July 3, 2025 • 48 mins
Hey friends!
All summer long, we’re bringing back some of our most-loved episodes from the This Organized Life archives—because let’s be honest, good conversations deserve a second (or third) listen.
This week, we’re kicking things off with Navigating Clutter and Anxiety featuring the amazing Angie Robertson. This one originally aired back in July 2022 as part of our Enneagram series, and it’s still one I come back to often.We talk about how our relationship with stuff is rarely just about the stuff—and how clutter can trigger deep emotional responses like anxiety, guilt, and overwhelm.
Angie shares her personal journey, what it’s like living as an Enneagram 6, and how she learned to quiet the noise (both physical and mental) in her space.If you’ve ever felt stuck, paralyzed by clutter, or unsure where to start—this one’s for you.
All summer long, we’re bringing back some of our most-loved episodes from the This Organized Life archives—because let’s be honest, good conversations deserve a second (or third) listen.
This week, we’re kicking things off with Navigating Clutter and Anxiety featuring the amazing Angie Robertson. This one originally aired back in July 2022 as part of our Enneagram series, and it’s still one I come back to often.We talk about how our relationship with stuff is rarely just about the stuff—and how clutter can trigger deep emotional responses like anxiety, guilt, and overwhelm.
Angie shares her personal journey, what it’s like living as an Enneagram 6, and how she learned to quiet the noise (both physical and mental) in her space.If you’ve ever felt stuck, paralyzed by clutter, or unsure where to start—this one’s for you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to This Organized Life. If you're a mom, wife,
or coffee lover seeking advice on how to reduce clutter
and reclaim time, look no further than your host, Louri Palau,
Founder Simply Be Organized and author of Hot Mess, a
practical guide to getting organized. For a lot of people,
clutter is their dirty little secret, but it doesn't have
to be. Each week, we will share practical tips, chat
(00:22):
with experts, and provide strategies on how to keep you organized.
I hope that by sharing our stories you feel a
little less alone and more empowered to tackle the areas
that are holding you back. So let's get started.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hi everybody, and welcome to today's episode of This Organized
Life podcast. I am your host, Lori Palau, and we
are a little over the midpoint of our Enneagram and
Clutter Summer series, and I hope you're enjoying it as
much as I am. I love chatting with guests, period, period,
(01:01):
full stop. But I love chatting about the anagram, period
full stop. And so I love chatting with guests who
talk about the anagram, who know about the anagram and
have been using it as a tool in their lives,
whether it's personally professionally, relationally, and that's what the series
is all about, is just bringing some education and awareness
(01:22):
and seeing how you can be the best version of yourself.
And I am a huge proponent of the anagram. This
is something that I've been studying for the past five
years and if you want to learn more about that,
I have a whole framework on my website which you
guys can go check out at simplybeorganized dot com. And
if you also haven't listened to the other episodes in
(01:46):
this summer series, I highly encourage you to go back
and listen because we've had some amazing guests that have
been talking about everything from their personal to professional life
from their Anygram ones, twos, threes, fours.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
And five.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So today we are about to hear from our Anagram
sixes or six guests and joining me is Angie Robertson.
And Angie is a lot of you might know or
She facilitates the Instagram handle six ish and know it Professionally,
(02:24):
she runs her own virtual.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Assistant company in Florida.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
She helps other people who are interested in starting their
own virtual assistant businesses, which is not unlike what I
do with the SBO Partner program. Helping encourage people who
want to start their own professional organizing businesses. So we
have so many overlaps that we can talk about. But
I specifically invited Angie on the show today to talk
(02:51):
about her life as an Anagram six and she's going
to elaborate on that. Obviously, the Anagram sixes are the loyalists.
We're going to talk a little bit of about what
their core motivation is, how that shows up in her life,
how she learned about the anagram, and how she kind
of has used this as a tool to help her
(03:11):
be the best version of herself professionally and personally. So,
without further ado, let me welcome my friend Angie robertson
to the show.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Welcome Angie, Thank you Laurie for having me.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I am so excited. So tell our listeners. I gave
a very top line overview, but tell our listeners.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
A little bit about who you are, and then we.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Can kind of dive in to how you even got
started with the anagram.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Okay, perfect.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
So yes, I have been running my own virtual assistant
practice for the last twenty years. It's absolutely the perfect
business for an Aneagram six because you have that loyalist
and I have one client that's been with me for
fifteen of those twenty years, So gives you any indication
that my sixness comes out in.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
That for sure?
Speaker 5 (04:04):
And I work with clients virtually all over the world
throughout the years and really love it. And now just recently,
about two years ago, I opened up my own school
to help anyone that's interested in becoming a virtual assistant
to start their own business so that they can have
their own thriving practice. And I certainly kind of tap
(04:25):
it a little bit to Neagram sixes and ones because
they kind of both like the admin role. They're kind
of they love that commitment and loyalty and being able
to solve problems and also organize and be detailed, which.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Are perfect for both of those Enneagram numbers.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I was just I was just going to say, I
was curious to know if you see like trends, because
obviously being and I have a virtual assistant, I love,
I mean, the value especially for entrepreneurs out there who
there's things that need to happen from accounting, administrative to
back end you know, website stuff, everything that needs you know, email, marketing,
(05:05):
you name it, all of the nuts and bolts of
your business that need to happen if you don't have
time to do it. Hiring a VA is I highly recommended.
It's I've you know, employed vas for the better part
of my professional career. But what I was going to
say was, do you you need to have a really
(05:25):
strong attention to detail to do that job? So is
do you start to see trends now that you're working
with other people that there are certain enneagram types?
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Obviously I haven't really seen a whole lot of trends
yet in terms of like the types of clients that
come in and work with me as I do. I
have seen and run a couple of polls, especially on
the six or six ersent and I note page that
a lot of sixes are drawn to the admin fields.
They do kind of show up, and so that in
that field and ones as well as another one that
(05:58):
hint tends to be drawn to that field.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Okay, I have some ideas about that, So talk a
little bit about For most of.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Our listeners, especially if they've been around our show for
a little bit of a time, have some familiarity with
the anagram and the different types.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
But in case somebody is new or doesn't know.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Can you just give an overview, like a ten thousand
foot overview of what the characteristics are of an anagram six?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (06:25):
So for an enneagram six, our kind of core motivation
is fear. Fear of fear itself. We kind of see
worst case scenario and that can a lot of times
that can come across as a negative and people see
that as a negative. Oh my gosh, you're always worried
about the other shoe dropping, if you will. But I
(06:48):
always look at worst case scenario and a lot of
sixes feel this way as well. We're really out there
to help people see pitfalls that they wouldn't normally see.
And so that's one of our gifts in our superpowers
I like to call it, is that we get to
see holes in your plan that you would never know
and we bring those to the forefront so you can say,
oh my gosh, I totally miss that, and I can
(07:11):
you know, now I can go and do something about it,
which again makes for a great virtual system as well,
because we see that as six.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
As we see those pitfalls, we do tend to we're
in the head triad.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
We tend to live in our head a lot much
like ones live in their heads, where ones.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Have a critical committee in their head.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
Six is just have a committee that's just talking all
the time and given ideas and thoughts and different things,
and you're just constantly thinking worst case scenario. And it's
not so much criticism as it is just always thinking
and planning ahead and kind of thinking about what might happen.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
So that's one of the other characteristics.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
The other one is what I alluded to a minute ago,
is that we're loyalists. So we are loyal and we
love tonnect with people.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
We love to.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Make real strong bonds, and we love to forge deep relationships,
and we like to go deep with people more than
we like surface conversations. The other side to that, though,
is the minute you know, we also have a we
don't learn to trust ourselves, and so we're always seeking
outside authority. And so as soon as we will trust authority,
(08:25):
until we don't trust authority, and then when we don't
trust authority, we are flat out like write them off,
kind of you know, done with.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
You don't trust you anymore. So it can kind of
be sticky on both ends.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I think that's really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well, first of all, thanks for walking us through that,
and I couldn't help. And a lot of what I'm
saying is just complete, broad strict generalization, so please don't
like shoot the messenger.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
People, take what I'm about to say with a grain
of salt. I wonder.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I'm curious because if a lot of the people that
could you, I mean, everybody that's an entrepreneur, I think
could pretty much use a virtual assistant. Again, I said that,
but I feel like threes because they're very big picture
people and we just we're recording this on the day
that we just dropped our episode with twos and threes,
(09:15):
and my husband's a three, and I know, like details
are not his specialty, Like he's a very big picture
and like, so I would think that a six three
combo would be really beneficial because you would be kind
of going over or sixes or ones that are kind
of going over that with a fine tooth comb to
(09:37):
see kind of those potholes that perhaps that big picture
like visionary type three would just put out there might
be something.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I was just kind of.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
Sure, well, And plus, as a six, we go to
three in stress actually and we go to nine in hell.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
So yeah, I mean, there is that correlation. We surely
understand a three and where they're coming from.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
And I will say, I mean, I haven't really sat
down to say, okay, hey, what's the common number that
shows up? But I do see a lot of threes
come in. I see a lot of eights come in too.
Into yeah, come in and for virtual assistance and eights.
Eights are powerhouses to work with. I love working with
eights because they are very focused, they know where they're going,
and when they get somebody they trust, they offload the
(10:19):
details and they want to focus on what they're meanting.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And for people that are that are just listening, I
like raised my hand because as you know, I'm an eight.
