September 16, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode, we continue our journey through The Fall of Númenor with "Before the Second Age", a summary of the major events leading up to the story of Númenor.
If you’ve ever been curious about the rise and tragic downfall of Tolkien’s greatest kingdom — and how it ties into the Rings of Power and the epic drama of the Second Age — you won’t want to miss this.
And here’s the really exciting part: I’ve got a brand-new book on the way, Tolkien’s Tragedy: Concerning Númenor, The Rings of Power, and the Second Age. It’s the culmination of years of study, and I believe it’ll change the way you look at Tolkien’s legendarium.
If you’re enjoying this series, make sure you head over to tolkienroad.substack.com and subscribe.
Read Tolkien's Tragedy: https://tolkienroad.substack.com/
That’s where you’ll get early chapters of Tolkien’s Tragedy and all the behind-the-scenes insights I only share with my readers.
Alright — let’s dive into "Before the Second Age"!
Episode Link: https://www.tolkienroad.com/e0327/
To support our work here, please visit Patreon.com/TolkienRoad.
OTHER LINKS:
Video of this episode: https://youtu.be/dGCv15COfPI
Watch AD-FREE: https://www.patreon.com/posts/138900956
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Buy Tolkien Road merch @ True Myths Press
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-tolkien-road--5222755/support.
If you’ve ever been curious about the rise and tragic downfall of Tolkien’s greatest kingdom — and how it ties into the Rings of Power and the epic drama of the Second Age — you won’t want to miss this.
And here’s the really exciting part: I’ve got a brand-new book on the way, Tolkien’s Tragedy: Concerning Númenor, The Rings of Power, and the Second Age. It’s the culmination of years of study, and I believe it’ll change the way you look at Tolkien’s legendarium.
If you’re enjoying this series, make sure you head over to tolkienroad.substack.com and subscribe.
Read Tolkien's Tragedy: https://tolkienroad.substack.com/
That’s where you’ll get early chapters of Tolkien’s Tragedy and all the behind-the-scenes insights I only share with my readers.
Alright — let’s dive into "Before the Second Age"!
Episode Link: https://www.tolkienroad.com/e0327/
To support our work here, please visit Patreon.com/TolkienRoad.
OTHER LINKS:
Video of this episode: https://youtu.be/dGCv15COfPI
Watch AD-FREE: https://www.patreon.com/posts/138900956
Listen AD-FREE: https://www.patreon.com/posts/78873862
Buy Tolkien Road merch @ True Myths Press
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-tolkien-road--5222755/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey there, fellow travelers, Welcome to the Tolkien Road. In
this episode, we continue our journey through the Fall of
Neumenor with Before the Second Age, a summary of the
major events leading up to the story of Neumenor. And
as a reminder, I've got a brand new book on
the Way Tolkien's Tragedy concerning Numenor, the Rings of Power,
and the Second Age. It's the culmination of years of study,
and I believe it'll change the way you look at
(00:20):
Tolkien's legendarium. If you're enjoying this series, make sure you
head over to tolkienrooad dot substack dot com and subscribe.
That's where you'll get early chapters of Tolkien's Tragedy and
all the behind the scenes insights I only share with
my readers. All right, let's dive into Before the Second Age.
Hey there, fellow travelers, Welcome to the Tolkien Road, Episode
three twenty seven. In this episode, we'll be exploring Before
(00:44):
the Second Age, the Fall of Neumenor's summary of the
events of the Silmarillion leading up to the founding of Numenor.
Before we get started, I'd like to give a double
up AAR five to our amazing fellowship come on in fellowship.
Those hands up there, three two one osh. Very nice
special thanks to this episode's executive producers, John R. Caitlin
(01:08):
of T with Tolkien, Jacob Blockhum, John H and ERU
twenty seven. Also a shout out to those celebrating their
fellowship anniversary in February of twenty twenty three, Ish of
the Hammer, Jacob Blockhom, Robert h Azya V, Eric B,
John R, Andrew M, Shane Wise, Lucas W, Sean S,
Sarah W, John R, David Bigwood, kat El, Sarah M,
(01:32):
and Eric B. Thank you all so much for sticking
with us over the last year. Join the Fellowship of
the Road by visiting patreon dot com slash Tolkien Road.
When you join the Fellowship, it helps us to keep
on everring on and land you some cool perks along
the way. Learn more at patreon dot com slash Tolkien
Road YouTube. Hit that like button, don't forget to subscribe,
(01:52):
and let us know what's on your mind in the
comments below. All Right, I didn't realize I was already
on my browser there showing the map. But that's okay.
The map Middle Earth is highly appropriate for us. Right,
is a show about Middle Earth. This is the third
episode of my series exploring the Fall of Numenor the
recently published collection of Second Age writings edited by Brian Sibley.
(02:13):
This bad Boy right here. Really nice book, really really
high quality stuff, high quality production. This second introduction is
a brief summary of some of the events that happen
in Middle Earth before the Second Age. Here Sibley goes
into the Middle Earth's legendarium internal history, putting to heavy
use what is probably Tolkien's most famous letter, the Waldman Letter,
(02:37):
in which Tolkien gave a thorough account of Middle Earth's
entire timeline to a prospective publisher, that being Waldman. By
the way, the Waldman Letter is a great read. I
highly recommend picking up a copy of Tolkien's letters just
for this letter alone. You'll actually get it. If you
have the Selm Million, you get a good chunk of
the Waldman Letters in the front material for the Selm Million.
(03:01):
But the whole thing, all the way through the Third
Age is in the letters of jer R. R. Tolkien, and
it's just a great, really viable resource. You know. Just
just imagine if you like met Tolkien and we're like, so,
tell me about this Middle Earth thing. From start to finish,
and he and you know, you're like, you've got half
an hour to tell me, And he just described it
all right, told the whole story from creation of Middle
(03:23):
Earth all the way through the end of what we
know is Lord of the Rings. Right, really great letter
we're spending time with. We've talked a lot about it
on this podcast, and I highly recommend it. So Sibley
heavily exerts this letter to explain the key events of
Middle Earth's early years, most of which are contained in
the Selm million. Let's take a look at Tolkien's own
(03:45):
explanation for what he was doing. Pull up my kindle here,
all right, So this is what he says. Do not laugh.
