Ep. 105- PT Students, we are talking to you!!

PT Students, you do not want to miss this episode!! Dan is joined on the podcast by Anthony Celio and Jenna Salber to discuss how students can thrive on their clinical rotations. The three take two different approaches to assist with students creating behaviors to assist with both their clinical and professional development!

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
I'll start walking your way. You'll start walking
mine.
We'll meet in the middle, meet that old
Georgia fine.
They're really in the clinic.
Welcome to Therapists in Motion podcast,

(00:21):
brought to you by Spooner.
Welcome back to Therapists in Motion podcast. This
is Dan hosting once again, and I am
joined on the podcast
with another
new individual
and one individual returning for podcast number 2.

(00:45):
So let me first introduce my esteemed
colleague and dear friend who is joining us
on the podcast for the very first time,
missus Jenna Salber.
Hi, everyone.
And joining us for the 2nd time,
and I think back to back episodes,
is Anthony Celio.

(01:06):
Welcome back. Yes, sir. Thank you very much.
Excited.
So we have a really
interesting and engaging
topic today
that is gonna be a little different than
what we've ever done before.
So today, we're actually gonna talk to our
students.
And it's gonna be 2 part focused.

(01:27):
The first is gonna be
from our perspective
as
CI's
CCCE's
clinic director,
what we believe a student can do as
they enter into clinical rotation
to stand out
and impress

(01:48):
the the staff during that rotation.
Then we're gonna shift gears, and we're gonna
come from the perspective of a student
on what we think a student
should be looking for
as they enter the clinic to determine if
this is some place in the future they
would want to seek employment.

(02:09):
Sound like a good game plan?
Sounds good.
Alright. So
first question,
What are ways for a student to enhance
during a clinical rotation that they would potentially
receive a job offer?
Yeah. I think from my vantage point as
a previous clinic director, you know, observing students,

(02:33):
which it's important to really focus clinically on
what you're doing right like that's why you're
there you're there to learn but I feel
like if you get tunneled vision and all
you're really doing is focusing on the patients
your own CI,
you're missing a huge opportunity.
So myself as a clinic director, I would
always look at various aspects of how are
you how are you engaging with other staff

(02:53):
members?
Are you excited to learn more about the
company?
Are there
opportunities
outside of the clinic that you can engage
with,
learn, have social interactions with? Because for myself
as a clinic director, when I thought about
new grads, I was always big on will
over skill that, you know, hopefully, you're gonna
come out competent. There's gonna be various aspects

(03:14):
that you're gonna be successful at, but you're
still gonna be a new grad. Right? So
but if you have a a great personality,
if you're engaging with the team,
that's what's gonna excite me to bring you
on.
I think also seeking out some of the
extra things that Spooner offers, like mentorship opportunities
within and without the or outside of the

(03:35):
clinic,
being able to participate in athlete screens,
and then taking advantage of not just your
CI skill base, but also the other therapists
within your clinic.
Asking them questions about cases that you and
your CI might have, but other cases that
they might have that are interesting as well.
So let's go off of that in in
utilizing

(03:55):
the resources within the clinic.
Because
during show prep, we talked about how
there's a lot of students who will seek
a clinical rotation because of they have this
specialty practice.
And that's not a bad thing,
but there's still a lot to be learned
from,
going to an environment,

(04:17):
a clinic that has a lot of different
perspectives,
varying treatment approaches,
varying levels of
tenure within the profession. So, Jenna, in your
opinion, talk about why
and as a CCCE
here at Spooner,
what you look for when you see applications

(04:38):
come through for students who are looking to
do a clinical rotation, and they may make
mention of a specific
specialty practice?
If they make mention of a specific specialty,
I will try to make sure that they're
at a clinic that has that
exposure available to them, but also doesn't only
have that as their only exposure,

(05:00):
to make sure that they're getting a good
breadth of experience as opposed to just, I'm
only wanna see this one type of thing.
And then making sure to encourage them if
there are other areas that might interest them
to reach out to their CI, the clinic
director,
myself, and we can help to organize those
things for them while they're within the company.
Yeah. I think, Jenna, like, you bring up

