Buying Habits with Tracy McCubbin | Ep 337

Hi Friends,
Joining me today is Tracy McCubbin, founder of dClutterfly. Not only has she been in the organizing space for almost 2 decades, she is also the author of several books, including her latest book "Make Space for Happiness. How to stop attracting clutter and start magnetizing the life you want." I invited Tracy on the show to discuss the correlation between clutter and our buying habits.

During our conversation Tracy walks us through 7 clutter magnets that make us unable to let go of possessions that we don’t want, use, or love in order to make real change.

1. True Connection - The human connection we get when shopping feels like it’s filling that void. While we may be engaging with others, the retail transaction isn’t a substitute for the true connections we all need.
2. Self-Confidence - Self-confidence is a muscle that we all have the capability to build, and it starts by believing that we all bring an individual spark to the world—a flavor that is uniquely us. When we need a boost of self-confidence, we need to focus on all the things we can do for ourselves.
3. Free Time - All the gadgets we purchase to ‘save time’ are actually standing in the way of what we really want to be doing.
4. Big Love - Everyone wants to feel loved. Yet for some people, it’s easier to attract piles of stand-ins than the feeling itself. DON’T COLLECT—CONNECT!
5. Self-Respect - The knowledge that we bring unique attributes into the room, even without any status symbols to telegraph them.
6. Real Purpose - Nothing gives us more sense of Real Purpose than being of service or sharing our knowledge, kindness, and time to make someone else’s life better. Magnetize this feeling instead of a closet full of office supplies.
7. Lasting Wisdom - We often feel the need to keep evidence of our beliefs in case they’re challenged. Newspapers, magazines, and books we’ve read can take up entire rooms because we feel if something is discarded, it could be forgotten.

My hope is that throughout this conversation you will begin to think about your own buying habits and how you can make lasting change in your life where you need it most.

BONUS ALERT! *We are also doing a giveaway for Tracy’s book!

To Enter: go to apple podcast, leave us a review then take a screenshot and tag @thisorganizedlifepodcast and @dclutterfly on IG. The first 3 entries will receive a copy of Tracy’s new book in the mail!

Special thanks to today’s sponsor DeniseAlbright: use code SIMPLY30 at checkout to receive 30% off your entire order!

CONNECT WITH TRACY: WEBSITE | INSTAGRAM | TIKTOK

OTHER LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: MATT PAXTON EPISODE: “AM I A HOARDER?”

TRACY’S BOOK RECOMMENDATIONS: THE TOOLS by Phil Stutz LOVE PAMELA, A MEMOIR OF PROSE, POETRY AND TRUTH

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to This Organized Life. Ifyou're a mom, wife, or coffee
lovers seeking advice on how to reduceclutter and reclaim time, look no further
than your host, Laurie Palau,founder Simply Be Organized, an author of
hot Mess, a practical guide togetting organized. For a lot of people,
clutter is their dirty little secret,but it doesn't have to be.
Each week, we will share practicaltips, chat with experts, and provide

(00:23):
strategies on how to keep you organized. I hope that by sharing our stories
you feel a little less alone andmore empowered to tackle the areas that are
holding you back. So let's getstarted, everybody, and welcome to today's
episode of This Organized Life podcast.I am your host, Laurie Palau,

(00:45):
and I hope that you are havingan amazing week. I am really excited
to talk to today's guests and bringher out. I love talking to og
organizers. I love talking to otherauthors who have a different perspective of how
to look at clutter. I thinkit's so important to be able to learn

(01:07):
different strategies from different people and reallyapply different kind of schools of thought to
how we're approaching our stuff, becauseagain, we can all get caught so
much up in the like ctical weedsof what are we keeping, what are
we getting rid of? Where arewe putting our stuff? Are we going
vertical? And all? That's great, but it's really so important. And

(01:30):
again, if you've been like alistener of our show for any amount of
time, you know that the psychologyof clutter is something that I have really
drove into for the better part ofmy career. And so when I have
the opportunity to talk to other peoplewho are really looking where your clutter stems
from and be able to identify thatas a way for you to then maybe

(01:55):
change your behavior moving forward in apositive way, I love showing shining light
on them. And so joining metoday is Tracy mccovett. And Tracy is
the founder of declutterfly. And notonly has she been in the organizing space
for like almost two decades, soshe and I are like right there,
we've seen it all. But they'vebeen the author of several books, including

(02:19):
her latest book, which we're goingto talk about today. I have it
right here if you're watching on YouTube, you can say picture of It's called
Make Space for Happiness, and itwe're going to talk all about it,
but she talks all about these differentwhat she calls clutter magnets, and it's
really interesting as she walks through it. And I love the book. I
read it cover to cover for reals, and she just shares a lot of

(02:43):
anecdotal stories of her experiences with clientsand just under unpacking kind of the different
nuances of where they were struggling andhow they had different breakthroughs. So it
was if you're somebody out there that'slistening that might feel like you're just destined
for just organization or you have yetto find the strategy that works for you,

(03:06):
you're going to want to lean intothis episode. So, without further
ado, let me welcome my friendTracy mcconvin to the show. Welcome Tracy,
Hi, Laurie. What a greatintro, And I want to thank
you because an og like you,I feel the same way. I feel
like everybody needs as many tools intheir tool belt as they can get.

