril, the
daughter of Torgon, and and they get married, much too
Meglin's chagrin. Right Mabrol Meglin from several chapters ago, right,
the son of Aol And so let's read a little
(20:16):
bit about what happens here. And Tuur remained in Gondolin,
for its bliss and its beauty, and the wisdom of
its people held him enthralled. And he became mighty and
stature and in mind, and learned deeply of the lore
of the exiled elves. Then the heart of Idril was
turned to him, and his to her, and Meglin's secret
hatred grew ever greater, for he desired above all things
(20:38):
to possess her, the only heir of the King of Gondolin.
But so high did Tour stand in the favor of
the king, that, when he had dwelt there for seven years,
tour gond did not refuse him even the hand of
his daughter. For though he would not heed the bidding
of Olmo, he perceived that the fate of an oldor
was wound with the one whom Olmo had sent. And
he did not forget the words that Huor spoke to
(20:59):
him before the host of Gondolin departed from the Battle
of Unnumbered Tiers. Then there was made a great and
joyful feast, for Tour had won the hearts of all
the people, save only of Maglin and his secret following.
And thus there came to pass the second union of
elves and men. And so in the year five o
three is born Adale to half Elvin, from the marriage
(21:26):
of Tour and Idril.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So this was what Whore was talking about.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yes, yeah, this is the prophecy. Yeah. Yeah. If it
stands but a little while, then out of your house
shall come the hope of elves and men. This I
say to you, Lord, with the eyes of death, that
we part here forever, and I shall not look on
your white walls again. From you and from me a
new star shall arise. Yeah. So what we learn next
(21:56):
is that Maglin is on a mining expedition in the mountains,
and Meglin is a bad boy, and he goes too far.
He goes too far beyond where they're permitted to go, right,
because Torgon, in an effort to keep Gondolin hidden once,
(22:17):
you know, he kind of he's very specific about how far,
how far the people of Gondolin can go, because he
doesn't want people to wander too far, get captured and
then put the secret location of Gondolin at risk.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
So you think this was intentional.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I don't think it was intentional.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Actually, he wasn't really a bad boy.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Well, he was being bad because he was violating the
boundaries that Torgon had.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
So that's what I'm asking, was it and he knew
what he was doing, His breaking of the boundary was
intentional or did he just like, well.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
His breaking of the boundary was intentional, But I don't
think it was like. I don't think he was looking
to get caught by Morgoth.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Right, Oh, okay, that's what I meant. I mean, did
he just did he? Was he aware of the fact
that he was breaking that bound because when I read it,
it seemed to me like he had just kind of
you know, here's what I knowingly wandered too far.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
As has for he has has been told, loved mining
and quarrying after metals above all of their craft, and
he was master and leader of the elves who worked
in the mountains distant from the city, seeking after medals
for their smithying of things. Both of peace and war,
but often Meglin went with the with few of his
folk beyond the Leger of the Hills, and the king
knew not that his bidding was defied, and thus it
(23:30):
came to pass, as fate willed, that Meglin was taken
prisoner by Orcs and brought to Angband. Okay, yeah, so
it's I mean, maybe it's not entirely clear, but I
don't get the impression from that there. To me, this
is just like it's kind of like, you know, you're
pushing your boundaries. You're like, eh, what does it matter
if we go a little further, you know, like tor
(23:50):
Gun doesn't know, We've been here plenty of times. It's
perfectly safe, right, you know. It's kind of a classic,
little classic story, right, like you push the boundary, keep
pushing the boundary, and eventually you're going to get You're
gonna get caught. Some bad's gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Right. So yeah, like you said, he didn't do it
with the intention of exposing Gondolin.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Right, right, But at the same time it goes on
to say it, uh, you know, it basically says like
he's he wasn't a weakling or craven but the torment
he endured was you know, was pretty bad and so
and it also didn't hurt that he really that he
really hated tour and was mad. And mor Goth basically
promised to Meglin that you know, he would give him idrill, right, Yeah,
(24:34):
so you know that didn't hurt, right to to help
encourage Meglan to you know, to expose Gondolin's secret location. Yep,
So Gondolin's secret location is exposed. And and then in
the year five ten, when Arindal was seven years old,
more Goth launches his assault. Says he loosed upon Gondolin
(24:57):
his bowl rogs, and his orcs and his wolves, and
with them came dragons of of the brood of Glawrung,
and they were become now many and terrible. The host
of Morgoth came over the northern hills, where the height
was greatest and the watch least vigilant. And it came
at night, upon a time of festival, when all the
people of Gondolin were upon the walls to await the
rising sun and sing their songs that it's uplifting, for
(25:19):
the morrow was the great feast that they named the
Gates of Summer. But the red Light mounted the hills
in the north and not in the east, and there
was no stay in the advance of the foe until
they were beneath the very walls of Gondolin, and the
city was beleaguered without hope. So here to me, this
is like, this is classic Morgoth right here, Right, He's
(25:41):
like he's coming at the time of festival, right, no doubt,
think about it. You go all the way back to
chapter one, and it's a time of festival he destroys
the two lamps, right. You go to the Darkening of
Eleanor and it's time of festival that he destroys the
two trees, right.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And so the guy doesn't like parties. You don't really
like parties either.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
It's total party pooper. Yeah, yeah, saying don't hold it
against well, not everybody loves parties. Well I may not
be a fan of big parties, but I don't go
like slaughtering people at the parties. So that is good
at least not yet. Yeah, gosh, that sounded horrible. Now,
(26:31):
now that's going to happen in an actual party I'm
at and I'm gonna get like it's going to be
like posted like he did it. He did it, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Gosh, yeah, sorry opened the door. I was just trying
to be silly.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, yeah, no, I actually like I like parties. I'm
just like, you know, I'm not like parties can get
old pretty quick for me too, so uh but I
just I'm not like more God. I'm not going to
go with slaughter people. I just walk off by myself.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
And you know, here's the thing. Thing, here's the thing.