(05:20):
a good point and, like, right now, obviously,
with Spooner, we have an initiative of sports
medicine. Right? And we get a lot of
students that are interested in that. And I
think we would all agree to be a
great sports medicine therapist, you still have to
be a great journalist orthopedic
therapist as well. So a lot of times,
I'll see students come in, and they'll get
excited about be being paired with one of
our sports med therapists,

(05:41):
and they're losing opportunity of learning from some
of the other tenured therapists that have great
manual skills, have great other aspects to the
repertoire
because they get a little too focused and
honed in on that specialty. So I think,
like, that's something to make sure that you're
aware of. Well, and I think that's that's
something really important for students
to really understand

(06:02):
is the vast majority of specialty practices
out there
still have a fundamental,
especially if we talk about the outpatient setting,
have a foundational
approach in orthopedic PT.
Jenna, you treat a lot of breast health,
but there are still orthopedic
related components
as you treat these individuals

(06:23):
who are going through breast cancer journeys in
various stages. They may still have glenohumeral
joint mobility issues or cervical spine joint
mobility issues that you are treating orthopedically
in addition
to helping them navigate the entire world and
the complexity that is in with breast health.
And I would argue too, if you wanna

(06:43):
be a good sports med therapist, you need
to be a fantastic orthopedic therapist
and able to be a good sports med
therapist. If you don't have the foundational skills,
I mean, you're not gonna get your patients
better ultimately, which is most important to athletes.
And for myself, like, you know, conducting interviews,
I would say it's very difficult for myself
sometimes to understand if someone can be a

(07:05):
team player is if in the interview, they
just said, like, I wanna be I wanna
be a sports medicine therapist. I'm, like, what
other aspects excites you about physical therapy? And,
like, oh, I just I want sports medicine.
I'm, like, I need more from you if
you're gonna be a part of this team
that, you know, I need you to have
that broad range of availability to treat what
still walks through the door. So when it
gets back to the question or or our
purpose of how can you enhance

(07:26):
your experience from our perspective,
make sure that you're broader in what what
you're thinking about. Did you just make up
a word? Yep. Broad of Broad.
Ring broad. I'm from
I'm from Louisiana, so I'm gonna make up
some words here.
Okay. So next question I have is you
talked about
how to help a student

(07:48):
kinda pick their head up and take advantage
of the opportunities
that may exist within a clinic or
within the company.
So what are some suggestions that you have
and very specific
suggestions
that you have to help them engage with
more of the clinic and the company regardless

(08:10):
of if they're in Spooner or not?
I think a couple
specific examples I would have is, 1, make
sure that you're not, quote, unquote, just clocking
in and clocking out. So whether that's, you
know, engaging, like, I'll observe students. Are they
engaging with others over lunch? Like, how long
after they finish for the day? Are they
staying and

(08:31):
engaging with other therapists? If there's opportunities outside
of the clinic, you know, we spoke to
our our athlete screens. We have student nights
that are you attending those? Because that's something
that we almost view as almost a requirement,
I would say, here at Spooner that we
want you to engage with this, and it's
gonna be very, very beneficial for you. So
if I see a student not take advantage

(08:52):
of that, it is gonna be something that's
gonna make me question,
are they a team player? Are they willing
to truly do what's necessary to build themselves
as a clinician?
And I think if you're not at a
spooner,
ask those questions of your CI, of your
clinic director, like, what are your mentorship opportunities
within the clinic and outside of the clinic?
What do you guys do for team bonding?

(09:14):
What do you do for, like, community events?
Are those things that I can help out
with? And the more that you show
that you're willing to participate in those things,
that makes you more marketable and hireable.
Yeah. I think that those are 2, you
know, really good tangible suggestions because
the vast majority of outpatient orthopedics are gonna
have

(09:34):
some sort of opportunity to do those things.
It could be a pro bono clinic opportunity.
It could be
Saturday morning sports medicine clinic where you're there
with other health care providers, and you're checking
out athletes who got hurt at competitions on
Thursday or Friday, and this is on a
Saturday morning. It could be, you know, traveling

(09:55):
with not your CI, but another therapist who's
going to cover an event, whether that's, you
know, a health fair
or a booth
at
a wellness opportunity within the community
or participate
and attend a a community lecture at a
local senior center. Right? I think there's opportunities