(03:30):
And sometimes what one organizer or oneexpert says resonates with somebody in a different
way. So I'm like, readeverything, learn everything, and as you
move through life and your relationship toyour stuff changes, it's different if you're
a young mom versus your parents justpassed away. So I am so excited

(03:51):
to talk to you, and Ireally appreciate like we're all just doing the
best we can and let's learn andgrow and get better. Yeah, and
for other people that are out there, like I also love the similarities,
Like when I'm reading your book andI'm like, oh, I do that
too. Yeah, it's just thatlike reinforcement of Okay, like there is

(04:15):
something like we're onto something, rightif enough people are saying it, there's
got to be some element of liketruth to it or oh I do this,
but I've never looked at it orapproached it with this particular From this
perspective as somebody who mentor other professionalorganizers and champions other people and really subscribes
to building this community of organizers,I think it really is great to be

(04:40):
able to shine light on people whoare also in a similar space. And
again, if you're somebody out therethat is struggling, looking at people that
have different methodologies to find what worksfor you is so important because again,
some people are like, oh mygosh, Marie Condor changed my life and

(05:00):
that's great, and other people arelike that is not my jam. And
then there's something for everybody, andI love it. Okay, now I
want you to fill in the blanksbecause I gave top Line overviewteller listeners,
in your own words, a littlebit about you. Absolutely. So,
I'm one of those I didn't startmy organizing business till my forties to right

(05:21):
when I turned forty, and Iwas one of those people that you had
not been doing this for three decades, almost seventeen years. Really now I'm
great, Damn, girlfriend, youlook great. Thank you. I just
got married, so I'm very happy. Anyway. I'm sorry to interrupt,
but yeah, when I so,I had been a personal assistant, I

(05:44):
had been executive assistant. I've beenin the typing pool, I'd run small
businesses, I'd done all these things, and I started just helping people.
I didn't even know it was abusiness. I didn't even know it was
a thing. I was like,oh, your garage is messy, Yeah,
I'm really good at that, oroh your grandma passed away, let
me help you go through her stuff. And I joke that my little flip
phone started blowing up, and afriend of mine was like, this is

(06:09):
a business, and I was like, no, this is just how I
help people, and he's no,I think it's really a business. So
I made a little website and hadmy little station wagon and that was seventeen
years ago. I now I havetwelve employees. Now we have trucks,
we have a warehouse. It's Ilove what I do. And also for
people who are out there that arelike in this next chapter of their life,

(06:31):
like it's never too late to start. It's never too late to start.
And I think that also sometimes whenyou clear the clutter in your home,
all of a sudden, you're like, oh, I want to do
something different. It breathes you upto see all the opportunities. Absolutely,
absolutely, and again I love Ilove hearing people's origin stories because not only

(06:56):
am I just curious, because Ithink stories are and people are interested,
but I think it's it is inspiringfor people that are out there that going,
oh, wow, whatever nugget theytake away of Wow, I'm good
at organizing, or I'm good atfill in the blank. I didn't realize
I could make a living doing it, or wow, I'm forty and not
that's old, because it's not.But people are like, maybe I want

(07:19):
to make a change in my life. Maybe maybe I'm unhappy in my current
job, or maybe my kids are. I'm in a different season of life
and I'm looking at do something onmy own. So I think there's so
much of value again in just hearinglike where people come from and how they
started, and also the spectrum.And we've talked about this on our show

(07:40):
ton like the landscape of the organizingworld looks so different. Seventeen years ago
there was no social media or verylimited and I mean I always tell the
story of my girls who are nowlike nineteen and twenty two, used to
tell people that I was in thebusiness of flyers. What did your mom
do? She's just flyers, becauselegitimately make up a pretty word document,

(08:03):
like there's a canva. I wouldmake up a pretty word document and stick
them in people's mailboxes, letting thempeople know what I did. And I
would drive around with my kids intheir car seats and they were like,
where's your mom just flyers? Ohmy god, Laurie. That yeah,
No, seventeen years ago, nobodyknew what it was. Nobody. And
that's what I think is so excitingabout this profession too, is like we

(08:24):
are now realizing, like now thatwe're in the middle of the Silver Tsunami
and we've got like all these peoplewho are in the Sandwich generation and raising
little kids and dealing with aging parentslike this, what the service that organizers
provide is more important than ever,Like people need this help. We're not.
It didn't just blow up because wewanted it too. It blew up

(08:46):
because people need the help. Soif somebody's out there and like thinking about
it as a business, it's greatand it's and more and more people are
understanding like, oh, I needthis help. I can't do this on
my own, and there's someone whocan help me. Fantastic. Yeah,
absolutely, So I want to talkbecause I'm a little bit of a data

(09:09):
nerd, like I love statistics andespecially just to back that up, right,
I'm a very let's thank so yourfriends person, And so you talk
about it, and I'm just goingto actually just read the quote because I
put it right for me, saysas you talk a lot in the book
about pandemic purchases. Right, there'sa whole like section about that, and
so it's really telling I'm gonna obviouslywe're gonna have all the links and everything

(09:31):
later, but as America attempts torecover from pandemic purchases that have left our
homes full of stuff. It's nosurprise that two thirds of American two thirds
of Americans admitted to having too manythings in their homes, especially due to
excessive online shopping during the pandemic.And again, we talk about a lot

(09:52):
of different contributing factors to the accessof stuff right or not being organized.
Let me put it that we're busyand over schedule, we don't have the
time to do things, we don'thave the right strategies. But then there
is also just the cold hard factsof we're buying at a rate because of

(10:13):
ease, because of comfort, becauseof all these things, and so we're
the result is all of this stuffwith no place to put it. And
so I'm I want you to reallyjust riff and elaborate on that, because
that's a really big and walk.Absolutely, I think that we can't talk
about decluttering and getting organized if we'renot talking about our acquisition and our consuming.