If they just invited More go to their party, none
of them, that's what have happened.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah. I think he was invited to a lot of
parties when he was in Vallenor and and then he
still did this. So well right now, but you're you're
really sticking up for more Goths here.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I don't, you know, nobody's got to it's a bad rap. Okay, Yes,
I'm enjoying playing more God's advocate. You know, I don't
know he's uh, he's he's had a rough life.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Anyway, moving on, Okay, all right, all right, So.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Not that I'm condoning his actions.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
More Goth has a pattern, and you know, you think
by you think by this point they learn like, okay,
we're having a party. Maybe we should like make sure
plenty of people are still around guards or something to
set up some guards here.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah. Yeah, anyway, because history repeats itself, that's.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Right, that's right. So basically this is a pretty incredible battle.
You know, we kind of got a taste of all
of the foes, all the forces that more goth sends
against Gondolin, such a huge, like huge group that it
almost looks like the sun is like the sun is
like rising, you know, in the in the north right.
(28:18):
So in the midst of this, you know, we get
a lot of different accounts of different little skirmishes that
happen between different folks. Highlight a couple. The first is
Meglin in Tour, So, Greta, do you want to read
this passage.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Tour sought to rescue Isdril from the sack of the city,
but Magelin had laid hands on her and on Erundil,
and Tour fought with Maglin on the walls and cast
him far out, and his body as it fell, smoked
the rocky slopes of Aman Guareth Thrice rap pitched into
the flames below. Then Tour and Isdril led the remnants
(28:56):
of the people of Gondolin as they could led such
remnants the people of Gondolin as they could gather, and
the confusion of the burning down the secret way which
Idriel had prepared, and of that passage. The captains of
Angband knew nothing and thought not that any fugitives would
take a path towards the north and the highest parts
of the mountains and the nighest Angband. The fume of
(29:19):
the burning and the steam of the fair fountains of Gondolin,
withering in the flame of the dragons of the North,
fell upon the veil of tumladen and mournful mists. And
thus was the escape of Tour and his company aided,
for there was still a long and open road to
follow from the tunnel's mouth to the foothills of the mountains. Nonetheless,
they came thither and beyond hope, they climbed in woe
(29:41):
and misery, for the high places were cold and terrible,
and they had among them many that were wounded, in
women and children.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Iran to talk.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
About this, but Idril had the foresight to uh to
prepare a secret escape.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
That's right, that's right, And they take this secret escape. So
Tour kills Magalen in defending Idril, and they an Idril
and tour escape south with Erindil and a host of
whoever survives from Gondolin. So they go through this pretty dreadful,
(30:19):
dreadful pass the eagles cleft where beneath the shadow of
the highest peaks, and narrow path wound its way, and
there's this other great battle between Glorfendel and a balrog,
right many of the songs that had been sung of
the duel of Glorifindel with the bowrog upon a pinnacle
of rock in that high place, and both fell to
ruin in the abyss. But the eagles coming stooped upon
(30:41):
the Orcs and drove them shrieking back, and all were
slain or cast into the deeps, so that rumor of
the escape from Gondolin came not until long after to
mor Goth's years. Then Thorndor bore up Glorfindel's body out
of the abyss, and they buried him in a mound
of stones beside the pass, and a green turf came there,
and yellow flowers bloomed upon it amid the barrenness of stone,
(31:02):
until the world was changed. So this company makes its
way continues south, going very far south, all the way
to the Veil of Syrion, not far from the mouths
of the Mouth of Syrion. And we learn that Tuor
(31:25):
makes a song for Arendale concerning Olmo and the sea
longing awakens in both of them. And then we also
learned that Gilgalud has made the high king of the Noldor.
Now it says here that Gilgalad is the son of Fingon. Right, However,
there's a Gilgalad has really interesting parentage. Basically Tolkien couldn't
(31:49):
decide whose son he actually was over time, and the
last thing I think Tolkien said on the matter was
he was probably the son of Orodreth, who was a
child of Phennarfin. I believe, Yes, that's right. No ur
Adreth was the in the last analysis I believe was
(32:10):
the son of Andrad. So he was actually a grandson
of Phenarfin. So it gets really confusing with all these things.
But here at least Gilgalad, it's nice and clean. He's
the son of Fingon. Okay, so there you go. All right, Yeah,
so tour and the last thing we learn of in
(32:31):
this chapter, well before we get to the last thing,
we we have this really interesting passage about more Goth
and his you know, believing his triumph was fulfilled. Right,
So he's he's brought about the destruction of Nargothron, he's
brought up a destruction of Dorioth. You know, the sons
of fan Or are you know, just kind of a
scattered little band. Now three of them are dead, and
(32:56):
now Godolin is gone. So more Goth is feeling pretty
good out you know, this whole like I am the
Lord of Arda, right, this whole idea that he is
triumphant over all these and he's probably thinking to himself,
all right, now next up, I'm going like to the
east and I'm going to conquer the rest of these
lands and all these peoples. And he's, you know, he's
(33:17):
feeling pretty good about the odds for himself because the
you know, the Noldor and these elves of Bellerion were
probably the the best hope for resisting more Goth at
this point. And you know, you look at it and
it's like all he had to do. It's it's like
he had these great forces, but really it was about
(33:40):
his ability to sow discord amongst all these different peoples,
amongst all these different brethren all these different groups of
people that really should be trusting each other and having
love for one another. And he's able to sew discord
and to manipulate people, knowing what they knowing what they want,
knowing who they're in vius of, knowing who they despise.
