The Fall of Númenor » Pt 6 » "The Geography of Númenor" » The Tolkien Road Episode 330

In this episode, we continue our journey through The Fall of Númenor with "The Geography of Númenor". How big was the Land of Gift? What was it like? Did it have any cities? In the latest episode, we’re going to cover everything you ever wanted to know about the Star-Land itself. Join us!
And here’s the really exciting part: I’ve got a brand-new book on the way, Tolkien’s Tragedy: Concerning Númenor, The Rings of Power, and the Second Age. It’s the culmination of years of study, and I believe it’ll change the way you look at Tolkien’s legendarium.
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey there, fellowship, Welcome to the Tolkien Road. In this episode,
we continue our journey through the Fall of Numenor with
the geography of Numenor. How big was the land of Gift?
What was it like? Did it have any cities? In
the latest episode, we're going to cover everything you ever
wanted to know about the Land of Numenor itself. Join us,
and as a reminder, I've got a brand new book

(00:21):
on the way Tolkien's Tragedy concerning Numenor, the Rings of
Power and the Second Age. It's the culmination of years
of study, and I believe it'll change the way you
look at Tolkien's legendarium. If you're enjoying this series, make
sure you head over to tolkienrooad dot substack dot com and subscribe.
That's where you'll get early chapters of Tolkien's Tragedy and
all the behind the scenes insights I only share with

(00:41):
my readers. All right, let's dive in. Hey there, fellow travelers,
Welcome to the Tolkien Road, Episode three thirty. In this episode,
we'll be continuing our journey through the Fall of Numenor
as we explore the geography of Numenor. Bear with me
here Before I get started, I'd like to give a
double up air five to our amazing fellowship. Hands up,

(01:05):
stick them up, three two one woopsht felt it coming
through from each and every one of you. Special thanks
to this episode's executive producers, John R. Caitlin of T
with Tolkien, Jacob Lockhom, John H and Aeru twenty seven.
Also a shout out to those celebrating their fellowship anniversary
in March of twenty twenty three. Jacobs, Peter B. Paul D.

(01:27):
Steven S, Jay Z, bethany E, Daniel D. Caitlin of
T with Tolkien, Thank you all so much for sticking
with us over the last year. Join the Fellowship of
the Road by visiting patreon dot com slash Tolkien Road.
When you join the fellowship, it helps us to keep
on evering on, So head on over to patreon dot
com slash Tolkien Road to learn more YouTube, hit that

(01:48):
like button, don't forget to subscribe, and let us know
what's on your mind in the comments below. All Right,
so you may be thinking what could possibly be more
boring than writing about geography? But the thing about Tolkien
as a writer is that no fact or detail is
ever without significance and meaning, and that certainly applies to

(02:09):
the geography of Numenor. Consider the last episode in which
we discussed the creation of Numenor. It was an island
literally raised out of the sea by a god and
enriched by other gods. Everything in Numnor would seem to
have a purpose, even if that purpose is not readily apparent.
But one thing you will immediately notice, the land of

(02:30):
Numenor has a very distinctive shape. Let's take a look
at that here. So, by the way, if you're listening
to this, this one will be a very We'll have
a lot of visuals in this episode if you want
to head on over to YouTube to check it out.
Try to make it my best for those who are
just listening though as well. So check out this map
of Numenor here that's found in the Fall of Numenor.

(02:53):
You'll notice it very much looks like the shape of
a star. It's got five distinctive peninsulas jutting out from
a central land mass, and it, you know, it really
forms what we in our minds think of as that
pentangle right like that, that distinctive star shape. Of course,
there's other shapes that are known as the star. But

(03:14):
I say, at least in the culture that I grew up,
in the culture that I'm a part of, the five star,
the five promontory star shape is the most common one
the pentangle, so it takes on this symbolic star shape.
And then recall that the peoples of nu Minor were
led to it over the sea by the star of Airendel.