(10:39):
You've been doing this. Clients lookat you with like big like deer
in headlights and they're like, Idon't know how all this stuff got in
my house, and I'm like,you brought it in, you or someone
in your house purchased it and broughtit in. So I realized after doing
this for so long, and Istarted to see, especially during the pandemic,
clients slipping and calling me and saying, remember all that stuff that we

(11:00):
decluttered, I bought it all overagain. And plus we see those towers
of packages on people's doorsteps, likethe Amazon trucks and the blue bins full
of cardboard boxes, and it reallyjust occurred to me, like we have
to talk about our consumption. Wehave to talk about what we're buying.
And we are shopping. We canshop twenty four hours. You don't even

(11:24):
have to put pants on to shopanymore. You just roll over, grab
your phone. And so we're justthe shopping is out of control and it's
resulting in so much clutter, indisorganization in people's houses. And I think
another big component is that we're beingmarketed to all the time. Literally was

(11:46):
waiting was It's one of my biggestthings because I and I'm somebody who I
feel like it's pretty disciplined when itcomes to consumerism, and even I find
myself on like I might need thoseflip flops. They look right. Yes,
they like you said, you can'tstop it the way you unless you're

(12:09):
like, I'm not going on socialmedia or not. There's so much,
but you have to be so rigid. One of the things I used to
tell people all the time and Istill do it is like unsubscribed from catalogs,
right, like back in the day, right, you don't know you
needed until all of a sudden thecatalogs says, oh, we're doing this
spring special, and then all ofa sudden you see it. So to
not only avoid the paper clutter,I used to tell people just unsubscribe,

(12:31):
just don't even get it. Yeah, But nowadays it's just being like you
said, it's marketed to you throughevery time we turn on our computers.
And it also yeah, absolutely,And used to be back in the olden
days when we had three TV channels, you knew the commercials were at twelve
after and eighteen after and you gogot a glass of water. But now

(12:52):
in social media, it's this expressionlike parasocial bestie. Right, People that
you know online and you think youhave a relationship with you with them,
and then they start telling you tobuy something and you're like, oh,
my best friend is telling me thismascara is great, So all of a
sudden, you're not. We're losingour finance, our media literacy, we're

(13:13):
losing the fact of this is acommercial, this isn't a friend, and
that's contributing to our consumption, andthen we're not thinking about what do we
do with it when we get ridof it. That's well, yes,
it's so funny because I just thetime that this errors, it will have
already come out. But I justdid for Earth Day. I did a

(13:33):
recycling responsibly because I think a lotof people we talk a lot here about
that shame that people have had alot of times we'll see people holding onto
things out of guilt because they don'twant to contribute more to a landfill or
more to the problem, and sothey wind up just holding onto things again

(13:54):
for the wrong reasons. But Ithink it's important to feel back the layers
and shine a light on how canwe nip this in the bud moving forward?
Right, you can't changer you've alreadydone, But how what can we
do now to be more proactive inour decision making? And you talk a
lot about these different clutter magnets,and wondering if maybe now's a good time

(14:18):
for you to just walk through eachof those and we can just give a
little bit of description through them.Yeah, totally, And I think you've
been doing this for a long time. So we all know that basically our
clients, the people, everybody,they have the same stories, right,

(14:39):
like our clients who keep things,that's the same. I can't. I
paid good money for it. Itwas my grandma's right, So there are
these universal stories. So what Istarted to see is that people had these
universal stories about why they were shopping, like there was something missing inside of
them and they were shopping. Andlike you, I am a data nerd,
I am a science nerd. I'mlike, why is this happening?

(15:01):
So I did a deep, deepdive on basically the science of shopping why
do we shop? And one ofthe things that I learned is that which
makes when again if that's the amazingthing about facts When you learn them,
you're like, that's why it's thatway. We're biologically made up to be
hunters and gatherers. So back whenwe were roaming the planes and you found

(15:26):
an apple tree or you found arabbit, you got a hit of dopamine
to pick the apples or kill therabbit and save it for winter. What's
happened is we haven't evolved out ofthat. So now when you go to
target, you get the same hitof dopamine as if you'd killed a wooly
mammoth for your family. So weget this hit of dopamine. Shopping makes

(15:48):
us feel better and only lasts aboutseventeen or twenty seconds, and then you're
like, I need another one,and then I need another one, and
so we keep buying to get thatfeeling again. And I identified in the
clatter magnets is what do we thinkthat's missing in us? And what we're
using shopping to fill it up?But how can we fill it up other
ways? So one of the firstones is true connection, like when you

(16:12):
don't feel connected. I just dida we're working with clients right now.
Lovely older couple, so sweet,sheep fully admitted she's in her seventies,
fully like, I have a shoppingproblem. It came up during the pandemic.
I've never done this before. Andas we started to talk, she
was like, I retired of myjob from thirty five years, which was

(16:33):
I went to an office every dayand saw everybody. I stopped going to
church in person. I now goon the computer, and I stopped playing
bridge. So basically all of herconnecting with her people was taken away and
she was trying to fill it withshopping. That's a big one, being
connected. Here's another one, strongself confidence. If they slap on anti

(16:56):
aging on a problem, I waslike, yeah, we're like same generation
is oh wait a second back inright, right? My graves change,
my cellular disappear whatever exactly. Andthe funny thing is, I always joke,
don't we want aging? Because isn'tthe opposite of aging dead? Don't
we want to keep keep aging?So there's those products that play on our

(17:19):
self confidence. There's the things webuy to magnetize free time. Right,
All the gadgets that everybody buys tosave themselves time A big one. I
see these are my grandparents, Myparents big love buying gifts to get someone's
love. I have little nieces andnephews, and I start very young.