But once upon a time, Mike Crest had long since fallen.
I had to make a body of more or less
connected legend, ranging from the large and cosmogonic to the
level of romantic fairy story. The larger founded on the
(04:08):
lesser in contact with the Earth, the lesser drawing splendor
from the vast backcloths. Who from the vast backcloths, which
I could dedicate simply to England, to my country, It
should possess the tone and quality that I desired somewhat
cool and clear, be redolent of our air, the climb
(04:28):
and soil of the northwest, meaning Britain in the hither
parts of Europe, not Italy or the Aegeans, still less
the East, and while possessing, if I could achieve it
the fair, elusive beauty that some call Celtic, though it
is rarely found in genuine ancient Celtic things, it should
be high, purged of the gross, and fit for the
more adulta mind of a land long now steeped in poetry,
(04:49):
I would draw some of the great tales in fullness,
and leave many only placed in the scheme and sketched.
The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and
yet leave scope for other minds and hands wielding paint
and music and drama. Absurd got a little for clemped there. Apologies. Yeah,
so Tolkien here is kind of you know, giving, you know,
(05:09):
just imagine him, you know. And this this is this
is a letter he wrote to a Perspective publisher. This
was before we had Lord of the Rings, the film million,
you know. Essentially, this is a guy who at this point,
about fifteen years earlier, I mean just at that point,
it's like a whole era earlier had published one book,
(05:31):
one pretty well known book, The Hobbit, and had not
published anything since then, I mean anything in that same
kind of realm. He published other things that weren't really
as popular and had nothing to do with Middle Earth.
But here he is, to a perspective, publisher, and he's
baring his soul, you know, about this like life's ambition,
this life's work. You know what his vision, his dream
(05:53):
of this thing would be. He calls it absurd, and
I always chuckle at that, because we've gotten into some
missing discussions on this on this channel, in the YouTube
comments about what he meant by that, you know, calling
it absurd. There. My take on it is he was
he was not actually thinking that, he was not actually
(06:14):
calling it absurd, but he was kind of it's kind
of blushing, right, you know, Okay, here's what I'm doing.
I know it's a little probably sounds really stupid to you,
I know, but it's really what I want to do. Right.
So he's explaining that the dream of this thing, the
whole Middle Earth legendaryum, began in this idea, this really
kind of big vision of creating a mythology for England,
(06:38):
and you know, he may have left that behind and
to some degree, like over time, although you know, you
could make the case that most of the stories of
the film Relion kind of have that feel to him.
But but yeah, he was. He was basically saying, this
was my dream once upon a time. And you know
by this time, by the way he is, he is
(06:59):
almost sixty, right, if not sixty when he writes this letter, right,
So he's not a you know, he's not an ambitious
twenty five year old at this point. He is much older,
and he's revealing his dream to this perspective publisher, and
he wants to tell something that includes all different kinds
of genres of fiction. Right, So that's that's all included
(07:21):
in this. Tolkien had a strong muse, we might say,
the sense of recording what was already there something or somewhere,
not of inventing. Right. So he says this a little later,
let me see if I can pull this quote up
right here, he says, where is it? Yes, there we go.
Yet always I had the sense of recording what was
(07:43):
already there somewhere, not of inventing. For Tolkien, these stories
were not just something he was kind of making up.
He was kind of willing himself to make up. But
these were stories that kind of came to him from somewhere, right,
And you know, this is that idea of the muse, Right.
He didn't really know where they came from, but he
felt this urge to record, to record these things that
(08:05):
were already there. This is where it gets kind of mystical, right,
It's really fascinating stuff. But that's what he aimed to
accomplish with these stories of the First Age. And the
stories of the First Age are the stories that precede everything.
They proceed Lord of the Rings, They precede the stories
of Numenor in their conception, right, not just in the
terms of being chronologically first in the legendary of Middle Earth,
(08:25):
but in the whole process of Tolkien conceiving the entire
history of Middle Earth. Right, these stories, the stories of
the First Age, came first. It's this quality, the sense
of recording, of just being driven to make it, to
capture the realness of what it seemed, of how it
(08:46):
seemed to him. That's what makes it feel so real
to us as readers. Right. It results in this quality
of enchantment, which for Tolkien was one of the key
things that needs to happen with good fairy tales. With
good fantasy, it needs to enchant the readers so that
it's not this thing where they're suspending disbelief, being like okay,
I'll play along, you know, but it's not this game
(09:06):
of charades. But it's this like it's it's like you
start hearing these stories and you're like, wow, this just
seems so real, and like the best fiction always does
this right, whether it's true stories or not. It puts
you into the situation and it's told so well that
it just feels absolutely real to you, and it's engrossing
in that way. The best fiction tends to do this.
(09:29):
Sibley also quote quote. Sibley also quotes Tolkien little Tongue
Tied Today. Sibley also quotes Tolkien on the role that
invented languages played in the development of the Legendarium and
their role in giving names to the various characters. Out
of these languages are made nearly all of the names
that appear in My Legends. This gives a certain character,
a cohesion, a consistency of linguistic style, and an illusion
(09:52):
of historicity to the nomenclature or so I believe that
is markedly lacking in other comparable things. So, in other words,
is saying that languages really drove what he was doing
his creative process. Tolkien. You probably you might know Tolkien
was a philologist by profession, so someone who studies, who
(10:13):
studies languages and the development of languages in the history
of languages. This is his lifelong passion. This what drove
him to create his own languages. The created language thing
really precedes Middle Earth, and Tolkien began doing this and
it's almost like he created these languages and then he's like,
I need stories to go along with these languages, and
(10:34):
stories have the power to give new meaning towards give deeper,
richer meaning to words. So for Tolkien, these two things,
there was kind of an interplay between the stories of
the Legendarium and the languages that he was creating all along.
So you know, he created a couple of different forms
of elevition that eventually he would create a language for Numenor,
(10:54):
which well I'm sure we'll talk about it at some
later point in this series. And he created a language
for Dwarf as well. Now, these languages were never like
fully fully finished languages, but some of them were more
further developed than others. So anyway, very interesting, very fascinating
sort of process he had going on there. All right.
(11:16):
So one another interesting section here is when Tolkien kind
of summarizes for us what the Legendarium is all about.