(10:16):
in the vast majority of clinical rotations
to do more than just what is occurring
with the 8 to 5
patient care aspect.
And I would say, you know, if you're
not gonna be someone who's gonna be a
yes person, so to speak, to all of
these,
Even just within your own clinic, asking more
about the company culture, the company values, the

(10:38):
initiatives. It seems easy, but to me, when
I had a student approach me proactively and
say, Anthony, I heard that you wanna your
Spooner wants to be a primary MSK provider.
What does that mean? How do you become
that in Spooner as a therapist? You know?
So I think that can even go a
long way,
having some of those deeper conversations about what

(10:58):
makes that specific company special and what they're
trying to achieve.
I think, also, kind of going a little
different direction. If you're not
going to something specifically
academically
related, like, still figuring out how you can
be there for your caseload patients
during your time, if that's attending a sporting
event,
if that's, you know, telling someone, hey, good

(11:19):
luck at your triathlon this weekend. Just making
sure that you are engaged with the patients
that you're seeing in the clinic. I think
that's a great strategy because
one of the things I was told by
an early mentor of mine was the more
you know about the patient, the more they're
gonna realize you care.
And going back to, Anthony, your point of
being really present and engaging

(11:42):
in all of the aspects,
that's the place to start is what Jenna
just mentioned is
be present with the patient.
And those little small comments, one, go a
long way with the patient. But
if your CI is present,
and that doesn't mean they're standing right next
to you, but if they're present, they're gonna

(12:02):
recognize those things and be like,
that's something different. Now the other thing I
will say about it is you gotta be
genuine and authentic. Mhmm. Because if you're not,
the vast majority of people are gonna see
through that. K?
Right? And then and the 2 of Jenna
and Anthony are both nodding their heads yes
to that. So I feel like that that
has to come across as

(12:24):
genuine. And, again, to Anthony's point, that doesn't
mean you have to say yes to everything,
but there's an opportunity
to start to showcase who you are and
why you are in this profession
because it is a service oriented profession, and
it can start with what seems as simple
as good luck on your triathlon or showing
up to a Friday night sporting event that
can go a long way.

(12:45):
Okay.
So before we transition to the
perspective of a student going into a clinical
rotation,
my brain goes to
we've talked about
first impression. We've talked about
seeking out additional opportunities.

(13:06):
But what about
when a student is presented with a difficult
situation?
What are the tips for
that student
when they are presented with a difficult situation?
Let's give the example
that the vast majority
of students encounter.
A patient doesn't want to work with you
anymore.

(13:28):
What tips do we have
to prepare them to manage that potential situation?
I feel like from my vantage point,
this first, you cannot take to heart as
a student. Like, that's what I always speak
to. It's like, don't take it personally. 99%
of the time, you probably did nothing wrong.
It's only because there's gonna be individuals that

(13:49):
because you have student physical therapists
behind your name
that they feel that there may be something
lacking in the care even though as a
CI,
we explain that we've spoken through the plan
of care with you, that we feel confident
in your abilities. And I think in that
situation, you really just need to be able
to to move on from it, speak with
your CI, make sure that you're

(14:11):
following up and discussing if there is any
advice that can come from the patient as
far as anything particularly maybe how you worded
something. Maybe it was a little bit as
far as your presence with them during the
exercise or lack thereof
and digest that, but it really is it's
gonna happen. I feel like with every student
I ever had, there was gonna be that

(14:31):
1 to 2 patients, every clinical rotation that
just for whatever reasons, like, they're a student.
I'd rather work with you. So I think
it's just you just can't take it to
heart. I think to just be open to
the feedback and make sure that
you are taking it, learning from it, and
utilizing that with your next patient. Don't take
it personally.
Just what can I do to get better
in my next interaction?