(03:36):
The idea of a star seems to be highly important
to Numenor. But I will say one important thing though.
The five promontories all end with the root star right
on dou star, four rostar orostar right. This is actually
just the Quinyan word for land or part. So if
you go back to the last episode, we talked a
little bit about Quinya, what that language is, and it's

(03:58):
essentially the High Elvish speak. Okay, the High Elvish speech,
and it's important to the history of Numenor. But understand
that that's why these things, these regions have these names.
It's not because Tolkien's saying, hey, these are parts of
the starland. He's saying, these are their names in Quinya, right,
and that star just means land. And we're going to

(04:18):
see how that plays out for each of those promontories. Okay, well,
let's dive into the text here. So the sources for
this particular section the geography of Numenor, are actually pretty straightforward.
We've got unfinished tales and we've got the nature of
Middle Earth, So those two things are where most of
the text here is pulled from. Most of the writings

(04:39):
here are pulled from, the first two paragraphs of this
chapter give us some good introductory material for this subject.
Notice that Tolkien takes care to describe how we have
this knowledge, right, how we have knowledge of Numenora and
of its shape and what it was like in the
first place. It's not enough for Tolkiens simply to tell

(05:01):
us what it's like, but he describes how this knowledge
has come down to us. And it turns out that
it's not particularly well preserved in terms of original documents,
but is instead a few steps removed from original sources
and descriptions. And that's really important. Like if you go
back and look at Tolkien's sort of original writings between
the Lost Road and his writings on in the Notion

(05:24):
Club papers, where kind of this this story of Numenor
was first dreamed up you'll see that it was always
kind of this mysterious thing. It was always this thing
that somebody was kind of had had some sort of knowledge,
some sort of amorphous knowledge of from a from distant past.
Numanor is this land of a distant past. Okay, So
it's not something where like Tolkien is saying like this

(05:45):
is exactly like we have an in scientific detail. He's
simply saying, like, these are the memories that have been
handed down to us, and it's not always exactly clear
how they came to us, but these are some of
the sources that we think is how it came to us.
And he's writing from the perspective of the end of
the third Age. Neumanor ceased to be at the end
of the second Age, so there's like three thousand years
of history that have transpired. And this isn't This isn't

(06:07):
our modern culture where we are able to document things
so efficiently and kind of store them everywhere. This is
in terms of even ancient cultures and how they would
have to document things. You think about how little we
know of just so many different, so many different ancient
cultures which once upon a time were, as far as
we understand these incredible cultures, right, the Babylonian Empire, even

(06:30):
things that pre existed that we really don't know a
ton about those places. We don't have a ton of
information about what they were like, but we know that
they were very impressive for their time. But all this
indicates an important sub theme for Tolkien's Middle Earth writings.
How do we come to know something? The question of epistemology,
That's what that is. How do you know what you know? Right?

(06:52):
The question of epistemology is a crucial one for any scholar,
and really for any human being being in dealing with
matters of imports ordons. Okay, you know, it's a question
that each of us should be asking ourselves on a
day to day basis. You know, it's kind of a
quality of that of the examined life. Like the well
examined life. You want to take a look at different

(07:14):
aspects of your life and say, you know, how do
I know this to be true? Right? And and how
reliable is this information? You know? Am I living? Am
I basing my life on things that are you know,
maybe maybe not as reliable as I once thought they were? Right?
And those are important questions for us as human beings.
But on a literary level, it also increases the sense

(07:34):
of verisimilitude, this quality that pervades the writings of Middle Earth,
this idea that Tolkien was writing about real things, even
if they were in fact a fading memory. It's just
it's part of that that enchantment that he's able to give,
that he's able to impart to his writings, that these
seem like real things. It seems like he's documenting, he's

(07:55):
documenting actual cultures, actual events as he tells these stories.
And for me, it's one of the most engrossing aspects
of the way he writes and of the whole legendarium
of Middle Earth. Okay, so let's take a look at
the shape of Numenor. So, Numnor, as we mentioned, is
shaped like a star. Right, It's got five promontories, five