This is like a two paragraph summary of the especially
the stories of the selm Million. What the silmar Million
is all about, he says, The main body of the tale,
the silm Million proper, is about the fall of the
most gifted kindred of the Elves, their exile from Vallenor,
(11:38):
a kind of paradise, the home of the gods and
the furthest West, their re entry into Middle Earth, the
land of their birth, but long under the rule of
the enemy, and their strife with him, the power of
evil still visibly incarnate. It receives its name because the
events are all threaded upon the fate and significance of
the Silmarili, the radiance of pure light or primeval jewels.
But the Silmarilli were more than just beautiful things. As such,
(12:01):
there was light. There was the light of Valinor, made
visible in the two trees of silver and gold. These
were slain by the enemy out of malice, and Valinor
was darkened, though from them ere they died utterly. Were
derived the lights of Sun and Moon. A marked difference
here between these legends and most others is that the
sun is not a divine symbol, but a second best thing.
In the light of the Sun, the world under the
(12:22):
sun become terms for a fallen world in a dislocated,
imperfect vision. But the chief artificer of the Elves, Fhanor,
had imprisoned the light, had imprisoned Let me start over.
But the chief artificer of the Elves, Fanor, had imprisoned
the light of Valanore. In the three Supreme Jewels, the
(12:43):
silm really before the trees were sullied or slain. This
light thus lived thereafter only in these gems. The fall
of the elves comes about through the possessive attitude of
Fanor and his seven sons to these gems. They are
captured by the enemies, set in his iron crown, and
guarded in his impenetrable stronghold. The sons of fan Or
take a terrible and blasphemous oath of enmity and vengeance
(13:04):
against all or any even of the gods who dares
to claim any part or right in the Silmarili they
pervert the greater part of their kindred, who rebel against
the gods and depart from Paradise and go to make
hopeless war upon the enemy. The first fruits of their
fall is war and paradise, the slaying of elves by elves,
and this and their evil oath dogs all their later heroism,
(13:26):
generating the treacheries and undoing all victories. The Silmarillion is
the history of the war of the exiled elves against
the enemy, which all takes place in the northwest of
the world Middle Earth. Several tales of victory and tragedy
are caught up in it, but it ends with catastrophe
in the passing of the ancient world, the world of
the long First Age. The jewels are recovered by the
(13:47):
final intervention of the gods, only to be lost forever
to the elves, one in the sea, one in the
depths of the earth, and one as a star of heaven.
This legendarium ends with a vision of the end of
the world, its breaking and remaking in the recovery. The
summer really and the light before the sun, so really,
The Silmarillion you know, is the story of this creation
(14:11):
of this world, and into this world, these godlike figures,
the val are entering, the creation of the two trees,
which give off this you know, sort of divine light, right,
this like this light that isn't just normal light like
we think of it, but it's a light that kind
of penetrates to the very depths of the soul. It's
an incredibly beautiful light, a truly valuable light, holy light,
(14:31):
if you will. And and then this Silmerillion, kind of
the silm really, these three holy jewels being created that
capture some of this light. The two trees are destroyed
by the evil Melchor later termed more goth And and
then a bunch of the elves who live in this
(14:52):
blessed realm of allan Or where the two trees were
led by fan Or, the one who created the Selmrillion,
they swear this oath and they and they go back
across the ocean to the land of Balerion to try
and reclaim these jewels and the story. So that's kind
of the first half of the story. The second half
of the story is about the further struggles of these
elves who have left Vaalen or who have left the
(15:13):
Blessed Realm to attempt to recover these three jewels from
more Goth and to defeat more Goth. Okay, that's really
the summary of it all. And there's so much more
of these stories. Obviously, you know, you should really read
the silm Million. Hope you will if you have not
read it already. But that kind of sets the stage
for the stories of the Second Age, the story of
the Fall of numenor that will come later. So Tolkien
(15:38):
mentions that it's really, you know, really the first sort
of like fifty percent, maybe even almost two thirds of
the silm Irillion proper. There are no men. Men don't
really enter into the story until later. It's all elves.
It's all these immortal creatures. You know, think of elves
essentially as men, but immortal, right, and so they're they're
different in several ways. They're different in their nature, but
(16:02):
they're kind of like the kindred of men, right, It's
just that men are mortals men. The introduction of men
into the story changes things. It makes the stories less
mythical and more like stories and romances. Tolkien calls Baron
and Luthian the chief of the stories, even going so
far as to comment that it introduces the motif of
the small being greater than the powerful, the same motif
(16:25):
that would be fully realized by the introduction of Hobbits
into the Legendarium. So the story of Baron Luthian is
really key. And if there's any one story that I'd
recommend that you read in the film Million before trying
to understand the stories of the Second Age, it would
be the story of Baron and Luthian. It's a fantastic,
just standalone chapter. It's chapter nineteen in the film Million.
It's a fantastic story all by itself. You'gnize saw Ron
(16:48):
plays a major role in the story, so you'll recognize him.
So it's one of these silmrillion stories that actually is
a little bit recognizable if your only frame of reference
is the Lord of the Rings in that story. And
it's really important in setting the stage. And we'll actually
get into this more when we talk about the next
chapter and kind of start getting into the history of
(17:08):
the Second Age itself. But it's important because Baron and
Luthian are our ancestors to both el Rond and l Ros,
who are key figures in the stories of the Second Age.
L Ros is the first king of Numenor, and el
Rond is his brother. El Ros chooses the path of mortality,
l Ron chooses the path of immortality. They're half Elvin,
(17:30):
they're half Alvin. What's really interesting about the two figures
of Baron and Luthian. Baron is a mortal man. Luthian
is an immortal she elf, but an elf maiden. But
she's actually half Elf. She's half Elf and half Maya,
which is a divine being. Right, it's one of these
lesser gods. Right, So her parents are Thingle, an elf king,
(17:56):
and Melion, who is a who is a divined She's
a lesser goddess essentially, right. So we can look at
that and we can say, wow, figures like el Rond,
el Ros, these people are actually descended from divine beings, right,
from a divine being. It's pretty fascinating to consider, and
(18:20):
it's actually really fascinating when you consider the downstream implications
for characters and some of the characters and Lord of
the Rings even beyond el Rond. So but we'll talk
about all that in due time, all right. When it
comes to the Second Age, the thing that is so
important to understand about the story of Baron and Luthian
is that it leads to the elf Man hybrid race
that would become the new Minorian line of kings and queens,
(18:40):
as well as other well known figures in the Legendarium
such as el Rond. The stories of the Selm Marillion
are extremely rich and are worth the time of any
serious Tolkien fan, so I invite you to pick up
a copy and check out our various podcast episodes on
the Selm Marillion itself. You can also learn more about
the story of Baron and Luthian and really kind of
like the whole thrust of the First Age by picking
(19:03):
up a copy of my book, Tolkien's Requiem, you know,
called a shameless plug if you will, But lots of
people have told me they've been helped by that book.