(34:01):
So we see deeper down these spiritual issues that more
goth is kind of, you know, the master of all. Right,
So we also read of Olmo pleading with the valor
right to send help. But Manway basically says, the wives
(34:22):
have said that the hour is not yet common. The
only ones speaking in person for the cause of both
elves and men pleading for pardon on their misdeeds and
pity on their woes might move the counsels of the powers.
So so really someone has to come and plead on
their behalves, right, someone has to come all the way
back to Vallenor and plead on their behalves. And we
(34:44):
learned lastly that Tour finding old age coming upon him,
sails into the west with Idril and is joined to
the nold or right. He's joined to the Noldor forever,
so he, you know, forsakes his his status as a
man is a mortal man and is numbered now among
(35:04):
the elder race. It says, so great anything I skipped
over that you I think was noteworthy? No, that's good,
all right? Yeah, well, one chapter to go, right, one
chapter to go once again. More Gorath triumphs not so
much by strength of arms, but by the sowing of
division and envy. He didn't regret losing a Selmrill. It
(35:25):
was a small price to pay to wreak vengeance upon
his Noldoran phones, Noldoran foes. And you know, you just
get this sense of the long defeat, right that that
that this has just been part of this this idea
of what Tolkien called the long defeat that you know,
you can only hold out against this kind of like
(35:46):
creeping evil for so long, right, the creeping uh, you know,
the creeping doom for so long. But as we'll see
in chapter twenty four, it's not the final word on
all this, right, there's one more made your thing to
happen in the story of the First Age, and it's
a good one.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
So so quick question. Yeah, when it says at the
end that Tuur was like he basically was sundered from men, right,
so he was joan old or that means that he,
like his his his fate also was to be immortal.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Then, yes, I believe so is that?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
But that wasn't the case with Baron.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
No, Luthian made a choice to become mortal like Baron,
because Baron at that point was already was already dead. Right,
so Baron died, yes, that's right, and then was and
then Luthian pled for him and brought him back to life.
But she had to forsake her own immortality.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Right right. Okay, So when it said that that Adrill
and Tuur was the second time that Menonelves had joined Baron,
Luthian was the first? Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yes, that's right, that's right. Cool. Yeah, so all right,
let's do some cou let's do it alright, rock paper scissors, Shoot,
rock paper scissors.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Shoot, darn it, I'll go first. All right, Alt's see, y'all.
I had trouble already on for this chapter. Here we go,
Council unheeded, a kingdom falls, tour sails west. The oath
(37:33):
remains m hm not bad. Yeah, it's a best second
to that.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I liked.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
It's kind of a summary, haku. Just read myq be like,
that's the chapter.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Done, shortest episode ever. Let's all right, Olmo calls summons unconquered,
hearts to the shore, fixed eyes on sunset.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
I like that very good.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Thanks, Yeah, that's for sure. Didn't really summarize things like
yours did.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
That's true. It had more of an artistic bent to it,
though mine was just the facts. Yeah, you had some
like creative.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
You're like, I ain't got time for any of this,
you know, mumbo jumbo. Let me just get straight to
the point here, to the point. I'm like, I'm like, la,
toss flowers in the air.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yes, we should all do a little more flower tossing.
I mean, life would be so much better.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I'd do it every day. That's my main hobbies. I
just tossed toss flower pedals into the air. All right. Well, subscribe,
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(39:00):
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all right. Thank you to our amazing patrons, especially the following.
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(39:22):
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All Right, thank you all so much for your support.
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talk at you next time. Bye bye bye
Hey there, fellow travelers. Our twenty twenty five Silm Million
journey continues with chapter twenty three of Quintusilmarillion of Tour
and the Fall of Gondolin. With Doriath having fallen in
chapter twenty two, the remaining elvis enclaves of Bellerion face
increasing peril, and not even Gondolin can remain hidden from
the forces of Morgoth forever. While you're listening, check out
(00:24):
Silmguide dot com. That's si lmguide dot com for guides
to individual chapters. You can find that link in the
show notes. Who support our work here please visit Patreon
dot com slash Tolkien Road Enjoy. Hey there, fellow travelers,
Welcome to the Tolkien Road, Episode three oh three. Greta,
how we doing?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
How are we doing? It's Monday? Yeah, Mondays aren't fun, Yeah, bab,
I don't know other than that, yeah are you?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah? Well, so you may not know this, but I did.
I did tell like all our patrons that you know,
the episode was delayed because we were supposed to do
it Friday but then had something totally just a huge
bummer of walking in me walking into the house on
Friday afternoon, right before we're going to record, and our
sweet little boots the cat had unfortunately left this good
(01:19):
earth so rather suddenly. So you know, it's just a bummer.
It was just a bummer kind of you know, kind
of smarted, you know, quite a bit, as says, losing
our sweet little pets will.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So I didn't know you had told everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Well I told the patrons, you know, because you know,
I feel like I especially owe them, you know, the
word yeah an explanation.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, if I'd known that, I wouldn't have put on
a brief face. But yeah, what's done is done.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, you know, it's you know, on one hand, you
read about how, you know, horrible things are with Gondolin,
and it's like, well, at least at least at least
things aren't as bad as that. But you know, just
you know, something about our cute little furry friends, you know,
when we lose one of them, Yeah, you know, especially
(02:09):
kind of suddenly like that, it's tough.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So it is. It definitely is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So it's been a little bit in morning mode, but
you know, I think things are looking up for us,
so feel feeling better about it. So yeah, all right,
Well in this episode, we will be discussing chapter twenty
three of the film Million of Tour in the Fall
of Gondolin. Before we get started, we'd like to give
a double up air five to our patrons three two
(02:38):
one boom, nice.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Very nice.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Special thanks to this episode's executive producers, John R. Caitlin
of t with Tolkien, Jacob Lockham, John Agent, Scotch You, Bobo,
Thank you all, and a shout out to our newest
patrons Mario G and Bende.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Oh welcome guys.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Thank thank you all so much for becoming patrons. We
really appreciate your support. Become a patron by visiting patreon
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(03:17):
your mind in the comments below. And hey, you've got
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twenty five percent off, just to bump it up a
little bit for ourns. So, uh anyway, now's the time
to act. All right, let's dive on in to the
fall of Gondolin. So our quote of the week actually
comes from three chapters ago, chapter twenty and this is
appropriate for this chapter because it kind of uh foreshadows
(04:20):
sets the stage for what's gonna happen in chapter twenty three.