(17:41):
I used to go visit them andI would bring little presents and I put
it in my suitcase. And thenthe last couple of times I went like
they just I walked in the doorand they just dove on the suitcase and
I was like, oh, yeah, I did this. This isn't them,
this is me, right, SoI stopped for the last couple of
trips, I haven't brought anything,and like, oh my god, we're
so happy to see you. AndI'm like, I was training them to

(18:03):
expect a gift from me every timeI showed up. I want them to
be excited that I'm there and spendtime with them. So I just stopped,
and you know what, they haven'tasked for one, they haven't missed
it. I was doing it becauseI was like, oh, this love
is transactional. And I think fora lot of people. Again, and
if people are like familiar with differentlove languages, a lot of people will

(18:23):
say their love languages gifts and theylike to expressings and material ways. And
I don't never want to shame somebodyfor doing it, but I think you
have to also. I think that'sa very common one for a lot of
people, where we're going to rewardour kid for getting a good grade and
we're going to buy them something,or we're going to use your stuff as

(18:45):
a punishment to take it away,and I think that using material things that's
a weapon. Yes, I don'tneed to be overly dramatic, but it
just sends a mixed message as opposedto something being and the earth things that
we used that are for pure entertainmentand enjoyment. I just celebrate my birthday
yesterday and it was nice to getthe gifts, thank you, and it

(19:08):
was nice. Like I got thispretty necklace that I'm wearing from my friend
and I like, I love it. But you know what I'm saying,
and I think that I think thepoint with all of this, with clutter,
with getting organized, with shop,with all of it, it's about
being aware. It's about being intentional. It's about finding a balance. I'm

(19:29):
not saying don't ever shop. I'mlike you, I love pretty things,
like I love a housepul of prettythings like I'm never saying that. But
when it gets out of whack,right like I have. They see this
with grandparents all the time. Theyover buy and then they buy things that
like don't fit in the grandkids,you know, and then they get their
feelings hurt because I bought this thingfor you I had. I was at

(19:52):
a clients recently and the in lawshad bought all three kids little not little.
They were like three feet four feetlong little get in them araplanes So
they were like four feet long bythree feet wide, and they monogram their
names on them. And my clientwas like, we literally don't have room.

(20:17):
I don't know where these are goingto go. My kids don't really
like them. And it turned intoa thing because the grandmother was like,
Ben, I bought this expensive thing, and what's about. Yes, gift
giving and it may be your lovelanguage, but when it gets out of
whack, when you're leaning into that'sthe that's where we have to pay attention.
So for somebody that's listening out there, and I know I want to

(20:40):
get back and let you finish walkingthrough them, but I think this is
an important thing for somebody that's listeningout there. That's yes, that is
the story of my life. Everytime my mother in law comes over or
my mom comes over, they're bringingall of this stuff. I know what
I've done and I when my kidswere growing up. But what's your advice
to people of like how do theynavigate that? Because I was just the

(21:00):
person where I was. I'm avery direct communicator, so I would be
like, yeah, we're not doingthat, but not everybody is in comfortable
having those conversations. I'm with you. I'm like, yeah, just say
it like you just say it fromthe beginning. And also I want to
take a moment. Yeah, Ijust I've been saying this. If you
get if your child gets invited toa birthday party and the invitation and says

(21:21):
no gifts, don't get gifts yep, amen, thing like exactly. So
I always say with grandparents to notonly just say hey, that doesn't we
don't have room for that, ordon't do that, but then offer you
know what the grandkids really want,They really want to spend time with you.
Can you come over and teach themhow to make your favorite cookie recipe?

(21:42):
Can you take them say frame itin such a way that it's not
that just we didn't know, wedon't want the gift, but they want
to spend time with you. Canyou take them to the library. Can
you read your favorite book with them? Offer up a way for the parents
the grandparents to connect without the stuff. And also there's other things like that

(22:02):
I recommend, like in terms oflike practical stuff. And again we're where
there's so if if your child,Like I had one daughter that was really
just sports and one that was reallyinto music. And I mean, and
especially with things being so expensive,saying what could you buy or like a
week camp or especially if they're gonnaif they are and I'm fucking these are

(22:25):
for people that are like, wewant to use a monetary expression, yes
something, or we want to wehave the money, the means and we
want to do that. Ranny,can you get something that there would be
doing anyway? And that would justadd to it and say, hey,
you know this camp that this weeklong camp that you wanted to go to,
my mom and pop up are sendingyou to that camp. There's so

(22:48):
many ways that if you want toexpress it. But I think a lot
of times people feel unsure of becausethey don't want to hurt some of these
feelings and they don't know how toapproach it. But maybe providing some alternatives,
totally said, is really a wayto do it. And I think
if you're dealing with a heavy giftgiver, right, someone who clearly something's

(23:14):
going on with them that they're feelingthat, but to just to be honest
and say you are so generous withour kids and your grandkids. They love
you so much. Things are expensiveand we're having a bit of a tough
time, ken Well would be soappreciated. Is like all of her softball
equipment or right hamp. That wouldbe something that would be used and left
like a toy is gonna be playedwith and tossed aside, like this.

(23:36):
My grandmother sent me like you sentme. Every year she paid for me
to go to sleepaway camp. Itwas like some of the best experiences of
my life. My family couldn't affordit. It was something she loved to
do, like I to this day, like sleepaway camp was the greatest thing.
And I know, still in myfifties that my grandmother contributed to that.
And I still remember that. Icannot remember one present she bought me.

(24:00):
I know, and I think fora lot of people it is just
it's just second nature, like you'renot thinking about it, and it just
this is what we do. It'ssomebody's birthday, you buy them a present,
like a tangible material gift. AndI'm also and I also want to
say this, I really want tonormalize exactly what you're saying, that it's
okay to ask people exactly what theywant. It's okay to tell people exactly

(24:23):
what you want, Like, we'renot mind readers. I don't want people
wasting their money on me. AndI'm with you. I love getting presents
and I love when people are thoughtful. But also it's okay to help people
out, like this thing that youshould know exactly what I want and get
it right, and I should getthe like it's setting everybody up for failure.
And so I'm like, let's justnormalize talking about it. I love

(24:47):
it. I love it, Okay, so let's get back. So the
next one I love is about selfrespect. So yeah, I want to
just talk about Yeah, this issuch a big one. This is people
shopping labels, buying, have tohave the newest Louis Vuitton, have to
have the this, have to toshow their self respect. And the thing

(25:07):
about this one that's so interesting tome is, so is it like status.
You will call that status, yeah, but I call that phrase yeah.
Yeah, I've called status clutter andbuy, Yes, exactly. And
the thing is it never comes fromthe stuff, right you never you can
have all the stuff about the stuff. It's never really rarely you know what

