WAKE UP CALL #6 w/Thai Rivera

We’re joined for this episode by the absolute greatest LGBT comedian IN THE WORLD…the one and only THAI RIVERA! We start out recapping how Josh’s Food Network show was just cancelled again. As woke as the Super Bowl was, we had a hard time not falling asleep. Josh is cancelled for being fat and making fun of other fats. We review how Thai is Savage AF, if you’re in the know.There’s a lot of comedy and working in video store talk in this one, so enjoy!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Yeah, but I'm not really toLike, you know, working out new

(00:26):
material is hard because hardly any openmics are going, so you almost have
to just slip it in with yourregular set, you can, you know,
well that's yeah, that's that's howI've generally done it. And or
you could do what I do,where you just you know, test new
jokes on Twitter and see how thatgoes for you. I see you're getting

(00:46):
a lot of troubles yet I seea lot of people get angry. Yeah,
well it's happened again today. Idon't know if you saw. I
had a couple of singers during theSuper Bowl yesterday, and now people are
trying to cancel my Food Network showagain. What what which has been to
cancel your Food Network every goddamn weekthey did? It's that That's the thing.
It's funny is people go other comicswill be well, dude, just

(01:10):
take it out of your bio,and I go, no, I leave
it in on purpose so that yourealize that A these people aren't fans of
either me or the Food Network becausethe show hasn't been on the air for
three years, and B they don'teven take the time to look up the
specifics of who they're trying to cancel. They literally just see a joke they
don't like and they go, let'stake everything away from this person. You

(01:34):
know, Yeah, I always laughwhen I see that, when they're like
at Food Network, do you seewho you have? Who is your host?
Yeah? Everyone got mad at mebecause I'll show you. So,
I don't know. Did you watchthe Super Bowl yesterday? Yes? I
did? What did you think of? What? Just let me get your
initial tiravera hot take on the toneof the commercials the whole day, because

(01:57):
I'm sure you have some thoughts.Well, you know, I I tried
to watch, like, I triedto enjoy it, but I just thought
everything was kind of boring, likethey're like, you know when I came
to not only because the game wasboring. That's why, you know,
that was most anti climatic super Bowlever as far as I go, I
was just like, okay, wellwe know who's winning this. It was

(02:21):
just like watching Tom Brady's slow fuckanother team to death for three hours,
which was you know, it's notexciting. Yeah, so that wasn't exciting.
Then the commercials for me were prettyboring and it seemed like everything was
a grab diversity in a weird way. So yeah, annoying. The weekend's
halftime show was very, very boring, and I was like, I don't

(02:45):
know what. I believe the rightword for it is vanilla as fuck.
Yeah for sure, I mean,and I don't know, because you know,
I this is one thing that goton my nerves because I posted during
the Super Bowl, I like,right after the half time, Joe I
posted whatever they paid for that weekendperformance? They paid too much? Yeah,

(03:06):
And so then a bunch of peoplestart flooding me with they don't actually
pay for the super Bowl performances,and he paid seven million of his own
money, And I was like,yeah, well my statement stands. Then
he paid too much for that performancebecause seven million dollars. What did he
spend seven million dollars on? Itwas lights and a choir, Yeah,

(03:28):
a choir wearing jock straps on theirfucking heads of all things. Yeah,
he's paying way too If he paidseven million dollars for anything to do with
that performance, he is an idiot, I don't think. I mean,
I know people have said that aboutthe Super Bowl performances, or they say
that the artists do them for freebecause the amount of money they make off
streams and album sales and stuff fromthe exposure of the performance. But I

(03:53):
gotta be honest, I don't thinkthat that happened this year because could you
fucking imagine the backlash if, ifever, any white artist had ever been
paid for doing the Super Bowl andthey were like, Weekend, do this
for free, and then he talkedto somebody about it. I don't know.
I don't believe that they give themnothing. I think they give them
something. But this idea that likeartists actually pay to perform on anything,

(04:17):
I mean, in reality, Iguess that makes sense because that's how you
end up with the Weekend of youknow, compared to all the other people
that they could have had. Butyou know, it's just like, I
don't see artists performing for free,and we deal with that all the time
as comedians, where people are like, no, the exposure, and it
doesn't take you very long to belike, fuck exposure, I'll get paid.

(04:42):
Yeah. Well, when you considerthe performers they've had in the past,
I very seriously doubt those people werepaying for their own performances. Shakira
and j Low were already established rightYeah, these aren't up and comers trying
to get on tour with something likethese are real big names. They don't
need the exposure. If anything,they're bringing an audience to the entire super
Bowl that otherwise may not even watchit. Well, yeah, you're telling

(05:05):
me Beyonce didn't get paid the yearthat she did it, right, and
I Donna and I thought I rememberedhearing Beyonce got paid something like twenty five
million just for that one performance forthat night. Yeah, that goes all
the way back to Madonna. Onceyou have the big scandal over the like
a prayer commercial, you know,I mean, like, there's no way

(05:27):
that they're paying more for the commercialsthan they're paying for the halftime show.
That's the way I see it.There's no way the league might the League
might not pay it. But PEPSI, because it's their halftime show that they
sponsor, they might be the onesthat pay for the deal. Who knows,
But I don't think. I don'tthink Beyonce was like, sure,
I'll do the super Bowl for free, Like I really don't think that ever
happened. Yeah, no, that'snot. But the thing that everybody got

(05:51):
mad at before today was. Youknow, I'll generally go on when there's
like a major event or something,and I'll start, you know, if
I think something funny, I'll starttweeting it and and lo and behold this
episode or this episode? What amI talking about? This commercial came up?
So if you didn't see this,I thought it was pretty funny.
But but just watch this as acomedian and tell me that you don't start

(06:15):
writing a million jokes in your headas you see this. Sad? This
is sad? Who are you?I'm your fairy godmo? And that is
a hot mess. I don't knowwhat to do with any of this stuff.
I got half an onion, anautocho. What even is an auto?
No one knows. Just move overand watch the wings. Now here's
the Hellman's magic creamy dreamy. Ohyeah, that's normal. What else can

(06:43):
you do? Absolutely nothing? Allright? So my favorite part of this
tie right after bat is first ofall, it's a white lady teaching a
black person about mayonnaise, which isfucking hilarious to me. It's the whitest
goddamn thing you could possibly have.But then it's like to have to be

(07:03):
like to have a brand endorsement.When you're Amy Schumer and the entire world
calls you fat, and their mayonnaisecalls up and you go, yep,
that's my shit. It's like,you know there are gonna be jokes on
Twitter the next day, right ofcourse. Yeah, So I being the
you know, very kind and equalopportunity joke writer that I try to be,

(07:28):
tweeted this. Here we go.This is what I tweeted in preparation
for her role in today's Super Bowlad method actor Amy Schumer ain't nothing but
Best Foods Mayonnaise for the last thirtyyears, which to me is like it
reads like a weekend update headline,right like, obviously I'm making a joke
about the commercial. So the wholenight it goes like my fans like it,

(07:50):
people are laughing, no problems.This morning, I wake up and
buy it was actually morning. Iactually woke up at like nine this morning
and there were like twenty responses,twenty ats again, people tagging Food Network
like is this what you call ahost of a show on your network?

(08:11):
How dare you let this sexism fly? And I was like sexism, I'm
making fun of a celebrity who's doinga fucking mayonnaise commercial. And by the
way, I would have made thesame joke if Bert Kreischer had done the
mayonnaise commercial as I did, becauseAmy Schumer did the mayonnaise commercial, like,
and if I would have done it, you and every other comedian would

(08:33):
have made the same fat joke aboutme chugging mayonnaise. Right, It's like
comedians aren't even the people to getoutraged at this ship. And I'm sure
even if she read it, shelaughed it off and went on about her
day. Yeah, why, well, how is it sexist? Though?
I'm not getting how that sexist otherthan the fact that she's a woman and
I'm a dude. Yeah, that'sit makes no sense. People are reaching

(08:56):
and like that part. I thinkit's you notice online. I don't know
what the responses have been because Ihaven't seen it yet, but it really
seems like online is getting tired ofthat, and those people are getting shut
down faster and faster. Now,well, you're seeing more and more where
Like whenever they went down with methree years ago, when they originally came

(09:16):
from my show that had already beenoff the air for six months, there
wasn't a lot of people going backat those people, and now today it
didn't take along. It's not likeI have some massive fan base. I'm
a very small fan base, butdedicated. And now they're immediately going in
and just railing against these people thatare, you know, at Food Network

(09:39):
commenting calling it race. I mean, there are people that are calling it
racist. It's like, what thefuck? The commercial itself might be racist,
but my jokes certainly wasn't racist.I mean, it's just wild to
me the levels that people go wherethey literally think they can just say this
is sexist if you're a man,or it's racist if you're white, which

(10:00):
is one of the things that Ithink everybody loves about you is a comic,
is that people can't use those thingsagainst you, right, Like you
are one of those guys who breaksthe mold of people going like, well
you, if you were a personof color, you wouldn't think that you're
like wrong, or they're like ifyou remember the LGBTQ community wrong, right,
It's like just like they don't getthose crutches with you, And I

(10:24):
have to imagine it makes being acomic even more fun in today's time with
all this craziness. Yeah, well, I ask people all the time,
you know, like when they comeafter me, I'm like, do you
think this is my white privilege speakingright now? Right right? I Mean,
it's so crazy to me. Theother thing, too, is like
this idea that your opinions or yourperspective has to be monolithic based off of

(10:48):
the identity boxes that we all checkis boring, and it also would make
for really shitty art. Like Ithink the only reason I'm funnier entertaining is
because I don't have normal white guyopinions about things, because I don't really
have a traditional white guy upbringing.So like I I've always thought that that's

(11:09):
what makes me not a boring comedian, the fact that I have, you
know, ideas and perspectives that nobodywould expect and coming up doing like all
black comedy clubs and nightclubs and stuff. That's why I would get booked was
because I have this face, butI know more about cultures that people would
never expect, and so that makesfor an interesting actor, makes for a

(11:31):
funny comic. And this idea nowthat like people aren't allowed to make jokes
outside of the box that people paintthem in, is going to make for
really shitty, boring comedy. Yeah. Well, the idea that all of
our jokes are our opinions is ridiculousto me, because, yeah, that's
a really good point, clearly outsideof my actual opinion. It just happened

(11:52):
to be a funny idea that Ihad. Sure, So it's not necessarily
like I want to stand like standbehind Yeah, I stand the joke.
I stand behind the fact that Imake the joke, and I had the
right to make the joke, right, I don't necessarily stand behind the opinion
that's expressed in the joke. Theother thing I think is great about your
tie is that you don't take responsibilityfor people laughing for the wrong reasons,

(12:15):
which I've never done either. Butit's interesting how some people will try to
say, like, we'll tie you, like your trans joke is transphobic,
and people that are actually transphobic,we laughing for the wrong reasons, and
you're very quick to be like,yeah, that's not my fucking problem.
Yeah. And I also like whenit comes to that and people really push
that, like when they pushed withKevin Hart or Tracy Morgan, the you

(12:39):
know, like this is gonna reinforcehomophobic parents to use their kids. And
I just always think those people aren'tthe people that are going to comedy shows.
No, no, not at all, not at all. They're too
busy at home beating and molesting theirkids. I mean, they don't have
the time for jokes, exactly,not taking time now to go to a

(13:01):
comedy show. And like, oh, so I am doing this the right
way, Yeah I am. Youknow, in the middle of beating the
fuck out of my children today,I stopped and thought maybe I should go
to a comedy club and make sureI'm on the right path. And now
that I'm here and this white manis joking about the oppressions of the blacks,
I understand I am in the rightand I will go back to my
home and continue abusing my children.I mean, it's it is a pretty

(13:24):
fucking crazy premise when you pitch itlike that, this idea that people are
getting validation for their shitty opinions fromcomedians, and in reality, people probably
the people that probably accuse you ofbeing problematic that way or me of that,
they probably validate their their shitty opinionsby shitty celebrities or shitty comedians who

(13:46):
agree with them. So in away, it's like they're concerned about something
that isn't a concern for most peoplethat are at comedy clubs, but is
a concern based off the fact thatthey are way too easily influence by celebrities
and you know, people in themedia or whatever. Yeah, well that
definitely is what's going on with alot of these people. They are the

(14:09):
ones that are reinforced by celebrities,So that's probably what it is. It's
projection, you know. They're like, well, if I'm if I'm being
influenced, and I'm sure everybody elseis being influenced. Yeah, yeah,
it's it's it's wild. That's awild thing to me. And this other
thing too that I find happens alot is people on the internet like to
like based off of what they perceiveabout you on like based on a joke

(14:33):
you make, or or maybe astrong opinion that you have, because you
have a lot of strong opinions aswell. It's amazing how people will like
assign something that they think you believeto you or a position that they think
you hold, and then they'll alreadybegin to like start setting up the strong
man and fighting that before you've evereven entered that, and you went into

(14:54):
that with the whole Shang and BlackPedro podcast thing that you have that happened
last week, which was like youryour recent internet drama. Yeah, well
that one kind of I got blindsidedon that one because I never have liked
Shan's comedy. That's just what itis. I would have kept that to

(15:15):
myself though, if it hadn't gottenso heated, or if they hadn't been
so stupid about the way the waythey did everything, but I did.
It felt like an ambush out ofthe gate. And it's like I thought,
like right off the bat, thefact that you stuck your foot in
the ground and stayed and we're like, fuck you, I'm not gonna let
you put words in my mouth wasmore than any other person would have done.

