Ready to get your creative groove back? In this episode of the Vicki Kotris Podcast, we’re diving deep with Jen Jones Donatelli — certified Co-Coach, powerhouse creative, and founder of Creative Groove. Jen’s story is anything but ordinary: from a vibrant career in media and entertainment to guiding fellow creatives toward aligned, joy-filled lives, her journey is packed with bold moves and soulful insight.
We explore how to find your flow, reconnect with your creative purpose, and manifest the life you actually want. Jen shares her take on the transformative magic of The Artist’s Way, what it really means to live in alignment, and practical tools to help you break through burnout and bring your ideas to life.
Whether you’re pivoting careers, craving visibility, or simply feeling stuck — this conversation will leave you lit up and inspired to take action.
🎧 Tune in for:
- Manifestation myths (and truths!)
- Daily practices to reignite creativity
- Why "joy is the strategy"
- And the #1 mindset shift every creative needs
Connect with Jen here:
Website: https://creativegroove.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourcreativegroove/?hl=en
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yourcreativegroove/
Thank you again for tuning into another episode of the Vicki Kotris Podcast! I want to support you, cheer you on a HYPE you up!! If you're celebrating anything (and I mean ANYTHING), send me a DM and let me highlight you on a recent episode.
If you're looking for support in building a social media content strategy, I'm your girl! Send me an email to vkkotris@gmail.com and we can set up a FREE account audit.
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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-confetti-filled-life-podcast/id1391196589
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vicki (00:49):
Welcome back to the Vicki Kotris podcast, where we
spotlight bold women doingbrilliant things.
And today's guest is the epitomeof creative reinvention.
Meet Jen Jones Donatelli, acertified cove coach, creative
facilitator, and the founder ofCreative Groove.
A small business with a bigmission helping people
rediscover their spark throughcoaching courses and community.
(01:11):
Before she was coachingcreatives into alignment, Jen
spent nearly 20 years working inmedia and entertainment.
Think Red carpets, featurefilms, award shows, and bylines
and glamor, business Insider,and even Playboy.
She's taught everywhere fromLoyola Marymount to Literary
Cleveland.
Jen is here to talk aboutfinding your flow, reigniting
joy, and why creativity isn'tjust a hobby, it's a lifeline.
(01:34):
So
Jen Jones Donatelli (01:35):
Ooh,
Vicki (01:35):
in.
Jen Jones Donatelli (01:36):
can I please hire you as my
copywriter?
That was amazing.
Vicki (01:40):
I'm here for you,
Jen Jones Donatelli (01:42):
Thank you.
Vicki (01:42):
take all the credit because chat, GPT is always my
AI assistant
Jen Jones Donatelli (01:47):
Oh, so confession time.
I have never logged into chat.
GPTI have never used it.
I am like one of those likeLuddite people that's like, no,
you know, so, so it's reallycool.
You're, you're starting to turnthe tide for me there.
Vicki (02:03):
is a amazing guide.
And I was just talking to an, Iwas talking to a copywriter
about it actually, who had verystrong opinions of why people
shouldn't use it, and she wasdipping her toe into the idea of
how to use it.
And it's basically what we cameto is it's never gonna replace
(02:24):
just.
The human element of creativitythat we'll always need, but
using it as a guide is sopowerful, especially in those
kind of creative funks whereyou're just like, time is of the
essence and you need somethingto help get you there.
Jen Jones Donatelli (02:40):
Yeah, and like I'm gonna be on a panel
coming up.
It's on April 11th.
But chat, GPT, one of my fellowpanelists actually used it, used
it to come up with the title,and I love the title.
So slowly but surely, I'm beingwon over by this.
Vicki (02:54):
Absolutely.
Don't let the, you know, therobots aren't taking over yet,
Jen, so don't fear not, but itcan be used in very powerful
ways.
I'm a big fan.
Jen Jones Donatelli (03:03):
And it's more like the journalist in me.
Like for instance, so this is alittle bit of a side note, but
as part of my freelance career,I was work for hire author for
over a decade.
So I have authored over ahundred books for kids.
Vicki (03:14):
Wow.
Jen Jones Donatelli (03:14):
And I think 14 of my books were part of meta
has this whole thing going onright now where a lot of authors
are doing a class action suit,basically because they used our
books to train their ai.
And so you know, they, theyviolated copyright and
everything like that.
So I think just because of thefact that, you know, writers and
(03:36):
intellectual property is beingused to kind of train ai, that's
why I've been so stubborn.
But I can definitely see, someof the creative benefits as well
as like kind of thatfoundational piece that you
talked about, like helping sparkideas, you know, and so I think
I'll come around.
It's more just me, like plantingmy flag in the ground of like,
humans matter, you know, writingmatters, you know, and I, I want
(03:59):
to keep those really essentialpieces of creativity in place.
Vicki (04:03):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And have the authenticity justhonored throughout the process.
So I, I completely understand.
I, I wanna dive into actuallytalking more about your
journalism career and you as awriter over the past 20 years,
and you've had such an amazingcareer in entertainment, in
journalism.
(04:24):
So I wanna know, just in likebehind the scenes of it all,
what is something that peoplewould be surprised to hear of
everything that you've donethroughout your career?
Jen Jones Donatelli (04:35):
Kind of a fun fact, I guess it's semi
surprising.
I don't know.
So my very fir, well, it wasn'tmy very first job actually, but
it was my very first job where Ifelt like I was on the right
path.
I worked at a nationallysyndicated talk show called the
Jenny Jones Show, and this wasback in the late nineties when
it was kind of like the talkshow heyday, like, you know,
(04:57):
Oprah was on the air and youcould probably rattle off like
10 talk show hosts, you know,and Jenny Jones was one of them.
And that was my first.
Full well, no, sorry, I keepsaying it was my first job.
It wasn't my first job but itwas my first job where I got on
my creative path.
But anyway, I guess a fun factis, you know, my maiden name is
Jen Jones and I worked at theJenny Jones Show.
(05:17):
So it's kind of like a fun factbecause that job was really life
changing for me and it taught meso much and it, it, what it
showed me was, you know, I had ajournalism degree when I was
working in television productionand I was the website producer.
So it was kind of cool because Iwas writing show recaps and I
was doing, you know, photographyon set and I was interviewing
(05:38):
the musical guests.
And actually I sold one of myfirst freelance pieces through
that,
Vicki (05:42):
Amazing.
Jen Jones Donatelli (05:43):
I was able to use my journalism skills, you
know, in a TV productionenvironment and it kind of
showed me, I.
Like, you can blend yourpassions, you know, with your
profession, you know, and kindof like carve out a place for
yourself, you know, in thespaces that you're interested in
dancing in.
So it was really foundationalfor me in terms of like how my
career ended up playing out.
(06:04):
But just from a surprisingstandpoint, it's kind of fun
that, like, that was my name andI, and I worked at the Jenny
Jones show.
I was not the host.
There's a different Jenny Jonesthat was the host.
But yeah, so I would say thatwould be kind of a surprising
fact.
Vicki (06:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That seems very serendipitous.
And I'm just curious because youmentioned this a couple times
and of saying what kind of goingthrough that, that story is that
it was before that you maybedidn't have a laid path of where
your passions and creativitycome together.
(06:37):
So out of curiosity, what didthat look like to you?
You know, a fresh graduate of,you know, being a journalist,
what you studied for so long for
Jen Jones Donatelli (06:48):
Yeah.
And like I, I graduated OhioUniversity, which I know we're
both alumni, or alumni I shouldsay, of and I graduated in 1998,
so I'm, I'm older than you.
Vicki (06:58):
That's okay.
Just by a
Jen Jones Donatelli (07:00):
but you know, I felt like the whole
world was at my fingertips, youknow, like I was so interested
in so many different things.
And I ended up moving to Chicagoright after graduation.
And fun fact, if anyone knowsChicago, well, I didn't even
know that people lived in thecity.
I moved to the suburbs ofChicago because I didn't, I
(07:20):
didn't even know that peoplelived in the city, and so I
lived in Arlington Heights,which by the way, was an awesome
place to live.
Like I lived right across fromthe metro train.
I commuted on the metro trainevery single day into the city,
and then I figured out like, oh,like.
I belong in the city.
So after about six months, Imoved down there.
But my first job was actuallyfor like an advertising agency
(07:43):
doing, I was a sales andmarketing associate.
So I, I did enjoy the work.
I mean, I was you know, writing,marketing copy and you know,
helping with different tasksaround the office.
And I did learn a little bitabout video production'cause
they were doing, you know,different projects for clients
and stuff, but it was reallymore in sales and marketing.
And,
Vicki (08:01):
Mm-hmm.
Jen Jones Donatelli (08:01):
I was essentially an admin, although I
did end up getting moreresponsibility as time went on.
And I worked there for about ayear.
And then I ended up getting ajob for basically a social club
in Chicago.
And it was kind of like asingles social club.
And so I was the event plannerand I.
My job was just to plan allthese outings that people could
(08:23):
meet and mingle.
So we did everything from likeskydiving to like theater
outings kayaking, can, we didall kinds of things and it was
my job to kind of like curatethese experiences and help
people connect you know, in realtime.
And it was a really, really cooljob.
But I actually got fired fromit, believe it or not.
Vicki (08:42):
the first, the first paint.
The first like, oh, that hurts,
Jen Jones Donatelli (08:47):
It really, I was devastated.
I was absolutely devastatedbecause it was, it was more of a
personality match with the ownerof the company than it was my
performance.
And I didn't even know therewasn't a personality match, so I
was just.
So surprised'cause I thoughteverything was going great.
And so, and I have some kind, Iwon't go too far into the side
(09:08):
note, but a couple interesting,really small stories about that
are, I had to take the bus homeafter I got fired.
I was like wailing, sobbing onthe bus.
Like I could not control myself.
And I, I got to my apartment.
I lived in Lincoln Park and Iwent upstairs to my, you know, I
had the teeniest tiniestapartment.
(09:28):
I called it the shoebox.
It was like 600 square feet.
And I'm just like, could notstop crying.
And a few days later I get thisnote under my door and it was
from this guy that lived downthe hall.
And he is like, I heard you theother day.
And you know, I just want you toknow that like, if you need help
with your job search or anythingyou can come knock on my door
and.
Vicki (09:47):
Oh my
Jen Jones Donatelli (09:47):
was like such a nice display of kindness.
But what I ended up doing, andthis has a point I promise is I
ended up temping because I, Itype really fast.
That's like another fun fact.
I can type like 120 wordsminutes.
So I ended up typing or temping,temping and typing
Vicki (10:03):
Tapping, typing.
Got it.
Jen Jones Donatelli (10:04):
and I worked at a bug spray company on
Michigan Avenue.
And I would take the bus thereevery day and as I would take
the bus, and I actually reallyenjoyed working at the bug spray
company, but across the streetwas the NBC Tower where the
Jenny Jones show filmed.
And I would literally stare outthe window every single day.
The peacock was at the top ofthe building.
I would stare out the window.
I was like, I wanna work there,I wanna work there, I wanna work
(10:26):
there.
And then one day I was ridingthe bus to the bug spray company
Vicki (10:31):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (10:31):
The Chicago Reader, which is a popular
newspaper in Chicago, I had ajob listing for a website
coordinator at the Jenny JonesShow, and I moved every mountain
to get an interview.
And the rest was history.
So, so I had a couple jobs thatlike, weren't really a great fit
in the beginning,
Vicki (10:50):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (10:51):
it was like game on.
Vicki (10:53):
Okay.
So there's so many things that Ilove about that whole story.
Number one is I too got firedfrom one of my first big girl
jobs, and it is devastatingbecause it lays some kind of
foundation, whether it's true ornot, which I know in, in our
cases this is not true, thatyou're not.
(11:15):
Good enough, or you're not smartenough, or you're not ex, you
know, fill in the blank to do agood job at whatever it is
you're doing.
And that's a real shitty way tostart a career, is to already
count yourself out of the gamebefore you've even really
started the first quarter.
And I let that be a story in myown mind for far, far too long
(11:38):
that I wasn't good enough, or Icould never be this X person
that I had in my mind.