(14:52):
Yeah. I
I completely agree with that. I was adamantly
nodding my head when Anthony said, try not
to take it personally.
I realized that's easier said than done, because
it might be the first time in
your life where you were, like, quote, unquote,
not accepted,
and that could be difficult to swallow.
And Jenna and I went to PT school

(15:13):
together, and I we were both reflecting back,
and this is in no means
a a shot at the institution that we
grad graduated from. But that wasn't a conversation
that was had of let's talk about how
to prepare
yourself
going on this clinical rotation.
It was more, oh, I had talked to
somebody that was at that site and had
some insight

(15:35):
versus
really coming from the academia world of, hey.
Let's talk about how to manage the ebbs
and flows that may
occur on your clinical rotation. And if you
don't experience that, awesome. But if you do,
again, don't take it personally. Take it as
feedback.
Seek an opportunity to improve yourself
because

(15:55):
guess what? As licensed professionals, I'm sure you
have the 2 of you has encountered this
because I definitely have. Or even as a
licensed professional, a patient looks at me and
says, I don't wanna work with you anymore.
It's just gonna happen in the world of
health care. No. I mean, I'm glad you
mentioned that because I was even gonna say,
like, to take it one step further as
a therapist who's been out 10 years, even

(16:17):
early on, there'll be moments as 3 to
4 years, and a patient would find out
that there was a more senior therapist with
12 or 13 years and like I want
to go work with them and it was
literally because they associated the years of experience
that they were gonna get better more quickly
because of that. So it even it even
can happen in that situation as well.
I think too it's important from a CI

(16:37):
perspective. You can we know our we should
know as therapists, know our patients well enough
to know
who might be a little bit more particular
about working with a student, who might not.
And I'm not gonna put my student in
a situation to fail, so I will keep
those patients where this is someone we're not
gonna share versus we can share patient b
just fine. It won't be an issue.
I think that's a great great point. And

(17:01):
little blue light special, we are gonna do
a podcast that talks about
some expectations that we believe student
CI should have of engaging with a student,
and I I'm sure Jenna will bring that
up again about ensuring that we are setting
our students up for success
and and giving
you know, have giving students the opportunity to

(17:23):
work with patients who will
allow them to critically think,
but also
not have this just approach where they're like,
oh my gosh. I can't see. I'm working
on this. Why am I doing this? What,
like, what am I even doing?
That's just not beneficial. Us as licensed professionals
have those patients, and we can make the
educated decision to say, you know, baby, this

(17:44):
is not student appropriate.
Alright. Any last thoughts before we change perspectives
within this pod?
No. Not that I can think of. I
don't think so, mate. Okay. Awesome. So now
we're gonna flip it, and we're gonna go
looking as a student walking into a clinical
rotation.
What would be suggestions

(18:04):
or things we would encourage you all
to be looking for and mindful of when
you're entering a clinical rotation?
Okay. So Anthony, let's start with you.
Yes, and to take this a little different
route once again, you know, we're speaking Beyond
I think the clinical aspects here, right? We're
looking at culture. We're looking at fit say
you're going into a clinic a company that

(18:26):
you are really excited about that has a
great reputation
and you want to figure out is this
somewhere that you'd potentially want to work?
What I always kind of say look at
some small different little aspects of things and
that can go into
as specifically as how quickly then do the
therapists
leave when they're done for the day because
in the teams that I've really enjoyed and

(18:47):
had
I would say like the funnest working with
it's going to be we're hanging out 30
minutes after we're done because we're just chit
chatting about things having a great day. So
what does that look like? I would say
how do they handle stress
because there's going to be stressful moments throughout
the day multitudes of times.
How do you see therapists interact with therapists?

(19:07):
How do you see therapists interact with texts
in the front office and vice versa because
that will tell you the culture of that
clinic and how close they are and the
dynamics of such
and let's be quite frank, like do you
want to work with a team that can
handle those situations when they arise
or a team that it's gonna be fractioned
and nobody talks when there's stressful moments.