(15:37):
Because ninety percent of other comedians,no matter how opinionated or up for
debate they are, they would havejust like logged off. They would have
just clicked out of the fucking roomwhen it started in that contentious place.
Yeah, well, you know,you already wasted part of my night,
So now we're going to do thisright exactly his ass booking, Yeah exactly.

(15:58):
Yeah, I cleared my schedule forthis and if it's a fight you
want, it's a fight, you'llfucking get right exactly, Yeah, I
was, and so at that pointit was just like I don't care.
And I even mentioned on the commentary, you know, there was a point
where I know I got unproductive inthe conversation, but I also was like,
yeah, well, if we're justgonna have a fucking shit fist,
then that's what's going to happen.Well. And the thing I hate is

(16:22):
when people, when people try topretend like they're giving you a fair opportunity
to represent your opinions, and thenthey'll start out with like, okay,
so let me let me give youthese four questions we ask everybody. Number
One, you're a racist and youthink Trump's the shit, right, and
you're just like, that's not anopen ended question at all, Like it's
a yes or no question. It'slike, yeah, but it's a yes

(16:44):
or no question that puts me ina box that I don't belong in,
and that you're trying to have.It's like, it's amazing to me that
you would think anybody would be sofucking stupid or so much of a pussy
that they would let you put thosekind of words in their as a as
a starting point for any kind ofproductive political discussion. Yeah, and then

(17:04):
after they keep trying to drive thatnarrative at the end when I log up
there like talking like I'm the toxicone, you know, they're like,
right, I didn't know he wasgoing to be like that, And I
was like, oh, he couldn'teven handle some some intellectual discussion. And
it's like, yeah, that's notwhat this was from the get and that
wasn't your fault. Definitely not likethat's the thing. It definitely was not

(17:26):
that. And I one hundred percentbecause I wouldn't have gone on if I
know, if I had known thatthey were just going to try to argue
with me, I really was thinkingwe were just going to have a conversation.
And I was excited about having thatconversation because when it comes to you
know, I didn't know about blackPedro, but when it comes to Shang,
he's a black man, and Ithought that we could have, you

(17:48):
know, as people of color,we could have a good conversation about that
here and of some common ground,right, you would think there would be
some common ground where you could youknow, find some middle ground or some
places you agree on, or oreven just like respectfully agree to disagree.
Yeah, and even the things thatI said, if you notice, it's
almost like shang kind of outrage oryou know, and he would just be

(18:11):
like wow, wow, And Iwas like, what are you doing?
What do you mean? Wow?Wasn't it weird? That's that kind of
pro clutching to me, feels likethis new passive aggressive form of gaslighting where
if people don't have an intellectual retortfor what you're what point you're making,
they're just like, wow, Ican't even believe you would fucking think that.
And you're just like, well,that doesn't that's not an argument to

(18:32):
my opinion. Yeah, And theywere trying so hard to like push me
into that, like where I wouldbe in support of the insurrection, you
know, or the storming of thecapital that when Black pedro. There was
a point where he mentioned something aboutthat, and then I was I was

(18:55):
not even talking about that. WhatI was talking about was I was just
saying that we should hold all ofall politicians accountable. And then I was
like, we should forgive none ofthem. I mean, he was like,
forgive none of them? What doesthat mean? And it's like,
well, what do you think I'msaying here, do you Because I'm not
saying we should storm them the capital. I'm not saying anybody should die.
I'm just saying we should hold themaccountable. Like, how's that hard for

(19:17):
you to understand? Hold them accountable? Yeah? Well, And the other
thing that bothered me too is like, you know, this is what really
pisses me off about the other side. And really, I won't say it's
really left or right, but peoplethat think the the government makes should make
all the decisions for us, whetheryou're right or left. I think that's

(19:38):
a growing contingent of people. Andyou can't, on one hand, look
at BLM protests and say the governmentneeds to be held accountable by people that
are unhappy with the country that theylive in, and then look at the
fucking insurrection, by the way,a bunch of fucking nerds, you know,
running inside the velvet ropes taking fuckingselfies. Can't look at that and

(20:00):
then not say that the government isalso equally responsible for letting down that group
of citizens, whatever it may be. And if, by the way,
if the government, like I comeout of the business world for many years
where my bosses used to say,like, perception is the rule, right,
So like if I thought I wasthe best boss, didn't matter if
my people thought I was a shittyboss. And if the people that worked

(20:23):
for me thought I was a shittyboss and I didn't fix it or address
that perception, I have to dealwith the consequences of that. Right,
So if a huge percentage of thepopulation thinks that the election was there was
some fuckery, right, why notwhy not go through the process of going
will publicize an investigation, will gointo it. Will because seventy five million

(20:48):
Americans or whatever that number of Americansare that voted the other way, that
drove through the country and never sawa Biden sign and never hurt anybody protests
Like, if you want me tobelieve that most of America hated Trump enough
to vote for the other guy,I can kind of believe that that might
be possible because they spent the lastsix years brewing a hate campaign against Trump

(21:11):
as a candidate and then as apresident. However, if the perception by
that many people is so much tothe point where they would storm the capital
thinking the government is lying to them, maybe don't just write them off as
conspiracy theorists. Maybe you have aresponsibility to fucking show them some work instead
of just saying, well, thejudges throughout the cases, well, people

(21:32):
can buy judges. Judges have politicalaffiliations as well. It's like, if
you want me to just cover myeyes and go, okay, government,
whatever you tell us, I mean, that's not me doing my job as
a citizen. Right, Well,that's what I was saying. We should
just look into it. I don'tknow why we can't, Like, why
is that considered so ridiculous, especiallywhen we just spent forty years hearing about

(21:53):
Russian collusion that didn't happen, rightexactly. So if we're willing to appease
that, and we're willing to lookat that, then why wouldn't we have
a responsibility to half of the countrywho feel that the election was not up
to snuff, was not legit,And this idea that because the news said
so, or the media said so, or Twitter and Facebook are saying so,

(22:17):
is not enough. It's not enoughwhen you know, like Twitter can
come out and go this tweet claims, you know, an election conspiracy that
we fact checked and it's not real, and then literally, somebody right below
that post from Twitter will go here'swhere the fact checker is paid for by
this government. Pack Here's where Twitteris paid for by this government. It's

(22:38):
just like when you start connecting thedots of all the money. It's like,
no, no, no, no, no, you can't just tell
me that some clear political activists,a political action committee that is in the
pocketbooks of all of these left wingpoliticians that benefit from this potentially happening,
is a neutral, third party factchecker. It's like this, it's weird

(23:02):
because like for the left who lovesto call everything gaslighting these days, you're
literally gaslighting half the population while there'splenty of fucking proof from smart young people
on the Internet that there's something afootright, there's something there. I mean,
when a kid like Austin Fletcher,I don't know if you know him,
he does the Fleckis Talks videos,very funny conservative dude on Twitter,

(23:25):
does a lot of like man onthe Street stuff on YouTube. He went
through like the Michigan Registry and showedall of these ballots like they look them
up, one by one, tenthousand of them of ballots that were mailed
out to deceased people filled out andreturned and like literally check them one for

(23:47):
one, and the news would comeout at the New York Times like tried
to refute his YouTube video and say, well, a lot of people have
the same names, and he goes, really, do a lot of people
have the same names, same addresses, same day of birth, same day
to death, and they all voted. It's just like, at some point
you can't just call everybody that disagreeswith you like stupid rednecks. There are

(24:11):
a lot of smart people on thatside of the aisle that are doing homework
and showing their work and proving there'ssomething going on that's not up to snuff.
Yeah, well you also can't callit legitimately looking into things when it's
happening to the right, but thenwhen it's happening to the left, suddenly
it becomes undermining democracy, right,or it's a conspiracy theory. Yeah,

(24:34):
It's That's one thing that I'm sotired of the word the word conspiracy theory.
Like conspiracy theory. It's like,no, not everything you don't agree
with, there's a conspiracy theory,right sometimes, But you know, also
YouTube has taken down conspiracy theories.So if they're able to effectively brand anything

(24:56):
a conspiracy theory, then it canget out well. And the thing that's
so crazy to me is like,do we forget I mean, you and
I are old enough to remember nineteenyears ago or I'm sorry, now,
twenty one years ago. The Democratsbelieve that an election was rigged against them
in Florida. They literally believed thatGeorge Bush worked with his brother who was

(25:18):
the governor of Florida at the time, to fuck the election in favor of,
you know, the Republican Party,and a lot of people believed to
this day that they stole that election, which at the time I believed was
probably real. Like I was like, of course they the dudes, brothers
the governor. I don't have togo very far to draw the conclusion that

(25:40):
they rigged Florida. Of course,not I but we were also all on
my space at that time because verytrue known for research, you know,
yeah, yeah it was. Butit was sort of like, well,
this sort of makes sense, right, they're brothers that would that would totally
that passes the smell check least.And then you know, and then people

(26:03):
wanted to blame nine to eleven onthat rigged election. Like people forget that
that was a big narrative when nineto eleven happened, the narrative at the
time by many media outlets that wereanti George Bush and before Trump, by
the way, George W. Bushwas hitler according to everybody in the meeting,
right, But there was this hugenarrative that if the Middle East didn't

(26:26):
want to get back at w becauseof what his father had done during Desert
Storm and I ran Contra and allof these other things, that we wouldn't
have been a target. And sobecause the rights stole an election, we
got a terrorist attack. So it'slike that was like regular news discussion in
two thousand and one. And Iremember because nine to eleven happened right after

(26:48):
I graduated high school, and soI was just home most mornings at worked
nights at a video store. Andthis is long before I ever started doing
stand up, and so I wouldbe like watching news and stuff in the
morning, and I don't ever rememberanybody coming out and going, WHOA hold
up with the conspiracy theories? CNN. Yeah, I worked at a video

(27:11):
store when I was in high school. I work in a video store,
which one which one did you workin it was a little independent way.
Yeah, I worked. I workedfor Hollywood Video. I worked at the
small town one I grew up.I grew up. I grew up in
Philly and then moved to Minnesota,like sophomore year of high school and then
senior year of high school, Igot a job working at a Hollywood video