And that's the thing is, I don't want to make
or manage you like I trust you to do your thing.
And if I delegate it and you tell me you've
got it, I'm like good to go.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah that's it. Just give me an update.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And exactly which I love. I love if. I personally
love working with eights, and I've worked with a lot.
I've worked with a lot of eights through through my business,
so yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, and again I think it's I think it's great
and I love the fact I think it does make
a lot of sense. That's that sixes thrive in the
admin space. And again for anybody that it's new to
the anagram, I don't want to stereotype and say if
you're this type you should have this job, or this type.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
You should have.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Any anagram type could be in any career. There are
just certain roles or industries that tend to lend themselves
to different types. But that's not, again a general blanket statement,
but because I feel that a lot of times six
is like having you said, that default of having some
(11:27):
direction that would lend itself to like tell me what
you want and then you're comfortable. When you are comfortable
in where your own space is, then you can thrive.
But it's when you're unsure, and that's where I think
a lot of times the.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Clutter piece comes in.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And I love That's where I love to really kind
of steer this conversation is there's so much unknown and
overwhelm when it comes to clutter and organization. And for
sixes who oftentimes doubt themselves, do you use see that.
I'm curious from your perspective in your life, how that's
(12:04):
kind of presented itself in terms of that, you know, aspect.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Well, for me, I tended and I did a poll
of my of the community because I wanted to make
sure I was like aff weirdo six or anything. I
wanted to represent the majority of sixes here. And it
went one of two ways. It went one way where
sixus felt that overwhelm and like not knowing where to
(12:31):
start and kind of not having that direction like you
were saying. And then there was the other that said,
I need to be organized because that gives me peace
and that helps to keep me calm and I'm not
feeling chaotic and I don't have anxiety. I fall more
into that category where I need to have my space
(12:53):
cleared so that I feel more calm and grounded, and
then I'm not in anks and I'm not overstimulating. My
space is like my space is very neutral colors. I
don't have all I have black, white, gray, and tan
or like my basic but it keeps me very Having
that neutral space keeps me over like I'm not over
(13:13):
stimulated with things because there's so much I'm overstimulating with
my work multiple you know, managing multiple clients and outside
the world is overstimulating. Social media is over stimulating, so
I need a place that's not and that that would be.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
My home for me.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, oh, I love it. I think that's really fascinating.
And I like that because and I think that could
be true for a lot of types. Is you have
you know, you're either not either or but like there
are some people that kind of fall into one spectrum
versus you know, the other type. And I know for me,
(13:49):
some of the experience that I've seen with my clients,
Like I remember a few years ago before COVID I
had when it was probably so I started my podcasts
in twenty seven seen and that was also the year
I released my book, and so it was probably around
twenty eighteen or so I started getting like a lot
of outreach from people that were outside of my geographic
(14:11):
area because before that I was you know, servicing people
and I had kind of a reputation locally. But then
all of a sudden, I had this like bigger you know,
following if you will, And so I started getting people
that were reaching out to me that were saying, do
you you know, do you travel, what do you do?
And that's also around the same time I started the
(14:31):
SBO partner program to help connect them with other professional
organizers that were local to them.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
But what I started doing.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Is saying because at that time, I didn't have any
kind of structure set up for that, and so I
started to saying, well, I can help with some kind
of like virtual coaching. This is again before virtual was
as big as it was in the professional organizing space.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
And I can give you like a roadmap, but I'm.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Not there because you live in Seattle and I'm in Pennsylvania.
And a couple of people liked it, and it was
something that I wasn't didn't set out to do, but
it was kind of like just by default. But I
noticed a lot of people were like, no, no, no,
I really want you to come and sit with me
(15:16):
and go through it with me. And you're not supposed
to type people and I'm not typing people. But I
guess I've had hypothesized over the years, are a lot
of the people that really want that one on one support,
Like do they fall into that sixth camp Because most
(15:38):
of the time I'm just validating what they're already knowing.
I'm just I'm giving them permission. Like when I'm sitting
with somebody, I'm giving them, Okay, here's how we're going
to do it. We're going to put the strategy. But
then at the end of the day, they're making the decisions.
I'm just saying way to go, or maybe challenge them
(16:00):
a little bit. But I think sometimes once people get
that again that permission air quote, because he already needs
my permission, but they feel that permission of that they're
not making a wrong decision or that they're on the
right track.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
That's when they feel empowered to do it on their own.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
And that's where that sixes don't trust themselves. They and
they seek outside authority to validate really what they already know.
I mean, what they already It's just they aren't trusting themselves.
That's a big one of the biggest issues I face
for myself as a six is that trusting authority and
having to learn how to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So how do you navigate that if somebody's out there
listening and saying, oh my gosh, I struggle with that too, Like,
what are some of the things that you've done to
kind of work through that?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
And obviously you know this has been actually we didn't
even get into how did you learn about that?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Any Graham let's let's put a pin in that question
and go back to kind of your anagram.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Sure, it was probably about five years ago.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
I have no idea how I came across the book
The Road Back to You by Susanne Stabile and Ian Cron.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Somehow I got my hands on that book.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
I think it would I think if I think back correctly.
My husband we were concerned that he might have Asperger syndrome,
and so I was doing some research. Somehow I came
across the enneagram and it was intriguing to me. I
found the book and started reading the numbers and I
got to A nine and I was like, oh my gosh,
(17:32):
this is my husband so much, and it's like him
to a t. So I took the book to him
and let him read it, and he was like, oh
my gosh, this is me, Like who, what did you write?
Speaker 4 (17:42):
What did somebody interview me?
Speaker 5 (17:44):
It was just it spoke to him so much and
he felt and we both said, oh, you don't have
possiable like he took the test and he doesn't have
it Asperger syndromes. But it was like, oh my gosh,
this is why you act and react and do things
the way that you do. It's it's been based off
of the characteristics of this this number, this enneagram number.
So that set me often to just researching more. Of course,
(18:08):
I didn't know my number and being a six, that's
very common for six not to know their number, and
like not agree with being a six.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yes, and and if you and again for for anybody
that fils. I was told I don't know if this
is still true or not true, but that sixes are
the most common type.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Yeah, that's what I've heard too.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, and it's interesting because I personally don't have a
lot of sixes in my life. Yeah, I have a
lot of other types, but sixes are not as common
in my personal space unless they're just again not not identified.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Maybe miss type or mistype, which they very they very
well can be.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
A lot of them will miss type as twos. Sometimes
they'll miss type is ones. But yeah, I mean I
took the test. I can't tell you how many times
I took a test, and then I.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Found out, really a test is kind of not the
full proof thing. You just kind of need to dive
into it absolutely. Oh, I mean I took a test.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
I took the test so many times, and every time
I came back, but I came back as What was interesting,
I was come back as a seven. I would come
back as a nine. I would come back as a two,
and so it was it all fit.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
It's just that wasn't my number.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
But I had the opportunity to go see Susan Stabile
in person right before the pandemic happened, right before everything
shut down.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
She's great, I've I've gone to a bunch of her
in person workshops.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
It was so awesome. It was a know your Number workshop.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I went.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
It was a two day workshop.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
My husband and I both went, and I was like,
I'm going to find out what my number is once
and for all. I'm done with this second guessing. When
she my husband, every time she would go through a number,
I'd look at him. He's like, that's not you. When
when she got to the sixes, he was like, that's you.
And I was crying because I felt like I finally
had words to my actions, Like I had a description
(19:55):
of how I felt and how I show up and
I could put words to it now and somebody understood that.
And I knew then that was absolutely my number was
b a six and I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I love that, and I agree because and I always say,
I think it's what I love about the endagram is
that it helps to give you language.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
It gives language and context.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Again not an excuse for poor behavior, but it also
just a lot of times people don't know how to
explain why they and especially and I see this with
clutter a lot. Where why does it stress you out
so much? Why do you feel the need to control
(20:39):
this situation? And when you have this understanding, you have
this language and this knowledge, you can then either a
stop yourself and kind of work through the strategies. You
can also have some grace for yourself in those spaces,
and you can lean into the parts of you that
are really awesome, like you said that are the superpowers,
(21:01):
and maybe the areas that are a little bit more struggling,
like if you know that you're somebody that is prone to,
you know, the anxiety fear piece, you know, if emotional
clutter is something that you might struggle with, And we'll
get to that. What parameters, what boundaries can you put
into your own life to say, Okay, I'm starting to
(21:24):
fall into this behavior, let me go through this checklist
or whatever, to say, is this true?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Is this fact? Do I need this? Do I not?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
But without having that knowledge of where this is coming from,
you know, you're just in this fight or flight mode exactly.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
That's the other thing I love about the enneagram is
it brings to light and it brings your awareness. So
you start to pause for a minute and recognize, oh,
I'm spinning right now, I'm in my head and I'm
spinning and I'm doing worst case scenario.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Okay, what's that about?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
And it just helps bring awareness and you start to
pay attention more to yourself and how you respond to things,
and you can recognize those patterns so that you can
move more towards the healthy nine. In my case, as
a say yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
We're going to take a quick break and when we're
going to come back. When we come back, I want
to talk about something that you mentioned earlier, which is
about being in the head triad, and I want to
just elaborate on that a little bit and talk about
the different types of clutter because I think that'll just
segue really nicely. So sit tight, everybody, and we will
be right back, all right, Angie. So you mentioned earlier
(22:34):
that sixes are in the head triad and again I
know what that is, but for people that are out
there that might not.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
So there are.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Three centers of intelligence that they it's called in the
anagram world, which are thinking, feeling, and doing. And so
within the anagram spectrum of core numbers, you either fall
into you have a dominant center for everybody, and you
either fall into being in the head triad, which means
that you are thinking dominant, you fall in the gut triad,
(23:06):
which means that you are doing dominant or feeling dominant,
which you're in the heart triad. And so for sixes
along with fives and seven, so five, six, and sevens
are in the head triad, meaning that they are thinking dominant.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
So it would make sense.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
That you would be in your head a bit. And
I know you're a six with a five wing if
I'm not mistaken, right, So you definitely are thinking because
fives are our analytical thinkers, so you are constantly your
reels are always turning when it comes to that thought process,
which can be really great until that thought prohibit you
(23:45):
from taking action.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And so I guess for me, it would be helpful
if you could share our audience and we talked a
little bit about this again with you said you need
that physical space to be and soothing, so we hear
it at simply be organized. In this Organized Life podcast,
talk about three main types of clutter. Your physical clutter
stuff that you see, you know, dishes in the sink, laundry, toys.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
All that stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You're what I call emotional clutter, which is the feelings
either that stems from either guilt, fear, sentimental value, things
of that nature that hold you back from taking action.