Whereas what I know to be truenow is that very much like
watering and taking care of thatseed and growing along the way
and appreciating, you know,every little inch that you get
(11:59):
better and better.
I know with time, with the rightpeople, with the right
resources, I could have beenamazing at that job.
And that just goes to show, youknow, it's not always.
You know, sometimes it's an USproblem and we're in the, we're
in the height of our evolvinginto what we will become.
But it is so hard when thathappens so early in your career
(12:19):
and unexpectedly so, I very muchfind connection in your story.
And the second thing that I loveabout it is, you are working at
a bug spray company and you'relike, this isn't, this isn't
terrible.
I don't hate it.
you are also, you are also kindof like a human vision board at
(12:41):
this point because you'restaring at your window and you
are creating in your mind's eyewhere you wanna be, what you
wanna do.
And Jen, that's so cool becauseyou really then, now it's like
it's implanted in your mind.
How are you gonna get there?
Like, make it happen foryourself And you did.
Jen Jones Donatelli (13:02):
I will tell you, Vicki, I have so many
stories throughout my career ofmanifesting the exact job that I
wanted, and to be honest withyou, like I.
I have a little bit of acomplicated relationship with
manifestation.
Like
Vicki (13:14):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (13:15):
really gel with the law of attraction as
much as some people.
I really believe in activemanifestation, which I kind of
define as like, if I know what Iwant, I am going to network and
like move all my mountains andlike find a way to make that
thing happen.
So I kind of believe in likeworking hand in hand with the
universe to, you know, activateyour goals and dreams.
But like the law of attractionhas just never really resonated
(13:36):
with me that much, but I.
Vicki (13:38):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (13:38):
much believe in manifestation and
I've seen it happen again andagain, in my career.
And so, that was the firstinstance of it.
And you're so right.
And I think we do get to createour own opportunities, you know,
and so it's just kind offiguring out like, how do I do
that?
You know, and that's what I liketo help my clients do.
And I'll just say like, sidenote number 10, you know, I
(13:59):
don't like knowing you as I do,you know, I was kind of shocked
to hear that you were fired froma job, you know?
'cause I happen to think likeboth of us are catches.
You know, like we're teamplayers,
Vicki (14:09):
we're tens,
Jen Jones Donatelli (14:10):
team players, smart, creative, like
fun.
Like why would you fire us?
I don't understand this.
Vicki (14:17):
A hundred percent.
I know.
And it's like I said, I spentfar too much of my twenties just
kind of thinking that that wasmy story.
And you know, it takes you along time to get outta that.
And I hope if anyone is goingthrough that, especially in the
where we are in the world,layoffs are kind of a given in a
lot of industries right now.
(14:38):
And so to just kind of say, youknow, it's, it's them not me,
and I'm amazing and I'm gonnabring whatever energy and you
never know where that's gonnatake you.
Jen Jones Donatelli (14:47):
I think that extends to like, sorry.
Vicki (14:50):
oh yeah, go ahead.
Jen Jones Donatelli (14:50):
No, I think that extends to all kinds of
rejections, like when we don'tget the job we want, or if we're
applying for a literary journalor if we, I.
Go for something, you know, thatwe don't get.
I think we do make it meansomething about us, and often
it's just really arbitraryfactors, you know, especially in
today's day and age.
And so we have to kind of likerealize that it doesn't mean
(15:12):
anything about our worth.
It's just like the confluence offactors didn't line up in the
right way for that opportunityat that time.
Vicki (15:20):
Yes, yes.
Wholeheartedly believe that itis redirection.
So how did this shift yourmindset over time to say,
because you're working in acorporate world and you have for
many years, I know you've been afreelance.
You've been freelance for, youknow, in, in the most recent
(15:40):
past.
But what happened in corporatecareer that you were like, I'm
noticing this shift, like, like.
aren't expressing themselves, ormaybe you're not expressing
yourself and you lost that alongthe way.
I'm just curious what was, whatwas that kind of inflection
point for you to then go on andinspire?
Creative groove?
Jen Jones Donatelli (16:01):
I'll be really honest with you, Vicki.
I don't feel like I ever haveworked in corporate.
The only nine to five job I'veever really had was that first
year working at the advertisingagency.
Ever since then, I have hadeither untraditional jobs or
have worked for myself.
And so I've been atself-employed full-time for 20
years this year.
(16:22):
And before that I was working infilm and television, which is
like not a conventional settingwhatsoever, even though it is
way more than nine to five, likeit's full-time work.
Vicki (16:31):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (16:31):
but I don't really, and that's, I've, I
don't feel like I've ever reallyworked in corporate, so I feel
like you could probably speak tothat way better than me.
Vicki (16:40):
Yeah, I, I guess I look at working for a larger
organization where there arethings that come up, like
bureaucracy, some, you knowpopularity contests among your
coworkers.
Like the, a lot of the thingsthat I see, and, and that's kind
of how I equate it to, is notnecessarily working a
conventional nine to five in acubicle, but working in the
(17:02):
confines of someone else's kindof structure container where you
don't feel like you are able toexpress yourself as much as you
may want to, because it's just,that's not the path that exists
in that container.
Jen Jones Donatelli (17:18):
Yeah, no, I think once I started working at
the Jenny Jones show and then Iworked for several other talk
shows that were for the samecompany I was always so lit up
by the work I was doing and Iwas just like a kid in a candy
store, like getting to like seebehind the scenes of, you know,
the entertainment industry.
Like I never really felt likethat, to be honest.
(17:39):
I definitely had my moments hereand there, but to be honest with
you, like.
Working at that show reallychanged the game for me and you
know, showed me it's kind ofpossible to like love your work.
And that's how I felt, you know,ever since then.
So, yes, my first like year anda half, like not so great, but I
feel lucky that I found acreative trajectory early on
(18:01):
that really spoke to me.
Vicki (18:03):
Yeah.
Oh, Jen, I love that you saidthat too because I, I, I
sometimes get in a black holeof, of the conversations because
I, I tend to talk to a lot ofpeople that are, have, have
resented the opportunities andprocesses and maybe it's like
not working in a creative fieldor an industry that does that a
little bit.
It, it kind of stifles thoseparts of us and so I tend to
(18:26):
have a lot of conversationsabout that.
But hearing you say no, there,there are many paths that open
that up, that light you up, thatgive you, kind of feed your soul
in that way because it's not allbad.
And I, and I tend to kind oflean on the dark side of it and
I shouldn't because you can haveamazing experiences and just use
(18:48):
them to then design and buildthe life that you want,
Jen Jones Donatelli (18:51):
Yes.
And like,
Vicki (18:52):
What you do.
Jen Jones Donatelli (18:53):
yeah.
And my creative groove looksdifferent than your creative
groove looks different thanSusie's creative groove looks
different than, and so like,even though I love working in
creative fields, like someoneelse might feel the same exact
way I do about like, bookkeepingor, you know fashion design or
like running a manufacturingcompany or something like that.
So.
(19:14):
I don't think you necessarilyhave to be in a creative field
to feel like you're in yourcreative groove.
And so that's kind of what Ihelp people do.
I help them find their owncreative groove where they are
kind of like in their flow andwhere they're, they're working
with how they're wired, in somesort of setting that supports
them, whether it'sself-employment or a job they
enjoy or, you know, fill in theblank here.
(19:35):
So it's like, kind of like asnowflake, you know, everyone's
creative groove is different,but I definitely found mine
early on and I'm really gratefulfor that.
'cause it kind of showed me whatwas possible.
Vicki (19:46):
Yeah.
Is there was there like aspecific experience in your
career in entertainment andjournalism that you feel like
really has helped you inbuilding creative groove and
ultimately coaching people andfinding creativity?
Jen Jones Donatelli (20:04):
Wow.
Well, I guess I can give alittle bit of background into
like how creative Groove startedand then maybe, maybe it'll be
more clear to me, like, like atipping point.
Because so, you know, I said Iworked at the Jenny Jones show,
so I did that for three years.
And I just loved it so much thatI decided to move to LA because
even though I loved living inChicago and I loved my job, I
(20:25):
was like really wanting to likesee what, what, what else was
available in the entertainmentindustry.
So I moved out there and Iactually moved out there a week
after September 11th.
So
Vicki (20:35):
Wow.
Jen Jones Donatelli (20:35):
I was on one of the first flights, you
know, to leave Chicago afterthat.
And it was a very difficulttime, you know, obviously in our
country, but also particularlyin the entertainment industry
because there was a flight, youknow, I think either from to or
from LA where a lot of peoplehad passed away.
And production was kind of shutdown.
So when I got there, I was kindof like.
(20:56):
You know, figuring it all out.
And so I had to really pound thepavement, you know, to start
finding work and everything.
And there's, I have tons ofstories I can tell about that,
but again, I don't wanna do toomany side notes, so, you know,
funny story there.
So for about eight years, Iwould say, you know, between
Chicago and those first years inLA I was essentially a
production freelancer.
(21:17):
So I was working on like,feature films or like sitcoms or
like, I worked at Eon Online fora year as kind of like a ghost
writer slash red carpetreporter.
And then I got a call from TelePictures, which had produced the
Jenny Jones Show, and they werebringing the, the Jenny Jones
show had been canceled.
And so a lot of the staff wasmoving out to LA to work on the
Sharon Osborne show.
And so I went and worked onthat, you know, and then I went
(21:39):
and worked on, another talk showafter that with, with the same
group.
But the, the reason I bring thisup is during that time I had
actually started freelancewriting.
So I had, was kind of likehonoring my journalism degree as
almost like a side hustle in away.
'cause I was like learning howto write and sell articles to
magazines and publications.
And some of that came from a lotof OU connections, you know.
(22:02):
And so I like to say like, useyour network, whatever that
looks like.
If it's an alumni network, youknow, where, wherever it may be
because you might be surprised,you know, how it can really help
you set sale with some of thegoals that you have.
It definitely helped me in thoseearly days.
And that was how I, got, like, Iended up being, having a work
for hire author as one of myfreelance gigs.
(22:23):
I,
Vicki (22:23):
cool.
Jen Jones Donatelli (22:24):
long story short, I started freelancing for
American Cheerleader Magazinethrough an OU connection because
I have a, a background, youknow, in dance and cheerleading,
and I loved it.
And I was writing, I was writingfor like this family of 10 dance
and cheerleading magazines.
And a publisher approached themagazine to say like, do you
know any, you know, writers wholove writing about cheerleading?
And they recommended me and oneother person.
(22:46):
And I I got chosen to write asix book nonfiction series about
cheerleading.
And I was still working at theSharon Osborne show during that
time.
So I was like, doing all thesethings, you know, and, it, it
started a 10 year relationshipwith this publisher where I
essentially was kind of like afreelance author.
They call it Work for Hire.
So they would come to me withdifferent projects that they
wanted to do and I would bringthem to life for them.
(23:07):
So I wrote all different kindsof books for young girls.
But anyway so I was like, kindahad this big side hustle going
and I was like working inentertainment.
And in 2005 I was working onanother talk show with tele
pictures.
When that show got canceled, Ihad like all this side writing
work going on.
And so I was kind of like, youknow, there's not a lot of
(23:29):
production stuff happening inthe summertime.
I'll just kinda like freelanceand like ride out these writing
projects, you know, over thesummer and then I'll find
another job, you know, inproduction.
But it ended up being kind of anaccidental detour into becoming
a full-time freelance writer.
I never really, I did.
So it's interesting'cause thescales kind of tipped at that
(23:52):
point because I continued tolike freelance on award shows
and do small projects.
But it was kind of like beforethat I was doing entertainment
and production full-time withlike a side hustle of writing.
And then it became, I waswriting full-time, but I had
some side hustles, you know, inthe entertainment world.
So it was almost like a flipswitch and around that time.
(24:12):
So I started freelancing in2005.
I create, I don't know how itcame to me.
I think it was probably'cause Iwas doing a lot of writing about
dance and cheerleading.
I decided to buy the domainname, creative groove.
I just liked it and I thoughtit, like, you know, spoke to
kind of how I approached my workand like how I viewed my work,
(24:32):
but also it kind of describedwhat I was doing and at that
time it was literally just aportfolio website where I kept
like all my magazine articlesand like if people wanted to
hire me, I would send them,Doug, here's my website.
