May 8, 2025 • 43 mins
Hey friends!
I’m so excited to welcome my longtime friend Amy Revell from The Art of Decluttering back to the show. Amy and I go way back—we actually started our podcasting journeys around the same time, and it’s always a treat to catch up with her.
In today’s episode, we’re pulling back the curtain on what it really looks like to juggle podcasting, running a business, and, oh yeah—renovating properties at the same time! Amy shares the inside scoop on a recent renovation project she took on at a neighboring investment property, and let me tell you, it’s a transformation story you won’t want to miss.
But we don’t stop there. We also dive into the fascinating world of entropy (yes, the scientific concept!) and how it relates to the clutter in our homes. Amy breaks down why understanding this idea can totally shift your mindset when it comes to maintaining an organized space.We talk about balancing logic with emotion during the decluttering process, why it’s so hard to let go of certain things, and how to create spaces that truly support your lifestyle—not just your Pinterest board.
What we talk about:
🕕 Juggling podcasting and professional life
🏚️ Amy’s renovation adventure and what she learned
⚛️ How the concept of entropy explains the chaos in our homes
🧠 Emotional vs. logical decision-making when decluttering
💡 Practical, real-life organizing tips you can use todayWhether you’re deep in a reno project or just trying to keep your junk drawer under control, there’s something in this episode for you.
xo,
Laurie
Links Mentioned:
I’m so excited to welcome my longtime friend Amy Revell from The Art of Decluttering back to the show. Amy and I go way back—we actually started our podcasting journeys around the same time, and it’s always a treat to catch up with her.
In today’s episode, we’re pulling back the curtain on what it really looks like to juggle podcasting, running a business, and, oh yeah—renovating properties at the same time! Amy shares the inside scoop on a recent renovation project she took on at a neighboring investment property, and let me tell you, it’s a transformation story you won’t want to miss.
But we don’t stop there. We also dive into the fascinating world of entropy (yes, the scientific concept!) and how it relates to the clutter in our homes. Amy breaks down why understanding this idea can totally shift your mindset when it comes to maintaining an organized space.We talk about balancing logic with emotion during the decluttering process, why it’s so hard to let go of certain things, and how to create spaces that truly support your lifestyle—not just your Pinterest board.
What we talk about:
🕕 Juggling podcasting and professional life
🏚️ Amy’s renovation adventure and what she learned
⚛️ How the concept of entropy explains the chaos in our homes
🧠 Emotional vs. logical decision-making when decluttering
💡 Practical, real-life organizing tips you can use todayWhether you’re deep in a reno project or just trying to keep your junk drawer under control, there’s something in this episode for you.
xo,
Laurie
Links Mentioned:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, they're organizing friends. If you are an aspiring professional organizer,
or maybe you're someone in the early stages of your
organizing business and wondering what the heck is next, don't worry.
I've got you covered here at simply Babe, we offer
two mentoring options to help you grow with confidence. First off,
we have our one on one start anytime program, which
is perfect if you're ready to dive in now. And
(00:21):
our group mentoring Comhork kicks off this coming September, and
that is ideal for somebody who's looking for a little
bit more structure. It's a bit more robust and it's
going to put you immediately in with some community and
give you some extra accountability. So, whether you're looking for
help with pricing or services how to market your business,
either option is going to give you the tools that
(00:42):
you need, and I am here dot guide you every
step of the way. To learn more, visit simplyborganized dot
com or you can click on the link below in
our show notes and you can figure out which option
is best for you. Now, let's build the business that
you have been dreaming about.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Welcome to this organize. If you're a mom, wife, or
coffee lover seeking advice on how to reduce clutter and
reclaim time, look no further than your host, Laurie Pillau,
Founder Simply Be Organized and author of hot Mess, a
practical guide to getting organized. For a lot of people,
clutter is their dirty little secret, but it doesn't have
to be. Each week we will share practical tips, chat
(01:20):
with experts, and provide strategies on how.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
To keep you organized.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I hope that.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
By sharing our stories you feel a little less alone
and more empowered to tackle the areas that are holding
you back.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
So let's get started.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And Hi everybody, and welcome to you today's episode of
This Organized Life. I'm your Storri Palala, and I'm so
happy that you're here. So actually doing something a little
bit different, peeling back the curtain and recording my introduction
(01:52):
after my episode. Just got done recording with my good
friend Amy Ravel from the Art of Decluttering in your
Gonna hear her in a minute. Amy lives in Australia,
and so we in order for us to figure out
a time to record, we are either very early in
(02:13):
one person's time zone and very late in another person's
time zone. And so I did not have the mental
bandwidth to do a clever introduction. I was like, we
just have to get into it, and I'm going to
record it afterwards. So I just want to give you
guys a little bit of introduction on Amy beforehand. She's
the real deal. We've known each other for about eight
(02:34):
years now, maybe eight nine years, gosh. She's also a
organizer turned podcaster, but also sees private clients and loves
to approach organizing and decluttering in a similar vein as
I do, from a very analytical and scientific perspective, but
(02:54):
also bring in that real human, practical dynamic and we
love that. And she's been on my show at least
three times. Don't quote me on what episodes, because I
could not tell you off the top of my head.
But if you just google a new reveil this organized life,
you're going to come up with them. Also, I didn't
because we dove right into conversation. I didn't get a
(03:16):
chance to really talk about some other things that are
happening in our ecosystem here at TOL. We have some
big news for people that are interested on the organizing
side of things, like professionally, so I get a lot
of emails about doing episodes geared for professional organizers, and
(03:40):
it's something that I've struggled with and we've dabbled in
it before, but I wanted to have a dedicated resource
for people just wanting to start or grow an organizing business,
and so we created and it's actually been out for
a little while, but we haven't really done any marketing
for it, to be told, totally honest, with everything going
(04:01):
on with clutter clinics and all the things, but it
is a new podcast. It has owned ourcessity, so you
can go and subscribe to it. Actually, if you're interested
in learning about the business side of the business, go
and subscribe to it. It's literally called start and Grow
and Organizing or start and Grow your organizing business. It's
(04:23):
really like as basic and as organic as you can
get in terms of the title. It's nothing clever. And
it is a twelve episode mini series I released. I
recorded and released all the episodes. Dropped them because the
thought of juggling to live podcasts of different topics was
(04:48):
just hurt my brain. So we recorded them. I might
do a separate season and add additional episodes if you
guys like it and it responds really and you guys
want more information, I'm happy to do it. But we're
starting with these twelve episodes. It's totally free and for
anybody that is either has an organizing business, maybe you
(05:09):
just started it, but like the business side of things,
you're struggling with, or maybe there's things in your business
that you know that you've been avoiding or you're not
good at, or you want clarification on. This is a
great resource for you. Now, if you're somebody that has
been thinking about starting a professional organizing business and you're like,
(05:30):
I'm not really sure, I'm not really sure what goes
into it. I'm not sure what the start of from
the business side of things, check this out. I mean literally,
it's going to cost you your time. That's it. You're
ready a podcast listener because you're listening to this episode,
so you follow me so you have an idea of
what that is. And they are short episodes. We're talking
(05:51):
some episodes or eight minutes, and episodes are twelve minutes.
I think the longest one might be twenty minutes, so
you can binge all twelve pretty quickly. We talk about pricing,
we talk about marketing, we talk about contracts, we talk
about building a website. We talk about creating an email list,
a lot of the foundational pieces of starting a business,
(06:12):
and if you love organizing, whether you are thinking about
doing a side hustle, like I have a full time
job and I'm not ready to give it up. I
need the money, I need the benefits, but I really
love this and I would love to bring in some
additional revenue. This is for you. Maybe you are a
mom and your kids are finally going to be out
(06:33):
of the house for a few hours at school, and
you're like, I need to do something that's flexible with
their schedule, and I really like to organize. It comes
very naturally to me, and I have one, maybe two
days a week that I can do something, and I
want to do something for me and start to build something.
(06:54):
This might be for you. Maybe you're an empty nester
and you are like, I would like to do something.
If you're retired, I've got people that are like, I'm
a retired teacher and I just want to do something
to keep my brain and my body like moving, and
I just like to bring in a little bit of
extra spending money. This is a great podcast for you
(07:19):
start and grow your professional organizing business. Wherever you listen
to podcasts on our YouTube channel, check it out. Let
me know what you think. And if you do listen,
because it's a new podcast, if you be so kind
as to rate and review it, that would be awesome.