Or what I call calendar clutter, which is that time
management piece, and that again could stem from like for example,
(24:36):
like A two could struggle with calendar clutter because they
have trouble saying no setting healthy boundaries.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Again, very very much stereotyping.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
But I'm wondering, for you and your own words, if
any of those three of the three, which one speaks
to you the most.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
In terms of like dominant for you?
Speaker 5 (24:56):
I would say emotional for sure, because we do have
that fear that we're always up against where whether it
shows the worst case scenario, oh I might need this
one day, or it can go to the other side
of not trusting myself enough to take the action and
I'll just let something sit or you know, just not
(25:19):
deal with it. So yeah, I would say it's it's
kind of funny because it in some respects as six
as we can be kind of shut off from emotions
at times, so it's funny to say emotional but then
sometimes feel like we're cut off.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
But that does play into emotions as well.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
So yeah, I would definitely save a six, and I
see that with other sixes, Like when I did the
kind of pull the community, that's the kind of the
sense that I got as well was emotional.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Well, thank you for validating me and the work that
I'm doing. Okay, I'm glad that you know. Good, right answer,
right answer. No, But and that's that's it.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And I'm glad that you said that about the emotional
because I think most people think emotion sad or dramatic,
because that's kind of the word the image that conjures up.
But what I found is that there's kind of different
types of emotional clutter. You have those people that are
let me stroll down memory lane, let me be everything.
(26:17):
You know, my daughter's a four and everything has feelings.
So there's that level of emotional clutter, but it's not
fear based it's not that what if that what if scenario.
And so even before I knew the enneagram, like I
developed this framework, the physical emotional calendar. This was like
early on in my career, and so that's when I
started to learn the anagram. I started saying, Okay, well
(26:40):
can we how can we weave these together? And I
started seeing, well, a lot of times sixes struggle with
that indecision, which is what I call one of the
five clutter pitfalls, right, our five clutter pitfalls again, and
everybody can struggle with them, but for different reasons. So
they're procrastination, which is the hull I'll get to it later,
(27:03):
in decision, which is I don't know what to do,
so I'm not gonna do anything, you know, I'm just
gonna put it over here, because if I don't do anything,
I can't make a mistake. And I see that probably
is something that could be.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Like a through line for sixes for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
And then you've got guilt, which may or may not
be but again I feel like guilt's really big for two,
you know, And then you've got overwhelmed, which is just
I think I think we all can struggle, which just
overwhelm you know, we're just getting to this point of
like I'm just I don't know what to do, and
then time, which is just I don't have the time
(27:39):
to do it. And so again what I found is
each Enneagram type can struggle with any of those, but
for completely different reasons. Right, A one is going to
procrastinate for a very different reason than a seven.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And that's really what we want to look at as.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Okay, so if we know we're doing this, what are
the strategies that we can put into place? And so
that kind of can bring me back to my earlier question,
which is, for you, especially in your career, what strategies
have you found to live an organized life?
Speaker 5 (28:14):
For me, I think it's it's like I was saying earlier,
just being aware and knowing and giving myself grace when
I started to see a pattern, but noticing it and
giving myself grace to make a.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Correction on that and kind of course correct.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
I think that's been huge for me, is just to
be aware, really, I mean, and that's been the study
of the enneagram doing that, you know, it's been for
the last five years now, I've been kind of studying it,
and it's always I'm always learning something and I'm always
uncovering something, you know. Having the six page really an
(28:57):
Instagram really kind of helped as well. And being on
that community and surrounding myself with other sixes and just
kind of supporting each other. That's really helped to know
and to be able to grow further and to move
more into the healthy side of a six, which means
that I am tapping a little bit more into my
(29:18):
nine and being peaceful and just kind of allowing things
to go if they need to go, Like if you know,
it's especially living with a nine, who I was.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Going to say, because you have that dynamic, right, there's
that kind of three six nine dynamic.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
What is that relationship?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Like, it's great.
Speaker 5 (29:41):
I have to be careful that he doesn't. I always
want to make sure I tell him this. We joke
about it, but I'm also very serious that he you know,
because nine's they have a voice, but they don't realize
they have a voice. And so I'm always trying to
affirm him that you know, your voice matters, and I
want to know what you want to do, and I
want to know you know what matters to you. We
(30:04):
were complete opposites when it came to organizing, he is
very much I might need this one day, and like
keeps all the things, and I've moved, I've been able
to move beyond that to where if I need it
one day, I'll just go buy another one.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
That's kind of the way I've adopted now.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
Sure, and now he's starting to and I had to
let him get there on his own. I didn't want
him to do it because nines tend to merge. So
they'll merge to keep peace, they'll merge to be with people,
and so I want to make sure that he came
to that on his own where he's starting to say,
you know what, I don't. I don't need this. I
can go get another one if I need it, and
(30:42):
kind of adopt that same philosophy and seeing that way.
But it was a struggle for a little bit and
to where. I mean, he has his office now, and
like he that's his space, and I don't tell him
what he needs to do in there.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
I let him if he wants stats of paper everywhere,
he can have I don't.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
That's not my domain, that's his, sure, but everything else
needs to be around, yeah, my sanity. Yeah, So it's also.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
Not trying to to project what I want onto him
and force him into something that's just not his nature.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
So yes, and I think again, people underestimate and you know,
correct me if you feel otherwise, but people underestimate the
power of what your physical space looks like and how
you are able to be productive and calm and anxiety
(31:40):
like to reduce anxiety. You know, so many people when
they are in a space that is chaotic and then
they are chaotic, they don't always connect the dots that
if I were to And again, not that it's a
cure all not that if you have an empty desk
or kitchen counter that doesn't have anything on it, that
that means you're going to be, like you know, a
(32:01):
zen person all the time. But there is a connection
point between this, and I'm wondering, especially since I would
say you're.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Prone to that anxiety.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Being an enneagram six, your your reels are always turning.
I suspect, right of like you said, And I'm hoping
you can elaborate a little bit on kind of that
inner that committee of people in your head, or how
that plays out, because I think when that's always going
having the serenity of your physical space being organized probably.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Helps to maybe neutralize that a little bit. Is that correct?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (32:40):
Absolutely absolutely. It's like what I was saying earlier, this
is this is my home is a key. It's not
overstimulating to me. I mean I need that because I
am overstimulated in my head just from.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
All the messages.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
I mean, we're the most plugged in generation of information.
I mean, we're in information overload, if you will, and
so it's super important. And I would say I wasn't
always like this, and I would and my space didn't
really reflect me until maybe about seven years ago, and
I really started to kind of understand.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
More of who I was.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
And then when I found the enneagram, I really started
to understand more of who I was.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
And so then my space are to reflect more of
the healthy side.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
Of me and more of the way I operate my business,
and it started to you know, all kind of connect
But not to say that I still don't have that
inner those you know, just always always always thinking, constantly thinking,
constantly thinking worst case scenario. I mean, it could even
be it could be something that I'm having to deal with,
(33:47):
or it can be something a client, you know, I'm
having to help a client with always just thinking about
what if?
Speaker 4 (33:55):
What if?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
What if?
Speaker 4 (33:57):
That's a constant with me.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
My husband when he found out, when he when we
both realized I was a six, and he started to
understand and really start to learn more about how a
six is. He loves to go to Disney World. He
absolutely loves it. It's his favorite place. I cannot stand
it because it's so overstimulating for me. But I didn't
have words to tell him that, right, and so when
(34:22):
he started to understand, and like, especially if he wanted
me to go on a roller coastery type ride, you know,
a real daredevil type ride, it would I would literally
almost have a panic attack because I'm thinking of how
I could die on that ride.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Okay, well I'm an eight and I think that too.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So my family has banned me from going to amusement
parks with them because I am a nervous and I'm
not a nervous nelly in a lot of most areas
of my life.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
But I'm like, I could be.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
A six if you could, if you could, I know
you can't switch types, but if I if I could
switch a type in a situation, I would be chatteling
my intersex.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Well that's me.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
So when he finally understand that, he goes, I understand
now why you don't like Disney World. I understand why
you're panicked when I ask you to go on a ride.