Here we go. The field was lost, but still hourin,
and whoor And the remnant of the House of Haldor
stood firm with Tourgon of Gondolin, and the hosts of
Morgoth could not yet win the pass of Syrian. Then
Hooran spoke to Turgon, saying, go now, lord, while time
(04:43):
is for in you lives The last hope of the Eldar.
And while Gondolin stands, stands more goths shall still no
fear in his heart. But Tourgan answered, not long. Not
long now can Gondolin be hidden and being discovered it
must fall. Then hu Or spoke and said, yet, if
it stands but a little while, then out of your
(05:04):
house shall come the hope of elves and men. This
I say to you, Lord, with the eyes of death,
though we part here forever, and I shall not look
on your white walls again. From you and from me,
a new star shallow rise farewell. So kind of sets,
you know, tells us in like a little nutshell, what's
(05:25):
actually going to take place in this chapter. So I
thought that was an appropriate quote for this, especially this
a new star shell arise, right, This is the kind
of key for the rest of the remainder of the
selm Million, which after this chapter, just one more chapter
to go then, and then we'll also we will be
covering a kalab bath, and we will be covering of
the Rings of Power in the third Age, because those
(05:46):
are part of this book, the Silmarillion. We'll probably just
do each of those in one chapter, even though they're
a little longer. In the past, we've spent more time
on those, and we did this Silmarillion the first time,
we spend more time on those. This time, I think
we're just gonna do that, like nice summary of each
of those particular chapters to just one episode. Yeah, just
one episode each. So yeah, that's the plan. Sounds good,
(06:10):
all right. So with Nargothrond, and Doriov both having fallen,
and the sons of fan Or reduced to wretchedness, only
Gondolin remains of the great Elvin realms. But how long
will Gondolin remain hidden? And if it is discovered, can
it withstand the onslaught of Angman's fury? Special note, this story,
(06:30):
the Fall of Gondolin, is, in all likelihood the first
tale of Middle Earth. It's a little fuzzy sometimes it
seems maybe Baron and Luthian was, but they were probably
written roughly around the same time, originally the first versions
of them meaning during World War one, like late in
the World War one period. But you know, Tolkien at
(06:50):
different times called this the very first story. He also
mentioned that Baron Luthian was the seed of Middle Earth.
But it would seem that this one probably just barely
predates Baron and Luthian, so but it's also the funny
thing about that is is he'd never quite really completed
this story either to his liking. So we will at
(07:12):
some point cover the book The Fall of Gondolin, which
is the last of the great Tales books these, you know,
So Christopher, his kind of last major publications of his
father's work were The Children of Horn, Baron and Luthian,
and the Fall of Gondolin. He public you know, published
a book length on each one. The Fall of Gondolin
is is more like the Baron and Luthian book, where
(07:34):
it's a collection of different writings that are kind of
shows the evolution of the of the tale itself. So
we'll get to that at some point. First up will
be most likely The Children of Horan, because that's an actual,
like novel length story that just is is the story.
So looking forward to doing that. But a lot more
to say about this story outside of just of the
(07:55):
Fall of Gondolin, outside of just this particular chapter here,
all right, So hey, disclaimer, you should read this story
before you listen to the episode, you know, if you can,
if you need the episode, that's cool. But we always
favor giving it a read so that you can do
your best to understand it before you dive into our
(08:16):
discussion of it. We won't be covering every every single detail,
but we're going to hit the high points, and if
there's anything else y'all want to talk about, let us
know in the comments, all right. So this takes place
timeline the year's four seventy two through five twenty four.
Four seventy two being the year that Tour is born
(08:36):
and five twenty four being the year that Tour and
Idrill sail into the West depart for the West. He
can see the Tale of Years and the War of
the Jewels for more info on the timeline. All right. So, Tour,
as we probably realize by now, is the son of
(08:57):
who Or, brother of Whoor and who are slain in
the Battle of Unnumbered Tiers. So, going back to that
last thing, brother of Horn, which means he is the
cousin of Turin. Right, So Tour and Tour in her cousins,
and who are and Horin are brothers. So Huor is
slain in the Battle of Unnumbered Tiers, and Tuor is
(09:19):
raised by Elves and Mithrim right, which is one of
those regions in the northwest of Belleriond on the map,
tour is enslaved by easterlings at the age of sixteen
and eventually escapes into the wilderness. He lives in the
wilderness for several years and until he is inspired by
(09:40):
Olmo to wander toward the sea. Right wander westward towards
the sea. He eventually makes his way to Vinyamar, the
abandoned city built by Tourgon upon the shore of the
Great Sea. And of course Tourgon is the king of Gondolin,
the one who built Gondolin. He was inspired by Olmo
to go further inland and to find this hidden place
and to build this great city of Gondolin there. But
(10:01):
if the first thing he had built was vin Yamar,
which is the really first great city of the Noldor.