(27:34):
in my little town in Minnesota,and then like skipped college, just went
stayed working there full time, becamean assistant manager, a manager, a
training manager, district manager, andlike, I had a pretty good job
at twenty one that most of myfriends coming out of college couldn't get a
job paying nearly what I was making. So you know that it reminds me

(27:55):
of another thing I was going toask you about that people in your comments
have been keen to point out Ithink you have sort of the same thing
that chapter asked when people with degreestry to pretend like that automatically makes them
smarter than you. You know,and people love in the comments. The
thing I love is everyone's like,so this guy went to Princeton. Huh
doesn't doesn't necessarily translate? Yeah,well, I don't know what happened with

(28:22):
that. I don't know if thatwas like if they were running a special
ed program at Princeton, but alsolike Princeton is like the fucking community college
of the IVY Leagues. I mean, like Princeton might have been impressive in
the eighties, but Princeton is theredheaded stepchild of the Ivy League. Yeah.
I don't know why. But luckilythough, I could tell Pedro wanted

(28:47):
to jump off that right away.Shang was trying to push that. I
think Shang is still impressed by Princeton, and I personally am not impressed by
any school. I'm just like,well, I skipped college, and I
skipped all that day, and youand I both know, at least even
in the world of comedy and entertainment, dozens and dozens of people with very

(29:07):
impressive degrees who have very unimpressive liferesumes. Yeah. I ended up finding
out later on another video because Idid a little bit of research after I
should have done my research before.But Pedro is actually a server, So
okay, nothing against servers, butI just don't understand why you would go
to Princeton to become a server rightwell, or by the way, if

(29:30):
you know, if you had goneto Princeton, maybe don't flex it in
discussion if you are a server,right, It's like, that's the thing.
I don't ever claim any credentials thatmake me smarter or better than anybody.
If I'm bringing up something i've done, it's only because I think it's
relevant to what we're talking about.Like, if we're having a business conversation,
I might bring up the fact thatI have a business background. We're

(29:52):
talking about comedy, I might talkabout how many years I've been a comedian.
But it's like this site idea thatlike something you've done makes you a
certified authority on a subject is insane. It's like, so when you went
to Princeton, did you major inpolitical science? Because this is a political
discussion. If you went to fuckingclown college, that doesn't mean that your

(30:15):
clown college degree makes you a betterauthority on nutrition at McDonald's. Yeah,
and then when you talk about doingdifferent things, it's like you also have
to go into what exactly it isthat you've done. You know, Like
there's people that I know that cansay that they have legitimately been doing comedy
for ten years, but they've justbeen doing open mics. So it's like

(30:37):
you're not and this is nothing againstopen micers, but you're not really doing
comedy at that point, you know. It's it's just to me there,
like you have to go into whatit is that your experience is rather than
just like the general like, ohI do this. It's like okay,
well, you know, I meanlike I do a lot of roadwork.

(30:57):
That's what I do. And particular, so me trying to speak on what
say Bill Burr gave Chappelle's experiences whenthey're on the road, I'd be like,
yeah, I don't really know whatthat is. That's something that's different
from what I do. I'm notdoing you know, arena stadiums and theaters.
Yeah. I can't remember how itcame up, but I think I

(31:17):
think one of them said something likeyou doing redneck clubs and almost did it
as like a backhanded compliment, asif to say, like, do it
predominantly being a club comedian is somesort of slight and it's like you know
that, And I think your retortwas like yees. The truest form of
the art, like doing it ina club is the most pure form of
stand up and even comics that doArenas would tell you that's why they work

(31:41):
out in clubs for a year beforethey do stadiums and shoot a special is
because that's the real litmus test.Yeah, And when I was working with
Gabriel Glaciers and even part of thetime that I was working with Joe Kuoy,
I was doing the big rooms becausethat's what they do, you know,
like we were doing like with GabrielIglesias especially, like that was pretty

(32:05):
much all arenas when I did that, And it's not the same as doing
regular stand up. You're completely disconnectedand it's more of a performance where for
me, stand up is a littlebit of crowd work, a little bit
of having to deal with that intimatesetting. So you know, I've always
I've always found that like large rooms, and I've only ever done like big

(32:27):
theaters a couple of times, LikeI've done a couple two thousand seeders,
three thousand seeders, But the timesI've done them, I always felt like
doing bar shows was better training fortheaters or big rooms than necessarily clubs.
And I did a lot of barshows when I first started doing the road,
like a year into doing comedy,I was doing all like shitty one

(32:51):
night or bar shows in the middleof nowhere, right, and that you
kind of learned like so much ofit is like energy and performance and it's
not even about like being clever ortiming or writing. And so when I
moved to la in two thousand andnine, I was three years in as
a comedian and I started doing clubs. And I never really did clubs in

(33:12):
Minnesota. When I started, like, there were a couple of clubs I
would hit the open mics at,but I did maybe I hosted a couple
of weekends or something, nothing major. I might have featured in some clubs.
But when I came out here andstarted doing clubs, it's like,
oh fuck, my writing is notsharp enough because they're actually waiting for the
material for the what's clever. It'snot just like sounds and emotion and energy

(33:37):
and like you know, a barshow or even a theater, if you
put the right emphasis in, youcan get people laughing and get it moving,
and you don't necessarily have the mostyou don't have to have the most
crisp material, and you also don'tfeel that pressure because you're not getting that
instant silence, instant laugh It's likewaves of sound waves of stuff going on,

(33:57):
and you kind of just have tobe in the zone and do your
thing regardless of what kind of instantfeedback you're getting from the audience. I
mean, do you find it tobe that way? Yeah? Well,
yeah. The thing is when youdo like theaters and big rooms, you
do have to wait for everything becauseit's like everything moves towards the back of
the room. And it's funny howthat works, because you would think sound

(34:21):
is sound no matter where you're at, right, But it's just a difference.
And the bar shows to me,really, bar shows, in my
opinion, prepare you for everything todo with stand up, yeah, because
you know when you go to theclubs, like you were mentioning, Yeah,
you have to get material and stufflike that, and you really have
to work on that. It's notthe same as doing a bar show and

(34:43):
that you can rely on energy andjust making sounds and stuff. But it
teaches you how to get their attention. So if you're a five in a
bar show, you'll be a tenin a comedy club. Yeah. Maybe,
I guess it depends on the barshow and the club. I mean
I always out like early on mandoing like doing black nightclubs was the ultimate

(35:04):
litmus test because if you could geta joke to work there, especially like
in a club where there's other shipgoing on, where there's like people dancing
in a room next door, orthere's like a pool table in the room
next door, or a fucking you'reon a riverboat casino and people are like,
I won this show's over. Iwant to go get drunk and play
craps. Like there's a lot ofother distractions you're fighting in the bar show

(35:29):
environment that you just aren't really fightingin a comedy club. Well, black
and Latino rooms will make sure thatyou stay present. That's the thing with
Black and Latino rooms. They don'twant you to tune out like with a
regular time. They will not letyou be on autopilot at all. Yeah,
that's the thing with the regular comedyclub. Or if you're in a
quote unquote white room, you'll beable to sometimes just phone it in.

(35:52):
Yes, with black and Latino rooms, you can start to phone it in.
They'll start talking to each other.Suddenly you won't be the center of
attention anymore. It'll be like,okay, we're doing this guy out.
Yeah. Yeah, And I've hadI've had sets in rooms like that where
that happens, where it's like youare being ignored, and some of it,
like some of that when I firststarted was because I was being too

(36:16):
safe or I was being afraid,and I was like not coming out prepared
to punch people in the mouth.And the crazy thing is like the more
offensive or more edgy I would openin those rooms, the better I would
always do, because immediately I grabbedthe respect of the audience and they would
be like, oh, he's definitelynot afraid, and then let's see what

(36:37):
he has to say. So you'dobviously have to follow it up with really
funny shit. But I would openwith my my most like attention grabbing joke,
like right out of the gates,and it could be something offensive,
it could be something. And thenwhen I came over to doing more mainstream
clubs, when I moved to LA, I did it the same way,

(36:58):
and people would, you know,they're gasps or people would be like taking
it back right away because they're they'reused to like a little bit of lubrication
before you get into your you know, most punch them in the mouth kind
of shit, and I don't knowthat like getting over the fear of doing
that and then getting good at itmakes that the only way I ever want
to do comedy. Now. Yeah, you know, Hollywood Improv is a

(37:21):
room that I, like, youknow, learned to do really well in.
But the first time I did it, because I was so used to
that having to grab their attention stylewith Hollywood Improv, I was just too
much for them. They I usedto. I used to do Refried like
once every three or four months whenI first moved here in two thousand and
nine. And that was because Idid that that Rudy Was it Rudy?

(37:45):
They used to? But who wasthe guy used to book that chard No,
Richard Richard hosted. It was hisshow. But who was this little
short guy who booked it. Idon't remember that guy's name. I know
you're yeah, yeah with the glassesARKive glass is yeah. But he saw
me do a set in at theImprov. Like right after I moved there,

(38:05):
I had a friend put me upon a show and he was like,
dude, you smack people in themouth. He's like, I'll put
you on Refried and you'll do reallywell. And those are some of my
most fun shows. But I alsohad. I think my most memorable bomb
was a refried Friday as well inthe in that main room there, because
I hit him in the mouth withsomething that the audience did not like it,
and it went over like a fuckinglead balloon and it was just a

(38:29):
graveyard for the next eight or nineminutes. Oh yeah, let's you turn
an ethnic audience on you. Theyoh yeah, yeah, not very forgiving.
You know, light audience are mainstreamaudience you can win back over and
bats They're like no, yeah,yeah, And it's sort of like you
sort of learned very quickly, like, oh, I fucking and I knew

(38:52):
what it was, and I knew. Part of the reason that I let
it get to me as well wasbecause I knew that I fucked up the
entrance of the joke and I putlike, I put the second line in
place of the first line, andwithout it, it reads like a completely
different bit. And people all thetime go, oh, well, the
audience doesn't know that. You're theonly one who knows that. But it's
like, no, but I knowit, and they know it because they

(39:15):
needed that first line that I skippedor else the joke feels very different.
And I completely like I went inthinking too confidently and fucked up the opening
part of that bit and it completelywent south on me, and I was
like, oh, yeah, thisis I have pissed off the Latinos.
And then the only thing I gotthe group back with at the end of

(39:37):
my set as I was like,man, if I'm banned from these taco
trucks, I'm gonna have a realfucking hard time out here in Los Angeles.
And that got a couple of likegraceful chuckles at the end where they
were like, Okay, like heknows, he knows he stepped in shit,
and we'll let him get off witha little bit of face. Right.
Yeah. It's the worst when youdo that because then you know,
because when you mess up in thebeginning like that, you know you're just

(40:01):
in for it for the rest ofyour set. Yeah, they're gonna it's
like, dude, based on missingthat one line, they think I'm this
guy and I'm not trying to bethis guy, you know what I mean?
Like it was the that was thatwas one of the more brutal night.
And then it was his name wasmanny Man. Yeah, yeah,

(40:22):
yeah, uh, And I rememberI came off and Manny was like,
he literally didn't even pull punch ashe goes. I think it was him
and Richard were both like, itwas was not your night tonight. I
was like, no, it wasn't, my friends, No, it wasn't.
But yeah, and I did thatshow. I remember Cocino's show in
uh in Lo s was it LosAlamitos? Yeah, down at the starting

(40:45):
gate. I used to do thatone pretty regularly, which was a pretty
mixed room. I always like mixedrooms more because you can kind of play
sides against each other. I wassfeel like if a room, especially if
a room gets too white white peopleare too in love with their own fucking
opinions in a comedy club, it'salmost like they look around at each other
and they're like, what did youthink of that? I'll tell you what
I think of that. It's likeit's just I used to say, I

(41:07):
feel like a white audience is alwayswaiting to hold up scorecards after every joke,
whereas I feel like mixed audiences,you know, Latino audiences, black
audiences are there to truly just laughand have a good time, and if
you facilitate that, they'll give youa lot of leeway. Specifically, Latino

(41:28):
audiences can be very very dumb though, how so, how do you mean
I don't they Well, it's Ithink it comes from and I've talked about
this with a lot of other Latinocomics, you know, so I know
this isn't just me that feels thisway. And some people might see this
and be like, that's where hesays, feel how you want to feel

(41:51):
like, and the other beaners havetalked about it, and you're like,
we got together as we were pickingstrawberries and we go and pick fruit from
the bar. Yeah. Yeah,it's just in our nature. Go out
and where Yeah we're going. It'spretty slice, but we still can't keep
our hands out of there. That'swhat it is. You just pick it.