I get it now, and I'm like.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Thank you, Yeah, you know so yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
And that's the beauty of understanding the enneagram type and
like getting to really understand you and like you were saying,
it's not to.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
Box you in or to make you have an excuse
for any type of behavior.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
It's just really helps you to put language and awareness
to who you are and how you kind of function
and respond to things.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Let me ask you another question, So do you feel
because I've also worked with some clients that again, because
they have that kind of self doubt, I have found
that visual remind or like visual prompts are really helpful
to I don't want to say I'm trying to think.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Of even the right word, but to encourage them to
keep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
So let me give you like a practical, real life example.
So I have a client that I work with for years.
I suspect she's a six. Again, don't know for sure,
but I suspect that she is, and so I take
it some before.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Pictures kind of like before and after pictures, if you will.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
And we've been working together on and off for several
months on like different aspects of her home, and one
day she was just feeling really dejected, like I feel
like every time I, you know, start to get ahead,
something happens and I kind of fall off my organizing bandwagon.
And I pulled up some pictures from like when we
first started, and I.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Was like, look at how far you've come. Yes, you
might not.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Be exactly where you want to be, but like I'm
giving you a show. I'm showing you, like, look at
how much better or further along you are than you're
giving yourself credit for.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
And I think you could plug that into anything.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
You can plug that into weight loss or you know,
an exercise, you could plug that into finances.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
But just having that, you know, whether it's checking stuff
off a to do list.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Do you find that having some sort of visual prompts
is a tool that has been helpful for you?
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (37:11):
I would call it for me, examples, examples or even reflection. Okay,
I do really well with examples. If I have an
example of something, then that helps you. And I think
that probably goes back to that authority piece. And why
we seek out authority is we're really seeking out authority
to be that example of what we're already capable of doing. Really, yes, yeah,
(37:35):
and so for me, examples are huge. I mean, I
here's a nerdy kind of organizing thing. About a year ago,
I took I digital journals, so I use an iPad
and I have an app, and I do all my
journaling digitally. Well, I decided I wanted to take all
my handwritten, like hard copy journals and scan them into
(37:55):
my digital journals so I would have everything in one place,
so I didn't. I took that task on scan them
all in. And now what I loved it doing is
the like today, I would go back, however many years
I might have an entry for this exact day two
years ago, three years ago and read to see what
(38:16):
was I experience and then what was I thinking.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
About, what was I what was going on in my life.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
I'm absolutely loving it because it helps me to see
where I've been and where I'm going and what I
was experiencing then, and oh my gosh, I'm still experiencing
that now, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Oh my gosh. I love that. I love that that's
you know, I think that's that's a really that's a
really great exercise. That seems like a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
But I but I mean, I think that's that's I
think that's great. But yeah, that does make a lot
of sense to be able to kind of document your
progress if you will. Yeah, you know, and I guess
being in the head try it and with that five
way of knowing that like having that research and facts
is what's going to also help you to take action
(39:08):
is probably really helpful for you versus a six with
a seven wing that is a whole other you know,
with the seven's being our you know, kind of our
free spirit people.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
They're the fun they are. They are so much fun.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
They are so much fun.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
All right, So before we take our last break, is
there any other specific kind of words of wisdom that
you or whether it's advice or just tips, anything for
our fellow sixes or maybe somebody that lives with the
six parents a six has a six as a roommate
(39:49):
on just best practices, especially in the in the realm
of clutter an organization.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
I would say it more of like.
Speaker 5 (40:07):
Just kind of pay attention, like I was saying, really
start to understand, learn more about you as a six
and what is involved with being a six. I mean,
the enneagram is so complex and so deep. There's so
much to learn, and the more you learn that it's
more layers. It's like peeling the onion.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
You're just say that all the time, you're just peeling
them back and you're learning more.
Speaker 5 (40:30):
And the more that you're aware, the more you can
start to recognize your own patterns, and the more graceful
you can be with yourself. I think that's a big piece,
is just understanding and recognizing that you know, you're not
perfect and that's okay, and you know, here's how you
can maneuver through that. I think just understanding that piece
(40:52):
and having that awareness is super powerful. And every six
is going to be a little bit different. You know,
if you have a six with a five wing versus
a six wing. You know, there's so many other complexities
that you don't have. But just knowing, you know, understanding
more about what's really true for you and just owning
that if you will, and being being able to receive.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
That, and I think that's great. And I just want
to also add on because we do also have a
lot of other professional organizers who listen.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
To our show. And so for people that are using
the anagram as a.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Tool to help as they're working with clients, one of
the wonderful benefits of knowing the anagram and being able
to kind of incorporate that into my practice when I'm
working one on one with people is to be able
to hold space for them because knowing that a six,
especially if they are not as sophisticated in knowing the
(41:47):
anagram at all or kind of where their pitfalls are,
and they just know that they have this fear, this anxiety,
and when they're working to declutter, if they feel like
this need to hold onto things for that what if
worst case scenario might need this, I might need that
factor that in right, to factor that in that their
(42:07):
decision making is not going to be as quick as
if you were working with an eight or three or
some of the other types on the enneagram. They are
going to care, they are going to maybe struggle a
little bit, and it just like I say with my fours,
and I've learned this just as a parent working with
my daughter, is you know, a test that might take
(42:27):
me five minutes might take her twenty.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
And that's again not for all fours.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
But you know, I just know now that I'm going
to give myself that time so that she could work
through that process of going through Okay, what's the real
what's the what's the likelihood I will need this?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
How often have I had to come back to it?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Like, I have a whole checklist of kind of questions
and prompts that that are that can go for anybody,
but specifically targeted for sixes to help them to say,
all right, is this my own.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Or is this fact? And when you're looking at the facts,
I probably can get rid of this.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
If I'm just getting into my own fear based head,
this is where I'm being bottlenecked. And so for anybody
that is going to be working with somebody as they're
navigating this clutter, navigating through their clutter, just remember that
they need to work through that process. Don't force feed it,
don't say quick, you got to make a decision right
this second, because.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
It's not as always as easy.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Yeah, And I'll just real quick. Six is asked a
lot of questions.
Speaker 5 (43:35):
That is, we ask a lot of questions, and just
being able to allow them the space to ask those
questions because that will also help them to build trust
and authority, which they're they're coming to you, you know,
if you're a professional organizer, they're coming to you as
that authority person.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
So allowing them those questions, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
I love that. That's great.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Okay, So before we go to our last break, just
tell our listeners where can they find you?
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Connect up, learn more all the things.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Sure, so on Instagram.
Speaker 5 (44:03):
I am on the sixth sish and I Know It
page and you can find me there. And then also
my website which is Angie Robertson dot com and it's
a n g ee and Robertson.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Dot com and we will link up to all things Angie.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
So yes, any of our people out there that are
entrepreneurs that might be looking for a virtual assistant, look
up Angie.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
She's pretty awesome.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Absolutely all right, we're gonna take one more quick break
and then we're gonna just put you in the hot
seat for a wrap up question. So sit tight, all right, Angie.
This has been so much fun. Thank you so much
for coming in and sharing about six as. I could
talk about the Inteagram all day, but I know we
both have jobs to do, so I will not keep
you all day. But before I do let you go,
we always ask our guests a few questions. So the
(44:49):
first question that I love to ask is, I don't
know if you're a reader or not, but if you are,
what is a book that has been really rational?
Speaker 3 (45:01):
You can't say the road back to you.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Start it, but you know you can, you can, you
totally can. It's fine. I was going to say, so, yeah,
a book that's been that's been really transformational in your
life and you totally can say it's fine.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
Yeah, yeah, it would be the roadback to you.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
I mean, that's one that I go back to frequently
because you know, not only am I learning about my
own number, I want to learn about others. And you know,
like you said, you don't, you don't really you don't
want to ever type somebody, but to recognize things and
others to kind of be able to help you navigate
working with you know, dealing with people, working with people.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Because people are complex.
Speaker 5 (45:41):
So having that kind of knowledge of thinking somebody might
be this number, it just helps you to kind of
approach things and have a little bit more compassion for someone.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Absolutely no, I I agree, And it's what it's one
of my go to books.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
At all.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
I remember the year it came out, I had gotten
it and I gave it to people for Christmas.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
I bought like ten copies and I was like here
and I was like sticking to everybody's.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Stocking, and half the people haven't read it, I'm sure,
But now I'm like, don't you remember I gave you
that book exactly? So yes, I'm a big believer in
that book as well. You'll have to check out our
episode I had Ian on our show a couple of
years ago when we were doing when I first kicked
off my Ennagram stuff. So that was awesome.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Okay, now our last question that we ask every guest,
which is in this particular season of your life, where
do you feel the most organized and where do you
feel like a bit of a hot mess?
Speaker 4 (46:40):
Gosh, I mean my home.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
I definitely, you know, try to keep that as organized
as possible for that very reason, just not to be overstimulated.
Speaker 4 (46:52):
Hot mess. Any space that I share with my husband
is I love him nearly. He's just different.
Speaker 5 (47:03):
He's different in the way that he handles things, and
he does have that tendency to kind of keep things
because he thinks he might need it.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
One day. But he's getting way better. He's so much
better than he was.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
But yeah, any any area of the house, whether it's
you know, his office like I said, but that's his
domain gage, you know, that's all this stuff too, But yeah,
I would say those would be the areas where.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah, that's so funny, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Well, thank you very much, Angie for coming on our show.