(25:29):
it's Yeah exactly, So yes,exactly status. It's totally that this is
a really interesting one and I've beenseeing a big increase in this in the
age of social media and Etsy isreal purpose where people are searching for their
real purposes and they're buying all thethings. So they're like, I'm supposed

(25:51):
to be a knitter, and theygo and they buy all and now I
got to open an Etsy store,and now I gotta when I think there's
such this pressure now with the ideathat you have to have a side hustle
and if you bake cookies and youdon't post it, did you really?
Were they delicious? And so Ithink that sometimes we do things because we
just love to do them, andthat's okay, right, Like you can

(26:12):
love to bake without running a cookiebusiness, right you would love to take
pictures without being a professional photographer.Now, I'm all as an entrepreneur and
same as you. I'm all forturning your passion to a profession if that's
what you want to do, Tony, Right, Like, we're here for
it. But sometimes having a hobbyor something that you enjoy doing is enough.

(26:37):
And as long as you're doing it, I think that's we don't have
to one up exactly. So myone of my best friends called me the
other day and her mother super cutetwenty five years ago and she got married
her I hosted her bridal shower andher mother gave me a hand crouched blanket
that I still have, so formy wedding two weeks ago, her mom

(26:57):
made a new one, which isso sweet. So she's, oh,
Frankie's back. She's knitting all theseblankets again. They're so great. She's
her mom's in her late seventies,I think, and she's I'm telling her
she's got to open an Etsy store, and I'm like, okay, stop,
do you want to run a Natzystore because she's not going to be
able to do it. Like sheshe's just making so many blankets, And

(27:18):
I'm like, why don't you callthe local like chemotherapy or dialysis place.
They need blankets all the time,the babies in the nick you there are
places that blankets can go that itdoesn't have to turn into a business,
because I'm like, your mom inher late seventies is not going to run
a Natsy store, and honestly,that's not what it's about for her.
And she was like Oh my god, you're so right. I'm like,

(27:41):
there's so many places and she canmake these things that she loves and she
doesn't have to like make it abusiness. So in with you, I
am one turn your passion into yourbusiness. If it makes sense for you.
If you just love doing it,knock your socks off, that's great.

(28:02):
I love it absolutely. And again, it's not clutter in my opinion.
If you're using it and it's servingyou, well, it's becomes clutter.
If you're like I went out andbought all the stuff to become a
knitter during COVID, and I haveall of this stuff and now I don't
knit, and I'm sitting with allthe stuff that's taking up real estate in

(28:23):
my light. But if you're doingit, then it's not clutter. It's
serving a purpose exactly. It's Itotally agree with you. I totally agree
with you, and I think Ido. I think sometimes just having a
hobby to have a hobby, right, why not? And the last clutter
magnet, this is a good one. This is lasting wisdom. This is

(28:44):
where we buy all the things toget smarter. We buy all the books
that we never read. We printout all the articles that we never read.
We buy eight million online cord thisidea that yes, look, I'm
a seeker, I'm a I'm readingall the time. I'm learning all the
time, I'm connecting with people,I'm listening to podcasts all the time.

(29:04):
But also even me, I'm likeI looked at my stack of to be
read books the other day and Iwas like, oh, yeah, you
nope, nope, until you getthrough this stack, there's no more buying
books. And I made a notein my phone of the books that I
wanted to read, and when Iget through this stack, I will go
to the library and I will startto work my way through it. Like,

(29:25):
yeah, the stack was overwhelming,and I'm like, I'm never going
to read these, like it's toomany. It's funny because so we do.
I have a Good Reads list personally, so I just go in and
I'll just be like, oh,I want to read this. But as
you'll see when we are wrap upour conversation, one of the questions I
ask all of our guests is whatbook are you reading or what's a book
that's been transformational? So you'll obviouslybe but I tell people all the time,

(29:51):
I selfishly asked this question not onlybecause I'm curious, but it gives
me, like all these prompts ofthese great books that I may or may
not have heard of, and sowhat do I do? Nont of times
out of time, I'm like,I'm just gonna go bother this book right
now, and I'm like you whereI end up having a bunch of books
And then I'm like, wait,I have to get through this because there's

(30:14):
no way that I think. Ithink yeah, and I think good Reads
that's such a great way to doit. Good Reads, like for our
local libraries, you put yourself onthe list for books because they're not They're
always not available. So I createthat list that you're talking about at my
library and then I'll get a pingand it's oh, this Daisy Jones and
the six is in, and you'relike, oh, fantastic, that's awesome,
and we really need and I'm sayingwe and I'm really pointing at me,

(30:38):
we'll eat meat to get Because again, the ease of convenience to be
able to and I'm guilty of itjust as much as anybody. I'm not
and Amazon heater or whatever, butit's so easy to just click and buy,
and hey, we don't need toconsume all of it. I really
should be utilizing my library more.Not that I don't want to support an

(30:59):
author. I'm an author. You'rean author, and I love being able
to support people. But get thereare times where we're like, I can
ask a friend if they can borrow, and all of those little things also
are little ways that you can startto reduce the consumption. Yep, exactly,
And I'm like you, but alsoget the audio book. There's so

(31:21):
many ways. And of course itis funny being an author, but I'm
like, yeah, go to thelibrary, get it. And also if
you start to read, my husband'sreading a John Steinbeck book right now,
and I'm like, yeah, wedon't need to buy that again. John
Steinbeck is long gone. We cango to the library and get that book.
So I think that, But Ithink that's again you just said it.
It's like we just it's all aboutbeing aware of our consumption. Being

(31:47):
aware of our consumption. Yeah,I love it. I want to pivot
for a second because this is whenwe were prepping for the show and I
was doing a little research. Youmentioned in your intake stuff that you grew
up in a house with an extremehoarder and I we just released an episode
with my friend Matt Paxton all abouthoarding and really the definition Again, people