It's it's a really it's a fairly briefly it's not
going to take you very long to read, but it's
a really great little introduction via the story of Baron
and Luthian, and I think it's a great path to
go down if you really want to understand the stories
of the First Age, before you'd full head on dive in,
(19:26):
just you know, to each of them, because it can
get pretty complex from there. All right, So that is
that is before the second age. That's our that's the
main content of what we're we covering in this episode.
Let's hit some correspondence. I'm going to look at a
note from Michael h On sent on January first of
(19:51):
twenty twenty three. Right, Michael, says hi, I just finished
your episode on the Ruin of Dorieth twenty twenty two.
So the first five times I read the Silmarillion, I
didn't really notice or find it remarkable that the Selmrillion
and now Glomir were delivered to Dior. And it seems
that you didn't find it that remarkable either. But that
(20:13):
unnamed self elf lord from Assyrian must be one of
the very few beings in all of Middle Earth's history
that could resist the lust for the Silmaril. It got
me thinking of Tom Bambadil and how unimpressed and unbothered
he was by the ring. It made me think of Sam.
I don't know if there's enough material in there for
a whole show, but the resistance to temptation seems remarkable
(20:34):
and worth looking into. Yeah, it's definitely interesting, you know.
I definitely hadn't picked up on that before, but you're right,
it's right there. I'm gonna read this passage from the Silmarillion,
chapter twenty two, just to tell you what Michael's referring to.
There there came a night of autumn, and when it
grew late, one came and smote upon the doors of Metagroth,
demanding admittance to the king. He was a lord of
(20:55):
the green Elves, hastening from Assyrian, and the door wards
brought him to where Dior alone sat. Dior sat alone
in his chamber, and there in silence he gave to
the king a coffer and took his leave. But in
the coffer lay the necklace of the dwarves, wherein was
set the sel Merle, and Dior, looking upon it, knew
it for a sign that Baron er Kamion and Luthian
Tanuvil had died. Indeed, and gone were, and gone, where
(21:18):
go the race of men to a fate beyond the world.
So Dior is the son of Baron and Luthian, the
only child of Baron and Luthian, And from Dior will
descend eventually El Rondon el Rose. Just to tie it
back into our main content here today. But the thing
that Michael is referring to here is this Elfloor who's
mentioned in passing, and the fact that here he had
(21:41):
with him this Somemarle, which everyone else seems to be
tempted to want to take hold of. He has this
sell Merle, and for some reason he's not tempted. Now, Michael,
for me, I look at this and I think maybe
maybe he he wasn't aware that that's what he was carrying.
Maybe he was just aware that he this kind of
sacred mission and from Baron and Luthian, and he had
(22:05):
to deliver this to this this other person, But he
wasn't entirely in the know of about what he what
he had, right, That's one possibility. Maybe he did know
and he You're right, he was just more resistant to
the lure of it. I mean, there are characters within
the Legendarium, and and you know Tom Bombadil is one
(22:26):
you brought up. That's a big one. Sam seems to have,
you know, a great strength to resist the the lure
of the ring as well. I would also say that
Audi Goren seems to have that ability, and and even
figures like Galadriel and Gandalf, even though they show temptation
at times, they don't give into that temptation even when
(22:50):
they could, right, And it could be that this elf lord, uh,
you know, was just kind of that strong against temptation.
He was of the same sort of character in that
regard as Galadriel or Gandolf, that he just had the resistance.
So it's either that he didn't know what he had
or he was just of that enough character. And I
(23:11):
have to think that if Baron and Luthian were gonna
entrust this mission to him, either they didn't tell him
or they they knew. He was of the character to
resist the temptation to take this for his own, to
kind of seize it for his own. I think that's
entirely possible. So so there you go. That's that's my
read of that particular question. It's a really good question,
(23:33):
and you know, good on you for picking it up
and noticing that particular detail. Wanted to read this note
also from j D. I believe it's j D. Yeah,
here we go, JD s. JD says, Hello, John and Greta.
Just wanted to send a quick note to say that
I've been enjoying the podcast I'm a relatively new Tolkien fan,
(23:54):
though I read The Hobbit do. I read The Hobbit
many years ago in high school. It wasn't until about
five years ago that I read Lay the Rings for
the first time. I was enthralled by the world of
Middle Earth. I've reread Lord of the Rings and The
Hobbit several times now and have begun to delve into
some of the Tolkiennyan scholarship, such as the writings of
Joseph Pierce. I also just recently read John's book, Tolkien's Overture.
(24:15):
Hope you enjoyed it. Now, I think it's time for
me to dive into the rest of the legendarium. Would
you recommend the Silm Million next, or is there a
better place to go before jumping into that tone? Well, JD.
I would say, definitely dive into the selm me Million.
You know, if you've read Lord of the Rings, if
you've read The Hobbit, then you know, I think it's
definitely worth going down the road of the Silm Million.
(24:36):
You know, we've tried to provide a lot of resources
to help you get started there. You mentioned you've read
Tolkien's Overture. I don't think you'd said you'd read Tolkien's Requiem.
So if you haven't read Tolkien's Rockem, you know, I
recommend picking up a copy. But here's the thing I'm
gonna say this. I'm a big believer, and try to
read the Silm Marillion yourself first, see what you can
do with it. And if if you have that much
(24:56):
trouble and you need to go to my book first,
then that's what you know. It's I'm happy for you
to do that, But I never want to tell people
to read my read my book first before you read
because I want you to be able to appreciate, if
kind of unfiltered and unadulterated from whatever perspective I might
bring to it. So I hope that you can make
(25:16):
that journey like by yourself. And I wouldn't say necessarily
that you couldn't, like listen to our podcast episodes on
these particular things after you've read a chapter. It's just
that I want you to be able to really appreciate
what Tolkien wrote himself before you read my take or
anybody else's take on what it's about, on what it means.