(08:18):
peninsulas that jut out in different directions from a central
land mass, and that central land mass is called the
Mittal Mar. Right, the Mittalmar, the mid Tallmar is two
hundred and fifty miles across in all directions. So I
wanted to just as we talk about the size of Numenor,
I wanted to kind of use a little Google Maps

(08:38):
action here to to give you all some visuals as
far as how big some of these dimensions are. So
for this central land mass, I was able to look
at kind of if you think of the middle the
middle of the of the island of Britain. Hold on,
let me make sure clearly you're a measurement there, all right,
measure distance starting here oops to here. No, that's not working. There,

(09:08):
we go there, we go. Okay, so and it doesn't
seem to be showing up particularly well. But you can
see down here it's supposed to show up here on
the line. But if you look down here, if I
measure kind of this middle portion of the island of

(09:28):
I suppose the island what's the right term, Britain, Britannia,
the island that includes England, Wales and Scotland. If you
go from really like the the western tip of Wales
right the farthest west tip of Wales, and you go
up to the eastern porsche the eastern coast of the

(09:49):
island that is parallel with Manchester, that's about two hundred
and fifty miles. So you can kind of look at that,
you know, that area, and that's the size in all
directions of the region of Mental Mar. This this central
portion of New Minor. Now we also learn about these

(10:10):
five different promontories what their names are. Basically, we have
four oh star and I'll come back to our map here.
I'm gonna go to our map of New Minor so
we can look at these all. Right, So we have
we have four Roh Star, which is the northern promontory.
We have Ondu Star, which is the western promontory. We

(10:30):
have higher Rounstar, higher a newstar, excuse me, higher Newstar
which is the southwestern promontory, higher Rostar which is the
southeastern promontory, and Aurostar, which is the eastern promontory. Now,
as I mentioned, the suffolk star in Quinya or the
root star if you will, means just placed or land right.

(10:53):
So these different prefixes indicate the direction right, So fur
right would mean north. If you think of like the
photoed Wight from the maps of of you know, is
it Balerion or is it Third Age map? I can't remember,
but it indicates a northern It indicates a northern region.
On du Star. Okay, what do we talk about Ondunie

(11:14):
right on dunayk this is the this is the prefix
that has to do with western things. So Ondu star
is the western land, okay, hier rounstar higher I'm sorry,
higher new star, I'll get it right. Eventually would be
the south. So we think of high, right, that's the
south prefix. If we higher higher rostar and higher new star,

(11:34):
higher newstar indicates the southwestern, higher rostar indicates the southeastern.
And then we look at autostar, which is the ore,
which indicates the east. All right, So autostar, higher star,
Hero newstar, Ondu Star, and photostar. Okay. So these are
our five promontories. We have north West, Southwest, southeast, and east. Okay,

(11:57):
so those are the different the different regions, the differ
for promontories in addition to the matalmar. Now let's go back.
Let's go back to our map Google maps. I want
to talk about the actual size of the island when
you take into account these promontories. Okay, So we said
the center region, the central region is about two hundred
and fifty miles in either direction. Roughly, the text says

(12:21):
these different peninsulas are about two hundred miles in length each, Okay,
two hundred miles in length, and then one hundred miles across.
Just generally speaking, that's kind of the general size of
these things, right, not exact dimensions, but general size. So
what does that mean? Well, if you went from if
you went from the tip of Dustar here right, the

(12:44):
westernmost tip of Onndustar all the way to the southwestern
southeastern tip of Hierostar. Okay, how far would that be? Well,
add on two hundred two hundred miles for each one
of those peninsulas, right, So that's four hundred miles, and
then you add the six two hundred and fifty miles
of the of the width of the mittele Mar right

(13:07):
of the diameter of the mintal Mar. Okay, So that
gives you a number of roughly six hundred and fifty
miles all right, six hundred and fifty miles. So what
kind of size are we talking about there? So, uh,
it's actually I'll use two things to indicate this. So
if we look at France, modern France, the dimensions of