Just helps not so much with discoverability, but just from
(07:39):
street cred for other people that are like, oh, yeah,
I'm looking for something, This would be awesome, so check
that out. But now that I've gone through all that,
I am going to introduce you or reintroduce you to
my friend Amy Revel. Enjoy our conversation, Amy Revel.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
How are you this friend?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
So you are the only person I will do a
recording at seven am Eastern time.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
For and you're the only friend that I will record
with at nine pm when I should be going to bed,
because you're with it my friend.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yes, And for those of you who don't know, my
dear friend Amy is in Melbourne, Australia. Yeah, correct, Yeah,
and is no stranger to this show. Yes, I love
this show and it's very funny because when did you
start your show?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I feel like ind and seventeen. Okay, we literally started
the same I think it was the same time.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, we started the same time. And you consistently if
you look at my podcast library, like, I have my
staple shows, right, and then I bring in like new
ones as I hear of them, or I'm like or
I get sick of ones that I like, try to
clean up my feed, and you are consistently always on
(09:00):
my feed. But it no this truly, And I don't
always listen, right because life gets busy and you only
have so many podcasting hours in a week and the
day whatever. But you're always there. And the funniest thing,
my hand to God, every time I am like, oh,
(09:21):
I haven't listened to I meanwhile, and I pick up
an episode, I swear to god, it aligns exactly with
something that we are talking about on our show.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
That's brilliant. I think that's the beautiful thing about what
we do, though, is because it fluctuates and flows, but
it's always centered and so I love that. I love
that as we listen to other I love listening to
other organizing podcasts because you're like, oh, yes, yeah, and
it becomes like this whole picture of what we do
and what we're trying to share with.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
The word yeah, So give our listeners. I've set the
stage and again for og people they've heard it before
from me, but tell everybody, give them like a high
level overview of you and your brand and all the
amazing things that you have going on in this world.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Excellence. I'm the owner of the Art of Decluttering, so
the podcast is the Art of Decluttering Podcast, and we
also do in home services in Melbourne, Australia, and so
I love that where in people's homes all the time,
just helping them to clear that clutter and set homes
that they can actually enjoy. I also do a lot
of virtual sessions around the world, so I do all
our virtual sessions, and I love that. I love getting
(10:32):
to see in people's homes in all kinds of places
and help them no matter where they're at. I'm an
author like yourself, and so yeah, it's all about helping
people find freedom from the clutter in their homes and
freedom to enjoy the things that actually matter. Because you
and I, Larie have way better things to do than
be decluttering all the time. We want to go and
live our awesome lives, but often what holds people back
(10:55):
is the clutter, and so we just want to help
them clear that out and go enjoy life.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Absolutely couldn't have said it better myself. So, in addition
to all of the stuff that you have going on professionally,
you're married, have two kids. Yeah, teenagers.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yes, you're correct, they're still teenagers. But Jesse's now eighteen,
which is eighteen an adult in the US, because that's
an adult in Australia.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And that is just gross because he's like alive. You
watched him grow up? Yes, yes, because he's seriously, that
is just in sea. So does is he going to
like university?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
He's studying at the moment. Yeah, so he's doing sports
and recreation and I'm sure yet where that'll take him.
But he's a great kid and a larger our sixteen
year old has actually just helped us. I don't know.
I want to hear about your renovation project. Yes, because
we've been doing a big reno project and he's actually
been on site with me most days and we have
loved having this mother's son project that we've been doing
(11:52):
for the last couple of months. It's been really fun.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yes, and that was actually there's two things and we'll
get into it that were like the catalyst for this
particular recording is I've been talking on my socials, even
though I have this like love hate relationship with social media,
but I've been talking on socials. I've been talking on
the show about this renovation project that we've been doing,
(12:20):
and then I popped in yours and all of a sudden,
it was an episode where you were talking about your
own renovation. And that's why I was like, we are
living like parallel lives in two different parts of the world. Yeah,
tell me tell us a little bit about it, because
it's so very cool.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
It was really fun. We actually just finished it. It
was five days ago. I think we finished it. And
so for us, what it was is we live on
a corner block and when we first moved in, my
boys said to the lady who lived next door to us,
who at that stage would have been in her late eighties.
I said, yunus, one day when you die, Like kids
have no filter, we want to buy your house and
(12:57):
move in like the kids. They plan they were probably
five and seven. Their plan was, when Unice is finished
with her house, they will buy the house as five
and seven year olds, and they will get married and
they will both move in with their wives next order
their mother and dad. Like sweet, sweet plan. I'm never
letting my children move in next door.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Eunice, on her deathbed reached out and said, I need
to sell the house about to pass away. She was
in her mid nineties, and said, do you guys still
want to buy the house, And we were like, yes,
we'll buy it today, and so we did that, and
so we It was in original condition, Laurie, like it
was original carpets, original curtains. I think everything was being
(13:41):
held together by a mighty army of dust mites, because
as soon as we tried to pull the carpet up,
it just destined to it like it was really bad condition.
So we had to gut the whole thing in one room.
It's not so bad that we had to take all
the plaster off, and it's still smell so bad. The
builders said, we actually have to pull like all the
joists out of the flooring and start again because the
(14:02):
smell is in the timber.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
It was not glorious, but it has been so much fun.
So we did it in ten weeks, gatted it, pulled
out walls, new kitchens, new bathrooms, new everything, and we
now have tenants living in it.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Wow. Because okay, so yeah, I have questions, So yes,
so you answer question of what so were you So
this is design now to be like a rental property
or correct investment proper.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, and the beautiful thing is we've got friends who
have moved in next door.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Now still do the boys still want to live there?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
That's what I want to note that Novelty has well
and tirely water off.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Okay, so how big is this property? Like? How big is?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
It's five bedroom? So it's actually it's a main home
which is a three bedroom, two living home and connected
via the same roof, so undercover just joined via a
little deck. Is a two bedroom, one bathroom, one kitchen bungalow,
and so we renovated both.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
So could you rent them as two separate?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
It could, but it just it would have been way
more expensive to do it that way, and so we
rented it all as one. So one person's in the
bungalow and there'll be two people in the house. So yeah,
it was. It's a big house, so five bedrooms, two
bathrooms and two kitchens.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So a lots of.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Renovating, yes, lots of painting.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And when you did it, you always knew it was
going to be investment or rental property. So you're at
least this for me because we with ours. It was
designed like when we and we didn't fully got it.
We gutted like parts of it, right. We gutted the bathrooms.
We didn't gut the kitchen because the kitchen was in
pretty good cheap so we did some cosmetic key things
(15:50):
to that. But we knew that we were going to
enjoy it as a vacation, as a second home investment,
but we were also the plan was also to do
some rentals, like maybe some are rentals or whatever, because
it is right. And so my mindset as I'm renovating
it and I'm designing it had slightly different spin on
(16:15):
it because normally, when I go into a client's home
or even my own omen it's your primary residence. I'm
factoring storage for different things, and I'm thinking about it
from a purely I shouldn't say purely, that's a lie,
but I'm thinking about it like function of all the things.
And with this mindset, it was a little bit more
(16:38):
fun because I got to focus more on aesthetic like
function as well, but like different function, like if someone's
a guest or someone's.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Whatever, Well that's exciting isn't it?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
What about you? What was your I'm curious to know,
like what how your process?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, the process than me was about, say, let's be honest.
The first go for us was the case them. But
because we didn't it wasn't our primary residence and so
there wasn't this oh but it's worth spending the extra
money to have a tile that No, it was actually
it was worth getting a tile that will be hardy,
that is going to actually last the distance. But the
(17:14):
other thing that I really liked thinking about is making
the spaces as multi purpose and as like I didn't
want them to be cold, and I didn't want them
to just be bare bones, but I did want it
to be able to be a study or a spare bedroom,
or a home office, or a nursery, or a music
room or a craft room. So I was thinking about
that as I went through. What I really noticed that
(17:37):
I did differently as an investment property than in my
home is because I wasn't thinking where am I going
to put my bike? Where am I going to put
my picnic set? So I actually went in and created
lots of different types of storage. So one like linen
broom cupboard. We took all of the shelving out and
just had it as this like open toll cupboard. And
another one we put additional shelves in so you have say,
(18:00):
storage things in it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
And another one I was.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Thinking, okay, if you had your mop on your brain,
you could put it in there. And another one I
was thinking, Okay, this is really deep. So I actually
wanted to create lots of different options for storage because
I didn't know. I didn't know whether it would be
a family living in the main house and then maybe
some older parents in the bungalow. I didn't know if
it was teenagers in the bungalow, or if someone would
use it as a home office. Because I didn't know,
(18:24):
I had to create it so that it had lots
of different ways of functioning, which is different than we
do in any home when you know who's there, what
your purpose is, because you've got a little bit more guidelines.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
I love it. Yeah, it's that versatility.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Versatility, that's the word.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
You know. It's so true and we I guess you
articulated it better than I did. But I think I
also to a degree approached certain things that way, and
even in the closets where I normally my brain gets
super granular because I'm like, Okay, who's using this, what
(18:58):
are the habits? What are they doing? And I'm like
reverse engineering it? And here You're like, okay, how can
we maximize this space.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yice, and how do we keep it where there's options?
So true, because you're not trying to find the spot
for the lego, You're trying to create spaces where anything
can go.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yes, I love it. Did you enjoy the process?
Speaker 3 (19:21):
You loved it, Larry, My body did not. I ruined
my wrist trying to lift something that was way too
heavy and then still had to paint a five bedroom,
two kitchen, two bathroom outs. I tore a peck muscle.