And when he is near the sea, he meets Olmo,
he meets Almo. So let's read a little bit about
his meeting with Almo. So that can you start here
right here in the Orange passage there, Gretta.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Thus he came at length to the deserted halls of Vignyamar,
beneath Mount Taras, and he entered in and found there
the shield and the hauberk, and the sword and helm
that Turan had left there by the command of Olmo
long before. And he arrayed himself in those arms and
went down to the shore. But there came a great
storm out of the west, and out of that storm Almo,
(10:46):
the Lord of Waters, arose in majesty and spoke to
Tuar as he stood beside the sea. And Olmo bade
him depart from that place and seek out the hidden
kingdom of Gondolin. And he gave tour great cloak to
mantle him in shadow from the eyes of his enemies.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, so what we're going to find in this chapter
is that Olmo plays a very major part. You know,
he's he seems to be in the background, you know,
and and from really from the very beginning, right Olmo
has been it would seem the valor who just does
not want to abandon the n Oldor and the elves
of of you know, these eastern lands right of the
(11:27):
of the lands beyond the sea. From the perspective of
Vaalen or so Almo, you know, it's like all this
time he's been preparing for this contingency. He sees all
these things ahead of time. And you know, I just
find it really interesting that Almo, of all people, because
you think of the sea as kind of being like,
I don't know, like a lot of the a lot
of the lore about the sea just in general in
(11:49):
our world is that it's like kind of a cruel
place and it doesn't care and all these things. But
Olmo seems to be the one that cares most about
the about the people's like, you know, the kind of
the these peoples of Middle Earth.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Right, this is not the first time that he's intervened
by no.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Means, by no means. So next as Tour is here
in this area, he also stumbles upon this figure of Varanweh.
And it turns out Varanweh is one of the mariners
who had set sail into the west many years before,
(12:29):
and he finds him here. He finds him here, shipwrecked,
seemingly the one of the only survivors, if not the
only survivor, of that expedition. So I'll read this passage.
But in the morning, when the storm was passed, Tour
came upon an elf standing beside the walls of Nyamar,
and he was Varanweh, son of Arnwuey of Gondolin, who
(12:51):
sailed in the last ship that tour Gon sent into
the west. But when that ship, returning at last out
of the deep ocean, founded in the great storm within
sight of the coast of Middle Earth, Oulmo took him
up alone of all its mariners, and cast him onto
the land near ven Yamar. And learning of the command
laid upon tour by the Lord of Waters, Varanhuah was
filled with wonder and did not refuse him his guidance
(13:13):
to the hidden door of Gondolin. Therefore they set out
together from that place, and as the fell winter of
that year came down upon them out of the north,
they went warily eastward under the eaves of the mountains
of Shadow. So he and Varron way go and journey
and begin to journey eastward and to seek back towards Gondolin.
(13:37):
Of course, Varanwueh is from Gondolin. So as we learned
right here, we also get this interesting little passage about
this figure in clad in black, a tall man clad
in black, that they passed by, And he's never actually
identified in this passage, But Greta, you know, do you
(13:57):
know who this happens to? Be, and he guesses.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I only know because he wrote it in the margin
of the copy.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I read, Oh, okay, yeah, it's Touring, right, So this
is this is in fact Turin, and it's just this
little something that that Tolkien decided to put in there.
They kind of cross paths right here, right. And if
you you know, remember, like the story of Touring is
is is essentially kind of taking place concurrently with this
(14:27):
story of tour because we get later on in this
chapter and we hear about like the destruction of Nargothrond,
and we hear about the destruction of Dorioth right and there.
So all these things are taking place concurrently as we're
being set up for the fall of Gondolin as well.
But yes, this is this is Turin, who it says,
(14:48):
as he gazed upon they saw one going northward in haste,
and he was a tall man, clad in black and
bearing a black sword. But they knew not who he was,
nor anything of what had befallen in the south. And
he passed them by, and they said no word. So
and it just, you know, you think about it, it's like, man,
that would be weird if Tour ever found out that
that was in fact his cousin Turin right, of course,
(15:10):
not that that would mean anything to him, because he
never would have known. He never would have known Turin
they you know, who to Or was never even knew
his father who or right. And his mother really died
I think probably before to Or even knew Rion right,
his mother because she uh she I think she died
(15:37):
of I believe she died of grief when she went
to see the burial mound where Hure and so many
other were buried, so many others were buried. So anyway,
you know, tour probably wouldn't have had a great sense
of his family lineage. And why would he have thought,
like this random guy anyway was his cousin, even if
he knew he had a cousin named Turin. Yeah, So
(15:57):
just kind of a little chance meeting of fate. And
and it's just interesting that this one doesn't really seem
to have much significance other than just like, hey, I mean,
that's to me, that's like the most touring thing that
could happen. It's like, here's this guy who's, like, you know,
one of his last remaining relatives in the.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
World, and they just pass each other by.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
It's like, actually, that's probably kind of lucky for Tour
that he just that he they didn't stop to talk,
because if they had stopped to talk to tour And
it's probably would have meant like their deaths right there
or something like that, not because of Torn killing them,
because which is because Torn seemed to bring all of
the bad all of the bad luck with him wherever
he went, all right, So arriving in Gondolin. So they
(16:40):
they arrive in Gondolin, and and they have this message
to deliver to to Olmo. I'm sorry from Olmo to
tour Goon. So Greta, do you want to read this
passage right here?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Sure? Then Tour stood before Tourn, son of and Golf
and high king of an Oldor. And upon the upon
the king's right hand there stood Magelen, his sister son.
But upon his left hand sat idol Keelbrindole, his daughter.
And all that heard the voice of Tar marveled, doubting
that this were in truth a man of mortal race.