So.
I trademarked the name in 2008
Vicki (24:48):
Wow.
Jen Jones Donatelli (24:49):
and also 2008 was a very pivotal year for
me because first of all, Itrademarked the name Creative
Groove.
I took the Artist's way as aparticipant for the first time,
Vicki (24:59):
Okay.
Jen Jones Donatelli (25:00):
and I was working with a client who was an
author and she was also a cocoach, which coaching was not as
mainstream back then, so Ididn't even really know what
that was.
And so she had written a bookcalled respect rx, which was
like a book for young girls allabout respect, self respect,
respect for others, respect forthe world.
And she hired me to kind of helpher lead and design some
(25:23):
workshops and be kind of like a,it was more than an assistant,
but it was kind of like aoperations person.
I was kinda like helping her,you know, get her workshops out
into the world and get her bookout into the world.
But she wanted me to understandthe coaching piece.
So she basically paid for me,she sponsored me to do Cove
Fundamentals, which is theorientation to cove coaching.
(25:46):
And like I said, I didn't reallyeven know what I was doing.
I was like, sure, that'samazing.
I would love to learn more aboutwhat you do, and it'll help me
design the, it'll help me helpyou better, so let's do it.
And I, I walked into theGlendale Hilton, I think it was
September, 2008.
And it was a three day,basically introduction to life
coaching.
And I was just like, oh my gosh.
(26:07):
Like, I love this.
And by the end of the weekend, Ihad decided I was gonna take out
a student loan and I was gonnado the full curriculum because
at the time, and I was justlike, this just, I love this,
you know?
Vicki (26:21):
What did you love so much about it?
What was so and inspiring foryou?
Jen Jones Donatelli (26:28):
Well, I think you and I are similar, or
at least I think we are aroundlike really enjoying like group
dynamics and likeself-discovery.
And the, the funny thing theydon't tell you about most life
coach training is that you getjust as much out of it as you
end up giving to your clientseventually.
So you really grow and learn andlike discover things about
(26:48):
yourself.
And so it was just so much funto like learn about coaching,
learn about myself, and likeconnect with all these cool
people who were becomingcoaches.
And I just was so energized andI was only three years into my
freelance writing career at thistime, so I was like, you know,
I'm already like kind of rockingand rolling with my freelance
writing.
This could be another incomestream.
So I was like, let's, let's dothis.
(27:09):
So like I took out a studentloan.
And, you know, I was stillfreelance writing and editing
and doing all the things,figuring out how to be
self-employed basically.
And so it was a six month Ithink, program where we would go
once a month for three days andlike do a full on training.
And so to be honest with you Idid the full six months and I
(27:30):
got, I was not certified yet atthat point, but I was fully
trained.
Vicki (27:34):
Okay.
Jen Jones Donatelli (27:35):
So I was like, you know what, like I'm
already like writing, like thisis just gonna be one of my
income streams.
I don't need to do thecertification just yet.
So I didn't get certified thattime and I started working with
some one-on-one clients.
But to be honest with you, likeit didn't really take off at
that time.
I was already like kind of like.
Busy with my freelance clientsand it just kind of like fizzled
(27:55):
out, to be honest at that point.
And so,
Vicki (27:59):
well,
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:00):
yeah.
Vicki (28:00):
real quick,'cause I think it's, it's, you said that there
was a couple things you're doingat this time.
It's like your freelance careeris just, is, is kind of
bustling.
You are have steady and, andongoing clients, and number two,
you're doing the artist's way
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:15):
Yes,
Vicki (28:16):
first
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:16):
yes.
Vicki (28:17):
And that is, know, juxtaposing with you going and
learning to be a proactivecoach.
So, just to do a, a quick littlesegue, can you explain what the
artist's way is?
And I would love to talk abouthow that also influenced you
creating creative groove andmaking it kind of what it is
today.
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:37):
Yeah.
So I.
One of my first jobs inproduction in 2002, so like,
pretty much right after I movedto la was on the movie
Daredevil.
It was a Marvel movie with BenAffleck and Jennifer Garner.
And
Vicki (28:50):
Mm-hmm.
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:51):
They kind of like fell for each other on
that set, which is interesting.
'cause he was dating JLo at thetime,
Vicki (28:55):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:57):
but oh, sorry.
So many side notes.
But it was a very difficultshoot.
Like we were literally working18 hour days.
It was such hard work.
I mean, I, I loved it, but itwas hard work.
And so at the end of the, weshot for like nine months for
that movie.
And so at the end of the filmshoot my, the team I was working
for gave me a copy of TheArtist's Way as a gift, like a
(29:19):
thank you because I was, I waslike a, a gopher basically.
I was like a PA person.
So I was very entry level.
And so they gave me like thisgift at the end and it was the
Artist's Way book and journal.
And of course I had never heardof it.
And so I was like, oh, this iscool.
And then I kind of put it on myshelf and I forgot about it for
about six years.
And so in around 2007, 2008, Isaw this flyer like artist way
(29:42):
class at the Bode TreeBookstore.
And I was like, oh, I have abook.
You know, and like, I love, youknow, just new and interesting
experiences.
So I was like, maybe I'll likedo this class.
And so I signed up
Vicki (29:52):
Okay.
Jen Jones Donatelli (29:53):
and again, like, and that was in 2008.
And so it like opened up a wholenew world for me.
And so what it is, is it's, it'sby this point, the book is 32
years old today.
Vicki (30:02):
Wow.
Jen Jones Donatelli (30:03):
it was written in 1992 by Julia
Cameron.
And it's at this, at this time,considered kinda like a timeless
home, you know, for reconnectingyour creativity.
And it's a 12 week program thatyou work through.
And I like to call it ashapeshifter because people get
a lot of different outcomes fromit.
Some people use it to reinventtheir relationship with their
(30:23):
inner critic or like workthrough old beliefs, you know,
that aren't serving themanymore.
Other people use it'cause theyhave like a creative goal
burning inside that they haven'tmoved on.
And they're like, I'm tired oftalking about writing this book.
Like, I need to shift, you know,into momentum.
Vicki (30:38):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (30:39):
Other people come to it because
they're kind of bored in theirlife, to be honest, and they
want some, they wanna get out ofa rut and like feel more
colorful and creative in theirdaily life.
So at that time, oh, also it canbe very helpful in times of
transition.
And I think that's why it reallylanded with, with me at that
time, because again, I waslearning how to be
(31:01):
self-employed.
I was forging a place formyself, you know, in a creative
field.
And I was around, you know, inla the artist's way was kinda
like a rite of passage.
So there were like 60 people inthis class.
Like when I do them, when I dothem here for my own business,
like I usually have maybe 10 to20 people in my classes.
So like, this was like, youknow, a lot of folks doing this.
(31:23):
So it was very energizing.
And so, you know, that's whatthe artist's way is.
And that really opened up arelationship for me with the
artist's way.
So I ended up doing the artist'sway with Kelly Morgan, who
taught that class.
I did it with her like.
Probably three times over acourse of like six years, I
would say.
And I also did her, she had allthe like other advanced
(31:44):
coursework you could do.
So I probably took like six orseven classes with her over a
period of like six years.
And so the artist's way wasbecoming a big part of my world.
And that.
Vicki (31:56):
I do wanna say that I have heard, so when I did, so I
did the Creative Groove Artistweight class with you two years
ago.
And when I told some of myfriends that I was doing it, my
friends who lived in like largermetro areas, so some like
Detroit, New York I'm tellingthem and they're like, oh my
God.
This is a rite of passage forliterally anyone, you know, any
(32:21):
kind of creative or aspiringcreative is to you is to kind of
go through the Artist's Wayprogram to find an unearth what
needs expression, and also tokind of help you deal with some
of those self-worth issues,which you don't, you know, you
don't think about it.
It's like, oh, maybe you'vealways dreamed of being like.
(32:43):
don't know, this is, this justrandomly came to me, but like,
you always wanna be a Zumbainstructor or something and
like, you're not doing it.
Okay.
Well maybe through that it'slike how you feel about your
body and how you reflect that inother people and how you can,
you know, like find that piecewithin.
So I just wanted to do thatlittle side note is it's, it is
(33:03):
seemingly not strange to workthis program as much as you need
it and pull pieces of it in youreveryday life so that you don't
have to go through a 12 stepprogram essentially every time
you need a connect with self.
It's like designed for you touse those, the little pieces to,
to build on and, and grow.
Jen Jones Donatelli (33:25):
It's interesting that you used the
phrasing 12 step program becauseJulia Cameron actually rooted
the book and 12 stepmethodology.
Vicki (33:34):
Remember reading that.
Jen Jones Donatelli (33:35):
yeah.
And so she's a recoveringalcoholic and so she calls the
process of the artist's waycreative recovery.
So you're not necessarilyrecovering from addiction,
you're recovering from beingdisconnected to your creative
self.
And so there's actually a reallyintentional reason that the book
is 12,
Vicki (33:51):
I love that.
Jen Jones Donatelli (33:53):
you know, modules or chapters and there's
so much more to it.
But it is, the artist way doeshave so many pieces and parts,
and so I always like to saylike, take what serves you and
leave the rest because there'sso much there and chances are
you can really benefit, youknow, from some of it.
So.
Vicki (34:08):
Yeah.
And you call it like a creativechiropractor.
That's kind of like whatcreative groove is.
So break that down, like whatwould it mean for someone to go
through a program and what areyour, your client's experience
to get back into creativealignment?
Jen Jones Donatelli (34:26):
Yeah.
Well, so the Artist's Wayexperience that I've designed,
it's a, it's a 12 week class orcohort, so to speak, and I kind
of consider the artist's way,like the textbook of the class
because I bring in a lot of mycoaching, training and other
methodologies.
Like I show different TED talksand like we talk about other
books and, you know.
(34:46):
Philosophies and things too.
So the artist's way isdefinitely the through line of
the experience, but
Vicki (34:51):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (34:51):
reason I call it a creative chiropractor
is we do a lot of work in theclass to like get clear on like,
what are your values?
You know, that you wanna startmaybe reclaim or start honoring
again, you know, to feel morecreative or to move on your
goals.
We do things like a Ikigaiexploration where we, you know,
learn about your Ikigai, whichis essentially your reason for
(35:12):
being.
In some of my previous cohorts,I don't do it every time anymore
because I find that sometimesthis particular exercise is
better one-on-one.
But in the past we've developed,a life purpose statement.
So like we do some pretty meatystuff that's essentially about
figuring out who you arecreatively, you know, and that's
(35:32):
why I call it a creativechiropractor because you're
realigning with.
You know, your true identity asa creative and like
rediscovering it.
So it's like getting you backinto alignment so that you can,
you know, move forward with yourcreative goals.
Vicki (35:47):
And talk
Jen Jones Donatelli (35:48):
I.
Vicki (35:48):
a little bit about the, how do I wanna phrase this?
About the conversations you havewith the non-creative person and
breaking that down from notbeing a traditional like artist,
meaning you're not a painter, adancer, a whatever, but how
(36:10):
humans are innately.
Born and built to create things.
I mean, the female body isdesigned to create and give life
that is like the truest sense ofcreation.
So talk to me about how you cantalk people out of their own
heads who say, well, I'm not anartist per in traditional sense,
and like how they can use thatprinciple in helping themselves
(36:33):
become more expressive.
Jen Jones Donatelli (36:35):
Yeah, I mean, I do think the name of the
book is a little bit of amisnomer because people see it
and they're like, I'm not reallyinterested in like being an
artist, per se.
And so I like to say it's aboutbeing an artist of your own
life.
I.
You know, and like, what doesthat look like to, you know,
paint with bold strokes in yourlife, you know?
And so you know, if people saythey're not creative, like my
ears perk up because I'm like,you have this definition of what
(36:58):
you think creative is.
And it's like, like you said,we're all innately creative and
like, there's some great quotesin the artist's way about the
fact that we are all innatelycreative.
And so I like to help peoplefigure out, like, it might just
look like, you know, where areyou most energized?
You know, how can we do more ofthat?
Or like, what hobbies, whatpassions do you wanna plug back
(37:19):
into, you know, that make youfeel more alive?