(19:28):
I also think too, do you work in
a silo as a therapist and a tech
on your own, or do you work together
as your team? Are you constantly
dialoguing about different patients? Am I talking to
Anthony's patients or just my patients? What does
that look the whole
vibe of the clinic versus just me, my
student, and my patients?
Yeah. I mean, I think that too, like,

(19:48):
when I've walked into
various clinics and there's moments where I'll joke
with them where, you know, you walk in
and it just kind of feels off and
you and you'll see a therapist
over on a table with someone someone out
on the floor and there's not much engagement
and it's like, but then once that occurs,
that's fun. You're learning with each other. I
always say it's like a big party, everybody
getting better together
when you're having therapists integrated

(20:11):
into the flow with patients. So that's a
good point, Jenna. I think too, if you're
seeing
patients interacting with other patients, that's what, like,
really builds the vibe. Because people are, like,
having a good time.
And it's not just my patients with my
patients, it's my patients with my colleagues' patients.
And everyone's just here to, you know, have
a good time, but get better.
Yeah. I think,
you know, I'm trying to think back to

(20:31):
when I was a student, which is a
long time ago. But
Yeah. You're old. Yeah. Thanks. Hey. You're only
1 you're younger than me, so careful.
Walking into a clinic,
just
even if you've walked into that clinic as
a student and you're on your 5th week,
try and walk in with a fresh approach.

(20:53):
You know, on the the first day back
on week 5, walk through and be like,
okay,
I really want to get a sense of
what I what a patient experiences when they
walk in here. What's the energy at the
front desk?
Am I greeted when I walk through the
front door
by the front office staff?
Am I greeted by

(21:13):
the patients who are in there? Are they
smiling?
Are they sweating?
Are they working hard? Or are they just
kinda gone through the motions, and they're they
look like they don't enjoy being there? Because
if they don't enjoy being there, maybe the
staff doesn't enjoy being there. And so I
think that's that that's something that I did
a couple times on clinical rotations on my
longer longer rotations was like,

(21:36):
Man, I walk in the front door, and
I'm greeted with a smile.
And the
professional staff is excited to see me.
That says a lot,
not only as a student, but also when
you become a licensed professional and these, you
know, we are now your colleagues and vice
versa, like, are you walking into a clinic
where there is people are excited to see

(21:58):
you. They're happy that you're at work. You're
happy that you're at work. It's not like,
crap. Right? It's it's that
you can almost feel the energy
positively or negatively right when you walk through
the front door. And a lot of it
comes down to, are they smiling? What's the
energy of the patients? No different than what
Jenna mentioned of, do patients know patients?

(22:19):
Does do I know Jenna's patients? Do I
know Anthony's patients? Do they know my patients?
Be really keenly aware of that as a
student because it will tell you
so much, not only about your CI
in the clinic, but to potentially the entire
company, whether they have one clinic or they
have
625 clinics.

(22:40):
Yeah. I mean, it should be like cheers.
Like, everybody knows your name. Right? You walk
in and everybody's excited. And I would always
tell students it's like joking to your point.
Like, yeah, when my alarm goes off some
mornings, do I wish that I didn't have
to get out of bed? But the moment
that I walk through that door, gosh, like,
I'm so excited to be around my colleagues
and with these patients just because we're having

(23:00):
such a dynamic,
you know, engaging
environment with each other.
Another thing I would suggest that students look
at, and it was kind of mentioned, but
are there conversations that stimulate thought?
Because
one of the things I really look for
in

(23:21):
in students, even though I'm I'm talking from
a from a student perspective, but
is, are there conversations that make me or
make my student clinically think?
Because if you're in an environment where they
aren't asking thought provoking questions and they aren't
stimulating
professional
advancement

(23:41):
on
a informal
opportunity, meaning it's not a lunch hour dedicated
to Anthony given an in service service or
Jenna teaching us about, you know, a joint
mobilization or an exercise or something along those
lines. Like, it's an
informal
impromptu
clinical
discussion,

(24:02):
that might be something that's like, wait.
Is that something that's really happening? Are they
evidence informed practitioners?
Are they thinking about why they're doing that,
why they're going along that exercise progression,
or
why that manual therapy technique did not
provide the desired result that they anticipated?
So that's something else that I would in

(24:24):
really encourage students to be keenly aware of.
And too, for your CI to not be
too I don't know if proud is the
right word, but
to not humble enough to ask for advice
of another therapist, not ask for help when
they're unsure about something.
I mean, I feel like that happens all
the time in our clinic where someone double