(17:14):
For his words were the words of the Lord of
Waters that came to him in that hour. And he
gave warning to Turgon that the curse of Mandos now
hastened to its fulfillment, when all the works of the
Noldor should perish, And he bade him depart and abandon
the fair and mighty city that he had built, and
go down, and go down, Sirdon to the sea. Then
(17:37):
Turgan pondered along the council of Ulmo, and there came
into his mind the words that were spoken to him
in Vignyamar love not too well the work of thy
hands and the devices of thy heart, And remember that
the true hope of the Noldor lieth in the west
and cometh from the sea. But Turgon was become proud,
and Gondolin as beautiful as a memory of Elvin Tyrian.
(18:00):
And he turned and he trusted still in its secret
and impregnable strength. Though even a vala should gain, should gain,
say it. And after and after you got this, the
people of that city desired never again to mingle in
(18:20):
the woes of elves and men without, nor to return
through dread and danger, danger, into the west.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, so Olmo tells Torgon, Hey, it's time to get
out of here and head south to the down to
the mouths of Syrian. And of course, in a typical
Noldoran fashion, what does what does Torgan decide?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
He's like, bruh.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Cool, No, we're cool here.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah. I mean it's like he told you to build
this city in the first place, so you might want
to listen to him when he tells you it's time
to abandon it, right, Yeah, But you know, I just
think that's kind of that seems to be this recurring thing.
I believe we talked about that last episode with single
and it's like, you know, listening, like you might want
to listen to your maya wife right when she's giving
(19:07):
you counsel concerning the silmarl and the nolgram right, or
the what was it the necklace isla now, glimir, thank you?
You might want to listen. And I believe Olmo has
this what was it? I think something similar to this
happened with Olmo as well before, where he tried to
(19:29):
give advice to somebody and they kind of, you know,
just snubbed him. And it's like you might want to
listen to the valor who's trying to tell you something, right,
but tor Gon doesn't, and you might imagine what happens.
But before that happens, we do get a nice little
(19:50):
happy note. And that's that tour Uh meets Idril, the
daughter of Torgon, and and they get married, much too
Meglin's chagrin. Right Mabrol Meglin from several chapters ago, right,
the son of Aol And so let's read a little
(20:16):
bit about what happens here. And Tuur remained in Gondolin,
for its bliss and its beauty, and the wisdom of
its people held him enthralled. And he became mighty and
stature and in mind, and learned deeply of the lore
of the exiled elves. Then the heart of Idril was
turned to him, and his to her, and Meglin's secret
hatred grew ever greater, for he desired above all things
(20:38):
to possess her, the only heir of the King of Gondolin.
But so high did Tour stand in the favor of
the king, that, when he had dwelt there for seven years,
tour gond did not refuse him even the hand of
his daughter. For though he would not heed the bidding
of Olmo, he perceived that the fate of an oldor
was wound with the one whom Olmo had sent. And
he did not forget the words that Huor spoke to
(20:59):
him before the host of Gondolin departed from the Battle
of Unnumbered Tiers. Then there was made a great and
joyful feast, for Tour had won the hearts of all
the people, save only of Maglin and his secret following.
And thus there came to pass the second union of
elves and men. And so in the year five o
three is born Adale to half Elvin, from the marriage
(21:26):
of Tour and Idril.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So this was what Whore was talking about.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yes, yeah, this is the prophecy. Yeah. Yeah. If it
stands but a little while, then out of your house
shall come the hope of elves and men. This I
say to you, Lord, with the eyes of death, that
we part here forever, and I shall not look on
your white walls again. From you and from me a
new star shall arise. Yeah. So what we learn next
(21:56):
is that Maglin is on a mining expedition in the mountains,
and Meglin is a bad boy, and he goes too far.
He goes too far beyond where they're permitted to go, right,
because Torgon, in an effort to keep Gondolin hidden once,
(22:17):
you know, he kind of he's very specific about how far,
how far the people of Gondolin can go, because he
doesn't want people to wander too far, get captured and
then put the secret location of Gondolin at risk.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
So you think this was intentional.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I don't think it was intentional.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Actually, he wasn't really a bad boy.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Well, he was being bad because he was violating the
boundaries that Torgon had.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
So that's what I'm asking, was it and he knew
what he was doing, His breaking of the boundary was
intentional or did he just like, well.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
His breaking of the boundary was intentional, But I don't
think it was like. I don't think he was looking
to get caught by Morgoth.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Right, Oh, okay, that's what I meant. I mean, did
he just did he? Was he aware of the fact
that he was breaking that bound because when I read it,
it seemed to me like he had just kind of
you know, here's what I knowingly wandered too far.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
As has for he has has been told, loved mining
and quarrying after metals above all of their craft, and
he was master and leader of the elves who worked
in the mountains distant from the city, seeking after medals
for their smithying of things. Both of peace and war,
but often Meglin went with the with few of his
folk beyond the Leger of the Hills, and the king
knew not that his bidding was defied, and thus it
(23:30):
came to pass, as fate willed, that Meglin was taken
prisoner by Orcs and brought to Angband. Okay, yeah, so
it's I mean, maybe it's not entirely clear, but I
don't get the impression from that there. To me, this
is just like it's kind of like, you know, you're
pushing your boundaries. You're like, eh, what does it matter
if we go a little further, you know, like tor
(23:50):
Gun doesn't know, We've been here plenty of times. It's
perfectly safe, right, you know. It's kind of a classic,
little classic story, right, like you push the boundary, keep
pushing the boundary, and eventually you're going to get You're
gonna get caught. Some bad's gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Right. So yeah, like you said, he didn't do it
with the intention of exposing Gondolin.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Right, right, But at the same time it goes on
to say it, uh, you know, it basically says like
he's he wasn't a weakling or craven but the torment