Thank you for facilitating this awesome group of success and
know it and for pulling your people home when you're
asking these questions.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
So I think it's so great.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
And if this is your first time tuning in, welcome
to our show.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
We are all over on YouTube and on.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Social media this organized life podcast. You can also check
out all of our offerings, including digital courses and frameworks
and checklists and all the things at simplyborganized dot com.
All of our links to everything that we talk about
are in our show notes, and we release new episodes
every Thursday, so make sure that you click the subscribe
(48:16):
button wherever you listen to podcasts, and you can have
all new episodes downloaded each and every week.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
So until then, I'm Lolri palou Pi
Welcome to This Organized Life. If you're a mom, wife,
or coffee lover seeking advice on how to reduce clutter
and reclaim time, look no further than your host, Louri Palau,
Founder Simply Be Organized and author of Hot Mess, a
practical guide to getting organized. For a lot of people,
clutter is their dirty little secret, but it doesn't have
to be. Each week, we will share practical tips, chat
(00:22):
with experts, and provide strategies on how to keep you organized.
I hope that by sharing our stories you feel a
little less alone and more empowered to tackle the areas
that are holding you back. So let's get started.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hi everybody, and welcome to today's episode of This Organized
Life podcast. I am your host, Lori Palau, and we
are a little over the midpoint of our Enneagram and
Clutter Summer series, and I hope you're enjoying it as
much as I am. I love chatting with guests, period, period,
(01:01):
full stop. But I love chatting about the anagram, period
full stop. And so I love chatting with guests who
talk about the anagram, who know about the anagram and
have been using it as a tool in their lives,
whether it's personally professionally, relationally, and that's what the series
is all about, is just bringing some education and awareness
(01:22):
and seeing how you can be the best version of yourself.
And I am a huge proponent of the anagram. This
is something that I've been studying for the past five
years and if you want to learn more about that,
I have a whole framework on my website which you
guys can go check out at simplybeorganized dot com. And
if you also haven't listened to the other episodes in
(01:46):
this summer series, I highly encourage you to go back
and listen because we've had some amazing guests that have
been talking about everything from their personal to professional life
from their Anygram ones, twos, threes, fours.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
And five.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So today we are about to hear from our Anagram
sixes or six guests and joining me is Angie Robertson.
And Angie is a lot of you might know or
She facilitates the Instagram handle six ish and know it Professionally,
(02:24):
she runs her own virtual.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Assistant company in Florida.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
She helps other people who are interested in starting their
own virtual assistant businesses, which is not unlike what I
do with the SBO Partner program. Helping encourage people who
want to start their own professional organizing businesses. So we
have so many overlaps that we can talk about. But
I specifically invited Angie on the show today to talk
(02:51):
about her life as an Anagram six and she's going
to elaborate on that. Obviously, the Anagram sixes are the loyalists.
We're going to talk a little bit of about what
their core motivation is, how that shows up in her life,
how she learned about the anagram, and how she kind
of has used this as a tool to help her
(03:11):
be the best version of herself professionally and personally. So,
without further ado, let me welcome my friend Angie robertson
to the show.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Welcome Angie, Thank you Laurie for having me.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I am so excited. So tell our listeners. I gave
a very top line overview, but tell our listeners.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
A little bit about who you are, and then we.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Can kind of dive in to how you even got
started with the anagram.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Okay, perfect.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
So yes, I have been running my own virtual assistant
practice for the last twenty years. It's absolutely the perfect
business for an Aneagram six because you have that loyalist
and I have one client that's been with me for
fifteen of those twenty years, So gives you any indication
that my sixness comes out in.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
That for sure?
Speaker 5 (04:04):
And I work with clients virtually all over the world
throughout the years and really love it. And now just recently,
about two years ago, I opened up my own school
to help anyone that's interested in becoming a virtual assistant
to start their own business so that they can have
their own thriving practice. And I certainly kind of tap
(04:25):
it a little bit to Neagram sixes and ones because
they kind of both like the admin role. They're kind
of they love that commitment and loyalty and being able
to solve problems and also organize and be detailed, which.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Are perfect for both of those Enneagram numbers.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I was just I was just going to say, I
was curious to know if you see like trends, because
obviously being and I have a virtual assistant, I love,
I mean, the value especially for entrepreneurs out there who
there's things that need to happen from accounting, administrative to
back end you know, website stuff, everything that needs you know, email, marketing,
(05:05):
you name it, all of the nuts and bolts of
your business that need to happen if you don't have
time to do it. Hiring a VA is I highly recommended.
It's I've you know, employed vas for the better part
of my professional career. But what I was going to
say was, do you you need to have a really
(05:25):
strong attention to detail to do that job? So is
do you start to see trends now that you're working
with other people that there are certain enneagram types?
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Obviously I haven't really seen a whole lot of trends
yet in terms of like the types of clients that
come in and work with me as I do. I
have seen and run a couple of polls, especially on
the six or six ersent and I note page that
a lot of sixes are drawn to the admin fields.
They do kind of show up, and so that in
that field and ones as well as another one that
(05:58):
hint tends to be drawn to that field.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Okay, I have some ideas about that, So talk a
little bit about For most of.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Our listeners, especially if they've been around our show for
a little bit of a time, have some familiarity with
the anagram and the different types.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
But in case somebody is new or doesn't know.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Can you just give an overview, like a ten thousand
foot overview of what the characteristics are of an anagram six?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (06:25):
So for an enneagram six, our kind of core motivation
is fear. Fear of fear itself. We kind of see
worst case scenario and that can a lot of times
that can come across as a negative and people see
that as a negative. Oh my gosh, you're always worried
about the other shoe dropping, if you will. But I
(06:48):
always look at worst case scenario and a lot of
sixes feel this way as well. We're really out there
to help people see pitfalls that they wouldn't normally see.
And so that's one of our gifts in our superpowers
I like to call it, is that we get to
see holes in your plan that you would never know
and we bring those to the forefront so you can say,
oh my gosh, I totally miss that, and I can
(07:11):
you know, now I can go and do something about it,
which again makes for a great virtual system as well,
because we see that as six.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
As we see those pitfalls, we do tend to we're
in the head triad.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
We tend to live in our head a lot much
like ones live in their heads, where ones.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Have a critical committee in their head.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
Six is just have a committee that's just talking all
the time and given ideas and thoughts and different things,
and you're just constantly thinking worst case scenario. And it's
not so much criticism as it is just always thinking
and planning ahead and kind of thinking about what might happen.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
So that's one of the other characteristics.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
The other one is what I alluded to a minute ago,
is that we're loyalists. So we are loyal and we
love tonnect with people.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
We love to.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Make real strong bonds, and we love to forge deep relationships,
and we like to go deep with people more than
we like surface conversations. The other side to that, though,
is the minute you know, we also have a we
don't learn to trust ourselves, and so we're always seeking
outside authority. And so as soon as we will trust authority,
(08:25):
until we don't trust authority, and then when we don't
trust authority, we are flat out like write them off,
kind of you know, done with.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
You don't trust you anymore. So it can kind of
be sticky on both ends.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I think that's really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well, first of all, thanks for walking us through that,
and I couldn't help. And a lot of what I'm
saying is just complete, broad strict generalization, so please don't
like shoot the messenger.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
People, take what I'm about to say with a grain
of salt. I wonder.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I'm curious because if a lot of the people that
could you, I mean, everybody that's an entrepreneur, I think
could pretty much use a virtual assistant. Again, I said that,
but I feel like threes because they're very big picture
people and we just we're recording this on the day
that we just dropped our episode with twos and threes,
(09:15):
and my husband's a three, and I know, like details
are not his specialty, Like he's a very big picture
and like, so I would think that a six three
combo would be really beneficial because you would be kind
of going over or sixes or ones that are kind
of going over that with a fine tooth comb to
(09:37):
see kind of those potholes that perhaps that big picture
like visionary type three would just put out there might
be something.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I was just kind of.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
Sure, well, And plus, as a six, we go to
three in stress actually and we go to nine in hell.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
So yeah, I mean, there is that correlation. We surely
understand a three and where they're coming from.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
And I will say, I mean, I haven't really sat
down to say, okay, hey, what's the common number that
shows up? But I do see a lot of threes
come in. I see a lot of eights come in too.
Into yeah, come in and for virtual assistance and eights.
Eights are powerhouses to work with. I love working with
eights because they are very focused, they know where they're going,
and when they get somebody they trust, they offload the
(10:19):
details and they want to focus on what they're meanting.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And for people that are that are just listening, I
like raised my hand because as you know, I'm an eight.
And that's the thing is, I don't want to make
or manage you like I trust you to do your thing.
And if I delegate it and you tell me you've
got it, I'm like good to go.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah that's it. Just give me an update.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And exactly which I love. I love if. I personally
love working with eights, and I've worked with a lot.
I've worked with a lot of eights through through my business,
so yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, and again I think it's I think it's great
and I love the fact I think it does make
a lot of sense. That's that sixes thrive in the
admin space. And again for anybody that it's new to
the anagram, I don't want to stereotype and say if
you're this type you should have this job, or this type.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
You should have.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Any anagram type could be in any career. There are
just certain roles or industries that tend to lend themselves
to different types. But that's not, again a general blanket statement,
but because I feel that a lot of times six
is like having you said, that default of having some
(11:27):
direction that would lend itself to like tell me what
you want and then you're comfortable. When you are comfortable
in where your own space is, then you can thrive.