(25:37):
You know. I just think there's value in that going
directly to the source and attempting that. But that being said,
it is a challenging work. So whatever help my you know,
my work in the book Tolkien's Requiem or my work
on the podcast would be to you. I'm happy that
it does that, so hopefully that hope that helps JD
and and I would give that same advice to anybody
(25:58):
else who's in the same as shoes as j all Right, well,
that is it for this episode. Please subscribe, rate, and
review us on iTunes or the platform of your choice.
If you are a five star fan of The Tolkien Road,
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(26:22):
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Bye bye
Hey there, fellow travelers, Welcome to the Tolkien Road. In
this episode, we continue our journey through the Fall of
Neumenor with Before the Second Age, a summary of the
major events leading up to the story of Neumenor. And
as a reminder, I've got a brand new book on
the Way Tolkien's Tragedy concerning Numenor, the Rings of Power,
and the Second Age. It's the culmination of years of study,
and I believe it'll change the way you look at
(00:20):
Tolkien's legendarium. If you're enjoying this series, make sure you
head over to tolkienrooad dot substack dot com and subscribe.
That's where you'll get early chapters of Tolkien's Tragedy and
all the behind the scenes insights I only share with
my readers. All right, let's dive into Before the Second Age.
Hey there, fellow travelers, Welcome to the Tolkien Road, Episode
three twenty seven. In this episode, we'll be exploring Before
(00:44):
the Second Age, the Fall of Neumenor's summary of the
events of the Silmarillion leading up to the founding of Numenor.
Before we get started, I'd like to give a double
up AAR five to our amazing fellowship come on in fellowship.
Those hands up there, three two one osh. Very nice
special thanks to this episode's executive producers, John R. Caitlin
(01:08):
of T with Tolkien, Jacob Blockhum, John H and ERU
twenty seven. Also a shout out to those celebrating their
fellowship anniversary in February of twenty twenty three, Ish of
the Hammer, Jacob Blockhom, Robert h Azya V, Eric B,
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(01:32):
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When you join the Fellowship, it helps us to keep
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Road YouTube. Hit that like button, don't forget to subscribe,
(01:52):
and let us know what's on your mind in the
comments below. All Right, I didn't realize I was already
on my browser there showing the map. But that's okay.
The map Middle Earth is highly appropriate for us. Right,
is a show about Middle Earth. This is the third
episode of my series exploring the Fall of Numenor the
recently published collection of Second Age writings edited by Brian Sibley.
(02:13):
This bad Boy right here. Really nice book, really really
high quality stuff, high quality production. This second introduction is
a brief summary of some of the events that happen
in Middle Earth before the Second Age. Here Sibley goes
into the Middle Earth's legendarium internal history, putting to heavy
use what is probably Tolkien's most famous letter, the Waldman Letter,
(02:37):
in which Tolkien gave a thorough account of Middle Earth's
entire timeline to a prospective publisher, that being Waldman. By
the way, the Waldman Letter is a great read. I
highly recommend picking up a copy of Tolkien's letters just
for this letter alone. You'll actually get it. If you
have the Selm Million, you get a good chunk of
the Waldman Letters in the front material for the Selm Million.
(03:01):
But the whole thing, all the way through the Third
Age is in the letters of jer R. R. Tolkien, and
it's just a great, really viable resource. You know. Just
just imagine if you like met Tolkien and we're like, so,
tell me about this Middle Earth thing. From start to finish,
and he and you know, you're like, you've got half
an hour to tell me, And he just described it
all right, told the whole story from creation of Middle
(03:23):
Earth all the way through the end of what we
know is Lord of the Rings. Right, really great letter
we're spending time with. We've talked a lot about it
on this podcast, and I highly recommend it. So Sibley
heavily exerts this letter to explain the key events of
Middle Earth's early years, most of which are contained in
the Selm million. Let's take a look at Tolkien's own
(03:45):
explanation for what he was doing. Pull up my kindle here,
all right, So this is what he says. Do not laugh.
But once upon a time, Mike Crest had long since fallen.
I had to make a body of more or less
connected legend, ranging from the large and cosmogonic to the
level of romantic fairy story. The larger founded on the
(04:08):
lesser in contact with the Earth, the lesser drawing splendor
from the vast backcloths. Who from the vast backcloths, which
I could dedicate simply to England, to my country, It
should possess the tone and quality that I desired somewhat
cool and clear, be redolent of our air, the climb
(04:28):
and soil of the northwest, meaning Britain in the hither
parts of Europe, not Italy or the Aegeans, still less
the East, and while possessing, if I could achieve it
the fair, elusive beauty that some call Celtic, though it
is rarely found in genuine ancient Celtic things, it should
be high, purged of the gross, and fit for the
more adulta mind of a land long now steeped in poetry,
(04:49):
I would draw some of the great tales in fullness,
and leave many only placed in the scheme and sketched.
The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and
yet leave scope for other minds and hands wielding paint
and music and drama. Absurd got a little for clemped there. Apologies. Yeah,
so Tolkien here is kind of you know, giving, you know,
(05:09):
just imagine him, you know. And this this is this
is a letter he wrote to a Perspective publisher. This
was before we had Lord of the Rings, the film million,
you know. Essentially, this is a guy who at this point,
about fifteen years earlier, I mean just at that point,
it's like a whole era earlier had published one book,
(05:31):
one pretty well known book, The Hobbit, and had not
published anything since then, I mean anything in that same
kind of realm. He published other things that weren't really
as popular and had nothing to do with Middle Earth.
But here he is, to a perspective, publisher, and he's
baring his soul, you know, about this like life's ambition,
this life's work. You know what his vision, his dream
(05:53):
of this thing would be. He calls it absurd, and
I always chuckle at that, because we've gotten into some
missing discussions on this on this channel, in the YouTube
comments about what he meant by that, you know, calling
it absurd. There. My take on it is he was
he was not actually thinking that, he was not actually
(06:14):
calling it absurd, but he was kind of it's kind
of blushing, right, you know, Okay, here's what I'm doing.