I like, my body is still definitely in recovery. But
I absolutely love the process and I would do it
(19:43):
again in a heartbeat. If I could do it with
the builder that I worked with, because he's amazing, and
if I could somehow convince the bank to lend me
the money but they won't.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I love it. That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Do you enjoy doing yours?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I did it in the spirit of transparency. We outsourced
a lot of it, so our One of the main
differences between our two projects is yours was right next door,
so you were right there, you could hop over.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
We pulled the fence, Don Laurie like, we made it
as easy as possible. Wow to go between.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So our property on a good day is three hours away. Wow. Yeah, no,
you can't be into I delegated and outsourced pretty much
everything because except for the design and all that stuff, right, Like,
I was very hands on, but I had an incredible builder.
I have an incredible team. And shout out to my
(20:37):
realtor because he was a major contributor for making this
all possible, because he was so great throughout the whole
process and has a wonderful network within himself and that's
which made it so easy because we talk a lot
and I know you do as well. Like this the
no trust factor, you're bringing people into your home and
(20:59):
I've I've never been somebody who's just like a quick
price shopper, maybe because I'm in a service business and
I don't make decisions based on price because I want
the right person and the from the landscape team to
the building team, and obviously I had to get a connection.
But like the people that he connected me with, I
was like, yes, you're in heat on site and the
(21:21):
communication was great and loved it. So I felt very
safe and trusted and heard with our design with our
builder design team, and I picked. I was hands on
in picking everything, but the actual execution of it, like
I wasn't tiling, I wasn't painting, I wasn't doing the
heavy lifting. And so it was nice for me because
(21:43):
I got to just be like, Okay, I want shiplop
on that wall, and then I would show up and
I'd be like, oh my god, there's shiplop on that wall.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Do you know what? As we're talking, it really reminds
me that there's different ways of engaging, decluttering and organizing
tooth Like, sometimes you do have the capacity, like I
d to put aside some of the burdens of work
and life and actually focus and do a lot of
the hands on yourself. And there's other times when for
whatever reason, you can't be the person actually executing it
and you need to bring in an incredible team. And
(22:14):
that's just as valid, like you get the same results,
you have the same enjoyment, but sometimes you can be
involved and sometimes you have to bring in the team
and go, hey, this is the project, and I really
need your support with this.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, and I mean it me. It's making the project
a get done on a timely in a timely fashion.
It's making me enjoy it, so like we're able to
we're able to enjoy it. And it was because we
wound up closing at the end of November and so
we were it was right heading into the Thanksgiving Christmas
(22:46):
holiday season. So we closed and we did a lot
of the behind the scenes prep with figuring out. I
did all my selections during that time, which was super fun.
And then the team actually started work right after the
New year, and it was about six weeks, six to
(23:07):
eight weeks, I would say, of them doing it until
we could actually start moving in. And so it's been great.
And I've been when I go up there because again
I can't just run up there really quick or run
over there for five minutes. Yeah, So I'll be back
up there by the time this drops. Well, I'll been
back up there, but going up for Mother's Day weekend,
(23:28):
so I'll do another lot like video live whatever reveal.
Because I've been talking about it so much, I was like, people, should.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
We want to say it?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah? Really? Wait? Really? Days? Okay, So that's all great,
but there was also another reason. We're going to also
not just talk about ourselves and our renovations. But when
I was listening to I was actually on my car
ride home from our house, and I wound up binge
listening to a bunch of your shows, right because I
was in the car and I was like, oh, I
(23:59):
haven't caught up with Amy and while let me listen
to her. And so that's when I learned about your
innovation and all the things, and you were talking about
this one particular topic that I wanted to pull the
car over on the highway and be like, oh my
gosh and message you. But I waited until we got home,
and I said, we need to have a catch up
(24:19):
on the show, and I want you to come and
talk about this particular topic because I've found it so fascinating. Yeah,
so can you just tell our listeners a little bit
about what it is.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna geek out on everybody, and
we're going to talk about maths and we're going to
talk about thermiodynamics because what we wanted to talk about.
So I did a podcast episode on entropy, which is
the second law of thermiddynamics, and it states that everything
moves towards a state of disorder. And when I heard that, like,
(24:52):
I was listening to a science podcast and I was
just talking about this and blah blah, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, this applies to everything that we do
in our homes. Even this Afternnon Laurie, I got a
text from a client and said, why do I feel
like this is never done? And I was like, this
is why. Because entropy. Because every bit of order in
our lives, every bit of creation, the whole world, our bodies,
(25:16):
every item that we own, is moving towards a state
of disorder. And so we're constantly fighting against that. And
that doesn't mean we should. The option is you can
just throw your hands up in the air and go, no,
it's there bo dynamics and it's a law of the universe.
I'll just I'll roll with it. But also it makes
us think, Okay, I know what I'm fighting against sometimes
(25:36):
and what do I need to do to counteract some
of the outcomes of that.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's when I heard it, it was one of those
moments where I was like, this is crazy, and it
for people that don't because you and I are all
about trying to get to the root of it. If
we can get to your root of it, we can
solve it. We're not just a pretty containing and so
when I heard this, it was both like like a relief,
(26:06):
Oh my god, there's an answer, and then there's also
another part of it, depending on how your perspective is,
where you could be like that kind of sucks because
you are always swimming upstream, right, You're like you're going
like against the green if you know that, like the
law of thermodynamics. And by the way, I don't think
I got past like basic science in school. This is
not mine either, but this hit me right between the
(26:28):
eyes when if it's like, why are we doing this?
If we know that it's always going to be a battle,
but I don't think it has to be. And I
think that that's the key. So dig in a little
bit and we can even link to your We can
link to that episode in our show notes also, but
give if you could just summarize for our listeners who
haven't heard your episode, share some of the information, because
(26:49):
I feel like it's very relevant.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I think it's broad ranging really, because you can talk
about entropy on a large scale. So if you think
the universe is moving towards a state of disoil, our
bodies are moving towards the state of disorder. But then
you get granular and you think, okay, that board game
that I'm keeping, even though I don't really play it,
but maybe one day grandkids will come along and maybe
they'll play it, or maybe someone And you think, actually,
(27:14):
that particular board game and all the pieces within that
board game, and the cardboard that the board game is
in case in, all of that is going to be
in a perpetual move towards this array. The cardboard's going
to break down, the pieces are going to disintegrate. And
so when we keep things in our homes that we're
not using, they're only getting worse. And so if you
(27:36):
think I don't want to make a decision on this today,
when you make a decision on in five years, it
has become the victim, or always was the victim of entropy.
And admittedly entropy is not like you click your fingers
and the thing falls apart in your hands, but it
is this constant movement towards that my sister and her
husband manage a tip or a dump in far North Queensland.
(27:58):
And I often think that while we can in our
homes is we keep things that should probably go and
be rubbish or trash. And by keeping them in our
homes that doesn't stop entropy. I think people think, oh,
if I keep it in my home, it's still good.
But as soon as I give it to the dump,
then all of a sudden it starts to become rubbish. No,
it's becoming rubbish right in front of your eyes. And
(28:20):
so you can shift your perspective of the items in
my home are only getting worse. How do I a
organize my home so that I can care for them
and treat them well? And how do I make sure
that my leather shoes don't get moldy? How do I
create my home so that it's easy to dust, it's
easy to cleep clean because you can prolong the life
of things.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
But also a lot.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Of the stuff in your home you're just never going
to use again, and it's only getting worse. And maybe
if you donate it now, there's a little bit of
life left in it. And if you wait fifteen years
till you finally downsize and then you donate it, there
may not be life left in it. So there is
hope because the decisions that you make today knowing entropy exists,
(29:02):
can actually give your items another life rather than just
waiting and then having to throw them in the bin
because they've lost function.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I just had a thought as you were talking. So
there was a couple of things.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
So first of all, I don't before I get into
my thought, I think from the way I approach it,
because again I do a lot of work with the enneagram.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
We've talked about it on our show, right, and so
we're looking at and even before the anagram, I would
talk about the three types of clutter, right, your three
main buck at your physical, emotional, calendar clutter. And when
you're we're talking about entropy, you're talking logic, right. It's
very it's a data driven that's logical. I don't even
(29:49):
know what is it like it's a law. It's a law, right,
it's a law, right, so it's fact or so it's
coming strictly. There's no emotion in what it is. And
especially the people that call us in or listen to
our show a lot or struggle because there's this huge
emotional component, yes, that they wrestle with which is fair
(30:12):
and that emotional component is either guilt or fear or nostalgia.
But it's this emotional pull that is is that is
playing into and they're creating that scenario that story of
my grandchildren are going to play with this game, or
my daughter is going to wear this my prom dress.