So it's really like finding yourflow in your daily life.
And if that includes like takinga water color painting class or
like writing a poem or whateverit might be, that's wonderful.
But maybe it's just like, youwanna do like dopamine dressing
and like, like telegraph yourcreativity in different ways.
(37:39):
And so we kind of just, I lookat, with each of my clients
like.
What are you dissatisfied withor like what goal is burning
inside of you, you know, thatyou need to reignite basically.
And so it is different foreveryone.
But yeah, it's just kind of likedesigning your most creative
life.
That's how I look at it.
And when you have that, when youhave that in place, then you're
(38:00):
in your creative groove.
And like, because I'mmulti-passionate, you know, my
business covers a lot ofdifferent things and so.
It all makes sense to me, but Ineeded to figure out like what
was the ecosystem, you know,what was the through line
running through everything?
And so in the last year, Ideveloped these four pillars
that I consider to be part ofyour creative groove.
(38:22):
So the four pillars arecreativity, productivity
visibility and authenticself-expression.
And I believe that when you dialin all four of those things, you
find your creative groove.
And so any coaching program Ido, any class, any workshop, any
experience, you'll really findthose outcomes reflected in it.
(38:42):
Because I think that's myspecial sauce of being able to
help people like find that Venndiagram sweet spot where tho
those things all meet.
Vicki (38:51):
Yeah.
What inspires you to do it?
Because you're, you are, you'reso passionate about this, you've
been doing it for so long.
I mean, is there like a corethat you hold onto that just
keeps you motivated to keephelping people uncover these
pieces of themselves that maybethey lost or suppressed for so
(39:12):
long?
Jen Jones Donatelli (39:13):
Yeah, I mean I really do love my work
and I'm not gonna lie, like Ifeel like I've been like really
like up about it in this wholeinterview, but it is so
difficult.
I mean, being a solopreneur,it's like you have to love it
because yes, you get to be inyour zone of genius and you get
to do what you love, but youalso have to do every other
thing.
So you have to do
Vicki (39:32):
Yeah,
Jen Jones Donatelli (39:33):
the marketing, the sales calls, you
know, all, all the things thathelp you run your business.
So like.
I am not gonna pretend it'salways like sunshine and roses
because it is like super, superhard.
But luckily I look forward toMondays.
I love what I do.
I'm always coming up with ideas.
And so and shoot, I wanna makesure I, I come back to your
(39:54):
question'cause I had something Iwanted to say around it and I
started like, going off on mytangent, so remind me what your
question actually was so that Ican come back.
Vicki (40:02):
mostly what inspires you to
Jen Jones Donatelli (40:04):
Oh
Vicki (40:05):
doing this kind of work.
Jen Jones Donatelli (40:06):
yes.
Okay.
So so yeah, I've beenself-employed 20 years and the
button of what I was sayingbefore is like, I've.
Really come back to this versionof Creative Groove only in the
last seven to eight years.
Vicki (40:21):
Mm-hmm.
Jen Jones Donatelli (40:21):
Creative Groove has become what it is
today, more in like recentyears.
And so what it is now is it'sbasically a small business, you
know, that offers coachingprograms, courses, workshops,
and community experiences aroundthe art of creative living in
these four buckets.
And the reason I love it is youknow, I love helping people tap
into their creativity.
(40:42):
And one of the reasons that CoveCoaching has been such a good
fit for me is that one of thecornerstone beliefs is that
people are naturally creative,resourceful, and whole.
And so that was kind of bakedinto the coaching model that I
was trained in, even though Icame to that coaching model very
organically and didn't likechoose it for myself
necessarily.
Vicki (41:02):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (41:02):
I ended up finding like an excellent fit
because.
I believe that too.
You know, people are naturallycreative, resourceful, and
whole.
And so I like to help peoplebelieve that for themselves and
embrace that.
And like, what does that looklike and mean if you believe
that about yourself.
And I just, I love teaching andfacilitating and you know, like
I said, I'm a, I was acheerleader, you know, I get to
(41:22):
be a professional cheerleader.
I get to be a creative championfor people and like, I love it.
So, I mean, that's what it is.
It's like I get, and likethere's a lot of different
methods of coaching out there,you know, and I, I hold my
client naturally creativeresource one whole.
So yes, I can bring inconsulting and tell you like my
experiences with book publishingor selling articles or whatever,
(41:45):
and I will help you with that.
But really I believe that youare equipped with what you need.
So I'm not going to tell youwhat you need to do.
I'm going to be there to helpyou unlock your own answers that
are already within of like thedirection you wanna be going,
and then help you like pave theway toward that, you know?
Vicki (42:01):
I love that.
What, what has been maybe one ortwo of the biggest
transformations that you've seenthrough Creative Groove, where
you are just in awe of wheresomeone started versus they
finished, or what they continueto do?
Jen Jones Donatelli (42:17):
Yeah, I mean, it's a little bit
difficult because I hold clientconfidentiality like.
It pretty highly.
And so without permission, it'skind of hard to share some
examples, but I will say in someof the more public facing
success stories so I have acouple signature programs, and
again, they fall into thosebuckets.
So like the two I'll share a fewsuccess stories from are called
(42:39):
March Radness and start yourpress.
Well, I can share some from theartist's way too.
I'll give like a little popery.
So Start Your press is basicallya two day intensive I lead where
I teach people from a journalistperspective how to get media
coverage.
And it's for like small businessowners, entrepreneurs, you know,
thought leaders subject matterexperts who want to learn like
(43:02):
how to be quoted in the pressand raise their profile.
And that has been like reallyexciting because I've been able
to help people, you know, havetheir name in print in places
like, you know, nationalGeographic and Time and like
Fast Company and you know,business Insider.
Like one of my clients actually,she is amazing.
She's a 65-year-old businesscoach
Vicki (43:22):
Okay,
Jen Jones Donatelli (43:22):
and she.
She is just like, just gettingstarted.
Like she runs two companies, shedoesn't wanna retire.
And so she and I kinda came upwith this concept that we
pitched to Business Insider fora first person essay about the
fact that she has no desire toretire and she feels like she's
just getting started.
And so her essay was publishedin Business Insider about a
month or two ago.
(43:44):
And so that was really exciting.
And so and like I've helped someof my other clients like speak
at conferences and stuff.
So we look at like, what areyour visibility goals?
And then we kind of, and, and bythe way, so I do the two day
intensives, but I also work withpeople one-on-one if they wish
around that.
Vicki (43:59):
Okay.
Jen Jones Donatelli (44:00):
so it's been really cool to help really
talented people you know, growtheir authority having more
visibility.
So that would be a couplesuccess stories there.
And then every year I dosomething called March Radness.
And I know it's already passedby the time you're listening to
this, but Vicki was actually oneof my guest experts this year.
it's actually happening,happening right now as we
Vicki (44:19):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (44:20):
record this interview.
But it's a, week long freechallenge where we use a March
Madness SPI inspired bracket tonarrow down a lot of ideas to
your next right thing.
And some of the success storiesof this have just been so
wonderful to see, because at theend of the challenge, we declare
what I call your bright idea.
And then I'm gonna check in withyou throughout the year, you
(44:41):
know, and see like, how's itgoing?
Did you do the thing?
You know?
And what's been fun is to seethe people who activated their
idea, so.
Personal and professional.
You know, people have doneeverything from decide to go
back to grad grad school, sothere's even a march Radness
baby, believe it or not.
Like someone decided that it wasthe, it was the right time for
her to start a family, you know,and she did, and she like said
(45:03):
that March Radness helped herget clear on that.
Vicki (45:05):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (45:06):
like professional stuff like, you
know, someone last year decidedthat she was going to do a short
film series based on astorytelling event that she had
started within a healthcareorganization.
And all of those short filmshave been shot now and are like
being screened and everything.
And so it's really cool towatch.
And then Annette Tack who hasdone March Redness for many
years, she's a career coach andwhat she has worked on over the
(45:29):
last few years'cause I also doone-on-one coaching off the back
of Mark Ven.
So we have worked together andher book was published this
January.
And so to be able to help peopleshepherd their ideas and see
them through to fruition, youknow, is so exciting.
And then like with the artist'sway, you know.
It's so cool to see becausesometimes people just get back
(45:49):
in touch with what they wannado.
So like there was one person whotook it and like, she bought an
RV at the end and she ended upjust like traveling all over.
And she also restarted her pastacompany that she had, had
dormant for a long time.
And so like, and like anotherwoman talked about how she
always wanted to have asculpting studio in her house
and like she ended up doing it,you know, after the artist's
(46:10):
way.
And so I wouldn't say it's, Imean, yes, there's magic in the
book, there's magic in thecoaching I bring, but really
it's just like people finallydeciding to do the things they
wanna do.
Like, I don't really like, likeposing it like I did this thing
and then they did, like, that'snot really what it is.
It's more like, I'm gonna helpyou write out a permission slip
(46:31):
for yourself to do this thingand then we're gonna figure out
how to do it together.
So it's kind of like, I'm gonnabe like the wind under your
wings, but like.
They are the people who aredoing these things in the world
and like deserve the credit forit.
So
Vicki (46:42):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (46:43):
exciting to be part of.
Vicki (46:45):
Yeah, it is.
And I mean, that's what a truecoach is, is like, I, I, I mean,
athletes are like the easiestgo-to, but it's not like you
give, and a coach doesn't givean athlete talent or give them
like the putting in the extrahours and really honing in on
what they're great at.
You're creating a container toinspire, to give them room to
(47:05):
grow, to guide, but likeultimately you have no power
over what someone does ordoesn't decide to do.
And I think as an individual whoI have gone through different
coaching programs, I, I feellike I am always focused on some
kind of self-improvement that,that is.
That's something that took me along time to learn and to really
(47:27):
accept that no one is coming tosave me.
No one who's has the, the magicpill to tell me and, and make me
better, but.
Turning on that kind of thing inyour, in your mind and knowing
you're capable of so many thingsand you have the power to do it,
(47:48):
it's just reinforced by thepeople around you that help kind
of fan the flame, you know?
So I think that's, that's whoyou are.
Jen and I, I know since we'rekind of closing this interview
down, I'm, I want our listenersto be left with, with something
practical that they can do, andeven to feel 1% more creative or
Jen Jones Donatelli (48:10):
Mm.
Vicki (48:11):
closer to doing the thing that they said they, they wanted
to do.
Whether it's climb MountKilimanjaro or it's take a
pottery class or like whatever,but what is one practical thing
that you can leave them with tostart today?
Jen Jones Donatelli (48:28):
Well, actually I'm gonna build on
something you just said becauseI think it kind of needs to be
said.
'cause I know a lot of thepeople that listen to this, you
know, are business owners orentrepreneurs or, you know,
doing their own thing in life.
And like I think a lot of timeswe do, like one of the, one of
the women I met recently callsit getting guru.
Vicki (48:50):
Okay.
Jen Jones Donatelli (48:50):
Like we do kind of like invest in the
programs or like the courses oreverything.
And those are very valuable.
Like, I'm not gonna diminishthat at all, but I think there
comes a point where it turnsinto procrast learning and it's
like we think we need, like we,like we almost become like
addicted to like courses orlike, you know, doing all the
things.
And at some point it's kind oflike tuning inward to trust
(49:12):
yourself and believe that you dohave what it takes, you know?
And like you've put in the timeto learn, you know, you've
invested.
Like now is the time for you toactivate and implement.
Because I think a lot of times,and like, I'm actually gonna
talk about this today in MarchMadness.
So there's like a little bit of
Vicki (49:28):
great.
Jen Jones Donate (49:28):
synchronicity, but James Clear and Atomic
Habits talks about motion versusaction.
And motion is preparing to dosomething and action is doing
the thing.
And so I think, you know, ifyou're kind of like in limbo
right now, think about like, amI just staying in motion and
like what would action looklike?
(49:48):
And so I would just encourageyou, like, if you're feeling a
little stagnant or stuck to likeone, like ask yourself like, am
I kind of believing that I needall these external things to be
able to do the thing I wanna do?
Or have I already kind of donethat and I'm, I'm more ready
than I might think.