I know it's a little probably sounds really stupid to you,
I know, but it's really what I want to do. Right.
So he's explaining that the dream of this thing, the
whole Middle Earth legendaryum, began in this idea, this really
kind of big vision of creating a mythology for England,
(06:38):
and you know, he may have left that behind and
to some degree, like over time, although you know, you
could make the case that most of the stories of
the film Relion kind of have that feel to him.
But but yeah, he was. He was basically saying, this
was my dream once upon a time. And you know
by this time, by the way he is, he is
(06:59):
almost sixty, right, if not sixty when he writes this letter, right,
So he's not a you know, he's not an ambitious
twenty five year old at this point. He is much older,
and he's revealing his dream to this perspective publisher, and
he wants to tell something that includes all different kinds
of genres of fiction. Right, So that's that's all included
(07:21):
in this. Tolkien had a strong muse, we might say,
the sense of recording what was already there something or somewhere,
not of inventing. Right. So he says this a little later,
let me see if I can pull this quote up
right here, he says, where is it? Yes, there we go.
Yet always I had the sense of recording what was
(07:43):
already there somewhere, not of inventing. For Tolkien, these stories
were not just something he was kind of making up.
He was kind of willing himself to make up. But
these were stories that kind of came to him from somewhere, right,
And you know, this is that idea of the muse, Right.
He didn't really know where they came from, but he
felt this urge to record, to record these things that
(08:05):
were already there. This is where it gets kind of mystical, right,
It's really fascinating stuff. But that's what he aimed to
accomplish with these stories of the First Age. And the
stories of the First Age are the stories that precede everything.
They proceed Lord of the Rings, They precede the stories
of Numenor in their conception, right, not just in the
terms of being chronologically first in the legendary of Middle Earth,
(08:25):
but in the whole process of Tolkien conceiving the entire
history of Middle Earth. Right, these stories, the stories of
the First Age, came first. It's this quality, the sense
of recording, of just being driven to make it, to
capture the realness of what it seemed, of how it
(08:46):
seemed to him. That's what makes it feel so real
to us as readers. Right. It results in this quality
of enchantment, which for Tolkien was one of the key
things that needs to happen with good fairy tales. With
good fantasy, it needs to enchant the readers so that
it's not this thing where they're suspending disbelief, being like okay,
I'll play along, you know, but it's not this game
(09:06):
of charades. But it's this like it's it's like you
start hearing these stories and you're like, wow, this just
seems so real, and like the best fiction always does
this right, whether it's true stories or not. It puts
you into the situation and it's told so well that
it just feels absolutely real to you, and it's engrossing
in that way. The best fiction tends to do this.
(09:29):
Sibley also quote quote. Sibley also quotes Tolkien little Tongue
Tied Today. Sibley also quotes Tolkien on the role that
invented languages played in the development of the Legendarium and
their role in giving names to the various characters. Out
of these languages are made nearly all of the names
that appear in My Legends. This gives a certain character,
a cohesion, a consistency of linguistic style, and an illusion
(09:52):
of historicity to the nomenclature or so I believe that
is markedly lacking in other comparable things. So, in other words,
is saying that languages really drove what he was doing
his creative process. Tolkien. You probably you might know Tolkien
was a philologist by profession, so someone who studies, who
(10:13):
studies languages and the development of languages in the history
of languages. This is his lifelong passion. This what drove
him to create his own languages. The created language thing
really precedes Middle Earth, and Tolkien began doing this and
it's almost like he created these languages and then he's like,
I need stories to go along with these languages, and
(10:34):
stories have the power to give new meaning towards give deeper,
richer meaning to words. So for Tolkien, these two things,
there was kind of an interplay between the stories of
the Legendarium and the languages that he was creating all along.
So you know, he created a couple of different forms
of elevition that eventually he would create a language for Numenor,
(10:54):
which well I'm sure we'll talk about it at some
later point in this series. And he created a language
for Dwarf as well. Now, these languages were never like
fully fully finished languages, but some of them were more
further developed than others. So anyway, very interesting, very fascinating
sort of process he had going on there. All right.
(11:16):
So one another interesting section here is when Tolkien kind
of summarizes for us what the Legendarium is all about.
This is like a two paragraph summary of the especially
the stories of the selm Million. What the silmar Million
is all about, he says, The main body of the tale,
the silm Million proper, is about the fall of the
most gifted kindred of the Elves, their exile from Vallenor,
(11:38):
a kind of paradise, the home of the gods and
the furthest West, their re entry into Middle Earth, the
land of their birth, but long under the rule of
the enemy, and their strife with him, the power of
evil still visibly incarnate. It receives its name because the
events are all threaded upon the fate and significance of
the Silmarili, the radiance of pure light or primeval jewels.
But the Silmarilli were more than just beautiful things. As such,
(12:01):
there was light. There was the light of Valinor, made
visible in the two trees of silver and gold. These
were slain by the enemy out of malice, and Valinor
was darkened, though from them ere they died utterly. Were
derived the lights of Sun and Moon. A marked difference
here between these legends and most others is that the
sun is not a divine symbol, but a second best thing.
In the light of the Sun, the world under the
(12:22):
sun become terms for a fallen world in a dislocated,
imperfect vision. But the chief artificer of the Elves, Fhanor,
had imprisoned the light, had imprisoned Let me start over.
But the chief artificer of the Elves, Fanor, had imprisoned
the light of Valanore. In the three Supreme Jewels, the
(12:43):
silm really before the trees were sullied or slain. This
light thus lived thereafter only in these gems. The fall
of the elves comes about through the possessive attitude of
Fanor and his seven sons to these gems. They are
captured by the enemies, set in his iron crown, and
guarded in his impenetrable stronghold. The sons of fan Or
take a terrible and blasphemous oath of enmity and vengeance
(13:04):
against all or any even of the gods who dares
to claim any part or right in the Silmarili they
pervert the greater part of their kindred, who rebel against
the gods and depart from Paradise and go to make
hopeless war upon the enemy. The first fruits of their
fall is war and paradise, the slaying of elves by elves,
and this and their evil oath dogs all their later heroism,
(13:26):
generating the treacheries and undoing all victories. The Silmarillion is
the history of the war of the exiled elves against
the enemy, which all takes place in the northwest of
the world Middle Earth. Several tales of victory and tragedy
are caught up in it, but it ends with catastrophe
in the passing of the ancient world, the world of
the long First Age. The jewels are recovered by the
(13:47):
final intervention of the gods, only to be lost forever
to the elves, one in the sea, one in the
depths of the earth, and one as a star of heaven.