(30:34):
Literal conversation, I had her daughter's five with a K
and she's a friend, right, I'm not shaming her, but
I'm just like, no, I don't know about that. Is
it worth you taking up your space for the next
literal decade on the thought that you were five your
now five year old daughter might want to wear And
(30:54):
maybe the answer is yes. But for a lot of people,
your space is way more important than that. But it's
taking that mind shift of going, I hear you over here,
giving me this law, this very data driven textbook definition,
but actually being able to connect those dots and apply
(31:16):
it when I'm sitting here making my decisions not from
logic but from emotion. I think that is that bridge.
How do we get people who are struggling with the
emotional hold to make peace with and allow that logic
(31:37):
to drive their decision making.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
And I think that's the right way to word it.
So you make peace. It's not about allowing it, like
trying to squash our emotions in order that the logic
would override. And it's not about saying intuition's good. It's
actually about making peace with it. I think sometimes storytelling
can be a really important part of that and actually
taking I'm not actually that's not such. I was gonna say
I'm not fired up about math and stuff. That's not true.
(32:00):
I totally am. I'm a total note. I love it.
It does find me up. However, when you see the
practical outworkings of it, like hearing, ah, this is the
second law of thermo dynamics and datata, and then once
I actually started to think about what that looked like
in my life, what that looked like in my home,
what that looked like with my stuff, then it becomes
a little bit more real. And I think if we
(32:22):
I think it's a lot to expect someone to hear
just a law and go that's going to change my life.
But when you can actually add that to the whole picture,
so you know, it's not like you or I ever
go into a client's home and go this is the law,
this is the way to do it, this is the logic.
We come in well rounded, and we come with different
tools in our tool belt, and I think with the
(32:43):
hundreds and hundreds of episodes between our podcasts, there's such
a good blend that we actually do create this whole picture.
Because we are whole human beings, there is a part
where we do need to think about the logic side
of it. Sometimes I can be working with a sentimental
person and I present something logically and all of a
sudden they're like, yep, done, that's a decision, mart I think, WHOA,
(33:05):
it's not expected because we have complex humans that need
to have all these different things in order and at
pace to make decisions. Sometimes, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
I agree one hundred percent. And the other thing that
I was going to say is because I'm always trying
to think of like how can we and I don't
want to say it's overplayble, like how can we hack
this right? How can we easily incorporate this really complex
law and into our daily lives? And for me, the
(33:39):
way I was interpreting it in my own brain was
just making like you said, making peace that the stuff
in our homes, our material things, are transient, and that's
not a bad thing like they're here for a particular
period of time and then they no longer serve us.
Whether that means they are literally disintegrating, like the carpet
(34:01):
in the house that you bought, or it's just it
doesn't fit us, our kids outgrow it, whatever, And I
always and that's why I love the work that we
do with the enneagram, because it challenges you to work
those muscles that you don't normally see. And if you
(34:21):
are somebody that is naturally drawn to the emotional side
of things, that's the lens that you're going to make
your decisions naturally. And it isn't until you are intentional
about looking at the logical side of things and saying,
how am I going to take action on this, that
(34:42):
you get out of that state of paralysis, because it's
very easy, and as a mom of a kid who's
a big feeler and can get suck in the emotional
loop of things, when we talk about it from that
logical standpoint, and it doesn't mean that you're so detached,
but you're just approaching it from a different angle like
(35:03):
you said you did with your client that they're like,
I never thought of it, And that makes sense because
that's not how their brain works. So incorporating this law
thermodynamics in a very real and practical way can give
somebody like it's like a new lane in a highway
that opens up that wasn't there because they just never
(35:26):
they didn't know, or here's the backway to get there.
You're like, oh, I didn't even know that was an option.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
And it might even be about just noticing things. So
I think the area in our homes that we see
entropy play out the most is in our kitchens. You
and I if we do a pantry or a kitchen
deck clutter, or particularly if you do a fringe deck clutter,
you're seeing like the very very quick ways of entropy,
the floppy carrots, the multi this the flower that's been
(35:54):
there and is all gross. And so when we throw
food out, we throw food out because of entropy. And
when you pick up a packet of something and the
actual packet is not working, or the lid on a
tub has broken and the plastics become fragile, the problem
is entropy. And so even if you're not using it
as a framework in which you look and make decisions,
(36:17):
sometimes noticing it and being okay with it and realizing
this is not because I'm a bad person and I
just didn't eat the carrots quick enough and now I'm
decluttering them by throwing them out. This is just the
natural law of life. And so sometimes that just being
aware of something can make a difference to how you feel,
(36:37):
how you make purchasing choices, how you make decluttering choices.
And sometimes that's enough. It doesn't need to be like
the big thing for the declutter. But here's another tool,
here's another framework. He's another lens you can look through.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I love that because it takes away if you can
look at it, it takes away that sheam element that
a lot of people feess that guilt and sheam and
the way I'm like, okay, so where do how do
we I don't want to say do better? Right? But
what choices can we make? So maybe we're not buying
the volume because we know that the reality of it
(37:10):
is we can't consume that amount in the amount of
time when we go through. I see, how would you
apply it? Let me ask you. I'm going to actually
ask you a question. I think it's very tangible when
you look at something in a kitchen, because there's like
food that's actually getting moldy and expiring. How would you
apply it in like with clothes for example, that aren't
(37:35):
I think I'm picturing in my mind as I'm like
thinking of this example, someone's got lots of tags on
things that they haven't worn, things that just you know,
overflowing with stuff, maybe different sizes because they fluctuated their
weight and just feeling overwhelmed. What about that, say.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
In a woodrobe, I find that entropy really helps with
declutter because what you're looking to. Sometimes when we're looking
at declutting, you can look at the individual items and
you can be making decisions about all the things with
tags on. But sometimes the easiest decisions in a wardrobe
is to go what has the clear effects of entropy.
So I'm looking at the leggings that have become see
(38:18):
through the genes that had the crutches worn out of
the top that the elastic has gone on, the bra
that the underwear fell out of. Like sometimes you can
use that lens to clear out the easy decisions because
you're like, that's non recoverable, that has moved towards a
state of disorder. That bra, I'm not wearing it again, it,
you know, for whatever reason, and so I think you
(38:40):
can use it to scrape that bottom level of stuff off.
And I think then when you're looking at items that
are new, the entropy for those items is not necessarily
going to be that they're going to be worn out,
that they're going to be the elastic's going to go,
that they're going to become. See through, The entropies is
(39:00):
not because of overwearing, is it. The entropy is actually
because it's possibly sitting in a cupboard without a whole
lot of airflow, and things that sit in covers without
airflow just naturally disintegrate. It's not good for fabrics. You
might have boths. You might find that you end up
going and buying more things, and so like it actually changes.
So the way that you look at a new item
(39:20):
with entropy it might be different the way that you
look at an old item. And so you might look
at new items and think, these aren't gonna last forever.
So either I wear them now or maybe I just
donate them as somebody else wears them, because I know
that in twenty years time, these are going to end
up in landfill one way or the other, worn or unworn.
They will probably end up in landfill. So what's my choice,
(39:43):
worn or unworn? I wear them or someone else wears them.
And so that might be a way that you can
use that framework to make those decisions in a wardrobe.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, I'd love it because I just love having different
tools like and you said bad that you can apply
with somebody. And the other thing as you were talking
is I feel like this again, it's not a theory,
it's a law, but this approach and bringing this in
as part of the decision making process for somebody that
(40:14):
is more analytical, is more data driven, that's struggling because
they have rationalized it in their minds can also at
a different perspective. So it's not only for the person
that is an emotional clutterer person. It is for people
(40:35):
because we can all justify keeping things for different reasons.
And so I just I found it. And again I'm
going to encourage you guys to like listen to Amy's episode,
even though a lot of what she's saying is repetitive here,
because it was just it was so fascinating and at
the end of the day, the goal I think, and
(40:55):
I tell me of you differ, but we want you
to be able to use where and love the stuff
that is in your home.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah, and if you think about entropy when you're purchasing,
you might purchase clothes that will last longer, that are
better quality, that are materials that will last longer because
you know that they're going to wear out. You know
that they're not going to last as long. And so
if you buy a kitchen aid that is better quality,
it is going to degrade slower, and so you're over
(41:25):
time going to spend less money of it and have
less stuff in landfill. So it also can affect your
purchasing decisions, which I think is a powerful thing for
many of our clients, because you end up with if
you just buy cheap, then you have this turnover and
you often don't get rid of the old one and
you have the new one.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
It just adds up exactly. I love it. Amy. I
could talk to you all day, but I know that
you have to go to bed.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
And you need to start your day and I.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Need to s want my day. Tell our listeners where
can they find you? All over the inner webs.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
So ash of Daycluttering dot com dot ae is my website.
But if you just put in Google, the out of
day Cluttering or in chat Jpat, or in Instagram or
Facebook or podcast app the ast of decluttering. I am confident.