he endured was you know, was pretty bad and so
and it also didn't hurt that he really that he
really hated tour and was mad. And mor Goth basically
promised to Meglin that you know, he would give him idrill, right, Yeah,
(24:34):
so you know that didn't hurt, right to to help
encourage Meglan to you know, to expose Gondolin's secret location. Yep,
So Gondolin's secret location is exposed. And and then in
the year five ten, when Arindal was seven years old,
more Goth launches his assault. Says he loosed upon Gondolin
(24:57):
his bowl rogs, and his orcs and his wolves, and
with them came dragons of of the brood of Glawrung,
and they were become now many and terrible. The host
of Morgoth came over the northern hills, where the height
was greatest and the watch least vigilant. And it came
at night, upon a time of festival, when all the
people of Gondolin were upon the walls to await the
rising sun and sing their songs that it's uplifting, for
(25:19):
the morrow was the great feast that they named the
Gates of Summer. But the red Light mounted the hills
in the north and not in the east, and there
was no stay in the advance of the foe until
they were beneath the very walls of Gondolin, and the
city was beleaguered without hope. So here to me, this
is like, this is classic Morgoth right here, Right, He's
(25:41):
like he's coming at the time of festival, right, no doubt,
think about it. You go all the way back to
chapter one, and it's a time of festival he destroys
the two lamps, right. You go to the Darkening of
Eleanor and it's time of festival that he destroys the
two trees, right.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And so the guy doesn't like parties. You don't really
like parties either.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
It's total party pooper. Yeah, yeah, saying don't hold it
against well, not everybody loves parties. Well I may not
be a fan of big parties, but I don't go
like slaughtering people at the parties. So that is good
at least not yet. Yeah, gosh, that sounded horrible. Now,
(26:31):
now that's going to happen in an actual party I'm
at and I'm gonna get like it's going to be
like posted like he did it. He did it, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Gosh, yeah, sorry opened the door. I was just trying
to be silly.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, yeah, no, I actually like I like parties. I'm
just like, you know, I'm not like parties can get
old pretty quick for me too, so uh but I
just I'm not like more God. I'm not going to
go with slaughter people. I just walk off by myself.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
And you know, here's the thing. Thing, here's the thing.
If they just invited More go to their party, none
of them, that's what have happened.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah. I think he was invited to a lot of
parties when he was in Vallenor and and then he
still did this. So well right now, but you're you're
really sticking up for more Goths here.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I don't, you know, nobody's got to it's a bad rap. Okay, Yes,
I'm enjoying playing more God's advocate. You know, I don't
know he's uh, he's he's had a rough life.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Anyway, moving on, Okay, all right, all right, So.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Not that I'm condoning his actions.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
More Goth has a pattern, and you know, you think
by you think by this point they learn like, okay,
we're having a party. Maybe we should like make sure
plenty of people are still around guards or something to
set up some guards here.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah. Yeah, anyway, because history repeats itself, that's.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Right, that's right. So basically this is a pretty incredible battle.
You know, we kind of got a taste of all
of the foes, all the forces that more goth sends
against Gondolin, such a huge, like huge group that it
almost looks like the sun is like the sun is
like rising, you know, in the in the north right.
(28:18):
So in the midst of this, you know, we get
a lot of different accounts of different little skirmishes that
happen between different folks. Highlight a couple. The first is
Meglin in Tour, So, Greta, do you want to read
this passage.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Tour sought to rescue Isdril from the sack of the city,
but Magelin had laid hands on her and on Erundil,
and Tour fought with Maglin on the walls and cast
him far out, and his body as it fell, smoked
the rocky slopes of Aman Guareth Thrice rap pitched into
the flames below. Then Tour and Isdril led the remnants
(28:56):
of the people of Gondolin as they could led such
remnants the people of Gondolin as they could gather, and
the confusion of the burning down the secret way which
Idriel had prepared, and of that passage. The captains of
Angband knew nothing and thought not that any fugitives would
take a path towards the north and the highest parts
of the mountains and the nighest Angband. The fume of
(29:19):
the burning and the steam of the fair fountains of Gondolin,
withering in the flame of the dragons of the North,
fell upon the veil of tumladen and mournful mists. And
thus was the escape of Tour and his company aided,
for there was still a long and open road to
follow from the tunnel's mouth to the foothills of the mountains. Nonetheless,
they came thither and beyond hope, they climbed in woe
(29:41):
and misery, for the high places were cold and terrible,
and they had among them many that were wounded, in
women and children.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Iran to talk.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
About this, but Idril had the foresight to uh to
prepare a secret escape.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
That's right, that's right, And they take this secret escape. So
Tour kills Magalen in defending Idril, and they an Idril
and tour escape south with Erindil and a host of
whoever survives from Gondolin. So they go through this pretty dreadful,
(30:19):
dreadful pass the eagles cleft where beneath the shadow of
the highest peaks, and narrow path wound its way, and
there's this other great battle between Glorfendel and a balrog,
right many of the songs that had been sung of
the duel of Glorifindel with the bowrog upon a pinnacle
of rock in that high place, and both fell to
ruin in the abyss. But the eagles coming stooped upon
(30:41):
the Orcs and drove them shrieking back, and all were
slain or cast into the deeps, so that rumor of
the escape from Gondolin came not until long after to
mor Goth's years. Then Thorndor bore up Glorfindel's body out
of the abyss, and they buried him in a mound
of stones beside the pass, and a green turf came there,
and yellow flowers bloomed upon it amid the barrenness of stone,
(31:02):
until the world was changed. So this company makes its
way continues south, going very far south, all the way
to the Veil of Syrion, not far from the mouths
of the Mouth of Syrion. And we learn that Tuor
(31:25):
makes a song for Arendale concerning Olmo and the sea
longing awakens in both of them. And then we also
learned that Gilgalud has made the high king of the Noldor.