This legendarium ends with a vision of the end of
the world, its breaking and remaking in the recovery. The
summer really and the light before the sun, so really,
The Silmarillion you know, is the story of this creation
(14:11):
of this world, and into this world, these godlike figures,
the val are entering, the creation of the two trees,
which give off this you know, sort of divine light, right,
this like this light that isn't just normal light like
we think of it, but it's a light that kind
of penetrates to the very depths of the soul. It's
an incredibly beautiful light, a truly valuable light, holy light,
(14:31):
if you will. And and then this Silmerillion, kind of
the silm really, these three holy jewels being created that
capture some of this light. The two trees are destroyed
by the evil Melchor later termed more goth And and
then a bunch of the elves who live in this
(14:52):
blessed realm of allan Or where the two trees were
led by fan Or, the one who created the Selmrillion,
they swear this oath and they and they go back
across the ocean to the land of Balerion to try
and reclaim these jewels and the story. So that's kind
of the first half of the story. The second half
of the story is about the further struggles of these
elves who have left Vaalen or who have left the
(15:13):
Blessed Realm to attempt to recover these three jewels from
more Goth and to defeat more Goth. Okay, that's really
the summary of it all. And there's so much more
of these stories. Obviously, you know, you should really read
the silm Million. Hope you will if you have not
read it already. But that kind of sets the stage
for the stories of the Second Age, the story of
the Fall of numenor that will come later. So Tolkien
(15:38):
mentions that it's really, you know, really the first sort
of like fifty percent, maybe even almost two thirds of
the silm Irillion proper. There are no men. Men don't
really enter into the story until later. It's all elves.
It's all these immortal creatures. You know, think of elves
essentially as men, but immortal, right, and so they're they're
different in several ways. They're different in their nature, but
(16:02):
they're kind of like the kindred of men, right, It's
just that men are mortals men. The introduction of men
into the story changes things. It makes the stories less
mythical and more like stories and romances. Tolkien calls Baron
and Luthian the chief of the stories, even going so
far as to comment that it introduces the motif of
the small being greater than the powerful, the same motif
(16:25):
that would be fully realized by the introduction of Hobbits
into the Legendarium. So the story of Baron Luthian is
really key. And if there's any one story that I'd
recommend that you read in the film Million before trying
to understand the stories of the Second Age, it would
be the story of Baron and Luthian. It's a fantastic,
just standalone chapter. It's chapter nineteen in the film Million.
It's a fantastic story all by itself. You'gnize saw Ron
(16:48):
plays a major role in the story, so you'll recognize him.
So it's one of these silmrillion stories that actually is
a little bit recognizable if your only frame of reference
is the Lord of the Rings in that story. And
it's really important in setting the stage. And we'll actually
get into this more when we talk about the next
chapter and kind of start getting into the history of
(17:08):
the Second Age itself. But it's important because Baron and
Luthian are our ancestors to both el Rond and l Ros,
who are key figures in the stories of the Second Age.
L Ros is the first king of Numenor, and el
Rond is his brother. El Ros chooses the path of mortality,
l Ron chooses the path of immortality. They're half Elvin,
(17:30):
they're half Alvin. What's really interesting about the two figures
of Baron and Luthian. Baron is a mortal man. Luthian
is an immortal she elf, but an elf maiden. But
she's actually half Elf. She's half Elf and half Maya,
which is a divine being. Right, it's one of these
lesser gods. Right, So her parents are Thingle, an elf king,
(17:56):
and Melion, who is a who is a divined She's
a lesser goddess essentially, right. So we can look at
that and we can say, wow, figures like el Rond,
el Ros, these people are actually descended from divine beings, right,
from a divine being. It's pretty fascinating to consider, and
(18:20):
it's actually really fascinating when you consider the downstream implications
for characters and some of the characters and Lord of
the Rings even beyond el Rond. So but we'll talk
about all that in due time, all right. When it
comes to the Second Age, the thing that is so
important to understand about the story of Baron and Luthian
is that it leads to the elf Man hybrid race
that would become the new Minorian line of kings and queens,
(18:40):
as well as other well known figures in the Legendarium
such as el Rond. The stories of the Selm Marillion
are extremely rich and are worth the time of any
serious Tolkien fan, so I invite you to pick up
a copy and check out our various podcast episodes on
the Selm Marillion itself. You can also learn more about
the story of Baron and Luthian and really kind of
like the whole thrust of the First Age by picking
(19:03):
up a copy of my book, Tolkien's Requiem, you know,
called a shameless plug if you will, But lots of
people have told me they've been helped by that book.
It's it's a really it's a fairly briefly it's not
going to take you very long to read, but it's
a really great little introduction via the story of Baron
and Luthian, and I think it's a great path to
go down if you really want to understand the stories
of the First Age, before you'd full head on dive in,
(19:26):
just you know, to each of them, because it can
get pretty complex from there. All right, So that is
that is before the second age. That's our that's the
main content of what we're we covering in this episode.
Let's hit some correspondence. I'm going to look at a
note from Michael h On sent on January first of
(19:51):
twenty twenty three. Right, Michael, says hi, I just finished
your episode on the Ruin of Dorieth twenty twenty two.
So the first five times I read the Silmarillion, I
didn't really notice or find it remarkable that the Selmrillion
and now Glomir were delivered to Dior. And it seems
that you didn't find it that remarkable either. But that
(20:13):
unnamed self elf lord from Assyrian must be one of
the very few beings in all of Middle Earth's history
that could resist the lust for the Silmaril. It got
me thinking of Tom Bambadil and how unimpressed and unbothered
he was by the ring. It made me think of Sam.
I don't know if there's enough material in there for
a whole show, but the resistance to temptation seems remarkable
(20:34):
and worth looking into. Yeah, it's definitely interesting, you know.
I definitely hadn't picked up on that before, but you're right,
it's right there. I'm gonna read this passage from the Silmarillion,
chapter twenty two, just to tell you what Michael's referring to.