But if that's what you pop in, you will find me.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yes, I love it. I love it. Thank you so much,
my friend for coming on the show. It's always a
pleasure to chat with you. And I want to see
pictures of your renovation.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I'm going to send you some as soon as we
get office call. I'm going to send you some of
my before and afters.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, all right, and you guys, if you are new
to our show, welcome, so happy that you're here. Please
click the follow button or subscribe wherever you're watching listening.
As Amy said, between the two of us, we've got
hundreds and hundreds of podcasts episodes. So if there's a
particular topic that you are interested in looking for, you
could put into our search bar or reach out to
(42:51):
us and we can direct you to you know what
it is. If you're struggling with a particular area, or
you want to learn more about decluttering with eighty or
the Enneagram or building an organizing business, I am here
for it. So I'm glad you're here, and we're here
every week and we'll be back again next week with
another episode. Until then, Laurie palou He's out. Thanks for
(43:14):
tuning in. If you'd liked this episode, please spread the
love and share it with your friends. And if this
is your first time joining us, make sure to click
the subscribe button wherever you are listening so you never
miss an episode. And while you're there, please leave us
a review so other people know that our show is
worth to listen. You can also find us on YouTube
and Instagram at This Organized Life Podcast, and if you'd
(43:35):
like to connect with us, you can head on over
to our website at simply the letter B like boyorganized
dot com, which is filled with tons of resources, including
free downloads, checklists, links to our amazing organizing partners, and
all of our digital offerings. And I'll see you next
week for another episode of This Organized Life
Hey, they're organizing friends. If you are an aspiring professional organizer,
or maybe you're someone in the early stages of your
organizing business and wondering what the heck is next, don't worry.
I've got you covered here at simply Babe, we offer
two mentoring options to help you grow with confidence. First off,
we have our one on one start anytime program, which
is perfect if you're ready to dive in now. And
(00:21):
our group mentoring Comhork kicks off this coming September, and
that is ideal for somebody who's looking for a little
bit more structure. It's a bit more robust and it's
going to put you immediately in with some community and
give you some extra accountability. So, whether you're looking for
help with pricing or services how to market your business,
either option is going to give you the tools that
(00:42):
you need, and I am here dot guide you every
step of the way. To learn more, visit simplyborganized dot
com or you can click on the link below in
our show notes and you can figure out which option
is best for you. Now, let's build the business that
you have been dreaming about.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Welcome to this organize. If you're a mom, wife, or
coffee lover seeking advice on how to reduce clutter and
reclaim time, look no further than your host, Laurie Pillau,
Founder Simply Be Organized and author of hot Mess, a
practical guide to getting organized. For a lot of people,
clutter is their dirty little secret, but it doesn't have
to be. Each week we will share practical tips, chat
(01:20):
with experts, and provide strategies on how.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
To keep you organized.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I hope that.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
By sharing our stories you feel a little less alone
and more empowered to tackle the areas that are holding
you back.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
So let's get started.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And Hi everybody, and welcome to you today's episode of
This Organized Life. I'm your Storri Palala, and I'm so
happy that you're here. So actually doing something a little
bit different, peeling back the curtain and recording my introduction
(01:52):
after my episode. Just got done recording with my good
friend Amy Ravel from the Art of Decluttering in your
Gonna hear her in a minute. Amy lives in Australia,
and so we in order for us to figure out
a time to record, we are either very early in
(02:13):
one person's time zone and very late in another person's
time zone. And so I did not have the mental
bandwidth to do a clever introduction. I was like, we
just have to get into it, and I'm going to
record it afterwards. So I just want to give you
guys a little bit of introduction on Amy beforehand. She's
the real deal. We've known each other for about eight
(02:34):
years now, maybe eight nine years, gosh. She's also a
organizer turned podcaster, but also sees private clients and loves
to approach organizing and decluttering in a similar vein as
I do, from a very analytical and scientific perspective, but
(02:54):
also bring in that real human, practical dynamic and we
love that. And she's been on my show at least
three times. Don't quote me on what episodes, because I
could not tell you off the top of my head.
But if you just google a new reveil this organized life,
you're going to come up with them. Also, I didn't
because we dove right into conversation. I didn't get a
(03:16):
chance to really talk about some other things that are
happening in our ecosystem here at TOL. We have some
big news for people that are interested on the organizing
side of things, like professionally, so I get a lot
of emails about doing episodes geared for professional organizers, and
(03:40):
it's something that I've struggled with and we've dabbled in
it before, but I wanted to have a dedicated resource
for people just wanting to start or grow an organizing business,
and so we created and it's actually been out for
a little while, but we haven't really done any marketing
for it, to be told, totally honest, with everything going
(04:01):
on with clutter clinics and all the things, but it
is a new podcast. It has owned ourcessity, so you
can go and subscribe to it. Actually, if you're interested
in learning about the business side of the business, go
and subscribe to it. It's literally called start and Grow
and Organizing or start and Grow your organizing business. It's
(04:23):
really like as basic and as organic as you can
get in terms of the title. It's nothing clever. And
it is a twelve episode mini series I released. I
recorded and released all the episodes. Dropped them because the
thought of juggling to live podcasts of different topics was
(04:48):
just hurt my brain. So we recorded them. I might
do a separate season and add additional episodes if you
guys like it and it responds really and you guys
want more information, I'm happy to do it. But we're
starting with these twelve episodes. It's totally free and for
anybody that is either has an organizing business, maybe you
(05:09):
just started it, but like the business side of things,
you're struggling with, or maybe there's things in your business
that you know that you've been avoiding or you're not
good at, or you want clarification on. This is a
great resource for you. Now, if you're somebody that has
been thinking about starting a professional organizing business and you're like,
(05:30):
I'm not really sure, I'm not really sure what goes
into it. I'm not sure what the start of from
the business side of things, check this out. I mean literally,
it's going to cost you your time. That's it. You're
ready a podcast listener because you're listening to this episode,
so you follow me so you have an idea of
what that is. And they are short episodes. We're talking
(05:51):
some episodes or eight minutes, and episodes are twelve minutes.
I think the longest one might be twenty minutes, so
you can binge all twelve pretty quickly. We talk about pricing,
we talk about marketing, we talk about contracts, we talk
about building a website. We talk about creating an email list,
a lot of the foundational pieces of starting a business,
(06:12):
and if you love organizing, whether you are thinking about
doing a side hustle, like I have a full time
job and I'm not ready to give it up. I
need the money, I need the benefits, but I really
love this and I would love to bring in some
additional revenue. This is for you. Maybe you are a
mom and your kids are finally going to be out
(06:33):
of the house for a few hours at school, and
you're like, I need to do something that's flexible with
their schedule, and I really like to organize. It comes
very naturally to me, and I have one, maybe two
days a week that I can do something, and I
want to do something for me and start to build something.
(06:54):
This might be for you. Maybe you're an empty nester
and you are like, I would like to do something.
If you're retired, I've got people that are like, I'm
a retired teacher and I just want to do something
to keep my brain and my body like moving, and
I just like to bring in a little bit of
extra spending money. This is a great podcast for you
(07:19):
start and grow your professional organizing business. Wherever you listen
to podcasts on our YouTube channel, check it out. Let
me know what you think. And if you do listen,
because it's a new podcast, if you be so kind
as to rate and review it, that would be awesome.
Just helps not so much with discoverability, but just from
(07:39):
street cred for other people that are like, oh, yeah,
I'm looking for something, This would be awesome, so check
that out. But now that I've gone through all that,
I am going to introduce you or reintroduce you to
my friend Amy Revel. Enjoy our conversation, Amy Revel.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
How are you this friend?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
So you are the only person I will do a
recording at seven am Eastern time.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
For and you're the only friend that I will record
with at nine pm when I should be going to bed,
because you're with it my friend.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yes, And for those of you who don't know, my
dear friend Amy is in Melbourne, Australia. Yeah, correct, Yeah,
and is no stranger to this show. Yes, I love
this show and it's very funny because when did you
start your show?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I feel like ind and seventeen. Okay, we literally started
the same I think it was the same time.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, we started the same time. And you consistently if
you look at my podcast library, like, I have my
staple shows, right, and then I bring in like new
ones as I hear of them, or I'm like or
I get sick of ones that I like, try to
clean up my feed, and you are consistently always on
(09:00):
my feed. But it no this truly, And I don't
always listen, right because life gets busy and you only
have so many podcasting hours in a week and the
day whatever. But you're always there. And the funniest thing,
my hand to God, every time I am like, oh,
(09:21):
I haven't listened to I meanwhile, and I pick up
an episode, I swear to god, it aligns exactly with
something that we are talking about on our show.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
That's brilliant. I think that's the beautiful thing about what
we do, though, is because it fluctuates and flows, but
it's always centered and so I love that. I love
that as we listen to other I love listening to
other organizing podcasts because you're like, oh, yes, yeah, and
it becomes like this whole picture of what we do
and what we're trying to share with.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
The word yeah, So give our listeners. I've set the
stage and again for og people they've heard it before
from me, but tell everybody, give them like a high
level overview of you and your brand and all the
amazing things that you have going on in this world.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Excellence. I'm the owner of the Art of Decluttering, so
the podcast is the Art of Decluttering Podcast, and we
also do in home services in Melbourne, Australia, and so
I love that where in people's homes all the time,
just helping them to clear that clutter and set homes
that they can actually enjoy. I also do a lot
of virtual sessions around the world, so I do all
our virtual sessions, and I love that. I love getting
(10:32):
to see in people's homes in all kinds of places
and help them no matter where they're at. I'm an
author like yourself, and so yeah, it's all about helping
people find freedom from the clutter in their homes and
freedom to enjoy the things that actually matter. Because you
and I, Larie have way better things to do than
be decluttering all the time. We want to go and
live our awesome lives, but often what holds people back
(10:55):
is the clutter, and so we just want to help
them clear that out and go enjoy life.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Absolutely couldn't have said it better myself. So, in addition
to all of the stuff that you have going on professionally,
you're married, have two kids. Yeah, teenagers.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yes, you're correct, they're still teenagers. But Jesse's now eighteen,
which is eighteen an adult in the US, because that's
an adult in Australia.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And that is just gross because he's like alive. You
watched him grow up? Yes, yes, because he's seriously, that
is just in sea. So does is he going to
like university?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
He's studying at the moment. Yeah, so he's doing sports
and recreation and I'm sure yet where that'll take him.