So just do like a little bit ofinventory of like, how am I
(50:11):
gonna trust myself to like, torun with this?
You know?
And the, and I, I, I hope thatthe answer will be yes,
Vicki (50:18):
Yeah.
And that there's resources alongthe way to help you get there if
you're not quite there.
So
Jen Jones Donatelli (50:23):
yes.
I.
Vicki (50:25):
All of your contact information in the episode
notes, how to join CreativeGroove, how to take advantage of
all the programs that Jen runsthroughout the year.
She does a lot of freeprogramming too, so if you wanna
dip your toe and just kind oflearn what all this is all about
it's a great way to connect withCreative Groove and with Jen
Jones Donatelli.
(50:46):
So I'm so happy that we wereable to make this work and love
having you as a guest
Welcome back to the Vicki Kotris podcast, where we
spotlight bold women doingbrilliant things.
And today's guest is the epitomeof creative reinvention.
Meet Jen Jones Donatelli, acertified cove coach, creative
facilitator, and the founder ofCreative Groove.
A small business with a bigmission helping people
rediscover their spark throughcoaching courses and community.
(01:11):
Before she was coachingcreatives into alignment, Jen
spent nearly 20 years working inmedia and entertainment.
Think Red carpets, featurefilms, award shows, and bylines
and glamor, business Insider,and even Playboy.
She's taught everywhere fromLoyola Marymount to Literary
Cleveland.
Jen is here to talk aboutfinding your flow, reigniting
joy, and why creativity isn'tjust a hobby, it's a lifeline.
(01:34):
So
Jen Jones Donatelli (01:35):
Ooh,
Vicki (01:35):
in.
Jen Jones Donatelli (01:36):
can I please hire you as my
copywriter?
That was amazing.
Vicki (01:40):
I'm here for you,
Jen Jones Donatelli (01:42):
Thank you.
Vicki (01:42):
take all the credit because chat, GPT is always my
AI assistant
Jen Jones Donatelli (01:47):
Oh, so confession time.
I have never logged into chat.
GPTI have never used it.
I am like one of those likeLuddite people that's like, no,
you know, so, so it's reallycool.
You're, you're starting to turnthe tide for me there.
Vicki (02:03):
is a amazing guide.
And I was just talking to an, Iwas talking to a copywriter
about it actually, who had verystrong opinions of why people
shouldn't use it, and she wasdipping her toe into the idea of
how to use it.
And it's basically what we cameto is it's never gonna replace
(02:24):
just.
The human element of creativitythat we'll always need, but
using it as a guide is sopowerful, especially in those
kind of creative funks whereyou're just like, time is of the
essence and you need somethingto help get you there.
Jen Jones Donatelli (02:40):
Yeah, and like I'm gonna be on a panel
coming up.
It's on April 11th.
But chat, GPT, one of my fellowpanelists actually used it, used
it to come up with the title,and I love the title.
So slowly but surely, I'm beingwon over by this.
Vicki (02:54):
Absolutely.
Don't let the, you know, therobots aren't taking over yet,
Jen, so don't fear not, but itcan be used in very powerful
ways.
I'm a big fan.
Jen Jones Donatelli (03:03):
And it's more like the journalist in me.
Like for instance, so this is alittle bit of a side note, but
as part of my freelance career,I was work for hire author for
over a decade.
So I have authored over ahundred books for kids.
Vicki (03:14):
Wow.
Jen Jones Donatelli (03:14):
And I think 14 of my books were part of meta
has this whole thing going onright now where a lot of authors
are doing a class action suit,basically because they used our
books to train their ai.
And so you know, they, theyviolated copyright and
everything like that.
So I think just because of thefact that, you know, writers and
(03:36):
intellectual property is beingused to kind of train ai, that's
why I've been so stubborn.
But I can definitely see, someof the creative benefits as well
as like kind of thatfoundational piece that you
talked about, like helping sparkideas, you know, and so I think
I'll come around.
It's more just me, like plantingmy flag in the ground of like,
humans matter, you know, writingmatters, you know, and I, I want
(03:59):
to keep those really essentialpieces of creativity in place.
Vicki (04:03):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And have the authenticity justhonored throughout the process.
So I, I completely understand.
I, I wanna dive into actuallytalking more about your
journalism career and you as awriter over the past 20 years,
and you've had such an amazingcareer in entertainment, in
journalism.
(04:24):
So I wanna know, just in likebehind the scenes of it all,
what is something that peoplewould be surprised to hear of
everything that you've donethroughout your career?
Jen Jones Donatelli (04:35):
Kind of a fun fact, I guess it's semi
surprising.
I don't know.
So my very fir, well, it wasn'tmy very first job actually, but
it was my very first job where Ifelt like I was on the right
path.
I worked at a nationallysyndicated talk show called the
Jenny Jones Show, and this wasback in the late nineties when
it was kind of like the talkshow heyday, like, you know,
(04:57):
Oprah was on the air and youcould probably rattle off like
10 talk show hosts, you know,and Jenny Jones was one of them.
And that was my first.
Full well, no, sorry, I keepsaying it was my first job.
It wasn't my first job but itwas my first job where I got on
my creative path.
But anyway, I guess a fun factis, you know, my maiden name is
Jen Jones and I worked at theJenny Jones Show.
(05:17):
So it's kind of like a fun factbecause that job was really life
changing for me and it taught meso much and it, it, what it
showed me was, you know, I had ajournalism degree when I was
working in television productionand I was the website producer.
So it was kind of cool because Iwas writing show recaps and I
was doing, you know, photographyon set and I was interviewing
(05:38):
the musical guests.
And actually I sold one of myfirst freelance pieces through
that,
Vicki (05:42):
Amazing.
Jen Jones Donatelli (05:43):
I was able to use my journalism skills, you
know, in a TV productionenvironment and it kind of
showed me, I.
Like, you can blend yourpassions, you know, with your
profession, you know, and kindof like carve out a place for
yourself, you know, in thespaces that you're interested in
dancing in.
So it was really foundationalfor me in terms of like how my
career ended up playing out.
(06:04):
But just from a surprisingstandpoint, it's kind of fun
that, like, that was my name andI, and I worked at the Jenny
Jones show.
I was not the host.
There's a different Jenny Jonesthat was the host.
But yeah, so I would say thatwould be kind of a surprising
fact.
Vicki (06:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That seems very serendipitous.
And I'm just curious because youmentioned this a couple times
and of saying what kind of goingthrough that, that story is that
it was before that you maybedidn't have a laid path of where
your passions and creativitycome together.
(06:37):
So out of curiosity, what didthat look like to you?
You know, a fresh graduate of,you know, being a journalist,
what you studied for so long for
Jen Jones Donatelli (06:48):
Yeah.
And like I, I graduated OhioUniversity, which I know we're
both alumni, or alumni I shouldsay, of and I graduated in 1998,
so I'm, I'm older than you.
Vicki (06:58):
That's okay.
Just by a
Jen Jones Donatelli (07:00):
but you know, I felt like the whole
world was at my fingertips, youknow, like I was so interested
in so many different things.
And I ended up moving to Chicagoright after graduation.
And fun fact, if anyone knowsChicago, well, I didn't even
know that people lived in thecity.
I moved to the suburbs ofChicago because I didn't, I
(07:20):
didn't even know that peoplelived in the city, and so I
lived in Arlington Heights,which by the way, was an awesome
place to live.
Like I lived right across fromthe metro train.
I commuted on the metro trainevery single day into the city,
and then I figured out like, oh,like.
I belong in the city.
So after about six months, Imoved down there.
But my first job was actuallyfor like an advertising agency
(07:43):
doing, I was a sales andmarketing associate.
So I, I did enjoy the work.
I mean, I was you know, writing,marketing copy and you know,
helping with different tasksaround the office.
And I did learn a little bitabout video production'cause
they were doing, you know,different projects for clients
and stuff, but it was reallymore in sales and marketing.
And,
Vicki (08:01):
Mm-hmm.
Jen Jones Donatelli (08:01):
I was essentially an admin, although I
did end up getting moreresponsibility as time went on.
And I worked there for about ayear.
And then I ended up getting ajob for basically a social club
in Chicago.
And it was kind of like asingles social club.
And so I was the event plannerand I.
My job was just to plan allthese outings that people could
(08:23):
meet and mingle.
So we did everything from likeskydiving to like theater
outings kayaking, can, we didall kinds of things and it was
my job to kind of like curatethese experiences and help
people connect you know, in realtime.
And it was a really, really cooljob.
But I actually got fired fromit, believe it or not.
Vicki (08:42):
the first, the first paint.
The first like, oh, that hurts,
Jen Jones Donatelli (08:47):
It really, I was devastated.
I was absolutely devastatedbecause it was, it was more of a
personality match with the ownerof the company than it was my
performance.
And I didn't even know therewasn't a personality match, so I
was just.
So surprised'cause I thoughteverything was going great.
And so, and I have some kind, Iwon't go too far into the side
(09:08):
note, but a couple interesting,really small stories about that
are, I had to take the bus homeafter I got fired.
I was like wailing, sobbing onthe bus.
Like I could not control myself.
And I, I got to my apartment.
I lived in Lincoln Park and Iwent upstairs to my, you know, I
had the teeniest tiniestapartment.
(09:28):
I called it the shoebox.
It was like 600 square feet.
And I'm just like, could notstop crying.
And a few days later I get thisnote under my door and it was
from this guy that lived downthe hall.
And he is like, I heard you theother day.
And you know, I just want you toknow that like, if you need help
with your job search or anythingyou can come knock on my door
and.
Vicki (09:47):
Oh my
Jen Jones Donatelli (09:47):
was like such a nice display of kindness.
But what I ended up doing, andthis has a point I promise is I
ended up temping because I, Itype really fast.
That's like another fun fact.
I can type like 120 wordsminutes.
So I ended up typing or temping,temping and typing
Vicki (10:03):
Tapping, typing.
Got it.
Jen Jones Donatelli (10:04):
and I worked at a bug spray company on
Michigan Avenue.
And I would take the bus thereevery day and as I would take
the bus, and I actually reallyenjoyed working at the bug spray
company, but across the streetwas the NBC Tower where the
Jenny Jones show filmed.
And I would literally stare outthe window every single day.
The peacock was at the top ofthe building.
I would stare out the window.
I was like, I wanna work there,I wanna work there, I wanna work
(10:26):
there.
And then one day I was ridingthe bus to the bug spray company
Vicki (10:31):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (10:31):
The Chicago Reader, which is a popular
newspaper in Chicago, I had ajob listing for a website
coordinator at the Jenny JonesShow, and I moved every mountain
to get an interview.
And the rest was history.
So, so I had a couple jobs thatlike, weren't really a great fit
in the beginning,
Vicki (10:50):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (10:51):
it was like game on.
Vicki (10:53):
Okay.
So there's so many things that Ilove about that whole story.
Number one is I too got firedfrom one of my first big girl
jobs, and it is devastatingbecause it lays some kind of
foundation, whether it's true ornot, which I know in, in our
cases this is not true, thatyou're not.
(11:15):
Good enough, or you're not smartenough, or you're not ex, you
know, fill in the blank to do agood job at whatever it is
you're doing.
And that's a real shitty way tostart a career, is to already
count yourself out of the gamebefore you've even really
started the first quarter.
And I let that be a story in myown mind for far, far too long
(11:38):
that I wasn't good enough, or Icould never be this X person
that I had in my mind.
Whereas what I know to be truenow is that very much like
watering and taking care of thatseed and growing along the way
and appreciating, you know,every little inch that you get
(11:59):
better and better.
I know with time, with the rightpeople, with the right
resources, I could have beenamazing at that job.
And that just goes to show, youknow, it's not always.
You know, sometimes it's an USproblem and we're in the, we're
in the height of our evolvinginto what we will become.
But it is so hard when thathappens so early in your career
(12:19):
and unexpectedly so, I very muchfind connection in your story.
And the second thing that I loveabout it is, you are working at
a bug spray company and you'relike, this isn't, this isn't
terrible.
I don't hate it.
you are also, you are also kindof like a human vision board at
(12:41):
this point because you'restaring at your window and you
are creating in your mind's eyewhere you wanna be, what you
wanna do.