But it's when you're unsure, and that's where I think
a lot of times the.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Clutter piece comes in.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And I love That's where I love to really kind
of steer this conversation is there's so much unknown and
overwhelm when it comes to clutter and organization. And for
sixes who oftentimes doubt themselves, do you use see that.
I'm curious from your perspective in your life, how that's
(12:04):
kind of presented itself in terms of that, you know, aspect.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Well, for me, I tended and I did a poll
of my of the community because I wanted to make
sure I was like aff weirdo six or anything. I
wanted to represent the majority of sixes here. And it
went one of two ways. It went one way where
sixus felt that overwhelm and like not knowing where to
(12:31):
start and kind of not having that direction like you
were saying. And then there was the other that said,
I need to be organized because that gives me peace
and that helps to keep me calm and I'm not
feeling chaotic and I don't have anxiety. I fall more
into that category where I need to have my space
(12:53):
cleared so that I feel more calm and grounded, and
then I'm not in anks and I'm not overstimulating. My
space is like my space is very neutral colors. I
don't have all I have black, white, gray, and tan
or like my basic but it keeps me very Having
that neutral space keeps me over like I'm not over
(13:13):
stimulated with things because there's so much I'm overstimulating with
my work multiple you know, managing multiple clients and outside
the world is overstimulating. Social media is over stimulating, so
I need a place that's not and that that would be.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
My home for me.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, oh, I love it. I think that's really fascinating.
And I like that because and I think that could
be true for a lot of types. Is you have
you know, you're either not either or but like there
are some people that kind of fall into one spectrum
versus you know, the other type. And I know for me,
(13:49):
some of the experience that I've seen with my clients,
Like I remember a few years ago before COVID I
had when it was probably so I started my podcasts
in twenty seven seen and that was also the year
I released my book, and so it was probably around
twenty eighteen or so I started getting like a lot
of outreach from people that were outside of my geographic
(14:11):
area because before that I was you know, servicing people
and I had kind of a reputation locally. But then
all of a sudden, I had this like bigger you know,
following if you will, And so I started getting people
that were reaching out to me that were saying, do
you you know, do you travel, what do you do?
And that's also around the same time I started the
(14:31):
SBO partner program to help connect them with other professional
organizers that were local to them.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
But what I started doing.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Is saying because at that time, I didn't have any
kind of structure set up for that, and so I
started to saying, well, I can help with some kind
of like virtual coaching. This is again before virtual was
as big as it was in the professional organizing space.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
And I can give you like a roadmap, but I'm.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Not there because you live in Seattle and I'm in Pennsylvania.
And a couple of people liked it, and it was
something that I wasn't didn't set out to do, but
it was kind of like just by default. But I
noticed a lot of people were like, no, no, no,
I really want you to come and sit with me
(15:16):
and go through it with me. And you're not supposed
to type people and I'm not typing people. But I
guess I've had hypothesized over the years, are a lot
of the people that really want that one on one support,
Like do they fall into that sixth camp Because most
(15:38):
of the time I'm just validating what they're already knowing.
I'm just I'm giving them permission. Like when I'm sitting
with somebody, I'm giving them, Okay, here's how we're going
to do it. We're going to put the strategy. But
then at the end of the day, they're making the decisions.
I'm just saying way to go, or maybe challenge them
(16:00):
a little bit. But I think sometimes once people get
that again that permission air quote, because he already needs
my permission, but they feel that permission of that they're
not making a wrong decision or that they're on the
right track.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
That's when they feel empowered to do it on their own.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
And that's where that sixes don't trust themselves. They and
they seek outside authority to validate really what they already know.
I mean, what they already It's just they aren't trusting themselves.
That's a big one of the biggest issues I face
for myself as a six is that trusting authority and
having to learn how to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So how do you navigate that if somebody's out there
listening and saying, oh my gosh, I struggle with that too, Like,
what are some of the things that you've done to
kind of work through that?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
And obviously you know this has been actually we didn't
even get into how did you learn about that?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Any Graham let's let's put a pin in that question
and go back to kind of your anagram.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Sure, it was probably about five years ago.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
I have no idea how I came across the book
The Road Back to You by Susanne Stabile and Ian Cron.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Somehow I got my hands on that book.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
I think it would I think if I think back correctly.
My husband we were concerned that he might have Asperger syndrome,
and so I was doing some research. Somehow I came
across the enneagram and it was intriguing to me. I
found the book and started reading the numbers and I
got to A nine and I was like, oh my gosh,
(17:32):
this is my husband so much, and it's like him
to a t. So I took the book to him
and let him read it, and he was like, oh
my gosh, this is me, Like who, what did you write?
Speaker 4 (17:42):
What did somebody interview me?
Speaker 5 (17:44):
It was just it spoke to him so much and
he felt and we both said, oh, you don't have
possiable like he took the test and he doesn't have
it Asperger syndromes. But it was like, oh my gosh,
this is why you act and react and do things
the way that you do. It's it's been based off
of the characteristics of this this number, this enneagram number.
So that set me often to just researching more. Of course,
(18:08):
I didn't know my number and being a six, that's
very common for six not to know their number, and
like not agree with being a six.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yes, and and if you and again for for anybody
that fils. I was told I don't know if this
is still true or not true, but that sixes are
the most common type.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Yeah, that's what I've heard too.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, and it's interesting because I personally don't have a
lot of sixes in my life. Yeah, I have a
lot of other types, but sixes are not as common
in my personal space unless they're just again not not identified.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Maybe miss type or mistype, which they very they very
well can be.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
A lot of them will miss type as twos. Sometimes
they'll miss type is ones. But yeah, I mean I
took the test. I can't tell you how many times
I took a test, and then I.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Found out, really a test is kind of not the
full proof thing. You just kind of need to dive
into it absolutely. Oh, I mean I took a test.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
I took the test so many times, and every time
I came back, but I came back as What was interesting,
I was come back as a seven. I would come
back as a nine. I would come back as a two,
and so it was it all fit.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
It's just that wasn't my number.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
But I had the opportunity to go see Susan Stabile
in person right before the pandemic happened, right before everything
shut down.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
She's great, I've I've gone to a bunch of her
in person workshops.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
It was so awesome. It was a know your Number workshop.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I went.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
It was a two day workshop.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
My husband and I both went, and I was like,
I'm going to find out what my number is once
and for all. I'm done with this second guessing. When
she my husband, every time she would go through a number,
I'd look at him. He's like, that's not you. When
when she got to the sixes, he was like, that's you.
And I was crying because I felt like I finally
had words to my actions, Like I had a description
(19:55):
of how I felt and how I show up and
I could put words to it now and somebody understood that.
And I knew then that was absolutely my number was
b a six and I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I love that, and I agree because and I always say,
I think it's what I love about the endagram is
that it helps to give you language.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
It gives language and context.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Again not an excuse for poor behavior, but it also
just a lot of times people don't know how to
explain why they and especially and I see this with
clutter a lot. Where why does it stress you out
so much? Why do you feel the need to control
(20:39):
this situation? And when you have this understanding, you have
this language and this knowledge, you can then either a
stop yourself and kind of work through the strategies. You
can also have some grace for yourself in those spaces,
and you can lean into the parts of you that
are really awesome, like you said that are the superpowers,
(21:01):
and maybe the areas that are a little bit more struggling,
like if you know that you're somebody that is prone to,
you know, the anxiety fear piece, you know, if emotional
clutter is something that you might struggle with, And we'll
get to that. What parameters, what boundaries can you put
into your own life to say, Okay, I'm starting to
(21:24):
fall into this behavior, let me go through this checklist
or whatever, to say, is this true?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Is this fact? Do I need this? Do I not?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
But without having that knowledge of where this is coming from,
you know, you're just in this fight or flight mode exactly.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
That's the other thing I love about the enneagram is
it brings to light and it brings your awareness. So
you start to pause for a minute and recognize, oh,
I'm spinning right now, I'm in my head and I'm
spinning and I'm doing worst case scenario.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Okay, what's that about?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
And it just helps bring awareness and you start to
pay attention more to yourself and how you respond to things,
and you can recognize those patterns so that you can
move more towards the healthy nine. In my case, as
a say yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
We're going to take a quick break and when we're
going to come back. When we come back, I want
to talk about something that you mentioned earlier, which is
about being in the head triad, and I want to
just elaborate on that a little bit and talk about
the different types of clutter because I think that'll just
segue really nicely. So sit tight, everybody, and we will
be right back, all right, Angie. So you mentioned earlier
(22:34):
that sixes are in the head triad and again I
know what that is, but for people that are out
there that might not.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
So there are.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Three centers of intelligence that they it's called in the
anagram world, which are thinking, feeling, and doing. And so
within the anagram spectrum of core numbers, you either fall
into you have a dominant center for everybody, and you
either fall into being in the head triad, which means
that you are thinking dominant, you fall in the gut triad,
(23:06):
which means that you are doing dominant or feeling dominant,
which you're in the heart triad. And so for sixes
along with fives and seven, so five, six, and sevens
are in the head triad, meaning that they are thinking dominant.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
So it would make sense.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
That you would be in your head a bit. And
I know you're a six with a five wing if
I'm not mistaken, right, So you definitely are thinking because
fives are our analytical thinkers, so you are constantly your
reels are always turning when it comes to that thought process,
which can be really great until that thought prohibit you
(23:45):
from taking action.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And so I guess for me, it would be helpful
if you could share our audience and we talked a
little bit about this again with you said you need
that physical space to be and soothing, so we hear
it at simply be organized. In this Organized Life podcast,
talk about three main types of clutter. Your physical clutter
stuff that you see, you know, dishes in the sink, laundry, toys.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
All that stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You're what I call emotional clutter, which is the feelings
either that stems from either guilt, fear, sentimental value, things
of that nature that hold you back from taking action.
