February 28, 2025 • 13 mins
China’s internet is famously walled off from the global web. Despite barriers including censorship and moderation practices, a unique Chinese digital ecosystem has flourished—and unexpectedly, attracted Americans. The recent temporary exodus of TikTok users to RedNote presented a rare opportunity for American and Chinese peoples to digitally interact on a large scale, sharing views and opinions on the Chinese internet’s own turf. Why is China’s internet so different from the global internet and in what ways can it be a bridge, or barrier, for online exchange?
Yaling Jiang joins the National Committee in an interview recorded on February 9, 2025 to introduce China's internet, its evolution, and forms of censorship that exist within it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
the internet is able toplay the most important role in fostering
(00:04):
mutual understanding However, internetor social media platform needs to be free.
in China, there's The Great Firewall.
top down censorship platform levelcensorship account level censorship.
more than half a million TikTokrefugees, flooded to RedNote,
still under effect of censorship
but we've seen a lot of humanto human exchange.
(00:27):
What are the most used
apps and websites in China,and how do they compare to Western ones?
the most used websites and apps inChina are WeChat, Weibo, Baidu.
Douyin, Kuaishou,Bilibili, and Xiaohongshu or RedNote.
Normally, established media watch
just say that they are similar to,for example, Google
(00:50):
or TikTok, or YouTube,but I don't think that's accurate anymore.
Of course, some of these platforms,like Baidu are direct copycats.
and Baiduis certainly a copycat of Google.
But in recent years, there emergesa lot more Chinese apps built for China,
and built for Chinese usersparticular user habits.
(01:12):
And I would say WeChat is a great example.
I think one last talked about point is
that people are using WeChatas if it's the Internet of China.
Almost everyone in China now has WeChat.
it's the default chat appit's also a super app,
(01:33):
meaning it's not just like WhatsAppwhere you can have conversations.
basically, because of the changein people's media consumption habit
over a decade ago,a lot of publishing accounts
and content, moved over to WeChat.
You can also read articlesbecause it has a built
a publishing platformcalled WeChat Official Account.
(01:54):
It also has a built in, application
ecosystem, WeChat mini apps.
It also has a short video channel.
You can also pay your utility billsand basically do everything on there.
So I would not compare itto WhatsApp anymore.
I would actually compare thatto what Google
(02:15):
or even what the internet can do,because you can also search in WeChat.
How does censorship workin China's internet?
I think there are two main driving forces.
One is tech, the other one's human.
Tech is only playingthe role of assistant, the most well-known
case is the golden shield projector in its nickname, The Great Firewall.
(02:38):
It was something that was put into placearound 20 years ago,
and domestic users are,
forbiddenfrom accessing certain foreign sites,
from Facebook to Google to certain newssites.
翻墙 (fanqiang) to climb over a wall,meaning use Virtual Private Network
(VPN) to change your user, IP domain
(03:02):
so that the internet recognize you
as, a user from other regions, not China.
So, you can access sites,
you typically don't have access toif you live in China.
and these dayswhen we talk about tech in censorship,
there's also algorithmic censorshipin different social media platforms,
(03:24):
such as Douyin and Bilibili, basicallyanything that's seeing as social media
or even any app
that has content, published content, on it[that] needs to be censored
So if a blogger uses certain words
that are deemed, as sensitive word,
(03:45):
by the authority or by the platform,
their content may get a notification,say that you have to delete
or adjust your contentso that it can reappear on our platform,
or the video may get taken down,
or that account itself may get shut.
(04:06):
there's always human censorsat media publications,
they would read through everythingto make sure
that it's within the party guidelines.
And these days there are also humancensors, at social media
platforms, to execute ordersand to direct algorithms to do things.
I think the most scary side of censorshipis self censorship.
(04:29):
And it's also the most effective tool.
in recent years,I think we've seen a lot more high profile
professionals from economists to,
lawyers to even doctors self-censor.
And I think that it's going downa very dangerous path.
(04:50):
What role can the internet play
in fostering mutual understandingbetween the United States and China?
I believe the internet is able to playthe most important role
in fostering mutual understandingbetween the U.S.
and China.
I think traditionallywe've been reliant on diplomacy
and we've been relying onestablished news outlets, but I can't say
(05:11):
they are the most effective tools,especially in the age of social media.
However, I think there is one prerequisite
that is the internet or social mediaplatform needs to be free.
Now, with the recent surge of TikTokrefugees on RedNote.
I think, in fact, retinol is the most
(05:33):
free platform in China as there is.
so on there, we've seen a lot of humanto human exchange.