(42:15):
But uh no, we've talked aboutit. And the thing is,
for some reason, when Latinos gettinga group, they want to let everybody
know that they're as dumb as possible. And I think the reason for that
is that when you're using certain wordsor talking certain ways, you're considered to

(42:35):
be acting white. Oh okay,So it's so there's almost like a I
don't think that's exclusive to Latino peopleeither. I think a lot of my
black friends will do that too.I'll have black friends that will code switch
and be very scholarly around a mixedgroup or a white group, and then
they get around all black people,it's like a different person. Yeah,
you don't want to come up asbeing too smarter, seeming like you're trying

(42:57):
to be too good. And theone word always I used to pick out.
I used to pick on one ofmy good black friends about this all
the times. I was like,you know, we used to tour and
I would go, I would go, Kevin, why can you say ask
fine when you're in a room fullof white people, and then the minute
another black guy shows up, youdrop two letters off that motherfucker like.
And that was always a great Thatwas always a real fun kind of bantery

(43:22):
thing back and forth for he andI when we would do the road together,
because a lot of times we're doinglike a bar in Iowa, and
I brought the only black guy intown as my opener, and so that,
you know, there was always alittle bit of kind of tension in
the room for that reason alone.And then once we would fuck with each
other on stage, then the audiencewould kind of open. I'll be like,

(43:42):
okay, cool, Like this isn'tgonna be We're not gonna have our
finger a finger wagged at us theentire time we're at this comedy show.
Yeah, self segregation is the worstfor comedy shows. Like when you actually
go to cities, you know where, it's like that. In my experience,
Chicago, Yes, very much likethat. Yeah, I did that.

(44:04):
I did Chicago a lot when Istarted because I had when I had
my job, my corporate job,I had territory of Minnesota and everything east
of there. But the other bigmarket we were building out at the time
was Chicago. And so when Ivery first started doing stand up, I
was doing Mike's one week in Minneapolis, then the next week I would go
work in Chicago, and I woulddo Mikes around Chicago the entire night,

(44:27):
and it was so weird. Iremember having a conversation when I first started
with Hannibal Burus. We were bookedon a show and he was like,
I get booked on these fucking showsbecause I'm a black guy named Hannibal Burrus
and black audience, these black audienceshate me. And he goes meanwhile,
like, you look like every hostat the improv and I bet they fucking

(44:49):
hate you, and I go,yeah, I know exactly like we were
joking how we should like. Idon't if you ever saw the movie Vice
Versa with Judge Reinhold, but itwas like a body swap movie, and
I was like, man, ifI could only just be a black guy
named Hannibal Burust, I would beI could be the next earthquake. What's
the matter with you? How manyyears back are you going that you're able?

(45:14):
You don't hear anymore? Yeah,well that was the that was the
men body swap movie. I wasn'tgonna say Freaky Friday. I didn't want
you to think I was prepping atransition here to spring on you. Yeah
I remember Vice Versa. I yeahthat I remember that, but yeah,
I remember it. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm not trying to
date both of us here, butan obscure reference like that wasn't even a

(45:36):
was it a big movie? Itwas a big though, you know.
No, And by the way,like you know, if my video store
wasn't showing before it is now right, Yeah, well that's why I know
a lot of those movies too.Is like working at the video store and
having to put everything away and thenwhen you're looking for things just to like

(45:57):
put on so that you can havesome playing in the background. And I
know the video store life did youhave rating restrictions of what you could play
while you were working too, soyou had to pick like G rated or
PG rated movies. I did,but I was the one that they put
those in place, because you're you'rewatching Scarface at two in the afternoon on

(46:20):
a school day. You know,there was this movie called I Like It
like that. I don't know ifyou ever saw that movie, but it
starts off with the sex scene,and like, you know, it's just
hardcore, just fucking and I justlike the movie, you know, because
the movie actually has substance to it. It's not just that that's just the

(46:42):
way the movie opens, right,And I liked the movie, And so
I had that in one time,and it was probably about four in the
afternoon, and there was a motherwith her kids. But I didn't think
anything about that, you know,I wasn't paying attention. You know what's
so funny about that. We're talkingabout this because of the times. Well,
so obviously Hollywood Video being a largecorporation, they had some of those

(47:06):
guidelines and because of the times.I don't know if you know this,
but I think Blazing Saddles, likethere are original prints of that on VHS
where it was rated PG, becausePG used to just mean some slightly adult
content in this movie, and sothere was literally just like P and PG.
And then it wasn't until I thinkthe seventies or eighties that are and

(47:29):
PG thirteen started to come in asthe religious right started trying to censor movies.
And you know, it's amazing thatwe're we've come full circle on this
stuff to where now the other sideis the one trying to censorship. But
we would put on Blazing Saddles ona fucking Friday night and one of the

(47:49):
more diverse parts of Minneapolis, rightwe put on Blazing Saddles. Would be
a Friday night, it would besix pm. We'd have like thirty black
people in the store, white people, Asian people, because it's Minnesota and
that's our third thing. And nobodywas offended nobody that movie. People would
literally just stop and stare at thescreens and be like, oh my god.

(48:10):
I remember this when I was akid, and this was one of
my favorite movies. We never oncehad a fucking person come to the counter
and be like, you should turnthis off. This is inappropriate. And
this isn't like nineteen eighty seven I'mtalking about. This is like two thousand
and five. We were playing thisshit in a giant public setting and people

(48:30):
were so like joyful over the nostalgiapiece that they didn't even stop to think
whether or not it was appropriate.And there would be like parents with their
little kids being like, oh mygod, this is mel Brooks, Like
I can't believe I never showed mykids these Melbrooks movies. And then we'd
have like a family come up witha stack of all of the mel Brooks

(48:50):
comedies and be like, oh mygod, you guys put this on,
and I realized I haven't shown mykids all these great comedies. And there
was never no one ever came tothe counter like do you think this is
appropriate for a nine year old?Do you think this is appropriate for a
nine year old? There was noneof that pro clutching. Yeah, we
rarely got it. I just broughtit out of people when I would do
shit like that, But that wasn'tmy intention. And also, you know

(49:14):
what I left out in the storyis my boyfriend owned the video store and
that was that I worked there.So I was kind of like, you
know, I wasn't getting told anything. I was just like, yeah,
you can, I guess try toscold me, but you know, this
is my boyfriend's store, so goodluck getting me fired. It's like it's

(49:37):
like this season we were I's like, go get the manager, and the
like I'll be right back, andthen they walk back and I'm like,
I, actually I am the manager. So I used to love doing that
when I because I was always veryyoung and people were like, get me
the manager, and I was like, the manager actually works for me,
so I don't know if you realizethat, but I'm the manager's boss.
And they were like, what thewhat the fuck was I? Where was

(50:00):
I going with that? There wassomething I was God damn it related to
comedy, or how comedy relates towhat we were just talking about with censoring
things or shutting things down. NowI completely drive yeah, well, you
know, you never run yourself offa cliff like that with your brain where
you're thinking along something and then youcompletely derail and forget what the fuck you

(50:20):
were talking about. That's my entirebrand. That's how I get in trouble
all the time. People don't realizea lot of times it's just because I
had a brain part and I putsomething else in place, and then all
that it's like that's what's in theworld, and I'm like, oh,
well, I guess this is whatwe're doing now. Yeah. I mean,
I don't even have the excuse ofbeing a pothead or a former pothead.

(50:43):
Like I'll literally be in the middleof a conversation be like, what
the fuck are we just talking aboutsomething? I wanted to ask you?
Though? You do you ever hearfrom Food Network on you know, because
I know you don't work for themanymore? Okay, No, they never
reach out to me. The thingthat it is funny about that is like
people think that they're educating the FoodNetwork about something they didn't know about.

(51:04):
Like this is what people don't understand. And again this is not me going
like I'm Jimmy Television, But Idid have a television show, and I
do know how the contract worked,and I do know the process of everything.
But like, we went through adeep dive of all of my social
media with the network before I signedmy deal, Like we had a huge
conference call with the president of thenetwork, their publicist, their social media

(51:30):
person, and they went through allof my old tweet and they had like
a handful of tweets of everything thatI had done up until that point in
twenty sixteen that they were like,should we take this down or should we
not take this down? And acouple we took down because like, there
was one rape tweet that came backup when I was when I was doing

(51:52):
the show. It came up whenI was canceled in twenty eighteen. And
the problem with that tweet, thereason I deleted it was because it was
in a thread with a bunch ofother comics who had deleted their ship,
so you had none of the contexts. It was like, uh. When
I first started, like even upuntil twenty sixteen, when I did that
brief thing on the jessel Nick offensive, I had like eight hundred followers on

(52:13):
Twitter. There were mostly other comediansthat I had worked with and traveled with,
and I was in this long threadand one of the comics in it
was with Vegas Comics. By theway, one of them was Freddie is
Korea correct? Yeah, yeah,so Freddie and I and I think,
uh, Jeff Grant. Carl Vinis that his name. He was the
other one, and we were outthere. I was I was doing La

(52:37):
Comedy Club back when it was atI was with Johnny Sanchez and we were
there when it was at Harrah's ifyou remember Vali's Yeah, ballet in the
big room with the big chandelier andship. Yeah. So we went we
went out to the diner there thatwas across from Dre's where that comic had
gotten shot. There was a dinerthere, and we were sitting there riffing

(53:00):
like what are the worst rape jokeswe've either thought of or that we've heard
other comics say, And we're literallylike throwing them out on Twitter to other
comedians, being like, what arethe worst ones you've heard? Here's this,
And then we were coming up withthem at the table and I was
like, oh, let me putthis one out that we put out.
So it was like, obviously thatone got deleted because over time all the

(53:23):
other comics who had been participating inthat thread had like deleted theirs. So
then there's just a tweet that doesn'thave a reply mark on it that says
you ever hate a bitch's guts somuch? You want to raped in holes
that don't exist yet out of thecontext of comedians sharing the worst shit in
their notebook, it looks pretty fuckingriffing, but it's also but it's also

(53:46):
so ridiculous, Like the idea thatyou're going to invent new holes in a
person is fucking funny, Like,yeah, the idea that you hate.
So I'm sure. I'm sure assomeone with a penis tie you have anger
wanted to d real new holes insomeone who has angered you in a relationship,
right, which is a preposterous premise. But anyway, the network saw

(54:07):
that and they were just like,obviously, we know you're joking, but
this one without content. I waslike, yes, just take it down.
I'll delete it, no problem.Well, somebody had screen grabbed it
from a thing from years before thatI got in with somebody on Twitter,
and then it resurfaced in twenty eighteen, also without context, and so it's

(54:27):
like but other than that, likeall the racial tweets everything else, like
the network understood like, yeah,he's a comedian, he makes jokes.
He makes sure there's jokes about whitepeople on here too. There's jokes about
everybody, Like nobody that's What drivesme nuts about cancel culture is like,
if you're gonna call me a racist, don't just go back and show all
my jokes making fun of Asian womenor Latino people or black people. Show

(54:50):
all the ones of me making funof white people too and talking about like
the whitest shit white people do.Yeah. Well, Also, as in
social media changes the way that itthings, then sometimes things look different different
than what they were too. Ihad that happened to me not too long
ago. This girl was trying toget me canceled, which is ridiculous because
I don't do anything that you canget me canceled. Like, you know,

(55:10):
it's not like I want TV orwhatever you're trying to do. What
are you gonna do get me canceledfrom the fucking chuckle hut? Like it's
not open right now anyway, right, you know. It's like the ridiculous
things that people try to get tocancel for. There was one where this
girl was saying that I had usedthe N word. Hard are not realizing
that they changed the way the retweetformat works. So remember when retweets used

(55:36):
to be just your comment and thenit would say rt and show Yeah,
So it was Bruce Jingles, who'sa black comic. Yeah. Yeah,
he posted a whole Coogan is anN word, hard R, you know,
and then I retweeted that and thenI just put lol, so it
said lol, and then it hadthe RT and then it said at Bruce

(55:57):
Jingles and then it was his Andthis girl didn't know and she was young,
so I'll give her that, youknow. So she didn't know that
that's the way retweets used to look, and so she was trying to sign
this to me, and I waslike, that's a retweet, right,
and so you know, sometimes it'slike people don't even know what she just
thinks you're calling Bruce Jingles the endword with a hard R at the end,
like he's look, he's even tellinghis black friend to his face online.