Or what I call calendar clutter, which is that time
management piece, and that again could stem from like for example,
(24:36):
like A two could struggle with calendar clutter because they
have trouble saying no setting healthy boundaries.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Again, very very much stereotyping.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
But I'm wondering, for you and your own words, if
any of those three of the three, which one speaks
to you the most.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
In terms of like dominant for you?
Speaker 5 (24:56):
I would say emotional for sure, because we do have
that fear that we're always up against where whether it
shows the worst case scenario, oh I might need this
one day, or it can go to the other side
of not trusting myself enough to take the action and
I'll just let something sit or you know, just not
(25:19):
deal with it. So yeah, I would say it's it's
kind of funny because it in some respects as six
as we can be kind of shut off from emotions
at times, so it's funny to say emotional but then
sometimes feel like we're cut off.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
But that does play into emotions as well.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
So yeah, I would definitely save a six, and I
see that with other sixes, Like when I did the
kind of pull the community, that's the kind of the
sense that I got as well was emotional.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Well, thank you for validating me and the work that
I'm doing. Okay, I'm glad that you know. Good, right answer,
right answer. No, But and that's that's it.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And I'm glad that you said that about the emotional
because I think most people think emotion sad or dramatic,
because that's kind of the word the image that conjures up.
But what I found is that there's kind of different
types of emotional clutter. You have those people that are
let me stroll down memory lane, let me be everything.
(26:17):
You know, my daughter's a four and everything has feelings.
So there's that level of emotional clutter, but it's not
fear based it's not that what if that what if scenario.
And so even before I knew the enneagram, like I
developed this framework, the physical emotional calendar. This was like
early on in my career, and so that's when I
started to learn the anagram. I started saying, Okay, well
(26:40):
can we how can we weave these together? And I
started seeing, well, a lot of times sixes struggle with
that indecision, which is what I call one of the
five clutter pitfalls, right, our five clutter pitfalls again, and
everybody can struggle with them, but for different reasons. So
they're procrastination, which is the hull I'll get to it later,
(27:03):
in decision, which is I don't know what to do,
so I'm not gonna do anything, you know, I'm just
gonna put it over here, because if I don't do anything,
I can't make a mistake. And I see that probably
is something that could be.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Like a through line for sixes for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
And then you've got guilt, which may or may not
be but again I feel like guilt's really big for two,
you know, And then you've got overwhelmed, which is just
I think I think we all can struggle, which just
overwhelm you know, we're just getting to this point of
like I'm just I don't know what to do, and
then time, which is just I don't have the time
(27:39):
to do it. And so again what I found is
each Enneagram type can struggle with any of those, but
for completely different reasons. Right, A one is going to
procrastinate for a very different reason than a seven.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And that's really what we want to look at as.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Okay, so if we know we're doing this, what are
the strategies that we can put into place? And so
that kind of can bring me back to my earlier question,
which is, for you, especially in your career, what strategies
have you found to live an organized life?
Speaker 5 (28:14):
For me, I think it's it's like I was saying earlier,
just being aware and knowing and giving myself grace when
I started to see a pattern, but noticing it and
giving myself grace to make a.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Correction on that and kind of course correct.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
I think that's been huge for me, is just to
be aware, really, I mean, and that's been the study
of the enneagram doing that, you know, it's been for
the last five years now, I've been kind of studying it,
and it's always I'm always learning something and I'm always
uncovering something, you know. Having the six page really an
(28:57):
Instagram really kind of helped as well. And being on
that community and surrounding myself with other sixes and just
kind of supporting each other. That's really helped to know
and to be able to grow further and to move
more into the healthy side of a six, which means
that I am tapping a little bit more into my
(29:18):
nine and being peaceful and just kind of allowing things
to go if they need to go, Like if you know,
it's especially living with a nine, who I was.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Going to say, because you have that dynamic, right, there's
that kind of three six nine dynamic.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
What is that relationship?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Like, it's great.
Speaker 5 (29:41):
I have to be careful that he doesn't. I always
want to make sure I tell him this. We joke
about it, but I'm also very serious that he you know,
because nine's they have a voice, but they don't realize
they have a voice. And so I'm always trying to
affirm him that you know, your voice matters, and I
want to know what you want to do, and I
want to know you know what matters to you. We
(30:04):
were complete opposites when it came to organizing, he is
very much I might need this one day, and like
keeps all the things, and I've moved, I've been able
to move beyond that to where if I need it
one day, I'll just go buy another one.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
That's kind of the way I've adopted now.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
Sure, and now he's starting to and I had to
let him get there on his own. I didn't want
him to do it because nines tend to merge. So
they'll merge to keep peace, they'll merge to be with people,
and so I want to make sure that he came
to that on his own where he's starting to say,
you know what, I don't. I don't need this. I
can go get another one if I need it, and
(30:42):
kind of adopt that same philosophy and seeing that way.
But it was a struggle for a little bit and
to where. I mean, he has his office now, and
like he that's his space, and I don't tell him
what he needs to do in there.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
I let him if he wants stats of paper everywhere,
he can have I don't.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
That's not my domain, that's his, sure, but everything else
needs to be around, yeah, my sanity. Yeah, So it's also.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
Not trying to to project what I want onto him
and force him into something that's just not his nature.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
So yes, and I think again, people underestimate and you know,
correct me if you feel otherwise, but people underestimate the
power of what your physical space looks like and how
you are able to be productive and calm and anxiety
(31:40):
like to reduce anxiety. You know, so many people when
they are in a space that is chaotic and then
they are chaotic, they don't always connect the dots that
if I were to And again, not that it's a
cure all not that if you have an empty desk
or kitchen counter that doesn't have anything on it, that
that means you're going to be, like you know, a
(32:01):
zen person all the time. But there is a connection
point between this, and I'm wondering, especially since I would
say you're.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Prone to that anxiety.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Being an enneagram six, your your reels are always turning.
I suspect, right of like you said, And I'm hoping
you can elaborate a little bit on kind of that
inner that committee of people in your head, or how
that plays out, because I think when that's always going
having the serenity of your physical space being organized probably.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Helps to maybe neutralize that a little bit. Is that correct?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (32:40):
Absolutely absolutely. It's like what I was saying earlier, this
is this is my home is a key. It's not
overstimulating to me. I mean I need that because I
am overstimulated in my head just from.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
All the messages.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
I mean, we're the most plugged in generation of information.
I mean, we're in information overload, if you will, and
so it's super important. And I would say I wasn't
always like this, and I would and my space didn't
really reflect me until maybe about seven years ago, and
I really started to kind of understand.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
More of who I was.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
And then when I found the enneagram, I really started
to understand more of who I was.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
And so then my space are to reflect more of
the healthy side.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
Of me and more of the way I operate my business,
and it started to you know, all kind of connect
But not to say that I still don't have that
inner those you know, just always always always thinking, constantly thinking,
constantly thinking worst case scenario. I mean, it could even
be it could be something that I'm having to deal with,
(33:47):
or it can be something a client, you know, I'm
having to help a client with always just thinking about
what if?
Speaker 4 (33:55):
What if?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
What if?
Speaker 4 (33:57):
That's a constant with me.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
My husband when he found out, when he when we
both realized I was a six, and he started to
understand and really start to learn more about how a
six is. He loves to go to Disney World. He
absolutely loves it. It's his favorite place. I cannot stand
it because it's so overstimulating for me. But I didn't
have words to tell him that, right, and so when
(34:22):
he started to understand, and like, especially if he wanted
me to go on a roller coastery type ride, you know,
a real daredevil type ride, it would I would literally
almost have a panic attack because I'm thinking of how
I could die on that ride.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Okay, well I'm an eight and I think that too.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So my family has banned me from going to amusement
parks with them because I am a nervous and I'm
not a nervous nelly in a lot of most areas
of my life.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
But I'm like, I could be.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
A six if you could, if you could, I know
you can't switch types, but if I if I could
switch a type in a situation, I would be chatteling
my intersex.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Well that's me.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
So when he finally understand that, he goes, I understand
now why you don't like Disney World. I understand why
you're panicked when I ask you to go on a ride.
I get it now, and I'm like.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Thank you, Yeah, you know so yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
And that's the beauty of understanding the enneagram type and
like getting to really understand you and like you were saying,
it's not to.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
Box you in or to make you have an excuse
for any type of behavior.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
It's just really helps you to put language and awareness
to who you are and how you kind of function
and respond to things.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Let me ask you another question, So do you feel
because I've also worked with some clients that again, because
they have that kind of self doubt, I have found
that visual remind or like visual prompts are really helpful
to I don't want to say I'm trying to think.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Of even the right word, but to encourage them to
keep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
So let me give you like a practical, real life example.
So I have a client that I work with for years.