But he's a great kid and a larger our sixteen
year old has actually just helped us. I don't know.
I want to hear about your renovation project. Yes, because
we've been doing a big reno project and he's actually
been on site with me most days and we have
loved having this mother's son project that we've been doing
(11:52):
for the last couple of months. It's been really fun.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yes, and that was actually there's two things and we'll
get into it that were like the catalyst for this
particular recording is I've been talking on my socials, even
though I have this like love hate relationship with social media,
but I've been talking on socials. I've been talking on
the show about this renovation project that we've been doing,
(12:20):
and then I popped in yours and all of a sudden,
it was an episode where you were talking about your
own renovation. And that's why I was like, we are
living like parallel lives in two different parts of the world. Yeah,
tell me tell us a little bit about it, because
it's so very cool.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
It was really fun. We actually just finished it. It
was five days ago. I think we finished it. And
so for us, what it was is we live on
a corner block and when we first moved in, my
boys said to the lady who lived next door to us,
who at that stage would have been in her late eighties.
I said, yunus, one day when you die, Like kids
have no filter, we want to buy your house and
(12:57):
move in like the kids. They plan they were probably
five and seven. Their plan was, when Unice is finished
with her house, they will buy the house as five
and seven year olds, and they will get married and
they will both move in with their wives next order
their mother and dad. Like sweet, sweet plan. I'm never
letting my children move in next door.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Eunice, on her deathbed reached out and said, I need
to sell the house about to pass away. She was
in her mid nineties, and said, do you guys still
want to buy the house, And we were like, yes,
we'll buy it today, and so we did that, and
so we It was in original condition, Laurie, like it
was original carpets, original curtains. I think everything was being
(13:41):
held together by a mighty army of dust mites, because
as soon as we tried to pull the carpet up,
it just destined to it like it was really bad condition.
So we had to gut the whole thing in one room.
It's not so bad that we had to take all
the plaster off, and it's still smell so bad. The
builders said, we actually have to pull like all the
joists out of the flooring and start again because the
(14:02):
smell is in the timber.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
It was not glorious, but it has been so much fun.
So we did it in ten weeks, gatted it, pulled
out walls, new kitchens, new bathrooms, new everything, and we
now have tenants living in it.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Wow. Because okay, so yeah, I have questions, So yes,
so you answer question of what so were you So
this is design now to be like a rental property
or correct investment proper.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, and the beautiful thing is we've got friends who
have moved in next door.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Now still do the boys still want to live there?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
That's what I want to note that Novelty has well
and tirely water off.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Okay, so how big is this property? Like? How big is?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
It's five bedroom? So it's actually it's a main home
which is a three bedroom, two living home and connected
via the same roof, so undercover just joined via a
little deck. Is a two bedroom, one bathroom, one kitchen bungalow,
and so we renovated both.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
So could you rent them as two separate?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
It could, but it just it would have been way
more expensive to do it that way, and so we
rented it all as one. So one person's in the
bungalow and there'll be two people in the house. So yeah,
it was. It's a big house, so five bedrooms, two
bathrooms and two kitchens.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So a lots of.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Renovating, yes, lots of painting.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And when you did it, you always knew it was
going to be investment or rental property. So you're at
least this for me because we with ours. It was
designed like when we and we didn't fully got it.
We gutted like parts of it, right. We gutted the bathrooms.
We didn't gut the kitchen because the kitchen was in
pretty good cheap so we did some cosmetic key things
(15:50):
to that. But we knew that we were going to
enjoy it as a vacation, as a second home investment,
but we were also the plan was also to do
some rentals, like maybe some are rentals or whatever, because
it is right. And so my mindset as I'm renovating
it and I'm designing it had slightly different spin on
(16:15):
it because normally, when I go into a client's home
or even my own omen it's your primary residence. I'm
factoring storage for different things, and I'm thinking about it
from a purely I shouldn't say purely, that's a lie,
but I'm thinking about it like function of all the things.
And with this mindset, it was a little bit more
(16:38):
fun because I got to focus more on aesthetic like
function as well, but like different function, like if someone's
a guest or someone's.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Whatever, Well that's exciting isn't it?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
What about you? What was your I'm curious to know,
like what how your process?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, the process than me was about, say, let's be honest.
The first go for us was the case them. But
because we didn't it wasn't our primary residence and so
there wasn't this oh but it's worth spending the extra
money to have a tile that No, it was actually
it was worth getting a tile that will be hardy,
that is going to actually last the distance. But the
(17:14):
other thing that I really liked thinking about is making
the spaces as multi purpose and as like I didn't
want them to be cold, and I didn't want them
to just be bare bones, but I did want it
to be able to be a study or a spare bedroom,
or a home office, or a nursery, or a music
room or a craft room. So I was thinking about
that as I went through. What I really noticed that
(17:37):
I did differently as an investment property than in my
home is because I wasn't thinking where am I going
to put my bike? Where am I going to put
my picnic set? So I actually went in and created
lots of different types of storage. So one like linen
broom cupboard. We took all of the shelving out and
just had it as this like open toll cupboard. And
another one we put additional shelves in so you have say,
(18:00):
storage things in it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
And another one I was.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Thinking, okay, if you had your mop on your brain,
you could put it in there. And another one I
was thinking, Okay, this is really deep. So I actually
wanted to create lots of different options for storage because
I didn't know. I didn't know whether it would be
a family living in the main house and then maybe
some older parents in the bungalow. I didn't know if
it was teenagers in the bungalow, or if someone would
use it as a home office. Because I didn't know,
(18:24):
I had to create it so that it had lots
of different ways of functioning, which is different than we
do in any home when you know who's there, what
your purpose is, because you've got a little bit more guidelines.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
I love it. Yeah, it's that versatility.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Versatility, that's the word.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
You know. It's so true and we I guess you
articulated it better than I did. But I think I
also to a degree approached certain things that way, and
even in the closets where I normally my brain gets
super granular because I'm like, Okay, who's using this, what
(18:58):
are the habits? What are they doing? And I'm like
reverse engineering it? And here You're like, okay, how can
we maximize this space.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yice, and how do we keep it where there's options?
So true, because you're not trying to find the spot
for the lego, You're trying to create spaces where anything
can go.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yes, I love it. Did you enjoy the process?
Speaker 3 (19:21):
You loved it, Larry, My body did not. I ruined
my wrist trying to lift something that was way too
heavy and then still had to paint a five bedroom,
two kitchen, two bathroom outs. I tore a peck muscle.
I like, my body is still definitely in recovery. But
I absolutely love the process and I would do it
(19:43):
again in a heartbeat. If I could do it with
the builder that I worked with, because he's amazing, and
if I could somehow convince the bank to lend me
the money but they won't.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I love it. That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Do you enjoy doing yours?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I did it in the spirit of transparency. We outsourced
a lot of it, so our One of the main
differences between our two projects is yours was right next door,
so you were right there, you could hop over.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
We pulled the fence, Don Laurie like, we made it
as easy as possible. Wow to go between.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So our property on a good day is three hours away. Wow. Yeah, no,
you can't be into I delegated and outsourced pretty much
everything because except for the design and all that stuff, right, Like,
I was very hands on, but I had an incredible builder.
I have an incredible team. And shout out to my
(20:37):
realtor because he was a major contributor for making this
all possible, because he was so great throughout the whole
process and has a wonderful network within himself and that's
which made it so easy because we talk a lot
and I know you do as well. Like this the
no trust factor, you're bringing people into your home and
(20:59):
I've I've never been somebody who's just like a quick
price shopper, maybe because I'm in a service business and
I don't make decisions based on price because I want
the right person and the from the landscape team to
the building team, and obviously I had to get a connection.