(56:23):
Yeah. Well, in some weirdway, she thought I was trying
to tell him that hull Coogan.I don't know what was happening with her,
And really it was the dumbest thingin the world. I that girl.
I hope she died. Well.I just really hate like truly dumb

(56:44):
people. At some point, youthough, as as a comic, especially
somebody who's trying to be a comedianonline in any capacity, whether it's podcasting
or whatever. You just have tomake peace with the fact that there are
gonna be dumb people are gonna gethit with the shrapnel of what you're doing,
and you just have to not careabout the collateral damage. Like it's
sort of like a thing somebody saidthis once a long time ago, and

(57:05):
it's always stuck with me. Islike, do you think fine dining steakhouses
care about the vegans outside their fuckingrestaurant protesting? You were never a customer
to begin with. You're never goingto be a customer. So if I
spend my time fucking with your opinions, I'm gonna lose my real actual customers
that want to eat here, wantto come into the steakhouse. Like,
I have to care about the peoplethat like what I do at all.

(57:29):
I'm not trying to win over thepeople that will never like what I do.
Yeah, And then you're right,because those people weren't gonna buy tickets

(58:00):
anyway. That's a lot of thesensitive LGBT people that don't like what I
do. Because there's a lot ofLGBT people that do like what I do,
but the sensitive ones that don't.I always feel like, well,
you aren't gonna like me no matterwhat I said, because you have an
idea of what's wrong and what's rightin LGBT, and I don't so much
see it that way. I thinkeverything can coexist when it comes to things

(58:22):
like that, because in my opinion, it's all important. You know,
there's the people that need to becoddled in the community, and then there's
also the harder people that are alittle bit older. And remember when things
actually we're legitimately homophobic, transphobic,when all that was really happening. You
know, now it's calmed down alot. I'm not saying it doesn't happen

(58:44):
some areas, but it's not thatway. I just remembered. I was
like, when did we last beIt was when you and I talked a
couple weeks ago and I brought upthe story. I'll tell this story for
people that are watching. I toldyou a story about growing up with my
aunt, who was sort of likemy shepherd into the world comedy. She
was the funniest of like all mydad's generation. I have a dad and

(59:04):
I had two aunts that all thosekids from my grandparents family and my younger
aunt of the two was the reallyfunny one. She was always the one
cracking jokes. But she also wasthe one who really was responsible for like
me having a love of comedy tobegin with, Like I would spend nights
of the week with her when mydad was out fucking around. My parents
were divorced when I was pretty young, so my aunt would take me and

(59:27):
we would just watch like Robin Williamscomedies and mel Brooks comedies and all these
inappropriate comedy movies. Inappropriate, I'lluse quotes. And she really developed helped
develop my comedic sensibilities in this ideaof like anything can be laughed at.
And I was telling you how shewas a hair stylist and there were days
where I would spend with her ina salon and every other guy that she
worked was gay. Guy was allgay guys. And I was telling you

(59:50):
a story about how they were talkingback and forth about watching men go into
the restrooms at Macy's with paper shoppingbags together. And I didn't know what
it was, and my aunt explainedto me, she goes, what will
happen is gay guys because they can'tlike if they're if they're in the closet
or just you know, they haveto be they have to kind of like

(01:00:13):
be away for this is like nineteeneight ninety, and she's like, you
know, guys can't just be outmake it out in public and shit.
So she's like, they'll go intothe stalls of a restroom and one guy
will get into shopping bag to suckthe other guy's dick, so nobody knows
there's two guys in there. AndI dead serious, dead serious, seven
year old eight year old kid go, how do you sit down in a

(01:00:35):
shopping back? And it was funny, and it was the guy can't remember
his name that worked with her bestfriend. He was like, oh my
god, she could she She's like, uh, my aunt said something like,
well, now the question is itwhether or not you could end up
gay. The question is how lazyof a dick sucker you might be.

(01:00:55):
It was so fucking funny, theidea. It was like they never let
it. They never let it go, Like even to the point where I
was like a young teenager, ifI would go visit her at work,
they would be like, sit downin any shopping bags lately, honey,
And I was like, no,now I'm just filling them all with too

(01:01:16):
many groceries. Yeah, I neverknew that trick until like recently in a
straight person was the one that toldme about the shopping bags. I never
knew that. Yeah, it was. So it's but it's a weird thing.
It's like, but that's a storyfrom a time. When you talk
about like persecution, it's kind oflike what you say, it's like that

(01:01:36):
was the real shit, Like therewas real homophobia, real transphobia back then
of like in every on every street, corner, everywhere you went, and
it was like the open amount ofdisgust that people would show back then is
light years away from what it istoday. And so in a way,
it's like, I don't know howyou feel about this, but my opinion,

(01:01:57):
particularly about race is like growing upas a set even year old white
kid whose mom was dating a blackguy, I remember what the real hatred
and racism and fear for your lifefrom violence because of race felt like in
the nineties. So when people pretendthat a microaggression of a joke is tantamount
to that, that pisses me offbecause it's like diminishing to the people who

(01:02:20):
lived through really fucking scary times inthis country when it came to things like
racism or homophobia or sexism in theworkplace, that type of shit. Yeah,
well that especially when you consider microaggressions. Microaggressions are in a lot of
cases, one non existent and twocompletely unintentional. Yeah, it's usually just

(01:02:43):
ignorance. Yeah, it's for memicroaggressions. That's when and I think that's
when a lot of people started toturn on political correctness. Was when they
really tried to push the microaggressions hard. I think people got like, well,
now, what can we say,because really you're getting mad about There
was one because you know, I'mvery open about the fact that I quit

(01:03:06):
school after the ninth grade. Youknow, that's when I got tired of
being in school. And I probablyprobably smarter than the rest of us.
I mean, the last three years. I don't remember much of any of
it. Yeah, I just Ifelt like, you know, after ten
years in school, I get thegist, what are we doing here?
Let's move on, you know whatI mean, There's other shit to be

(01:03:28):
done now. And so I quitgoing to school at that point. And
one time I mentioned that on myFacebook and then this woman had commented,
and she was just like, youknow, it's funny that you that you
actually mentioned that, like it's abad thing. She was like, I
always thought you were really well spokenand your jokes are really smart, and
she said something like that, andthen all of a sudden, this guy

(01:03:50):
jumps on and he's like, actually, you telling a person because she was
a white woman, Actually you tellinga person of color that they are well
spoken well is a microaggression blah blahblah. And I was just like,
no, it was in you haveto remember the context. I'm talking about
the fact that you know, mequitting, So anyway, that for me,

(01:04:10):
I just I hate what people tryto turn it into sometimes because it's
like, that's not what that is. Yeah. Well, and again,
like saying that you're well spoken inthe context of your limited traditional education makes
sense, saying it to a randomblack person at a drive through is not
that, right, Like, wow, you're so well spoken, I mean,
And that's the thing that's like,as a comedian, that's why I'll

(01:04:33):
never be able to get away fromjoking about race, because I don't know
what it is. It's like myhead is programmed to see it, but
I'll see things like that out inpublic, And most of my jokes about
race are making fun of people doingthe wrong thing when it comes to being
racially sensitive or overdoing it to beracially sensitive. Like the fact that so

(01:04:53):
many people tiptoe around each other.It's like I grew up no matter what
color you were, what you're sexualorientation was, everybody was most happy and
comfortable breaking each other's balls about whatthey were. Like, I've never seen
gay people get ripped on harder thanthey do by other gay people, right,
and say with black people, Latinopeople, and so it's like part

(01:05:15):
of being in those in different groupsis just how hard you're able to shit
on each other. And that requiresa little bit of understanding, right,
so that you have some inside perspectiveto shit on somebody with. But ultimately
that's based in respect, Right,Like the idea that I know enough about
black culture to shit on specific thingsinside black culture is ultimately a sign of

(01:05:40):
respect. It's not a sign ofdisrespect. Like if I were just saying
blanketed trivial things that are like lazyracist assumptions that people would make about a
group of people, that's one thing. But when you're surgical with it where
you're just sort of like talking aboutthings like, you know, plastic on
certain types of couches. And Ihad a joke that I used to do

(01:06:03):
all the time when I would doBlack Rooms, about how black people would
have food in the drive through orat a fast food restaurant. And it
was so laser specific about that processthat it was never offensive. No,
no black audiences were ever offended byit because they knew that it was voiced
in coming from the frustrations of everywhite person that's ever stood behind them.

(01:06:26):
It's like, that is what comedyis supposed to be. It's about finding
the funny in the things that wedeal with every day that make us uncomfortable
or would otherwise, you know,make us fucking kill each other. I
don't know, if you saw thestory of the three people in Pennsylvania murdered,
double murder, suicide over shoveling snow, if those people would have learned
how to break each other's fucking ballsand have some beers, they wouldn't all

(01:06:49):
be dead. Yeah, I didn'tsee or hear that yet. I'm waiting
too, because I just heard aboutthat last night and I need to look
into it. When it comes totrans phobia though. That's one where it
really gets on my nerves when peoplecall me transphobic, because I'm like,
no, you don't understand that Icame up with trans people and so I'm

(01:07:12):
so used to trans people in theway they joke you with the joke with
each other and in the trans community. A lot of the stuff I say.
Wouldn't it all be considered transphobic.What it's considered is reading, which
is, you know, just whatyou do. You just read read people
once in a while, and everyonce in a while you got read.
You know, it was just likedepending on what side you were, all
what was happening, and it wasall in good fun. And my thing

(01:07:36):
is, if anything, I'm toocomfortable with trans people, so I just
end up saying stuff and then peopleare offended by and it's like, okay,
well you know you're and when theyare trans people that get offended,
they're either new or not good atlooking like what they're supposed to be.
And that's not my fault, right, you need to work harder. Don't

(01:07:56):
get mad at me because they calledyou sir at them all. Yeah it
was an honest mistake, right,Yeah, my favorite. That's probably one
of my favorite bits here is maybeyou should look like what the fuck you're
supposed to look like? Yeah,if you're going to call yourself a woman,
at least look like you've seen atsome point in your fucking life,
which is fair criticism. By theway. That's like I say, you

(01:08:18):
don't get bad at us. Yeah, no, it was. Look,
I'm making my best assumption here.There is in a lot of cases,
and then people get called transphobic andthey're like, oh, I didn't know
you're a woman. You know.Yeah, my imagination is not where it
needs to be for that to bemy predetermined conclusion. Yeah. But the

(01:08:40):
other thing is, like with mostpeople, if you'll notice what people are
really like, if you were tojust tell them at that point, on
a serious note, if you wereto just tell them I identify as a
woman, or I am a woman. I am a woman might be allowed
to get away with but I identifyas a woman. Most people would just
be like okay, and then justgive you the she and the her pronouns

(01:09:02):
and not really have a problem.Yeah. Yeah, and by the way,
might roll their eyes when you turnyour back, like Jesus Christ,
right, Okay, madam. Thisis the this is the thing. I
don't think madam is used enough.I would use madam on trans women all
the time because it's in a wayyou're you're following the protocol, but it's
also a little bit of a it'sa little bit of a okay madam.