There there came a night of autumn, and when it
grew late, one came and smote upon the doors of Metagroth,
demanding admittance to the king. He was a lord of
(20:55):
the green Elves, hastening from Assyrian, and the door wards
brought him to where Dior alone sat. Dior sat alone
in his chamber, and there in silence he gave to
the king a coffer and took his leave. But in
the coffer lay the necklace of the dwarves, wherein was
set the sel Merle, and Dior, looking upon it, knew
it for a sign that Baron er Kamion and Luthian
Tanuvil had died. Indeed, and gone were, and gone, where
(21:18):
go the race of men to a fate beyond the world.
So Dior is the son of Baron and Luthian, the
only child of Baron and Luthian, And from Dior will
descend eventually El Rondon el Rose. Just to tie it
back into our main content here today. But the thing
that Michael is referring to here is this Elfloor who's
mentioned in passing, and the fact that here he had
(21:41):
with him this Somemarle, which everyone else seems to be
tempted to want to take hold of. He has this
sell Merle, and for some reason he's not tempted. Now, Michael,
for me, I look at this and I think maybe
maybe he he wasn't aware that that's what he was carrying.
Maybe he was just aware that he this kind of
sacred mission and from Baron and Luthian, and he had
(22:05):
to deliver this to this this other person, But he
wasn't entirely in the know of about what he what
he had, right, That's one possibility. Maybe he did know
and he You're right, he was just more resistant to
the lure of it. I mean, there are characters within
the Legendarium, and and you know Tom Bombadil is one
(22:26):
you brought up. That's a big one. Sam seems to have,
you know, a great strength to resist the the lure
of the ring as well. I would also say that
Audi Goren seems to have that ability, and and even
figures like Galadriel and Gandalf, even though they show temptation
at times, they don't give into that temptation even when
(22:50):
they could, right, And it could be that this elf lord, uh,
you know, was just kind of that strong against temptation.
He was of the same sort of character in that
regard as Galadriel or Gandolf, that he just had the resistance.
So it's either that he didn't know what he had
or he was just of that enough character. And I
(23:11):
have to think that if Baron and Luthian were gonna
entrust this mission to him, either they didn't tell him
or they they knew. He was of the character to
resist the temptation to take this for his own, to
kind of seize it for his own. I think that's
entirely possible. So so there you go. That's that's my
read of that particular question. It's a really good question,
(23:33):
and you know, good on you for picking it up
and noticing that particular detail. Wanted to read this note
also from j D. I believe it's j D. Yeah,
here we go, JD s. JD says, Hello, John and Greta.
Just wanted to send a quick note to say that
I've been enjoying the podcast I'm a relatively new Tolkien fan,
(23:54):
though I read The Hobbit do. I read The Hobbit
many years ago in high school. It wasn't until about
five years ago that I read Lay the Rings for
the first time. I was enthralled by the world of
Middle Earth. I've reread Lord of the Rings and The
Hobbit several times now and have begun to delve into
some of the Tolkiennyan scholarship, such as the writings of
Joseph Pierce. I also just recently read John's book, Tolkien's Overture.
(24:15):
Hope you enjoyed it. Now, I think it's time for
me to dive into the rest of the legendarium. Would
you recommend the Silm Million next, or is there a
better place to go before jumping into that tone? Well, JD.
I would say, definitely dive into the selm me Million.
You know, if you've read Lord of the Rings, if
you've read The Hobbit, then you know, I think it's
definitely worth going down the road of the Silm Million.
(24:36):
You know, we've tried to provide a lot of resources
to help you get started there. You mentioned you've read
Tolkien's Overture. I don't think you'd said you'd read Tolkien's Requiem.
So if you haven't read Tolkien's Rockem, you know, I
recommend picking up a copy. But here's the thing I'm
gonna say this. I'm a big believer, and try to
read the Silm Marillion yourself first, see what you can
do with it. And if if you have that much
(24:56):
trouble and you need to go to my book first,
then that's what you know. It's I'm happy for you
to do that, But I never want to tell people
to read my read my book first before you read
because I want you to be able to appreciate, if
kind of unfiltered and unadulterated from whatever perspective I might
bring to it. So I hope that you can make
(25:16):
that journey like by yourself. And I wouldn't say necessarily
that you couldn't, like listen to our podcast episodes on
these particular things after you've read a chapter. It's just
that I want you to be able to really appreciate
what Tolkien wrote himself before you read my take or
anybody else's take on what it's about, on what it means.
(25:37):
You know. I just think there's value in that going
directly to the source and attempting that. But that being said,
it is a challenging work. So whatever help my you know,
my work in the book Tolkien's Requiem or my work
on the podcast would be to you. I'm happy that
it does that, so hopefully that hope that helps JD
and and I would give that same advice to anybody
(25:58):
else who's in the same as shoes as j all Right, well,
that is it for this episode. Please subscribe, rate, and
review us on iTunes or the platform of your choice.
If you are a five star fan of The Tolkien Road,
you can really help us out by heading over to
iTunes or your preferred source for the show and dropping
us a rating and review. When you do that, it
helps get the word out about the Tolkien Road, which
helps us to keep on evering on. Drop us a line,
(26:22):
just like JD and Michael YouTube in the comments, Tolkienoad
dot com, email, Tolkienroadpodcast gmail dot com, Twitter, or wherever
you can find us. We'll do our best to respond
to you somehow and at some point. Thank you to
our amazing patrons, especially the following John R. Caitlin, f
t with Tolkien, Jacob Lockham, John h AREEW twenty seven,
Emilio P, Jonathan D, Mike M, Robert H. Paul D,
(26:45):
Julia Wordy, Joe Bagelman, Jacob S, Richard K, Matt R.
Matthew W. Garrett P. Chris K, John W. Eugene D,
Chris B, Daniel S, seb M, Shane Is Supreme mis Anonymous,
Andrew T. Red Hawk, Shannon S. Brian Zeke F, James L,
Chris L, Chuck f Azya VI issue of The Hammer,
(27:05):
Teresa C. David of Pines with Jack, Eric B and
Johanna T. Thank you all so much for your support.
We truly appreciate all of our patrons, and we appreciate
everybody watching and we're listening. We'll talk at you next time.
Bye bye
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