But like the people that he connected me with, I
was like, yes, you're in heat on site and the
(21:21):
communication was great and loved it. So I felt very
safe and trusted and heard with our design with our
builder design team, and I picked. I was hands on
in picking everything, but the actual execution of it, like
I wasn't tiling, I wasn't painting, I wasn't doing the
heavy lifting. And so it was nice for me because
(21:43):
I got to just be like, Okay, I want shiplop
on that wall, and then I would show up and
I'd be like, oh my god, there's shiplop on that wall.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Do you know what? As we're talking, it really reminds
me that there's different ways of engaging, decluttering and organizing
tooth Like, sometimes you do have the capacity, like I
d to put aside some of the burdens of work
and life and actually focus and do a lot of
the hands on yourself. And there's other times when for
whatever reason, you can't be the person actually executing it
and you need to bring in an incredible team. And
(22:14):
that's just as valid, like you get the same results,
you have the same enjoyment, but sometimes you can be
involved and sometimes you have to bring in the team
and go, hey, this is the project, and I really
need your support with this.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, and I mean it me. It's making the project
a get done on a timely in a timely fashion.
It's making me enjoy it, so like we're able to
we're able to enjoy it. And it was because we
wound up closing at the end of November and so
we were it was right heading into the Thanksgiving Christmas
(22:46):
holiday season. So we closed and we did a lot
of the behind the scenes prep with figuring out. I
did all my selections during that time, which was super fun.
And then the team actually started work right after the
New year, and it was about six weeks, six to
(23:07):
eight weeks, I would say, of them doing it until
we could actually start moving in. And so it's been great.
And I've been when I go up there because again
I can't just run up there really quick or run
over there for five minutes. Yeah, So I'll be back
up there by the time this drops. Well, I'll been
back up there, but going up for Mother's Day weekend,
(23:28):
so I'll do another lot like video live whatever reveal.
Because I've been talking about it so much, I was like, people, should.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
We want to say it?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah? Really? Wait? Really? Days? Okay, So that's all great,
but there was also another reason. We're going to also
not just talk about ourselves and our renovations. But when
I was listening to I was actually on my car
ride home from our house, and I wound up binge
listening to a bunch of your shows, right because I
was in the car and I was like, oh, I
(23:59):
haven't caught up with Amy and while let me listen
to her. And so that's when I learned about your
innovation and all the things, and you were talking about
this one particular topic that I wanted to pull the
car over on the highway and be like, oh my
gosh and message you. But I waited until we got home,
and I said, we need to have a catch up
(24:19):
on the show, and I want you to come and
talk about this particular topic because I've found it so fascinating. Yeah,
so can you just tell our listeners a little bit
about what it is.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna geek out on everybody, and
we're going to talk about maths and we're going to
talk about thermiodynamics because what we wanted to talk about.
So I did a podcast episode on entropy, which is
the second law of thermiddynamics, and it states that everything
moves towards a state of disorder. And when I heard that, like,
(24:52):
I was listening to a science podcast and I was
just talking about this and blah blah, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, this applies to everything that we do
in our homes. Even this Afternnon Laurie, I got a
text from a client and said, why do I feel
like this is never done? And I was like, this
is why. Because entropy. Because every bit of order in
our lives, every bit of creation, the whole world, our bodies,
(25:16):
every item that we own, is moving towards a state
of disorder. And so we're constantly fighting against that. And
that doesn't mean we should. The option is you can
just throw your hands up in the air and go, no,
it's there bo dynamics and it's a law of the universe.
I'll just I'll roll with it. But also it makes
us think, Okay, I know what I'm fighting against sometimes
(25:36):
and what do I need to do to counteract some
of the outcomes of that.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's when I heard it, it was one of those
moments where I was like, this is crazy, and it
for people that don't because you and I are all
about trying to get to the root of it. If
we can get to your root of it, we can
solve it. We're not just a pretty containing and so
when I heard this, it was both like like a relief,
(26:06):
Oh my god, there's an answer, and then there's also
another part of it, depending on how your perspective is,
where you could be like that kind of sucks because
you are always swimming upstream, right, You're like you're going
like against the green if you know that, like the
law of thermodynamics. And by the way, I don't think
I got past like basic science in school. This is
not mine either, but this hit me right between the
(26:28):
eyes when if it's like, why are we doing this?
If we know that it's always going to be a battle,
but I don't think it has to be. And I
think that that's the key. So dig in a little
bit and we can even link to your We can
link to that episode in our show notes also, but
give if you could just summarize for our listeners who
haven't heard your episode, share some of the information, because
(26:49):
I feel like it's very relevant.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I think it's broad ranging really, because you can talk
about entropy on a large scale. So if you think
the universe is moving towards a state of disoil, our
bodies are moving towards the state of disorder. But then
you get granular and you think, okay, that board game
that I'm keeping, even though I don't really play it,
but maybe one day grandkids will come along and maybe
they'll play it, or maybe someone And you think, actually,
(27:14):
that particular board game and all the pieces within that
board game, and the cardboard that the board game is
in case in, all of that is going to be
in a perpetual move towards this array. The cardboard's going
to break down, the pieces are going to disintegrate. And
so when we keep things in our homes that we're
not using, they're only getting worse. And so if you
(27:36):
think I don't want to make a decision on this today,
when you make a decision on in five years, it
has become the victim, or always was the victim of entropy.
And admittedly entropy is not like you click your fingers
and the thing falls apart in your hands, but it
is this constant movement towards that my sister and her
husband manage a tip or a dump in far North Queensland.
(27:58):
And I often think that while we can in our
homes is we keep things that should probably go and
be rubbish or trash. And by keeping them in our
homes that doesn't stop entropy. I think people think, oh,
if I keep it in my home, it's still good.
But as soon as I give it to the dump,
then all of a sudden it starts to become rubbish. No,
it's becoming rubbish right in front of your eyes. And
(28:20):
so you can shift your perspective of the items in
my home are only getting worse. How do I a
organize my home so that I can care for them
and treat them well? And how do I make sure
that my leather shoes don't get moldy? How do I
create my home so that it's easy to dust, it's
easy to cleep clean because you can prolong the life
of things.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
But also a lot.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Of the stuff in your home you're just never going
to use again, and it's only getting worse. And maybe
if you donate it now, there's a little bit of
life left in it. And if you wait fifteen years
till you finally downsize and then you donate it, there
may not be life left in it. So there is
hope because the decisions that you make today knowing entropy exists,
(29:02):
can actually give your items another life rather than just
waiting and then having to throw them in the bin
because they've lost function.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I just had a thought as you were talking. So
there was a couple of things.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
So first of all, I don't before I get into
my thought, I think from the way I approach it,
because again I do a lot of work with the enneagram.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
We've talked about it on our show, right, and so
we're looking at and even before the anagram, I would
talk about the three types of clutter, right, your three
main buck at your physical, emotional, calendar clutter. And when
you're we're talking about entropy, you're talking logic, right. It's
very it's a data driven that's logical. I don't even
(29:49):
know what is it like it's a law. It's a law, right,
it's a law, right, so it's fact or so it's
coming strictly. There's no emotion in what it is. And
especially the people that call us in or listen to
our show a lot or struggle because there's this huge
emotional component, yes, that they wrestle with which is fair
(30:12):
and that emotional component is either guilt or fear or nostalgia.
But it's this emotional pull that is is that is
playing into and they're creating that scenario that story of
my grandchildren are going to play with this game, or
my daughter is going to wear this my prom dress.
(30:34):
Literal conversation, I had her daughter's five with a K
and she's a friend, right, I'm not shaming her, but
I'm just like, no, I don't know about that. Is
it worth you taking up your space for the next
literal decade on the thought that you were five your
now five year old daughter might want to wear And
(30:54):
maybe the answer is yes. But for a lot of people,
your space is way more important than that. But it's
taking that mind shift of going, I hear you over here,
giving me this law, this very data driven textbook definition,
but actually being able to connect those dots and apply
(31:16):
it when I'm sitting here making my decisions not from
logic but from emotion. I think that is that bridge.
How do we get people who are struggling with the
emotional hold to make peace with and allow that logic
(31:37):
to drive their decision making.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
And I think that's the right way to word it.
So you make peace. It's not about allowing it, like
trying to squash our emotions in order that the logic
would override. And it's not about saying intuition's good. It's
actually about making peace with it. I think sometimes storytelling
can be a really important part of that and actually
taking I'm not actually that's not such. I was gonna say
I'm not fired up about math and stuff. That's not true.
(32:00):
I totally am. I'm a total note. I love it.
It does find me up. However, when you see the
practical outworkings of it, like hearing, ah, this is the
second law of thermo dynamics and datata, and then once
I actually started to think about what that looked like
in my life, what that looked like in my home,
what that looked like with my stuff, then it becomes
a little bit more real. And I think if we
(32:22):
I think it's a lot to expect someone to hear
just a law and go that's going to change my life.