(01:09:26):
Oh, I'm Madam all the time. I'm a Madam user, you know.
I use that with my gay friendsall the time. We're like,
hello, madam. Right, it'sit's a it's a feminine fuck you of
all things. It's it's under used. You're right, Yeah, okay,
madam Rivera. It's the perfect it'sthe perfect way to sort of compliment an

(01:09:50):
insult all at the same Yeah,it's I used sir in the same way
use sir every time, Like anytimeone of my guy friends will say something
stupid, I'm like, excuse me, sir, Sarah will slow you down,
sir, I'm gonna need you totake a step backwards. Yeah.
So it's I don't know, it'sit's a weird place, but it's I

(01:10:11):
ultimately think, like back to whatwe were saying in the very beginning,
the cool thing is is I thinkless people are just being innocent bystanders in
this sort of culture war that's happeningaround comedy. And I think fans of
comedy are being more agro in defendingcomedians now than they were three years ago,
two years ago. I think they'resort of like I think in the

(01:10:31):
beginning, people believe the cancel culturewas like this fake thing, and then
I think now they're starting to see, like the real life consequences are.
You don't get any TV shows youlike anymore, you don't get any entertainment
that's funny, you don't get anyreal diversity in what you ingest in terms
of film and movie and television,and so there are real consequences to consumers

(01:10:55):
not defending comedians rights to be insaneand funny and crazy and interesting. You
know. That's the thing that Ithink gets overlooked all the time, is
like somebody being offensive could be hacked, but somebody being inoffensive can be hacked
too. But part of being interestingis finding new lanes, whether they're offensive

(01:11:15):
or inoffensive. Right. I mean, Brian Regan is regarded as one of
the most talented comedians in the world. His premises are all very mundane,
right, So it's not about offensiveor inoffensive. We're all trying to find
that lane of what makes us unique. And when you start putting the bumpers
up, the guardrails up as towhat can where the boundaries are, you're
gonna end up with more people thatare trying to like stay inside the lines.

(01:11:40):
Then you're gonna end up with anythingthat's interesting or unique or diverse.
And you know, the thing thatconcerns me about you know where the business
is going, and you and Italk about this a lot, is like
the problem with diversity in Hollywood rightnow is that it's it's like a check
the box diversity. So it's likeyou have a black guy and a transwoman
and you have a gay man,and they're all Stanford educated Ivy League kids

(01:12:03):
who come from trust funds, whocome from money, and so they're about
as fucking diverse as a pacabaloni.I mean, it's all it's like different
colors of the same perspective. Yeah, and they're so interested in feeling those
quotas that they don't pay attention totalent at all. Like, Okay,

(01:12:24):
I get it, they're black,but that doesn't necessarily mean they're funny.
They're gay, but that doesn't meanthey're funny. It's like you go down
the list and it's like you're noteven being patient enough to pick funny people
from the groups that you want torepresent. You're so desperate to just feel
these slots that you're just like,Okay, you're black, I'll take you.
You know what I mean, it'snot look at the people that they

(01:12:45):
choose, and I'm not going tocall out names because really I'm not trying
to be that guy about it.But at the same time, if you
just look at what represents it's like, yeah, this isn't funny. He's
black and he's gay, but he'snot funny. So what are we doing
here? Yeah, And the realityis there probably dozens and dozens of black
gay comedians that are funny, youknow, and there are that's that really

(01:13:08):
is what's going on, you knowwhen it comes to um Tiffany Hattish,
Tiffney Hattish is great and she's funny, but there are a lot of black
women that are funny as well.So the way that they act like Tiffany
Hattish. And I don't mean TiffanyHattish acts this way because she doesn't do
this at all. She's actually tryingto put other black performers on, but
you know, with their whole specialthat's nothing but black performers. But right

(01:13:32):
when it comes to Tiffany Hattish,the industry acts like Tiffany Hattish is this
anomaly, and it's like, no, actually, there's a lot of funny
black women out there. You've justchose Tiffany. Yeah, I mean miss
Pat for one. Adel Givens.The fact that Adol Gives never had a
mainstream Hollywood career is fucking insane.Yeah, she's been one of my favorite

(01:13:55):
comics forever, like way back sincelike before Queen's a comedy, when she
was just doing a little like morelike comic view type stuff. Yeah,
like that's when I remember Adel Gibbonsand also some more, Yeah, Theavidal
some more. I mean there areso many. Yeah, there's so many

(01:14:15):
out there that are just fucking youknow, better even better versions. Now
are they as young or are theyas pretty anymore? I mean obviously all
those things factor into it, butit's like, sure, you know,
that's one of the things though,that to me, it's like comedy should
be the thing I remember growing upand watching Eddie Iszard and be like Oh,
comedy can be kind of a freakshow that's kind of cool. Like

(01:14:38):
the idea that like Eddie Iszard andEddie Hazzard wasn't like outwardly, he didn't
come out and do ten minutes onwhat he was to set up his special.
He came out as as a man, dressed like a woman, and
then just did comedy for an hour. There wasn't an explanation, there wasn't
a disclaimer, there wasn't anything.And I also as a viewer as a

(01:14:58):
kid, never was like I needit. It was like, oh,
comedians can be whatever the fuck.They just have to be interesting. And
that's what bothers me. Is thisidea that now when they say that they
want diversity and they want like wewant to make we want to create shows
around gay comics, It's like,I want gay comics that are interesting people
like the fact that like a boringgay gets a show over Ty Rivera is

(01:15:21):
like a waste of film, youknow what I mean? And I say
that, and it's it's not likedick suckery, it's just genuine. I
would much rather watch a show aboutyou, in your life and your point
of view than just some generic boringgay person who went to UCB for ten
years and Amy Schumer saw their play, Amy Poehler, I said, Amy

(01:15:43):
Schumer, Yeah, it's like,you know, shout out to Joel Kim
Booster. But you couldn't help yourself, could you, Madam, you couldn't
help yourself. I had to.I could literally, I could literally see
in your face as I'm saying this, you're going whose name? Whose name

(01:16:04):
am I gonna say? Right here? Well, you know what else is
going? Or bow and yang?I mean you could throw out I mean,
there's more than one, but Imean I do like I do like
who you drafted in the slot?Thank you, thank you. That would
be appreciated. That's a pretty goodany comic knows, I think most comics

(01:16:24):
agree with you. That's one.That's one. That's definitely one. But
you know, but I try tobe somewhat supportive of that. Aid Aidan
Park is a way funnier, crazierversion of Joel Kim Booster. Yeah,
Park, and he has a youknow, he has a story. His
husband just died, and you know, like it's there's a lot going on

(01:16:45):
there. So if yeah, thatwould be an interesting one to hear about
her here from but just the onesthat they pick, it's like, all
right, well, I guess thisis what the industry wants to go with.
Just like you know Nanette, youknow Hannah Gatsby, There's there are
legitimately funny white women out there thatwould fit that same description, even non

(01:17:06):
binary, you know, if that'swhat she identifies as or trans whatever it
is that she's supposed to represent exactly, there are funny First. I love
that you're just thinking about her faceand body and you're going, I don't
even know what column that goes inanymore. Yeah, I don't know she's

(01:17:27):
trying to do. She's one whereI'm like, Okay, I don't know
exactly what you're trying to do becauseI think she identifies as non binary.
I think I read that somewhere orsaw it somewhere. But that was very
frustrating to me because I did areview on that on YouTube of Nanette,
and I had so many people inthe comments. I got like twenty or

(01:17:47):
thirty thousand views, and I hadso many people in the comments trying to
call me sexist just because I didn'tlike it comedically, and I'm like,
that has nothing to do with hergender. Yeah, you know what's interesting
is there's there's a I'll get yourtake on it. I don't even know
if you're very familiar with it.Um, did you watch the show Um,

(01:18:11):
I May Destroy you on HBO withMICHAELA MICHAELA Cole. No, So
it's a really good show. Ifyou have HBO Max or whatever, I
would tell you definitely binge it.It's definitely bingeable. But everybody is talking
about that not getting nominated for GoldenGlobes. MICHAELA. Cole is a black
like comedic show runner. She createda show called Chewing Gum in the UK

(01:18:33):
She's British, which was kind oflike a silly comedy and um, and
then she wanted to do something alittle more dramatic. There's some story behind
Netflix kind of fucking her over withthe way they treated her, and you
know, just a lot of sortof like even even basically the painted picture,

(01:18:54):
long story short is, even whenyou are a black creator who sort
of gets taped and gets to comein, you're still not necessarily treated like
the creative genius that a lot ofother people are treated like when they get
their opportunities right. So she wentto HBO with her show and had a
little bit more freedom, and shemade the show called I May Destroy You,

(01:19:17):
which is based off of a reallife experience of hers where she was
basically like woke up and started topiece together that she had been either date
raped or blacked out and assaulted insome way whatever. And this show is
her kind of unraveling that mystery.She's trying to go back and retrace her

(01:19:41):
steps, figure out what happened,figure out, you know, her part
in it, other people's part init, everything else. And a lot
of people are saying that she gotsnubbed because you know, she's black and
it's that show. I actually don'tthink that's the case. I think part
of the reason that she got snubbedAnd I'm going to do a whole episode

(01:20:01):
of another podcast on this with hopefullysomebody in the TV space that I would
love to get their commentary on itfrom a production perspective. But I think
the reason that it was let outbecause she's very critical of the way that
women in that circumstance use their victimhoodas a way to drive their own brand.

(01:20:23):
And there's a couple episodes where shesort of like highlights what a fucking
horrific monster she becomes by being someonewho's recognized in the community as one of
these brave women who came forward aboutan incident or being a victim of assault,
and how she sort of becomes thisdisgusting, you know, preachy person

(01:20:44):
and throughout that like alienates and makesall of her friends feel like shit,
you know, and puts herself ona pedestal as like this feminist spokesperson,
and then finds out that she hadthis very sort of deep blind spot with
one of her gay friends, constantlyputting him in compromising sexual positions in their
friend group because she just didn't thinkanything of it with him being a gay

(01:21:08):
man. And she's like, well, you're gay guys, you can't basically
like, you're gay guys, youcan't sexually assault each other. You love
it, right, and being completelyignorant, while she's also being this social
justice warrior campaigning for victimhood or whatever. So it's a very in depth look
on the hypocrisy of people that usevictimhood as a means to brand themselves.

(01:21:30):
I think that's why she didn't gettapped from a globe's perspective, because to
call her brilliant. You kind ofhave to admit she's right, And then
that opens up a whole other canof worms about victimhood and the way that
we worship victims and want to putthem on a pedestal, regardless of whether
or not that's justified or make sense. Does that make sense? Well,

(01:21:54):
yeah, you know, But thenthat conversation is actually an interesting one to
have all together, and the factthat she's willing to bring that up to
me, that's very important, youknow how, Or check out the show,
because you know, the the unfortunatething about not being able to question

(01:22:16):
victims at all or even make themexamine their own behavior or what led to
that road or led them down thatroad, is you know, and I
say this as a person that's beena victim of different things, and I
say that with the quotes and soexhausted because it's well, I remember you
told, and I won't spoil it. People can go back. It's is

(01:22:38):
it still on your YouTube? Youyou did a YouTube video one time walking
through a whole scenario and saying,on one hand, you could look at
it this way, and on anotherhand, you could look at it that
way. Yeah, and and eitherway, like you could see me completely
to blame or you could see theother person completely to blame, Like,
yeah, well that was on thereview I did of that. What was

(01:23:00):
I just saw it. It's Nate? Was it Nate? Yeah, it
was the one on Nate. Butlike sometimes with victim culture or victimhood,
if you really run it down andthis is some people are gonna get mad
at this, but it is whatit is. The only thing you're a
victim of victim of at the endof the day is your own bad decisions.
Yeah, and that's that's something thatwe need to talk about too.