And Jen, that's so cool becauseyou really then, now it's like
it's implanted in your mind.
How are you gonna get there?
Like, make it happen foryourself And you did.
Jen Jones Donatelli (13:02):
I will tell you, Vicki, I have so many
stories throughout my career ofmanifesting the exact job that I
wanted, and to be honest withyou, like I.
I have a little bit of acomplicated relationship with
manifestation.
Like
Vicki (13:14):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (13:15):
really gel with the law of attraction as
much as some people.
I really believe in activemanifestation, which I kind of
define as like, if I know what Iwant, I am going to network and
like move all my mountains andlike find a way to make that
thing happen.
So I kind of believe in likeworking hand in hand with the
universe to, you know, activateyour goals and dreams.
But like the law of attractionhas just never really resonated
(13:36):
with me that much, but I.
Vicki (13:38):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (13:38):
much believe in manifestation and
I've seen it happen again andagain, in my career.
And so, that was the firstinstance of it.
And you're so right.
And I think we do get to createour own opportunities, you know,
and so it's just kind offiguring out like, how do I do
that?
You know, and that's what I liketo help my clients do.
And I'll just say like, sidenote number 10, you know, I
(13:59):
don't like knowing you as I do,you know, I was kind of shocked
to hear that you were fired froma job, you know?
'cause I happen to think likeboth of us are catches.
You know, like we're teamplayers,
Vicki (14:09):
we're tens,
Jen Jones Donatelli (14:10):
team players, smart, creative, like
fun.
Like why would you fire us?
I don't understand this.
Vicki (14:17):
A hundred percent.
I know.
And it's like I said, I spentfar too much of my twenties just
kind of thinking that that wasmy story.
And you know, it takes you along time to get outta that.
And I hope if anyone is goingthrough that, especially in the
where we are in the world,layoffs are kind of a given in a
lot of industries right now.
(14:38):
And so to just kind of say, youknow, it's, it's them not me,
and I'm amazing and I'm gonnabring whatever energy and you
never know where that's gonnatake you.
Jen Jones Donatelli (14:47):
I think that extends to like, sorry.
Vicki (14:50):
oh yeah, go ahead.
Jen Jones Donatelli (14:50):
No, I think that extends to all kinds of
rejections, like when we don'tget the job we want, or if we're
applying for a literary journalor if we, I.
Go for something, you know, thatwe don't get.
I think we do make it meansomething about us, and often
it's just really arbitraryfactors, you know, especially in
today's day and age.
And so we have to kind of likerealize that it doesn't mean
(15:12):
anything about our worth.
It's just like the confluence offactors didn't line up in the
right way for that opportunityat that time.
Vicki (15:20):
Yes, yes.
Wholeheartedly believe that itis redirection.
So how did this shift yourmindset over time to say,
because you're working in acorporate world and you have for
many years, I know you've been afreelance.
You've been freelance for, youknow, in, in the most recent
(15:40):
past.
But what happened in corporatecareer that you were like, I'm
noticing this shift, like, like.
aren't expressing themselves, ormaybe you're not expressing
yourself and you lost that alongthe way.
I'm just curious what was, whatwas that kind of inflection
point for you to then go on andinspire?
Creative groove?
Jen Jones Donatelli (16:01):
I'll be really honest with you, Vicki.
I don't feel like I ever haveworked in corporate.
The only nine to five job I'veever really had was that first
year working at the advertisingagency.
Ever since then, I have hadeither untraditional jobs or
have worked for myself.
And so I've been atself-employed full-time for 20
years this year.
(16:22):
And before that I was working infilm and television, which is
like not a conventional settingwhatsoever, even though it is
way more than nine to five, likeit's full-time work.
Vicki (16:31):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (16:31):
but I don't really, and that's, I've, I
don't feel like I've ever reallyworked in corporate, so I feel
like you could probably speak tothat way better than me.
Vicki (16:40):
Yeah, I, I guess I look at working for a larger
organization where there arethings that come up, like
bureaucracy, some, you knowpopularity contests among your
coworkers.
Like the, a lot of the thingsthat I see, and, and that's kind
of how I equate it to, is notnecessarily working a
conventional nine to five in acubicle, but working in the
(17:02):
confines of someone else's kindof structure container where you
don't feel like you are able toexpress yourself as much as you
may want to, because it's just,that's not the path that exists
in that container.
Jen Jones Donatelli (17:18):
Yeah, no, I think once I started working at
the Jenny Jones show and then Iworked for several other talk
shows that were for the samecompany I was always so lit up
by the work I was doing and Iwas just like a kid in a candy
store, like getting to like seebehind the scenes of, you know,
the entertainment industry.
Like I never really felt likethat, to be honest.
(17:39):
I definitely had my moments hereand there, but to be honest with
you, like.
Working at that show reallychanged the game for me and you
know, showed me it's kind ofpossible to like love your work.
And that's how I felt, you know,ever since then.
So, yes, my first like year anda half, like not so great, but I
feel lucky that I found acreative trajectory early on
(18:01):
that really spoke to me.
Vicki (18:03):
Yeah.
Oh, Jen, I love that you saidthat too because I, I, I
sometimes get in a black holeof, of the conversations because
I, I tend to talk to a lot ofpeople that are, have, have
resented the opportunities andprocesses and maybe it's like
not working in a creative fieldor an industry that does that a
little bit.
It, it kind of stifles thoseparts of us and so I tend to
(18:26):
have a lot of conversationsabout that.
But hearing you say no, there,there are many paths that open
that up, that light you up, thatgive you, kind of feed your soul
in that way because it's not allbad.
And I, and I tend to kind oflean on the dark side of it and
I shouldn't because you can haveamazing experiences and just use
(18:48):
them to then design and buildthe life that you want,
Jen Jones Donatelli (18:51):
Yes.
And like,
Vicki (18:52):
What you do.
Jen Jones Donatelli (18:53):
yeah.
And my creative groove looksdifferent than your creative
groove looks different thanSusie's creative groove looks
different than, and so like,even though I love working in
creative fields, like someoneelse might feel the same exact
way I do about like, bookkeepingor, you know fashion design or
like running a manufacturingcompany or something like that.
So.
(19:14):
I don't think you necessarilyhave to be in a creative field
to feel like you're in yourcreative groove.
And so that's kind of what Ihelp people do.
I help them find their owncreative groove where they are
kind of like in their flow andwhere they're, they're working
with how they're wired, in somesort of setting that supports
them, whether it'sself-employment or a job they
enjoy or, you know, fill in theblank here.
(19:35):
So it's like, kind of like asnowflake, you know, everyone's
creative groove is different,but I definitely found mine
early on and I'm really gratefulfor that.
'cause it kind of showed me whatwas possible.
Vicki (19:46):
Yeah.
Is there was there like aspecific experience in your
career in entertainment andjournalism that you feel like
really has helped you inbuilding creative groove and
ultimately coaching people andfinding creativity?
Jen Jones Donatelli (20:04):
Wow.
Well, I guess I can give alittle bit of background into
like how creative Groove startedand then maybe, maybe it'll be
more clear to me, like, like atipping point.
Because so, you know, I said Iworked at the Jenny Jones show,
so I did that for three years.
And I just loved it so much thatI decided to move to LA because
even though I loved living inChicago and I loved my job, I
(20:25):
was like really wanting to likesee what, what, what else was
available in the entertainmentindustry.
So I moved out there and Iactually moved out there a week
after September 11th.
So
Vicki (20:35):
Wow.
Jen Jones Donatelli (20:35):
I was on one of the first flights, you
know, to leave Chicago afterthat.
And it was a very difficulttime, you know, obviously in our
country, but also particularlyin the entertainment industry
because there was a flight, youknow, I think either from to or
from LA where a lot of peoplehad passed away.
And production was kind of shutdown.
So when I got there, I was kindof like.
(20:56):
You know, figuring it all out.
And so I had to really pound thepavement, you know, to start
finding work and everything.
And there's, I have tons ofstories I can tell about that,
but again, I don't wanna do toomany side notes, so, you know,
funny story there.
So for about eight years, Iwould say, you know, between
Chicago and those first years inLA I was essentially a
production freelancer.
(21:17):
So I was working on like,feature films or like sitcoms or
like, I worked at Eon Online fora year as kind of like a ghost
writer slash red carpetreporter.
And then I got a call from TelePictures, which had produced the
Jenny Jones Show, and they werebringing the, the Jenny Jones
show had been canceled.
And so a lot of the staff wasmoving out to LA to work on the
Sharon Osborne show.
And so I went and worked onthat, you know, and then I went
(21:39):
and worked on, another talk showafter that with, with the same
group.
But the, the reason I bring thisup is during that time I had
actually started freelancewriting.
So I had, was kind of likehonoring my journalism degree as
almost like a side hustle in away.
'cause I was like learning howto write and sell articles to
magazines and publications.
And some of that came from a lotof OU connections, you know.
(22:02):
And so I like to say like, useyour network, whatever that
looks like.
If it's an alumni network, youknow, where, wherever it may be
because you might be surprised,you know, how it can really help
you set sale with some of thegoals that you have.
It definitely helped me in thoseearly days.
And that was how I, got, like, Iended up being, having a work
for hire author as one of myfreelance gigs.
(22:23):
I,
Vicki (22:23):
cool.
Jen Jones Donatelli (22:24):
long story short, I started freelancing for
American Cheerleader Magazinethrough an OU connection because
I have a, a background, youknow, in dance and cheerleading,
and I loved it.
And I was writing, I was writingfor like this family of 10 dance
and cheerleading magazines.
And a publisher approached themagazine to say like, do you
know any, you know, writers wholove writing about cheerleading?
And they recommended me and oneother person.
(22:46):
And I I got chosen to write asix book nonfiction series about
cheerleading.
And I was still working at theSharon Osborne show during that
time.
So I was like, doing all thesethings, you know, and, it, it
started a 10 year relationshipwith this publisher where I
essentially was kind of like afreelance author.
They call it Work for Hire.
So they would come to me withdifferent projects that they
wanted to do and I would bringthem to life for them.
(23:07):
So I wrote all different kindsof books for young girls.
But anyway so I was like, kindahad this big side hustle going
and I was like working inentertainment.
And in 2005 I was working onanother talk show with tele
pictures.
When that show got canceled, Ihad like all this side writing
work going on.
And so I was kind of like, youknow, there's not a lot of
(23:29):
production stuff happening inthe summertime.
I'll just kinda like freelanceand like ride out these writing
projects, you know, over thesummer and then I'll find
another job, you know, inproduction.
But it ended up being kind of anaccidental detour into becoming
a full-time freelance writer.
I never really, I did.
So it's interesting'cause thescales kind of tipped at that
(23:52):
point because I continued tolike freelance on award shows
and do small projects.
But it was kind of like beforethat I was doing entertainment
and production full-time withlike a side hustle of writing.
And then it became, I waswriting full-time, but I had
some side hustles, you know, inthe entertainment world.
So it was almost like a flipswitch and around that time.
(24:12):
So I started freelancing in2005.
I create, I don't know how itcame to me.
I think it was probably'cause Iwas doing a lot of writing about
dance and cheerleading.
I decided to buy the domainname, creative groove.
I just liked it and I thoughtit, like, you know, spoke to
kind of how I approached my workand like how I viewed my work,
(24:32):
but also it kind of describedwhat I was doing and at that
time it was literally just aportfolio website where I kept
like all my magazine articlesand like if people wanted to
hire me, I would send them,Doug, here's my website.
So.
I trademarked the name in 2008
Vicki (24:48):
Wow.
Jen Jones Donatelli (24:49):
and also 2008 was a very pivotal year for
me because first of all, Itrademarked the name Creative
Groove.
I took the Artist's way as aparticipant for the first time,
Vicki (24:59):
Okay.
Jen Jones Donatelli (25:00):
and I was working with a client who was an
author and she was also a cocoach, which coaching was not as
mainstream back then, so Ididn't even really know what
that was.
And so she had written a bookcalled respect rx, which was
like a book for young girls allabout respect, self respect,
respect for others, respect forthe world.
And she hired me to kind of helpher lead and design some
(25:23):
workshops and be kind of like a,it was more than an assistant,
but it was kind of like aoperations person.