(24:44):
checks a special test, or, hey, what do
you think of this end feel? Or how
else can I progress their exercises? I'm in
a rut here. All of those little things
that happen throughout the day that make you
better, which then make your patients better. Yeah.
I mean, a 100%. One of the things
that, like, I would always, use as an
example,
10 years out, and we have a therapist
at Awataki, Eric Brown, shout out that

(25:05):
lateral shifts kick my butt. And it's like,
I don't know what it is about them,
but I just get a brain frog during
the eval and then I'm like, how do
I set up a plan of care for
this and I go to Eric
every single time, and it's like, you know,
just because quote, unquote, the 10 years versus
the 5 years, but that's something he's so
skilled at. And I think, like, the vulnerability,

(25:25):
like, to your point, like, saying, you know,
you wanna see our therapist not too proud
to go ask for help that I would
always use as an example as far as
our personal, like, dynamic and culture at I
was lucky as far as how we all
operate together to make each other better. I'll
add to that. Student,
be keenly aware if your CI is asking

(25:45):
you
what have they taught you in school?
What the what'd they teach you about the
literature related to a lateral shift? Are there
any special tests that we can do? It's
been a long time since I've been in
that didactic world, And I honestly, shout out
to my last ICE clinical
student, Danielle.
She did a phenomenal job when I asked

(26:06):
her clinical based questions from her didactic program
to be able to bring that information to
me. So, student,
be aware. Is your CI asking you
to help educate
them?
Because, again, I think it goes to the
humility,
and it also goes to the point that,
you know, that you pass your board exam.

(26:27):
You're our colleague.
And so are they already starting to treat
you as
their colleague?
Yeah. A 100% agree with that. Which
is really hard to do sometimes,
but,
really, that's part of being an adult learner
as a CI. And what's gonna help our

(26:47):
profession get better is realizing things that Jenna
and I were taught and Anthony were taught
in PT school are now outdated.
It's been a hot minute since we've been
in the the the academic world.
And to be honest, we can't always read
the most current literature,
but students may be getting that and be
able may be able to provide an article
that was published in 2023

(27:08):
that I hadn't seen. And they're like, here.
Here it is. This is why we should
be doing it this way. Awesome.
Another shout out to one of my students,
Josh Davis. TriStar Strength and Rehab out in
the middle of nowhere in Tennessee. Yeah. It
is really in the middle of nowhere.
But he brought principles of strength training with
my geriatric patients, and he wasn't afraid to
put a 20, 30, 50, 80 pound load

(27:30):
in their body because he knew what the
literature stated. And now that's a regular part
of my program. So if it wasn't for
him, I wouldn't be doing it. Alright. So
we're gonna kind of wrap up both components.
So the perspective
of
us as CI's
clinic directors, CCCE,
and perspective from a student

(27:52):
going preparing to go to a clinical rotations.
Anthony,
give us your final thoughts first. Yeah. So
I would say my final thought on the
student perspective is
when you're observing truly, do they believe in
what they're doing, and do they believe in
each other? And it seems so simple,
but if they have that high level engagement
in each other,

(28:12):
most likely it's gonna be an actual an
excellent cultural
group of individuals
that are really looking to build something special.
And I would say students, you're being see
myself

(28:34):
see myself being after I graduate?
I think that's those are both really important
components,
both from both perspectives,
from us as CIs of looking at the
student of how well are we engaging with
each other. Are we doing this genuinely?
Does it come across genuinely? Because our students

(28:54):
gonna be paying attention to what we are
doing and how we are interacting.
And on the flip side, students,
as if if I put my student hat
on, I wanna be looking, is this some
place I could see myself
dedicating
years
to working there
and serving this community

(29:15):
and progressing our profession
to
showcase the unique skill set that us as
physical therapists have.
Alright. Well,
thank you, Jenna, for your first podcast. Thanks,
Dan. And I know you don't love being
on video, so thank goodness it's a podcast.
Perfect.

(29:35):
That's why I'm on a podcast. I have
a face for podcasting. Anthony, thank you for
number 2 podcast. We look forward to having
you back for more. And as always, if
you have any questions, comments,
feedback, or topic suggestions, please do not hesitate
to reach out to us at therapists in
motion at spoonert.com,
and thank you for listening.

(29:58):
Thank you for listening.
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