(32:15):
throw the term around very loosely thevernacular sense, but in all seriousness,
it is a serious, usually traumabased disorder. And I'm just wondering,
obviously there's a connection of probably howyou ended up doing this. It's not
just a coincidence, But I wouldlove for you to just talk a little

(32:37):
bit about what that was like growingup and just paint a picture for people.
Sure. Sure, And I alsowant to give a little shout out
to Matt Paxton. I've been followinghim for many years and he was the
first person I had always I hadalways felt it, but he was the
first person that I ever heard alsolikened hoarding disorder to an addiction, and

(33:00):
I was like, because everything I'dwitnessed it felt like growing up with an
alcoholic was varied. This thing hadcontrol over him. It still does.
So really, if someone out thereis worried about it with themselves or someone
that they love, he is anunbelievable resource. He really is a kind

(33:22):
human and really understand So go readhis book and follow him and he just
it's great. Yeah, So interestinglyI didn't he part of why my parents
split up was his hoarding. Sohe lived somewhere else, but we saw
him every weekend and it was difficult. And as his life went on and

(33:42):
more traumatic events happened to him,it got worse and worse. So I
spent my whole life watching someone bein a choke hold with their relationship with
their stuff. That was the mostimportant thing. When I've heard children of
alcoholics say, I felt like myfather and my mother chose the bottle over

(34:02):
me, and that's how I felt. I feel like my dad chose the
dumpster over me. And it wasn'tuntil many acknowledging hoarding disorder is relatively new
for a long time. Dad.For a long time, they thought it
was a symptom of OCD, andit now all of a sudden, really,
not till the nineties where they like, no, this is its thing.

(34:23):
So finally when I learned like,he's not doing this on purpose,
that was the thing. I alwaysthought he was doing it on purpose.
Just stop, just stop. Andonce you realize that, and I think
what that opened. That just gaveme so much compassion and empathy. That
the whold, even if you're notdealing with hoarding disorder or if you have

(34:45):
a like a low grade of it, the whold that your stuff can have
on you. And people will sacrificeeverything. People will sacrifice everything. And
did is your dad soul life?He is ency still struggling? He is
we just yes, he's still struggling. Still. Yeah, I'm pretty sorry.

(35:07):
Sorry. And it doesn't get easierwith age because as their physical limitations
come in, it gets actually muchmuch more difficult. So if somebody's out
there, I'm going to just pleaseget help. Talk to a mental health
professional. There are a lot oftherapies, cognitive behavior therapy, there's like
a lot of stuff that can work, and especially if you're the child of

(35:30):
one, because it's so frustrating,So educate yourself reading MATS book. There's
another book called Buried in Treasures.They're not doing it on purpose, even
though it feels like they are.Yeah, No, I love it.
And I guess another thing I wouldjust like to clarify to you as a
professional organizer, obviously you have aunique perspective about hoarding from your personal experience,

(35:54):
but are those the types of clientsthat and that's what I just want
to I just also want to shinelight on that as well. And Matt
and I've talked about that on theepisode that he was on where professional organizers,
most professional orders are not trained towork with people with a true hoarding

(36:15):
disorder because it takes it's not justsomebody that is seeking one of that is
trying to magnetize like these different cluttermagnets. They're not somebody that is just
a little bit lonely or bored ortrying to fill avoid there's another death.
And I'm someone who knows a lotabout hoarding disorder. I have now and

(36:37):
I will. I did in thebeginning of my career work with a few
and I was like, this isI'm not I can't, this is too
hard. I'm not. It justwas, it didn't work. I do
specialize in cleaning out houses after someonewho had hoarding disorder passes or they've been

(36:57):
moved into senior living, But evenif they're willing, no, it's just
exactly I'm just not trained. I'mjust not trained. And I think that's
the key for people that are listening. If you're listening out there right now
and you're like, either I'm struggling, or my parents, sibling, whatever,

(37:20):
it really it's you need to havea medical professional and then working in
conjunction. And Matt talked about thatwhen yeah, our episode, so I
would yeah, link to that.Yeah, that's super it's super, super
important. And when again, evensomebody like me who has grown up around
it and it's very educated around it, I don't do it. Yeah,

(37:40):
no, absolutely absolutely, So callhim Matt, you need help, call
Matt. He's just a lot,He's just I'm such a fan of his.
So for the everyday person, we'llcall them the everyday person that is
just again identifying with one of theseor maybe multiple one of these kind of
clutter magnets of why they're shopping orto fill this void of whatever it is.

(38:06):
What are some practical steps like identifyingit is step one. I think
right now we can name it.But then what do you do about it?
How do you make that transition?And again yeah, yeah, this
is great. A couple of thingsthat I tell people that are really easy
to do. First thing, thisis a language switch, and you're gonna

(38:27):
love this. Stop saying I needstop saying I need a new pair of
jeans, I need a new blush, I need a new whatever the thing
is. Ninety nine point nine percentof the time you don't need it,
you just want it, and that'sokay, that's totally okay. But just
start saying I want and be truthfulto yourself what's really going on. And

(38:51):
a lot of times what happens whenyou acknowledge that it's just a want is
that the power goes away. Likeyou're like, oh, I just wanted
a cookie, and now I don'twant one anymore. I just wanted that
third glass of wine. I don'twant that anymore. So taking the step
and taking the kneed out of itand calling it a want, it's a
game changer. Golf just oh,it doesn't have that grip on me.