I was kinda like helping her,you know, get her workshops out
into the world and get her bookout into the world.
But she wanted me to understandthe coaching piece.
So she basically paid for me,she sponsored me to do Cove
Fundamentals, which is theorientation to cove coaching.
(25:46):
And like I said, I didn't reallyeven know what I was doing.
I was like, sure, that'samazing.
I would love to learn more aboutwhat you do, and it'll help me
design the, it'll help me helpyou better, so let's do it.
And I, I walked into theGlendale Hilton, I think it was
September, 2008.
And it was a three day,basically introduction to life
coaching.
And I was just like, oh my gosh.
(26:07):
Like, I love this.
And by the end of the weekend, Ihad decided I was gonna take out
a student loan and I was gonnado the full curriculum because
at the time, and I was justlike, this just, I love this,
you know?
Vicki (26:21):
What did you love so much about it?
What was so and inspiring foryou?
Jen Jones Donatelli (26:28):
Well, I think you and I are similar, or
at least I think we are aroundlike really enjoying like group
dynamics and likeself-discovery.
And the, the funny thing theydon't tell you about most life
coach training is that you getjust as much out of it as you
end up giving to your clientseventually.
So you really grow and learn andlike discover things about
(26:48):
yourself.
And so it was just so much funto like learn about coaching,
learn about myself, and likeconnect with all these cool
people who were becomingcoaches.
And I just was so energized andI was only three years into my
freelance writing career at thistime, so I was like, you know,
I'm already like kind of rockingand rolling with my freelance
writing.
This could be another incomestream.
So I was like, let's, let's dothis.
(27:09):
So like I took out a studentloan.
And, you know, I was stillfreelance writing and editing
and doing all the things,figuring out how to be
self-employed basically.
And so it was a six month Ithink, program where we would go
once a month for three days andlike do a full on training.
And so to be honest with you Idid the full six months and I
(27:30):
got, I was not certified yet atthat point, but I was fully
trained.
Vicki (27:34):
Okay.
Jen Jones Donatelli (27:35):
So I was like, you know what, like I'm
already like writing, like thisis just gonna be one of my
income streams.
I don't need to do thecertification just yet.
So I didn't get certified thattime and I started working with
some one-on-one clients.
But to be honest with you, likeit didn't really take off at
that time.
I was already like kind of like.
Busy with my freelance clientsand it just kind of like fizzled
(27:55):
out, to be honest at that point.
And so,
Vicki (27:59):
well,
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:00):
yeah.
Vicki (28:00):
real quick,'cause I think it's, it's, you said that there
was a couple things you're doingat this time.
It's like your freelance careeris just, is, is kind of
bustling.
You are have steady and, andongoing clients, and number two,
you're doing the artist's way
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:15):
Yes,
Vicki (28:16):
first
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:16):
yes.
Vicki (28:17):
And that is, know, juxtaposing with you going and
learning to be a proactivecoach.
So, just to do a, a quick littlesegue, can you explain what the
artist's way is?
And I would love to talk abouthow that also influenced you
creating creative groove andmaking it kind of what it is
today.
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:37):
Yeah.
So I.
One of my first jobs inproduction in 2002, so like,
pretty much right after I movedto la was on the movie
Daredevil.
It was a Marvel movie with BenAffleck and Jennifer Garner.
And
Vicki (28:50):
Mm-hmm.
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:51):
They kind of like fell for each other on
that set, which is interesting.
'cause he was dating JLo at thetime,
Vicki (28:55):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (28:57):
but oh, sorry.
So many side notes.
But it was a very difficultshoot.
Like we were literally working18 hour days.
It was such hard work.
I mean, I, I loved it, but itwas hard work.
And so at the end of the, weshot for like nine months for
that movie.
And so at the end of the filmshoot my, the team I was working
for gave me a copy of TheArtist's Way as a gift, like a
(29:19):
thank you because I was, I waslike a, a gopher basically.
I was like a PA person.
So I was very entry level.
And so they gave me like thisgift at the end and it was the
Artist's Way book and journal.
And of course I had never heardof it.
And so I was like, oh, this iscool.
And then I kind of put it on myshelf and I forgot about it for
about six years.
And so in around 2007, 2008, Isaw this flyer like artist way
(29:42):
class at the Bode TreeBookstore.
And I was like, oh, I have abook.
You know, and like, I love, youknow, just new and interesting
experiences.
So I was like, maybe I'll likedo this class.
And so I signed up
Vicki (29:52):
Okay.
Jen Jones Donatelli (29:53):
and again, like, and that was in 2008.
And so it like opened up a wholenew world for me.
And so what it is, is it's, it'sby this point, the book is 32
years old today.
Vicki (30:02):
Wow.
Jen Jones Donatelli (30:03):
it was written in 1992 by Julia
Cameron.
And it's at this, at this time,considered kinda like a timeless
home, you know, for reconnectingyour creativity.
And it's a 12 week program thatyou work through.
And I like to call it ashapeshifter because people get
a lot of different outcomes fromit.
Some people use it to reinventtheir relationship with their
(30:23):
inner critic or like workthrough old beliefs, you know,
that aren't serving themanymore.
Other people use it'cause theyhave like a creative goal
burning inside that they haven'tmoved on.
And they're like, I'm tired oftalking about writing this book.
Like, I need to shift, you know,into momentum.
Vicki (30:38):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (30:39):
Other people come to it because
they're kind of bored in theirlife, to be honest, and they
want some, they wanna get out ofa rut and like feel more
colorful and creative in theirdaily life.
So at that time, oh, also it canbe very helpful in times of
transition.
And I think that's why it reallylanded with, with me at that
time, because again, I waslearning how to be
(31:01):
self-employed.
I was forging a place formyself, you know, in a creative
field.
And I was around, you know, inla the artist's way was kinda
like a rite of passage.
So there were like 60 people inthis class.
Like when I do them, when I dothem here for my own business,
like I usually have maybe 10 to20 people in my classes.
So like, this was like, youknow, a lot of folks doing this.
(31:23):
So it was very energizing.
And so, you know, that's whatthe artist's way is.
And that really opened up arelationship for me with the
artist's way.
So I ended up doing the artist'sway with Kelly Morgan, who
taught that class.
I did it with her like.
Probably three times over acourse of like six years, I
would say.
And I also did her, she had allthe like other advanced
(31:44):
coursework you could do.
So I probably took like six orseven classes with her over a
period of like six years.
And so the artist's way wasbecoming a big part of my world.
And that.
Vicki (31:56):
I do wanna say that I have heard, so when I did, so I
did the Creative Groove Artistweight class with you two years
ago.
And when I told some of myfriends that I was doing it, my
friends who lived in like largermetro areas, so some like
Detroit, New York I'm tellingthem and they're like, oh my
God.
This is a rite of passage forliterally anyone, you know, any
(32:21):
kind of creative or aspiringcreative is to you is to kind of
go through the Artist's Wayprogram to find an unearth what
needs expression, and also tokind of help you deal with some
of those self-worth issues,which you don't, you know, you
don't think about it.
It's like, oh, maybe you'vealways dreamed of being like.
(32:43):
don't know, this is, this justrandomly came to me, but like,
you always wanna be a Zumbainstructor or something and
like, you're not doing it.
Okay.
Well maybe through that it'slike how you feel about your
body and how you reflect that inother people and how you can,
you know, like find that piecewithin.
So I just wanted to do thatlittle side note is it's, it is
(33:03):
seemingly not strange to workthis program as much as you need
it and pull pieces of it in youreveryday life so that you don't
have to go through a 12 stepprogram essentially every time
you need a connect with self.
It's like designed for you touse those, the little pieces to,
to build on and, and grow.
Jen Jones Donatelli (33:25):
It's interesting that you used the
phrasing 12 step program becauseJulia Cameron actually rooted
the book and 12 stepmethodology.
Vicki (33:34):
Remember reading that.
Jen Jones Donatelli (33:35):
yeah.
And so she's a recoveringalcoholic and so she calls the
process of the artist's waycreative recovery.
So you're not necessarilyrecovering from addiction,
you're recovering from beingdisconnected to your creative
self.
And so there's actually a reallyintentional reason that the book
is 12,
Vicki (33:51):
I love that.
Jen Jones Donatelli (33:53):
you know, modules or chapters and there's
so much more to it.
But it is, the artist way doeshave so many pieces and parts,
and so I always like to saylike, take what serves you and
leave the rest because there'sso much there and chances are
you can really benefit, youknow, from some of it.
So.
Vicki (34:08):
Yeah.
And you call it like a creativechiropractor.
That's kind of like whatcreative groove is.
So break that down, like whatwould it mean for someone to go
through a program and what areyour, your client's experience
to get back into creativealignment?
Jen Jones Donatelli (34:26):
Yeah.
Well, so the Artist's Wayexperience that I've designed,
it's a, it's a 12 week class orcohort, so to speak, and I kind
of consider the artist's way,like the textbook of the class
because I bring in a lot of mycoaching, training and other
methodologies.
Like I show different TED talksand like we talk about other
books and, you know.
(34:46):
Philosophies and things too.
So the artist's way isdefinitely the through line of
the experience, but
Vicki (34:51):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (34:51):
reason I call it a creative chiropractor
is we do a lot of work in theclass to like get clear on like,
what are your values?
You know, that you wanna startmaybe reclaim or start honoring
again, you know, to feel morecreative or to move on your
goals.
We do things like a Ikigaiexploration where we, you know,
learn about your Ikigai, whichis essentially your reason for
(35:12):
being.
In some of my previous cohorts,I don't do it every time anymore
because I find that sometimesthis particular exercise is
better one-on-one.
But in the past we've developed,a life purpose statement.
So like we do some pretty meatystuff that's essentially about
figuring out who you arecreatively, you know, and that's
(35:32):
why I call it a creativechiropractor because you're
realigning with.
You know, your true identity asa creative and like
rediscovering it.
So it's like getting you backinto alignment so that you can,
you know, move forward with yourcreative goals.
Vicki (35:47):
And talk
Jen Jones Donatelli (35:48):
I.
Vicki (35:48):
a little bit about the, how do I wanna phrase this?
About the conversations you havewith the non-creative person and
breaking that down from notbeing a traditional like artist,
meaning you're not a painter, adancer, a whatever, but how
(36:10):
humans are innately.
Born and built to create things.
I mean, the female body isdesigned to create and give life
that is like the truest sense ofcreation.
So talk to me about how you cantalk people out of their own
heads who say, well, I'm not anartist per in traditional sense,
and like how they can use thatprinciple in helping themselves
(36:33):
become more expressive.
Jen Jones Donatelli (36:35):
Yeah, I mean, I do think the name of the
book is a little bit of amisnomer because people see it
and they're like, I'm not reallyinterested in like being an
artist, per se.
And so I like to say it's aboutbeing an artist of your own
life.
I.
You know, and like, what doesthat look like to, you know,
paint with bold strokes in yourlife, you know?
And so you know, if people saythey're not creative, like my
ears perk up because I'm like,you have this definition of what
(36:58):
you think creative is.
And it's like, like you said,we're all innately creative and
like, there's some great quotesin the artist's way about the
fact that we are all innatelycreative.
And so I like to help peoplefigure out, like, it might just
look like, you know, where areyou most energized?
You know, how can we do more ofthat?
Or like, what hobbies, whatpassions do you wanna plug back
(37:19):
into, you know, that make youfeel more alive?
So it's really like finding yourflow in your daily life.
And if that includes like takinga water color painting class or
like writing a poem or whateverit might be, that's wonderful.
But maybe it's just like, youwanna do like dopamine dressing
and like, like telegraph yourcreativity in different ways.
(37:39):
And so we kind of just, I lookat, with each of my clients
like.
What are you dissatisfied withor like what goal is burning
inside of you, you know, thatyou need to reignite basically.
And so it is different foreveryone.
But yeah, it's just kind of likedesigning your most creative
life.
That's how I look at it.
And when you have that, when youhave that in place, then you're
(38:00):
in your creative groove.
And like, because I'mmulti-passionate, you know, my
business covers a lot ofdifferent things and so.