Now it says here that Gilgalad is the son of Fingon. Right, However,
there's a Gilgalad has really interesting parentage. Basically Tolkien couldn't
(31:49):
decide whose son he actually was over time, and the
last thing I think Tolkien said on the matter was
he was probably the son of Orodreth, who was a
child of Phennarfin. I believe, Yes, that's right. No ur
Adreth was the in the last analysis I believe was
(32:10):
the son of Andrad. So he was actually a grandson
of Phenarfin. So it gets really confusing with all these things.
But here at least Gilgalad, it's nice and clean. He's
the son of Fingon. Okay, so there you go. All right, Yeah,
so tour and the last thing we learn of in
(32:31):
this chapter, well before we get to the last thing,
we we have this really interesting passage about more Goth
and his you know, believing his triumph was fulfilled. Right,
So he's he's brought about the destruction of Nargothron, he's
brought up a destruction of Dorioth. You know, the sons
of fan Or are you know, just kind of a
scattered little band. Now three of them are dead, and
(32:56):
now Godolin is gone. So more Goth is feeling pretty
good out you know, this whole like I am the
Lord of Arda, right, this whole idea that he is
triumphant over all these and he's probably thinking to himself,
all right, now next up, I'm going like to the
east and I'm going to conquer the rest of these
lands and all these peoples. And he's, you know, he's
(33:17):
feeling pretty good about the odds for himself because the
you know, the Noldor and these elves of Bellerion were
probably the the best hope for resisting more Goth at
this point. And you know, you look at it and
it's like all he had to do. It's it's like
he had these great forces, but really it was about
(33:40):
his ability to sow discord amongst all these different peoples,
amongst all these different brethren all these different groups of
people that really should be trusting each other and having
love for one another. And he's able to sew discord
and to manipulate people, knowing what they knowing what they want,
knowing who they're in vius of, knowing who they despise.
(34:01):
So we see deeper down these spiritual issues that more
goth is kind of, you know, the master of all. Right,
So we also read of Olmo pleading with the valor
right to send help. But Manway basically says, the wives
(34:22):
have said that the hour is not yet common. The
only ones speaking in person for the cause of both
elves and men pleading for pardon on their misdeeds and
pity on their woes might move the counsels of the powers.
So so really someone has to come and plead on
their behalves, right, someone has to come all the way
back to Vallenor and plead on their behalves. And we
(34:44):
learned lastly that Tour finding old age coming upon him,
sails into the west with Idril and is joined to
the nold or right. He's joined to the Noldor forever,
so he, you know, forsakes his his status as a
man is a mortal man and is numbered now among
(35:04):
the elder race. It says, so great anything I skipped
over that you I think was noteworthy? No, that's good,
all right? Yeah, well, one chapter to go, right, one
chapter to go once again. More Gorath triumphs not so
much by strength of arms, but by the sowing of
division and envy. He didn't regret losing a Selmrill. It
(35:25):
was a small price to pay to wreak vengeance upon
his Noldoran phones, Noldoran foes. And you know, you just
get this sense of the long defeat, right that that
that this has just been part of this this idea
of what Tolkien called the long defeat that you know,
you can only hold out against this kind of like
(35:46):
creeping evil for so long, right, the creeping uh, you know,
the creeping doom for so long. But as we'll see
in chapter twenty four, it's not the final word on
all this, right, there's one more made your thing to
happen in the story of the First Age, and it's
a good one.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
So so quick question. Yeah, when it says at the
end that Tuur was like he basically was sundered from men, right,
so he was joan old or that means that he,
like his his his fate also was to be immortal.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Then, yes, I believe so is that?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
But that wasn't the case with Baron.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
No, Luthian made a choice to become mortal like Baron,
because Baron at that point was already was already dead. Right,
so Baron died, yes, that's right, and then was and
then Luthian pled for him and brought him back to life.
But she had to forsake her own immortality.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Right right. Okay, So when it said that that Adrill
and Tuur was the second time that Menonelves had joined Baron,
Luthian was the first? Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yes, that's right, that's right. Cool. Yeah, so all right,
let's do some cou let's do it alright, rock paper scissors, Shoot,
rock paper scissors.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Shoot, darn it, I'll go first. All right, Alt's see, y'all.
I had trouble already on for this chapter. Here we go,
Council unheeded, a kingdom falls, tour sails west. The oath
(37:33):
remains m hm not bad. Yeah, it's a best second
to that.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I liked.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
It's kind of a summary, haku. Just read myq be like,
that's the chapter.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Done, shortest episode ever. Let's all right, Olmo calls summons unconquered,
hearts to the shore, fixed eyes on sunset.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
I like that very good.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Thanks, Yeah, that's for sure. Didn't really summarize things like
yours did.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
That's true. It had more of an artistic bent to it,
though mine was just the facts. Yeah, you had some
like creative.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
You're like, I ain't got time for any of this,
you know, mumbo jumbo. Let me just get straight to
the point here, to the point. I'm like, I'm like, la,
toss flowers in the air.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yes, we should all do a little more flower tossing.
I mean, life would be so much better.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I'd do it every day. That's my main hobbies. I
just tossed toss flower pedals into the air. All right. Well, subscribe,
rate and review us on iTunes or your platform or
the platform of your choice. If you're a five star
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When you do that, it helps to get the out
(39:00):
about the Tolkien Road, which helps us to keep on
everring on and drop us a line. You can correspond
with us in a number of ways. Check out the
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about it for this episode. Here's a wrap, all right, yeah,
all right. Thank you to our amazing patrons, especially the following.
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