But when you can actually add that to the whole picture,
so you know, it's not like you or I ever
go into a client's home and go this is the law,
this is the way to do it, this is the logic.
We come in well rounded, and we come with different
tools in our tool belt, and I think with the
(32:43):
hundreds and hundreds of episodes between our podcasts, there's such
a good blend that we actually do create this whole picture.
Because we are whole human beings, there is a part
where we do need to think about the logic side
of it. Sometimes I can be working with a sentimental
person and I present something logically and all of a
sudden they're like, yep, done, that's a decision, mart I think, WHOA,
(33:05):
it's not expected because we have complex humans that need
to have all these different things in order and at
pace to make decisions. Sometimes, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
I agree one hundred percent. And the other thing that
I was going to say is because I'm always trying
to think of like how can we and I don't
want to say it's overplayble, like how can we hack
this right? How can we easily incorporate this really complex
law and into our daily lives? And for me, the
(33:39):
way I was interpreting it in my own brain was
just making like you said, making peace that the stuff
in our homes, our material things, are transient, and that's
not a bad thing like they're here for a particular
period of time and then they no longer serve us.
Whether that means they are literally disintegrating, like the carpet
(34:01):
in the house that you bought, or it's just it
doesn't fit us, our kids outgrow it, whatever, And I
always and that's why I love the work that we
do with the enneagram, because it challenges you to work
those muscles that you don't normally see. And if you
(34:21):
are somebody that is naturally drawn to the emotional side
of things, that's the lens that you're going to make
your decisions naturally. And it isn't until you are intentional
about looking at the logical side of things and saying,
how am I going to take action on this, that
(34:42):
you get out of that state of paralysis, because it's
very easy, and as a mom of a kid who's
a big feeler and can get suck in the emotional
loop of things, when we talk about it from that
logical standpoint, and it doesn't mean that you're so detached,
but you're just approaching it from a different angle like
(35:03):
you said you did with your client that they're like,
I never thought of it, And that makes sense because
that's not how their brain works. So incorporating this law
thermodynamics in a very real and practical way can give
somebody like it's like a new lane in a highway
that opens up that wasn't there because they just never
(35:26):
they didn't know, or here's the backway to get there.
You're like, oh, I didn't even know that was an option.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
And it might even be about just noticing things. So
I think the area in our homes that we see
entropy play out the most is in our kitchens. You
and I if we do a pantry or a kitchen
deck clutter, or particularly if you do a fringe deck clutter,
you're seeing like the very very quick ways of entropy,
the floppy carrots, the multi this the flower that's been
(35:54):
there and is all gross. And so when we throw
food out, we throw food out because of entropy. And
when you pick up a packet of something and the
actual packet is not working, or the lid on a
tub has broken and the plastics become fragile, the problem
is entropy. And so even if you're not using it
as a framework in which you look and make decisions,
(36:17):
sometimes noticing it and being okay with it and realizing
this is not because I'm a bad person and I
just didn't eat the carrots quick enough and now I'm
decluttering them by throwing them out. This is just the
natural law of life. And so sometimes that just being
aware of something can make a difference to how you feel,
(36:37):
how you make purchasing choices, how you make decluttering choices.
And sometimes that's enough. It doesn't need to be like
the big thing for the declutter. But here's another tool,
here's another framework. He's another lens you can look through.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I love that because it takes away if you can
look at it, it takes away that sheam element that
a lot of people feess that guilt and sheam and
the way I'm like, okay, so where do how do
we I don't want to say do better? Right? But
what choices can we make? So maybe we're not buying
the volume because we know that the reality of it
(37:10):
is we can't consume that amount in the amount of
time when we go through. I see, how would you
apply it? Let me ask you. I'm going to actually
ask you a question. I think it's very tangible when
you look at something in a kitchen, because there's like
food that's actually getting moldy and expiring. How would you
apply it in like with clothes for example, that aren't
(37:35):
I think I'm picturing in my mind as I'm like
thinking of this example, someone's got lots of tags on
things that they haven't worn, things that just you know,
overflowing with stuff, maybe different sizes because they fluctuated their
weight and just feeling overwhelmed. What about that, say.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
In a woodrobe, I find that entropy really helps with
declutter because what you're looking to. Sometimes when we're looking
at declutting, you can look at the individual items and
you can be making decisions about all the things with
tags on. But sometimes the easiest decisions in a wardrobe
is to go what has the clear effects of entropy.
So I'm looking at the leggings that have become see
(38:18):
through the genes that had the crutches worn out of
the top that the elastic has gone on, the bra
that the underwear fell out of. Like sometimes you can
use that lens to clear out the easy decisions because
you're like, that's non recoverable, that has moved towards a
state of disorder. That bra, I'm not wearing it again, it,
you know, for whatever reason, and so I think you
(38:40):
can use it to scrape that bottom level of stuff off.
And I think then when you're looking at items that
are new, the entropy for those items is not necessarily
going to be that they're going to be worn out,
that they're going to be the elastic's going to go,
that they're going to become. See through, The entropies is
(39:00):
not because of overwearing, is it. The entropy is actually
because it's possibly sitting in a cupboard without a whole
lot of airflow, and things that sit in covers without
airflow just naturally disintegrate. It's not good for fabrics. You
might have boths. You might find that you end up
going and buying more things, and so like it actually changes.
So the way that you look at a new item
(39:20):
with entropy it might be different the way that you
look at an old item. And so you might look
at new items and think, these aren't gonna last forever.
So either I wear them now or maybe I just
donate them as somebody else wears them, because I know
that in twenty years time, these are going to end
up in landfill one way or the other, worn or unworn.
They will probably end up in landfill. So what's my choice,
(39:43):
worn or unworn? I wear them or someone else wears them.
And so that might be a way that you can
use that framework to make those decisions in a wardrobe.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, I'd love it because I just love having different
tools like and you said bad that you can apply
with somebody. And the other thing as you were talking
is I feel like this again, it's not a theory,
it's a law, but this approach and bringing this in
as part of the decision making process for somebody that
(40:14):
is more analytical, is more data driven, that's struggling because
they have rationalized it in their minds can also at
a different perspective. So it's not only for the person
that is an emotional clutterer person. It is for people
(40:35):
because we can all justify keeping things for different reasons.
And so I just I found it. And again I'm
going to encourage you guys to like listen to Amy's episode,
even though a lot of what she's saying is repetitive here,
because it was just it was so fascinating and at
the end of the day, the goal I think, and
(40:55):
I tell me of you differ, but we want you
to be able to use where and love the stuff
that is in your home.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah, and if you think about entropy when you're purchasing,
you might purchase clothes that will last longer, that are
better quality, that are materials that will last longer because
you know that they're going to wear out. You know
that they're not going to last as long. And so
if you buy a kitchen aid that is better quality,
it is going to degrade slower, and so you're over
(41:25):
time going to spend less money of it and have
less stuff in landfill. So it also can affect your
purchasing decisions, which I think is a powerful thing for
many of our clients, because you end up with if
you just buy cheap, then you have this turnover and
you often don't get rid of the old one and
you have the new one.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
It just adds up exactly. I love it. Amy. I
could talk to you all day, but I know that
you have to go to bed.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
And you need to start your day and I.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Need to s want my day. Tell our listeners where
can they find you? All over the inner webs.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
So ash of Daycluttering dot com dot ae is my website.
But if you just put in Google, the out of
day Cluttering or in chat Jpat, or in Instagram or
Facebook or podcast app the ast of decluttering. I am confident.
But if that's what you pop in, you will find me.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yes, I love it. I love it. Thank you so much,
my friend for coming on the show. It's always a
pleasure to chat with you. And I want to see
pictures of your renovation.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I'm going to send you some as soon as we
get office call. I'm going to send you some of
my before and afters.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, all right, and you guys, if you are new
to our show, welcome, so happy that you're here. Please
click the follow button or subscribe wherever you're watching listening.
As Amy said, between the two of us, we've got
hundreds and hundreds of podcasts episodes. So if there's a
particular topic that you are interested in looking for, you
could put into our search bar or reach out to
(42:51):
us and we can direct you to you know what
it is. If you're struggling with a particular area, or
you want to learn more about decluttering with eighty or
the Enneagram or building an organizing business, I am here
for it. So I'm glad you're here, and we're here
every week and we'll be back again next week with
another episode. Until then, Laurie palou He's out. Thanks for
(43:14):
tuning in. If you'd liked this episode, please spread the
love and share it with your friends. And if this
is your first time joining us, make sure to click
the subscribe button wherever you are listening so you never
miss an episode. And while you're there, please leave us
a review so other people know that our show is
worth to listen. You can also find us on YouTube
and Instagram at This Organized Life Podcast, and if you'd
(43:35):
like to connect with us, you can head on over
to our website at simply the letter B like boyorganized
dot com, which is filled with tons of resources, including
free downloads, checklists, links to our amazing organizing partners, and
all of our digital offerings. And I'll see you next
week for another episode of This Organized Life
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