(39:15):
So that's a big one. That'sa great one. Another thing I tell
people for every you can decide yourdollar amount for me. I do it
for every hundred dollars. Some peopledo it for every fifty dollars. Wait
twenty four hours before you buy it. Yeah, I love. It's like
one of those. It's really simple, but it is effective. It's it's
like the flipping of the hangar.Does you ever flipping a turnip and it's

(39:38):
like you haven't warned it. Thehangar soul backwards. Yeah right again,
it's so simple, but it reallydoes. It really works. This one
really works. Any other thing thatthis one's tough and it's gonna be very
confronting. Run an Amazon report.You can run a report on Amazon if
you're spending they give you a spreadsheet of what you've spent. Yeah,

(40:01):
it was scary. I'm a bigbudget and so you can you could see
like your categories what you spend inOh, I actually ate out and spent
this much money. So you coulddo that for your Yeah. So this
goes hand in hand with that.And the thing that's so fascinated, like
you you see it. I thinkthey tell you the time that you bought

(40:24):
it, which is super interesting.I think that is also Am I a
late night shopper? Am I?Like? Is this all those things?
Running that report? And again we'renot running it to punish ourselves. We're
running it to educate ourselves. Andif like you, if you're a budget
or you're going to start to you'relike, oh, this is what I

(40:45):
spent the money on. Oh ohwow, I just could I have gotten
that? Could I have waited didI have to have that thing right now?
Could I have waited and done alittle research and bought it cheaper somewhere
else. When we buy with Amazon, it's oh, I need this,
I need it right now, letme buy it. So it's a really
it's a really effective tool. It'sa really effective tool. I love those

(41:07):
are three very simple, actionable stepsthat require no month. Like it's not
up rock. And that's what Ilove about it, is it. The
hard part is the discipline to doit. And that's like with everything,
Like that's the hard part. Likeit's yeah, to be intentional about trying

(41:29):
to catch yourself every time you sayI need switching that over. And it's
something that I did with my girlswhen they were younger and I and I
would say, is it's a needor want? And they thankfully have grown
up with that drinking that kool aid. I'm not saying it always works,
but like it just having that perspectiveit does really change it. And again

(41:54):
I've done the twenty four hours isgood. It's also good if you're like
writing emails that you might be alittle bit aggressive about. It's good to
wait twenty four hours for that too. But that was in yours in your
draft box. Yeah, I mightspeak from experience. I don't know what,
and I'm just kidding, but Ilove it. I love it.
It's just I think sometimes again it'sthe when we actually look at what our

(42:16):
behavior is telling us. Then it'swow, we're looking in the mirror.
And again, it's not to shameanybody, it's not to judge anybody.
But if you want to make thesechanges, there are little things that you
can do that will make a hugeand I love all this. Okay,
so before we take our last break, tell our listeners if they want to

(42:40):
fire book, learn more, workwith you all the things. Where's the
best place for them to go toconnect up Tracy McCubbin dot com mcub i
n it's great. I have aquiz on there if you want to find
out where you're stuck around your clutter. And it's fantastic. It's we're having
a really good time. I sendnewsletters once a couple of weeks. And

(43:00):
then also Instagram is my really bigplatform at Tracy Underscore McCubbin. I do
these five minute things you can declutterin five minute challenges. I'm putting up
stuff all the time. It's avery supportive, loving but my followers really
are supporting each other. It's great. We're having a good time over there.
We love it. And again we'regoing to link up to all things

(43:22):
Tracy and I want to tell everybodyTracy was gracious enough to gift me some
books that we're going to be doinga giveaway. So I have this book,
We've got a couple others so thatwe are going that are over yonder.
For those of you are watching onYouTube, here's how I'm going to
enter. I'm keeping it really simple, guys, because the best way to

(43:43):
support this show is by telling otherpeople about it. So I'm asking anybody
who's interested, if you like thisepisode, would you just write us a
little quick review and you could dothat in puple And if you're listening on
Spotify and I don't know if youcan write reviews on Spotify, don't know,
but like you can just write iton Instagram or wherever tag us.

(44:04):
But if you're on Apple, writea little review, screenshot it and just
tagged us. You can try totake Tracy and tag me at this Organized
life podcast and we're just going topick some winners at random and We're gonna
send you guys Tray's book so greatand give Laurie five stars. Man,
she's the OG. She's but sofunny, and I love that there's this

(44:27):
next generation coming up and they're veryinteresting. But it's also we've been doing
this for a long time. Iremember, like, hell have you been
doing I'm like, I don't know, one hundred and fifty years. Let's
say, let's just say I organizedthe last supper like I was there.
I love it. I love it. Okay, So we are going to
just take a quick break. We'regoing to come back, just do our
quick wrap up questions. So sittight, all right, parents, brace

(44:51):
yourselves. The end of school titlewave of kids, papers and crafts is
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(45:13):
You can keep infinite photos and storiesin this digital scrapbook that is organized,
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upload their memories and it's a greatway to commemorate and look on things without

(45:36):
having your physical clutter. Can Iget an amen on that now? If
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(46:01):
contribute to the household, and keepthat clutter at bay. So, Denise
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All you have to do is visitDenise Albright dot com. That is Denise
Albright dot com and use code simplythirty that's simply simpy thirty at check out

(46:22):
to receive thirty percent off your entireorder. All right, Tracy, As
I mentioned before, love books,I love reading, I love learning,
and I love in finding out whatinspires our guests to get up and do
the things that they do in life. And so, is there a book

(46:42):
that either you're currently reading or maybeit's a book that you've read that you
either come back to or that likeyou recommend to people that's have a real
big impact that you can share withus. Yeah, I'm actually rereading it.
I'm reading a book called The Toolsby Phil stats. Okay, I
have it. I think I justput it somewhere. I'm not sure where

(47:04):
when it was over there. Hisname is doctor Phil Stutz and he is
a psychiatrist and I had the amazingpleasure to work with him twenty five years
ago. And he is all aboutgiving you tools to get out of your
own way, oh God, andyour ego. And he's a very smart
They're very doable and he the onething I learned from him years ago,

(47:29):
and he talks about this is thatwhen you're beating yourself up, or when
you're like I'm no good or whateveris he has you do this gratitude exercise.
So you just when you find yourself, you just name five things that
you're grateful for. And what healways had you do is like when you
were standing in line at the ATMor you're waiting at a traffic you just

(47:49):
train your brain to be like Ihave a roof over my head and I
turned my fawcet on and clean watercame out and I could actually walk on
And just this from a very science. It's based the power of being in
gratitude and love it. It's greatAnd this book is great, so I'm
just rereading it. It's fantastic forpeople. He's very it's just great.