It all makes sense to me, but Ineeded to figure out like what
was the ecosystem, you know,what was the through line
running through everything?
And so in the last year, Ideveloped these four pillars
that I consider to be part ofyour creative groove.
(38:22):
So the four pillars arecreativity, productivity
visibility and authenticself-expression.
And I believe that when you dialin all four of those things, you
find your creative groove.
And so any coaching program Ido, any class, any workshop, any
experience, you'll really findthose outcomes reflected in it.
(38:42):
Because I think that's myspecial sauce of being able to
help people like find that Venndiagram sweet spot where tho
those things all meet.
Vicki (38:51):
Yeah.
What inspires you to do it?
Because you're, you are, you'reso passionate about this, you've
been doing it for so long.
I mean, is there like a corethat you hold onto that just
keeps you motivated to keephelping people uncover these
pieces of themselves that maybethey lost or suppressed for so
(39:12):
long?
Jen Jones Donatelli (39:13):
Yeah, I mean I really do love my work
and I'm not gonna lie, like Ifeel like I've been like really
like up about it in this wholeinterview, but it is so
difficult.
I mean, being a solopreneur,it's like you have to love it
because yes, you get to be inyour zone of genius and you get
to do what you love, but youalso have to do every other
thing.
So you have to do
Vicki (39:32):
Yeah,
Jen Jones Donatelli (39:33):
the marketing, the sales calls, you
know, all, all the things thathelp you run your business.
So like.
I am not gonna pretend it'salways like sunshine and roses
because it is like super, superhard.
But luckily I look forward toMondays.
I love what I do.
I'm always coming up with ideas.
And so and shoot, I wanna makesure I, I come back to your
(39:54):
question'cause I had something Iwanted to say around it and I
started like, going off on mytangent, so remind me what your
question actually was so that Ican come back.
Vicki (40:02):
mostly what inspires you to
Jen Jones Donatelli (40:04):
Oh
Vicki (40:05):
doing this kind of work.
Jen Jones Donatelli (40:06):
yes.
Okay.
So so yeah, I've beenself-employed 20 years and the
button of what I was sayingbefore is like, I've.
Really come back to this versionof Creative Groove only in the
last seven to eight years.
Vicki (40:21):
Mm-hmm.
Jen Jones Donatelli (40:21):
Creative Groove has become what it is
today, more in like recentyears.
And so what it is now is it'sbasically a small business, you
know, that offers coachingprograms, courses, workshops,
and community experiences aroundthe art of creative living in
these four buckets.
And the reason I love it is youknow, I love helping people tap
into their creativity.
(40:42):
And one of the reasons that CoveCoaching has been such a good
fit for me is that one of thecornerstone beliefs is that
people are naturally creative,resourceful, and whole.
And so that was kind of bakedinto the coaching model that I
was trained in, even though Icame to that coaching model very
organically and didn't likechoose it for myself
necessarily.
Vicki (41:02):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (41:02):
I ended up finding like an excellent fit
because.
I believe that too.
You know, people are naturallycreative, resourceful, and
whole.
And so I like to help peoplebelieve that for themselves and
embrace that.
And like, what does that looklike and mean if you believe
that about yourself.
And I just, I love teaching andfacilitating and you know, like
I said, I'm a, I was acheerleader, you know, I get to
(41:22):
be a professional cheerleader.
I get to be a creative championfor people and like, I love it.
So, I mean, that's what it is.
It's like I get, and likethere's a lot of different
methods of coaching out there,you know, and I, I hold my
client naturally creativeresource one whole.
So yes, I can bring inconsulting and tell you like my
experiences with book publishingor selling articles or whatever,
(41:45):
and I will help you with that.
But really I believe that youare equipped with what you need.
So I'm not going to tell youwhat you need to do.
I'm going to be there to helpyou unlock your own answers that
are already within of like thedirection you wanna be going,
and then help you like pave theway toward that, you know?
Vicki (42:01):
I love that.
What, what has been maybe one ortwo of the biggest
transformations that you've seenthrough Creative Groove, where
you are just in awe of wheresomeone started versus they
finished, or what they continueto do?
Jen Jones Donatelli (42:17):
Yeah, I mean, it's a little bit
difficult because I hold clientconfidentiality like.
It pretty highly.
And so without permission, it'skind of hard to share some
examples, but I will say in someof the more public facing
success stories so I have acouple signature programs, and
again, they fall into thosebuckets.
So like the two I'll share a fewsuccess stories from are called
(42:39):
March Radness and start yourpress.
Well, I can share some from theartist's way too.
I'll give like a little popery.
So Start Your press is basicallya two day intensive I lead where
I teach people from a journalistperspective how to get media
coverage.
And it's for like small businessowners, entrepreneurs, you know,
thought leaders subject matterexperts who want to learn like
(43:02):
how to be quoted in the pressand raise their profile.
And that has been like reallyexciting because I've been able
to help people, you know, havetheir name in print in places
like, you know, nationalGeographic and Time and like
Fast Company and you know,business Insider.
Like one of my clients actually,she is amazing.
She's a 65-year-old businesscoach
Vicki (43:22):
Okay,
Jen Jones Donatelli (43:22):
and she.
She is just like, just gettingstarted.
Like she runs two companies, shedoesn't wanna retire.
And so she and I kinda came upwith this concept that we
pitched to Business Insider fora first person essay about the
fact that she has no desire toretire and she feels like she's
just getting started.
And so her essay was publishedin Business Insider about a
month or two ago.
(43:44):
And so that was really exciting.
And so and like I've helped someof my other clients like speak
at conferences and stuff.
So we look at like, what areyour visibility goals?
And then we kind of, and, and bythe way, so I do the two day
intensives, but I also work withpeople one-on-one if they wish
around that.
Vicki (43:59):
Okay.
Jen Jones Donatelli (44:00):
so it's been really cool to help really
talented people you know, growtheir authority having more
visibility.
So that would be a couplesuccess stories there.
And then every year I dosomething called March Radness.
And I know it's already passedby the time you're listening to
this, but Vicki was actually oneof my guest experts this year.
it's actually happening,happening right now as we
Vicki (44:19):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (44:20):
record this interview.
But it's a, week long freechallenge where we use a March
Madness SPI inspired bracket tonarrow down a lot of ideas to
your next right thing.
And some of the success storiesof this have just been so
wonderful to see, because at theend of the challenge, we declare
what I call your bright idea.
And then I'm gonna check in withyou throughout the year, you
(44:41):
know, and see like, how's itgoing?
Did you do the thing?
You know?
And what's been fun is to seethe people who activated their
idea, so.
Personal and professional.
You know, people have doneeverything from decide to go
back to grad grad school, sothere's even a march Radness
baby, believe it or not.
Like someone decided that it wasthe, it was the right time for
her to start a family, you know,and she did, and she like said
(45:03):
that March Radness helped herget clear on that.
Vicki (45:05):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (45:06):
like professional stuff like, you
know, someone last year decidedthat she was going to do a short
film series based on astorytelling event that she had
started within a healthcareorganization.
And all of those short filmshave been shot now and are like
being screened and everything.
And so it's really cool towatch.
And then Annette Tack who hasdone March Redness for many
years, she's a career coach andwhat she has worked on over the
(45:29):
last few years'cause I also doone-on-one coaching off the back
of Mark Ven.
So we have worked together andher book was published this
January.
And so to be able to help peopleshepherd their ideas and see
them through to fruition, youknow, is so exciting.
And then like with the artist'sway, you know.
It's so cool to see becausesometimes people just get back
(45:49):
in touch with what they wannado.
So like there was one person whotook it and like, she bought an
RV at the end and she ended upjust like traveling all over.
And she also restarted her pastacompany that she had, had
dormant for a long time.
And so like, and like anotherwoman talked about how she
always wanted to have asculpting studio in her house
and like she ended up doing it,you know, after the artist's
(46:10):
way.
And so I wouldn't say it's, Imean, yes, there's magic in the
book, there's magic in thecoaching I bring, but really
it's just like people finallydeciding to do the things they
wanna do.
Like, I don't really like, likeposing it like I did this thing
and then they did, like, that'snot really what it is.
It's more like, I'm gonna helpyou write out a permission slip
(46:31):
for yourself to do this thingand then we're gonna figure out
how to do it together.
So it's kind of like, I'm gonnabe like the wind under your
wings, but like.
They are the people who aredoing these things in the world
and like deserve the credit forit.
So
Vicki (46:42):
Yeah.
Jen Jones Donatelli (46:43):
exciting to be part of.
Vicki (46:45):
Yeah, it is.
And I mean, that's what a truecoach is, is like, I, I, I mean,
athletes are like the easiestgo-to, but it's not like you
give, and a coach doesn't givean athlete talent or give them
like the putting in the extrahours and really honing in on
what they're great at.
You're creating a container toinspire, to give them room to
(47:05):
grow, to guide, but likeultimately you have no power
over what someone does ordoesn't decide to do.
And I think as an individual whoI have gone through different
coaching programs, I, I feellike I am always focused on some
kind of self-improvement that,that is.
That's something that took me along time to learn and to really
(47:27):
accept that no one is coming tosave me.
No one who's has the, the magicpill to tell me and, and make me
better, but.
Turning on that kind of thing inyour, in your mind and knowing
you're capable of so many thingsand you have the power to do it,
(47:48):
it's just reinforced by thepeople around you that help kind
of fan the flame, you know?
So I think that's, that's whoyou are.
Jen and I, I know since we'rekind of closing this interview
down, I'm, I want our listenersto be left with, with something
practical that they can do, andeven to feel 1% more creative or
Jen Jones Donatelli (48:10):
Mm.
Vicki (48:11):
closer to doing the thing that they said they, they wanted
to do.
Whether it's climb MountKilimanjaro or it's take a
pottery class or like whatever,but what is one practical thing
that you can leave them with tostart today?
Jen Jones Donatelli (48:28):
Well, actually I'm gonna build on
something you just said becauseI think it kind of needs to be
said.
'cause I know a lot of thepeople that listen to this, you
know, are business owners orentrepreneurs or, you know,
doing their own thing in life.
And like I think a lot of timeswe do, like one of the, one of
the women I met recently callsit getting guru.
Vicki (48:50):
Okay.
Jen Jones Donatelli (48:50):
Like we do kind of like invest in the
programs or like the courses oreverything.
And those are very valuable.
Like, I'm not gonna diminishthat at all, but I think there
comes a point where it turnsinto procrast learning and it's
like we think we need, like we,like we almost become like
addicted to like courses orlike, you know, doing all the
things.
And at some point it's kind oflike tuning inward to trust
(49:12):
yourself and believe that you dohave what it takes, you know?
And like you've put in the timeto learn, you know, you've
invested.
Like now is the time for you toactivate and implement.
Because I think a lot of times,and like, I'm actually gonna
talk about this today in MarchMadness.
So there's like a little bit of
Vicki (49:28):
great.
Jen Jones Donate (49:28):
synchronicity, but James Clear and Atomic
Habits talks about motion versusaction.
And motion is preparing to dosomething and action is doing
the thing.
And so I think, you know, ifyou're kind of like in limbo
right now, think about like, amI just staying in motion and
like what would action looklike?
(49:48):
And so I would just encourageyou, like, if you're feeling a
little stagnant or stuck to likeone, like ask yourself like, am
I kind of believing that I needall these external things to be
able to do the thing I wanna do?
Or have I already kind of donethat and I'm, I'm more ready
than I might think.
So just do like a little bit ofinventory of like, how am I
(50:11):
gonna trust myself to like, torun with this?
You know?
And the, and I, I, I hope thatthe answer will be yes,
Vicki (50:18):
Yeah.
And that there's resources alongthe way to help you get there if
you're not quite there.
So
Jen Jones Donatelli (50:23):
yes.
I.
Vicki (50:25):
All of your contact information in the episode
notes, how to join CreativeGroove, how to take advantage of
all the programs that Jen runsthroughout the year.
She does a lot of freeprogramming too, so if you wanna
dip your toe and just kind oflearn what all this is all about
it's a great way to connect withCreative Groove and with Jen
Jones Donatelli.
(50:46):
So I'm so happy that we wereable to make this work and love
having you as a guest
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