I suspect she's a six. Again, don't know for sure,
but I suspect that she is, and so I take
it some before.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Pictures kind of like before and after pictures, if you will.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
And we've been working together on and off for several
months on like different aspects of her home, and one
day she was just feeling really dejected, like I feel
like every time I, you know, start to get ahead,
something happens and I kind of fall off my organizing bandwagon.
And I pulled up some pictures from like when we
first started, and I.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Was like, look at how far you've come. Yes, you
might not.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Be exactly where you want to be, but like I'm
giving you a show. I'm showing you, like, look at
how much better or further along you are than you're
giving yourself credit for.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
And I think you could plug that into anything.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
You can plug that into weight loss or you know,
an exercise, you could plug that into finances.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
But just having that, you know, whether it's checking stuff
off a to do list.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Do you find that having some sort of visual prompts
is a tool that has been helpful for you?
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (37:11):
I would call it for me, examples, examples or even reflection. Okay,
I do really well with examples. If I have an
example of something, then that helps you. And I think
that probably goes back to that authority piece. And why
we seek out authority is we're really seeking out authority
to be that example of what we're already capable of doing. Really, yes, yeah,
(37:35):
and so for me, examples are huge. I mean, I
here's a nerdy kind of organizing thing. About a year ago,
I took I digital journals, so I use an iPad
and I have an app, and I do all my
journaling digitally. Well, I decided I wanted to take all
my handwritten, like hard copy journals and scan them into
(37:55):
my digital journals so I would have everything in one place,
so I didn't. I took that task on scan them
all in. And now what I loved it doing is
the like today, I would go back, however many years
I might have an entry for this exact day two
years ago, three years ago and read to see what
(38:16):
was I experience and then what was I thinking.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
About, what was I what was going on in my life.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
I'm absolutely loving it because it helps me to see
where I've been and where I'm going and what I
was experiencing then, and oh my gosh, I'm still experiencing
that now, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Oh my gosh. I love that. I love that that's
you know, I think that's that's a really that's a
really great exercise. That seems like a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
But I but I mean, I think that's that's I
think that's great. But yeah, that does make a lot
of sense to be able to kind of document your
progress if you will. Yeah, you know, and I guess
being in the head try it and with that five
way of knowing that like having that research and facts
is what's going to also help you to take action
(39:08):
is probably really helpful for you versus a six with
a seven wing that is a whole other you know,
with the seven's being our you know, kind of our
free spirit people.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
They're the fun they are. They are so much fun.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
They are so much fun.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
All right, So before we take our last break, is
there any other specific kind of words of wisdom that
you or whether it's advice or just tips, anything for
our fellow sixes or maybe somebody that lives with the
six parents a six has a six as a roommate
(39:49):
on just best practices, especially in the in the realm
of clutter an organization.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
I would say it more of like.
Speaker 5 (40:07):
Just kind of pay attention, like I was saying, really
start to understand, learn more about you as a six
and what is involved with being a six. I mean,
the enneagram is so complex and so deep. There's so
much to learn, and the more you learn that it's
more layers. It's like peeling the onion.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
You're just say that all the time, you're just peeling
them back and you're learning more.
Speaker 5 (40:30):
And the more that you're aware, the more you can
start to recognize your own patterns, and the more graceful
you can be with yourself. I think that's a big piece,
is just understanding and recognizing that you know, you're not
perfect and that's okay, and you know, here's how you
can maneuver through that. I think just understanding that piece
(40:52):
and having that awareness is super powerful. And every six
is going to be a little bit different. You know,
if you have a six with a five wing versus
a six wing. You know, there's so many other complexities
that you don't have. But just knowing, you know, understanding
more about what's really true for you and just owning
that if you will, and being being able to receive.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
That, and I think that's great. And I just want
to also add on because we do also have a
lot of other professional organizers who listen.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
To our show. And so for people that are using
the anagram as a.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Tool to help as they're working with clients, one of
the wonderful benefits of knowing the anagram and being able
to kind of incorporate that into my practice when I'm
working one on one with people is to be able
to hold space for them because knowing that a six,
especially if they are not as sophisticated in knowing the
(41:47):
anagram at all or kind of where their pitfalls are,
and they just know that they have this fear, this anxiety,
and when they're working to declutter, if they feel like
this need to hold onto things for that what if
worst case scenario might need this, I might need that
factor that in right, to factor that in that their
(42:07):
decision making is not going to be as quick as
if you were working with an eight or three or
some of the other types on the enneagram. They are
going to care, they are going to maybe struggle a
little bit, and it just like I say with my fours,
and I've learned this just as a parent working with
my daughter, is you know, a test that might take
(42:27):
me five minutes might take her twenty.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
And that's again not for all fours.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
But you know, I just know now that I'm going
to give myself that time so that she could work
through that process of going through Okay, what's the real
what's the what's the likelihood I will need this?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
How often have I had to come back to it?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Like, I have a whole checklist of kind of questions
and prompts that that are that can go for anybody,
but specifically targeted for sixes to help them to say,
all right, is this my own.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Or is this fact? And when you're looking at the facts,
I probably can get rid of this.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
If I'm just getting into my own fear based head,
this is where I'm being bottlenecked. And so for anybody
that is going to be working with somebody as they're
navigating this clutter, navigating through their clutter, just remember that
they need to work through that process. Don't force feed it,
don't say quick, you got to make a decision right
this second, because.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
It's not as always as easy.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Yeah, And I'll just real quick. Six is asked a
lot of questions.
Speaker 5 (43:35):
That is, we ask a lot of questions, and just
being able to allow them the space to ask those
questions because that will also help them to build trust
and authority, which they're they're coming to you, you know,
if you're a professional organizer, they're coming to you as
that authority person.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
So allowing them those questions, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
I love that. That's great.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Okay, So before we go to our last break, just
tell our listeners where can they find you?
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Connect up, learn more all the things.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Sure, so on Instagram.
Speaker 5 (44:03):
I am on the sixth sish and I Know It
page and you can find me there. And then also
my website which is Angie Robertson dot com and it's
a n g ee and Robertson.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Dot com and we will link up to all things Angie.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
So yes, any of our people out there that are
entrepreneurs that might be looking for a virtual assistant, look
up Angie.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
She's pretty awesome.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Absolutely all right, we're gonna take one more quick break
and then we're gonna just put you in the hot
seat for a wrap up question. So sit tight, all right, Angie.
This has been so much fun. Thank you so much
for coming in and sharing about six as. I could
talk about the Inteagram all day, but I know we
both have jobs to do, so I will not keep
you all day. But before I do let you go,
we always ask our guests a few questions. So the
(44:49):
first question that I love to ask is, I don't
know if you're a reader or not, but if you are,
what is a book that has been really rational?
Speaker 3 (45:01):
You can't say the road back to you.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Start it, but you know you can, you can, you
totally can. It's fine. I was going to say, so, yeah,
a book that's been that's been really transformational in your
life and you totally can say it's fine.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
Yeah, yeah, it would be the roadback to you.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
I mean, that's one that I go back to frequently
because you know, not only am I learning about my
own number, I want to learn about others. And you know,
like you said, you don't, you don't really you don't
want to ever type somebody, but to recognize things and
others to kind of be able to help you navigate
working with you know, dealing with people, working with people.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Because people are complex.
Speaker 5 (45:41):
So having that kind of knowledge of thinking somebody might
be this number, it just helps you to kind of
approach things and have a little bit more compassion for someone.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Absolutely no, I I agree, And it's what it's one
of my go to books.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
At all.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
I remember the year it came out, I had gotten
it and I gave it to people for Christmas.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
I bought like ten copies and I was like here
and I was like sticking to everybody's.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Stocking, and half the people haven't read it, I'm sure,
But now I'm like, don't you remember I gave you
that book exactly? So yes, I'm a big believer in
that book as well. You'll have to check out our
episode I had Ian on our show a couple of
years ago when we were doing when I first kicked
off my Ennagram stuff. So that was awesome.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Okay, now our last question that we ask every guest,
which is in this particular season of your life, where
do you feel the most organized and where do you
feel like a bit of a hot mess?
Speaker 4 (46:40):
Gosh, I mean my home.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
I definitely, you know, try to keep that as organized
as possible for that very reason, just not to be overstimulated.
Speaker 4 (46:52):
Hot mess. Any space that I share with my husband
is I love him nearly. He's just different.
Speaker 5 (47:03):
He's different in the way that he handles things, and
he does have that tendency to kind of keep things
because he thinks he might need it.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
One day. But he's getting way better. He's so much
better than he was.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
But yeah, any any area of the house, whether it's
you know, his office like I said, but that's his
domain gage, you know, that's all this stuff too, But yeah,
I would say those would be the areas where.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah, that's so funny, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Well, thank you very much, Angie for coming on our show.
Thank you for facilitating this awesome group of success and
know it and for pulling your people home when you're
asking these questions.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
So I think it's so great.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
And if this is your first time tuning in, welcome
to our show.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
We are all over on YouTube and on.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Social media this organized life podcast. You can also check
out all of our offerings, including digital courses and frameworks
and checklists and all the things at simplyborganized dot com.
All of our links to everything that we talk about
are in our show notes, and we release new episodes
every Thursday, so make sure that you click the subscribe
(48:16):
button wherever you listen to podcasts, and you can have
all new episodes downloaded each and every week.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
So until then, I'm Lolri palou Pi
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