We've seen questions, suchas what is China like on the street level?
Because maybe the American users,which is like over half a million of them,
at least they don't really see streetlevel Chinese pictures,
(05:56):
because that's the perception in theirhead is being fed by traditional media.
So they don't really get to see the humanperspective of what China's like.
At the same time, I've also seenquestions of them asking each other,
what do you think of black people?
Because, I mean,China is a rather homogeneous society.
and what do you think of thisin that political event?
(06:19):
of course, is still under the effect
of censorship and propaganda orders.
I'm only giving a small exampleof what RedNote and the internet
can do to engage,exchanges in a civil society.
However, I think if used well, platformslike RedNote
(06:41):
and the internet can playa more important role than the government
and any kind of policy,any kind of, cultural exchange programs.
What role do
influencers play in onlinecultural exchange?
I would say they are very helpfulin breaking barriers.
And in recent yearsI've come across a lot of accounts
(07:04):
on Instagram and TikTokfeaturing Chinese influencers.
And they don't have to do much.
they actually just republish contentthey are already doing on
Chinese social media.
A lot of them just do thatand put on English subtitles.
So they may be doing thatto, explore overseas potentials.
with the help of VPN you may have comeacross on TikTok or Instagram.
(07:30):
There are a bunch of rural womenin their 50s and 60s.
They always rap exact foodsthey're trying to make,
and it's really fun to watch them rap.
whether you understandthe language or not,
I think they may be just exploringthe business potential of the English
speaking world.
and the second scenario would be that theyare selling directly to overseas buyers
(07:52):
and they want to make contenttargeted to those audience.
for the second example,you must know this guy
Tony, who sells, lighting instruments.
He can basically imitate any accent.
He can also imitate any personality.
I think one of the recentmarketing strategies they did
(08:14):
is that, they would startthe video was a viral TikTok content,
and then Tony would be the onewho gives you a twist in the ending.
I think with
these positive examples,I think it's really helpful
to American users to know that,
hey, these Chinese peoplelike really funny.
(08:35):
And Tony, for example,they may see me feel like they know
Tony for a long time,but we have to be aware
that influencers have business motives,
they may have to put up a persona
that is not, necessarily trueto their true self in an everyday setting.
(08:55):
So I would say they are helpful,
but the the real humans or the peoplewho don't come on to the platform
just trying to sell thingsor just trying to get likes and clicks.
They are the most neutral
and the most authentic voices of China.
(09:16):
And for that reason,I think the influencers have definitely
played a really important rolein breaking barriers.
But what really makes a differenceis the authentic, users in real life.
How do Chinese and American Internet usersdiffer in their consumption
of online content?
I think when we compare user habitsand when compare
(09:37):
the habits between differentlike humans in different societies,
we need to first address the differences
in their context, meaning, their internetenvironments in China,
because there's different levelof restrictions, from top down
censorship to platform level censorshipto account level censorship.
we are more likely to see,a dichotomy of views
(09:59):
and people have to choose between,something that's either black or white.
Whereas in the AmericanInternet environment,
there is a freedom of, expression.
People have more diverse views,when it comes
to public scandals, controversiesor current affairs.
So I would say from my perspective,that's the biggest difference.
(10:23):
How do Chinese and American Internetusers interact with each other online?
I would go back to the example of RedNote.
if you remember, the first part ofthe story is that more than half a million
TikTok refugees,
quote unquote, flooded to RedNote,they are getting so much traffic.
even if someone just came to the platform,they just post a simple video
(10:44):
without any script, without any specialmakeup saying that, hey, how are you?
I'm a typical refugee.
I'm from, for example, Tennessee,and he or
she may have like 10,000 liveswithout much effort
And that is very unfairto Chinese native users,
who have built their contentwith blood and sweat
(11:07):
and who seems to have put ina lot more effort into their content.
And why is that?
I don't think it's because, RedNote’salgorithm is designed to prefer
foreign content or non-Chinese content,
but because non-Chinese people
would usually stand out,in China on the ground
(11:30):
and of course, they also stand out online.
I think the root cause of this phenomenon
is that Chinesesociety is very homogeneous.
So it's quite easy for non Chinesepeople to,
gain traction onlineand also gain attention.
that says a lot moreabout what a society is.
(11:51):
instead of just people's user habitor a platform's algorithm.
because that's what shapespeople's digital behavior,
no matter where they're from.
when Chinese people go abroad,they may be forced to integrate
with a more diverse society,they have to face a shift in their
self identity because they are no longer,part of the mainstream ethnicity.
(12:15):
They may be even portrayedas marginalized social group.