(01:23:24):
So, yeah, the other personwas involved in some way, but sometimes
that's what you were, the victimof it, and that I think that's
what bothers people the most and reallyturns them so bitter, is that it
sucks sometimes to realize that you weren'tthe friend or the protector of yourself that
you should have been. That's areally I think powerful call out and in

(01:23:47):
the sense that I think that isat the core of how everyone who's a
quote unquote victim if something feels islike ultimately, you know, even even
looking at anything negative that's happened inmy life at any point, the first
person I always look at is like, what did I do that put me
in that position? You know?And and good or bad? It's like
everything else is secondary to that.Like I can say I was unfairly targeted,

(01:24:12):
I could say that I was givenunfair treatment, but ultimately I am
the reason that I was in thatposition in any way, shape or form
to begin with. And I think, you know, it's uh, I
think having that is your default thingof saying, like, ultimately, I'm
responsible for what happens to me.I might need help to get out of
it, or I might not beable to get out of it myself.

(01:24:33):
But I think that's like the bigthat's sort of like the big difference between
left and right in this country.I think there are there are people who
think that ultimately the life they leadas a product of their own choices and
their own responsibility and the power thatthey they used to kind of grab their
life by the balls or the pussymeat or whatever the man made synthetic genitalia,

(01:25:00):
Uh yeah, whatever it is.But by yeah, you're grabbing,
Yeah, you're grabbing by the snatchyou Well, I wasn't gonna call it
this the snatch, the snatchables,what do you want to call it?
Grabbed by the snatch? Snatching ballsis good, but I like grabbing by
the pussy being yeah, yeah,you can't be prepared for grabbing something by

(01:25:20):
the pussy different gang man, it'snot and you're it's not. It's not
even in your radar. You don'teven think about it. It's like it's
like liver or worse. You don'teven know how many times you walk by
it at the Delhi it's there's neversomething you're interested in grab Yeah, but
I mean, you know, andthen the other side sort of has this

(01:25:42):
idea of their existence is what theworld does to them. And and you
know, smarter people than I havetaught me at a very young age,
like you know, ten percent ofwhat happens to you and or ten percent
of your life is what happens toyou. Ninety percent is what you do
with it um and ultimately that comesdown to you. It's your choice.
What are you going to do withthis tragedy? What are you going to

(01:26:03):
do with this thing? And that'swhy I always get mad when people get
offended for other people or say thatsomething is you know, racist on behalf
of another group. It's like,who are you? It's a weird bigotry
of low expectations, Like who areyou to step in and tell that person
that their life is harder because ofwho they are. It's like, let
them make that decision for themselves.Yeah, and some people don't understand,

(01:26:23):
and this tends to be more ofthe people on the left don't understand that.
You can acknowledge both things. Youcan acknowledge that, yes, people
should you be more aware and whateverelse. But the thing is the world's
going to continue to be the world, So how are you going to handle
that? You know? So,yeah, we all can't agree that racism

(01:26:45):
shouldn't be a thing like it is, homophobius shouldn't be a thing like it
is, discrimination and harassment shouldn't bethings like they are. But at the
same time, I'm not gonna lieto you and say that the world's going
to change tomorrow. So what youcan change is your perspective and also how
you adjust to the world around youso that this doesn't have to be a
constant victimization you know well, Andit also isn't going to go away with

(01:27:09):
nobody talking about it either, Andit definitely mockingly most of the time that
I If I've ever done a jokethat is sort of like racist on purpose,
it's generally because I'm calling attention tothat mentality or that kind of thinking,
or I'm directly quoting somebody who livesin that world and pointing out how
absurd it is or ridiculous it is. If you take away comedians ability to

(01:27:30):
mock the awful truths of the worldthat we live in, who else is
going to bring it up? Whatother what other group of people is going
to bring up those uncomfortable truths.Politicians aren't going to do it. They'll
still stay miles away from any opinionsthat could get them in hot water.
Athletes are going to do it.Actors aren't going to do it. Bloggers

(01:27:51):
will do it in the most boringway possible that nobody will read except for
their friends. That's whole talk aboutit. It's ridiculous. Um, What
what I was gonna say is aboutgoing back to them the Savage af podcast

(01:28:12):
that you did. What what hasbeen the the aftermath of your commentary video,
which, by the way, thereare a lot of people that just
straight up do fucking commentary on likepodcasts and stuff as a business, and
none of them cut it together aswell as you did. There were some
moments in there where you just jump, You just cut in with a comment,
which is the fucking hilarious. AndI'll tell people to go check it

(01:28:34):
out. What's your tie? What'syour YouTube? Plug it for people before?
Yeah, if they just go toty Rivera t h A I R
I v R, they can findyou one. My U r L is
YouTube dot com slash Ti Rivera,so you know that's a big way to
do it. But yeah, youcan definitely um find all my ridiculousness there.

(01:28:56):
The situation with Savage AF, Ihaven't heard from Shang or Black Pedro.
They've blocked me on every platform,so that's very mature. Yeah,
you know, that's apparently the waythey like to keep it is very mature
around the Savage AF. You know, you can't call it Savage AF and
then get mad because your guest isSavage AF. Yeah. I mean there's

(01:29:20):
so many We could do a wholeshow on miss branded podcasts. I have
a friend who's a comic that Iused to run a show with, who
has a podcast called The Unpopular Opinionand all they do is sit around with
four people that agree with them andjerk each other off all day with very
popularly accepted opinions. So it's sofunny to me when people brand themselves that

(01:29:41):
way and then fail to live upto their own brand promise, right,
like, yeah, we're gonna besavage, Like as long as you agree
with us, then we'll be savagetowards other people. Yeah, as long
as you're really easy. Yeah,I mean, did you did you walk
out of that with any sort oflike did you did you find any good

(01:30:01):
came out of it for you interms of just being a comedian, being
a podcaster or a broadcaster, youknow, was there anything you pulled out
of that that you were like,Man, I'm glad I don't do this,
or Matt Man, I'm glad thatI do do this. Did it
reinforce any sort of decisions that you'vemade in your career? Um? Yeah,

(01:30:25):
well I reinforced that. I was. You know, like, I've
always thought it's better to have justgood conversations with people even if you really
don't even if you really don't agreewith them at all, And that's something
I've always done on my podcast whenI have guest on, my podcast is
unbothered by tyre Ear for anybody thatwants to check it out. But I've
been doing more solo podcasts recently,But when I was having guest on,

(01:30:48):
I would have people that I reallydidn't agree with on, and I'd have
good conversations with them because I wouldstay quiet and let them actually, you
know, tell me about themselves,because it's like I already know how I
think, so let me hear howyou think, and then you know,
I would just interject my opinions.I wouldn't just lose my opinions because they

(01:31:10):
were on, but I wouldn't arguewith them or be hostile towards them.
And I've always liked that it makesit so that I can find common ground
with them. With Shang and BlackPedro, they were so anxious to argue
that there were times when I waswatching it, when I was editing at
where I was like, see,right, there is where we could actually

(01:31:30):
found some common ground and then wecould have had an interesting conversation. So
it just reinforced that, you know, I like the way I personally do
things when it comes to dealing withpeople that I don't agree with. I
wasn't happy with how angry I gotwith them because there was a point where
I got a little bit matter thanmaybe I wanted to, and I didn't
really like the side of myself Ishowed. But at the same time,

(01:31:53):
I was so frustrated because people forgetthat we do take time out of whatever
it is we're doing to do,you know, other people's projects. So
if somebody is nice enough to youthat they're willing to take time out of
what they're doing to do your projectthat they're not being paid for, then
the least you can do is berespectful and appreciative. Right. It's like,

(01:32:15):
you know, if especially when it'ssomebody that I think is like again,
we all have different fan bases,we all have different things, and
part of the collaboration is like theability to introduce yourself to new potentially new
fans and new people. It's like, you know, I want you on
my show so that people that likeme, that I think would like you

(01:32:39):
get to see you and go,oh, I like this Tyrivera. I
want to go check out his podcast, I want to go listen to his
show, I want to look athis YouTube videos and vice versa. It's
like, we do these things becausewe are trying. We're all trying to
grow at what it is that we'redoing, and then you know, at
the end of the day, tolose sight of that in the process of
actually doing it is like, whatthe fuck are you doing any of this

(01:33:00):
or anyway? Like the last thingpeople want to do is tune into a
podcast to watch you congratulate yourself onhow fucking right you are about the world.
Like there's so much of that inthe space. And that's one of
the things I don't like about theright. The right is so self congratulatory
and pompous about their own opinions.It's like, part of the reason the
right loses the culture war is becausethey overintellectualize everything. And sometimes you need

(01:33:24):
to be able to just shoot theshit, have fun and make fun of
the other guys and fuck around andbe silly. That's why I think some
of the criticism that conservative comedians aren'tfunny is fair, because they a lot
of times don't try to be funny. A lot of times they spend way
too much time waxing intellectual about theiropinions, and they don't insert any of
their humorous talent into making their points. I think that's why somebody like Tim

(01:33:47):
Dillon is so successful, because hemight have some views that are on the
conservative side or down the middle,or even on the far left, but
no matter what, it's always wrappedin a blanket of funny. And you
know, I think the biggest problemis going to be people figuring out how
to Um. It's the best mentalityor the best analogy I could use is

(01:34:10):
sometimes when you have a little dog, right bes you, if you have
to give your dog medicine, yougot to wrap it in cheese. And
I think on the conservative side,and definitely Trump supporters fucking terrible at the
wrapping it in cheese part. Uh. They'd rather just stick the pills directly
up your asshole and hope that itgets absorbed. Right. So, and

(01:34:30):
I think, you know, conservativeshave to get much better at wrapping their
points in really funny cheese, um, if they're ever going to start to
be taken seriously. Yeah, no, that I agree with. But you
know, um, I think everybody, both sides, all sides need to
also learn to open their ears alittle bit, you know, because nobody

(01:34:56):
wants to hear any it's It's weirdto me how supposedly everybody wants to get
better and things to get better,but nobody actually wants to hear anything that
they don't like. And it's like, things don't work that way. In
order to get better, you haveto hear things you don't like. You
know, as comedians, we knowthat whether it's listening to yourself in a
recording or having a friend that youtrust tell you, but you do need

(01:35:23):
to hear some negative feedback in orderto improve things. Yeah, totally,
it's and I think as comedians partof why we pick this. And I
don't know if you and I haveever really talked about like how you found
yourself a comedian, but I thinkit all for us starts at a place
of us being naturally curious people.And part of being a good comedian is

(01:35:45):
being curious enough so far as tosay that you are willing to put yourself
in uncomfortable positions to learn something newabout a group of people you may not
have a lot of exposure to,or individuals that you haven't spent time with.
It's sort of like this willingness toput yourself out there socially and fail
is sort of what makes a goodcomedian. It's not necessarily like growing up

(01:36:09):
with trauma or whatever, because Iwould argue those traumas come from being willing
to put yourself in risky situations righta lot of times. And so I
think naturally comedians good ones are curiouspeople that are more willing to go Well,
I don't understand this, so letme ask the right questions and see
what I can learn. And youknow, most of my conservative opinions that

(01:36:32):
are new came from listening to peoplethat disagreed with me, and they made
better points, like they just madebetter points like and I remember, you
know, I didn't vote for Trumpin twenty sixteen. I voted for Gary
Johnson. But I remember when youwere like, very hard on the Trump
wagon when nobody was on it intwenty sixteen. And I remember watching videos