(13:29):
modern France using its current borders. Ope, clear, measurement here
we go. Measure distance, all right, Oh it's not working now,
I want it to measure distance there we go. All right,

(13:52):
if you look at that from the northwestern tip of
France to the southwestern end or southeastern end of France,
it's about six hundred and twenty three miles. Okay, so
that's getting pretty close to the dimension, the kinds of
dimensions we're talking about here. So you can roughly think
in your mind, and even in my mind when I
look at modern France, like the shape of Nu Minor

(14:14):
kind of resembles modern France to me. So you can
get in your mind that Newmanor is roughly the size
of is roughly the size of France, of modern France.
If we can do a comparison for those of US
state side, and because you know, in my case, have
never actually been to France, but I have driven through Texas.

(14:36):
And if you do a similar similar calculation here with Texas,
you begin on the over near El Paso, and yeah,
it just doesn't want to work the same. Okay, here
we go. I think it has something to do with
my video recording software doesn't want to cooperate entirely. But
if you look, if you go from roughly l Paso,

(14:57):
which is a far western tip of Texas, and you
go all the way to just south of Houston on
the Gulf Coast. That's a little over six hundred and
fifty miles six hundred and eighty miles, so roughly the
same distance there. And if you know, for me having
driven driven across Texas not that way, but from El
Paso through Dallas up into Arkansas before, just in fact

(15:21):
last year, I know how long a drive that was,
and it was it was just kind of impressive to
see all this vast, wide open land there. So you know,
you think about it, and you know, France of course
has a much longer history in terms of its current civilization,
so it's it's it's really built up, you know, quite

(15:41):
a bit. So I don't imagine that you've got as
much open space as you would drive from that one
distance to the other there. But with Texas, you know,
you drive through a large portion of that between El
Paso and Dallas, and a lot of it's just going
to be open, like nothing is there. So it's a
really good indication I think of what numan or how
vast it must have seemed to these ancient peoples when
they arrived there in the first place. So yeah, I

(16:03):
am a little bit of a geography nerd, Thank you
very much. I like to play around on Google Maps.
There you go. Okay, so that's that's what we're talking about.
So from one end to the other, roughly six hundred
and fifty miles, that's the size of nu Minor. Now
one other note on on the shape of Nu Minor.
There is a small region in the Mittalmar, the central

(16:25):
portion known as Arandor, and that is the if you will,
kind of the it's called the that means the king lands,
and it's, if you will, the district of Columbia of Numnor.
It's this small region right here. Okay. It includes Romana,
it includes Arminellos, which are the two kind of most
important cities in Numenor. And then it includes the mental Tarma,

(16:49):
which is this mountain, the three thousand foot high mountain
that rises above the rest of the rest of Nu Minor. Okay,
at least the region is around it. So in the
Middle Mar there were few trees. It was mainly grasslands
and low downs, and the chief feature of the Middle
Mar was the great mountain, the Mintle Tarma. It means

(17:11):
Mintle Tarma literally means the pillar of heavens. It rose
three thousand feet above the land around it. And in
keeping with the star shape of the island, the Mindle
Tarma was located almost exactly in the middle of the island,
and it's five roots extended out in the directions of
the five promontories. Okay. So even the base of this
central mountain right, which would have kind of loomed over

(17:33):
probably most of the rest of the island. Right, even that,
if you looked at it top down, had a star
shaped to it. Okay, So interesting to note there as well,
Star the Star theme comes back in. It really does
seem like Numenor is kind of like this land of
the Star, right, okay, And what is that all about? Well,
the Middle Tarma will have much more to say about
that in later episodes. It was a very important place,

(17:54):
even a holy place to the people of Numenor the
northern region is the Photo Star, all right, so the
north lands really the thing the most important thing about
the Photo Star, at least off the bat, is that
it seems to have been a home to a lot
of eagles. Okay. It wasn't the most hospitable, friendly place.