(48:12):
So it's the he writes with someoneelse and I'm so mortified. I can't
remember, but it's doctor Phil Stetsons. We'll be linking to it because we
do link to all of these.Laura, you lovit. I was like,
this is right up my alley,This is right up my alley.
I love it. Yes, I'mdefinitely going to read this. And then
on just a little side, I'malso reading the Pam Anderson autobiography called Love

(48:34):
Pamela. It's so good. It'sso good. Did you watch? I
didn't watch watch. It was justto watch a person. She it's her
poetry's in it and to hear herjourney and as a woman, and it's
just great. I love her,like her animal activism and just you know

(48:55):
what her ex husband was rewarded forand she was beaten down for. And
it's just she's lovely and you seethis person. It's great. I loved
it. I love it and watchedthe documentary it's really it was directed by
her son, and you just youfall in love with her. You just
fall in love with her. Soexcited. I know, I love her.
Thank you so much. And thenwe ask this question of all of

(49:20):
our guests, and I especially loveasking it of professional organizers because again,
there's this misconception out there that everythingin our lives is all together all the
time, and we all know that'sjust not true. So in this particular
season of your life, where doyou feel the most organized and where do
you feel like a little bit ofa hot mess? And my new thing

(49:44):
is, I'm asking everybody to startwith the hot best moment because I want
to end on a high note.But tell if there's something in your life
that's gonna be a little bit moreorganized or I'm feeling a little cluttery in
this area. Yeah, my closetis out of control right now. It's
just it just I don't know whatI think. Between the wedding and like
that, and we traveled a bitand like I went in there to be

(50:06):
honest, And this is the thingthat client say, I'm getting dressed out
of my laundry basket right now,like I haven't. I'm like this weekend.
I'm like, oh, yeah,you gotta go spend a couple hours
in there and get it back.So my closet is a hot mess.
And guess what, it happens anddoesn't make me a bad person, And
I give it a little bit ofattention and It'll get back to where I
want it. That's exactly. So, yeah, my closet is a bit

(50:29):
of a hot mess, all right. And where do you feel like you're
sliding right now in the world ofAnd it could be an organization with your
business or your time. Doesn't haveto be a technical space, it could
be whatever, like this says,I am so on point with the financials
for my company. I hired anew bookkeeping service. I hired a new

(50:49):
CPA. I hired someone to domy invoicing for my company. I hired
these women who are amazing at whatthey do, and they are doing it
and I'm not doing it all myself. And it is so on point I
know at a click of a buttonwhere I am financially At every moment in
the business, we're drilling down,we're looking at growth. It's to just
understand that I can't do it all, and that hiring a professional who's good

(51:15):
at what they do is game changing. I just the other day I was
like, oh I haven't. Ohmy golly, this is great, and
like I'm sleeping better. I reallyam sleeping better. I love that.
I love it. I think that'sawesome. So I appreciate you sharing that
because again, there's no shame.Actually it's healthy to outsource. I always
tell people, especially women who arestay at home parents, because I think

(51:37):
there's a s guilt that you haveto do it all because you just do.
I had that false arty of myself, and I say, if you're
the CEO of your home, theCEO of a business doesn't do all the
jobs. Yes they don't. Theyoversee the vision and they weigh in,
but they delegate and they defer andthey do all of these things. And

(52:00):
if you're the CEO of your home, it's it's not realistic to think,
from a sustainable perspective that you're gonnabe able to do all the things,
and so I I have my dearfriend Wendy always says, you know how
you're a superwoman, and yet yeah, Delegate, it's just impossible. And
so I really think, and thisis when ITAs I love talking to you

(52:21):
as a longtime organizer. Is thepower and understanding where you need help and
asking for it and getting it ishow you succeed. I always say,
I don't like to garden. Idon't enjoy it. I love to have
a yard that looks. I loveplants, I love to see it.
I don't like to garden. WhenI hired a gardener who's very good at

(52:43):
what he does, I get toenjoy my yard. I don't have to.
Like it's a win win for everybody. And you're supporting on another local
business. Yeah, who enjoys gardeninglike they're doing what they like and you're
and that's I'm here for all ofthat. I love it. I love
it, Tracy. It's been apleasure chatting with you. I hope everybody
goes out and get your book again, don't forget go on, leave us

(53:08):
a review screenshot, and again wehave three books that we're going to be
raffling off for people I'm excited forpeople to read it and really look at
the clutter from the consumption perspective.I just think it's brilliant. I love
it. So anyway, thanks somuch, and if this is your first
time tuning into our show, youpicked a great one. Make sure you

(53:29):
click the subscribe follow button wherever youlisten to podcasts, which we're on YouTube
as well. We now have twoepisodes that we dropped weekly. We've got
our long form interview styles that wedrop every Thursday and on Mondays are our
quick tip of the week, Sojust a little short nugget to get you
motivated. It's fired to get yourweek off on a great start. So

(53:52):
lots of content and please follow uson social media and we love to connect
up with you. So until nextI'm Lord Colo peas Down. Thanks for
tuning in. If you liked thisepisode, please spread the love and share
it with your friends. If thisis your first time joining us, make
sure to click the subscribe button whereveryou're listing so you never miss an episode.

(54:13):
And while you're there, please leaveus a review so other people knew
that our show is worth to listen. You can also find us on YouTube
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us, you can head on overto our website at simply the letter,
B Like Boy organized dot com,which is filled with tons of resources,
including free downloads, checklists, linksto our amazing organizing partners, and all

(54:35):
of our digital offerings. I'll seeyou next week for another episode of This Organized Life