(01:36:55):
of yours and be like, fuck, he's ties pointing out things that I've
never even noticed or I wouldn't knowbecause a lot of what you talked about
at that time was immigration. Andthe thing that was so interesting to me
was your perspective on immigration as aLatino in the community who lived in southern
California, Arizona. You know,in border States most of your life.
And I was I remember being like, oh shit, like I this is

(01:37:18):
a perspective I would never have anddon't have, and it's completely different than
what I think most people assume.Yeah, and at that point, I
was living in the neighborhood, theMacArthur Park neighborhood. Yeah, so that's
heavily, heavily Latino. It's morethan Mexican there, it's um El Salvadori,

(01:37:41):
Al Salvadori and Guatemalin. Yeah,that's that very central Central America.
Yeah, and that was also umwhat's it called. It was the home
of you know, MS thirteen.Yeah, and they originally came here that
that was where they took over.That was their neighborhood. MacArthur Park is
still you know, a lot ofMS thirteen. I used to walk my
dog there every day and you seea lot of the guys, you know,

(01:38:05):
well, there's a lot of there'sa lot of like what a lot
of people don't realize. Again,this is sort of like white people's racism
through exception and blindness. Part ofthe reason why a lot of their arguments
about what's good or bad for theLatino community is their failure to make distinctions
amongst the Latino community, and thefact that there are you might see two

(01:38:25):
brown people that you think are thesame, one as El Salvadorian, the
other is Guatemalan, and they fuckinghate each other. And there's so much
cultural separation within you know, LatinAmerica, Central America, South America,
different cultural differences, just like thereare with Irish people between Protestants and Catholics,
and just like there are in theblack community between Africans like from certain

(01:38:48):
parts of Africa and African Americans.So it's like there is the fact that
a lot of white people don't evenknow that there's a cultural distinction where there
are certain groups that you think areall together that actually hate each other,
shows how ignorant you are. Mexicansand Puerto Ricans for sure, Oh yeah,
Latinos, that people would love ustogether. And you know, in

(01:39:11):
some cases, in some cases youcan tell a difference from looking, you
know, and who's Puerto Rican andwho's Mexicans. But sometimes you can't,
you know what I mean. LikeJlo is a good example of that.
She could be a Mexican, youknow, like she played Selena. She
looks like she's a Mexican, she'sactually Puerto Rican, so her experience is
completely different than mine, even thoughtechnically we look like we could be the

(01:39:32):
same, certainly. Yeah yeah,and I mean, and that's you know,
that that goes not only for likedifferent types of different types of Mexicans,
and it's different, but it's thesame for like people that are even
up the same exact race or ethnicitywho grew up in different parts of the
world, different parts of the country, like you know, and that goes,

(01:39:55):
that can go. Um, thatgets more into sort of classism and
cultural separation than race, right,But see, people can help themselves out
by thinking of it in their ownterms. You know. I'm just kind
of because if you think about it, the way that a southern white person
thinks about things and a Northern whiteperson things about things are two different ways,

(01:40:17):
you know, but completely delated,completely different. Yeah yeah, I
mean, and even just like theracism amongst white people, the racism amongst
types of white people, Like thereare different types of Italians who fucking hate
each other, Northern Italians and Sicilians. You know, everybody in America might
look at them as the same Italians, but they're very very different, very

(01:40:38):
different culturally, same with like Spanishand Portuguese. By the way, I
just watch Mystic Pizza for the firsttime in like twenty years, and I
totally forgot that all those girls weresupposed to be Portuguese. I've never seen
Mystic Pizza. Well, then guesswhat, Ty Rivera, I'm now gayer
than you are. I'm tired ofyou. The movie references I officially have

(01:41:04):
just deceived. I've just received myblack belt in homosexuality, so I don't
know that, but they my beltceremony would be later today. It will
be Chanel. Now I'm gonna writedown Mystic Pizza. Are you giving me
this assignment? Yeah? Yeah,watch I May Destroy You on HBO and
then Mystic Pizza where Julia Roberts culturallyappropriates being a Portuguese that's right, yeah,

(01:41:32):
yeah. And by the way,there's a lot of like it takes
place in Connecticut and there's a lotof obviously anti Portuguee racism is the core
theme of the movie. So yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild. It's
pretty well three three women that arenot Portuguese playing Portuguese women in the eighties,
you know, classic Hollywood cinema,it was a simpler time. Yeah,

(01:41:58):
No, one's asking Julia Roberts todefend that one. By the way,
Hey Julia, what about the timeyou played a Portuguese woman? Any
regrets? Yeah, Sandra Bullock,remember that time you rescued a black from
being black in that movie? Anythoughts on that one. That's the thing
I love is like how the wokemob never really goes after the people it
should. Yeah, there's there's likeso many of those instances out there where

(01:42:21):
it's just like, h we're notWe're not going to address that one.
Uh, it's so much fun.Tie, Where where can people find you?
I'm not going to keep you allday. There's always a blast having
you on. And I definitely thinkas much as we could talk about the
Shang thing, people need to goto your YouTube channel and watch that full
It's like, is it ninety minutes, it's two hours. It's worth every

(01:42:43):
fucking minute, though, it's worthevery minute. I mean, if you
want to watch political correctness or evenjust left I'll say leftism because they came
off as just straight up systemic leftismin that podcast. If you want to
see that get assassinated and just completelydismantled on a substantive level. Right,

(01:43:04):
It wasn't even like you were trolling. You were literally just beating them with
better arguments, And it was almostlike they didn't expect you to come as
educated on the topics as you were. Yeah, I like when I got
what I got. This is onething I liked about me getting madder than
I showed up. There's a pointwhere I'm like where I'm yelling at them

(01:43:24):
just the word no because they're tryingto like overtalk me. And then in
the commentary I interject with Dad's mad. It's like, because that's what it
felt like, you know, Ifelt like Dad game mad at the point
it was like, all right,well I'll turn this fucking car around god
damn it, which they were exactlywhat it was. But Yeah. The

(01:43:45):
other thing that's fun too is whenpeople are like, this is my podcast
and I'll do it. However Igot damn well please, and it's like,
well, i'm your guest and youasked me on like do you bring
do you invite people over to dinnerand then tell them you're serving them shit
and they go, well, Ikind of like something that's not ship.
Do you go, this is myhouse and I'll serve whatever I God damn
well please, like, yeah,I'm alert, this is my house.
And what a horrible host. You'rejust having people over for dinner. Like,

(01:44:09):
I don't give a fuck what you'reallergic to. This is what we
make. Well. I bet thisguy's wife has a great time existing.
Yeah. But people can find meat Tyrivera dot com or they can go
to YouTube dot com. Ty Riveragot you right there. Yeah, that's
that's my YouTube, and then youknow Instagram, that's cool at official ty

(01:44:31):
Rivera. Just you know, googlety Rivera. Spell it anyway you want.
One of the things that I'm excitedabout in this new year is the
potential of doing some stuff on theroad. I know I've talked to you
briefly about it, um about doingsome prohibition era comedy coming up. I
mean, what are your thoughts onthis? Do you have any predictions?

(01:44:51):
Do you think it's going to beanother year of lockdowns and distancing before we're
back to normal? I personally donot. I think by summer we're going
to be out and living again.Do you think they'll you think you mean
when President Harris takes over I mean, we all know that's the playbook,

(01:45:12):
right, did you one of thethings I saw, by the way,
I don't think he saw this ifhe didn't watch a lot of the Super
Bowl, but they opened with likeJoe Biden and his wife giving an address
to the American people. And itstarted with like Jill Biden at the center
of the frame and Joe like offto the side, which is pretty uncommon
for a sitting president to take aback seat to his wife. I don't

(01:45:35):
even think Barack did that as muchas people loved Michelle and and literally she's
like she's reading off the prompter,basically giving the address to America. And
then he's like off to the sidewith his squinty fucking deathbed eyes, like
wear a mask social distance. He'slike like literally like a pull the string

(01:45:58):
doll at this point where just repeatsthe same words over and over again.
And I was looking at that goingtheir weekend at Bernie's being this guy already
like he's already being propped up justto make it through. There's no fucking
way this guy makes it to thefourth of July. There's no way.
Yeah, no, I think thatwould be an interesting death pull to start

(01:46:20):
to you know, at least you'rein Vegas. Is there action on that?
Can we bet on? Can webet on the over under on when
Harris takes office? I need tolook into that because I don't know,
but there has to be This isVegas. There's a line on everything.
There should be, right. Ifwe can bet on fake currencies in the
stock market, then I damn wellbetter be able to bet on how quickly

(01:46:42):
the president gets sick. I mean, there are so many moments in a
camp. Remember that moment in thecampaign where he's like, yeah, her
and I disagree on something, I'llget sick and go away. And I
was like, you, did youjust accidentally tell us the plan? Did
she just tell us the plan?Yeah, there's there's a lot of that

(01:47:05):
happening. If you I don't knowhow anybody takes any of this truly seriously
anymore. You know, it's justlike you you can't have a side at
this point. You really can't doyou know, like you can say what's
wrong with the different sides, butyou can't be an intelligent person and truly
have a side because they're both ridiculousand it's like no, and if you

(01:47:30):
if you think that anyone in thatroom is out for anything other than their
own best interest, you're fooling yourself. Like, there's one politician in this
country that I think truly is fitto lead and truly does care about this
country and the and the betterment ofthe people, and that's Tulsy Gabbard.
I think she's the only person I'veseen who I believe actually gives a fuck

(01:47:55):
thank you. Yeah, yes,no, that's I feel the same way.
But she, you know, she'salways talking about holding people accountable.
That's why I like tells you somuch, because she gets it. It's
like, yeah, it doesn't matterwho you are, which side you're on,
we're supposed to be holding you accountable. And yeah we should expect,
you know, for people to reachacross the aisle and be able to work

(01:48:16):
together. You're adults, and you'vegot a lot of lives hanging in the
balance with your decisions. So howcan you not be smart enough to just
be like, Okay, I haveto compromise. Yeah, I have my
values, but what's best for theAmerican public? Yeah, you would think
it's a pretty it's like an easyone, it's a no brainer. But
it's amazing to me. It's amazingto me how okay everyone is with that

(01:48:41):
not being the way their government leadersare, you know, as long as
they're side wins. It's like,it's just this really it's this really childish
eye for an eye shit, andit's gonna end up with a lot of
us wearing patches and being fucking blindat the end of it. You know,
not to not to throw a superChristian clothes on the pod cast,
but it is. I mean,you know that they say the eye for

(01:49:02):
an eye leaves the whole world blind. It's not. It's not just a
fun saying. I mean, that'sliterally the world we're living in now.
And Tulsi has a Tulsi's over atLocals, where I'm at and where this
show will be. Anybody who's watchingwants to support me over there, Josh
Jenny dot locals dot com. Tryingto get tie over there because you know,

(01:49:23):
you've got some great content to pumpout and you should definitely be getting
paid for it too. Yeah,I'll hit you up and we'll get I'll
get more details from you because Ido want to check it out. Yeah.
Hesitant about starting a Patreon because youknow, I don't. I don't
want to be the platformed. It'llhappen, it'll have That's that was one
of the reasons why I was alwaysI started a Patreon and then I was

(01:49:45):
like, oh god, right whenI started it was when the the Sargon
of a Cod thing happened where theytook his ship down because of something he
said on some as a guest onsomeone else's podcast. And so, you
know, just exam of today oflike I made a tweet about a fat
comedian doing a mayonnaise commercial, andthere are people on the internet who are

(01:50:08):
coming for everything I have, whichis nothing. So jokes on you,
motherfucker, as you're coming to takenothing. But yeah, but it's but
you know, I also don't wantto build anything for people to be able
to take either. And that's whatI love about locals is as this is
new and as this as I'm buildingit, I don't have to worry about
it being snatched out from underneath me. As I you know, as I

(01:50:30):
start to get a little momentum,yeah, well keep it up and thank
you for having me on