(18:15):
It wasn't particularly friendly to either the new Minorians or
to or to any kind of agricultural or even just
wild vegetation. It was not a it was not really
a home to any of those things. It was kind
of a rocky, craggy place, but it was a home
to eagles. That's one thing that we know with Ondu

(18:35):
Star the western promontory, these are the westlands. The most
important thing probably to note here is well a couple
of things. So we have this, We have another port
city on this other side on Dunie right, and this
will this will be an important location later in the
history of Numenor. But we also have this this port
here kind of midway between Ondu Star and Higher Roun.

(19:00):
Higher News starts kind of like on the borderlands of
these two. And what is this, Well, it's el Delande, Okay,
So this is literally means the haven of the Eldar,
and this is where the Eldar coming from toll Ersea.
The elves coming from toll Erisea would visit Numenor right
throughout its history. So this is important to note and
something again will come up again later. The elves of

(19:22):
Risea would visit Numnor from time to time, and you
could look on clear days from different portions of Numenor
and you could see a light in the west, and
they thought it was the light of the Blessed Realm.
It was actually the light of this island, Arisea. And
what Arasea is you would learn a lot more about
it if you've read the Selm Marillion, But Arisea is

(19:43):
essentially this large island that was used by the sea
god Olmo to transport the elves from baleriand over to
the Blessed Realm before the First Age. Okay, so some
of these elves made this journey initially and became part
of the peoples of the Blessed Realm. And this island

(20:06):
of Ersea, this large island was used as kind of
this ship right to transport these peoples, and eventually it
was moored there at the edge of the Blessed Realm.
So it's kind of the first place you come to
if you're if you're sailing west towards the Blessed Realm
would be the island of Risea. So that's what they're
talking about here. There were still elves that lived there
in the time of the Second Age. A lot of

(20:27):
the elves lived even further into the Blessed Realm, but
some of them still lived in Erasea and Uh and
these elves and the Newmnorians got to know each other
over time. Okay, so you think, like we talked the
last episode about how uh, you know, uh aonway shared
a lot of knowledge with the Neumanorians, with the with
the Dying the Dunodyne before they came to uh, before

(20:51):
they came to Numnor where well, I would assume that
the the elves of Ersea continued to enrich the peoples
of Numnor with Nolge, with gifts, with things like that
over time, and and we'll actually learn a little bit
more about that later on as well. Next we have
if we're kind of going counterclockwise, here, we have the

(21:12):
Hyer New Star and the Hero Star. Right, these are
the Southwest and the Southeast promontories. Okay, the southwest Lands
and the Southeast Lands. So this region was safe from
the harshest weather and climates of New Minor. You kind
of think of like the movement of the winds maybe
going from west to east or east to west. Well,

(21:35):
because of where it was situated, this land down south
was maybe the most hospitable, you know, just kind of
a farer region, if you will. And over time, it
became became really cultivated, right, so much it became a
kind of a fertile agricultural region due to some of

(21:57):
the work the new Minorians put into it and developing it.
And it was also beach country. You read about the
beaches that are described here, and it actually sounds like,
you know, as opposed to some of the other places
where there was kind of rocky here and maybe harder
to get to the beaches. This seems to be more
of what most of us would probably have in mind
for a nice beach vacation. And then finally the older
star right the eastern Promontory, the east Lands. So what

(22:20):
we know here is that much grain was grown here,
especially in the regions adjacent to the King's Land. All right,
So a couple so we've looked at this map of Numen,
or very you know, very interesting map that we have
available to us here. And let's consider a couple of
the other pencil sketches in this. We have this sketch

(22:43):
of the what I would assume is the mental tarma.
Now I was thinking to myself, what perspective is this
drawn from? What are we looking? What are we looking at?
And my best guess is that we're either looking at
the mental Tarma from the south or from the west.
And I think the best guess is on the south,

(23:04):
because we know from this map of Newmanor that there
was a large river that flows south from the Mindle
Tarma and into this region here, and this is a
very important river. And we also know that right next
on the southeast in the south, to the southeast of