So that's the kind of adjustmentthey need to make in real life.
And that's also the kind of adjustmentthey need to make online.
Meaning that when they go on overseas
platforms like YouTube, TikTok, Instagram,
the simple fact [that]they're on the platform wouldn't
(12:39):
give them any traction, because Chinese
peopleare just seeing as part of larger society.
the internet is able toplay the most important role in fostering
(00:04):
mutual understanding However, internetor social media platform needs to be free.
in China, there's The Great Firewall.
top down censorship platform levelcensorship account level censorship.
more than half a million TikTokrefugees, flooded to RedNote,
still under effect of censorship
but we've seen a lot of humanto human exchange.
(00:27):
What are the most used
apps and websites in China,and how do they compare to Western ones?
the most used websites and apps inChina are WeChat, Weibo, Baidu.
Douyin, Kuaishou,Bilibili, and Xiaohongshu or RedNote.
Normally, established media watch
just say that they are similar to,for example, Google
(00:50):
or TikTok, or YouTube,but I don't think that's accurate anymore.
Of course, some of these platforms,like Baidu are direct copycats.
and Baiduis certainly a copycat of Google.
But in recent years, there emergesa lot more Chinese apps built for China,
and built for Chinese usersparticular user habits.
(01:12):
And I would say WeChat is a great example.
I think one last talked about point is
that people are using WeChatas if it's the Internet of China.
Almost everyone in China now has WeChat.
it's the default chat appit's also a super app,
(01:33):
meaning it's not just like WhatsAppwhere you can have conversations.
basically, because of the changein people's media consumption habit
over a decade ago,a lot of publishing accounts
and content, moved over to WeChat.
You can also read articlesbecause it has a built
a publishing platformcalled WeChat Official Account.
(01:54):
It also has a built in, application
ecosystem, WeChat mini apps.
It also has a short video channel.
You can also pay your utility billsand basically do everything on there.
So I would not compare itto WhatsApp anymore.
I would actually compare thatto what Google
(02:15):
or even what the internet can do,because you can also search in WeChat.
How does censorship workin China's internet?
I think there are two main driving forces.
One is tech, the other one's human.
Tech is only playingthe role of assistant, the most well-known
case is the golden shield projector in its nickname, The Great Firewall.
(02:38):
It was something that was put into placearound 20 years ago,
and domestic users are,
forbiddenfrom accessing certain foreign sites,
from Facebook to Google to certain newssites.
翻墙 (fanqiang) to climb over a wall,meaning use Virtual Private Network
(VPN) to change your user, IP domain
(03:02):
so that the internet recognize you
as, a user from other regions, not China.
So, you can access sites,
you typically don't have access toif you live in China.
and these dayswhen we talk about tech in censorship,
there's also algorithmic censorshipin different social media platforms,
(03:24):
such as Douyin and Bilibili, basicallyanything that's seeing as social media
or even any app
that has content, published content, on it[that] needs to be censored
So if a blogger uses certain words
that are deemed, as sensitive word,
(03:45):
by the authority or by the platform,
their content may get a notification,say that you have to delete
or adjust your contentso that it can reappear on our platform,
or the video may get taken down,
or that account itself may get shut.
(04:06):
there's always human censorsat media publications,
they would read through everythingto make sure
that it's within the party guidelines.
And these days there are also humancensors, at social media
platforms, to execute ordersand to direct algorithms to do things.
I think the most scary side of censorshipis self censorship.
(04:29):
And it's also the most effective tool.
in recent years,I think we've seen a lot more high profile
professionals from economists to,
lawyers to even doctors self-censor.
And I think that it's going downa very dangerous path.
(04:50):
What role can the internet play
in fostering mutual understandingbetween the United States and China?
I believe the internet is able to playthe most important role
in fostering mutual understandingbetween the U.S.
and China.
I think traditionallywe've been reliant on diplomacy
and we've been relying onestablished news outlets, but I can't say
(05:11):
they are the most effective tools,especially in the age of social media.
However, I think there is one prerequisite
that is the internet or social mediaplatform needs to be free.
Now, with the recent surge of TikTokrefugees on RedNote.
I think, in fact, retinol is the most
(05:33):
free platform in China as there is.
so on there, we've seen a lot of humanto human exchange.
We've seen questions, suchas what is China like on the street level?
Because maybe the American users,which is like over half a million of them,
at least they don't really see streetlevel Chinese pictures,
(05:56):
because that's the perception in theirhead is being fed by traditional media.
So they don't really get to see the humanperspective of what China's like.
At the same time, I've also seenquestions of them asking each other,
what do you think of black people?
Because, I mean,China is a rather homogeneous society.
and what do you think of thisin that political event?
(06:19):
of course, is still under the effect
of censorship and propaganda orders.
I'm only giving a small exampleof what RedNote and the internet
can do to engage,exchanges in a civil society.
However, I think if used well, platformslike RedNote
(06:41):
and the internet can playa more important role than the government
and any kind of policy,any kind of, cultural exchange programs.
What role do
influencers play in onlinecultural exchange?
I would say they are very helpfulin breaking barriers.
And in recent yearsI've come across a lot of accounts
(07:04):
on Instagram and TikTokfeaturing Chinese influencers.
And they don't have to do much.
they actually just republish contentthey are already doing on
Chinese social media.
A lot of them just do thatand put on English subtitles.
So they may be doing thatto, explore overseas potentials.
with the help of VPN you may have comeacross on TikTok or Instagram.
(07:30):
There are a bunch of rural womenin their 50s and 60s.
They always rap exact foodsthey're trying to make,
and it's really fun to watch them rap.
whether you understandthe language or not,
I think they may be just exploringthe business potential of the English
speaking world.
and the second scenario would be that theyare selling directly to overseas buyers
(07:52):
and they want to make contenttargeted to those audience.
for the second example,you must know this guy
Tony, who sells, lighting instruments.
He can basically imitate any accent.
He can also imitate any personality.
I think one of the recentmarketing strategies they did
(08:14):
is that, they would startthe video was a viral TikTok content,
and then Tony would be the onewho gives you a twist in the ending.
I think with
these positive examples,I think it's really helpful
to American users to know that,
hey, these Chinese peoplelike really funny.
(08:35):
And Tony, for example,they may see me feel like they know
Tony for a long time,but we have to be aware
that influencers have business motives,
they may have to put up a persona
that is not, necessarily trueto their true self in an everyday setting.
(08:55):
So I would say they are helpful,
but the the real humans or the peoplewho don't come on to the platform
just trying to sell thingsor just trying to get likes and clicks.
They are the most neutral
and the most authentic voices of China.
(09:16):
And for that reason,I think the influencers have definitely
played a really important rolein breaking barriers.
But what really makes a differenceis the authentic, users in real life.
How do Chinese and American Internet usersdiffer in their consumption
of online content?
I think when we compare user habitsand when compare
(09:37):
the habits between differentlike humans in different societies,
we need to first address the differences
in their context, meaning, their internetenvironments in China,
because there's different levelof restrictions, from top down
censorship to platform level censorshipto account level censorship.
we are more likely to see,a dichotomy of views
(09:59):
and people have to choose between,something that's either black or white.
Whereas in the AmericanInternet environment,
there is a freedom of, expression.
People have more diverse views,when it comes
to public scandals, controversiesor current affairs.
So I would say from my perspective,that's the biggest difference.
(10:23):
How do Chinese and American Internetusers interact with each other online?
I would go back to the example of RedNote.
if you remember, the first part ofthe story is that more than half a million
TikTok refugees,
quote unquote, flooded to RedNote,they are getting so much traffic.
even if someone just came to the platform,they just post a simple video
(10:44):
without any script, without any specialmakeup saying that, hey, how are you?
I'm a typical refugee.
I'm from, for example, Tennessee,and he or
she may have like 10,000 liveswithout much effort
And that is very unfairto Chinese native users,
who have built their contentwith blood and sweat
(11:07):
and who seems to have put ina lot more effort into their content.
And why is that?
I don't think it's because, RedNote’salgorithm is designed to prefer
foreign content or non-Chinese content,
but because non-Chinese people
would usually stand out,in China on the ground
(11:30):
and of course, they also stand out online.
I think the root cause of this phenomenon
is that Chinesesociety is very homogeneous.
So it's quite easy for non Chinesepeople to,
gain traction onlineand also gain attention.
that says a lot moreabout what a society is.
(11:51):
instead of just people's user habitor a platform's algorithm.
because that's what shapespeople's digital behavior,
no matter where they're from.
when Chinese people go abroad,they may be forced to integrate
with a more diverse society,they have to face a shift in their
self identity because they are no longer,part of the mainstream ethnicity.
(12:15):
They may be even portrayedas marginalized social group.
So that's the kind of adjustmentthey need to make in real life.
And that's also the kind of adjustmentthey need to make online.
Meaning that when they go on overseas
platforms like YouTube, TikTok, Instagram,
the simple fact [that]they're on the platform wouldn't
(12:39):
give them any traction, because Chinese
peopleare just seeing as part of larger society.
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