(23:24):
the Mintal Tarma was Armanelos, the capital city. And if
you look very faintly here at the image of this
pencil sketch, you'll see that there appears to be a
city right here right there appears to be some kind
of buildings, something going on right there. So my guess,
as we're looking at it from the south, now, it's

(23:46):
possible that it could also be a depiction from the west,
although if it was depiction from the west, I might
expect to see something of the el of the el
Delande here right the haven of the Elves, although that
could be kind of out of the picture at that point.
It's also possible this is later in history when there
may have been more settlement here and in this region,
which we didn't really discuss, but we know there is

(24:08):
a little more settlement in this region, and that perspective
would match there as well. But my money is on
the is on the idea that it is looking at
it from the south. So and then the other image
involved here is this interesting image of kind of a rocky, rocky,

(24:31):
rocky precipice with a waterfall. Now with this, my best
guess is that this is supposed to describe the last
this last section of the Order Star where it talks
about it ended in a sheer fault oceanic depths. That
looks like a sheer fault oceanic depths right there, So
I think that may be what's being depicted. Of course,

(24:52):
it could be something having to do with the Fluoro Star,
because we do see eagles here. But it's either the
four Road Star or it's the Order Star, is my
best guess that's being depicted here. Coast lands there all right. Well,
For most of us, geography is never the most fascinating topic,
but it nevertheless plays an important role in shaping and
influencing the development of any culture, and Tolkien seems to

(25:14):
have wanted us to understand this about Nu Minor, and
given that Nu Minor was a land specifically formed for
a specific people by the gods of Arta. We would
do well to realize that, at least when it comes
to Middle Earth, even the finest details may have a
greater significance than we immediately realize. All right, so let's
jump into some correspondence, shall we. The note for this

(25:38):
week comes from Ben Mason eleven sixty six, a YouTube
comment episode three thirteen, and this is response to and
I believe this was an episode where I shared some
thoughts on how I would have done the Rings of Power,
if you know, season one, having reflected back on it,
having seen the whole thing, how I would have coached it.

(26:00):
And Ben Mason eleven sixty six comments kind of an
agreement with some of my criticism, says, definitely agree with
all your points. I think the biggest sin of the
show is how lame Numenor feels. They should have put
most of their time into building that civilization, showcasing the
extraordinary men, technology and cities, and creating cool storylines within
Numenor beyond insulting to Tolkien's vision that they basically just

(26:23):
ripped a coast city out of Game of Thrones, except
with less interesting characters. And pointless storylines really cheapens the
feeling of great loss and sorrow when Numnor is less
advanced and has less impressive men than Gondor in the
Third Age. Yeah, I mean I would really agree with
you there, Ben. I was extremely underwhelmed by how they
depicted Numenor. It just did not seem particularly deep, real

(26:46):
impressive to me at all. It's people didn't seem that impressive.
It's the city what we saw of it didn't seem
that impressive. You know, it took Gladriel like thirty minutes
to ride from one end of the island to the other.
When we're talking, we now realize it's like, you know,
it should have been like six four hundred and fifty miles, right,

(27:06):
if you're thinking like Romix. She rides from Romana to
to the what's the city called? It's the one in
the west we mentioned, I mentioned it just a minute ago.
She rides from Romana. Of course the cities are never named,
but she rides from Romana to Ondunie, and that would
have been about four hundred and fifty miles. But yet

(27:28):
ain't no thing for Gladrail. She just does it and
has a good time. Doing it really kind of weird
good time based on the look on her face. Anyway,
it was. It was very disappointing. And you know, hopefully
through the course of doing this series and going through
the series and elaborating on some of the stuff that's
in this you know, really great book that was compiled

(27:49):
by Brian Sibley based on Tolkien's writings, and the course
of going through this, we're really going to pack a
lot of it and understand just how incredibly glorious this
place was and also the civilization that came to be
built up within it. Okay, So anyway, Ben, thank you
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forward to hearing from you again. All right, And I

(28:11):
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(28:31):
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